Qhimm.com Forums
Project forums => Team Avalanche => Topic started by: Sapphire on 2014-07-25 04:59:54
-
So.... I accidently deleted my old model but I believe it was for the best. I've learnt a lot since I first started that and it needed to be redone anyway. Spoox randomly appeared on Skype the other day, I admired the work he posted on here and decided to once again remake it again. If I can get walkmeshes I will certainly work on some backgrounds.
(http://i.imgur.com/RTWc3UE.jpg)
Note to Moderators:
Please delete my old Midgar Remake thread.
-
Good to see you again, Sapphire! I'll be looking forward to seeing more of your work. As for getting the walkmesh, I suggest you ask SpooX about getting Shinratool (if you have PSX discs). If you don't have the PSX discs, we can always send you the 3ds scripts to generate them and then email them to you. Just let us know!
-
If I could get an email thrown my way that would be highly appreciated, I was a naughty boy when I was little so I was never allowed to buy video games, unfortunately the only copy of Final Fantasy 7 I have is a rented and burnt copy for the PSX, though to make up for it I did accidently purchase 2 copies of the re-released version on Steam :P.
-
Sure, I can get the maxscript of whatever scene you'd like to work on. I would suggest you start with a scene from a certain geographical area that nobody else is dealing with at the moment. Which environments are you interested in? This page (http://www.glitterberri.com/final-fantasy-vii/map-analysis/) can allow you to see them all easily.
-
Sorry, I had to format my computer again :P. Luckily I backed everything up though!
I agree I was thinking of doing Kalm.. If none of those are taken yet ofcourse.
Added the lights on the plates
(http://i.imgur.com/rWYQ3wP.jpg)
Old to New
(http://i.imgur.com/9o20avo.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/o154wJt.jpg)
Started to work on the Headquaters....
(http://i.imgur.com/68WtZaO.jpg)
I wasn't happy with the blockiness of my previous models so i'm using them as references, just a lot more detailed.
-
Note to Moderators:
Please delete my old Midgar Remake thread.
That's not going to happen, we love history :P
Hiya Saphire, indeed long time no see, and random appearences...well that seems to be part of me ;)
Oh and for the walkmeshes, I'm working on some improvements of the tool, I need to read out some lgp files and got that covered now.
So it should not be limited to the psx version anymore.
And something else I'm not going to tell about yet, but only available for max-users...
8-)
-
@SpooX: Shall I let you send Kalm's walkmeshes to Sapphire, or would you have me email him the maxscripts instead?
@Sapphire: Thanks for the updates on your progress, it's very promising
@Both: Have you considered merging your works for the intro FMV?
-
A PC-Version will be awesome, I own the Steam and Squaresoft Version so... Yeah :P.
Oh come on you, you gotta tell me!!
@Mayo Master, We did merge my old Midgar model with his but it didn't work out but I'm confident with my new version those problems should cease to exist now, I need to wait until spoox and I are on Skype at the same time to go into detail about it with him... He's rather stealthy.
(http://i.imgur.com/Y8PNCri.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xwfLTrm.jpg)
If anyone is interested in my modeling process.... I've made a little video for YouTube, shows a little of the model in real time too I guess. I'm very sick at the moment though so it's not great and I sound equally terrible sorry.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj5S9im6Ba0
-
Concrete to the max!!! :mrgreen:
-
Concrete to the max!!! :mrgreen:
It doesn't look as bad in a render as it does in the viewport.... :P I can throw up a render if you want 8-)
-
That was a compliment... ;) Nuke me with more radiation by those reactors!!! :evil:
-
That was a compliment... ;) Nuke me with more radiation by those reactors!!! :evil:
Does Mako produce radiation? :-o
-
I think all reactors do. Concrete produces radiation as well. But that was also a joke... duh! :?
-
@Sapphire
Could you make the handrail a bit smaller so it has just about the same dimension as they have in the battle scene? We could make the models for the field scene smaller too so everything will fit again.
-
@Mayo Master, We did merge my old Midgar model with his but it didn't work out but I'm confident with my new version those problems should cease to exist now, I need to wait until spoox and I are on Skype at the same time to go into detail about it with him... He's rather stealthy.
