Qhimm.com Forums
Miscellaneous Forums => Archive => Bootleg Questions => Topic started by: Insight on 2014-07-23 17:15:36
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Hello everyone,
since i am working on the new user interface ( UI ), i am interested in your current pc specs, to be precise your current operating system where you are playing ff7 on and what resolution are you using. In the end, everyone shall be able to use the interface to its full limits.
You have two options, one for the operating system and the other one is about the resolution.
The configurator is mainly done for windows users so far. There is no intention about doing a direct port to different operating systems (for now).
To give you a current state about the UI, i'd say it is done by 30%. All that's missing is logic and fine tuning. There is still quite a lot to do.
If you have any additional questions, feel free to ask.
Thank you for your patience regarding everyone who is working on that great tool.
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I added Vista to the 7/8 option. Should be functionally identical for these purposes, and probably almost nobody is using it, but completeness is always a good thing :P
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Thank you. You're right, I have forgotten to add it. :) Vista is just crap ^^
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I added Vista to the 7/8 option. Should be functionally identical for these purposes, and probably almost nobody is using it, but completeness is always a good thing :P
Win8.1 may need to be it's own option. I'm not familar with Windows 8 much at all, but apparently somethings work differently and may not be compatible. So that maybe worth noting.
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I play on Linux in wine 1.7 currently ..
my resolution depends on what display im using. its at least 1680x1050
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Win8.1 may need to be it's own option. I'm not familar with Windows 8 much at all, but apparently somethings work differently and may not be compatible. So that maybe worth noting.
Nah, that is okay, since the operating system will influence for example the usage of the framework version i use. everything above xp is great, because i can use the latest one ;)
And i don't know much about 8 as well, but we will test the tool on various platforms to ensure that it is working fine.
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Nah, that is okay, since the operating system will influence for example the usage of the framework version i use. everything
why not just use Qt for the GUI . it works everywhere. (trust me i know)
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I am developing the next app in C#.To be honest, i won't start from scratch and learn a new language. I am much faster in a language i know and which i am using nearly everyday, so thats why to be exact. After we copied the functionality into the new UI, the next step is to merge the Configurator with the actual Bootleg.exe, but thats still a bit far away ^^
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I am developing the next app in C#.To be honest, i won't start from scratch and learn a new language.
thats cool Qt is not a language its a toolkit.Its native language is C++ but it has binding for many languages not sure if its still useable but one of them was for C#. the nice thing about Qt is you code once you can almost always just recompile for another os with no code changes (even most platform specific stuff happens automagicly). althought with C# you will prolly need to use mono on non windows. you may even be able to use mono to build your application already for linux/ mac os (althought i think its only .net3.0 or lower still)
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I see. I am gonna check it out, when we have merged successfully UI with bootleg. Doing it before creates too much overhead. It is better to touch the complete solution, not something half baked. It will be a long time until it may be compatible with other OS. Cannot say for now if it will ever happen, but as I have said, I will take a look later on.
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Ewww C# :evil:
Depending on my mood I'm using either latest ubuntu and latest wine or win 8.1 with scaling OFF.
I'll test it out in wine when you get it all together... who knows what could happen lol
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I'm not quite sure, but is C++ not the modern version of C# ?
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If you put it this way, yes. You can do pretty much everything with C++, not with C# though. C# is convenient and easy to use. Especially useful if you don't want to create drivers, related stuff for operating systems.
When i am not mistaken you have to do extra work in C++ like cleaning up your code, being careful about memory leaks and so on. I really don't know C++ very well, but for this kind of application, C# is sufficient.
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When i am not mistaken you have to do extra work in C++ like cleaning up your code, being careful about memory leaks and so on.
The Programmer's goal should always be clean working code. Memory leaks they can happen when you write bad code in just about any language. here an example leak (http://crazorsharp.blogspot.com/2009/03/net-memory-leaks-it-is-possible.html) that can happen using C#'s event system. It looks like an easy trap to fall in also..
I'm not quite sure, but is C++ not the modern version of C# ?
C# (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_Sharp_(programming_language)) is the Microsoft version of C++ Heavly influenced by java. Because its a microsoft language the target platform is windows and everyother is an after thought or has to be created by 3rd partys (mono (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software))) and as a result can easily be stoped by microsoft they only promise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Open_Specification_Promise) to not. and will never be feature parity with .net . There are also parts of .Net that are not covered by the promise preventing some things from even being used on other platforms.
