Author Topic: [FF9]2016 release  (Read 109775 times)

Fraggoso

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #125 on: 2017-03-08 21:15:48 »
That sounds more of an issue. :/
How the hell didn't the team saw that (heard that ^^) the sound effects are off.
If they're not processed the same way, wouldn't the best way to let them sound the same without any magic by the soundchip?
I can't recall that FFVII and/or VIII hat this Problem.

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #126 on: 2017-03-08 21:28:04 »
Fraggoso

If this is the case, I don't find it surprising that FF7/8 had no sound issue while FF9 has. When FF7/8 ports were made, the actual square developer team took some part in it. Steam version is a port of these old PC ports. I don't think anyone of them worked on FF9 port though. Many probably don't work for square at all anymore...

Edit: in fact FF9 was made by Square USA, which was dissolved at some point (or something else happened I forgot, but it is long gone).
Edit2: I have not played FF7/8 on PC yet, haha. Maybe when I'll finish backgrounds for FF9 i'll try FF8 PC...
« Last Edit: 2017-03-08 21:34:11 by Meru »

the_randomizer85

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #127 on: 2017-03-08 23:36:31 »
So all the spells are borked, as I suspected, none of them sounded right to me at all. That's just asinine.

FFVII, VIII and X all had correct sound effects emulated.

dclem

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #128 on: 2017-03-09 02:14:38 »
The sounds effects will be fixed as soon as I find a solution to the random crashes that currently occur when any sfxs is replaced.
I'm trying to see if there's a way, or could be a way to reverse the engine's sound system, so it can accept easier formats - minus the akb header and length obligation altogether.

Yes, I know the dreaded horrid Sandstorm sfxs, I replaced it and it works well, but the problem is, the game crashes right after.

2 scenarios went down after replacing that sfx.

1. After the battle ended, all sfxs stopped playing and then the game crashed.

2. After the battle ends, and soon as another sfx is called to play, it doesn't, and then game crashes.

Random crashes being more likely because the game can't fully handle the new sfxs that's been imported. My best guess at this point.

Bottom line, this sound engine needs some tweaking to become more simpler, or else, you'd be playing a game with a whole lot of bugs and random crashes, ruining your gameplay, you don't want that, do you? I know I can stand it.

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #129 on: 2017-03-09 09:30:59 »
The sounds effects will be fixed as soon as I find a solution to the random crashes that currently occur when any sfxs is replaced.
I'm trying to see if there's a way, or could be a way to reverse the engine's sound system, so it can accept easier formats - minus the akb header and length obligation altogether.
Why length is an issue? Just make a replacement file of the same length?

If AKB is a culprit why you want to get rid of it? It is only 304 bytes long. Only 22 bytes of them are different between files. Is it so hard to find out the meaning these?
« Last Edit: 2017-03-09 09:32:50 by Meru »

Fraggoso

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #130 on: 2017-03-09 09:35:30 »
The "problem" as I see and heard is that some sound effects are split into different files instead of being one as it should be.
And not everyone is as technical as you, Meru. Heck I don't even know what that header means. *lol*

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #131 on: 2017-03-09 09:39:48 »
The "problem" as I see and heard is that some sound effects are split into different files instead of being one as it should be.
Well even if they are split or joined, I don't see why the replacement files can't be split or joined too.
Edit: just needs someone skilled with Audition or Audacity :D

And not everyone is as technical as you, Meru. Heck I don't even know what that header means. *lol*
To me this sounds like you're saying "Sharon does not know what he is doing". But I assume this is not what you meant to say :D
« Last Edit: 2017-03-09 09:41:30 by Meru »

Fraggoso

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #132 on: 2017-03-09 09:44:20 »
I seriously need to finish the damn Background mod so I can poke a bit in the dark.
I didn't say that he's not knowing what he's doing. Albeit I say that he maybe need a little push in the right directions as he has (to my knowledge) no background in modding sound files whatsoever and you seem pretty smart. ^^

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #133 on: 2017-03-09 09:52:23 »
I seriously need to finish the damn Background mod so I can poke a bit in the dark.
IKR. I already want to poke something else, but still long way to go with backgrounds too :D

I didn't say that he's not knowing what he's doing. Albeit I say that he maybe need a little push in the right directions as he has (to my knowledge) no background in modding sound files whatsoever and you seem pretty smart. ^^
Well, figuring out what some values in the header are is a very basic thing in hacking some uncommon file format. Regardless of what you're trying to do. Be it audio, or whatever else. If that is not possible, I would leave the project for someone else to do.
« Last Edit: 2017-03-09 10:21:00 by Meru »

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #134 on: 2017-03-09 10:22:48 »
BTW I took for granted that file LENGTH is an issue. But does that really so?

