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Final Fantasy Forums => General discussion => Topic started by: frivol on 2011-02-21 23:10:03

Title: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-21 23:10:03
Hi there, since the pre-rendered backgrounds from the PC version of Final Fantasy 7 are of a very low res, I wonder if it is possible to use the pre-rendered backgrounds from the psx version to replace them.

Thnx in advance and sorry my english.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-02-21 23:29:14
I think someone proposed this at least once in the past. I think the consensus was that the increase in quality wouldn't necessarily be worth the work.  But i'm sure an industious modder will do it eventually.

**Also, this is not the write area to post this in.  Should put it in general or tech-discussion
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-21 23:57:11
Oh I see, I had no idea that it could be that hard, I thought it was maybe a common replacement since they are basically the same backgrounds with different resolutions, so maybe the engine in the PC version is limited to only display backgrounds in a certain lower resolution (?)... well I do not know what I´m talking about anyway hehe just thinking, but I would like to know if someone have even gotten any success doing this or at least tried it hard.

P.S.: omg yes my bad! I did not have in mind the area where I was writing this thread. Sorry about that!! Pls moderators move this thread to the right area when you have the chance.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Gemini on 2011-02-22 12:28:24
Both versions share the same identical background images, so a replacement would make absolutely no difference. No idea where you got the idea that the PSX build used a higher resolution for backgrounds.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-22 13:46:52
Well I have played both versions of this game and I can say that there are obvious differences between the resolution of the pre-rendered backgrounds from both versions, also the music and fmvs sux in pc version, and that´s why there are patchs such as the Aali´s one which let you set the game to a higher res among other things, but wait, most ppl know about this isn´t it? you just need to google it and you will find several threads about this topic, also in this forum.

For any reason the PC version res is much lower and since I got both version of the game and I have already the music patch and higher quality fmvs, I´m now interested in that replacement to get higher quality pre-rendered backgrounds aswell, that´s why I really want to know if that is possible cos I have no clue and I do not know where is allocated the background data in pc version, neither how it works.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: NFITC1 on 2011-02-22 13:52:04
Well I have played both versions of this game and I can say that there are obvious differences between the resolution of the pre-rendered backgrounds from both versions...

Because the images are exactly the same, but PSX runs at 320x240 and the PC is typically run at 640x480. That makes the images twice as stretched out and they will look bad. There's not much anyone can do but re-make the backgrounds.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-22 19:25:18
Hmm I see, so nothing to do then... Well thnx anyway for letting me know guys :)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-02-23 13:16:23
using genuine fractals with  few edits on top would give pretty good results.  It can be made to work with the originals to increase the size but the will to do that is not there.

People are instead attempting to remake every background from scratch, can that be done?  I dunno if it will be.  I would much rather someone use fractals on the backgrounds and update the game in 3 months than wait 4 years for a 25% finished abandoned mod.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-23 15:23:56
Feel free to give it a go, I personally was unimpressed with what fractals could do. Either way I only had a trial version of it so I wouldnt be able to do it anyways.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-02-23 16:17:27
Unfortunately, I am bogged down with 2 projects...  retranslation will take a very long time...

If I wasn't doing that I certainly would :P
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: GlitterBerri on 2011-02-23 20:34:15
Your English is practically perfect, no need to apologize. =)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-02-23 21:33:42
So the backgrounds contained in the game's files are all we have to work with?  Just as there is character artwork sketches etc. I wonder if there is a treasure chest somewhere that contains the background drawings/paintings (whatever the medium may be).  Most likely not...but completely remaking the backgrounds from scratch sounds out of the question.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-23 22:02:00
Hehe thnx GlitterBerri I try always my best.

Oh I like what DLPB said, that sounds great. It would be nice to do some image editing on these backgrounds, and if someone want to teach me how to uncompress them I would try to improve them in photoshop (this is part of my work in my normal life) whenever I get some free time, Idk how hard it could be anyways, but I could give it a try.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-24 01:59:56
The program palmer will convert the background to png's of layers.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-24 02:21:33
Wow thnx, I did not know that!!
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-24 02:49:57
Opps :( it seems the link is broken, may someone upload "Palmer" for me pls??
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Timber on 2011-02-24 07:03:43
Here is Palmer 0.4b: http://85.24.185.102/share/palmer-0.4b.zip

I personally was unimpressed with what fractals could do.

Better than the stretching the game does though, surely?
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-02-24 09:02:32
Here is Palmer 0.4b: http://85.24.185.102/share/palmer-0.4b.zip

I personally was unimpressed with what fractals could do.

Better than the stretching the game does though, surely?

Yes miles better.  Better than normal resizing by any software too.  It just needs a bit of an edit with things like light.  Also if you are using fractals or any resizer, you have to make sure to resize the whole picture first and then cut it up.

You cannot cut pieces up and use fractals on them.  It has to be cut later or you will have problems.

I will give it a go soon with the first background.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-24 15:02:44
Here is Palmer 0.4b: http://85.24.185.102/share/palmer-0.4b.zip

Thank you so much for uploading it!!! I´m gonna try this out now!
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-25 19:16:34
It seems there is really nothing to do with backgrounds, or at least not too much for now, or maybe I´m doing something wrong, but I´ve been trying hard to improve the train station background (md1stin) and no luck in game. First thing I noticed was that the resizer plugin from photoshop will cause a not matching background with those ugly green lines. Another problem was that after I import back the edited pngs (without resizing them) in Palmer, and after saving and re packing the flevel lgp file, and ofc after I copy the new png files which palmer creates after saving the field file, in the textures folder (in this case 5 png files, from "md1stin_00_00" to "md1stin_04_00"), all I get in game is an error while loading an unexisting png file called "md1stin_04_12", so idk what else I can do to get my edited backgrounds working in game...  :-\

Did anyone have any success doing this before?
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-25 20:08:24
I have successfully put modified field files back in game. It is not easy to do and requires a lot of work with layer masks.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Aali on 2011-02-26 00:50:08
If by error you mean the info line from show_missing_textures, that is intentional. It shows you that FF7 was trying to use palette 12 first, but the driver defaulted to palette 0 instead. Although field backgrounds have many palettes they never use the same part of any texture with different palettes so having a separate texture for each palette is not necessary.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-26 11:57:02
Oh I see, wait I'm not sure if I understood correctly what you said, so should I rename the textures in this case? Also you said "the driver defaulted to palette 0 instead" I do not understand this part.

