Author Topic: New Materia  (Read 19231 times)

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #25 on: 2009-09-01 05:20:01 »
Say someone hypothetically got this to work, what materia would they make? Other then ZOMG! that is

Wind and Water would be my priorities (see my second post in the thread  :-P). In my game, they replace FullCure and Exit ATM. I suppose one might also want to make Strength Plus and Vitality Plus.

Costa07

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #26 on: 2009-09-01 05:24:22 »
So the only way to make new materia is to place the other materia am i correct or is this topic trying to create and put in new materia with out replacing another one

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #27 on: 2009-09-01 05:41:07 »
Actually, the answer to both your questions is yes. We want to make new materia without replacing anything else, but we can't. :|

drfeelgud88

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #28 on: 2009-09-01 05:44:01 »
I wish I knew how to do that Wind/Water material that you made Kudistos. But it sounds complicating and I know nothing about editing this stuff so yeah.  :oops:

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #29 on: 2009-09-01 05:47:01 »
What I did isn't very complicated at all :3

All it took was replacing some values in WallMarket; if I'm in a good mood tomorrow (it's 6:45 on Tuesday here, but it's Monday night to me :wink:), I'll tell you exactly what I did, but now I'm going to play Fate/Stay Night and then go to bed. brb :-P
« Last Edit: 2009-09-01 05:48:41 by Kudistos Megistos »

drfeelgud88

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #30 on: 2009-09-01 05:49:48 »
What I did isn't very complicated at all :3

All it took was replacing some values in WallMarket; if I'm in a good mood tomorrow (it's 6:45 on Tuesday here, but it's Monday night to me :wink:), I'll tell you exactly what I did, but now I'm going to play Fate/Stay Night and then go to bed. brb :-P
Alright, cool. Sounds awesome, I look forward to it!  :-)

Costa07

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #31 on: 2009-09-01 09:29:17 »
Ok well replacing materia with another is easy with the right tools now making one with out replacing is more complex. hmm ok so what bin is all the materia in?

NFITC1

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #32 on: 2009-09-01 13:23:45 »
All materia info is in the KERNEL.BIN other than placement in the field.

There are about a dozen blank materia. Almost any of these could likely be created into something as long as it were referenced somewhere like a shop or the field.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #33 on: 2009-09-01 16:02:26 »
Actually, the answer to both your questions is yes. We want to make new materia without replacing anything else, but we can't. :|

I think what I said here was a little misleading (i.e. wrong). We can make new materia without replacing anything, but we can't give it any new effects without replacing something (that is to say, we can't make magic materia with completely new spells; we have to replace old spells).

NFITC1

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #34 on: 2009-09-01 16:25:32 »
I knew what you meant, but I thought it prudent to clarify that new materia for materia's sake is possible to create. It might be interesting/important to note that magic, summon, and several command materia needs to stay as is since they're used to create Master materias. You could still create more magic materia, but if you want the Master Magic to reflect it, that's yet another issue to resolve. :(
Still, you could create different materia. I always thought a low-level, mid-level, high-level materia was in order.

Low-level:
Fire (initial),
Ice (100 AP),
Bolt (200 AP),
Quake (350 AP),
MASTER at 1500 AP

Mid-Level:
Fire2 (initial),
Ice2  (1000 AP),
Bolt2 (1500 AP),
Quake2 (2400 AP),
MASTER at 5000 AP

High-level:
Fire3 (2500 AP),
Ice3 (6000 AP),
Bolt3 (9000 AP),
Quake3 (15000 AP),
MASTER at 15000 AP

Then Contain has the "Ultra" level spells. The AP would likely have to be increased and the spell power would have to be adjusted to account for the later acquisition of Ice and Bolt. I think this would be a more natural progression (So you can't get, say, Ice3 before you are able to buy an Fire materia) so long as you don't allow access to the high-level too early in the game.

This is the issue I'm talking about. Mastering this won't count toward a Master Magic unless you replace Ice, Fire, and Bolt materias with these. Then to keep the game balanced you'd have to get rid of all references to Fire, Ice, and Bolt materias until later in the game. This would even free the Quake materia to contain up to four new spells!

This would also likely mean no early Beta learning since You'd have to take the elemental attribute off of these materia. That is, unless you want to give elemental attributes to command materia... Ya know, this is starting to be a really good idea. :D

titeguy3

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #35 on: 2009-09-01 18:42:26 »
I added a "Horology" spell to my game. The game's damage calculation options actually supports doing damage equal to the number of minutes on the game clock. After some digging, I realized the only monster who uses this method of damage calculation is the Tonberry (who you virtually never encounter outside of the gold saucer) with the attack "Time Damage". I used the same animation (which looks awesome, btw) and renamed it "Horology" and added it to the end of "Time" materia. This is just an example, though, there are tons of spells that the game can use... "Blind", "Aero/Aerora/Aeroga", "Water/Watera/Waterga", "Drain", "Holy", "Dark/Darkra/Darkga", "Petrify/Stone"... with some Kernel.bin AI editing, it might even be possible to make a "Zombie" spell or a "Grow" spell (opposite of "mini").
« Last Edit: 2009-09-01 18:45:05 by titeguy3 »

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #36 on: 2009-09-01 18:47:07 »
I made a "blind" spell as well :-D

And about "Zombie"...

Wouldn't that require modding the AI of every single enemy that's weak against it?

