Author Topic: Apologies to all sephy fans  (Read 11692 times)

Nanaki

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Apologies to all sephy fans
« on: 2005-02-09 12:44:08 »
i just wanna know, why do a lot / few artists show Zack and Cloud as well a gay couple or worse, Cloud head over heels in love with sephy.

Cloud he flirts too much with the girls but still hmm and Zack well you dont know that much about him but i regret to say this... My friend (would you believe shes a sephy fan) said to me and had a thoughtful look on her face.
Quote from: Rachael
look at a concept art pic of sephy no male as far as i know (excluding models) that has eyebrows that well groomed



that made me think and post this... if its too dumb to believe Mods feel free to delete.

Nanaki^_^
Rachael said not wrote doh

SephyCloudyWhatserface_Lil.Yufi

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« Reply #1 on: 2005-02-09 12:50:30 »
how dare you He He
nah if image searches still worked on by computer and i could either provide a link or show a perfect example of what you are talking about

PS too late

Bunnie-Maru

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« Reply #2 on: 2005-02-09 15:07:59 »
Trust me, I dont think you want an example  :o

Almighty_gir

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« Reply #3 on: 2005-02-09 15:24:42 »
hmmm well i dont think ive ever seen any kind of images that you describe, but i guess its probably down to the artist seeing what he/she wants to see? that would be the simplest explaination...

Qhimm

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« Reply #4 on: 2005-02-09 15:27:09 »
I think this thread is rapidly approaching something this forum doesn't want to see. Not that I'm censoring, I just think we should let this one go past unnoticed. Do a search for "yaoi cloud zack" or any other characters for that matter. Don't say we didn't warn you though.

EmperorSteele

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« Reply #5 on: 2005-02-09 18:07:10 »
Well, just look at AC: Sephy is wearing mascara, and what looks like purple lipstick.  Same with Vincent.

You see, in japan, Feminine-like beauty is considered a good thing for a male in japan.  Thats why so many anime and video game male charactrs will have softer features, long hair, etc.

Ya know, i actually enjoy the fact that yaoi exists.  You see, usually, the characters therein LOOK and ACT like GIRLS... and if girls are perpetuating this act of girls-on-girls (for all intents and purposes), then that means all these girls are secretly lesbains!  And i find that funny.

DarkestDream

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« Reply #6 on: 2005-02-09 20:51:14 »
Quote from: EmperorSteele
Well, just look at AC: Sephy is wearing mascara, and what looks like purple lipstick.  Same with Vincent.

You see, in japan, Feminine-like beauty is considered a good thing for a male in japan.  Thats why so many anime and video game male charactrs will have softer features, long hair, etc.

Ya know, i actually enjoy the fact that yaoi exists.  You see, usually, the characters therein LOOK and ACT like GIRLS... and if girls are perpetuating this act of girls-on-girls (for all intents and purposes), then that means all these girls are secretly lesbains!  And i find that funny.



Emperor, you know Yaoi mean gay in japanese....


And yes i saw some image similar to that. my friend sent those image to me for no reason.

one of my friend sent me one iamge that cloud and barret doing together  :o

Ged

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« Reply #7 on: 2005-02-10 07:26:49 »
Read through this thread for more on it - http://forums.qhimm.com/viewtopic.php?t=3375 .. Really, the whole Zack x Cloud x Sephiroth material is exploited there..

Yaoi does not exactly stand for gay.. It's more of the "plot? what plot?" translation for gay themed things drawn.. If you actually come to a store and say "yaoi" they are "?". Say "higuri yuu, maki murakami, yoko matsushita" and they are "aaa...! shounen-ai!". And that's the term for "boy love".

And about Sephiroth and AC. He's proven his feminity in one, very strong way - the end of trailer sentence "watashi wa omoide ni wa naranai sa". When a man is using "watashi" it already is a 'subtle' hint on him, and "sa" as well (though it can also imply feminity and sub of the person he is talking to). What EmperorSteele said about men-view-in-Japan is true. The more feminine the better a hero will be. For Japanese for everone to have a pinch of homosexuality is the perfect resolution, contrary Europeans which have a thing against that..

Nanaki

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« Reply #8 on: 2005-02-10 09:35:51 »
That explains a lot i guess
and heh just one look at the google image search Cloud + Zack FF7 (results Enchantingmuse etc)
now makes sense :p
by the way Qhimm i didnt want nor intend for this topic to get as far as censoring ...i just wanted to know why.

Nanaki ^_^
PS White Widow a) dont bother b) why would  this topic Need examples.

mirex

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« Reply #9 on: 2005-02-10 10:52:02 »
Ged: interesting. Could you also post english translation of those texts you written in japanese-or-what-ist-it ?

Qhimm

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« Reply #10 on: 2005-02-10 13:18:27 »
First of all, yes Japanese like their heroes to be feminine men or masculine women. Men without so much testosterone are much better at emanating that oh-so-important "cool" image in Japan. We prefer macho guys like Bruce Willis who jumps from buildings and figures out things as he goes, while in Japan the more refined style, the man who keeps a cool head and has all the answers already is more popular. This often (but not necessarily) coincides with a more feminine style too, which would make typical westeners go "gaaaay", but then the Japanese have a much more relaxed attitude to this kind of thing anyway. Bishonen represent good-looking, clever (unless it's hyper-bishonen) and cool, which is something we all wish we could be, no? The gay stuff is just an interesting side-effect, imo. Now, the actual reply: :P

Quote from: Ged
And about Sephiroth and AC. He's proven his feminity in one, very strong way - the end of trailer sentence "watashi wa omoide ni wa naranai sa". When a man is using "watashi" it already is a 'subtle' hint on him, and "sa" as well (though it can also imply feminity and sub of the person he is talking to). What EmperorSteele said about men-view-in-Japan is true. The more feminine the better a hero will be. For Japanese for everone to have a pinch of homosexuality is the perfect resolution, contrary Europeans which have a thing against that..

