Author Topic: A Different FF7 story view...or the same one..(spoilers) (Read 32732 times)

Rubicant · « **Reply #25 on:** 2003-01-24 02:56:00 »

Ok, ok. It was a little gross.

I'm sure someone found it funny..

Giffen1 · « **Reply #26 on:** 2003-01-24 04:16:41 »

I'd had found it more believable if say Sephiroth WAS the son of one Vince and Lucre...then altered to suit Hojo's needs for an experiment.

U know wut? I DO remember reading about that particular issue...i just don't remember where.....(c'mon 4 years is a long time :z )

Rubicant · « **Reply #27 on:** 2003-01-24 05:17:43 »

Really..why? Vincent never got a chance to even prove his love for Lucrecia. She was already with Hojo, so that's why she didn't want him. Vincent tried to prevent Hojo from submitting her to the Jenova project, and was killed for it. "In the name of science" as they would call it.

There might be another view to it. Vincent somehow is the father of Lucrecia's baby, and tries to protect his son by refusing to let Lucrecia participate in the experiment. However, there is absolutely no evidence of that even being true. I do believe that Lucrecia even says something to the effect that she was "naive back then", but I can't remember.

And since at least SOMEONE, Hojo, admits to being Sephiroth's father, I'll have to stick with that. Lucrecia even says that she was in a relationship with him. It's all there. Sure, you can write all the fan-fiction about Vincent being the father, but that idea doesn't go along with what was explained in FF7.

Sir Canealot · « **Reply #28 on:** 2003-01-31 11:46:45 »

Hmm. When discussing FFVII theres a few ways of looking at it:

100% gaurentied facts
Slightly hinted facts
And therory

Theres very little in FFVII thats right 100%, even some of the stuff that is, is controdicted when you pull up the surface of the carpit... but since the game TELL's us Hojo is Sephiroths father I'm assumeing it to be true. However, did they say they ever actually had sex? I'm sure I remember something about that but its been ages.

One thing I keep meaning to do is start FFVII again (I was working though the DRY Psx Usa FFVII a while ago) and note down anything that dosent make sense. I noticed a lot of stuff getting out of Midgar and in Clouds past that was a bit "huh". Could be intresting if me and a few others were to do that...

Contra · « **Reply #29 on:** 2003-03-09 17:17:55 »

Another thing that needs to be touched on here, while it isn't explained well in the amercan version, in the Japanese, it is clearly explained that the Sephiroth you've seen before the North Crater is a "Psychic Shadow," A projection of Sephiroth's self from his center of power into the rest of the world... I beleive completely that 5 years ago, he was killed, but his will was too strong to submit to the lifestream, so he just flowed through it to the northern crater and Re-coalesced himself... I am also firmly under the beleif that Sephiroth had no control of his actions, he was just a tool for Jenova. So, once Sephiiroth had collected enough energy from the lifestream to form his shadows, Jenova had him send one to retreive her from the Shinra building. And for imprisoning her, and draining the amount of energy they were getting, Jenova had Sephiroth kill Shinra. I beleive that Sephiroth was a much, no MORE of a puppet as Cloud. And I highly doubt that at the end of the game Jenova has been destroyed, in fact, that's the only way I see a sequel working... Actually, I've layed out an entire sequel... in my head.... I need to type it up and see what people think. On another note... If the guy in the pipe was Zack, wouldn't Aeris recognise him? I mean, even with a haircut, he's still her long-lost love...

Well, that's my 2 cents. For now.

~Contra~

Lieron · « **Reply #30 on:** 2003-03-09 20:01:53 »

he must've dyed his hair too lol

Nori · « **Reply #31 on:** 2003-03-09 20:35:19 »

Eeeh, I don't remember that... just two weapons were new to me!
A`re maybe only Ruby Red was new to me >.,<

Contra · « **Reply #32 on:** 2003-03-09 20:40:00 »

Okay.. I better clear this up, before I get in trouble.. I didn't finish a thought there... -I- haven't played the Japanese version.. my Japanese is basica and atrocious... I know people who have, both IRL and online, and they have told me that that was explained... I could be wrong.. If I am, then I still think that's right, it's just a theory. It seems to make sence to me. I've just heard that the Japanese storyline in general is much more coherent than the english one... *shrugs* So... I guess you can say that is hearsay, and not submit it to the court, if you so desire... I'm just helping pwople think.

