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Final Fantasy Forums => Gameplay Mods => Gameplay Releases => Topic started by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-17 19:10:35

Title: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-17 19:10:35
[New Threat Mod v1.5]

NT 1.5 Build Download
[12th September 2017]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/nbn7mzi8rk6y4bx/NT%201.5%20Build%20-%2012th%20September%202017.zip
Stand-alone Installer For the PC version of FF7 (1998/2012/Steam)

7H IRO Version
[12th September 2017]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/47ph4g1cb915x19/FF7_NT_1.5_-_17th_September_2017.iro
NOTE: Specifically for use with the mod-loader program 7th Heaven (7H).
For more information, check out the 7H thread found here:
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15520.0



Donations
I mean, if you feel like it. (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=4NQDGBN7KYLLW)


Hotfix Patches
The Hotfix patches update current installations to the latest version of the files, repairing bugs and issues found in the mod.
Note that these are for the Stand-alone installer only and should not be used if the 7H IRO version is being played.


NT 1.5 Scene/Enemy Hotfix
[12th September 2017]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/nzb9dp7p8ddv9hj/NT%20Mod%20HotFix%20Scene%20-%202nd%20September%202017.zip
Average size: 700KB
Fixes/Features:
-) Triple AP growth missing from some weapons
-) Venus Gospel, Drain HP flag
-) KOTR attack name fix (may appear slightly off-centre; best I could do)
-) Jormungandr EXP/AP/Gil values fixed & Frog removed from attacks

NT 1.5 Flevel/Script Hotfix
[12th September 2017]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/6welehwlkyl4g4a/NT%20Mod%20HotFix%20flevel%2012th%20September%202017.zip

Average Size: 110MB
Fixes/Features
-) Disc Change in Dark Cave
-) Softlock when talking to Caith Sith at Temple Ruins on Disc 3
-) Elmyra appearing in Kalm under wrong conditions
-) Trigger for Demons Gate (Arrange Mode)
-) Wrong triggers for Pillar in Dark Cave (game moment 1998 instead of 1620)
-) Various text alignment problems
-) Rank Up option fixed on 3rd NPC in Temple of the Ancients
-) Adds Arrange Field Flag toggle to Debug NPC
-) Removes Flag toggle from Palmer fight
-) PHS fixed on Aeris Switch
-) Fixed old text on Midgar Raid Save Point
-) Misaligned text on Shinra Floor 66
-) Observatory Scene fixes
-) Old innate text removed from Highwind
-) Corel Train now awards an early Planet Materia
-) Yahcobo placed with Kalm Traveler
-) Fixed wrong NPC loading in Cloud's Memory scenes
-) Arrange Mode: Bottomswell replacement boss fixed


-Information-

Hello, and welcome to the New Threat Mod. It's sometimes called 'The Threat' Mod because people think it's a new version of an older mod.
This is not the case. Let's just call it NT.

This mod aims for a reasonable but fast-paced level of difficulty, something that can be played seriously or for fun and which offers a lot of
new content to discover. Bosses and enemies have been revised and a bunch of new ones were added as well. There are also extensive
script edits that allow for the use of different party leaders on Disc 3, some restored scenes that were deleted or bugged, additional side-quests,
and a range of optional QoL changes like cutscene skips, additional save points & merchants, and other conveniences to ease gameplay.

Finally, there's always scope to expand the mod and add additional content. If you have any suggestions for things you'd like to see in the mod,
within reason, then let me know and I'll see what I can do. There are also bugs and problems that can pop up so be sure to let me know and to
provide additional information such as where you were and what you were doing when the bug occurred. For more information about the mod's
features and the changes made to equipment, spells, and items, check out the ReadMe file toward the top of this post. Hope you enjoy the mod!


Installation

Installation is relatively straight-forward and covered in the linked video:
1) Download the patcher
2) Extract the patcher
3) Locate the Data folder inside the FF7 folder; make a backup of this folder.
4) Run the patcher as admin and specify the game's 'Data' folder for installation.
5) Run the game and select New Game; a message should appear confirming NT installation

For the 7H version, you will need a modified FF7 installation that uses the mod loader: 7th Heaven
1) Download the IRO
2) Start 7H and navigate to the Library tab; click 'Import'
3) From the window that appears, select 'From IRO Archive and select the NT IRO
4) Activate the imported mod just like you would with a catalog mod
5) Remember to check your mod load order before playing


Installation Video

Install Tutorial Video: http://youtu.be/4dOqfeJQPeo
[Note: Installation method is identical across all versions]


-Thanks to:-
Borde: Kimera & Img2TEX tools
NFITC1: Wall Market & Proud Clod tools
Myst6re: Makou Reactor tool
Aali: LGP/UNLGP tool
Luksy: ULGP tool
EQ2Alyza: For putting together the 7H Version and helping with troubleshooting
DLPB: For helping out with inner workings of the game + Ochu tool for testing
RedManMark86: For helping folk set up the NT Mod to make it compatible with other mods
TenkoKuugen: For giving me valuable info to set up a custom .EXE for the mod
Kalderasha: For 7H support + those snazzy new field models
UltimaEspio: For donating Disc2/3 Aeris animations from her mod
Bosola: OP Code Sheet + Damage Calculator
Gjoerulv: For rekindling my interest in this game with his Hardcore mod
Neurosephiroth: For providing invaluable bug reports in v1.0.5
RagingFlare: For posting a playthrough of the mod and turning up more bugs and issues to be fixed
LetCreativityPlay: For providing bug reports, feedback, and video footage for v1.1 & v1.2
FFMan: Also for providing bug reports and feedback on v1.1
PotatoHandle: For providing bug reports, feedback, and video footage for v1.2
Loseless: For advanced beta testing, prototype testing, and helping me balance the 1.2 version
Cicadian: For streaming 1.3 and providing valuable feedback
Bowser9: For 1.2 & 1.3 feedback, and helping folk out with battle tactics and the like
ID Forums: For being very supportive of the mod and being a real colourful bunch
Xerokynos: For revealing the abject poverty inherent in the original release
TheStrahl: For his great ideas of 1 second bomb timers
Karifean: For donating a boss from his Boss Rush mod - you can find his mod here on the forum: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14937.0
Cloudiar: For permission to use his idea for a Yuffie recruitment event in Kalm
Genesis063: For also donating a boss from his mod, which was used for the Dark Cave sidequest - his Sephiroth story mod can be found here: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15156.0
HeaN: For making a generous donation and giving encouragement (though I'm arguing that the mod still needs some balance tweaks :p); thanks, bud
For Donators: I really appreciate the generosity that's been shown, I'll pay it back by making sure NT continues to grow and improve; thanks to all of you
And to you, the player, for giving this mod a chance

And my buddy TheCatcher: For patiently listening to my mod-related tripe all these years.
Title: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-21 13:39:08
Hi folks, I tried to release a gameplay mod on the releases thread a few days ago but it's been locked to wait for moderator approval (damn you, due process). So figured I'd try and drum up some early interest in the meantime. Got a full(ish) list of what the mod does and it's features in this manual here: http://www.mediafire.com/download/dzbq6cqq2c27ard/FF7+NT+Manual.doc

Features that might be of interest are;
-) 100+ new bosses and enemies, with every story boss given a new set of moves and AI
-) About 40 or so 'unique' models made for enemies using in-game monster parts; we got a robot dragon in there somewhere
-) Quick but rewarding random encounters coupled with longer tougher boss fights
-) An Extra Battle added to the Battle Square that's a bit like the Monster Arena in FFX
-) Some new thingies like extra save points, merchants, and the option to skip the lengthier cutscenes and flashback sequences to make the game go by a bit smoother
-) Extra end-game boss fights to unlock Lv4 Limits and Ultimate Weapons as well as the option to change party leaders from the Operations Room once the party has reached the bottom of North Cave (or North Cavity as the cool kids are saying nowadays)
-) Fixed the age-old 'perfect game' dilemma of whether to use the third battery or not

It's been played by a couple of people who said they were enjoying it. So that's something. If anyone's interested in giving this mod a go then the download links for it are in the video description for this tutorial on the mod's installation: http://youtu.be/VsJnt1eRw7g

Any feedback on how to improve balance or bug reports for technical issues is always welcome.
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Covarr on 2014-01-21 14:11:09
We don't have a formal mod approval process. However, our forum software requires threads with more than a certain number of links in the OP to be approved. Unfortunately, these threads don't show up if you click "Show unread posts since last visit" like I usually do, so I don't always notice 'em.

If a mod release thread (or anything else that isn't spam) ever ends up in approval limbo, feel free to send me a PM and I'll take care of it. This goes for everyone.
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: bobby678 on 2014-01-21 14:47:24
Hey

will this mod make ff7 10 times more harder now to beat
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-21 14:55:15
We don't have a formal mod approval process. However, our forum software requires threads with more than a certain number of links in the OP to be approved. Unfortunately, these threads don't show up if you click "Show unread posts since last visit" like I usually do, so I don't always notice 'em.

If a mod release thread (or anything else that isn't spam) ever ends up in approval limbo, feel free to send me a PM and I'll take care of it. This goes for everyone.

So that's what happened to it; cheers for the info, Covarr!

Hey

will this mod make ff7 10 times more harder now to beat

Sadly, it'll only make the game nine times harder to beat. But for next release, we're hoping to push that up to 9.2x. The idea wasn't to make a Hardcore-difficulty mod though, I was aiming for a more reasonable level of difficulty (but that mod name was taken; all the good descriptive names have been taken).

I've noticed you've had difficulty installing other mods on here, though. I recommend making a fresh installation of the game, and then to watch and follow the video tutorial I made (put the video on 1080HD and watch in full screen to make the text sharp enough to read). Remember that in the video the 1998 version is patched first. I patch the Steam version right after that so if you own the Steam version follow that part of the tutorial only. And make sure to download the correct patch; there's one for the original 1998 FF7 release and one for the FF7 Steam release.
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-01-22 11:36:44
Alright I have made a test play (not very far but enough for an overview).
First thing, please find another way to patch the flevel.lgp. I fear that many people like to use the Reunion mod and your overhaul will overwrite it (however using the Reunion after it should work with a few errors I guess). Luksy has written a tool for flevel patching, but I don't know how it works.
The next thing is the difficult, using status effects at the very beginning without a way to avoid these is unrewarding. The eyedrops are useless, because in the next turn of the enemy's, they will make one of the character blind again. A ten percent hit chance or a lesser use of them would be a bit fairer. But I wouldn't use those things until I give the player a way to avoid those, anyway. A success because of good planning feels better rather then trying to survive a situation.
I also don't understand why a simple MP can deal more damage as a 1. Class Soldier (or a successful Sephiroth copy). It is elemental for the story to show Cloud super strong. Over all I wouldn't start this game this hard, the new AI is great, but 2x tougher as the original should be enough for the start. You can rise the difficult up after the player get access to the first shop. Speaking of the start, skipping the intro movie prevents the music to play at the beginning, it will play after the first battle, but it's odd to have no music for the intro scene.

At bottom line: it is a great hardcore mod, if it would be reasonable then Cloud wouldn't stand in the back row by default.  :wink:
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-22 14:11:20
Cheers for the feedback, Kaldarasha. I'll add it to my notes but as far as flevel patching goes there's a lot of new code in certain fields to handle new fight triggers, item placements, some NPC replacements (Young Cid was replaced with a new field model so I've used 'old' Cid in the scenes where young Cid appears) and the party leader swap thing I added in which needed a mountain of code in the end. It will work with the reunion mod applied on top of it, but a good chunk of the mod will be 'missing' and certain items like Cosmo Memory might not be possible to obtain; there's also the danger of running into back-attacks and pincer attacks which were mostly removed from this mod, as well as certain formations being used for bosses later on. If you're playing with the Reunion patch on top, then I can't guarantee that the NT mod won't do something ridiculous. I'll look into Luksy's flevel patcher though and see what can be done.

I think I put eye-drops and antidotes in as drops more for use against the Scorpion boss who uses darkness and poison in his attacks, which I felt were slow enough in-between Scopes to get some use out of them. A reduced percentage for these statuses to be inflicted would probably make these items much more useful in regular fights though so I'll probably implement that across the entire mod for the next version of it; I'm reviewing all the status-inflicting attacks soon to get rid of the bad combos like Slow + Paralysis and move those to much later in the game or remove them entirely.

About the MPs vs. Sephiroth copy, that's a story-side thing and I was focusing more on the gameplay side of things. The idea of the first fight was to make a scenario where the player would have to use a potion/use magic or at the very least not be able to just breeze through the fight. That way, I can quickly get the message across to the player that they might need to make use of things that ordinarily they wouldn't have needed to use to make it through each area. I've found that it's easy to fall into old habits with this game, and with a difficulty mod you need to try and instill versatility into the player's approach as quickly as possible. I was watching a stream where someone was playing the mod and what I saw was that they were just using the attack command; they weren't healing with items or using spells, and they wouldn't run from a fight if it was going badly. That's why the the first fight is the way it is. Doesn't make sense from a story perspective maybe, but most RPGs cause that kind of issue with their leveling system; if that rabbit with a carrot-sword in the Icicle Area happened to wander into Midgar it'd probably bring down Shinra overnight.

The opening movie skip is a bit buggy. I had to remove it from the Steam version because it caused an unknown crash when the first fight started up and for the 1998 I've been trying to figure out how to get around the no music problem. I even had to remove the two potions from the guards because that caused a soft-lock when the skip was wrote in. It's likely I'll remove that particular skip altogether unless I can make it a little more stable because I imagine a lot of players would use it and it's not a great first impression to start the game in complete silence.

At bottom line: it is a great hardcore mod, if it would be reasonable then Cloud wouldn't stand in the back row by default.  :wink:

That is a good point. I'm trying to avoid calling it a Hardcore mod though because there's already one of those (the reason I made this mod was because I enjoyed the Hardcore mod so much). Because back row and front row is probably one of the more broken aspects of the game (an essentially free 50% reduction in physical attacks is crazy) I specced all enemy physical attacks with a back row party in mind and then gave the player early access to a Long-Range Materia to encourage the player to stay in the back-row. I'll maybe rewrite the bit I said this was a reasonable difficulty mod; don't know what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-01-22 15:37:12
One last thing I forgot, rise up the amount of use of limit attacks to get the next limit. I'm not sure, but 5x more uses and kills should be fine. I would also modify the HP which a Potion restores, 100 is to less 200 or 300 would be good. In return you could should reduce the droprate for them and give later access Hi-Potions (which should restore 1000HP).

The Reunion will work. Toughscript will only skip fields, which have more/lesser windows as the original game has. But I haven't test it right now, I'm currently busy to look through your Kernel.   :D
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-22 16:36:56
Ah, I see. Giving it a thorough look, eh? If you find 'the secret', make sure to keep it under wraps, eh? It can't stay a secret forever but it'd be a nice surprise for folk to find (and I'm gonna say now that it was coded from scratch, I wanted it to be unique so I didn't use any other mod's flevel as a point of reference).

For limit breaks [could've sworn you mentioned making it take longer to learn limit breaks, did you edit your post?], I boosted the amount of damage a character needs to take in order the fill the limit bar for each limit (with the exception of Vincent, who has all three transformations on the first three limit levels; the difference between them is how quickly they fill. The first limit level fills quickly while the third takes an age to fill; it's so players can free up Vincent's attack commands if they don't want to use his limit breaks for a particular fight).

But I'm hesitant to boost the number of kills needed to get to the next limit level for each character because limit-grinding is quite common from what I've seen and I can see people actually just grinding for longer to learn them which would leave them overlevelled. I had a draft .exe where the limit breaks had been directly changed but I left it out in the end; I figured it'd be too incompatible. Is it a good idea to bring an .exe side to the mod or would that cause too many problems with other mods?

The drop-rate for potions is very high in the first two reactors because it's possible to become stuck if the player runs out of healing items/MP. I think out of Midgar the item drops become a bit rarer; I was having issues with glitched items on certain enemies as well so in some cases the item drop list was filled up using ProudClodFinal to avoid the problem. I'll consider fixing up the amount of HP they recover, and I was meaning to add a cure for Dual-Drain to Antidote's effect (Poisona already has this) to make them more useful. Maiden's Kiss was also changed to recover Berserk and Confuse while Cornucopia now recovers both Mini and Frog.

That sounds good about it being compatible with Reunion; I'll have another look at Touphscript. Thanks for all this feedback, Kalderasha!
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-01-22 18:47:59

I have tested the idea with the potion set to 300 and it works pretty well, now I have more time to start some attacks, but I still need much potions.
The new scorpion is awesome ... was really a surprise.
Btw. are you patching the char.lgp? This might be a problem with the Reunion, but I guess I will update my mod with the model selection of the Reunion to make it compatible.
I really looking forward to this mod.  :-D
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: luksy on 2014-01-22 20:50:37
Just a FYI the patcher doesn't do anything yet, but it should be ready soon enough and I'll make sure to make it easier to understand.
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-22 22:53:50
Btw. are you patching the char.lgp? This might be a problem with the Reunion, but I guess I will update my mod with the model selection of the Reunion to make it compatible.

There's only two new field models to account for in the char.lgp and they appear for an optional encounter in Nibelheim, in the Whirlwind Maze, and on the Highwind's chocobo bay (replacing the Wutai Corneo Ninja and Young Cid); I could just remove them and use something else for the next version instead if that's easier. The rest of the changes are just to synch certain field models up with their new battle colours and aren't that important.

If you've tested the potions and found them to offer more utility at 300HP then I'll implement that for the updated version with all the other fixes/balances which I'll cobble together in a week or so once the early players have advanced a little bit further and delivered more error reports and feedback (one's just cleared Corel Prison). I was thinking of making the Materia function available earlier, or giving Cloud a Cure Materia on top of Fire, Ice, and Bolt; that'd solve a potion crisis and the player would have two Cure Materia for the game (which is very useful to have).

Glad you liked the scorpion by the way, there's a fair few more surprises like that in the mod.  :wink:

Just a FYI the patcher doesn't do anything yet, but it should be ready soon enough and I'll make sure to make it easier to understand.

Sounds good, looking forward to seeing it. I've been wanting to give that Reunion mod a proper go but I'm waiting on the Weapon side of things to be finished, and maybe the Iscar too. Should be interesting to see how certain story scenes pan out with a human character.
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: bobby678 on 2014-01-22 23:03:19
Hey sega chief

I have a neat request to add please

my request is if you could in a option that allows to choose sephiroth or cloud for 2 different story plots

thanks
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0
Post by: Covarr on 2014-01-22 23:09:54
I take it nobody noticed that I approved Sega Chief's mod thread? Anyway, I did a few days ago. And I merged the two threads just now, so if this seems a mess, that's why. ~Covarr
Title: Re: Releasing a Mod
Post by: cmh175 on 2014-01-23 00:06:45
Hey sega chief

I have a neat request to add please

my request is if you could in a option that allows to choose sephiroth or cloud for 2 different story plots

thanks

Full side quests are possible to do but require a lot of work since they're mainly made from scratch and still have to fit into the game without disrupting the normal games event triggers. Something like that probably wouldn't be compatible with the Reunion either.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-23 01:50:36
Hey sega chief

I have a neat request to add please

my request is if you could in a option that allows to choose sephiroth or cloud for 2 different story plots

thanks

That'd take an age to make I'm afraid, buddy. The mod isn't complete just now and there's some stability issues popping up that need to be fixed first (someone tonight found that the piano is unplayable when Cloud reaches Nibelheim and that there's a crash on Lost Number's physical form so those'll be fixed tonight and a new patch is going up). I'm fairly sure I saw other mods that put Sephiroth in the leading role, though. Maybe they'd be what you're looking for?

I take it nobody noticed that I approved Sega Chief's mod thread? Anyway, I did a few days ago. And I merged the two threads just now, so if this seems a mess, that's why. ~Covarr

Yeah, cheers Covarr; this poor release thread was getting all lonely and neglected.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.2
Post by: bobby678 on 2014-01-23 09:34:11
Hey

is the 1998 version of ff7, the steam version

or is that a different version all together

and is the 1998 version of ff7 on this threat mod, fully playable

thanks



is this mod 100% fully playable now



I am very scared of this mod

incase it gives me huge grapic glitches on it

I went ahead and merged your posts for you. In the future, please don't triple post, especially in the same day. If you have something to add, use the edit button. ~Covarr
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.2
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-23 13:41:32
is the 1998 version of ff7, the steam version
or is that a different version all together
and is the 1998 version of ff7 on this threat mod, fully playable

This mod works with both versions of FF7. The 1998 version is the old release that uses discs and has a lot of fundamental issues so it needs things like official patches, Aali's graphic's driver etc. The Steam version is much more functional, and doesn't require any special work to be done to it. If you own the Steam version of FF7, then download and use the Steam Patch. If you own an older copy of FF7, then use the 1998 patch instead. I recommend uninstalling and then re-installing the game first. There's a video tutorial you can follow on how to apply these patches here: http://youtu.be/VsJnt1eRw7g  Note that in this video I show how to apply the 1998 patch first, and then I show how to apply the Steam patch.

is this mod 100% fully playable now
I am very scared of this mod
incase it gives me huge grapic glitches on it

The mod is playable; I completed a playthrough of it but there will be glitches and bugs I didn't find during this playthrough. There shouldn't be any graphical glitches though. If you experience severe graphical glitches then it might be something to do with either your PC or the way the game has been installed. I recommend uninstalling FF7 and then re-installing it just to make sure that it's a clean install.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.2
Post by: bobby678 on 2014-01-23 16:11:41
Hey sega Chief

The first boss battle after you get the restore materia on the very first start of this game

is very impoissable to beat, because the enemys are way to strong

and the random encounters are way to hard to beat at the start of the game as well

and can you remove the 20 minute timer on the guard scropion boss battle please

its making me real nervous that i won't win the battle in time

and its tail laser kicked cloud out of battle as well
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.2
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-23 17:53:03
The first boss battle after you get the restore materia on the very first start of this game
is very impoissable to beat, because the enemys are way to strong
and the random encounters are way to hard to beat at the start of the game as well

I disagree, the regular enemies are fairly simple to beat but you have to make proper use of your spells and items. You can kill most enemies except Sweeper with a single spell (Ice is effective against Grunts), and the drop-rate for items is very high to keep the player supplied. If you try and go into fights and use nothing but the attack command you'll likely be overwhelmed.  I also provided the player with enough starting items to push straight onto the Reactor Boss so that no grinding is required. The new mini-boss on the Restore Materia requires a little strategy; you should focus attacks on one Engineer at a time, then go after the Sweeper. A single grenade will kill an Engineer if you have any otherwise a spell followed by an attack will likely do the job.

and can you remove the 20 minute timer on the guard scropion boss battle please
its making me real nervous that i won't win the battle in time
and its tail laser kicked cloud out of battle as well

As for the countdown, I'm not removing it. There's plenty of time to beat both Scorpion fights and even take on a few random encounters along the way (and have five minutes to spare) with a 'no-grind' team, that is I tested it by running through the reactor without stopping to farm for items or level up my characters. And because this mod is for experienced players who know the game and the enemies, I made it so that avoiding Scorpion's Tail Laser counter-attack is a necessity as it'll knock a character out of the battle and make it much harder to win. Scorp will raise his tail usually after two attacks so plan ahead and play it safe.

-UPDATE-
I've uploaded a video guide of getting through the first Reactor, should hopefully serve as a visual guide and as a trailer of sorts for people interested in the mod: http://youtu.be/dXZMhIOfzlc
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: bobby678 on 2014-01-24 21:14:24
Hey sega chief

I would like to request to see if you could add in a

boss rush mode on this mod, so after people this game, the boss rush mode will be added under new game and continue

thanks
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-25 02:50:55
I would like to request to see if you could add in a
boss rush mode on this mod, so after people this game, the boss rush mode will be added under new game and continue

If folk want to play a Boss Rush mod, then Karifean recently made one that offers a gauntlet of highly-specced, AI-adjusted story bosses that should challenge any seasoned FF7 player. The beta was great fun and now that it's more complete it should be even better. You can find it here on Qhimm: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14937.0

As for this mod, there should be enough end-game content to keep people busy. The Extra Battle, new super-bosses, and even just the final bosses and WEAPONS themselves should present a solid challenge (after tweaking depending on feedback)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: bobby678 on 2014-01-25 12:20:56
hey sega chief

I know how you can make the first bombing mission much more harder

after someone is done beating the first guard scorpion, the save spot dissappears so no 1 can save there game after that

to make it much more challanging, what do you think about that idea

and later in the game when people want to get to the boss, they need a boss key to open the boss door and the boss key will be in a chest somewhere in the board

thanks
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: bobby678 on 2014-01-25 14:45:18
Hey everyone

Keep up the great work with this mod

i really like it alot
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-01-25 18:14:09
I suddenly feel very inadequate with Nightmare 7
Pops to you good sir
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: bobby678 on 2014-01-25 18:18:18
hey sega chief

I know how you can make the first bombing mission much more harder

after someone is done beating the first guard scorpion, the save spot dissappears so no 1 can save there game after that

to make it much more challanging, what do you think about that idea

and later in the game when people want to get to the boss, they need a boss key to open the boss door and the boss key will be in a chest somewhere in the board

thanks
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-25 19:59:39

I suddenly feel very inadequate with Nightmare 7
Pops to you good sir

Cheers, Tenko but your Nightmare 7 mod does a lot of neat things with hard-coding and has features like the timed treasures which must've taken a long time to implement. I had to resist the temptation to peak at your flevel and 'borrow' some of that script code  :evil:
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Vgr on 2014-01-25 22:46:52
Hey, is there a way to get archived files instead of a stand-alone installer? I'm trying to extract just the files without actually installing it.

Edit: Nevermind. Seems like there was an invalid char in the path and the patcher didn't like it. It worked after I moved it to another folder.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: ff7rules on 2014-01-26 10:53:26
This Mod is amazing its everything I wanted to do with mine for the PSX. But of course due to limitations I couldn't Here's my blind full playthrough of the game https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRI2IVwnxZTYNMHaoW3exyIypoOgjJt7p
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-01-26 11:49:13
Cheers, Tenko but your Nightmare 7 mod does a lot of neat things with hard-coding and has features like the timed treasures which must've taken a long time to implement. I had to resist the temptation to peak at your flevel and 'borrow' some of that script code  :evil:

I had lots of help from our resident coding masters for those things. You can borrow as much as you want, be my guest. I 'borrowed' a lot of code as well. I don't really care about credit either so you can just take what you need.
I don't even have FF7 installed right now, so I can't check this out but it does sound like a lot of work, especially the models.

Once I restart N7 development I might look into how you did things like the extra battle, the party leader changes (although I'm fairly sure I know how you did that), the movie skips(Let me guess. A dialogue choice that jumps bytes and simply skips the play_fmv command?), and especially the sidequests and AI scripts you added and redesigned.

N7 was always more of a combined mods mod than it's own thing. Because I don't want to have the drama from last time repeated, how do you feel about seeing these things in N7?(although I have no idea when or at what time I will restart development, might be months yet from now.) Of course you'd be credited for everything in the thread, readme and the ingame welcoming message.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-01-26 12:20:37
This mod looks amazing. I'm going to fiddle with testing Kompass' GameConverter, installing this, then using 7th Heaven to inject mods. I'll try giving the best feedback I can when testing  :)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-26 14:05:25
This Mod is amazing its everything I wanted to do with mine for the PSX. But of course due to limitations I couldn't Here's my blind full playthrough of the game https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRI2IVwnxZTYNMHaoW3exyIypoOgjJt7p

I'll give that a watch, thanks for taking the time to upload those; 20-40min videos take a while to render.

I had lots of help from our resident coding masters for those things. You can borrow as much as you want, be my guest. I 'borrowed' a lot of code as well. I don't really care about credit either so you can just take what you need.

N7 was always more of a combined mods mod than it's own thing. Because I don't want to have the drama from last time repeated, how do you feel about seeing these things in N7?(although I have no idea when or at what time I will restart development, might be months yet from now.) Of course you'd be credited for everything in the thread, readme and the ingame welcoming message.

Cheers, Tenko. Same goes for yourself, feel free to use whatever you need from this mod. I've got a list of the new enemy model IDs that I'll send across if you start up work on N7 again (some replaced default models that were duplicates, like the Pyramids). It'd be interesting (and nightmarish) to see NT enemies and Hardcore enemies teaming up.

Once I restart N7 development I might look into how you did things like the extra battle, the party leader changes (although I'm fairly sure I know how you did that), the movie skips(Let me guess. A dialogue choice that jumps bytes and simply skips the play_fmv command?), and especially the sidequests and AI scripts you added and redesigned.

Party leader changing took a while because where Cloud will have scripts for handling things like climbing ladders the other two will have scripts for playing a support character so to get the 'Execute script # from party member 0' working you need to move all of Cloud's party leader scripts right down and then restructure the order of animations for each character so that Cloud, Tifa, and Cid can use the same script when in the party leader role. Then Cloud's original scripts need to be changed so he can play as a support character if a scene triggers. That needs to be done for every field where Tifa and Cid didn't have access to as party leader, but this becomes a nightmare to do if there's multiple story scenes playing out in a particular field because of all the different scripts and animations flying around.

The cutscene skips are more of a case of going through the scene and making sure you get every variable and flag together so that it can triggered if the player opts to skip the flashback/scene. That way the game doesn't trip over itself later on.

This mod looks amazing. I'm going to fiddle with testing Kompass' GameConverter, installing this, then using 7th Heaven to inject mods. I'll try giving the best feedback I can when testing  :)

Thanks for giving it a shot, Alyza. I'm planning to build on it once it's stable based on player feedback and ideas they might have. Hope ya like it!
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-01-26 14:30:21
God I know what you mean with the animation and script structuring

I would likely implement the additional content like new enemies, bosses and quests, but likely not the party leader changes simply because with so many mods already being combined, it will turn into a clusterfern the size of the Pegasus Galaxy.

The equipment, item and what else changes I would probably also not touch since I already balanced the game around the existing gear. Rebalancing and implementing new monsters will be challenging, without messing up the balance, to say the least.

How would you rank NT in regards to overall difficulty? Nightmare is clearly aimed at a hardcore crowd and easily twice as hard as the hardcore mod.

I really need to get around reinstalling FF7 and installing NT so I can look at the files, especially the flevel and scene.bin

Or do you have some sort of documentation detailing your changes?
On that note, have you done any particular changes to the ff7.exe?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-01-26 14:44:47
How would you rank NT in regards to overall difficulty? Nightmare is clearly aimed at a hardcore crowd and easily twice as hard as the hardcore mod.

Or do you have some sort of documentation detailing your changes?
On that note, have you done any particular changes to the ff7.exe?

It's tough for me to judge the difficulty of the NT mod. I thought Motorball was a good challenging fight but I know of two people who cheated their way past because they felt he was too much; I reckon overall it's not as tough as the Hardcore mod but some of the story bosses can be quite challenging and the end-game bosses/extra bosses might need toning down in a few cases (I've got a guy who's on Disc 2 at the moment so I'll hopefully have more feedback on them before other players reach them). Standard fights are definitely easier; most standard enemies can be taken out in a few hits or less. The idea was for quick random fights and long boss fights.

I uploaded an updated manual that has more notes on changes to characters, equipment, Materia, spells, and items (it's toward the back under Changelog). I've not made any changes to the .exe but I wanted to for limit break editing (I held off because it reduces the mod's compatibility but as they are it's unbalanced the game slightly which is bugging me).
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-01-26 15:01:35
Thanks a bunch.
I'll look through it. I'm particularly interested in how you coded the new quests and the FF10-esque arena (In theory, it's not that hard. Place new NPC, activate NPC dialogue based on variable, have NPC set variable, go to X where set variable comes into effect, bla bla bla. In practice, it's a lot harder than that, and a lot more headache inducing to get it working properly.)

Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.3
Post by: ff7rules on 2014-01-26 15:10:56
I'll give that a watch, thanks for taking the time to upload those; 20-40min videos take a while to render.

Loads of time was invested in this I can tell just by playing it its the least I can do!
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Bigmac on 2014-02-05 19:24:42
Using 1.0.5 and I've bumped into a few bugs on disc one near the mithril/Junon area.

There's a new creature near fort condor that puts all the party into confuse status and taunts the player with a few lines in the battle message, looks like a guy riding a bull. Then the game seems to be stuck, I've waited 2 minutes and also tried escaping but nothing happens. All the atb bars stay on wait.

There's also a crash that involves the steal command. Red 13 is the third party member holding the steal materia. When I use the steal command on a ark dragon or a zemlett, big creature with the tornado attack animation, the game will crash. 

The mithril mine area also may need toning down a little especially packs with the crab and arc dragon creatures. If you don't get MBarrier up quick enough you quickly get decimated though I am only level 20 at this area.

Other than that its been fine so far.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-02-06 01:09:06
There's a new creature near fort condor that puts all the party into confuse status and taunts the player with a few lines in the battle message, looks like a guy riding a bull. Then the game seems to be stuck, I've waited 2 minutes and also tried escaping but nothing happens. All the atb bars stay on wait.

That's odd, his AI was functioning before. I'll look at him again. I'll fix whatever's wrong with his AI while I re-do his stats (he's specced to be a pseudo-late game boss you can find on Wasteland areas in Junon but it's probably too much).

There's also a crash that involves the steal command. Red 13 is the third party member holding the steal materia. When I use the steal command on a ark dragon or a zemlett, big creature with the tornado attack animation, the game will crash. 

There's a few of those glitches lurking in the game. I've been trying to catch and fix them all with PCFinal but I'm starting to think that more get created whenever I use PCAlpha to edit an enemy formation. It seems to be isolated to certain enemies; I'm planning to go through every enemy with the new editor anyway to get their drop/steal flags corrected.

The mithril mine area also may need toning down a little especially packs with the crab and arc dragon creatures. If you don't get MBarrier up quick enough you quickly get decimated though I am only level 20 at this area.

Yeah, I was toning that area down for the 1.1 release. What happened was I specced enemies individually and didn't take their formations into account so the attacks get a bit overwhelming. Doing the same for other areas, removing certain status ailments and reducing the chance for them to be inflicted. Might be a bit of a rough ride ahead until it's properly sorted out, I'm afraid. But thanks for this feedback, it helps me get the mod in much better shape.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Bigmac on 2014-02-10 14:17:05
Think I'll list the monsters that crash the game if you use the steal command on them. I'll keep this post updated as I progress.

Arc Dragon.
Zemlett.
Stinger, spider creature in the gi cave.
GI Champion from the chest in gi cave (also the Heavy Ring doesn't appear in inventory unless its under a different name).
Commandos in Nibelheim outside the mansion.
Ghirofelgo in Shinra Mansion.
Green Dragon in Mt Nibel.
Harpy in Corel Prison Desert.
Golem in Cosmo Canyon.
Razor Weed in Wutai area.
Tail Vault in Wutai area.
Thunderbirds in Wutai area.

Bugs:

I think my restore materia jumped 2 levels from cure 2 to cure 3+regen (lvl 2 to 4). Happened when I fought a 5 snake pack in the gi cave in the room before the boss, was equipped in a rune amulet socket. I don't know if it was a random thing or a bug with the materia levelling.

The sound sometimes changes when using the buggy, game is still playable but everything is in a higher pitch.

Lost Number crashes on his physical form, not straight away I might add, had a good 5 minute fight with him before the game froze.

I stole an item from a enemy, not sure which one but it has no name and looks like a accessory in the inventory but it isn't a accessory.

The giant bird in the battle arena, think its a Zu, makes the game stuck when it has its first attack. The atb meters stay on wait and there's nothing you can do except reload the game. Kind of frustrating as its one of the last enemies in the battle arena.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-02-10 19:35:31
A list would be handy, thanks; I think for the Restore Materia I made Regen and Cure 3 very close together in level, not sure why at the time but I think it was to make the level of AP needed for Cure similar to Fire, Ice, etc.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-02-16 07:53:43
Finally got the time to look at the files
I'm gonna have to make a documentation for what is where

Also I think I need to cut down a lot on the number of things I'll port over because it's just too many nice things over here.
Already fell victim to scope creep once, second time is game over  8)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-02-17 14:15:59
Finally got the time to look at the files
I'm gonna have to make a documentation for what is where

I'll put together a list of those flevel changes once 1.1 is out with all the field fixes. I think once those are in, it should be mostly error-free as far as the field goes (with the exception of the Gondola which skips the second part of the ride going over the Event & Ghost Squares). Most of the work is in fixing the scene/bin to get rid of the dodgy steal/drop flags, redesigning certain boss fights, and fixing up the soft-locks caused by some enemies. I'm also planning to experiment with some stuff like 'double' spell animations using a dummy invisible Clod and seeing if I can get that working reliably (an Aire Tam Diamond Flash would be interesting). It'll all be a while off though, got a tonne of actual work to get done over the next few weeks.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: AirVault on 2014-06-10 21:29:53
hey Sega, mod looks really fun and I want to play it or try it out but I cannot find where to download it on the OP, am I blind? I cant seem to find it lol.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-10 22:52:04
Hey there,

Nah, you're not blind; I took the links down because I've nearly finished a big overhaul for this mod. It was too buggy and difficult before, so I reworked the whole thing. I'm aiming for the 15th June for release but there's a Beta that goes up to the boss fight with Dyne if you're interested:

v1.1 Beta 1998/Old PC version: http://www.mediafire.com/download/gdlhtvdmahbaks6/FF7_New_Threat_Patch_Ver_1.1_Beta_1998.exe

v1.1 Beta 2012/Steam version: http://www.mediafire.com/download/az17oslzhuu01ol/FF7_New_Threat_Patch_Ver_1.1_Steam_Beta.exe

Just run the installer and point it at your version of FF7's data folder when prompted. It has special writing permissions so you might need to run it as Admin if there's security issues. The demo goes up to the boss fight with Dyne; once you have the buggy, I'd recommend saving the game and not continuing as the flevel will be referencing enemies and formations that don't exist. Save files made on the Beta can be used with the finished version without any problems.

One thing to note, the opening cutscene skip doesn't work for the Steam version (it crashes the game when you fight the first set of soldiers) so if you download that version then select 'No' when asked if you want to skip the opening (it's being removed from both versions if I can't figure out how to get it working properly).

Finally, if you run into any issues with the mod or have suggestions for stuff to add or ways to improve it then let me know.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: AirVault on 2014-06-11 01:47:17
ok great thanks, ill have a look back around the 15th for a new update :)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-11 02:31:52
Righto; I'll hopefully have it all together by then.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: steelass117 on 2014-06-15 17:37:49
been waiting since january for this update :D i can't wait man

awesome mod
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-15 21:19:40
Really? Sorry about the wait; I've been working on it when I can but I fell behind with it this week because of a bout of flu and some new ideas I've had for it. I'm aiming for the 21st now for the 1.1 release. If there's anything you want to see in the mod then let me know and I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: steelass117 on 2014-06-15 22:06:50
don't worry about it :) iv'e enjoyed the mod so far

so anything you do to it now is just a bonus for me :)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: AirVault on 2014-06-16 03:02:09
hey sega a few questions about the mod.

Is the entire game modded and playable in the 1.1 release?

How does this compare to Gjoerulv's hardcore mod? I just finished that one.

Also with this mod, is it going to a different feel than the original or just harder?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.0.5 [BETA]
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-16 12:08:21
The 1.1 Beta is only modded up until Dyne, but the 1.1 release I'm hoping to finish by the 21st will be complete.

This mod adds new monsters to the game and adjusts the stats and AI of each monster like Gjoerulv's mod but it has a few extra features on the side like mini-scenarios to unlock a character's Lv.4 Limit and Ultimate Weapon (usually by fighting a new boss I've made), an Extra Battle for the Battle Square (where you unlock tough monsters to fight by trading in items), and an option to change your party leader to Cloud, Tifa, or Cid from the Highwind's Operations Room. There's a surprise waiting in the middle of the game too.

This time I'm aiming for something that feels different but not as punishing as a Hardcore mod. Random encounters don't inflict as much damage as the Hardcore mod encounters do (you can have your team on the Front Row and pincer attacks aren't guaranteed death), but they're stronger than default game fights and they have new attacks to keep you on your toes. All the story bosses were given new attacks, a new look, and most have new AI. Some might be quite challenging the first time around but there's some new save points dotted around to cut down on back-tracking. Everything gives more Exp, Ap, and Gil too so the game goes by faster and your spells are stronger and cost less MP so that magic isn't as useless toward the middle and end of the game.

But I'm planning on making a much harder version of this mod after 1.1 is done.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-28 04:01:22
Sorry to bump this thread, but the overhaul of this mod is finished. Details are on the updated front page. Apologies in advance if that image used needs to be taken down due to size. 7th Heaven version tomorrow. Must sleep now.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-06-28 04:43:41
Just wanted to point out in the readme that Vincent isn't listed under the [Starting Party] section.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-28 10:48:59
Ah, whoops. Cheers for catching that.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Iceboundphoenix on 2014-06-28 14:02:24
Cheers mate I can't wait to showcase your mod once I am done with my hardcore mod play-through I am going to make sure to get a serious crack at this. I will let you know on this thread if I run into any mishaps while i am steaming. Seriously can't wait :)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-06-28 23:13:40
Hey, it's a nice mod you've made ! I really enjoy it even though it may be a little too easy  :-P

I may have found 2 bugs in Mount Nibel :
- Down the pipe 2, when we pick the item it says 'Jem ring' but it is a Powersoul in the inventory (Materia Keeper gives a Powersoul too).
- When Materia Keeper is slained, I can hear a materia boucing (Counter Materia) but no sign of it.

Any hint to defeat Lost Number ?  :-)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-29 02:18:59
Thanks for letting me know, I'll fix those up. But the materia not appearing is strange. I remember changing the location it spawns from (so that it appears from Keeper's new location) and testing it a few times. I'll need to look at it again; and it now drops a HP<->MP Materia instead, I moved Mega All to the purple Materia cave in it's place.
EDIT: I had a look at the flevel and tested it out in-game, the Materia drops when Keeper dies but it can't be seen. It can be picked up however, search around where Keeper was standing before. I'll try and make it visible for the next update patch.

I moved the key to the basement to a treasure chest (where the Enemy Launcher was) while the Enemy Launcher itself is in the other wing of the Shinra Mansion (replacing a Magic Source). The reason being that Lambda is a strange fight and I didn't want to prevent access to Vincent, but I wanted to make Odin tricky to obtain. Basically, he'll transform when he's attacked while a variable is sitting on a certain value. It starts at 0, and whenever you hit him, it adds 6 to this value. When he uses 13th Aura, it adds 13 to the value. You're looking to make a prime number with the clue being: 34 come before it, and you have to go one over his. But I've been thinking that it's not a good fit for this kind of mod though; I might change it back to the standard fight and use this Lambda build for another project depending on how people find it.

The mod is quite easy but glad you're enjoying it all the same, the basic idea was to just make it fun to play; sometimes it's nice to just cut loose instead of getting knocked about all the time.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-06-29 10:29:01
After beating Materia Keeper again, I saw the materia dropping, it goes off screen under the red thingy indicating the exit.

Thanks for the Lambda explication, i'll try it after getting the tiny bronco.
EDIT: Didn't manage to beat him even if I think I found the number  :'(

My game keeps crashing against Godo at the beginning of the fight, any idea ?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-06-29 18:48:07
I'll review both fights, starting with Godo; that's likely caused by the changes I made to his AI. I'll have the scene.bin hotfix updated in about 20 minutes.

EDIT: I fixed Godo and reviewed Lambda; there was a softlock with either form's attack that finishes the fight. Both issues were fixed.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-01 14:09:57
I downloaded the scene.bin hotfix and installed it but the fight with Godo still crash at the beginning.

A minor bug : CD1 Battle square, I had 3400 GP and wanted the Pre-Emptive Materia (3000 GP) but I'd got the S-mine instead (which is at 5000 GP).

Are we supposed to beat Jenova Life ? Because I died to her and the game continues anyway.

I read that I can still use Aeris after her death (And the use of a phoenix down  :-D) but I don't see her with the PHS. Is it normal ?

Thanks for your answers.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-01 15:48:14
Sounds a bit strange, I tested the Godo fight after applying the scene.bin patch. I'll double-check the patch and then re-upload it, something must have went wrong. Actually, I'll test it with the Steam version this time just to make absolutely sure. I'll also re-check the Battle square prize tables and make sure that the right prizes are set with the correct menu option.

It was originally intended (and a bad idea) to make Jenova Life a super-boss that is re-visited later in the game for Aeris' Lv.4 Limit and Ultimate Weapon but I changed it to be a normal boss battle instead. I must have left the commands that disable Game Over in that scene; I'll just fix that up.

But it's not normal for Aeris to not be present in the PHS after her death, she should be added before you set off out of the Forgotten City. I'm now remembering an incident that happened during testing, where I removed the original scene that puts Aeris back in the party and didn't realise until I was in Icicle Inn. I put a command in to add her to the PHS after that, but it's looking like it hasn't done it's job properly. I'll look at this pronto, but to save you the trouble of save-editing her back in, I'll also add a command that automatically adds her in the Icicle Inn field; to my knowledge she and most other party members aren't absent for the rest of the game so it should be fairly harmless.

Thanks for reporting these, by the way; sorry about the hassle.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-01 16:44:54
No problem, it's a great mod ! Only a few bugs which are not troublesome  :-)

I'm at the Icicle Inn and Aeris is not available.

After the battle with Jenova Life and the defeat, everyone has 0 hp which means that the next fight is a game over  :-P
She is tough since I can't heal or rez people. Sense does not work so I don't know how much HP she had left. EDIT: Regen for the win !

The only scene I've seen about Aeris ressurection is Cloud saying 'I forgot I have a phoenix down' then it's the end of the CD1.

Maybe the fact that I lose to Jenova Life is linked to the no reapperance of Aeris.
I'll try to beat her to be sure it is not the case.

I'm playing the steam version. I think I installed the v1.1 beta then the v1.1 final then the flevel hotfix then the scene hotfix.
I'll uninstall everything, download the game again, install the up-to-date version of NT and try Godo, Jenova Life and Aeris again.
I'll let your know.

EDIT: Beating Jenova does not change the fact that Aeris is really dead  :'(
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-01 17:43:45
Aeris appears to have a predilection for deadness. We will soon put a stop to that.

The Aeris problem is my mistake. I've found that I put a command to unlock her in PHS but not to actually add her back to the roster. I've since corrected that and added these two commands to Icicle Inn's Direct so that she'll be added when you enter this field screen (saves having to go through that scene again). It'll have no adverse effects that I can think of as she doesn't leave the party again for the duration of the game. Same thing with the battle result; that's something I forgot to remove.

I'm looking at the Gold Saucer prizes too. I think I've found the mix-up. Only thing left that I'm concerned about is Godo. I'll be testing that fight again on both versions of FF7. I'll have updated hotfixes up soon.


Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-01 18:13:16
Don't bother looking into Godo, after a fresh install it is OK. Maybe the last hot fix had a problem during the installation. Windows asked me if it was correctly installed.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-01 18:33:30
That's a relief, I was about to report back that I couldn't find a problem with Godo. I think in this case, the files being patched were so similar that the hotfix installer perhaps didn't patch the file, thinking it was an identical copy. I had an issue with Mediafire where it wouldn't accept a new hotfix installer because it thought it was the same file as the old one (even under different names).

I think that's all these issues resolved. I'll be uploading the updated hotfix patches now.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-01 20:33:09
So I'm trying to get New Threat working with other mods since I can't live without my auto-run.  I ran your installer over a basic Bootlegger package and played through the first mission.  Everything related to New Threat worked fine (loved seeing Jesse get to kick ass btw), but some of the graphical upgrades got reverted.  The updated music, backgrounds, and menus were all there, but the field, battle, and weapon models were all back to base.  Do you think it'd be possible for me to patch those back in?  I'll figure out how to do it;  I'd just would like to know if there's some obvious, "sorry that will never work."

The field music carrying over into battles was working, but is it supposed to also carry into boss fights?  I also wasn't getting the victory fanfare after the bosses;  was I supposed to or is that something else I gummed up?

Thanks for the mod!
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-01 21:15:22
The mod's installer is rudimentary, and just patches over the top of .lgp files rather than going into them and replacing specific files. The ones it patches are:

battle.lgp (monster models, battle backgrounds, and in-battle character models)
char.lgp (field models; this part isn't strictly needed as only a few models were changed)
flevel.lgp (field files & backgrounds)
scene.bin (enemy formations, stats, AI)
kernel (Spells, character stats, misc.)

Things like music, menus, minigames, and videos are left alone by the patcher but I'm surprised that backgrounds were still okay. Were they field backgrounds or battle backgrounds? As for patching back in the graphical mods, it's more than possible; the only thing the mod needs to do is add in the extra monsters for the game to read, the event script for the flevel, and the scene.bin + kernel.

But Bootleg is something I've not used, and I've no idea how it patches things. But from what I can see in the related thread though, it looks like the NT Mod is getting included with the next updated release of Bootleg (though I'd probably better get all the bugs fixed before then). I'm also working on putting a 7H IRO together which has the game only load in the extra stuff that the mod needs, leaving everything else alone (so custom character battle models, etc. could be used without incident). Problem with that is you'd also need the graphical mods to be in 7H IRO format and to run the game through the 7H Wrapper (which would take a little setting up).

But if you can add the graphical mods manually by decompiling the battle.lgp then it should work fine. One warning is to maybe stick with only replacing in-battle character models and battle backgrounds. I changed a few duplicate models that appeared in the battle.lgp with new monsters so be wary about putting in, say, an HD version of the Shinra trooper to replace all instances of a Shinra soldier.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-01 21:36:27
Ok, awesome!

Yeah I'm looking into a manual decompile and install; it doesn't look too messy.  I'll stay away from the npc models.  I always seem to spend way more time creating the perfect experience than I do actually playing the games *cough*Elder Scrolls*cough*.  Eh, I find it fun.

Edit: It was the field backgrounds I noticed.  Couldn't tell with the battle backgrounds.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-01 21:55:49
I always seem to spend way more time creating the perfect experience than I do actually playing the games *cough*Elder Scrolls*cough*.  Eh, I find it fun.

Edit: It was the field backgrounds I noticed.  Couldn't tell with the battle backgrounds.

I can relate; I usually spend more time modding TES games because I can't actually stand playing them.

With the field models, the only three to watch out for are Young Cid and the two red-hair NPCs who run the weapon Shop in Sector 7 and who appears with Tifa's Father on that white screen during the Mideel sequence. I replaced one of the red-hair NPCs with a new Shinra soldier. The game will run anyway if these are replaced but it'd be eerie to have Cid clones wandering about.

The battle.lgp can probably be modified too, I think the only monsters that were replaced were mostly duplicates not used by the game's enemy formations. CMD. Grand Horn is an exception though, so be careful if you have an HD model for him. Possibly the Turks too, double-check them with Kimera before replacing them. You might notice that the files go past Chaos all the way to VDDA; these are all extra monsters added to the game so take care not to remove/lose any of these or you'll run into a soft-lock crash later on.



Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-02 01:24:52
Got the battle models imported, but ULGP threw an ".lpg read error" when I tried to open char.lgp, which is mildly concerning.  Oh well, I actually like the default field models because nostalgia goggles.

Played through the second reactor;  Air Buster kicked my buns once because I forgot items were a thing.  His facing bug was even worse than before, flipping in one frame to attack a direction and then flipping back so his facing was only ever correct by accident.  Don't recall how reflect pierce is supposed to work, but I was getting some funny results.  Trying to cast cure on one of my party members resulted in the spell bouncing 10 or 12 times, finally landing on the original target, and wiping reflect from the target (and maybe the boss?  didn't check).

The crazy animation might've been screwed up by my other mods, but I don't think I put in anything that would mess with reflect.

Edit: Air Buster save Link (https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0ByVm1e2MFeP4OEJQeWR5WEJ4cFk&usp=sharing)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-02 01:58:48
The facing bug is quite bad (can't remember how it is on PS1); I had to learn the trick to it when fighting the Hardcore mod Air Buster. Usually, whoever attacked him last is who he is 'facing' but this'll sometimes be subverted when he attacks (but not always, which is annoying).

But I don't think I intended for Reflect to be used on Air Buster; just the player party. Might not be possible due to it being a pincer so maybe I went with having it affect everyone in the end. Might not be the best way, because it's pointless with all the bouncing. I better review the fight. How it is with Reflect is that it'll just keep bouncing until the Reflect is gone from a valid target.

The animation for Reflect is in the magic.lgp file so the mod installer should leave this alone, but what do you mean by a crazy animation? Was the spell animation messed up? If it was, perhaps it was related to a battle UI mod? I've seen graphical glitches occurring with stuff like that when things like Countdowns are present. If this is off the back of a Bootleg installation then it might be something has 'invaded' the magic.lgp file; have you installed any mods in the past from Bootleg that affect magic/spell textures?

A little more serious is the char.lgp. I haven't run into any ill-effects with the field models yet, but I don't like the idea of leaving alone some kind of hidden issue with that file, especially with a Bootleg release coming up. One thing I noticed is that, when patching a copy of the game that already has the NT patched to it, the char.lgp will always be 'updated' even if the same one was used to create the patcher. I've been using Aali's LGP tools up until now but I read they weren't as reliable as the ULGP. I'll need to look into this. If my char.lgp doesn't open with ULGP then I might re-do it with a fresh one using the new tools, just to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-02 02:22:48
If you guys like Chibis then this is for you: https://mega.co.nz/#!rV8gAaTB!H_h0zCI07K8wVyR22zyGVgErANuyxQTkaYsezEzTVfs

These are altered versions of the original models. I have also fixed some missing polygon's (Barret, Cid and Vincent), but I haven't completed all alternate versions of them (Cloud in the wheelchair for example). Feel free to work on them I have put my color notes within.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-02 02:53:03
The animation for Reflect is in the magic.lgp file so the mod installer should leave this alone, but what do you mean by a crazy animation? Was the spell animation messed up? If it was, perhaps it was related to a battle UI mod? I've seen graphical glitches occurring with stuff like that when things like Countdowns are present. If this is off the back of a Bootleg installation then it might be something has 'invaded' the magic.lgp file; have you installed any mods in the past from Bootleg that affect magic/spell textures?

I was referring to the turning animations of Air Buster. 
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-02 11:52:21
I was referring to the turning animations of Air Buster. 

Ah, that's a relief. On the PC he's just like that, moving and shaking all over the place. Got an update for the char.lgp though; very odd thing happened, I can't decompile past a certain point (it seems to stop when it reaches the file that has a name before char.lgp, almost like it's blocking it). So I renamed char.lgp to zhar.lgp and decompiled again; this time I got all the files out...and they'd changed into default files. No idea what to make of that, it was like a magic trick.

In any case, I'll be looking into ULGP and using that to make a new char.lgp that can be decompiled and edited. I read in the past that Aali's LGP tools had some kind of problem but I can't remember what it was.

If you guys like Chibis then this is for you: https://mega.co.nz/#!rV8gAaTB!H_h0zCI07K8wVyR22zyGVgErANuyxQTkaYsezEzTVfs

These are altered versions of the original models. I have also fixed some missing polygon's (Barret, Cid and Vincent), but I haven't completed all alternate versions of them (Cloud in the wheelchair for example). Feel free to work on them I have put my color notes within.

Hey, these look kinda cool. I'll see if I can't contribute some work to this, once I've sorted out my char.lgp woes.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-02 16:01:21
Took down Reno on my second try, didn't realize he could Interrocage everyone at the same time >.>  Ran into a small graphical glitch.  When he uses Proto Turk Light, it moves the graphic (but not the effect) of Interrocage onto whoever he targets.  I'm guessing it's supposed to target someone already in a cage?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-02 16:17:26
No, Proto-Turk Light was just supposed to be a regular attack that he throws around, like Electroprod. I actually saw this in action this morning, when watching someone's playthrough. The Pyramid enemy moves around but the 'effect' stays on the original Pyramid target, from what I can tell. Seems (sort of) harmless but it's too confusing so I'll probably remove the attack.

EDIT: I'm currently making a char.lgp using ULGP that'll hopefully be able to decompile through that program. Could you let me know if you were able to decompile and recompile the battle.lgp and flevel.lgp?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-02 18:30:04
No, Proto-Turk Light was just supposed to be a regular attack that he throws around, like Electroprod. I actually saw this in action this morning, when watching someone's playthrough. The Pyramid enemy moves around but the 'effect' stays on the original Pyramid target, from what I can tell. Seems (sort of) harmless but it's too confusing so I'll probably remove the attack.

EDIT: I'm currently making a char.lgp using ULGP that'll hopefully be able to decompile through that program. Could you let me know if you were able to decompile and recompile the battle.lgp and flevel.lgp?

Battle.lgp and Flevel.lgp both worked fine on my end.

Edit:  Just cleared the Shinra Tower.  The difficulty really seems to be picking up;  I'm loving it. 

The elevator battle seemed far too easy, though.  Aerith and Barret are definitely back-row characters, and Red XIII arguably is too with his fairly high magic stat.  I only had to cure-all once throughout the fight :/

Motor Ball, on the other hand, was brutal.  His phase-change attack (something Flames, I forgot) was hitting for almost 600 damage on unprotected party members.  Wound up having to give Barret and Aerith Fire-Elemental armor, give Cloud the Talisman, and start the fight with MBarrier.  When I finally brought him down, Cloud was dead and Barret and Aerith were both in critical.  Dunno how the fight would be possible without that second Elemental materia.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-02 21:24:27
Motor ball is the hardest fight so far. Materia keeper can be suprising and Jenova life is tricky.

Did you change the sorceress which is guarding Alexander ? I one shot her.

Found a critical bug : at Junon CD2, the first battle with the guards when Cait Sith puts Scarlet to sleep, this battle crash at the beginning. Maybe a sprite problem because the enemy or the team are not shown.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-02 22:54:49
I've been following a Youtuber's progress and I saw that the Motorball fight was too much; the combination of Monoxide Smog and Slow Burner is too dangerous if MBarrier isn't up, especially with Rolling Fire on the way. I tuned the damage down on those attacks today, and on Rolling Fire too. It's a lengthy segment to sit through after each Game Over so there needs to be more slack there. But the Gunners fight could maybe stand to be tuned up somehow. I was a little tentative because of the second Air Gunner but I'll look at it again.

I think it's just a regular Snow enemy guarding Alexander, like in the original game. I'll have a look just in case that one still has vanilla stats.

I'll get on that right away; it'll be the wrong enemy IDs in the enemy formation, it sounds like. Easily fixed, but I should have caught it at the time.

EDIT: The patches and installer have been updated. I also put together a char.lgp that should be usable with ULGP (it was compiled with ULGP and then decompiled with it as a test). I'd recommend maybe having this patch to a default char.lgp as it'll be almost identical to the NT Char.lgp: http://www.mediafire.com/download/zih6bb94528ne0w/NT_Mod_char_lgp_3rd.exe

Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-03 14:53:02
Thanks, I didn't remember that the Snow enemy was a normal enemy.
It's working fine with the correct ID now :)

I just got the Highwind, I'm lvl 60 with no grind and 5k-6k HP (1 HP plus lvl 3 each). Since Jenova Life, it seems that the bosses do too little damage : 500 with no element reduce (armors are Wizard Bracelet and Edin Coats). With regen, I'm always full life.

Do we got the replaced materias (like comet, counter or added cut) later in the game ?
Did I miss an encounter with the Guard Scorpion that "following" us between Dyne and the Junon escape ?

I'm really looking forward the added Battle Square bosses or the quests for the 4th level limit/ultimate weapon  :P
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-03 15:43:39
Aw hell, you got a HP Plus? Did you get it from a shop or from the Junon harbour send-off? I was trying to keep Plus Materia in the Crater and specced story bosses for a non-Plus team. Looks like I've missed a vendor somewhere.

Balancing enemies gets tough from around the Icicle area and onwards because that's roughly where differences in play-style hit a point where it's tough to accommodate everyone; there's roughly three kinds of players: people who only fight what they run into, people who grind up for things like Lv.3 Limit Breaks, and 'rush' players who run from most random encounters. It's about that area where I think the widening gulf between these three types reaches a critical point and it gets worse from there on. If you spec up to handle the heavy grind players, everyone below that suffers as a result. I was aiming for that mid-range with the old version of the mod but I miscalculated; it's perhaps made me too cautious but better they're too weak than too strong. I'll test them out with a 'low' team and push their stats/attacks a little bit if they're still lacking firepower.

I don't think there's any Scorpion encounter between Dyne and the Junon escape from what I can remember. There were, counting the two in Reactor No.1, seven encounters with it in all although Fight No. 6 is technically optional.

The Materia like Full-Cure (which now has an Esuna affect attached to it), W-Item, etc. are all being kept either in the Crater or as prizes in the Extra Battle. Once you've beaten a monster from the EB roster, talking to the middle NPC will have him check for which monsters are dead and he'll dispense the Materia associated with them. Comet should be tied up with the Corel Train scenario but failing it means having the find Comet elsewhere.

Morph is being kept by the Kalm Traveller for when you get all three items for him; I set up an area for each source, so every enemy in Mythril Mines for instance will morph into a Guard Source (although I imagine if stat-maxing is going to happen it'll be done through Black Chocobo but I figured it'd be an idea to have a way of doing it easily in-game).

For Cloud, Tifa, and Cid, make sure to have them as party leader when going for their Lv.4/Ult.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-03 15:56:40
I got a HP plus from Canyon Cosmos shop. I also got a Exp plus (it was early in the game, don't remember where). Long range twice (one in Mythril Mines and one in Coral Valley Cave).

I'm the kind of people who only fight what they run into so maybe I'm too strong for this point of the game (expecially with HP plus). I know it's tough to balance a game. I'm just giving my thought.

If I max stat (which depend of the need/easyness), I'll do it in-game.

Thanks for your answer.  :D
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-03 16:13:37
I got a HP plus from Canyon Cosmos shop. I also got a Exp plus (it was early in the game, don't remember where). Long range twice (one in Mythril Mines and one in Coral Valley Cave).

I'm the kind of people who only fight what they run into so maybe I'm too strong for this point of the game (expecially with HP plus). I know it's tough to balance a game. I'm just giving my thought.

If I max stat (which depend of the need/easyness), I'll do it in-game.

Thanks for your answer.  :D

I haven't gotten to the rest of that yet, but for me the Long Range materia in Mythril Mines was replaced with a(n enragingly useless) Gil Up.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-03 16:19:22
The Exp & Gil Plus were exceptions to it (forgot about those two); I added Exp Plus early because I like to keep my party levels roughly equal with each other and it's a way of getting a character back up to speed if they haven't fought in a while.

I'm the same, I'll only fight what I run into. But that was the level of difficulty I was aiming for so I've maybe missed the mark slightly. It's easily fixed, a little boost of 5-10 to the enemy's level might sort it out. I've got an experimental pre-battle AI I might implement though; it would set the enemy stats higher if the player has a party member over a certain level. It needs to be tested though.

Stat-maxing shouldn't be necessary, very few bosses have more than 200 strength/magic. Dragon Force is in there too, but that might be overkill. One thing is that some bosses have very high/max defence and there's a trick to beating these ones. That said, there's some defence-ignoring attacks like Shadow Flare you can use to get around this though. I picked areas that had bountiful enemy formations like Mt. Corel and Cave of the Gi for source morphing, to make it less of a chore.

I haven't gotten to the rest of that yet, but for me the Long Range materia in Mythril Mines was replaced with a(n enragingly useless) Gil Up.
Ah, so it was changed. Must've been the 1.1 Beta it was a (much more useful) Long Range Materia. I think the purple Materia around the back exit of Forgotten City was still a Long Range though. But it looks like I have a few more things to change; thanks for the info, folks.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-03 18:07:18
Just got through Junon.  Choco/Mog has made random encounters trivial, maybe up the MP cost so it isn't so spammable?  On my first try against Bottomswell, he died to a poison tick right after casting his wave attack normally.  Double waves = 900 damage ouchies.

I got the Rune Armlet from the minigame, did you change the HP Plus and Silver Glasses rewards too?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-03 19:31:54
I could rein in Choco-Mog to roughly the same power as Fire, Ice, etc; it has that Stop status on it which is very powerful so that should balance out the decreased power. I had high MP costs for summons in the previous version but it didn't seem to help. For the summons you're about to get, Shiva and Ifrit come in roughly around when magic materia starts to level up for tier 2 spells; they have less base power than those spells overall but the damage isn't 'split' over multiple targets and they all have a status ailment attached to them so I'm hoping that'll square them off against Fire2, etc. All that said, the animation of a summon cast has to be taken into account because it takes time to sit through them.

Of course, the unholy trinity of Beta, Aqualung, and Trine outstrip summons and spells at the moment. I'll probably need to move them deeper into the game, maybe Mt. Nibel, Wutai, and the Temple. I think tier 2 spells start flagging a little by Gaea's Cliff so they'd be a nice buffer between them and tier 3 spells.

That's unfortunate with the double waves, but I'm thinking that's a good trade-off for Poison; it leaves you with less control over when he dies.

Rune Armlet replaced Force Stealer as the top prize, and I think you get an accessory (probably Silver Glasses or a Silver Refractor as it was changed to) while the HP Plus prize was removed altogether. I think. I better double-check.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-03 20:06:24
I could rein in Choco-Mog to roughly the same power as Fire, Ice, etc; it has that Stop status on it which is very powerful so that should balance out the decreased power. I had high MP costs for summons in the previous version but it didn't seem to help. For the summons you're about to get, Shiva and Ifrit come in roughly around when magic materia starts to level up for tier 2 spells; they have less base power than those spells overall but the damage isn't 'split' over multiple targets and they all have a status ailment attached to them so I'm hoping that'll square them off against Fire2, etc. All that said, the animation of a summon cast has to be taken into account because it takes time to sit through them.

Just picked up Ifrit and my most advanced spell materia is about 3000/6000 to tier 2, though I did just pick up some double AP equipment.

Quote
That's unfortunate with the double waves, but I'm thinking that's a good trade-off for Poison; it leaves you with less control over when he dies.

Agreed.

Edit:  The shop in North Corel is still selling the Transform materia.  You replaced the one that'd usually be picked up on the way with a Seal, so I'm wondering if it's supposed to be available here?

Edit2: Cait Sith comes with Transform?  Now I'm confused.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-03 21:27:40
Nothing major there, I just put Seal there instead because you end up with another Transform (which has more AP) when Cait Sith joins (and I can't edit his starting materia + equipment very easily). So I figured I may as well swap the 0AP one out for a different materia; besides, Sleep can be handy for Dyne.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-03 21:40:33
Makes sense.

Megalixers are showing up as rewards for C-class chocobo racing.  I'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen...
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-03 22:11:13
Don't know anything about that; I left chocobo racing alone. In fact, I think prizes are only handled on the field screens when it dishes out the rewards. Have you installed any other mods through Bootleg that could have made alterations to the game's .exe?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-03 22:51:16
Don't know anything about that; I left chocobo racing alone. In fact, I think prizes are only handled on the field screens when it dishes out the rewards. Have you installed any other mods through Bootleg that could have made alterations to the game's .exe?

Possibly one of the bug-fixes messed with it.  Thought you might've removed the Enemy Away materia which'd otherwise be winnable then.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-03 23:47:28
The prize you win is hardcoded in the exe. It was wrong in German for ages until Dan made his great tools and Kompass63 has used them to fix it.
I guess it is in the exe somewhere at 0057B3D0 onwards.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-04 00:29:56
Thanks for the heads-up, Kaldarasha. The installer doesn't go near the .exe anyway, it's just overwriting files in the data folder (unless changes to the kernel or Field can influence it in some way; the Kernel, Field, and Minigame modules are linked, right?)

In any case, if Class C is dispensing Megalixirs as a prize then I've got no problem with that; it's tough to bet on a winner in the CPU races. The only thing that'd be an issue is if the prizes themselves were bugged in some way but I think the actual inventory additions are handled on the related field screen and those weren't changed.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-04 00:51:16
Thanks for the heads-up, Kaldarasha. The installer doesn't go near the .exe anyway, it's just overwriting files in the data folder (unless changes to the kernel or Field can influence it in some way; the Kernel, Field, and Minigame modules are linked, right?)

In any case, if Class C is dispensing Megalixirs as a prize then I've got no problem with that; it's tough to bet on a winner in the CPU races. The only thing that'd be an issue is if the prizes themselves were bugged in some way but I think the actual inventory additions are handled on the related field screen and those weren't changed.

It's just a temptation to waste a ton of time ^.^

Cleared up to the Buggy.  The X-ATM fight was extremely easy with Bolt2 which I learned from the random encounters in the area preceding, but my heavy use of Double AP may not be the norm.  Dyne was a pushover since Choco/Mog inflicted him with Stop and his Molotov attack kept missing, but that may have just been luck.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-04 08:03:36
The HP plus materia is also sold in Mideel.
Megalixers are winnable in C-rank chocobo racing but so far (14 races) no luck. Wondering how much GP it worth.

Goblin does not have Zeio Nut anymore, I suppose that the only way to have a Gold Chocobo is by defeating Ruby.

Beta is the spell I used the most, the fight against Zolom is easy now with the change you've made so it's easy to got it.
I didn't manage to learn Aqualong, Harpy did not cast it and it is not showing while manipulated. Jenova Life does not use it.
Same thing with Stilva and Trine. Materia Keeper does not use it. I had to fight Godo to learn it.

EDIT:
Just did the fights at materia caves :
The battle for Mime is tough which is nice.
There is a good idea behind the fight for Quadra Magic but it is just a matter of waiting.
I only try once for the purple materia and died. I'm sure the Quadra Magic + Comet + Mime will help.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-04 13:23:42
It's sounding like I back-pedaled on the HP Plus shops and then forgot about it. They'll be fixed for the next update.

The Goblins now morph into Zeio Nuts, with the Materia for that coming from completing the Kalm Traveler's stuff so I think the progression is: Weapons -> Kalm Traveler -> KOTR Cave. The Kalm Traveler doesn't give a Gold Chocobo anymore, but he does give a Chocobo of sorts. Make sure to take some E. Skill Materia and maybe an assortment of Greens with you.

Speaking of E. Skills, I think Trine is available from the new Thundercracker enemy on Mt. Nibel and Harpy's AI is to use Aqualung after a certain number of turns. I'll look at all these and Zolom again; I specced him quite quickly when I realised he still had default stats during the 1.1 Beta so he can maybe stand to be either tougher or maybe just a little smarter.

Congrats on the cave fights, the purple cave gives Mega-All which can be handy.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-04 13:53:04
Thanks for the heads-up, Kaldarasha. The installer doesn't go near the .exe anyway, it's just overwriting files in the data folder (unless changes to the kernel or Field can influence it in some way; the Kernel, Field, and Minigame modules are linked, right?)

In any case, if Class C is dispensing Megalixirs as a prize then I've got no problem with that; it's tough to bet on a winner in the CPU races. The only thing that'd be an issue is if the prizes themselves were bugged in some way but I think the actual inventory additions are handled on the related field screen and those weren't changed.

Yeah, the actual won items are handled by the field script of the chocobo racing cell. (And boy, there is a lot of possible outcomes) The displayed item in the race is linked to that but uses text from the .exe - It was such a gigantic pain to make this fit in N7.  The other minigames are pretty self-contained but item rewards and GP rewards are always handled via the field script.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-04 13:59:04
It's sounding like I back-pedaled on the HP Plus shops and then forgot about it. They'll be fixed for the next update.

The Goblins now morph into Zeio Nuts, with the Materia for that coming from completing the Kalm Traveler's stuff so I think the progression is: Weapons -> Kalm Traveler -> KOTR Cave. The Kalm Traveler doesn't give a Gold Chocobo anymore, but he does give a Chocobo of sorts. Make sure to take some E. Skill Materia and maybe an assortment of Greens with you.

Speaking of E. Skills, I think Trine is available from the new Thundercracker enemy on Mt. Nibel and Harpy's AI is to use Aqualung after a certain number of turns. I'll look at all these and Zolom again; I specced him quite quickly when I realised he still had default stats during the 1.1 Beta so he can maybe stand to be either tougher or maybe just a little smarter.

Congrats on the cave fights, the purple cave gives Mega-All which can be handy.

Thanks for the advice.

I fight Zolom during the 1.1 Beta that's why he was easy.
I probably did not let Harpy enough turns to cast Aqualung.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-04 15:01:07
Yeah, the actual won items are handled by the field script of the chocobo racing cell. (And boy, there is a lot of possible outcomes) The displayed item in the race is linked to that but uses text from the .exe - It was such a gigantic pain to make this fit in N7.  The other minigames are pretty self-contained but item rewards and GP rewards are always handled via the field script.

That's why I left the chocobo prizes alone; I'd planned to move Magic Counter and Counter Attack but that would leave the wrong prize names in the minigame itself. Hex editing's/.exe editing is something I've not gone into yet though I'm wanting to do that before I start another project.

I probably did not let Harpy enough turns to cast Aqualung.

Harpy should cast Aqualung every 7th turn that it has.

