The APZ Cloud Project!!!!

[BlitzNCS]

...That's what i've been doing. but surely lots of 512x512 textures needed for a rather complicated cloud equate to even over 4000x4000. so, the more textures you need, the more quality must be lost? that wouldnt look as good as your old cloud was ingame. surely you must have had yours bigger than 512x512?

[apz freak]

Well kinda, the more textures you need the less quality. Pretty much. That's the rules for working in low poly with strict texture limits. Full motion rendering like Advent Children doesn't really need limits like that. My map was 512 and it DOES look that good in game because it's all the information you need.

The one you see on the first post of the old "Cloud Replacement Model" thread uses only ONE 512x512 square. It can be done!

Alright I'm gonna be a bit of a tease, so forgive me!



I promised myself I wouldn't directly release the texture, and I didn't. But I hope this helps. It's scaled down to 50% of it's total size, but see! It all fits into that 512x512 square, and that's the same EXACT texture you see on the "Cloud Replacement Model" thread. Obviously this is just ripped out of kingdom hearts and modified. So it isn't entirely my creation. But the new Cloud that I'm texturing is!

Try this, take all of the Kingdom Hearts Cloud textures (there's 15 of them and they're all 128x128) and put them all in a 512x512 square. Do that math, a 512x512 can fit 16 of the 128x128's in it. What I did was use the kingdom hearts textures as a learning tool. Learning from finished work!

[Timu Sumisu]

is it necessary to use up a quarter for the face?

[apz freak]

No it isn't, I just wanted to make sure it looked right, and hell, I had a whole quarter of the texture of empty space, I figured I'd fill it somehow! And considering the fact that I made the eyes on a separate model with separate textures (I'll get to that later, long story about putting it in the game) but considering that, let's just say there was no benefit to making it that big. And not really too much benefit for making anything else bigger, it all looks just fine!

edit: But here's my new progress report.



Boy are wrinkles harder to draw than I thought it would be. Of course then again, I've never drawn wrinkles that extensively that wraps around a model before. First time for everything!

[Timu Sumisu]

Most impressive. folds are great, n looks really good all around. This is depressing my attempt. How are you going about making yer textures?

 As to being a lil more colaborative are you into the great scheme of replacing masses of models in the game? just other characters/nething. For speeding things up, I think i model a bit faster than you, would you be interested in texturing my models? or would you rather work all on your own steam. It just seems a bit pointless for us all to be shooting out the same thing with slight variations. From what i've seen yer the strongest one around here via texturing (n damn good at that). Anyhow get back to me, pm er respond whatvr suits you. If yer interest is just in a cloud replacement thats fair, I dont wanna push you fer nething, just thought I put the option there.

[apz freak]

Well thanks for the offer, but I'm too busy a person to commit to such a thing. (I gotta stop starting projects, jeez I have a ton of them) I work full-time and go to college full-time, I'm the eldest of 9, I have a fiance (nuff said there  ) Actually all told the amount of time I spent on this new cloud is probably only a few hours, most of the time on the textures. I only get a half an hour here or there, I never get the chance to work for more than that (except tonight, thankfully) I also write/play/record/engineer music, I play guitar and sing and I'm pretty handy with midi.

You can check out my music if you like: http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/194793

Thanks but I'm sure you'll do fine on your own. I seek to encourage and inspire and it seems I'm doing that! I'm always happy to see that people are learning things, and if I'm a part of that, even better! Most of what I learned is by doing it myself without anyone's help (as far as modeling goes) Texturing/skinning and even the use of photoshop I taught myself AFTER I graduated from highschool. Sorry if I was a douchebag to anyone, I don't mean to be, it's just that I'm an extremely busy guy and this project's probably one of the least important things I should spend my focus on. But I'm an artist, my focus can take hold on not let go sometimes. Both bad and good

Of course I realize that people will use my material to generate version of their own and call it theirs. That's lame, but there's really nothing I can do about it. I choose not to really care about that.

One of the reasons I use to keep my interest in things is that I want to see something. And no one else has made it yet, I just have to make it myself! My only problem is that I have insanely high standards, and strong opinions about what I like and dislike.

But your Cloud will be yours with your own stamp of approval. I know texturing looks daunting right now. But trust me, it's not as bad as it looks, it's just time consuming! Take it one part at a time. Always compare the work on the model back and forth.


edit: After maybe ...? 20 minutes of work?

[Timu Sumisu]

absolutely beast my man. What poly count are you running at? current and final goal?

[BlitzNCS]

Wow, dude, you seem to be using almost EXACTLY the same textures as me O.o

...perhaps, then, yours are just applied more cleverly/artisticly?