P.S.: sorry my newbie questions and also I wanted to thank you for your awesome work!!
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Aali on 2011-02-26 12:12:34
"md1stin_04_12" is refering to palette 12 of the texture "md1stin_04", but since that file doesn't exist the driver loads "md1stin_04_00" in its place. With field backgrounds this is a Good Thing (tm) and you don't have to do anything to rectify the situation.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-02-26 12:39:48
As I said you cannot just resize the image.  You need to use layer masks in PS and you should not use adobe resizer.  If this task is to be done, Genuine Fractals is the only option.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-27 12:27:16
Aali but the background I edited is not being dispayed in the game, that´s one of the reasons why I was not understanding what you said, I even thought your driver was loading the old background instead the edited one (as a way to fix any problem related to backgrounds) althought I understand now that it makes not sense since there is a modified background file in the flevel lgp calling the new edited pngs allocated in the Textures folder, so I do not understand what is happening or what I´m doing wrong. What should I do to get my edited background working in game?

As I said you cannot just resize the image.  You need to use layer masks in PS and you should not use adobe resizer.  If this task is to be done, Genuine Fractals is the only option.

DLPB I tried with onOne Perfect Resizer (previously known by the name "Genuine Fractals"), so this is the same plugin you are talking about (which I have used for the last year and I love it) but I still get a not matching background with green lines, I have tried some different methods such us trying to convert all layers to a single smart object and resize them all together which seems to work,but actually don´t because you can not get back your layers properly resized. But a lot of people here is talking about layer masks and I´m not sure what you guys mean with that, I´m going to google it anyway, but still I will be gratefull if you tell me what you mean exactly with layer masks.

Thnx in advance!!
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Aali on 2011-02-27 17:57:36
You dont need to modify files in flevel.lgp anymore. Field files can be replaced via modpath. Basically whatever show_missing_textures is asking for will be loaded if you provide it.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-02-27 18:15:21
If you are doing what I think you are, it will never work.  If you resize any individual part, they will come out being non uniform to each other.  These differences will be a problem.

The way I would assume to do it (ask sl1982 he has done it) is to resize the whole picture as 1, and THEN cut out the pieces from the completed picture.  That way you have used resize on the WHOLE picture AND THEN cut out the pieces.

I might be talking crap there.  Sl1982, you're on  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-27 19:19:02
Step 1: Remove all traces of flourescent green from the images
Step 2: Figure out where there should be pure black that has been interpreted by palmer as transparent. Fill these in with black
Step 3: Take all the layers from each png and put them in the main background image, making sure to keep them as layers.
Step 4: For each layer you need to select everything that is non transparent and save the selection.
Step 5: Merge all layers
Step 6: Resize with your preferred resizer
Step 7: Load each saved selection and cut them into their own layers
Step 8: Make each layer into its own PNG image and save them according to the original file names
Step 9: Profit
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-02-27 19:22:52
yeah I knew that.   ;D

Basically, it is a strawberries load of work.... and not as easy as simple resize = success.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Aali on 2011-02-27 19:36:34
Step 2: Figure out where there should be pure black that has been interpreted by palmer as transparent. Fill these in with black

When does this happen? Its not supposed to get it wrong.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-27 20:04:42
I cannot remember offhand when it happened, and honestly I am not sure if they even need to be filled in with black or not, but that was just one of the steps that I used. The only reason I thought it may be wrong as the transparent pixels were on the main background image and in the middle of the image itself.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-28 05:53:19
Thank you all very much for taking the time to respond and help me with this. After following most of the steps that sl1982 provided -which I combined with some other tricks-, I get now a perfectly resized and matching background, but I´m still getting the "missing textures" msg, and I´m unable to understand why it is missing (sorry that I´m so noob  :-\). To clarify this, I´ll put here the steps I´m following, with some images that will help me to explain my problem in a better way:

1- In Palmer I open "md1stin" file (train station, the first background we see in the game)

2- I hit on "Export PNG from layer" (still in palmer) and then I get 4 different PNG files (from "md1stin_0_00000000.png" to "md1stin_0_00000516.png")

3- Now the resizing/editing process in photoshop:

(http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/94/44/35/muestr13.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=469&u=11944435)

4- After a successful background resizing, I overwrite the old PNGs with the modified layers I got in Photoshop.

5- In Palmer again (I had not closed the program before), I hit on "Import PNG to layer" so I get my resized background sucessfully Imported.

6. Now, still in Palmer, I hit on "Save Field file", so I get 5 new different PNG files (from "md1stin_00_00.png" to "md1stin_04_00.png") and a field file ("md1stin") which will replace the old one.

7. I copy the field file ("md1stin") inside the folder "flevel" ("...\Final Fantasy VII\direct\flevel") and the new PNG files I got inside the "textures" folder ("...\Final Fantasy VII\textures").

8. Finally I run the game and I get the "missing textures" msg, and I noticed the game is loading the old background because I did put one big red text on it in one of my previous attempts. So I´m lost, I thought I was doing things right, but I guess I´m definitely doing something wrong.

(http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/94/44/35/muestr14.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=470&u=11944435)

Thnx again for all the help you are giving me!  :)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Aali on 2011-02-28 06:01:39
You shouldn't use the field file palmer produces, its not necessary anymore. Just put the PNGs it creates in mods/<your modpath>/field/md1stin/
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-28 07:02:14
YAY!! I finally got it working, Thank you so much Aali!! The problem was the path, I even did not notice that the "missing textures" msg was giving me the path itself, my bad lol!!  :roll:

Thank you again guys, I hope this thread help more ppl.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-02-28 08:05:53
Yeah the app log shows you what is needed :)  if you used fractals, please upload your png so I can see.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-02-28 09:04:27
Sure! This is how it looks when I collapse all layers, but I need to improve it since it was only a simple resizing with some other little editing to test all this.