~Contra~

Rubicant · « **Reply #33 on:** 2003-03-10 04:15:13 »

I really doubt that the guy in the tunnel was Zack..

It's just a personal opinion. Aeris would not have been able to recognize him anyways, because it had been about 5 years since she had heard from him. So, it all boils down to that we probably will never know who any of the clones seen in the game were, so I say we just stop thinking about it.

dgp9999 · « **Reply #34 on:** 2003-03-17 11:58:07 »

I just had an idea: How old are Vincent, Lucrecia, Hojo, and Sephiroth? Sephiroth was born of Lucrecia and Hojo, yeah? Vincent was with Lucrecia before she done the experiment with Hojo. How old does Sephiroth look to you? Late twenties? What did Vincent sleep in, a cryogenic freezer? Just a quick thought, correct me if I'm wrong.

-Dan

Contra · « **Reply #35 on:** 2003-03-22 19:08:39 »

Okay... I guess this is all just speculation, but I always thought Sephiroth was treated to some sort of growth acceleration... That's just me though.

Vincent is kinda ageless, I don't think he can grow physically older in appearance, just because of the experamentation. That explains his story.

If you accept the growth acceleration theory, it puts 4 things about 15 years ago... The war with Wutai, the birth of Sephiroth, Vincent's torture/sleep, and Aeris' arrival in Midgar. These things all could happen about the same time, because it is that Gast and Ifalna were together in Icicle Inn after Gast left Shinra and Hojo took over, and Aeris arrived while the war was going on, as Elmyra was waiting for her Husband. Here is a summary, in order.

LEADING UP TO AND AROUND 15 YEARS AGO
-----------------------------------------------------

Lieron · « **Reply #36 on:** 2003-03-22 19:36:21 »

if Lucrecia died.... how do we talk to her in that cave?

Contra · « **Reply #37 on:** 2003-03-22 23:58:42 »

That was a ghost. o_o I think a side effect of Jenova cells on that level is a near-total inability to remerge with the lifestream after death. Hence, Sephiroth just reforming in the northern cave. Granted, sephiroth did return to it in the end of the game, but how much work did that take, eh?

Lieron · « **Reply #38 on:** 2003-03-23 00:03:40 »

the thiong said something about "strong will" having to do with not going to lifestream

Contra · « **Reply #39 on:** 2003-03-23 02:28:18 »

Quote

Sephiroth...

Vincent...

Vincent
!!!

Vincent
"That voice?
It can't be..."

Vincent
"Lucrecia...?"

"Vincent......?"

Vincent
"Lucrecia!!"

"Stay back!!"

Vincent
"Lucrecia...
You're alive..."

Vincent
"Lucrecia...
You're alive..."

Lucrecia
"I wanted to disappear...
I couldn't be with anyone...
I wanted to die..."

"But the Jenova inside me
wouldn't let me die..."

Lucrecia
"Lately, I dream a lot of Sephiroth...
My dear, dear child."

"Ever since he was born
I never got to hold him, even once..."

"Not even once.
You can't call me his mother...
That...is my sin..."

Vincent
"Lucrecia..."

Lucrecia
"Back!!
Stay back!"

Lucrecia
"Vincent...
Won't you please tell me?"

Vincent
"......What?"

Lucrecia
"If Sephiroth is still alive?"

"I heard that he died five years ago.
But I see him in my dreams so often..."

"And I know that physically, like myself,
he can't die so easily."

"Please, Vincent
tell me......"

Vincent
"Lucrecia...
Sephiroth is dead..."

Received "Death Penalty"......

Received "Chaos"......

Vincent
"Lucrecia......"

Okay.. If I remember correctly, Lucrecia faded both in and out in that scene... She is still alive, but her body died. Hence, she is a ghost.

