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Messages - Cyberman

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51
Yep; that would be my second choice. I'm fairly familiar with PS1 cheats, having founded GameHacking.org as GSHI in 1999, back when we exclusively hacked GameShark codes :)  My FF7 codes, along with those of many others, can be found here: http://gamehacking.org/?game=88853  (although we're in the middle of a database revamp, so there's a little tidying up underway still)
That explains your familiarity with the format data. I remember once joining game hacking ... I think I was working on CC codes that didn't have to do with cheating (LOL). :D I know I'm odd (that's what people tell me anyhow).

Erstwhile adding models to the field is a rather fun idea. I suppose if one made a large blank tiled background ... nevermind :D

Cyb

52
Team Avalanche / Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« on: 2013-04-12 20:54:27 »
Updating... only one more bunch of flowers to go!

Talking about the scaling issue, it's actually fortunate that hibiscus makes such big flowers (more than 20 cm in diameter). They're very fitting as the table centrepiece, given the huge flowers in the original scene.
Otherwise, I wonder if I should upload a "make a flower" tutorial at this rate. The scene features flowers similar to lilies, marigolds, pansies, gladiolus, hibiscus, and I'll finish with some potted penstemon.
Consider the number of scenese with flowers, the church, the ancient forest, that's just off the top of my head. I can't remember about the chocobo farm but ... somehow.

I would say "please do so" but don't kill yourself doing it :D

Give it a try, sometimes by trying to do a tutorial you can vastly improve what you do yourself. (my case anyhow)

Cyb

53
Since you know where to find these values for the PC version, would you mind providing the values for X/Y/Triangle upon entering a specific field, so I can lazily identify where they're stored in the PSX version?
If you take a known fixed location (IE the game stuffs you at that location) and then get his memory dump you can use PSX utilis to scan the memory for a match.

I believe the GTE (PS1) uses data with a 12bit fractions in it's engine (hence why it appears shifted by 12 then they force it to an integer value).
It might take a few tries but it has a somehat fair chance of success.
You might also want to look at the PS1 cheat codes and see if anything is available in them similiar

Cyb

54
Team Avalanche / Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« on: 2013-04-09 10:59:30 »
Thanks for the little details! They are useful in livening up the scene a bit and... nice wall texture :)

Wood is  oak right?
Hmmm it could be clear pine or poplar ... no looks to me to be clear pine oak I believe has a slightly different pattern, this is more poplar maple or clear pine. The number of wood patterns is nigh unto impossible to enumerate.

Hi guys,

Just showing what I've been up to this weekend...

... making the flowers is so time-consuming! I still have 3 and a half flower bunches to do...
I remember doing a christmas tree once, I made a single needle ... and then I had to use a dither pattern and spirally wind the needles around each branch, The same deal with the branches branching and thickness adjustment. It ended up being a study in fractals (mutters) and 'the soccer' formulea of form generation. Their are some nifty plant and flower generators in the web that made my little program ... look bad (LOL).

Anyhow I digress (and I wonder where the image of that tree is...). Plants are difficult if you don't use a parametric generation system with some sort of control system.

Cyb

55
Team Avalanche / Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« on: 2013-04-03 22:53:33 »
So... actually I did render the image at full resolution, but again I had troubles to upload it. So what you have here is a 50% size of the full-res that I rendered. As you can see I mostly need to make the flowers. There's also something weird going on with the glass of the kitchen cabinet, where it looks completely black... I wonder what kind of reflection led to that (and I hope to correct it at some point). There may be a few things to retouch.
By the way, I'm also coming across a certain issue which will be recurrent in many scenes, and that's something that was pointed out by Timu and Ulpian in the Sector 6 thread (about the fence bordering the playground): a bunch of objects in the original scenes (and in this one in particular) have very awkward scales. For instance, the teacups in ealin_1 would be the size of bowls in the original image, while the flowers have ridiculous proportions (they would be some 50 cm across). They were made so in the original scenes because the very low resolution was a cause for enlarging these objects in proportions that would make them recognizable by the viewer. I believe we would need to make a few corrections in that department. Still, I would like the opinion of the mods in that respect, namely to figure if we should do that kind of changes systematically. Modellers would have more work because we would need to figure what should be the proper scale of the objects involved in the scene (as opposed to following the original image blindly).
You have made an important point, a lot of the things they did were to make sure the details weren't invisable at the 320x224 game resolution on the playstation. As far as I know correcting for scale as needed is a good idea. However I cannot speak for your team.  There are a lot of objects that were too small to render without having higher resolution (obvious statement).