I'll be looking forward to it :)
Regarding you modelling: as far as the meshes are concerned, it's spot on. There can be some improvement regarding the texturing, although I do not feel like it is you main focus right now. Mostly: when everything is viewed at such a scale, concrete does look slick (the imperfections are so small that they're hardly visible), so I think it's best to tone down your bumpmapping. Take the stack of a nuclear power plant, as a reference. the texuring patterns is essentially the "seams" between concrete slabs. The other problem is that the tiling of your texture image does not match the way concrete slabs would have to be tiled to make the construction. Lastly, I believe you'll need to make considerable use of procedurals for texturing Midgar, since it's so huge (and procedurals have that distinct advantage of suiting any scale).
I think all reactors do. Concrete produces radiation as well. But that was also a joke... duh! :?
Let's be scientific for a minute (because that's my job). It all depends on what kind of radiation you're talking about, after all visible light is radiation. However, if you imply the type of radiations such as the one produced by nuclear fission (ie, gamma rays), then no. You won't have gamma rays except from nuclear fission.
As for mako energy, it shouldn't. Trying to applying scientific concepts to a fantasy world (and honestly, Hojo behaves like a psychotic chef, very unlike an actual scientist), and trying to get puzzle pieces from bits of conversation within the game, my assumption is that mako energy is completely clean (it does seem to produce radiations in the form of visible light, though). However it drains energy out of the environment, causing everything to decay, wither and die.
-
I could make the handrails smaller..... But that generates more work for me, I am particularly lazy 8-).
I slapped a random google texture on, white diffuse maps just didn't cut it in the renders, I'm not very good at texturing so don't expect to much from me :evil:. As for the tiling that's why I've gone into so much detail with indenting etc especially around the reactor base&top and the Reactor entrance bridge dividers, someone is always welcome to have a crack at texturing the beast though :mrgreen:
I blurred it to hide a little imperfection I know everyone would complain about :P
(http://i.imgur.com/C5DDA4T.jpg)
-
Regarding texturing: I'm afraid I don't know much about how it's done using 3ds, since I'm only familiar with Blender. However, I can give you the general idea of how I would do it, hoping it can provide some guideline:
1- Have lots of "fun" with UV unwrapping
2- Find a nice tileable texture of concrete (such as those from http://cgtextures.com/ (http://cgtextures.com/)). I recommend a texture which, during the "tiled preview", can feel as seamless as possible between tiles. Use that in the diffuse shader.
3- Get the concrete texture through a brightness enhancement node and use that as an input for the glossy.
4- Use the concrete texture as a base for a diffuse/glossy map (lighter: more glossy, darker: more diffuse). You'll probably have to manipulate the concrete texture a bit to get the right amounts of diffuse/glossy (in Blender I would use a color ramp node in order to cap min an max of the glossy/diffuse ratio).
5- In mapping the texture to your objects, scale it down considerably, so that the "tiled" look of the texture almost disappears
6- Export your UV of your object as an image (the image I'd expect is a white image with black lines corresponding to the edges of your mesh). Use that image as a bumpmap (you'll get the idea of many concrete slabs adjusted together).
7- Use many large scale procedurals (3ds must have these, right?) to create large scale non-uniformity in your textures. In Blender, I would multiply the texture image by a procedural before plugging it to the diffuse shader, and multiply my diffuse/glossy map by the same procedural before connecting it to the "Fac" input of the Mix shader (i.e. the input which controls how diffuse/glossy shaders are combined).
I hope that helps. Take it like a cooking recipe, you can always add your own spices to adjust it to your taste.
One last comment though: I think it is very important you get that texture right. I believe it's worth spending a lot of time experimenting, since in the end almost your whole scene will be using one texture (or one texture and derivatives). Unless you intend to hand the texturing job to SpooX :evil:
-
In 3ds max all nodes are connected to a single material editor slot.. Nice and easy 8), most values can be adjusted automatically from bitmaps or manually using scales from 0 to 1. I use VRay and there are specific rules for most VRay Materials..
It's 3:35 AM at the moment though and I stopped working on it some hours ago, time to sleep.. I hear my bed whispering my name :P.
I will have a browse through cgtextures when I wake up, maybe i'll have something for your viewing pleasure.
Thanks for the advice though, I'm always happy to par additional work off to Spoox... :evil:
-
Ok guys you can now officially forward this thread to MatPat... it would make a nice Game Theory episode... :D
-
Sorry guys, I have fallen ill again, I will not be updating this thread anytime soon.
-
I hope you get better man, Take some vitamin C and Zinc so you can boost that immune system! haha, joke aside i hope you recover soon.