Making file longer with the same or higher bitrate makes file SIZE bigger. Which could result in all the files in the archive being broken after the point of insertion., which may lead to crashes and all sorts of nasty things. If SIZE is a real issue, then you may need some much more serious engine modifications than just an AKB header. Edit: of course making sure it is never bigger than original is an option too. Assuming proper splitting/joining will be done, neither SIZE nor LENGTH issue should matter. Unless you want to increase the bitrate. But there is no real need in doing so, ~128kbps is more than enough.
« Last Edit: 2017-03-09 11:21:53 by Meru »

dclem

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #135 on: 2017-03-09 22:12:39 »
So using this "Foobar2000" I got to see more details of the steam sfxs files format:

And everything seems the same expect for the muthafucking bit rate.
The bit rate varies throughout each sfx.

Data that is the same:

Sample Rate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 1
Codec: Vorbis
Encoding: lossy
Tool: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20090709

Other-
<BITRATE_NOMINAL>: 86

the_randomizer85

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #136 on: 2017-03-09 22:18:32 »
So using this "Foobar2000" I got to see more details of the steam sfxs files format:

And everything seems the same expect for the muthaferning bit rate.
The bit rate varies throughout each sfx.

Data that is the same:

Sample Rate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 1
Codec: Vorbis
Encoding: lossy
Tool: Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20090709

Other-
<BITRATE_NOMINAL>: 86

Ugh, maybe I shouldn't have suggested Foobar2000, it only made things worse. Bugger >.>

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #137 on: 2017-03-10 09:01:38 »
dclem

There is no unknown info about audio in FFIX PC (except maybe values in AKB header, but they are very few and not necessarily all of them are relevant).
What are you trying to say? You said you already replaced sandstorm effect and it works. And now you are saying you saw the details of the format. To replace the effect you should have know that info already.

Except for the AKB header, the format is very common that people use every day and hundreads or thousands of the games use to store audio. Some files have different bitrate. There are stereo and mono files 128 and 86 kbps respectively. I have not noticed other variants. But it does not matter really.
« Last Edit: 2017-03-10 09:57:26 by Meru »

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #138 on: 2017-03-10 11:00:26 »
Audio LENGTH does not matter (edit: bitrate too, as long as you are within the size limits). I just replaced an effect with duration of 11760 samples with random tone of 20000 samples and there are no issues. There have to be a size value in the AKB header.

I used this one. Original was 267ms
Code: [Select]
Format                                   : Vorbis
Format settings, Floor                   : 1
Duration                                 : 454 ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 40.0 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 kHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 2.22 KiB (41%)
Writing library                          : aoTuV 20110424 (UTC 2011-04-24)
« Last Edit: 2017-03-10 11:10:43 by Meru »

Fraggoso

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #139 on: 2017-03-10 11:12:18 »
Meru thank you so much, I think this will help!
As long as the random crashes are minimized or entirely gone this will make fun (I think *lol*).

Edit: That damn phone is auto correcting your name every time.
My apologize!
« Last Edit: 2017-03-10 14:02:41 by Fraggoso »

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #140 on: 2017-03-10 11:50:09 »
Fixing size value in header works wonderfully too. And it is super obvious which value is that. As I said if you don't know what are you doing, better leave it to someone else (or at least keep it out of this thread)
« Last Edit: 2017-03-10 11:52:08 by Meru »

dclem

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #141 on: 2017-03-10 22:15:56 »
How can audio length not matter, yet size does?
I've replaced sounds that were smaller than the original, and yet two things will happen:
1. It still won't play in game.
2. It plays in game, but random crashes will occur. --causing other sfxs to not play resulting in crash.

the size of the akb header is no bigger than 304 bytes.
It would be easier to reverse the engine's sound system and remove this "size, akb header" requirement.

and btw, get off that BS would you.

Fraggoso

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #142 on: 2017-03-11 05:44:27 »
You don't have a clue about the unity container and containers as a whole so you?
Some games needs a 1:1 match so everything runs as intended and it doesn't seem to be the case as meru mentioned.

dclem

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #143 on: 2017-03-11 06:28:52 »
Actually I do, is a lightweight, extensible dependency injection container It facilitates building loosely coupled applications and provides developers with the following advantages: Simplified object creation, especially for hierarchical object structures and dependencies.