That being said, most of these are interior field locations. Although the ones that are at that beach town aren't all "indoors".

Cyb

56
I have started to port it to python, I'll post it here once it is done.
Python is cool, that should work under linux without any fiddling around.
In the mean time I'll see if I can get the "old" one working under linux (with some error checking of course). I had complete forgot about this .. duh?

Cyb

57
Cyberman: Ah; that explains a lot (and makes me feel less annoyed that I was unable to make heads or tails of the format, heh). I've read that wiki page (also, where did those images go?).

halkun: I may do just that. Time to get knee-deep in r3000 ASM again  :)
Hmmm a few small suggestions
1:  You should be able to write the code using C/C++ (not asm) the main reason is all those functions were likely written as C functions and they used the linker to make them "load" into specific locations.  Which of course doesn't immediately help you, but it's likely too be C code they have.
2:  You probably want to take halkun's advice and look for 'system' calls in the code. I suggest taking one of the 'menus' and reversing it. The best bet might be 'new game' if possible. You can then take the code and look at how it behaves.
3:  Don't drive yourself insane have us do it for you.... with suggestions ;)

Cyb

58
In some of Akari's QGears testing (for example, this - http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13252.0), I've seen modified versions of what I believe is BGINMENU.MNU (SAVEMENU.MNU for some reason contains the Buster Sword TIM, but the menu itself is BGINMENU.MNU, if I'm not mistaken). However, digging around in BGINMENU.MNU hasn't yielded any appreciable results.

Anyone have a clue as to how this was done?
Yes someone can...


Oh wait you want to know how ... LOL (evil grin)
Actually that is a script in the Q-gears engine. What q-gears does is extract the game data and converts it into meta data and data. The actual script though is in LUA and runs in q-gears. Look at this message and this message in the q-gears forum.

Unfortunately t's all in the LUA scripting.

However you do pose a good question halkun (or if pixel is around) might be able to help with that as I never messed with the code. In any case you If I remember correctly the start menu is actual software (IE program code) that starts the script engine to do stuff. So I believe it's MIPS3 code (heh).  I believe it might be also in the wiki ... somewhere I know it was discussed circa 2005/6 somewhere.

This wiki entry may be of use.

Cyb

59
In case it's of interest, I've also done so for load_background and main:

Code: [Select]

$ gdb stageview
GNU gdb (GDB) 7.4
Copyright (C) 2012 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
License GPLv3+: GNU GPL version 3 or later <http://gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html>
This is free software: you are free to change and redistribute it.
There is NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law.  Type "show copying"
and "show warranty" for details.
This GDB was configured as "i686-pc-mingw32".
For bug reporting instructions, please see:
<http://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/bugs/>...
Reading symbols from C:\MinGW\msys\1.0\home\[USER OMITTED]\stageview.exe...done.
(gdb) b main
Breakpoint 1 at 0x402c41: file stageview.cpp, line 477.
(gdb) r C:\MinGW\msys\1.0\home\[USER OMITTED]\stage04.lzs
Starting program: C:\MinGW\msys\1.0\home\[USER OMITTED]\stageview.exe C:\MinGW\msys\1.0\home\[USER OMITTED]\stage04.lzs
[New Thread 3776.0x1ac]

