Upscaling pre-rendered backgrounds

[kennybones]

New user here I haven't been active in FF mod communites, but I've been lurking for years.

I've been a fan of pre-rendered backgrounds ever since FF7 first came out. It's so brilliant and I can't see why more game developers don't use it. It saves up so much more power for super detailed actual 3d models in game. I don't mind a fixed camera at all.

And upscaling pre-rendered backgrounds has been an issue for years, and still is. Why Square didn't keep their source material is beyond me.
But I've been doing some tests on how the upscaling could be done, and came onto a technique by accident really, but I think it looked kinda good :p

Step1: Scale up the image 400%, ending up at 2560x1920, with Bicubic smoother
Step2: Smart blur with 100 radius, treshold about 50. This gives sharper edges, while blurring the "insides" of objects
Step3: Here's "clever" bit. Merge the image down and copy it, go back in history before Step2, and paste it. Set blending mode to Dissolve and 50% opacity.

The result is this:
https://db.tt/c3zujLhP

I think it looks surprisingly good. It does add some noise, but that kinda masks the flaws as well. Haven't seen this with actual 3d models on there though. And I haven't actually done this with any real game assets. But I think it might be a good starting point. So I threw that image into Illustrator
And some really interesting stuff happened after live tracing it.

Step1: Use preset High Fidelity photo and adjust so paths is 50%, corners 50% and noise 5px.
Step2: Click expand and copy that sh*t to Photoshop as a smart object.
Step3: Add on top of and/or mix with image from the first method. I tried playing with opacity on there as well.

The result is this:
https://db.tt/mJEyI5TD

This is also pretty good, but takes a bit more work. And takes a bit longer, depending on the computer's horse power. Mine is shait so it took a few minutes.

Downscaling it again to 1920x1440 using Bicubic sharper:
https://db.tt/pXdUl9I6

What say you?
I've always wanted to upscale the backgrounds and add new 3d models in the game, but not those Advent Children models, I don't think they look good when the backgrounds aren't really top notch. What I'd like to do is to basically take the battle models and put those inside the game. Or remake them, using Bravely Default's character designs as inspiration. Slightly chibi, bit not too kawai. And upscale all backgrounds using a method like these above.

[cmh175]

These aren't half bad actually. I'm interested in seeing how well these work in the game. You should try a small demo pack with different towns, I'd be interested in trying it out.

[kennybones]

Yeah, well I haven't even installed the game on my computer yet :p And I've yet to get into the whole modding as well.
Here are a few more. I find they work better when scaled a bit down again. Not too huge.

Here are a few more:

https://db.tt/G1OYtWjW
https://db.tt/OwboK4Qb
https://db.tt/3vCdKpY4
https://db.tt/lm6aKzlm
https://db.tt/YAxJYf3w
https://db.tt/ePWeXKsB
https://db.tt/Xg4DaSd6

Some of these are better than the other, I guess I messed up the initial smart blur a bit on a few of them.
But the 7th heaven ended up pretty good!

[yarLson]

Well if your actually going to go through with it, make sure you check out omzy's script for automating most of the work.  You'll have to edit it up a bit to fit your method but its not so bad.

Also he has a pack that he did a few years back with the backgrounds already completed.

More recently I have actually finished my own upscale project as well using my own method that I found to  be superior in quality and actually touched up a lot of the scenes by hand to make it more of a seamless experience.  You can check out my work here.

So if your going to redo your this project in your own style I'll help as much as I can with pointers and things that I have found to make things easier.  However your going to want to test all of your scenes in game before deciding on a process because what looks good in photoshop might look tacky or unfit in game.  In particular your scenes might be a bit too blurry and noisy and will contrast poorly with the 3d models which are sharp and devoid of any shading or noise.  Blurring sounds like a great idea at first, I used to think so anyway but in execution it always panned out poorly and made the upscales feel too obvious.  Trust me save yourself days of work and test first before you get too excited.

Anyway that's just my opinion on it.  Good luck.

[kennybones]

Yeah, I've noticed that upscaling the backgrounds might not fit well with the sharp characters. So art direction would be key here. What might be better is to aim for a painting-ish style. Something along the lines of this https://db.tt/VsTEhIwq

It's still blurry though. And just sharpening it doesn't do any good either, because of white lines along edges that are hard to remove. So there's a balance that you can't just automate either. What works on one scene might not work on others. So this would be a pretty time consuming process to say the least! I have a friend of mine who's a graphic designer who has some ideas. So we'll whip something up and do some testing on what might work or not

[yarLson]

Well I wish you luck but be aware.  If you plan on doing this by hand one by one it could take years.  That's how I started several years back and I only got about 1/7 done in almost 5 months.  Don't want to discourage you but I just hope you realize the magnitude of the workload involved.  Unless you've got the time to work full time.  Also not everything works perfectly such as the lighting which will make your time feel like wasted effort.  And cutting out the layers in some scenes by hand could drive you absolutely mad.