-
Echinacea helps as well!!! :P
(http://i.imgur.com/ZUp4mpD.jpg)
-
Is this the one that will be used for the intro movie? Has anyone thought about rendering out new FMV's just in blocked in "lego" mode?
-
Like this (http://kotaku.com/5962234/heres-a-stunning-minecraft-re-creation-of-final-fantasy-viis-midgar)?
-
Like this (http://kotaku.com/5962234/heres-a-stunning-minecraft-re-creation-of-final-fantasy-viis-midgar)?
That is some serious dedication, impressive
-
Like this (http://kotaku.com/5962234/heres-a-stunning-minecraft-re-creation-of-final-fantasy-viis-midgar)?
That is insane. That person or people have to seriously be single without kids and theyre parents are rich so they don't have to work. oh my god
-
Is this the one that will be used for the intro movie? Has anyone thought about rendering out new FMV's just in blocked in "lego" mode?
Yes, the plan would be to combine Sapphire and SpooX's work to recreate the intro movie, ultimately. I'm not sure a lego mode FMV would do any good (the point is to supersede the original movies, which a lego mode FMV wouldn't really accomplish).
Like this (http://kotaku.com/5962234/heres-a-stunning-minecraft-re-creation-of-final-fantasy-viis-midgar)?
I'm not sure whether I should be impressed, or slightly creeped out.
Sorry guys, I have fallen ill again, I will not be updating this thread anytime soon.
Get well :)
If you could keep us posted on how you're doing and when you think you can get back to business, that would be much appreciated.
-
oh yes, we can do Lego mode...
(http://images.mocpages.com/user_images/20331/1258078590m_SPLASH.jpg)
but to fit a camera in there would be the challenge...
8-)
-
Like this (http://kotaku.com/5962234/heres-a-stunning-minecraft-re-creation-of-final-fantasy-viis-midgar)?
Hah, funny this came up... Have a look at my photobucket http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Killerx20/library/Minecraft%20Midgar
It was a project me and a friend made, I imported my models and rebuilt them from the ground up. This project has a lot more now since that article.
Also, this is what I just did today.. (http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e33/Killerx20/Midgar%20Renders/th_idk5_zpse57fd55b.jpg) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Killerx20/media/Midgar%20Renders/idk5_zpse57fd55b.jpg.html) Experimenting with the lights.. Sadly I don't really have much time to do this stuff anymore..
-
You are dope Sir!
-
That render looks almost complete? :)
-
Just been messing around with particles etc... Planning to do a Day-Night cycle render just to show off my model a bit...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5crXnmEQHno&feature=youtu.be
-
Hey Sapphire,
I was thinking that it would be great if you could check things out with Tom regarding his attempt to recreate the eleout scene. Namely, I believe it would be most useful if you could make a panoramic, equirectangular render of Midgar by night from the location featured in that scene - then he would be able to use the image as background and lighting source, with potentially awesome results :)
-
I tried to get in contact with Tom via personal messages but with no luck.
(http://i.imgur.com/wBxOCbp.jpg)
-
Well, he'll probably show up eventually. I was pretty much seeing how your work on the Midgar model could help in various fields.
There were also talks about trying to merge your model with SpooX's, has anything happened on that front? Maybe you should contact him about it (note that he's still discreet and stealthy :P )
-
We merged some of it together..... But that was my very very VERY old model. I also haven't seen SpooX for some months now, a lot of months. Occasionally I see him pop up on Skype but he doesn't hang around for very long at all.
In all honesty, I just want to dump my Midgar model to some like SpooX to use my assets and work on cutscenes or something so I can start on the backgrounds. I also still have no idea how to access the backgrounds for 3ds, I have a very old walkmesh dump from SpooX but the camera isn't in there so I can't work to any form of accuracy.
-
If you wish to work on backgrounds, you can use SpooX's Shinratool (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13875.0) to retrieve the walkmesh and the camera data, if you have the PSX discs. If you don't have the discs, I see two options:
- You PM SpooX about getting whichever field walkmesh and camera you'd like to work on
- I could use Shinratool and generate the corresponding 3ds scripts, which I could send to you. Then you would run the script in 3ds to generate the walkmesh and camera data (I don't have 3ds, myself).
Let me know how you'd like to work this out ;)
-
I have the original PSX disc but they are burnt copies heh :(.
Let me do some sloothing to see which one I can approach!