(1024*1024 - I tried 2046*2046 but Palmer does not let me import it.)
(http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/94/44/35/muestr16.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=472&u=11944435)

(I would like to show an ingame picture when I do a better attempt with this resizing/editing thing, this one doesn´t like me so much).

Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Vgr on 2011-02-28 11:38:53
If this works ingame with the same quality as it is, I think you should start a new thread in Team Avalanche forum since I believe this will be very good.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-28 11:53:32
Avalanche is for recreating graphical effects, not just applying a filter.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Vgr on 2011-02-28 11:55:05
Yeah, but isn't it to tweak FF7 to make it look better? This is from this idea I came...
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-02-28 12:03:46
Yeah, but isn't it to tweak FF7 to make it look better? This is from this idea I came...

Yes, but done a certain way. This is also the reason the FMV restoration is not a part of avalanche.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Vgr on 2011-02-28 12:04:44
Ok :)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-02-28 13:30:35
No I meant upload the files so that I can use them in my game.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-01 02:05:31
This is the best I could do on this first background, it does not look perfect in game but (IMHO) still much better than the older one which was very pixelated.

I´ve mainly used the plugins "Perfect Resize" (Genuine Fractals) and  "NoiseNinja", a very good solution to removing noise and grain from images among other things to improve the background. So this is the final result:

(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/94/44/35/muestr10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=473&u=11944435)

No I meant upload the files so that I can use them in my game.  :mrgreen:

Oh sure here they are DLPB:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=U0HKV70M
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Timber on 2011-03-01 03:45:23
This is the best I could do on this first background, it does not look perfect in game but (IMHO) still much better than the older one which was very pixelated.
I´ve mainly used the plugins "Perfect Resize" (Genuine Fractals) and  "NoiseNinja", a very good solution to removing noise and grain from images among other things to improve the background. So this is the final result:

Your previous pic looked MUCH better than that one.
Personally I think just sticking to resizing will have the best results, any noise filters and such are just going to reduce the detail too much.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Roxas on 2011-03-01 05:34:10
Hm, gave it a try in-game:

Original:

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3374/ff72011030101271388.th.png) (http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3374/ff72011030101271388.png)

frivol's resize:

(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3431/ff72011030101274631.th.png) (http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3431/ff72011030101274631.png)

Hope you don't mind my testing them, frivol. :)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Covarr on 2011-03-01 08:45:06
This is the best I could do on this first background, it does not look perfect in game but (IMHO) still much better than the older one which was very pixelated.
I´ve mainly used the plugins "Perfect Resize" (Genuine Fractals) and  "NoiseNinja", a very good solution to removing noise and grain from images among other things to improve the background. So this is the final result:

Your previous pic looked MUCH better than that one.
Personally I think just sticking to resizing will have the best results, any noise filters and such are just going to reduce the detail too much.
I agree. The first one you posted looked nice and sharp, but still dirty, gritty, and detailed. Absolutely perfect for Midgar. The second one looks far too clean, and fake.

Sometimes, less is more. In this case, less noise removal is more detail kept.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-01 09:11:33
The first one is miles better.  Don't bother with filters.  Stick with fractals resize + fractals sharpener and sometimes manually edit things that look bad like light.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-01 14:45:52
Yeah guys I know the first one looks more realistic and the second one is too clean so it looks fake, but in game the first one looks terrible, even worse than the original pixelated one. The thing is that working on this background is not that easy since this background looks much closer in game and the sharpen effect looks very ugly when you zoom in the image that much. So I guess I´ll just set the fractals sharpener off and see how it looks in game otherwise it will looks terrible (i already tried it).

I´ll try that later when I get home from work, and I will upload it so you guys can choose between both versions.

Hm, gave it a try in-game:

I cant see the pics :(

Hope you don't mind my testing them, frivol. :)

No problem at all!  :D

Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-01 15:02:53
It doesnt look worse to me, it is prob due to your resolution.  Upload the files of the old one you did and I will see what it looks like to me :)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Roxas on 2011-03-02 00:23:05
I cant see the pics :(

Hm, maybe imageshack.us was down when you tried to load? Well, since I can't seem to find a way to register with the host you're using, I'll try..... *googles*.... imgur.

Original:
http://i.imgur.com/JGjwp.png

frivol's resize:
http://i.imgur.com/jhPxF.jpg
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-02 23:50:04
Hm, maybe imageshack.us was down when you tried to load? Well, since I can't seem to find a way to register with the host you're using, I'll try..... *googles*.... imgur.

Thank you Roxas I can see the pics now!! Yea definitely the one I edited looks too artificial.

Hi guys, sorry for the wait, I had a lot of work!  :cry: Well after a lot of attemps to do a good editing on the first background, I think the best choice is to use the original one (at least in this case), since this background looks much closer in game and it does not look too good, maybe if I do some minor editing on the original backaground (without resize) I can get a better result, but idk, I´m gonna try that now.

Here the old  background files anyway (with fractal resize and fractals sharpener only)

(pls tell me guys if it looks good for you cos I do not like it a bit tbh :D)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VPJ0IMGC (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=VPJ0IMGC)

Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-03 00:41:42
Frivol, not sure what drugs you are taking but that fractal one is perfect.  Aside from graphical issues that kranmer just showed me, like when you try to go into train theres a line there.

But its a massive improvement.  Use that one on all the backgrounds.  If it looks a tad crappy like light does (such as in shin ra building), edit it a little.

I am afraid hoping for anything better is futile.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-03 02:38:16
I recently came across a program that uses a Super resolution algorithm for resizing and whatnot. Looked promising, but unfortunately did not work as it reads EXIF data on the camera used to do some calculations. Perhaps if we could do a little copy paste of EXIF from an actual image it may work, not sure. Cannot remember the program off hand.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-03 20:32:36
Frivol, not sure what drugs you are taking but that fractal one is perfect.  Aside from graphical issues that kranmer just showed me, like when you try to go into train theres a line there.

Haha well yea, maybe I'm a little paranoid, I guess I was expecting a better result but yea it is not that terrible after all, also I think the other backgrounds will look much better after some editing and resizing work on them.