Also, from the beginning we we're all we aware that automation was not the ideal process and that trade-offs would have to be made.  However in order to actually release a finished product it felt necessary. There is the question of consistency as well.  To have different scenes all in different styles just because that's what works best for each does not mean that the overall experience would feel seamless and flow naturally as you put the pieces together.  All of these problems can't be solved by up-scaling alone.  Which is why Team Avalanche exists.

I consider my project nothing more than an interim solution to a problem which can only truly be solved by re-rendering the scenes from scratch.  Just some food for thought.  I hope I have motivated you to prove me wrong on all accounts. 

[Changeling]

I've been a fan of pre-rendered backgrounds ever since FF7 first came out. It's so brilliant and I can't see why more game developers don't use it. It saves up so much more power for super detailed actual 3d models in game. I don't mind a fixed camera at all.

And upscaling pre-rendered backgrounds has been an issue for years, and still is. Why Square didn't keep their source material is beyond me.

I've always wanted to upscale the backgrounds and add new 3d models in the game, but not those Advent Children models, I don't think they look good when the backgrounds aren't really top notch.

-What I'd like to do is to basically take the battle models and put those inside the game.  came onto a technique by accident really, but I think it looked kinda good

I think they look amazing man. 

No disrespect Yarlson.  I love your original pack that has more of a film grain effect and WOW what a difference.  The original backgrounds are so damn ugly it's hard to get that same experience you did when you were a kid.  Your pack made everything tolerable.  In fact, I haven't really played 7 for like a decade because I've been waiting for you talented people to do exactly what Ken has said.  Perfect would be those 320x240 backgrounds to high definition but that would be some hard work, I understand that.

What I don't understand is we had a pack on the way with the battle model style, it was like 70-80% complete, I don't remember.  But it really was almost finished right?  Because the original pack was in like 2004.  Then that horrible movie came out and then the beta of that pack was garbage. 

You guys trying to make it look like that movie, with this engine it's IMPOSSIBLE.  You see that right?  It doesn't fit whatsoever, they look so out of place it's almost laughable.  How about using your gifts making the game what it was supposed to be in the first place, then save Advent Children for version 2.0 or something.  Plus that movie sucked and it was nothing like 7 how could you like it?

Very excited for this new Reunion patch though, almost feels like it's coming together.  Between the graphics finally being updated to not look so damn pug fugly and the difficulty raised a bit, that's going to be a great experience.  I'm not sure about the translation but I hope he does well with it, but that's all a matter of taste.  For example I never liked 'Aerith', even though that's actually her name.  It's like calling Terra - Tina.

Anyway way off topic Ken, your backgrounds are fantastic and you should continue working on them.  You've come up with some ingenuitive techniques with Photoshop, great work.

Again Yarlson, it's too bad you abandoned your original concept because they were somewhat similar. 
Compare these two backgrounds, which do you believe is easier on the eyes?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18681882/junon.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NBYJPhm.png

The first doesn't have that HQ4X...filter look to it.  (Can't really describe the HQ4X look, like a glob of paint).  It almost looks like an original when it's scaled down.
Don't get me wrong though, I have a lot of respect for you.  You actually finished something.  And the first pack looks really good.  YOU did that, all of it and that's amazing.
So maybe you two should work together on making an ingenious method and patent this new technique - get rich

I know I've been kind of all over the place, but one more thing.  Shouldn't super deformed models should be secondary?  They're never going to look right.  Those models were placeholders, they ran out of time.  But you know, the whole time I've been thinking I haven't contributed anything so who am I to talk?  I was going to finish my VI translation for the third time but when people talk about their personal lives bringing things to a halt, let's just say mine was fucking true horror.

And on that note, keep up the good work!

[kennybones]

Thanks I am however a diplomat and I get that this is really hard work. It's almost like it would be better to actually recreate the scenes in 3d and render them out again. It's a shame Square didn't keep the source material, it's actually amazingly stupid that they didn't.

But, have you seen the lost art from FF9? Evidently, Square outsourced some of the work to other people, and this guy kept his original hi-res versions of some of the art he did back in 1999. And what amazes me is that, yes they look good. But they look like paintings really. Meaning, it's not realism that's the aim. And most likely wasn't with FF7 either. That means that the general art direction shouldn't be realism, but rather making everything fit together, just like yarLson says.

I can't promise that I'll get that much work done, but I'm going to research some more. Trying different things.
And I just thought about something, digital pixels aren't at all like analog points. Meaning, you can't get information where there is none. So all you have to work with are the original pixels from the 320x backgrounds. But what if they were printed and then scanned? And then run the filters through it? Just a thought, I'll try a few things out

And yarLson, I do realize the magnitude of work this involves. That's why I can't really promise anything. But I want to have a go and perhaps make some guidelines on how this might be automated as well. The real dream is to remake FF7 like it originally was intended, only in hi-def. And I don't want realism, I don't want voices, and I actually don't want super hi-poly characters either. It just doesn't fit the style. And lastly, I want fixed camera, like the pre-rendered scenes offer. There's something really special about those huge scenes where you hardly even see Cloud, only that pointer above his head It's the magic I would want to recreate.

