Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)  (Read 864068 times)

iDerek759

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5300 on: 2017-04-29 19:25:59 »
I believe the weapons needed to craft ultimates are located in the North Crator.
They need to be morphed by various enemies down there.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5301 on: 2017-04-29 22:57:16 »
I've had a few soft locks during battles in my playthrough.
Soft lock during a sandworm fight in Corel Prison and during the Platinum Extra Battle in Gold Saucer, Haven't found a work arounf yet, though it happens as soon as the battle starts I can input commands but they do not happen and the boss never takes a turn, also cannot flee.

I've noticed weapons are required to craft the ultimate weapons, Are these weapons missable at all? just reached disc three and can't find them.

Are the two hotfix patches installed? Or are you playing the 7H version?

Livesey

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5302 on: 2017-04-29 23:26:40 »
Playing on the Steam version, not using 7H.
Hot fixes aren't installed, had assumed the above patch came with them, I'll install them and update you.

Edit: Hot fixes have fixed the Platinum match fight. Unsure about the land worm.

Great mod btw. Omega  Weapon and the KOTR guardian Are crazy.
« Last Edit: 2017-04-30 01:10:00 by Livesey »

ManuBBXX

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5303 on: 2017-04-30 08:48:59 »
Sega, the 1.5 will be an update from existing 1.4, or a total overhaul, for you ?
And, not NT mod directly related, but can we dream of an integration of beacause retranslation with next NT ?

Cause I use to play with beacause, and it's hard to return back to the normal 'poor' translation IMO  :o :-D

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5304 on: 2017-04-30 13:27:26 »
Sega, the 1.5 will be an update from existing 1.4, or a total overhaul, for you ?
And, not NT mod directly related, but can we dream of an integration of beacause retranslation with next NT ?

Cause I use to play with beacause, and it's hard to return back to the normal 'poor' translation IMO  :o :-D

1.5 is the finalising of all the mod's features; enemy/character balance, text/dialogue, extra content, etc. I'll be looking to put together a Beacaused version of NT once Dan has finalised his mod; it's been requested quite a few times. NT does have a re-write but it's not a translation, just a clean-up I've written.

cha0tic

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5305 on: 2017-05-01 17:32:08 »
Sega, my last play through I didn't find hp plus I modded it in.
Are there any in the game and more then one?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5306 on: 2017-05-01 22:13:52 »
There's one now; it's in the North Crater, left-down path and replaced the Mega-All usually found down there (Mega-All is now in the Purple Materia Cave and HP<>MP is dropped by Materia Keeper).

cha0tic

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5307 on: 2017-05-01 22:18:48 »
Alright cool, whats the average health around disc 3? If I recall I was around 5000 hp around the end of disc 3 without the modded in Hp plus. All I remember is HP was pretty low,  I assume its made to be that way.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5308 on: 2017-05-02 02:08:45 »
MaxHP for each character is reached at Lv.81 (including variance range):

Cloud: 6133-6521
Barret: 7058-7535
Tifa: 5275-5586
Aeris: 4873-5177
Red XIII: 5568-5886
Yuffie: 4992-5269
Cait Sith: 6301-6708
Vincent: 5203-5485
Cid: 6638-7087

cha0tic

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5309 on: 2017-05-02 04:28:21 »
May I ask why those numbers? What exactly made you cap them at that. Or is there already somewhere where you explained it?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5310 on: 2017-05-02 13:02:54 »
My rationale for it is that higher numbers are a nightmare to balance when %-based damage-reductions are present; Back Row, Sadness, Barriers, and Elemental Defence are all capable of shrinking damage down by 30-50% each and their effects stack.

To trouble a character with 9999HP, you need attacks that deal damage somewhere in the region of several thousand HP. Apply %-based reductions to these attacks that are dealing higher numbers, and you get a scaling return on these reductions that become more and more effective as you progress through the game. Lower cap numbers means the scaling return on mitigation isn't as pronounced.

Using the cap for stats is arbitrary anyway, and it homogenizes characters/builds; they should only be reachable, if at all, through the very extremes. You can get 255 in some stats with some characters in NT but only by building the characters a certain way and then augmenting them with specific pieces of equipment.

