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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: BloodShot on 2011-04-09 01:08:35

Title: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: BloodShot on 2011-04-09 01:08:35
So what do you guys think of FF8? I have played up to Balamb before the missiles hit and am currently looking for Cid. So far I like the game a lot. I do have some problems with it though, like while I really like characters like Squall, Laguna, Quistis, Rinoa, and Edea as the villain, I really dislike some of the others like Zell and Irvine. Selphie is alright, with her blow up everything attitude and Seifer, well, I kind of like him but every time i see him I immediately think of Rufus.

Also, the battle system is a bit annoying because I put it to Active, but you still have to wait for casting animations and attacks to complete, unlike in 7 where in Active they no longer affected the time bar, and GFs seem a bit overpowered, every boss in the game so far has been relatively easy for my first playthrough, as opposed to say my second ever 7 playthrough.

Although some of the music isn't as memorable as the older games, overall I really like the score, particularly the overworld theme Blue Fields, the battle and victory themes, and force your way, as well as that song that sounds like an 80s cop show which I don't know the name, but it's used in a similar manner to FF7's hurry.

I love the new large overworld and the use of cars and trains and roads, it feels much bigger and grander in terms of scale than 7. The world is pretty breathtaking.

The FMVs in the game are jaw dropping for the time (I love the intro fight), and there's so many - As are the graphics for a PS1 era game. At times I almost think I'm looking at a PS2 game with the GFs.

So yeah, my main questions here are, what do you guys think about it, like and don't like, and also, does the main story of the game get (hopefully a lot) harder from where I am? Because right now it seems too easy for a first playthrough. And don't say just don't use GFs please.

I used to hate this game as a kid and never played it, but a lot of that hate probably came from me not understanding the junction system, and me being closed-minded and favoring FF7 as a kid over, well, everything. As it stands, I love it so far, aside from some of the problems I have with it.

P.S. - I don't think the Junction system is that bad, I find it rather interesting.

EDIT:
and try to avoid any spoilers please  ;)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Jaitsu on 2011-04-09 01:10:58
this is your first play through it? keep me updated :P i wish to see if you join the "absolutely love it" or the "absolutely wanna slaughter square for daring to create this game" group
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: BloodShot on 2011-04-09 01:12:29
i wish to see if you join the "absolutely love it" or the "absolutely wanna slaughter square for daring to create this game" group

Heh, i used to sort of be in the second group, but that was just bias. Now that I've given it a chance, It's growing on me a lot. I just hope it doesn't turn out to be a piece of crap later on like I once thought it was.

Part of the growth is affecting a lot of me too, today I wore squall's necklace to school, and I started playing squall in dissidia, and I also just replaced the Fanfare and Boss themes from 7 in FF7music with 8's. Probably a bit much  :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-04-09 01:25:10
I am sure someone will jump down my back for saying this, but of the PSX FFs, 8 is my favorite, I really enjoyed the story and Omega Weapon in this game is one of my favorite boss battles ever! The music in it is some of Nobuo Uematsu's best work too.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: StickySock on 2011-04-09 01:43:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1njLpZDfUCQ - Sums it up. I still play it every now and then.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: BloodShot on 2011-04-09 04:02:13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1njLpZDfUCQ - Sums it up. I still play it every now and then.

Haha, I love that guy. I hate the card game, haven't pressed square at all yet :)
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: TinySarabia on 2011-04-09 04:24:31
Only thing I don't like bout 8 is that you can't change everyone elses names. Only Squall and Rinoa. And Angelo.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-04-09 04:27:59
Only thing I don't like bout 8 is that you can't change everyone elses names. Only Squall and Rinoa. And Angelo.