EDIT: I'm revising the enemy skill locations for Beta, Aqualung, Trine, and Magic Breath so they fit in better with the regular spells (otherwise they just replace both them and summons at that level). New locations for the next update will be:

-) Beta: Jemnezmy (Temple) + Maximum Kimera (Battle Square)

-) Aqualung: Acrophies (Forgotten City) + Calamantra (Ancient Forest)

-) Trine: Garuda (Da Chao) + Godo (Pagoda)

-) Magic Breath: Malboro (Crater, not the Icy Oscar on Gaea's Cliff) + Abyss (Battle Square)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: PapSnatchBrim [SwornEnemy] (DMR) on 2014-07-04 23:40:11
just played through the first reactor quickly,, and its awesome... loving it so far keep up the good work
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-05 00:34:13
Cheers, bud. If you run into any problems or have ideas for ways to improve the mod then let me know. There's an update due up tonight or tomorrow which makes a few tweaks to the mod; they're optional, but should improve things later on in the game (it's mostly tweaks for the Icicle Area and onwards, with a few enemies like the Midgar Zolom also getting a retune).
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: atro city on 2014-07-05 01:15:19
I read the readme file and didn't see any mention of this, so I thought I'd ask. Since back row and sadness are arguably broken, can the properties of those be changed to nerf them, or is that outside the realm of what is possible via modding? (I also have the same question about barriers, Dragon Force, and other methods of damage reduction)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-05 09:06:14
It's possible to do most of these things with and without 'hard editing' of the game's .exe, but a successful hex edit would presumably allow you to set the actual damage reduction of each thing and/or the behavior of certain commands and statuses.

-) Back Row: There's a formation setting that disables the 'Change' command, and presumably disables your Row too. It's used in the Pagoda for Yuffie's fights and in the Final Battle. No idea if it's stable or not.

-) Sadness: If this was removed from all enemy attacks and the Tranquilizer item then Sadness would be effectively 'dummied out' of the game and only available either by loading a pre-existing save game where a character had the status or through save-editing. It might be possible to add character pre-battle AI to remove the status to prevent this.

-) Barrier/MBarrier: I think editing to the .exe is the only way to alter these, maybe changing the damage reduction they provide or the speed with which they deteriorate. Wall and Big Guard could be removed to reduce their utility maybe but W-Magic and W-Item get around that. You could perhaps set these spells/Materia to not be compatible with All. It made a surprisingly big difference in the Hardcore mod when Big Guard only affected one person instead of everyone.

-) Dragon Force: The effect of this spell can be altered easily using Wall Market, either reducing the stat% gain it gives or changing the effect completely. Same thing goes with Hero Drinks.

-) Defend: Now I've never tried this, but I'm assuming you can change this in Wall Market again. You could set it to have the same effect as 'Attack' and change it's name, that way you have the option to attack even if the Limit Break bar pops up or maybe even if you have Slash-All, Mega-All, or Double Cut equipped (assuming they only affect the normal Attack command). Haven't tried actually doing any of this though.

-) Materia: A lot of Materia can have their levels reduced, which blocks off either the more potent effects (like Wall) or limits their effective use (like Final Attack).

Thing is, I wouldn't implement any of these for this mod (except Final Attack, I reduced it's max level to 2) because they're part of the mechanics and I didn't want to dictate to the player how they should play the game. You should be able to swing by without going full out with Sadness, etc. but it's there if you need it. This isn't a hard mod in the strictest sense, just something to have fun with. I'm planning to make a ridiculously unfair version of this mod in the future though, probably when I learn how to edit the .exe and the weather isn't so sunny and cheery.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-05 13:08:30
Battle Square :
- Some handicaps only apply to the last character like magic materia or hp/mp.
- In the second battle, against a Zu like enemy (Tonadu), i think there is infinite loop on one of his action. He do nothing and my characters waits for his attack.
- Only the last character is healed at the end.

I managed to beat Gil turtle, with some luck I guess, he kept on pondering life.

Ancient Forest :
- it seems like another enemy ID is not correct, the battle crashed at the beginning (it is not Orchidea, Epiolnis or Calamentra).
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-05 14:14:37
I'll get those sorted, but I think the Battle Square handicap thing is beyond me. By the way, was it regular battle you had a party of three or special battle? I set it up so that the Special would use three while the regular uses one.

The other two things I can fix though. I'm wondering if it's Ho-chu or Diablos; I'll know when I have a look at it, I guess. Patches will be up, along with the other slight tweaks and changes I'm making, within the hour.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-05 14:40:48
Great, thanks to your reactivity.

I have a party of three for the regular battles.

Is there another way to have batteries ? Because I used the one I'd got during the climb to the shinra building (I still got one) and I'm asked 3 to create a monster for the Extra Battle.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-05 14:48:27
Thanks for that; it gave me one character for the regular battle square during testing but there must be a loophole somewhere. I'll try something else.

The Armored Golem in the North Cave (left-down path) should drop batteries, decent chance but not guaranteed. It's something like 60%.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-05 19:00:51
I'll check on the armored golem after doing the lv. 4/ultimate weapon quest.

In the Highwind, :
- Devil's Gate fight leads to a fight with 3 guys with a shield.
- There is a spell mistake at the end of the battle against Jenova Decay (Beacause).

I really like the passage into Midgar with Cloud raging at the sense materia etc..

The battle for Cloud lv4 is tough hopefully I had dragon force.
Couldn't find the new threat in Forgotten City, I searched every house, the place where Aeris 'died' etc.. I got her in my team.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-05 20:21:18
I must have punched in the wrong number for Devil Gate; I'll fix that up in the next update. I better double-check the variable trigger for Aeris' Lv.4 though; most likely thing I can think of is that the old trigger is still being used there (which would have slipped by testing because I used a v1.0.5 save file to test the Lv.4 bosses). A new variable trigger will sort that out and it'll be fine with existing save files too.

I couldn't think of a good replacement for W-Item there and I knew people would go all the way down there looking for it, so I figured I may as well have some fun with it :-D
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-05 20:47:13
Ok, i'll wait the trigger for Aeris Lv.4 :)

I got trolled at the end of Ancient Forest, there is a saved point with strange text that crash the game.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-05 20:58:08
That's a bad one, right at the end of the area too. That save point used to be for a boss fight but there's no fight there now (so I'll probably just remove it); thanks for letting me know.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-06 15:07:12
You did a great job with the Lv.4 limit bosses. Expecially Caith Sith's.

I managed to do Vincent's at CD2. I don't know if it is intended.
There is no hint for Cid's quest. Couldn't find anything in Rocket town.
Tifa's quest has a problem, when I use the button she says it's broken, nothing happen and I can't move afterward nor use the menu.

How many Mysterious prize there is at the battle square ? So far I had 3 different.
How to get the special battle ?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-06 16:32:01
Thanks, bud. Glad they've worked out...most of them, anyway.

So for Cid's quest, he heads for Midgar and fixes the automated shop with the turret (there was originally a scene here where having Cloud, Tifa, and Cid would trigger this scene when examining the console; I adjusted this scene slightly and it now only requires Cid as party leader). Tifa's quest is in Nibelheim and is triggered when she plays the piano successfully. But it sounds like you've went to the Turret Shop with Tifa instead; is that the case? If so, it seems like the old scene is interfering or conditions to handle another party leader examining the console weren't added. I'll get it fixed up in any case.

There are four mystery sets: Edgar's Item Set, Shadow's Throwing Set, Guy's Source Set, and Dio's Special Set. The Source set is probably the most valuable.

The Special Battle should work to the original trigger of having Omnislash learned and W-Summon Materia in your possession. I'll double-check the trigger in case either of these are actually tripped by a variable rather than an inventory check and fix it up. Actually I might change it to require all character's Lv.4 Limit Breaks being learned (which would require that all the sidequest bosses have been beaten). I'll have it updated by tonight, along with any other bugs and suggestions reported in the meantime.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-06 16:38:15
So for Cid's quest, he heads for Midgar and fixes the automated shop with the turret (there was originally a scene here where having Cloud, Tifa, and Cid would trigger this scene when examining the console; I adjusted this scene slightly and it now only requires Cid as party leader). Tifa's quest is in Nibelheim and is triggered when she plays the piano successfully. But it sounds like you've went to the Turret Shop with Tifa instead; is that the case? If so, it seems like the old scene is interfering or conditions to handle another party leader examining the console weren't added. I'll get it fixed up in any case.

That's right, I went to the Turret Shop with Tifa. I'll try it with Cid.

The Special Battle should work to the original trigger of having Omnislash learned and W-Summon Materia in your possession. I'll double-check the trigger in case either of these are actually tripped by a variable rather than an inventory check and fix it up. Actually I might change it to require all character's Lv.4 Limit Breaks being learned (which would require that all the sidequest bosses have been beaten).

Ok, I don't have W-summon yet, that's why.
I'm not fan of having all Lv.4 Limit being learned, that means I'll have to farm them for each character which can be boring  :P.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-06 17:31:33
Ah, that's a good point (I'm the same, I usually finish games without Lv.3 learned). I'll maybe keep the trigger as it is then.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-06 18:11:44
It's way better with Cid for the Turret Shop.

I have now all the Lv.4 limit/ultimate weapon but I have only 8 Oversoul Shard. Is it normal ?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-06 19:48:56
There should be 9, and checking the drops they're all in place. If you have all 9 Ult/Lv.4 limits then the only drop I can think of that might have went wrong is Tifa's boss; can you remember if that one gave any EXP/AP?

The shards are technically missable in any case if the player doesn't take them on the rewards screen; so what I'll do is add a drop to one of the random enemies somewhere so they can be obtained that way. If you opt to save-edit the missing shard into your inventory, then it's the Tissue item you're looking for (the mod's kernel renames this item but it'll appear as 'Tissue' in Black Chocobo).
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-06 20:08:04
I get the one from Tifa's boss. It may be Vincent's because I did it in CD2.
I'll edit the missing shard. Thanks for information.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-06 21:27:33
The Special Battle should work to the original trigger of having Omnislash learned and W-Summon Materia in your possession. I'll double-check the trigger in case either of these are actually tripped by a variable rather than an inventory check and fix it up. Actually I might change it to require all character's Lv.4 Limit Breaks being learned (which would require that all the sidequest bosses have been beaten). I'll have it updated by tonight, along with any other bugs and suggestions reported in the meantime.

What variable do you use to check against Limits? I don't remember if the game actually checks against having W-summon and having /bought/ Omnislash (not learned it) or if it actually has a variable to check Cloud's limits. But even if it does, does it have variables to check the limits of all the characters?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-06 22:35:01
Not sure, I haven't tried it yet. I still have the default check in there; I'll have a look at it just now.

Edit: Alright, here's what I think it does (you were right, it seems like; it doesn't directly check for limits). It checks for if you bought Omnislash (bit 5 set to 1 in var 3-[79], and it's bit 6 for W-Summon) and then checks your inventory for an Omnislash book. If you don't have the book in the inventory, and it has it on record that you bought it, then it assumes you have learned Omnislash because you can't sell the thing and I'm assuming it can't be stolen by an enemy either. So it's a work-around rather than a direct check.

If you bought Omnislash and got rid of it somehow without using it, the teller would act as if you've learned Omnislash. If you got Omnislash from Safer, then it wouldn't count; in fact, I don't think you'd be able to unlock Special Battle at all (unless you can just use the book anyway). Could be wrong about all this, but that's what it looks like. I can't think of another reason why it would check to see if you had 0 Omnislash books in your inventory before unlocking Special Battle.

I guess in my case I'd have the game check against every variable I set up to deactivate the 9 sidequests. Bigger priority is locating the cause of having three party members in the regular battle though so I might leave it as is for now. But I better track down this missing shard; I thought it'd be Tifa's boss because it has multiple parts and only one gives the exp/ap & item.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-07 06:53:01
I think you're overthinking this.
If you want to check against everyone having the limit learned, use a variable and do layered checks on each bit of the variable. It's easy to include a [set bit to 1] on any given variable after a limit sidequest boss has been beaten. If you want to make absolutely sure, just check against inventory, too.

If you're worried about the shards, just move them from battle drops to the field, that way people can't not pick them up. Award them after the won fight. Should be a trivial change.

As for multi-fight battles, only the last enemy actually gives exp/ap/drops iirc. This would be easy to check with Hojos battle.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-07 07:59:43
I guess in my case I'd have the game check against every variable I set up to deactivate the 9 sidequests. Bigger priority is locating the cause of having three party members in the regular battle though so I might leave it as is for now. But I better track down this missing shard; I thought it'd be Tifa's boss because it has multiple parts and only one gives the exp/ap & item.

It is not Tifa or Cid, sorry I can't remember the others.

I don't know where to get some items needed for Extra Battle :
- Dragon scale
- Bird wing
- Protect ring

Can you help me find them ?

I beat Emerald weapon and went to the Kalm traveler. I only learned Big Guard. Did I miss other enemy skill ?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-07 11:48:53
I think you're overthinking this.
If you want to check against everyone having the limit learned, use a variable and do layered checks on each bit of the variable. It's easy to include a [set bit to 1] on any given variable after a limit sidequest boss has been beaten. If you want to make absolutely sure, just check against inventory, too.

If you're worried about the shards, just move them from battle drops to the field, that way people can't not pick them up. Award them after the won fight. Should be a trivial change.

As for multi-fight battles, only the last enemy actually gives exp/ap/drops iirc. This would be easy to check with Hojos battle.

That's what each sidequest does, it sets a bit to 1 on a variable. I added all nine to the special battle check and it seems to be working. There aren't any multi-fight bosses that I can remember, the only one that could have caused it was Tifa's boss because it's a Yin-Yang (and they disable their AI/Scripts on death so was worried it was only the torso that gave the rewards) but that one seems to be okay. I'll just move the shards to the field screen to be on the safe side.

I don't know where to get some items needed for Extra Battle :
- Dragon scale
- Bird wing
- Protect ring

I beat Emerald weapon and went to the Kalm traveler. I only learned Big Guard. Did I miss other enemy skill ?

Off the top of my head, Tonadu should have the Bird Wing (Zuu might drop it too); I think he appears on the beaches of the Temple area. Dragon Scale is carried by Serpent on the Gelnika, I think he appears in the back room of the Gelnika where Hades was. As for the Protect Ring, it looks like it's slipped the net; Guardian in the Underwater Reactor drops it but that area can't be returned to and Movers can be Morphed into it but that pushes the Extra Battle boss past all three Kalm bosses + the two Weapons. I'll swap the Mover's item drop with it's Morph item before I upload these new patches.

As for Enemy Skills, this is what you can learn:
-) Earth Harp: Big Guard
-) Desert Rose: Pandora's Box (ignores defence)
-) Guidebook: Dragon Force

For Dragon Force, the enemy will use it on each (alive) character when it dies, unless it uses it's very rare limit break.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-07 12:23:06
Thanks, I may had back luck then because I defeated Tonadu, Zuu and Serpent many times and none of them drop the item.
Actually, it was the same for Armored Golem, I had to defeat 30ich of them before getting 1 battery.

Dragon force is learnable by the Black Dragon in North Crater.

To get the guidebook you need Morph but, from what I understood, you get Morph after getting the 3 items to Kalm. How do you got guidebook then ?

Too bad Pandora's Box is the reward for beating Ruby because I need it to defeat her :P Doing 233 damage with Bahamut Zero does not help. I'll use the 7 fever  ;D
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-07 14:01:01
May have overlooked the Guidebook thing. I'd better get that changed pronto  :-[

Shadow Flare also ignores defence but it'll be a chore to use that repeatedly. I'll get something sorted for Ruby, probably just reduce his defence. Of course, 7777 fever is fun too (Is Ruby a 'her'? I never would have guessed).

The drop rates sound strange though. Tonadu's drop rate should be 100%. I'll boost up the drop rates of the other items so they're not as grindy to get, sorry for putting you through 30 Armored Golems; I thought they'd drop every three or so battles.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-07 14:21:38
Shadow Flare is absorbed by Ruby, sadly.
This makes me remember that Ultimate Weapon did not cast it when it died.

I don't know why but weapons are females to me.

Now that I know that the items drop, i'm happy. It's not that long.

Which boss is supposed to be the hardest ?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-07 14:53:58
Damn, that's right. I set those two spells for the Hidden Element. That said, I think I was supposed to make Weapons absorb Holy and weak to Hidden instead so that'll need fixed I think. I dropped Ruby's defence down by 100 so he's got about 140 defence and 160 magic defence or something. Attacks should make more of a dent now.

Edit: Just remembered that Ruby has AI to absorb all magic elements, clean forgot about that. I'll just remove it.

I guess the hardest boss is supposed to be Binah in the KOTR cave? But I guess it depends. Motorball, Jenova Life, and Lost Number might be candidates. Abyss could perhaps cause problems, and Bizarro could be tough because it's a three party fight and taking out the core will be required unless the party has a tonne of firepower.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-07 17:07:30
Tonadu drop is fine, I thought I had killed him because of the Battle Square.
Serpent is a pain in the ass mostly because he is the less likely fight in the cargo room, took me 1 hour to get 3 dragon wings.

1 round of luck 7's killed Ruby (497k damage). Did you lower its HP ?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-07 17:14:43
Yeah, I reduced Ruby and Emerald's HP. Reason is, KOTR isn't as easy to get to and it lost it's defence-ignoring property. There are plenty of ways to deal damage without it, like using Gravity on Emerald, but as these two aren't the top end bosses anymore I felt it was a good idea to bring them down slightly.

New updates to files are up. The scene patch makes the drops much more likely which should make it less of a grind, and Schizo now drops Protect Rings 100% so they can be farmed via the Highwind Bosses menu.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-07 17:28:14
Great, thanks.

Did you made a change for Guide Book ?

I'm fighting the chocobo for Pandora's Box, gave him 50 Silkys green it says each time 'Attack increases, Defence decrease' but I still hit him for 200. Any idea ?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-07 18:49:13
I changed Guidebook into a regular drop, should be fairly common.

You fed him Sylkis Greens and it displayed Attack raises, defence decreases? That's odd, I set that for Gysahl Greens not Sylkis. Seems okay in the AI, but maybe it's displaying the wrong text string? Here's a list of what each Green does:

-) Gysahl - Attack = 220, defence = 32
-) Krakka - Defence = 220, attack = 137
-) Tantal - Magic = 220, MagDefence = 32
-) Pahsana - Magic = 137, MagDef = 240
-) Curiel - Speed = 240, Luck = 0
-) Mimmit - Speed = 64, Luck = 240
-) Reagan - Evasion = 240, MagEvasion = 0
-) Sylkis - Evasion = 0, MagEvasion = 240

His stats are fairly high in all areas to begin with, so for physical attacks I'd throw a Gysahl and Sylkis to reduce his defence and evasion. You'd maybe want to reduce his Luck too with a Curiel and using a Pahsana to reduce his Magic Attack if you don't plan to use magic attacks yourself.

I'm going to re-test this AI; let me know if the text is broken on your end or if the stats don't change.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-07 19:31:09
Gysahl says : "Mevasion rises ! Evasion decrease !" and after 30 of them I still hit for the same 130.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-07 19:47:53
Yeah, I was testing it there. Seems very odd, the AI was a little different from what I usually do so I tested before release a few times. But between that and now, it's somehow stopped working properly. I'll have a shot at fixing it up, or changing it; either way I'll get the scene.bin patch updated for tonight.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-07 20:13:06
It is OK, take your time.

Ruby is better this way, the same difficulty that Emerald.

Another thing : I didn't get the prize for defeating Variablis. What it is ? (W-summon ?)

Here what left me to do :
- Beat the Pandora's Box chocobo.
- Get the Guidebook and echange it.
- Make Mysterious Tank (Where to get Hypnocrown * 2 ?) and beat it.
- Make Tyrant (If I remember correcty, the red crystal is given when beating Special Battle Square instead of autograph) and beat it.
- Beat KOTR Boss.
- Beat Lost Number. I still didn't figure how to do it.
- Beat the last bosses : Jenova, Sephiroth *2.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-07 20:36:08
No worries. I think I've fixed the stat changes but the item IDs were the wrong way around (Sylkis comes first in the item list, and Gysahl comes last; I got mixed up). I'm going to test the stat changes a little more to be sure.

I'll check for Hypnocrowns but I think it might be the same problem; Pollensalta's name jumped to mind but her normal drop is an Hourglass so it must be a Morph. I better review all the Morph items again because I've clearly had a lapse when I assigned Morph to the Kalm Traveller; it's made some bosses inaccessible until Morph is obtained so that needs fixed.

Variablis should give Shield. I'll check all the Materia drops again. But I've made another mistake, the Living Materia boss should have dropped the Red Crystal/Autograph but I changed it to a Mystile late on. Ziedrich is quite freely available from repeated fights with Lifeform Hojo now so I'll change Vorpar's drop to a Mystile instead.

When you grab Morph, you can get Zeio nuts for a Gold Choco and reach Round Island for the KOTR boss there. I'll say now that the Bit and Byte might be useful for dealing with the third phase of the fight. They also explode and deal %-based damage when killed.

Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-08 01:02:46
May have overlooked the Guidebook thing. I'd better get that changed pronto  :-[

Shadow Flare also ignores defence but it'll be a chore to use that repeatedly. I'll get something sorted for Ruby, probably just reduce his defence. Of course, 7777 fever is fun too (Is Ruby a 'her'? I never would have guessed).

The drop rates sound strange though. Tonadu's drop rate should be 100%. I'll boost up the drop rates of the other items so they're not as grindy to get, sorry for putting you through 30 Armored Golems; I thought they'd drop every three or so battles.

Drop rates can be iffy. In my experience, anything below a 30% chance tends to turn into a very rare drop.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-08 12:34:42
Seems like it; I set the important ones to 45/63. Not sure what the exact percentage is but it'll probably do the trick.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-08 12:52:31
I don't remember how it checks for item drops. Is the check run on a out-of-255 function? If so I don't understand why the outcome seems so incredibly biased and flawed at lower values. 10(40 out of 255) should drop an item more than once every 30 fights on average.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-08 13:11:03
I looked it up, it seems to be this:

If Random (0-63) <= Item Chance then the item drops.

So 10/63 should be roughly 1/6 (17%); still doesn't seem to match up.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-08 20:58:13
in theory, each point should be 4%, making 63 252%,
At least that is what you'd think
63 in hex is 99 though
however, you cannot add actual hex values
this has led me to believe drop rates in PC are actually limited to the dec range of hex 00-63
this creates some very obvious problems because you're missing 36 total entries (0A to 0F, 1A to 1F and so on) of percentages for drops.
the available ones are 1-9, 16 - 25, 32 - 41, 48 - 57, 64 - 73, 80 - 89, 96 - 99
Or, if 63 is actually 100% and 01 is actually 2% (for whatever reason this seems possible, considering 63 is max and there has to be a way to guarantee a drop)

This is pure speculation but since the check runs on random0-63, this might very well be a problem.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-08 22:56:11
in theory, each point should be 4%, making 63 252%,
At least that is what you'd think
63 in hex is 99 though
however, you cannot add actual hex values
this has led me to believe drop rates in PC are actually limited to the dec range of hex 00-63
this creates some very obvious problems because you're missing 36 total entries (0A to 0F, 1A to 1F and so on) of percentages for drops.
the available ones are 1-9, 16 - 25, 32 - 41, 48 - 57, 64 - 73, 80 - 89, 96 - 99
Or, if 63 is actually 100% and 01 is actually 2% (for whatever reason this seems possible, considering 63 is max and there has to be a way to guarantee a drop)

This is pure speculation but since the check runs on random0-63, this might very well be a problem.

That'd require some pretty bonkers programming.  Can you set an enemy to drop multiple items?  If so, it might not be hard to test.  100 samples should give a result that's within 10% of the set percentage.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-09 00:02:32
There might be something in that. I've noticed that both the default game and the Hardcore mod seem to use certain numbers (8, 16, 24, 32 etc.) rather than just any number. And in the HC mod a Zemzellet uses 57 which is an oddly specific number (and they're all usually inside the number ranges you mentioned, Kuugen).

Sword, if you're still playing through the mod could I ask how often you're seeing item drops from regular enemies? I'm going to test some of the drops tonight to see how things are.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: SwordofAeons on 2014-07-09 00:14:12
Haven't gotten to it in a while;  I'll pay attention next time I boot it up.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-09 08:22:08
I can help too if you want even though it seems I'm not lucky on drops  :)

Pandora's box chocobo is working as intended but when you kill him, he just stands there doing nothing rather than casting Pandora's box I guess.

I beat Godberry but I don't think it was the intended way, I keep on casting Shadow Flare to bypass his high mdef.
I gave him some potions of all sort but didn't get any message telling me it was working.

KOTR boss goes 'Charging Mammom canon : 5' and does nothing. I gave up after 10 minutes of hitting for 120 damage.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Luceid on 2014-07-09 09:40:33
This maybe the dumbest question ever, but:
The "Aerith lives" part is optional, or?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-09 12:20:41
I can help too if you want even though it seems I'm not lucky on drops  :)

Pandora's box chocobo is working as intended but when you kill him, he just stands there doing nothing rather than casting Pandora's box I guess.

I beat Godberry but I don't think it was the intended way, I keep on casting Shadow Flare to bypass his high mdef.
I gave him some potions of all sort but didn't get any message telling me it was working.

KOTR boss goes 'Charging Mammom canon : 5' and does nothing. I gave up after 10 minutes of hitting for 120 damage.

When the Yahcobo dies it's supposed to run off like a regular chocobo; there must be conditions where it won't do this for some reason. Same thing with Binah, there must be a kink in the AI that stops it working properly when you reach the third phase. For Godberry it's a specific item that'll lower his defence, but there's a trick to using that item on him in the first place. Shadow Flare and other defence ignoring attacks are the way around it. I'll try and have those other two fixed up by tonight.

This maybe the dumbest question ever, but:
The "Aerith lives" part is optional, or?

No, but I could make it optional with some work; I'd put a check similar to what the game uses for Yuffie and Vincent. That being said, Aeris' impact on the story is pretty much non-existent; it was done for gameplay reasons more than anything else.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: gjoerulv on 2014-07-09 12:36:49
 :D Looks awesome there chief! Not to sound mean here, but you may want to find another way of patching the .lpg archives as it may cause conflicts with some mods.
EDIT: btw just tested it. Loved the 1st (mod) battle with Jessie.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-09 13:30:27
:D Looks awesome there chief! Not to sound mean here, but you may want to find another way of patching the .lpg archives as it may cause conflicts with some mods.
EDIT: btw just tested it. Loved the 1st (mod) battle with Jessie.

No, you're right. I need a better patcher; I'm using a freeware one that's fairly robust but it just overwrites the entire .lgp rather than replacing specific files inside it. I'm going to put a 7H .iro together for it soon that'd only replace files that the mod needs to function but I'd need to package the scene + kernel separately unless there's a way to get it working with the wrapper.

Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Vgr on 2014-07-09 13:37:28
You can also write a script that unpacks the LGP, replaces the files and repacks it (just unpack all the files in a folder, copy all your files in that folder, re-pack whole folder).
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-09 14:08:26
You can also write a script that unpacks the LGP, replaces the files and repacks it (just unpack all the files in a folder, copy all your files in that folder, re-pack whole folder).

I'd need to learn a programming language first, unless you're talking about 7H's .xml file. My friend sent me his e-books and notes on programming a few weeks back but I've not gotten round to them yet.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Vgr on 2014-07-09 16:22:15
A simple batch script can do the trick. I'll even write it for you if you want, it's not that hard.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-09 17:05:54
I also would like to know which field files are modified (without the Aerith revival mod - why even revive her you could make a replacement character for her).
At the moment toughscript can't work with the flevel.lgp. I had the similar problem with my German overhaul and could only solve it with Makou Reactor (export every field and then import every field in an unmodified flevel.lgp). I assume a tool had made dirty edits (Loveless maybe, Highwind for sure).
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-09 18:04:13
I also would like to know which field files are modified (without the Aerith revival mod - why even revive her you could make a replacement character for her).

I'll get a list to you by tonight, Kalderasha (I think I owe Alyza a list for it too). For a lot of fields the changes are superficial and unnecessary, but any field that can be accessed from Disc 3 will have had some more serious modifications to the way scenes work in order to accommodate three different party leaders (for a nightmare, check out the gondola script). And any scene after Disc 1 that uses your squad-mates will have had an addition to handle the possibility of Aeris being there, except for the majority of Highwind scenes. I've not used any other tool besides Makou for editing the flevel and it hasn't been de-compiled at any point, but there's always an outside chance I've used Loveless right at the beginning while I was transitioning to Makou.

As for replacing the character, I dunno if making a replacement is that easy. I could definitely do it with a 7H version of the mod, that'd be a piece of cake thanks to the tools, but getting the game to do it on it's own would need some kind of wizardry, not to mention it would have a much larger impact on the game's story to have a new character running around the place. I just wanted to give the player that extra 9th party member to make use of; this is all about mixing it up with monsters, rather than story but I took some care to keep the impact it had to an absolute minimum (hence air-sickness).

A simple batch script can do the trick. I'll even write it for you if you want, it's not that hard.

I'd really appreciate that; a few people were asking about mod compatibility in the YT comments of this vid's installation tutorial. I'm trying to get into programming, but time is quite tight between debugging/tweaking the mod, work, fun in the sun (sunny days are rare in Glasgow), and my PhD. How would the batch script work for distribution? Would the user need some kind of LGP tools on their side of things to use it?



Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-07-09 19:03:08
Yes, I would like a copy of your file structure.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-09 22:15:26
Just getting a list of the fields together now. I'll try and leave a note for each quickly describing where the changes are.

FF7man, I updated the scene hotfix patch; I fixed Yahcobo's death counter (which should be him just running off like a regular chocobo) and I've re-done Binah's AI and tested him out. If you've killed everything else then should be on the home straight; I tested all the final bosses except Final Sephiroth when someone said Bizarro was crashing but turns out they had v1.0.5 installed.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Vgr on 2014-07-09 23:29:51
I'd really appreciate that; a few people were asking about mod compatibility in the YT comments of this vid's installation tutorial. I'm trying to get into programming, but time is quite tight between debugging/tweaking the mod, work, fun in the sun (sunny days are rare in Glasgow), and my PhD. How would the batch script work for distribution? Would the user need some kind of LGP tools on their side of things to use it?

I'll include the LGP Tools in the program to make sure everything's there. I'll send you a first, quickly-coded version so you can see what I mean. Will make it better after.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-10 00:02:55
Cheers, pal; that'd be a good frame of reference. I've been reading up on .bat files so I can maybe try a few things with the file you send, get myself a better understanding of how they're put together.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-10 11:10:26
Just getting a list of the fields together now. I'll try and leave a note for each quickly describing where the changes are.

FF7man, I updated the scene hotfix patch; I fixed Yahcobo's death counter (which should be him just running off like a regular chocobo) and I've re-done Binah's AI and tested him out. If you've killed everything else then should be on the home straight; I tested all the final bosses except Final Sephiroth when someone said Bizarro was crashing but turns out they had v1.0.5 installed.

Thanks. It's FFman :)

Yahcobo flee correctly but nowhere in the fight he casted Pandora's Box.
The background from Binah's fight has disapeared, no sign of Byte and bit also but the fight ended without error.

Red crystal is not Autograph, it's Combat Diary. I edited it in my save because I was supposed to get it before.
I really like the bosses you've made out of Caith Sith.

I have learned Omnislash and got W-Summon but the Special Battle is not available.

There is no W-Magic materia ?

What left me to do :
- Beat Special Battle Square and get the prize.
- Beat Lost Number. I still didn't figure how to do it.
- Beat the last 3 bosses.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-10 12:19:29
I'll move P. Box to Yahcobo's death counter script so he uses it at the end (but I'll have his AI reduce his magic stat first so it has less chance of wiping out the player without warning because of the defence-ignoring property).

I changed the background for Binah to the black one because it felt more appropriate, also his wings don't clip through the floor now. He'll summon the Byte and Bit if his general counter reaches a certain point (which is sped up if a Limit Break is used) but it sounds like he needs a bit of toughening up; he only has 200k HP at the moment which is half of what the Weapons have.

Looks like I got confused over those items. I'll make a list and double-check each one again. Special Battle should be unlocked once every character-specific sidequest has been completed. Reason is, there were variables attached to buying Omnislash and W-Summon (but they're not there now because those prizes were changed). The latest flevel patch should have that trigger. And W-Magic is the prize for beating the Extra Battle boss Abyss.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2014-07-10 13:45:06
Hi Sega chief !. First, congrats for your modd !
I play with Gjoerulv hardcore Modd, cause I like die a lot of times and fight a lot for winng fights !
I would try your mod, but I fear about a too simple difficulty. ( I don't say I'm a pro, far of that ! ) But the 'standard' difficulty is so easy tha, I can't play like that anymore.
What about the difficulty of your mod ? between normal and hardcore modd difficulty ?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-10 14:00:12
I'll move P. Box to Yahcobo's death counter script so he uses it at the end (but I'll have his AI reduce his magic stat first so it has less chance of wiping out the player without warning because of the defence-ignoring property).
Yahcobo didn't cast it even when he fled.

Special Battle should be unlocked once every character-specific sidequest has been completed. Reason is, there were variables attached to buying Omnislash and W-Summon (but they're not there now because those prizes were changed). The latest flevel patch should have that trigger.
I completed every character sidequest, yet I don't have access to the Special Battle. Is it because I completed them before you made the change for Special Battle ? Meaning the trigger for each quest didn't exist.

And W-Magic is the prize for beating the Extra Battle boss Abyss.
I get another prize for beating him, I think. I don't have any W-Magic and I beat the 10 Extra Battle.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-10 14:12:44
-To FFMan-
Yahcobo: That's because I haven't changed it yet; I'm going to make him use it when he dies for the next update.

Special Battle: I tested this before putting it out; the only thing I can think of is the change made to Aeris' sidequest variable causing the issue. I'm going to set it instead so that it only needs Cloud's sidequest to be finished. That should cover it.

The W-Magic is a mystery to me. It's in the script to drop after beating Abyss and talking to the middle NPC; I'll re-test that part to get a better idea of what's going on.

-To ManuBBXX-
Hi Sega chief !. First, congrats for your modd !
I play with Gjoerulv hardcore Modd, cause I like die a lot of times and fight a lot for winng fights !
I would try your mod, but I fear about a too simple difficulty. ( I don't say I'm a pro, far of that ! ) But the 'standard' difficulty is so easy tha, I can't play like that anymore.
What about the difficulty of your mod ? between normal and hardcore modd difficulty ?

It's definitely easier than the Hardcore mod. But overall, it depends on your approach. Let's say you stop and grind for Lv.3 Limit Breaks; you'll probably have no trouble for most of the game. I avoided speccing enemies and bosses to handle stuff like that because I feel you make those things necessary when you do that; if you give a boss enough HP or Defence (or some other mechanic) to deal with stuff like Meteorain, then a player who doesn't grind for limits suffers as a result. The same thing goes for Sadness and Back Row; I decided to not take those into account when speccing damage for the same reason.

The idea here was to make something that was fun to play and which gave the player the freedom to approach fights however they want. You can have people on the front row, you can go with physical attacks or magical attacks (magic costs less to cast and has slightly more power + almost every enemy has elemental weaknesses). There are a few bosses that have a special mechanic, but you can get around them using things like defence-ignoring attacks for instance.

But you can't beat first-hand experience. Try giving it a whirl up until the Midgar Escape to see if this mod's for you or not; there's a lot of new fights to get stuck into, at the very least.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-10 14:34:47
Yahcobo: That's because I haven't changed it yet; I'm going to make him use it when he dies for the next update.

Special Battle: I tested this before putting it out; the only thing I can think of is the change made to Aeris' sidequest variable causing the issue. I'm going to set it instead so that it only needs Cloud's sidequest to be finished. That should cover it.

The W-Magic is a mystery to me. It's in the script to drop after beating Abyss and talking to the middle NPC; I'll re-test that part to get a better idea of what's going on.

A lot of variables are saved to the game
What happened here is likely:
You are checking for bits being set that only get set when you beat the bosses.  If the patch is updated after the bosses are beat, the check will never return true. An easy solution to this is a cardboard NPC that checks whatever variable you use in the sidequests and sets the appropriate bits if he detects the sidequest as finished. Might even be something as boring as a plain looking npc that just says "I love fighting. Heh. Heh. Hah."
Seems redundant for new games but it'll take 5 minutes and will fix this problem for all people that updated.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-10 14:48:45
A lot of variables are saved to the game
What happened here is likely:
You are checking for bits being set that only get set when you beat the bosses.  If the patch is updated after the bosses are beat, the check will never return true. An easy solution to this is a cardboard NPC that checks whatever variable you use in the sidequests and sets the appropriate bits if he detects the sidequest as finished. Might even be something as boring as a plain looking npc that just says "I love fighting. Heh. Heh. Hah."
Seems redundant for new games but it'll take 5 minutes and will fix this problem for all people that updated.

What I need to do is set up a check for the old variable; if it returns true, it updates the new variable. I'd put that in the Main or Init so it's completely discreet (I set up something similar to that for Aeris in Icicle Inn).

Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-10 17:37:02
Just finished the game in 33 hours. Nice ending screen :)

It is a pleasant mod ! I enjoyed it. You did a nice work.
I mostly used magic throughout the game, especially Earth/Break and Bio.It is only at the end that I used physical damage with double cut.

Everything that you added is great, nothing seems off. The bosses design is cool, some made me laugh.
The only slightly negative thing that I see is the difficulty but everything seems easy after the hardcore mod.
You said that you'll work on a hardest version of the mod. I'm looking forward to it.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-10 18:13:46
Hey, you finished it! Glad to hear you enjoyed it, despite the tonne of problems I was supposed to have fixed for this version (I actually remember saying to someone that 1.1's key feature was that it'd be bug-free; if only I'd known how wrong I was). Thanks to your input though, I've been able to fix a lot of it; it wasn't fair that you and others had to deal with all those glitches and oversights so I'm sorry for that.

I was worried that physical attacks would leave magic in the dust fairly early on but it sounds like magic is getting a fair shake, particularly Earth which was sort of useless in the original game (few enemies were weak to it and flying enemies dodged it entirely; the slight damage advantage over other elements was also negligible and negated by the higher MP cost).

Difficulty-wise, I think it's close to fitting in the niche I wanted it to be. The idea was that an experienced player could trust themselves to get through fights reliably and quickly by using provided mechanics like Barrier, Time, elemental weaknesses, etc. while at the same time not alienating less experienced players who might not make full use of these. Then there's the fail-safes for underpowered teams like Paralysis, Stop, Poison, etc. I just wanted it to be accessible to everyone this time and fun to play.

Different story with the hard version; that'll be a nightmare. But first things first. I've fixed a few of the problems, and they should hopefully work now. Patches are pending while I fix up one or two more things.

-) Gold Saucer: added a script that flips the new Aeris variable if the old one is active. I set up triggers to test this, and it seems to be functioning.

-) W-Magic: Fought and killed Abyss, W-Magic dropped when I talked to the NPC. I pored over both NPC scripts and couldn't see an issue there. Not sure why it didn't drop for you, it's a bit of a mystery.

-) Great Glacier: Fixed an issue with the map recording/recalling group Cloud's position/direction rather than party leader #0. Fixed that and Snow's turn script to face party leader BUT found an interesting issue on the World Map. If Cid or Tifa are behind Icicle Inn and they approach, the game has a script to 'bounce' them away and prevent entry. Sort of same thing with Great Glacier, it just blocks access when either these two are displayed on the world map. It can be fixed by PHSing Cloud in as he'll replaced either on the world map but this could be a problem for the period of time when he's missing. So gonna fix that up.

-) Junon: Blocked access to Beginner's Hall (intermediate) for Tifa and Cid party leaders. I'll be expanding the hall at some point and adding something in there. Not sure what yet.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-10 18:51:16
I did not used the party leader change thing (except for doing their quests) so I don't do any test on it.

About W-Magic, it is sure that I didn't get it and I'm pretty sure I had something else but I can't remember what. With no old save left, I can't dot it again. If you saying it's working, it's ok.

I just noticed another problem. After creating a monster for Extra Battle, you can fight it over and over (that way I get 4 ruban [On Abyss I guess]) but if you leave the screen and come back it says that the monster is not available.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-10 19:06:38
The fights are supposed to be repeatable but if it gets locked after leaving and re-entering that's a more a serious problem; I'd better look into that.

Edit: Looks like my extra battle was using temporary variables that are lost when exiting the screen. I changed them to permanent ones but it meant putting more checks to cover previous versions and correct it all.

Edit2: Alright, so it wasn't just the type of variable operation it was addresses used too. I'm swapping all the Extra Battle addresses over to use #3 instead of #5 and #6 (tested an entry with #3 instead and it works, retains memory of it when leaving the field screen and re-entering). Setting up an in-game fix to sort this will likely be tricky because the temporary values aren't saved to the game so what I'm going to do is back-pedal and follow Tenko's suggestion of putting a temporary NPC in place that can unlock every entry in the Extra Battle Menu; it'll also make all the Materia available again for one more pick-up and be at the player's discretion whether to use this NPC or not (the NPC will be removed from the mod after a week or two). Update will be available tomorrow, once I've tested everything thoroughly.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: atro city on 2014-07-11 00:24:11
I was worried that physical attacks would leave magic in the dust fairly early on but it sounds like magic is getting a fair shake, particularly Earth which was sort of useless in the original game (few enemies were weak to it and flying enemies dodged it entirely; the slight damage advantage over other elements was also negligible and negated by the higher MP cost).

If anything it feels like magic might need to be toned down some. Throughout my playthrough magic has had a lead over physical attacks (especially when combined with All) which has only increased as spells became more powerful and more spammable. I just got Bolt3 at Gaea's Cliff and it's wiping most enemy formations in one go.


Quote
Difficulty-wise, I think it's close to fitting in the niche I wanted it to be. The idea was that an experienced player could trust themselves to get through fights reliably and quickly by using provided mechanics like Barrier, Time, elemental weaknesses, etc. while at the same time not alienating less experienced players who might not make full use of these. Then there's the fail-safes for underpowered teams like Paralysis, Stop, Poison, etc. I just wanted it to be accessible to everyone this time and fun to play.

I have a question about this. I have Aeris in my party and she's already busted open some boss battles with Seal Evil. I haven't gotten Planet Protector yet, but is that going to cause severe balance problems when I do? Aeris has by far the most broken limits in the game and I don't want to turn what's been a pretty enjoyable experience so far into a complete cakewalk.

Also, I really enjoyed the Jenova Life fight, it's my favorite boss in the mod so far. It was quite challenging and forced you to have a solid strategy going in.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-11 01:55:20
If anything it feels like magic might need to be toned down some. Throughout my playthrough magic has had a lead over physical attacks (especially when combined with All) which has only increased as spells became more powerful and more spammable. I just got Bolt3 at Gaea's Cliff and it's wiping most enemy formations in one go.

I find that spells require a little more effort to use because the animation is longer, they need to be equipped, and they cost MP so I wanted them to be stronger than physical attacks to compensate. That said, Tier 3 spells are maybe too strong when they're unlocked. In my test playthrough, those were unlocked roughly around the Great Glacier and they land for about 3-5000 damage which kills regular enemies fairly easily even without using an elemental weakness. I was going to handle it by maybe reducing the AP gain from enemies on Disc 1 down to 1.5x instead of 2x.

I have a question about this. I have Aeris in my party and she's already busted open some boss battles with Seal Evil. I haven't gotten Planet Protector yet, but is that going to cause severe balance problems when I do? Aeris has by far the most broken limits in the game and I don't want to turn what's been a pretty enjoyable experience so far into a complete cakewalk.

Also, I really enjoyed the Jenova Life fight, it's my favorite boss in the mod so far. It was quite challenging and forced you to have a solid strategy going in.

Early bosses can be hit with Stop and Paralysis, but this tends to be phased out as you go into Disc 2. Peerless is a big status, but it's like Shield in that it'll run out fairly quickly (it's actually almost useless on Active/High-Speed ATB because it'll run out in two-three turns). It's the other limit breaks like Meteorain, Omnislash, Highwind, etc. that're far more likely to bust the game open. Peerless has a bit more of a strategic turn to it; you can pop that Limit to avoid a super-attack or to get around an enemy that uses counter-attacks.

Ultimate Weapons are also a bit of a concern; the only reason they were kept (mostly) the same is because I didn't want to detract from something that the player has to win from a boss; it'd suck to win Ultima Weapon only to find that it's a weak-sauce version. I'll definitely consider fine-tuning magic, though.

Good to hear that about Jenova LIFE though; she was an awful boss in the last version of the mod.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-11 02:12:33
You could also adjust the AP the materia needs for the next level.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-11 03:00:46
I believe trying to 'balance' physical attacks and magic themselves is the wrong way to go about it. I personally simply varied monster strenghts. If something has 200 magic defense but only 15 physical defense you're going to pick physical attacks even if they're on equal defense levels weaker than magic.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: atro city on 2014-07-11 12:37:13
Quick bug report: On the Weapon Raid at Junon, I was fighting the SOLDIERs and procced Added Effect-Transform and Added Effect-Destruct against them at the same time. As they died it displayed "Cure" and if there were still other enemies, the game stalled indefinitely.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-11 12:54:17
You could also adjust the AP the materia needs for the next level.

Could do. I was worried about blocking access to tier 3 spells for players who don't fight a lot but I put Beta, Aqualung, and Trine further into the game recently so maybe I can get away with making the AP requirement higher.

I believe trying to 'balance' physical attacks and magic themselves is the wrong way to go about it. I personally simply varied monster strenghts. If something has 200 magic defense but only 15 physical defense you're going to pick physical attacks even if they're on equal defense levels weaker than magic.

I did that sometimes for bosses, I set up Schizo to have a physical-immune side and a magical-immune side (one uses physical-based attack and the other uses magical-based ones) so the player would have to mix it up for him. I reckon tweaking both enemies and spells/attacks is the way to go about it.

Quick bug report: On the Weapon Raid at Junon, I was fighting the SOLDIERs and procced Added Effect-Transform and Added Effect-Destruct against them at the same time. As they died it displayed "Cure" and if there were still other enemies, the game stalled indefinitely.

That sounds like something in the game's engine. I'll test that on SOLDIER 2nds and other enemies in the default game to see if it's caused by the mod or not. I'll fix it up either way.

Edit: Seems that glitch happens in the default game too. Combining other statuses, like using Transform + Seal, doesn't cause it. No idea what it is, just that Cure is the very first spell in the kernel's index.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-12 09:42:24
I assume this happens:
Death is the first status. If an attack causes both death and another status, it tries to apply the other status to a dead enemy, which obviously it can't do (you can't frog a dead Cloud either for example)

You'd have to ask NFITC1 for more info on that or debug through the .exe where specifically it handles applying status effect with attacks. This might even be unique to causing both statuses with a physical attack.


On the .exe topic, I heard you fixed Yuffie Warping. Can you share the .exe edit?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-12 12:50:26
I fixed Yuffie Warping? Which thread was that? I remember changing the behavior of Yuffie's escape attack to try and avoid the game-breaking menu glitch that happens when she successfully escapes (because it was more likely with her bolstered move-set that she would escape and the player might unwittingly trigger the glitch and lose progress). The other thing I did recently was set up an Anti-YW/save-edit check that looked for a particular game-moment and another unspecified variable function that's discreetly flipped during the game. The prototype worked, but I removed it after two or three updates so only the first or maybe second wave of flevels have it intact.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-12 16:10:32
I fixed Yuffie Warping? Which thread was that? I remember changing the behavior of Yuffie's escape attack to try and avoid the game-breaking menu glitch that happens when she successfully escapes (because it was more likely with her bolstered move-set that she would escape and the player might unwittingly trigger the glitch and lose progress). The other thing I did recently was set up an Anti-YW/save-edit check that looked for a particular game-moment and another unspecified variable function that's discreetly flipped during the game. The prototype worked, but I removed it after two or three updates so only the first or maybe second wave of flevels have it intact.

Haha, I remember saying this is how I'd fix yuffie warping like when he played through your mod. Kynos has a point though, the 3 people who want to abuse it would cheat in other ways or just use a trainer anyway.
Someone in Kynos chat said you fixed it by changing a "Greater than" check to a "Greater than or equal to" check.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-12 17:28:18
Yep, you could sort of add the extra insurance in of another variable check that isn't covered by a save-editor but at the end of the day it's just a bit of fun, and Yuffie Warping is always interesting to see. The procedure I put in wasn't anything malicious either, it just warped you about the game and unlocked a few new scenes (and a secret battle) before putting you with the Bronco. The battle is still in the scene.bin toward the bottom if you're interested in having a peek.

I don't remember anything about that 'greater than' stuff. As far as I know, the glitch occurs because the way information is passed between the modules isn't fully wiped/overwritten like it is on the Playstation version (which had limited memory) so some of that information would be retained when going through a Game Over. But I guess it could be eradicated if Yuffie was recruited from a field screen like Vincent is rather than a world map battle.

Out of interest, when was this stream? Was it recent or the one from a few months back?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-13 03:28:20
The stream was like, a few days ago? The one where someone said you fixed yuffie warping.

The one where I said I'd fix yuffie warping by having a game moment check in every field was the first playthrough he did of your mod. Remember when he bought 99 grenades and had no money left and save edited items and so forth? Heh.

I still haven't fixed all the bugs in Nightmare and I'm still waiting on someone playing through it so I have some balance feedback. Evidently re-learning the entire game and hardcore difficulty is too much for the people here :/
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-13 13:02:34
Bit strange; I think I might know who it was though but no harm done. I maybe should have adopted the Poverty Mod as the new name, anything's better than New Threat (ugh).

It sounds like you need someone who can a) beat stuff up, and b) troubleshoot on the fly when something goes wrong. What are the install requirements for getting the complete N7 mod? I'll have a bash at it.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-07-13 15:16:48
Iros is back, so we should be able to get support for the scene.bin soon  :)
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-13 15:20:39
Iros is back!  ;D

I could write this in every thread. :P But that's not the reason why I post it here, it could maybe help to make a good installer that he working on his tool again.
A new name: see PM. Sorry a bit over exited so many changes has happened in the past on Qhimm. (Omzy, Ficedula, Iros and Luksy is working on something too I guess.)

Edit:
Damn it. This time you have beaten me EQ2Alyza.  :-D
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-13 16:33:12
So he was coming back for the summer after all. Yeah, this is great news; seems like a bunch of people are coming back, like Ficedula and Obesebear.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-14 07:57:43
Bit strange; I think I might know who it was though but no harm done. I maybe should have adopted the Poverty Mod as the new name, anything's better than New Threat (ugh).

It sounds like you need someone who can a) beat stuff up, and b) troubleshoot on the fly when something goes wrong. What are the install requirements for getting the complete N7 mod? I'll have a bash at it.

Hahahahahahha poverty mod, hahahacoughcoughcoughgackugh... sorry, but this was just too funny because I read it in Kynos voice.

I am nearly always online for contact so I could even do the troubleshooting. I updated the core files and flevel to where I am at now (special grind zones - kills, AP, gil, limits. Yes, there is a special zone for each category to train if you chose to - New story extends to the end of Kalm but haven't updated the hidden items and other stuff)

You basically /should/ run the install over bootleg but you /can/ manually install it. You need the extra bosses from the battle.lgp from the hardcore mod, the animations and stuff from the aerith revival mod (anything else from those mods is already in my flevel and core files so, uh, yeah), menu overhaul (I forgot which options specifically but 9999 break, minigame fixes and some other stuff, check bootleg) and then my mod.
so basically hardcore + aerith revival + menu overhaul + my mod.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-14 17:00:57
Well, that's that installed. Cleared Reactor No.1, I'll put a list together of notes once I've reached the end of Kalm.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-07-14 19:59:32
if you have twitter you should follow me so I don't have to fill your (new)thread(t)(DOHOHOHO kill me now) with offtopic
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-14 20:14:30
if you have twitter you should follow me so I don't have to fill your (new)thread(t)(DOHOHOHO kill me now) with offtopic

I don't have Twitter, I'll just post it in the N7 thread when I'm done. Probably take a few days if the boss HP is anything to go by.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: g0lbez on 2014-07-15 03:04:52
just got to sephiroth and was kinda disappointed his first form was a gimmick battle, especially one that makes you use all the neglected party members D; i still need to beat that form

other than that it's been great to play through, it's obvious a lot of love went into this. i'll check out some of the extra sidequest stuff once i get past this sephiroth thing. the only criticism i have is that i know you've been balancing the game and such to be sort of fun difficulty as opposed to something like the hardcore mod but honestly it is kind of super easy. obviously a bit harder than the base game but we all know how ridiculous the base game is anyway.

although one thing that might've helped was the fact that in the version i downloaded aeris and tifa came initially with their triple ap weapons, since i wasn't sure if that was intended or not i used them but finding the weapons later i kinda realized you might have just forgotten to take them off.

other than that you supposedly balanced the difficulty around people who don't grind but also don't run from battles which is exactly what i do, and i'm definitely not a min-maxer super elite completionist type guy who wants things super ultra go fern yourself difficulty but it could def stand for some more tweaking. although i imagine it is probably super difficult to try and balance things past a certain point, especially trying to hit that sweet spot between base game difficulty and hardcore mod difficulty.

good job on the mod and let me know if you have any questions about my playthrough
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-15 10:48:37
Thanks, bud. Glad you've enjoyed it so far though I agree with you that it could use some tweaking. Thing is, the gap between different play-styles (limit break grinders, fight what you see, and run from everything) gets bigger and bigger as the game goes on and while I thought that 2x Exp, Ap, and Gil would help people close that gap if they found themselves underpowered later on it actually made the problem worse on the other end; the guys grinding for their Lv.3 Limits ended up being super-powered and players taking a 'fight what I run into' approach were also finding themselves ahead of the arc because of the boosted rewards. I'm thinking of maybe turning it down to 1.5 for Exp, and normal for AP but not sure yet.

About Sephiroth in the Whirlwind Maze, the first form was originally a lot tougher but people were saying that it was too much to get through that + the second boss right after it (which was also a lot tougher). So I toned that particular boss fight down a fair bit. That's been the case for a lot of it; just toning down the random fights and some of the bosses (people were save-editing past the bosses in v1.0.5). But I was thinking of maybe adding the option for a Hard Mode; I can re-spec enemies and 'unlock' new attacks by setting a pre-battle AI that checks for a certain variable.  That might be a solution, or a NewGame+ kind of deal with new sidequests/encounters, etc. unlocking on the second playthrough; Kalderasha has been giving me ideas recently.

About the triple-AP weapons, did you start from a pre-existing save-game (like starting from the save point in Reactor 1 to skip the intro) or a New Game? The initial set-up of characters from the game's kernel is determined on a New Game rather than when that character joins the party. It just seems odd they'd have their original starting weapons equipped; I've had their weapons set to Metal Knuckle and Full Metal Staff in the mod's kernel for a while now. Did Aeris join the party with Barrier (Lv.2) + All, Heal, and Revive Materia? Another thing is that Red XIII was supposed to have Earth + Elemental on top of Fire + All; do you remember if he had that equipped when he joined the party?

One thing I'm wondering about though is when you say the Sephiroth battle makes you use all the neglected party members. As far as I'm aware, the game should only make you have Cloud and Tifa in your party for the Whirlwind Maze. Has a third character been locked into your party?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: g0lbez on 2014-07-15 21:33:15
there was a text prompt when fighting bizarro seph that said something like "switch out parties when you defeat a part!" but now that i remember right i think that's in the original game as well and it just gives you the option to switch out or something so nevermind on that front! now that i know i don't need to switch out dudes i'm looking forward to tackling the battle again since it seems pretty decently hard.

the boss after sephiroth in the whirlwind maze i thought was a decent challenge, nothing too crazy but definitely not a "hold down attack button" type thing. i think by the time you get to whirlwind maze you might need to factor in the player being able to reliably deal about 15k damage a turn, since that's about what i was hitting there. by the time you're at whirlwind you probably have accessories for boosting strength and magic by 50, which makes your punch faces dude and mage dude start to dish out some high numbers, not to mention weapons and armor that are innately boosting the same stats as well.

as for the triple ap weapons i think you're right actually, because the first time i played through i didn't apply the mod correctly and i didn't wanna do the intro again so i just hacked the save to start at the first savepoint, no not really a bug there but i guess it kinda diminishes the validity of my playthrough and difficulty opinions since i was using tifa for the most part with her super high strength triple ap weapon...

honestly i can't quite remember what aeris and red started with. i can say with 90% certainty i dont remember aeris starting with barrier but then again most likely due to my save hacking at the start of the game.

also kudos for adding in the extra dialogue regarding aeris so the story makes more sense. i got a bit of a laugh when barrett was all "yeah uh maybe be more careful this time" when getting ready to head back to the forgotten capital
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: g0lbez on 2014-07-15 21:36:42
also i have to call out the demon wall boss in the temple of ancients, really well designed. it's definitely a battle where you go in and get your ass handed to you immediately but is definitely doable when you spend a few minutes getting a nice strat down

edit: so i'm not triple posting i'll just edit this in, but in regards to how you want to adjust the difficulty, adding in a hard mode as you suggested is probably the best idea of course, but i would say if you want to keep this like "fun play however you want mod" then keep in the boosted exp and ap and design the game around that.

the reason i say that is because my main issue with all the super hardcore mods is the limitations on exp and ap severely limit your options in battle and kinda make it less "play how you want" and more "you better have your party set up exactly as the modder intended or you're screwed." i like having access to various playstyles early in the game, it's definitely a good idea to keep in. with this mod i had all sorts of options at my disposal before i even left midgar, when usually everything up to that point in the game is kind of a drag since you're still limited to tier 1 magic and attacking and maybe some strawberriesty items without any of the cool yellow and blue materias and such
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-15 23:04:40
Thanks for all that, pretty encouraging feedback. I'll keep the Exp, AP, Gil as they are for now then and make small tweaks to later bosses. Nothing drastic, just a little extra durability so they have more of a chance to bring some of their mechanics to bear (especially later on; Omnislash is an absolute nightmare so I need to make Zack guard it better). I've started work on a New Game+ but it won't be the player repeating the story again; I'm going to use 7H to convert another mod I was developing into the NG+ scenario. I'm keeping quiet about the details for now, but you start this campaign in the AVALANCHE hideout and Meteor is already falling. The monsters in Midgar, the first area, will be specced for Lv70+ parties who've run through the NT Mod. I'll make a stand-alone version of it where a fresh party can tackle it too.

Don't worry about using those weapons at the start, it won't have made a huge difference in the long run and you'd have been operating without Barrier or Time Materia for a long stretch of the game which more than evens it out.

I think the best way forward is to make small tweaks (nothing drastic that'll undermine what players have done in the mod already) and then keep adding stuff to it. I'm going to make an effort to account for Ultimate Weapons and Lv.4 Limits a little better though.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: atro city on 2014-07-16 11:54:36
After I defeated Ruby Weapon, a green materia spawned at the Kalm traveler's house, but I couldn't pick it up.

Do the materia caves require raising a colored chocobo from scratch? The one that appeared after Ruby Weapon ran away. If so, I think I'll skip doing that. I was reminded how tedious and time-consuming raising a Gold Chocobo is when I did it for the Hardcore mod.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-16 14:05:52
Yeah, I noticed that recently in a video that LCP did. Basically, instead of getting Master Materia you get another boss that gives you Big Guard when you kill it but there must be something I overlooked in the 'clean-up' of the field models. Not a serious issue, but I'll get around to it.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-17 01:48:34
After I defeated Ruby Weapon, a green materia spawned at the Kalm traveler's house, but I couldn't pick it up.

Do the materia caves require raising a colored chocobo from scratch? The one that appeared after Ruby Weapon ran away. If so, I think I'll skip doing that. I was reminded how tedious and time-consuming raising a Gold Chocobo is when I did it for the Hardcore mod.

Hey, you can get a golden chocobo around 45 minutes without racing. Use this video for the steps (pretty easy). You just need morph to get zeio nuts from goblin. If you don't have morph, you can at least make a black chocobo until you get the zeio nuts!

Edit*
Thanks for catching my fail covarr!!
Here's The video link     
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1Cj-XwZVCI
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Covarr on 2014-07-17 02:10:03
Hey, you can get a golden chocobo around 45 minutes without racing. Use this video for the steps (pretty easy). You just need morph to get zeio nuts from goblin.
I tried to use this video but you didn't post a video.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: atro city on 2014-07-17 12:32:18
Hey, you can get a golden chocobo around 45 minutes without racing. Use this video for the steps (pretty easy). You just need morph to get zeio nuts from goblin. If you don't have morph, you can at least make a black chocobo until you get the zeio nuts!

Edit*
Thanks for catching my fail covarr!!
Here's The video link     
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1Cj-XwZVCI

I remember trying RNG methods before to raise a fast Gold Chocobo and it never worked for me.

Well, I think I'm ready to give my feedback on the mod, as I feel like I've found all I'm going to find (around 1/3 of the extra battles are unfought, and I never got Morph). The mod is very well done, and I was surprised at the amount of new content and special sequences. It's obvious this took a long time to make, and the new enemy models are very good (my favorite was "Safer Sith"). To be honest, I didn't know you could do most of the stuff in this mod (the only other one I've played is Hardcore).

As for the difficulty, it started out pretty good. Some of the bosses in Disk 1 felt pretty weak (Red Dragon and Hundred/Heli in particular) but overall it maintained a consistent curve. From my playthrough, I felt that Air Buster, Rufus, Jenova Birth/Life, Materia Keeper, Zack, Ruby Weapon and the Kalm Traveler chocobo were the hardest fights. However, on Disk 2 the difficulty took a big dive. Tier 3 spells made sweeping enemy formations and wrecking bosses easy, and continued to do so all the way through the rest of the game. The combination of increased damage, lower MP cost, more elemental weaknesses and boosted EXP/AP (giving a lot more max MP) meant that I could continuously spam enemies with magic and almost never have to use Ethers or Magic Hammer. It also felt like the bosses did less damage and threw fewer curveballs at you in Disk 2. Of course, once the New Threat sidequests open up in Disk 3, ultimate weapons take over. Those fights were interesting for the most part (probably would have been more interesting if I hadn't gotten one of the most OP weapons [Missing Score] first).

Overall, excellent mod, just needs some balance tweaking in my opinion.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-17 13:48:27
Thanks for the feedback, the general consensus seems to be that Disc 2 and onwards is where the difficulty curve nose-dives because of Tier 3 spells and then the unlocking of Ultimate Weapons. What I'm doing right now is experimenting with different ways to improve things going into that stretch of the game. I'll see about making the Disc 2 bosses a little more interesting as well.

I just can't decide what to do with Ultimate Weapons though. I'm thinking of splitting them up from Lv.4 Limits and setting up new (and harder) content to get those separately; last thing I want to do is nerf them because it'd cheapen the effort needed to get them. Or maybe push them back to NewGame+ content. Hmm.
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-17 14:01:27
Change the scene.bin for disc2.  You could make stronger enemies for the early encounters of the game. The logical explanation is that the beasts enemies go wild by the look of Meteor (let robotic enemies as they are, maybe after Cloud joins to the party, you could make them more powerful, this way it looks like that Shinra reacts to the tougher enemies. Maybe some Soldiers could be encountered too).
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-17 15:48:50
I think I can fit all that into the current scene.bin, I'd like to reserve the second Scene for a NG+ (I'm re-ordering it quite extensively for that one). For improved strength, I can set pre-battle AI to trigger when a global variable is switched (the Pandora's Box one isn't being used for Dragon Zombie anymore, maybe I could use that one?) and have that variable be flipped after killing the Junon Airport boss. There's still plenty of space in the current one too for new enemies, like SOLDIER; should I go for more characterised enemies or stick with anonymous ones though?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: g0lbez on 2014-07-17 19:32:49
any advice for bizzaro seph? i can't seem to do more than 20k to his main part before he recovers
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-17 20:21:15
Here's how Bizarro works. His parts enable different attacks for him to use, but the Core is what lets him use Bizzaro Enegy (as it appears). Usually, you can smash through the torso and not bother with the parts but I set it to give Recovery instead so that his mechanics have to be engaged (unless you get a very lucky Omnislash + Highwind).

To make the Core vulnerable for Team A, you need to kill the Core segments with the other two teams. Start by destroying the Head or one of the Arms with Team A, and swap to another team (it seems to be random, unfortunately, but it cycles to an extent).

Team B and C in their battle need to kill the Head, then the Arm (which has two parts for Team B), and then the Core. If you kill the Arm without killing the Head, then it will revive the Arm and the Core Segment will remain invulnerable. Once you've killed the Head and Arm, you can destroy the Core Segment. Ignore the option to swap teams until you've destroyed that Core Segment, then swap teams.

Hopefully, you'll be put in control of your third team. If not, destroy the Head (which revives for that reason) or the other Arm and select yest to swap again. When you get your third team, do what you did before. Destroy the Head, the Arm, and then the Core Segment. After this, you want to return to Team A.

Team A can now destroy their Core. Kill any remaining Arms (take care of the Head too, I think it enables the core to use Stigma) and start battering the Core. When it dies, Bizarro loses his ability to use Enegy and heal himself. Now you're in the home straight, batter the torso until he dies. The Head will revive periodically to use Heartless Angel and/or Aurora Fence; kill it if you like, it reduces Safer's HP by 200 every time you do.

So it basically requires three parties that are reasonably well-equipped to win through. The idea was that the final bosses would be fought after the other content, so they're quite tough (though Safer may be easier because of his AI pattern and the fact that he's a single-target). Let me know if you encounter problems with the way the battle functions, though it's been tested by myself and I think a few other people have done it too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: FFman on 2014-07-18 10:01:18
I beat Bizzaro with only 1 team, using :
- Aeris : quadra magic + contain, contain + turbo mp, contain + absorb mp.
- Cloud : Double cut.
- Barret : Double cut.

Each character deals 4 * 9999 damage. I just spammed this every turn, hoping that I don't attack the core too much.
I don't remember killing the core actually.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-18 12:29:00
Yeah, with enough firepower (and some luck on targeting if using the multi-target attack like 4x-Cut, etc.) you can blaze through the torso before he can heal himself. I'd planned to make the torso invincible like the Core, but decided to hold that back for the 'hard' version of the mod (which is probably going to be the NG+ expansion of this mod now).

I imagine Safer was a push-over with that amount of damage  :'(
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: ff7rules on 2014-07-19 13:04:05
How Do I defeat Lambda Calcule? I have tried everything
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-19 13:25:11
I don't think anyone's beaten it yet and the solution to the fight is too abstract; so I'm going to change it back to the way it was. I'll have a new scene.bin patch up in the next 15 minutes.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: ff7rules on 2014-07-19 13:30:37
Gonna have to reedit my latest video been trying for 2 hours ......
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-19 13:37:55
Yeah, sorry about that. The idea was to lock up Odin because it's quite a strong summon (the basement key is in a treasure chest nearby, where the Enemy Launcher used to be) but Lambda's solution is too specific. I updated the scene.bin hotfix patch just there; now he'll behave in a similar way to Lost Number but you have to make him transform and kill one of his 'sides' otherwise the battle will keep looping (both sides have a death counter that has them eject the party from the battle, ending the fight).
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: ff7rules on 2014-07-19 13:52:00
I'm curious now what was the way to beat him originally I tried everything getting him to 13 health then using aura 13 one above his level 35 and tried reducing his health to 7 then letting him use it nothing worked! Its ok I was raging quite alot for most part of it so its for the best haha
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-19 14:32:25
Alright, here was the thing:

Lambda's transformations are triggered only if a variable reaches a certain number. It starts at 0 (and is reset to 0 whenever he 'dies'). Attacking him adds 6 (hit him for six) while his 13th Aura adds 13. The number we're looking for is 149. It's a prime number (can only be divided by 1 or itself) and I think the clue was '34 come before it', meaning it's the 35th Prime Number you're after. 'Go one above mine' is a clue to how many times you need to hit him; 14 times. BUT the 14th hit has to land after he's used 13th Aura 3 (or was it 4?) times because it's a counter-attack you're triggering.

Sound ridiculous? Well, you're right. RIP Lambda.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: ff7rules on 2014-07-19 15:15:09
It was a unique idea Ill give you that! I would of never figured that out! I beat him really easily after the patch
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-07-20 21:52:40
I think Lambda fight is still broken, despite the text boxes go away,  he keeps respawning. Ive reinstalled the mod and the new hot fix. Also nothing happening when I visit ancient temple for cait sith.
Is there full cure, and w-itemmagic,summon also :-)?
Anyways Sega awesome work.  5 stars  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [FF7PC] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Travis on 2014-07-21 02:16:43
Ok so how hard is this mod.

I would love to experience some new gameplay mechanics and some cool new battles....

But I'm not trying to grind like hell like Gjoerulv's hardcore mod because I gave up on that when I reached the crater on disc 2.

I find grinding to that point to not only be annoying, but to also be a waste of my time.

So, can I progress at a normal pace through the story without heavy/annoying grinding? And will I need a strawberrieston of hero drinks just to beat some guys because I'm not about that life either.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-21 05:41:40
I think Lambda fight is still broken, despite the text boxes go away,  he keeps respawning. Ive reinstalled the mod and the new hot fix. Also nothing happening when I visit ancient temple for cait sith.
Is there full cure, and w-itemmagic,summon also :-)?
Anyways Sega awesome work.  5 stars  :mrgreen:


Lambda, if killed before transforming, will repeat the fight over and over. His two transformations will 'end' the fight when they're killed by removing the party from the battle. I left that part in so that it wasn't just exactly like the original; I'll double-check that it's working properly and if not I'll drop that mechanic from it too. I'd better re-check Cait Sith too, and all the variables just to be on the safe side; the sidequests won't spawn unless you've reached the bottom of North Cave first (Cloud will receive a phone call from the Highwind about it) and that Cait Sith is in the current party. If he's not appearing at the Temple though then I'll get it fixed.

All the Materia is still available; Full Cure and W-Item/Magic/Summon are rewarded as prizes in the Extra Battle of Battle Square; talk to the middle NPC after killing some of the new bosses there.

Ok so how hard is this mod.

I would love to experience some new gameplay mechanics and some cool new battles....

But I'm not trying to grind like hell like Gjoerulv's hardcore mod because I gave up on that when I reached the crater on disc 2.

I find grinding to that point to not only be annoying, but to also be a waste of my time.

So, can I progress at a normal pace through the story without heavy/annoying grinding? And will I need a sh*tton of hero drinks just to beat some guys because I'm not about that life either.

You don't need to grind at all in this mod, there's always an elemental weakness or status ailment you can make use of and random enemies give 2x Exp, Ap, and Gil; bosses give 4x. If anything you'll probably find the mod to be too easy; enemies may be a bit tougher but your equipment & spells are also stronger, and you'll probably be able to blaze through most things quickly (the idea was to make it quick to play, an average playthrough is probably 30-40 hours). I'm about to make some revisions though, adding some new key features to re-balance things from Disc 2 onwards (the mod becomes too easy past this point because monsters can't keep up with the player character's spells, equipment, and limits).

If anything, you'll probably be going too fast through the story. Someone asked me for a patch that removed EXP from random encounters and then another that removed it from bosses too; progression is very quick.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-07-22 00:46:21
ok thnx for the heads up. I still don't know how to kill Lamba though, he casts aura of 13 a billion times, and I don't see that move that blows out the party. do i have to take a certain ortion of his hp?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-22 13:52:16
I just checked his AI, I still need to remove a line from it. I'll update the scene hotfix patch again (should take 5mins).

When it's updated, you'll need to reduce his HP to halfway and then hit him with either a physical or magical attack (don't kill him). He'll then transform. Kill this new form and the battle should end.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-22 19:23:48
I've been looking for a  final fantasy 7 mod I can play for ages now - and I gotta say I'm not disappointed, nice work man.  So far I've reached North Corel in about 14 odd hours.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-22 20:01:55
Glad you're enjoying it. The mod is something I'm going to be working on intermittently, adding new stuff and adjusting the gameplay based on general feedback. Right now, the consensus is that the game gets too easy from Disc 2 onwards so I'm working on ways to address that without nerfing things, boosting enemies too much, etc.

If you have ideas for new content or want to see something in the mod then let me know.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-22 21:38:35
Well as I noticed earlier about people asking about 0 exp for bosses - would be a good idea, similar to ff8 where bosses battles only netted gil and ap.  Your idea for a new game plus would be something I personally would look forward to.

I'm sure there are loads of things that could be added, whether there even possible to add, like new playable characters or even a side dungeon using already used maps.  My apologies I've had a few too many energy drinks my mind is currently in overdrive lol
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-22 22:32:25
I reduced Boss EXP and AP from 4x down to 1.5x tonight (with adjustments where appropriate) to help with the high level problem. 0 EXP for bosses is something I'd consider but it's a big step; we'll see how the next wave of changes for v1.2 goes across first.

I'd like to see things like that too; the 7H Mod Wrapper would make a side-dungeon more feasible and less of a headache to set up. New characters are maybe outside what can be done right now, otherwise there'd be a lot of mods that bring in new fighters; I'd have to talk to someone with experience with how it works to find out if there's any possibility for a work-around. We can replace characters during the game's run-time using 7H but new ones would need IDs, etc.

Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-07-23 07:02:43
A small suggestion, Cait Sith is a little mediocre in terms of limit breaks, unless your good with manipulating the slots. How hard would it be to give Cait Sith new limit breaks if even possible XD.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Vgr on 2014-07-23 07:07:26
Cait Sith and Vincent's limit breaks are hardcoded and cannot be easily changed. Doable, but hard and probably not worth it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-23 11:56:16
I finally reached Rocket Town NOTE: Powersoul Keeper gave me a scare when he spammed me with Powersoul Combo. As I headed up to see Cid the game crashed on me - It was as I climbed the first ladder, Cloud suddenly began walking back towards the ladder continously.  I had to shut off my laptop.

I will load up the game again see if it was a one off, but will tell you if it does it again.

Cheers

EDIT: Looks like it was just a one off, worked fine when I reloaded.  Also wanted to ask does the Zolom still have Beta? - went back to fight him, twice.  And didn't use it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-23 14:41:16
A small suggestion, Cait Sith is a little mediocre in terms of limit breaks, unless your good with manipulating the slots. How hard would it be to give Cait Sith new limit breaks if even possible XD.

Like VGR said, they're hard-coded. I'm not sure if I've done this correctly for this version (been meaning to check it) but for Vincent I gave him all three transformations for each limit level. The idea was to make them more versatile and to set up each level as having it's own gauge rate. Lv.1 fills fast, Lv.2 fills slowly, and Lv.3 never fills (so Vince can keep his attack command free). Lv.4 is the same as ever, just Chaos on that. I also set up a FF7.exe file that makes tweaks to limit breaks; it's not part of the mod, but might be useful as an optional extra.

I finally reached Rocket Town NOTE: Powersoul Keeper gave me a scare when he spammed me with Powersoul Combo. As I headed up to see Cid the game crashed on me - It was as I climbed the first ladder, Cloud suddenly began walking back towards the ladder continously.  I had to shut off my laptop.

I will load up the game again see if it was a one off, but will tell you if it does it again.

Cheers

EDIT: Looks like it was just a one off, worked fine when I reloaded.  Also wanted to ask does the Zolom still have Beta? - went back to fight him, twice.  And didn't use it.

That's the dreaded ladder glitch; try to be careful when coming off a ladder to avoid pressing the confirm button or to be running back at the ladder. It can happen in a few places.

Zolom no longer has Beta, that was moved to Pollensalta. Stilva will have Beta as well when the next scene.bin update goes in (he still uses Magic Breath for now). Zolom was supposed to have a spell called Alpha replacing Beta but I just found the problem with why he wasn't using it and that's been fixed.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-25 19:29:31
Hi!

I have two quick questions regarding this mod

How many enemy skills had their users changed and is the increased AP requirements for leveling materia compensated by the increased AP gained from battles? I ask this because I don't feel like getting level 2 spells at Mt. Nibel and if thats the case I'll just pass offensive green materia.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-25 21:02:58
Alright, so first off the AP requirements were only adjusted slightly. You'll probably get Tier 2 Magic spells around about these areas depending on your approach.
-) Rush (run from most fights): Gold Saucer Area
-) Standard (1-3 battles per area, or fight what you see): Junon Area
-) Grind (Probably in Midgar)

If you rush, you can use 2x Growth equipment to quickly make back the lost AP from Junon Docks onwards if the Materia hasn't leveled up yet. I recently boosted the requirement for Tier 3 spells so they'll hopefully pop after the Whirlwind Maze but by this point the gulf created by each player's approach makes this difficult to predict. Just know that you won't need hours upon hours to unlock a spell; even if you don't use 2x AP equipment you'll still be getting spells quite quickly. I had to up the requirement for Tier 3 because people were unlocking it at around the Temple of the Ancients and complaining that they were finding fights too easy after that. I made the adjustments to account for that.

But it's also important to know that the spells themselves were made slightly stronger and cost less MP. Most enemies have a consistent elemental weakness too which doubles the damage. Bugs, vermin, and other common enemies like wolves tend to be weak to Ice and Fire. Mechanical enemies are weak to Bolt and Water (which is surprisingly inconsistent across mechanical enemies in the default game). Heavy or large enemies can be hit hard with Earth but are resistant to Gravity and Wind, while flying enemies are the opposite; immune to Earth but weak to Gravity and Wind. And there's actual elemental affinities too; Aps, which uses Water attacks, is resistant to Fire but weak to Bolt. The idea was to make it more intuitive to tell what an enemy is weak to just by looking at it without having to use Sense (but that's there as a back-up if you're ever unsure).

But this is where I'm going to talk about where Spells, E. Skills, and Summons are (supposed) to fit in with each other. In the regular game, Enemy Skills blow Magic spells right out of the water. In fact, they also out-power most Summons as well and are faster to cast in terms of Animation (and can be cast more than once from the out-set and be equipped to 2 people by Junon, and then 3 people by the Forgotten City). This used to be 'balanced' off by E.Skills being hard to find (at least originally, everyone knows where they are or can find them within minutes thanks to strategy guides and FAQs) but this is no longer the case.

So I balanced and moved certain E.Skills around to try and have them plug potential gaps in the player's arsenal instead of outright replacing that arsenal early on. I'll give information on where they were moved to, effect changes (if any) and my reasoning for each decision. If an E. Skill isn't listed here, or no mention is made of it being moved, then assume that it's the same as in the original version.

-) Frog Song: Reduced chance to inflict Sleep + Frog to 80%, and higher MP cost. Keeps Transform and Sleepel (which are reliable) in the game. The Magic Materia has a benefit of Support Materia but I need to balance it against E. Skills natural utility in having so many versatile spells in one slot. This was kept in mind for the rest of the revisions listed below.

-) White Wind: Still the same, but it only heals Sleep and Confusion (being a physical-formula spell). Probably still too powerful.

-) Big Guard: In the regular game this makes Barrier/MBarrier and Haste obsolete before/just as they become available because it has a cheaper cost overall and affects all targets. It also has convenience on it's side as it comes in a stack with other E. Skills and the animation is faster than two animations. I moved this to much later in the game as a result. The player obtains Barrier and MBarrier when Aeris joins the party, and Haste/Time when Yuffie is recruited (so as early as the Junon area).

You could argue that there will be times when individual statuses like Haste, Barrier, and MBarrier might not be beneficial in certain scenarios and that Big Guard lacks versatility (and the spells they replace are cheaper to cast alone though not together) but this doesn't hold back the sheer utility of the spell in the majority of situations where having all three statuses on the party will be beneficial.

-) Angel Whisper: Still with Pollensalta, this spell has lost it's status-ailment healing to Full Cure (which now gives a 100% Heal + Esuna for a hefty MP cost). It still revives from KO, but only heals 50% of the target's HP. It balances nicely with Full Cure and other healing spells I've found.

-) Dragon Force: This breaks the end-game when natural defences creep higher and higher. Like Big Guard, it's now won from a boss that you fight after giving one of the three items to the Kalm Traveller. As this mod uses very few defence-ignoring attacks, a high defence coupled with this will make the player almost invincible. Still broken in my eyes but I wasn't about to remove it or nerf it until it became useless; a common dilemma I've found.

-) Flamethrower: This spell is a small 'plug' between Tier 1 and Tier 2 spells. It has a higher base power than the Tier 1 Fire, but is utterly out-stripped by Fire2 when it becomes available. If the player has reached Junon Area and Tier 2 is still out of sight then this'll bolster their arsenal a bit until they unlock it, along with Matra Magic. They're not necessary to progress, though.

-) Laser: This is a problem for two reasons. First, it enables a cheap Demi2 early on which makes it less likely for people to use Gravity Materia and second it becomes utterly useless itself when Demi 2 is finally unlocked and can be combined with Support Materia like All or Quad. So I changed it to inflict 1/5th of MaxHP as damage (instead of current HP like the regular Demi spells do). Makes it useful for landing the killing blow against enemies with high HP.

-) Bad Breath: Reduced the chance for the ailments to be inflicted; reins in it's power immensely and makes Malboro-type enemies easier to fight. Keeps status magic in the game, to an extent; the utility of Bad Breath is still far greater but any further nerf would make it too useless for the player or enemies to use. I may need to consider something else rather than accuracy/status-chance but for now this is how it's been set up.

-) Beta, Aqualung, Trine: These three spells derailed Magic completely in the default game, dealing considerably more damage for less MP and hitting all targets to boot. Support Materia doesn't close the gap until things like Ultima, Comet, and Contain are available so Fire3, etc. mostly became useless.

In this mod, these spells are instead used to bridge the gap between Tier2 and Tier3 spells transitioning from Disc 1 to Disc 2 (or this is the hope, at least). Their base power was dropped to 34-38, but had some additional effects added on like Instant KO and Paralysis (small chance). Trine is available from Garuda enemies on Da Chao, Wutai. Aqualung is available from Acrophies in the Forgotten City. And Beta is available from Stilva on the Gaea's Cliffs, replacing Magic Breath (Beta is also available again from Pollensalta if it's missed). This ensures that Tier2 and early Summon spells are not immediately made obsolete by these E.Skills with the bonus of giving the player some additional firepower when Tier2 spells might start to come short (though these should all still be quite deadly going up to the Whirlwind Maze).

-) Magic Breath: Stronger than a Tier 3 spell and with a Debarrier effect now, I pushed this toward the end of the game. Malboros in the Crater now have it, as well as one of the Extra Battle bosses. It's Shout Element now too, making it more versatile than the original but perhaps less likely to deal double damage; the Debarrier effect makes up for that. Has a high base power of 77, just like the original; it'll potentially be competing with Contain, Comet, etc. by this point.

-) Shadow Flare: Given the 'Hidden' Element and now ignores defence; it's for getting around certain optional bosses that were given high defence as part of a special mechanic (like the Blue Materia Cave boss for instance). It won't affect enemies that are immune or absorb this element, making it fairly useless in the North Crater and against certain other bosses. I should probably lock up this spell better but for now it's available from Ultimate Weapon and the repeatable Extra Battle boss Tyrant.

-) Pandora's Box: Same as S. Flare, except now it's only available from a Kalm Traveler boss.

Where do Summons come in? It depends on the time of the game it becomes available. Choco/Mog -> Titan are all similar in power to Tier2 spells but they hit groups without having their damage reduced (like Fire2+All would) and each inflict a nasty status ailment to boot. They're there for early-game nuke strats (if the player doesn't mind the extra time from the animation) or to patch up the player's attacks if Tier 2 hasn't unlocked yet. The mid-game summons like Bahamut and Leviathan are a fair bit stronger, as it's around this time the animations get longer. The general idea is that no matter where you are in the game, and no matter how you played up until that point, you'll always have some kind of firepower to fall back on. But you should hopefully not get stuck because the EXP + AP given are higher and you can win fights just as quick as before so long as you pay attention and use weaknesses to your advantage, just like in any tactical RPG.

I can't say I've got this balance exactly right yet. There are problems later on where the mod becomes too easy because of Tier 3 spells unlocking too fast or Ultimate Weapons becoming available. On the other hand, some people have found it tough-going in places; your personal experience and approach always plays a part in any game's difficulty. What I try to do is make subtle revisions that help patch up glaring faults in the mod based on everyone's feedback.

TL;DR (what is this 'brevity' of which you speak?)
Extra AP from enemies more than handles the slightly higher AP requirement for certain levels of spells.
Certain Enemy Skills moved about and re-tuned but had a reason for doing so in each case.

Conclusion: Use Magic spells, they're really useful now. Maybe too useful.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-25 21:45:34
Thanks for the answer. I don't mind reading long posts as long as they say something. And I sure loved to know what your approach was.

From what I've read I can pretty much applaud your efforts. But having yet to play the mod extensively, I can not tell you much. What I can say however is that if you're having trouble finding when should X materia level up, just try to force it. For example: people usually get lvl2 spells before Corel. If you think this should be the appropriate place, have the enemies until then give out little AP, so that the materia should hardly level up, unless there's some serious grinding involved (a few hours perhaps), and then, around Corel, have enemies granting a lot more AP. Like instead of giving out 10 or 20 a battle have them give 70 or 80.

Back in the days a lot of RPGs did that. They used a system called "frontier bosses". Enemies that you would have to fight before progressing and that were faced in areas that you could go back from and shop or rest if needed (no entrapment). In this case, imagine that when you were expecting players to reach lvl2 spells before Junon. So? You would make the damn serpent thing a lot harder, so that Fire 2 would be needed (that and have it be immune to poison). That way players would have to train to get AP.

But considering the damage output and how you're having difficulties balancing it out by the end of the game, if I understand the damage mechanics correctly, most thinks rely on the characters level to determine damage, correct? Then its quite easy: considerably lower the EXP values of all encounters, and let the AP untouched. That way players will still have access to high level spells but they won't deal much damage because the level multiplier is too low. Fighting Jenove Life with a level 30 party should be interesting. It would drastically change the gameplay, however, as pure attacking would become ratter useless (unless your reduced significantly the enemy's defense and raised magic defense). It would certainly make the game more materia oriented. Therefore maybe more slots on equipment? Or more materia avaliable that would be otherwise unattainable until disc 2?

Just some brainstorming. But if you're trying to push for a strategic type of gameplay, more materia and less physical is the way to go. I always disliked how the materia system had so much potential and by the time you got the really good stuff it would just be plain easier to spam attacks... Sure, W-Magic Quadramagic Comet 2 is great! But by the time you had cast 8 Comet 2 you could have spammed 30 attacks.

Therefore, it might be interesting to null or greatly reduce the ultimate weapons multipliers, so that only a character with 255 str and 255 luck can inflict 9999. That or have enemies with pornographic amounts of HP and have a break 9999 cap thing in the mod. Other interesting idea would be having all final weapons use the Death Penalty multiplier, so that you needed to use them for a LONG time before they become overpowered. And by that time, most materia would have reached master anyway.

If you need crash dummies let me know. I've been doing this since Celtic was kicking Ranger's arse :P
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-25 22:04:27
That almost answered the question I was going to ask.  So by the sounds of it I haven't really missed any of the enemy skills (currently on disc 2 - on the huge materia hunt.)

One more thing.  The higher level magics, are they now part of the extra battles and side quests (just to ensure I've not missed anything)

Cheers
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-25 22:22:02
First of all, to Lappers: Yeah, the Enemy Skills were pushed further into the game. Word to the wise, take plenty of Greens and maintain MBarrier when you fight Yahcobo for Pandora's Box. He uses it when he dies (same with the other two Enemy Skills learned from the Kalm Traveler) and he reduces his own magic stat before using it but it still hits quite hard. Should be 2000 or so with MBarrier up, less if Sadness is on. As for the high-level stuff like Contain, they can be earned by killing Extra Battle bosses and talking to the NPC in the middle. He dishes the Materia prizes out.

To Loseless:

What I can say however is that if you're having trouble finding when should X materia level up, just try to force it. For example: people usually get lvl2 spells before Corel. If you think this should be the appropriate place, have the enemies until then give out little AP, so that the materia should hardly level up, unless there's some serious grinding involved (a few hours perhaps), and then, around Corel, have enemies granting a lot more AP. Like instead of giving out 10 or 20 a battle have them give 70 or 80.

I don't like the idea of interfering too much with player progression (I'm already taking a risk by locking up strong end-game magic and moving 'staple' enemy skills like Beta from their original locations; one of the most frequent questions I get is: Where's Beta?). That being said, I've been thinking that multiplying a value tends to be a bad way to do things and that's essentially what I did with Exp, AP, and Gil. I tuned it all down to 1.5 (and only 2x instead of 4x for bosses) but I think I should do this properly now and micro-manage each number. Heavy on time, though.

Back in the days a lot of RPGs did that. They used a system called "frontier bosses". Enemies that you would have to fight before progressing and that were faced in areas that you could go back from and shop or rest if needed (no entrapment). In this case, imagine that when you were expecting players to reach lvl2 spells before Junon. So? You would make the damn serpent thing a lot harder, so that Fire 2 would be needed (that and have it be immune to poison). That way players would have to train to get AP.

That's an interesting concept, but it's going back to the interference thing. I want a player who has good strategy and experience with the game to be able to progress without being barred because they haven't been playing for long enough; that approach might be okay for a brand new game or gatewayed MMO content but a mod like this is essentially a rehash of the old game, and it has to try and make it worth the player's time to trudge through old ground. If I purposely block people and demand that they grind for spells it's not going to go across well; they've taken a chance on the mod and invested their time, so I need to be careful not to waste that time if I can.

But considering the damage output and how you're having difficulties balancing it out by the end of the game, if I understand the damage mechanics correctly, most thinks rely on the characters level to determine damage, correct? Then its quite easy: considerably lower the EXP values of all encounters, and let the AP untouched. That way players will still have access to high level spells but they won't deal much damage because the level multiplier is too low. Fighting Jenove Life with a level 30 party should be interesting. It would drastically change the gameplay, however, as pure attacking would become ratter useless (unless your reduced significantly the enemy's defense and raised magic defense). It would certainly make the game more materia oriented. Therefore maybe more slots on equipment? Or more materia avaliable that would be otherwise unattainable until disc 2?

You're right, level is a big influence on damage calculation (I've been running a Lv.1 challenge on and off, even with 150+ attack I can still barely do 75 damage). Assuming the damage difference between Lv.30 and Lv.50 is high enough that could cover the Disc 2 problem I've been having. I'll have to experiment with it first, it's a big step to make a change like that and takes time to implement. Just worried I might cut off players who aren't as experienced or who didn't fight a lot of encounters. Less EXP = tougher to recover.

Just some brainstorming. But if you're trying to push for a strategic type of gameplay, more materia and less physical is the way to go. I always disliked how the materia system had so much potential and by the time you got the really good stuff it would just be plain easier to spam attacks... Sure, W-Magic Quadramagic Comet 2 is great! But by the time you had cast 8 Comet 2 you could have spammed 30 attacks.

Therefore, it might be interesting to null or greatly reduce the ultimate weapons multipliers, so that only a character with 255 str and 255 luck can inflict 9999. That or have enemies with pornographic amounts of HP and have a break 9999 cap thing in the mod. Other interesting idea would be having all final weapons use the Death Penalty multiplier, so that you needed to use them for a LONG time before they become overpowered. And by that time, most materia would have reached master anyway.

Yeah, physical hits greatly out-power magic in terms of speed later in the game. I boosted spells a little, but because the Ultimate Weapons are fairly easy to get it pretty much kills the mod dead on Disc 3. I knew it would, but I didn't feel comfortable nerfing those weapons when people had earned them from a boss fight. The current planned solution is to move them to another set of content that's much harder than the current ones; that way I've got an excuse to make some new stuff for it (which makes up for, y'know, moving them). I considered the Death Penalty thing for a bit but they'd be hitting for paltry damage when acquired which wouldn't have gone across too well.

If you need crash dummies let me know. I've been doing this since Celtic was kicking Ranger's arse :P

Cheers, I'll maybe throw some alpha material your way if I need a second opinion on something. But...how did you know I was a Rangers fan? D:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-25 23:12:47
You're right, level is a big influence on damage calculation (I've been running a Lv.1 challenge on and off, even with 150+ attack I can still barely do 75 damage). Assuming the damage difference between Lv.30 and Lv.50 is high enough that could cover the Disc 2 problem I've been having. I'll have to experiment with it first, it's a big step to make a change like that and takes time to implement. Just worried I might cut off players who aren't as experienced or who didn't fight a lot of encounters. Less EXP = tougher to recover.

The thing is, even if the player was lazy during first disc and skipped many fights, making the party avg level stay at a low 27, the exp difference from the second disc encounters would easily make them catch up. But this is exactly the point: fighting a lot in the first disc might not grand much experience, but it would grant AP. So what if a player gets lvl3 spells in the first disc? I did it a few times. Its quite easy with double AP equip while fighting the monsters in Junon or Mideel. But while getting high level materia this early might seem "broken", remember that the HP and MP would still be low and the level multiplier would reduce the damage. This is though to test, I know, but try using Black Chocobo to edit saves. Try fighting the same monsters with different levels, weapons, materia and stats, so you can conceive a balanced approach.

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Yeah, physical hits greatly out-power magic in terms of speed later in the game. I boosted spells a little, but because the Ultimate Weapons are fairly easy to get it pretty much kills the mod dead on Disc 3. I knew it would, but I didn't feel comfortable nerfing those weapons when people had earned them from a boss fight. The current planned solution is to move them to another set of content that's much harder than the current ones; that way I've got an excuse to make some new stuff for it (which makes up for, y'know, moving them). I considered the Death Penalty thing for a bit but they'd be hitting for paltry damage when acquired which wouldn't have gone across too well.

That was my first thought "why not make the final weapons harder to find?", but the result is the same: when you get them = no more spells. I don't know how the limitations on the hex behind the damage formulas and multipliers, I assume that they follow a ordinary hex pattern. So the max attack a weapon can have should be 255. If so, why not make the final weapons have attack stat above 100, while removing the damage multiplier, or at least trading it for another more subtle (Death Penalty, for example, which could work wonders with break damage limit).

That way players could still deal high magic damage against enemies (who would have much higher defense than magical defense) with a W-Magic or Quadramagic high level spell, while a single attack would do much less - and that should be the point. A punch to the face shouldn't hurt more than getting hit with half a dozen meteorites! This is offset by MP cost and practicability, but the game never makes us run out of MP. I don't know if you ever player Dungeon and Dragons, but that game had one thing that console RPGs never had: it made you appreciate magic. Your mage could only use half a dozen spells before drying and each one counted. Of course they hit hard and that should be the point. You shouldn't be able to cast 6 or 7 Ultimas in a single battle. But each one should hurt like the holy hell. But MP Absorb, Ethers and Magic Hammer pretty much make this pointless.

Another example: you certainly know how in FF8 nobody uses magic. Its more useful to have 100 spells junctioned to attributes than casting spells. So everybody goes on linking 100 Meteor or Ultima to STR and hitting everything with swords. But how many people have actually tried to cast Meteor with 255 MAG while on Triple? No attack can beat that. Its slow, sure. But specially if Rinoa uses this with Angel Wings... Well, 10 x 3000 x 3... It beats pretty much all limits, except for Zell's (which its a lot of busywork).

Some other thoughts:

EXP Plus in Aeris's garden is just random. Gil Plus would have been much more interesting, specially if this is the kind of mod where weapons, materia and items are expensive and can't be bought mindlessly. Also, since potions are now so much more useful, shouldn't their price increase? Same goes for tents, as they are too cheap (maybe allowing them to resurrect and heal status to justify the increased price). Or maybe having them stop recovering MP. This would certainly make magic much more interesting. Right now you can't really boost it much more, because Ethers are cheap and Tents are cheaper. So casting spells is no big deal. But if you could only recover MP with Inns or Ethers, it would make having powered spells more expensive worthwhile.

Also, some old RPGs used to have optional enemies drop items that you would only be able to buy much later, but were very tough enemies that required much preparation and tactics. Why not try this in order to give players the option of getting useful materia early on (Like Sneak Attack, Magic Counter, etc)? Of course the bosses would need to be identified or close to a save point, so that players don't get bad surprises. Or make them possible to flee.

Another idea is to have some bosses be stronger than the usual ones. In some games there are two kinds of boss themes: the regular and the "of sh!t". The song that plays when Sapphire attacks Junon would sound great against some powerful bosses.

And as for what gamers might like or dislike if you mess with the game too much, well, most people don't like big changes. The only console RPG I know that has a great hard and very hard mode is Star Ocean 2. On VH you die a lot, but since the gameplay is the greatest of its kind when it comes to customizing and planning, a seasoned player can overcome the difficulty and eventually beat the game. Not that it makes them less likely to die 100 times... But thats expected. And thats the key: people don't mind about things they're expecting. You can change the power of things or make them a little different, as long as they know them.

Personally I wouldn't have moved Beta, Aqualung and Trine. I would have make them stronger than lvl2 spells, considerably weaker than lvl 3, but with the usual advantage: multi hitting without All. People wouldn't mind that as much. As for the other huge Enemy Skills, Angel Whisper stays pretty much the same. White Wind is overpowered, but it will always be. Its the only way offensive characters can heal effectively (at least I don't have Restore on the three party members). It might be great, but it might also be crap. Depends on the user's HP. Boosting its cost to where it would stay between Cure 2 and 3 would be interesting, as Cure 3 should heal around 4K with the power boost. No character should have that much HP by the time you get Cure 3. That makes White Wind not as useful (except for the status healing thing). Big Guard is interesting, but it would be more so if you could change the duration of barriers depending on the source. For instance, Wall should last a lot longer tha the usual Barrier. And Big Guard should last a minute or so. Otherwise you can let it be like it was on the original game and target only the caster, for an high MP cost (Haste + Wall in one go). Anyway, people only use it for the haste. Barriers go away too fast. Thats why Protect Rings are worthless.


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Cheers, I'll maybe throw some alpha material your way if I need a second opinion on something. But...how did you know I was a Rangers fan? D:

Please... Like there are many people from Glasgow who don't go nuts for the Rangers :P
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Travis on 2014-07-26 00:39:19
This is odd.

I currently am in the Desert Prison and i have yet to get a tier 2 magic spell.

I even fight several times per area.

Idk, I think I'm close idk. Playing some more tongith.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-26 00:47:04
This is odd.

I currently am in the Desert Prison and i have yet to get a tier 2 magic spell.

I even fight several times per area.

Idk, I think I'm close idk. Playing some more tongith.

Hmm, maybe I was wrong. You should be okay though; if you find attacks aren't strong enough, consider using Earring for a magic boost. You should have got one from Motorball/Rubicante. Summons can close it up a bit too. How much AP do you need for tier 2 from where you are? I got them around Gongaga but I thought that might be because I was rushing through for testing.

The thing is, even if the player was lazy during first disc and skipped many fights, making the party avg level stay at a low 27, the exp difference from the second disc encounters would easily make them catch up. But this is exactly the point: fighting a lot in the first disc might not grand much experience, but it would grant AP. So what if a player gets lvl3 spells in the first disc? I did it a few times. Its quite easy with double AP equip while fighting the monsters in Junon or Mideel. But while getting high level materia this early might seem "broken", remember that the HP and MP would still be low and the level multiplier would reduce the damage. This is though to test, I know, but try using Black Chocobo to edit saves. Try fighting the same monsters with different levels, weapons, materia and stats, so you can conceive a balanced approach.

I'll need to talk to the people who've played through the mod for their thoughts on the early-game. If they enjoyed it, then it'll be staying the same. I'll be testing a few things in any case. Pre-battle AI that changes enemy stats past a certain player level was something I'd been developing. 7H offers solutions too. Feedback was generally positive going through Disc 1 so I'm reluctant to change it too much.

That was my first thought "why not make the final weapons harder to find?", but the result is the same: when you get them = no more spells. I don't know how the limitations on the hex behind the damage formulas and multipliers, I assume that they follow a ordinary hex pattern. So the max attack a weapon can have should be 255. If so, why not make the final weapons have attack stat above 100, while removing the damage multiplier, or at least trading it for another more subtle (Death Penalty, for example, which could work wonders with break damage limit).

As far as I'm aware, the Weapon attack stat combines with the Strength stat to form the actual attack stat for battle which itself caps at 255 (limiting how effective a weapon with a regular damage formula can be past a certain point). The Ultimate Weapons themselves use special formulas that could only be changed using hex-editing. The Death Penalty effect makes sense on paper but I think it'd take too long to power them up, even going into a new game+. What I originally considered doing was using the earlier weapon effects like Yoshiyuki but I stuck with the default effects to be safe. But considering the effect they have on the mod's balance it might be unavoidable to change them, even if moved to later on.

That way players could still deal high magic damage against enemies (who would have much higher defense than magical defense) with a W-Magic or Quadramagic high level spell, while a single attack would do much less - and that should be the point. A punch to the face shouldn't hurt more than getting hit with half a dozen meteorites! This is offset by MP cost and practicability, but the game never makes us run out of MP. I don't know if you ever player Dungeon and Dragons, but that game had one thing that console RPGs never had: it made you appreciate magic. Your mage could only use half a dozen spells before drying and each one counted. Of course they hit hard and that should be the point. You shouldn't be able to cast 6 or 7 Ultimas in a single battle. But each one should hurt like the holy hell. But MP Absorb, Ethers and Magic Hammer pretty much make this pointless.

Another example: you certainly know how in FF8 nobody uses magic. Its more useful to have 100 spells junctioned to attributes than casting spells. So everybody goes on linking 100 Meteor or Ultima to STR and hitting everything with swords. But how many people have actually tried to cast Meteor with 255 MAG while on Triple? No attack can beat that. Its slow, sure. But specially if Rinoa uses this with Angel Wings... Well, 10 x 3000 x 3... It beats pretty much all limits, except for Zell's (which its a lot of busywork)

Problem is, there's plenty of ways to hit multiple times with physical attacks in this game. Even makeshift combos like Mug + Added Cut can quickly get out of hand and that's not to mention multi-hit limits like Omnislash, Doom of the Living, etc or 4x-Cut. But there's another problem, this one mechanical. The physical attack formula has an inverse relationship with the magical one. At the beginning, when base stats are low, a spell with base power of 8 will hit for about 200 damage while a physical attack with a base power of, say, 16 will hit for 40-50 damage on the same base stat. But as the game goes on, that balance swings. That needs to be taken into consideration when balancing spells and attacks. Multi-hit Materia doesn't simplify things, unfortunately.

And yeah, I've tried that; it killed my FF8 'challenge': http://youtu.be/jBFjsNAtJDg?list=PLHycnnWEuVLxCo4DneCm5e-uuNvk14deW

EXP Plus in Aeris's garden is just random. Gil Plus would have been much more interesting, specially if this is the kind of mod where weapons, materia and items are expensive and can't be bought mindlessly. Also, since potions are now so much more useful, shouldn't their price increase? Same goes for tents, as they are too cheap (maybe allowing them to resurrect and heal status to justify the increased price). Or maybe having them stop recovering MP. This would certainly make magic much more interesting. Right now you can't really boost it much more, because Ethers are cheap and Tents are cheaper. So casting spells is no big deal. But if you could only recover MP with Inns or Ethers, it would make having powered spells more expensive worthwhile.

The EXP Plus was originally guarded by a boss fight but it was a terrible fight so I removed it. I actually keep EXP Plus there for my own reasons; I hate when a party member falls behind in levels so that helps me keep things consistent. I can see people using it to just bolster Cloud as high as possible but it stays where it is (that's the one concession I'm making for myself  :-P). The boosted gil alone should be enough to buy most things you need, though I've seen a player not have enough to buy much so that'll depend on approach again (and what you buy earlier, though I give the player some expensive early Materia like Heal and Earth which means they don't need to necessarily buy it in Kalm).

Item effects (as used from the menu) is hard-coded to the .exe while in-battle effects are determined by the kernel and easier to edit. Limiting MP might have the opposite effect, making players very conservative with magic. Ease of play is the concern there, particularly when facing off against unfamiliar enemies and bosses where MP consumption could be high.

I had optional bosses in here once, guarding certain chests and Materia. They were mostly relegated to new random enemies though. I'll consider that idea though because it's quite interesting; my only concern is that people might 'break their back' trying to beat these optional bosses and become discouraged. If I make it clear it's optional then that might do the trick; Keeper was supposed to be optional but most people beat him when they see him.

And as for what gamers might like or dislike if you mess with the game too much, well, most people don't like big changes. The only console RPG I know that has a great hard and very hard mode is Star Ocean 2. On VH you die a lot, but since the gameplay is the greatest of its kind when it comes to customizing and planning, a seasoned player can overcome the difficulty and eventually beat the game. Not that it makes them less likely to die 100 times... But thats expected. And thats the key: people don't mind about things they're expecting. You can change the power of things or make them a little different, as long as they know them.

About that, the Hardcore mod is basically this. There will be a lot of game overs, but learning their weaknesses and then coming up with a strategy will yield results. Outwardly, it can seem too much but it's a deceptively well-balanced mod. You can even win with a Lv.1 party so long as your planning and preparation are sound: http://youtu.be/cimAw1T5Qvo?list=PLHycnnWEuVLzFsl_Rjk_mrIf0bdJclqq2

Personally I wouldn't have moved Beta, Aqualung and Trine. I would have make them stronger than lvl2 spells, considerably weaker than lvl 3, but with the usual advantage: multi hitting without All. People wouldn't mind that as much. As for the other huge Enemy Skills, Angel Whisper stays pretty much the same. White Wind is overpowered, but it will always be. Its the only way offensive characters can heal effectively (at least I don't have Restore on the three party members). It might be great, but it might also be crap. Depends on the user's HP. Boosting its cost to where it would stay between Cure 2 and 3 would be interesting, as Cure 3 should heal around 4K with the power boost. No character should have that much HP by the time you get Cure 3. That makes White Wind not as useful (except for the status healing thing). Big Guard is interesting, but it would be more so if you could change the duration of barriers depending on the source. For instance, Wall should last a lot longer tha the usual Barrier. And Big Guard should last a minute or so. Otherwise you can let it be like it was on the original game and target only the caster, for an high MP cost (Haste + Wall in one go). Anyway, people only use it for the haste. Barriers go away too fast. Thats why Protect Rings are worthless.

That right there is crazy talk. The second you get Beta/Aqua/Trine (in the form you described), it's effectively GG not just for Tier 2 spells and summons at that level but also for the enemies that are going to be decimated by it. I could make them harder to obtain by buffing the enemies that carry them, but it's only delaying the inevitable. And I can say from experience that for all the short-comings of Big Guard and White Wind, they're still way too strong for the Magic spells (W.Wind ignores MBarrier because it's a 'set' value, for instance). Barriers are also incredibly useful because their damage reduction is %-based and stacks with everything else; not using them is like crippling yourself; Haste is only useful if you're getting a turn advantage.

Please... Like there are many people from Glasgow who don't go nuts for the Rangers :P

Hmmmmm, I supposed you had a 50/50 chance. Or did you roll for intuition?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Travis on 2014-07-26 05:28:06
I'm have 2000-3000 AP to go on most of my materia to get to Bolt2, Ice 2, Fire 2, etc.

Cloud is already like level 28 though.

So idk what the issue is.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-26 08:35:20
Alright, so first off the AP requirements were only adjusted slightly. You'll probably get Tier 2 Magic spells around about these areas depending on your approach.

Etc etc...

Conclusion: Use Magic spells, they're really useful now. Maybe too useful.

When you stated all this magic stuff, most of this was already included in the mod originally or at least up to the July 12th update right? Or will some of the changes be part of a new update?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-26 09:06:42
Coin tosses are underrated :P

Still about Beta, Trine and Aqualung: If Beta's attack power is 3 3,375 x base, Fire2 1,25 x base and Fire3 4 x base, then you could reduce Beta to 1 or something like that. It would still be stronger against multi targets than a regular Fire 2, plus non reflectable. But raising its MP cost would make up for it. That way Beta would only be useful against multiple enemies, falling behind Fire2.

The same could be done but with Fire3 if you think Beta's more suited to fill the gap between Fire2 and 3. But you would have to power up the hell's snake so it would only be beatable by the end of the disc (give or take).

But getting back to the barriers, is there a way to increase their duration? One of the best combos I can think of is pairing Sneak Attack with Wall. But if Wall lasts less than a Summon animation... Well, there's just no point to it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-26 14:56:48
I'm have 2000-3000 AP to go on most of my materia to get to Bolt2, Ice 2, Fire 2, etc.

Cloud is already like level 28 though.

So idk what the issue is.

It's not so much an issue as it is a miscalculation on my part. I think I might have rolled the reduced EXP/AP scene.bin out already when fixing another problem (namely Lost Number). Looks like Tier 2 is unlocking too late though. I'll make an adjustment before the update today (or tomorrow).

When you stated all this magic stuff, most of this was already included in the mod originally or at least up to the July 12th update right? Or will some of the changes be part of a new update?

Some alterations are being made to try and fix Disc 2's balance. I made some adjustments to the Disc 2, Extra, and sidequest bosses as well, they should be much meatier in terms of challenge (Carry Armor in particular; he wrecked my test-team). Source farming is being replaced by a rank-up system where the player can access a special room that dishes out Sources and maybe equipment when certain events are completed (not sure what the criteria will be, it depends what the flevel script can be made to check for). This means that Morph will become available again from Temple, and a second unmissable Morph is being placed in case people are past that point already.

Still about Beta, Trine and Aqualung: If Beta's attack power is 3 3,375 x base, Fire2 1,25 x base and Fire3 4 x base, then you could reduce Beta to 1 or something like that. It would still be stronger against multi targets than a regular Fire 2, plus non reflectable. But raising its MP cost would make up for it. That way Beta would only be useful against multiple enemies, falling behind Fire2.

The same could be done but with Fire3 if you think Beta's more suited to fill the gap between Fire2 and 3. But you would have to power up the hell's snake so it would only be beatable by the end of the disc (give or take).

I'm not so sure if it works that way, a spell either hits everything with no loss or it has Toggle (where it loses damage over a spread). This is straightforward for monster attacks, but for the player Toggle seems to be linked with All Materia (all the magic spells stored in the kernel come with Toggle checked). Raising the MP cost wouldn't make up for it really, MP is quite easy to replenish and it'd definitely last over three characters going from one Inn to the next.

But getting back to the barriers, is there a way to increase their duration? One of the best combos I can think of is pairing Sneak Attack with Wall. But if Wall lasts less than a Summon animation... Well, there's just no point to it.

Barriers' duration can be extended by setting your ATB to Wait on a slow speed. They lose a lot of effectiveness if your ATB is set to Active, but a lot of statuses suffer the same problem; Shield is virtually useless on Active ATB Full-Speed for instance. If you're using buffs then Wait is your best bet, if you're planning to get rid of an enemy's buffs faster then Active is the way to go; your ATB setting should be taken into consideration when setting up for a boss.

And Summon Animations halt gameplay if I remember right, forcing Wait even on Active ATB while their animations play out. Shouldn't be losing Barrier charge there, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-26 15:14:40
Yes, you're indeed right about the barriers. I had forgotten about the summon wait thing. Nevertheless, even with wait ATB barriers go down too quick. I was always a complaint of mine. In other FFs this was done better.

And regarding the update that will fix the AP for levels, will that change the amount of AP earned or the AP required to level up? I'm here rooting for the second :P
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-26 15:19:17
It'll be adjustments to the amount needed on the Materia.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-26 17:57:21
I thought the ap required for level up was pretty good - in vanilla ff7 I would have tier 2 spells by the end of midgar - but because of the slightly increased difficulty of enemies (so I didn't grind nearly as much) I think I got my level 2 spells by about junon or so.

Also I've just started disc 3 - Is there an order in which I can unlock the side quests (do I need to beat any of the weapons first, or chocobo raising?)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-26 21:58:34
Most of it is unlocked when you reach the bottom of the North Cave and receive the phone call from the Highwind. There used to be a loose progression, but it'll be altered fairly soon and most things can be attempted in any order. It used to be that the KOTR cave became available quite late but because Morph is being made freely available again (I'm arranging a second unmissable Morph for players who are past the Temple of the Ancients) it's now available once you get a Gold Chocobo. The only progression is:

Ruby/Emerald -> Kalm Traveler bosses -> Tyrant Extra Battle

Ultimate Weapon -> Nycto Dragon Extra Battle

All character-specific sidequests + Tyrant, Nycto, and Abyss -> Last Extra Battle (it's displayed as  a line of ?'s but that creates an emoticon on Qhimm).

That's about it. However, if you downloaded and used the regular music flevel patch, though, then there's a fix pending for the sidequests (some of my debug lines were left in one of the field screens). The flevel that comes with the installer should be fine though. The update will be out tomorrow it's looking like.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-27 11:45:24
Regarding the Shinra Building:

Regarding the new boss (whose tail I loved): I had to make 23 steal attempts, with a character thats level 16, to successfully steal the item from the level 12 Grunt. Its kind of absurd how low the success rate of steal was in this case. Another thing was how useless magic was in the battle. A Bolt dealt 86 damage. A regular attack 49. A Ice or Fire dealt 57... Even if the thing is not weak to Fire or Ice it should have dealt more than that. Otherwise it was like I said before and magic becomes rather useless. Its good when the monsters are weak to it, but otherwise its better off to whack it in the head with a blunt object, and characters like Aeris and Caith Sith, who are more magic oriented, become less useful.

Another thing that puzzled me was that Cloud is level 20 and I didn't grind at all. I always though it was too easy to level up in the original game, but here its even faster. I don't know if this is intentional and if you wanted players to level up faster, but I fear that at this rate, I might hit 50 or 60 before the end of the disc.

Can you address these two questions for me please, Sega Chief?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-27 12:05:20
Thanks Chief - As it happens I reached the crater bottom and unlocked the extra missions, One thing to note though whilst I was at the battle square I spoke to the other guy practicing his kicks and all of a sudden I had unlocked all the available battles (apart from the question marked one) and received all these spells (Ultima, Command Counter etc.) Was that meant to happen??
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-27 12:43:21
That was part of a fix for the old temporary variables that the Extra Battle monsters used (the variables that determined if a monster was unlocked or if Materia was due to be dropped 'reset' themselves when leaving the screen, making some fights inaccessible; these were replaced with new permanent variables).

Basically, the NPC unlocks all the Extra Battle monsters and the Materia rewards drop again. It's technically only for players who ran into the above problem (she should mention this in her dialogue) but anyone can use it; wasn't ideal, but it was the quickest way to solve the problem because some of the E. Battle items couldn't be obtained legitimately again once they're spent. It's going to be gone from the next version of the flevel.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-27 20:53:10
Hey Chief, could you give me some clarifications on the two issues I raised above please? I lvl 30 at Gongaga and I feel like I'm 10 levels above what I normally would.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-27 21:43:35
To Loseless; I missed that above post, I'll answer it now (I actually got you mixed up with Lappers and was wondering how you reached Disc 3 so quickly).

Regarding the new boss (whose tail I loved): I had to make 23 steal attempts, with a character thats level 16, to successfully steal the item from the level 12 Grunt. Its kind of absurd how low the success rate of steal was in this case.

I'm reviewing steal rates for the update, some were too low for what they actually give. I was trying to counter higher levels from raised EXP but the number was set too low. I'm also running late with that update because I'm trying to implement a new feature relating to character stat development.

Regarding the Shinra Building:

Another thing was how useless magic was in the battle. A Bolt dealt 86 damage. A regular attack 49. A Ice or Fire dealt 57... Even if the thing is not weak to Fire or Ice it should have dealt more than that. Otherwise it was like I said before and magic becomes rather useless. Its good when the monsters are weak to it, but otherwise its better off to whack it in the head with a blunt object, and characters like Aeris and Caith Sith, who are more magic oriented, become less useful.

Was this damage against Guard Scorpion? His magic defence is quite high and I kept it consistent with his original MDef when he's first fought in Reactor 1, also Barret and Tifa have fairly low magic stats and are more physical-attack orientated. Motorball and Heli-Gunner should take more damage from spells, especially if Four Slots is being used. An Earring also drops during the Shinra Tower segment which helps with setting up a caster, at the expense of status protection. With enemies that have sturdy MDef, combining Elemental with Magic materia in the weapon can bolster physical attacks along with a Power Wrist.

Another thing that puzzled me was that Cloud is level 20 and I didn't grind at all. I always though it was too easy to level up in the original game, but here its even faster. I don't know if this is intentional and if you wanted players to level up faster, but I fear that at this rate, I might hit 50 or 60 before the end of the disc.

Yeah, that's the raised EXP from fights. For bosses it was 4x which turned out to be too much, so that's going down to roughly 2x instead while random encounters is going down to 1.5x (with adjustments made in certain cases). The idea behind it was to speed the game up but if it's going down because players are feeling worried that they're getting ahead of the curve.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-27 22:46:20
Thanks for the reply.

Actually, from what I've tested so far (I'm at Cosmo Cannon), only lvl1 spells are rather weak. Lvl 2 spells are overpowered. At level 33, a regular attack deals 250 to 300 dmg, while a spell can hit for 1000. While this makes sense, having spells cost so few MP makes it possible to spam 18 lvl 2 spells. I understand how difficult must be to balance attacks/magic, but right now, lvl 2 spells are way more powerful than they should be, considering their cost. If this was the case that spells were expensive, it would make perfect sense. But being so powerful while cheap, it kind of breaks the mechanics, as I haven't fought a single boss fight since Jenova that even let me use 1/4 of the MP. Maybe the bosses have low HP?

As for the levels, they are indeed to high, I must say. I must confess I don't see the point in making the characters level out faster. The original game could be breezed through with a level 50 party, and I usually level disc 1 at those levels, because I end up leveling too much trying to get AP. I would suggest lowering the exp earned, while maintaining the AP.

Regarding the AP required to level the green materia, mine hit lvl 2 after Corel. Thats late, specially considering that I had double growth equipment on since Costa Del Sol. I reckon 4500 or 5000 AP to lvl 2 would be enough, assuming you expect materia to hit lvl 2 around the same point as they do in vanilla.

On another level, summons are just not worth using. Against a single target, Ifrit dealt 1134 and Fire 2 1296. Against several enemies Ifrit dealt 530 and Fire 2 420. Considering that Fire 2 costs 15MP and Ifrit 34, its pretty safe to say that Ifrit its just not worth the extra materia slot. And the same could be said about all the other summons until Titan. Their base attack power is just too low. Mostly because they can only be used once. They should be like heavy artillery and not less useful than a limit break or a lvl 2 spell.


PS: and you were right, the fight was against the Scorpion. But even against regular enemies, spells did only twice the regular attack worth of damage. After Kalm spells are barely effective, and before Junon they deal almost as much as an attack.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-27 23:02:15
Regarding the Shinra Building:

Regarding the new boss (whose tail I loved): I had to make 23 steal attempts, with a character thats level 16, to successfully steal the item from the level 12 Grunt. Its kind of absurd how low the success rate of steal was in this case. Another thing was how useless magic was in the battle. A Bolt dealt 86 damage. A regular attack 49. A Ice or Fire dealt 57... Even if the thing is not weak to Fire or Ice it should have dealt more than that. Otherwise it was like I said before and magic becomes rather useless. Its good when the monsters are weak to it, but otherwise its better off to whack it in the head with a blunt object, and characters like Aeris and Caith Sith, who are more magic oriented, become less useful.


Yeah I do agree the steal rates are pretty bad. Crazy bad if you're doing a low level or no exp run. But I think magic becomes really important once your past Midgar, especially when they reach their next tiers. I'm doing a no exp run, and Cloud, combined with earring and four slots, can do 700-900 damage with fire 2 :-). You'll notice that magic will be amped and  useful when they level.
I've been using magic pretty much the entire game, and started relying a little bit more on physical attacks when I started getting late game weapons,ultimate weapons, etc.
Some good combos I like: Mp Turbo + Earth (3rd tier can do 6k-9999), and Comet + MP Turbo (capable of doing 10k+ ). I also use regen and time, every boss battle. Just depends on your play style: if you want to focus more on melee, you'll have to rely strength+ equipment to decent damage.  Another thing about magic, spells like sleep, mini, confuse, etc have 100% chance to hit.

About summoning.. don't have a solid opinion on it because I haven't been using it. I think I'll start using it more with my no exp run because they are capable of doing negative status effects. Down side is they can only be used once per battle.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-27 23:47:48
Yeah I do agree the steal rates are pretty bad. Crazy bad if you're doing a low level or no exp run. But I think magic becomes really important once your past Midgar, especially when they reach their next tiers. I'm doing a no exp run, and Cloud, combined with earring and four slots, can do 700-900 damage with fire 2 :-). You'll notice that magic will be amped and  useful when they level.
I've been using magic pretty much the entire game, and started relying a little bit more on physical attacks when I started getting late game weapons,ultimate weapons, etc.
Some good combos I like: Mp Turbo + Earth (3rd tier can do 6k-9999), and Comet + MP Turbo (capable of doing 10k+ ). I also use regen and time, every boss battle. Just depends on your play style: if you want to focus more on melee, you'll have to rely strength+ equipment to decent damage.  Another thing about magic, spells like sleep, mini, confuse, etc have 100% chance to hit.

About summoning.. don't have a solid opinion on it because I haven't been using it. I think I'll start using it more with my no exp run because they are capable of doing negative status effects. Down side is they can only be used once per battle.

I do agreed with you. My concern is mainly with level 1 spells. Level 2 may even be overpowered, considering their cost.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-27 23:48:59
I'll consider either raising MP cost or reducing power again for Tier 2. However, I tested Tier 1 spells in the Midgar area and outside Junon. These were the numbers I got from a Lv.20 team:

Against Kalm Fang (weak to Fire/Ice)
Aeris (Four Slots + Earring, +40 Mag): Fire = 550 (Kill)
Cloud (no boosts): Fire = 400 (Kill)

Physical attacks: roughly 100 damage, 200 if +Elemental used.

Against Nerosuferoth (weak to Ice)
Aeris (Four Slots + Earring, +40Mag): Ice = 550 (kill)
Cloud (Mythril Sabre + Mythril Armlet, +15Mag): Ice = 400 (kill)

So they're hitting roughly 2x over physical hits (when elemental weaknesses aren't taken into consideration), landing one-hit kills on regular enemies (larger enemies like Zemzellet take several hits). That seems fine to me, they're doing their job by killing enemies quickly when their weakness is exploited while falling short of sweeping out the entire group if paired with All.

But Summons are definitely too weak if they're dealing spread damage instead of flat damage to all, even with the status chance (which isn't a factor if the enemy is being killed quickly). I'll take Titan as an example and maybe set their power to an equivalent level, his was the only base power out of the initial summons to exceed Tier 2. The trouble is finding the right level for power and MP. If they're too strong, they'll blitz bosses when all used together (I saw someone doing that in the old version) and if the MP cost is too high then it'll perhaps not be used at all (or be circumvented by Ether consumption). There's the one-use limit but that's refreshed battle-to-battle. I'll try a few things, but it feels like the solution would require something special to make them stand out without making them too OP.

But I think I'll need to do another playthrough soon to help me do the numbers; my own first-hand experience of the mod is likely becoming out of date by this point.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-28 00:11:44
As for bosses, my last experience with Gi Nattack proved very interesting. Ifrit and Ramuh barely did 800 each, used by Cloud and RedXIII at level 34. Even if they had hit 2000 each, plus 2000 from Shiva, it would have only taken 50% of its HP. And for them to take that much would require a HUGE power boost.

But you can boost the bosses HP counting on summons. For instance, if you know that Bahamut will hit for 3000 at level 45 (the level I estimate I'll be when I get it), its just a matter of adding 3000 plus to every boss. Same for Odin and Leviathan (the three strongest summons from disc 1, except Kjata, since it can barely be used before the end of the disc).

If you're considering doing a test playthrough, there's something that puzzles me: why do we start the game at level 6? In FF7 we gain levels like there's no tomorrow. I'm at Shinra's Mansion right now and every tree fights I'm leveling up. Its insane. I'll leave disc 1 at 50 without even training. If things keep going like this I'll have to start running from battles, as I'm getting over-leveled and the bosses are getting easier.

Since this mod has higher HP, MP and stats, why not make the exp lesser than in vanilla? I can imagine beating the first disc at level 30. But that could require HP Plus...


Anyway, what Enemy Skills can be found on the first disc? So far I've found:

Matra Magic, L4 Suicide, Flame Thrower, White Wind, Death Sentence, Frog Song, ????
I'm also counting on getting Death Force, Magic Hammer and Roulette.

Did I forget one?

And is Midgar Zolom worth fighting, or is just a challenge?

Have the prizes at the end of Fort Condor's battles been altered? If so, what are they now? And why not a fight at the end of each Fort Condor's battle?


The Scorpion boss before Dyne is at level 24... L 4 Suicide makes short work of it. And even without it its too easy. Perhaps some steroids are in order?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-28 01:00:11
It's a bit of a conundrum. I think I'd want them to be strong enough to take out enemy groups, but not too strong to sweep a boss immediately. But raising a boss' HP to account for summons isn't a good idea, it should be an option to use Summons but not a necessity; more HP means much longer fights for players who don't use Summons. Same thing goes with Lv.3-4 Limit Breaks; if you boost HP to account for, say, Meteorain then the player is left with a mountain of additional HP to cut down if they don't use Meteorain.

Not sure what the confusion is over starting at Lv.6, that's how it was in the original game. The old version of the mod started at Lv.1 (copying the Hardcore mod) but I put it back to Lv.6. Doesn't make a huge difference, except that it's not required to grind in the 1st Reactor (the starting items were extended as well for this). And I've said a few times before now that I was reducing EXP given in encounters for that exact reason; the player is progressing too fast and finding themselves too strong (I suppose it's marginally better than the other way around, but only marginally).

I think that's all of the main ones; you can pick up Trine on the Da Chao in Wutai. I don't remember Roulette being available until the Crater unless I gave the Gambler enemy in the Rocket Area that skill too. Zolom is a bit of a loose thread now; I think I'll buff him up now that you mention it. I'll have him immediately eject the party if they're under a certain level, but after Lv.50 or so he can be fought as an optional boss and drops potentially missable items, maybe? Yeah, I think I'll do that.

I almost forgot all about the Fort Condor prizes. Yeah, they were changed but I can't be sure if I finished changing them properly. I better double-check. And there should be a battle with either Sgt/Cpt/Cmd Grand Horn if the enemies reach the hut during the Fort Condor minigame; is this not triggering?

That Scorp boss can be slightly tough if he manages to raise his tail (his defences increase significantly). As far as L4 Suicide goes, I decided not to take it too much into account when speccing things (levels are mostly unchanged) so if you find something that works, go with it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-28 01:06:09
You think it's worth doing the fort battles? I remembering most items being potions and either. Curse ring, and The comb was nice!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-28 01:14:05
Hmm. I might try to make the Fort Battles (slightly) more interesting. But not too interesting.

Nice profile picture.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-28 10:44:40
Actually, there's a Zemzlet alike thing in Mt. Nibel that uses Trine. Just got killed by it a while ago. The thing cast two of those things and Cure 2 couldn't handle it. And I think that the 8 Eyes in the Temple of the Ancients uses Roulette.

Anyway, what I really wanted to ask you is if there was a way to easily make enemies give much less experience or characters level slower. Maybe you could make a separate version, if its not too much trouble, for those who feel that they're leveling too much. Right now, the mod's challenge has died. The enemies don't even pose a treat anymore. Being at level 44 just after getting Cid pretty much nulls the increase in difficulty.

Also, is there any news on Lambda? I really wanted to get Odin :P


Oh, and regarding the fort battles, if you do change the items, please tell us to what, since I only fight for the useful ones. I'm afraid I don't quite have the time to track back the fight all of them. And if you upped the enemies it wouldn't be a bad idea... Or putting a special boss at the last fight, even after the enemies were defeated (with the Imperial Guard dropped, of course).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-28 14:01:37
I'd love to see someone make a guide to this mod - especially covering all the locations of the enemy skills and materia.  I have yet to find Morph materia, currently working my way through the extra side quests - just got killed by the machine board in wall market, my current team are:

Cloud lvl 88
Cid lvl 89
Aeris lvl 88
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-28 14:08:50
Actually, there's a Zemzlet alike thing in Mt. Nibel that uses Trine. Just got killed by it a while ago. The thing cast two of those things and Cure 2 couldn't handle it. And I think that the 8 Eyes in the Temple of the Ancients uses Roulette.

Anyway, what I really wanted to ask you is if there was a way to easily make enemies give much less experience or characters level slower. Maybe you could make a separate version, if its not too much trouble, for those who feel that they're leveling too much. Right now, the mod's challenge has died. The enemies don't even pose a treat anymore. Being at level 44 just after getting Cid pretty much nulls the increase in difficulty.

Also, is there any news on Lambda? I really wanted to get Odin :P

Oh, and regarding the fort battles, if you do change the items, please tell us to what, since I only fight for the useful ones. I'm afraid I don't quite have the time to track back the fight all of them. And if you upped the enemies it wouldn't be a bad idea... Or putting a special boss at the last fight, even after the enemies were defeated (with the Imperial Guard dropped, of course).

That thing still has Trine? I remember changing that back to Thunderbolt, maybe I made a mistake or forgot. Lambda was changed in the scene.bin hotfix but the main installer wasn't updated with it yet; that'll be rolled out later tonight hopefully if I can get all these changes implemented in time. And the items in Fort Condor were generally just disposable items, but I'll check them out and see what's there.

I'd love to see someone make a guide to this mod - especially covering all the locations of the enemy skills and materia.  I have yet to find Morph materia, currently working my way through the extra side quests - just got killed by the machine board in wall market, my current team are:

Cloud lvl 88
Cid lvl 89
Aeris lvl 88

When things have settled down a bit, I'll put together a quick guide that players can quickly refer to if they want to find something. In the current version, Morph (should) be dropped by the Kalm Traveler but in the update that's going out Morph will be freely available again from another location.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-28 14:32:09
I thought I'd ask, but would there be any way to perhaps impliment new weapons or armour into the game (if of course you could add a new dungeon to the mod) - would certainly stretch the game further.  If at all possible that is.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-28 14:34:52
Thanks, I'll go beat it now.

And Fort Condor still drops the Magic Comb as the first prize and the Peace(?) Ring as the third prize. The others I don't remember in which order. X-Potion and Megaelixir amongst them. I was just trying to get the Superball, but that must have been moved too.

Oh, and I can help you with the guide, Chief. I already wrote a published FF7 guide, amongst guides for other RPGs. I also like to write :P Unless you have enough spare time and really want to do it.

Btw, what happend to the Great Gospel?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-28 14:43:13
More amour and weapons is properly not doable. I guess there are 15 possible weapons for each character and the rest is also very limited. New dungeons are impossible at the moment.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-28 14:58:56
A guide sounds pretty cool!!!

You can get Great Gospel and other final limit breaks by doing character sidequests you unlock once reaching north crater :-)!

If you need some help with sidequest locations, boss fights, or boss names for optional fights I have uploaded a complete play through here.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFFJy7ETmAkt-HX1loJ2SlUt_ILfisXLC

Currently doing a no exp challenge that are part of the playlist, so any tips/advice/guides are helpful. I also post my strategies on these no exp videos too, feel free to use them if someone is making a thorough guide.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-28 15:18:22
A big full-scale guide might not be a good idea right now, there's too many changes being made and there's a NG+ getting added on at some point. If you really want to put one together though, then go ahead; it might be quite useful for the NG+ because it'll be a different scenario with new challenges and puzzles.

Kalderasha, I was thinking about using 7H to swap in field screens that use a different script (and variables to prevent clashing with the save file) to set up a pseudo-dungeon. It'd be 'random' screens each time, with a challenge on each; sort of like the FF Advance dungeons, setting up new scenarios on old field screens.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-28 15:36:58
Your next update you're putting up will also include revisions of bosses?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-28 16:00:23
Yep, revised the Disc 2 bosses and making some tweaks to the E. Battle and Sidequest ones.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-29 00:10:19
So, I just cleared out disc 1. Here are my thoughts:


Midgar section is masterfully done.

From Midgar to Junon things are OK. Magic becomes a little underpowered here. Jenova is a challenge, but a good one.

From Costa Del Sol to Corel things are easier than expected. Spells here become almost useless, as they cannot keep up with physical attacks. A boss in Mt. Corel would be nice.

From Gold Saucer to Cosmo Cannon things go smooth. Reno and Rude could have a little more HP. Finally some lvl 2 spells. The Cosmo Cannon section is too easy, as lvl 2 spells level the competition.

Nibelheim and Mt. Nibel were not bad. I'd power up the three guys at the entrance of Shinra Mansion, as they are as easy as a random encounter.

Rocket Town and the Temple of the Ancients were also more easy than expected. The dragon was a pushover. The Demon Wall was most challenging boss since Jenova. Got killed by Beta tough. I didn't saw it coming and hitting for 1500 damage :P

Yuffie's sequence was surprisingly easy. Rapps was easier than pretty much all random encounters.

Jenofa was the most broken fight ever. I have no clue to how the thing can be killed. I gave up after a dozen game over screens. And while I don't give up much, I got tired of seeing Aeris being impaled with a 5 foot sword by a man who suffers from Buffalo Bill's complex...


As for the whole experience: the mod starts great and kind of dies after Junon. Since levels are earned so fast that kind of takes the edge of make the enemies harder. Also lvl 2 spells felt too cheap. At level 50 Cloud had more than 500 MP, meaning he could cast 34 lvl 2 spells per battle. That's pretty much insane. Takes the challenge out of it. The bosses also stopped posing a challenge after Jenova, Demon Wall being the exception. Gi Nattack was interesting.


My final thoughts: leveling too fast is killing the challenge. I left disc one with Cloud at 55 and I never stopped for leveling up. Summons are too weak. Magic is too cheap. After Junon the mod actually becomes as easy as the original game, mainly because the party is 10 levels above what they would be and spells are cheaper to cast. From Nibelheim onward it just becomes easier than vanilla. I left disc one 15 levels above what I usually do in vanilla.

Now I'm just waiting for the fix to fight Lost Number.


PS: There are two Superballs dropped. The first I don't remember where, but the second is at the fourth fight in Fort Condor.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-29 00:38:21


My final thoughts: leveling too fast is killing the challenge. I left disc one with Cloud at 55 and I never stopped for leveling up. Summons are too weak. Magic is too cheap. After Junon the mod actually becomes as easy as the original game, mainly because the party is 10 levels above what they would be and spells are cheaper to cast. From Nibelheim onward it just becomes easier than vanilla. I left disc one 15 levels above what I usually do in vanilla.

Now I'm just waiting for the fix to fight Lost Number.


PS: There are two Superballs dropped. The first I don't remember where, but the second is at the fourth fight in Fort Condor.

You may be over leveled, but Disc 2 and Disc 3 become more challenging, especially end game with all the side quests and extra bosses. Hehe I was with ya, I was high level at the end disc 1.

Hmm, one of Cloud's sword state it does magical damage? How that formulated?
 
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-29 00:54:32
Whoops meant to edit not double post: One of Sea Worm's attack locks the game up
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-29 01:02:03
Well, hopefully the changes will fix it up a bit better. I've taken a note of the Disc 1 bosses you mentioned and I'll look at ways to make them more threatening. The enemies in those areas can maybe stand for some slight reinforcement too.

I'll do something about that Beta too, I'm not a fan myself of getting sweeped out of nowhere so I want to avoid that happening to other players. I'll review Jenova Decay as well; the fight is winnable, but it's a pain to go through the cinematic on each attempt.

Whoops meant to edit not double post: One of Sea Worm's attack locks the game up
Righto, I'll fix up that Sea Worm attack.

Edit: Oh, there were two posts. I think Cloud's Rune Edge just used a magic-attack formula instead of a physical one. I was never too sure of it actually. I'll probably change it (and Magic Shuriken/Solid Bazooka too).

Edit 2: Just remembered, now there's only one flevel; Field Music is now set through an option in-game and can be toggled. The initial decision is made at the start of the game, but there's an NPC on the Highwind now who can change it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-29 01:25:43

 I think Cloud's Rune Edge just used a magic-attack formula instead of a physical one. I was never too sure of it actually. I'll probably change it (and Magic Shuriken/Solid Bazooka too).



Cool beans thanks, and I do like the sword: it's a nice combo with sleep since it doesnt wake up enemies upon hit.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-07-29 22:27:23
Hello, where is destruct materia?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-29 22:47:23
It isn't on the same place as it was originally? I found it there.


Btw, Chief, I found two Raising Sun's, one dropped by Diamond and the other at the Sunken Plane. Was this planned?

And any news when the new patch is coming?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-07-29 23:12:06
Um Im skipped the flash back scene, was it during it?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-30 00:27:39
Hello, where is destruct materia?

The Destruct Materia should be where it was originally, in the Shinra Mansion basement (but not during the flashback, it's when you re-visit after completing Cosmo Canyon).

Btw, Chief, I found two Raising Sun's, one dropped by Diamond and the other at the Sunken Plane. Was this planned?

And any news when the new patch is coming?

Probably not, but Rising Suns are available en-masse in a pack of 40 (part of Edge's Throwing Set, one of the randomly selected Mystery Prizes available from Battle Square in place of W-Summon) so it's no biggie. I'll maybe give Diamond something more interesting as a Steal/Drop though.

Update got delayed slightly because I figured out a way to merge both flevels and make music behaviour an in-game option. That cuts down on the amount of work/risk supporting two flevels and simplifies things going into a 7H version. As far as it goes, this update is more or less done but I was trying to test battles to make tweaks; it's not been easy, I need to set some time aside and play the mod start to finish to get a proper team that can give proper feedback. For now though, enemies were pushed up from the Temple onwards; a healthy level and speed increase with some defence, HP, and attack tweaks. But let me know if the standard enemy formations are too much to handle (damage-wise) and/or if bosses are unmanageable.

I also went ahead and changed Ultimate Weapons too; I've got a plan for them going into NG+ but at the moment they're being squared against the other high level weapons. For the most part, characters each have a weapon that:

-) Vit/Spr: +50
-) Mag: +30
-) Dex/Luck +50 (Ultimate Weapons)

This'll likely be changed soon, but for now it seems to have a nice balance. The Luck boost might be broken a bit on Cait Sith, though (if Luck Plus is used).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Travis on 2014-07-30 01:56:22
IS it just me or is it taking me a really long time to level up my limit breaks?

I'm at Cosmo and I JUST got Blade Beam for Cloud.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-30 02:39:32
It should take roughly the same number of kills/uses to learn Limit Breaks.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2014-07-30 08:00:03
Sorry if the question has already been asked but : is this mod compatible with bootleg / reunion ?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-30 09:15:52
So I realised that I haven't fought the battle square in a while and decided to go for that, but the moment I start - it begins to load with the music, but black screen - when I minimize the game window - a pop up appears saying unknown exception, then proceeds to stop working.

Any ideas??
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-30 09:44:01
IS it just me or is it taking me a really long time to level up my limit breaks?

I'm at Cosmo and I JUST got Blade Beam for Cloud.

No, but since the enemies take longer to kill its natural that limits will come later. I got my lvl 2 limits not long before that, so don't worry.


Probably not, but Rising Suns are available en-masse in a pack of 40 (part of Edge's Throwing Set, one of the randomly selected Mystery Prizes available from Battle Square in place of W-Summon) so it's no biggie. I'll maybe give Diamond something more interesting as a Steal/Drop though.

Update got delayed slightly because I figured out a way to merge both flevels and make music behaviour an in-game option. That cuts down on the amount of work/risk supporting two flevels and simplifies things going into a 7H version. As far as it goes, this update is more or less done but I was trying to test battles to make tweaks; it's not been easy, I need to set some time aside and play the mod start to finish to get a proper team that can give proper feedback. For now though, enemies were pushed up from the Temple onwards; a healthy level and speed increase with some defence, HP, and attack tweaks. But let me know if the standard enemy formations are too much to handle (damage-wise) and/or if bosses are unmanageable.

I also went ahead and changed Ultimate Weapons too; I've got a plan for them going into NG+ but at the moment they're being squared against the other high level weapons. For the most part, characters each have a weapon that:

-) Vit/Spr: +50
-) Mag: +30
-) Dex/Luck +50 (Ultimate Weapons)

This'll likely be changed soon, but for now it seems to have a nice balance. The Luck boost might be broken a bit on Cait Sith, though (if Luck Plus is used).

If I understand correctly, you'll first play through the mod before releasing it? That may take a while. And about the exp, have you changed the values so we won't level as fast?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-30 14:08:03
Sorry if the question has already been asked but : is this mod compatible with bootleg / reunion ?

I'm not so sure. Try installing the NT Mod to a data folder, and then copy-pasting these files into the relevant folders inside the Bootleg/Reunion modded data folder:
scene.bin
kernel + kernel2
flevel.lgp
char.lgp (ignore if using field model mods)
battle.lgp (will overwrite battle models but is required due to new monsters)

Can't guarantee that'll work; but the NT Mod is being included with Bootleg's next release as I understand it.

So I realised that I haven't fought the battle square in a while and decided to go for that, but the moment I start - it begins to load with the music, but black screen - when I minimize the game window - a pop up appears saying unknown exception, then proceeds to stop working.

Any ideas??

There could be two reasons. First, it might be related to a problem I found with the Battle Square which didn't handle different party leaders correctly. Were you fighting in the Battle Square from Disc 3 with a different party leader? Second reason could be a bad enemy encounter, as in the game is trying to load an enemy formation which doesn't exist anymore; let me know where you were in the game story-wise when you went to fight in the Battle Square (the encounters change depending on where you are in the game).

If I understand correctly, you'll first play through the mod before releasing it? That may take a while. And about the exp, have you changed the values so we won't level as fast?

I'm releasing the update today (about to post the links) but to get things tight like Midgar I'd need to put a new team together and play through the game again. I'll be doing that for the v1.2 release which is adding in new features and preparing for the NG+ expansion; it'd be a good idea if I had a team ready to test the NG+, because I want the fights for that to be quite hard and keep the curve going. For now, I'm going to be working on putting 1.2 together and then I'll start a test-play of it, adding more stuff as I go.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-07-30 15:07:45
yay!! whats included in this update?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-30 15:10:00
Oh yeah jut realised I had Cid as my party leader - thanks.  Will check this again............And yeah it works now
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-30 15:48:24


I'm releasing the update today (about to post the links) but to get things tight like Midgar I'd need to put a new team together and play through the game again. I'll be doing that for the v1.2 release which is adding in new features and preparing for the NG+ expansion; it'd be a good idea if I had a team ready to test the NG+, because I want the fights for that to be quite hard and keep the curve going. For now, I'm going to be working on putting 1.2 together and then I'll start a test-play of it, adding more stuff as I go.

I'm finishing disc 2 right now. Just fooling around with chocobos first. I can help test the new version or the NG+. Since I'll need to start a new game for the guide, might as well wait for the 1.2 version.

I think you've missed the question, but is there any change to the exp earn from battles? Will characters still level up as easily?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Vgr on 2014-07-30 16:32:26
[...] the NT Mod is being included with Bootleg's next release as I understand it. [...]

I can confirm.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-07-30 19:07:05
Found a glitch with Tifa being the leader  :D sorry for language. Tifa becomes permanently locked when you try to leave the last place

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3JRL1nynqA

Thank you I also found the destruct materia in the building, I thought id already looked.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-07-30 20:36:57
Forgot to ask, but have I missed morph materia - haven't been able to find it (I'm presuming it's needed to get a gold chocobo)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-30 22:29:29
Well, finished disc 2, and here's the feedback:

There was a huge drop in difficulty from disc 1. Bosses remain interesting and challenging. But random fights weren't even menacing. The disc flew like a breeze. Cloud ended the disc at level 76. Ultimate Weapon really needs more HP. Big Brawl and Meteor Rain nearly killed it. I had to use and Elixir on it to keep stealing items... It disappointed me. Diamond also could use more firepower, as it was the easiest boss of the second disc.

As for disc 3 (which is nearly finished), I must admit I felt like not having enough firepower against the enemies at Northern Crater. They didn't pose much of a challenge, but took a lot to kill. Magic lost its uses and physical hits do more damage, more easily. Only defensive and support spells matter. Elemental materia only waste space and HP. Since my party is at high 70s, I think removing Contain, Ultima and Pandora's Box from their usual locations really hurt the game, as lvl 3 elemental spells don't cut it anymore. Magic Breath was also powered down to the point where its useless. And by the time we get these materia we won't have anyone to use them anymore (excpet for the some few bosses).

I know this is an old debate, but if an effective Quake 3 deals 3500 with 40+ Mag from accessory and armor, while a regular attack does 3000 without Str boosting, I'll stay with the attack. I reckon this is due to level modifier for damage affection attack damage more than magic damage.

I cleared three of the materia caves, don't have Morph and still don't know where to get Contain, Ultima, Full Cure, Final Attack, Morph, W-Item, W-Magic, W-Summon, Counterattack, Double Attack, Shield, Long Range and Added Cut. Did I miss something?


Final thoughts: the mod is surprisingly well done. Even Aeris feels alive, although maybe a little cheery. The bosses were much more interesting and worthwhile. The equipment was also modified interestingly.

Things I disliked:
- Some materia being so difficult and time consuming to get that I ended up just giving up on them;
- I didn't managed to get a single ultimate weapon or lvl 4 limit for the same reason: too time consuming;
- Summons are even less useful than in the original game;
- I still don't have seven enemy skills. I know some of them are carried by extra bosses and stuff, but if I have to wait all that time to get them, what will the be useful for? Couldn't they have been put in some monsters along the game? Maybe and the Sunken Plane or Northern Crater? Its not like Big Guard or Angel Whisper are gonna break the experience after the weapons are already beaten.

Things I hated:
- Leveling up every four or five fights;
- Too many materia being out of place;
- Some high end armor and accessories having been completely changed or moved. Basically I used only two armors the entire game: Endicoat and Wizard Bangle.

Things I liked:
- Being able to skip many boring scenes;
- Additional bosses and fights;
- Better and more challenging boss fights overall;
- Interesting equipment set up options;
- Being able to have Aeris after disc 1;
- The new save points (only wish there were some more at Northen Crater);
- The option to re-fight old bosses.


Thats all I can't think of. I'll now start playing the new version. I'm eager to see the new modifications.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-30 22:47:06

I cleared three of the materia caves, don't have Morph and still don't know where to get Contain, Ultima, Full Cure, Final Attack, Morph, W-Item, W-Magic, W-Summon, Counterattack, Double Attack, Shield, Long Range and Added Cut. Did I miss something?