Breakpoint 1, main (argc=2, argv=0x3e26f8) at stageview.cpp:477
477     {
(gdb) n
478             if (argc != 2) {
(gdb) n
483                     getcwd(cwd, sizeof(cwd));
(gdb) n
485                   string path;
(gdb) n
486                     if (argv[1][0] != 0 && argv[1][0] != '/' && argv[1][1] !
= 0 && argv[1][1] != ':' && argv[1][2] != 0 && argv[1][2] != '\\') {
(gdb) n
491                     glutInit(&argc, (char **) argv);
(gdb) n
492                     glutInitWindowSize(640, 480);
(gdb) n
493                     glutInitDisplayMode(GLUT_SINGLE | GLUT_RGBA | GLUT_DEPTH
);
(gdb) n
494                     glutCreateWindow(argv[0]);
(gdb) n
495                     glutDisplayFunc(MainRenderLoop);
(gdb) n
496                     glutIdleFunc(MainRenderLoop);
(gdb) n
497                     glutReshapeFunc(ReshapeWindowFunc);
(gdb) n
498                     glutKeyboardFunc(KeyboardHandler);
(gdb) n
499                     glutSpecialFunc(SpecialHandler);
(gdb) n
502                     load_background(path + argv[1], &battle);
(gdb) n

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x00401414 in get_u32le (buf=0x0) at stageview.cpp:45
45              return ((u8*)buf)[0] | (((u8*)buf)[1]<<8) | (((u8*)buf)[2]<<16)
| (((u8*)buf)[3]<<24);
(gdb)


...but as you can see, it's the same issue.
LB: If you look carefully the debugger indicated buf was a NULL pointer (see this line)
Code: [Select]
0x00401414 in get_u32le (buf=0x0) at stageview.cpp:45
45              return ((u8*)buf)[0] | (((u8*)buf)[1]<<8) | (((u8*)buf)[2]<<16)
| (((u8*)buf)[3]<<24);
which means it can't dereference a reference to NULL in the function (by the way should it be checking for NULL pointers before using one?).
Erstwhile what Mickey was suggesting might be a bit difficult with straight gdb you could try debugging the application under Eclipse with MinGW. What I believe was being suggested was to inspect buf before it's used.

Cool; hopefully you can figure something out. If so, I'll add it to the GameHacking.org Downloads section, for posterity.

Not sure what you mean by "stepping over load_lzs". In the first post after yours, I set a breakpoint on load_lzs, and stepped through it...did I miss something?

It appears what is going wrong is before the get_u32le function is called because buf is being passed as a NULL pointer (0).

That is probably whats going wrong.
Code: [Select]
u16 get_u16le(void const * const buf)
{
u16 temp;

temp = 0;
if(buf)
{
temp = ((u8*)buf)[0] | (((u8*)buf)[1]<<8);
}
return temp;
}

u32 get_u32le(void const * const buf)
{
u32 temp;

temp = 0;
if(buf)
{
temp = ((u8*)buf)[0] | (((u8*)buf)[1]<<8) | (((u8*)buf)[2]<<16) | (((u8*)buf)[3]<<24);
}
return temp;
}
would prevent the error from croping up, however if it's passing NULL pointers that Is the real problem line 78 in function
Code: [Select]
int load_lzs(const string & name, void ** data ) is where get_u32le is called
Code: [Select]
int load_lzs(const string & name, void ** data )
{
// read compressed data
u8 *buf;
int tsize = load( name, (void**)&buf );
int isize = get_u32le(buf) + 4;
The prior function call is likely returning a NULL pointer in buff (hence the load function is likely too blame).
going to load
Code: [Select]
int load( const string & name, void ** data )
{
        size_t size = 0;
        *data = NULL;
        int fd = open( name.c_str(), O_RDONLY, 0 );
initializes data to NULL (or buf since this is a reference to buf in the prior function).
skipping a bit further down if it can't open the file or can't allocate the space it returns NULL for the buffer and 0 for the size.

