Author Topic: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists  (Read 16984 times)

Decayrate

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Re: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists
« Reply #25 on: 2007-04-28 19:59:48 »
Djè: he/she can't, thats becouse there is no god. Religion is just a way of living and a comfort.
When I'm 90 year's old and have done my deeds, and take a good look at some wet night's, a week in jail. And have a luagh, I can welcome Mr.D3ath :D

We can't 100% know that there's No God, but I will not let a God chose my way of a living.

Hyunckel

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Re: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists
« Reply #26 on: 2007-04-28 20:48:34 »
We can't 100% know that there's No God, but I will not let a God chose my way of a living.

Humpf, someone who's got a reason . Well said my friend  :-D

ChaosControl

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Re: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists
« Reply #27 on: 2007-04-29 01:20:11 »
Isn't god just something we mention when we don't understand something? Until we find out how it works offcourse then we call it sience, like tsunamis, people thought it was gods rage years ago..

Hyunckel

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Re: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists
« Reply #28 on: 2007-04-29 02:13:22 »
Isn't god just something we mention when we don't understand something? Until we find out how it works offcourse then we call it sience, like tsunamis, people thought it was gods rage years ago..


God is mentioned in every little religions ... The olders the betters lol. Nowadays people tend not to believe it anymore, like santa clauss hopefully.

Jari

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Re: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists
« Reply #29 on: 2007-04-29 16:26:43 »
This is not related the original topic in any way, I'm just making something clear.

Oh, I'm profane? Isn't it a democracy we live in ? Can't I say anything I want to , believe or not?

While I do not know if Djé was referring particularly to the forums, or something else, I have to emphasize one thing; the forums are not a democracy and freedom of speech does not exist here either.

This is not aimed towards anyone in this discussion, but just in general. You are allowed to talk about lots of stuff, but in the end, if there's a disagreement between you and the powers that be, do not bother quoting laws about freedom of speech. It does not apply here, and it does not apply in any other website / forum / whatever either. All these things are comparable to someone's house; the host has every right to throw you out, if he should choose to do so. Without a particular reason, even.

This is something I felt should be stressed as the new rules are still under construction (I will certainly suggest that this will be spelled out in them) and I believe that the existing ones do not mention it.

stormmedia

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Re: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists
« Reply #30 on: 2007-04-29 17:34:40 »
Yeah and anyway what is the point of arguing about if there is a god or not.  Is anyone here really think that they will make someone's opinion about this matter to change in a forum anyway.

Okay back on topic.  "naturally, the way God intended",  This situation is it's somehow ironic.  If "god", "fate", or anything you want to call it, wanted to keep this child alive, it wouldn't have gave this child this mortal disease.  Personally, I don't know how I would react if someone I care about was it this situation, would I pull the plug or not.  But this is for sure that I couldn't bear long to see someone I care about suffer, even if it means that the only cure to this suffering is death.   Anyway, even if I would believe in god, my guess is that if it is suppose to be a fair and good god, it wouldn't want this child to suffer like this.

DarthMarasmus

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Re: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists
« Reply #31 on: 2007-05-07 06:06:05 »
I wish to begin by saying that this is certainly not a situation I would ever wish to be in.  However, if I were faced with this situation or one similar to it in which one of my loved ones were lying in a hospital bed with a machine breathing for them with no hope of improvement, I would pull the plug.  Also, if I were ever the one lying in that bed in a persistent vegetative state or in a state of constant, irrelievable pain like this little boy, I'd want someone to pull the plug.  The real shocker here is that for all intents and purposes, I am considered ultra-right wing (Reformed Presbyterian) with the possible exception of my views on situations such as this.  My thoughts in this sort of situation are a bit more pragmatic and utilitarian than most other Christians.

1)  The child is in pain.  Keeping him on the respirator so that he remains alive only prolongs that pain.  It is our duty as good and moral people to avoid inflicting undue pain on others.  Now, one of 2 things happen in this situation, depending on your worldview:  A)  If there is no God and no afterlife, then when the child dies he simply ceases to exist, thus ending his pain and anything else that he feels.  B) (My particular worldview)  If the child was baptized into the Covenant (because his parents "vouched" for him, it's sort of complicated to explain it), then his soul is given a heavenly body with the rest of the saints.  On the other hand, if he is not the child of believers, then we get into a grey area (there is much debate within the church about whether young children who have not had the opportunity for salvation are bound for heaven or hell, there is simply little evidence in the Bible for either one).

2)  There are others who need that bed worse.  I realize that it sounds cruel, but let's assume for a minute that this hospital is filled to capacity.  Somebody else can't get that bed until he dies or gets better (which in the case of an incurable degenerative disease that has progressed that far, it's not going to happen).  If there is someone whose life can be saved if they get that bed within the next 24 hours, then the plug should be pulled immediately. 

3)  As for why a good God would allow these sorts of things to happen, my only answer is that God knows His plan and I don't.  That is the simplest way I can put it, and I'll admit that it sounds like a total cop out.  I suppose that is where faith comes in, even though that is also a cliche, Sunday school answer. 

stormmedia

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Re: Fight over baby's life support divides ethicists
« Reply #32 on: 2007-05-08 16:28:46 »
3)  As for why a good God would allow these sorts of things to happen, my only answer is that God knows His plan and I don't.  That is the simplest way I can put it, and I'll admit that it sounds like a total cop out.  I suppose that is where faith comes in, even though that is also a cliche, Sunday school answer. 

Well, what I meant by that was that god wouldn't want us to keep this child alive just to prolong his pain.