That works the other way as well. Enemy balancing can be done much more moderately when extreme values aren't in play. If every character is capable of 9999HP and 255 in their stats, then you end up in a lose-lose situation where you either spec the end-game/super bosses to handle those stats, making them a requirement, or you spec them normally in which case they're a pushover.

strife98

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5311 on: 2017-05-03 00:28:47 »

My rationale for it is that higher numbers are a nightmare to balance when %-based damage-reductions are present; Back Row, Sadness, Barriers, and Elemental Defence are all capable of shrinking damage down by 30-50% each and their effects stack.

To trouble a character with 9999HP, you need attacks that deal damage somewhere in the region of several thousand HP. Apply %-based reductions to these attacks that are dealing higher numbers, and you get a scaling return on these reductions that become more and more effective as you progress through the game. Lower cap numbers means the scaling return on mitigation isn't as pronounced.

Using the cap for stats is arbitrary anyway, and it homogenizes characters/builds; they should only be reachable, if at all, through the very extremes. You can get 255 in some stats with some characters in NT but only by building the characters a certain way and then augmenting them with specific pieces of equipment.

That works the other way as well. Enemy balancing can be done much more moderately when extreme values aren't in play. If every character is capable of 9999HP and 255 in their stats, then you end up in a lose-lose situation where you either spec the end-game/super bosses to handle those stats, making them a requirement, or you spec them normally in which case they're a pushover.

Makes me really curious how your FF8 mod is going to work that then. I'm not sure if it'd be easier or harder since everything scales with Squall and magic having such a huge change on stats, but it's got me super interested in it.

Ice30

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5312 on: 2017-05-03 12:22:56 »
Hey Sega, loving the mod so far. I've got a bug to report...

When doing the send off ceremony for Rufus at Junon, it is no longer possible to receive the enemy away materia as per your documentation. I kept doing it over and over and getting the listed second prize (Rune armlet) until I finally got a program that slows down the game so that I could make sure I was doing everything 100% perfect and I still only received the second prize.

Not that I particularly wanted the mastered enemy away materia anyway as you start out with it, I was just wondering why I had not received it the first time because I thought I nailed the ceremony so thats why I kept trying.

Anyway loving everything else cheers

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5313 on: 2017-05-03 14:20:06 »
Makes me really curious how your FF8 mod is going to work that then. I'm not sure if it'd be easier or harder since everything scales with Squall and magic having such a huge change on stats, but it's got me super interested in it.

It's going to be like a house of cards; if one thing is wrong then it'll all be wrong. The new FF8 tools allow for a greater degree of editing than before, but some things like Cards will need to be done via Hex. I'll have an alpha build up of it fairly soon after 1.5 is released so I can get some early feedback. The main ideas of it are:

Tackling Low Level
-) GF abilities are locked behind GF level rather than abilities learned, meaning that the characters will have to level to see them.
-) Bosses give EXP, potentially with a system to revive characters at end of fight so that it can't be dodged with KO.
-) Randoms don't give upgraded magic when they hit Level thresholds, the stronger magic is gated further into the game with later monsters/items
-) Stat growth weighted more on level arcs instead of Magic junctions

GF vs Magic
-) Like FF7 NT Summons, they'll ignore Spirit/Magic Defence whereas Magic is more conventional. However, GFs will LOSE affinity when used meaning they'll become less and less efficient if they're spammed too much. Magic, on the other hand, will greatly improve GF affinity. The idea would be you'd 'charge' the GFs using conventional attacks and then save them up for a tough fight. GFs, with the exception of some Support GFs like Carbuncle, also have much less HP on the whole so timing is needed when using them to avoid getting them KO'd.

Character Builds
-) FF8 has 'sources' like FF7, meaning I could script something similar to Rank Up assuming I'm able to do so using the field editor (most of the field op-codes aren't deciphered yet though; it's not as supported as the FF7 one). I'll likely hold off on this feature for the alpha build but I'd like to try and implement it at some point.

