Author Topic: [FF7R] Remake Discussion & News  (Read 91768 times)

-Ric-

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #75 on: 2019-06-24 12:55:41 »
Welp, it's a huuuge missed opportunity to have a massive production team remaking FF7 legally, the "right(ish)" way, instead of creating FF7R: the DBZ-matrix-realism-crap reboot lol. Same with most of the other FF ports/remakes, instead here it's wasted by cheap and lazy production cycles. But, shrug, I don't really care, SE is pretty much a lost cause in the FF department as far as I'm concerned.

Whereas the cryers may cry, there are at least 10x as many who seemingly just loves whatever SE throws at them regarding FF7r. There are plenty of reaction vids out there with more cringeworthy statements to count.

Most remasters have been great actually. 10/10-2 look and play amazing on modern generations/PC and include all the international content that the original US release didn't, 12 is AMAZING since it not only includes the international's zodiac job system but it also includes many new additions. 3 for the DS/Android is a great game, 4 is absolutely amazing on the DS and even on Android especially since they went with a more difficult version. 7 plays great on PS4/switch and FF5 for Android is one of the best games I've played. Sure, some of the other ports have issues but most of them are good.

gjoerulv

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #76 on: 2019-06-24 15:40:11 »
Fair enough; aside from FF3 and 4 I can agree with you. The 3D versions of 3 and 4 are rather awkward imo, but admittedly it's 'cause of the style they chose. It feels more like, I dunno, pokemon games...  It may somewhat fit FF3, but personally, I still prefer the NES version. I couldn't recommend any of the original NES versions though. They haven't aged well, considering things like convenient features and those horrible encounter rates.

Kefka

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #77 on: 2019-06-24 17:54:06 »
My thoughts on the remake so far:

Graphics and presentation overall are top-notch, but that was to be expected anyway, seeing as those are the points that SE has been focusing on in all of their main FF games for the last 10 or so years while neglecting more important things like gameplay and story (cough*FFXIII*cough). The character design doesn't look half-bad, save for a few design choices that really left me scratching my head. I understand Tifa's bra, but why would Barret need sun glasses in a city where you can't even see the sky most of the time (the slums being below the plate)?

Anyway, on to the more important points:

The battle system: Personally I would've preferred the classic ATB system, so when they first announced an action-oriented combat system for the remake I felt quite disappointed. I'm not saying that action-based systems are bad in general, but they're simply not my style. Their recent announcement that you should be able to choose between action mode or turn-based mode does make me feel a LITTLE better, at least, but as others have said already, it'll all depend on how they implement that. I can hardly imagine having two different combat systems in one and the same game, so I'll remain sceptical about this one... unfortunately it's impossible to judge the battle system just from watching trailers, as you can't see which/how many buttons the player needs to press in order to perform the actions on screen.

As for the episodic release, that was perhaps the biggest bummer to me when I first heard about it, leaving me with the same questions that so many others have asked already: how are they going to handle level-ups? Or the World Map? Will there even be one? I cannot imagine FFVII without one, yet at the same time, I don't see SE coming up with a world map again, seeing as they've scrapped that idea even for FFXV where such a thing was originally planned. How will data transfer from one episode to the next be handled (not just stats, materia and items, but also treasure chests openend, sidequest completed, dialogue choices i.e. love points for the Gold Saucer date)? Will it be possible to revisit locations from earlier episodes? They very much need to be, seeing as most of discs 2 and 3 in the original consisted of revisiting former towns and dungeons again. But that would mean that all locations have to be present on every blue-ray, and if that's truly the case the very choice of making the remake episodic in the first place becomes... questionable...

Finally, about the 'believability' discussion: I can understand what DLPB means. On older consoles, battles in RPGs were meant to be merely symbolic and not to be taken seriously. There has always been a clear differentiation of what a character can do in a battle, and what he's capable of in 'field mode'. Every fictional world, despite being a fantasy universe only, still has to follow its own inherent rules to maintain credibility within its story. The characters in FFVII were always supposed to represent regular people like you and me, and while their physical capabilities may exceed those of others due to some of them being martial artists and/or having undergone military training, it never went out of control in the original game.