thats an outright lie bro. Almost positive you can name your characters and GFs whatever you want  :evil:
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: TinySarabia on 2011-04-09 04:40:51
thats an outright lie bro. Almost positive you can name your characters and GFs whatever you want  :evil:

riiiiiiight. I forgot the GF part. Other than that, you can't name anyone else besides Squall, Rinoa, and Angelo.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-04-09 05:17:43
after double checking your right about the characters  :|
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-04-09 06:48:40
VIII is definetly good...but it is mind-numbingly easy unless you really suck at junctioning or don't bother to collect any magic or GFs.  If we are just talking about storylines...I'd have to say it ranks at the bottom of PSX FFs. Not saying I dislike the game, just that I have a lot of problems with it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-04-09 06:52:31
VIII is definetly good...but it is mind-numbingly easy unless you really suck at junctioning or don't bother to collect any magic or GFs.
a lot of people tend to fail epically at collecting magic and GF's, it is kinda easy which is why I've been meaning to try that hardcore mod for 8
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-09 09:29:47
I'm one of the few people who forgive FF8 for its storyline. I actually like it. Heck, it's better than FF1's, FF2's, FF3's, FF5's, FF12's and FF13's - and maybe even FF6's IMO.

What I don't like much though, is the junction system. Makes most magics useless, since if you use junctions properly, using the best spells will make your character weaker each time you use a magic. Flawed system is flawed. And since physical attacks are so much stronger than anything else (and the fact that almost no enemy is strong against physical), you don't have a reason to use magics anyway (except Rinoa with Angel Wings, maybe).

Also, spending ten minutes or more drawing magics from enemies... ...Gosh. I know some people say it's not needed thanks to the magic refinement system / the card mod system, but when you meet a new enemy that has great magics, you'd have to be stupid not to. Especially since there are no drawbacks to drawing for long periods of time. And don't get me started on the level up system... ...if you play the game normally without grinding, chances are you'll finish the game before you can draw the most powerful spells from them (they'll still have -ara spells).

So yeah, it's a good game, but not as good as FFIV, VI, VII, IX and X to me.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Jaitsu on 2011-04-09 15:10:02
i really think that FF8 could have benefited from using one of the other games battle systems, like 7 or 3 or even 1.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Vgr on 2011-04-09 15:22:40
The gameplay is very good, no matter what.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Jaitsu on 2011-04-09 15:27:18
The gameplay is very good, no matter what.

lets agree to disagree, i personally just didn't like it at all, from monsters leveling up with me to it being annoying to hit a simple limit break. to each his own i suppose.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Vgr on 2011-04-09 15:29:45
Yeah, that's right.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-09 18:32:58
The gameplay is very good, no matter what.

Great point. Screw my above post : you just convinced me.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-10 02:56:09
VIII was a masterpiece.  So was 7,9,10 and to a lesser extent imho, 6.

All of these games have tons of gameplay and all but 6 have a very good character based story, something that the games after X lack.  I have never enjoyed a final dungeon as much as I have VIII's, it made it enjoyable with clever level design and gameplay (such as finding the monsters, finding omega, finding secret items) rather than what XII did... grind grind grind grind.

VIII is often slated for its story but let's look at it this way, yes time compression wasn't exactly brilliant, but what was going on in the story was.  You have characters that you can care about, and a lead character who is a sociopath learning to love again.  Most people seem to hate squall because "He is an idiot", but that's just the whole point of the story.    The clever causality loop at the end was a nice way to go out I think, and even if you didn't like the story, you cannot deny it had some good characters and development.  Seifer, is among my favourites.

Game play wise, it is well up there with the big 4.  There is tons to do, and it is fun to do it.  Chocobo, cards (definitely the best one imho), drawing summons, junctioning spells.  The game came together on so many levels.  Having cinematic sequences that add to the game (as opposed to XIII) was also a bonus.  Who could forget the garden battle sequences and amazing music by Uematsu?

The game works on nearly all levels.  I think I might play it again one day.   I did finish it 4 times....
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Mendelevium on 2011-04-11 00:32:56
The only problem I see with VIII is the draw system, which works in my opinion, if you don't abuse it. And by abuse it, I mean sit  there and draw 100 fires all at once, you draw as you go. :P. It's just they made the battle system so easy to break, such as leaving Squall dead the whole game.
But, the storyline was pretty magnificent, a tad confusing, but hey, what good story doesn't have plot twists? ;P

Also Laguna just happens to be my all time favorite video game character :P. I also tend to like games with cyber punk themes.
Yeah... That's about it. XD.