Iwill keep you posted on the progress!
Title: .
Post by: Science Is Bigoted on 2011-03-03 22:01:56
.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-04 00:07:20
I´m using photoshop cs3 with plugins: Perfect Resize and Noise Ninja.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-04 06:24:16
Well this is what ive got, some tweaking might be doable.

(http://img816.imageshack.us/img816/9833/md1stinredone.jpg) (http://img816.imageshack.us/i/md1stinredone.jpg/)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-03-04 07:17:21
@sl That is the best so far by lightyears.  It looks ferning spectacular.  Can you post an in-game image?
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Timber on 2011-03-04 08:14:38
Looks pretty good sl :D
I think we need to have a thread showing a whole variety of resizing methods for easy comparison.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-04 15:40:55
I cant test this as my laptop has no working audio device, so i present this for someone to test for me.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NBOHHR67
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-04 15:49:26
So do I timber, I will supply mine soon enough.  Sl's is impressive.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Covarr on 2011-03-04 16:49:31
SL, whatever edge enhancement you have used has introduced noticeable ringing artifacts throughout the image:

(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/931/ringing.jpg)
(make sure to view fullsize)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-04 17:39:54
Here is my attempt purely in Perfect Resize.

more sharp
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6071/50509051.png 

softer
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2738/94575597.png

Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-04 20:23:23
I can´t see any pic!!  :'( :'( :'( May any of you upload the files so I can see them in game?
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-05 02:41:19
Uh, I already did.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-05 15:30:03
True sorry! Did not see the link
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-05 23:43:36
I just scaled the full picture here with same filter and resize as before, slightly less sharpening:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2155/98884374.png

To be quite honest I don't see how it can get much better than that.  It is true to the original but sharper.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-06 00:30:47
I am still not sold on the fractals/perfect resize. I see too much blotchyness (if that is a word). I am still going to work on a few things to see what can be done.

edit: Round 2

(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/1685/md1stinfractalsupsized.jpg) (http://img96.imageshack.us/i/md1stinfractalsupsized.jpg/)

I really think this one has potential.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-06 09:44:32
Not much different to one of my others back there, but yes, I do think perfect resize is the way and it does not get much better than that...
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-06 12:30:57
using genuine fractals with  few edits on top would give pretty good results.  It can be made to work with the originals to increase the size but the will to do that is not there.

People are instead attempting to remake every background from scratch, can that be done?  I dunno if it will be.  I would much rather someone use fractals on the backgrounds and update the game in 3 months than wait 4 years for a 25% finished abandoned mod.

completely agreed. actually I would love to give this a shot. I am working on some field models but I should be able to do a couple backrounds without too much hassle. Might take a while by myself but I'll work on it consistently. I've worked with fractal resizing a bit in the past. I already have photoshop but what's the best program for genuine fractal resizing? Would it be this one you've all been talking about or is there perhaps one I could purchase that would be better? I'll do some research on it and if I find something that works I'll post some pics. Also have any of you before heard of liquid resizing technique, from what I understand its fairly new but basically it is to resize an image to a different aspect ratio without causing distortion or stretching, so if you could combine liquid resize first and then genuine fractals and some touch ups. You could have hd resolutions textures with minimal distortion. Won't be perfect but I'll give it a shot.

*edit* Okay so I guess the developers of this new technique called seam carving/seam removal were working on a program called Liquid Resize to implement this new resizing technique and the program was recently purchased by the same company that makes Perfect Resize, there is no beta or anything like that yet but it sounds very promising. Could have some amazing results when it is released. However I was able to find a GIMP plugin that supposedly uses the seam carving algorithm, so I'll be giving that a try when i have some time. Probably won't be as great as what OnOne Software is working on but its definately a good start. Here's hoping!
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-06 15:55:36
Not much different to one of my others back there, but yes, I do think perfect resize is the way and it does not get much better than that...

I used perfect resize and SizefixerXL
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-06 16:55:25
So i just tried an old beta of liquid resize, I dont think its really an option.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-06 17:43:20
Photoshop - perfect resize with one of the sharp filters (now has unsharp mask)

That is our best bet.  I can't see any real problem with it, I know sl1982 has a problem with it but I just don't see it.  As far as I can see the one I uploaded recently was a fair reflection of the original and was pretty good.  I don't see it getting much better at all and all uploads from fractals with sharpen have yielded v. similar results.

Can't expect miracles here people, you can't get something for nothing, even though perfect resize tries.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-06 18:26:09
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/1766/md11j.jpg)

(http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/7909/md12.jpg)

(http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5598/nmkin1.jpg)

(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2136/nrthmk.jpg)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Bosola on 2011-03-06 19:45:21
Purty.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Vgr on 2011-03-06 23:59:19
Wow sl, this is pretty good. I will use it once there is a release :D

P.S.: Aren't they the ones of the Bombing Mission project?...
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 00:06:15
They are, but if I do release these they will not be part of Avalanche as I dont believe they meet the quality criteria.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2011-03-07 01:42:39
Yeah, some of the edges (primarily on text) do look a little jaggy and it's a bit grainy too.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 01:44:27
Yup, but this is as good as it will get without remaking like avalanche (or well SpooX) is doing.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2011-03-07 01:58:44
Still a pretty good job though.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 02:21:12
Still a pretty good job though.

It definitely has a certain artistic style to it.

edit: So i finally got around to testing in game and these images will not do for anything other then a 640x480 res. Will look into a 4x upscale.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 07:43:33
I've figure out an easy and effective way of doing these to simplify the workload. Here's a little tutorial to resize the image while retaining the original color and detail as close as possible to the original image (as far as I know). Also I resized to 2048x2048 instead of 1024x1024 for high res monitor support. I plan on making this a project soon which is why I am writing this tutorial. I will go more in depth when I make the project page but just in case you all want to start helping me now I'm gonna explain what I did. I'll show you what I came out with before I explain. This is not perfect and its not going to get perfect, but its a huge improvement, so I made a personal decision to retain the original style as much as possible and minimize editing.