Items/Card
-) You can break the game's balance very quickly with items and refine abilities. I don't want to remove or gate card-mod/refine abilities as they could be used to eliminate stock grinding, etc. so getting the relationship between card/item availability & refine results correct will be a big step forward.

Enemy Balance
-) Like you mentioned, level scaling is a big challenge because it's much tougher to adjust than static stats. There'll be a lot of trial and error with this; I'll probably go with several 'sets' of stats that I'll apply to all enemies so I can properly judge how they develop late-game and where the attack strength of their abilities needs to sit at. I'm not sure yet if I'll remove the max level cap from bosses for scaling or not as doing so would prevent a player from grabbing a few extra levels to push through a tough boss and potentially get them stuck.

Hey Sega, loving the mod so far. I've got a bug to report...

When doing the send off ceremony for Rufus at Junon, it is no longer possible to receive the enemy away materia as per your documentation. I kept doing it over and over and getting the listed second prize (Rune armlet) until I finally got a program that slows down the game so that I could make sure I was doing everything 100% perfect and I still only received the second prize.

Not that I particularly wanted the mastered enemy away materia anyway as you start out with it, I was just wondering why I had not received it the first time because I thought I nailed the ceremony so thats why I kept trying.

Anyway loving everything else cheers

The rewards were changed because Enemy Away isn't the greatest thing to get, particularly with the new toggle switch for random encounters. I'll be updating the documentation to accompany 1.5's release. Sorry for the hassle.

Ice30

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5314 on: 2017-05-03 15:37:06 »
The rewards were changed because Enemy Away isn't the greatest thing to get, particularly with the new toggle switch for random encounters. I'll be updating the documentation to accompany 1.5's release. Sorry for the hassle.

That's fine mate, sometimes I am too conscientious :) over 20 hours in and only at Junon lol gotta be my slowest play through yet.

Looking forward to your FF8 stuff its sounding good. I just finished stock FF8 (3rd or 4th run ever) not too long ago. On the subject, not too sure if it's possible but if drawing strong spells from bosses would be more dangerous (ie counter attacks) it would be amazing. I'm sure you're aware the biggest complaint about ff8 is the draw system so i'm looking forward to seeing if there's something you can do about it if it's possible. Also I would love to skip the Laguna sequences and not lose out, they break the pacing so much (except maybe the red dragon fight which is really fun).

XandridFire

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5315 on: 2017-05-03 18:09:23 »
Hello, I have a question and plz forgive me if you get this alot, is this compatable with psx versions? If not will it ever be? Also are there any other mods that are like this that is? Again please forgive me if you get this alot

Girl next door

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5316 on: 2017-05-03 19:10:53 »
Hey Sega !

mexico has done a great mod, well rebalanced with new bosses, new sidequests: http://ff7.fr/forum/index.php?page=post&ids=365501 here's the best example, the final battle against Ultimecia: https://youtu.be/h23rL7xlEE4 . If you need some help, I'm sure mexico would be really happy to help you.  ;)

MoCheese

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5317 on: 2017-05-03 22:43:17 »
There's been some confusion here; I balance the mod around Wait ATB, not Active ATB. Enemies aren't universally being buffed, they're just being adjusted for 1.5 parties.

Arrange Mode increases enemy Level, activates AI flags, and enables new attacks for them to use. Away from battles, it changes item placement and you'll see events unique to that mode.

The .EXE changes will be used for both modes to keep consistency.

The mod is balanced around 'Wait'? Really? Like, REALLY really? Wow.. I would've lost a ton of money on that bet. Jeez, I wonder how much my thoughts would change if I ever actually played it on 'Wait'.

As for Arranged, sounds great, can't wait to play it. In regards to the .EXE changes though, I'm confused. When you say the changes are used for both modes, you are referring to Normal and Arranged, correct? If so, then that means the mod will come with both a normal launcher and the updated .EXE? Did I get that right?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5318 on: 2017-05-03 22:56:47 »
That's fine mate, sometimes I am too conscientious :) over 20 hours in and only at Junon lol gotta be my slowest play through yet.