Hey, you have some good points!! Most of the materia you listed is obtained from defeating the 10 extra bosses you need to unlock at the arena. You need to bring ingredients to an NPC to unlock these bosses which som are obtained by doing the extra sidequests (more bosses.)  Morph is obtained by doing the Kalm traveler sidequest, unlessed Sega changed it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-30 22:49:05
Hey, you have some good points!! Most of the materia you listed is obtained from defeating the 10 extra bosses you need to unlock at the arena. You need to bring ingredients to an NPC to unlock these bosses which som are obtained by doing the extra sidequests (more bosses.)  Morph is obtained by doing the Kalm traveler sidequest, unlessed Sega changed it. All this neat stuff is unlocked one you reach the bottom of the north cave.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-30 23:25:06
Hey Sega Chief,
can you make for the next release a list for testers. Divide the game in different stages or chapters for it, then note for yourself your expected level, damage output (physical and magical) and maybe the tactical strategy for it. The testers should place their level for the stages in the list and if they think it's to easy or to hard, the damage output they have and if the battles are too long or too short.
You can balance the game this way a bit easier, but make sure that they should do only less grinding (sidequest are an exception).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-30 23:39:27
Found a glitch with Tifa being the leader  :D sorry for language. Tifa becomes permanently locked when you try to leave the last place

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3JRL1nynqA

Looks like that'll need fixed. I remember doing something there because the guy was throwing down the rope-ladder three times instead of once. It's likely that fix has caused this more serious issue to happen, but I'll get it sorted.

Forgot to ask, but have I missed morph materia - haven't been able to find it (I'm presuming it's needed to get a gold chocobo)

I replaced the EXP Plus in the garden next to Aeris' house with Morph; and to cover players who are past this point and already picked it up, I changed the variable check so it should be there even if the Materia was picked up before. I should've mentioned that in the notes. There's also a NPC on the under-carriage of the Highwind (not sure what the technical name for that part of the ship is, it's the part the team parachute jumps from) who can fix the sidequest problem for people who were using the Regular Battle Music flevel. It resets all the sidequest variables so they can be fought again.

Well, finished disc 2, and here's the feedback:

There was a huge drop in difficulty from disc 1. Bosses remain interesting and challenging. But random fights weren't even menacing. The disc flew like a breeze. Cloud ended the disc at level 76. Ultimate Weapon really needs more HP. Big Brawl and Meteor Rain nearly killed it. I had to use and Elixir on it to keep stealing items... It disappointed me. Diamond also could use more firepower, as it was the easiest boss of the second disc.

As for disc 3 (which is nearly finished), I must admit I felt like not having enough firepower against the enemies at Northern Crater. They didn't pose much of a challenge, but took a lot to kill. Magic lost its uses and physical hits do more damage, more easily. Only defensive and support spells matter. Elemental materia only waste space and HP. Since my party is at high 70s, I think removing Contain, Ultima and Pandora's Box from their usual locations really hurt the game, as lvl 3 elemental spells don't cut it anymore. Magic Breath was also powered down to the point where its useless. And by the time we get these materia we won't have anyone to use them anymore (excpet for the some few bosses).

I know this is an old debate, but if an effective Quake 3 deals 3500 with 40+ Mag from accessory and armor, while a regular attack does 3000 without Str boosting, I'll stay with the attack. I reckon this is due to level modifier for damage affection attack damage more than magic damage.

I cleared three of the materia caves, don't have Morph and still don't know where to get Contain, Ultima, Full Cure, Final Attack, Morph, W-Item, W-Magic, W-Summon, Counterattack, Double Attack, Shield, Long Range and Added Cut. Did I miss something?


Final thoughts: the mod is surprisingly well done. Even Aeris feels alive, although maybe a little cheery. The bosses were much more interesting and worthwhile. The equipment was also modified interestingly.

Things I disliked:
- Some materia being so difficult and time consuming to get that I ended up just giving up on them;
- I didn't managed to get a single ultimate weapon or lvl 4 limit for the same reason: too time consuming;
- Summons are even less useful than in the original game;
- I still don't have seven enemy skills. I know some of them are carried by extra bosses and stuff, but if I have to wait all that time to get them, what will the be useful for? Couldn't they have been put in some monsters along the game? Maybe and the Sunken Plane or Northern Crater? Its not like Big Guard or Angel Whisper are gonna break the experience after the weapons are already beaten.

Things I hated:
- Leveling up every four or five fights;
- Too many materia being out of place;
- Some high end armor and accessories having been completely changed or moved. Basically I used only two armors the entire game: Endicoat and Wizard Bangle.

Things I liked:
- Being able to skip many boring scenes;
- Additional bosses and fights;
- Better and more challenging boss fights overall;
- Interesting equipment set up options;
- Being able to have Aeris after disc 1;
- The new save points (only wish there were some more at Northen Crater);
- The option to re-fight old bosses.


Thats all I can't think of. I'll now start playing the new version. I'm eager to see the new modifications.

Is this feedback for the previous version or the current version that went up today? I'm gonna assume the previous version based on the last line, but if this feedback was for the current version then I guess I really need to make a test play.

So the difficulty curve fell flat after Disc 1. When I went through each monster in each area, I saw that some were sitting with the same (or even less) HP than the enemies in the Temple which was a bit dire. I boosted everything going from the Temple of the Ancients to the North Crater with a higher level and more Speed (with some small tweaks to attacks and defences); hopefully they might put up more resistance but because of the high EXP from the old versions the damage might already be done on that front. I tuned up the bosses considerably; Carry Armor's torso is a lot more aggressive and makes use of some new attacks (and I fixed it's Arm Grab problem where it would never Arm Grab anything). Same thing with bosses like Hojo, Proud Clod, and Diamond Weapon (Diamond now uses Demon Gate's AI and alternates it's physical/magical immunities, which should be interesting).

However with that said, the problem you suggested with the North Crater enemies might have been exacerbated by the slight down-tune to spells and their slight upgrade. Let me know how you find them now and I'll roll back their HP a bit (I'm thinking Crater Dragon and Dragon Zombie will be the main culprits, closely followed by Malboro, Master Tonberry, and Pollensalta).

Talking about Exp, I tuned down given EXP for monsters and bosses slightly but it might be too late for people who have reached the end of Disc 1. I've been thinking about changing the EXP curve for characters to make Lv70+ more heavy to get through, so there's more slack for levelling up in the NG+ expansion. Might be risky.

Now while I can see the Extra Battle item requirements being time-consuming (considering the dire steal rates of the previous version) I'm not sure how the Lv.4 Limit sidequests could be considered time consuming. It's basically go to X, fight Y, get Z, with clues for where to go coming from the new crewman on the Highwind. Unless these sidequests aren't triggering and can't be found (there was a flaw in the Regular Music flevel that turned these sidequests to 'completed'; an NPC on the Highwind can fix this problem). Do you mean the boss related to each sidequest was time-consuming?

If the Extra Battle requirements are a pain, even with the new steal/drop rates, then I'll maybe revise the requirements to unlock them or if it's finding who has what, I'll add an NPC who can provide that info in-game (the Highwind's getting crowded...)

The Armor and Accessory changes were trying to fix things up and make more things useful (Star Pendants used to be made completely obsolete by Fairy Rings, for instance, while Ribbons make everything obsolete but are available fairly early in the game). You mentioned in your lists that you didn't like how different armors were but found the equipment set-up options are interesting. It might be that I need to make some alterations to make high-end armor more useful again (the Mystile/Aegis Armlet nerfs probably weren't too popular). I might try to bring things a little closer to what they were, rein in the changes here before they become unrecognizable.

I've seen a few places where new cutscene skips would be welcome (namely, whenever I die inside because I've got a long sequence to sit through). I don't want to add too many because it might get intrusive but there will be more in future. I'm thinking Elmyra's brief story about her husband, etc. is a candidate.

Anyway, I'll be starting my test play in the next few days. Hopefully this update catches some of the curve back or at least holds the fort until a more extensive revision goes in. I'd better get that soft-lock fix done first though.

Edit:
Hey Sega Chief,
can you make for the next release a list for testers. Divide the game in different stages or chapters for it, then note for yourself your expected level, damage output (physical and magical) and maybe the tactical strategy for it. The testers should place their level for the stages in the list and if they think it's to easy or to hard, the damage output they have and if the battles are too long or too short.
You can balance the game this way a bit easier, but make sure that they should do only less grinding (sidequest are an exception).

That might be an idea, it depends if people are willing to go through the game again or if new players are willing to take the time to post that level of feedback. I'm planning on playing through the mod again to 'update' my experience with it and make tweaks as I go, but extra feedback is always helpful. If anyone's willing to help out on that, let me know and I'll make up a list.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-30 23:51:12
Hoooorayy, been waiting for the update once right before temple, now I feel like I will get annihilated, should be interesting  8)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-30 23:56:34
You probably won't get annihilated. Probably.

But let me know if things get too easy or too tough. And give stealing a shot, see how that is. The chance was pushed way up, but the level increase might cause problems.

Edit: I figured out the problem for the soft-lock when returning to the Highwind. There will now only be a prompt for party change if Cloud goes into the Crater and doesn't reach the bottom. That way, different party leaders don't get soft-locked (and don't need to change) when leaving the crater and Cloud can't leave the crater with a party of two or just by himself after the split-up event. Update will be up in an hour or tomorrow.

Edit2: And it looks like the option to toggle battle music behaviour decided to stop working too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-31 00:43:19
Quote
Now while I can see the Extra Battle item requirements being time-consuming (considering the dire steal rates of the previous version) I'm not sure how the Lv.4 Limit sidequests could be considered time consuming. It's basically go to X, fight Y, get Z, with clues for where to go coming from the new crewman on the Highwind. Unless these sidequests aren't triggering and can't be found (there was a flaw in the Regular Music flevel that turned these sidequests to 'completed'; an NPC on the Highwind can fix this problem). Do you mean the boss related to each sidequest was time-consuming?

Its funny that you changed Carry Armor's, as it was the hardest boss I fough since Jenova Birth. The thing killed me a dozen times :P

Actually, I didn't try to get the lvl4 limits or the ultimate weapons. It would take time, no matter how little, and I don't need them. I''m doing 3000 a hit at level 70 and killing bosses with two limit breaks (and this is with Barret and Cid, both at level 70. Cloud is at level 82). Why do I need more firepower? To fight bigger bosses who reward me with even more firepower? I had assumed that ultimate weapons were necessary to finish the game or beat the weapons, but it appears not. Actually, I was afraid it might make things even easier than they were already, so I just kept using what I had.

Quote
The Armor and Accessory changes were trying to fix things up and make more things useful (Star Pendants used to be made completely obsolete by Fairy Rings, for instance, while Ribbons make everything obsolete but are available fairly early in the game). You mentioned in your lists that you didn't like how different armors were but found the equipment set-up options are interesting. It might be that I need to make some alterations to make high-end armor more useful again (the Mystile/Aegis Armlet nerfs probably weren't too popular). I might try to bring things a little closer to what they were, rein in the changes here before they become unrecognizable.

Precisely. While the three elemental armors were interesting (plus the Adamant), there was never a battle were I was being hurt by water, lightning, fire or ice to the point that I had to use defensive equipment. And since the defense and mdefense formulas in FF7 are broken, the only thing that matters in armors is the stat boost they give and the materia slots. Sure, Crystal has the best values for mid disc 2, but there's no Str or Mag stat boost... And only 6 slots. So Edincoat or Wizard it is. Mystile has 75 M. Evade. Cool. 6 slots without growth, and zero defenses and evade... Meh... Edincoat or Wizard again. But remember that you have some armors that are absolutely useless (Shinra Alpha and Beta). You can use those to create completely different armors to fit any role you can think of.

A bit of advice: if you're gonna make version 1.2 thinking about a  NG+, leave the Ziedrich as a 8 slot armor, with its currents status and some evade. It might seem broken, but you could make it one of the final quests: if you got the things, good. If you didn't, you would regret it... Besides, they can't be more broken that the ultimate weapons... Just have some super boss trio have them. Or if the NG+ follows the battle with Buffalo Bill have him drop the three things. Or maybe just one, so that there's some replayability (one Ribbon and one Ziedrich per run). But I would advise you to increase the materia limit to 250 or 300. Having multiple playthroughs might produce too many shiny rocks and we don't have Lara Croft's backpack with us... Also, if you want players to do multiple runs, have something waiting for them. Maybe some bosses that are only playable the second time? A very slow leveling process (if you think is difficult to balance the difficulty curve, try making a game design for players to go from lvl 1 to lvl 40. That pretty much ends the balancing issues, as it will be MUCH more easier for you to point how players will be doing). Otherwise, you can do something old RPGs did two decades ago: after NG+ have players start at lvl 1 but with increased stats, corresponding to a certain % of their stats at the end of the game. This way players could level to 99, start again and have some reasons to play. Maybe after two or three runs they had the equip and stats necessary to beat those super bosses that were waiting... Just food for thought :P

And finally, I really think you should do something more interesting with Fort Condor. Why not have a note pop up whenever there's a battle? If you give players interesting prizes and a custom boss fight (might just be a palette swap enemy from later in the game and a HP boost) to justify backtracking all the way there it might be more interesting. And if so, please make the battles more engaging, so that they're actually challenging and worth the items. This way you could give players access to armors, accessories that they would otherwise get on disc 2.

And I'll start the new version of the mod tomorrow. I'll also be writing the small guide we talked yesterday. I'll be sending you the daily progress, along with timestamps and other useful information, so that you can suggest some things I missed and check my progress and overall progress (like the levels, max AP got, Gil, hours played and relevant notes). Just keep in mind that I won't stop for training unless I'm completely hopeless before a boss, won't grind kills for limits, won't train for gil or anything like that. But I'll fight some enemies to steal armors. I also won't be using double AP equip, unless those weapons are the best available. This will almost be a speed run.



And I apologize in advance if this will sounds too harsh or unfair, but I feel like I have to explain myself and point where I'm coming from:

I understand the concept of not wanting to give players access to powerful stuff too easily. I really do. Its a way to make them appreciate what they have and learn to use it rather than just giving them the powerful stuff early on. I'm ok with that. But if getting the powerful stuff is delayed too much and involves a lot of busywork, they will just become boring. The way I see it: I can spend 5 hours running around collecting the items and fighting at the arena to get those things OR I can get to the Crater, fight some things, level to 99 (which by itself would take two hours at best), master all the materia I can, and after that those precious materia would stop being useful because my regular attack would hit for more damage (and thank god I already spent 5 hours running with Chocobos and trying to get my golden bird just to learn that I can't get Zeio nuts before god knows how many hours of grinding and fighting and therefore have enough GP for dozens of arena fights).

I like the Chocobo racing mini game. But after 15 years doing it, its kind of old... I know some people like to breed the birds and get their 176 MPH Speedy Gonzalez chocobo, but for me, its just busy work to get four materias, from which only one of them really matters to me: Quadramagic. HP/MP is utterly useless, KOTR is broken and Mime is either broken or useless. Even after breeding the giant chickens (which takes a couple of hours if you know what you're doing) having to fight bosses to get these materia? Meh... Its like I have to do some busy work, in order to do some more busy work, to finally get the materia. The three bosses were interesting, don't get me wrong. Except for the king squirrel thing that was pretty much unbeatable until I pumped the Str and dropped three lvl3 limit breaks on it, killing it before it could spam pearless like a meteor was coming or something.

As for the weapons, beating Emerald or Ruby to get Morph to get the Golden Chocobo? Sorry, but I don't want to spend 20 hours worth of grinding just to get Morph or the golden chicken so I can get an utterly broken materia which I'll have barely anyone to test it on...

The problem of changing exp and AP (both from battles and required to level materia) is that it leads to an unbalance in the gameplay. The same could happen if the enemies gave less exp, but then you could always level up, while the contrary can't be done. The advantage in playing a low level game (and I say this loosely) is that it makes you come up with effective strategies to overcome difficult enemies. If hitting bosses and regular enemies in the head is your most reliable solution, then something is not right and this is what's happening. Why do I need to come up with strategies and exploit status and elemental weaknesses on monsters and bosses if my lvl 65 Cloud could kill the bosses with regular attacks, before even getting the Highwind? After that it only became worse. If I'll hit 99 before even getting half of the game quests done, what will be the reward then? Something that no longer has any use? Its like crossing hell just to find a fire extinguisher.


Yeah, its fun to have an array of spells to cast. But its more practical to remove most of them, leaving Restore, Barrier, Time, Heal and Revive, allowing for more HP n order to whack things in the head with swords longer before healing. And if we don't use magic, the extra MP and Magic stat points added by the magic materia also become useless. We rather need Strength and HP. Some times it doesn't work so well, but if there's something I need at the moment, Enemy Skill is there for that: improvising.

Sure, magic works fine in the first disc, except for MP being more abundant than bananas in Ecuador - I just realized that I've just beaten the game without ever using one Ether and still having 6 Tents from the 20 I bought on disc 1... Disc 2 and 3 become a slash fest, just like a bad horror movie. Its just like the Scream movies...

The moral here is that while the mod has improved many aspects of the game, it is more unbalanced than the original, because the changed values of AP, exp and MP required to cast spells have created a counter-productive effect and thats a problem. I don't want to sound unfair or anything, but if those values were like they used to be in the original game, the mod would be more balanced. I'm not suggesting they should be like they were originally, but rather that the balance problem was something created when it didn't existed in the beginning, which, by all logic, points toward a posteriori problem.

I know that the intention behind this was making the players level faster and make magic more appealing. But ironically, those two objectives aren't possible at the same time, because after level 60 magic starts becoming less powerful compared to regular attacks. And this only gets worst as the damage formula for regular attacks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-31 02:11:09
Well, it's good to vent steam I guess (those metaphors of yours make me die a little inside each time though  :-P).

A few things:

-) Defence from armor isn't broken in FF7, it was Magic Defence that wasn't being calculated properly. But this glitch was fixed in the Steam version and Aali's Driver for the 1998 version fixes it too. Check the character's status screen and see if Magic Defence is higher than the character's spirit stat; if it's higher, it means the bug is fixed. That being said, the way the formulas work means it doesn't make a huge difference (hence the status boosts).

-) The Materia limit can't be increased, to my knowledge. It's a pain, but unless there's hex editing that can handle it we're kinda stuck.

-) Slow leveling: I've been thinking about this because an NG+ means there should be more room for development past the end of the first playthrough. I'm going to look at the arcs and see what can be done (I can edit the curves manually but it's tricky). Resetting to Lv1 might not be possible (or it might be glitchy), I'll have to check the special functions in the debug rooms; maybe there's something there.

-) Fort Condor's always been a weird place. I think it was originally intended to be necessary to have a shot at the Huge Materia later in the game but they axed that and made it optional (giving them money doesn't affect the outcome of this sidequest in any way that I know of; you get to participate in the Huge Materia battle regardless). I might try and revamp this place at some point, maybe set it up so that fights can be repeated once the Huge Materia event is done.

-) Someone mentioned that about Gold Chocobos before. I want to streamline things wherever I can, so I'll need to think of something. Returning the Gold Chocobo as a prize is probably the answer, that's a short-cut past all the breeding (it should be available to get now, though, with the Morph Materia no longer being specific to the Kalm Traveller).

-) You get Mega-All from the purple Materia cave, not HP<->MP (that was dropped by Materia Keeper instead of Counter-Attack). And Mime is certainly not useless if you know how to use it. Also, KOTR had it's defence-ignoring property removed. I think it might deal more reasonable damage now, though probably still the strongest spell in the game.

-) The default game isn't balanced at all, except maybe if you don't know where anything is or what you're doing. But it's an old game now, and a lot of people are seasoned vets from other much harder RPGs. It wasn't unusual for people to clear FF7 with only one Game Over (Carry Armor) and there's ways to beat most of the bosses, super-bosses included, with Lv.1 parties or within a few minutes.

I'm trying to work with two things in mind: 1) What I find reasonable difficulty isn't what other people find reasonable (this killed the first release of the mod, it's a bad sign when people have to save-edit past Motorball), and 2) People don't have as much time to invest in old games (you said yourself, you don't want to spend time doing old sidequests like Chocobo Racing or too much grinding).

That's sort of why things turned out the way they are; I was too cautious with enemy strength (which gets worse and worse as the game goes on) and I was trying to make the game play quicker which ended up putting physical attacks on top because it's at higher levels where Phys. Attacks start to catch up and overtake the magic damage formula. I think that's the biggest oversight; I didn't connect the faster leveling to the curve of the physical damage formula.

When giving feedback for this update though, try to keep it narrowed down to what we haven't gone over (or be brief if it's old ground about Exp, physical attacks, etc.) Keeps the thread less chunky and easier to go through. What I'm interested in right now is info on Tier 2-3 spells and Summons, and how they fare.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-07-31 02:36:48
one of my favorite offensive tier 2/3 spells is gravity. Love the idea with enemies of 2x gravity damage, demi 2 can wipe them out. Might sound overpowing but it still has a chance to miss. 

On a more serious note, Sega can you explain this Devil's Gate battle? =_= This befuddled me like crazy..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFf0oG4eV3w&feature=youtu.be

The only thing I can think of was dual drain status.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-31 03:04:12
I can confirm.

Cheers, VGR. I better learn how to use Bootleg though so I can troubleshoot the mod from it better.

one of my favorite offensive tier 2/3 spells is gravity. Love the idea with enemies of 2x gravity damage, demi 2 can wipe them out. Might sound overpowing but it still has a chance to miss. 

On a more serious note, Sega can you explain this Devil's Gate battle? =_= This befuddled me like crazy..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFf0oG4eV3w&feature=youtu.be

The only thing I can think of was dual drain status.

If it's a Molotov then it'll probably be Dual Drain. By the way, if you get stuck in that challenge then let me know; I might have a trick or two to share  :wink:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Travis on 2014-07-31 04:45:56
Three Things:

1. Devil's Gate... that was just challenging. I ended up winning by using Cloud's Yoshiyuki with both allies down, then once I took out the first half (how lucky idk) I revived everyone.

2. Aeris' Death Scene... Lol I was expecting some big explanation or something exciting... nope just a phoenix down LOL.

3. The 2nd Jenova.... Ummm I lost this fight, but I still won? Idk. What the hell is with that? Also if I had actually killed that thing would I have gotten any bonuses

BONUS THING: I forgot to let the clock knock me down to the bottom at the temple of the ancients... what did I miss?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-31 09:40:29
Three Things:

1. Devil's Gate... that was just challenging. I ended up winning by using Cloud's Yoshiyuki with both allies down, then once I took out the first half (how lucky idk) I revived everyone.

2. Aeris' Death Scene... Lol I was expecting some big explanation or something exciting... nope just a phoenix down LOL.

3. The 2nd Jenova.... Ummm I lost this fight, but I still won? Idk. What the hell is with that? Also if I had actually killed that thing would I have gotten any bonuses

BONUS THING: I forgot to let the clock knock me down to the bottom at the temple of the ancients... what did I miss?

Jenova was like that in the previous version of the mod. The one up right now deals with that, as I understand.

Oh, and you missed the Nail Bat. Which was almost the same as in the original game, only with a damage modifier based on how many kills you have on Cloud. Still no materia slot though...


@ Sega Chief

About defense, I wasn't saying "broken" like it didn't work, but rather as useless. Having a 100 def armor or a 0 has little impact on damage. Other FFs did this a lot better (the early ones, 9 and 12 come to mind).

What I hate about Mime is that it goes around game's limitations. Mime + KOTR is one of the most broken strategies in the original game. But spamming limit breaks through Mime is even worse! Mime has its uses, but they're always about someone doing something that they wouldn't be able to otherwise, and while I get the appeal, it detracts too much from strategy for my taste.

I knew the balance thing was going to bite me in the grapes... By balance I meant certain aspects of the game's progression. If you know what to do and where to go, you'll leave disc on at late 30s or early 40s, disc two at early 50s and finish disc three at 60, give or take. You'll get level 2 spells before Corel and level three before the Crater or before Junon. By balance I meant the exp, AP and damage progressions. Of course since we're all about meta-gaming we didn't noticed this things anymore.

And about the chocobos, I don't mind it that much. Its necessary to get GP to fight at the Arena, get the four materia, besides the rewards from the races, which some are really interesting, like Magic Counter (another very interesting materia that comes way too late to have much use), Counter, Counter Attack, Sprint Shoes, Cat's Bell (useless, but meh), Precious Watch, Sneak Attack and something else I'm missing. Yeah, it takes a few hours, but the rewards are worth it. I just hate the breeding part. But hell will freeze over if I'm gonna fight Ruby before getting my giant golden chicken.

As for difficulty, thats a complex concept. There are some aspects in gaming that developers tend to ignore a little:

- There are games that mostly rely on preparation, being the tactical RPGs the perfect example of this. Your mod has an heavy focus on this aspect, as some fights are barely winnable if you don't have the right accessories;

- Then there are games that require strategy, meaning that you'll have to adapt and create something on the spot in order to beat the enemies. This is more classical to RPGs. Your mod has some fights like that, when you can't just raw damage.

- In both cases, there's always a third way: leveling up. For example, Jenova Birth is pretty strong. But its not like its invincible, even for a low level party. But if you're not too hot about putting people with sadness, back row, casting Barrier and having someone healing (Aeris and Yuffie would do wonders here), you can always gain two or three levels and get past it.

The thing is that in some games it doesn't really matter how leveled you are. If you don't have the right equipment or a solid strategy you're done for. This is not the case however, and you can always try having this in mind: why people die. Is it because they aren't really interested in strategy and rather blazing through fights? If so, then its their problem. If people like to blaze through they have that option. its just a matter of gaining 5 or 10 levels and everything will be much easier. It may break the fun, but its their choice. But for the rest of the guys who are really into meta-gaming and strategical thinking, leveling up is not our first choice, but rather something that happens in the process. The problem before was that leveling was destroying the need for strategy. But if people are loosing even with preparation and solid strategies, than maybe the fight is a little rigged.

As for speed, initially I was afraid of the higher AP requirements for materia. But after playing through the Crater I realized that with all the Triple equipment and the boosted AP from fights it would be very easy to master materia. Maybe even too easy? I fought the Movers and got enough AP to buy a house on the Bahamas and I wasn't even on Double or Triple AP mode.


Oh, btw, and for the report I mentioned, I was thinking more about doing that by PM. Since it will contain what I wrote for the guide so far and all, so putting it here would be mass flooding... More than I already do.


PS: and the metaphors are payback for what you did with Yellow M-Phone, W-Item and Full-Cure. You're a cold guy, dude.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-31 14:06:11
Three Things:

1. Devil's Gate... that was just challenging. I ended up winning by using Cloud's Yoshiyuki with both allies down, then once I took out the first half (how lucky idk) I revived everyone.

2. Aeris' Death Scene... Lol I was expecting some big explanation or something exciting... nope just a phoenix down LOL.

3. The 2nd Jenova.... Ummm I lost this fight, but I still won? Idk. What the hell is with that? Also if I had actually killed that thing would I have gotten any bonuses

BONUS THING: I forgot to let the clock knock me down to the bottom at the temple of the ancients... what did I miss?

I actually thought I'd fixed that Jenova thing. Turns out I haven't, and it's still got the flag enabled to disable Game Over for that fight. I guess that'll be fixed for the next one.

Of course a Phoenix Down. What else would you use, Lv4 Revive Materia?  :wink:

And at the bottom of the Temple it's a Crystal Bangle not a Nail Bat. The Nail Bat was moved up to one of the chests in the Clock Rooms if I remember right.

PS: and the metaphors are payback for what you did with Yellow M-Phone, W-Item and Full-Cure. You're a cold guy, dude.

Alright, I'll give you that one.

I hear what you're saying. The challenge I've got is trying to find a way to make a boss interesting and challenging without it being either a 'beginner's trap' or a curb-stomp (either on the player's side of things or the boss). I think the best place for difficulty to come from is the AI rather than the actual stats and attacks. What I was planning to do was look at interesting bosses from other RPGs and have a shot at replicating some of their behaviour then putting it into new bosses/revamps for the mod.

It's a little tough sometimes to interpret feedback on particular bosses though. Someone might say that they found X Boss to be too strong, but I'll have people who have went through that boss without incident. So I've got to consider things like what they have equipment-wise, how they've leveled their Materia up to that point, and what their general proficiency/approach with the game is. That's not much of a problem early on but as the game goes on those differences become much greater and there's more variance between players. What I didn't realise when boosting EXP to make the game faster and to help players catch up if they fell behind, was that at the other end of things the players who didn't need the leg-up are finding themselves overpowered. I adjusted the EXP for this release but I'm also going to put the EXP curve up so that there's plenty of leeway for leveling in NG+. I'd better update the Readme, etc. with that info actually.

I thought you meant the calcs themselves were broken, like the MDEF glitch. Yeah, defence values don't make a huge difference between certain values. It feels like defence is a little like physical formulas, in that it suddenly gets a lot stronger as it approaches the max caps. I could experiment with giving late armor defences past 100 or I could have a shot at giving more armors resistances to elements (or give them all a buff of some kind). Or I could set them back to how they were. Undecided.

PMs would be handy. I guess a guide would be useful seeing as I've probably changed too much.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-31 14:23:48
Well, actually, since you're struggling with some bosses, I decided to leave a save before every boss or fixed fight in this playthrough, so I can be a test dummy if you want to try changing something.

And by the way, if you managed to let us skip the drag dressing and the harem part in Midgar, I'll marry you. I swear my soul dies a little every time I have to do that crap. But then again, Cloud IS Buffalo Bill's clone, so what else would he do? God damn crazy people. FF7 could be over in 5 minutes if we had the in-game option to buy Lithium or some other happy pills for Cloud and Buffalo Bill. Anthrax comes to mind: "Its a mad house!"
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-07-31 15:08:25
Well, the thought of marrying you is givin' me the chills so there'll be no skip for cross-dressing. As for the game being over in five minutes, to be honest the player party doesn't actually have much of a positive impact in the story's events overall. In fact, the game would probably unfold in a much more positive way if the team stayed put in Sector 7 and had a drink or three.

Their general contribution to the game's events essentially boil down to this:

-) Killed a bunch of people blowing up the first Reactor
-) Killed a bunch of people blowing up the fifth Reactor
-) Trashed the roof of a Church
-) Made a bunch of people feel insecure about themselves in Wall Market
-) Killed a bunch of people by prompting Shinra to bring down the Plate
-) Saved/Messed up a Parade and saved/doomed the network that was televising it
-) Killed a trigger-happy felon (okay that's one point for the home team, I guess)
-) Dragged Vincent out of his stupor so he could emote at people
-) Got the Bronco wrecked by gunfire
-) Solved the Temple puzzle, thereby accelerating Sephiroth's plans
-) Got Aeris back-stabbed
-) Got the Black Materia back before handing it over anyway
-) Potentially saved the inhabitants of Fort Condor (okay, another point there)
-) Potentially stopped a coal train from flattening a few tents and two shops in North Corel
-) Potentially shot down and horribly drowned the crew of the Red Submarine
-) Sabotaged Shinra's probably legit plan to blow up Meteor with a Materia Bomb (granted, the Rocket doesn't work even if the party gets none of the Huge Materia but seeing as the party didn't have an alternative plan to this it seemed a bit like vandalism)
-) Got a projector working again in the Forgotten City
-) Saved Midgar from a Sister Ray explosion (one point for that)
-) Killed Sephiroth in the Crater and gave Holy the opportunity to have the Opposite Effect

The closing caption of this game should be: Mistakes were made, but it all worked out in the end.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-07-31 15:25:13
Well, as for Corel, I do believe that the train was only meant to crash into the village because we kind of killed the driver and the whole crew in the process... And don't forget that it was because of Cloud that the weapons were set loose and killed a few dozens of thousands of people...

The only party member that accomplishes something in all this is the dead one. So the moral of the story is: the people who f*uck up live and the poor flower girl who saved us all got killed.

Jesus christ, this game is even more depressing than what I remember...

Btw, jesus christ, Big Gay Al, cross dressing, Drag, Buffalo Bill (I'm so sad that nobody got this joke)... There seems to be a lot of flower themes coming up lately...

But in all seriousness, I wish we could skip the whole dressing scene. Its the most embarrassing thing I ever did in a video game... Imagine me having to explain this to my friends who were into football games and fighters back then... No wonder the bullies didn't even tried to beat me.

"Mistakes were made, but it all worked out in the end." - Thats what Bill Clinton said [Insert scene showing Horatio Caine putting on his glasses and Won't Get Fooled Again playing loudly with Roger Daltrey saying YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!]
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-07-31 23:27:24
When I level up I noticed a couple things.

Spells like fire, ice, or lightning jump from level 2 to being mastered, was that intentional?
I think it was exit materia, it didn't require the full 100,000 AP to level
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-01 00:38:13
Probably not, that generally happens when the AP requirement for a Materia level is set lower than what it currently is in a save file (so it jumps to the 'correct' level). However, the NT update didn't lower AP requirements so this is a bit worrying. I'll check things on my end and see what's happening.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-08-01 02:08:03
Probably not, that generally happens when the AP requirement for a Materia level is set lower than what it currently is in a save file (so it jumps to the 'correct' level). However, the NT update didn't lower AP requirements so this is a bit worrying. I'll check things on my end and see what's happening.

I did use the Chocobo Save editor to get tifa out of north crater, if that may have affected it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-01 02:32:08
I'm not sure. Save editors tend to be an unknown quantity because they have the game's default stats set to things like Materia. Did the flevel patch not let Tifa leave the crater without soft-locking or was this done before the patch?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: paralleluniverse on 2014-08-01 02:41:36
I'm not sure. Save editors tend to be an unknown quantity because they have the game's default stats set to things like Materia. Did the flevel patch not let Tifa leave the crater without soft-locking or was this done before the patch?

Yeah I used then editor immediately after I found the glitch
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-08-02 10:46:42
Going after every ones final weapons - but can't trigger Barrett sidequest, do I need certain pre requites?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-02 13:12:55
The only requirements should be that Barret is in the party and the game moment is at 1998. You're looking for a treasure chest on the same field screen as the Reactor (should be on a small plateau to the right, accessed by using the other stairs on the previous field screen where Barret dropped Dyne in the flashback).

If it's still not there, and you were using the regular music flevel before, then it means you might need to use a special NPC on the Highwind to fix it. I placed him on the deck where the team parachutes off from; he'll reset all the sidequest variables and make them available again. Let me know if it still doesn't work, or if other sidequests haven't been triggering.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: lappers84 on 2014-08-02 14:37:23
hmm, I can't find anybody on the deck of the highwind
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-02 14:59:53
Did you update the flevel with the latest patch? He was only added for the last version. I'll double check just to make sure he's there.

Edit: Hold off downloading that patch; the NPC is completely busted. Gonna fix him.

Edit 2: Should've mentioned, patches updated.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Magish on 2014-08-06 02:56:51
I have to say, I'm really enjoying the mod. Just got to Icicle, figured I'd share my comments/thoughts.

- The boss battles are juuust the right difficulty, plus all the differences help to make it interesting. Really liked the Gi Nattack, for example, but his tendency to drain and heal nearly as much as I could damage him made the battle take so long :)
- I agree with others that it seems too easy to accidentally over-level. I've only been killing a few groups of enemies per area (mostly to see if I can steal anything good), and I'm afraid to kill much more in case I grind too much and make the rest of the game too easy.
- The Midgar Zolom causes the game to lock up if you're low level. Based on other comments, I think it's trying to use an invalid attack or something.
- The dragon boss in the Temple of the Ancients is weak to lev4 suicide. 2 casts + an attack and he died. Not sure if that's intentional. :p
- The "fall from the clock" pincer attack battle was BRUTAL. Seriously, I died like 4 times to them before I could get enough defenses to survive + fight back. It killed me more than most bosses. :p
- The Demon Wall was pretty tough as well - had to use sadness to survive, then luckily Barret's Added Effect: Shiva slowed one for me. :)
- I managed to get Beta in the Temple of the Ancients - one of the battles for a chest around the clock is against what I think is a pollensalta (sp?) and three frogs, and the girl uses Beta. Not sure if you missed that.
- The second Jenova was cool as well - I liked the gimmick, and used Cloud with the force stealer to wail on her while healing himself, while I gave Cid/Barret absorb accessories and had them mostly heal themselves with elemental spells to distract Jenova. I tried switching one of them for Red XIII so I had 2 people with life-steal at the save point nearby, but the PHS was unavailable at that point.
- I got all the "kills = power" weapons except the ones for Aeris and Red XIII. I tried doing the Speed Square earlier but I got a Wall Ring instead of the umbrella. Not sure if I missed them or not, but I haven't done the Wutai section yet so I'm hoping they're there (or maybe further into the Glacier etc.)
- Once I got enough Edincoats / Wizard Bangles for my party, I haven't switched them out. I think the problem is that the added flexibility/options that all those slots give seems way more useful than a bit more defense or stats or specific resistances. Maybe it'd be different if I knew in advance what each boss did, but atm I'm loathe to use something that halves lightning or absorbs cold instead, when the next 4 bosses might not even use those damage types. Plus, sometimes it's hard figuring out what damtype the attack are - if I didn't read a comment on someone's LP of this, I'd have never guessed that the dragon in the Temple of the Ancients used shout type attacks. (speaking of, would Element + Bahamut give shout type attack/resist?)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-06 03:16:00
I have to say, I'm really enjoying the mod. Just got to Icicle, figured I'd share my comments/thoughts.

- The boss battles are juuust the right difficulty, plus all the differences help to make it interesting. Really liked the Gi Nattack, for example, but his tendency to drain and heal nearly as much as I could damage him made the battle take so long :)
- I agree with others that it seems too easy to accidentally over-level. I've only been killing a few groups of enemies per area (mostly to see if I can steal anything good), and I'm afraid to kill much more in case I grind too much and make the rest of the game too easy.
- The Midgar Zolom causes the game to lock up if you're low level. Based on other comments, I think it's trying to use an invalid attack or something.
- The dragon boss in the Temple of the Ancients is weak to lev4 suicide. 2 casts + an attack and he died. Not sure if that's intentional. :p
- The "fall from the clock" pincer attack battle was BRUTAL. Seriously, I died like 4 times to them before I could get enough defenses to survive + fight back. It killed me more than most bosses. :p
- The Demon Wall was pretty tough as well - had to use sadness to survive, then luckily Barret's Added Effect: Shiva slowed one for me. :)
- I managed to get Beta in the Temple of the Ancients - one of the battles for a chest around the clock is against what I think is a pollensalta (sp?) and three frogs, and the girl uses Beta. Not sure if you missed that.
- The second Jenova was cool as well - I liked the gimmick, and used Cloud with the force stealer to wail on her while healing himself, while I gave Cid/Barret absorb accessories and had them mostly heal themselves with elemental spells to distract Jenova. I tried switching one of them for Red XIII so I had 2 people with life-steal at the save point nearby, but the PHS was unavailable at that point.
- I got all the "kills = power" weapons except the ones for Aeris and Red XIII. I tried doing the Speed Square earlier but I got a Wall Ring instead of the umbrella. Not sure if I missed them or not, but I haven't done the Wutai section yet so I'm hoping they're there (or maybe further into the Glacier etc.)
- Once I got enough Edincoats / Wizard Bangles for my party, I haven't switched them out. I think the problem is that the added flexibility/options that all those slots give seems way more useful than a bit more defense or stats or specific resistances. Maybe it'd be different if I knew in advance what each boss did, but atm I'm loathe to use something that halves lightning or absorbs cold instead, when the next 4 bosses might not even use those damage types. Plus, sometimes it's hard figuring out what damtype the attack are - if I didn't read a comment on someone's LP of this, I'd have never guessed that the dragon in the Temple of the Ancients used shout type attacks. (speaking of, would Element + Bahamut give shout type attack/resist?)

Thanks for the feedback and notes there. About the leveling problem, me and Loseless are working through the game's EXP curve at the moment looking to find a better balance for the v1.2 expansion (that'll have a NG+ attached to it and I wanted there to be some room for further progression past the first playthrough; the second playthrough is planned to be a more compact campaign, not a repeat of the story).

I'd better get that Zolom fixed pronto. Should be easy to repair, though.

I didn't really consider Lv4 Suicide much when going through all the different bosses. I should probably be a bit more strict with it.

Looks like history repeats itself with that battle; the Hardcore mod's version of it is a nightmare too. I'll likely change it so it isn't a pincer anymore, maybe make it against 3x enemies. I think the power of those guys crept up as time went on.

Beta was supposed to be there, yeah. Jemnezmy has it, and Stilva has it as well later.

Glad someone used elemental damage to heal themselves; I think you might be the first to try that.

The Umbrella might be missing from the game; it'll be reinstated for the next update. As for the Hairpin, that should be in Wutai inside one of the secret treasure rooms of Godo's house. There's one next to the beds, and another in the room next to his.

Loseless was saying to me as well that Edincoats + Wizard Bracelets trumped everything else for versatility. There's an equipment re-spec planned for the 1.2 update that should hopefully address the problem without making these armors useless. I'm shifting certain things back to being a little closer to the original game's equipment; the changes got a bit out of hand.

And yeah, Elemental + Bahamut should hopefully give protection (or add to attacks) the Shout Element. Might be a bit broken actually if a lot of high-end attacks use it, I'd better bear that in mind in future.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: AkiraBalance on 2014-08-14 03:14:09
The mod's pretty good so far, but there seems to be a problem with the last battle of the train for the huge materia. For the conductor battle. Something seems to continually cause it to freeze.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-14 13:06:53
I'll check him out and get it fixed; the hot-patch will be up in an hour or so.

Edit: I think I found the problem; Chain Gun had FFFF set for a value. I also fixed up a soft-lock with the Zolom when fighting him with parties below Lv.70. The hotfix patch has been updated, it's applied like the main installer.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: AkiraBalance on 2014-08-14 16:43:19
Works perfectly, thank you!

I think the Fort Condor boss could use a bit of an upgrade though.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-14 19:23:07
The ground will quake at their approach once I'm done with them.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-08-15 01:33:27
Just a heads up, I added the August updates to the catalog. They aren't in the current version I sent you for testing, so you'll witness the bugs above with your 7H copy. I'm wondering if I should wait until everyone completes their run through and you smash the bugs before I release it with 7H. Your choise, what do you want to do?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-15 02:40:42
I'm doing a run-through just now to get the mod re-specced for 1.2 and the new Exp curve that's going to be used to support a NG+ that'll be rolled out a few months later. Might be best to wait; beside whatever bugs remain, the difficulty curve right now is running on quick revisions to try and stave off the player's rapid leveling. Loseless is helping me out with that.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Magish on 2014-08-15 16:26:43
Some more enemies that have issues:
- One of the enemies in Junon for the reactor mission - think it was Soldier 2nd or M-class (lost my notes): lock-up during battle
- Manhole (Midgar raid): another lock-up during battle
- Once when I killed both of Hojo 2's arms, he remained immune to damage. Killed the weaker arm (I think it was left?) first, then the other arm, and he kept on taking 0 damage even after a couple of turns. Had to reload, killed the other arm first, and that time it worked.
- Calamity (Hojo 3): lock up during battle
- Boss for Cid's sidequest: when battle starts. it doesn't appear and game just sits there
- Abyss: less of a crash-type issue, more of an abuse possibility: equip everyone with 3-star elemental: bahamut on armor and let the game sit for an hour. He'll do nothing but heal your party, give them peerless and wall, and damage himself. You don't even have to do anything to win (though admittedly it'll take a while) :p
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-08-15 20:18:37
Will 1.2 be a good version to release, or shall I wait the months later for the NG+ feature? If 1.2 is a stable first playthrough, I can always add the later features as an update patch that 7H will download and install automatically.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-16 00:41:43
Some more enemies that have issues:
- One of the enemies in Junon for the reactor mission - think it was Soldier 2nd or M-class (lost my notes): lock-up during battle
- Manhole (Midgar raid): another lock-up during battle
- Once when I killed both of Hojo 2's arms, he remained immune to damage. Killed the weaker arm (I think it was left?) first, then the other arm, and he kept on taking 0 damage even after a couple of turns. Had to reload, killed the other arm first, and that time it worked.
- Calamity (Hojo 3): lock up during battle
- Boss for Cid's sidequest: when battle starts. it doesn't appear and game just sits there
- Abyss: less of a crash-type issue, more of an abuse possibility: equip everyone with 3-star elemental: bahamut on armor and let the game sit for an hour. He'll do nothing but heal your party, give them peerless and wall, and damage himself. You don't even have to do anything to win (though admittedly it'll take a while) :p

Bit strange, I tested these fights when I updated them. I'll get them all fixed though.

Will 1.2 be a good version to release, or shall I wait the months later for the NG+ feature? If 1.2 is a stable first playthrough, I can always add the later features as an update patch that 7H will download and install automatically.

Judging from that error report above, it looks like it'd definitely be best to wait for 1.2 or even the 1.3 (or whatever it'll be called). I'll get this mod to behave itself one day even if it kills me.

Edit: That's the issues mentioned above (hopefully) repaired. It was mostly just small things like AI not updated with different attack IDs or clashing Attack IDs. For Helletic Hojo, I think I saw the cause of the problem but to play it safe I removed the phys/mag immune flags; those'll be coming back (or something different if I have an idea) for 1.2.

As for Abyss, that's a balance problem caused by most elements being attached to a Materia (like Shout) and most enemy attacks carrying an element because I didn't keep that in mind when speccing those attacks. I'll be keeping it in mind in future, though.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Iceboundphoenix on 2014-08-17 12:48:57
Do you have an eta on when 1.2 will be out looking forward to hacking at it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-08-17 23:28:46
It'll be a month or maybe 6 weeks, I'm afraid. There's a lot of work still to be done.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-08-31 23:48:07
Sorry to parrot basically the exact same question, but I'm just hoping for some info on v1.2 as well. Looking to start streaming my playthrough in the near future, but the NG+ option sounds really cool, so I'm deciding if I should wait or not. Will v1.1 saves work on v1.2 if I was to start early? If not, any news on the patch's progress, for better or worse, would be appreciated.

Really looking forward to trying this mod out and sharing it with the internet at large, thanks for all the effort you've put into it, and thanks for any info. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-01 01:14:05
Here's what's planned for v1.2:

-) New EXP arc (to give me some breathing space for progression into NG+)
-) Respec of enemies + small AI tweaks to bosses
-) Respec of Items/Weapons/Armor (some have been gated off for the NG+)
-) Groundwork laid for NG+ (v1.3)
-) New set of 9 sidequests (for obtaining stronger weapons)
-) Save Nexus implemented (dispenses Sources)

The idea is to repair the balance problem leaving Disc 1 that most players reported and to set things up for a NG+ campaign. The NG+ itself won't be done for a lot longer; it's an overhaul of the game's scenes to make something that's new and not very story-driven.

Save files will load from 1.1 to 1.2, but there might be a visual glitch with the EXP bar due to the new arc (this should correct upon leveling up). Materia might also level/master if the AP requirements have been changed from version to version. v1.2 will be complete in 2 weeks or so; I reckon it'd be good idea to wait but it's up to you.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-09-01 02:04:35
Ahhh, I misunderstood then, thanks for the info! I'll prolly start in the next week or so, and by the time I get towards the end of midgar the new content may be out. Thanks again. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: gjoerulv on 2014-09-03 20:02:10
Sega Chief, do you have any ideas for "ultimate bosses"? Sorry if it's been asked before, but knowing your nerdy knowledge of the game I would love to see some ideas.  8)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-03 23:45:04
Well, my bosses have been a little hit and miss so far but I've got some notes for some mechanics that could turn into something interesting:

Three-Team Fight Super-Boss

-) One thing I noticed in testing with Bizarro was that a three-man fight is actually quite difficult if the Core has to be killed and requires a fair amount of planning, especially if one of the teams only has two people. What I was wanting to do was design a boss around it and set up three very different challenges for each party. Bizarro, the original, tends to have only a little variation in the attacks he uses on each different party but there's no reason the fights couldn't be wildly different from each other. It could even be three separate bosses that are linked to each other through Bizarro's AI.


General stuff

-) Before I released the mod, there was a boss that had a No. 24 (FF6) style 'Barrier Shift' that would change the boss' elemental weakness whenever it took a few hits from its current 'weak' element. I was too inexperienced at the time to get it working properly, but I've always been meaning to go back to it. Something like that could be handy here, maybe coupled with attacks that alter the party's elemental weaknesses as well (so long as this is telegraphed to the player that it has happened).

-) Related to that, something that caused a lot of grief on the NT Mod's Jenova Life fight was the opening 'attack' that sets the player party to nullify the Restorative element, cutting off conventional healing. While I'm planning to change that to 1/2 resistance for the 1.2 release, this mechanic is great for flipping a battle on it's head. Regen can derail it, but some (sparing) use of Resist, Reflect, and/or Dual Drain should be good counters to that.

-) There was a Hardcore Hack (Gameshark) fight where an enemy was reducing MaxHP instead of just Current HP with it's attacks. Replicating that in some fashion for FF7 PC is on my 'to-do' list. The video was here: http://youtu.be/3-WBTbm5Vcw

-) I've also been meaning to look into attacks that disrupt Limit gauges, or which deal damage based on how full/empty these are. I think from what I saw in the save editor that the Limit value clocks in at 0-255 and there's an OpCode for it so maybe-

-) Status Stealing could be a handy trick, by transferring status ailments/buffs from one target to another. A boss that can steal Barrier, Haste, or Peerless would be a pain, or if it were taking these statuses from 'nodes' that only use protective magic on themselves. Or something that can transfer bad status ailments from one character to another, regardless of resistances, could mix things up. Lost number has a bit in his AI to Transfer Status from himself to his next form but not sure if that'd work or not.

-) On that note, I was also wanting to see if an enemy could copy a character's stats and push them into their own stats. Would be handy for 'Mimic' enemies that use the character's model.

-) There's a flag for 'Invisible' which I think is used by Ghosts. It'd be interesting to see what happens if it was used on a player character as part of an attack, or if the player had to trigger this to dodge some incoming super-attack-

-) Adapting to Elemental Weaknesses: I think Karifean was able to get this working for his Super Boss Rush mod, where an enemy would refrain from using attacks that would heal the player and use a different one instead.

-) One thing I've been working with is ways to use enemies differently in boss fights. I had a fight where a Gigas-type enemy would appear with four Bombs and periodically the Gigas would attack the bombs which, if killed, would hit the player with a powerful self-destruct attack so the goal of the fight was to balance attacking with keeping the Bombs healed.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: atro city on 2014-09-04 00:45:02
-) Related to that, something that caused a lot of grief on the NT Mod's Jenova Life fight was the opening 'attack' that sets the player party to nullify the Restorative element, cutting off conventional healing. While I'm planning to change that to 1/2 resistance for the 1.2 release, this mechanic is great for flipping a battle on it's head. Regen can derail it, but some (sparing) use of Resist, Reflect, and/or Dual Drain should be good counters to that.

That's a shame, I liked the fact that no healing forced you to rethink your strategy, and it was flavorful as well. It's kind of terrifying to know that in a boss fight your HP can only go down (without using unorthodox methods of healing). 1/2 resistance would seem more like a minor annoyance than a major problem that has to be dealt with, and would take away from the charm of the boss fight in my opinion. I think a better way of balancing her might just be reducing her HP. Last time I fought her she was sitting on a mountain of it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-04 01:06:31
Maybe you're right, but a problem is that this fight is quite unusual and it comes after a lengthy FMV + scene which makes replaying it a pain. What I could do instead of reducing it to 50% is put a different fight in there and move a more difficult version of this boss to somewhere else, maybe Extra Battle because I need some replacements there.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Insight on 2014-09-08 11:56:05
i have found a bug, i guess. when i have met rufus and trying to escape with aerith and the others, tifa, barret and redxiii just standing there and doing nothing. the scene where tifa says, that i have to go to the elevator and shes waiting for cloud is being initiated when i am getting to the elevator (alone with aerith). then it stucks, because aerith, barret and red xiii moving into one group (dont know how to describe it)

edit:
ps: are you planing to give us a full manual what has changed and what gameplay changes you have made in detail or do we have to guess most of the part by ourselves?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-08 16:04:41
I'll fix that up right away. It's because I added a script to try and get an Inn/Shop NPC to appear without having to leave and re-enter the screen. Not sure why it'd break the rest of it, but I'll remove it if need be.

There should be a link to a manual (which is a little out of date, I'll admit) on the front page of this thread. I'll probably update it once 1.2 is out.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Insight on 2014-09-08 16:06:10
Ah great, you will save my day xD
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-08 16:34:33
That's the fix being uploaded now, it'll be about 5-10 minutes.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Insight on 2014-09-08 16:45:46
That's the fix being uploaded now, it'll be about 5-10 minutes.

You are welcome. I can wait ;)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-08 16:54:12
That's the patches up. The issue was that the NPC's Main script had been cleared, so it was turning over to the Talk script instead. Let me know if it goes wrong again, but it should be fine now. The scene patch was also updated, to fix an issue with Icicle Wolves/Bandersnatches in the Glacier.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Insight on 2014-09-08 17:01:14
That's the patches up. The issue was that the NPC's Main script had been cleared, so it was turning over to the Talk script instead. Let me know if it goes wrong again, but it should be fine now. The scene patch was also updated, to fix an issue with Icicle Wolves/Bandersnatches in the Glacier.

it worked. continue playing later on. ty for your fast reply :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-12 22:00:30
Can anyone who has recently installed the current version of New Threat mod please do me a huge favor. PM me the flevel.lgp from the FF7\Data\Field?? It has to be done from someone who has manually installed the gameplay mod. If you used 7H it won't work. I need this so I can patch some animations that have problems when using my red werewolf mod. This would be soooo helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-13 01:44:59
Woah there, slick. Before you do anything I want details about this, particularly the nature of the changes. We'll chat about it over PM.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: WolfMan on 2014-09-13 06:04:51
Lol. We should probably let everyone know we worked it out Sega. :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-13 12:25:40
So long as it's just loose field files that are being patched in through 7H then that's fine.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-09-23 01:55:56
OP says 1.2 will be released in about a week or so, and the last edit was on 9.14. I can't tell if that message was posted then or not, so just checking in on a status update :) Once 1.2 is released, I'll feature a gameplay video on YT which should pick up some traffic for 7th Heaven as well.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-23 04:33:23
Yeah, I'm running late. I ran into the usual problems with AI and there's other things that eat up time like shifting around items to cover revisions. It's gone a bit slow, but I'm getting there; just need to clear through the Crater and finish off some of the extra fights on the test playthrough. It seems to play a lot better this time; the new EXP arc worked out better than expected.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-09-23 05:39:12
I'm waiting for the 1.2 release to patch my game now as well. As with Alyza; I'll also be trying to give the mod some exposure as I stream my playthrough. I did FFVII hardtype last time and got a stack of viewers, so I should get a good amount of people checking out your hard work as well. \o/

Keep us updated as best you can though. Thanks a bundle. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-23 12:20:28
Will do, bud; I'd appreciate the exposure for the mod. Sorry about the delay but I've got to make sure everything's operational before it goes out. Here's what's left:

Update: 24/09

To-Do List
-) Re-do some AI (Three enemies left)
-) Re-do some enemy models
-) Add 0EXP AI for Disc 2 Boss Menu [X]
-) Revise Kalm Traveller's scripts [X]
-) Change Inn prices
-) Remove remaining debug/testing routines
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Healing Wind on 2014-09-24 21:33:06
I can't wait for v1.2. Once it comes out, I'll try to record the boss battles again. Also, I'll leave a banner on my site.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-24 22:35:18
Cheers, Flare; I'd appreciate that. I'll make a link for your channel (and for the others) on this thread's main post when 1.2 goes out. And let's hope no pesky Type-5 Sweepers pop up this time  :-X
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-25 19:41:35
Update 25/09

So the enemies and bosses have now been re-specced with AI problems sorted out (Reno using Turk Poisona on the player :I). Way it works out, it seems that Lv70 is going to be roughly where the 'normal' run of the game ends so I'm placing pre-battle AI to set EXP given to 0 once this level is reached. Simple copy-paste job for the majority of enemies who had their AI cleaned up.

The goal now is to get the item allocation 'right' so that it doesn't need anymore tweaks or changes in the future.

Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-26 15:48:32
Update 26/09

Made general enhancements, such as save points where one is needed (Rocket Launch, Weapon Raid, etc.) and fixing up some bad/wrong animations & misaligned text that was in the original PC version. I've lost confidence in the whole 'find items to unlock 'X' Boss' system for the Extra Battle so I'll be relaxing the conditions for that to speed things along. Doing the item allocation today, and if there's time tonight I'll get the debug routines out and add a few extra surprises to make a play-through more exciting. I think Monday is a realistic target to shoot for.

Work remaining
-) Re-do AI for the Summon Materia Cave boss (and add enemy encounters to these caves, perhaps as a leveling/item thing)
-) Last enemy model tweaks (getting rid of Palmer's horrible blue suit)
-) Double-check Battle Square/Special Battle
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2014-09-28 02:46:00
got to say i am super excited for this and once tifa adds it to the 7th heaven catalog after it comes out I shall be bashing a play through
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-28 09:01:25
I'm pretty excited too. I think it plays a lot better from the Temple to the Crater than it did previously, and I was able to make some devious things happen with some of the new bosses. Right now I've got to put all the support materials together such as a new manual and, more importantly, an extensive list of where to find all the items, Materia, E.Skills, and some notes on why certain things were changed; it was a common complaint that it was tough to track down specific stuff because it was shuffled around quite a bit but a list should sort it out.

Right now I'm adding whatever small touches I can and testing them out. Mostly I'm just making the new NPCs a bit more animated, refining their dialogue, and trying to improve the 9 character-specific sidequests which maybe weren't very side-questy (a lot of their bosses weren't too great either in terms of AI but I reckon the revised batch should be a better fight). What I'm looking forward to is just adding extra end-game stuff every few weeks or so to keep building the mod up and up; wasn't able to do it properly before because the mod lost it's balance completely going into Disc 2. That should help things to tick over until I get this New Game+ campaign scripted up and rolling. And I'm always open to ideas for stuff to put in if you have suggestions; got a big notepad full of them that'll (probably) get implemented at some point.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Insight on 2014-09-29 06:15:18
/thumbs up :)

Sounds good. Haven't played for a while since ff XIV happened. Give it another try probably with the new version
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-09-29 06:17:17
Thanks for the updates. I had the idea I was going to play/stream this since April now but been really busy this year, so I'm also super excited to try it out. The more I hear about it, the more amazing it sounds. \o/

Can't wait. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-29 13:57:10
It might be ready for release tonight; I'm clearing through the last points on my fixit checklist today.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-09-29 15:26:11
Looking forward to the new content  8-)
Will you be uploading a new youtube trailer/installation video for it, or renaming your older one to 1.2?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-29 15:56:32
I may as well make a new one; the old one has v1.1 written on the installer footage.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2014-09-29 21:11:24
I may as well make a new one; the old one has v1.1 written on the installer footage.
but more importantly how is that checklist going :P
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-29 21:46:58
Yeah, I'll make the promo stuff after the new version is uploaded, priorities and all that  :wink:

All the fixes and tweaks are cleared in my list. Last thing that's being done right now is expanding the new sidequest's interface a little more.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2014-09-29 22:40:41
Yeah, I'll make the promo stuff after the new version is uploaded, priorities and all that  :wink:

All the fixes and tweaks are cleared in my list. Last thing that's being done right now is expanding the new sidequest's interface a little more.

Oh I'm so excited I think I have nibbled my nails clean off my fingers! This is going to seriously impact my law studies haha :P
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: PapSnatchBrim [SwornEnemy] (DMR) on 2014-09-30 00:36:48
dude , been checking everyday for the past 2 weeks, i hope you upload soon.

(http://images.nintendolife.com/users/14338/avatar.jpg?v=1396368372)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-30 02:27:16
I'M GOIN' AS FAST AS I CAN

(http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h340/djwerewolf1/smiles/Sonic_SYZRI5.gif)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-30 18:13:13
Update: 30/09

Alright, I think that's it ready for release. I had to lock the new sidequest while I figure out some bugs but I can unlock it once it's done (I think the field I set it up in is interfering with the way it functions so I'm re-ordering it or migrating it to another field screen). In any case, the goal of the 1.2 patch was to address the crippled balance of 1.1, refine stuff, and lay groundwork for a NG+ extension.

I'm putting the installer together and it'll be uploaded by tonight. I didn't run into many issues during the playthrough and I fixed up any remaining problems that I found, so here's hoping for a bug-free release.

After 1.2's release, I'll be working on a few projects. The first isn't directly related to the NT Mod itself, but a 'classic-type' field model revision that was started by Kalderasha. He's too busy with his other mods to carry it on at the moment, so I'm going to have a stab at covering the rest of the characters and some of the NPCs based on his notes. I've packed these field models in with the NT Mod for now, so people can see them in action.

The others are content expansions for the NT Mod. I'd like to have a stab at re-enabling disabled scenes or re-purposing them in some way. I'm also wanting to work on a new 7H-only dungeon like the FF Advance games had (something that re-uses field screens with different puzzles, enemies, etc). The idea would be to get some experience for myself working with 7H to swap out files like the scene, kernel, and .lgps before swapping back in without running into issues.

But for now, I'll work on getting that new sidequest up and running. Once the mod is uploaded, let me know if you run into anything that's a) broken, or b) too easy/unreasonable (in terms of difficulty). Everything from the start to Hojo was specced up using a party that was front row and had no Sadness; Barriers were used intermittently for the tougher random fights (like against big solo enemies) but I tried to avoid taking them into account when setting up the regular enemy groups.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-09-30 22:25:59
Right, that's it up. Let's hope nothing goes wrong with this release for at least one week for a few days.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PapSnatchBrim [SwornEnemy] (DMR) on 2014-09-30 23:52:22
nice one pal. il test it out in the morning,
if you are making field models http://www.mediafire.com/download/znlyz43vvhz/Mxster%27s+Chibi+Reconstruction+V1.6.exe (http://www.mediafire.com/download/znlyz43vvhz/Mxster%27s+Chibi+Reconstruction+V1.6.exe)
you can have these, these are field models me and my cousin started making about 5 years ago, they may be of some use to you
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-01 00:09:31
It was funny seeing an older version of Patchmaker there; I'll give these a gander and see what's what.

Edit: Oh, it's this mod! Well, that explains the expertise you had with Kimera before. Cheers for this, I'll harvest these up for parts. I'm wanting to try and keep the original 'shape' of the field models and just add details and colour adjustments to them but there's a lot of parts here that'll fit nicely, I reckon.

By the way, does this mod of yours have a release thread or was it buried? It's quite a thorough revision and well-made.

Edit 2: I see this has several release threads. Quite interesting, it's been passed about from modder to modder.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Healing Wind on 2014-10-01 00:34:48
I installed this version about an hour ago. I only recorded about 30 minutes of it. Well, if I run into an error, I'll message you from YouTube.  :lol:

EDIT: Well, I was one warning away from getting a strike on YouTube, so I took the video down. I'll try my best to only record boss battles right after Midgar.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-01 01:00:56
Righto, I'll be waiting for the inevitable doomsday message.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: AkiraBalance on 2014-10-01 07:26:16
Er. For some reason the experience gaining is acting up. The animation and image of the experience bar goes past its...endpoints and it says i need around 400,000 exp to get to the next level.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Cozzer on 2014-10-01 11:58:10
Hi. FF7 is probably my favorite game from the PS era, and when I found this site I've been hit by a ton of nostalgia.
I managed to get this mod working, and I really like the idea of providing a difficult but fair challenge to the "average level" players since I dislike both grinding and low level runs.

I just wanted to ask... has anybody managed to get this mod and the "beacause" retranslation working together?
I tried installing both of them on a clean installation of the old 4CD version (without other mods and without using bootleg or other managers), but I'm still seeing the old dialogues.
(I used the Reunion installer to install beacause, unselecting everything else)
I've seen that this mod adds new lines of dialogue, so maybe it sort of overwrites the retranslated dialogues too?

Thanks for any help, I'll give feedback on balance and things as I go on with the New Threat playthrough. For now, I can just say that the bombing mission is spot on for a "introductory dungeon". I really liked the guard scorpion surprise. :P
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-01 14:14:20
Er. For some reason the experience gaining is acting up. The animation and image of the experience bar goes past its...endpoints and it says i need around 400,000 exp to get to the next level.

Yeah, if the patch is applied and a 1.1 save file is loaded then the EXP gauge experiences a visual glitch because the amount of EXP needed was changed. Once the character levels up (although that might take a while) it should correct itself; as far as I know it's mostly harmless.

Hi. FF7 is probably my favorite game from the PS era, and when I found this site I've been hit by a ton of nostalgia.
I managed to get this mod working, and I really like the idea of providing a difficult but fair challenge to the "average level" players since I dislike both grinding and low level runs.

I just wanted to ask... has anybody managed to get this mod and the "beacause" retranslation working together?
I tried installing both of them on a clean installation of the old 4CD version (without other mods and without using bootleg or other managers), but I'm still seeing the old dialogues.
(I used the Reunion installer to install beacause, unselecting everything else)
I've seen that this mod adds new lines of dialogue, so maybe it sort of overwrites the retranslated dialogues too?

Thanks for any help, I'll give feedback on balance and things as I go on with the New Threat playthrough. For now, I can just say that the bombing mission is spot on for a "introductory dungeon". I really liked the guard scorpion surprise. :P

There's a new(ish) mod manager being developed called 7th Heaven (7H) that handles stuff like that. Basically, my installer is a bit of a brute that just overwrites the game's core files but with 7H it could be possible (to a certain degree) to have both running together. I'd need to break the mod down into it's constituent parts first though, and I'd like to wait at least one week for initial bug reports and to get this locked sidequest debugged.

In the meantime, the NT Installer would definitely have to be used first because of it's 'overwrite everything' approach with Reunion going on second; I'm not sure if the Reunion installer will only alter texts and not the actual scenes themselves (there's a tonne of revisions to the way certain fields work to handle certain things like different party leaders) but it might be worth a shot.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PapSnatchBrim [SwornEnemy] (DMR) on 2014-10-01 14:24:37
It was funny seeing an older version of Patchmaker there; I'll give these a gander and see what's what.

Edit: Oh, it's this mod! Well, that explains the expertise you had with Kimera before. Cheers for this, I'll harvest these up for parts. I'm wanting to try and keep the original 'shape' of the field models and just add details and colour adjustments to them but there's a lot of parts here that'll fit nicely, I reckon.

By the way, does this mod of yours have a release thread or was it buried? It's quite a thorough revision and well-made.

Edit 2: I see this has several release threads. Quite interesting, it's been passed about from modder to modder.

this is the original thread http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8857.0
i was thinking about carrying on with this earlier this year but i couldnt be arsed basically,
i hope youll be able to use some parts from this,, peace out brother!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Cozzer on 2014-10-01 14:27:52
Quote
There's a new(ish) mod manager being developed called 7th Heaven (7H) that handles stuff like that. Basically, my installer is a bit of a brute that just overwrites the game's core files but with 7H it could be possible (to a certain degree) to have both running together. I'd need to break the mod down into it's constituent parts first though, and I'd like to wait at least one week for initial bug reports and to get this locked sidequest debugged.

Thank you! I'll wait, I'd really like to manage to have both your gameplay and their translation.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Cozzer on 2014-10-08 07:07:48
I can finally give you some feedback.
The Midgar part went smoothly (except for Air Buster: the increased difficulty made the fact that I couldn't see where it was actually facing quite annoying).
Normal encounters have their strength increased so that you can't just mash attack and heal between battles, but are still quick enough to avoid becoming tiring.
Boss battles are VERY long. They're boss battles, so that's ok, and they force you to use some ethers, but still sometimes I found myself slightly bored towards the end; for example, during the battle against the scorpion on the Shinra Building.
I really like the new miniboss battles, though. They generally make sense and keep you on your toes. Also, I liked how you made the scorpion a recurring miniboss; I'd actually like if it kept showing up until the end.

I defeated the bosses in the elevator (they were pretty hard) and now I'm stuck at the Cloud vs Rufus fight. I tried it a few times, and I really can't see how I can win this without loading a previous save and grinding...

EDIT: Ok, I had forgotten that I could just put Cloud in the back row; after doing that, the Rufus fight was challenging but doable. Now I've just gotten out of Midgar.

For now the mod has been very enjoyable. The "main" battles keep you on your toes, but never give you the feeling that the game is "cheating" or that it requires grinding.

For now I think I'll keep Tifa as a healer (high dexterity and the armor that gives her even more), Barret as a fighter/support/tank with cover materia and protect vest and Cloud as the main attacker with magic.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-08 15:08:12
Remember that you have the Lv.2 Barrier Materia that Aeris had equipped when she joined; it'll become more and more useful as you advance into the game and they were used during balancing so it could be tough to win without them. If they're running out too fast, consider using Wait ATB (even on the fastest speed, Barriers will last for a useful amount of time on Wait; on Active full speed, they tend to be almost unusable). As far as boss battles go, I was aiming for about 10mins but minibosses should only take 3-4. I'll maybe revise that Scorp's HP or defences for a faster miniboss fight there.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Cozzer on 2014-10-08 21:54:42
Yeah, I was already using both Barrier and Wait ATB (I kept the battle speed around the middle) but without using the back row I just couldn't hurt that goddamn panther fast enough to overcome her White Wind.
I like how having more materias in the early stage of the game makes the battles more strategic.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-10-09 10:54:10
I haven't tried this version yet (and god knows how depressing that is for me), but you can try to poison them and play turtle. Poison+All, wait until the dog thing dies and then go offence with Bio, although limit breaks could easily do him. Sadness can also help.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Cozzer on 2014-10-09 16:17:00
I did use poison, but just turtling wouldn't work because the panther uses White Wind once in a while.
Anyway, after switching Cloud to the back row I was able to manage a good enough offense and kill it without having to use Sadness too.

Now I just defeated the flying boss on the beach at Junon. For now my strategy mostly works, and the battles are just difficult enough.
Physical attacks are basically useless against bosses, though, so I may switch out Barret for a better magic user and demote Tifa to full-time healing+support.

Really enjoying the mod, I'll keep giving feedback as I go on!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-09 17:09:19
One thing I might not have counted on is the loss of the Power Wrist as a guaranteed drop; however, you could give Elemental + [Spell] in your weapon a go; it'll give it an Element which can double the attack power of physical hits. There's also a weapon on the Cargo Ship, Wind Slash, that has an innate Wind element attached to it; very handy for killing those thunder birds on Mt. Corel.

I haven't written up the manual yet, but I've went with a consistent element system for this mod which runs as:
-) Big/Heavy enemy: Weak to Earth, Immune or resistant to Wind + Gravity (lot of bosses fall into this)
-) Flying enemy: Immune to Earth, but takes 2x damage from Wind and Gravity (large flying enemies tend to be resistant to Gravity though)
-) Bug/Insect/Beast/Plant: General enemies tend to be weak to Fire and Ice. Kalm Fangs, Capparwires, and Search Crowns are an example.
-) Mechanical: Bolt and Water, of course, but Poison does nothing.
-) Human: Weak to Poison; is maybe a little TOO effective during boss fights with Turks, etc.

The other two factors that can override elemental affinities is the location of a monster or if it has attacks linked to a certain element. If an element they use is something they'd normally be weak to, then it overrides it (like that Thundergunner absorbing Bolt). But sometimes it means they'll be weak to other things, like the fire-based Rubicante GT being weak to Ice on top of the usual mechanical weaknesses. As far as area goes, best example is the Great Glacier; most of the enemies there will resist or absorb Ice but be weak to Fire. The Crater has one too, though less obvious; most enemies down there are weak to Holy but strong against Hidden.

Idea behind it is that a player can guess what an enemy is weak to or plan ahead if they know what kind of enemies to expect in each area of the game.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-10-09 17:15:03
The problem with the poison weakness was always that enemies, besides getting double damaged, also get poisoned. I might be off here, but I think enemies that can't be poisoned are also immune to poison damage. Thus fights against the Turks tend to be easy thanks to them getting sick with anthrax or something.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-09 17:17:50
That's exactly right; the early fights with Turks still suffer the same problem, but I gave Reno an attack called 'Turk Poisona' which restores HP and heals the Poison status. He also does something...unusual in the Gelnika fight so we'll see how that goes down  :evil:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-10-09 20:12:34
The problem with the poison weakness was always that enemies, besides getting double damaged, also get poisoned. I might be off here, but I think enemies that can't be poisoned are also immune to poison damage. Thus fights against the Turks tend to be easy thanks to them getting sick with anthrax or something.

I actually changed this in my mod with NFITC1's help. I'll look up where he explained it to me and hand the changes to Sega.
It unhinges the poison status from the poison element. the poison status damage is non-element then and the poison element immunity does not also grant poison status immunity.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-09 21:39:52
That could be handy; Poison is always tricky to use on advanced attacks because status immunity means the entire attack fails. And I've been wanting to get into .exe editing; any chance of some pointers about changing Materia equip effects too? I was messing around with the default ones but the options were too limited.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-10-10 11:10:47
I don't keep my strawberries documented(yes, I now, too, know what an idiotic thing that is to do) so that's gonna be a real hassle.

