Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)  (Read 921467 times)

Bowser9

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5325 on: 2017-05-04 10:17:26 »
Not gonna lie, I had no idea this mod was balanced around Wait either. I've always kept the settings on Active and normal speed. There was ONE boss that I lowered the battle speed on because he was that horrible, but that's it.

For anyone who has time, what's the real significance between Active vs Wait (and I guess Recommended too, which apparently is not recommended)? I already know what it does, but strategy-wise, what's so important that it makes Wait the 'intended' setting?

It's been explained before, but for Active in general:
  • Active on faster speeds mitigates differences in ATB speed, such as via high Dex or Haste, allowing you to enter your action during enemy animations.
  • Time sensitive buffs like Barrier and Shield deteriorate constantly, thus benefiting fewer attacks. Enforces parity since this also goes for enemy Barriers and Shields. You can still Slow your own tank to extend the duration of buffs at the expense of actions.
  • Acts as a difficulty spike if you are slower to make commands; enemies take more actions than you as you think about your next action. Faster speeds just make the spike more frequent as you can be attacked more while you think.

Wait, on the other hand:

  • Wait can allow you to optimize the duration of time sensitive buffs by stopping them from deteriorating during animations, thus allowing them to benefit more actions.
  • Can also optimize turn advantage if you happen to have a faster ATB gauge than your opponent (again, like via Haste). Setting ATB speed to slow makes this easier to accomplish, but can also make dealing with enemy defensive actions a chore.
  • For animations that do not stop the ATB throughout, such as simple attack animations, you can abuse a free party member by entering a menu to prevent the ATB from moving during your actions. You can deny enemy ATB by trying to keep the ATB paused while your actions are queued. This also lets you take as long as you want to make decisions, making it the easiest mode to work with if you like having time to think.

For the most part, optimizing ATB speed, Wait, and using Active vs enemies with temporary buffs isn't necessary to beat the game. It's just an extra strategy that you can employ to swing things in your favor or make a disadvantage less severe. Recommended is not recommended, as you said, but it will do some of the work to extend the benefit of temporary buffs so that they benefit more actions. You can still use it and win.
« Last Edit: 2017-05-04 10:43:11 by Bowser9 »

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5326 on: 2017-05-04 16:45:18 »
I actually have the Requiem Mod for FF8 installed, and I found it rather enjoyable for the most part. However, one of the major problems that it runs into later in the game is that because physical damage was significantly nerfed and magical attacks were greatly buffed, it relies far too much on magic. It eventually becomes a tedious process of casting Meltdown on the enemy (oftentimes several times as the hit rate is reduced), casting Double/Triple on your party and spamming Flare, with healing sessions in between. You can use limits for damage if you really want to, but they've pretty much have all been nerfed in a significant way, and magic is the better means of dealing damage. The spell Aura doesn't always land, and even has a chance of causing Death if it does. There really is no other viable alternative, so it gets extremely uninteresting once you realize that's pretty much the only thing you can do. I know this is probably a "Duh" thing for you, given how balanced you made this mod, but having one strategy completely outclass everything else just doesn't make for a fun mod. Making it so that there is something you need to do differently with almost every boss battle/random encounter so that one strategy isn't completely favored over another is what makes the experience more enjoyable.

I can see why he would do that though; Limits are brutally strong in this game. I'll try and avoid this if I can, but Double/Triple will be tricky to balance around.

I'm not sure it can be played if you don't speak french, there are lots of changings even in texts. But I thought about the mod you prepare, I know for sure that mexico has done a lot of hexedits so he can be of any help.  ;)

Hex edits are going to be a make or break for an FF8 mod at the moment so hopefully he'll be willing to lend some advice/notes.