I would like to do.....
blin1 Shinra building Floor 1
blin2 Shinra building Floor 2
blin2_i Shinra building Floor 2 shop
blin3_1 Shinra building Floor 3
-
Just a small update.... Fixed a whole lot of scaling issues etc...
http://i.imgur.com/2so0vMY.jpg
-
Ohhhh! Nice!
-
Huh..
Now I wonder what can be found in these (never accessed in game) towers..
Seeing Midgar like that is impressive
-
Not a BIG update but......
http://i.imgur.com/HxjAQVY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/14kQalv.jpg
Wireframe....
http://i.imgur.com/xy0EsB8.jpg
-
Looking good, I wonder who will complete their model first. I imagine the challenging part is creating the stuff on the plates. Keep it up :mrgreen:
-
Thanks for the update :)
That looks very good. I like the details you have on the platforms and their girder arms :)
Let me know if you need a hand with materials. Looks like you'll need a humongous tileable concrete texture, which will have to be spiced with a couple of procedurals for good measure 8)
By the way, did the scripts I sent you for the walkmesh and camera work for you?
-
I always need help with materials, I just don't care enough about them to warrant doing anything about it heh.... I usually just render any scene I make in grey or white with ambient occlusion.
They sure did! Nothing to show yet though!
-
I'll do what I can to help you out with materials then. However, note that I actually do not know how they're created in 3ds (I only use blender), so if you could give me some heads-up about the workflow involved, that would be good.
SpooX and I agreed that materials are a big deal, it's the thing that will "level-up" your scene considerably. Generally I spend 3/4 of my modelling time on materials, while I actually prefer modelling the mesh, but that's what it takes. Thankfully, for your Midgar scenes, I believe you'll have relatively few materials to create, but I recommend you spend a great deal of time and care on the main ones, such as the basic construction material of the plate and the high buildings. In that respect, I suggest you try to document yourself (I can help out there, too) and see any reference image of Midgar by day light (I think most of these references may be in Advent Children, actually) to figure what kind of construction material you would have to replicate (steel? concrete? other?) and we can work from there. The particular challenge for your scene will be to create one material with very high resolution, lots of details, and little repetition due to tiling.
By the way, ambient occlusion bakes may be very useful in the creation of your materials. Do you know how to get them in 3ds?
Regarding the scripts, I'm glad they worked. Take your time about these scenes, you sure picked some very challenging ones. By the way, I believe that SpooX already create a number of elements which your scene could use, such as the SA-37 truck (http://www.flickr.com/photos/39897743@N05/6077242570/). We should try to make an incantation in order to attempt summoning his ghostly spirit :P
Oh, and if you would like the scripts for other scenes (maybe a couple of simpler ones which would take less time to recreate), don't hesitate to ask!
-
Midgar is mainly steel I beleive, concrete for the plates.
-
Yeah, that sounds about right. I've checked a few references (Advent Children shots, etc.), and indeed it looks like concerte for the bulk parts of the plate, with many structures are made of galvanized steel (like the reactors, the huge pipes, etc.). My guess is, by looking at this reference image (http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130223011617/finalfantasy/images/0/06/Midgar_FFVII_Concept_Art.jpg), the more "orange grey" structures correspond to concerte whereas the more "blue grey" structures correspond to galvanized steel. I'll do some scouting on cgtextures.com (http://cgtextures.com) (which I also recommend you do) and be back with suggestions.
-
Testing materials..... :)
(http://i.imgur.com/tGP6Bfj.jpg)
-
After a lot of time playing around with materials......... :mrgreen:
(http://i.imgur.com/dwnDAcR.jpg)
A little more dusk....
(https://scontent-nrt.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/t31.0-8/11072197_10203665977433976_3098641720296828402_o.jpg)
-
I can see some green energy around the reactors there! :P :P
-
I wanna see this in the opening cutscene so bad. Even just as a partial render haha.
Are you also modeling the inside of the shinra building?
-
If Killerx20 has the interior already modelled, I'm not entirely sure it would be worth spending the time to redo the same thing.
-
I'm not too fond of modeling interiors, I might just leave that to someone else.
I think i'm finally done tweaking the materials
(http://i.imgur.com/PJt9YbS.jpg)
-
I'm not too fond of modeling interiors, I might just leave that to someone else.
I think i'm finally done tweaking the materials
(http://i.imgur.com/PJt9YbS.jpg)
Is that metallic texture badly scaled, or it has the wrong pattern? It doesn't look right to me. Not very realistical for that cool Midgar City model. :-\
-
I actually have to agree with Artema here.
