Author Topic: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?  (Read 17618 times)

Valnus

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Re: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?
« Reply #25 on: 2010-08-23 02:58:19 »
Seeing how both Vincent and RedXIII were experiment subjects for Hojo, they were probably exposed to some amount of mako, so they both would probably work as mages.

As a wolf monster test subject, I think RedXIII should be a high Str/Mag, low Def/MDef character.

For Vincent, as relieved in Dirge of Cerberus, he was Hojo's failed experiment, who was saved by Lucrecia by giving him Chaos cells, so I'm thinking low HP, med-low Str, high Mag and Dex, and some built in status immunities.

Shankifer

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Re: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?
« Reply #26 on: 2010-08-23 03:08:46 »
For Vincent, as relieved in Dirge of Cerberus, he was Hojo's failed experiment, who was saved by Lucrecia by giving him Chaos cells, so I'm thinking low HP, med-low Str, high Mag and Dex, and some built in status immunities.

I would also say that his Chaos forms should be handled with care, if using Valnus' idea, Making them a kind of polor opposite would probably work well, that way he can tear through regular opponents, but opponents with magical attack should be able to clear Chaos quickly, a sense of the magic energy kind of depleting the Chaos energy.

Also, I wasn't a big user of vincent during playthrough... rarely ever actually, Cloud/Barett/Red was usually my setup, but does Vincent's Limit kill Vincent if it dies, or does it just turn back into Vincent? Either way its something to think about while setting up the HP for the limits.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?
« Reply #27 on: 2010-08-23 03:12:32 »
And without the armor, where does his materia go? In his "comb"?

Well, yeah.  If he can't equip any armor ingame, then obviously, there are no materia slots in his armor for him to utilize.  But he still has his weapons, which have materia slots for him to make use of.

Removing Red XIII's ability to equip armor will seriously limit him late in the game no matter how high his stats are.  Unlike the other characters, he'll never be able to have any elemental resistances or status immunities without the use of Resist or Shield.  I don't agree with removing his ability to equip armor, but if you do, it only makes sense to make his stat growths super uber.

What I would recommend is perhaps changing one or two pieces of armor so that they are exclusive to Red XIII.  He can have a basic piece of armor that he comes equipped with, and perhaps a better piece of armor that he can acquire later (maybe as a drop from Lifeform Hojo-N, who only drops a measly Power Source by default).

Letting him wear certain pieces of armour is something that I've considered. In fact, it might be necessary to do things that way; the game doesn't seem to like me making him start without any armour.

I'm considering just making him an extremely strong all-rounder to make up for an inability to equip armour. Although I'm sure that giving characters status and elemental immunities is fairly straightforward, I'm not too sure whether I want to go that way. Hmmm, would it be possible to give characters status immunities if they are at a certain level? Some AI script that checks whether they are at or above a certain level and gives immunity to, say, sudden death, when this is true?

Also, I wasn't a big user of vincent during playthrough... rarely ever actually, Cloud/Barett/Red was usually my setup, but does Vincent's Limit kill Vincent if it dies, or does it just turn back into Vincent? Either way its something to think about while setting up the HP for the limits.

He dies when his limit form dies. This is one of the (many) reasons why I really hate Vincent's limit breaks.

Timu Sumisu

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Re: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?
« Reply #28 on: 2010-08-23 05:18:14 »
for red,

-low physical def (despite equiping armor, wtv - he's a dog thing... yer hitting his hide)
-fire affinity (his bloody tail is on fire, he should have some kind of resistance etc to fire)
-fast... (he's a doggy thing... doggies are fast... i cant catch them)
-This is a bit off the wall, but i always stuck red as a blue mage, given you get the enemy skill when he is recruited, and being somewhat beastlike, i always thought of him as having an affinity to learning enemy skills. (this is long before kimari pulled it off). I dont beleive yer locking off materia, so perhaps making some way of making enemy skills more effective with red, or easier to learn (dunno how ?.?)

as to vinnie,

i like the polar opposite idea with the limit breaks. would it be possible to make them controllable? with a revert command?
going with that, i'd model vincent as being fragile but accurate/deadly, and his limits big, high hp, tough and wrecking balls :P

lastly cait sith, being a big toy, a tank like character seems appropriate. a higher manipulate rate seems appropriate to his character. and given he has the equiv. of a gambler job, perhaps high luck/crit chance? (limits go up an extra boost when he crits?)

I don't know how viable some of these ideas are, but tis my 2 gil.

Shankifer

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Re: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?
« Reply #29 on: 2010-08-23 05:35:58 »
I dont beleive yer locking off materia, so perhaps making some way of making enemy skills more effective with red, or easier to learn (dunno how ?.?)