It's been explained before, but for Active in general:
  • Active on faster speeds mitigates differences in ATB speed, such as via high Dex or Haste, allowing you to enter your action during enemy animations.
  • Time sensitive buffs like Barrier and Shield deteriorate constantly, thus benefiting fewer attacks. Enforces parity since this also goes for enemy Barriers and Shields. You can still Slow your own tank to extend the duration of buffs at the expense of actions.
  • Acts as a difficulty spike if you are slower to make commands; enemies take more actions than you as you think about your next action. Faster speeds just make the spike more frequent as you can be attacked more while you think.

Wait, on the other hand:

  • Wait can allow you to optimize the duration of time sensitive buffs by stopping them from deteriorating during animations, thus allowing them to benefit more actions.
  • Can also optimize turn advantage if you happen to have a faster ATB gauge than your opponent (again, like via Haste). Setting ATB speed to slow makes this easier to accomplish, but can also make dealing with enemy defensive actions a chore.
  • For animations that do not stop the ATB throughout, such as simple attack animations, you can abuse a free party member by entering a menu to prevent the ATB from moving during your actions. You can deny enemy ATB by trying to keep the ATB paused while your actions are queued. This also lets you take as long as you want to make decisions, making it the easiest mode to work with if you like having time to think.

For the most part, optimizing ATB speed, Wait, and using Active vs enemies with temporary buffs isn't necessary to beat the game. It's just an extra strategy that you can employ to swing things in your favor or make a disadvantage less severe. Recommended is not recommended, as you said, but it will do some of the work to extend the benefit of temporary buffs so that they benefit more actions. You can still use it and win.

I'll add an explanation of Recommended to this. This setting was their way of trying to combine the best of Wait with Active; the idea is that the gauges would freeze during lengthy animations but not in menus. That way you can't use Wait to optimise your turns while effects aren't run down super-fast during lengthy animations. In practice, the setting is busted and will only affect certain actions (if at all) and the only real benefit I've found to it is that it works quite well in 1v1 encounters. Wait also has some issues; certain animations won't freeze the gauges, at least not right away.

My theory is that animations have 'hooks' at the start of them which tell the engine to stop processing ATB. However, if these hooks are missed then the ATB will continue until the next hook is encountered. Most animations are broken into 'segments' of about 3 on average; a build-up to the cast, the moment the spell animation is triggered, and then a wind-down back into their idle. I'll bet there's a hook in each of these to freeze ATB under Recommended/Wait but if you're coming in and out of menus and whatnot then these hooks get missed/overwritten so you end up with the ATB going and/or stopping when it shouldn't.

XandridFire

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5327 on: 2017-05-05 01:33:37 »
I'm afraid not, it's PC only. It'd be impossible to port the mod as-is to PSX as well due to differences in file format, size restrictions, etc. That being said, I could make a 'lite' version for the PSX game; it'd probably use stock enemy models for the new encounters though and I'd prob need to do some trimming on top of that.

That would be awesome, I just a want good mod on psx, due to me wanting to play it on my ps vita. If you can do that it'll be very awesome, take your time, please
« Last Edit: 2017-05-08 02:27:58 by XandridFire »

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5328 on: 2017-05-06 17:08:13 »
After speaking with Luksy, it's become obvious that returns must be placed at the end of ANY script that does not loop. It's imperative that a return is placed at the end of even the talk script. Otherwise, the game will just overflow to the next byte / instruction in the file and execute that.  Often this will be a return by fluke and so you will not notice a problem (like the mistake in the original game in mrkt2), but sometimes this will cause issues (like astage_a that Spy__dragon reported to me in regards to talk script).

unclebiggs23

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5329 on: 2017-05-09 00:37:55 »
I was fighting Protoroth a few days ago, and I saw something odd happen. He used one of his magic attacks that turned Aeris into a Frog, and when I went to cast a spell, I noticed that Pearl was the only spell that she could cast. I know that Frog is supposed to disable magic and limits, so it seems a little weird. Is this supposed to happen??