Actually, "watashi" is relatively gender neutral. While "boku" and "ore" are more exclusively used by men, "watashi" is frequently used among both genders. Among men it is often used when you want a more refined or polite level of speech than the casual "boku" or the impolite "ore". It is only feminine in the sense that it is less masculine.

The "sa" pattern is also used among both genders, although in slightly varying situations. There's the slang sound of just adding "sa" throughout your sentences to serve as small pauses (like "ano", "eto", "ga", "kedo" etc. can be used), and there's the more grammatical use, where "sa" is similar in meaning to "yo"; it adds a sense of sureness, personal conviction or explanation/reason. In this sense, as spoken by Sephiroth, "sa" is in fact a bit masculine and used more frequently among men than women.

That having been said, "sa" isn't particularly masculine and there are certainly lots of more "raw" wordings you can use to express your manliness. Doing so often lowers the class of the speech though, and I suspect this is the primary reason Sephiroth speaks the way he does. He's a madman, but he's not a stupid madman. He's a psychopath who thinks himself better than the world, he's clearly not going to speak like some testosterone-crazed teenager. He's more refined than that, and his speech reflects that as being less raw/masculine.

In closing, I wouldn't call his one line so far in AC a proof of his femininity. He's got the bishonen look (which is why he's so popular in shonen-ai), but he's clearly not the type to groom his eyebrows when he wakes up in the morning. :P If he's feminine, it's more because of the rather striking contrast to our western muscle-pumped characters of macho manliness. Just my two yen of course, I'm just saying that by Japanese bishonen standards he's still quite macho. :)
(the official Sephiroth that is, fan versions of him tend to ...use artistic license. Ooh boy. ~_~ )

In second closing, it's amazing what a long analysis I managed to make from that one sentence he speaks... I haven't even played the Japanese version of FF7 to see his speech patterns there. ^_^;

Ged

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« Reply #11 on: 2005-02-10 18:05:38 »
Actually his closing line can be interpret both ways. Mine, and Qhimm's, and both are right. My friend that has been studying the language not as learning it, but mainly concentrating on its structure has analyzed the sentence as a FF7 fan and came up with two options. Both written above. In japanese it really matters when and to who you say it. And we cannot tell that about the "watashi wa ..".

mirex : Higuri Yuu ("Seimaden"); Maki Murakami ("Gravitation"); Yoko Matsushita ("Yami no Matsuei") are famous yaoi/shounen-ai artists from Japan. People when buying mangas in Japan tend to make blurt of authors towards the shop owner to find the part of the store with the particular genre. "shounen-ai" is exactly boys love (as "bishounen" is beautiful boy). "Watashi wa omoide ni wa naranai sa" is Sephiroth closing line for newer AC trailers and means something like "I will not/I shall not (you pick) become a memory".

mirex

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« Reply #12 on: 2005-02-11 07:35:59 »
Ah thanks a lot (to you both) for a linguistic window into japanese :) It was interesting. These faces of languages interest me quite a lot.

Ged

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« Reply #13 on: 2005-02-11 13:57:22 »
Reading back I noticed that I heavily implied that the sentence is the one and only proof, the godly sentence that has all written in it about Sephiroth.. Well, uh, didn't mean to stress on it *that* hard >_<

Tifa Lockheart

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Re: Apologies to all sephy fans
« Reply #14 on: 2005-03-01 12:36:48 »
Quote from: Nanaki
My friend (would you believe shes a sephy fan) said to me and had a thoughtful look on her face.


awww...thank you darling....well here I am..at long last...

Yes, it's true i did say that above, but what everyone here has explained quite frankly fits.....it does explain a lot....so I guess I would have to say thank you to all of them.....
However, is it such a bad thing that they appear gay? After all, this is just another representation of human beings and dilemmas. There fore, it would be stereotypical fo assume that they were straight, which nowadays isn't politically correct.......just another reason to consider. I think it makes the game so much more culturally diverse.

Nanaki

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« Reply #15 on: 2005-03-02 09:43:01 »
hey i wasnt complaining just commenting  
(i like the more feminine hero instead of huge unsightly muscles that take up more then a door frame anyway.)
but yah i agree Tifa  and besides it just proves you dont need to be on steroids to be a hero...

Nanaki ^_^
ps hiya teef Welcome (have you read the AC and DOC topics yet? PM me in reply)

Bunnie-Maru

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« Reply #16 on: 2005-03-03 04:11:10 »
Quote from: Qhimm
First of all, yes Japanese like their heroes to be feminine men or masculine women.


No wonder Michael Jackson is so god damn popular overseas...

My apologies in advance, I know its an old quote, but the idea was fresh, and the thread was already somewhat revived. Might as well get a stab in too while the cow's turned the other way.

 :P

Nanaki

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« Reply #17 on: 2005-03-03 12:32:43 »
well you can tell why the titles insane poster, freak ETC exist
 :D

Tifa Lockheart

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« Reply #18 on: 2005-03-04 12:34:56 »
Hmm...now, now, Nanaki, put those claws away, won't you?

I actually agree with Bunnie-Maru....s/he's definitely got a point.
Can I actually ask what the main point of this topic is? Because there doesn't seem to be one....just so I don't go off topic.

Even though I already have, but I needed to, so, sorry.