Author Topic: The PCDLS...Project...Thingy. (Read 18487 times)

KojiroTakenashi · « **on:** 2002-12-28 21:52:00 »

Ok, If you read any of my topics (like you do), You'd know I'm interested in twiddling around with GM.DLS, as modifying it not only acts like your typical soundfont loading, but actually changes how Windows interprets MIDI data, to a degree (Still don't know how much or little).

Anyway, the name is (obviously) inspired by the FFSF Project, since it was battling with windows to use Sam's DLS as GM.DLS that inspired me in the first place :p

What would be needed is the following:

People with DLS knowledge (mine is limited, but that doesn't mean I'm a slacker. If this goes through I WILL contribute as much as I can)

A Programmer, or two. (Needed to create some sort of loader to force the DLS to Windows. Serves the purpose of both making the process easier and for making it MUCH easier to people with an edition of Windows that automatically restores the file, such as my own)

A Seperate Programmer (if the other one or two already don't know how) to create some form of MIDI loopback so that MIDI plays from the Microsoft DLS Synth, rather than the MS-GS Synth.

A couple of Guinea Pigs (Me included, would help go through the bliss/insanity of testing the sound. More than one needed so testing can be done on more than one piece of hardware)

The goal of this will be to create a replacement for GM.DLS that will improve ALL MIDI-type music on every Windows platform (and possible on others which use similar systems for MIDI that Windows does). Also future applications for the loader system may not be just for loading an improved GM.DLS, but for loading one that is simply different (Read - would break compatibility with the majority of things), thus assisting MIDI artists, or simply making one or two games in particular sound better, rather than the whole spiel.

...So, any takers?

Aaron · « **Reply #1 on:** 2002-12-28 22:06:21 »

You could just buy the S-YXG50, which makes all of the MIDIs sound pretty dang nice.

But not a bad idea, I guess.

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #2 on:** 2002-12-28 22:34:23 »

Well, the point of it is that EVERYTHING can sound better, for example the S-YXG50 should theoretically sound better with the GM.DLS replacement over an S-YXG50 on a system with the normal Roland-based GM.DLS

Anonymous · « **Reply #3 on:** 2002-12-28 22:48:31 »

Message

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #4 on:** 2002-12-28 23:00:58 »

Drawing from my primitive knowledge of any L337 H4x0r1ng, that looks pretty good. All it needs is a bit of an interface :p

As for how it could make the XG hardware sound better? I have absolutely no clue. The XG softsynths, which appear to not use GM.DLS in any way, or my WDM Device, which appears to use it's own whacked DLS-ish thing, all sound different, if not better when I replace it with something else, say Sam's FF8 DLS.

GM.DLS is technically a soundfont, and Soundfont files like Sam's would go as a replacement, therefore PC Soundfont Project :p

Anonymous · « **Reply #5 on:** 2002-12-28 23:36:34 »

Message

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #6 on:** 2002-12-28 23:41:02 »

...Ok~! You Win!

... -_-

Goku7 · « **Reply #7 on:** 2002-12-29 15:05:08 »

Quote from: KojiroTakenashi

As for how it could make the XG hardware sound better? I have absolutely no clue. The XG softsynths, which appear to not use GM.DLS in any way, or my WDM Device, which appears to use it's own whacked DLS-ish thing, all sound different, if not better when I replace it with something else, say Sam's FF8 DLS.

Eh?! What kinda drugs you been on, boy?

Seriously, though, the only thing that would make sense is if you were refering to the DM patch that's on the FF8pc install CD, which adds DLS capacity to the S-YXG50/70/100plus series of synths. It actually adds a new Dmusic device, simply called the "Yamaha XG SoftSynthesizer". It both can respond to SysEx messages that make it use the Variation effect, and can load DLS samples; however it can only handle DLS Level-1 compliant files. DLSlevel2 files will cause a blue screen crash (at least on mine it does).

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #8 on:** 2002-12-29 15:49:10 »

The WDM Wunder-device cannot load DLS2 either.