Code: [Select]
        if (fd >= 0) {
                struct stat sb;
                if ( fstat( fd, &sb ) >= 0) {
                        assert( sb.st_size > 0 );
                        void *tmp = malloc( sb.st_size );
                        if ( tmp!=NULL ) {
                                if (read( fd, tmp, sb.st_size ) == sb.st_size) {
                                        *data = tmp;
                                        size = sb.st_size;
                                } else {
                                        free(tmp);
                                }
                        }
                }
                close( fd );
        }
        return size;
}

So it may make sense to do something like
Code: [Select]
int load_lzs(const string & name, void ** data )
{
// read compressed data
u8 *buf;
int tsize, isize;

// attempt to open file
tsize = load( name, (void**)&buf );
// if we successfully opened the file
if(tsize)
{ // get the internal file size and add the header value
isize = get_u32le(buf) + 4;
// if the file size and the internal file size + offset aren't equal
if (isize != tsize) {
free(buf);
*data = NULL;
return 0;
}
}
else
{ // clean up
*data = NULL;
return 0;
}
I'm not sure where one would dump errors too (error.log?) granted this tool was Micky's quick hack, so yes their might be a few 'problems' with it if everything isn't perfect. Anyhow THAT is why Micky was saying it's probably having a problem with opening the file.

Cyb

60
Team Avalanche / Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« on: 2013-03-12 00:46:20 »
Hey guys,

After some various delays, I finally managed to get a new render of my ealin_1 scene. It's still WIP of course (the furniture needs to be filled with miscellaneous stuff), but I hope it will also serve to get this forum out of the limbo.
Looks pretty good too me. I could nit pick but that doesn't help. (For example not enough particulate matter how can a house be the clean, kind of sillyness).
The question is do YOU like it (LOL). I don't remember seeing the original and it might take me a bit to get FF7 up and working on the PC.
I can't say where my original playstation is, and it might take a bit to get PCSX working under linux (if I can get bloody Gentoo too boot again).

Anyhow good enough I say. If it has the right color and light balance. You aren't going for photo realistic so ... anyhow.

Cyb

61
this will happen eventually . there is quite a bit of unconfirmed stuff on the Black chocobo wiki as well. this is what we tend not to merge back so fast, most of it is progression and item masks atm. other non questionable stuff i will update the qhimm wiki when my desktop is back up.
I remember doing the same for FF8 ...  the problem is you have to save a LOT in order to confirm each step. It can get monotonous and whats more crazy is you sometimes forget what you are doing and play the game for fun (OH MY GOD!)

Ahem FF7 has a lot of stuff in it. Some of the bit fields I suspect are for removed parts of the game such as the 1/35 size soldier thing.

As for your conversion game, hmmm, not sure what's easier in such a case.  Apart from enabling and disabling menu items. Do you plan on adding new field locations or modifying the existing ones? Seems too me you wish too do the later? (I remember the thread heh.)

Cyb

62
If you are running the playstation version under an emulator their should be a game shark style code to enable and disable it. That would indicate the global variable it's stored in memory at.

The PHS data as indicated by sithlord48 is stored in the 'memory' save as well. You may be able to actively disable it during each load.

The game does require you to ocassionally change squad members you might want to check and make sure you aren't impairing some of the game play by doing this (they do have it for a reason).

Cyb

63
General Discussion / Probably a dumb question but
« on: 2013-02-28 02:18:01 »
A few things
  • I still have Jenova Griever Dagger DLL based PS1 editors along with code.
  • I may port them to linux and GTK+ based window systems (with same plugin system as before)
  • I have a new toy called iso_builder I am working on.
The question ...

WHERE CAN I put discussion for these these here? It's been since 2006 I've worked on the PS1 stuff (computer issues to put it mildly).