That changed with the Compilation, starting with Advent children: I've only watched AC once, but I still somewhat remember that battle against Bahamut in Midgar. The one that ends with Cloud jumping/getting thrown endlessly high up in the air (you can see the city of Midgar waaaayy down below), slicing Bahamut, and then dropping back to earth and landing on his feet... unhurt! And those are the kind of scenes that rob the universe and its characters of any credibility, for no one can seriously buy that Cloud would ever be able to pull something like that off. It goes against the very nature of the FFVII universe. Or did you never ask yourself: if the party characters were indeed capable of jumping that high, why did they ever bother to climb the floors of the Shinra headquarter by foot? According to AC, they should've been able to just jump from the building's entrance to the top floor and be done with it.

And that's the entire point of the believability discussion. The original game had established a clear set of 'rules' for the FFVII universe (most of which follow the same rules as the real world as far as human physical capabilities go), and AC started to violate those. The characters of the original weren't any godlike superhumans, as they've never displayed any such skills outside of battles. They couldn't jump up to the high voltage pole in Junon on their own, they needed a dolphin to help them. They couldn't just smash through walls in buildings, they had to take the doors. They were meant to be normal, albeit physically well-trained people. Yet AC started to turn them into Dragonball characters, something that simply doesn't fit into this game, and quite frankly has no place in it.

The bottom line is: Anything that happens in battles is there merely for the player's entertainment and has no bearing on the games' respective universe, save for scripted battles that are specifically designed for story purposes (e.g. Tellah getting killed by Golbez, Galuf getting killed by Exdeath, General Leo getting killed by Kefka etc.).

sithlord48

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #78 on: 2019-06-24 18:28:32 »
Quote

Did you miss the shitstorm that went down with the latest season of Game of Thrones?
I've never seen a single episode of Game of Thrones

gjoerulv

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #79 on: 2019-06-25 08:52:23 »
Spot on Kefka.

Judgment is still due on the battle system, but one can't deny that the "realism" style they go for, combined with what we've seen so far for the battle system, slaps said realism in its face. Who knows, maybe they'll somehow make it work with its internal logic... No, no they won't lol. It will look cool and all, but you have to leave logic aside in order to enjoy it. That's ok imo, as long as you admit it. That's what you do when you watch just about any mainstream action movie. One may enjoy it, but don't make excuses to try and make sense out of it.

What bothers me the most is not fan reactions, the realistic style or the fact that it will be an ARPG. It's the reasoning from the top-brass-devs in SE. Their reasoning has a very corporate ring to it, and are sometimes followed by leading, manipulative suggestions. Example: "It will be an ARPG, like one would expect." This kind of reasoning doesn't come from the passion of making a game. It's carefully considered reasoning that comes from a AAA company out for your moneh. Suddenly, since "one would expect" an ARPG, making it a traditional JRPG "would be a waste" for many. Its pure BS.

Yes, It's all fine that companies make money and creates opportunities and work for many, but I can still call BS on their sugar-coated statements.

Kefka

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #80 on: 2019-06-25 16:08:42 »
By the way, what are your thoughts on this specific point from the interview?

Famitsu - Nomura Interview. - More accurate translation

  • Nomura-san explains that the shadow that appears at the end of the latest trailer is something that has been added for the Remake. They are called "The Guardians of Destiny" (Unmei no Bannin 運命の番人, video) , and it’s a mysterious existence that appears in front of the party. He hopes that those who played the original game will enjoy these new elements.

"Guardians of Destiny"... if they're indeed what their name implies, then that would be a HUGE alteration to the entire FFVII universe, and not one for the better, I fear. So now there are some new higher beings/deities that control the characters' fate? Making sure they take a certain path in life? Like the Occuria from FFXII, or what? I must say, I'm honestly VERY worried about this...

sithlord48

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #81 on: 2019-06-25 16:21:21 »
Hey say what you want about Lucas but, his movies are holding up alot better then what disney has done since they got a hold of it and its only been a few years...

sithlord48

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #82 on: 2019-06-25 16:24:20 »
Idk that is completely fair to blame only him for crystal skull, he only co-wrote it. He wrote and directed ep 1-3 of star wars.

