Messages

1

General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-04-03 23:44:03 »

@DragRopes

Congratulations! You just managed to add even less to the conversation then the person you regard as mentally retarded. Have a nice day.


(Ifalna)
2000 years ago, our ancestors, the Cetra, heard the cries of the Planet.
The first ones to discover the Planet’s wound were the Cetra at the Knowlespole.
The Cetra then began a Planet-reading.
It said something fell from the sky making a large wound.
Thousands of Cetra pulled together, trying to heal the Planet…
But, due to the severity of the wound, it was only able to heal itself over many years.
The Planet tried to persuade the Cetra to leave the Knowlespole, but…
When the Cetra…were preparing to part with the land they loved…
That’s when the one who injured the Planet… or the ‘crisis from the sky’, as we call it, came.
It first approached as a friend, deceived them, and finally, gave them the virus.
The Cetra were attacked by the virus and went mad... and transformed into monsters(Sephiroth much?).
Then, as it had in the Knowlespole.
It approached the other Cetra clans... and infected them with... the virus.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-04-03 21:46:09 »

As it looks now, a person has created the Black materia and cast meteor.

The Black Materia is Jenova's spaceship. It's also materia from Meteor. It's also what caused the northern crater. I can't remember where but Bugenhagen says that the northern crater will be nothing compared to what happens when Meteor comes.

I think Meteor's name as the "Ultimate destructive magic" is very telling. As Bugenhagen explains, when a planet loses all of its lifestream, it dies and falls apart and loses its orbit. I think Meteor injures the planet with the Black Materia, and then comes in and takes all the mako at the wound for itself. Especially because in the end video, it isn't just crashing into the planet, its slowly coming down.

He/she probably created also a way to absorb the lifestream to get more power (the virus) and became Jenova.

I agree in a way, except that the original Jenova did this on another planet, and became an organism that could manipulate its own lifestream, and is the only surviving member of the planet Meteor, where they store vast amounts of energy. Celestial bodies need a lifestream, and when you hit it with the rocket, those peices still stay "attached" to it.

If its a virus though, is it the virus or the person is a weird question. Does Jenova even have its own personality to begin with? Would that explain why you never interact with her? Do they all eventually go insane for not participating in the lifestream cycle and she needs fresh ones?

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-04-03 02:40:36 »

The only reason I dont think Sephiroth is is control is because when he first goes insane, he thinks he's an ancient and his mission becomes to destroy the traitors to the Cetra, humans. When Jenova completely takes control, he learns she killed all the Cetra, and he isn't one, and keeps on forwarding the plan without a second thought.

Sephiroth has no idea who he's fighting. First its Shinra, then its humans as a prehuman, then its humans as an alien, then he's trying to become god etc. He's just being used.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-04-01 17:15:22 »

When Jenova was dug up, they thought she was an ancient. When they injected her cells into a human, they thought they were making an ancient. When Sephiroth reads through the materials in the Shinra mansion and goes insane, he also believes they're ancients.

But thats just not true. Its very obvious that Shinra went from a arms dealer to a mercenary group during the Wutai fight, and its also what made them rich enough to do the things they did.

We do know what Jenova came with, why do you think shes nicknamed "The calamity from the skies," what do you think the northern crater is?

There is no doubt Sephiroth is a puppet of Jenova's to me. The difference is, he's a willing host, unlike the Ancient Host we see in Mt Nibel who's holding it in statis. Sephiroth uses it to survive being tossed into the lifestream/losing half his body and then figures out how to use it to travel to the northern crater. All while Jenova is slowly eating at his brain, replacing cell by cell with hers, driving him different levels of crazy as time goes on.

The way I look at it is, Jenova is braindamaged after spending so long in statis, only the most basic instinctual functions work, until she get rebuilt in Sephiroth and he becomes the new main "Jenova."

On the point of the Reunion. Its not their physical bodies that are reuniting. Its the Jenova lifestream energy that they've "grown" with experiences being returned in their deaths. It's also not them picking her up on an antenna and zoning in on it, but them all doing the same thing because they're Jenova infected.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-04-01 05:14:29 »

I'm not using anything but my own playing experiences to speculate, and thankfully "certainly can't start making your own theories up" doesn't apply to me. Because A) Fern you yes I can B) its 20 years too late to "start."