However I've finally found the most crazy way to maintain them, it will work (maybe) :D

I plan to use sourceforge sometime for these
I may attempt to integrate the save game editors into Qgears (even)

Tools states "post no new threads" so ... these are game editors 3 and 1 utlity that may fit under game hacking tool (for chrono cross FF7/8 and 9 for now) iso_build.
iso_build I plan to later (as in months) encompass UDF based ISO images so FF10 and FF12 can also be "modified" as desired.

It's companion tool may be iso extract. The latter is much more complicated than assembling an ISO image and I've yet to figure how to make it work without some intimate knowedge of a disk or data.

Since these are both designed to work WITH a scripting language (IE python bash etc. ) It may be simple to make iso_extract work with these since it is designated to be a comand line tool like iso_build.

iso build is intended to be used with a tool like make (to assemble a new ISO file from a set of data files for example battle models and battle scenes). After said ISO is assembled editing the field bin file should be possible by using ISO extract to find locations within the new ISO file and programatically updating field bin and doing a second iso build to add the replacement file.

Anyhow any idea where I can post announce progress et al for these tools?

Cyb

64
Team Avalanche / Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« on: 2013-02-22 22:38:40 »
very punny of you!

Actually the CRT visual receiving system looks pretty darn good no aliasing patterns visable on the speaker section.

The sink looks ... like a sink! OH MY ... anyhow :D

Visually they aren't stunning but then again they weren't in the originalm so it's par for the course. They do add realism.

I always found it funny how many CRT's and stuff that Square threw in things, even though flat panels were known to be the wave of the future way back in 1989 (seriously). History is always interesting.

back to some fun erstwhile.

Cyb

65
Scripting and Reverse Engineering / Re: Mini-game Fixes
« on: 2013-02-20 21:53:09 »
For some reason...  the energy for the propellers is 2 and not 0.  I can't see any reason for this other than the fixer might have thought this was needed.
Or it could be an artifact sometimes when "fixing" something you do changes empirically instead of using a 'reasoned method' ahem (LOL).


Basically, the ONLY change from original Japanese to later revisions is the disabling of both zeppelin propellers... this was done because ALL objects that use ID 3 (like the boat rotor) have an internal bug.  The Rotor adds 1 point for the duration you are aimed at it AND keeps adding it when the bug occurs...  but the zeppelin had 2 propellers each worth 40 points... and when the bug happens... that's an ENORMOUS amount of points that get added (80x the boat rotor, and probably in the vicinity of 17000 points, I calculated it as 17760 maximum possible).
Interesting sounds like their are 2 potential sources for it. If it occurs in 2 seperate objects then it becomes suspicious. Are these objects in seperate games or seperate parts of the game ... (if you follow my reasoning).

rather than fix the bug itself, they have done what I have .... disabled the object.  I went one further and disabled the rotor as well. The rotor is every bit as buggy as the zeppelin... the difference is the small amount of points it adds (well... 222 is still too many) was something they could ignore.

Depends the bug may be in the actual script engine or in the script code. The person was likely told "do it now". Also their are other problems that aren't "apparent". If the person was the script writter and the script engine was now "done" (no bug fixes in the engine are now allowed) then the only way to fix it may have been to disable the offending objects.