(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7112/24128130.png)

and here is an in game screen

(http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6898/2011030700001.jpg)
running at 1440x900

these images probably aren't the best to see the full detail so here is a download link to see it in full resolution
http://www.mediafire.com/?fc5q964zyn9yrwn

I really liked how this turned out. I didn't really want to mess with the images more than I had to (just my preference) so this method is a very minimalistic but it makes it easy and practical. I did a lot of experimenting before I decided on this simple method. I am using Photoshop CS5 and Perfect Resize 7.0.1. This assumes you know what your doing with Palmer already.

So first you want to extract your png using Palmer open them up in photoshop. I open them all at the same time and put them all into the same picture. To do this easily I just go one image at a time select all (ctrl+a) then copy (ctrl+c) and then Paste in Place (shift+ctrl+v) into the top image. Its important to use past in place and not just paste so that you don't have to fiddle with moving the layers around. Once you get all your layers in order you'll want to merge layers, be sure to merge and not flatten as flatten will loose transparency.

Okay now here's what I did in Perfect resize. I set the width and length to 2048 and I set the amount, threshold and smoothness to their lowest possible values (this is because after experimenting with several values it seem these features were not meant to work with such old images and cause heavier distortion which means more editing later, which I wanted to avoid). Also I didn't use any sharpening either for the same reason.

Now your almost done. I tried a lot of different stuff here to try and minimize the "blotchiness" without changing all kinds of things. After hours and hours of experimenting (I even tried cel shading like effects) I decided on one very simple yet powerful method. All I did was apply a very light gaussian blur effect to the image with a 1.0 pixel radius. I decided on 1.0 pixels after even more experimenting and decided this effectively decreased undesirable blotchiness without bluring everything to hell. Save and your done with the editing part.

Hope this is useful, like I said I am going to be making this an official project very soon once I get a few more of these completed for a sample release (probably the first bombing mission) and I need all the help I can get. Now feel free to use any editing and resizing methods you want. this is just what I prefer to maintain the original feel as close as possible.

latest version of Palmer
http://85.24.185.102/share/palmer-0.4b.zip
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-07 08:52:32
OMG I loved how it looks in game yarLson, this is the look that I was looking for!! it is perfect for me, but... :( there is a big problem*, since you did not cut the background into the different pieces that compose the original background, I can´t "see trhough" the metal bars when you go behind the train cars (or whatever is the name,  :-\ <-not native speaker), but I will definitely follow your tips the next time I go to edit a background cos IMHO this is the best background I,ve seen so far in game. I am grateful that someone is serious about starting a project to edite/resize the old backgrounds, because although I wanted to do so, I have not much free time to do it, however you can count on me to help as I can.

On the other hand, since it does not require much time to edit, I'm starting to resize the textures of the battle arenas, and I will also (probably) going to add little details on some of these soon.

*maybe I missed the part where you said that it is just a background to test and it was deliberate, in that case sorry and very nice work :P (it is too late here to read again  ;D)

NOTE: BTW, After some attemps with more complex backgrounds I have come to the conclusion that we won´t be able to edit all backgrounds, but maybe I´m wrong (I hope so), an example, the Shin Ra lobby, I challenge you guys to successfully edit this background  :evil:, Honestly I was unable to do so, mainly because I could not figure out how to get some "see through" parts properly working. The name of this background is "blin1".

Once again, awesome work yarLson I LOVE it, keep it up!!

Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 09:52:27
yeah I am aware of the layering issue. This isn't all finished up as far as the layers are concerned, sorry I didn't mention that. I am actually working on cutting the layers right now, but this was just meant as an example of my method and its effectiveness.

After racking my brain for several hours, I've found a really useful way of cutting out layers EXTREMELY EASILY and EXACTLY. I will post more on this soon but first I am going to test it some more.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 14:37:50
Yeah that doesnt look half bad with the gaussian blur. I was toying with this last night and could not come up with anything that looked decent at 2048. As for the cutting into layers there is a way with photoshop that makes it super easy, but i cant remember offhand what it is.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 14:57:08
well i could use a hand with the layer cutting to start off with. I can't get it to work correctly I keep getting black edges or artifacts even though I am cutting from an image that was resized as a single layer. if you could think of another method that would be great cuz mine apparently was a fail. Dont know why I am getting the black edge to make matters worse. In photoshop Its looks perfect but when I load it in the game I get these weird black edges. Since the output files that palmer makes are a jumbled mess I can't really see where the problem is, and palmer itself, as buggy and featureless as it is, is not much of a help either so unless you've got a much better way to do this I am stuck. Once I got this all figured out I am basically planning on starting off by doing the bombing mission in complete as a demo, including battle scene image resizes. and pretty much every image that can be resized.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 15:03:57
Upload them and send me a link.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 15:19:34
okay here are the png layers
http://www.mediafire.com/?acfud0kc5fyjx7x

and here are the files for use in game
http://www.mediafire.com/?kdxra5a2qflkeuu

I really appreciate the help. I am anxious to get started but this layer thing is holding me back.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 16:04:24
I need the file before it is cut up.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 16:17:47
no problem just give me one second to remake it. and will edit this post with a link

and here you are sir
http://www.mediafire.com/?fc5q964zyn9yrwn
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 16:39:25
I cannot download it like that for some reason. Maybe rar it up first.

edit: nevermind, i got it.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 17:03:55
well thats strange the download works for me?
in any case here is the .rar you requested
http://www.mediafire.com/?burvtyouzyfl896
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 17:36:26
http://www.mediafire.com/?nbzfcj4v149a9rt
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 17:43:03
hey man thanks alot. great work its perfect. Any chance I could get a quick explanation of how you cut up the textures so I can continue onward?
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 17:49:51
There is a function in photoshop that is called create clipping layer. Anyways I will probably start doing some of these myself, following your instructions.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 17:56:29
hey thanks I will look it to it. I should be able to figure it out. I'm not exactly a noob to photoshop but I've never used it for something like this so I was completely stumped. Hey we should probably sanction off different maps between us two, so that we don't end up doing the same images.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 18:38:43
I am going to start at the end of the field files if you wish to start at the beginning.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 18:48:15
sounds like a plan. Alphabetical I assume. Also a question about the clipping layer, i know how to make them but aren't they only use-able for a file with multiple layers? How then did you use it on the picture I sent you with only a single layer? Also a better question may be how were you able to make a perfect selection for each layer, I've tried a bunch of different methods for making the selection but each one results in the black border somewhere or another, I assume it has something to do with the clipping layer but I'm just not sure. Thanks a lot for everything you've been a great help.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 18:59:58
1. Open up one of the original files.
2. Resize to 4x the original. Make sure to use nearest neighbour, not bicubic.
3. Copy the layer into your redone image.
4. Use clipping layer on the redone layer, not the layer you copied in.
5. Save image.
6. Ctrl Alt Z a few times to go back to where you were.
7. Repeat

edit: what were your settings in perfect resize for sharpening?

edit 2: I think the film grain setting in perfect resize looks nice.