Thanks,
Mendel
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Vgr on 2011-04-11 00:40:44
Laguna has the better battle theme ever, that's for sure. I discovered that game long ago and finished it about 20 times now. My last time was the finish of my No-Level Up game. Very easy but boring in the beginning.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DarkFang on 2011-04-11 00:51:49
The only Final Fantasy games I've ever finished from start to finish are I, II, VI, XIII, Tactics, and Mystic Quest. However, I've played all of them and got really far.

Final Fantasy VIII was interesting. I really liked the junction concept. But I disliked how they removed equipment. Sure you can change weapons, but there's only like six. And there's no armor or accessories. The dialogue was WAY better than Final Fantasy VII. You can get to level 100 and have a max quantity of 100 of an item in the game. I thought this was a little inconsistent, but I'm just being a little picky. The world map seems a lot larger than Final Fantasy VII. There are a lot of side quests and optional things to do, which makes the game open. A lot of people hated Triple Triad, but I thought it was awesome! It's much better than any other Final Fantasy minigames, like Blitzball. The game is extremely easy if you draw a bunch of spells and morph a bunch of cards in the beginning of the game.

Overall, Final Fantasy VIII is an excellent game that is usually overlooked. It's definitely in my top 5 Final Fantasy games.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-11 08:15:03
People who disliked triple triad did not use their brain and realise how its more advanced features worked.  It was a mathematical game and a fun one.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-04-11 11:03:10
FF8 was a great game, and I suspect that most of the people who malign it are people who didn't bother to learn how the game worked. The draw/junction system is quite unusual, and if one tries to play it the same way that one played the other FF games, one is in for a frustrating game.

I don't make this claim based on no evidence. Most of the criticisms I've seen about FF that come from fans rather than reviewers imply that drawing magic for hours on end is the only way to play it and it therefore sucks. Apparently, these  people never learnt how to use GF abilities to their advantage; x Mag-RF abilities will go far towards eliminating the need to draw spells. Not that buffing up one's characters is necessary in FF8 anyway; it's like grinding in FF7: completely unnecessary, given the game's difficulty level.

These people probably tried to play MGS the same way that they played Duke Nukem and then complained that the alarms went off too often.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-11 12:54:19
Quote
These people probably tried to play MGS the same way that they played Duke Nukem and then complained that the alarms went off too often.

HAHAHAHAHAHA !  It is so true :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: NFITC1 on 2011-04-11 18:03:12
riiiiiiight. I forgot the GF part. Other than that, you can't name anyone else besides Squall, Rinoa, and Angelo.

Griever would like a word or three.

I've played this game through several times and I've never really liked it. I understand the junction system and the drawing, but most of the time attacks took the form of GFs. Their long animations got real old after a while. I thought it was too easy to get to level 100 too. I wasn't crazy about the junction system either. Cast junctioned magic and your stats go down, draw and they go up. It felt pretty easily abuseable.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-04-11 18:42:15
It was easily abused, the funny part is that it took very little to OP any single character.  Hp Junction + Vit Junction, now you're character will never die and you can spam Renzokuken/Dual.  Str junction, now you kill things with 1 hit.  I liked to play with the system, but the strength of the enemies was just absurbly low.  Why bother Junctioning when a Funguar only has 300 HP?!  The first time through the game I just spammed summons and never really had any problems.  I'd have to say that VIII, while good, could have been much much better.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Bosola on 2011-04-11 19:10:59
I like Final Fantasy VIII, because the junction / enemy level system punishes stupidity with extreme violence.

Like me.

Quote
These people probably tried to play MGS the same way that they played Duke Nukem and then complained that the alarms went off too often.

...This was actually a real criticism of one of the first stealth FPSes, System Shock. That said, I remember being about twelve, and not really understanding why I couldn't kill enemies by punching them to death. I guess I was just so used to the simple conventions of PSOne third-person action games I just couldn't grasp the idea of non-lethal aggression.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-11 22:03:27
Griever would like a word or three.

I've played this game through several times and I've never really liked it. I understand the junction system and the drawing, but most of the time attacks took the form of GFs. Their long animations got real old after a while. I thought it was too easy to get to level 100 too. I wasn't crazy about the junction system either. Cast junctioned magic and your stats go down, draw and they go up. It felt pretty easily abuseable.