Cyb

66
Team Avalanche / Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« on: 2013-01-17 01:48:34 »
You may say that it's a professional quirk that I want things to be functional  :-P  That being said, I think my modelling is improved by looking at actual references, so why not check out the real deal?
Well I prefer things be something close to right, it reminds me of a discussion someone had on Uncharted 3 about a section of the game where you crossed a ship in a storm. The original idea was too make the entire scene a repeated animation and fake the storm and that would be good. However the programmer said "why not make it a real wave simulation it's not like we don't have the power and more importantly it would not be predictable and thus more realistic".
Concerning the stones in the floor: using a displacement shader was a possibility that I examined in the first place. However, I couldn't find a proper displacement map which would remain faithful to the floor pattern of the original picture. If I were to draw the map myself with Paintshop, it would take pretty much the same time as making the actual mesh. Besides, making the mesh of the rock is less costly in terms of poly counts than subsufing the floor to the level required for a displacement shader, I think. So I eventually decided to go for making a mesh of the floor. In a sense, I feel like the time I am spending making this mesh will be compensated by the fact that texturing it will be much simpler that way.
I concure actually, I prefer to do that because textures and faking it don't always work in all cases. I have been doing optical simulations using polycarbonate material index of refractions and it iritates the crap out of me that I can't vary the IOR based on the wavelength of light. Their are a number of interesting distortions one gets in materials that aren't obvious, for example IOR is non linear (and so plastic prismatic behavior is different than diamond glass or flourine based materials). I like things to look real not 'good enough' LOL. So if you actually create a flour that can be shaded in all circumstances it will save you time screwing around with other fiddling details such as stretching the uv map to look right in a fixed direction. I find it harder to twiddle textures than make shapes.
By the way, for reference, here are the wires, though they show some levels of subsurf (3 levels of subsurf on stair pillars and studs, 2 levels of subsurf on the rocks). As far as the unsubsurfed mesh is concerned, the stair pillars and studs are based on 16 sided cylinders, and each rock is actually based on 12 faces.
I've a dumb question, I know blender supports python scripting etc. Isn't their surface brushes available to 'brush' on rock surfaces in fitted patterns? It seems like a common feature / need too me. I have seen a lot of games use surface normal textures or height fields to perform the same affect as individual rocks.  It's very similiar to using terrain making software.

Anyhow looks too me you are doing fine with what your working on and enjoying it. That's the important part, don't do stuff you can't enjoy.

Cyb

67
Not forever, but only dropping in once every few months or so.  Life and all that you know.
Well, my favorite method is to go through on occasion to see what's up. Sometimes I say useful things too (LOL).
Life happens (looks at shoe) way too often sometimes.

Cyb

68
Team Avalanche / Re: [HD Remake] WIP Sector 5 slums
« on: 2013-01-01 22:57:39 »
While the strongest soft shadow settings feels more realistic, some shadows are so softened that they completely disappear. I think namely of the shadow of the rectangular pipe that is casted on the rotating beacon, in the top corner of the room. With that in mind, I would rather choose soft shadow settings between 48 and 96, but I'm open to suggestions.

One other thing I am considering, though it is separate from the lighting/shadowing: I'm considering using a displacement to model the cracks in the wooden floor (bumpmaps are used so far) to have even more realistic shadows. I think it would improve the area around the doormat. However, I will have to subsurf the floor so much that I don't know if my computer can take it.
Doesn't Blender support radiosity and photons like POVray does? That was how I always rendered soft shadows. What radiosity does it create 'area' lighting based on the reflective properties of surfaces. Photons allows light to refract through a surface (think window glass light, lens affects and prisms). If you have light sources set in the scene there should be some way to create the area light sources to soften the shadows.

That's what I would do but ... blender was always a bit weird to work with for me, a bit counter intuitive so I always had a difficult time with fiddling with the settings. Drove me nuts "what I can't enter the exact size I have to use this screwy drag the edge thng, where's the snap... argh" hehehe.
That kind of stuff.

Cyb

69
A few notes.. you mentioned the models are flat. They aren't actually however they are rendered that way.

A different way of saying it is because of the system FF8 was targeted for was the PS1. It had 2 stages for rendering 3d data. The first stage was the GTE (Geometry Transform Engine) the second stage was the GPU. The GPU only understood 2d ploygons. Thus when the data was sent to the GPU it was 'flat' as you noticed. It is very likely the PC FF8 does the same thing as the Playstation FF8 did.

That being said. The data you are looking for in the world is part of the world map. So I would look in the world map data if you know where it is.