The modern verions of C++ is called C++11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C++11) (and next will be C++14). Unlike the properitary languages of .Net when you learn c++ you can use it anywhere on anything with a c++ compiler And since C++ is the best language ever the first compiler usually built for a new os or hardware is for C++. The other benifit to C++ is that usually you can just recompile your code to a new platform with little to no porting woes.
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thank you for your enlightment. i never cared so much about other languages nor do i have the need to look on others (as of now). c++ is still interesting though, but i am just too lazy to get the hang of other languages as long it is not needed... ^^"
and yes, you are absolutely right about the "clean working code" part.
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I only had therefore demand, because I've already tried to learn c++ (the accentuation is on tried).
But I have found that it requires a large amount of concentration and endurance, especially for someone who has previously learned nothing comparable.
It would sure be nice if we could write Bootleg entirely in a high level language, batch has in many places some restrictions ...
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Yep, batch is no option on the longterm. We will integrate bootleg later on in the UI. You can do more with C# as of now . C++ is tough and after you read my previous posts, I am quiet lazy.... ^^" haven't looked at the bootleg source files. Will do after 0.41 (new UI).
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*Update*
Just wanted to mention that we are making good progress. The UI is about 70% or so done. For the UI, there is still to do some stuff:
- Applying new content (mods). Updating the mods to a newer version and add new mods. Also removing mods which are not being supported anymore.
- The modlist. The list itself must be created first, then it will be linked to the content of the UI.
- Logic for selecting mods. Think about selecting the nightmare mod in the old UI, you couldn't apply some options after that. Something like that is missing.
- Filling the credits and help sections with information ;-)
- Some routines for first time initializing. There is some plain logic as of now, needs to be improved.
- Assigning the configuration of the UI to the bootleg process.
This will be version 0.50. New additions or changes to the mods will be updated regurlarly in the bootleg configurator.
Next goal is 0.60, to integrate the bootleg itself into the UI. Don't know when we will be at that point, but it needs to be done later on.
Yeah, thats it. After completing the new UI, it can be tested.
Stay tuned!
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Will 7th Heaven be part of the new Bootleg or not? ???
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God, I can not wait to view the release of the new Bootleg. The update listings are just so Adrenaline rushed they drive me nuts. Keep up the good work. :O
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Will 7th Heaven be part of the new Bootleg or not? ???
We are working towards this goal.
God, I can not wait to view the release of the new Bootleg. The update listings are just so Adrenaline rushed they drive me nuts. Keep up the good work. :O
Here's some teaser for ya.
(http://i.imgur.com/r4V42e4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/PIoabbk.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/31JapE6.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/vknMlBk.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/cHVNLCx.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/6p45I9d.png)
The Overhaul tab is literally just a bunch of checkboxes; not worth showcasing, at least for now.
(http://i.imgur.com/ZseXt6D.png)
1 = .
2 = -
This is not ready for release, and we cannot give out a release date.
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Oh my, I was not expecting something this clean, easy to follow and good looking. Very Microsoft Office 2013-I like it a lot.
As far as the model preview's work from within the app, are they just screen shots or are you actually loading ff7 data/have the intent to do so in the future?
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They're the exact same screenshots used in 040, for now (they were slightly changed to remove the purple background, though). This may probably change in the future.
Glad you're enjoying it. Insight did it all.
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Only to make it clear, like it looks now it looks for me like double work. Why not letting 7th Heaven handle all the mods? Otherwise will this only ends in compatibility issues.
Let say someone has installed APZ Cloud, but want to use my model overhaul. Then these person will report that he does not have the APZ Cloud model, because my model overhaul has overwritten it. This will happen even if you would explain the logic between the way Bootleg and 7th Heaven installs a mod in the manual.
The only possible way would be that Bootleg will create 7th Heaven mods or makes the edits for them, but even this looks for me like more work as needed. I don't want to be that negative, but it is better to say it now before it is too late, if you use 7th Heaven then all mods needs to be loaded through it or else we will get one bug report after another. Take this in account when you plan how the new Bootleg shall work.
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Under the hood, 7th heaven is probably the better route to go as far as applying mods, but this looks way better
Way way way better
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We're not implementing 7H into Bootleg, for obvious reasons that you and I know Kaldarasha. Vgr has never used 7H before, coupled along with the hours of mindless chat we've had tonight, I think he was just a tad zombified from tiredness and responded before knowing the situation.