I play all my MIDI through DMusic when I can, sounds best and seems to be the speediest and most stable. I just know the thing sounds better. Look at my big spiel http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=1764 <There. Keep in mind that was 1.36, and I expect that 1.39 may sound even more incredible. Mmmm, Goku, I lust for your righteous guitar sample.

Goku7 · « **Reply #9 on:** 2002-12-31 03:39:49 »

Quote from: KojiroTakenashi

Mmmm, Goku, I lust for your righteous guitar sample.

Just to clear things up:

The sample isn't totally mine. I simply found it during my wanderings over the Internet

. I never recorded it; the only tweaking I've applied to the sample is to its intrinsic volume level, so it doesn't overpower all the other instruments in the Revision2 DLS.

In other words, I know you're probably calling it that because it's in the Revision2 DLS (which I put together from existing files/samples), but it (the sample itself) is not necessarily my "intellectual property" (and as such, I'm not claiming to be its creator) that I have created from scratch.

And on a side note, "lust" is such a strong word, I wouldn't use that.....

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #10 on:** 2002-12-31 17:04:13 »

Seriously dude, you should hear the sample playing FF7's "Still More Fighting".

...Or heck, even crappy "rock" MIDIs I have laying around. Mmmm...bliss.

Goku7 · « **Reply #11 on:** 2002-12-31 20:12:32 »

Quote from: KojiroTakenashi

Seriously dude, you should hear the sample playing FF7's "Still More Fighting".

...Or heck, even crappy "rock" MIDIs I have laying around. Mmmm...bliss.

Yeah, I've tried it on "Still More Fighting". It does sound rather good.

On the other hand, a generic rock MIDI that is trying to use the sample in a bass-end "grundge" style may not sound that good; same thing with solo's that hit really high notes.

Of course, what's really good is notes that are sustained for a fade-out. The feedback that occurs when using the sample on certain note ranges is truly amazing.

NetHead · « **Reply #12 on:** 2003-01-01 23:28:24 »

This is interesting, I'd be willing to join the team if it gets started. (I do MIDIs and soundfont editing as a hobby, check my site for some of my works [link in profile])

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #13 on:** 2003-01-02 00:27:16 »

Finally, on topic! ^^ I'd be glad to have ya.

NetHead · « **Reply #14 on:** 2003-01-02 00:49:58 »

Okay, I've gotten started by converting my 120MB soundfont to DLS. Thse are clips of what I have so far:

http://pcdls.digital-chaos.net

EDIT: OK, just redid the DLS using Audio Compositor. When SB DirectMusic Synth is selected in DirectMusic Producer, 1142 waves show up in the list. When I select Microsoft Synthesizer, all except for 3 disappear. I'll see what I can do.

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #15 on:** 2003-01-02 04:27:12 »

Well damn. 120 megs. Hehehe, I'll have to test that one out when I get my new Hard Drive.

Hmm, I very much enjoy your Choir voices. Though some of the drums sound a bit tinny.

...BTW, I may have someone record some samples for me from a nice acoustic guitar. Mmm...yummy.

NetHead · « **Reply #16 on:** 2003-01-02 17:07:44 »

What limits does the Microsoft Synthesizer have when it comes to DLS files? I just redid the GM and GS Drums section of the DLS, and it works in Microsoft DirectMusic Producer. Doesn't work in Windows through other programs, though.

Does the MS GS synth support Level 2 files? That could be the reason (though I hope not... Level 1 = suckage).

EDIT: Just converted to Level 1, and lo and behold, it works. Well, damn, not what I was hoping for, but hey, better than nothing.

Goku7 · « **Reply #17 on:** 2003-01-02 19:15:57 »

The difference in it working in DMP (short for DirectMusic Producer), and in other windows programs may actually be right in front of your nose.

First off, are you trying to play it back using the MIDI device labled "Microsoft GS Software Wavetable Synthesizer" (usually refered to on the VGMusic.com forums as the "M$-GS softsynth)? Specifically, the one you can use with Windows Media Player, and is automatically installed if you're using a motherboard that has onboard sound?