GF Hmm I think Qhimm might have a better clue about that I don't know if the gentleman is around but irregardless you may check the wiki to see if someone acidentally left information in there. :D

Cyb

70
Team Avalanche / Re: New Project: Bombing Mission!
« on: 2012-09-30 22:26:27 »
That could be a limitation from the beginning of PSX dev cycle or the PSY-Q libraries.When I started playing FF VII I wondered always about the only shaded models because some other games and
FF IX had nice looking texures on every model.
It's unlikely it was the PsyQ libraries as FF7 barely used them. FF8 and FF9 did rely more heavily on the PsyQ libraries and you can tell because it's more easier to discern data inside them despite the packaging craziness they used.

Cyb

71
I don't think I'll retouch this part. You see, the clothes are "at rest" after a dynamic cloth simulation where I let them fall on the wire (collisions with the wire and self-collisions were modelled). I picked the last frame of this simulation because it corresponds to a "at rest" position (earlier frames were more wavy) - and I deleted these unused earlier frames. I believe the air should remain very stagnant in a place like this, thus there is no "real" reason for the clothes to be in motion. For references, I recommend watching clothes hanging on a drying rack    :evil:
Hmmm Point well taken plus the total gist of the image is complete.

Anyhow good enough as I said!

Cyb

72
The cloths on the wire are a bit stiff.
Add some waves into it.
Ahh to be precise they look FLAT is what I think you ment.

Latest update on the "This guy are sick" field screen...

For comparison, here is the original...



Lots of small details added (click for the high-res) - corrugated metal made with mesh instead of bumpmap, grid, nails, screws, dirt, texture and mapping revisions... I also spent some time on the lights and tried a couple of things with Blender's options for Mist - I don't think I can do much better than this. Even though the scene may seem somewhat brightly lit, I would like to point out that my render has a colour scheme which is actually slightly darker than the original.
I think at this point the only additions I would consider would be about making more dirt textures.
Perhaps a suggestion on how to 'wave' the towels, is to bend them first (sinusoidal) then redrape them. That would be my suggestion. My guess is the wave the person was refering to is the unjulation one sees in towels drapped with a slight stretch at the ends and not in the section in contact with the rope.

Cyb

73
Done!I think all the fields of the Bombing mission are already being taken care of. Maybe it would be good if someone can put a clear update about what remains to be done for this part (battle models of enemies?).
I looked at the shelf and thought "how Japanese he has manga books there" LOL.

Erstwhile, I'm glad you were able to persevere much of the 'trouble' with doing scenes is getting over "gee when is this thing done."

I believe the word is "good enough" I'm not sure what 'good enough' is but if you are satisfied it's good enough :D

Cyb

74
Team Avalanche / Re: Midgar Remake
« on: 2012-09-24 21:25:10 »
@Cyberman - Most oblivion stuff is rarely done procedurally, at least not that I know of. If you are on about terrain placement via a heightmap, yes. But alot of the objects like trees, boulder etc are statically placed. There is runtime foliage alright, but that is just generated on top of the terrain.

For the Mako Dawn project we used the Fo3 engine, because we were fimiliar with the toolset and it had already transitioned a few times previous. Tempus'  revival of the project was unexpected;I thought it was going to remain in hibernation for longer. I am currently work on updating the format exporter for newer Blender versions, just in case I decide to restart the project myself, but I will probably move it to the Creation Engine.
I refered to NWN's Aurora toolset for doing that. It also is dependent on the target engine it ends in. I remember a 64x64 city scape was REALLY slow in NWN on my 192M machine circuit 2002 (LOL).

I'll try and keep this short. It's a standard set of algorythms. However it's not easy too use. PCB place and route is very similar. These are often used to place objects on 2 sides of a surface and sometimes on top of each other. In addition you have fixed placements. The big problem is the network that connects things (net list). For something like Midgaar that would be roads rails and walk ways. There are rules for that. The top of the Pizza is easier because it is a planned area. The slums are more difficult because they would be formed from the terrain they are on.