I believe it was mentioned about really limiting Red's use of armor/materia. soooo....
Would it be possible to give him Enemy skill as an attack or something? you could then eliminate the need for the materia by increasing the rate of success with the attack and you wouldnt have to make it for Red only, since the materia would be obsolete.

I have no idea if this is possible or not, but I thought it would be very interesting to experiment. :D

Bosola

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Re: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?
« Reply #30 on: 2010-08-23 12:19:26 »
And without the armor, where does his materia go? In his "comb"?

Well, yeah.  If he can't equip any armor ingame, then obviously, there are no materia slots in his armor for him to utilize.  But he still has his weapons, which have materia slots for him to make use of.

Removing Red XIII's ability to equip armor will seriously limit him late in the game no matter how high his stats are.  Unlike the other characters, he'll never be able to have any elemental resistances or status immunities without the use of Resist or Shield.  I don't agree with removing his ability to equip armor, but if you do, it only makes sense to make his stat growths super uber.

What I would recommend is perhaps changing one or two pieces of armor so that they are exclusive to Red XIII.  He can have a basic piece of armor that he comes equipped with, and perhaps a better piece of armor that he can acquire later (maybe as a drop from Lifeform Hojo-N, who only drops a measly Power Source by default).

Letting him wear certain pieces of armour is something that I've considered. In fact, it might be necessary to do things that way; the game doesn't seem to like me making him start without any armour.

I'm considering just making him an extremely strong all-rounder to make up for an inability to equip armour. Although I'm sure that giving characters status and elemental immunities is fairly straightforward, I'm not too sure whether I want to go that way. Hmmm, would it be possible to give characters status immunities if they are at a certain level? Some AI script that checks whether they are at or above a certain level and gives immunity to, say, sudden death, when this is true?

Also, I wasn't a big user of vincent during playthrough... rarely ever actually, Cloud/Barett/Red was usually my setup, but does Vincent's Limit kill Vincent if it dies, or does it just turn back into Vincent? Either way its something to think about while setting up the HP for the limits.

He dies when his limit form dies. This is one of the (many) reasons why I really hate Vincent's limit breaks.

You can make the elemental defence contingent on *anything* mentioned in the memory map. If you look at the config / text file in Wallmarket, you can see which data - and associated addresses - you can refer to.

Here's a big list o' addresses you can access from AI:

Code: [Select]
2000|PerformedAction
2008|ActionIndex
2010|GlobalAddress
2018|Unknown(2018)
2020|CameraData
2038|LimitLevel(?)
2050|ActiveMask
2060|Self
2070|TargetMask
2080|AllyMask
2090|Unknown(2090)
20A0|AllOpponentMask
20C0|PlayerBitMask?
20D0|EnemyBitMask?
20E0|AllUnitsMask
2110|UnknownMask
2140|BattleID
4000|Status:Death
4001|Status:NearDeath
4002|Status:Sleep
4003|Status:Poison
4004|Status:Sadness
4005|Status:Fury
4006|Status:Confu
4007|Status:Silence
4008|Status:Haste
4009|Status:Slow
400A|Status:Stop
400B|Status:Frog
400C|Status:Small
400D|Status:SlowNumb
400E|Status:Petrify
400F|Status:Regen
4010|Status:Barrier
4011|Status:MBarrier
4012|Status:Reflect
4013|Status:Dual
4014|Status:Shield
4015|Status:D.Sentence
4016|Status:Manipulate
4017|Status:Berserk
4018|Status:Peerless
4019|Status:Paralysis
401A|Status:Darkness
401B|Status:DualDrain
401C|Status:DeathForce
401D|Status:Resist
401E|Status:"LuckyGirl"
401F|Status:Imprisoned
4020|Flag:Invisible
4021|Flag:SideAttack
4022|Flag:Unknown(00000004)
4023|Flag:Targetable
4024|Flag:MainScriptActive
4025|Flag:Defending
4026|Flag:BackRow
4027|Flag:Facing
4028|Flag:PhysicalImmune
4029|Flag:MagicalImmune
402A|Flag:Unknown(00000400)
402B|Flag:Unreachable
402C|Flag:NoDeathAnimation
402D|Flag:DeadUnit
402E|Flag:Tangible
402F|Flag:Unknown(00008000)
4030|Flag:Unknown(00010000)
4031|Flag:Unknown(00020000)
4032|Flag:Unknown(00040000)
4033|Flag:Unknown(00080000)
4034|Flag:Unknown(00100000)
4035|Flag:Unknown(00200000)
4036|Flag:Unknown(00400000)
4037|Flag:Unknown(00800000)
4038|Flag:Unknown(01000000)
4039|Flag:Unknown(02000000)
403A|Flag:Unknown(04000000)
403B|Flag:Unknown(08000000)
403C|Flag:Unknown(10000000)
403D|Flag:Unknown(20000000)
403E|Flag:Unknown(40000000)
403F|Flag:Unknown(80000000)
4040|Index
4048|Level
4050|ElementalWeakness?
4058|GreatestElementalDamage
4060|FormationNumber
4068|AttackPower
4070|MagicPower
4078|Evade%
4080|IdleAnimID
4088|DamageAnimID
4090|BackDamageMult
4098|SizeScale
40A0|DEX
40A8|LUK
40B0|Unknown(40B0)
40B8|AllyCovered
40C0|AttackMask
40D0|PreviousAttacker
40E0|PreviousPhysAttacker
40F0|PreviousMagAttacker
4100|PhysDefense
4110|MagDefense
4120|EnemyID
4130|AbsorbFire
4131|AbsorbIce
4132|AbsorbLightning
4133|AbsorbEarth
4134|AbsorbPoison
4135|AbsorbGravity
4136|AbsorbWater
4137|AbsorbWind
4138|AbsorbHoly
4139|AbsorbRestorative
413A|AbsorbCut
413B|AbsorbHit
413C|AbsorbPunch
413D|AbsorbShoot
413E|AbsorbShout
413F|AbsorbHidden
4140|MP
4150|MMP
4160|HP
4180|MHP
41A0|Unknown(41A0)
41A8|Unknown(41A8)
41B0|Unknown(41B0)
41B8|Unknown(41B8)
41C0|Unknown(41C0)
41C8|Unknown(41C8)
41D0|Unknown(41D0)
41D8|Unknown(41D8)
41E0|Unknown(41E0)
41E8|Unknown(41E8)
41F0|Unknown(41F0)
41F8|Unknown(41F8)
4200|Unknown(4200)
4208|Unknown(4208)
4210|Unknown(4210)
4218|Unknown(4218)
4220|InitialStatus:Death
4221|InitialStatus:NearDeath
4222|InitialStatus:Sleep
4223|InitialStatus:Poison
4224|InitialStatus:Sadness
4225|InitialStatus:Fury
4226|InitialStatus:Confu
4227|InitialStatus:Silence
4228|InitialStatus:Haste
4229|InitialStatus:Slow
422A|InitialStatus:Stop
422B|InitialStatus:Frog
422C|InitialStatus:Small
422D|InitialStatus:SlowNumb
422E|InitialStatus:Petrify
422F|InitialStatus:Regen
4230|InitialStatus:Barrier
4231|InitialStatus:MBarrier
4232|InitialStatus:Reflect
4233|InitialStatus:Dual
4234|InitialStatus:Shield
4235|InitialStatus:D.Sentence
4236|InitialStatus:Manipulate
4237|InitialStatus:Berserk
4238|InitialStatus:Peerless
4239|InitialStatus:Paralysis
423A|InitialStatus:Darkness
423B|InitialStatus:DualDrain
423C|InitialStatus:DeathForce
423D|InitialStatus:Resist
423E|InitialStatus:"LuckyGirl"
423F|InitialStatus:Imprisoned
4240|Unknown(4240)
4248|Unknown(4248)
4250|Unknown(4250)
4258|Unknown(4258)
4260|Unknown(4260)
4268|MagEvade%
4270|BattleRow
4278|Unknown(4278)
4280|ReturnedGil
4290|ReturnedItem
42A0|NullFire
42A1|NullIce
42A2|NullLightning
42A3|NullEarth
42A4|NullPoison
42A5|NullGravity
42A6|NullWater
42A7|NullWind
42A8|NullHoly
42A9|NullRestorative
42AA|NullCut
42AB|NullHit
42AC|NullPunch
42AD|NullShoot
42AE|NullShout
42AF|NullHidden
42B0|AP
42C0|Gil
42E0|Exp
4300|Unknown(4300)
4308|Unknown(4308)
4310|Unknown(4310)
4318|Unknown(4318)
4320|Unknown(4320)
4328|Unknown(4328)
4330|Unknown(4330)
4338|Unknown(4338)

The last ones are all BattleVars.

drfeelgud88

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Re: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?
« Reply #31 on: 2010-08-25 06:55:46 »
Vincent should be immune to statuses like death, petrification, etc. I mean, he's a powerful vampire-like life form. :D

SeviStatic

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Re: What should I do with Red XIII, Vincent and Cait Sith?
« Reply #32 on: 2010-08-27 16:32:24 »
vincent could also auto-drain like 5% of his attack damage as HP.  and maybe a script that auto-resurrects him with low hp when he dies in limit form