On another note, in regards to the mod you're starting on for FF8, did you know there's an unused enemy called "Dummy"? Do you think that enemy can somehow be restored for the mod as an optional superboss or something?? Just an idea I had.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5330 on: 2017-05-09 02:40:40 »
I was fighting Protoroth a few days ago, and I saw something odd happen. He used one of his magic attacks that turned Aeris into a Frog, and when I went to cast a spell, I noticed that Pearl was the only spell that she could cast. I know that Frog is supposed to disable magic and limits, so it seems a little weird. Is this supposed to happen??

On another note, in regards to the mod you're starting on for FF8, did you know there's an unused enemy called "Dummy"? Do you think that enemy can somehow be restored for the mod as an optional superboss or something?? Just an idea I had.

It just clicked there. Someone reported this before but I had no idea what it was. When you're a Frog, I think you can still cast the spell Frog to change yourself back...but Pearl replaced this spell and that's why it's still usable. Must be an index thing.

I dunno if Dummy is functional or not. I'll be focusing on just getting the framework of the mod together, so probably no new enemies for the alpha build. There's no model editor (that I know of) and the enemies use textures which makes things awkward. I can't just bolt and shape parts together like I do in FF7 with Kimera.

strife98

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5331 on: 2017-05-12 05:44:21 »
Came back and oh god I am dying. So glad beating Ultima Weapon before midgar raid is still a thing. Also holy cow the bosses for the Materia Caves good lord. Anyways, I have a few bugs to bring up. None too game breaking or anything, most just visual or something simple:

 In Shinra Mansion Ying and Yang still have the SP Gained text that pop up.

After fighting Tseng at the Rocket, if you go back to the save point after fighting the guard inside the rocket, he is standing up.
Spoiler: show


While fighting the Adamantaimai he attacked me after death animation. Pretty sure it's because he was Manipulated when I killed him. I did Manipulated, had him use Heavy Shell on himself, and used Quake 3, and repeated till he died. You can kind of see his Heavy Shell hitting Cait with him being gone.
Spoiler: show
« Last Edit: 2017-05-12 05:46:33 by strife98 »

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5332 on: 2017-05-12 08:25:04 »
I've fixed the Tseng thing, but not the Yin/Yang/Adamantaimai things so I'll get those sorted out.

The balancing on Disc 3 was much more off than I'd realised. I've basically had to start over with AI, attacks, and stats for everything there.

strife98

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5333 on: 2017-05-12 21:29:34 »
Also, quick question, for the Boss at the Quadra Magic Materia, is there another strategy besides:
Spoiler: show
Confuse all the little bombs with Hades/Bad breath/Confuse and then cast Demi 3 on them one by one and hope that random chance is your friend and they use their insta kill/eject on another confused bomb death attack to continue the chain reaction until only the big boss is left instead of using it on you.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5334 on: 2017-05-12 22:12:02 »
Also, quick question, for the Boss at the Quadra Magic Materia, is there another strategy besides:
Spoiler: show
Confuse all the little bombs with Hades/Bad breath/Confuse and then cast Demi 3 on them one by one and hope that random chance is your friend and they use their insta kill/eject on another confused bomb death attack to continue the chain reaction until only the big boss is left instead of using it on you.


The idea of the fight was that you don't kill the bombs, but instead keep them healthy to avoid a detonation (the boss targets them with chain detonation and an ability called 'Set Fuse' which sets them with the Dual-Drain status). I never thought about how Confuse could circumvent it though, that's quite clever.

unclebiggs23

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5335 on: 2017-05-13 02:39:45 »
So I've been trying to fight the Kaktuar boss in the purple materia cave and I'm stuck. I know the mechanics necessary in order to defeat him, as I beat in my last playthrough, but now that I'm doing a no SP run, things are much different this time. Since physical attacks are the way to go, I figured I could give Tifa a chance to shine and load her up with Water Element and the God Hand with 255 accuracy. However, because of his high evasion and more importantly, luck, Tifa can't land a lot of hits on him. I tried giving her the Amulet, which raises her Luck by 75, but even that really isn't doing much. Since all of the characters are now super-fragile because of No SP, and the Amulet's penalty of preventing barriers, Tifa can't really survive very long. I do have some SP Mines and Fletch Rockets that deal a decent amount of damage, though, and I've been using them with my other two characters. Kaktuar is also not susceptible to any noteworthy status ailments, either. My question is: do I have no other choice but to rely on those items, or is there something I'm not thinking of??