Materia strawberries
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13647.0

The actual "attack" that poison inflicts is hard-coded in the exe that just sets the element and power. The element is set as a word and located at 0x5C9FCB (0x1C93CB). It's traditionally set to 0010h. Set that to any element mask you want. 0000h would be non-elemental.

I've been very distracted with lots of IRL stuff, but I've given this another look-over and believe I've found the location of the cause. I'll give a little detail:

First of all, remember this address for me: 0x43374D. This is the start of the cause of it all.

In a nutshell, if a target nullifies the poison element then they are granted poison status immunity. Makes sense, right? Why needlessly inflict a status that will do a 0 damage attack.
However, if they're immune to the poison status they instantly get granted poison element immunity. That sort of makes sense. If they can't be poisoned then they shouldn't be vulnerable to the element that should cause it. This would make attacks like Bio do no damage to a victim that is immune to the status. I see the logic, but only in a deeply-thought out way.

I think that's right. The asm is getting a little confusing and I'm making one or two assumptions. Either way, make this change:
Code: [Select]
0x433765 (0x032B65)  74 -> EB
and tell me if that satisfies your need. Fastest way I can think is the Custom Sweepers or Devil Rides outside Midgar, but it's up to you.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-10 14:38:26
Cheers for the info, I got my first hex edit done- well, I changed a 74 to an EB but it's a start.

Edit: I did the Materia things too! Took me a bit to figure out that the negative values were counting backwards from 0 into FF and that it's every other number, etc. but I got there. Tested it out too, now I can give Materia a bit more of a kick to make 'em more dimensional.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-11 21:29:47
I have a quick question. So I tried to see if I could get Bootleg running with this using just grahic and audio mods and the like. No luck there apart from menus being different and audio and stuff.

Anyway, I am just wondering if something weird happened with the NT mod as a result? Tifa and Barret and Aerith are way stronger than Cloud, their initial equipment is ridiculously strong and I think even has Triple Materia Growth. Well, Barret's and Tifa's did.

I know nothing about modding and maybe this is impossible to be an accident. I figured at first maybe it was just an intentional facet of the mod to help make me stronger and prepare for the challenges ahead. TheN Barret killed Air Buster with one Limit break... That made me think something was amiss.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Vgr on 2014-10-11 22:30:40
Did you start a new game with the mod, or load an existing savegame? You need to always start a new game with the mod, or things like that can happen.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-12 00:16:09
Yeah, that's basically the problem. There's not a lot of weapons to work with for certain characters that can't be bought from shops (especially for Aeris) so I had the idea of converting their starting weapon to a triple AP one instead (Gatling, Leather Knuckle, and the Guard Stick are almost a tier below the Buster Sword so they're like 'wasted' weapons in a sense, but more crucially they're not available in shops).

When hitting New Game, the kernel is read for Initial character data (starting weapons, Materia, etc.) By loading a save file created on an unmodded version of the game, this information has already been set so you have the original starting weapons which are now much stronger than before. However, you'll also miss out on the new Materia that characters have; Aeris joins with Barrier, Heal, and Revive for instance. I'd recommend always starting from a New Game when trying out a gameplay mod (even though we've all seen the intro a million times; I had a skip for it originally, but it crashed the Steam version for some reason).

Edit: Applying graphical mods has to be done with a bit of care in this mod. While the field models can be replaced with no issues (although a Young Cid and a red-haired guy may pop up in certain places because they were replaced with different models), if the extra battle models are lost due to an overwrite then the mod will crash at some point when it tries to load a new enemy that doesn't exist anymore. If it's possible, you could try applying the NT Mod first and then applying the Bootleg graphical patches afterwards; my installer is very 'robust' in that it just flat-out overwrites the files rather than just the ones it changes.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-12 01:20:04
Yeah I started a New Game. Air Buster was A LOT harder this time around and kicked my ass several times. Fortunately, Cloud saved me the fourth attempt because his Braver did some ridiculous amounts of damage. Like 500 i think it was.
I am glad I started it over though. It's not only harder and thus more interesting, it has all the new Materia you mentioned. I like that. :)

I'm not too fussed about the Bootleg Field Models and stuff though. NT has new gameplay and stuff so that's enough "newness" for me. I'll mess about with making everything prettier in my next playthrough after I hopefully beat NT. God knows if I'll be able to but I'll try. I'm hardly an expert at FFVII - I just find the plain old game boring and wanted unique tweaks to it to make playing it over again a fresh experience. NT offers that freshness and seems like a lot of fun. I just hope I'm up to the challenge.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-12 01:29:23
Well, thanks for giving the mod a shot. The three keys to success are:
-) Wait ATB + Barriers are always a good thing to have in boss fights.
-) A nice stock of status-healing items (some now heal two statuses; Echo Drops cover Silence and Darkness while Maiden's Grace heal Confusion and Berserk).
-) Saving often! Got a fair few new encounters in there, but there's new save points around the place too.

If you need ideas for strats against a tough boss, there's some playthroughs on YT that could do the trick otherwise you can ask me (either through comment or PM) and I'll give you some detailed info. Hope you enjoy it, bud!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-10-12 09:04:16
You should have modified the shops, Sega :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-12 12:49:06
That would have made things simpler, true. At the end, with some major shuffling, I managed to get most characters a triple AP weapon and three 'ult' weapons (Mag, Vit/Spr, and Dex/Lck) with the Disc 2 Costa/Junon weapons squeezed into the bracket between Icicle and Mideel. Besides someone starting from a non-mod save file the equipment tiers should be intact as they are.

I've got a custom .exe in the works though; I went trawling through the Scripting/Reverse-Engineering threads for any post made by NFITC1 and Bosola handy info I could edit the .exe with. So far, I've got:

-) Changes to Materia equip effects for more strategy in set-up and a nerf to how much mastered Materia sells for
-) Adjustments for certain limit breaks to make them stronger (Breath of the Earth, Cosmo Memory, and All Creation for starters)
-) The long range flag for enemy attacks (well, the short range flag) so certain enemy physical attacks ignore target's row
-) Small tweaks to buying/selling prices and a new secret shop

I'll maybe go hunting again at some point, in the trouble-shooting thread.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-12 13:43:00
I'm not exactly looking for help but just figured I'd post my progress and maybe at the end see if you or anyone else have any pointers. If that's okay?

I realize this is largely my own fault but that boss that you fight at the end of the Motorcycle game and before you leave Midgar was a nightmare. I had used up all my Potions in the Shinra building on various dumb things so Aerith with my single Restore was my only source of Healing. I knew i should have bought another Restore while in the Slums but...I'm dumb. Anyway, that boss fight had me praising the Save Anywhere function because otherwise I'd be screwed. I died at least three or four times to it the first round and then I beat him. Only then the game froze when I tried to enter the World Map. So guess who had to do the fight all over again. I died another three or four times before winning again. This time the World Map loaded and I'm at Kalm but I'm too tired to bother with Cloud's Flashback right now.

That boss fight has me expend my precious Hi Potions though, I'm down to 2 or 3. And I'm completely out of Ethers since Magic seems to be the only way to do good damage.

I restocked on Potions in Kalm and got Sense and a ton more Dirty Bombs. I love those things. I'm not sure if they do a whole lot but it's free damage against some bosses so far. I'm not complaining.  Don't think I need a Poison or Steal Materia though because Yuffie will still be joining my party soon, correct? So I'll have 2 Steals then and that's more than enough.

Gil is a precious, precious commodity in this game. I am a natural hoarder and always make sure I have a nice chunk of Gil left over. I never break myself when shopping in JRPGs. This is true for normal games let alone difficulty mods. I only dared to buy a couple more Phoenix Downs, 1 more Tent and a new weapon for Aerith. I have about 4,000 Gil left but I don't feel it's wise to let it go any lower given the scarcity of Gil so far and the fact I'll want to buy more stuff once I reach Junon.

Anyway, I'm really enjoying myself. I know it's probably foolish of me to think so but I feel, now I'm "free" things might become a bit more....straightforward? I dunno. Like I can start to grind. Not Level grinding or anything (unless that's necessary?) but just grinding for Gil and Items.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-12 14:51:16
You're not alone with the Motorball thing; I have this curse where any boss that appears at the end of a lengthy segment (Jenova LIFE being the other one) hits a difficulty spike that I didn't want. What I should do is review how that segment works, but I'm not sure what would be an appropriate replacement. Motorball has to be fought at the end of the motorbike game and it's kind of the climax to the Midgar Escape, so...

There is a shop available when Aeris reaches the first floor, up the staircase on the second floor (as well as the new shop on the floor where the Gunners are fought) but as random encounters are disabled at that point the player might not be able to stock up on Potions/Phens if they have no money left (seems the Poverty Mod is living up to it's unofficial nickname :l). I'm wondering what I can do about the Ether thing though; I need to get players to make use of physical hits a little more to ease the strain on MP, probably.

A good alternative to magic is [Element]+Elemental materia in the weapon and a stack of cheap Grenades; both together can hit for a nice bit of damage when Limits pile onto it. Yuffie is joining soon with the Time Materia and a Slow-Haste advantage over a boss can greatly boost your damage output, especially if you grab some Carbon Bangles/Shinra Betas to up your Dex stat. That can be good for phys-set-ups in the early game. In Junon, I'd recommend checking out the shop there; he sells Echo Drops now that'll be useful for the boss (otherwise, Capparwires in the nearby forests/beaches carry them).

Don't worry about fighting a lot; there's 'hard caps' in the levels that are difficult to get through on random encounters alone. Bosses cut into these caps quite well and so far it seems to have performed the miracle of making grindy and not-so-grindy players stick to a similar level. It should hopefully not be necessary to grind at all until you reach the Crater but try not to rush either.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Tenko Kuugen on 2014-10-12 15:50:59
I'll maybe go hunting again at some point, in the trouble-shooting thread.

It's easier to look through the gameplay forum and for threads I made
There's a bunch of other stuff you can use.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-13 00:27:58
You're not alone with the Motorball thing; I have this curse where any boss that appears at the end of a lengthy segment (Jenova LIFE being the other one) hits a difficulty spike that I didn't want. What I should do is review how that segment works, but I'm not sure what would be an appropriate replacement. Motorball has to be fought at the end of the motorbike game and it's kind of the climax to the Midgar Escape, so...

There is a shop available when Aeris reaches the first floor, up the staircase on the second floor (as well as the new shop on the floor where the Gunners are fought) but as random encounters are disabled at that point the player might not be able to stock up on Potions/Phens if they have no money left (seems the Poverty Mod is living up to it's unofficial nickname :l). I'm wondering what I can do about the Ether thing though; I need to get players to make use of physical hits a little more to ease the strain on MP, probably.

A good alternative to magic is [Element]+Elemental materia in the weapon and a stack of cheap Grenades; both together can hit for a nice bit of damage when Limits pile onto it. Yuffie is joining soon with the Time Materia and a Slow-Haste advantage over a boss can greatly boost your damage output, especially if you grab some Carbon Bangles/Shinra Betas to up your Dex stat. That can be good for phys-set-ups in the early game. In Junon, I'd recommend checking out the shop there; he sells Echo Drops now that'll be useful for the boss (otherwise, Capparwires in the nearby forests/beaches carry them).

Don't worry about fighting a lot; there's 'hard caps' in the levels that are difficult to get through on random encounters alone. Bosses cut into these caps quite well and so far it seems to have performed the miracle of making grindy and not-so-grindy players stick to a similar level. It should hopefully not be necessary to grind at all until you reach the Crater but try not to rush either.

Thank you for your advice. I just got done defeating Jenova-VECTOR after losing an ungodly number of times.  I ended up using all 30 of my Potions and even then it was a really close thing. With her down to less than 1K HP she used this move called...Electrosurge maybe? Whatever it is, she ALWAYS used it twice in a row. Cloud dead, Yuffie dead, Aerith barely alive, I somehow managed to revive Cloud and Yuffie and scrape out a win.  I have no Ethers, I used up this Ghost Hand I stole earlier as well as a Turbo Ether I stole from..Rude I think. Or Elena. One of them.

In short, I'm right screwed at the moment in terms of MP restoring items.  I also broke myself restocking on Potions and Phoenix Downs so I'm in a bad way. I suppose I'll need to start buying Hi potions soon but right now 300 HP is definitely enough to keep us alive.

I did take your advice though. Once i realized she was weak to Earth, I had Cloud as my main damage dealer with Earth-Elemental doing 200 damage a swing.

Also question - does every boss have a couple items to steal? I notice this when I die several times and repeat the boss. Like, Motorball had a Platinum Bangle and some other stuff. Jenova VECTOR I think had a Fire Ring but my successful attempt ended up with a Safety Bit.

One more question - would you recommend Sadness as a way to deal with damage? Or if I'm depending too much on that it means I'm doing something wrong? I've been avoiding using it for precisely that reason.

EDIT:

Looking at a video of another person fighting Jenova VECTOR, although they had a completely different party than I did (Tifa and Barret vs. my Yuffie and Aerith) they also seemed to get more hits in, even without Haste. Perhaps I need to prioritize Dex? I figured Defense was the most important thing so I didn't bother with getting any Shinra Betas... I'm dumb. I still have the thing Yuffie joined up with though but she's only 1/3. The other two will still be too slow it seems.

I also bought another Restore Materia but maybe I should have used my money on some nw attack materia, like another Ice or Fire or whatever. I'm just a very defensive, cautious player and I should be more offensive.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-13 01:13:34
There should be enemies that carry Ethers, here's a list of some in that area:

Corel - Mt. Corel - Corel Prison
-) Grangalan: Drop (rare)
-) Quarry Quail: Drop (V. Rare or Morph)
-) Search Crown: Drop (V.Rare or Morph)
-) Bloatfloat: Drop (V.Rare or Morph)
-) Bullmotor: Drop (V.Rare or Morph)

It's maybe too much to expect enough to drop, but you could try setting up in North Corel's Inn and using your Gravity Materia to soften up groups of Search Crowns and then picking them off with Morph; tricky work, but it'll get you a few, plus whatever happens to drop naturally.

Bosses up to about Gi Nattak had a sort of roulette on equipment drops; it was to help make people's playthroughs a little bit different and add some spice to it. There were some quite rare things like a Fire Armlet and even a Curse Ring to get from some of them. Curious thing is, they don't break the game too much at that level.

What I'll say is that there's no wrong way to play the game. Use what you have to, Sadness does have it's drawback of curbing Limit Breaks and they're generally harder to fill in this mod as it is so it'll balance out in that sense.

The VECTOR fight you saw was from someone who played through 1.1 of the mod, so they had an idea of what to expect. The Dexterity stat is often overlooked like Vitality, Spirit, and Luck but it's one of the best stats if you can boost it high enough. VECTOR also has BIRTH's original AI structure, so after it uses what was originally Stop (VECTOR uses Transducer instead, I think) there's a big 'pause' where the boss skips through turns until it reaches it's three waves of attacks. That's the window the LPer took advantage of to land a flurry of attacks using a high Dex stat before VECTOR started up. If they'd used Haste and Slow as well then that gap would have been huge.

I'd save money for items and equipment, I think. You'll want to work on replenishing your item stores so you have a safety net going forward into the next boss fights.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-13 03:53:09
I'm in Corel Prison right now. Where do I get the Morph materia in this?

But even without it, Corel was a huge help. I spent a lot of time grinding for Gil there and got a nice new supply of Potions and Phoenix Downs Also got everyone decked out with Carbon Bangles too.

I also caught Aerith up on levels. She died in both the Motorball and Bottomswell boss fights but now she's Level 21 just like everyone else. I finally feel like I have things under control again.

Thank you for your prompt replies and advice. I think I will do asyou suggest and mainly just buy Items and Equipment unless a Materia looks really handy.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-13 04:01:52
Good to hear you've got a handle on things again. There's a not so well known item shop in the Corel Prison if you need to re-stock, it's in the ramshackle house in the bottom right of the main area (down from where you go to find Barret the first time).

But the Morph Materia should be in your inventory by now; it was in the garden beside Aeris' House, replacing the Cover Materia that's usually there...that makes me worry about the flevel in your game. Quick question; is there a save point in the junkyard screen where the Deathclaws and Bullmotors appear?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-13 05:26:44
Do you mean where the optional miniboss is right before the screen with Dyne?  Yeah there was a Save point there.

I think i just missed Morph because I'm a dumbass. I remember searching the garden but I didn't notice it. Well then I am probably screwed.  The earliest you can get back into Midgar is middle of Disc 2.  I just hope the game isn't impossible without it....

I will miss all those Ethers...

EDIT:

Holy...! There' sa shop in Cosmo Canyon that sells Ethers! And not a bad price at only 1500 I think. I'm not going Nanaki's subplot/Cage of the Gi tonight but this is so good to know. Once that's all done with I can get some moneys and stock up on Ethers. Probably at least 10-15 of them. I have 3 right now. Luckily I have had so much MP of late I haven't needed Ethers nearly as much.

EDIT 2:

Okay, I lied, I went and did most of the GI Cave but now I'm stuck on Gi Nattak. I cannot for the life of me figure out the solution to this puzzle since it has to be a puzzle boss, right? The little things heal him for about 5K with their Demi3 and obviously there is no way I can deal with that kind of recovery.  So there has to be a trick to beating him that I'm just not seeing.

EDIT 3:

So was the answer "just outlast them"? Because that's what I ended up doing. Once they expended all their MP they couldn't do crap anymore and then it was a relatively simple matter of killing the main boss with plain old physical attacks.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Loseless on 2014-10-13 10:32:20
Nikkolas, I'm finding it strange that you're having such difficulties with Ethers. I haven't played this version yet, but I beta tested most of the principles applied here and maybe at fault for the lack of money and ethers :P

What I thought of was that, since there are 9 party characters, players should have to use them all. I tested the game with MP values as high or maybe higher than those used here and never used Ethers outside of boss fights. When a character ran out of MP I'd just use another instead. Besides, since you now can change party everywhere, this is pretty much standard. It goes against the habits of old players, but that's what came out of our discussions regarding the balance and adding new layers of difficulty, like money, MP, items and such. Plus, keeps the game interesting, since most character will end up receiving attention and a type of roles were kind of introduced. In some fights a magic oriented party might be more useful. Therefore, using Barret and Cid would be a crappy idea. Aeris, Red and Vincent would be the best choices. Or maybe speed is more relevant. It depends. And the range of possibilities and strategies that are possible because of the changes add a lot to the gameplay and replay value of the mod.

My advice here is: learn first to unlearn what you know about the original FF7. Then all will be easier. Players tend to have constant approaches to the game, so mods always make things interesting.

PS: try to kill the flames first. They'll ran out of MP eventually, I assume. Keep on the defense until then.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-13 14:09:21
Do you mean where the optional miniboss is right before the screen with Dyne?  Yeah there was a Save point there.

I think i just missed Morph because I'm a dumbass. I remember searching the garden but I didn't notice it. Well then I am probably screwed.  The earliest you can get back into Midgar is middle of Disc 2.  I just hope the game isn't impossible without it....

I will miss all those Ethers...

Alright, that's a relief. I guess the Morph Materia is trickier to see because the colour of it blends into the dirt now. You don't need it to win, it was just another option besides Steal.

EDIT 2:

Okay, I lied, I went and did most of the GI Cave but now I'm stuck on Gi Nattak. I cannot for the life of me figure out the solution to this puzzle since it has to be a puzzle boss, right? The little things heal him for about 5K with their Demi3 and obviously there is no way I can deal with that kind of recovery.  So there has to be a trick to beating him that I'm just not seeing.

EDIT 3:

So was the answer "just outlast them"? Because that's what I ended up doing. Once they expended all their MP they couldn't do crap anymore and then it was a relatively simple matter of killing the main boss with plain old physical attacks.

No real trick, it's just best to deal with the Flames first because they'll heal any damage done to Nattak; best thing to do is go with a quick mini-nuke strategy. Let your character's ATB gauges fill and then wait for the remaining Flame (the other one is usually sent away by Take Over on Nattak's first turn) to cast Demi3 on itself; then hit it with a bunch of high-powered spells like Summons or Limit Breaks before it's turn comes around again. The Demi3 heal is based on current HP so even if the Flame doesn't die, it won't be able to heal itself enough to cover the damage you dealt (assuming it doesn't die outright) and you can finish it off on the next turn. When the second Flame returns, it's rinse and repeat; once both flames are gone, Nattak himself isn't too tanky with his HP but he can cast Reflect when his HP has fallen far enough. I've got a vid of the strategy in action here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThXJGQUtlJo

But because this is a fairly early story-boss fight, to prevent people getting stuck there's the fail-safe of MP. Demi3 costs a tonne to cast and either Flame can only cast roughly the same number of times as the original Flames could cast Fire2. Once their MP is fried, it's a relatively simple fight as you said.

Loseless has a good suggestion there; if MP is a problem, then consider swapping party members in and out to make use of their fresh MP. Some characters are better suited to certain roles than others but anyone can make do as a caster in a pinch. I think the best way to restore MP is with Tents or Inns, preserving Ethers for boss fights.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-13 14:17:28
I guess I'm just a creature of habit. I never use my entire party in any RPG I've ever played. I concentrate on my main three/four and that's it. Equipping an entire party is way too expensive in a normal game, let alone a mod like this where I'm barely scraping by in terms of Gil.  Plus I'd have to keep swapping my Materia  around and I don't want to do that. I'm just lazy like that I guess.

I really don't need Ethers as much as I used to anyway. As you said, Tents/Inns work just fine  when grinding out in the field or during a dungeon and I save my Ethers for boss fights. I haven't even needed them for that the last couple of boss fights. Plus it does seem like MP has really become more abundant with  the past few levels so I haven't been running out of it nearly as fast as I was earlier.

Anyway, I think I'll stop for tonight for real now. At Mt. Nibel, with Vincent replacing Aerith in my main party. Died to that big dragon. It totally dominated me. I suspect if I had been at full health I might have fared better but we wee a couple hundred HP down from the last fight and it opened up with a couple flame breath things and wiped out my party. Well, I managed to come back from that but I was just delaying the inevitable. It used some other move and killed all three of my characters at once. I didn't ant to beat it, just Steal whatever it had. Sadly Steal is not that reliable and I noitce that my hardest random encounters are those I waste time trying to Steal.  i have the MP for it now so perhaps it's time I just start opening every fight, Random Encounter or no, with Barrier/MBarrier.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-10-13 18:32:17
The random encounters can be tough early on sometimes, but they can be dealt  with summons, tier 2 magic + all (ESPECIALLY GRAVITY: Cast Demi 2+All, then finish with another spell), or with enemy skills when you start to acquire them later.  Also remember that you have a great chance of putting things to sleep, mini, or confused status. But I finding myself running away a lot too, so there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I would highly suggest go picking up white wind from Junon area, as that can be useful for later bosses, otherwise Cure+All will be your best friend.  Take advantage of inns when farming for exp and gil near a city, rather than using tents early on.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-14 12:29:48
Well I am right before the Temple of the Ancients. Calling it a night now.

I spent most of this night Gil grinding. I was doing as suggested and getting White Wind and I stumbled upon this area in Mythril Mine where there's like steps or something leading up to a chest with a Tent. It's the area right off the Marsh entrance. Anyway, in there, you only get groups of enemies that give you about 700-900 Gil per battle. These are also weaksauce enemies which meant I could slaughter them en masse with just physical attacks and never worry about dying. I grinded up to 60,000 Gil and right now I foresee no money woes in the nearby future.

For optional things, I beat the Powersoul Keeper and the Wutai sidequest. Neither were too hard once i was properly prepared, got Vincent casting Quake2 and had Earth-Elemental on Cloud's weapon and together they destroyed Mr. Spider. (although the first fight my game froze when it trid to do the last Charge, the one that gives it Berserk) Same for the Pagoda bosses, once I had Yuffie immune to Frog and Silence it was a cakewalk. Is she only supposed to get Bloodfest then or was that just a happy coincidence? Because Bloodfest was how I kicked the Pagoda's ass in another mod.

Speaking of Limits though, is it unique to this mod or does Cloud always have such ridiculously slow Limit Learn Rate or whatever you want to call it? He was obviously in my party long before Yuffie and got off several LBs before her yet she still got to Level 2 before him.

Is it possible to beat the Battle Square when Dio has you try it? Because I tried, I really did! But I can only get up to Battle #5 and then the mass of enemies just swarm me. Even with Barrier and MBarrier on the cumulative damage of 200 from one and 200 from another and another and another is too much. I tried some crowd control with Trine but I am so busy just trying to live that I can't focus on offense. I just gave up after losing abut ten times in a row since I was sinking Ethers and Hi Potions into it when I didn't need to.

Also did anyone complete the Battle Square when Dio makes you do it? Because I've spent over an hour at it and no luck. I've come close several times but it's not all about skill and preparation, it's the luck of the damn roulette thing. For example, I just lost on Round 2 because I got Damage X30. What the hell. Overall it was a vanity project of mine, to prove how strong I am and make it to the end. But it's a stupid, pointless waste of items and time and I should have given up a long time ago.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-14 14:42:46
It's odd that you're getting these random freezes; do you have other mods installed?

In the default game, Cloud's required kills were a bit higher probably to compensate for him being in the party longer while later characters have quite low requirements by comparison. There's no special trigger for limits either, so you learned Bloodfest through happy coincidence.

Battle Square is a super-tough thing to balance because it dumps enemies in there with a 25%+ HP upgrade (and I think the stats get buffed too); on top of that, the character fights alone and they get hit with handicaps. I think I'll set some time aside and tackle it properly, re-assigning enemy formations for each of the three tiers to make it a bit more balanced (there's bound to be 'kill' groups in there somewhere, but at least there's no Red Pyramids like in another mod that will remain nameless ._.). I might be able to put some AI in there to counter-act the automatic stat buff that enemies get too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-14 15:02:32
I have a few other mods installed.  I mentioned before trying to add Graphical Mods with Bootleg? Well the battle menu/interface being different seems like it might be the most pertinent difference.  Otherwise I have FF7Music and some stuff to make the Fields look nicer. Essentially, everything that wasn't overwirten by the NT Installer.

Yeah, the Battle Square is a nightmare of randomness. For example, it seems like every 2 fights of groups you get one solo monster. I had about six solid attempts where the first solo monster I fought was this plant thing that I think is a new monster of yours? I ran into it at Gungaga the other day. Well Demi 2 takes care of its first couple forms easily enough but the last part is a buttercup and kept killing poor Cloud.

On other runs with a better lineup of monsters, such as Boxer, I've come close to winning the Square. I've made it to the second-to-last fight a couple times now I gave up on physical offense and keep Cloud in the back row. I just have him spam Enemy Skills and that does the trick most of the time. I also have Odin there to give me a little respite in the later group fights should I make it there. He helped clear the path in the third-to-last fight in my last attempt. I regret wasting him though because the next round I fought these snake things which must use Stop or something when they attack because Cloud got swarmed by them and couldn't use the damned Hi Potion i had ready for him.

My pigheadedness and stubbornness made me continue to try and win when I knew I should have given up. I was just so close those few times ya know so I figured I had a chance at winning. Do you get a prize for completing Dio's Battle Square?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-14 15:56:39
The prize isn't great; I think it's the same as before, a Protect Vest (which can be bought at Rocket Town) and a Chocofeather (which is bought at Wutai). I'll change the prize too, make it something worthwhile or maybe a roulette of equipment that's not available yet.

The plant thing has always been in Gongaga, but it's likely too much to handle for a solo character at that level. Boxer too, because it has an eject attack when it explodes. I'll be looking to change those formations out, and others, for something else.

Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-14 16:22:26
Yep, I have plenty of Protect Vests already. The monster in the Nibelheim Mansion on the pendulum dropped them as well as Talismans. Also I stole one off of this big robot looking thing I found near Cosmo Canyon.

And Boxer wasn't too much trouble. One time it did Eject Cloud but I've beaten it several times with 3 Bio2's. Still, simply having an Eject move in a place like Battle Square is pretty cheap.

Well if that's all there is, I am glad i went ahead and decided to save my Hi Potions and Ethers. What about for later though? Are the rewards in the Battle Square still the same? This is far, far off in the future of course but just wondering should I ever make it to the end of the game if I'll want to return to Gold Saucer and start trying to get said rewards.

If all goes well though I hope to be at the end of Disk 1 by the next time I post. :) Now it's time for sleep though. Everyone is at Level 31, I have the best equipment and Materia i can find or buy and I finally am not stressing about running out of Gil.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-14 17:20:40
Battle Square's top prize is a roulette drop of four different item packs; the prizes below it are lackluster, though; I'll probably change them up while I'm at it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-15 14:02:12
Oh man...this has been the night (and morning) of grueling repeating boss fights.

Dual Devils Gates? You monster! I was kinda confused at first since when i killed one the other started wrecking me. i thought "maybe I need to kill them both around the same time?" Then I got a brain and realized I just had to do away with the second DG's buffs.

And then Jenova WAR... It was insultingly easy the final time I beat her considering how many failures I had going into it. The trick was:
1. Actually read her Sense data and see she's weak to Earth.
2. NEVER LET BARRIER FADE.

As long as Barrier is up her attack spam does nothing. Let it down though and there's no hope of recovery.

That was pretty awesome though with the two guys from back outside Shinra Manor showing up. Will I be seeing them again? Although I must confess, as cool as it was at first, it got annoying when I couldn't use Tirfa's or Yuffie's Limits because it registered my friends as opponents and attacked them as well....

But that was a nice sort of story change with fighting Sephiroth first and then those guys showing up against Jenova. Will there be more things like that?

Also does Aerith being alive have any story repercussions or sidequests or anything? And how about weapons for her? The Icicle Shop didn't sell any obviously.

Finally, I have to say this - YOU ARE THE BEST. Gil Plus? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! I was just thinking earlier that "with the mod making money so hard to come by, I really wish FFVII had something like FFX's Gillionaire." And then i find Gil Plus in the Temple of the Ancients. So awesome.

Anyway, it's been an eventful night. I blame Tifa for why Jenova WAR took me so long. I anted my preferred party of Cloud/Aerith/Yuffie and then Tifa had to boob in. Ah well... Everyone is about Level 39, Yuffie just got Doom of the Living thanks to the Jenova WAR boss fight and I have tons and tons of money and I can easily make more. Thinks are looking good.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-15 14:58:22
The DGs used to be a case of 'rush one down then rush the other one' but I put the Wall Augur death counter in there to turn things on their head a little. If the player doesn't have Dispel, then it's a case of deciding whether to rush one down and deal with a tougher DG or fight both and then kill them at roughly the same time.

The two back-up fighters are actually part of a mechanic with Jenova WAR's attacks (originally they couldn't be targeted). The boss has an irregular counter-attack called Cell Smash which only targets the two 'allies' behind you. If they die, though, then Cell Smash starts to target your party instead which can get a bit tricky as you're already dealing with two attacks per turn. This makes multi-target spells, Berserk, and certain Limits (Tifa's in particular) risky to use because those two will soak up the damage.

Story-wise, you'd be surprised at how little was needed in the way of editing for Aeris. For the most part only a few lines needed to be re-worded here and there and they're very close to what they originally were. There was one scene that got a more major revision, though, and that was the one in Bugehagen's Observatory just before the return to Forgotten City to use the Ancient Key. In the original game, they basically decide to try and figure out what Aeris was doing but this creates a problem in this mod because she's, well, there. But then I remembered she had these two lines during Cloud's 'dream' just after the Temple segment:
Code: [Select]
{AERIS}
“The secret is just up here.”
{AERIS}
“At least it should be.
…I feel it.
It feels like I'm being led by something.”

That implies to me that she wasn't sure herself what her plan was, so I played that angle and it more or less solved the problem. As for weapons, she doesn't have any extra but Jenova WAR should have dropped the Fairytale which should cover it. Her only other weapons at that level are the Wizard Staff (re-specced for high level), Princess Guard, and Guard Stick (triple AP).

I think you're the first person who saw the Gil Plus and thought it was a good thing. Most people grumbled about it.

Good to hear it's going well, though; I was Lv.41 when I finished up Disc 2 so you should be alright for levels.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-15 15:16:10
Yeah I got the Fairy Tale. Was the Princess Guard still in the Temple of the Ancients? If so, I missed it.  I couldn't remember what rooms in the clock i had checked or not and eventually I just said screw it and moved on.

And that's pretty awesome you put that much thought into the new Aeris dialogue.  The gameplay is already providing a pretty different experience for me and any story modifications are welcome as well. I like FFVII's plot quite a bit but I just appreciate little surprises here and there when something isn't quite how I thought it would be. Like fighting "Sephiroth" for example.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-15 15:58:26
The Princess Guard isn't in the Temple anymore; actually, both it and the other ultimate weapons haven't been placed yet. I'm still working on the side-content that'll unlock them. So you've not missed anything that I can remember.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-16 14:35:40
On Disk 2 with Highwind and Cloud back, before Diamond Weapon and all that. Thinking about doing some Chocobo Breeding. You know, everyone's favorite tedious BS. Anyway, are the rewards still the same? Is KOTR still in that one cave only accessible by Gold Chocobo? I seem to recall thee was another one too....

Also for the life of me I cannot defeat that Cactuar in the Highwind. First time I got the highwind, I went into that other room and just tried to talk to the one guy and now I was in a fight and got horrifically stomped. Now I'm a little over Level 41 but I still can't beat it. it Ejects me from battle wheN i get it to what I assume is the final form. Am I just not ready to beat it yet?

Speaking of irritations, I visited the sunken Shinra ship and the Turks there were annoying. Died so many times. Why? Not because they were hard but because I wanted to Steal from them and it just wasn't happening. I could have killed them ten times over but I died ten times over because I wasted so much time trying to Steal. Still, in the end, I won and got both the Tough Ring and Champion Belt. Worth it.

So what Ultimate Weapons and Level 4 Limit Breaks are still in the game? I mean, I found that Great Gospel was no longer with the Mythril guy. Does "Ultra Weapon" still have ultima Weapon?

Oh and that reminds me! What was up with the super-easy Tseng fight? That was kind of random. I mean it wasn't at all what I expected, I was dreading the Rude fight there because another mod I played of FFVII made that boss fight a nightmare. But instead Tseng is there and then he's not since I one shotted him.

Other than the Turks though, this night was fairly uneventful in terms of bosses. I failed the Train time limit once but I'm used to failing once in every challenge or boss by now. First attempts are to look for weaknesses and second attempts are the actual real runs for success.

no wait, I'm forgetting something! That boss down before the submarine, the weird mech that Reno sicks on you, that fight was BS. Did you make the Arms invincible? Because I'll tell you what, that fight is entirely random and luck-based. I died so many times because sometimes it would open the fight with grabbing one or two characters almost immediately. Then on my successful run it didn't grab anyone until it was almost dead. I realize a lot of fights in games are based on luck since enemy AI may make them spam one move or never do that move at all but this was really frustrating. It was just several hours ago so I kinda forgot about how annoyed I was back then.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-16 14:55:49
Right, so a few things here:

First off, the Gold Chocobo is only for accessing the KOTR cave on the Round Island. It's also great for winning races with minimal effort.

The Cactuar fight isn't supposed to be there, I was using it as a debug fight to test out his new AI. It was supposed to be removed before release, so I'll get that done now. It's the boss fight for the Purple Materia cave.

Steal rates depend on level, so the higher the enemy level the harder it becomes to Steal/Manipulate.

Ultimate Weapons aren't in yet, but they've lost their damage formula effects in any case in favour of a heavy stat boost to Dexterity and Luck (with some having a Magic boost instead of Dex or Luck). The Lv.4 Limits are won from sidequest bosses once they're unlocked, with one per character (Cait Sith has one too, but it's for a key item that helps unlock an Extra Battle boss). Ultra Weapon drops an item also used for an Extra Battle boss.

The Rocket Town enemies were temporarily specced to low HP while I tested out a problem in the rocket (a crash happened on a ladder so I needed to investigate it) but I forgot to set their HP back to the original values before release. It was fixed in a recent patch, along with some other problems; I'd recommend downloading and installing them (they work in the same way as the main installer, and patch right over the top of the current installation). To be honest, the Tseng fight is generally easy anyway; I was considering making a different model based on Vincent's and expanding the move-set a little.

I'll have a look at Carry Armor again; I've an idea for a small tweak that'll make Arm Grab less dangerous.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-16 15:07:57
So wait, is Steal Rate determined by Character Level vs. Enemy Level? Reno for example was Level 50 I think while Yuffie might have only been Level 40 at the time. But if it is just determined by the boss' level and nothing else, then a Level 99 Boss would be nigh-impossible to steal from wouldn't it?

How do I unlock the sidequests/Extra Bosses? Does it just happen once you get to a certain point?

And "Purple Materia cave"?

I honestly haven't done extra stuff in FFVII for....strawberries, almost a decade. Even the I never did everything. Plus I wasn't that good at the time to be honest. So there's a lot of "original game" content stuff I'm clueless about in addition to all the stuff you've added. Also I'll be sure to download that patch right now.

Thanks for your reply.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-16 15:49:25
The steal/manipulation rate is character level vs. enemy level. However, if you have a Sneak Glove or Hypnocrown equipped then the odds are always quite good, regardless of level. Thing is, the Sneakglove isn't available until you can return to Wall Market (earliest this can be done is just after Diamond Weapon is defeated, by talking to the guy at the locked Sector 5 door inside Midgar and then heading to Bone Village to dig up the access key; look for Normal Treasure and it should be on the upper level, close to the steam. There should be maps online pinpointing the location to dig in).

The Extra Battle in Gold Saucer's Battle Square and other end-game sidequests all unlock on Disc 3 when you reach the bottom of the Crater for the first time. Cloud will get a phone-call from the Highwind confirming it.

There are four Materia caves dotted around the world, and each holds a different colour of Materia. The Blue Materia Cave (Quadra Magic) is near Mideel and can be accessed with any special Chocobo (or without, using the Highwind landing glitch). The Purple Materia Cave is near the entrance to Mt. Corel (Costa Del Sol side), on the small patch of desert across the river; this has the Mega-All Materia inside (I think it needs a Green/Black/Gold to access). The Yellow Materia Cave (Mime) is on the Wutai continent and definitely needs a Green or higher to access. And finally, the Red Materia Cave has KOTR inside and requires a Gold Chocobo; that's on an unmarked island in the top right of the ocean.

Generally speaking, the Blue Chocobo is the most worthless of the specials. There's no Cave that can be accessed that a Green couldn't get to, and in races they're slowed down on two sections of track that a Green/Black/Gold can run through without slow-down (giving them a big advantage over the other racers).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-17 23:12:52
Okay man I'd like to report my first real problem with the game. It's not a game breaker since it only happens during the optional Ultra Weapon fight but it is the only consistent "error" I've had. I've had several in field glitches and maybe two battle freezes but this is something new and has happened to me about ten times.

I was hoping it was NT conflicting with my Bootleg so I completely uninstalled FFVII and deleted the Registry Keys. Did a fresh install of FF7PC98 with the October 15 patch.  Still got the freeze. I figured it had to be somethign to do with the mod or my computer and not Bootleg because I've had weird "camera freakouts" in battles before but this is something new.

What happens is, in the final fight with Ultra Weapon at Cosmo Canyon on Disk 3, nothing happens. It doesn't freeze, it just....I'm not sure how to describe it. It's like the game is trying to load a move of his and cannot. On occasion the camera zoomed in on him like he was trying to do a move but more often than not he's just hanging there and nothing is happening. I can still input commands if my turn is up but othrwise, as soon as I put in said command, nothing more happens. Music plays, everyone stands around or floats around in UW's case, and that's it.

I'm not sure if this is something completely unique to my comp. I just know I've been playing the game 60 hours and in spite of various odd difficulties, nothing like this has happened. I don't know if you or someone else can test itout or give me advice on what might be wrong with my computer that is causing this.

I might just forgo the fight entirely.  I'll certainly go on and do other things in the meantime.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-10-18 01:15:54
Went to go check it out after reading your comment, I can confirm  8-) Kinda reminds me of Cloud running in place at a certain reactor =P

looks like the A.I locks up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZqTuXQg__I&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-18 03:00:33
Yeah, that's caused when an attack doesn't have a valid ID it just kind of soft-locks the game. Usually happens if an attack is changed and the removed Attack ID is still in the enemy AI.

So had a look, and turns out there's a 'draft' script I left lying around in that particular form of Ulty's counter-attack script when I was building it into his main script to extend his attack-pool a bit for the final encounter (to avoid it clashing with his regular HP calculating stuff). Silly mistake on my part, just forgot to delete it when I was done. I'll fix it up and update the scene.bin patch.

Edit: That's the scene hotfix patch up.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-18 12:46:51
Thanks for fixing that so quickly. The fight itself was short and sweet.

So I made it to the bottom of Northern Crater and got the phone call you mentioned. But while I'm content to wait to unlock all the Extra Bosses, since it appears it will take a LOT of Item farming and probably level grinding too so I can beat them, I wanted to try out the little sidquests. But how do you trigger them? I went to the Forgotten City as the dude on the Highwind bridge said and nothing happened. I explore every inch of it I'm pretty sure. I figured whatever it was would be happening would be in the area where Aeris "died" but no luck.

In any event, when that's all done, I suspect it will be a few days for me to find all these items and stuff. I'm sure they can be Morphed or Stolen but still... THREE HypnoCrowns? I have 1. And some of the other things sound pretty tricky as well.

The two I was able to unlock right now are the Gil Turtle and...uh, the one after it. I forget its name. had 41,000 HP. Aerith killed it with 4 rounds of Comet2. I was feeling so big and strong. TheN Gil Turtle unleashed KOTR on me. THE fern. Can Max HP exceed 9999 for the party? I doubt it. I guess you'd need to start the fight with something to make you invincible?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-18 13:00:53
The Lv. 4 Limit sidequests require that the character be in your party (or in Cloud, Tifa, and Cid's case that they be the party leader; this is changed from the Highwind's Operation room), so for Aeris' one in the Forgotten City she needs to be in the party (it's down on the altar, should be an NPC waiting there).

The items are mostly held by stronger enemies, but I've got a list I need to upload which details where everything in the game can be found (but it only shows one place, there's definitely other places to get some of them).

Gil Turtle's mechanic is that he 'saves up' MP until he can use KOTR but you can prevent this by damaging his MP (but he has a few MP Draining attacks, so watch for those). Or did Gil open with KOTR? It's on Materia Keeper's AI (which can sometimes open with Trine) and I can't remember if I disabled that or not (it's a rare opening in any case, but it shouldn't happen at all so if he did open with KOTR then I'll look into getting that fixed). The guy after him, Variablis, is the one that can use Barrier Shift to change his elemental weakness; but I think in my excitement at actually getting this AI to work I clean forgot about non-elemental magic like Comet...ah well.

Edit: Here's the spreadsheet I mentioned, could be considered a WIP but it's pretty much complete: http://www.mediafire.com/view/93dad2bidq74xop/FF7_-_New_Threat_Mod_[v1.2]-_Change_Log.xlt
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-18 13:22:43
Is the NPC actually supposed to be on the "Walter Altar" screen? Where you jump to? Because there's no one there for me...

Aerith has never left my party. I actually took her out and put her back in with PHS. ADoes she have to be able to use Great Gospel right now? I kinda doubt it but I'm at a loss for what could be the issue.

And yeah, first thing GT did was use KOTR on my party. I was sizing it up, preparing to use Sense, and then he kills me.

I'm gonna try uninstalling Bootleg and running just the NT Installer. I don't know why it would be Bootleg causing this but I can't switch out Cloud witH Tifa or Cid at the Operations Room either. I'll report back when all is done.

EDIT:

Nope, even with just the original + NT it won't let me switch out Cloud and the NPC doesn't show up at the Altar.

Thank you for the spreadsheet.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-18 23:02:47
That's an odd one. Everything was triggering correctly in the test play; I'll investigate and see what's what. If LCP swings by he can hopefully let me know if he's experienced any problems as well.

Anyways, I'm going to load up the Disc 3 start save I kept and go through the Crater again. I'll update this post when I'm finished.

Edit: Finished the second test run, but everything triggered okay and Cloud could be swapped out of the PHS from the new NPC in the operations room. Not sure why these would be broken for you, and I've only got two theories on what might have happened:

1) Some random NPC in the game has been given a debug script that triggers all the sidequest event variables so I could test Special Battle; while it doesn't explain the problem with swapping Cloud out of PHS it's the most likely explanation. I checked all the NPCs I'd be most likely to give this command to, though (as in everyone in the Gold Saucer and on the Highwind) but no sign of anything.

2) Some Bootleg mod that alters the flevel/field in some way flipped variables that are used later in the NT game or has in some way overwritten/corrupted certain field screens, and/or these are being modified/are being reverted by something left-over from the Bootleg installation (I don't think this is very likely though).

I'm going to ask LCP (he's at that stage of the game) if this stuff is working or broken for his game. In the meantime, try triggering a different sidequest like the one in the Nibelheim Basement (that one triggers with Cloud as party leader; it activates in the same place that the old Zack flashback used to happen in the regular game; save your game first though, it's the toughest one). If that doesn't trigger either, then I'll make a special patch for your game that'll try using a different set of variable triggers for the sides; that should hopefully get those re-activated at least.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-19 00:03:30
Oh, I totally missed the second NPC in the Operations Room! I'm a dumbass. I can switch party leaders just fine now.

And the nibelheim sidequest triggered fine. I'm not doing it right now because I need to reinstall everything again (Bootleg's OST didn't install right) but I assume being teleported or whatever and running up to Zack is new. I certainly don't remember that in the original.

Still no luck with the NPC at the Walter Altar though. When I start up the game again later, I'll talk to the new NPCs in the GS and the Highwind. Do you think that might help?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-19 00:10:36
Ah, that's good; I couldn't for the life of me figure out what was happening with the Party Swap, I thought you meant Cloud was locked when forming the new party. Good that that's working.

Alright, so the other sidequest worked; that narrows it down. I'll analyse those Forgotten City fields and see what I can find.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-19 00:42:09
Alright, thanks a lot for everything man. It must have been hell to make this thing and then offering up support all the time as well... Your dedication is truly remarkable and I'm really glad I found this.

Out of curiosity though, I was looking at the list of NT Videos on YouTube (only the names, don't want to have any spoilers) and saw one mention of a Secret Boss and Ending. Do you get that by beating the Extra Bosses or all the sidequests or whatever?

And speaking of final bosses, what level would you recommend for actually trying to beat the game? I'm only at Level 60 right now so I don't intend to try it yet but I'm just curious if the final boss is actually super-powerful now or if he continues the tradition of being weaker than the superbosses.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-19 00:54:19
The 'secret ending' is triggered by having a particular item in your inventory when you beat Safer, which is dropped by the last boss in Extra Battle. These items will be converted into something very useful for the NG+ so if you collect more than one they'll come in handy for that (same thing with those oversoul shards).

As far as the end bosses go, they're not as strong as some of the Extra Battle/Materia Cave bosses but they're close; there's two things to watch for. First of all, the Jenova SYNTHESIS fight is quite different; it has two cronies in the battle that make things pretty awkward. Bizarro is also a three-party fight no matter what, so you'll need to have enough gear to keep everyone reasonably equipped to handle the strong attacks there. A save point was added before this fight, so Synthesis doesn't have to be re-fought if something goes wrong. One of your parties has to be two instead of three, however, even though you have enough for three full parties; I always try now and then to change that but it seems quite tough and Bizarro crashes when I force the game to have all nine.

Finally, Safer is more or less the same as ever but with his attacks changed up; he still follows a set pattern but the attacks are different. And as for that alternate final battle, well there's another save point so no worries.

I'm not sure when the earliest is that they can be beaten, but the better prepared you are the better. You could try tackling Jenova SYNTHESIS to get an idea of what strength they have as they're quite close together; but try to have enough decent equipment to cover eight of your party members for the Bizarro fight, that'd be the 'make or break' I reckon.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-10-19 01:20:02
Hey there, I too would advised facing the Final boss until you have good equipment, and copies of your favorite materia or at least powerful ones you can spread throughout the parties.  :mrgreen:

I went to the forgotten City after reaching the bottom of the northern cave, and I see the NPC there. She should be kneeling right where Aerith was at the disc one (where you fight Jenova). I have the steam version of FFVII, with no other mods than this one installed. It's also has all the updates!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-19 01:25:31
Hm... Well I dunno, I'll keep checking and maybe they'll turn up. Don't really know what else to do for that.

And anyway you look at it, I'm gonna need some days of grinding ahead of me. Gotta get these items for the EBs, probably should get at least two of every Element Materia to Level 3 for my main party, probably have everyone with Cure3 too, gotta level up Limits, and finally collect good equipment. For my main group I have Apocalypse on Cloud, Rising Sun on Yuffie and Guard Stick on Aerith. (Heh, I liked the "And nothing attacked you!" after I got Apocalypse. I totally was thinking there would be a boss fight there.)

The Northern Crater seems like a great place to gain mad AP very quickly though. I chose the...Left Up Path or whatever and ran into these three things that gave like 12,000 or 15.000 AP. Then when you add to the fact I had Triple AP weapons on...that was amazing. 

Wait, one more question though. Did you remove the Heaven's Cloud from the Gelnika? I didn't see it. I always liked giving that sword to Cloud because...well, I found it fitting. Plus, while Triple AP is amazing for grinding, I am sure there are better, stronger weapons around for everyone and I gotta find those as well.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-19 01:57:44
It won't turn up, unfortunately; the variable trigger isn't really handled by anything else. That's why I'm going to make a special patch for your specific game that uses a different variable; it's only called in two places, there and at Battle Square (but not for much longer, I'm going to make Game Moment 1998 the trigger to unlock Special Battle rather than those sidequests; there's a boss at the end of the Special Battle that I've yet to see anybody fight ;_;).

The Movers (and the Magic Pots which now eat either Ethers or Turbo Ethers instead of Elixirs, I forget which) are king for AP so I set them up for it. The end-game weapons are set up like this:
-) One Vit/Spr +50 weapon (Defensive)
-) One Mag +30 weapon
-) One Dex/Lck +50 weapon

There's a few exceptions to this. Instead of a +30 Magic weapon, Cid has a high-attack weapon that drains damage as HP instead while Tifa has that Godhand which has 255% accuracy. All the Defence weapons can be Morphed from the tough enemies in the Crater, but you can also have a shot at getting one of three of them (Cloud, Tifa, and Cid) by re-fighting the Disc 2 boss Asimov which is accessed by talking to the trooper in the Chocobo area of the Highwind (I don't think I've removed that debug Kaktuar fight from the Highwind technician next to him though, so careful not to talk to him just now!)

The Mag +30 weapons are a bit trickier to get; they're dropped by the Extra Battle bosses and it's a random drop. There's also the Escort Bangle and Minerva Band which have been boosted up a fair bit.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-19 09:40:15
Well if I can make it to that Special Battle I promise to fight it. I want to try and beat everything in this game.

And thank you for offering up that fix for Aerith's sidequest. There's no rush or anything either - as I said before, I got lots to do still.

EDIT:

Do the Training Bosses stop granting EXP after a while? I saw Hojo gave like 30,000 each fight so I wanted to grind with him but I just beat him and got nothing.

Also, your mod doesn't have Break 9999? I figured it did so I didn't select Break 9999 Limit in Bootleg. Only now my best attacks on Hojo only did 9999 instead of like, 13,000.  I mean if you would prefer me to keep the damage cap set, I can.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-19 14:19:15
The mod isn't specced for Break Damage Limit; things get a bit too loose when those kinds of numbers start flying around because of the way Defend, Sadness, etc. reduce damage by a % so the higher the values, the more potent these become. You can use it if you want, but there won't be many bosses capable of breaking the 9999 barrier outside of maybe a critical or a special damage formula.

And yeah, at Lv.70 and above enemies stop giving EXP. It's so there's room for developing the player party and having an arc of sorts for the NG+ campaign I'm planning to make.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-20 13:38:22
So things are coming along well in terms of the Extra Bosses. I found several of the items I needed to make them when I explored the other areas of the Northern Crater. I also got Beta and Bad Breath so that worked out real well. I now have Shield, Ultima, W-Summon and Contain.

Question though, is the White Materia part of Aerith's sidequest? I figured it would be. I have all the othr items I need for that boss except the WM.

But now I have these awesome new Materias I think I need to head back into the NC to AP grind some more. I have tons of Mastered Restores now for everyone in my party plus a few Mastered Revives because Phoenix Downs just don't cut it in boss fights anymore.

In terms of items, I got a few extras of Cloud's and Tifa's weapons from Morphing. I had the Ragnarok and God's Hand already from re-figthing Asimov but I got a few extra from...Uh, I think a Mover and something else. In terms of new weapons, I got one for Red, Cait, Cid and Yuffie. So that was nice, especially for Yuffie.

What weapons aren't actually in the game yet?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-20 14:35:07
Sounds like you're cleaning house. The only weapons not in the game yet are each character's ultimate weapons. I also need to make the Umbrella available somewhere on Disc 3; I put it back in Speed Square's Disc 1 but a lot of players will have missed it because there was nowhere to get it until now. It'll probably go to a Crater enemy.

And yeah, the WM is part of Aeris' side-quest. I'll get that patch fixed up for you today; I was making some others fixes as well.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-20 18:36:26
I got a few more ES bosses down after managing to find out where I could get Dragon Scales and Right arms. Also, in regards to the Bomb King fight, was Odin the only way to deal with the Grenades? or Bomb Vassals or whatever they were called? Because I tried everything else but they ALWAYS self-destructed when they died, even if they were asleep or whatever else.

Also, since Aerith's sidequest didn't trigger because of some bug or glitch or whatever, does that mean some of the others won't happen either? Because I'm trying to find Barret's and Yuffie's and nothing is happening. I looked online at a video and I think Barret's is supposed to be on the ruined Corel Reactor screen? The lower part? But nothing. And I went to Yuffie's dad's house (the place right before the Pagoda, right?) and I didn't see anything there either....
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-20 19:10:23
No, the AI that was supposed to disable the Bombs when the main guy died was only affecting one of the Bombs and not all of them. I've got it fixed, but the patch isn't up yet because there's a bunch of other things that were needing re-worked.

Alright, so all the sidequests use variables from a certain memory bank but Cloud's one is 'unique' because it uses the original ones normally used to trigger and then lock the Zack flashback that used to play there. Any debug routine testing Special Battle would have activated every sidequest variable, including these ones, to unlock Special Battle for testing in older builds so I don't think that's what caused it; I did a sweep of the mod using Makou's search functions as well but couldn't find any alternate triggers for those variables (although I'm still not ruling it out). And as far as I know, it's a problem isolated to your game; LCP told me that his were triggering fine.

I'm starting to think that these banks might have been used by another mod at some point. Save files retain variable data so if they were flipped by a mod and the game was then saved, they'll remain flipped even if the mod is uninstalled (for instance, NT save files could cause havoc with other Gameplay mods if they use any of the same unused variable addresses and vise-versa). But I'm just guessing. If I can get the remaining fixes finished tonight, I'll put that special patch together that uses different variables and hopefully those'll be 'clean'.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-20 19:28:15
Well thanks for putting in the effort to help me out.  I never thought anything like this would happen. Here's hoping that the patch will fix whatever it is I ferned up.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-21 03:18:17
New patches are up, but I'll make the special flevel patch we discussed and send you the link via PM.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-21 15:30:09
A couple questions:

1. What is the point of Mime? The fight for it was fairly easy but it doesn't do anything...

2. Is Shield still supposed to nullify physical damage? It made the Zack fight a breeze.

By far the hardest optional boss fight so far for me was the one guarding the Quadra Magic. I died so many tims to that thing... It took  a lot of AP grinding with Shield and Revive and Contain for me to stand a chance. That and all the Turbo Ethers I've accumulated thanks to the Magic Pots.

EDIT:

Is Mega Flare bugged? Whenever Zack used it on Cloud, it always missed. Maybe I'm just over-leveled, if that has anything to do with it? Cloud is Level 71.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-10-21 16:23:34
Quadra magic: You're talking about Vorpar, Javy, Dones? You're supposed to cast regen on the two crewman.
It's possible that megaflare has a shout element attached to it, did you have some kind of equipment to protect against shout :P, just a possibility  :roll:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-21 17:13:34
Uh...I don't think so. I had Cloud loaded up with Strength-increasing equipment. Gigas Armlet and Champion Belt. Oh and Ragnarok for his weapon.

As for using Regen on the crewmembers...I had no idea about that. It never crossed my mind. lol
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-21 20:33:29
Yeah, the Bahamut summons are Shout-element and because they technically have a status ailment (they have a Debarrier effect) it means the attack will miss instead of dealing 0. Shield is likely what's protecting you there for that; and yeah it nullifies physical elements and drains magical ones.

Mime definitely seems to be kaput; I'll fix that up (I was trying to make it single-level like Underwater Materia so I could distribute more later on as prizes; I forgot to actually check on it). As for the Quadra boss, the two crewmen mention needing a Regen at the start (or they should do, in any case) and casting it on them has them mutiny, you might say. I'll need to shore up the Cave bosses though, they've not really excelled in any version of the mod so it's time they were all fired. I'll leave them until v1.3 though which is a little way away (aiming for Christmas :I).

Now hiring: bosses.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-10-22 05:23:52
Just thought I'd more 'officially' post on my thoughts on the mod so far, I'm just about to get to WinWaker Cosmo Canyon.

+ Charming little in-jokes, like the battery in Midgar and chest in Corel.
+ Extra boss battles; added in liberally, but sensibly.
+ AI/Balance/skin changes to existing bosses. The "Feel" of each original fight is still there, but with new challenges.
+ X-ATM Scorpion. Makes me smile every time.
+ Boss Balance, damn near perfect. Challenging, but not gimmicky like a lot of pure difficulty mods.
+ Dirty Bombs. :P

- Battle Arena version 1 is very unforgiving; requires consumables or really good luck. (EDIT: I have something worked out now which works quite well, requred the Wall ring from the speed square though, 8th battle is still hard though.)
- Learning Big Guard is a bit strange, when you manipulate something and use it it targets the whole party, but only hits one random person, made it tricky to learn.
- Morph at the start of the game didn't seem to be too useful, usually did about 3-4 damage, for average items (At least what I tried it on.) Maybe some initial equips or early weapons with 50-100% morph damage to help out?
- Frog Song MP usage; my way of cheesing my way through the entire battle arena is ruined. Curse you, making me use my brain and stuff. (I'm kidding, it's good, keep it like it is, haha.)

Should be continuing on the weekend, I've been told that Gi Nattak should be an enjoyable experience. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-22 15:18:14
Cheers, Potato; I've been keeping notes based on what I've seen in your Twitch highlights as well. Seems those Dirty Bombs are a tad popular :I

But now I must officially respond to your official feedback D:

Battle Square's the current priority; I'm adding the AI in today, after I get a special field fix done for Nikkolas. The patch will just be 700KB again when it's done, as only the scene.bin needs edited.

Morph is tough to get going because I think the only way to raise it's damage to 100% is through the Conformer's weapon effect (or through an .exe edit maybe) which is a tad stronger than the standard ones. Best use of it I can think of is setting up in an area and spamming Demi+All on a big group (say, five Search Crowns on Mt. Corel) and then picking them off with Morph if their HP falls far enough. Bit slow, but that'd guarantee five Ethers- I mean, 4000+ gil. Some bosses also have a great item to Morph into, like Motorball can be Morphed into a Fire Armlet; I might extend this to more bosses, some don't have a Morph thing right now.

I'll have a look at Big Guard; I likely tried to make it single-target and messed it up somehow.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-22 16:44:30
So Sega has been the coolest guy ever and helped me and now I just have a quick question since I'm back on track on making and beating all the extra bosses.

Where is the Red Crystal? Is it an item I get from one of the sidequests?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-22 17:09:46
That's a relief it's working now, I guess the variables did get flipped at some point.

The Red Crystal is dropped by a new boss accessed through the Kalm Traveller; instead of Master Materia, he now gives you a one-time boss fight that'll give a potent Enemy Skill at the end:
-) Desert Rose: Dragon Force
-) Earth Harp: Shadow Flare (can be used by others)
-) Guidebook: Pandora's Box

These fights do have a Game Over if you lose, so save before going in. The Earth Harp boss drops a Red Crystal though that's used to unlock an Extra Battle boss (Tyrant, I think). I also recommend taking lots of different types of Greens in for the Desert Rose boss; Chocobos react coldly to people who don't look like they'll give them any Greens.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-22 17:18:13
Wait, do I still need to beat Emerald to get the Earth Harp? That...could be trouble. Does he still have 1,000,000 HP?  If that's so i won't be fighting Tyrant any time soon. I still haven't been able to beat the Mammon Machine to get KOTR. (awsome Chrono Trigger reference!) I got it to the part where it summons the little helpers but I have no idea how far I was away from winning. I managed to kill one of them before MM used that combo on my party (Antipode I think and then the other two) and no one had Shield up so we died.

But yeah, I already got Shadow Flare from Ultra Weapon. He uses it on whoever kills him so I had the ES Materia on Cloud and made sure to win with him.

The only EB Bosses I have left are the one I need the White Materia for, Tyrant and the last one. ????? or whatever.

Thanks for the tips on the Greens.

EDIT:

Wait, can you not use the White Materia? You just have to trade it in for the boss?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-22 20:09:40
Emerald and Ruby have much less HP in this mod, essentially because those two were specced originally to (presumably) handle Ultimate Weapons and KOTR. As these aren't really as dangerous as they used to be, these bosses had to be down-tuned a bit. In terms of stat progression, they're behind the Kalm Traveller bosses.

Emerald/Carmine: 230,000HP
Ruby/Viridian: 177,000HP

Some other tweaks in there too, like Ruby not having Ultima anymore. The KOTR boss is stat-wise the toughest in the mod but his AI has a loophole (due to my inexperience when I was scripting it) where it's possible to avoid him summoning the adds and it's maybe also possible to skip Mammon Machine too but not sure. One thing to note there is that using Limit Breaks accelerates the rate at which the Mammon Machine charges so it might be an idea to avoid using anything except the strongest ones like Omnislash (or maybe then, perhaps not at all). It is a race against time though, so you might need to come back when you're beefed up a bit (although there's always Slots :p)

And the White Materia is a key item that's only used for making a new boss, same with the Dark Matter. Normally I'd make them items but at the time I wanted to experiment with making new Key Items and how to make them appear in the menu.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-10-23 00:16:04
Oh, there was something else I was going to ask too, there's a few items I've picked up which don't seem to be use-able, the Cactuar Gun and the Syncher are the ones I can remember, I'm not sure if I'm missing anything, but they don't appear to work with either Item or Throw.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-23 01:30:55
Oh, you're right. I must have tampered with them when I was putting the new items in; I've added it to the next scene.bin patch I'm working on.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-23 08:30:27
EDIT:

Okay, I was worried something got screwed up with Vincent's sidequest but I forgot the trigger the "second event" with Lucrecia you have to fight 10 random battles. So all is good and I have all Oversoul Shards now.

EDIT 2:

Okay, a new weird thing is happening. I can't make Tyrant.

It says I need 1 Red Crystal, 3 Megalixirs and 1 Behemoth Horn. I have the Red Crystal from the super-Movers or whatever they were called, I have 11 Megalixirs from all across the game and I have 1 Behemoth Horn from Morphing the Behemoth King in North Crater. (or King Behemoth, whichever it was named)

Is the Red Crystal supposed to be an item or Key Item? It's only an item for me. Maybe I'll try to get an extra Behemoth Horn.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-23 14:28:02
Yeah, I messed up. I reduced the item requirements for most of the monsters, but that particular one slipped the net. The text says 1x Behemoth Horn but the game is still checking for 3. It'll be fixed for the next patch.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-23 17:37:48
Ohhhh yeah! Nemesis is toast! All that is left for optional bosses (that I know of) are:
Tyrant
Kalm Traveler boss for the Desert Rose
Mammon Machine

Didn't you say there was a special boss you haven't seen anyone face? Where is he/she? Let me at 'em!

Honestly I probably fought Nemmy in the dumbest way. The only person doing any real damage was Aerith with W-Magic Comet2. Cloud and Yuffie sometimes jumped in with 4xCut but that barely amounted to 4-5,000 a piece so...yeah, Aerith with her 1,500 or so per hit twice every turn was the only way I could have won there. Only used one Megalixiri too so I'm proud of myself for that.

Is Armageddon a "every so many turns" move? I interpreted it as a "you've chippped away so much health" thing but I wasn't really basing that off anything. i just kept thinking "okay, he's used it once, he's 25% dead...okay he used it again, now he's half-way dead..." I guess I just needed that because, you know, I had no idea how outmatched I was or not and if I was actually getting anywhere close to killing him.

I do have to admit though,  Carmine was kinda disappointingly easy. I beat it in about...6 minutes? On my first attempt no less.  I guess Omnislash helped but even still, Cloud's regular physical attacks (with Mastered Elemental Lightning equipped) did about 5K-6K per cut.

I'm feeling really good right now though, hehe.

But since I have to get those two extra Behemoth Horns anyway, I think it's time I start some more AP grinding. I haven't leveled up Qudra Magic or Mastered W-Magic or anything. Definitely going to want at least 2 or 3 of that. W-Item too maybe.

EDIT:

Wait, what's supposed to happen with the Chocobo boss? I waled on it forever and it just ran away... I don't think that was supposed to happen?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-23 19:47:05
Nemesis isn't the best; I basically had this idea to recreate the boss (attacks, AI, etc.) of the same name from FFX's monster arena but it's a bit one-dimensional with it's attack pattern. The stats were originally the same too but I figured I should just drop them if I was putting in a level-cap, etc.

Carmine is probably easier than the original Emerald Weapon because of the reduced stats, save for the Gravity immunity so that's not much surprise. I didn't really make an attempt to start tinkering around with his AI but one of these days I'll sit down and see what I can do with it, maybe make a new variant of it for some new content somewhere. Glad to see you using elements though, that's something I want people to be considering in their set-up, along with statuses.

The Chocobo just starts with high stats but you can adjust those stats by feeding it different types of greens (and it resets a counter for M.A.D Breath whenever it's fed). Why, was he broken or was it just fairly easy to fight through it?

Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-23 20:15:03
Well it was a tough fight in a sense that none of the Greens I tried did a lick of good in terms of hitting the damned thing. I had to just spam magic and when I got Cloud's or Yuffie's Limits up I'd use whichever green lowered its Defense/raised Attack.  Then I'd use the other Green that raised Defense/lowered Attack after I got my Limits off. All I know is I got off two Omnislashes and 2 Doom of the Livings (with Omnislash doing 2K per hit and Doom doing about 600 per hit) plus Aerith's magic must have done....uh, I dunno, 100K? i used a lot of Turbo Ethers on her.

Anyway, was I supposed to be able to kill the thing? How much HP does it have? I didn't think it would run away but I guess the last Greens I threw to it went faster than the others maybe?

Also yeah I saw what you were going for with the mod's Nemesis being like FFX's. I thought it was a pretty cool fight. Armageddon is a helluva move if you aren't healed up and ready for it.  Plus you need  Ribbons to survive Ultra Spark and that makes  it a bit harder since it means you won't have Accessories to boost stats or anything.

Although I forgot to mention - Cait Sith's sidequest? That was both hilarious and awesome. It was also one of the harder optional bosses.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-23 20:37:46
Oh, right; that's normal then. When he dies, he uses the 'run away' animation that Chocobos usually use when they've been hit. I thought you meant he was doing something unusual, like not attacking or something. Each Green will raise a stat, but lower another one so it sounds like his physical defence was quite high but his Magical defence was quite low. At the start (pre-greens) all his stats are generally high.

But it seems like I need to get this next wave of stuff finished. I'll make a second bracket for the Junon Leagues and get this Keystone Disc 3 thing finished. Someone suggested Dark Summons (like FFX's Dark Aeons) on the YT channel so that'll probably take some form soon.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-10-24 06:32:39
Wow the Keystone, Leagues, and Dark Aeons stuff sounds neat.

What's the mammoth machine, is that something new?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-24 07:48:02
The Mammon Machine is the boss guarding Knights of the Round. 

I just kicked its ass too. Thank God I decided to go and finish up the Extra Battle bosses first. I got a Wizard Staff from Tyrant that allowed Aerith to get 2K per hit in Comet2. She was dealing 36K per turn. So awesome. I used up a few of my Megalixirs but oh well, I still have 4 more, plus 20 regular Elixirs. With W-Item now, that should be more than enough. I was worried there at the end of the fight when it said it was approaching limit since I assumed it would do some crazy damage technique that we could not survive, even with Wall or Shield. I was going to use my two Gospel Sparks but then Aerith was kind enough to win the fight before it could use the limit.

BTW, does Tyrant give any more rewards? First fight I got Red's Magic +30 weapon, second fight I got Gospel Spark and third fight was the Wizard Staff. Fought him about four or five more times and got nothing else. Was hoping to get a Magic +30 weapon for Cloud or Yuffie.

Speaking of KOTR though...um, is it supposed to kill me? I tried to use it on the Midgar Zolom because every fight up to this point the thing has just immediately ended the fight by ejecting my party.  I wanted to try and kill it at last. Only I killed myself with my Sneak Attack KOTR.

Anyway, I too would love Dark Aeons. Hell, I'd love just a New Game + feature. That woud give me more incentive to keep playing the mod even after I beat the game.

So I think that does it for optional bosses, right?
Viridian Weapon - Beaten
Carmine Weapon - Beaten
All Extra Battle Bosses - Beaten
Al Kalm Traveler Bosses - Beaten
All Materia Cave Bosses - Beaten

All that's left is the final bosses, right? I'm pumped!!!

EDIT:

Wait, was it the Hero Medal you said earlier that I needed for the "secret ending"? You advised me to get a couple of them right? For NG+? I could probably do that. Be easier now with W-Item and stuff.

EDIT 2:

I now have 2 Hero Medals. I might go for a third but I can't see me doing any more than that. Don't be too hard on yourself - Nemesis is no pushover as a superboss for this mod. The fight is long and intense and you constantly need to watch out. Even with Ultra Spark's status ailments gone thanks to Ribbon, it will bring you down to just too little HP to survive Armageddon.

The new equipment I got from the Mammon Machine is helping a lot though. Mystile or something like that? Whatever it is, a lot of Nemesis' attacks miss now. The Minerva Band also seems to help Yuffie dodge it on occasion. Cloud though, he always gets hit and even if all he ot hit by was one Ultra Spark, it takes him to 100 Hp too little to survive Armageddon.

It's a pretty awesome fight. You have to keep on your toes.

EDIT 3:

Looking at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbGPS9bGmzo

He seems to do way more damage. That Cannon move only does like 2K or so on me, maybe 3.  Then again, the fight seems to go way quicker for the LP'er than it does for me.  Plus he has like, thousands more HP than I do. lol

EDIT 4:

Do you know if Nemesis gets stronger each time you fight him? Because holy hell, he will not stop killing Cloud now. I have not changed Cloud's equipment at all that I know of... Maybe one or two Materia I removed made all the difference but before Cloud could survive Armageddon, now he cannot. I'll have to look into this. I was trying to make my own video but it ended up being just an epically long failure.

EDIT 5:

Got my 3rd Hero Medal and made a video of it! A half-an-hour long! 6 GB! And that was half-sized in Fraps.... But yeah, long fight. I guess that just means I really suck. I don't know what made Cloud die easier on my third attempt but I remedied the situation by saying screw it to the Gigas Armlet. I didn't want to get rid of it because it had Str + 30 but I wanted to test out the Escort Guard. Well, no longer was Armageddon doing 6600 to Cloud. Now it only did 4900 or so. Plus losing 30 points of Str didn't hurt as much as I thought it would. Cloud only did like, 100 less damage per slash. So...yeah, gonna stick with the EG from now on.

Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-10-24 14:02:33
Those youtube videos that I uploaded were from the older version 1.1, that's why my party had tons of HP until Sega put in the curve. Sounds like you made awesome progress :> . If you have the hero medal(s) in your inventory, you should be able to save right after the Safer boss fight, that's when you know you triggered the "ending".

Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-24 15:30:41
Like LCP says, some of his playthrough stuff is from 1.1 which had a few differences:
-) No level cap
-) Plus Materia available (HP Plus, etc.)
-) Sources available (actually easier to get)
-) Different Monster strength (some weaker, some stronger)

The goal of 1.2 was to make a challenging curve that holds from the start to the bottom of the Crater, but I also took out the Plus Materia (save for MP Plus) and Sources so I could introduce them later if needed. Same thing with certain pieces of armor; the Shinra Alpha, Ziedrich, Imperial Guard, and Aegis Armlet were pushed back so there'd be something to nab for either NG+ or the lengthier sidequests I want to make.