If you said Seto did what he did because he knew one day he would meet Nanaki. Then I couldn't argue that, the game doesn't say anything in the negative about that.

I have not used any external sources. I've never played any of the other "ff7 games," and honestly I've never been a part of any FF7 community because the fans of the game can be pretty offputting. Just because that guy got to similar idea as doesn't mean I'm wrong, or that I just copied him.

Fact:Shinra dug up Jenova, was led to believe she was an ancient, and was led to believe by injecting cells of it into people they could create ancients. But by who or what?
Speculation: Either Ancient Jenova Hosts left clues, or Jenova did it directly through the lifestream.

Fact: Bugenhagen tells us all celestial bodies have lifestreams and all lifeforms share a part of it. Jenova has lifestream energy, and its not from the planet.
Speculation: Meteor is Jenova's planet.

Fact:Planets make weapons when they are dying in as a last resort.
Speculation: Jenova is Meteor's last WEAPON.

Fact: Materia is the crystallized form of Ancients knowledge and memories.
Speculation: Memories are made of mako themselves, being a part of consciousness, not the body.

Fact: Sephiroth can send his entire mind through the lifestream because of Jenova cells, using it to control puppets from the north cave(usually around a mako reactor).
Speculation: Jenova can do so on a very local level without lifestream access, which is how I think she can transfer memories. In fact I think her power is being able to interact with the lifestream/mako energy while still alive.

Very much on topic.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-31 00:30:30 »

It does make a weird sort of sense. If Jenova contains her own lifestream(from her planet), and can use that to infiltrate the planets lifestream, then she could have even been leading them to dig her up. And the way Sephiroth uses the lifestream I'd believe it. Not only that, how else did she get them to inject her cells into people, being the exact thing she needed to get back to conquering the world.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-30 23:20:16 »

Yea I looked it up, I never even realized there was a letter to Tifa there in the past either.

I never really thought about it, its just how I figured it always was. What exactly does Brittenham think?

I'd say for myself I think the Jenova we see is actually a Jenova Host Ancient, whos holding back most of her powers, and the only time we see Jenova's true form is right before Safer Sephiroth.

I'd also agree about the comparisons between 7/9. 7 has a lot of different idea's that are ingenious but aren't well integrated. Where as 9 has a clear lead creativity direction, and almost every part is polished and made better with lessons from previous games. Idk, 9 just doesn't have something though, that I personally find in 7 even though its my 2nd fav FF. Part of it has to do with materia and making any character do anything. Though 9's 4 party members, and learning abilities through equipment is very polished and much more FF like.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-30 22:05:32 »

Well, I can't lie. I've played the game over 30 times, and never found that or don't remember it. So I will admit, that this shows they are definitely actors.

I still do think Jenova can manipulate memories. And I just figured Jenova would allow her cells to be used as far spread as possible to enable as many hosts as possible. Like the old science fiction trope of some amazing tech actually being an intelligent alien species for mind control.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-30 19:21:46 »

There are no clones. They are just humans injected with jenova cells (not the villagers. They are just actors).

I'm not gonna repeat myself about the Jenova Hosts. If I call them clones, and you can't connect what I mean, given thats the term used in the game, w/e.

On the other hand. I do not think they're actor's. There are 5 years between Nibelhiem and Midgar. Cloud is not suited to the Soldier program, yet still underwent it. Nibelhiem was destroyed, and needed to be replaced to stop questions. I don't think it's farfetched to think they could have used him to "seed" all the townies memories we see. The "normal" townies don't notice the black cloaks at all. Not only that, but its very obvious in one of the houses, they used to be a family, as there is a child black cloak.

Jenova cannot move under her own power, at least not well or fast. Otherwise Sephiroth would never have been needed in Nibelhiem or the Shinra Building and as soon as they dug her up she would have crushed the humans. She does not shapeshift. The“It took on the form of their dead mothers and fathers… Deceased family members…” is a legend written by the Cetra trying to explain the "Calamity from the Skies." Its probably explaining their loved ones getting captured in battles, returning in the bodies of strangers, so convincing it was like killing/being killed by the ghost of that loved one, where it may have cried and killed itself after or vice versa.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-30 17:35:34 »

DLPB, you mention Shinra completely replacing Nibelhiem, its inhabitants, and replacing all their memories. If you also note, its the largest concentration of "clones" anywhere in the game. I'd suspect every single person in that town is a Jenova host, they used her and she used them to replace the town, and the cloaks we see are regressed townies.