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5336 on: 2017-05-13 03:08:48 »
So I've been trying to fight the Kaktuar boss in the purple materia cave and I'm stuck. I know the mechanics necessary in order to defeat him, as I beat in my last playthrough, but now that I'm doing a no SP run, things are much different this time. Since physical attacks are the way to go, I figured I could give Tifa a chance to shine and load her up with Water Element and the God Hand with 255 accuracy. However, because of his high evasion and more importantly, luck, Tifa can't land a lot of hits on him. I tried giving her the Amulet, which raises her Luck by 75, but even that really isn't doing much. Since all of the characters are now super-fragile because of No SP, and the Amulet's penalty of preventing barriers, Tifa can't really survive very long. I do have some SP Mines and Fletch Rockets that deal a decent amount of damage, though, and I've been using them with my other two characters. Kaktuar is also not susceptible to any noteworthy status ailments, either. My question is: do I have no other choice but to rely on those items, or is there something I'm not thinking of??

You have some leeway to hit him with Magic, and items can't miss due to their formulas so Dragon Scales might be effective (Serpents have them in the Gelnika). Throw is quite strong too if combined with high-damage weapons like the Mideel Crystal-tier weapons (Partisan for instance) but I don't know how the accuracy works on it; hopefully it'll be like Item.

aliatusa

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5337 on: 2017-05-15 09:29:10 »
Hey Sega Chief, hope you're doing well today.
Really enjoying your mod so far, keep up the good work!

Now for my feedback:
1) In my current playthrough I found another monster with the same
problem as "Yin/Yang/Adamantaimai", namely the "Bloatfloat" on Mt. Corel.

I'm not sure this happens all the time, but definietely on the screen overlooking the reactor.
(Accessible from the railroad bridge we also see in Barrets flashback.)
Should it even matter where I fight the enemy?

2) In the Corel desert encounter with "Sandworm" my game freezes right before
the worms second attack/action.
I tried this a few times with different party-setup but to no avail.

3) So far I am not poor yet? What's up with that? ;D

Hopefully this gives you not too much trouble, both are minor issues anyway.

Cheers.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5338 on: 2017-05-16 00:36:12 »
I'll check Yin-Yang and get the message removed. Will make sure to impoverish you for the next run.

strife98

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5339 on: 2017-05-17 09:27:45 »
OK wtf. I need quick run down on how to deal with the Curator. I've watched videos, and he is doing no where near the damage he's doing to me, and I made sure everyone was in the back row with sadness to make sure I take the least amount of damage possible. Though those video's were 5 months to a year old so Curator has probably changed since then. He starts with Warning Shot which halves my health, then almost finishes me off with Lapis Lazer, usually killing off one of my guys. Oh, but he's not done yet. He comes in and swings at me with his arms, or taking one of my characters and killing the other, leaving me with a dead team, and a super frustrated look on my face. I even sneak attacked a Wall in there and it didn't do JACK. I can't even set up preparations because he kills me before my characters can react, and I'm level 87 - 89! I was feeling pretty good especially when I found out the beauty of Aerith's Healing Rods and Slash-All. I mean I'm enjoying the difficulty. I regretfully had to force myself into Wait mode once I got into the Midgar Raid cause Dual Drain is everywhere and super ridiculous. But this guy is rediculous. I managed to get my team to stay alive ONE time, and he uses this Missle something move (i can't remember the name unfortunately) and it does more damage than my team has health. I need strats, something, anything cause good lord. I'm pulling my hair out on this one. There's gotta be something I'm missing.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5340 on: 2017-05-17 15:36:48 »
He's a super-boss designed to be as cheese as possible; I'd recommend waiting until you're doing the Dark Cave sidequest before taking him on as you'll revisit Shinra HQ during it. He's been redesigned for 1.5 to be much more beatable when you return during the Midgar Raid but in 1.4 it'd be a much better idea to take him on after getting access to the Disc 3 stuff.