Here's the drop list for the Extra Battle and some other roulettes; mind that the way item drops work is that it checks each one in ascending order, so the lower down ones are less likely as the items above them have to 'fail' to drop first:

Proud Clod/Asimov
-) Ragnarok (16)
-) God's Hand (16)
-) Spirit Lance (16)

Hojo Lifeform/Calamity
-) Umbrella 8
-) Behemoth Horn 8
-) Starlight Phone 8
-) Oritsuru 8

Variablis
-) Fire Ring (16)
-) Ice Ring (16)
-) Bolt Ring (16)
-) Guardian Ring (16)

Love Buster
-) Curse Ring (16)
-) Reflect Ring (16)
-) Protect Ring (16)
-) Relic Ring (16)
Morph: Pile Banger

Abyss
-) Ribbon (32)
Morph: Oversoul Shard

Nycta Dragon
-) SS-Mine (16)
-) Magic Shuriken (16)
-) Outsider (16)
Morph: Oversoul Shard

Tyrant
-) Gospel Spark (16)
-) Spring Gun Clip (16)
-) Wizard Staff (16)
Morph: Oversoul Shard

Seems like you've killed pretty much everything; there's still the Junon League to try out though, that's accessed from the Beginner's Hall in Junon by talking to the two soldiers in black down there. It's only one bracket and should be fairly easy to sweep through with enough firepower (I think they all only have about roughly 10kHP each), but it rewards some of the new attack items like SS-Mines and Fletch Rockets.

As far as the NG+ goes, I'm going to re-do every enemy in the game with a different colour, name, and move-set but besides that I'm setting up a pared down scenario for progressing through the game that cuts out most of the story; the player starts in the Sector 7 bar, Meteor has been summoned, and you have to get from there to the Crater is the basic gist. The first goal of that would be finding the 'Key to Sector 5' key-item to get out of that door close to the Church and leave Midgar. This would be the last addition to the mod, though; I've a bunch of other stuff to do first. That said, the prototype for Midgar is currently working; maybe a demo soon? :p

But yeah, for the secret fight all you need is one Hero Medal in the inventory; these'll have a consumable effect in NG+ so having more than one isn't a waste. I'll actually need to set up a save point for AFTER the last boss fight (both versions) so that it transitions easier into the NG+; I think teleporting to a repurposed Debug room might be the key, makes it much easier for the two flevels to pass the baton if the player has to be on one particular field to transition across. That room + save will be in the next update, I'll try and get that done quick.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-24 18:46:14
Ugh, I'm definitely going to need to buff my secondary party members... I've ever done this whole thing with Bizarro Sephiroth and while I was able to kill some parts of him, I didn't know the strategy to it until I looked it up. Killing both Arm Parts and then the Core Parts  isn't easy and means my Level 50 other teams around for a while and none of them can survive anything. Well maybe one attack, barely....


I didn't want to grind Limits. It's boring as strawberries. But it doesn't look like I have much choice. The only way any of them are going to be able to win is with Level 4 Limits. I have some Mastered Comet and Ultima too but, again, they're all weak as hell.

Do you know how much HP you gave the Core Parts?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-24 20:03:50
It's a surprisingly tough fight when all three parties have to get involved; perfect template for a future super-boss, eh?  :wink:

Anyways, this is the low-down on Bizarro/Pinnacle:

-) Torso: 80,000HP + 60,000HP if KOTR was used during Jenova-SYNTHESIS fight.
-) Head: 16,000HP
-) Core: 35,000HP
-) Arms: 20,000HP

That's consistent across all forms and variants. The way it goes is usually this:

Starts off with centre party. They have to kill a part to move to the other two teams, generally best to go for either an Arm or the Head and focusing damage. Game then prompts to transition to another party (careful not to pick the wrong option!)

Your Left and Right parties are uneven, as one party only has two people. The two-man team should be beefier than the three-party team to try and compensate for that. The goal of the Left and Right teams is to expose their side of the Core and destroy it; to do that, they have to kill the Arm which protects it. However, the Head will revive the Arm so the sequence for Left/Right Party is:
1) Head
2) Arm parts
3) Core

When their Core-side is destroyed, try to swap to your other team and do the same thing there. The Two-Party team is fighting less targets if memory serves. When both Core Sides were destroyed, try and swap over to the centre team. If the game swaps you to the wrong team (I'm not sure how it decides, might be a cycle or set-pattern) then usually the Head will revive for you to destroy and get the swap prompt again.

Finally, Centre Team has to destroy both Arms to reveal the Core. The head will revive at intervals in this one, so it's best to ignore it and focus on getting that Core wrecked. Once it's gone, you're on the home straight to wreck the Torso.

...or alternatively start Centre team with Aeris, she uses Planet Protector or Great Gospel for the Peerless/Invincible status, then let rip with KOTR+MP Turbo on W-Summon. That works too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-25 11:48:02
I actually tried that KOTR strategy but my game kept freezing every time it tried to complete the summon animation. Dunno why.

But anyway....

PROOF OF SUCCESS!!!!
http://i.imgur.com/kDkcJfw.png

I didn't need to go grind Limits or anything! That was what was really killing me. i was SO CLOSE to finishing the game and I didn't want to head all the way back just to grind for an entire day.

But with some creative use of my Materia, I pulled it off. For one thing, I now have a new appreciation for Quadra Magic. I mastered it once but it didn't seem very useful. Ultima is massively depowered per use so maybe you come away with a 1000 extra damage but so what? HOWEVER, even when it was equipped to a weakling like Cait Sith or Tifa, Quadra Magic Ultima did 1500 a shot. So even they could not do almost 8000 damage a turn.  Yet this led to more anxiety on my part. Since I had dismissed it as useless, I only had one mastered QM. For a time I tried using it on Team 2 but that wasn't working. I ended up just giving Cait Sith Ultima to do a pitiful 2000 or so a turn while Cid did at least some damage with his Rocket Jump Limit Break - about 3000 or so. He was nice enough to get it all the time thugh so that helped. Then I gave Vincent a Circlet and one of my Mastered Comet Materias to be the main damage dealer in Team 2 and once you get every other part out of the way, Comet2 will wreck the Core.

For my two person team I kept trying with Barret because he has more HP than Tifa but theN i recalled Tifa also had one of her Defense Weapons, God's Hand.  I ended up giving Tifa my Mastered QM while Red got a W-SUmmon. That way he can start the fight with Bahamut ZERO and Typhon. Together they pretty much kill all the parts. At most it takes one more attack. I used those Magical Ashes or something I got from the Mammon Machine.  Once all the parts were down, I repeated my strategy from Team 2 and used Comet2 to obliterate the Core when it was unprotected.

It sounds so simple and easy yet it sure wasn't. So many failures and rearranging of materia to figure out this....

I was worried about Safer because none of us had Barrier Materia to protect against Mega Nova and I DID NOT want to have to go through that previous fight again.  I ended up using one of my Gospel Sparks on Aerith just to be safe. Needn't have worried though, it did only about 2K, maybe 3K damage. And he died immediately after using it.

Phew....I did it! I'm very happy. 
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-25 16:40:54
Sounds great! One of the things I want from this mod is for it to encourage people to get more into the game's mechanics and try different things; it sounds like Comet2 is a bit OP seeing as I have it 6 hits instead of 4 but seeing as it loses a lot of it's effectiveness against multiple targets/groups I think I can live with that. A problem with Safer is that it would really suck to lose there after going through Bizarro, but it's one of those things where a save point between them would utterly break the tension.

KOTR (and other multi-hit spells) can freeze the game when used against a multi-target enemy with I think HP/MP Drain attached to it. Or was it only when it was attached to Quadra and HP/MP Drain? I forget.

No refund.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-10-29 23:41:56
So found a few interesting things last night to report in:
 - Peace Rings from the first version of the Battle Arena are listed at 4,000 points but actually cost 8,000.
 - Those goblin dudes at Gongaga are little bastards. >_>
 - Lambda Calcule is confusing. I imagine this is by design, but I'm worried I screwed up and missed out on something.
 - Vincent... Well... http://www.twitch.tv/potatohandle/c/5394779 (Warning: Nibelheim spoilers.)
 - I believe the new items I mentioned last time are still un-useable. (If you just haven't had time yet, that's cool, just a reminder.)

Had a lot of fun yesterday, was very surprised a number of times, hehe. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-30 00:17:01
That Peace Ring price must have been a nasty shock; it's easy to fix but I'll double-check them all again. I revised the prizes recently, was the thing. I've been working on an extensive patch to fix up a big list of problems, issues, and stuff that was just no good, including a quite serious one regarding variables (I had to test for new variables and change them all) which is why I'm running a bit late on it. Very nearly done though.

Battle Square 1 & 2 is just about done; and because I can't do much about the roulette, I decided to do away with the random groups and make it the same eight fights every time (like how Special Battle works) and hand-picked which fights would appear. I also added AI to deal with the auto-buff so monsters that appear now have their original HP, STR, and MAG rather than a %-boost (which tends to become unmanageable in mods where stats are adjusted). I also changed the one-time Keystone Battle Square event prize to some things that'll be much more useful, including another new item.

Ultimate strats on Vincent, eh? :p

In 1.1 I was using a weird set-up to get around a glitch where character-models used as enemies soft-lock the game when struck by attacks. I had an invisible 'hit-box' the player would attack while the player-model enemy would use attacks, so two enemies to make one. Thing is, I since found a way to make it so that these guys could be attacked directly but I've likely forgotten to update their status defence info. I better give them all a quick check to make sure their elemental weaknesses and the like are all what they should be.

Lambda's only gimmick is that if he's killed before he can transform into one of his two forms, the fight will repeat. The only way to end it is to trigger his transformation and then kill him, at which point he'll eject the player party from the battle and end it properly. A lot of people have said they found him confusing, though; I reckon it might be time to get rid of this and make him just like Lost Number but with the different attacks. Boxer in Gongaga, however, will remain his usual bastard self.

I'm gonna watch that big ol' highlight for notes, etc. though judging from the title it seems like I better get this battle square fixed up pronto  :-X
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-10-30 00:37:52
Haha, the battle arena is alright, but it takes a very particular setup which took a while to nail down, including the Wall Ring from the speed square which itself needs some not-well-known-strats (Or actual skill, I guess. >_>) to get the maximum reward from, hehe.

With the extra levels and materia from getting up to Nibel I've got a setup which works quite reasonably now, gunna grind away for those reflect rings over the next couple of days, hehe. Something to consider would be adding in a 'nicer' way of getting GP at this point in the game. Not that playing Super Dunk with a metronome isn't extremely exciting or anything. :P

EDIT: And yeah the actual fight against Lambda seemed basically the same as normal, it was just the eject and the dialogue which made me think I missed something.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-30 02:01:35
I was thinking that actually; one of the biggest obstacles to actually doing anything in the Gold Saucer in Disc 1 & 2 is getting GP (Most people wait for Chocobo Racing for a big supply of GP from trading in rare items/Materia for 3-500GP).

What I'll do is up the GP awards from the machines, and have Cait Sith give the party a 'present' of 100GP or so to start when he joins. That should fix her up.

I'm up to Gongaga in your highlight, saw a puzzling glitch with the music there but I think I've found the cause so that'll hopefully be fixed up too. It looks like I left components in there to handle music after the Reno fight and got distracted before I finished it. Might tune the fight up to make it more interesting, and give them stuff to steal.

Patch will be up tomorrow it seems like, should make grinding those Reflect Rings a fair bit easier. The eight encounters will be the same every time (might expand it later but I reckon it'll be better that way, easier to prepare and kills some of the RNG already in the Battle Square). I also put different music in for each iteration of Battle Square, ease that inevitable Aseri2 headache ._.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-30 14:48:17
Them there new patches are up. 15 days worth of bug fixin' and wrangling, featuring:

-) Cleaned up variables used by the NT Mod, as there was a risk that some variables were already in use by the game. This is largely harmless for current players, but has the side-effect of making Lv.4 Limit Sidequests available for completion again if they were finished prior. The only real consequence of this is that you can now get a second copy of every Lv.4 Limit Book and another O. Shard (maybe some more EXP too, Extra Bosses don't have the level cap AI).

-) Battle Square rebalanced with a static eight encounters for each variant, with the first two (pre-Bronco and post-Bronco) having enemies with AI to prevent the auto-buff that Battle Square (which shortens to BS, interestingly) gives it's enemies. GP rewards were also boosted for the Basketball and Wonder-Catcher minigame (the others will be boosted soon), and Cait Sith gives the party 100GP when he joins the party to encourage folk to stick around the Disc 1 Gold Saucer and try stuff out, like, uh, Battle Square...

-) Fixed a tonne of issues and made various optimisations to bosses from all over the game. Key attention was paid to end-game bosses where Shield could make them unable to inflict any damage, so a mix of non-elemental attacks was put in there to keep players on their toes.

-) Made Junon Leagues available much earlier, from Disc 1.

-) Adjusted Materia equip effects and fixed the broken Mime Materia.

-) Some spell balances; KOTR was made usable again, Comet2 got a slight nerf, and Ultima was buffed.

-) Umbrella placed back in Speed Square's Disc 1, and is available from Lifeform Hojo as an uncommon drop.

If I've missed anything, then let me know.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-10-31 00:34:12
Was in the Area getting Mythril, and had a few minutes to try the Junon league this morning. I can *almost* beat some of them, haha. I'm impressed by the amount of content there though, all new bosses; I'm excited to get a bit tougher so I can try for reals. \o/

I have run into the big mounted dude in the arena before and beaten him there (Wondered why he had dialogue, now it makes sense, hehe.) but I got berserked before I could slow him this time, so he kicked my butt, hehe. A few were way too hard though so I'll prolly try again after Rocket Town. Gunna try and smash some battle arena tonight, but I snagged 2 reflect rings with my remaining GP so I was getting the old version sussed out, but some encounters were nearly unbeatable so it's good to see a change, might be inclined to grab some Curse Rings now as well.

Thanks again for all your work on the mod Sega, it's a really fun experience. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-31 00:47:22
No prob, thanks for playing it and going through the headache of streaming it. Next thing is Dark Summons (like FFX's Dark Aeons) but I've been thinking it'd be a good idea to add stuff for Disc 1/2 as well. A few new things for earlier on couldn't hurt. I've been looking at Kattan and Sample G0512's mechanics as well, to see how viable it is to transplant Kattan's mechanic to Sample (which would be a better fit, and solves that boss being too flat and uninteresting at present) but I'll need to come up with a replacement for Kattan.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2014-10-31 16:46:45
Well if anyone wants to see absolutely how NOT to fight Nemesis, here's my third Hero Medal vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BWpp34l8wM

It takes way too long I figure but, well, I suck. Also it's not the best quality because my computer can't really handle the game and Fraps running at the same time too well.


Can I just say I hate the Limit Break system in this game? "Oh yes we'll make it so you can't use any more physical attacks until after you use your Limit. Or you die, either or." Maybe I don't want to use my Limit because the boss counters with Ultima!

My favorite part is when you use a Limit on Nemesis, he counters with Ultima, but that doesn't count as his turn so his actual next turn is Armageddon. Coming right on the heels of Ultima. This video is 100% Good Luck on my part with both of those missing Aerith. But yeah, if not for that thing I got from thE Mammon Machine, this would have been another failure video. Again, it's more of a guide how NOT to fight Nemesis.

 I find the smartest strategy of dealing with the counter-Ultima is to have a W-Magic/W-Item lined up and ready to go. If you need some last second healing to ensure you survive the counter, use one spell/item to heal, then activate the other character's Limit to interrupt the W-Magic/Item, and then immediately after the Limit and Ultima the healer will complete the W-Magic/Item turn, restoring your party  to decent levels, if not full.

Still, I love that fight. I might have to retry it now Comet2 is weaker.  I'll def have to think of a new strategy.

Honestly I'd rather have made a video of the new Jenova WAR encounter where you get some backup because that was awesome. But I'd have to get back to the fight and it just be a bit of a pain. Besides, PH is spreading the good word about the NT mod so I don't need to make any more bad videos.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-10-31 19:28:31
I hadn't thought about that for Nemesis; in FFX, Overdrives don't replace the attack command like they do here. There are a few ways around it, like equipping Mug, but it's always been a pain no matter how you slice it.

FF7 PC is a bit dodgy for recording/frame-rates because of the way it limits frames; I've seen a lot of beefy machines be unable to record smoothly whenever graphical mods are installed. A quad-core seems to help though, my old entry-level PC doesn't have a dedicated Graphics card but it can get fights down with Fraps without any real frame-loss (except for field screens when ran in a window)

Make videos of whatever you want to; there's plenty of footage around the place but there's always stuff that gets missed out either due to RNG or because the player party was too strong for it to have a chance to trigger. If FPS is a problem, you could always try speeding the footage up by 1.5x; I tried watching your video with that setting and it more or less moved at the speed it was supposed to, even the audio (although speeding it up in Windows MovieMaker means that the audio is lost; to get around that, make a separate file by converting the video to audio and speed that up in something like Audacity, then lay your sped-up audio track over the muted sped-up footage in movie-maker as a 'music track'; just need to make sure it's synched correctly).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2014-11-02 19:09:31
Hey Sega Chief,

After finally building my new pc i have got round to playing your mod, well sort of ha. I have mainly been trying it with 7H and loading other mods on top and going through which ones break it and which ones don't and so far the one i really want to work just totally breaks it which is the Menu Overhaul Mod, is there any reason why this would break it?

Also any chance you are close to releasing a 7H version so we can combine it with the HD stuff?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-02 20:20:15
I'm not sure why the Menu Overhaul would break it, I know very little about that mod and only used it once for a test-play of Kuugen's Nightmare7 mod. It might be that it's not set up properly, but if it's working with the default game/other mods then there's likely a conflict somewhere. What I do know is that MO interacts with things like the kernel for text, etc. so that might be where the conflict arises.

I can't actually build a 7H version because of the way a game converter is needed to get the program running properly, and my PC doesn't work with it for some reason (which would make it very difficult to test if it works). Also, the scene.bin and some other files need to be coded into some kind of special patch rather than just being placed into folders (that's my understanding of it anyway) and I wouldn't know where to begin with that. Alyza had volunteered to put one together for me as part of the catalog, but she's not been in touch about it for a few weeks now so I don't know what's happening with that at present.

I could have a shot at tinkering with the NT files and an installation of Menu Overhaul (using the non-7H installer for Menu Overhaul) and then the models could be patched in through 7H after that? I'm not sure how it would all go together as I can't run the current 7H properly without the Game-Converter patch.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2014-11-02 20:36:15
You always reply so fast you never cease to amaze me.

Ok I have done loads of testing and pretty much every mod works with your mod in 7H that I have tested, that being all the graphic increasing mods such as spell effect, models, weapons, world map textures, field textures, battle textures, sound effects and avatars so menu overhaul must be messing with something and you know it messes up pretty early on. The first battle with the two soldiers will be a battle with a high level enemy in a forest who kicks your butt in two seconds. loading a previous saying and ending up in a battle just causes a crash.

If we can crack this down maybe you won't need a 7H version? I'd be happy to help you test idea's if you want to work together on this?

BTW I had trouble with the game converter as well, specially if i FF7 installed in any form of program folder, even on my secondary drive but sticking it in \Games\Final Fantasy 7\ got it to behave and run properly
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-02 22:09:57
Thanks for that info; wrong encounters loading sounds a lot like a kernel synching issue that can happen when either the kernel or scene.bin have been edited which means the Menu Overhaul is likely making adjustments to the kernel which leaves it unsynched with the scene.bin. That means the kernel and scene.bin have to be re-synched once Menu Overhaul has been installed.

Have you tried installing Menu Overhaul from it's separate installer? I think it's part of the Reunion installer but everything else can be left unticked so that only Menu Overhaul installs. With that in, you could then manually re-synch the scene + kernel using the Proud Clod tool. Basically, all you'd have to do is give PrClod admin permissions, open up the scene.bin, and then select create/save scene.bin. The tool would then ask if you want to check the kernel and if yes, it'll offer to synch them if they don't match up. Then you could run 7H to apply the graphical mods, etc.

One thing I'm wondering about is if I can make a special hotfix patch made using a Menu Overhaul modified kernel, and if it would be usable with 7H Menu Overhaul. I could maybe try it if the Reunion installer is temporarily unavailable (I think it was taken down pending the R02 update; if so, I'll have a shot at it; the special patch would be 700KB or so, but no guarantees it'll work).

Edit: I got the Menu Overhaul working with the NT Mod, but the kernel-scene seemed to be fine. I reckon a NT Mod installation, then the Menu Overhaul (just the Menu Overhaul part of the Reunion installation), followed by running 7H for graphical mods could do the trick.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2014-11-02 22:37:16
well in 7H you have limited options concerning the menu overhaul mod but the main part is doing something :/ If i choose no change but do choose to have no command box, no battle box and the 9999 break limit applied it will run fine... so not sure what menu overhaul itself is doing as this isn't my field, I don't mind trying your idea unless you already have a patch for me to try?

seems you were right, as they are working on RO2 they have took RO1 down :(
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-11-03 08:17:59
'Ello Chief; quick bug report. The Sea Worms near Mideel seem to have a move which softlocks the game. Really enjoyed the new Battle Arena 2 boss btw. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-03 12:56:39
Found the issue, one of the two Sea Worm entries has Sandstorm listed twice in their animation index instead of the new attack Tidal Wave. All it needs is the 700KB scene.bin patch, so I'll quickly upload that.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Screaver on 2014-11-09 19:13:15
Hey Sega,
first I would like to thank you for making this awesome mod! It got me playin' my old favorite game again :) But I have a question - when I'm fighting the turks in Gongaga, the battle continiues endlessly ... If the battle is won, reno just repeats his first question an so everything starts again ^^ Is there already a fix for this?

ps: if my english is not correct, sorry^^
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-09 19:16:15
I'll look into it and get it fixed right away.

Edit: I found the issue, a handler for music behaviour was jumping back to an earlier label in the script (repeating the scene) rather than allowing it to finish. A flevel/field Hotfix patch will be up in about 20-30 minutes (110MB).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-11-09 23:43:52
So I finished disc 1 last night, some amazing bosses in the latter part of the disc, haha. Really awesome job, loved every bit of it.

One question though; is the game balanced for powersoul use from Nibel onwards? After smashing the last two bosses with it without any real trouble, my chat is suggesting I ban the use of powersoul in my playthrough to make the fights more interesting; which I'm happy to go along with, but if the fights are going to get tougher to accommodate the use of powersoul, I may keep using it. I'm used to pure difficulty mods where they just assume you'll be using powersoul and adjust the bosses accordingly, so I'm just deciding the best course of action to make for a fun stream, hehe. \o/

Thanks for any advice. \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-11-10 00:11:59
I think you're going to see the use of power soul dissipate entering disc 2. You'll find more equipment with interesting effects as you go along. The difficulty certainly spikes up, and I found myself switching different equipment/materia combinations  a lot. But that's just me 8-)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-10 00:46:05
Yeah, I watched the stream and I've got a few things to say about this:

-) Nothing (if anything) in the mod was specced with a Powersoul (or Master Fist) in mind. I fought and balanced everything based on a 'standard' team; if you want to fight with a Powersoul then I've no problem with that, I'm fully aware of how strong it is (I used it myself to decimate a French Hardcore mod a while back) and I also know how fun it is to use and that the majority of people would want it to be in the game, intact.

The reason I didn't spec bosses/enemies to handle it's potential damage output is because I felt that making an enemy tough enough to withstand a mechanic like Powersoul, Omnislash, KOTR, etc. makes those mechanics necessary, and completely obsoletes everything else. If a boss has enough HP to survive a barrage of Mimed Limits then Mimed Lv.4 Limits become the only viable option. The better thing, in my mind, is to find a way for as many mechanics to co-exist with each other as possible. There's also the chance that people wouldn't get the Powersoul until later; that'd leave them stranded to a degree if they then came up against bosses with enough HP to tank Powersoul damage.

Thing is, your situation isn't that simple because you've got people watching you play and they'll have different ideas about how Powersoul (and other things) should be used. It's ultimately your call, I'm afraid. That said, there's a weapon coming up for Tifa that might tempt you away from the Powersoul, or at least take some of the sting away if you do decide to drop that weapon for streams.

-) Sadness + Backrow: One thing I've been meaning to say is that you may actually be hampering yourself with this Hardcore mod set-up to a certain extent. With no Long Range, a lot of your physical attacks are dealing half damage and Sadness is crippling your Limit Breaks. When I re-balanced the mod for 1.2, the party were always front row with no Sadness because I didn't want people to have to take a defensive approach all the time as it slows the game down for them. There's actually enemies/bosses that are harder to fight with a set-up like this, because some have AI that triggers a powerful attack after a certain number of turns or which use magical/%-based attacks.

There are exceptions like Powersoul Keeper when it's under Death Sentence (the timer for which can be ran down in one turn using Full-Speed Active ATB; I think that's the trick the guys in your chat were referring to), but for the most part a front row team is more than viable in this mod. Random enemies were always specced to fight this; front row, no sadness, no barriers. For tougher enemies and bosses, it was still front row and no sadness but barriers were used. It's up to you, but I'd recommend being more aggressive with random encounters at least.

But at the end of the day, there's no right or wrong way to do things. Just varying degrees of efficiency. By the way, part of the update coming up is a new boss for the Alexander fight (it currently uses a regular enemy formation, which is double-lousy because that fight can actually be ran away from and be counted as a win). There's also another League bracket going in and a bunch of new random enemies to bolster the ailing ranks of my poor battered beasties. I'm aiming to have the update done soon(ish).

@LCP, I removed the item requirements from Extra Battle; they can be fought whenever now.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-11-10 03:25:49
Thanks for the very detailed information. I'll continue without Tifa for the storyline stuff, but I'll still use her for stuff like the Junon leagues as needed. (Which I'm trying to beat Amateur before I move on towards the great glacier with some level of success, hehe.)

As for Sadness/backrow; it's an awkward thing because the mod, while it isn't a total RIP-fest like the mods made purely for difficulty, it's still challenging enough to warrant general carefulness. My general method for bosses on the first attempt of other mods (Usually on the assumption that I will almost certainly be killed on my first try. :P) is to 'survive and learn' and while your bosses are by design, not as brutal as previous mods I've done, they still often require a lot of learning and testing.

Even with Sadness though, I've found nearly all the bosses until Rocket Town at very least adequately challenging, usually moreso. So I will probably keep generally using Sadness as a first point of call, but I'll try and be more weary of the potential of needing to level limits.

And for back row I'll be using this situationally, I've been trying to set up characters in 'roles' for the whole game, but I keep changing people's 'jobs' so to speak, so I haven't gotten very far yet. As I go through the glacier though, I'm hoping to set up Cloud as the support/tank with cover/barrier/haste in the back row, Yuffie in the front row as physical damage, eventually with Mug and/or 2x cut, etc as well as various independent materia and Aeris as the token omni-mage in the back row. That said, the early availability of reflect rings may lend itself to an interesting triple-mage/triple-reflect destruction squad for some fights, but usually when I try and set that up it doesn't work very well because of the lack of healing. (See: Palmer, haha.)

I'm happy to wait until the weekend for the Alexander fight; got to catch up on other streams, so if it's done by then I'll give it a go, thanks for the heads-up! \o/
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-17 01:02:46
Hey there, I've got an experimental .EXE patch for the NT Mod that could do with some testing if anyone's up for it. This is only for 1998 installations at the moment, I've not drummed up a Steam version yet.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/7fmfse2w533f3jf/NT_Mod_.EXE_Patch_2.exe

Installation is a little different this time but still pretty simple; make a folder on your desktop called FF7 EXE, drop a default ff7.exe into it, then run the patcher and point it at the folder you made. Once it's done, drop the patched .exe file back into the game's folder.

Basically, this would be an optional .EXE patch designed to make play a little more challenging in the NT Mod. It does three things:

1) Enables long range physical attacks for enemies; this helps to hamper the effectiveness of Back Row and fixes one of the more broken mechanics in the game.

2) Alters Materia Equip effects so that they're much more pronounced; this makes set-ups harder to come up with because equipping too many powerful Materia will leave you with very little HP and other weaknesses. Though the equip effects are 'done', their overall impact on an entire playthrough is still a mystery as enemies weren't specced with it in mind. This is one of the main things I'd like some feedback on.

3) Limit Break Adjustments: I made tweaks to most of the limit breaks, some quite subtle and others not as much.

And finally:
http://www.mediafire.com/view/1a5nd84a32u7v2e/FF7_NT_Mod_EXE_Readme.txt

This ReadMe has a note on most of the changes for Materia and Limits. The main thing right now is getting some hard data about how it affects a playthrough because the Materia Equips in particular might make the game quite brutal to play if the penalties turn out to be too much (or worse, push the player away from using most of the spells/etc).

Cheers to Kuugen for giving me the heads-up on Materia Equip effects in the .exe. The long range stuff and whatnot I got from posts made by NFITC1 and Bosola when I went trawling through old threads.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Fennas on 2014-11-18 08:38:46
Loving this mod so far. I just finished Corel, got my buggy and decided to go back to fight the Alpha Zolom but he flushes me away everytime. Is there a secret in this mod to be able to fight him?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-18 14:16:57
Glad you're liking it, bud. For reasons I'm not quite sure of anymore, I set the Zolom to sweep away the player party if they had any character below Lv.70. The problem is, a level cap was introduced since then for Lv.70. I think the original idea was that this guy was going to carry Zeio nuts or something, but it goes dropped and they're back with the Goblins.

The next time there's a patch, I'll set the level cap down to 60 for him and give him a brand new item to drop. I'll need to give him some extra attacks though, he's not very versatile.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Ljubic on 2014-11-18 15:55:24
Thanks for the mod. I played through it two times now and i really liked how you changed bosses and added new things which were not there before. I only have one flaw (for me personally). I dont like how much you have to grind after every tenth level you reach (11,21,31 and so on) so i wanted to ask if there is any way to turn that off because I want to level up more fluently.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-18 16:02:33
The old version had the normal level caps, but a problem that sprung up was that people were hitting Disc 2 at Lv50+ and the main complaint I was getting was that fights were becoming too easy and/or that they felt like they couldn't stop to fight anything because of it. The level caps thing solved the problem in that everyone was reaching the Crater at roughly the same level range, but this was implemented before an actual level cap was put into enemy AI for giving EXP so it might not even be necessary anymore.

What I'll do is make a special patch that uses the old EXP curves for you and make it available to other people to try out. If it works out, then I can maybe roll that out as standard. It'll be uploaded in about 5mins?

Edit: Here it is, installation is the same as the Mod itself/hotfix patches, just point it at the relevant data folder: http://www.mediafire.com/download/a9g26oqldp2f198/NT_Mod_Original_EXP_Patch.exe

One thing to note, if this is used with pre-existing NT Mod save files (ones made with the old EXP curves) then a visual glitch will appear with the EXP gauges (because there's too much EXP in the gauge). This should correct itself after leveling up once and has no other side effects that I know of.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-11-19 04:33:12
Have you an idea how to create a hext file of this for DLPB's Hext_Launch?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Fennas on 2014-11-19 06:08:06
Glad you're liking it, bud. For reasons I'm not quite sure of anymore, I set the Zolom to sweep away the player party if they had any character below Lv.70. The problem is, a level cap was introduced since then for Lv.70. I think the original idea was that this guy was going to carry Zeio nuts or something, but it goes dropped and they're back with the Goblins.

The next time there's a patch, I'll set the level cap down to 60 for him and give him a brand new item to drop. I'll need to give him some extra attacks though, he's not very versatile.

So that's how it works. I usually come back to the zolom to get beta from him. No wonder I couldn't fight him with my lvl 22 party. I think I saw a playthrough for version 1.1 where he could be fought earlier. Anyway, thanks for the info :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-19 14:03:24
Have you an idea how to create a hext file of this for DLPB's Hext_Launch?

You mean for the vanilla EXP patch? I suppose so, but I'd need to find the hex addresses first.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-11-20 05:37:43
You mean for the vanilla EXP patch? I suppose so, but I'd need to find the hex addresses first.

I mean your whole exe patch.  Long range physical attacks for enemy's sounds pretty cool.  ::)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-20 06:14:16
Ah, gotcha. It's notes I took from info NFITC1 and others gave on old threads; I compiled what I found into a notepad. I could have a shot at setting up a Hext_Launch file.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-20 08:00:39
Hi, firstly really nice work man you re incredible :D

I just have a question, could you make this mod with some HD graphics? I mean like the advent children mod or something else that change the avatars? So long time i see thoose older avatars and mods like advent children bring fresh to this exellent game :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-20 08:21:29
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YALsdU4Mj0

If you can combinate this version with yours this will be perfect :D
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2014-11-20 08:53:57
Hello !
Sorry if the question has already been asked but : is it possible to install NT Mod with the exe and keeping my 'bootleg graphical overhaul' of the game( char and fields ) ?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-20 09:14:21
This is the same question of mine ^^
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-20 15:28:20
You mean with the optional NT .exe? I'm not sure, I've never used Bootleg. To answer both questions, the mod itself can run with any custom models, so long as the extra models used by the NT Mod for new enemies are left intact (if these are deleted due to a graphic mod's installer then the mod will soft-lock when it tries to load an enemy model that's no longer there). So it depends on the graphical mod installer; my own installer is easy to use, but basic in that it overwrites the entire .lgp files rather than just adding/changing the files that are new. Anything that changes default-story bosses, field screens (but not field script/dialogue), the battle backgrounds, and/or the characters should be fine.

So the first step would probably be installing the NT Mod, and then applying graphical mods on top of it. If the installers for those graphical mods are more precise than mine, they should only alter specific files while leaving everything else alone. I've seen people playing the NT Mod with graphical mods on top so it's definitely possible. The models can also be added manually by decompiling the char.lgp or battle.lgp and then moving the HD models in that way, overwriting the old ones before recompiling it (ULGP seems to be the tool for that).

As far as the prototype .exe goes, it should run fine with whatever mods are installed but if you installed something like the Menu Overhaul or anything else that alters the ff7.exe then I'm not sure how that'll go. I think the best thing as far as that goes is to try it out. If it doesn't work, swap over to a normal ff7.exe and patch that with Menu Overhaul, etc. instead. The NT Mod was actually specced with a default .exe in mind; the new one is just an optional add-on and I'm not even sure if it's balanced (the materia bonuses/penalties are quite heavy and I predict it'll make the game a lot harder).

Edit: @Kalderasha, I just got the HextLaunch thing working. I'm compiling a .txt file with all the hacks I've found on the threads which can be enabled/disabled by adding or removing a '#'.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-20 16:15:36
oh this looks complicate x)
best way is to try so but i don t want to restart all moded i instaled it took me so long time to worth it ^^
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-20 17:18:19
The NT Mod will (hopefully) be added to Bootleg and 7H in the future, which will make it much more simple.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-20 17:27:35
Hop this will come in lo longer timer :)
And i hope too bootleg finaly add some cid hd char because there is not hd char for him yet
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Vgr on 2014-11-20 17:33:45
It'll most definitely be in Bootleg. The frame for it is already there (as is for most of the mods), only need to add the install parser for it.

@levantine - I don't create mods; Bootleg only installs existing mods from other people. If someone makes it it'll be in, but I won't make it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-20 17:50:24
Thx for answer, and what about the mod that make the fps to 60 in your bootleg? :)
There is already hd char for cid but this is in advent children mod and i suppose that u wont put thoose graphics in your bootleg no?
So maybe i should ask for making hd char for cid on the forum
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Vgr on 2014-11-20 18:34:02
The 60FPS mod will be in. As for the Advent Children models, I cannot, since they're ripped (it's illegal).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-20 20:11:14
Yeah i knew but it cost nothing to ask ^^
Thx
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-11-20 21:22:41
There are two Cid mods that I know of which are legal, Kaldarasha and cmh175.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-20 21:42:47
ah, in my bootleg there is no proposition, maybe i have an older version ^^
anyway i will wait for the update would contain threat mod and 60 fps :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Vgr on 2014-11-20 23:49:15
ah, in my bootleg there is no proposition, maybe i have an older version ^^
anyway i will wait for the update would contain threat mod and 60 fps :)

The current release is old. The next version will not be out before a long while.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-21 07:34:17
Ah so in your future upadate you will put a lot of new in :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2014-11-21 08:14:42
And i hop there would be models for cid in your upadate :)

Hope too update will coming soon, can t w8 ^^

Thx again for answer, you all do a nice work !
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-22 15:43:49
how do i know your patcher worked?

cloud didnt start at level 1
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-22 17:45:06
The starting level was changed back to it's original (Lv.6) for the mod a while ago. The quickest way to tell is to open the magic menu after starting a new game; if Cloud has Fire as well as Ice and Bolt then the patcher has worked. Another way to tell is in the next screen, after naming Barret, he asks you which music option you want instead of telling you how to run.

Finally, opening the equip menu and looking at your Bronze Bangle can confirm if the patcher has worked; it should three Materia slots now instead of none: two linked and one single.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-23 06:54:48
barret is supposed to be low magic, right?

why does he have the highest magic out of the starter 3 lol he even gained 2 mag when he leveled up

nevermind, i used a trainer to set everybody's exp to 99999 and he ends up with less magic than cloud or tifa on average.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-23 16:53:22
The curves used have a little variation going through but on the whole they end up where they were intended. I checked Barret's Magic curve against Cloud and Tifa; he actually keeps pace with Cloud all the way until Lv.20+ (even though his maximum possible Magic is only 45 compared to Cloud's 85). What I might do is swap Tifa and Barret's Mag curve; gives her that option to use Magic a little better early in the game when her limits and attacks aren't standing out as much (whereas Barret has long range weapons).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ProtomanZxAdvent on 2014-11-23 19:45:09
i've always had tifa as the ex-skill user , cloud magic swordsman, aerith healer( swaped with vincnet or cid depending on how i fell)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Ljubic on 2014-11-23 19:52:17
Thanks for pulling out the patcher for the old exp rate so fast but im not able to patch the game with it. It always says that there are no files to patch even if I installed the mods even a second time.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-23 22:48:31
The curves used have a little variation going through but on the whole they end up where they were intended. I checked Barret's Magic curve against Cloud and Tifa; he actually keeps pace with Cloud all the way until Lv.20+ (even though his maximum possible Magic is only 45 compared to Cloud's 85). What I might do is swap Tifa and Barret's Mag curve; gives her that option to use Magic a little better early in the game when her limits and attacks aren't standing out as much (whereas Barret has long range weapons).

i'd rather see a boost to physical damage early than have yet another magic user. magic is just so overpowered early game that physical attacks outside of limits are almost pointless.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-24 01:43:35
i've always had tifa as the ex-skill user , cloud magic swordsman, aerith healer( swaped with vincnet or cid depending on how i fell)

I always looked at Tifa as a special damage-dealer because of Powersoul and Master Fist myself; great in challenge runs, speedruns, or difficulty mods.

Thanks for pulling out the patcher for the old exp rate so fast but im not able to patch the game with it. It always says that there are no files to patch even if I installed the mods even a second time.

I'll fix that up, it might be that I've made a mistake when putting the patcher together or that the files being patched are too similar to 0EXP ones (that's happened before; the patching tool is a bit basic). I'll make a new patcher tonight and test it out a few extra times to make sure.

i'd rather see a boost to physical damage early than have yet another magic user. magic is just so overpowered early game that physical attacks outside of limits are almost pointless.

I could have a shot at finding a better STR curve that gives a little more early on for Tifa. It's tough to get physical hits dealing more damage that early in the game though because of the way Level factors into the damage formula for physical hits. I'll see what's there.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-24 13:23:28
during the nibelheim flashback in kalm... sephiroth doesn't do anything lol

dragon owned my face in, too

i wanted to see what happens if you lose and it didnt take long with no healing spells and those silly hp totals

talking to the npc in the house 2 houses below cloud's house also bugged the game out.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-24 13:37:22
You should have control of Sephiroth in the flashback. Was there something up with their HP as well? It should be at least a few thousand; Seph's default was set to 7000 to account for the Materia he had.

I'll check that NPC too, it's probably a crossed variable somewhere.

Edit: I'm not sure what's happened with your game. While Seph's HP was lower than I intended, both characters were invincible through their AI which means something's not right with your kernel if that dragon was able to actually kill your flashback party (either it's a really old NT kernel or it got bugged somehow). The NPC two houses down from Cloud's house (the woman in green with the two kids?) didn't cause any problems either that I could find. I gotta know if you have other mods installed or if you downloaded the NT Mod a while ago (or if you got it from an older version of 7H or something; the NT Mod in that one was ancient).

I'd recommend giving the scene hotfix patch a whirl (700kb) just to be on the safe side, and maybe the flevel hotfix patch as well (110MB). When that NPC bugged out, what happened exactly? Did the game just soft-lock when you talked to her or did something else happen?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-24 14:49:40
yeah... nevermind. it was because of ochu. i restarted with ochu turned off and sephy is controllable.

and the scene didnt crash either.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-24 15:30:54
Oh, so that's what it was. No worries, it turned up the problem of Seph not having enough MaxHP in any case; I'll adjust the Materia he has.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: DLPB on 2014-11-24 16:24:39
Hmm Ochu has a control sep option also and it should work?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-24 22:32:25
Not sure, it's odd that the flags making Sephiroth invincible would be gone too. Maybe it's just a clash between the trainer and the mod?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-25 09:00:02
holy ferning crap dont go on the beach near junon

these mobs have got to be bugged..? i hacked my defenses to 255 and they still do 400 damage

all that hassle for a carbon bangle -_-
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: steelass117 on 2014-11-25 13:34:53
hmm that does sound odd  :o iv'e been having trouble with the first jenova fight XD it's a damn pain

 you can steal a carbon bangle from an enemy in the shinra tower ..i think.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-25 13:52:17
i mean i went through all the hassle of doing 1 damage at a time for like 30 turns because i didnt have anybody that could do less than that lol

just to find out all you get for morphing one is a carbon bangle
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: steelass117 on 2014-11-25 14:37:17
hmm i'm not sure then, that is loads of damage from a random encounter  :-o i only really have trouble with the bosses

when you hacked the game did you put up your magic defense as well ?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-25 15:08:34
The new enemy near Junon, Bludown, was bugged; it's stats seem to have reset to 255 (which is what a blank enemy has for default) after editing. I've fixed it up for the next patch and changed it's morph to a Four Slots. I'll be putting up the patch later today.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: steelass117 on 2014-11-25 15:23:13
quick work :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-25 17:00:27
That's the files updated. The scene hotfix repairs the Bludown enemy but I'd recommend giving the field hotfix patch a whirl too; I restructured some of the variables used later in the game.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: steelass117 on 2014-11-25 19:13:49
one question: what does the hero drink actually do now?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-26 05:37:16
Nothing at the moment; I might add a Wall + Haste effect to it for now (the only effect they have at present is to trigger AI in certain enemies). The original Hero Drinks are going into the mod at some point, but not until the NG+ is put in.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-26 06:25:22
hahahaha at the fortune telling machine in gold saucer

also im at the prison and i seem to remember usually having 2 enemy skill materias at this point. did i miss it or did you change its location

oh wow. i shoulda spent more time looking for rare encounters. what a nice morph i wish i knew existed 3 or 4 hours ago lol (crystal bangle)

finally got a stat source. i was wondering if you had removed all of them since i hadnt found any yet. or maybe the luck source you get in nibel is one you forgot to remove?

is the safe boss supposed to just end the battle with no results screen or did i mess something up
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-26 15:30:36
Someone finally found the fortune teller joke.

I removed all but one of the Enemy Skill Materia as a way of balancing them out.

Not all the Morphs are that good (for regular enemies it just tends to be either their item drop or steal) but some are worthwhile.

Yeah, I was supposed to remove all the sources from the game. I want to use them for team progression when the player hits max level in the New Game + campaign, dishing them out from enemies and the like.

And yeah, the Mansion Safe boss has a thing where he respawns if killed before he can transform. The only way to end the battle is to make him transform first then kill him. Both forms have different weapons to steal if I remember right.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-26 16:20:27
.. ah damn. i never tried stealing when it was in its last form. was too busy trying to not die.

i noticed the fort condor prizes changed and now im kicking myself for missing 2 of em. i bet you get some nice strawberries from it

when does the zolom stop flushing you away? im level 33 and still cant fight it
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-27 00:56:45
It was set to Lv.70; I'm going to give the thing an overhaul and a brand new item to drop when I get the next big update finished. He doesn't have Beta anymore, that was moved to Jemnezmy (Temple, one-time encounter) and Stilva (Gaea's Cliff). Pollensalta has it too in the Crater, in case it's missed.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Robgatti on 2014-11-28 01:26:45
Sega, where can I find the second Enemy Materia, I've already started a new run because I thought I had forgot it somewhere aha.

Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-28 03:54:16
I'm afraid there is no second E. Skill Materia, I removed all but the first one as a balance thing. I was going to make the 2nd and 3rd available later as part of extra stuff I'm putting into v1.3 of the mod.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-28 10:37:40
are your changes gonna require a game restart at some point?

im 20 hours in and starting to lose interest so i'd like to know
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-28 14:16:41
No, it's mostly stuff that would be accessed from Disc 3.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-29 15:07:13
where is the protect ring in the snowfield area i cant find it :S
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-29 16:26:37
I've not heard of there being a Protect Ring in the snowfield area. All the items I know of are:

-) Added Cut (NT Mod, changed to Sneak Attack): From the mountain area, use the top-right path
-) All Materia: Inside cave in the pseudo-world map snow area (the one where landmarks can be used)
-) Safety Bit: Inside central cave of Map, after passing the jumping block puzzle
-) Potion (NT Mod, changed to Ether): Screen before ice floe jumping puzzle
-) Elixir: Far left area of Map, inside a small cave
-) Mind Source (NT Mod, changed to T/S Bomb): Forest area

Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-11-29 16:54:51
sorry i meant gaea's cliff.

changelog lists it in gaea's cliff but i havent found it
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-11-29 17:14:07
I just checked the flevel and it looks like I swapped it out for a Stardust at some point but forgot to update the changelog. I better do a sweep of it to make sure everything's up to date. Sorry about that, bud.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-12-03 14:52:21
so i beat my first extra battle today.

talk about a pain in the ass boss. it's the upgraded sweeper of the one that attacks you when leaving midgar. backrows and  sadness and barriers oh my
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-03 15:18:12
Yeah, those Extra Battle guys were specced for end-game parties but now that the item requirements are gone for unlocking them, they're pretty much available once the Saucer re-opens. Remember to talk to the security guard for a Materia drop if you haven't already; I think it's Added Cut for beating the first guy.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-12-03 22:22:25
'Ello Chief! Finally got back into playing the mod last night, got to the airship, really enjoyed the new fight at Jenova-Death. \o/

Couple of things to report; a friend of mine has been routinely mastering Exit materias before I've even got my first Transform mastered, it seems it masters at about 7,500 AP despite displaying as 190k. (Haven't got one to 7.5k myself yet though.)

Also I'm trying to breed some chocobos, and the Vlakrados' don't have anything to steal. Am I supposed to get the 500GP reward from the Gold Saucer instead?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-03 22:51:25
I'll shut his Exit smuggling ring down so fast his head'll spin.

The Vlakarodos still has Carob nuts, just got to beat his head in and he'll drop it after battle. They can be obtained from the Saucer as well, but it's probably cheaper to just kill a Vlak for it. I watched about 1hr of the broadcast, planning to watch the rest later. Still getting some great notes from your run, just ironing out anything that looks annoying or needs tightening up.  By the by, hope you're feeling a bit more rested and comfortable now from that surgery, bud.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Rukenu on 2014-12-04 16:03:16
Hi Sega, actually im streaming your mod via Steam, if you want some feedback from it you're welcome, i have some minor visuals bugs but just because i'm on the steam version instead of the converter and i've changed some battles/field models.

Another thing it's when i want to upgrade from 1.2 to the hotfix you have on the first post, it makes the models back again in to the originals and it's a bit complicated unpack and pack again all the lgp files ^^.

My Steam Id it's Rukenu, as i said, you're welcome.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-04 16:29:21
Hey bud, I tracked down what I think is your Steam Profile but I can't get in to watch this stream of yours (assumong you are streaming, there's a button that says 'watch game' but doesn't seem to do anything).

I'm guessing you're using graphical mods? The patcher I use for the NT Mod has the drawback of overwriting all the files in the .lgp archives rather than just the ones it makes changes to. I don't have a background in computing so I have to rely on pre-made programs like Patchmaker for now. I scouted around a while back for a better alternative but didn't have much luck. If it ever appears on 7H then it'll likely be a lot easier.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Rukenu on 2014-12-04 18:36:55
You were on the stream so i realize that you resolve the problem, for another guys having the same problem, activate the beta mode of steam on the parameters tab.

It will be really good if you can manage the archives what replaces the patcher, anyway i did a backup of my data folder for futures versions o/.

By the way, i forgot that in some points of the early games, i had to play the mod in a vanilla version of the Steam game, without any mod except the yours, for example, in the motorbike minigame, and when i "get" Aeris from a Phoenix Dawn, in this one, i had to able Aeris on my Phs and party via Black Chocobo, i think it's a model problem, there istn any pop up from the error, just the screen turn black or freeze, then i have to stop the application, there is a windows with a "An unknow error has occurred" message, but as i said, i think it's about models problems.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-12-05 01:36:03
Quick bug report; the 3rd Battle Arena has a back-attack in it. I think the 4th fight, looks pretty weird and does some really confusing things to your row, hehe.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-05 02:04:52
It will be really good if you can manage the archives what replaces the patcher, anyway i did a backup of my data folder for futures versions o/.

By the way, i forgot that in some points of the early games, i had to play the mod in a vanilla version of the Steam game, without any mod except the yours, for example, in the motorbike minigame, and when i "get" Aeris from a Phoenix Dawn, in this one, i had to able Aeris on my Phs and party via Black Chocobo, i think it's a model problem, there istn any pop up from the error, just the screen turn black or freeze, then i have to stop the application, there is a windows with a "An unknow error has occurred" message, but as i said, i think it's about models problems.

Refining the patching process is definitely on the list, it'd save people who want to use other mods with NT a lot of hassle.

So the mini-bike game and certain scenes only function if you have the NT Mod installed and leave other graphical mods off? I'll check those two things you mentioned just in case they've become broken for any reason but it might be worth trying out those scenes with just the graphical mods installed and no NT Mod; that way you can determine if it's a clash between the mod and the graphical models or if it's a problem isolated to the graphical models themselves.

Quick bug report; the 3rd Battle Arena has a back-attack in it. I think the 4th fight, looks pretty weird and does some really confusing things to your row, hehe.

I must've used the wrong formation; I'll re-check them.

By the way, I noticed that a crash (an unhandled exception, worryingly) happened after the fight for the Alexander summon. That particular event where the party collapses rather than gets a game over if they lose that fight is actually in the default game (except few people see it because the default enemy guarding Alexander is a plain ol' Snow). I'd assumed it was fine because it's default script, but it looks like I need to check in on it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: PotatoHandle on 2014-12-05 02:08:06
Actually I've had a few crashes recently all after windowing out. So I doubt it's related to the Alexander fight, might be something funny with my install, but yeah, it's only been recently.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-05 04:03:59
If it's from windowing out, then it might be something to do with Steam. FF7 Steam is supposed to 'freeze' when you lose focus for the window and only resumes when the window is focused again (whereas in 1998 it just keeps playing; handy for not sitting through an FMV or long automated cut-scene).

As for what might be causing it, I'm not sure. I did some quick searching and found some people are saying that being opted in for the Steam Beta caused issues back when the game released; I imagine you've opted in for the Steam Beta to access Steam streams? It's a long-shot, but if being in the Steam Beta has interfered with the game before then it might be doing it again. I'm in the Beta too, so I'll do some testing with FF7 Steam to make sure it's stable.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-12-05 20:14:38
So strange, I'll try out the beta too, and ask Paranoid to the same, she's been playing it more of late. She has had similar out of window crashes too, but it was once or twice. I'll report if anything comes up.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-05 22:06:20
Cheers, bud. It's likely bad news either way; if it's an issue in the mod then it'll take some time to isolate. But if it's interference from the Steam Beta then that'll be an ongoing issue.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: jackrakan124 on 2014-12-08 06:48:07
I've come across an issue with the gongaga turks. for some reason there hp levels are very low (50ish).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-08 13:20:37
I remember testing the scene they appeared in, and when I'm doing field script tests around bosses I'll usually set their HP low. And more often than not, I'll forget to restore their HP. I'll update the hotfix patch for it (scene patch: 700KB).

Edit: That's the new Scene Hotfix uploaded.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-12-11 12:01:07
i read on your ID topic you have some menu to fight disc 1 bosses again

that in 1.2 or 1.3
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-11 19:33:28
It's in the current version, if you've reached the bottom of the North Crater and returned then the menu can be accessed through the trooper hanging around in the Chocobo Pen of the Highwind.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ohhhhyeahohhellyeahbaby on 2014-12-11 19:52:47
I began playing this mod after hearing a recommendation elsewhere. I just got to Nibelheim and things have been pretty smooth so far, I've only lost to that agitated mother bird on Mt. Corel. Overall, I think it's really good and is a very fresh take on an old game. Some thoughts:

- Some of the bosses just kind of go on forever. I realize that's probably what you were going for, Sega Chief, but at times it feels a little bit excessive. Much of the time it's not bad at all and feels just right, but fights like Jenova Vector, the third Guard Scorpion fight and the new Shinra guys in front of the Shinra mansion just seem excessively long. With Jenova, I understand that it's thematically appropriate given that it's supposed to be a big deal, but it took me about 20 minutes to kill the thing. It was fairly challenging and well thought out, but it just kind of went on so long that it became a bit old. Ditto with the Shinra guys I mentioned. Cave of the Gi boss took me about 30 minutes since I couldn't seem to kill either flame fast enough to avoid their healing. Probably could have done so if I approached it differently though.

- Random encounters on the other hand are almost universally good. Some actually seem to be a bit toned down from the previous game (weird little plant guys in the Junon forests) and when they're more challenging than before, it's never to excess. I really like how the more standardized elemental weaknesses makes coming up with strategies for specific monster formations both intuitive and satisfying.

- I really like the rebalanced magic and E. Skill. It's kind of amazing having Demi and Quake in particular actually be worth using. Same with the earlier summons too, really gives them some much need umph. I had a bit of trouble getting to level 2 spells (didn't get any until the end of the Corel prison sequence) but once I gained access to them things have been very smooth. Am I right in assuming that the AP inflation for materia leveling matters less the further in I get? I kind of assumed it was done to create a power curve, like what you did with EXP.

- Motor Drive's description of "Gotta go fast" is inspired.

- Just thinking ahead here: is Remove really worth going for? I completely forgot Exit materia is even a thing that exists in the game, so when I saw Yuffie had it I marveled at the 140000 or AP needed to learn it. I can't even recall it being good in the original game, did it get buffed in some way?

- Finally, is the game balanced around having up barriers at all times? In fights like the Shinra dudes at Nibelheim, it seems to be almost a straight-up requirement. Thinking about it, I imagine barriers really make this game a pain in the ass to balance given how effective they are.

Beyond that, I look forward to what comes ahead!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-12 00:09:06
Hey bud, cheers for the feedback. Certain boss fights are undergoing some work for v1.3 to make them less prone to getting players bogged down or to be more intuitive on the first attempt. What my testing wasn't able to take into account properly was my prior knowledge of the bosses I'd made, but now that I've got a good bit of feedback on them I can hopefully make them a little better.

For spells, I tried to aim for Level 2 to unlock roughly around Gongaga to Cosmo Canyon.  They'll actually prove fairly useful all the way up until Disc 3 if used with support Materia and magic-boosting equipment but E. Skills like Beta, Aqualung, and Trine can help bridge the gap between Level 2 and Level 3 spells if need be. Level 3 spells might not unlock until Disc 3, depending on whether AP-boosting equipment is used. However, Contain and some other high level stuff can be unlocked early if you can beat the Extra Battle bosses at the Gold Saucer (they're available when it re-opens but they're specced for end-game parties; no GP is needed to fight them though, and there's no Game Over to worry about).

As for Remove, it's apparently buggered so it'll master much sooner than displayed (less than 10k I think), unless the problem was isolated to one person's game but I doubt it. Remove itself is basically a 100% death spell which can be really handy for farming items, EXP, limits, etc. As far as mastering Materia goes, it's generally best to try and reach the North Crater on Disc 3; Movers give a tonne of AP and Magic Pots now only require an Ether instead of an Elixir.

And the way I did it was I used Barriers when speccing boss fights but not for random encounters. There may be some bosses that are a little too strong either because of a throw-back to the old 1.1 EXP curve or due to them using player-spells (which were buffed a bit). Barriers themselves are %-based damage reduction which is pretty tough to account for; especially when Back Row and Sadness come into it. One thing I should say is that some bosses going into Disc 2 use the Shield status; keep Debarrier handy, if a boss suddenly becomes immune to physical attacks and absorbs elemental magic then Shield is likely in effect (or use a fast ATB, that can cripple Shield fairly quickly).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-12-12 12:23:51
Tifa killed the helper soldiers in the whirlwind maze boss fight.

random selection limit breaks ftw
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-12 12:43:52
Yeah, you gotta watch out for that. Multi-target attacks like Summons will hit them too, and when they die the boss will start hitting your team with that extra attack (I forget the name).  They're actually there to hinder your team, rather than help.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: olearyf2525 on 2014-12-12 21:14:31
Hi Sega Chief I've really wanted to try your mod but I'm using 7th heaven for mods is there any way to get your mod to work? Also if I do get it to work when I'm done with it will I need to uninstall/ re-install everything if I want to use a different mod?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-12 21:25:43
You might be in luck, Alyza just put the IRO together for NT. If all goes well with my testing tonight (I can't test using 7H directly, so I've unpacked the IRO to test the files manually to make sure they're okay and up to date) then hopefully it'll be available in a few hours or so.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: olearyf2525 on 2014-12-13 10:15:10
You might be in luck, Alyza just put the IRO together for NT. If all goes well with my testing tonight (I can't test using 7H directly, so I've unpacked the IRO to test the files manually to make sure they're okay and up to date) then hopefully it'll be available in a few hours or so.
Oh awesome :D.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-13 13:04:48
That's the IRO file up and available for download from this thread's main page; if you run into problems like the wrong encounters loading up, crashes, etc. then let me know. Still quite new to IRO patches so there's always a chance I've done something wrong.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: genesis063 on 2014-12-17 02:42:01
Hey Sega sorry for the late congratulations for your new release.  Since you have the new IRO ready to go I will see about getting it and playing your mod soon.  Also if you like to include another extra hard boss you can include my new character Kyte for a cameo if you like.  You could use his ability to change his appearance and attack like Angeal did.  He actually is one of the basis for Kyte's power making him different from his big brother.  Not saying I am requesting him be in just some ideas if you like to update and spice it up.  Well anyway can't wait to check this one out bro.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-17 03:12:12
Cheers, bud. I'm actually trying to fill rosters for the Junon Leagues just now, so Kytes would be handy for that. Does he have a battle model already that I can use?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: genesis063 on 2014-12-17 22:21:12
You can take from mine it was intended to use Cloud's animations and have him use the other color uniforms.  I ended using red and use the soldiers helmet.  The reason I didn't use Cloud's was because I didn't know how to program the animations in like I see some people doing.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-17 22:42:46
The reason I didn't use Cloud's was because I didn't know how to program the animations in like I see some people doing.

You mean like which animations to set in Proud Clod when using a player character for an enemy? If that's the problem, I'll share my notes for it and the AI you should set for pre-battle (when they take damage, it soft-locks the game but setting their 'hurt' animation to their evasion one fixes it).

This is the AI:
Code: [Select]
12 2060
10 402C
80
60 01
90
12 2060
10 402A
80
60 01
90
12 2060
11 4088
80
60 08
90
12 2060
10 402A
80
60 01
90

Works for all player characters I've tested it with so far, including Sephiroth.

Animations (for attacks)
-) 14: Attack
-) 1B: Deathblow
-) 1E: Enemy Skill Spell

There are others, you can have every command but not sure if they're all functional when used as an enemy (and I've misplaced my notes).






Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: genesis063 on 2014-12-17 23:33:16
Actually as soon as I read this post I remembered you sent me a pm about it before too.  I am currently at work and can't take the time needed to tell what his full moveset would be like.  I'll pm you once I get off with how his should go.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2014-12-18 15:57:27
hey sega cheif

i can't wait for when you release 1.3 and NG+ for this mod soon

keep up the great work
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: CloudStrife668 on 2014-12-20 16:25:15
can someone send me a clean flevel.lgp please I can install the mod without one
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-21 00:40:23
The installer should be able to handle most patched flevels as well as the default one, unless there's something unusual going on. Is the installer not working with your current flevel?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Covarr on 2014-12-21 18:53:43
can someone send me a clean flevel.lgp please I can install the mod without one
For legal reasons, we cannot send unmodified game files from the original game. This is copyrighted data.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2014-12-22 23:11:48
@Sega Chief
I've been having a lot of fun with this mod so far. The emphasis on party roles, mobs, early materia access, unique armor/weapon properties, combat consumables, and scaling boss tactics bring back the nostalgia for me. It reminds me of the tight design decisions present in FF5, but at an even higher level thanks to normalizing values (equipment by tier, element overhaul, etc). Thank you for all your hard work. You rock.  :)

I've gotten to Rocket Town and there are a few questions I have regarding my experience up to this point.

******Spoilers!*******


Also, I, for one, like the HP values you've given to bosses so far. It rewards players for exploiting the roles to their maximum potential (Speed Support abusing items, Physical DPS abusing Throw or Deathblow, Magic DPS abusing reflect). For players that don't care to optimize everything, Slow + Haste see their maximum value here, ensuring that players of all skill levels advance through these fights at a good clip. Kudos to you for the early Time materia. *thumbs up*
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2014-12-22 23:23:45

  • Fort Condor is still a pain to get back to. Are there any plans to add in a way to reach the mini game expediently? Like via a Fort Condor runner in certain towns?


If Sega made a Fort Condor runner, I'd buy him tickets for a Distant Worlds show and buy him a couple of drinks  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Alby4t5 on 2014-12-22 23:33:23
Just thought I'd post this in the event it hasn't been taken care of yet or not, but in Cloud's flashback I can't play the piano. I read that it was a problem in 1.0, but I'm using version 1.2 and having the same issue. Is there a way around this or a way to fix it?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-22 23:47:11
@Sega Chief
I've been having a lot of fun with this mod so far. The emphasis on party roles, mobs, early materia access, unique armor/weapon properties, combat consumables, and scaling boss tactics bring back the nostalgia for me. It reminds me of the tight design decisions present in FF5, but at an even higher level thanks to normalizing values (equipment by tier, element overhaul, etc). Thank you for all your hard work. You rock.  :)

Thanks for taking the time to prepare that feedback, it's very encouraging that you feel the mod is as tight as FF5; I remember that game's fights challenging me the most in the FF series. I try to make everything useful and keep innate weaknesses in the enemies to exploit; there are still improvements to make but I'm going to keep at it until it's perfect.

About the list:
-) The first Beginner's Hall had a dialogue revision very early in the mod's development, but this hasn't been updated or brought across to the Respectable Inn yet (it's on the checklist for 1.3, though; I'm adding in as many tricks as possible or maybe some NT Boss info so that it's worth visiting).

-) The Gongaga Turks were left with low HP due to some debugging I was doing in that area recently and I forgot to restore their HP after fixing the issue; the current hotfix patch corrects this.

-) Limits can only be tweaked with an .exe patch; I've prepared an experimental .EXE for use with the NT Mod but it's strictly optional and will never be mandatory to play the mod due to clashes with other mods like Menu Overhaul that can arise. I tweaked Limits in this .exe, for instance making Braver stronger than Cross Slash and giving it a Debarrier effect while tweaking power, effects, etc. for the OP and weaker limits.

-) Adding the ability to see enemy buffs/debuffs to Sense would be great, but I'm not sure if it's feasible and would definitely require an .EXE modification of some kind. I could however add a pre-action AI to certain enemies not already using one that displays text detailing the Steal, Morph, and Drop of the enemy. Would be a bit of work, and I can't add that to bosses that already make use of pre-battle AI, but it could be an interesting addition to Sense or a command re-purposed to trigger this. I'll start some tests.

It's interesting that you've been using Throw, it doesn't seem to be used very often but it has a lot of potential. I've seen a lot of different strategies being used in tackling this mod's fights which makes me happy; I randomised the drops from bosses fought from Disc 1 to the beginning of Disc 2 as well so that different playthroughs might go differently based on what equipment a player got.

If Sega made a Fort Condor runner, I'd buy him tickets for a Distant Worlds show and buy him a couple of drinks  :mrgreen:

Consider it done, I'll make an NPC or perhaps assign a party member to handle Fort Condor return trips. Talk to them in town, and they'll transport you there. Expect that in v1.3, maybe a repeatable mini-game for Gold Saucer assuming it's all handled through the flevel.

Just thought I'd post this in the event it hasn't been taken care of yet or not, but in Cloud's flashback I can't play the piano. I read that it was a problem in 1.0, but I'm using version 1.2 and having the same issue. Is there a way around this or a way to fix it?

I'd forgotten that was an issue, I think it's because the field uses a separate 'Young Cloud' group during the flashback which is visually identical to 'real' Cloud (the current piano looks for party leader in the NT Mod, but Young Cloud likely doesn't have a handler added when he's 'party leader'; I'll repair it if that's the case).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2014-12-23 00:17:12
It's interesting that you've been using Throw, it doesn't seem to be used very often but it has a lot of potential. I've seen a lot of different strategies being used in tackling this mod's fights which makes me happy; I randomized the drops from bosses fought from Disc 1 to the beginning of Disc 2 as well so that different playthroughs might go differently based on what equipment a player got.
Every time I make the pilgrimage back to Fort Condor, I buy Striking Staff x9 and steal every Boomerang I can along the way as a sort of pick-me-up.  :P
With a Crystal Bangle + Power Wrist, throwing those weapons net a little under 1k damage up till Rocket Town without grinding anything. It's a great go-to materia for boss slaying and it was my primary method of attaining Vincent ASAP alongside several Right Arms. Also, thank you for that well-placed HP <-> MP materia. That last trek to Fort Condor before getting the Tiny Bronco was filled with Summon spam. I'm impressed at how well a "summoner" build works in your mod.

Oh, so that's why I got a Relic Ring just for beating your new and improved Aps. That's hilariously awesome. <3

EDIT: Four minor things came up on my way up to Gaea's Cliff.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-27 01:48:57
Just saw your edit there:

-) I wasn't able to give Ramuh Materia the Paralysis status through the Wall Market tool; I think doing so would require an .exe edit, but if it's not an option in the tool then there must be some obstacle to doing this.
-) For Gigas Armlet, I forgot to set the Armor slots to visually reflect the AP growth. Thing is, I can't remember if it's supposed to be None or changed to 1x. It'll be fixed for 1.3, I'll likely just give it AP growth.
-) I've heavily revised enemy drops, steals, and morphs for 1.3. 99% of mobs will have something: a drop, two common steals, a very rare steal, and a Morph item. Certain enemies don't follow this rule, such as areas where the player is locked in and has no access to a rest point (Reactor 1 & 5 for instance).
-) If EXP given has become 0, then it might be that you've hit Lv.40; regular enemies were set up with AI recently that will set EXP given to 0 if any characters present in the battle are Lv.40 or above. Certain repeatable bosses and the like will continue to give EXP up until lv.50-70 depending on how strong they are; it was a fail-safe added recently to help end-game stuff stay on a curve. If it proves unpopular, it'll be patched out but it should keep things interesting for thorough players who like to 100% the game.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: genesis063 on 2014-12-27 09:16:39
Hey bro just streamed your mod and got through to sector 5 reactor.  The scorpion boss just took me by surprise with the tail attack.  Can't wait to see what you have in store next.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2014-12-27 12:00:06
Ah, yeah, since I was the last one to post before, I decided to edit everything in to avoid double posting.

-) For Gigas Armlet, I forgot to set the Armor slots to visually reflect the AP growth. Thing is, I can't remember if it's supposed to be None or changed to 1x. It'll be fixed for 1.3, I'll likely just give it AP growth.

Personally, I like having access to armor that has slots with no materia growth. I do NOT want certain materia to reach the next level at the point I'm at (screw Mug). In fact, I bought an extra steal materia thinking I'd need the spare just in case one leveled up.  :-P
A lot of the materia I wanted to improve have already sat in the double growth slots anyway, and there are plenty of those.

-) If EXP given has become 0, then it might be that you've hit Lv.40; regular enemies were set up with AI recently that will set EXP given to 0 if any characters present in the battle are Lv.40 or above. Certain repeatable bosses and the like will continue to give EXP up until lv.50-70 depending on how strong they are; it was a fail-safe added recently to help end-game stuff stay on a curve. If it proves unpopular, it'll be patched out but it should keep things interesting for thorough players who like to 100% the game.
That explains everything. Cloud hit 40 just before Great Glacier. I had been cycling through the other party members, spending time to make sure I had stolen from and morphed every enemy at least once before abusing Exit (now with Sneak Attack) or the Summoner build to quickly take care of mobs, and everyone besides Cloud is 38 or below. I definitely like it now that I know what it is. There should be no issue with this fail-safe as I feel that many players that experiment with your mod know how to appreciate it. I do wish for something like adding a star next to the level (Chrono Trigger style) to denote a plateau in overall power, though I don't know how feasible that would be considering other menu mods. It would let players know what they've achieved while feeling like a pat on the back for players that have never encountered this system or are unfamiliar with how to interpret it. Additionally, having an NPC in the Respectable Inn explain these things would help round out the level of polish.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-27 14:03:00
Hey bro just streamed your mod and got through to sector 5 reactor.  The scorpion boss just took me by surprise with the tail attack.  Can't wait to see what you have in store next.

Thanks for giving the mod a shot, mind to save the game often though. Every boss has a new trick or two up their sleeve, the random enemies too.

Personally, I like having access to armor that has slots with no materia growth. I do NOT want certain materia to reach the next level at the point I'm at (screw Mug). In fact, I bought an extra steal materia thinking I'd need the spare just in case one leveled up.  :-P
A lot of the materia I wanted to improve have already sat in the double growth slots anyway, and there are plenty of those.

That explains everything. Cloud hit 40 just before Great Glacier. I had been cycling through the other party members, spending time to make sure I had stolen from and morphed every enemy at least once before abusing Exit (now with Sneak Attack) or the Summoner build to quickly take care of mobs, and everyone besides Cloud is 38 or below. I definitely like it now that I know what it is. There should be no issue with this fail-safe as I feel that many players that experiment with your mod know how to appreciate it. I do wish for something like adding a star next to the level (Chrono Trigger style) to denote a plateau in overall power, though I don't know how feasible that would be considering other menu mods. It would let players know what they've achieved while feeling like a pat on the back for players that have never encountered this system or are unfamiliar with how to interpret it. Additionally, having an NPC in the Respectable Inn explain these things would help round out the level of polish.

I guess a Zero growth armor needs to be in there somewhere. Gigas will be 0x then, like the original.

A star or similar might be out of the question, but I could fix up the Respectable Inn with all the information at least. I might need to change up the NPCs inside it though, so that people see they're new and become more likely to actually talk to them.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-12-27 14:39:54
Quote
I guess a Zero growth armor needs to be in there somewhere. Gigas will be 0x then, like the original.

please no. please please please no.

pick something else. tifa desperately needs that gigas bracelet to stay relevant. other than cheesing powersoul+ death sentence, which i hate doing because it's cheap as all fern, physicals at the time you get that are still dragging ass considerably, (limits notwithstanding)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-27 15:36:31
please no. please please please no.

pick something else. tifa desperately needs that gigas bracelet to stay relevant. other than cheesing powersoul+ death sentence, which i hate doing because it's cheap as all fern, physicals at the time you get that are still dragging ass considerably, (limits notwithstanding)

1x for Gigas it is then. I'll see what I can do for early weapons, but the physical formula is like a see-saw.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2014-12-27 18:17:55
hey, would it be poissable for you to add in omega weapon in this game
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2014-12-27 20:10:53
please no. please please please no.

pick something else. tifa desperately needs that gigas bracelet to stay relevant. other than cheesing powersoul+ death sentence, which i hate doing because it's cheap as all fern, physicals at the time you get that are still dragging ass considerably, (limits notwithstanding)

@selius
Why does Tifa need growth on Gigas to be relevant??? None of the materia she would want to use benefit from gaining AP or being linked to support materia (meaning Edincoat works perfectly if you need some kind of growth + strength combo), and they will level up stupidly fast once you reach disk 3 anyway (triple growth weapons, baby). I don't understand your logic at all, here. Halp.  :'(
You also definitely don't need Powersoul to do damage. She scales like a monster and so many aspects of the mod help facilitate that. Without going into specific limit, equipment, and materia combinations, you already have her fast strength growth (best in the game). You will do damage at a far faster rate than if you had death sentence + powersoul, from way before you even get that combo going, if you know what you're doing. Even a simple elemental materia will already have her dealing damage much faster and more efficiently than Aeris or Vincent with an appropriately leveled spell, and that's without any real set-up. There are also so many ways to abuse Motor Drive that it's mind boggling. Tifa is fine.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-27 21:40:46
hey, would it be poissable for you to add in omega weapon in this game

I guess so. Unless you mean the one that appeared in FF7 Dirge; that might be a bit...big. But you never know.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2014-12-28 12:57:35
@selius
Why does Tifa need growth on Gigas to be relevant???

because gigas has linked slots and edincoat doesnt. that 10 extra str counts for a lot. everything you're saying to do is something i've already tested.

and motor drive fernING SUCKS. fern giving haste to a boss. fern IT. i learned my lesson fighting the powersoul keeper when he kept double turning and i finally noticed that the damn weapon adds haste to the enemies it hits.

yes, i know she scales like a boss late game. but you can't change elemental materia mid battle, you can certainly change elemental spell casts.



Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-28 13:37:16
I think the trick with the Motordrive is that while it does inflict Haste on strike, it also gives +50 to Dex when equipped which is like having auto-haste except you can also still use Haste to make yourself even fasterer. Combine that with a Shinra Beta/Carbon Bangle and a ChocoFeather and you've got yourself the fastest thing alive. The Haste on strike is like a counter-balance to it, but there's ways to prevent it from being inflicted on an enemy. I'd personally use it for a support build rather than actually attacking with it though.

The Elemental in weapon can be quite effective because critical hits can double the damage again, but they're quite rigid because like you said you can't change them mid-battle which makes it hit & miss going through areas where enemies will have different elemental weaknesses. I consider that to be the balance with spells there; attacks are faster and have no cost, but they're not as versatile.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: seijuro on 2014-12-28 18:37:55
Hey Sega Chief, great job on the mod. Loving it.

I just installed the latest 7th Heaven and selected your New Threat mod under the drop down menu of the default Gameplay/Story menu they have built in.
I played it all yesterday and got up to the sector 5 reactor right before the boss. No problems, ran great.

Seconds ago, I just downloaded  your new 1.2 IRO file, deactivated the old New Threat mod under 7th Heaven's drop down menu and activated your new one.

Now, I opened up my save game file and I'm at sector 5, right about to fight 'Plasmabuster' (great boss btw) and guess what, it's Ultra Weapon at condor tracks! I tried activating/deactivating the old and new/etc. but it's always Ultra Weapon... and also the random battles sometimes crash.

Did I do something wrong?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-28 20:10:05
It sounds like the scene.bin and kernel have become desynched somehow, but they're synched in the folder I use to make the IRO. It might be an idea to right-click on the both NT IROs and uninstall them altogether before re-installing and activating the new one. They've maybe clashed with each other somehow, that would explain why the old one's scene + kernel has suddenly become desynched as well.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2014-12-28 20:33:11
Hey sega Chief

when i tried your Mod without using your iro file

the Graphics are fine at the start of the game

but when i try your iro file 7th heaven file at the start of the game

the Graphics goes all weird
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2014-12-29 00:49:46
Are you talking about that black background problem again on the second field screen? As far as I'm aware that's something that can pop up from time to time, even in the default Steam game. It should be harmless too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-12-29 14:36:17
It sounds like the scene.bin and kernel have become desynched somehow, but they're synched in the folder I use to make the IRO. It might be an idea to right-click on the both NT IROs and uninstall them altogether before re-installing and activating the new one. They've maybe clashed with each other somehow, that would explain why the old one's scene + kernel has suddenly become desynched as well.

There is no way two (or more) IROs can clash with each other so long as they are not activated simultaneously before launching the game. If seijuro says the Catalog version worked before but now does not when trying to activate it again, then something wonky is going wrong on their end that neither of us know about.

@seijuro - The Catalog version is the same as the current released files, so there was no need to change whatever you did.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2014-12-29 17:10:34
Hey sega chief

the black boarder only appears at the start of the game

and no where else in the game right

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: seijuro on 2014-12-29 18:54:55
There is no way two (or more) IROs can clash with each other so long as they are not activated simultaneously before launching the game. If seijuro says the Catalog version worked before but now does not when trying to activate it again, then something wonky is going wrong on their end that neither of us know about.

@seijuro - The Catalog version is the same as the current released files, so there was no need to change whatever you did.

Crap, you might be right. I was thinking the New Threat mod in the Catalog subscriptions was NOT updated (or didn't update), so I opted to update it myself through Sega Chief's IRO file. I probably screwed something up internally.  :'(
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-12-29 19:10:23
Check the 7H thread at the bottom of the OP for the Updates Report. If you downloaded the Catalog version before December 14th, uninstall it from 7H and redownload the new version. NT 1.2 is located in Gameplay - Difficulty and Story.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Celice on 2015-01-01 06:21:11
Hello, I am new to FFVII mods and am confused by this installation. The tutorial video does not explain what to do with the additional hotpatches and extra downloads. For example,

What is the IRO patch for? It has a more recent date than the main mod download.

Do we need to install the hotfix patch or the chibi patch after the main mod? The chibi mod for example tells me only to install it if I downloaded the main mod before October 15. So is it already integrated in the latest patch, and the download redundant? Or do I need to make sure I apply the patch after using the main installer?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-01 14:29:42
Righto, here's the skinny on it:

The Main Installer is just for playing the mod with any standard installation of FF7 (Steam, old 1998 PC, etc). It already includes the new field models by default, so no worries about using that separate patch for them. That was more for making those field models available to people if they wanted to use them but not the NT Mod; it's not a proper hotfix patch, strictly speaking (I'll revise the wording of it). The Main Installer is quite straightforward to use; just run it and direct it to the folder called 'data' in your FF7 folder.

The hotfix patches are specifically for fixing issues that arise with the Main Installer's files after it's release, the idea being that rather than having people download the entire main installer again to fix one file it would be better to have a series of smaller patches that fix what needs fixing. The Scene Hotfix patch, for instance, is only 700KB. These are used in exactly the same way as the Main Installer; just point to the data folder of FF7 and it should take care of the rest. The only Hotfix patch required at present is the Scene Hotfix; the other files are all up to date in the Main Installer.

Old hotfix patches, like the Flevel Hotfix, are for people who had the NT Mod installed before the Main Installer was updated. That's why they have the same date as the Main Installer (I'll restructure the lay-out to avoid confusion).

Finally, the IRO File is completely separate from the Main Installer and the hotfix patches. This is specifically for use with a mod-loader program called 7th Heaven (usually called 7H for short). It's a very versatile program that's great for loading different mods together and avoiding clashes between them. It also lets modders use and swap in different assets and affords greater freedom in what we can do with the game. It requires that users convert their copy of FF7 Steam though, which results in the loss of Steam saves and achievements. If you're interested in using different mods together though then it's worth checking out.


So to sum up:

-) Main Installer first

-) Hotfix patches after it (Scene Hotfix only at the moment)

-) Use the IRO only if you're playing FF7 through the 7H Mod-Loader

Any questions, or bug reports, just let me know.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2015-01-02 16:23:41
Hey Sega,

I was just wondering when I hit level 21 is meant to make the experience over 10,000 to get to level 22?

also how is 1.3 coming along?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-02 22:40:18
Hi bud, yeah that's the new EXP arc. Every ten or so levels there's a hard cap which is tough to break through with just random encounters (bosses tend to give enough to shear away most of it). The benefit of it though is that most players finish up Disc 2 at roughly Lv.40-50 which sorted out a big problem with balancing the game to fit with thorough players and rush players.

1.3 is steadily coming together. The new sidequest is coming along and it's functioning, got most of the new enemies made for it and all the revisions are in. Nothing major that would void previous playthroughs, just some general maintenance and tweaks. I'm also going to start implementing additional stuff for the 7H version because it can swap in files while the game is running.




Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Celice on 2015-01-03 04:22:51
Thanks for the reply. Just wanted to make sure before I started up. Mod is working fine now :)

However, I notice Cloud is a much darker purple now! Was this intended?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-03 12:38:07
Yeah, that's the new field models; they were made by Kalderasha to better resemble the promo art. He suggested I use them and I thought they looked quite swish.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ZaruenKosai on 2015-01-04 02:02:28
Firstly this mod looks quite interesting..   but i have some stuff in bootleg i like to use.


So just to be clear... If i want to install some other stuff from bootleg..

I install your mod first with the installer.
Install other stuff with bootleg ( avoiding game-play mods.)

curiously...  is the problem, with menu overhaul cleared up?

or is bootleg something you do not recommend using in conjuncture with your mod?



I know there was already a few posts about this sort of thing but it seems like a lot has been updated since those posts so its possible the answers may no longer be the same. I apologize if i'm just bringing up something that's been asked to death.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-04 02:50:41
I'm not sure if it is compatible with Bootleg, I've had people tell me that they weren't able to get the game working after installing NT and then applying Bootleg mods on top of it. If you do try it, then NT would likely have to be installed first otherwise it's installer will just overwrite whatever mods that Bootleg has put in (the NT installer is a rudimentary freeware program).

So like you said, it's:
-) Install the NT Mod first using the Main Installer.
-) Install the other stuff through Bootleg but avoid gameplay/flevel-altering mods (Hardcore mod, Aeris revival, Reunion, Nightmare, etc.)

Have you considered giving 7H, the new mod-loader program, a try? It's very good for running mods together (NT is currently supported in it, as is Menu Overhaul and various HD models, textures, etc.). It does require converting a Steam release, though.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Celice on 2015-01-04 04:01:59
Do you know which file the field models are in, so I can use the originals?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-04 11:18:23
All the field models are in the char.lgp. If you swap in a default char.lgp, the mod will still work but two oddities will appear involving Young Cid and a duplicate red-haired NPC. I replaced these two models with a new variant of Shinra soldier to appear in field screens but with a default char.lgp they'll instead appear as Young Cid and the red-haired NPC (the one who runs the weapon shop in Sector 7). That being said, they only appear in one or two field screens and it'll be fixed up for 1.3 because I recently figured out how to add new field models rather than replacing them.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-05 02:57:36
Commando: 1st will soft lock the game after making a basic attack. The model remains adjacent to its target after the attack and no further actions can be made while the game is expecting the enemy's action to resolve. This was tested on both Active and Wait. Occurs at any point going up to the Sister Ray.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-05 13:04:09
I've been trying to replicate that but not had much success, they've been attacking without issues on my end. If I can't isolate the problem then I'll just remove their 2x-Cut attack.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-05 21:34:49
The only other notable things are that Cloud has the Cover materia, his model is from whitERaven's model revision, Aeris is in the party (also whitERaven's model), and Red XIII has the pre-emptive and enemy away materia. Even then, this is a bit dubious since I've unequipped my materia and used PHS to switch party members to those without new models. I still get the same result, regardless of hit or miss, and I'm pretty sure the empty box isn't affecting this. I can't think of anything else that could cause this since I haven't activated additional mods except alternate music, models for several main characters, and world map textures. I doubt any of the sidequests I've done could cause this.

If this is only my problem, I don't think you should remove 2x-Cut from the enemy. I can circumvent the battle via Exit, so it's not a game-breaking issue on my end.

EDIT: Thank you, Sega Chief.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-05 22:17:41
No worries, I found the issue. One of the Commando enemies (there's two separate entries for them) had the wrong attack set in their AI. The new scene patch on the front page should fix the issue.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-01-05 22:37:34
Hey sega chief

i found another problem

on the front page of your post on here

it saids the hot patch has been updated on november 5th 2015

is it spose to say, jan 5th 2015

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: genesis063 on 2015-01-05 22:55:46
Also for those using my Sephiroth story mod install it on top of NT mod.  Avoid using the scene.bin ones as those will conflict and the flevel may have big conflicting issues.  As such I recommend using both of them through 7h if you can get it to work on your comp.  At some point I may go back and apply my changes with your with your approval of course to give better compatibility.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-05 23:47:26
Hey sega chief

i found another problem

on the front page of your post on here

it saids the hot patch has been updated on november 5th 2015

is it spose to say, jan 5th 2015

thanks

Ah, so it does; I'll change that. Cheers for letting me know, bud.

Also for those using my Sephiroth story mod install it on top of NT mod.  Avoid using the scene.bin ones as those will conflict and the flevel may have big conflicting issues.  As such I recommend using both of them through 7h if you can get it to work on your comp.

How extensive are your flevel edits? Even through 7H, it might not be possible to combine both mods very easily without running into some kind of problem at one point or another. I've had to make a lot of additions and adjustments to certain NT fields to make some things work so my worry is that these will be either overwritten (which could lead to soft-locks or the loss of NT content) or new dialogue/events added by your mod might not be displayed correctly.

At some point I may go back and apply my changes with your with your approval of course to give better compatibility.

What are you going to do exactly? Are you making adjustments to one of the mods so they can be used together or are you actually combining the two to make a unique mod?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: genesis063 on 2015-01-06 00:05:24
I edit just about every field in the flevel.  The only ones not touched are the fields and scenes left out do to animation incompatibility basically ones that could not be substituted like the cpr and the dolphin jump scene.  So the field of Cloud and Sephiroth are swapped and I replaced Cloud's head with the Soldier battle head resized.  For battles the scorpion is replaced with the red dragon.  I want to replace the third Jenova battle with the blue dragon.  Also Kyte replaces Jenova in the temple and crater.  So what I for going back and editing is just for adjustments to make them be able to run together.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-06 01:03:48
Alright, well if you need info about NT files I'll help where I can. I'm in the middle of getting 1.3 up and running so things are a bit up in the air at the moment.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: genesis063 on 2015-01-06 01:17:01
I feel you bro no worries.  There is no telling when i'll get around to it myself.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-08 01:16:51
Coin targets all allies and enemies. Was testing it out and nuked myself pretty handily. Was this intentional?

EDIT: Cool, thanks for the clarification. I was confused since the targeting never indicated it would hit the party and I wasn't sure if the flavor text meant you wanted to weaken the ability overall or ensure the damage was met both ways.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-08 01:22:13
You get what you pay for.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2015-01-09 09:55:13
Sega Chief I have just realised that you gave me thanks on your front page and I am actually touched, thanks man but honestly this is such a great mod I want to get as many people playing it as possible :)!

Progressed quite far in your mod now, at the keystone bit and now no fights will give me experience because Cloud has hit level 40 :( At what point will I start gaining experience again?

Out of interest when you fight Reno and Rude when they paralyse you down to two people and if you kill them at the same time are you meant to get no drops? I literally spent about 20 times reloading and killing them to always get nothing but the steals.

Also is Lost Number meant to just woosh me away like a speck of dust when i kill it or is it possible to actually kill it?

And as always how is 1.3 coming along? Also any idea when you will update your changes because it is really hard for me to tell when I'm missing a good item or not as I'm following the normal guide whilst playing this to track the changes :)

P.S. Loved the fight outside the Shinra Mansion, was quite funny :P
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-09 13:18:36
Hey bud, I noticed you'd been helping people out with 7H installations and mod compatibility and I appreciated the assistance. I don't usually run the game with mods like that installed so someone lending a hand with that is always appreciated.

Certain Disc 2 bosses give EXP past Lv.40 (and these can be re-fought on Disc 3 whenever you want), but every Extra Battle, Lv.4 Limit boss, and other additional boss will give EXP past Lv.40. This is being revised for 1.3, where later Disc 2 enemies will be raised up to give EXP up to Lv.50 instead. The majority of players finish below Lv.50 so I think that might be a better cap to set. I'm also going to set Crater enemies to give EXP up to Lv.60.

Regarding the Turks, and enemies in general, remember that if you steal an item from an enemy, they will no longer be able to drop an item.

Lost Number is a remnant from older versions where the transformation trigger was a lot more complicated. I kept it that way basically because it was a sneaky counter to poison strategies that are usually employed against Lost Number to prevent him transforming...except someone got around it by hitting him while he was close to death from poison, triggering the transform, and then finishing him off on the next attack. I've got a replacement for the AI sorted out, should be quite interesting.

But speaking of 1.3, it's slowly coming together but the keyword there is slowly. There's a lot of AI kinks to iron out and I also need to do a test playthrough to get save files and unearth any glitches/problems which'll take me a couple of days. There'll be a new ReadMe and Changes list released with 1.3, to replace the not so great current documents. I've also re-organised Beginner's Hall & Respectable Inn for useful tutorials and what-not, just in case people drop in on it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-09 18:50:43
Hey Sega Chief I absolutely love this mod it turned a boring month into good fun. I have a couple questions and concerns I was hoping you'd be able to provide some insight on.

Enemy Skill Locations
Some things have changed around completely which is fine but I'm totally lost sometimes. I managed to snag Beta in Temple but I haven't been able to find Aqualung (a monster that normally spawns at the wutai mountain area has it according to battle square but I can't find this monster anywhere) Meanwhile I couldn't get Godo to use Trine but got it from some dogs in return to Midgar tunnels. Manipulated Beach Plugs i try to have them use Big Guard on me but it doesn't take either.

Lack of a Readme? Its been being updated for a while I guess it's not ready yet but some stuff seriously confused me before I started watching let's plays of the mod.

Missing Materia
I am a complete FF7 rookie in that I had never heard of or realized backrow sadness strats or knew of the w-item glitch or explosively powerful endgame materia combos so pardon if Im wondering where all my fun toys are.

Made it to bottom of crater, have only done Cid's optional boss. Missing the following not counting materia caves (I know mega all is in materia cave where hp-mp should be)
Contain Full Cure Shield Ultima
Double Cut, W-Magic, W-Summon, W-Item,
Only have found 1 Enemy Skill
Added Cut, Counter, Final Attack, Long Range
Speed Plus, HP Plus, Luck Plus, Magic Plus

Specifically the only ones I care about are Contain and Double Cut

Difficulty of Turks: You only get 1 added effect materia to slot a mystify into and it takes a damn long time to level up, why so much confusion and berserk?

Endgame XP Issues: you stop gaining XP at certain intervals if one character in the party caps out so it makes swapping them around to hit the cap difficult, esp since you cant change your party leader or use PHS at the bottom of the northern crater (It forces you back to cloud if you try to move to party select area)

Why does the endgame stuff seem so hard? I'm level 50 have 3000 HP And do 1000 physical attacks and 3000 with aeris using Comet (9999 with a couple summons sometimes), Why are all the lets plays abusing planet protector and coin, I wasn't able to really get either until disc2 and even then you (rightfully) decided to nerf coin, but you made it so you had to use aeries to use it which is kind of odd, can you try to de incentive planet protector?

King Bub' and his minions are an extremely weird fight I cannot get past for the life of me, I understand the lucky 7's but I dont understand the random healing and invulnerability, why don't they glow yellow when peerless? Is there a trick I'm missing to this?

Also a strange bug best I can explain it is, Tifa + Fury Brand + Level 3 Limit + Battle Square Special battle = Zero Limit guage with infinitely avaialable limit breaks.
Coin and Planet Protector

PS I had to hack in ribbons after spending a couple hours wiping to the final turk fight, did you change ribbon so you cant get regen/haste or is that vanilla

Sorry for the long post. thanks!

Edit: Thank you for all of the tongue in cheek humor, esp. for all the chests and dummied out items and the commandos. I nearly screamed when I did the Jenova WAR Fight also. Top Notch!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-09 20:09:00
@RedManMark86 You rock. Keep it up.

@cicadian See below.
********SPOILERS**********

Enemy Skill Locations
Manipulated Beach Plugs i try to have them use Big Guard on me but it doesn't take either.

My memory is fuzzy on how I snagged Big Guard. If Manipulate doesn't work, try confusion or Reflect. This'll be easier for me to answer if you just say what E Skills you have.

Missing Materia
Contain Full Cure Shield Ultima
Double Cut, W-Magic, W-Summon, W-Item,
Only have found 1 Enemy Skill
Added Cut, Counter, Final Attack, Long Range
Speed Plus, HP Plus, Luck Plus, Magic Plus
Full Cure and Added Cut are found in the first few extra battles. Counterattack is found in the chocobo races.

Difficulty of Turks: You only get 1 added effect materia to slot a mystify into and it takes a damn long time to level up, why so much confusion and berserk?
Spam Resist or Vaccine if status ailments become an issue. Most fights that revolve around status immunities can be won with just that.

Why does the endgame stuff seem so hard? I'm level 50 have 3000 HP And do 1000 physical attacks and 3000 with aeris using Comet (9999 with a couple summons sometimes), Why are all the lets plays abusing planet protector and coin, I wasn't able to really get either until disc2 and even then you (rightfully) decided to nerf coin, but you made it so you had to use aeries to use it which is kind of odd, can you try to de incentive planet protector?
You can get by without doing that. You just need to set up a good tank. Well, except against Zack. That needs a different strat. I'm impressed with Planet Protector + Coin, though. I knew that might be the issue, but I just couldn't get the time to grind for that strat (her limit requirements are pretty high and work + AGDQ2015 doesn't leave me with much time). Coin, as is, should only be used if you're low on MP, facing a lot of enemies, and need a 1000 damage spread. Conceivably, you could also trigger Counter Magic Cure or Final Attack Life, but that's still more grinding. Otherwise, yeah, you'd need to abuse that.

King Bub' and his minions are an extremely weird fight I cannot get past for the life of me, I understand the lucky 7's but I dont understand the random healing and invulnerability, why don't they glow yellow when peerless? Is there a trick I'm missing to this?
Certain textures and effects don't load due to the mods you put on. To beat King Bub', you may just want to bypass the minions like I did by throwing stuff at him till you win. 8 inch canon also works. Just make sure you slow the minions so you have a chance.
EDIT: Woops, turns out it's Shield, which has no visual cue.

Also a strange bug best I can explain it is, Tifa + Fury Brand + Level 3 Limit + Battle Square Special battle = Zero Limit guage with infinitely avaialable limit breaks.
Happens without Fury Brand. Also, Special Arena will crash if you activate Vincent's Chaos limit. Be warned.

PS I had to hack in ribbons after spending a couple hours wiping to the final turk fight, did you change ribbon so you cant get regen/haste or is that vanilla
You can just equip peace rings and casts Resist on the Turks. If you use Resist on yourself (which is what I assume Ribbon does now, since I don't have any Ribbons) you can bypass the lack of regen if you have a good healer, and haste if you equip +Dex armor/accessories (casting haste beforehand or equipping Sprint Shoes also works). The Turk fight is a battle of attrition that you're pretty much guaranteed to win if you do this.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-09 20:30:12
(Looks like I spent so long typing this that Bowser beat me to it :I)

Hi bud, glad you enjoyed the mod but apologies for causing some confusion during your playthrough. I did have a ReadMe at one point documenting some of the changes so people could pin-point the new locations for things faster but it wasn't very concise and it's likely out of date now (assuming it's still up, I think I took it down). Thing is, I can't update it properly until 1.3 of the mod is out as I'll be making lots of tweaks. That's currently in the works, but I still need time to finalise the update.

[Enemy Skills]
Beta, Aqualung, and Trine were a serious problem in that they're much stronger than Fire2, Ice2, etc. but can be obtained before or round about the time when these spells become available. To counter that without altering these Skills too much, I moved them to new enemies located in places where I felt they'd be most useful to give the player a boost to their magic arsenal while they work toward Fire3, etc.

Aqualung is with an enemy called Garuda on Da Chao, an area inside Wutai. These guys will use Aqualung after 4-5 of their turns have elapsed (make sure to have protection like Reflect, a Typhoon Ring, or MBarrier just in case).

Trine is supposed to be available from a new enemy called Thundercracker on Mt. Nibel (the path areas), but it looks like I've made a mistake and it doesn't currently use this Skill. This'll be fixed for 1.3.

Big Guard should be learned as normal, though. I'll have to investigate that one, sounds like a bug or an oversight on my part.


[Missing Materia]
First off, the enemies in the mod weren't specced with either Sadness or back-row strategies in mind; story bosses were tested while using Barrier and MBarrier. The idea was that the defensive set-ups usually adopted for hard-type mods wouldn't be necessary here, so that players could get inventive and try out different things. That being said, small tweaks may have knocked this out of balance a bit; I'm currently midway through a test-play of 1.3 to address any issues that have popped up due to these tweaks and further refine enemy strength, etc.

As for the missing Materia, most of these are all won from the Extra Battle in Battle Square. On Disc 2, when Cloud re-joins the party, two new NPCs will appear in the Gold Saucer's Battle Square. One of these NPCs (a male Gold Saucer attendant) has a menu of ten new bosses to fight, while the other (a security man in a navy uniform) gives the player Materia rewards depending on which of these bosses have been beaten:

Page 1
Barbariccia GT: Added Cut
Bomb King: Full Cure
Gil Turtle: Contain
Variablis: Shield
Love Buster: Ultima

Page 2
Mystery Tank: W-Summon
Abyss: W-Magic
Nyctalopian Dragon: Double-Cut
Tyrant: Command Counter
??????: W-Item

Final Attack is still won through the Special Battle, accessed through regular Battle Square. Special Battle becomes available when the player has reached the bottom of North Cave and returned (this sets the Game Moment to 1998, which I've used as a trigger to unlock certain end-game stuff). The attendant should trigger some dialogue about the Special Battle when you talk to her, and from then on you'll have the option to participate in Regular Battle or Special Battle. Note that it costs 10GP to fight in Special Battle.

Long Range, HP Plus, Speed Plus, Magic Plus, and Luck Plus are currently absent from the game, as are Sources. I'm planning to use these as pick-ups for New Game+ progression. There's also only one Enemy Skill Materia available in the entire game; this has proved to be a great balance for E. Skills against regular spell Materia so there's no plan to add more in the future.

[Turks & Berserk/Confusion]
A running theme with Turks fights is the use of Berserk and Confusion, usually with some other surprise up their sleeve. However, I've noticed recently that people are having trouble mustering status defence against Berserk and Confusion. My guess is that I've removed or changed an important Peace Ring drop or similar and this has had the knock-on effect of leaving players particularly exposed to these kinds of attacks. I'm planning to make at least one Peace Ring 'unmissable' so that it makes the Turks & Jenova WAR fights closer to their intended difficulty.

[EXP Caps]
I added a Lv.40 cap to the majority of regular enemies (where the actual cap is Lv.70) but this hasn't proved to be a popular idea. I think a problem is that the mod originally was supposed to gun for fast gameplay, and to take as much edge out of grinding as possible. What I'll do is set up North Cave as a very lucrative zone for getting EXP to hit Lv.60, then the remaining ten levels can come from the extra end-game bosses. I'll also lift that Lv.40 cap to Lv.50 across the board; I think that'll work out better.

[End-game difficulty]
I think this comes back to tweaks having a knock-on effect for other things, and is one of the reasons I'm currently doing a full test-play of 1.3 so that all the imbalances that have appeared can be corrected. I've also made enhancements to the majority of end-game bosses for 1.3, so that they're less RNG-based (attack patterns), have a greater variety of weaker attacks (to reduce spam of their stronger abilities), and stat tweaks.

King Bub is a weird fight, but it was recently changed from Peerless to Shield which (unfortunately) has no visual indicator. This was a quickfix to prevent a stalemate of Peerless, but I've since found a way to de-fang Peerless and make it susceptible to Debarrier and Dispel which is a game-changer. As for beating this guy, you should use Debarrier+All to get rid of Shield and then smack the Royal Guard with any attack that hits all targets to get rid of the 7777's effect. Alternatively, you could heal them first (to remove 7777's) and then use Debarrier+All to start attacking.

[Infinite Limits D:]
That sounds like a crazy bug; hopefully it's limited to Special Battle only. Not 100% sure I'd be able to fix it if that was the case (Battle Square is a bit...odd when there's three people fighting in it instead of just one) but I'm fine with it because it sounds awesome.

As for Ribbons, I took a leaf out of the Hardcore mod's book and set it up so that Ribbon prevent all statuses, including good ones. It always made me think twice before equipping it when playing the HC Mod.

Sorry for the long post. thanks!

Sorry for the long reply :p Thanks for the feedback, bud.

@Bowser, that's a pain that Vincent causes a crash in Special Battle with Chaos. If that's the case and I can't fix it then I might need to either re-spec Special Battle for a solo character or make some special work-around for it. I'd better test Vincent's Chaos with regular battle as well though, just in case.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-09 21:06:22
ah thank you and bowser for the wonderful long and detailed posts, i feel a lot better about picking this mod back up this week now that i know where to go form here
sorry if my post was a little hard to read i was pretty tired, this girl's been doing too much AP grinding! I really have no complaints there's just too much fun to be had. keep it up and I look forward to 1.3
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-10 00:52:24
@cicadian NP. Good luck.

Taking a break from endgame. I wanted to throw out a few requests. These might not work out, though, especially since I have no clue what changes will be in v1.3 and what might be feasible given how time intensive it is to implement certain changes.

In no particular order:

That's all I got. Thanks for your time.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-10 01:24:19
Alright, let's see:

-) An auto-regen accessory is possible, but not easy to implement. I try to keep hard hacks out of the mod, or at the very least make them optional. That being said, I could maybe set something up through the character AI. It depends on what triggers I can get the game to recognize through the accessory's available equip effects (and which can't be triggered through other means).

-) I could add character AI that responds to Berserk. A risk is that the spell needs to be equipped before they can actually be used, but if these commands can be activated through AI without the need of Materia then a pseudo-'Rage' system would be feasible. I've an idea for getting the game to activate this Rage state only when a certain accessory is equipped, so this could work out...but only if spells can be used from AI without the need of Materia.

-) A Holy-element weapon would be handy, yeah. As far as spells go, I've replaced the Roulette Enemy Skill with a new one called 'Alpha' that's learned from the Alpha Zolom. It has a hefty base-power on it, and should be a decent end-game Holy spell along with Alexander. I'll see about adding an innately Holy-element weapon or two as well.

-) I could set up a modified shop but it would need to be used with the NT Mod's custom (and optional) .EXE (which is currently being tested and tweaked in a playthrough). I could set up an impromptu 'shop' that sells these items in a way similar to how you can buy GP at Gold Saucer from that dude; this way, the items can be acquired through shopping even without the .exe patch.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Vgr on 2015-01-10 01:35:26
Pretty sure AI doesn't care which materias are equipped. I saw somewhere that Sephiroth could use his magics without the Materia equipped. Don't remember where.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-10 01:42:06
That's great news if that's the case. An accessory that has the character spit out random attacks would be quite interesting, sort of like a Berserk but for magic and maybe enemy attacks. I'll experiment with it tomorrow after work; thanks for the info.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-10 02:05:00
I could set up an impromptu 'shop' that sells these items in a way similar to how you can buy GP at Gold Saucer from that dude; this way, the items can be acquired through shopping even without the .exe patch.

That would be excellent. I agree with trying to keep the .exe optional, so rock on.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-10 16:23:59
Hey quick question about Gil Turtle, he casts something pretty nasty after he drains my mana, and magic hammer does 0mp damage to him, should I be going into this fight with no mana or try to dump it all before he drains it himself?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-10 16:56:01
Gil Turtle basically tries to steal your MP which allows him to cast his super-strong attacks. Keeping your MP low while blitzing his is the key to this one; Aeris has a weapon called Wizer Staff that can attack MP directly (but has a low base power). If you boost up her STR with things like a Gigas Armlet, Earth+Elemental (in the weapon), and a Champion Belt you could maybe take out his MP that way, and make use of Ghost Hands that can be obtained from the Rilfsak (flying leaf enemy) in the Ancient Forest through stealing.

Also, the Sleep status should work against Gil Turtle; that can slow him down immensely.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-10 17:14:19
thanks for this, i just find it weird that he uses savings jar and takes only 27mp from me through the entire fight then can cause a market crash, i'm currently trying lucky pill + hero drink II + yellow wave and I'll try what you said if that doesn't work.

By the way, where can I get more Yellow Wave items? I don't like using one off items if I can't help it!
EDIT: Gil Turtle is causing a market crash after absorbing ZERO MP
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-10 19:55:27
@cicadian Ah, so you've hit the same problem as I have. You will have to abuse Sadness + Wall on your tank to survive KotR or make use of Shield/Gospel Spark. Follow up with Life + All. To make things easier, you can also take in Final Attack + Life, but that's your call.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-10 20:12:49
I think it's a non issue maybe? I tried the MP damaging weapon Aeris has instead of magic hammer (which does 0 MP damage) and he couldnt do the market crash after trying to hoard savings. I think he must start with a base MP "savings" that is already above what I assume is uh... 250 MP to cast
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-10 21:59:36
Yeah, he starts with 999MP and he shouldn't be able to start using Market Crash until he's below 1/2HP.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-10 22:46:06
last question hehe
Nyctalopian Dragon Meltdown is knocking out all 3 party members from combat, intended? What does Cyberdyne Ray do, sometimes it damages sometimes not but it never shows damage numbers?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-10 23:34:21
Meltdown effectively ends the fight, to prevent it try hitting Nycta with the Slow status. This'll prompt him to use Reactor Cooldown which erases Slow but also ends the countdown. As for Cyberdyne, it is a bit erratic with the way it behaves but I like the animation too much to change it  :-X
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-11 22:22:09
Some bugs to report

Christopher and Gighee game soft locks in combat if you kill Gighee and let Christopher sit around too long, this may be in base game?

Tifa sidequest? With or without Tifa as party leader and after talking to New Threat crewman I have been to every screen in Nibelheim/Shinra Mansion/Mt. Nibel/Mt. Nibel Reactor and seen no bossfight or sidequest

Junon Leagues softlock: Cleared every encounter in Amateur Junon League with Tifa (party leader) Game was stuck at this screen after the victors of the last round (Kotch) Wave 2 were announced.
(http://i.imgur.com/FMq9pVv.jpg)

Probably not a bug but I haven't figured out the mechanics yet: Love buster casting perma-confusion (Spinning corpses lol) on party members and you can give them commands but they always use them on opposite targets (Ah! Can I target opposite for desired effect? Or is it a bug.)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-11 22:25:18
Probably not a bug but I haven't figured out the mechanics yet: Love buster casting perma-confusion (Spinning corpses lol) on party members and you can give them commands but they always use them on opposite targets (Ah! Can I target opposite for desired effect? Or is it a bug.)
You need to survive without worrying about status immunity, so set up an elemental attack and absorb strat for safety. After that, equip your best equipment for damage and bum rush Love Buster with your strongest materia combinations or limit breaks. Blow everything. Mime your strongest stuff if you have to. Don't cast any buffs, just smash its face immediately. Hold nothing back.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-11 23:19:38
I'll see about getting those bugs fixed. I renovated the variables used by the mod a few weeks ago and it's likely I've missed one somewhere for the Junon Leagues. As for Gighee + Christopher, I fixed that recently (he was trying to use Cure2 instead of Cure3) but not sure if I added it to the hotfix patch yet. I'll update it just to be sure.

Love Buster is a tad unusual. I was messing around with status-defence ignoring attacks. They usually cause some odd effects.

Edit: Ah, plain forgot. I have to keep the .IRO up to date now as well. That definitely doesn't have the Christopher AI fix.

Edit2: Think I found the issue, about to fix it. Also forgot to respond to the Tifa Lv.4 Limit thing. It should be triggered by Tifa playing the piano, but there was a different problem in that area recently that's likely interfered with it. I'll get it fixed up, test it out, and make an update.

Edit3: The new files are currently being uploaded. It'll be the last large-scale update for v1.2 of the mod (hotfixes will still be maintained if any soft-locks or similar pop up) before v1.3 replaces it. I tested out Junon Leagues for a win/lose result and it seems to be okay now; I think the issue was that a loop could occur if the last bits of script for Wave 2 finished at a certain time during another script's cycle.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-12 02:00:17
@Sega Chief
I recall in your change log for v1.2 that you re-purposed the joke weapons into kills = power. Tried testing the damage for Nailed Bat using kill values between 768 and 5000 via save editor and there doesn't seem to be any change. Was wondering if you scrapped that idea or if it's using a different calculation from the old Death Penalty.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-12 02:33:37
Yeah, it was found that they didn't work properly. I've not decided what to do with them for 1.3; default option is to make them high-attack like they are in the vanilla game but they could also be given some kind of theme, maybe Holy-element, an early triple AP weapon with one slot, something like that to make them not just stand out but be viable options too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-12 02:59:16
Yeah, it was found that they didn't work properly. I've not decided what to do with them for 1.3; default option is to make them high-attack like they are in the vanilla game but they could also be given some kind of theme, maybe Holy-element, an early triple AP weapon with one slot, something like that to make them not just stand out but be viable options too.
Actually, as it is, it still uses a damage calculation that affects Morph. When I first got the Nailed Bat, I noticed the Morph damage was very good. If you keep it like that, it'll see much use throughout later versions of the mod for purposes of Morphing bosses and such. I've also been meaning to ask you if an MP Attack weapon or materia was possible, something like what's seen in older FF games or in FF9. If you could apply that to the joke weapons, maybe with additional caveats, that would be amazing.

I personally think that an early triple AP slot would be redundant. The reward for players willing to stick to double AP weapons is already impressive.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-12 03:44:37
I did not know that they ignored Morph's damage reduction, that's a great theme for those weapons. I'll keep them as is.

There's already the Wizer Staff and Magic Hammer for damaging MP, but I could add a third option somewhere; maybe another spell and weapon for it. I'll boost up the Ghost Hands a bit too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-12 04:31:10
There's already the Wizer Staff and Magic Hammer for damaging MP, but I could add a third option somewhere; maybe another spell and weapon for it. I'll boost up the Ghost Hands a bit too.
Whoops! I should have clarified. MP Attack in FF5 and 6 caused your attacks to become automatic crits at the expense of 10-20 MP per attack (Rune Axe, Rune Blade, Organix, Ragnarok, Light Bringer, Final Trump, and Punisher). MP Attack in FF9 caused your basic attack to expend 1/8 your max MP to deal 50% extra damage on the attack.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-12 04:42:22
Ah, right; could be tough, likely needs a hard-hack or character AI that can track your equipped weapon somehow.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-12 19:17:25
I updated this morning and no problems yet Haven't checked out Tifas LB quest, Junon League soft locking less, though It seems to happen if I spam START as fast as possible.

Oh yeah, that uh.. Brawler Rank fight with the Christopher and Gighee clone, Kill the horse first and after a few turns the person sits there and does nothing soft locking the game.
If it helps I remember seeing him use 3 attacks, a regular hit, regen, and deathblow

this is kind of fun bug testing
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-12 19:31:38
Heh, well I copied over Christopher and Gighee's AI to those two enemies. So I guess it stands to reason that the same problem would be there  :-X

As far as the Junon Leagues go, I reckon it's because the Main script that handles the button prompts runs on a loop in the background while the rest of the scenes play out (a variable flips which temporarily disables the commands). But if someone were mashing Start then I guess it can get 'caught' while it's transitioning over, even if it is just a split second. I'll experiment with some ways to buffer it and prevent it from happening.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-14 14:46:28
Was trying out Yuffie's sidequest, died, reloaded, left with this...
My save was outside of Wutai, can I fix this with a save editor?
(http://i.imgur.com/N74YyD8.jpg)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-14 15:18:22
That's the save problem that can happen with different party leaders on the world map. Let's say you have Tifa as party leader, but Cloud is also in the party, his model will display on the world map. However, if you open the Menu and PHS him out, then save the game (without closing the menu), the game will load you at x0, y0 coords when you next load that save file because Cloud is no longer present when it recalls his last world map position for the save file.

If you add Cloud back into the party via a save editor, then it should fix the problem and you'll be loaded at the correct coords when loading the file. Otherwise, setting your position onto a Highwind screen and then talking to the pilot will put you in the Highwind for the world map so you can 'escape' the x0, y0. I've an idea for a fix which involves 'locking' Cloud and Tifa in the PHS if either Tifa or Cid are party leader, but it's not implemented yet.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-14 20:05:44
It's better installing this mod before or after Reunion if I want both ?
Because I just installed NT Mod afrter Reunion and it owerwrited all the Reunion benefits( models, traductions, etc.. )
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-14 21:12:35
It's better to install NT first; it overwrites files rather than just inserts them. Then patch Reunion on top of it, and hope for the best.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-01-14 21:38:44
@ManuBBXX
Whenever R02 comes out, it'll be packaged with its own difficulty mod, so you'll have to be mindful of that as that will alter the battle.lgp file in a way that will most likely conflict with NT.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-14 21:50:49
Thanks Sega chief, I installed Reunion after NT and it appears to be ok.
I just fought the first 2 shinra soldiers, but is it normal they hit at 7 and die with just one sword hit ?
So okay, I used to playhardcore mod, but it seems as easy as original game.  :o
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-01-14 22:25:26
The Reunion and New Threat both alter the flevel.lgp, so I image there's going to be issues using installers regardless of the order they are installed. You may have fought one battle, but perhaps it's because one of the mods didn't alter that scene so it'll turn out okay. I can't image you'll run through the entire game without hitting any scenes that aren't altered by both.

If you wind up with problems later on, using 7H for at least one of them will be the only option since it's able to chunk the flevel into separate parts that won't interfere with each other.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-14 22:51:14
Thank you EQ2Alyza !
So if i run Reunion, and then play NT mod loaded by 7H it's gonna be ok ?
For the yarlson field textures, can I put them in mod/Reunion/field folder, or I have to load it with 7H too ?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-14 23:28:32
The very first enemies in the game are 'MP Trainees'; they're identical to the MP enemy encountered everywhere else in the Reactor but have less HP so that they die in one-hit. Damage-wise, they hit for 23 on a front row character, and about 12 on a back row character, maybe a little less with their baton attack. This mod was specced so that hanging back in the back row with Sadness on isn't (hopefully) required. Because of that, you can hit harder with physical attacks, use Limits more often, and play more aggressively which makes play a fair bit faster.

But like Alyza said, there'll be clashes sooner or later; 7H is a safe way to combine mods and avoid those clashes. And like Bowser said, there's also going to be a difficulty mod attached to Reunion at some point which will definitely be incompatible with other mods that alter the scene and/or kernel.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-01-15 05:37:42
Thank you EQ2Alyza !
So if i run Reunion, and then play NT mod loaded by 7H it's gonna be ok ?
For the yarlson field textures, can I put them in mod/Reunion/field folder, or I have to load it with 7H too ?

For 7H we have come to the agreement to call the folder for textures simply 'Textures'. All the abstract names has ended into manual editing anyway. So Dan hasn't made his opinion on it I think he will still change the path to Reunion in the next release. Rename it simply to Textures and place all your files you want in it. I prefer to have them installed directly there instead to use them through 7H.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-15 07:42:29
Okay, so if I understand well( and I'm not sure cause my bad english comprehension ^^ ), when I installed Reunion, I rename Reunino folder to textures( the same as configured for 7H ), and all my battlr, field, magic, world... folders come in Textures folder, like before in Reunion.
And too, I can simply install and activate NT mod from 7H and play both NT and reunion
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-01-15 07:51:55
The retranslation wont work together with NT. Sega has to make an update for it. But the rest will work.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-15 11:58:49
Thanks Kaldarasha.
So with NT mod level of difficulty, there is no need to make a strategy of use a lot of magic / summon for beating ennemies ?
We can stay in front line instead of back line / sadness like we have to in hardcore mod
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-01-15 12:53:11
I have only played an early version of the mod and then only the bombing mission, but as much I have seen and read about it I would say it starts easy and the gets harder and harder without to become to unfair.

A small question by me is it possible to add an purple aura (like regen) on the character as long as a limit is executed?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-01-15 14:07:47
Okay, so if I understand well( and I'm not sure cause my bad english comprehension ^^ ), when I installed Reunion, I rename Reunino folder to textures( the same as configured for 7H ), and all my battlr, field, magic, world... folders come in Textures folder, like before in Reunion.
And too, I can simply install and activate NT mod from 7H and play both NT and reunion

Close. When you use the Game Converter from STEP 1 of the 7H tutorial, it creates a mods\Textures folder. So when you install Reunion, move everything from mods\Reunion to mods\Textures. Be sure to have the Aali Modpath pointing to mods\Textures when you setup the Workshop -> Settings, which I have written in the 7H tutorial as well.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-15 15:33:33
Thanks Kaldarasha.
So with NT mod level of difficulty, there is no need to make a strategy of use a lot of magic / summon for beating ennemies ?
We can stay in front line instead of back line / sadness like we have to in hardcore mod

Random fights were specced to be facing a front row party (no barriers) and to last only 1-2 minutes, max. Boss fights I aimed for about 8-12 minutes, against a front row team using Barriers. If you run into trouble, a back-row sadness team might fare better but there are certain bosses where this set-up could actually hinder you. The mod was built around being aggressive; most enemies have an elemental weakness or two and will be vulnerable to status ailments.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-01-16 07:38:10
Ookay, so it's just a little more difficult than normal game, but it aims to be played agressively and quickly.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: seijuro on 2015-01-16 17:17:38
Ok, so I always have New Threat mod selected in the gameplay tab, so I'm not sure if this is the cause of the problems I've been having.
I’ve been trying to help install NT mod and all the HD upgrades on my buddies’ computer but I ran into a few problems though and I can’t figure out a solution as to how/why/etc... so I am in need of some help.

• Windows 7 Tower: Uninstalled FF7 and then 7th Heaven, and then freshly re-installed it. Downloaded all the new mods via catalog subscriptions. Everything works great EXCEPT the field graphics mod (6.8GB one). I see it activated in the "Active Mods" list. In-game the field graphics are pixelated and looks like nothing happened/activated. I keep activating/deactivating it but…. nothing happens. Everything else works fine though.

• Macbook Pro bootcamp running Windows XP (yes really): The downloader keeps crashing on this machine when I’m downloading the field graphics update (once again, the 6.8GB one). Does OS have to do anything with the download?

OR

Is there a simple external link where I can just do a single download of the field graphics mod .IRO file, then after done downloading, just drag & drop inside the folder? I literally tried a bunch of times downloading it. When it gets to half way, the whole program crashes.

• Game doesn’t load movies even though the path to movies is correct in the settings…. maybe my own error? I made sure path is correct.

• Is there a way to disable glitch error notifications in the game? Don't see a setting in the menu at all.

There's probably more but I'll get back to you guys. Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-16 18:31:43
This is sounding more like 7H trouble than NT trouble. It's maybe the size of the download that's causing trouble, it's the biggest one at 6.8GB. As for movies, that might be something to do with the conversion process.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2015-01-17 01:56:25
This is a very common problem if someone had bootleg installed first, so did your friend have bootleg installed first?

If one mod doesn't work in 7H it will cause nearly all of them not to work and the FLevel will go out of sync, easy way to check this is to do the first battle and see if the text is messed up or it isn't the first two soldiers but something crazy... And trust me I have seen some crazy things in my time.

also I tend to find uninstalling final fantasy doesn't help as other registry keys always get left. you need to uninstall and delete everything. Then open registry editor and search your registry for any mention of final fantasy and delete it... then install it all over again from scratch and your problems will usually be fixed
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-01-20 04:05:09
Sega do you have a public twitter or a steam I can contact you on for regular bug checks? I've found some real oddities I haven't always posted and am planning a second play through once I figure out how to beat the ?????? boss and the 2 weapons

current questions: Is junon league currently just limited to the 2 brackets? Why is Tifa so overpowered with her HP steal weapon? At least Cloud's hp steal sword has weak attack and few materia. Lastly did I miss any items by forgetting to do the Turtles Paradise sidequest? You said sources were currently removed.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-20 12:55:53
I'm not on Twitter, but I do have a Steam account under 'Sega Chief'. The more bugs you let me know about, the more I can get ironed out for 1.3's release; feel free to add me on there.

The Junon Leagues is currently only two brackets, I'm adding a third to 1.3. I'll give the HP Steal weapons a look over. And from the Turtle's Paradise sidequest, you get the following: Megalixir, Light Curtain, Lunar Curtain, Sun Curtain, Astral Curtain, SS Mine, and a Gospel Spark. All these items are available elsewhere so they're not missable.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ProtomanZxAdvent on 2015-01-24 00:45:16
loving this new mod dude its giving me a new take on this game so far no problem as of yet
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-24 13:58:20
Cheers, bud; I've got the update for it coming soon so if you spot any problems or have suggestions let me know.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-01-28 13:41:32
hey sega chief

how much more longer until we can test out NG+
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-28 14:28:22
NewGame+ is the last planned addition for the mod, that won't be appearing until v1.5 which I'm aiming to be the last major update for the mod (once everything else is in and has been refined). I've worked on it now and then, but mostly for testing and to find out what I can do with it and how to work around certain problems.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2015-01-29 01:58:46
When do you plan to include ultimate weapons and sources?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-29 03:35:34
I'm going to make the last boss drop all of them, then the ending credits will play  :x
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: RedManMark86 on 2015-01-29 11:50:55
I'm going to make the last boss drop all of them, then the ending credits will play  :x

Was that sarcasm my Scottish friend as I'm pretty sure the ultimate weapons are there earned through your new quests on disc 3 and a couple of others in different ways? As for sources sure they are planned for new game plus?

I was actually going to post something equally sarcastic yesterday but held my fingers :P
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-01-29 13:49:42
Yes, ults will be begrudgingly dropped for new stuff put into Disc 3. Sources are being kept back for NG+.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: selius on 2015-01-31 12:21:21
NewGame+ won't be appearing until v1.5

 :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-01 19:01:21
I will do a new playthoug, when 1.3 version could be donwload ? :)
I ask you because you said that it is remanded to wait the 1.3 until to start
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-02-01 19:42:36
Hey I know you're probably busy but could you run another balance pass on the enemies faced ~before~ the boss fight in return to Junon (Tifa gas chamber etc) for parties that have an underleveled Barret and Cait Sith? Maybe add a vendor if you're intent on leaving the AI and damage levels as is.

Take your time on the update, cheers!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-01 19:54:00
You got it, I think I added a save point to that area but a vendor could be added too. I'll tweak the enemies that appear too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-07 16:49:41
hey

how many more days until v 1.3 of the new threat mod is ready to be downloaded

just curious
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-07 17:52:31
It'll be within the next three days; I don't have a shift at work until Wednesday.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-08 19:57:19
Will the update be in the 7h heaven the next three days too ?
Is it very important to start a new play when the 1.3 coming or can i continue my actual save ? ( i just played 1 or 2 hours so no problem to start a new but it's hard to wait the 1.3)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-02-08 20:08:41
I would wait for 1.3 to be released. I'll have it in the 7H Catalog ASAP.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-09 06:27:30
Ok i'll wait for the 1.3 so, thx for your answer
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-10 19:24:47
hey sega chief

am i going to be able to download v 1.3 of this mod today

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-10 19:30:01
Not today, I'll see if I can get it together for tomorrow.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-02-10 20:01:39
do your best we can wait!

im planning on doing some kind of video lets play for 1.3 so im getting really excited
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-10 20:12:52
I'd appreciate that; it's very close to completion, though. Today I was getting the ReadMe and other materials together; got some fixes and checks to do after that to make sure that the new sidequest doesn't interfere with the  start of the game in any way.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-11 16:51:43
It seems that the EXP arc is a bit more unstable than I realised; at around Lv.61 it starts to get unpredictable and becomes even more so going through Lv.80 and onwards. I may need to either go back to using the traditional EXP arcs which could potentially cause some visual glitches to occur with the player's EXP gauges (until they level up once, then it should correct itself); while the visual glitch itself is seemingly harmless & temporary, the reason I stopped using the original EXP arcs in the first place was because players were leveling too fast in v1.1 and finding themselves overpowered just by playing normally (as in, with little or no grinding).

Since then, the EXP given by enemies has been adjusted and a Lv.70 cap was put into the enemy AI but I'm not sure if it's enough to keep the Lv.40-50 range I'm aiming for players to reach Disc 3 at. When 1.3 is released, I'd appreciate people keeping an eye on their levels and telling me when exactly they reach Lv.50 and a little about their playstyle (for instance if you fought everything once, or never ran from battles, or ran from most battles, etc.)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-11 16:58:23
I'll keep an eye on the exp and tell you my playstile when i start my new playthoug ;)
Can we hope to see the 1.3 tomorrow or need you some more days ? :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-11 17:13:22
Cheers bud, I'd appreciate that.

I'm really wanting to get it finished tonight. The last battles have all just passed tests and checks, so it's just that last bit of field testing to get done. I need to speedrun Midgar real quick to make sure none of the major events are being interfered with by the new scripts. I also want to put a countdown in for the finale of the sidequest, so I need to grab scripts from the Reactor or Corel Train and get them applied to the relevant fields.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-02-11 17:46:22
I just set up my streaming and youtube stuff last night, should provide a good example for you when the time comes.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-02-11 18:12:02
I just set up my streaming and youtube stuff last night, should provide a good example for you when the time comes.
Hmm, would it be okay to post links to your stream and youtube here?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-11 18:14:56
Of course it'd be fine; it's related to the mod and whatnot.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-02-11 19:50:56
Hello again everyone I'll reply again when the update releases and everything is working properly, I have everything set up on my end as well as I can at the moment.
My stream can be viewed here at the appropriate time
http://www.twitch.tv/cicadian

I just finished my test stream where I was making sure everything works, my mic was too low and I had a friend watching. Recently got over the flu as well!

Currently using a makeshift modification of the NT1.2 banner mostly for fun
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-11 20:33:09
The elastoplast with 1.3 on it was quite funny; BTTV picked up some of the old chat posts. Seems that LCP paid you a visit too.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: LetCreativityPlay on 2015-02-11 21:01:51
I'm glad to see your mod popping around and getting some love, much deservingly so.  :-D
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-11 21:26:01
Take that damn christmas hat off; it's February.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-12 00:29:09
Edit: Found the problem, it's late though so I'll need to upload tomorrow.

Edit2: The problem is easily fixed, but I'm about to start a 9hr shift and there's not enough time to get the patch generated + uploaded. My next shift is at 4.30pm tomorrow which should give me tonight and the next morning free to get it all wrapped up.

Edit3: NEARLY. THERE.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-02-14 03:14:13
wooooooooo
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Rukenu on 2015-02-14 20:21:48
Cant wait to play your update, bud, THE HYPE IS REAL.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-14 23:27:37
Cheers, bud; just making sure that it's working before release and adding in some finishing touches.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Rukenu on 2015-02-14 23:35:15
Dont worry bro, take your time, just one question, 1.3 will still replacing the field.lgp and the another files? just for backup the files before install it c:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-14 23:38:32
Aye, it'll still replace the same files as before:

-) scene.bin
-) kernel.bin & kernel2.bin
-) flevel.lgp
-) char.lgp
-) battle.lgp

The rest are untouched.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-02-15 09:27:13
No world_us.lgp?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-15 13:01:53
I decided to leave it out to keep the size of the patcher down.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ficedula on 2015-02-15 16:22:15
Sega Chief: I've released a tool here (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15948.msg224082#msg224082) that you might find useful for writing AI functions: if you could take a look and let me know if you have any suggestions for features you'd find useful, that'd be good ;)

Cheers
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-15 19:56:52
Sure thing, bud; I'll give it a whirl.

Edit: I might not be able to give proper feedback, I'm afraid. I can't actually use the tool because I don't know any scripting languages.

I was hoping it would be something like the concept that was discussed a while back where the user selects 'chunks' to quickly build an AI but typing up all the terms, etc. by hand would likely take longer than just coding it into PrC (which is just numbers).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-16 05:13:38
Just to be curious, how about your advancement with the 1.3? :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: ficedula on 2015-02-16 06:47:44
Sure thing, bud; I'll give it a whirl.

Edit: I might not be able to give proper feedback, I'm afraid. I can't actually use the tool because I don't know any scripting languages.

I was hoping it would be something like the concept that was discussed a while back where the user selects 'chunks' to quickly build an AI but typing up all the terms, etc. by hand would likely take longer than just coding it into PrC (which is just numbers).

Eh, for simple scripts I guess not. Where it'll help out is if you want an enemy to do something complex like:

Something like that'd be a pain to code up manually. But for just writing an enemy with one attack that always uses that one move, yeah, the raw bytecode isn't going to be long anyway.

(It will let you include functions written by other people, too, once they've been written, but nothing like that exists yet of course since it's only been out a day... ;) )
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-16 12:17:20
Just to be curious, how about your advancement with the 1.3? :)

It's going well; I fixed the problem with the EXP arc by making my own. I can now get a lot more control over the stat curves as a whole by manually editing each arc rather than just picking from what's already there; I may spend a few hours plotting that out.

Eh, for simple scripts I guess not. Where it'll help out is if you want an enemy to do something complex like:
  • Use attack A directly after being attacked by something magic
  • If all of my allies are dead, 25% chance of using Life on one of them
  • Or, there's a 50% change of using attack B when on less than 50% HP
  • Otherwise alternate between attacks C and D

Something like that'd be a pain to code up manually. But for just writing an enemy with one attack that always uses that one move, yeah, the raw bytecode isn't going to be long anyway.

(It will let you include functions written by other people, too, once they've been written, but nothing like that exists yet of course since it's only been out a day... ;) )

Yeah, I guess it would be; and being able to share AI between users would be great. Splicing chunks into PrC can get a bit messy sometimes.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-16 12:18:58
hey Sega chief

is this mod going to be released this week

and its my birthday week this week also
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-16 12:21:38
I see what you're angling for; it'll definitely be done sometime this week.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-16 16:29:10
Thanks for your answer SC, i will continue to check this topic everyday them :p
Good luck for your work :p
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-17 00:49:22
That's it completed, I'm just going through all my old notes and getting rid of the old ones and looking for quick things here and there to add in. Made a few revisions, like the CPR event only taking one breath (I always hated how long CPR would take), a few refinements, and, well, this: http://youtu.be/SLL3UB-WeVA

1.3 will be uploaded and made available within the next few hours, unless some kind of cataclysm occurs. I've test-played through Midgar and various other areas to ensure that there's no serious problems popping up that could cause crashes/soft-locks/other issues, and enemies have been tested extensively to make sure that their AI is working and everyone is present and correct. The EXP arc issue was also resolved, so the arc is now repaired without the sudden 'jumps' that would occur between Lv.61 and 81.

Last thing that needs doing is preparing a 'database' that details equipment locations, etc. I'll be doing that as the patch and other materials upload. But yeah, thanks for your patience and hopefully it'll have been worth the wait.

Edit: 1.3 of the NT Mod is now live (properly this time). God-willing, there won't be anything overlooked but let me know pronto if you notice anything out of the ordinary.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-17 03:16:07
hey sega chief

thanks for working so hard on this mod for us

and how come you did not upload your mod to mediafire this time for just curious

and keep up the great work
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-17 03:37:11
Cheers, bud. I hope you enjoy it.

As for the change in hosting site, somebody told me that they couldn't get the file from Mediafire, so I swapped to Mega instead. Let me know if there's any trouble downloading it from there, though. I can always put it on Mediafire as well if need be.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-02-17 04:18:57
Chrome tends to block a lot of MEGA downloads from this site, so I have to use Firefox to get them. You can always look into Google Drive and be able to monitor the download stats.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-17 05:17:02
Just went on Google Drive and must have used it before; I found a tonne of NT Alpha files/patches sitting on it. I'll put the new version on there so you don't need to swap browsers.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-17 05:25:53
Nice thanks for all this work ! :)
Just need to wait the 7th heaven version and i could start this :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-17 05:32:52
Yeah, about that; what do you need from me for 7H, Alyza? Another list of modified fields, etc?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-02-17 06:18:48
Well, I prefer the files separated, otherwise I just use the installer on a fresh install and pull out the files needed. The battle.lgp is the big one trying to find which files were modified.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-02-17 08:07:37
Sega I streamed all night and got to the segment where you buy the batteries, think your new quest is causing a problem I can't proceed past the wall and hanging wire. I sent you some messages on steam of my highlights of these bugs, check my twitch if you didn't get anything.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-17 09:46:25
hey Cicadian

i think you were spose to buy the batteries first

and then talk to the chlidren to climb the wire

try that
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-17 13:14:49
I just checked the area, with and without batteries, and it seems to be functioning normally. My best guess is that a stray variable might be the culprit; I'll check your twitch highlights, Steam seems to be down at the moment.

Edit: Saw the highlight, seems a variable got triggered out of place. Specifically, it was Biggs' talk script just before going into Reactor 5.

Edit 2: I've replaced the variable with something else. I'll update the files.

Edit 3: And that's the Dragon Fang from Honey Bee Inn  fixed too. Re-uploading the installer.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.2)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-17 15:38:01
hey sega chief

you forgot to change your topic title to say this insted

[FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-17 15:41:57
I've got a habit of doing that, it seems like; thanks for letting me know, bud.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-17 15:54:28
Waiting the 7th heaven version with impatient :)
Thx again for your work SC :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-17 15:55:26
I posted a link for an IRO on the first page, but if you're playing through Alyza's catalogue then it might be a better idea to wait for that. I'm still not 100% sure if I should be posting a link for a separate IRO file here or not.

Edit: Installer is back up. Seeing how early it is after release, I just updated the Installer itself rather than make a hotfix patch this time.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-17 17:37:55
Yeah 'm using the catalog so i will wait for alyza update of his catalog :/
Thx an other time for your answer SC :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-17 20:38:14
hey sega chief

just curious, why is the NT download link being removed alot for?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-02-17 20:40:47
It says [Updating] so he's fixes bugs he finds along the way :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-17 20:43:17
Some issues popped up. The first was a dodgy trigger for the Wire you use to climb into the Shinra HQ building + a respawning item in the Honey Bee Inn. Currently, it's down because an encounter with Mirage Weapon can be fought in the first three screens of the game. Why didn't I notice that when I was playing? Because if you run through these first three field screens without straying too far from the path, you won't run into an encounter until the 4th screen which is safe.

I'd normally release a hotfix patch but it's Day 1 so I want to avoid confusing first time players about whether they have to use the Hotfix patches after using the main installer or not.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-02-17 23:29:04
Alright since most of the glaring issues seem to be out of the way, I wanted to do what I said and say I'll be streaming often until I've torn this thing down to the ground. You can view my streams and past recordings at twitch.tv/cicadian , I hope everyone takes the time to actually play this though its a lot of fun.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-18 00:42:05
hey sega chief

i just thought of a idea

my idea is this, why don't you add a small mini boss battle with the 2 turks in the sierra elevator before the party gets arrested

what do you think about that idea

and can you add the ff7 boss battle music to the hella gunner and thousand gunner battle

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-18 01:16:15
Could do, would be an early Rude battle. And I can set the Gunners to use the boss theme; they've always used the regular battle music for whatever reason.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: atro city on 2015-02-18 01:21:14
I always figured they used the battle music because there are a lot of bosses in a short period of time, and the boss battle theme would get redundant if it was used for every one.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-18 01:55:34
That's what I was thinking.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-18 10:38:36
If i use your instaler on my game and after launch the 7th heaven will this worth to play at the nt 1.3 and usind my mods i configured on my 7th heaven?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-18 14:00:25
Hey sega chief

i am at the air buster boss fight

i did 9999 damage to him about 10 times and he is still not dead

can you lower the HP on the air buster boss fight please

it destoryed Barret in a couple of hits

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-18 16:12:09
If i use your instaler on my game and after launch the 7th heaven will this worth to play at the nt 1.3 and usind my mods i configured on my 7th heaven?

I don't think it'll work properly, but it's worth a shot. Make sure to back your files up before trying it though.

Hey sega chief

i am at the air buster boss fight

i did 9999 damage to him about 10 times and he is still not dead

can you lower the HP on the air buster boss fight please

it destoryed Barret in a couple of hits

thanks

Your party must be over Lv.40 for Air Buster to take that amount of abuse. I recycled him for use as a quick Disc 3 mini-boss and his AI is set to detect if any of the player's characters in the battle are over Lv.40; if they are, his 3000HP is raised to 200,000HP and his other stats get a significant boost as well.

Considering the new EXP arc, I think it'd likely be impossible to hit Lv.40 naturally in this short space of time using only Reactor No.1 & Reactor No.5 enemy encounters. Did you use a save editor or was there an EXP exploit somewhere?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-18 16:14:06
hey

I used DLPB ff7 trainer program to get my party members to level 99 at the start of the game
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Rukenu on 2015-02-18 16:21:38
If i use your instaler on my game and after launch the 7th heaven will this worth to play at the nt 1.3 and usind my mods i configured on my 7th heaven?

Probably as Saga said it wont work properly, probably your models will be overwritten  for the NT, but maybe if you pull them to the top in the load order would work.

The best option it's wait for the IRO file or wait until Alyza update the catalog, it should be soon.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-18 16:41:21
hey

I used DLPB ff7 trainer program to get my party members to level 99 at the start of the game

Be careful when using that trainer with NT; it can cause some problems to occur with new NT events.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-18 17:42:58
Thx for answers guys, as i thibk it is better to wait an iro file or an upadte of the catalog but it's harder and harder to wait for start playing that's why i asking to use the instaler and after launch 7th heaven x)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-02-18 17:48:47
I will be updating the Catalog with NT 1.3 this week (I hope). Just make sure to uninstall your current Gameplay - Difficulty and Story and download a new one because I will be changing the file formats for better use of updates in the future.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-02-18 19:47:40
NT Mod don't come with his own level of difficulty ?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-18 22:02:24
I will be updating the Catalog with NT 1.3 this week (I hope). Just make sure to uninstall your current Gameplay - Difficulty and Story and download a new one because I will be changing the file formats for better use of updates in the future.

Thanks, Alyza; I really appreciate the support for NT.

NT Mod don't come with his own level of difficulty ?


Not sure what you mean. I respecced every enemy stat, attack, AI, and player stat, equipment, items, and spells. It took a long time, but I fine-tuned everything to make it fit a difficulty curve with some unique challenges throughout to keep people on their toes. Though with the many different ways I've seen people playing it, it's more like they're keeping me on my toes at this point  :wink:
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-18 22:07:36
hey sega chief

what kind of problems can the ff7 trainer do to your ff7 NT on v 1.3 with your new sidequest stuff
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-19 02:45:51
I'm not 100% sure; but there was a guy from a while back using it who experienced a few problems. The Nibel Flashback had a messed up Sephiroth for instance, and a few of the sidequests wouldn't trigger correctly.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-02-19 11:16:32
Thx for answer alyza, i hope this update will coming fast it's hard to wait to finaly start the nt mod with beotiful graphics :)
Waiting for your message for unstal and reinstal all my mods them
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: daniel0409 on 2015-02-20 04:23:50
Hello!Sega Chief!
I've played your NT mod 1.3 for days,this is the best mod I've ever seen.But now I got stuck.Now that Cloud, Tifa and Barret is going to climb up to the Shinra to save Aeris.When I walk to the pillar in Wall market,Cloud keep saying"We're still missing people"and I can't climb up.Is there anything I missed?I've bought the bettaries.Please response if you have time.Thanks!And I am sorry for my bad english!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-20 04:35:59
Hello!Sega Chief!
I've played your NT mod 1.3 for days,this is the best mod I've ever seen.But now I got stuck.Now that Cloud, Tifa and Barret is going to climb up to the Shinra to save Aeris.When I walk to the pillar in Wall market,Cloud keep saying"We're still missing people"and I can't climb up.Is there anything I missed?I've bought the bettaries.Please response if you have time.Thanks!And I am sorry for my bad english!

Yeah, there was a 'day 1' problem in the mod involving that wire. Rather than make a hotfix patch, I instead re-uploaded the installer with the problem fixed. The installer that's currently up has the updates in it; try downloading it and re-applying the patch. If the problem is still there after this, let me know and I'll get it repaired ASAP.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: daniel0409 on 2015-02-20 06:32:15
Thanks for your fix!Now I can climb it up!!!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: indrema on 2015-02-20 21:56:59
I have a problem at the start of the game, in the area after naming Cloud and Barret in the random fight appear the ultimate weapon!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Rukenu on 2015-02-20 23:09:05
I have a problem at the start of the game, in the area after naming Cloud and Barret in the random fight appear the ultimate weapon!

It's because you're using an old 1.3 installer, download it again from the first post, it would fix it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-20 23:09:32
Yeah, same thing again. It was something I overlooked when I first uploaded the installer; I fixed it the same day and then reuploaded the installer rather than making a hotfix patch. Try downloading the installer again and re-applying it to your game, that should get rid of the problem (but let me know if it doesn't).

It's because you're using an old 1.3 installer, download it again from the first post, it would fix it.

Looks like I got beaten to it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: indrema on 2015-02-21 11:33:51
Yeah, same thing again. It was something I overlooked when I first uploaded the installer; I fixed it the same day and then reuploaded the installer rather than making a hotfix patch. Try downloading the installer again and re-applying it to your game, that should get rid of the problem (but let me know if it doesn't).

Looks like I got beaten to it.
Cool, work! TNX
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-21 14:09:46
hey sega chief

can you update your youtube video to show us what dro disc 3 sidequest is all about please
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sayuri on 2015-02-21 20:02:59
Hi there!
Just passing by to say that at the begining of Disc 2, just before the reunion when Seph attacks your team, I get a fight with Mimic and not the fight that I believe is supposed to be against Sephiroth. Is it working as intended ? Cause it's one hell of a hard fight, I can't even get a turn in >.<. Also in that fight I got a case when Mimic attack their group with the Confuse/Berserk AoE and it softlock (fight is still running but no actions are taken by either sides), quite weird.
Anyway, the mod itself is really great hoping it gets only better :).

PS: Had to mention that I had this issue with the 17th Feb version then applied the patch of the 21th Feb and I still have it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-21 21:00:00
Hey bud,

There was a shift around in the fights used to make space for enemy formations. Unfortunately, I just remembered that before I put it out for release I loaded in some old NT fields to get rid of unused stuff that didn't make the cut, and these field screens would have been referencing the old battle instead of the new one (it was something that slipped my mind when I did it). I'll update the patches + installer right away.

I'll double-check the scene.bin as well to find out where this softlock is coming from. I thought I'd caught it.

Edit: Seems that the cause itself was Flaythrower, which was a surprise; I figured I'd found the problem when Statis Lock wasn't set properly. Changing the attack's animation seems to have fixed the issue as the battle continued normally when the new Flaythrower (renamed to Clone Breath) was used. I'll update the patches and installer, sorry for the hassle everyone.

Edit 2: The modifed Scene & Flevel hotfix patches (v2) have been uploaded and linked on the 1st page. Hopefully that does the trick.

Edit 3:
hey sega chief

can you update your youtube video to show us what dro disc 3 sidequest is all about please

I could make a new video showing where everything is, sure.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sayuri on 2015-02-22 03:33:03
Hi again!
I tried after patching, it did the trick for getting the right fight but there is now an issue with that fight, this time Sephi doesn't attack at the start in the same manner as the Mimic fight.
Hopefuly this time it's the good one :D.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-22 03:59:01
That fight is busted too? Alright, I'll check it out. (Someone shoot me)

Edit: Checked Sephiroth's AI; he has somehow managed to acquire Vincent's AI. Another patch it is then :I

Edit 2: The new scene.bin hotfix patch is up.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sayuri on 2015-02-22 07:17:59
That fight is busted too? Alright, I'll check it out. (Someone shoot me)

Edit: Checked Sephiroth's AI; he has somehow managed to acquire Vincent's AI. Another patch it is then :I

Edit 2: The new scene.bin hotfix patch is up.

Everything is now working :D. Thanks a lot !

Edit : In Junon, the materia Comet can be picked up infinitely, it says you're full of materia but you still pick it up without the materia disapearing.
Edit 2 : In Gelnika, Unknown and Unknown 2 are being bugged in the same manner, don't know if the others are bugged too, didn't encountered them yet (I guess I'm unLucky to find all of those case in my walkthrough). It happens right after they do a move that trigger a weird change of camera.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-22 13:07:53
I think you're the first person to mention finding the Junon Comet Materia (otherwise someone would have reported that they were getting infinite pick-ups of it by now). That was put there as a fail-safe in case people failed the Corel Train segment way back in the first release of the mod. Should be simple enough to fix that up.

The Unknowns were given an AI revision for this release so something must have gone wrong there, probably an attack not set properly. I'll get the Gelnika sorted ASAP. Appreciate these bug reports by the way, and thanks for being patient.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-02-22 14:00:21
I'm going to hold off on the 7H update until we finish ironing out the bugs. If you wouldn't mind sending the patches my way via PM, that would be great :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-22 14:28:59
No problem; I've been doing another round of testing and found a few other things that needed fixed (along with some niggling issues that've been bugging me since the beginning, like the bad scrolling on the Highwind). I'll get it all tied up and then send them across.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sayuri on 2015-02-22 15:45:01
I think you're the first person to mention finding the Junon Comet Materia (otherwise someone would have reported that they were getting infinite pick-ups of it by now). That was put there as a fail-safe in case people failed the Corel Train segment way back in the first release of the mod. Should be simple enough to fix that up.

The Unknowns were given an AI revision for this release so something must have gone wrong there, probably an attack not set properly. I'll get the Gelnika sorted ASAP. Appreciate these bug reports by the way, and thanks for being patient.

I don't mind it at all, love all this bug finding, kinda like my only way of giving any contribution to the mod :).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-22 16:28:43
hey sega chief

great job on finding all the bugs on this mod

and can you put updating on this title please, Video Installation Tutorial + Gameplay Trailer
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-22 16:33:21
Every bug fixed is a step closer to the end.