All of that is a problem with the implementation and not the system.  if we want to criticise 8 then we have to criticise 7 on the same basis.  Ridiculously easy and not implemented well at all.  The systems themselves are great and if you choose not to abuse their limitations, you will have more fun.

Beating omega weapon properly and collecting all cards and doing all side quests etc, is definitely not easy in 8
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: obesebear on 2011-04-12 01:04:52
That said, I remember being about twelve, and not really understanding why I couldn't kill enemies by punching them to death. I guess I was just so used to the simple conventions of PSOne third-person action games I just couldn't grasp the idea of non-lethal aggression.
This!  Sweet Jesus I thought I was the only one, and have never before admitted to is.  It literally took at least 7-12 tries before I figured out what the hell I was supposed to do.  It could be due, in part, to the fact I was playing it in Toys R Us with no instruction manual, but the point still stands.

/offtopic

I'm not sure why I play FF8 and FF9, I never end up beating them or enjoying them all that much, but they are just good enough to keep drawing me back in for another try. 

/nostalgia goggles
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Prince Lex on 2011-04-12 01:11:58
I very much enjoyed playing through FFVIII when it came out, and I still do with the enhancements offered here. Haven't played in a while though.

I thought it had a great story with some good twists as well as good systems that were really customisable based on how you wanted to play the game. This forum has really enhanced my enjoyment of VII and VIII; I just wish that IX was also released for PC because it's the only one I can't replay in HD without an emulator (ePSXe bugs me). I can't stand looking at PSX era games on my PS3, the upscaling is horrible. If they implemented trophy support I probably wouldn't care though, three very easy Platinums!
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: sutebenu on 2011-04-19 22:27:06
I'm one of the few people who forgive FF8 for its storyline. I actually like it. Heck, it's better than FF1's, FF2's, FF3's, FF5's, FF12's and FF13's - and maybe even FF6's IMO.
Well, in all technicality; Final Fantasy VII's storyline is a near copy-paste of FFVI's.

Ex-member of evil organization (empire) that is trying to take over the world
Member of said org. wants to become a god
main char. works for rebel force
organization fails
World threatened (FFVI's world actually destroyed)
Killing villain saves world (for different reasons, Kefka's corruption and Sephiroth's will)

In fact both villains are only villains because of a mental breakdown; one from discovering that he is a monster (due to experiments)
and another had a mental breakdown (cracked sanity) due to an experiment to make him into a weapon.

In all honesty, the fight of Bizzaro Sephiroth looks like the Tower of Kefka fight right before his angelic version, which you go into an Angelic version of Sephiroth as well.

Don't get me wrong, FFVII is no less in my eyes but the similarities of the main plot points and character points is remarkable, especially since they are the only ones that have those similarities.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-20 02:35:52
VII's plot is much more than Vi.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-20 21:02:47
Even being the FFVI fanboy I am, I have to second DLPB on this.

Quote
Ex-member of evil organization (empire) that is trying to take over the world
Member of said org. wants to become a god
main char. works for rebel force
organization fails
World threatened (FFVI's world actually destroyed)
Killing villain saves world (for different reasons, Kefka's corruption and Sephiroth's will)

Congrats, you almost described all FFs :D (FF2, FF4, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9 & FF12 for sure - and arguably FF5, FF10 & FF13) :

IE, bad guy linked to evil organisation wants to gain power to do evil deeds, hero part of rebel force, and things go bad until you finally defeat the final boss and restore peace. But fortunately, Final Fantasy stories are more than just that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2011-04-20 23:08:51
Well, in all technicality; Final Fantasy VII's storyline is a near copy-paste of FFVI's.

Ex-member of evil organization (empire) that is trying to take over the world
Member of said org. wants to become a god
main char. works for rebel force
organization fails
World threatened (FFVI's world actually destroyed)
Killing villain saves world (for different reasons, Kefka's corruption and Sephiroth's will)

In fact both villains are only villains because of a mental breakdown; one from discovering that he is a monster (due to experiments)
and another had a mental breakdown (cracked sanity) due to an experiment to make him into a weapon.