LordUrQuan

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #83 on: 2019-06-26 13:22:24 »
Idk that is completely fair to blame only him for crystal skull, he only co-wrote it. He wrote and directed ep 1-3 of star wars.

Phantom Menace
Anakin = 6 years old.
Padme = 20 years old.

Attack of the clones
Anakin = 25 years old.
Padme = 25 years old.

Anybody see a problem here?

Kaldarasha

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #84 on: 2019-06-26 15:31:20 »
Phantom Menace
Anakin = 6 years old.
Padme = 20 years old.

Attack of the clones
Anakin = 25 years old.
Padme = 25 years old.

Anybody see a problem here?

She lies about her age? Well she's not the first one. Or she did a lot of space travel.

LordUrQuan

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #85 on: 2019-06-26 16:56:29 »
She lies about her age? Well she's not the first one. Or she did a lot of space travel.
Not sure there is necessarily lying involved (unless she looks insanely good for 40 but if that's the case, why does Mon Mothma look like someone bordering on retirement?).  The only non-plot-destroying alternative would be that she's a really early bloomer and only 12 or 13 during TPM, while Anakin is really late and actually 10ish.  As I understand it, the whole "space travel keeps you young" thing only applies when traveling at relativistic speeds, which hyperspace isn't.

I think he means the casting of the actors too... it looks ridiculous.
It's just the whole plot hole aspect of it.  Anakin's supposed to be this cute (but very whiny) kid in tPM while Padme's probably out of the Naboo-equivalent of grad school, then suddenly they're close enough to be dating in AotC, and having kids in RotS?

As for actor casting, Hayden Christensen was stiff, but carried off the rebellious teenager well enough (though he just looks dumb being spliced into RotJ next to Alec Guinness' Ben Kenobi).  I actually like him as Anakin more than I do Adam Driver as Kylo Ren (maybe it's just the makeup; he reminds me too much of Alan Rickman's Professor Snape).  But just like Nicole Kidman, I'll never complain about seeing Natalie Portman on the screen. Waaaaaayyyy back in the deep dark days (I'm talking almost 20 years ago), there was even a NP fan club on my Earth and Beyond server, lead by none other than a total nutter named Screwdriver 8-)

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #86 on: 2019-06-27 14:29:16 »
"Speaking of costume design, Nomura-san explained that the team aimed for it to be quite realistic visually, taking real designs of clothes and accessories as reference. For instance, Tifa’s suspenders are inspired by real ones for military use, while her gloves reference those used for riding bikes and fighting. The body silhouette didn’t change from the original version, but the team has tried to improve such details."

Why did they do this? We do not want it to be realistic, we would want it to be like the original? It's named Final Fantasy VII - not Final Realistic VII.. In other words it's supposed to be a fantasy, and fantasy isn't realistic.. The original style of characters such as Jessie and Tifa were way superior. And i would choose that over realistic anyday.. If i'd wanted realistic i could look at a woman outside my window.

"Developers wanted Tifa to have visible abs, so they gave her the body style of an athlete. There were instructions from the internal ethics department, and it was decided to constrict her chest [Editor’s Note: the context and wording indicate clearly that this refers to the tightness and design of Tifa’s clothing, not to her chest size] so that it wouldn’t look unnatural even during fierce action. Therefore, the team created a design for her upper torso, with black underwear and a body-fitting tank top replacing the original simple one. It’s a sporty design inspired by fitness."

Unnatural is all fine in a fantasy.. Guess Final Fantasy ain't a fantasy anymore. The tightness and original clothing is what i enjoyed the most about Tifa.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-27 14:34:38 by mr_nygren »

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #87 on: 2019-06-27 14:52:20 »
"And that's precisely why the majority who loved the original game wanted it to be a proper remaster and not this awful modern hybrid tripe."

Yes, not a remaster with the old models.. A remaster with the PS4 graphics.

-Ric-

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #88 on: 2019-06-27 14:54:37 »
"And that's precisely why the majority who loved the original game wanted it to be a proper remaster and not this awful modern hybrid tripe."