That's the updated files up now (I'm calling these patches 'v3' to distinguish them from the ones made earlier today). Here's what was fixed:

Scene
-) Enemies 'Unknown 1 & 2' AI set correctly
-) Serpent enemy given new AI overhaul (long overdue)

Flevel
-) Corrected Great Glacier map issue on one field screen (the secret one which leads into Snow's Cave for Alexander Materia)
-) Corrected a minor issue with Highwind scrolling when transitioning to the bridge with a different party leader
-) Refined the counter-measure against the party leader swap - World Map saving issue by locking Cloud and Tifa in PHS depending on who has been made party leader (should now be impossible to make the glitch occur, even if done intentionally)
-) Fixed an issue where having different party leaders when triggering the Dark Cave sidequest could lead to wrong dialogue and a softlock
-) Fixed a Question text alignment issue with the Brawler Bracket in the Junon Leagues sidequest
-) Very minor text issue where a quotation mark was out of place for the Special Battle unlocking dialogue

hey sega chief

great job on finding all the bugs on this mod

and can you put updating on this title please, Video Installation Tutorial + Gameplay Trailer

I wouldn't say all of them; there's always another bug. But for now, we've cleared out some critical ones and corrected some niggling minor ones so we'll hopefully be clear for a while.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: indrema on 2015-02-22 20:11:14
Hi Sega Chief, IMO Air Buster boss is wrong oriented, can you check?
And, TNX for this great mod!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-22 20:48:53
You mean his turning and facing? That's unfortunately how he was in the vanilla game as well and might be a limitation of his design; I tried to fix it once but wasn't successful (if anyone has been able to fix Air Buster's turning facing then please get in touch, I'd be interested in that fix). The thing to remember is that the direction he's visibly facing isn't necessarily the actual direction he's facing. He'll instead be 'facing' whoever attacked him last with a physical attack.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-02-23 20:33:10
Hey I'm having trouble finding Lv4 Suicide, is it still on Mu/Trickplay? I can't find any Mu and Trickplay isn't using it.
Also Black and White Megaphones appear to not be using their listed effects, I can try using them again. I know for sure at least that the Barrier one was not working.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-23 22:14:54
It's still on Mu; they're a rare encounter in the chocobo ranch area (try running around on the darker grass rather than the light green, that might be what it is). Trickplays don't have L4 Suicide, but I could give them this skill the next time I make a patch. I'll look into the weapons as well and maybe give them a different effect if needed.

Quick note; a message isn't playing for the Dark Cave sidequest that could make things unclear. Before trying to climb the wire up to Shinra HQ, remember that you need to find all of your party members first (the message was a prompt for that).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-23 22:25:13
hey sega chief

how hard did you make the dark cave sidequest
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-23 23:17:48
I was specced against lv.70 parties so it'll be pretty tough. While maybe one or two of the Extra Battle monsters are slightly tougher in terms of raw power the Dark Cave as a whole is quite vicious. If you're planning to tackle it, I'd recommend waiting until you're at least Lv.60 with some decent equipment and to make a separate save file just in case you have trouble clearing it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-24 20:46:35
hey sega chief

do i need to uninstall ff7 from steam to install your new updates on your ff7 NT Mod
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-25 01:08:37
No, all you need to do is run the patcher. A re-install isn't necessary.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-25 17:22:05
hey sega chief

is there anyway you could add sephiorth as a playable party member on your mod please

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-25 17:37:30
I could, but it would be awkward both mechanically and from a story perspective. Sephiroth himself isn't 'complete' and lacks a lot of animations like Item use and probably Slash-All, Deathblow, etc. Not to mention he'd need to overwrite Vincent so handlers would be needed to cover that.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sayuri on 2015-02-26 22:07:52
Hi again !
Just passing by to say that I'm finding myself enjoying all the new stuff now that I am in Disc 3, I was so frustated amused by all those fake materias all around the normal walkthrough, nice jokes overall (poor Scorpion Boss too). Also isn't there an error with some LB like Cid Lv3 Big brawl ? It just doesn't seem to do any damage sometimes (like there is no numbers/sounds trigger at all) and one of the extra battles (the one with the ships, I really can't remember the names >.<), dunno if it's intended but some of the enemies doesn't die/disapear.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-26 22:31:56
Big Brawl seems a bit strange. I've noticed that sometimes it doesn't seem to pop numbers properly; thing is, the mod doesn't alter the .exe in any way (unless the 7H version was given the experimental .exe patch but not sure) so I'm not sure if that's always been there for the PC version or if it's just something that's popped up for the mod. Satellite Beam seemed a bit strange sometimes too. And whetever you do, avoid using Hyper Jump if possible as that's definitely known to cause occasional crashes on any version of the game, including vanilla.

The ship battle must be acting up; I maybe missed something in the AI for the death counter. I'll get it fixed up; is the battle rendered unwinnable or do the 'defeated' ships just kind of hang out?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sayuri on 2015-02-27 10:11:35
Big Brawl seems a bit strange. I've noticed that sometimes it doesn't seem to pop numbers properly; thing is, the mod doesn't alter the .exe in any way (unless the 7H version was given the experimental .exe patch but not sure) so I'm not sure if that's always been there for the PC version or if it's just something that's popped up for the mod. Satellite Beam seemed a bit strange sometimes too. And whetever you do, avoid using Hyper Jump if possible as that's definitely known to cause occasional crashes on any version of the game, including vanilla.

The ship battle must be acting up; I maybe missed something in the AI for the death counter. I'll get it fixed up; is the battle rendered unwinnable or do the 'defeated' ships just kind of hang out?

The fight is winnable and they do hang out/wait for their boss getting killed ^^, it just takes some useless hits from multi attacks and kinda mess with the target cursor.

Edit: While I was looking for Tifa's sidequest (wich I still don't know where to look for), if Tifa is currently leading the party, in her house her sprite don't show up, like you're invisible, thank god mister cursor is here.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-27 13:38:34
Thought I'd fixed that one. I'll look at it again.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sayuri on 2015-02-27 14:29:55
Last post for me today, seems like lucky pill doesn't work unless it doedn't work against the last extra battle. Sorry for giving you more work :'(.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-02-27 21:09:46
hey sega chief

is there anyway you could enable the save anywhere feature on your mod please

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-02-27 21:51:00
Last post for me today, seems like lucky pill doesn't work unless it doedn't work against the last extra battle. Sorry for giving you more work :'(.

Lucky Pill isn't working? Bit mysterious, it's been working since 1.2 and wasn't changed for 1.3 (also seems normal in the kernel). Did your characters get hit with the Resist status or have Ribbons equipped by any chance? Those would block the status from being applied by the item.

hey sega chief

is there anyway you could enable the save anywhere feature on your mod please

thanks

I think so, would need a bit of testing so I know which screens are safe to have always-save on and which aren't. One problem might be Tents, as they'd become an inexpensive source of full party healing so I'd need to look into that and see what can be done.

Edit: Update just went up with the latest version of the files.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sayuri on 2015-02-28 08:11:50
Ok, my bad, must be that Auto-crit isn't compatible with some other buff, when it "didn't work" agaisnt last extra battle I used Cloud with Force Stealer with Haste + berserk followed by lucky pill in between those two then resist/vaccine (with remedy/esuna when Cloud had been hit by all those negative status).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-02 14:43:50
hey sega chief

will your NT Mod work with the Reunion mod

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-02 14:58:46
It most likely won't from what I've seen. I've been cleaning up the NT's flevel though so at some point in the future I might put out a special version of NT that uses the retranslated dialogue from Reunion. I ran it by DLPB and he seemed cool with it. But for now I'm working on the Arrange version of the NT mod which uses an .exe patch.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-02 15:19:36
You could work nt mod with reunion thanks to 7th heaven, just need to wait the updating of the 7th heaven's catalog and nomaly the two mods should run perfectly; whereas without 7th heaven, i don't know if it's possible.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: ManuBBXX on 2015-03-02 18:46:30
7H is so coooool  ;) 8)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: indrema on 2015-03-02 19:59:41
I have installed Reunion over NT and ATM is work well  :-D.
But Ive some problem to defeat the first Jenova, Ive a lv21 party and I make less damage than energy her can drain.How I can do?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-03-02 21:02:37
It most likely won't from what I've seen. I've been cleaning up the NT's flevel though so at some point in the future I might put out a special version of NT that uses the retranslated dialogue from Reunion. I ran it by DLPB and he seemed cool with it. But for now I'm working on the Arrange version of the NT mod which uses an .exe patch.

I'm creating patches for it right now (Wall Market + Proud Clod features). So far I've run into snags, but I think it's because I'm doing it late at night after working all day and doing family stuff afterwards. By that time, I'm pretty tired and lose my focus quick. I'll let you know how things come soon enough :)

Are there any dialogue changes/additions in NT?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-02 21:19:07
There's quite a lot of new text, and some changes were made here and there to existing dialogue (most of the story text is intact though). Are you needing a list of which fields have alterations?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-03-02 21:56:21
That list would be great, yes.

Have you seen these script fixes from the Reunion mod? Have you done anything with them in NT?

Code: [Select]
                ancnt1 / ancnt4: Corrects Vincent's animation

blin67_2:  Fixes Tifa infinite Love Points bug

canon_2: Fixes story skipping glitch

chrin_1b: Aerith missing dialogue in dream sequence
reinstated Cloud/Aerith no longer turn to face
Reno by accident. Other changes to fix Cloud/
Aerith interaction with Reno

chrin_2: Fixes issue that led to removal of Gongaga cut-scene

condor2: Losing cut-scene properly scripted and localized

cosin1_1: Fixes Barret infinite Love Points bug

del1: Allows player to talk to NPC on boat

delinn: Fixes incorrect behaviour with Barrett cutscene

elminn_1: Inserts missing Barret dialogue
if not in party when receiving PHS

elmin4_2: Fixes old man's dialogue so that all three are shown

fr_e: Possibly to correct animation speed during FMV

fship_4: Fixes menu access bug after talking with Yuffie

gongaga: Tifa/Aerith Love Points
check is now >40 and not >120

goson: Fixes the mayor's dialogue to show up correctly

hyou8_2: Fixes infinite Elixir issue

jtemplb: Aerith/Cloud now correctly exclaim at the same time

las2_1: Removes stupid "secret cow"
             added with 2012 version

lastmap: FMV is now full length and not chopped

min51_1: Some TV dialogues originally
had little chance of being seen

mrkt2: Fixes jittery scrolling on first entry to Wallmarket

mtnvl3: Second soldier's dialogue is now accessible

nmkin_2: Door will now open and shut for Jessie

ncorel: Allows player to talk to NPC at shop

psdun_2: Enables Aerith's dialogue when skipping Kalm

sichi: When proceeding north,
         you are not returned to world map

sky: Scene can no longer hang due to bad async

trnad_2: Missing Cloud scene reinstated

trnad_4: MP Turbo materia is now blue instead of yellow

EDIT 2: I spoke to DLPB about the Beacause portion of his Reunion mod. Toughscript is stopping its field map patching at around 195/729 or 196/729. It's tough to say for sure because it closes too quickly to see the exact number and there is not form of logging. DLPB says that Toughscript will do this when there is an error in the field script. I would like to work with you on getting Reunion Beacause to install over top of it and get it working together with New Threat. If we can get that flevel to be patched correctly, then using WallMarket and Proud Clod to patch the kernels and scene bin files is easy enough to teach you.

Is that asking too much?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-02 23:03:50
Let's see:

Code: [Select]
ancnt1 / ancnt4: Corrects Vincent's animation
-) Also fixed

blin67_2:  Fixes Tifa infinite Love Points bug
-) Was aware of it but never got round to it.

canon_2: Fixes story skipping glitch
-) Also fixed

chrin_1b: Aerith missing dialogue in dream sequence
reinstated Cloud/Aerith no longer turn to face
Reno by accident. Other changes to fix Cloud/
Aerith interaction with Reno
-) Wasn't aware these were errors. I've got a big change on this screen as it's used for an alternate ending screen.

chrin_2: Fixes issue that led to removal of Gongaga cut-scene
-) If this is the scene/convo with Barret in Gongaga, then also fixed.

condor2: Losing cut-scene properly scripted and localized
-) I think I reformatted the dialogue here because it didn't fit the windows properly.

cosin1_1: Fixes Barret infinite Love Points bug
-) Didn't know there was one.

del1: Allows player to talk to NPC on boat
-) Nope.

delinn: Fixes incorrect behaviour with Barrett cutscene
-) Wasn't aware there was an error here.

elminn_1: Inserts missing Barret dialogue
if not in party when receiving PHS
-) This was missing? I remember seeing this dialogue naturally. Maybe PS1?

elmin4_2: Fixes old man's dialogue so that all three are shown
-) No, but I've revised the script/text to handle three new battles here.

fr_e: Possibly to correct animation speed during FMV
-) Not done anything here but add Aeris.

fship_4: Fixes menu access bug after talking with Yuffie
-) Never knew that was a thing. Just added the command to fix it now.

gongaga: Tifa/Aerith Love Points
check is now >40 and not >120
-) I think I adjusted that check as well.

goson: Fixes the mayor's dialogue to show up correctly
-) Also fixed.

hyou8_2: Fixes infinite Elixir issue
-) Definitely fixed

jtemplb: Aerith/Cloud now correctly exclaim at the same time
-) Oh! Didn't know they were supposed to :O

las2_1: Removes stupid "secret cow"
             added with 2012 version
-) 1998 flevel so that's 'fixed' by default. Maybe I'll add an actual secret cow level...?

lastmap: FMV is now full length and not chopped
-) Didn't notice it was chopped. Script was adjusted here to handle Aeris.

min51_1: Some TV dialogues originally
had little chance of being seen
-) I'll check those out some time.

mrkt2: Fixes jittery scrolling on first entry to Wallmarket
-) Nothing I noticed.

mtnvl3: Second soldier's dialogue is now accessible
-) Nope.

nmkin_2: Door will now open and shut for Jessie
-) Have not fixed ghost Jessie's ability to phase through doors.

ncorel: Allows player to talk to NPC at shop
-) Not sure what this means; was a talk script busted?

psdun_2: Enables Aerith's dialogue when skipping Kalm
-) Oh yeah, this one. Don't think I fixed that one.

sichi: When proceeding north,
         you are not returned to world map
-) Wasn't aware that you could exit by the north, I always exited via the south.

sky: Scene can no longer hang due to bad async
-) Didn't know it could hang.

trnad_2: Missing Cloud scene reinstated
-) That when he says the line that Rufus and co. are here? Nah.

trnad_4: MP Turbo materia is now blue instead of yellow
-) Yeah, that always annoyed me too so I changed it to blue.

Edit 2: I read the post on the Reunion thread. If it's because of a script change (the scrolling thing) then how would I go about fixing that? That field (195) has some changes on it that are needed for some things to work like party leader swap + a countdown associated with the dark cave sidequest. I could apply the scrolling fix to that field manually, but wouldn't TS just crash there again anyway?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-03-03 00:03:11
That's what I'm not sure about. Toughscript doesn't have any kind of error logging, so you'll need to edit it and send that field map to me. I can put it into the flevel and test the Reunion install again.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-03 00:13:41
Ok, I'll compare it to a default field and then prepare a fresh one using the latest Makou tool.

Edit: I just tried running Reunion (the text + script fixes) over an NT data folder and it seems to have patched correctly. Thing is, it overwrites all the NT stuff.

What I don't understand is, how is this installer that was designed for the default flevel going to patch over a mod that has different script and different text without messing things up? One thing for example is how Reunion deletes all the blank/unused entries for text so those are all different, which I've got to assume means that anything added by NT for text is just going to be deleted or at least misplaced too?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-03 17:32:21
I have installed Reunion over NT and ATM is work well  :-D.
But Ive some problem to defeat the first Jenova, Ive a lv21 party and I make less damage than energy her can drain.How I can do?

Sorry bud, missed this post originally. Try using the Earth spell for 2x damage, or combine it into someone's weapon with Elemental for 2x physical attacks.

So NT + Reunion does work? I'm a little curious (and concerned) now; when I patched Reunion over NT, it overwrote all of the NT field code.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Gatchaman on 2015-03-04 10:04:08
Hey Chief! I'm as far as Rocket Town now, and on the way past Nibel I noticed that the Nibel wolves' "howling ability" is a lot of fun. Status effects like 'toad' still affect them when they revive, they are still "sense"d and (sadly) cannot be morphed for more tents. They do, however, give more EXP/AP for each KO, and so can be a nice way to grind a few levels if you are so cheesily inclined. With "haste" on the reviving buddy, the process approaches sonic speeds! Now I'm not sure how much of this was intentional, as monster-summoning battles are a staple of the series (for grinding), but I thought I'd share!
Really enjoying the changes, and I've been pleased with the number of battles that have caught me out a bit, but not actually killed me before I could adapt (like Powersoul Keeper), and I LOVE the Force Stealer! (Life steal is one of my most favourite effects ever- I love the Blood Sword)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-04 13:59:53
Yeah, Nibel Wolves (and Bandersnatches AKA Icicle Wolves) have AI that add their EXP onto a value whenever they're killed again. If they're proving handy for farming EXP I could add a new type for the Crater or something.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: indrema on 2015-03-04 19:01:16
Sorry bud, missed this post originally. Try using the Earth spell for 2x damage, or combine it into someone's weapon with Elemental for 2x physical attacks.

So NT + Reunion does work? I'm a little curious (and concerned) now; when I patched Reunion over NT, it overwrote all of the NT field code.
I'm alteady use Earth but do not remove more than 350hp, I will try it again.
I have apply NT on vanilla installation and reunion on NT, I've assumed it work cause do not crash.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-04 22:14:16
It's not really so much about crashes, but about missing content new to NT. For instance, did you fight the Turks in the Mythril Mines? There should have been a new mini-boss fight with Rude and Elena in there. But if that fight was missing, then there's a good chance that at some point you might encounter either a crash or the wrong boss (Jenova Death for instance).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: indrema on 2015-03-05 17:30:15
It's not really so much about crashes, but about missing content new to NT. For instance, did you fight the Turks in the Mythril Mines? There should have been a new mini-boss fight with Rude and Elena in there. But if that fight was missing, then there's a good chance that at some point you might encounter either a crash or the wrong boss (Jenova Death for instance).
Yes I've fight with Rude and Elena in Mythril Mines, but fom Reunion I install only some contents (in this case v. 03b):
      Options
         Version
            Old PC (1998)
      MENU OVERHAUL
         Without Break-9999HP patch
         Graphics
            World Map
               Based on original graphic
            Controller icons
               Playstation
            FeliX's credits background
      PATCHES
         Tweaks
            Battle
               Faster animation
               Faster enemy death
               Faster battle numbers
               Increase Sense limit
               No battle boxes
               No command box
            Field
               Default run
               Disable mouse support
               Gypt
         Cheats
            Invincible
            Lucky Cait
            Lucky Tifa
            No random battles
            Save/PHS anywhere
      OTHER
         Script fixes for flevel.lgp
         Fixes field fps to 30, instead of 32
         Change straight apostrophes in text to curly

Anyway for me the first Jenova boss remain too strong...
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-05 23:25:42
I put together a vid guide to give you a hand with Jenova Vector: http://youtu.be/vyK1MT5-42o

The video description runs through her attacks, weaknesses, and methods for dealing with each phase. One key thing to make use of is Barrier, your party's Row (casters should be in the back; only physical hitters with no long range weapon should ever be in the front row), and some of your new(ish) Materia like Gravity and Choco/Mog.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: indrema on 2015-03-06 10:05:43
I put together a vid guide to give you a hand with Jenova Vector: http://youtu.be/vyK1MT5-42o

The video description runs through her attacks, weaknesses, and methods for dealing with each phase. One key thing to make use of is Barrier, your party's Row (casters should be in the back; only physical hitters with no long range weapon should ever be in the front row), and some of your new(ish) Materia like Gravity and Choco/Mog.
WOW, I do it ;). TNX.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-03-08 00:49:06
Hey whats the current location of Stilva/Magic Breath? Did a lot of needless wandering in Gaea's Cliff tonight expecting I'd miss it if I pressed on too soon.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-08 03:04:02
Stilva is in the blue interior areas of Gaea's Cliff, specifically he should appear in the room where the Icicles land to form platforms. He might appear on other Gaea screens but that's the screen where he should appear for sure; however, he doesn't have Magic Breath anymore, just Beta. Magic Breath can be gotten from Malboros in the Crater.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: varzael on 2015-03-08 19:24:53
Hello Sefa Chief! I've run into a crash after installing the new patch and starting a new game. It occurs at the first scene: it crashes right when exit the first area (train station) to go to the next. A message came up saying something about 2 files so I upload them in case it helps (crash.dmp file). Btw, the game is of the classic version (4CD) and no other mod is installed.

PS: Before starting anew I had reached Wall Market. I can't say enough,your modification is blowing my mind away, thank you very much for the work you've put through :D

PS2: what the? Seems I can't find the button to upload stuff here. Once I get through this I'll post the crash.dmp file.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-08 20:35:28
Have you installed any other mods? The 2nd field screen uses a new field model (zzzy), that might have been overwritten/lost if you applied any mods that alter the way they look on field screens.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: ProtomanZxAdvent on 2015-03-09 03:39:39
might i suggest that if you can make a separate download for the new models that are required for this mod instead of automatically adding them to a full lgp file thus allowing the user to put them in the direct folder or having them apply the new models to there lgp file manually using luskys or krammers lgp program.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-09 05:40:27
Good idea, I'll get that together.

Edit: https://mega.co.nz/#!mhlS3ZRC!IbY3zHSpDp5CHYKwEdxyjEYD5sKLPYt3vLUAZlQbRHw

Let me know if that's what you're after; those two folders should contain only the battle and field models that are altered for NT and nothing else.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-09 20:08:07
Hi, i'm actually playing to the nt 1.2 (because no iro for the 1.3 in the 7th heaven's catalog yet :/ )
I am at the wutai's quest, and i just wanted to know because of playing 1.2 what i have missed and what i will miss (speak about fights, or items, materias...) that are in the 1.3 and aren't in 1.2?
Oh and i wanted to know is there any crash if i keep aerith in my team in disc 2 and 3 or all would be okay with her?
Thx for answer :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: ProtomanZxAdvent on 2015-03-09 21:59:35
yes these are what i needed
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-09 23:10:02
Hi, i'm actually playing to the nt 1.2 (because no iro for the 1.3 in the 7th heaven's catalog yet :/ )
I am at the wutai's quest, and i just wanted to know because of playing 1.2 what i have missed and what i will miss (speak about fights, or items, materias...) that are in the 1.3 and aren't in 1.2?
Oh and i wanted to know is there any crash if i keep aerith in my team in disc 2 and 3 or all would be okay with her?
Thx for answer :)

There aren't huge differences between 1.2 and 1.3, but there are a few:
-) Ultimate Weapons won't be available (acquired on Disc 3, unmissable)
-) Item drop/steals/Morphs are different; nothing's missable, but they were much better organised for 1.3
-) The dark cave sidequest, accessed on Disc 3, doesn't exist on 1.2 (can't be missed and will be accessible when updating to 1.3)
-) Extra Battle and Materia Cave bosses were swapped around a little and some were heavily tweaked to make the fights better
-) An early level cap of 40 may exist in the 1.2 version you have, which coupled with paltry EXP rewards may make it difficult to reach Lv.60 and onwards. The EXP arc will also be a little buggy going past Lv.61 and will start to jump up by 5 levels in places.
-) Equipment stats, etc. are different and not as focused on certain stats in 1.2; they're a bit all over the place and make it tricky to make dedicated builds for each character early on in the game.
-) Certain new Enemy Skills might not be available. Angel Whisper and Roulette were changed so that they had a more unique function (Angel Whisper was too similar to Full Cure and Life2, while Roulette was pretty much trash compared to the other instant death options like Remove).

Also, Aeris is fully functional for Disc 2 & 3; I added in all the field code, etc. required to make it work. I tweaked dialogue in one or two places as well to cover this, but it basically reads the same. One scene is very slightly different, from Bugenhagen's observatory, but again it's functionally identical to the original.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-10 07:24:25
Thx for your answer, is there any text file that speak about materia location, morph and steal's monsters?
Hope the catalog will be updating fast for updating my game in 1.3 and i see differences that you list
Anyway, i take a lot of pleasure with your mod , i will speak about my experience when i have the chance of playing to the 1.3 :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-10 13:31:40
There is a database, but it's for an unreleased version of 1.3; I haven't updated the files yet: https://mega.co.nz/#!D0FUWZLL!jv_ZZ_W30-x3XmNls83MJAp2ySSOuDzMp206aG8KOZ4

Materia locations should be the same, but the items, etc. will be different in 1.2.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-10 17:47:20
Thx will look at this, in the hope that 1.3 will coming fast in the 7th catalog :)
I played different ff7 mod, no doubt that in my opinion nt is the best one :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-10 18:17:25
There is no counter attack materia ?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-10 22:37:13
There is, did I forget to add it to the database? I'll double-check it now. Counter-Attack is now available only from Chocobo Racing either as an A-Rank prize or from that big prize you get for winning 15 S-Rank races.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Proxy on 2015-03-10 23:36:55
So, loving the changes so far, and figured I'd throw out some thoughts.  (I just got to Cosmo Canyon)

Full disclosure, I did not read all the preceding pages.  There were too many.  So there is a chance some of what I'm about to mention is already known.  Anyway...

1. The text that appears during fights when someone speaks goes by way too fast.  If I am not expecting it I don't get a chance to read it.  For example, I recently defeated a boxer enemy, and I have no idea what happened at the end of that fight, but someone said something.  I wonder if this is something on my end, because this is a very noticeable issue.

2. The fight with Reno and Rude where a unit is paralyzed was strange.  I tried to use remedy on the paralyzed unit and also tried to attack him to break it.  I don't remember what happened with the remedy, but attacking caused my ordered unit to attack reno instead.  I'm guessing I'm allowed to target him for the action, but not actually allowed to perform the action on him.  If this is the case, it might be less confusing to simply have the unit removed from battle completely, like the Zolom's tail whip.

3. Dyne did not attack me after his first attack.  A message kept popping up saying "MP depleted" or something to that effect.

4.  Most accessories are borderline useless.  This was also true in vanilla FF7.  Immune to sleep/darkness/whatever?  Those situations are so specific that they won't help unless you already lost because of that ailment and are retrying the fight.  Additionally, those effects can already be accomplished via materia + added effect (I would assume, I never used it, because as previously mentioned, useless).

5.  This is my personal gripe but: stat modifiers on materia.  Without modifiers, characters have some (not much) variation between each other stat-wise.  Barret is not as competent as Aeris at magic, but is still useable for casting if you need him (especially for spells which are infrequently cast or don't care about the magic stat).  He compensates with higher HP and attack.  With the modifiers on, putting materia on Barret will turn him into Aeris stat-wise, removing what little differentiation there was between them.  Off the top of my head I can't think of any negative consequences for taking these modifiers out.  Do you have any reason for keeping them in?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-03-11 04:07:56
as a fellow fan i want to reply to this post real quick to say that the accessories with status immunities are sometimes make or break for fights if you're a filthy casual like me, for instance today i did the gelnika reno/rude fight and the other day JENOVA-WAR and i absolutely had to use a peace ring and addedeffect-mystify combo to beat it. A lot of the misc status/elemental accessories also add stats now to make them competitive with throwing a champion belt on everyone

also some input for the materia gripes, the modifiers exist as a way to make magic casters even more powerful and round out or even give utility to tanky characters at a HP sacrifice, a lot of encounters now open with some pretty powerful attacks further emphasizing the need for preventative measures over damage output. i regularly run with a physical attacker and a multipurpose caster and offensive caster, sometimes even utilizing HP-MP, dont forget that in late game you can attain quite a few +1 STR materia to balance or even swing the other way. if any changes to materia should be made there should be -HP +Dex or -MP +SPI etc but this starts to get ridiculously messy when you make utility casters and their stats are all over the place, not to mention armor has stats on it now too!

ps when you get to the end of temple of the ancients i think you'll understand why the balance changes are the way they are, also make sure you keep destruct materia on someone at all times ;)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-11 06:09:54
So, loving the changes so far, and figured I'd throw out some thoughts.  (I just got to Cosmo Canyon)

Full disclosure, I did not read all the preceding pages.  There were too many.  So there is a chance some of what I'm about to mention is already known.  Anyway...

1. The text that appears during fights when someone speaks goes by way too fast.  If I am not expecting it I don't get a chance to read it.  For example, I recently defeated a boxer enemy, and I have no idea what happened at the end of that fight, but someone said something.  I wonder if this is something on my end, because this is a very noticeable issue.

2. The fight with Reno and Rude where a unit is paralyzed was strange.  I tried to use remedy on the paralyzed unit and also tried to attack him to break it.  I don't remember what happened with the remedy, but attacking caused my ordered unit to attack reno instead.  I'm guessing I'm allowed to target him for the action, but not actually allowed to perform the action on him.  If this is the case, it might be less confusing to simply have the unit removed from battle completely, like the Zolom's tail whip.

3. Dyne did not attack me after his first attack.  A message kept popping up saying "MP depleted" or something to that effect.

4.  Most accessories are borderline useless.  This was also true in vanilla FF7.  Immune to sleep/darkness/whatever?  Those situations are so specific that they won't help unless you already lost because of that ailment and are retrying the fight.  Additionally, those effects can already be accomplished via materia + added effect (I would assume, I never used it, because as previously mentioned, useless).

5.  This is my personal gripe but: stat modifiers on materia.  Without modifiers, characters have some (not much) variation between each other stat-wise.  Barret is not as competent as Aeris at magic, but is still useable for casting if you need him (especially for spells which are infrequently cast or don't care about the magic stat).  He compensates with higher HP and attack.  With the modifiers on, putting materia on Barret will turn him into Aeris stat-wise, removing what little differentiation there was between them.  Off the top of my head I can't think of any negative consequences for taking these modifiers out.  Do you have any reason for keeping them in?

Alright, so:

1. There's a setting in your Config Menu called 'Battle Message Speed'; if you've set this all the way up, then in-battle text will fly by in a split second rather than displaying for a couple of seconds. Adjusting this should fix the issue (midway is the default).

2. That's a status 'ailment' called imprisoned which handles units being removed from battle. I found that it 'locks' a character's damaged animation when used with an attack that doesn't eject the character from battle so I used it in this particular battle to create a 2v2 fight. It doesn't appear again, except for the Carry Armor battle when a party member is grabbed (like in default).

3. Odd that nobody reported that before. I'll check him out and see what's happened.

4. The idea with accessories that cover status ailments (and with Added Effect) is to give players more of an edge against bosses they have trouble with or to keep certain characters 'safe' while wandering around certain areas (Confusion on a caster tends to be bad news). But the problem with that in a mod with altered enemies is that players are effectively 'blind' going into fights, so it's not possible to have these equipped ahead of time without guessing. So one thing I've started to do is apply stat boosts to these accessories themselves to make them a bit more viable for blind runs. The changes to the elemental rings seem to have worked out quite well, so I'll be rolling it out to the ailment accessories as well. I think the pure stat-boost accessories might undergo some changes as well to bring a bit of extra diversity in.

5. I don't really agree that Materia equip effects can shorten the gap between characters very easily (maybe at lower levels it would though). You could put the same magic-orientated Materia load you have on Barret and give it to a dedicated caster instead for a lot more damage. The different stat bonuses in a character's weapon also widens that gap; Aeris and Vincent have weapons that boost Magic while Barret's looking at either a long range weapon or a +50Vit/Spr boost. I'll double check the stat trees though; I recently learned how to make my own stat trees rather than using the ones already in the kernel so I can customise them much more easily now.

But as far as Materia equip effects themselves go, the biggest problem I have with them is actually the opposite; they don't change stats enough. With the default equip effects, you can easily set up some pretty OP combos with little to no drawbacks. These equip effects though are stored in the game's .exe and while I do have a .exe patch that has changed these bonuses/penalties (among some other things), there are compatibility issues with other mods that use .exe edits (not to mention balance issues with NT enemies, etc.) that would come up if this was added to the mod as-is which is why it's not currently part of the mod. Instead I've got an Arrange mode in prototype that's going to be designed specifically for use with the .exe patch.

as a fellow fan i want to reply to this post real quick to say that the accessories with status immunities are sometimes make or break for fights if you're a filthy casual like me, for instance today i did the gelnika reno/rude fight and the other day JENOVA-WAR and i absolutely had to use a peace ring and addedeffect-mystify combo to beat it. A lot of the misc status/elemental accessories also add stats now to make them competitive with throwing a champion belt on everyone

also some input for the materia gripes, the modifiers exist as a way to make magic casters even more powerful and round out or even give utility to tanky characters at a HP sacrifice, a lot of encounters now open with some pretty powerful attacks further emphasizing the need for preventative measures over damage output. i regularly run with a physical attacker and a multipurpose caster and offensive caster, sometimes even utilizing HP-MP, dont forget that in late game you can attain quite a few +1 STR materia to balance or even swing the other way. if any changes to materia should be made there should be -HP +Dex or -MP +SPI etc but this starts to get ridiculously messy when you make utility casters and their stats are all over the place, not to mention armor has stats on it now too!

ps when you get to the end of temple of the ancients i think you'll understand why the balance changes are the way they are, also make sure you keep destruct materia on someone at all times ;)

I've been making quite a few equip effects that alter stats like Dex, Spirit, etc. to better personalise certain Materia. If yourself or anyone else wants in on the closed beta for Arrange when it's ready then let me know.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-11 07:32:23
In data base counter attack location Is n/a that s why i ask where can i find it :p
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-11 14:30:43
I see, I better fix that.

Counter Attack materia is won from the Chocobo Races. Either as a random prize or as part of the prize pack you get for winning 15 S-Rank Races with your own chocobo.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-03-11 15:00:18
Counter Attack is only available in Rank A in my experience, once you win your 3 matches you're out of luck if you didn't get it. You can only then get the one from winning 15 S races. Tried for an hour to get a Precious Watch btw, consider removing the less powerful prizes (phoenix down, throwing items) from Rank S if you want to speed up time spent racing?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-11 16:30:45
Counter Attack is only available in Rank A in my experience, once you win your 3 matches you're out of luck if you didn't get it. You can only then get the one from winning 15 S races. Tried for an hour to get a Precious Watch btw, consider removing the less powerful prizes (phoenix down, throwing items) from Rank S if you want to speed up time spent racing?

The chocobo prizes are hard-coded into the .exe itself, so it'd need an .exe patch to change them. I can alter what items are awarded on the field screen, but it wouldn't be ideal if the old names are being displayed in the minigame itself.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-11 18:05:35
Race chocobo... I will not get counter attack before a long time lol
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-11 18:10:40
Anyway, i got the time for go to disc 2 and 3, i'm waiting for the 1.3 in the catalog as far as i can lol
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Proxy on 2015-03-11 23:55:05
5. I don't really agree that Materia equip effects can shorten the gap between characters very easily (maybe at lower levels it would though). You could put the same magic-orientated Materia load you have on Barret and give it to a dedicated caster instead for a lot more damage. The different stat bonuses in a character's weapon also widens that gap; Aeris and Vincent have weapons that boost Magic while Barret's looking at either a long range weapon or a +50Vit/Spr boost. I'll double check the stat trees though; I recently learned how to make my own stat trees rather than using the ones already in the kernel so I can customise them much more easily now.
I probably could have elaborated more.  The +/-C to Str/Mag/etc is irrelevant.  When an accessory can give +50 Vit, losing a couple from materia doesn't mean anything.  In fact, the lack of effect of those would be a reason to remove them.
The +/-C% on HP/MP however, is very relevant.  A couple +/-10% materias can turn a high HP/low MP tank to a low HP/high MP caster, for no apparent reason.

But as far as Materia equip effects themselves go, the biggest problem I have with them is actually the opposite; they don't change stats enough. With the default equip effects, you can easily set up some pretty OP combos with little to no drawbacks. These equip effects though are stored in the game's .exe and while I do have a .exe patch that has changed these bonuses/penalties (among some other things), there are compatibility issues with other mods that use .exe edits (not to mention balance issues with NT enemies, etc.) that would come up if this was added to the mod as-is which is why it's not currently part of the mod. Instead I've got an Arrange mode in prototype that's going to be designed specifically for use with the .exe patch.
Could you elaborate on this a little more?  Are you saying you want stat penalties for materia instead of just changes, or do you just want to magnify the changes?  Currently, there is no drawback for equipping Ifrit, your stats don't get worse, they just change.  Stat penalties would be more like "In exchange for gaining the ability to summon Ifrit, you lose 20 Str."
If stat penalties is what you were going for, I think that sounds like a good idea.  It would encourage only equipping materia that is needed, instead of throwing random materia into spare slots just to gain AP on them.
If that's not what you were getting that, then I don't think I understood what you are trying to say.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: ProtomanZxAdvent on 2015-03-12 03:56:14
i've beaten the game with this mod i must say it was a nice challenge i would report bugs but its stuff thats already been said with it so i will wait untill the final release of this mod to test again
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-12 07:24:12
i've beaten the game with this mod i must say it was a nice challenge i would report bugs but its stuff thats already been said with it so i will wait untill the final release of this mod to test again

I gotta say, that was quick. It'll be a while before the mod reaches it's final release, but there's an Arrange mode I'm working on that might be worth a whirl in a few weeks when it's done. It'll be using the .exe patch and I'm going to adjust some of the mod's content to freshen things up for returning players. Cheers for playing the mod, bud; glad you enjoyed it.

I probably could have elaborated more.  The +/-C to Str/Mag/etc is irrelevant.  When an accessory can give +50 Vit, losing a couple from materia doesn't mean anything.  In fact, the lack of effect of those would be a reason to remove them.
The +/-C% on HP/MP however, is very relevant.  A couple +/-10% materias can turn a high HP/low MP tank to a low HP/high MP caster, for no apparent reason.

I agree with that, the default materia equip effects as far as the regular stats go are pretty inconsequential. In NT, some might seem a bit out of place (like the -1 to Luck that I think Steal or Sense has). That's because each Materia has been assigned a particular 'set' of equip effects that won't pay off until the .exe patch is applied, which was originally just going to be an optional extra rather than the basis for the alternate mode called Arrange. Now that the .exe patch is going to be designed for a separate set of files, I can probably adjust the ones in the Regular NT back to what they were or I could run some tests and see how things go with 'blank' equip effects for everything.

Could you elaborate on this a little more?  Are you saying you want stat penalties for materia instead of just changes, or do you just want to magnify the changes?  Currently, there is no drawback for equipping Ifrit, your stats don't get worse, they just change.  Stat penalties would be more like "In exchange for gaining the ability to summon Ifrit, you lose 20 Str."
If stat penalties is what you were going for, I think that sounds like a good idea.  It would encourage only equipping materia that is needed, instead of throwing random materia into spare slots just to gain AP on them.
If that's not what you were getting that, then I don't think I understood what you are trying to say.

That's basically what I'm aiming to do; I want to make Materia set-ups something that have to be considered carefully and which makes spammable/throw-away combos like 5x Counter Attack or a Mime chain either impractical or at the very least unstable. If the player is going to use Quadra-Magic + Bahamut ZERO with W-Summon along with other things like Command Counter + Mime then I want there to be serious drawbacks to that which need to be taken into account and that's where heftier stat penalties come in. The initial impressions I got from people running the .exe patch a while ago was very promising so now I want to run with it and make an alternate version of NT that's been designed around it, along with other adjustments possible through the .exe.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: ProtomanZxAdvent on 2015-03-12 16:35:27
I gotta say, that was quick. It'll be a while before the mod reaches it's final release, but there's an Arrange mode I'm working on that might be worth a whirl in a few weeks when it's done. It'll be using the .exe patch and I'm going to adjust some of the mod's content to freshen things up for returning players. Cheers for playing the mod, bud; glad you enjoyed it.
Well i've gotten so used to jrpgs now that its almost to dam easy to figure things out without a guide
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Alfarjamie on 2015-03-13 09:28:17
so the IRO on 7th heaven for 1.2 you cannot get ultimate weapons ever? or?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-13 10:05:56
No, but save 1.2 are compatible with 1.3, and the 1.3 could be updating in the catalog as soon as this weekend :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Alfarjamie on 2015-03-13 10:30:35
well ive been streaming this mod daily on twitch hopefully it will be updated by the time i get to disc 3 then lol
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-13 10:41:12
I am at the end of disc 1 so no problem for me but i can understand you and i hope too this coming this week :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-13 15:44:36
The Ultimate Weapons aren't missable in any case, same with the other stuff added in for 1.3. Wherever you are in your run, they should all still be obtainable.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-13 20:44:43
hey sega chief

just a quick question, is there anyway you could add ultros as a boss on your ff7 NT mod?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-13 22:29:50
Could be tricky, but we'll see.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-13 23:18:50
Ultros :D
I saw in videos that in nt there is special battle with special music (like ultimecia music in dark cave), i use an anxious mod music, with this mod activate are thoose special music still here or have i to desactivate my music's mod to have thoose special music in thoose secial battles?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-13 23:23:21
The music used is still the normal tracks so it should work fine; it might be that the video had been given different music in editing (if it's LCP's vids then that's definitely the case, he heavily edits his videos).
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-14 12:45:21
hey Sega chief

after you beat the crab in the dark cave sidequest

when you get into a random battle battle, the boss music plays insted of the regular random battle music

can you fix that problem please
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-14 13:32:33
Ah okay, well i suggest you when tou have the tie for to make your own play list for your mod (for example put ff8 battle boss for the boss, ff9 battle random for random´s battle, take music from other game lile chrono cross for replacing music in ff7...) that's could be funny :p
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-14 15:31:19
hey Sega chief

after you beat the crab in the dark cave sidequest

when you get into a random battle battle, the boss music plays insted of the regular random battle music

can you fix that problem please

I forgot about that; it's easy enough to fix so I'll include it whenever the next update goes out.

Ah okay, well i suggest you when tou have the tie for to make your own play list for your mod (for example put ff8 battle boss for the boss, ff9 battle random for random´s battle, take music from other game lile chrono cross for replacing music in ff7...) that's could be funny :p

Could do that, I guess. But it would have to be a strictly optional thing. There was a way to get rotating BGM like in N7 for more tracks, but I've no idea how that was accomplished; it was an .exe hack, I think.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-03-14 17:08:52
Quote
Could do that, I guess. But it would have to be a strictly optional thing. There was a way to get rotating BGM like in N7 for more tracks, but I've no idea how that was accomplished; it was an .exe hack, I think.

You can do that with 7H. If we know the var for the battle it would be quite easy to replace music by a specific battle. I have already looked for interesting music to enhance a few scenes.

Speaking of enhancements:
Instead of fighting against Zack/Zax why not figth with him against the Shinra soldiers like in CC?
I have made already the battle model of him... I don't wan't to go into the details here but in the end Cloud will learn Omnislash from this memory.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-14 17:29:11
You can do that with 7H. If we know the var for the battle it would be quite easy to replace music by a specific battle. I have already looked for interesting music to enhance a few scenes.

The battles have vars?

Speaking of enhancements:
Instead of fighting against Zack/Zax why not figth with him against the Shinra soldiers like in CC?
I have made already the battle model of him... I don't wan't to go into the details here but in the end Cloud will learn Omnislash from this memory.

Not a bad idea, would be more interesting than the 1v1 I've got at the moment.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-14 22:57:15
hey sega chief

is there anyway you could lower the price on the gold saucer lifetime pass please

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-03-15 16:03:55
http://www.twitch.tv/cicadian/c/6326513

bug report: beat super saver boss, decided to talk to the shop anyways, game soft locked
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 16:27:39
Looks like a countdown timer interfered with it; I'll restore that scene to an earlier version and block access to the stores for the event it's related to.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-15 16:29:28
hey

is there anyway i could lower the price of the gold saucer lifetime pass on your ff7 NT mod
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 16:48:57
I suppose so.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-15 16:50:16
hey sega chief

how can i lower the price then

what program do i need to download to do that
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-15 17:41:40
Hey,
i just beat jenova death, but cloud and aerith have still their 1.2 limits is it normal?
In other way, tifa have already her 3.1 limit
i'm still in nt 1.2, maybe do you change that in 1.3?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: indrema on 2015-03-15 17:43:20
After install March scene hotfix I cant spell recovery magic anymore. The materia are correctly configurate but are not usable in game or in menu.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Lionsmane on 2015-03-15 18:34:21
Hey Sega I'm loving the mod so far,

Do you have any news on when the iro for 1.3 should be ready? I just left Midgar and don't want to miss too much of your updates from 1.2 to 1.3

Thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 18:51:08
The .IRO is handled by Alyza in her catalog; last I heard was that there was a problem getting Reunion's translated script to compile properly on it but because Touph Script doesn't have error-handling I've no idea what the actual problem is that needs to be fixed, just that it crashes when it reaches certain field screens.

After install March scene hotfix I cant spell recovery magic anymore. The materia are correctly configurate but are not usable in game or in menu.

Someone had this problem recently, it appears that using certain spell orders can cause them to vanish from menus. Try using the default spell order setting for now while I look into getting it fixed/setting it back to normal.

Hey,
i just beat jenova death, but cloud and aerith have still their 1.2 limits is it normal?
In other way, tifa have already her 3.1 limit
i'm still in nt 1.2, maybe do you change that in 1.3?

It's normal, but I should probably change it. When I was looking at ways to 'balance' limit breaks without the .exe patch, the only thing that came to mind was adjusting how much HP damage is required to fill the gauge and adjusting how many kills are needed to learn each Limit level. Unfortunately, I've probably set the count for Cloud and Aeris too high, but I think I reduced it again for 1.3.

hey sega chief

how can i lower the price then

what program do i need to download to do that

You need Makou Reactor. Download the program and then right-click on the program's .exe and set it to run as Admin. Then open the game's flevel (located in the field folder) and go to field 496 (called 'gldst'). The Group NPC No. 15, called 's1' has the gold ticket price. Click on her talk script, and then click 'expand the tree' to show the entire script. Go to line 65 (should be blue) and double-click it; change that 30,000 to whatever price you want and click OK. The next thing to change is line 72; double-click this and change that 30,000 to your new price as well.

The dialog will read the same (30,000) but mechanically the game will check for and extract the new price. Click the save icon and hopefully it should save the changes.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-15 19:32:09
About 1.3 message from alyza :
I wanted to get Reunion Beacause to work with New Threat and all the other gameplay mods, but I'm having difficulty getting the battle scenes to show the correct encounters. I think I'm going to put this project on hold and keep working on that for another update down the road. So you should see the Catalog update as soon as this weekend.
Weekend passed but no news, but it seems that 1.3 will coming in a couple of days in the catalog now :)

Thx for answer about limits, hope i will unlock fast limits for cloud and aerith now lol, and hope that you reduce kills needed for unlocking in 1.3 :p
In other hand, my tifa is at 3.1 limit and she fern all bosses as hell x)

About some character, are there still useless in end game with their limits ?
(Vincent is uncontrolable, red 13 have only 5 hits dmmage and caith sith´s roulet is useless too in my opinion in end game)
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: levantine on 2015-03-15 19:37:30
Oh an other question :
I still have lvl 2 materia fire earth... Is it as difficult as in 1.2 to get lvl 3 materia in 1.3?
Title: Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
Post by: Gatchaman on 2015-03-15 19:43:02
(Old quote, I know) ;)

-) Great Glacier: Fixed an issue with the map recording/recalling group Cloud's position/direction rather than party leader #0. Fixed that and Snow's turn script to face party leader BUT found an interesting issue on the World Map. If Cid or Tifa are behind Icicle Inn and they approach, the game has a script to 'bounce' them away and prevent entry. Sort of same thing with Great Glacier, it just blocks access when either these two are displayed on the world map. It can be fixed by PHSing Cloud in as he'll replaced either on the world map but this could be a problem for the period of time when he's missing. So gonna fix that up.


Just popped in to say this caught me out- wandering around with Tifa as party leader doing odd stuff [[EDIT]: Cloud is in the lifestream, this wasn't clear when I first wrote this], decided to go back to Great Glacier to get the materia I'd left behind, and I managed to ignore the villager's warning about not going boarding, and do it anyway (as Cloud). The bouncy wall stopped me from getting back to Icicle Inn on the way back. I was able to enter the Glacier through boarding, obviously, but once I left I couldn't get back inside. (Holzoff did successfully stop me from going up to the Cliff, though)
Luckily I've been keeping regular saves, so this wasn't a big problem!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Lionsmane on 2015-03-15 19:51:21
Hmmm now I'm torn between doing a fresh install and running the mod exe with other mods by hand or waiting for the 7h update. Sega, does nt include any character or npc model upgrades? 

Thanks again
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 19:57:56
About 1.3 message from alyza :
I wanted to get Reunion Beacause to work with New Threat and all the other gameplay mods, but I'm having difficulty getting the battle scenes to show the correct encounters. I think I'm going to put this project on hold and keep working on that for another update down the road. So you should see the Catalog update as soon as this weekend.
Weekend passed but no news, but it seems that 1.3 will coming in a couple of days in the catalog now :)

Thx for answer about limits, hope i will unlock fast limits for cloud and aerith now lol, and hope that you reduce kills needed for unlocking in 1.3 :p
In other hand, my tifa is at 3.1 limit and she fern all bosses as hell x)

About some character, are there still useless in end game with their limits ?
(Vincent is uncontrolable, red 13 have only 5 hits dmmage and caith sith´s roulet is useless too in my opinion in end game)

Thanks for the info; I need to try and learn more about how 7H works these days so I can help out more with it and avoid causing problems.

Tifa's reels are part of what people don't like about the character, hence the 'Lucky Reels' mod for her limits. For NT, they have a very short charge to make up for it and thanks to her boosted strength it seems they've done the trick.

The other characters, however, are a bit trickier without hard edits. Red's Cosmo Memory has the shortest charge of any Lv.4 Limit but it'll never be as useful without changes. Vince I tried to set up his limits so all three were on each Limit level with different charge times but it didn't work out as each character can only have so many Limits. Cait Sith I gave him his Transform Reel outcome as an extra Lv.1 Limit but Lv.2 and beyond seem to be hard-coded to start up Slots, unfortunately.

(Old quote, I know) ;)
Just popped in to say this caught me out- wandering around with Tifa as party leader doing odd stuff [[EDIT]: Cloud is in the lifestream, this wasn't clear when I first wrote this], decided to go back to Great Glacier to get the materia I'd left behind, and I managed to ignore the villager's warning about not going boarding, and do it anyway (as Cloud). The bouncy wall stopped me from getting back to Icicle Inn on the way back. I was able to enter the Glacier through boarding, obviously, but once I left I couldn't get back inside. (Holzoff did successfully stop me from going up to the Cliff, though)
Luckily I've been keeping regular saves, so this wasn't a big problem!

Oh-ho, looks like I forgot to do something about that. It's very peculiar, I can't really think why there'd be a handler on the world map to prevent access to a town for a particular party member (unless it's accessing some script accidentally like, say, the wee script that runs to move you away from the Highwind when Diamond Weapon is about to surface).

What's supposed to happen is that the dude outright prevents you from boarding when Tifa or Cid are party leader, but this was changed to cover the Disc 3 stuff. It'd probably be unusual for players to try and get back to the Glacier during that period of time, but I'd better do something about it (and I'll actually do it this time :x)

Hmmm now I'm torn between doing a fresh install and running the mod exe with other mods by hand or waiting for the 7h update. Sega, does nt include any character or npc model upgrades? 

Thanks again

It comes with an unreleased field model set for the story characters that Kalderasha made. They're basically the original chibi-style, but edited to look a lot more closer to their promotional art (for instance, Cloud's outfit is darker rather than a light purple and Kald cut some details into it like the belt, an actual shoulder pauldron, etc.). As for battle models, they haven't been changed.

But about the mod's .exe, that's a prototype that hasn't been specced to the mod properly. In other words, the game will likely get very hard due to the Materia penalties. Arrange is going to be a properly specced mod that works better with the .exe, but that's a few weeks away from being released.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Gatchaman on 2015-03-15 20:18:07
Another bug! Still running around as Tifa during Cloud's lifestream surfing time, I've gone upstairs in Tifa's house in Nibelheim to get the Elemental materia from the piano, which all works fine- but Tifa isn't visible while upstairs.
 Piling on the work for you! (As stated before, and as you can guess from the fact I'm still playing, I'm really enjoying your mod, Chief!)
EDIT: Also, I just got spooked by a model of Cloud standing in his house! Talking to him, he says "It's just like my house, But something's off." Yeah, dude, you're not supposed to be here!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 20:30:56
Another bug! Still running around as Tifa during Cloud's lifestream surfing time, I've gone upstairs in Tifa's house in Nibelheim to get the Elemental materia from the piano, which all works fine- but Tifa isn't visible while upstairs.
 Piling on the work for you! (As stated before, and as you can guess from the fact I'm still playing, I'm really enjoying your mod, Chief!)
EDIT: Also, I just got spooked by a model of Cloud standing in his house! Talking to him, he says "It's just like my house, But something's off." Yeah, dude, you're not supposed to be here!

Are you playing 1.2 of 7H? I think I fixed that for 1.3.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-15 20:51:47
hey sega cheif

big error glitch, when i use the summons on your NT mod

the summons names do not show up at top of the screen when the party members summons them
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Lionsmane on 2015-03-15 20:58:55
Hmm so you're saying that the 7h version is more stable than the main installer? I guess I'll wait it out with 7h then
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 21:32:15
They're more or less the same; just some teething problems to iron out.

hey sega cheif

big error glitch, when i use the summons on your NT mod

the summons names do not show up at top of the screen when the party members summons them

I'm testing summons now but they're displaying the name of their attacks correctly.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-15 21:40:27
hey sega chief

sorry for keep on bothering you like this

about i have another problem

i beat air buster on your dark cave side quest

and after the fight, he gave me the wrong keycard

he gave me keycard 68 insted of keycard 66

and when i have the keycard 68, it won't allow me to go through the door on the 68th floor either
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 21:48:54
It's actually Keycard 66 he drops, but I've made a mistake with the text (just changed it); you should have access to Floor 66 which will let you reach Floor 67 through the stairs. When you get there, take the elevator at the very back to reach Floor 68 (like you did originally when playing through the Shinra HQ for the first time) and look for Hojo. Beating that boss should open up Floor 69.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-15 21:50:18
hey Sega chief

i did not have access to floor 66, it was grayed out
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 21:50:52
Can you reach it from the stairs instead of the elevator?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-15 21:53:14
hey sega chief

i will pm you my VOD okay
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 22:09:14
I watched the VOD; you have to talk to Hojo inside the capsule (where you fought Sample HO512 and met Red XIII). Beating that boss unlocks the stairs for Floor 68 and 69.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Gatchaman on 2015-03-15 22:14:51
Are you playing 1.2 of 7H? I think I fixed that for 1.3.
I'm playing 1.3 from your installer- not using 7th Heaven.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-15 22:22:41
I'm playing 1.3 from your installer- not using 7th Heaven.

That's very strange. I made changes there and tested them; I guess I missed something?

Status Report  :-X

-) Talking to Cloud as Cloud in his house (...): Should be fixed, I imported a default field screen and ran around in there.

-) Vanishing Tifa in her house: She appears to be visible on Disc 2 & 3 in my game; not sure what could have happened.

-) Icicle Inn Thing: I'm doing two things here; first, I'm restoring the handler that prevents Tifa and Cid from going down to the Great Glacier while Cloud isn't in the party. The second thing is setting up the big ice helter-skelter (the one that lets you leave Great Glacier immediately) so that it drops you inside Icicle Inn instead.

-) Spell Order: This has been fixed; I found a set-up that's not too disorganised and which uses the original's numbering. One oddity I learned about the default game is that while the game lists three types of magic, it actually groups them into four. The fourth group is the 'extreme' magic, Contain, Ultima, FullCure, Comet/Comet2, and Shield. No matter what spell order you pick, these remain at the bottom. What I'd tried to do with the previous patch was place these spells in the three groups that are moved around (Attack, Restore, and Indirect) which is what likely caused some spells to vanish with certain configurations. I've learned my lesson and put them back to how they were  :|

-) Keycard Fiasco: While it's possible to progress through here as-is, it's confusing as all hell so I've made the following change.
When heading up through Shinra HQ, Air Buster now gives Keycard 66 AND 68. This unlocks the doors for the stairwell. I've also added the handler for the elevator so that can be used too.

When defeating Hojo on Floor 68 (he's in the specimen container where Sample HO512 is fought), Floor 69 is unlocked. Unfortunately, there's no actual key-item called Keycard 69 so instead I've added a message and chime informing the player that all floors have been unlocked. That should take care of it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Lionsmane on 2015-03-16 00:19:09
if im changing from 1.2 with 7h to 1.3, do i need to have my old saves back in their right folder before running the 1.3 installer? or will they work and run 1.3 properly if i just drop them into the save folder after installing 1.3? i might have goofed
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-16 00:23:28
Save files should work with anything, unless the format for them have been changed by 7H somehow (the installer shouldn't touch them one way or another, but keep a back-up folder of them just in case). One thing though, I don't know if the regular NT installer will be able to correctly patch an installation that's been converted by 7H (I think the folders are laid out differently).

As for compatibility, they should be okay. You might see some visual glitches with EXP if you're high level (40+) that will resolve themselves when you level up with that character once.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Lionsmane on 2015-03-16 00:27:27
Ah I just saved my save files but did a fresh install before running your nt main installer so I should be fine. Thanks for the quick replies man you rock
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-16 00:30:19
hey sega chief

you forgot to update your patch files with the new keycard changes and stuff
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-16 00:32:13
Ah I just saved my save files but did a fresh install before running your nt main installer so I should be fine. Thanks for the quick replies man you rock

No prob, bud. Hope it works out, but get in touch if there's problems.

hey sega chief

you forgot to update your patch files with the new keycard changes and stuff

I haven't finished with all the fixes yet; I want to get them all done in the one go. You can still complete the Dark Cave sidequest without the patch; look for Hojo on Floor 68. In any case, the patch will be complete soon.

Edit: That's the patches up:

Fixed the following:
-) Talking to Cloud as Cloud in his house (...): Fixed for good this time  :x

-) Vanishing Tifa in her house: I couldn't find an issue here, so we'll need to see what happens.

-) Icicle Inn Thing: The helter-skelter now leads back to Icicle Inn directly which avoids the weird 'blocking' problem and also acts as a nice short-cut. Tifa and Cid can no longer access the Great Glacier while Cloud is out of action.

-) Spell Order: This has been fixed + tested; it appears that spell order doesn't update until the menu is closed and then re-opened which is what tricked me the last time.

-) Keycard Fiasco: Fixed it up & tested.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: SenMithrarin85 on 2015-03-16 13:06:44
Hey, Sega! Let me just thank you for this awesome mod! I have noticed some issues that may or may not have been mentioned before:

1) There is a new npc in the first area of fort condor (cave section as soon as you enter from world map) that cannot be interacted with. Is this intended?
2) There is a dialogue typo that does not exist without this mod. The infamous "this guy are sick" when Aeris talks about the guy in the pipe. Your mod reads "this guy am sick" with unmodded steam it is "this guy is sick".
3) When you beat the guard scorpion in the corel prison junkyard screen (fight that triggers after examining the dead guy on the ground), the music you used for the fight continues to be used for normal encounters afterwards insead of regular battle music.
4) I like the new chibi models you used, but cloud's model on the world map is still the vanilla one with light purple clothes rather than the dark purple ones on the kalderasha model. Can you possibly correct this?
5) This may be my fault, but I can no longer tell (without prior knowledge) which of Barret's weapons are long-range. It doesn't say in the weapon description anymore from what I can see.
6) This is just a general question. When you release a patch, do they include prior fixes or just new ones? Example: you put out patches on the 11th and 13th of march, and again on the 16th of march. Do the 16-3 patches contain the fixes released on the 11-3 and 13-3 or do I need to keep the old patches too? Sorry if I haven't explained myself very well  :(

Thanks and keep up the great work!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Lionsmane on 2015-03-16 16:00:50
Has anyone had luck using this mod after installing with bootleg?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-16 16:35:05
Hey, Sega! Let me just thank you for this awesome mod! I have noticed some issues that may or may not have been mentioned before:

1) There is a new npc in the first area of fort condor (cave section as soon as you enter from world map) that cannot be interacted with. Is this intended?
2) There is a dialogue typo that does not exist without this mod. The infamous "this guy are sick" when Aeris talks about the guy in the pipe. Your mod reads "this guy am sick" with unmodded steam it is "this guy is sick".
3) When you beat the guard scorpion in the corel prison junkyard screen (fight that triggers after examining the dead guy on the ground), the music you used for the fight continues to be used for normal encounters afterwards insead of regular battle music.
4) I like the new chibi models you used, but cloud's model on the world map is still the vanilla one with light purple clothes rather than the dark purple ones on the kalderasha model. Can you possibly correct this?
5) This may be my fault, but I can no longer tell (without prior knowledge) which of Barret's weapons are long-range. It doesn't say in the weapon description anymore from what I can see.
6) This is just a general question. When you release a patch, do they include prior fixes or just new ones? Example: you put out patches on the 11th and 13th of march, and again on the 16th of march. Do the 16-3 patches contain the fixes released on the 11-3 and 13-3 or do I need to keep the old patches too? Sorry if I haven't explained myself very well  :(

Thanks and keep up the great work!

Alrighty-

1) This guy is a placeholder for something I want to implement in the future; basically, it'd eliminate the need to back-track to Fort Condor for each iteration of the mini-game (basically you'd talk to an NPC set in a town to be warped back to Condor and this guy will warp you back to where you were once the minigame is done). I should have probably set him to be invisible until this is completed.

2) But these guy are sick.

3) Aye, that's me forgetting to set the battle music back to the regular theme. It corrects itself if you leave the screen and return.

4) I basically didn't add the world map in order to keep the installer size down + avoid potential conflicts with people using world map mods. But I could make a small optional patch for it; I'll try and upload that today.

5) If it has any suggestion of a projectile in it's name (i.e gun, bazooka, Launcher, Ray, etc.) then it's long range. That being said, a few are a little ambiguous to an extent. Heavy Vulcan or Missing Score for instance. The thing is, I removed the Long Range from the text in order to clear space in the kernel for other things. I might have some head-room left to add it back in, though.

6) Aye, all the fixes are compiled together. It's basically the latest version of the files that're being patched in, rather than just individual fixes.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-03-16 16:46:48
for the guns just annote them "LR" instead of Long Range, im sure most players would know what that means

heads up special battle crash #2 this time with the robot golem guy after mongo
http://www.twitch.tv/cicadian/c/6333795
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-16 16:52:39
hey sega chief

while i was fighting bottomswell in the dark cave sidequest yesterday

my game softlocked on me on that boss fight
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-16 17:10:07
for the guns just annote them "LR" instead of Long Range, im sure most players would know what that means

heads up special battle crash #2 this time with the robot golem guy after mongo
http://www.twitch.tv/cicadian/c/6333795

I guess Battle Square isn't stable enough with a full party. I'll set Special Battle to be a regular 'boss-rush' kind of thing without the reels or BP; it'd be a bit tough for a solo character.

hey sega chief

while i was fighting bottomswell in the dark cave sidequest yesterday

my game softlocked on me on that boss fight

I'll check it out.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-16 17:13:06
hey sega chief

it did not freeze for me with that full party at the special battle arena side quest

i went all the way to the champion without the game softlocking
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-16 17:16:57
hey sega chief

it did not freeze for me with that full party at the special battle arena side quest

i went all the way to the champion without the game softlocking

Yeah, sometimes it'll be fine but sometimes it'll crash. I can't figure out what the cause is, and it seems that it can happen at any time, so I'm assuming it's got something to do with how Battle Square works with the party (some odd effects have been going on when the full party is there instead of just a solo character). I can easily set it up so that the reels aren't present which would likely eliminate the issue altogether. I can set a fixed BP prize for the end as well.

As for the dark cave boss, I found the problem. A 0102 should have been a 0101. I'll upload the patch just now.

Edit: That's the hotfix patch uploaded with the Jormungandr fix in it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Lionsmane on 2015-03-16 22:03:11
Has anyone had luck using this mod after installing with bootleg?
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 00:02:17
hey sega chief

after beating mirge weapon 1 last time at the final end of your dark cave side quest

it softlocks and nobody appears at the battle scean at all, after mirge weapon is dead
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-03-17 02:06:55
Fresh new game started. I'll be taking my time with this run.

Testing out morph and was surprised at the morph item for Aero Combatant. Just to make sure, are they supposed to morph into Bird Wing? That's a pretty amazing item to be farm-able so early in the game.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 03:39:20
hey

I need some help on how to get past the glitch part at the end of the dark cave side quest please
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-03-17 07:06:00
on a whim i got convinced to check out the dark cave thing off camera, if you select no when you get the choice to go in or not the sequence bugs out slightly but will still go through, i didn't get further than the first like 2 minutes though so i look forward to doing it soon
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-17 07:18:37
Has anyone had luck using this mod after installing with bootleg?

I'm not sure, I think most of the time it doesn't work properly.

hey sega chief

after beating mirge weapon 1 last time at the final end of your dark cave side quest

it softlocks and nobody appears at the battle scean at all, after mirge weapon is dead

I thought I'd gotten that fixed. There's a handler in it to make him fly off the first time, but to die properly the second time. I'll look at it again.

Fresh new game started. I'll be taking my time with this run.

Testing out morph and was surprised at the morph item for Aero Combatant. Just to make sure, are they supposed to morph into Bird Wing? That's a pretty amazing item to be farm-able so early in the game.

That is a bit too good; not sure why I've went with that. I'll change it to something a little more appropriate for that stage of the game.

on a whim i got convinced to check out the dark cave thing off camera, if you select no when you get the choice to go in or not the sequence bugs out slightly but will still go through, i didn't get further than the first like 2 minutes though so i look forward to doing it soon

I'll check the 'No' handler again.

Edit: New scene patch is up.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 10:19:10
hey sega chief

is the mirge weapon fixed now on your dark cave side quest
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 15:07:02
i just need to know if the mirge weapon battle is fixed yet
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 15:35:58
am i doing something wrong on his mod

because it keeps on breaking on me all the time now
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Covarr on 2015-03-17 18:20:47
Zara9, Sega Chief hasn't even logged on since you posted your question. He hasn't seen it yet, no need to keep asking.

If you have anything to add to a post, please use the edit button instead of posting again.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-17 18:44:17
I already posted a new scene.bin patch that should fix the problem.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 19:46:12
hey sega cheif

now the third form of mirge weapon is not showing up and it softlocked on me again
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-17 19:51:30
Aw man, really? I wonder what's happened to that fight. I'll need to take a more thorough look at it.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 19:52:59
hey sega

how many forms does that boss have

and is there anyway you could put that boss to have 1 form for now temp please
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-17 19:59:55
They're actually two separate bosses, not forms.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 20:01:47
hey

is there anyway you could just put that 1 mirge weapon on here, without the 2 separate bosses temp please

because it would help me out alot

thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 20:46:37
how can i beat this mirge weapon when it keeps glitching out
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-17 21:05:54
Just be patient. I'm fixing it.

Edit: Nearly there; just giving it a test run. There'll be two patches this time, one for the scene and one for the flevel. They'll be up in 10-15mins.

Edit2: Upload for the flevel patch is uncommonly slow for some reason just now, it'll take a little longer.

Edit3: New patches are up, hopefully they put these issues to rest. Make sure to use both the scene + flevel hotfixes.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2015-03-17 23:15:45
hey sega chief

its all fixed and working now

thanks for your help

and sorry for my outburts today on here
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-17 23:16:53
Don't worry about it.

Edit: For the guy who asked before (and anyone else who wants to use it), this is a patch for the world map to use Kalderasha's chibi models on it instead of default ones: https://mega.co.nz/#!W90i1KxY!O1mwV95WXfviT_1kfydv-PirfVrZlvNgbmWFwb6pQI0
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Lionsmane on 2015-03-18 04:39:58
idk what it is, but I always find it impossible to install the game properly without bootleg or 7h.

I've been trying the last few days and it looks like im going to have to throw in the towel until alyza can configure the 1.3 iro.

Looking forward to it, what i played of 1.2 was awesome!
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Proxy on 2015-03-18 07:44:19
I was gonna hold off on a reply until I had a bunch of stuff, but one thing has been irritating me greatly.  The encounter rate.  Way too many enemies.  I just visited Rocket Town and have not seen Enemy Away yet.  This is probably a materia that could be dropped early on in the game to ease enemy encounter woes without any drawbacks.

A couple other things:
1. Palmer's step mine never did anything, it just said "but there was no step counter" or something to that effect.
2. I fought Palmer twice, and stealing from him in the second fight yielded a different item.  I don't know if this is a bug, I just don't recall enemies having different potential items you could steal.
Hopefully if it's not a bug, then the items you can steal aren't good, because it would suck if you lucked into stealing a bad item instead of a good one.
3. I'm not sure how sense works, but I think it gives misleading results.  Many times I base my attack on what sense returns, and it yields poor results.  I think I have seen enemies take no damage (or worse, heal) from elements they are supposed to be weak to, and Titan seems to miss against guys who are weak to earth (Titan just misses a lot in general).
4. The Materia Keeper, or whatever his new name is, cast a spell which caused several effects on himself, one of which being death sentence.  After his time was up it was revealed that he is immune to death.  So what was the point?  I had kinda thought it was a "You win this fight by not dying for a period of time" situation, but nope.
5. Vincent did a crazy jig upon seeing Sephiroth/Jenova at the mansion (He was supposed to walk calmly like my other companion).  This one was amusing.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Bowser9 on 2015-03-18 09:25:19
@Proxy
It is explained in the readme that you can steal 1 of 2 common items or a rare item from almost every enemy (at the cost of not getting an item drop in the results screen). The higher your level relative to the enemy you're trying to steal from, the higher your chances of obtaining a common item, and the lower your chances of obtaining the rare one. You can combine Steal with Morph to ensure a constant stream of good items at the expense of your time and effort. Do note that you can morph bosses for interesting and/or powerful items as well.

I've been regulating my level by running away from fights I don't care about and have seen moderate success in obtaining rare steals. This is no replacement for power leveling, though, so most people concerned only with beating the game can ignore steal for the most part. Sense hasn't actually failed me, and there is a list of enemy types and how their resistances interact with each other in the readme.

@Sega Chief
You changed Suicide lv4 to Suicide lv5, so I'm a bit confused as to how to obtain Chocobuckle from the lv16 Chocobo. Will keep cracking at it a little longer, but I'm running dry.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: cicadian on 2015-03-18 12:31:46
@Bowser9 hey i ran into that when i was streaming, grab a south wutai island chocobo, they're 30, SC knows chocobuckle is currently hard to get early on despite it being a low level wind attack now, it was an oversight and might get changed later.
Title: Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2015-03-18 15:57:19
I was gonna hold off on a reply until I had a bunch of stuff, but one thing has been irritating me greatly.  The encounter rate.  Way too many enemies.  I just visited Rocket Town and have not seen Enemy Away yet.  This is probably a materia that could be dropped early on in the game to ease enemy encounter woes without any drawbacks.

A couple other things:
1. Palmer's step mine never did anything, it just said "but there was no step counter" or something to that effect.
2. I fought Palmer twice, and stealing from him in the second fight yielded a different item.  I don't know if this is a bug, I just don't recall enemies having different potential items you could steal.
Hopefully if it's not a bug, then the items you can steal aren't good, because it would suck if you lucked into stealing a bad item instead of a good one.
3. I'm not sure how sense works, but I think it gives misleading results.  Many times I base my attack on what sense returns, and it yields poor results.  I think I have seen enemies take no damage (or worse, heal) from elements they are supposed to be weak to, and Titan seems to miss against guys who are weak to earth (Titan just misses a lot in general).
4. The Materia Keeper, or whatever his new name is, cast a spell which caused several effects on himself, one of which being death sentence.  After his time was up it was revealed that he is immune to death.  So what was the point?  I had kinda thought it was a "You win this fight by not dying for a period of time" situation, but nope.
5. Vincent did a crazy jig upon seeing Sephiroth/Jenova at the mansion (He was supposed to walk calmly like my other companion).  This one was amusing.

Okay-doke:

The encounter-rate wasn't changed for the mod, it's standard for FF7. I could place a new Enemy Away in, say, Mythril Mines where it can be retrieved by players who have already passed through that area.

1. All of Palmer's attacks are derivatives of FF6 Lore abilities (that game's blue magic). Palmer himself is generally considered to be something of a joke boss, so I had a bit of fun with it. The Step Mine attack is a wee joke; in speedruns, encounter manipulation is often attributed to the 'step counter' but the game doesn't actually track steps, it uses a 'danger value' to trigger encounters.

2. The majority of enemies have a 'Drop, Common Steal, Common Steal, Rare Steal' set up for their four possible items, with certain bosses having a roulette of four steals. The only time steals won't be set is if a boss has a missable item that I want the player to get (like the unique Fairy Tale weapon for instance).

3. I'll check out Sense to make sure it's giving the correct information for elemental weaknesses.

4. Powersoul Keeper, who drops the Powersoul weapon, uses Powersoul mechanics on two of his attacks (the beam and Soul Combo). The Powersoul formula on these attacks multiplies damage by 4x when he's under the Death Sentence status ailment, which is why he inflicts himself with this status midway through the fight.

5. The PC game has a fair few instances where the wrong animations are used for some characters. There's the infamous one on the Altar when Vincent goes a bit crazy because he's been given Cloud's animations. Cid also uses some of Cloud's anims which makes his feet flap up at a 90' angle. While I fixed most of the ones I saw during editing, there's still a few lurking about; I'll take a look and change it to something a bit more...appropriate.

@Bowser9 hey i ran into that when i was streaming, grab a south wutai island chocobo, they're 30, SC knows chocobuckle is currently hard to get early on despite it being a low level wind attack now, it was an oversight and might get changed later.

Yeah, I was intending for Chocobuckle to be available when you first get to the ranch but I clean forgot about the cha