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We're not implementing 7H into Bootleg, for obvious reasons that you and I know Kaldarasha. Vgr has never used 7H before, coupled along with the hours of mindless chat we've had tonight, I think he was just a tad zombified from tiredness and responded before knowing the situation.
I'm not zombified, I'm just a squirrel ok, don't judge me
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It's true, he's the nutcase of the crew.
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I'm a squirrel, and everyone knows I'm nuts. Does this mean... oh shit. I'm a zombie squirrel ain't I.
...
I need sleep.
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Look, if Bootleg don't use 7th Heaven then its meaningless to work on it anymore.
Because 7th Heaven will over run it after a while, it is faster in the installation, it keeps the files as they are, it doesn't need certain mods to run properly, you can safely disable a mod if you don't like it and it offers more possibility to mod the game. Overall it is very independent. The only downside is it might increase the start time for the game for a few seconds.
Also if we have two different Mod installer we will split up the people in Bootleg users and 7th Heaven users, which means maintaining two FAQ and Problems threads. If it comes worse Bootleg will even hold down 7th Heaven at the beginning, because former Bootleg user will use Bootleg, without even to consider to use 7th Heaven. This is competition we don't need.
I appreciate the work and the GUI looks awesome, but a Bootleg without 7th Heaven will end in a disaster (OK maybe not that extreme), however I fear that this work will be done for nothing and only slows down the development of 7th Heaven at the end.
I hate to be the one who brought this up, but it's an elemental question: will this be a Bootleg for the future with 7th Heaven or only a restoration of the old Bootleg?
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I'm a squirrel, and everyone knows I'm nuts. Does this mean... oh sh*t. I'm a zombie squirrel ain't I.
...
I need sleep.
Dude, get some sleep. :<
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You guys know what would be great? If you could pick and choose the exact mods you want with this tool, save and package your config into a .iro, then apply the mod with 7th heaven. This looks too intuitive and awesome to disregard as useless kaldarasha
As it stands, if you want to mod ff7, you need to individually download mods and package them(Big PITA especially the first time doing it, or if you haven't done it in a while) package it into an .iro and then load it up. It would take the whole headache out of modding our beloved ff7. My $0.02 :mrgreen:
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First things first. A change management will be implemented after bootleg is part of the UI. Can't do everything at once. We also don't like the idea of uninstallation the complete game and so on.
You should already know that this bootleg release is a copy of the old bfe with improvements. The current new UI is just a first try and may change in the future as well. We did need a UI in the first place which can be supported in the future and yes, that will be me. since brat has no time to offer anymore. Don't get us wrong, 7th is trying hard and is doing a great job and that's good. There had to be an alternative over time, it is a consequence for no new updates when it comes to bootleg.
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You guys know what would be great? If you could pick and choose the exact mods you want with this tool, save and package your config into a .iro, then apply the mod with 7th heaven.
Here is the problem, if you use the Bootleg configuration as a .iro mod you barely can use any other mod without to overwrite important settings you actually want to have. As I said my model overhaul would overwrite any other model selection if it is on top. I don't create an exception for other models, when it is easier to place over mine a .iro mod with all available Cloud models.
The best solution I see is to let Bootleg configure some basic Bootleg.iro mods and to let it sort the load order in 7th Heaven. Also it would be wise to make the setting first in Bootleg and after this the Download of the mods will start depending on the selection.
First things first.
Yes and the first thing is to decide in which direction the project should go. Actually I should have started this discussion earlier.
There had to be an alternative over time, it is a consequence for no new updates when it comes to bootleg.
This makes things only complicated. Why design a new car with an old engine at first, when you have a new engine already in front of you? Sure implementing 7th H. in Bootleg and making the necessary .iro mods will be much of work, but doing it afterwards will be a lot more work, because then you try to merge the old engine with the new one.
Here is an example:
Bootleg and 7th Heaven can co-exist, due how both work. So a user will bootleg his FF7 installation (30gigs to have all files), but he wants a certain difficulty mod which only is available as a 7th Heaven mod. He will try 7.H. for it and get used to it. While the new Bootleg might be able to update mods more freely, he will use 7.H. to update mods, because it's faster to test them out. Anyway after a while he wonders why he has so less disk space and he will see that his FF7 installation use 49GBytes, because he use now many .iro mods which do cover the whole game plus the bootleg installation, which is not even actively used anymore. What has pushed up the space use? Because he wanted to restore some settings in 7.H. he has used in his Bootleg installation, he has some mods twice and of course unnecessary moded files and here back ups.