The first thing I'd say is to have 3x Protect Vests to halve the Shoot damage going out; the following attacks have the Shoot element:
-) Lapis Laser
-) Missile Array
-) Warning Shot
-) Tower Laser
-) Amethyst Laser (also Fire)
-) Coral Laser

The only other elements going out is Water from Submersion, Hit from Arm Attack, and Shout from Stern Warning. Shoot is the important one; it can also be blocked with Shield if you have it. In terms of statuses, guard against Death using either Deathforce or Destruct/Odin + Added Effect. The other statuses can be dealt with using Remedy/Esuna or Dispel.

In terms of team, I would recommend fielding Barret & Cait Sith for their naturally high defences and give them armour that props up their Magic Defence. If you can get Defence and Magic Defence past the 200 mark then it should greatly reduce incoming damage. They should both have Esuna+All, Dispel, Revive, and Restorative so they can keep the team ticking over and if one gets grabbed, the other is there to keep supporting. They'll need some kind of attacking option though in case your damage-dealer gets grabbed; Cover + 5x Counter Attack on Barret would be a good shout, and/or Cait Sith using Enemy Skill abilities.

About Grab; only one Arm is capable of using Arm Grab (the Right Arm); the Left Arm has had its AI disabled for this ability so once the Right Arm is killed you won't see Grab again.

Your third guy should probably be a caster. Vincent has higher physical defence than normal which should help, though Aeris could be brought in with something like Planet Protector/Pulse of Life as a panic button (though this will probably not fill again if Sadness is being used). They should be making use of W-Magic & MP Turbo (maybe with a summon like Bahamut-ZERO on Quadra as this circumvents the 1-use limit on Summons).

For logistics, you're going to need a lot of items. Turbo Ethers can be acquired from the North Crater by feeding Magic Pots Ethers (not Elixirs), and the bosses from Midgar Raid should provide a lot of money for stocking on things like Phoenix Downs, Remedy, etc.

In the fight itself, the Protect Vests should make the opening attack and Lapis much more survivable. He then alternates between Missile Array (his physical attack) and a 'special' like Submersion, Stern Warning, or Lapis Laser. When an arm is destroyed, his attacks will change.

Phase 1
-) Lapis Laser
-) Missile Array
-) Stern Warning (Shout: Confusion, Paralysis - single target)
-) Submersion (Water: Sleep, Silence, Darkness - single target)

Phase 2 (1 Arm Destroyed)
-) Amethyst Laser (Fire: dual-drain)
-) Tower Laser (single target)
-) Harsh Warning (Physical, non-elemental)
-) Stern Warning

Phase 3 (both Arms Destroyed)
-) Coral Laser (Instant KO, 60% chance)
-) Missile Array
-) Time Warning (Shout: Slow, Stop)
-) Submersion

Phase 4 (Core at 50% HP or lower)
-) Rainbow Laser (Reduces Defensive stats by 10%)
-) Tower Laser
-) Missile Array
-) Stern Warning

It's best to save all your burst damage for this last phase; Quadded Summons will be particularly good there. Rainbow Laser's effect will be removed if a character dies (like Hero Drink/Dragon Force effects) so it isn't a permanent defence loss. The last thing to mention is that he'll use a powerful attack when he dies; make sure to try and keep people topped up and have MBarrier active at all times in anticipation of it.

strife98

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5341 on: 2017-05-17 16:09:27 »
Geeze I had no idea I would go back once I get to dark cave. Only reason I was so frustrated was cause I thought that would be the only time I'd get to fight him and I didn't want to give up on it. That's what I get for purposefully skipping over anything about it lol. I'll probably finish off Midgar then. Thankfully though because of grinding and Gil plus I don't have to worry about maxed items since I always have enough money to Max them out. Heck I had about 800k before doing the rocket materia mission (at least I did before I bought AVALANCHE Villa lol.) I'll probably give Curator a few more tries with this knowledge, thanks very much!