Looking forward to your FF8 stuff its sounding good. I just finished stock FF8 (3rd or 4th run ever) not too long ago. On the subject, not too sure if it's possible but if drawing strong spells from bosses would be more dangerous (ie counter attacks) it would be amazing. I'm sure you're aware the biggest complaint about ff8 is the draw system so i'm looking forward to seeing if there's something you can do about it if it's possible. Also I would love to skip the Laguna sequences and not lose out, they break the pacing so much (except maybe the red dragon fight which is really fun).

I can maybe do skips for those sequences like how NT has skips for the flashback scenes. Counters for bosses should be do-able, so long as they can be made to recognise Draw as a command. The AI editing is a bit touch and go at the moment.

Hello, I have a question and plz forgive me if you get this alot, is this compatable with psx versions? If not will it ever be? Also are there any other mods that are like this that is? Again please forgive me if you get this alot

I'm afraid not, it's PC only. It'd be impossible to port the mod as-is to PSX as well due to differences in file format, size restrictions, etc. That being said, I could make a 'lite' version for the PSX game; it'd probably use stock enemy models for the new encounters though and I'd prob need to do some trimming on top of that.

Hey Sega !

mexico has done a great mod, well rebalanced with new bosses, new sidequests: http://ff7.fr/forum/index.php?page=post&ids=365501 here's the best example, the final battle against Ultimecia: https://youtu.be/h23rL7xlEE4 . If you need some help, I'm sure mexico would be really happy to help you.  ;)

I didn't know he'd made an FF8 mod as well! I'll definitely check this out.

The mod is balanced around 'Wait'? Really? Like, REALLY really? Wow.. I would've lost a ton of money on that bet. Jeez, I wonder how much my thoughts would change if I ever actually played it on 'Wait'.

As for Arranged, sounds great, can't wait to play it. In regards to the .EXE changes though, I'm confused. When you say the changes are used for both modes, you are referring to Normal and Arranged, correct? If so, then that means the mod will come with both a normal launcher and the updated .EXE? Did I get that right?

The launcher remains untouched, just the .exe gets altered. I'll be looking into alternate patching methods though so that this doesn't leave people with a NT .exe when they try to play other mods/default.

Gilawaffle

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5319 on: 2017-05-03 23:59:21 »
First of all, I am about 13 hours into version 1.4 of this mod. This mod has breathed new life into my favorite childhood game, and despite some of the challenges I am facing, I am having a BLAST. That being said...

I just picked up Vincent and I was excited that his innate trait was pass MP regeneration. So I'm out in Nibel farming some experience to catch him up, but I am noticing that every once in a while, his HP (not MP) is regenerating significantly.

I am just wondering if this is intentionally a change in his innate trait, or if I have discovered a bug?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5320 on: 2017-05-04 00:47:51 »
First of all, I am about 13 hours into version 1.4 of this mod. This mod has breathed new life into my favorite childhood game, and despite some of the challenges I am facing, I am having a BLAST. That being said...

I just picked up Vincent and I was excited that his innate trait was pass MP regeneration. So I'm out in Nibel farming some experience to catch him up, but I am noticing that every once in a while, his HP (not MP) is regenerating significantly.

I am just wondering if this is intentionally a change in his innate trait, or if I have discovered a bug?

His trait was swapped with Cait Sith; he gains HP intermittently equal to his current MP (makes his MP useful when he's in Limit form and ties into the 'slow, tough caster' template). Cait Sith on the other hand has the passive MP regen.

Gilawaffle

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5321 on: 2017-05-04 00:50:47 »
His trait was swapped with Cait Sith; he gains HP intermittently equal to his current MP (makes his MP useful when he's in Limit form and ties into the 'slow, tough caster' template). Cait Sith on the other hand has the passive MP regen.

Thanks for the heads up. I think this actually kind of makes more "lore" sense for Vincent as well. Something about being a basically vampire and regenerating HP seems...right.