Grain:
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2281/zz82grain.jpg)

Your Method:
(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/1315/zz82none.jpg)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 19:18:49
I didn't use any sharpening. After a lot of experimenting in perfect resize I ended up getting the best results by turning everything as low as it can go and by turning sharpening completely off. This is probably because the newness of the plugin and the age of these images. If you are able to come up some good values I'll be happy to try them out but for now I feel better not using it at all. By the way worked like a charm thanks a ton. I am starting on A right now.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-07 20:25:52
Yea I have come to the same conclusion that you yarLson, sharpenning is not a good idea when you are working with ff7 backgrounds. I have to try what sl1982 said before, but maybe this other "method" will be useful for you in any other chance. Another way to skip the black lines is (I guess it is less accurate than the sl1982´s method) by duplicating the layers and then merging them again to the one you duplicated, this overlapping will cause the black lines are filled, but this is only another trick, however, again, I´m pretty sure the sl1982´s method will be much useful and pro for this cause, in fact, I´m gonna try it out right now, I ´have not released more edited backgrouds since the first attemp was a fail, but after my latest attemps I got almost the same results that you got (although yours look even better), and I wanted not release any other background till I get something much better, but yours is perfect for me so I guess I will wait for your releases and sl1982´s instead :D.



Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 20:55:23
well feel free to help us. the more people we get on it the faster it will be completed. and yeah I can attest if you combine both of our methods you should do just fine with just about any texture. Of course some images have different resolutions. The stage for the gold saucer for example Palmer wouldnt let me do a 4X resample because the width was already quite huge, however I was able to do a 3X resample. Just do the highest resize that Palmer will allow for your image without breaking the original aspect ratio and you should do fine. Combined with both our techniques you should have all the knowledge you need to help us. I would really appreciate it. Ideally I want to get as many people as possible on this project. As soon as we have maybe 8%-15% done we should post a project thread and request help from the entire forum but for now its only a few of us so the extra hand would make a big difference.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 21:04:09
I have used sharpening on all backgrounds I have done. I think it helps. If we cannot come to some sort of consensus I think I will release mine seperately as I do not want there to be large differences between backgrounds.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Aali on 2011-03-07 21:08:04
What do you mean, Palmer wouldn't let you do a 4x resize? That really shouldn't be a problem. What happens when you try to do it?
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 21:10:09
Used to be a problem with 0.3b. Make sure you use 0.4b.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 21:16:42
well a 4x image resize for this particular image (the astage from gold saucer) would be a resolution 2560x960. Palmer said when i tried to load a png of this size something along the lines of "expected size 1920x960" follow by "import failed" so I changed it to 3x res of 1920x720and it loaded fine. I am using 0.4b. Another problem I have been having with Palmer is that sometimes after it loads a field file it freezes up. Forcing a shut down or cutting the process doesn't help. If it does this once it'll continue to freeze up every time i open a field file until I restart windows. has gotten really annoying especially when I am in the middle of working on an image with all kinds of windows and tabs open.

also I am having a problem getting this same map to load in game through the mod path. I am not getting any sort of error it seems I just don't know the correct path for this one. It came from a file labeled astage_a so I made a folder mods/(modpath)/field/astage_a when that didn't work I tried a_stage. Is there some kind of directory or wiki I can look up that has all the correct mods paths for the field files for your driver Aali?

Also I completely agree about the sharpening, a consensus should be made. Just tell me what settings your generally using for your images and I'll give it a go. If I like the results I will use it. Only reason I stopped using it was because I started to notice some severe distortion in certain areas, and also because it seemed to reduce the need for a heavier blur effect (i only use 1 pixel radius without it), smoothing also seemed to be doing the same thing, however the distortion was only really noticeable on higher settings and not in all photos.. I don't want the images to be inconsistent any more than you do but I also would love the help. Two heads are always better than one and I'm sure we can come to some kind of agreement that the image quality will benefit from.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Aali on 2011-03-07 21:26:02
I have some code lying around waiting for a palmer 0.5b that fixes some crashes, makes it aware of modpath & more blend modes and makes it more stable/useful in general.

The first image it finds when you do the import decides how big of a resize you're getting. It appears that the first image in your import is not 4x4 but rather (less than 4)x4.

If I know 0.4b right, its cutting off the _a from those output files, astage_00_00.png should really be astage_a_00_00.png, for example.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-07 21:29:13
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9994/zz82final.png) (http://img228.imageshack.us/i/zz82final.png/)

Resize in fractals 4x.

Texture Control:
Amount - 1
Threshold - 10
Smoothness - 0

Sharpening:
Unsharp Mask
Amount - 25
Radius - 2
Highlights - 20
Shadows - 20

Post processing with photoshop:
Preserve Pure blacks with color select and copy to seperate layer (Fuzzyness - 40)
Grain Texture:
Intensity - 15
Contrast - 50
Grain Type - Soft

No gaussian blur effect used. I always avoid using blur whenever possible as the loss in detail is not usually worth it. I added a film grain effect to add a bit of noise to the background to give it the impression that there is more detail then there actually is. Plus it adds a nice artistic style to the whole thing.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-07 21:30:50
thanks a bunch I will give that  try for the mod path. A new Palmer would be so great for this project, I can't wait for that. Now I know the first image I imported was a 4x4. all of them are. the original is 640x240 so unless I am doing my math wrong 2560x960 should be exactly 4 times.