In all honesty, the fight of Bizzaro Sephiroth looks like the Tower of Kefka fight right before his angelic version, which you go into an Angelic version of Sephiroth as well.

Don't get me wrong, FFVII is no less in my eyes but the similarities of the main plot points and character points is remarkable, especially since they are the only ones that have those similarities.

Classic FF6 fanboy behaviour, singling FF7 out for doing what every single FF does.

You're also wrong that it's a copy paste. Playing FF6 is like finding Tolkein's first draft of LotR. You can see all the basic ideas in there, but they're all much less well developed. Just take the mental breakdowns of Kefka and Sephiroth, which you drew attention to. FF6 used the cop-out of having Kefka go mad because lol magic poisoning his brain. FF7 took the much more satisfying, but harder to execute, route of driving him insane through a dramatic revelation. Or look at how Sephiroth controls Cloud and compare it to how Kefka controls Terra; lol magic hat! ;D

FF7 has a lot of things in common with FF6, yes. But FF7 is a lot more mature from a literary perspective. FF6 uses very cheap and unsatisfying explanations for what's going on: Kefka kills people because he's crazy, and he's crazy because magitek melted his brain. Kefka controls Terra with a magic hat. No more explanation needed. FF7 has a go at giving more detailed explanations for what's going on and more complex motivations for the characters.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Covarr on 2011-04-21 00:46:28
Some people try to pass off FF6's failings as superiorities, and it drives me crazy. They say Kefka is a better villain because he didn't need a reason, he was just crazy. No, that just makes him an underdeveloped villain. The fact is, he's really no better than the villain from Dungeons & Dragons (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190374/): evil because he's the bad guy and that's his place in the story. He does horrible things, and his only apparent motivation is that the writers want to make sure you know he's the bad guy.

This isn't to say FF6 is the only game with this problem. FFIV had it in spades. The difference is, FFIV doesn't try to hide it, and more than makes up with it through some of the best hero development I've ever seen in a game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: BloodShot on 2011-04-21 03:02:05
/\ I just got 4 for my psp, and now I have more reason to play it.

Should I play 6 as well?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Covarr on 2011-04-21 04:47:40
/\ I just got 4 for my psp, and now I have more reason to play it.

Should I play 6 as well?
Yes. While many of us will argue against it when it's compared to FF7, it is still a very good game.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-21 06:56:53
Some people try to pass off FF6's failings as superiorities, and it drives me crazy. They say Kefka is a better villain because he didn't need a reason, he was just crazy. No, that just makes him an underdeveloped villain. The fact is, he's really no better than the villain from Dungeons & Dragons (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0190374/): evil because he's the bad guy and that's his place in the story. He does horrible things, and his only apparent motivation is that the writers want to make sure you know he's the bad guy.

This isn't to say FF6 is the only game with this problem. FFIV had it in spades. The difference is, FFIV doesn't try to hide it, and more than makes up with it through some of the best hero development I've ever seen in a game.

I have heard all that too and it is so desperate and frustrating.  It is generally the same with everything.  Like with ff13, they say it is great that your control was minimised or that traditional towns "that got in the way of the action" have been almost eradicated. 

FF6 had a very basic plot but let's remember what console it was on.  For its time it was an amazing game but people need to take off the blinkers.  Story wise compared to VII it just doesn't rate, and as kud said, that is wholly demonstrable in terms of dialogue and complexity.  People like to make excuses for things when they have nowhere else to run.

kefka is mad... because he is.  Someone is in love... because they are.

There is no way around it.

 I was bored out of my mind with FF6's story to be frank (and all the while what faith I had in reviews was dwindling to nothing), and the reason I finished the game was because the music and gameplay were up to the standard.  The FMV added later for PSX were good too.

Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-21 09:52:22
lol, I had the opposite experience with FF6 and FF7. Played FF6 first (it was my first FF actually), and after playing through FF7 for the first time, I ended up being disappointed somehow. I felt it was lacking, in the gameplay department. Where were my 4 character teams, my multi-party dungeons, my Tools, Blitz, Runic, Rages, my item trade system called the Colosseum, my Merit Award, my Cursed Shield, ... ?