Yes, not a remaster with the old models.. A remaster with the PS4 graphics.

Wrong. The LARGE majority of people are excited for the remake. The people crying their eyes out about it are definitely a small minority.

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #89 on: 2019-06-27 14:58:06 »
Wrong. The LARGE majority of people are excited for the remake. The people crying their eyes out about it are definitely a small minority.
If people could choose between FF7 original with PS4 graphics, and the FF7 Remake - they'd prefer the original with PS4 graphics.

-Ric-

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #90 on: 2019-06-27 14:58:57 »
If people could choose between FF7 original with PS4 graphics, and the FF7 Remake - they'd prefer the original with PS4 graphics.

Wrong again. Maybe some people, including you would choose that. I would not. neither would a ton of people. Pretty positive that if you made a poll with EVERY SINGLE human being that ever played FF7, the remake would win hands down.
« Last Edit: 2019-06-27 15:04:01 by -Ric- »

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #91 on: 2019-06-27 15:30:42 »
More terrible doesn't make Lucas' shambles good.  Not to mention Crystal Skull..... At least with Disney, you knew it was gonna be crap.  Their eyes were set on the money and merchandise they could sell from day 1.

I think Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, is the third best movie, the second best is Return of the Jedi (used to be number one when i were a kid) and the best one is Empire Strikes back.

So in my opinion A New Hope is worse than Revenge of the Sith, because it had sucky lightsaber battles - but it still is the most successful movie in the franchise because it were the first released.

Disney Star wars is just trash.. Destroyed by forced politics.

-Ric-

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #92 on: 2019-06-27 15:33:09 »
Ignore Ric, mr nygren.  He's not got any logic or understanding as to what made the original game good and even defended the latest season of GoT.

Wrong. The latest season sucked. Nowhere did I say otherwise.

He also likes trolling. 

I only troll stupid people.

You're right that most fans wanted this remake to be an update of the original.

You got 0 evidence to back that claim up. Again, maybe you two would want that. You have the right to your opinion. Don't claim to speak for "all" or even "most" fans though.

Some people are living in a dream world.

Correct, Mr. "MU IQ IS VERY HIGHHHH" "MUUUU IMDB REVIEWWWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSSSS".


Edit: Shite.

mr_nygren

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #93 on: 2019-06-27 16:36:03 »


I don't agree. It's your opinion to think so, but hear me out on this. Based upon what you're saying, Advent Children would have also catered to feminists, but almost 15 years ago before the identity politics of today's Western society came into fruition?

Square Enix is a Japanese company first and foremost, and Final Fantasy is their Japanese franchise. I've lived in Japan for long enough now to know that society here functions much differently than the Western world. All the identity representation [nonsense] currently thrown into Western media and entertainment...it's not here. Most Japanese people are ignorant to its existence, and those who may get a whiff of it from the internet, don't care enough to ever talk about it. Another fact is that the majority of the player base is male, and the Japanese gaming industry heavily favors male loving aesthetics. They don't tone down characters because feminist activists [whom don't exist in Japan] demanded it do so. Trust me on this one...it's not a feminist thing.

I personally don't mind the new look they've given, but still enjoy the original the best. The changes themselves at least match pretty well. Barret with sunglasses though? That one will take awhile to grow on me.

This is my take as well. And we know it's a good system seeing how the Hardcore mod and New Threat have shown us what could have been developed instead.


I don't agree. It's your opinion to think so, but hear me out on this. Based upon what you're saying, Advent Children would have also catered to feminists, but almost 15 years ago before the identity politics of today's Western society came into fruition?

Square Enix is a Japanese company first and foremost, and Final Fantasy is their Japanese franchise. I've lived in Japan for long enough now to know that society here functions much differently than the Western world. All the identity representation [nonsense] currently thrown into Western media and entertainment...it's not here. Most Japanese people are ignorant to its existence, and those who may get a whiff of it from the internet, don't care enough to ever talk about it. Another fact is that the majority of the player base is male, and the Japanese gaming industry heavily favors male loving aesthetics. They don't tone down characters because feminist activists [whom don't exist in Japan] demanded it do so. Trust me on this one...it's not a feminist thing.