Or at least modding the AI of every character so that they can set themselves as the enemy and changing their elemental strengths and weaknesses? Sounds like a lot of work; you'd also have to figure out a way of making some enemies immune to it, or players will be able to get two hit kills on any boss (that might be the easiest part of getting zombie to work :roll:).

titeguy3

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #37 on: 2009-09-01 18:53:46 »
Haha, that's very true. It'd certainly be a lot easier to make it one of the "affects player character only" spells, but that would sort of defeat the purpose. (although being zombie could entail nullifying physical damage)

I tried to do this actually, but gave up after I decided that if it were going to work that way it might as well be an equip-able item...hence the "Zombie Brace"! Nullifies all physical damage and health when equipped. Steal-able from Gi Nattak and acquirable at the gold saucer chocobo races! (who needs a "Precious Watch", anyways?)
« Last Edit: 2009-09-01 18:56:16 by titeguy3 »

Costa07

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #38 on: 2009-09-02 06:01:30 »
Ok quick question how come when you open wallmarket121 there is empty spaces in the spells and in the materia so you cant just enter in a new spell and a new materia instead of replacing one i been at it all day tryin to figure it out if some one has some valuable info i would really like to hear your reasons y it wont work or how we can get it to work

Costa07

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #39 on: 2009-09-02 09:16:30 »








So as you can see i tried to make a new material without replacing another and just starting of the game with it equiped using wallmarket its equiped but it just doesn't seem to show up in magic screen or in battle in thoughts on this?

NFITC1

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #40 on: 2009-09-02 13:17:14 »
#1. use punctuation

#2. don't post duplicate pictures

#3. don't double-post

If your Aero3 is a "new magic" (in the gap between Shield and Choco/Mog) then it won't show up in the magic menu. That gap exists because there is data there, but it's ignored by the game. Nothing you can do, short of re-writing a LOT of stuff, will get it to show up.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #41 on: 2009-09-02 16:59:40 »
OK, a few people have been asking me for help on making the spells in my video, so here are screencaps taken from their data in WallMarket, as well as the data from their materia.

If you copy this exactly, you should be able to make them work. BTW, there are a few issues:

  • The spell order will be weird, so you'll have to change that with WallMarket to whatever you think is best.
  • I have changed the strength and MP cost of most of the attack magic in the game; it's all more powerful but costs more. My wind and water spells are meant to be exactly as strong as quake spells, so you might want to change the strength and MP cost.
  • Spells that get replaced are: DeBarrier (DeSpell will do its job), exit, remove, bio 2 & 3 (I've decided to make bio classified as a "status" spell that happens to do damage to justify only having one level) and demi 2 & 3 (demi now takes away 1/2 of HP, as it should do with a name like that). I've realised that since I got rid of Fullcure materia I should get rid of the spell as well, so I'll think of something new to go in its place.
  • I've noticed that wallmarket incorrectly displayed some materia levelling data (see here; Revive should go up to level 3). I'll look into this further, to see whether it's just a problem with modded kernel.bins.


« Last Edit: 2009-09-02 17:12:25 by Kudistos Megistos »

Tsetra

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #42 on: 2009-09-02 19:07:48 »
Costa, what you've encountered is precisely the issue we've been discussing. NFITC1 laid out the steps that would be required to overcome the issue and as you can see, it's not pretty. Fortunately, it IS possible though.

Costa07

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #43 on: 2009-09-02 20:09:18 »

If your Aero3 is a "new magic" (in the gap between Shield and Choco/Mog) then it won't show up in the magic menu. That gap exists because there is data there, but it's ignored by the game. Nothing you can do, short of re-writing a LOT of stuff, will get it to show up.

I put in the slot between barrier and time i think there is one empty space there but i guess the game still ignores it but i guess untill we get a program to pull out the raw data to rewrite it well just have to simply replace materia we dont need (fullcure underwater ect.)

NFITC1

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #44 on: 2009-09-02 21:39:18 »

If your Aero3 is a "new magic" (in the gap between Shield and Choco/Mog) then it won't show up in the magic menu. That gap exists because there is data there, but it's ignored by the game. Nothing you can do, short of re-writing a LOT of stuff, will get it to show up.

I put in the slot between barrier and time i think there is one empty space there but i guess the game still ignores it but i guess untill we get a program to pull out the raw data to rewrite it well just have to simply replace materia we dont need (fullcure underwater ect.)

You're not listening (reading, whatever). The new Attack Data for this Aero3 magic will only show up if it is replacing a magic attack. Materia can be added without consequence as long as it's referenced by putting it in a chest, on the field, obtained through a dialog, or purchasable in a shop. Any Materia entry on the materia tab that does not have a name can be safely edited and added to the game.

Costa07

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #45 on: 2009-09-02 21:48:02 »
? So what your saying is that it is possible to add totally new materia in the game without replacing another or you have to replace another

Matt2Tees

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #46 on: 2009-09-02 23:08:56 »
? So what your saying is that it is possible to add totally new materia in the game without replacing another or you have to replace another

You can add new materia

You can't add new spells for the materia without replacing another magic

Masa-Buster

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #47 on: 2009-09-02 23:10:46 »
Maybe if we fill in all the dummy materia with materia (Just make it some useless spell like....THROW!!!) and maybe they will show up randomly in game? Example: Maybe the 1st dummy materia can be bought from a Materia Shop in Midgar or Kalm.

Matt2Tees

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #48 on: 2009-09-02 23:26:31 »
Maybe if we fill in all the dummy materia with materia (Just make it some useless spell like....THROW!!!) and maybe they will show up randomly in game? Example: Maybe the 1st dummy materia can be bought from a Materia Shop in Midgar or Kalm.

Maybe, but I doubt it, If that were the case you'd be able to scroll down and highlight the dummy materia while browsing in the shop. Changing a dummy materia's name and putting random spells into it shouldn't change anything in the shops...

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: New Materia
« Reply #49 on: 2009-09-02 23:29:01 »
...Unless there's some weird glitch in the game, but that's unlikely. If you want any new materia to appear, you'll have to do what NFITC1 said and edit the shops or the field script.