Really great work sl1982, you've convinced me, I will try to mess around with those setting and see if I can get something good.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-08 00:57:33
does anyone know where I can find a breakdown of the battle scene textures. By breakdown I mean just a list explaining which textures are what inaccurate example maybe ogaa is for the first battle in midgar or something like that. It would be a big help to the project so I don't have to go through the huge archive every time to find battle scenes individually. right now I am look for the very first battle scene in the game. The one where you fight the two guys right off the train.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2011-03-08 01:20:04
SL can you make the grain/noise grayscale? the color variation really jumps out.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-08 01:58:25
Not now, ive done 5 scenes and im not starting over.

and what do the battle scenes have to do with this project?
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2011-03-08 02:23:15
the whole point is to figure out how to do the batch before batching :P
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-08 02:44:26
ugh well anyway I'm still having major problems with conversion. I wanted to include battle resizes as well although that'll probably have to come later. Just wondering if I could get a list for reference. Anyway I'm doing exactly what your suggested as far as the layering goes and I'm still getting a weird border in certain places. This time its really really thin and white. I don't understand what is causing this I am using nearest neighbor just like you said. And doing everything else exactly as you said. This is really bugging me I could have done 5 or 7 of these by now but I'm on on 2 and a half because I can't get them to convert correctly help would be greatly appreciated. Not too mention my version of Palmer is suffering from massive memory leaks. Used almost a gig of memory just packing png's and the damn thing crashes consistently and I have to restart to retain functionality. Gotta figure out a way to stop this. Also as far as effects and sharpness I think it also depends on the context of the scene. For example I think a lot of the metal surfaces in midgar do really well with just a slight blur that I've been using. Without it looks like they have a weird soap film or something similar. Although the scene I am working on from gold saucer doesn't benefit nearly as much from this technique. And sharpening in my gold saucer image has cause some weird kind of light distortion in game. Overall the editing side is nothing I can't handle, and I am enjoying myself. Its been a lot of trial and error. At least for me nothing that has worked once has worked again (especially when it comes to this layer business) Haha I am determined to do this but today has just not been my day. Overall I am just disappointed at my overall progress so far compared to hours spent. If I don't figure this conversion thing out by tomorrow I am just going to skip it and edit as many images as I can to keep up with the pace I should be making. Not the way I wanted to do it but I can't let it keep me from getting work done at this point. I'm gonna cool off for a little while and then work until sleep. I'll post the images I have before I go to bed.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-08 02:55:46
I have not had any problems thus far, I have done 6, working on 7th right now.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-08 02:59:06
well keep it up i'll try and catch up by tomorrow night, although school might be a problem. haha.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-08 03:01:04
Protip: If you are having a hard time blending, add a layer behind the image that is pure black. The driver will usually treat this as transparent.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-08 04:17:56
oh man what a way to end the day. What you told about black backrounds may be outdated or something. I just spent a strawberries ton of time hand editing, for absolutely nothing because when I put that strawberries in game its all fucked up because of the black. Lol I am not blaming you just though it was ferning hilarious. I'm ferning exhausted, goodnight
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-08 04:42:22
Its not outdated, I have been using it the whole time. Its only really useful for layer effects like lighting.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-08 04:42:27
I feel your pain, I got this table for font sorted an hour ago and then i accidentally shut down ff7 without saving my edits.

 :o
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-08 08:43:21
(http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/11/94/44/35/sample10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=476&u=11944435)
2048*2048 px


Even when I loved the background yarLson edited, I was missing a bit more sharpen on it since there was a notable contrast between the HD character and the little bit blurry background image, and yea I know I said before I do not like how the Perfect Resize sharpener effect looks, but that does not means I do not like the sharpen effect itself, so I combined and used some other methods to make the sharpen effect look much better and natural and I think I got what I was really looking for. I also wanted this time to keep the colors and the general look as close as possible to the original.

This was my last attemp with this background and I personally love how it looks in game, but maybe some ppl prefer a softer background, in that case the one yarLson did will be perfect for you (I can´t see any pic so unfortunelly I can not evaluate sl1982 work :(, except when he upload the files, but by what ppl say, they look pretty good too).

P.D.: I followed most of the tips and steps yarLson and sl1982 said before, and I combined them with new methods to get the sharpest possible background, without losing the quality and the original concept, it still won´t look perfect but I love it and I hope you like it too.

Files: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MQO87YN2 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MQO87YN2)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-08 18:04:36
Seriously, here is my 2 cents.  You have to make sure that these backgrounds look like the old ones.  Sharpen is fine as it enhances the detail, blurring is not a good idea, and I think adding noise is also a bad idea because that will make the backgrounds look phony, even if they look nice as pictures.

It has to be a fractal resize + sharpening method and nothing else, or it will come out looking bastardised.   :)  The above looks fine to me, but be aware that Station map is not true of every picture, have a look at the corel prison and try to use the method there, get it right across a few maps before you begin.

Something like sl1982 had before:

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5598/nmkin1.jpg

Works fine.  Although that looks like it has added a bit of distortion, perhaps just a tad over sharpened.  I don't see what was wrong with my effort either:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2155/98884374.png

The bottom line is, it cannot be too sharp and it cannot be too soft and it cannot look phony.  It has to pass off as a game background that the eye can keep to the background in gameplay.  No good if it stares out at you as fake.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-03-08 18:10:29
Is there gonna be a project thread for this?  Either several for each person working on this, or one for the two...or three?  of you.  I don't have the proper software to help, but I have been watching this closely and think some might benefit from some organization (sl seems to know what hes doing and is making good progress, but idk about the other two.  and if someone else wanted to help it may be difficult for them to get started).  Good luck guys.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-08 18:13:16
I am just offering suggestions on how best to proceed and some examples.  I have my hands full at the moment with several other projects that I want finishing by 2050  :P
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-08 18:20:29
Well i dont know about everyone else but I like the way mine turned out. Sure they may look a bit fake but oh well. I honestly dont have the time to go through and hand tweak everything. Some things work better for some backgrounds. As of right now I have 17 backgrounds done, but some of them cannot be put back into the game until we get a new version of palmer that fixes some issues. Either way I am still going from the end of the list alphabetically, but will probably release my stuff on my own. That way other people can start at the beginnning or elsewhere and there wont be any overlap until we meet in the middle. By that time all the backgrounds should be done so people can pick which they prefer better.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-08 18:25:49
HAve you uploaded some backgrounds sl?  I will give them a go in game and see what I think!  8)
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-08 18:29:18
HAve you uploaded some backgrounds sl?  I will give them a go in game and see what I think!  8)