That is exactly ripped from the PSX version, with the exception of the substitution of strait quotes for the dynamic quotes 7mimc uses. (and this forum doesn't comprehend).

Sukaeto · « **Reply #40 on:** 2003-03-23 18:54:55 »

The only thing is, Aeris is 22 years old. That means Gast had to have left Shinra at least 22 years before FF7 starts.

Contra · « **Reply #41 on:** 2003-03-23 20:38:40 »

*nods* I labeled the list 'LEADING UP TO AND AROUND 15 YEARS AGO' I probably should have made that more clear. It's end is years ago, it begins a sopmewhat indefinate length before that... BTW, How old do you think Aeris was when she arrived in Midgar? That will help me make this clearer.. and I'm simply not sure. =/

Threesixty · « **Reply #42 on:** 2003-03-24 19:54:17 »

http://rpgpalace.gamersuplink.com/games/ff7/script/ff7disc2.txt

The tapes are near the top...if you read them:

The Daughter records always confused, me. The naming of Aeris....IF it's a girl she'll be named Aeris that's that....

10 days after birth.....I think it should have been read 10 days after conception....or 10 days, before birth...

Then, Hojo waited 2 years...for this new sample, Aeris? but the tape is labled 20 days after birth. Aeris seems to be already born in this tape, though. But the counterdiction lies in the 2 years or 20 days....

I think it's 20 days....so Aeris is about 3 weeks old when Hojo takes her and Ifalna. I don't think they escaped....Hojo took them to Shinra Headquarters, and later they made the escape to the lower sections....

Aeris is about 7 or 8 years old when she is taken in by Elmyra

quote:

Elmyra
"Aerith is an Ancient. The sole survivor."

Barret
"...What did you say? But, aren't you her mother?"

Elmyra
"...Not her real mother. Oh... it must have been 15 years ago..."
"...during the war. My husband was sent to the front. Some far
away place called Wutai."

http://rpgpalace.gamersuplink.com/games/ff7/script/ff7disc1.txt

Proof of Escape from Shinra:

"Aerith and I became close very quickly. That child loved to
talk. She used to talk to me about everything."

(We are back at the living room, but some time past. Aerith as a young
girl runs down the stairs, then trips on the rug. Elmyra rises from the
table, helps her up, hugs her, then Aerith scampers out the front door.
The living room disappears off the top of the screen.)

"She told me she escaped form some sort of research laboratory
somewhere. And that her mother had already returned to the planet, so she
wasn't lonely... and many other things."

Contra · « **Reply #43 on:** 2003-03-24 20:02:02 »

Yeah.. this whole storyline, while amazing, is a bit of a bitch to understand... I think it should all be written up once we figure it out.

To save other people from making this same discussion.

Simon · « **Reply #44 on:** 2003-03-27 21:32:36 »

sorry im writing this reply whilst being extremley tired and not having played the game for about 5 months so forgive me if im a little off, but here are my points:
1) Jenova is an alien that crashed intpo the planet 10,000 years ago or whenever hence the northern crater
2)Hojo injected himself with jenova cells took lucrecia to a nightclub, took her home then raped her, hence sephiroth was born.
3)Sephiroth was thrown into the mako type stuff by cloud and was sucked thru to the center of the planet and stayed there ever since.
4)Using his mind and the power of jenova he created the illusion he was causing havoc accross the planet.
5)Cloud could fly because the jenova cells inside him were made active.
6)sephiroth had the power to create illusions using jenova, hence he showed nibleheim being burned and when u fight him at the end the planets are not really destroyed.
7)Spehiroth is the only ever person to be born with jenova cells as part of the natural DNA due to hojo being a spanner.
8)The Weapons were created by the planet to destroy everything. why? To guarentee to get rid of all evil.
9)I beleive all humans are extinct after the 500 yrs at the end. why? because bugen said its up to the planet to decide. It would make sense to me to kill of the humans with their life sucking technologies. Also if they were still alive why7 would Midgar be left like that? ie, not knocked down or anything.
10)the laughter at the end is Red XIII children. How did he get them when he was the last in his species? god knows

Contra · « **Reply #45 on:** 2003-03-27 21:58:38 »

Well, sphiroth was exparamented on while he was in the Womb. I don't think Hojo had exparamented on himself yet.