Plus, there was no second world map to freely explore, musics for the most part were midi-quality, and you couldn't remove Cloud from the party. All this (and I forget some) led me to feel that FF7 was just a downgraded FF6. It was only years later, and after FF8's and FF9's release maybe, that I finally could enjoy FF7 for what it is. But I still feel FF7 is lacking in the gameplay department, and this is why I've been working on a FF7 mod for so long.

The funny thing is, I can't play FF6 nowadays. I don't know if it's because I played it too many times in the past, but its battle mechanics, its story and even its graphics & musics bore the hell out of me. Also, Esper learning sucks balls, and stats are badly designed (Stamina, Vigor and Speed are useless compared to Magic Power).

And strangely enough, even though I played FF7 just as much, I don't see myself getting bored of it anytime soon. And to go back on topic, FF8 also feels like a downgraded FF6 to me, but without FF7's redeeming qualities.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-21 10:49:11
Are you joking?  Lacking in game play?

-Minigames:  Bike, sub, snowboard for starter.  3 major minigames that 6 doesn't have of ANY kind
-Materia system, and finding materias.  Each with a new ability that you can even get working with extra effects.  Mastering materia.
-Super bosses
-ultimate weapons (like venus gospel)
-Breeding chocobos
-Chocobo racing
- Fort Condor mini game
- Enemy Skills
- Mansion safe
-Riding train, secret codes, huge materia
-Wallmarket and honeybee manor
- Battle Arena
- Roller coaster mini game
- Wutai side quest


What exactly does VI have compared to that?   It has nothing of the sort like it.  It is just grind and find with VI, something every RPG does.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-21 12:57:45
-Minigames:  Bike, sub, snowboard for starter.  3 major minigames that 6 doesn't have of ANY kind

My bad, I meant RPG gameplay.

Quote
-Materia system, and finding materias.  Each with a new ability that you can even get working with extra effects.  Mastering materia.

To which FFVI would reply : Magicite system and finding Espers. Each with magics to learn, a special attack unique to each Magicite, and stat bonuses at level up. I agree, though, that the Materia system is much more interesting than the Magicite one.

Quote
-Super bosses

In FFVI, and especially FFVI Advance, you got many optional dungeons and bosses in the World of Ruin. In the original, you still have Doom Gaze, Atma, the Brachosaur in the dinosaur forest, and the 8 Dragons. I admit they're not as interesting to beat as Ruby or Emerald, but there are more bosses throughout the course of the game.

Quote
-ultimate weapons (like venus gospel)

Atma/Ultima Weapon, the Illumina/Lightbringer, the Valiant Knife, the Stunner, the Pearl or Aura Lance, the Scimitar, the Fixed Dice, (etc.) all say hi. And this is without counting the new weapons from FFVIa.

Quote
-Breeding chocobos
-Chocobo racing
- Fort Condor mini game

This goes in my above point about non-RPG gameplay features. Plus, the Fort Condor mini game is expensive, and given the crappy awards, is entirely useless.

Quote
- Enemy Skills

FFVI has three kinds of Enemy skills : Strago's Lores / Blue Magics, Mog's Dances, and Gau's Rages. Gau's Rages are even a game inside the game.

Quote
- Mansion safe

One optional boss leading to a secret character ? FFVI has that, too.

Quote
-Riding train, secret codes, huge materia

Riding train ? You must be thinking about FFVIII. Or if you're thinking about timed events, FFVI has some too. And FFVI also has secret codes (like figuring out the time in Zozo). Are we gonna list every little thing like this ?

Quote
-Wallmarket and honeybee manor

Imperial Banquet and Imperial Base ? The wounded soldier in Mobliz ?... ...come on now, this is getting a little ridiculous.

Quote
- Battle Arena

Colosseum !

Quote
- Roller coaster mini game

My point 1.

Quote
- Wutai side quest

Narshe's sidequest ? Ancient Castle ? Cyan's Dreams ? Ebot's Rock ? Gogo's Den ?

Quote
What exactly does VI have compared to that?   It has nothing of the sort like it.

Yup, nothing at all obviously.