This is a bit drastically, but it shows that it isn't userfriendly to have two mod installer. But the concept of a mod manger is to be userfriendly, otherwise it's a failure. I don't want to say updating Bootleg is entirely wrong, many former Bootleg user will use it.
Well it's up to you, if you guys would hear on my advice and built Bootleg around on 7th Heaven or if you really want to deal with this old 'Behemoth'. I simply don't want that people are working hard on something and in the end they realize that the work was for nothing or had to be done differently.
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I get almost everything you're saying Kaldarasah. I personally will be using 7H in the future, but not to disregard Bootleg if it needs the help as well. What I'm not understanding is your idea of using Bootleg + 7H. I'm not seeing how they can coexist, so what exactly is your idea behind that?
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I'm curious on how they could co-exist as well, i'm not seeing the "big picture" here with them having to co-exist. : I
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I just saw the teasers. I am really impressed with the work being put into it. You're doing a great job.
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i can see everyones worries (and Kal's point) and that it might lead to ultimate destruction :-P but the community will decide what they want.
we will continue our work and evolve the bootleg. you have the choice, you have the power.
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What's the point if it doesn't work. I agree with Kaldarasha. Some mods overwrite others. Maybe that can be mentioned in the description field for those mods.
...you have the choice, you have the power.
Actual Avalanche member spotted :D
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i can see everyones worries (and Kal's point) and that it might lead to ultimate destruction :-P
That's why said that I hate to bring this up.
What I'm not understanding is your idea of using Bootleg + 7H. I'm not seeing how they can coexist, so what exactly is your idea behind that?
The only point why to use Bootleg instead of 7th Heaven is it's ability to sort and installs mods in the right manner so they work together. 7th Heaven doesn't care, if the mod order is good or not, it expects that the user knows what he is doing.
So why not combine the strength of both and letting Bootleg sort the mods of 7th Heaven (similar like LOOT for Skyrim, which has become the new BOSS tool.)?
The ideal concept I can imagine is that I make my settings in Bootleg as usual and when I click on install, it will give 7th Heaven the information, which mods to download. And after that's done Bootleg will sort the mods so that they will work together.
The good thing is for Bootleg with this way that the maintenance of the mods is ways easier as it is with the old Bootleg method. You have a problem with a model? We only need to spot the iro, fix it and upload a new version of it. 7th Heaven will update the mod and everything works without a nasty uninstall and installation process. Bootleg can be update much faster, because all it do is to administrate the mods in 7th Heaven, so it's only needed to make Bootleg familiar with new mods and where they have to be in the load order. Even if Aali makes an update to his driver we aren't in the position anymore to say 'You have to use the old driver if you want everything working'. Another bonus is that we can support with 7th Heaven future mods, which introduce new folder structures like the voice over project.
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I'm not so sure the game is as complex as Skyrim to need a tool like LOOT/BOSS. Right now, the only load order priorities I've come across creating the catalog are with Difficulty/Story mods and Weapon mods. Some of the Difficulty/Story mods use their own char.lgp models, but not very many, so we're talking about the abilities to want to mix and match Kaldarasha models with, for example, Aerith Revival to make Kaldarasha's Aerith field models consistent throughout an AR playthrough. But all I did was create multiple Aerith Revival options and labeled them for use with their partner Field Models option. The only thing that can go wrong with this is if the user chooses, for example, Kaldarasha Field Models and MXster (Chibi Size) Aerith Revival. Then they will have a mismatch between all the field models and the Aerith field model.
IF we ever get to have an enemy model overhaul, then I can see the potential of needing a LOOT/BOSS like system because some of the Difficulty mods change the enemy models in the battle.lgp. But even then, modders need to learn to create their own model files like gjoerulv did in the Hardcore mod, completely separating it from the original game files. This will then not cause any conflict with enemy model changes to the original game files in battle.lgp.
I do think it would be pretty neat to have a presetup for 7H, where users choose what mods they would like and after the click of a button, 7H will automatically set all those options. But we're talking about eliminating the need to click each individual Configure button and choosing options that way. The time saved from that doesn't seem like a huge priority.