The only way to make sense of this, is if Shinra has tech to replace memories. But that Jenova with magic doesn't?

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-29 23:39:55 »

stormstrife, I think a lot of these misconceptions are coming from the word "clone". This was arguably Michael Baskett's biggest mistake in the game's original translation. They are, in no way, shape, or form, clones. Rather, they were an attempt to copy or clone the process by which Sephiroth was made so powerful in the first place.

Y'see, a typical SOLDIER would be treated with Mako to make him stronger, Sephiroth was something else. When he was still just an embryo inside Lucrecia, Jenova cells were implanted in him.

When "clones" are referred to in the game, what it means is "people who were subjected to a similar process". It's talking about duplicating the method used to make Sephiroth a supersolider, not literal duplicate people. Of course, they were all injected with Jenova cells later in life, so they were failures where Sephiroth was a success.

I'm not confused. I understand that. I'm pretty sure its actually Hojo who calls them clones, distorting the truth.

Y'see, a typical SOLDIER would be treated with Mako AND Jenova cells to make him stronger, Sephiroth was something else. When he was still just an embryo inside Lucrecia, mako and Jenova cells were implanted in him.

A slightly more accurate term would be Jenova clones, which would include Sephiroth. But the correct term is Jenova Hosts.

You don't think I think Cloud shares any DNA with Sephiroth do you, or any of the black cloaked zombies do? No. We know they all have Jenova cells though, and this is what gives the ability to connect them, not Sephiroth.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-29 22:55:48 »

No, Jenova headed to the north, leaving a few peices behind with the sephy pupa. When you see the Red soldier die, a Sephiroth copy is made from him and the peice of Jenova you fight when he drops it after it being "used up" and unable to be held by the soul form. The original Sephiroth pupa that killed the president with the masamune(which was probably in the shinra building) never even got on that ship. He killed the Midgar Zolom, got to Junon and found a mako/Jenova soldier that served his purpose and stuck the Jenova Birth arm in em, then went searching for the clone to make with Jenova Life/Death. There's a reason they're different names, Jenova gave him the instructions on how to build the soul needed, and the parts of her body you fight are built for those purposes.

All the Sephiroth clones kill themselves at the end of the Reunion. Right before you fight Jenova Death, the clone comments "You're Right. This is the end of this bodies usefulness" and disinegrates himself.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-29 22:23:13 »

Sephiroth is locked in a materia crystal in the north the entire game, yet we see him multiple times, leaving the dead body of a weak failed clone. Not only that, but later in the game in the ancients temple, you see the effects, multiple copies of different consistencies and out of sync.

He's also talking about merging with Jenova, which is what he does after he finally calls meteor. Which counters the soul loss aspect, but turns him into a "weapon." You then weaken the Jenova part, and unaltered Sephiroth takes control one last time and allows you to kill him to end it.

Edit:
Sephiroth was also not made the same way Soldiers were. He was infused as a baby by Ghast. The rest were made as adults by Hojo. While I'll admit his will was so strong he almost became the main enemy, I still see Jenova as that.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-29 22:00:22 »

So Sephiroth can copy his entire mind and plant it in a failed clone, using Jenova cells and the lifestream like wifi(while carrying chunks of Jenova cells only that project her). But the actual Jenova cells which caused Sephiroth to learn how to do this and behave like so can't do it on a very local scale with memories having to so with being in soldier first class only.

Just doesn't make sense.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-29 21:42:02 »

Yes, Jenova cells injected into humans allow their perceptions to alter their physical form. Sephiroth's sword skills and all his strength are probably stolen from the masters in Wutai he killed. Zack's strength is copied from Sephiroth's. But Cloud's is copied from Zack's.

Cloud: "I'm physically built like someone in SOLDIER. Hojo's plan to clone
Sephiroth wasn't that difficult. It was just the same procedure they use when
creating members of SOLDIER. You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to
Mako energy. Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells...... For
better or worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER. It has nothing to do with
Jenova Reunion. But weak people...... like me, get lost in the whole thing. The
combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will and my own weakness are
what created me. Everyone knew that. I'm...... Cloud. ......the master of my own
illusionary world. But I can't remain trapped in an illusion any more...... I'm
going to live my life without pretending."