Here, the two main problems with your galvanized steel are:
- the scale is way to big
- it shouldn't have bumpmaping. If you want to create some non-uniformity on your reflections, I advise you use some kind of specular mapping.
Did you receive the documents I sent you by email regarding materials? I had been tackling these kind of issues and explained some principles of materials creation for galvanized steel and concrete. I'm afraid that creating materials is something you'll have to be very, very, very patient with (again, as a rule of thumb, 3/4 of my modelling time are actually spent on materials, while it's the 3d meshing that I prefer to do).
-
I'm not too fond of modeling interiors, I might just leave that to someone else.
Good morning ;D
forget the interiors, it's a waist of resources, especially if we want to use it for any animation. I did model the interior of the little restaurant in sector 8, with burning candles and a full kitchen....
Nobody is ever going to see that, so I finally trashed the place anyway. Just takes too much strain on rendering. It will only make sense if we have a sandbox environment with the total freedom to roam around Midgar. But that will take a different aproach and needs a lot of redisign anyway, so that is not in scope. ::)
About the materials, I'm personally more concerned about mapping, rather then the actual materials. If the mapping is not done correctly you have to revisit all objects in order to fix that. That is a nightmare, especially for the more complex objects. For mapping I would use a colored checkbox kind of texture, however if you don;t intend to do any texturing, I would advise to keep it 50% grey, that will give the best presentation result.
As for the textures and materials, most of Midgar is industrial, like steel, iron, rust, concrete. Abandonned trainyards come to mind, except for the normally growing plants and half covering trees and broken buildings. The Living part of Midgar is also including bricks, french coble roads, neon signs, etc.
And indeed, most time is being sucked into UV mapping and materials. :-( I prefer to model as well. Oh and lets not forget the rigging and animation, and the next part will be compositing of course.
Just keep up the good work.
Which version of Midgar are you on now 3 or 4?
Oh and make backups, and note where you stored the backups...
(that's just some personal advise as my total archive has become quite big over time)
8)
-
About the materials, I'm personally more concerned about mapping, rather then the actual materials. If the mapping is not done correctly you have to revisit all objects in order to fix that. That is a nightmare, especially for the more complex objects. For mapping I would use a colored checkbox kind of texture, however if you don;t intend to do any texturing, I would advise to keep it 50% grey, that will give the best presentation result.
For these buildings and structures, I agree that mapping is important. I think that mapping is very much linked to the process of making materials. The document I sent covers a good chunk about mapping, namely when I made an example for the concrete texture (for instance, when you want to convey the fact that a structure is made of concrete slabs).
-
You guys really prefer the clean style?
(http://i.imgur.com/WLqQw7c.jpg)
-
Nop, the dirty one is more realistic !
-
With all details (houses, streets,highways, etc.) the last will look better. The first looks more plastic but also like a small sized model of Midgar.
-
Maybe with a little dirt but not as much as in the previous screens.
-
I think somewhere between the two would be good. A bit of noise makes it look more realistic, otherwise it'll look more like plastic. Great work on this.
-
Hi Sapphire,
The way I usually go about making the materials is twofold: first, get a sense of how it should look like "clean", and then incorporate textures to make it look weathered. I think that now you got something pretty good for the clean base, which wasn't the case before.
There are 4 types of textures you can commonly use for incorporating weathering elements for outdoor stuff:
- Procedurals
- Ambient occlusion bakes
- A huge "random grime" image texture like this one (http://cgtextures.com/texview.php?id=72072&PHPSESSID=60flikhju7hif33sfk2k6u0a74) for moderate dirtiness. The texture I linked is pretty much the first one I found, so it takes a bit of search.
- "Leaking" grime textures, like this one (http://cgtextures.com/thumbnails/textures/metal/leaking/MetalLeaking0048_1_thumblarge.jpg) (although again, just an example), which are difficult to work with because you need very good UV-mapping to place the leaks at relevant places, but help give the best results.
The common way I use these texture is to "multiply" the original material with them to some degree, and I also multiply the texture of the specular map (the one controlling the diffuse/specular ratio). You may have to add a couple of brightness/contrast functions on the way to get the proper tone/shade of material in the end. But the overall result should give you darkened areas which are less reflective, following patterns which correspond to where grime would appear on building (using ambient occlusion bakes is a good help in that respect).