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5342 on: 2017-05-18 14:41:07 »
First, I want to say great work on this mod. I have been playing non stop all week and love it. I just made it to disk 3, and have gone to the Shinra mansion for the Zack fight but cannot get it to trigger. Is there something I need to do before this? I did skip the mideel flashback so I was wondering if that caused issues with this sidequest.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5343 on: 2017-05-18 14:44:40 »
First, I want to say great work on this mod. I have been playing non stop all week and love it. I just made it to disk 3, and have gone to the Shinra mansion for the Zack fight but cannot get it to trigger. Is there something I need to do before this? I did skip the mideel flashback so I was wondering if that caused issues with this sidequest.

Head down to the bottom of the North Crater first; when the group meets up again, you should get a phone call about stuff getting unlocked. I'm changing this in 1.5 so that the stuff just unlocks as soon as you get to Disc 3 as this issue comes up a lot.

0rB!t

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5344 on: 2017-05-20 00:52:56 »
Is there any chance of this modification going out for Android?


(Just Asking :-P)

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5345 on: 2017-05-20 02:14:22 »
Only if it's possible to get the FF7 files off the phone and onto a PC (they're the same as the PC files, just encrypted) and there was then a way to get them back onto the phone reassembled with the patched files. Unless it's possible to patch them ON the phone with an app?

0rB!t

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5346 on: 2017-05-20 02:54:34 »
Only if it's possible to get the FF7 files off the phone and onto a PC (they're the same as the PC files, just encrypted) and there was then a way to get them back onto the phone reassembled with the patched files. Unless it's possible to patch them ON the phone with an app?

The first option seems possible since compression was not as complex as the Final Fantasy IV, it's funny how I managed to open the file with WinRAR, I'll see if there is some kind of MD5/CRC check or something.

http://i.imgur.com/sQRD5Et.png

Already the issue of the application, a modified launcher could be developed, however it would be tricky to have the application upload the modified files along with the originals, I'm not a developer but I help some friends with translations into Portuguese and they tell me about these things.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5347 on: 2017-05-20 03:13:43 »
So there is a data folder; inside that should be a scene.bin, a kernel.bin, kernel2.bin, a battle.lgp, and an flevel.lgp. If those can be replaced with the NT versions, and the app put back together, then it should be patched unless there's some security over file modification. Could you show me a screenshot or two of the contents of the data folder? Specifically the data/battle and data/lang-en? (lang-en may have a slightly different name due to language)
« Last Edit: 2017-05-20 03:15:27 by Sega Chief »

0rB!t

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5348 on: 2017-05-20 03:31:30 »
So there is a data folder; inside that should be a scene.bin, a kernel.bin, kernel2.bin, a battle.lgp, and an flevel.lgp. If those can be replaced with the NT versions, and the app put back together, then it should be patched unless there's some security over file modification. Could you show me a screenshot or two of the contents of the data folder? Specifically the data/battle and data/lang-en? (lang-en may have a slightly different name due to language)

data
http://i.imgur.com/ri968to.png

data/lang
http://i.imgur.com/NZmM9mY.png

data/battle
http://i.imgur.com/z8OEyUj.png

I'm going to run some tests here with the instructions you gave me.

0rB!t

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #5349 on: 2017-05-20 14:04:58 »
The file-checking system always fails.

This will only be in the dreams for now, I will find some way to develop a launcher only for these modified files or change the verification files but it can take a while.

Thanks for the replies Sega Chief.