I personally don't mind the new look they've given, but still enjoy the original the best. The changes themselves at least match pretty well. Barret with sunglasses though? That one will take awhile to grow on me.

This is my take as well. And we know it's a good system seeing how the Hardcore mod and New Threat have shown us what could have been developed instead.

Hey Eq2Alyza, you brought up Advent Children, but i had forgotten that Advent Children did portray Tifa right in the "earlier history" scene - and FF Dissidia Duodecim 12 also had a Tifa with the original style. If Advent Children and Dissidia duodecim 12 could keep the style, why not the remake? The breast-size were lowered in those as well - and that is fine! (It were outrageous in the original FMV's).. But, giving her stockings and changing her skirt, the tightness of her top etc - that is simply heresy.

Advent Children Tifa with the original clothing looks way better than the new.



Tifa in Final Fantasy VII Dissidia was perfect, it had better clothing than the new:



Tifa in the new Dissidia is perfect, but the Remake has a better face to be honest - replace the body with this though:


« Last Edit: 2019-06-27 16:47:31 by mr_nygren »

LordUrQuan

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #94 on: 2019-06-27 17:12:55 »
Has nobody ever heard of "Crap, I forgot to do the laundry, guess I'll have to wear this old thing?"

Kaldarasha

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #95 on: 2019-06-27 17:49:22 »
Phew, did actually someone take into account that a lot more girls are playing video games today and not only horny little nerds as back then? Her huge breast is unethical because it doesn't reflect the reality and leads to wrong expectings. The game is made for the masses and not only for the horny little nerds like some animie. That's also the reason why she wears a bit more, which is fine to me, because all the skimpy outfits do look very unpractical for combat. They found a good compromise but thier mistake is not to explain why they changed it and which thoughts they had for it. But maybe they use it as a kind of commercial.

Bynyl

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #96 on: 2019-06-27 20:36:43 »
SE wants to tone her down because SE wants to tone her down. Hasn't it always been the case that companies restrict creative freedom to ensure their bottom line is not affected? Gaming is not the only industry where outrage happens, Elvis or The Beatles come to mind, it's nothing new; if anything, censorship in gaming is less prominent now than it was in the 90's (well, maybe not in japan). Just look at Platinum Games or the stuff Destructive Creations puts out.

I personally don't really mind the redesign, I don't think that changes like these can really be telling of how they are handling the remake, we are only gonna know for sure when it finally comes out. And when it does, I think it would be fair to judge it by it's own merits and not compare it too much to the original, even if it's a remake; a lot of people who play this will not have played the 1997 game anyway.

-Ric-

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #97 on: 2019-06-27 21:36:51 »
I personally don't really mind the redesign, I don't think that changes like these can really be telling of how they are handling the remake, we are only gonna know for sure when it finally comes out. And when it does, I think it would be fair to judge it by it's own merits and not compare it too much to the original, even if it's a remake; a lot of people who play this will not have played the 1997 game anyway.

Facts.

Bynyl

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #98 on: 2019-06-28 00:00:08 »
I didn't say we shouldn't compare it to the original, maybe I worded this the wrong way. My point was that we should keep in mind that the games are very different and we should be careful when deciding the criteria by which the remake would be "inferior" or otherwise to the original. For example I really don't think the battle system of the Remake should be compared to the ATB system, they are too different, it should be judged on it's own if it ends up being good or bad, because comparing it to the original it will most likely be bad even if it ends up being fun.

Being inferior to the original doesn't necessarily mean it will be bad, and if it's not bad then there's no reason not to enjoy it. We'll know when it's released of course.

It's not like I think it will be exactly great either though, some of the things said about the Remake by the devs do worry me, like how they don't seem to know how many episodes it will end up being, that screams bad preproduction to me.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
« Reply #99 on: 2019-06-28 04:39:38 »
I don't understand the argument...

Which do you like better? FF7 or FF8?

Which do you like better? FF7 or FF7:R?

How do you answer either of those questions without comparing them?