Cloud should not have survived the procedure. The only reason he did, is because A)Shinra Moved and resealed Jenova B)Cloud managed to hurt Sephiroth and toss him into the lifestream for x amount of time until he made his way to the north C)Since Cloud copied Zack, instead of having Jenova/Sephiroth in his head, he had Jenova/Zack.

That's who's always talking to you when you pass out. A Zack copy made by Jenova being forced to pretend he's you but fighting her control. That's who Sephiroth attempts to use multiple times to control you. That's why you don't turn into a mindless black cloaked zombie, but also why Sephiroth is able to call him out to get you to hand over the black materia while your unaltered form attempts to stop it.

The true Zack and Aerith remove Jenova from Cloud and dump him in mideel. How else did you get away from Sephiroth and Jenova and the Reunion? How else do you again travel back into the lifestream and it does a similar memory repair/transfer between Cloud and Tifa to restore Cloud.

Materia is literally the "Knowledge and memories of the Ancients in crystalized form" which means mako is at least partially memories, and if thats true, then memories themselves are mako, and if a rudimentary technological government can figure out how to introduce mako by exposure. The dying mother of an evil planet thousands of years old well versed in magic can easily move mako between hosts.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-29 19:39:27 »

If the truth is Jenova still siphoned Zack's memories, then.... Well it's just absolutely unnecessary.

Yes, but we do know she siphoned his build at least for sure. That's why Cloud is confused, even though he realizes Jenova is messing with his mind making him think he's SOLDIER 1ST CLASS, he still has the body of one. But he doesn't care bout that, he's gonna fight for the planet etc.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-29 19:24:39 »

Sephiroth/Jenova exerting control over people with the cells in them happens yes - extracting memories from one person and feeding it to another? There's nothing in the original to suggest that is happening.

Multiple Sephiroth clones is exactly that. Sephiroth, with control of his large amount of Jenova cells(with? her consent) completely copies himself and imprints his consciousness on multiple other people with Jenova cells implanted.

Reunion is simply a calling between the cells. It's never said to be some kind of conscious process from the main cluster that would indicate it could rummage through people's memories, extract the pertinent ones for some grand plot and then feed them to Cloud.
It doesn't even make sense.
Why would Jenova enforce Cloud's delusion? What possible reason, at that point in the plot, would Jenova have to reshape Cloud's personality?
To accept that explanation of events, Jenova would have to be A.) capable of rummaging through Zack's memories after he is already dead, and then plant them in Cloud's head, and B.) she/it would have to have a reason to do that despite the fact that this conflicts with the narrative indicating that Jenova awakens in Shinra building when Cloud comes there (after all, if she was already awake, doing stuff like manipulating Cloud, why didn't she break out earlier?)

Reunion is a calling between Jenova cell injected humans, which does whatever necessary to modify their behavior to make sure they all end up at Jenova. The reason Jenova is trying to change Cloud into Zack is to make another strong hero like Sephiroth to then manipulate, just like him. He wasn't always evil, he was a war hero at one point.
A)Zack and Cloud were both injected with Jenova cells, which gave Cloud mako poisoning. From Jenova's lifestream energy. They then traveled together for a long time giving plenty of time for Jenova to attempt to rebuild Cloud like Zack. At which point Zack died, and Jenova transfered her focus from Zack to Cloud.
B) I don't think Jenova's all there anymore. Either mentally or physically or spiritually. Cloud had to take Jenova cells with her planets lifestream energy and give it "experiances" to grow, as Bugenhamen explains. Which reawakens her when you come near, which in turn allows Sephiroth to find her and use a horribly mangled Jenova host turned sephy pupa(probably another of hojo's experiments that broke out and hurt itself) to kill president Shinra and carry her away.

In the original, Cloud's mind is being messed with by Sephiroth's conscious efforts through the Jenova cells.
Since Sephiroth didn't have Cloud on his radar back when Cloud woke up in Midgar after Zack died, he wouldn't have done it either.

Jenova is the one who started all this when she sensed the cells in Sephiroth being ripe for harvest for lifestream energy and caused him to do what he did in Nibelhiem to get in close proximity with him. She's the one who fucked with his mind, though we never learn who she replaced his memories with. Though when he first starts going crazy he thinks he's an ancient, so maybe its based off of one of them that died when she tried to conquer them.