I realize why Square hasn't remade this game yet. Because the general style and direction would impact everything. If they would recreate it with FF15 quality, they'd never be done. Because FF7 is such a huge game. And it's huge because it was possible to create that much content without spending 40 years making it. And that's because of the pre rendered scenes and text speech.

So yeah I'll update whenever I can. Btw, what are the tools I'd need to actually insert the new backgrounds into the game? Can I do it with the PSX version?

Btw: Did you know that there exists a DVD of higher def versions of some of the movies from FF7?
http://www.videogameauctions.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/ff7dvdcomparison.jpg

Looks bloody brilliant.

[yarLson]

Unfortunately its only possible with the PC version.  Your going to need an unlgp tool to get the scenes out.  Your going to need Palmer to extract the png's and then to put the scenes back but your also going to have to come up with some sort of method to cut the layers out so that the scene reacts correctly when character going under trees or into doors.  I can't give you a step by step but its not too hard and the tools should all easily be found in the tools section.

As far as printing and scanning, it doesn't do anything good.  I have tried it a long time ago and it just degrades quality drastically.

[DLPB_]

Square could easily remake ff7 in 720p if they simply updated what needs to be updated and didn't hang on to any silly notions of full 3d areas.  But because of a deluded philosophy of graphics being more important than anything else, that won't happen.  They are bone idle too.  They can make money without putting any effort into games.  FF7 doesn't need full 3D environments at stupid details, it just needs a proper workup based on the original game.  It isn't that hard at all.

[yarLson]

Yeah its too bad its not a Nintendo property otherwise it'd probably already be done.  They did great with OOT and Winder Waker HD remakes.  They didn't try to reinvent anything.  Just brought everything up to a modern standard that appeals to today's audience.  For example OOT had some prerendered backgrounds in the original game such as in Links house, but in the remake the scenes were full 3d yet they didn't try to reinvent the area or add over-complicated graphics mechanics or even embellished cut-scenes. 

It was the exact same game, just more detailed modeling and higher resolution textures.  Such a thing could easily be done with FF7.  Heck OOT's remake was outsourced to another art company and Sqaure could do the same thing and not even have to deal with it.  It could be released on multiple platforms and it would sell like mad.  Its so silly, but I wish Square had never merged with Enix.  Maybe I'm wrong but that seems about the time when every decision they made seem to end up sucking for everybody.

The only game I have liked since then is Star Ocean III and that was mostly finished before the merger and mostly a work of Tri-Ace anyway.

[obesebear]

I was going to finish my VI translation for the third time but when people talk about their personal lives bringing things to a halt, let's just say mine was fucking true horror.

Sorry to go off topic, but I'm pretty sure there are still people waiting on this...

[Changeling]

You're kidding.

[Changeling]

Man, I feel bad.  I mean I'll get to work, if the people liked my writing style mixed with the other translations.  It did appeal to a more adult audience by making everything a little darker.  One bit that comes to mind...  That old mans....journal?  It's been a very long time.  The one that describes unusual sounds coming from the basement.  The last entry was creepy I can't remember it though.  I spent some time on that.  I remember it was like something out of The Shining.
Oh and Terra caring for the children in the World of Ruin, they were much more attached to her which made it extremely sad.  Which is appropriate for the setting.  And a guilt trip was laid on the player as they made YOU feel like the one taking her away.
All the NPCs had varied dialogue that wasn't out of place, for example something like "If you travel west, you'll discover..." Why would someone just start saying that shit? 

It was cool it's just doing it AGAIN is going to be a pain in the ass man....I can not believe I lost that file.  I should've backed it up or something, but I never get crashes or viruses.
But, you may not even want mine, it seems someone else has taken the idea upon themselves.  I haven't played it because whenever I think about it I'm going to nitpick at everything.  I don't normally do that with videogames but I rebuilt the whole script.  To each his own though, and this one has hundreds of bug fixes.  If not, and I get some demand like "Hi, pardon me for saying this but where the hell is the stupid patch!?!??!?"  I'll do it.

'FFVI Improvement Project'
http://slickproductions.org/forum/index.php?topic=1115.0

'Pandora's Box'
http://slickproductions.org/ff6patch.php?id=Pandoras%20Box%20demo%203.1

And to the people, I apologize for it not being released.  I lost a family member, and it was worst thing that has ever happened to me.  I had to leave the state, all my friends, girlfriend, family.  Anyway, the only reason I'm saying any of this - I hate it when people promise something that you're looking forward to and it just gets abandoned.