I simply thought Midgar had been abandoned by man and overgrown..

And lastly... Yeah? How the hell did Red XIII have a kid? Obviously, they must find more of his kind somewhaere along the line. Either that, or... Nanaki is Female, and was already impregnated, and the species has a MAJOR Gestation period... But that isn't true, because while Hojo's an ass, he isn't dumb enough to try to mate two females.

I wish I could get on the staff for VII-2. I have a whole sequel made up... In my head...

Lieron · « **Reply #46 on:** 2003-03-27 23:03:53 »

maybe hojo took lucrecia to the HoneyBee Inn lol

Sinister Heaven · « **Reply #47 on:** 2003-06-02 17:43:17 »

People, people... Let's set this straight, please.

Hojo and Lucrecia got cozy together, and after that he infused the womb with Jenova cells... Thus Sephiroth was born, and het got a tattoo of number ONE on his hand... The game clearly states that numerous times.

Cloud throws Sephiroth in the Lifestream, 16 years later in the Nibelheim reactor. Where does the Lifestream end up? The Northern Crater, where the Earth's most powerful source of energy is. Logically, this is also the place where the WEAPONs reside.

Sephiroth is crystallised here, just like any mako energy that reaches the surface, and he is sort of a fossile at that moment. He has Jenova's head with him; he took that from the reactor.

Following the Reunion Theory, Jenova's body woke up, and started moving towards the Northern Crater to get her head back. All other parts of her started moving as well at that moment. Why at that moment? I think Bugenhagen states that; thanks to the cries of the planet. Jenova did not cause that. Shinra did.

Anyway, to get Sephiroth back to life, the person who would follow out her task, and to summon meteor, she needs the black materia. That is why Jenova takes the shape of Sephiroth to manipulate Cloud, the only succeeded 'clone' still in power of thinking at a normal level... His head filled with confusion, maybe because of the Jenova cells, and maybe Jenova even manipulated him in thinking all that stuff about himself.

Jenova lured Cloud along, but did not expect an Ancient to be with him. Which is why she tried to get Cloud to kill her. When he did not, she did it herself, in Sephiroth's form.

Sephiroth awakens when Cloud gives the Black Materia to him: The Materia that reverses creation: It turned the crystal effect on Sephiroth BACKWARDS, causing him to revive.

In the end, when fighting Bizarro Sephiroth, you can clearly see two arms moving over Sephiroth when he moves... Like somebody plays him... As a puppet. These are obviously Jenova's tentacles.

Jenova is the true evil, Sephiroth was just abused, Cloud was abused, everybody was manipulated in her schemes... The only one that gave a twist to it was Hojo, who gave Sephiroth enough power to outlive Jenova and build out his own scheme...

Because when Safer Sephiroth is beaten, Cloud faces the REAL Sephiroth... An easy opponent, because he probably still is at the level 50 he was during the flashback...

I hope I didn't miss anything important. if I did, let me know.

Contra · « **Reply #48 on:** 2003-06-03 20:52:33 »

Heh, in all actuality, that Sephiroth has 0 HP. If you use Game Shark or something to get an enemy skill materia in that fight, with the skill

? and use it, it will do 0 damage... and kill him.

But I agree, Sephiroth was an innocent. The only true evil force in FF7 was Jenova, and Jenova controlled them all. However. I don't think Jenova took Sephiroth's form, just controlled him, neither do I think that Jenova ever communicated directly with Cloud.. that whole white flash/red flash thing.. they are all Sephiroth.

On another note.. this is a dead post. Don't revive anything that hasn't been replied to in over a week, unless it is stickied.

~Contra~

Rubicant · « **Reply #49 on:** 2003-06-04 00:04:02 »

Nobody knows what the hell they're talking about. It all boils down to opinion.