...plus the fact that applying textures that weren't made specifically for a particular model is hell. lol.

anyway, this is looking Brilliant, keep at it, Apz

[apz freak]

Currently at 2,714 tri polys total. I don't really have a specific goal in mind, I'm just being as frugal as possible and adding more detail on what's more important to me. For example, it's unnecessary to have the harness a separate model, it could just as well have been a texture, that's what I did on the "Cloud Replacement" model. But it makes me happy to see that detail. If I had the need, I could compress him way down. But there isn't!

I still haven't finished the face (I did, but that file got corrupted) I haven't done the hair or the hands. I wager I'll use 240 on the bolts on the wrist things, hands somewhere between 200~300, and the final head somewhere between 500~600... Ish, I'm not really sure yet!

So I'm estimating the final version will be about 3,600~4,000. Which isn't really all that bad! More than I need, absolutely, but enough to make me happy! It's weird, because I want to make it as streamlined as possible, but I want detail. So, there ya go!

*The "Cloud Replacement" KH rip-off I did was 3,446 tri polys total. I think I'm hitting close to my mark of making my own version of this model with slightly more detail in some places and less detail in others. *My KH rip-off Sephiroth was 4,057 polys (All that damned hair!)

The original KH Cloud is 3,150, hope that gives some bearings. My model's more detailed in places to satisfy my obsessive needs. And it all runs in the game fine anyways   So why not!


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And we know because of Reunion (The guy who made PC Creator) That FFVIIPC can handle 24,978 polygons! http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=5828.msg74935#msg74935

So I think we're not doing that bad then!


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Oh and NeoCloudstrife...

I'm using the same textures because I'm using the same source! The texture files from KH are 128x128 and all fit nicely in a 512x512 square! That's what I meant when I told you they don't need to be any bigger! My textures aren't any more cleverly applied than the originals made for the KH Cloud, I just basically took their work and painted my own changes on top, that's it really! Nothing drastic.

The hard part is skinning, making sure the uv's of the model are unwrapped and flattened out correctly. Use a checker board texture to check it's correctness, if the squares are still square on the model, you succeeded! But drawing the textures probably takes the most time for me. I got the modeling down, I'm experienced at skinning now.

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edit: After a few more stolen minutes...

[Timu Sumisu]

awesomesauce, but you gotta scale down vertically from the belt up. remmber the soldier emblem covers most of the abs.

[BlitzNCS]

Hey, i just had a thought. could you release two seperate versions of this when its done? one with this classic style, and one crisis core style, as in, just a simple recoulour to fit the new first class style? that would be REALLY great

[Timu Sumisu]

that would also highly modify the hair... just lettin ye know

[apz freak]

Hey, i just had a thought. could you release two seperate versions of this when its done? one with this classic style, and one crisis core style, as in, just a simple recoulour to fit the new first class style? that would be REALLY great

Actually, you're only saying what I was gonna do! Yes, that's something I really want to do! That's something i planned on doing, infact: I planned on nearly every incarnation of Cloud: Classic Coud, ?New Original Cloud?, Dissidia Cloud, AC Cloud, And maybe if it isn't redundant enough, My own KH Cloud.

Now I don't know if I'll make all of them, but it's nice to have something to think about. But most definatly This one and Classic Cloud, that's a promise!

awesomesauce, but you gotta scale down vertically from the belt up. remmber the soldier emblem covers most of the abs.

Well you're right, that was one of those things I did in the file that got corrupted and I never really got around to fixing it again. The proportions I changed him to are the one's found in this picture:



But it's well known that Cloud proportion are never ever consistent. I mean look!



But I think we can both agree that the Crisis Core version is the most anatomically correct. I just chose not to bother with it again until I'm almost done. The proportions from this Cloud that I'm making were just a hasty attempt at Trying to match the KH Cloud.



But noboady seems to mind. I'm happy someone has an opinion about it. Cloud proportions are one of those things that gets to me because it's never consistent. But Crisis Core's the best version of that in my opinion.

Of course, mine's more anime like. But that's intentional

[Timu Sumisu]

hmm hmm. the shape of the soldier belt i always figured fit the abdominal muscles (though newer vewsion seems to put it all over. It seems practical to match it there like in CC. for the old looking belt - the reason they put it lower now is so cloud doesnt look like a fool with pants halfway up his chest.

[apz freak]

Exactly!

All fixed.

[BlitzNCS]

when you're done with the arms, could ya show us it with the KH clouds head just so we can see it how it might look when its done?
*still drooling*

[Timu Sumisu]

that pic shows us another thing that could be improved for exactness... the shape of the pauldron is that of kh1. it cuts off while the original goes the whole way around at the base.. i imagine you'll know what i'm talking about. I did the same mistake lol. Also for the texture of the shirt, i suggest making them a bit tighter, the belts a might darker.

