Author Topic: [FF7 mod idea] Need some help defining challenge  (Read 712 times)

NFITC1

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[FF7 mod idea] Need some help defining challenge
« on: 2018-03-14 16:31:42 »
I've noticed a few "randomizer" games starting to pop up in the modding community as a while (specically LoZ, LttP and SMB3) and thought it would be great/funny/frustrating to do this with FF7 as well. I think it's possible, with enough hijacking, to remove lots of the calculation of the mechanics and make them actually random rather than influenced by stats. statuses, power, etc. It would also be possible to randomize encounters (sans boss encounters), chest contents, shop inventories, chocobo breeding results, et al just by modifying the exe. The only question I really get stuck on is what SHOULD be randomized?

Here's a partial list of what I've determined should and shouldn't be randomized:

-Action accuracy: much more random on if it will hit or not. 50% hit rate across the board might not be great, but it will balance "well" with other plans
-Action damage/healing: as long as it connects, it can do anywhere from 0 to 9999 damage.
-Statuses/Elements being inflicted: this entire idea might be unbalanced since any random multi-hit action can one shot an entire party with paralyzation. Maybe just randomize a set of statuses (haste, slow, poison, regen, etc)
-ANY random encounter formation can be encountered anywhere: potentially terrible. Would almost certainly game over if the first random encounter was a Stilva or something.
-Chests have random contents with very few exceptions: One key among most randomizers is just randomizing placement of key items/unique items. Getting a Tissue when you thought you were getting the MP Absorb materia might be frustrating. Or using multiple save crystals might break the game.
-Shops contain random items: this is probably the hardest thing to implement and would require a seed stored somewhere. Making sure weapons had appropriate weapons/armor wouldn't be necessary if damage and accuracy is always random. :)
-Randomize materia: this will be the first on the chopping block since you won't be able to make mastered materia without at least one of each in a set. The best way to enforce this is to not randomize the materia at all.
-Randomize fields: Absolutely not. This will break the game in almost all cases.

Of course the most important question would be does this sound interesting to anyone? If no one would go for it then it's pointless to start. Maybe I'd release them all as individual patches so you can mix and match your favorite randomized features.

Covarr

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Re: [FF7 mod idea] Need some help defining challenge
« Reply #1 on: 2018-03-14 16:49:04 »
One of the things that makes other randomizers work so well is that they're all based on keeping the game mechanically pretty much the same, but randomizing the path. They also tend to be much shorter games. Knowing them inside and out allows the player to make strategic decisions, especially geared towards races. In LttP Randomizer, for example, a player might choose to take a chest-heavy path because it's more likely to contain the items they need, or reroute in hopes that they'll find what they need along the way.

You really can't do that with FF7. The game's critical path is basically set in stone. That's not to say this game can't be randomized, but I don't think it would be comparable to other popular randomizers. I rather suspect that a randomizer interesting enough to make this game more than just a chaotic mess would be a ton of work, a ton of elements conditional on each other to keep it playable, just like the other randomizers but on a ridiculous scale. Anything less and you're just messing about with numbers.

NFITC1

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Re: [FF7 mod idea] Need some help defining challenge
« Reply #2 on: 2018-03-14 17:10:12 »
That's a good point that I hadn't thought about. Every time I think about this idea it's sounded less and less interesting mechanically for reasons I couldn't put into words. You summed it up nicely. I guess the concept doesn't translate well to an RPG.

Still the idea is out there and I might toy with a few randomized aspects.

Kaldarasha

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Re: [FF7 mod idea] Need some help defining challenge
« Reply #3 on: 2018-03-14 19:06:59 »
What would be interesting, would be a random dungeon challenge like in Lufia II. A 100 level dungeon where you start with no equipment and level 1 and must find and fight your way through it. The treasure chests should have some random items based on the current enemy level of the area but with a chance to get a higher or lower leveled items. The enemies should be bound by the location so you can't predict which enemies you will fight. If we put in some boss and subboss fights this could become really cool. Though, while a proof of concept of this could be done with 7th Heaven already, I don't think we have all necessary tools for it yet.

DLPB

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Re: [FF7 mod idea] Need some help defining challenge
« Reply #4 on: 2018-03-14 22:48:17 »
Most of the suggestions would be very difficult to implement or too unfeasible. Some could work for a bit of a quick challenge.  The RNG should certainly be made fully random.

I could certainly create a new tag inside text that looked up item names...  but getting those tags into text in field?  And setting field coords for items ?  You can't know what XYZT is...  you'd need to create a list of coords (or a way of getting valid coords) for every field at the very least no matter what approach.
« Last Edit: 2018-03-15 07:50:02 by DLPB »