If so, that's the problem. While yes, it uses the GM.DLS file for its instruments, it is NOT the exact same synth that is used by default in DMP, though the name may be similar. The DLS synth used in DMP to do its work is called simply the "Microsoft Synthesizer", or if you're using WinME (and is probably the same in Win2k/XP), then it's called the "Microsoft DLS Synthesizer".

The Microsoft DLS Synthesizer is capable of handling DLS-Level2 files if you are runing DirectX version 8 or higher. However, installing DX8 or higher will probably NOT allow the M$-GS synth (the one Media Player can use) to use DLS-Level2 files, since Windows treats it as a totally separate synth than the Microsoft DLS Synth.

Also, the Microsoft DLS Synthesizer, like all DirectMusic-compliant synthesizers, is completely invisible to normal MIDI players (like Windows Media Player, the Crescendo MIDI plugin for internet browers, etc.). The only exceptions to this rule are programs like Winamp versions 2.7x and 2.8x (Winamp3 doesn't seem to do it, what a shame), because their MIDI plugins are specifically written to interface with the DirectMusic engine. Since most MIDI players are not coded to do that, they turn a blind eye to the DirectMusic spectrum of synths.

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #18 on:** 2003-01-02 19:36:02 »

Join us, Goku...you know you want to.

Anyway, I'd like to have everything available in a DLS1 AND 2 version, for different systems. My WDM-wunderkind doesn't support DLS2, sadly. And besides, DLS1 doesn't sound all that bad with alittle work...I mean look at Sam's DLS

Mmm...must get samples. Saaaammmples...

NetHead · « **Reply #19 on:** 2003-01-02 19:39:29 »

Okay, I'll start uploading what I've done so far then (watch the file size increase!). It'll be done in... 30 mins?!! Well that's just great.

78.6MB, DLS 1+2 (according to Audio Compositor)
http://www.digital-chaos.net/downloads/pcdls/gm.dls

PLEASE, do not download the file if you don't need to or if you want to just "see what it is". This is the one file that could literally wipe out my monthly bandwidth in a day.

Goku7 · « **Reply #20 on:** 2003-01-02 19:41:38 »

Quote from: KojiroTakenashi

Join us, Goku...you know you want to.

Anyway, I'd like to have everything available in a DLS1 AND 2 version, for different systems. My WDM-wunderkind doesn't support DLS2, sadly. And besides, DLS1 doesn't sound all that bad with alittle work...I mean look at Sam's DLS

Mmm...must get samples. Saaaammmples...

Yeah, I can give help from time to time, though compared to Samuel or "Cloud_Strife" (of the VGmusic.com forums) I'm only a beginner at DLS/soundfont tweaking. I've yet to fully comprehend all the different stuff you can do (in Awave Studio, in this case) to a waveform when preparing it to be a sample. The stuff I have done (mainly the Revision2 update to the Original FF8 DLS), was possible largely because they were relatively simple "imports" of waveforms that were already primed for use as instrument samples, except for the volume of the OverDrive Guitar, that one was a little too loud for me to just import and leave it alone.

-edit-
Had to reword a few sentences.

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #21 on:** 2003-01-02 19:42:07 »

Gee, it says 7.34 megs on the download...*test*

KojiroTakenashi · « **Reply #22 on:** 2003-01-02 19:43:54 »

You wouldn't happen to know why Awave keeps crashing on me, would you? This is getting annoying...

NetHead · « **Reply #23 on:** 2003-01-02 19:46:17 »

This is version .2, btw. Spent six hours exporting the GM and GS drums one by one from Audio Compositor because the damn thing corrupts the file when you export it whole.

Great. Looks like the M$ GS synth only has 64 polyphony. Ugh. (Is there a config button for it anywhere?)

Goku7 · « **Reply #24 on:** 2003-01-02 19:47:54 »

Hmm.....is the trial period for it already up? Maybe they programmed it to crash as an incentive to pay for it if you haven't already done so.

Other than that, how many programs do you have open simultaneously that are trying to access either the same Dmusic device or DLS? That can cause crashes if they try to use the same file at the same time, I think....

Author Topic: The PCDLS...Project...Thingy. (Read 18487 times)

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