[apz freak]

Wow, you're really into my project! Don't get me wrong I find it very pleasing to know that you care how this will come out! And For that I thank you, all of you, thanks guys!

timu sumisu, you're absolutely right about the shoulder armor even if I was alittle too proud to admit it at first. The problem's in the texture really not the model, now that I look at it with the texture turned off. But I'm leaving the shirt texture the way it is, it reads better from a distance and too sharp a contrast would draw more attention to the shirts ribbing than the harness. It fits my aesthetic!

[Timu Sumisu]

hmk, I wasnt all that clear with my critique, so hopefully were on the same page - send a pic of what ye do fer modifying it

[apz freak]

We're on the same page, I know what you meant. It was easily fixed using the smudge tool, too easy. The problem with low poly is that it's all optical illusion that anything appears round or curved. Excuse my inner monologue style of typing!

[One-Winged Angel]

May I just say, this is looking so good! Your modeling is so good!

[Timu Sumisu]

its better, but a number of critiques

1. the shoulder, has the thingy with the dots around it. Belowo the rightmost dot is a curve in the pauldron. that should be flush with the rest of the base, if you look at the picture you posted a few posts ago ( i think its from the ff7 10th anniversary set) you'll see the base is flat, at a front view, so its a matter of lowering the point, and raising the curve that is to the right of it.

2. the fingers of the gloves need to be significantly darker... more like the belts (the lower double belts), and the studs on the hands should be a bit smaller.  (they currently dominate the hands instead of adding detail... maybe 10-20% smaller.

3. the metal bangles look kinda plasticy right now... i suggest giving them a slightly more brushed metal look, or make them brighter with more drastic highlights.

Also for the piece on his left wrist, wern't you big on having both parts the same size? the one closer to the wrist is quite smaller I see.

Jus my 2 gil.

[apz freak]

Well certainly thanks for your input. But if I focus too much and tightening it right now, I'll lose track of getting the whole things laid out first!

I'll take all this in, this is rare that someone else rivals my obsessive need for accuracy. (That's a compliment  )


Honestly I never thought too much about the fingers in the gloves, but this is what made my decision on several things.



Yeah for the forearm thing, I was looking for the right rusty shiny metal reference picture to use on top of that base, that's how the shoulder armor looked at first. I actually didn't mean this photo to be the presentation of the hands, but what the hell. I don't usually have someone who give two flying gil about what I do, it's a nice change from my Doom 3 editing days when discussions like these were more like battles or downright insults than the constructive criticism you're providing me.

Yeah the dots I made were in reference to the original designs, I forgot to compare that to the new version Although, you haven't noticed that I used the wrong design for the harness straps, at least the one that holds the pauldron. Got you there! I've been dragging my knees to correct that, it won't take that long, but life's been so busy lately, the only real work I've done on this in about a week is communicating on this board!

Whatever, work in progress. Things will be pretty different all over Cloud in my next progress report (and even right now) but I'll save all that for after I model the face and hair and lay out the final texture coordinates. I need to finish that first!


Until next time...

[Timu Sumisu]

Between having modeled cloud about 4 times, cosplayed and plenty of doodles, ye get to nkwo the outfit pretty well. I know the AC one a bit better, however as to his harness. I'm not sure which wrong design yer refering to~ dunno if u mean like the roundness of the bigger part, or how its shaped in the back connecting to the single strap er wha, but i'll be eager to hear what you have to say. Those gloves in that pic from the CC ending are wierd... looks like metal plates for each finger joint... not very practical, but alas.

I'd give a might more t han 2 gil if i had friend! Ah! and I fergot one piece of advice... do every character :3!

[apz freak]

But if you are gonna release this model as a cloud model for the game, there will be some problems.... :mrgreen

Do tell, if you mean scale issues, that's easily fixed (or rather broken, how ever you see it)

I'm cosplaying Zack this next February, although according to these fine print details I'm technically Cloud's height and build (Though not as strong)  but who cares!

I'm just as silly! 

edit: Hey timu sumisu, this is what I meant about the straps. And yes, I agree, those new metal ringlets on the gloves are retarded, but whatever! it looks cool!



My big WHOOPS! Note the position of the studs on the offending straps too. Wow, didn't think I'd make a mistake that glaring! (to those of us who notice such things)

edit again, a bit later:



The only part left is the head! Now that I picked a skin tone I really like, making the texture was a snap! I used a sample from the Final Battle Cloud in the game to get the right skin tone (both light and dark), and then I just turned the saturation down a tad and viola! It fits in the model just fine! Of course like everything though at this point, I'm still refining details colors and brightness across the whole texture map, the final will be damn near perfect!