Dracozombie

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5322 on: 2017-05-04 01:15:47 »
Not gonna lie, I had no idea this mod was balanced around Wait either. I've always kept the settings on Active and normal speed. There was ONE boss that I lowered the battle speed on because he was that horrible, but that's it.

For anyone who has time, what's the real significance between Active vs Wait (and I guess Recommended too, which apparently is not recommended)? I already know what it does, but strategy-wise, what's so important that it makes Wait the 'intended' setting?

unclebiggs23

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5323 on: 2017-05-04 01:21:45 »
It's going to be like a house of cards; if one thing is wrong then it'll all be wrong. The new FF8 tools allow for a greater degree of editing than before, but some things like Cards will need to be done via Hex. I'll have an alpha build up of it fairly soon after 1.5 is released so I can get some early feedback. The main ideas of it are:

Tackling Low Level
-) GF abilities are locked behind GF level rather than abilities learned, meaning that the characters will have to level to see them.
-) Bosses give EXP, potentially with a system to revive characters at end of fight so that it can't be dodged with KO.
-) Randoms don't give upgraded magic when they hit Level thresholds, the stronger magic is gated further into the game with later monsters/items
-) Stat growth weighted more on level arcs instead of Magic junctions

GF vs Magic
-) Like FF7 NT Summons, they'll ignore Spirit/Magic Defence whereas Magic is more conventional. However, GFs will LOSE affinity when used meaning they'll become less and less efficient if they're spammed too much. Magic, on the other hand, will greatly improve GF affinity. The idea would be you'd 'charge' the GFs using conventional attacks and then save them up for a tough fight. GFs, with the exception of some Support GFs like Carbuncle, also have much less HP on the whole so timing is needed when using them to avoid getting them KO'd.

Character Builds
-) FF8 has 'sources' like FF7, meaning I could script something similar to Rank Up assuming I'm able to do so using the field editor (most of the field op-codes aren't deciphered yet though; it's not as supported as the FF7 one). I'll likely hold off on this feature for the alpha build but I'd like to try and implement it at some point.

Items/Card
-) You can break the game's balance very quickly with items and refine abilities. I don't want to remove or gate card-mod/refine abilities as they could be used to eliminate stock grinding, etc. so getting the relationship between card/item availability & refine results correct will be a big step forward.

Enemy Balance
-) Like you mentioned, level scaling is a big challenge because it's much tougher to adjust than static stats. There'll be a lot of trial and error with this; I'll probably go with several 'sets' of stats that I'll apply to all enemies so I can properly judge how they develop late-game and where the attack strength of their abilities needs to sit at. I'm not sure yet if I'll remove the max level cap from bosses for scaling or not as doing so would prevent a player from grabbing a few extra levels to push through a tough boss and potentially get them stuck.


I actually have the Requiem Mod for FF8 installed, and I found it rather enjoyable for the most part. However, one of the major problems that it runs into later in the game is that because physical damage was significantly nerfed and magical attacks were greatly buffed, it relies far too much on magic. It eventually becomes a tedious process of casting Meltdown on the enemy (oftentimes several times as the hit rate is reduced), casting Double/Triple on your party and spamming Flare, with healing sessions in between. You can use limits for damage if you really want to, but they've pretty much have all been nerfed in a significant way, and magic is the better means of dealing damage. The spell Aura doesn't always land, and even has a chance of causing Death if it does. There really is no other viable alternative, so it gets extremely uninteresting once you realize that's pretty much the only thing you can do. I know this is probably a "Duh" thing for you, given how balanced you made this mod, but having one strategy completely outclass everything else just doesn't make for a fun mod. Making it so that there is something you need to do differently with almost every boss battle/random encounter so that one strategy isn't completely favored over another is what makes the experience more enjoyable.
« Last Edit: 2017-05-04 01:30:48 by unclebiggs23 »

Girl next door

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5324 on: 2017-05-04 03:07:28 »
I didn't know he'd made an FF8 mod as well! I'll definitely check this out.

I'm not sure it can be played if you don't speak french, there are lots of changings even in texts. But I thought about the mod you prepare, I know for sure that mexico has done a lot of hexedits so he can be of any help.  ;)