I have not yet, i will send you a pre-release later. Release will most likely be this week.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-08 21:10:56
well i solved my problem, and it was patience. I went in thinking the conversions would be easy and in the end it caused a ton of headache. Some careful planning and testing of layers BEFORE conversion has solved the big headache for me and I should now be able to make decent progress. I don't really like the sharpener in perfect resize either but I'm still messing around with sharpening in photoshop to find something I like. Thanks everyone for your help. And I am glad to say I am on track. Gonna test around and find a sharpening effect I like before proceeding too far, but that shouldn't take too long. I will be doing the whole game, regardless of whether or not I get help, but without help it could take upwards of 6 months or so, so I hope we can all come together as a team :]

also I just want to thank xLostWingx for the vote of confindence :P

one last thing for now. Frivol I dunno why you are resizing to 2046 but an exact 4 times resize of 512 should be 2048, just a friendly fyi.

*edit*

While I appreciate the input DLPB, any method of sharpening I seem to implement on a noticeable scale seems to add to the so called "blotchiness" and discoloration. I simply don't like it, and the detail it adds seems trivial when compared with the downside. In converse the slight blur is hardly noticeable, and while yes very slightly diminishes the level of detail, seems to fix all of my color issues. To prove this point to myself I zoomed in on a certain section of an image after resizing with fractals so that the pixels were visible, even without applying the sharpening, I notice little stringy sections of discoloration, after applying sharpening these become enhanced and thick, but after applying the 1.0 pixel blur completely eliminated these stringy inconsistencies and with a hardly noticeable diminish in quality.

 To put it simply, in regards to a re-sized image, I feel like a slight blur is a compliment while sharpening is an argument. If the starting size of the resolution were higher than sharpening would be a great tool, but in my own experience it's better to work with what you have than to try and turn charcoal into a diamond. Yes of course it is possible but it requires a lot of time and effort. If we only had to re-size a single image then yes I would be all for it, and I would clean up the discoloration manually if need be. However we have to do 1,000 or more images here and I feel that my method is the best option (for what I have working with) for cleaning these images up.

I realize I will probably come across an image that would do well with some sharpening and I will take some time for each image to decide the best course of action, but in order to get this done it can't be done perfectly. If we try, we might as well start from scratch. I know I can't change anyone's preference nor would I like to, but it seems if nobody agrees with me on the blur issue than there is only one thing for me to do. We will have to make separate projects for now.

However I also feel I should be more helpful than to just have my way and finale. So I decided, I would release my final project in 2 formats. For in game usage edited to the best of my discretion, and another with all layers merged and re-sized with fractals. No blur, no sharpening or editing of any kind will be applied to the later. This will allow the entire portion of the community which doesn't have access to Perfect Resize to make their own decision on what it should look like without the need for expensive software (there are plenty of wonderful freeware image editing tools, GIMP is one example).  of course you will have to cut the layers yourself, and when the time comes i'll try and write a detailed tutorial on this so that as many people as possible can participate. Consider it my way of making this project open source in the future. Of ocurse any one who has access to Perfect re-size can help me with this and it wouldn't take much time at all. But for now I would like to wish you the best of luck with your project sl1982, and with that I will get to work.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: DLPB on 2011-03-08 21:29:19
Resize comes with a % anyway, set to 400%
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-08 22:06:14
Good luck with your project as well, may I suggest that you start at the beginning of the field files still? This will at least allow all the fine folks here the chance to enjoy a whole set of updated files that much quicker.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-08 22:18:55
sure thing, I will be starting with all the files from the first bombing mission up to when they arrive at the slums, so I can have a demo release (its only like 5 or 6 images), but after than I will start from the beginning.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-08 22:23:29
Hmm ok, I am not sure if i am going to be running into any of those scenes, but you are free to do whatever you wish.

edit: Actually, now that I think about it I am not sure if that is the best idea for me to start at the end. Going alphabetical is very difficult to test out as the scenes are all over the damn place (distance and chronologically)

for example: i have done the materia caves, the corel train, the truck in the flashback, chocobo sage house, and something in wutai
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: frivol on 2011-03-08 22:31:54
Frivol I dunno why you are resizing to 2046 but an exact 4 times resize of 512 should be 2048, just a friendly fyi.

Thank you yarLson but I just checked the background and it is definitely 2048*2048. It was my bad anyway cos I wrote 2046*2046, going to edit the post right now.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-09 12:00:27
well if you want to go alphabetically you could use the black chocobo save editor to make it much easier to jump around and save anywhere (just lock the save menu item in the other tab, this will force it to always be available). It's what I've been doing, if you don't want to do that, I could go from the beginning of the game, as far as the layout and you could start at the end. I would start from bombing mission, you would start from final battle. Also I have decided I am only going to release 3 maps as a demo. I have started alphabetically now.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-03-09 15:57:52
I have started going chronologically. When you jump off the train to when you board the elevator in the reactor is done so far.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: MysticCloud on 2011-06-13 05:35:00
Have you guys finished this project ? Your work was looking real good in the previous posts.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: jeffdamann on 2011-06-14 16:22:02
I would really like to know what Felix did here - http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=10251.msg153600#msg153600 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=10251.msg153600#msg153600)

If he would share that knowledge with us, im sure it would be the best method for redoing the field backgrounds.
Title: Re: FF7 PSX pre-rendered backgrounds to replacing the ones of FF7 PC version?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-06-16 18:00:08
Most probably, he did it from scratch. Of course doing them from scratch would be the best method but it would most probably never get completed