The aspects that have to be considered are: standardized top plate dwellings (not likely too have housing but condo style stuff), businesses etc. Along with transportation car, bus, and walkways. The rails are already fixed as far as I can tell (they handle most of the transport between upper and lower midgaar.
The bottom plate stuff is just a few sectors I believe 7 6 5 I don't remember where wall market is but 5 is where Areth house is right?

So what I am getting at is each 'area' to be generated needs it's own 'scale' standards (IE poles doors dogs cats spacing of housing etc). The pizza is planned (so it will be all standardized) the beneath sections shouldn't be too bad really either since they are kind of predefined.

Anyhow thats how the '3d brush' systems used in the Aurora Dev system in NWN worked. Creating new brush sets so to speak (see sim city scape suppled for example) requires a bit of knowledge, of what the end tool is. So simply put if anyone wanted to use said system it has to be planned. That requires coordination etc.

Hard to do on the internet I've noticed :D

Cyb

75
Team Avalanche / Re: Midgar Remake
« on: 2012-09-23 15:40:14 »
If anyone remembers NWN's Aurora engine they had a very nice system for generating 'brushes' of city that you could add 'things' too. You will notice many games use 'fabricated' or built dwellings that the developer themselves construct. This is very labor intensive and in contemplation a bit of a waste.

There are ways around this. If you are familiar with a game called nethack it generates random levels for more than half the game. With specific features included for some levels. These features are STILL randomly placed. There are fixed levels etc.

What's my point? It's all a matter of perspective. I suggest using the computer for doing DULL boring stuff and you add things where it's needed. You don't need to create an enite world by hand. You do need to shape it. A lot of terrain generators have been used for moding games like oblivion. Without the use of a team of 200. Midgaar is huge city, so does it make sense to create EVERY street corner in it? As far as I can tell NO. How many dwellings are going to be similiar? (lots) There are going to be commonalities of archetecture with unique buildings thrown in.  Simply put do the statistics.

You have a city of say 5 - 15 million (midgaar) lets say 68% live below the plates and the 32% above. The above side is likely where most people work. The pizza plate design makes things sort of easier. However it is likely streets are ring structured (concentric rings). How big is each section? Just go through the scale etc.

Midgaar has already defined areas (sector 7 and 8 wall market) etc. Those can't be changed the rest is just noise (although you might want to look at Dirge of Cerberus) so the noise is what you are talking about. I would distribute housing toward the edge industrial then business as to grew toward the center. Business areas would be high class places to live and or work, mixed with food and shopping districts as well as military posts and government offices. It all has to fit in the center.

It doesn't matter 'what order' and you don't need to individually place each dwelling. I suggest brushing them in (as you aren't making this for walking in for now).

If you want it to be fleshed out, that adds a bit more complexity. Anyone use Farcry 2? It has an interesting engine for doing much the same things you are talking about. Tools exist tools can be created. If you want to peice together a large city I would suggest looking into standardizing dwellings sets street patterns etc. Pick and choose areas that need to be custom laid out (IE parts of sector 5 and 7 center of midgaar etc). Then use some of blenders features to brush in the rest (it will still be 3d). Granted it's a bit of work. However it will take you roughly 10 times the number of hours to create an entire city than creating a few choice sections and using the content you created those choice sections with over for the rest of the city in a 3d brush.

I've made entire cities using this technique using game modding software and tweaked the rest to make important areas.

It would be impractical to do otherwise. Of course this requires some programming skill, some knowledge of blender etc. I would estimate it would be about 3 months before you could start painting sections of the city. It also requires some very specific decisions and adhering to a standard format.

I don't know how blender handles thousands of similar objects. However that is the point at which you will be. You have silly details as in plan XY goes here (repeat 10000 times) this is why using automated generation tools that are parametric is actually a easier route in the end. Even if it is harder to handle to start with.

Something to consider in any case.

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