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-22 14:13:10 »

It doesn't seem that farfetched to me that President Shinra would have seen the experiment seeing as Hojo was just appointed by him, or at least getting a briefing with a file with both of their pictures, we do see them nonchalantly discussing "breeding" Aerith later. Not even to mention the place that the experiment took place was the SHINRA mansion.

For all we know Shinra just saw the pic of Tifa, Sephiroth and Zack after they replaced the town, and see's Zack's uniform/buster sword and mistakes him for him for a second. And then thinking back on the picture, regardless of if you are the extra soldier or not, he wouldn't remember your name too "unless you had become Sephiroth"

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General Discussion / Re: Why does President Shinra recognise Cloud at the reactor?

« on: 2017-03-22 07:08:39 »

Couldn't all this be explained by Shinra touring Hojo's lab while Cloud and Zack were being experimented on, before they escaped. Which would be why the president almost recognizes him, and why he (with parts of Zack's non zombie state memories) recognizes him back.

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7th Heaven / Black bar at bottom of the screen

« on: 2017-02-12 19:35:39 »

Hello, I've been a long time lurker that plays from time to time, and I just started playing again. I've downloaded and started playing again in the past few days, but I noticed that the game still has a black bar at the bottom of the game. I could have sworn Aali had fixed this in his driver, did I do something wrong, or am I remembering wrong?

P.S. Just incase the right person looks at this, what has been updated in the Gameplay - Difficulty and Story mod since yesterday?

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General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R03c)

« on: 2015-07-16 04:59:53 »

Yea he definitely says when you first get there that all the stables are taken, its only after meteor starts falling that people remove their reservations and he offers to house them, so its possible 4 are still in use by other people.

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General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R03c)

« on: 2015-07-16 04:50:27 »

If scamper doesn't work, maybe scram would?

Along those lines, I'm not sure where its said in the game, I think it may be Cid, but it says "complete rubbish." I think "complete nonsense"would work better with the american version.  Sorry I didnt write down exactly where it was, I'm pretty sure its on the airship and Clouds being defeatist. ><

Also, once you can breed chocobo's, Choco Bill says he can rent out 10 stables at 10,000 gil each in the once triggered dialogue, but when you choose the option to buy the stables he says 6 at 10,000 each. Now, I'm not completely sure about this one, technically there are 10 stables in the barn and he could just not be selling the other 4 to you. But I think for fluidity it should match the other text.

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General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R03c)

« on: 2015-07-04 19:05:33 »

Ok so it worked perfectly, just dropped the boom_a_00.png into reunion\magic and I used a slight blur to make it not so perfect.

I'm still not sure I have the movies in the right folder though, I'm using the 1998 version so it doesnt automatically create a folder for them, so I did myself at FFVII\data\movies.

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General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R03c)

« on: 2015-07-04 14:12:17 »

Yea I've found which mod(Avalanche Hi Res) has the .png in it and I think im gonna cut the resolution down a few notches so it doesnt look like 1080p in a miniHD 480p format and just replace the graphic, not the whole summon. The original just looks to jaggedy edged its one of the few things that stands out that remind me of the whole "They were just doing what they could with what they had while they were learning to make 3D games and make them fit on CD's"

I'll take a crack at getting it ig later, I think i need to convert it to .tex before I can add it to the LGP, unless with Aali's driver I can just put it somewhere in your reunion mod folder like I did with the minimum character portraits.

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General Discussion / Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R03c)

« on: 2015-07-04 13:14:10 »

I'm moving away from the new Menu Overhaul as of R04.  So that will be the last revision with updated graphics.  The new MO will be separate and discontinued..

I'll check this out.  It could be that he says "one other" because Red XIII stays back with him.  So you need to replace Red XIII with a new member.

I was talking about the Chocobo & Moguri summon, sorry if that was unclear. I'm not sure if its just the image that flashes on screen that was remade or the whole summon, but theres an upgraded version out there that I feel would fit in well with the original game like all the other models you've chosen.

I don't think he needs to show Nanaki the machine, im sure he's seen it before. Plus Nanaki's walking out of the room as Bugen is talking to you and isnt in your party afterwards.