So if FFIX sound effects don't need a 1:1 match what is meru tryin' to say?!

Fraggoso

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #144 on: 2017-03-11 06:38:39 »
Actually I do, is a lightweight, extensible dependency injection container It facilitates building loosely coupled applications and provides developers with the following advantages: Simplified object creation, especially for hierarchical object structures and dependencies.

So if FFIX sound effects don't need a 1:1 match what is meru tryin' to say?!

Really...?
https://msdn.microsoft.com/de-de/library/dd203101.aspx

Meru said everything you need! >.<

the_randomizer85

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #145 on: 2017-03-11 06:48:49 »
Do you two really need to be debating over this?

dclem

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #146 on: 2017-03-11 07:05:08 »
Okay, you got me, I summarized that description

okay, so here:

this is the "sfx" from the original steam game:

se000002.akb.txt:

Code: [Select]
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And here's my replacement sfx:

Code: [Select]
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t ð^ÈÝ|/wº nàÀ*   ÀNÓ¤ÏΟ¯Êéòëw/GgÃ`§ibX?o²¬óZs & XP ,

Now tell me, what's the difference between these two that'll cause for these "random crashes" and or not playing in game?

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #147 on: 2017-03-11 09:50:51 »
How can audio length not matter, yet size does?
I don't understand the question. The two are totally unrelated things. And I already said why it matters.

1. It still won't play in game.
2. It plays in game, but random crashes will occur. --causing other sfxs to not play resulting in crash.
I dunno. Exact same symptoms commonly occur if you just deleted the old bytes and pasted new bytes. Also could be that audio stream can not be decoded by the engine.
So if FFIX sound effects don't need a 1:1 match what is meru tryin' to say?!
Not at all. I played FFIX long ago and already forgot how things sound. So I only discovered that magic sounds differently after youtube videos were posted in this thread. If the difference comes from audio files then I find it reasonable to try to replace them (But personally I am fine with sound as is).

Okay, you got me, I summarized that description
These code sections are useless. That's not a brightest idea to post bytes as text. But as I said above you must modify AKB header to do a correct replacement and it is very obvious how it must be changed (it must be done for every file). If you feel like modifying the engine to remove the header, please feel free to do so. No one is going to do it for you cause it is way harder than changing the headers (and have a high chance of making this mod incompatible with other mods). If you are interested in what my audio stream looks like, I provided that info already. But I think that any vorbis stream with similar characteristics will work.

And what I say is not BS. You started the project and now you want someone else to do it for you. There is nothing wrong in admitting that it turned out to be not something you can handle, but pretending that you know what are you doing and posting various info that clearly shows you don't is BS. You are writing a poem without knowing the words.

 - You don't know the difference between length and size of an encoded stream. Most likely you use some newbie-oriented audio encoding solution that does not distinguish between the two.
 - You are deleting and pasting, replacing bytes without taking necessary precautions or making modifications and ask why it does not work.
 - You ask questions that already have an answer.
 - You post bytes as text to demonstrate something.

Excuse me, but this level of knowledge is below "newbie".
« Last Edit: 2017-03-11 13:37:00 by Meru »

dclem

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #148 on: 2017-03-11 14:01:05 »
okay, you know what, shut yo  f*ckin' ass up right now. This f*cker on my kill list now.
This international  f*cker want's the audio to remain the same, then so be it. Enjoy the disgusting sandstorm sfx and dwell you're f*cking backgrounds mod.
I'm NOT the one!
« Last Edit: 2017-03-11 14:06:47 by dclem »

Meru

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Re: [FF9]2016 release
« Reply #149 on: 2017-03-11 14:29:58 »
okay, you know what, shut yo  f*ckin' ass up right now. This f*cker on my kill list now.
This international  f*cker want's the audio to remain the same, then so be it. Enjoy the disgusting sandstorm sfx and dwell you're f*cking backgrounds mod.
I'm NOT the one!

I do not care if there will be such mod or no. But you are not asking for help, you are asking to teach you from scratch. If someone will do all the hard work for you, it will no longer be your project.

Also I tried to be as polite as I could an even provided some information even though I saw you through from the start. So no need to call me a "strawberry" :D