Quote
It is just grind and find with VI, something every RPG does.

Sounds like RPGs aren't your thing then, if, for example, you prefer to play snowboard, Road Rash or a chocobo race. The fact is that FFVI has more diversity in its cast (14 characters versus 9), with unique abilities and desperation attacks, and more diversity in the equipments. In FFVII, weapons and armors are just upgrades of previous ones, with rare exceptions. More power, more materia slots, and that's all. In FFVI, you can equip boomerangs, daggers, swords, katanas, brushes, spears, ninja knives, claws, staves, shields, helms, hats, clothes, armors and relics - while in FFVII you can't make Cloud use a spear, and are limited to an armlet and an accessory.

This is, among other things I already listed in my previous post, what I mean by more gameplay. Gosh, I can't believe I had to defend FFVI when I stated in my above post that I prefer FFVII these days. FFVII's snowboarding is nice and a fresh distraction of course, but if I want to play snowboard, I boot up Cool Boarders or something, not a RPG.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-21 16:30:18
No in VII there are lots of little things going on:

Resuscitating Priscilla, driving the train to stop ir crashing, punching in codes, junon tv ratings march.  Things that brighten up the game.  In VI it is all grind and grind more.  It isn't anywhere near the same level.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-21 16:44:55
I don't know about you, but when I decide to play FFVII, it's not because I look forward to reviving Priscilla (on the contrary, I can't help but sigh the whole process), to punch in various codes, or to participate in the Junon march.

I'm not saying it doesn't brighten up the game, as you say, but the main gameplay element still is the battle system and everything that revolves around it (leveling up, materia, equipment, the party members, the "dungeons", etc). And on that point, FFVI has more meat on the bones.

FFVII beats FFVI on the Materia and Limit Break systems, while VI beats VII on all the other battle-related subjects. For example, you don't have a boss that requires you to kill your own party members to be defeated, in FFVII. It's almost always the basic "deal damage and heal when necessary" from beginning to end.

I admit though, that all the little things you list perhaps contribute to make a richer gaming experience overall, and this may be why I like FF7 better now. True, FF6 shoves its battle system down our throats a little too much. It didn't bother me 10 years ago, but now it does.

EDIT:

Just remembered about the status effects, too. FFVI has many more. You have the "No MP=Death" status, the "human" status (some weapons deal double damage to humans), Float, Zombie, MagiTek (sorta), Image, Clear, Freeze, Life3, and Terra's Morph status. And most don't go away after a battle.

You also have weapons that cast magic spells when used as items or when using the Fight command, randomly thrown weapons (that you don't lose once thrown ^^), accessories that cast Safe, Shell or both when your HP is low, the Genji Glove that allows you to dualwield or the Gauntlet that allows you to hold a weapon with both hands, the Jump command, a powerful weapon that might break after each use, Golem's Earth Wall effect, 1000 Needles, the Dischord spell that halves the target's level, the Rippler spell that exchanges statuses, enemies that alter their elemental reactions thanks to the WallChange spell, the ForceField that eliminates one random element from the battlefield, and the Quick & X-Zone magics.

Sadly, FFVII doesn't have all that. Hence why I felt -with good reasons- that it is a downgraded FFVI. My dream would be to insert all these features back into FFVII  :D
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-04-21 19:23:03
Mods yay!

That is all.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: BlitzNCS on 2011-04-21 19:46:38
You don't have a boss that requires you to kill your own party members to be defeated, in FFVII.

TL;DR rest of post/thread, but doesn't ruby weapon count as one of those?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-21 19:59:19
TL;DR rest of post/thread, but doesn't ruby weapon count as one of those?

Why is that even a talking point :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-21 20:14:44
 :-[
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DarkFang on 2011-04-21 20:15:48
Mods yay!

That is all.
This.

But you can mod VI too so, whatever. :p
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-21 22:19:01
The funny thing in the Wrexsoul battle though, is that you need to kill the "right" party member during the battle, for the boss to appear (as opposed to having to kill your party members before the boss fight, in Ruby's case). It should be doable through AI editing in FFVII, but don't ask me how (Bosola, NFITC1, Gjoerulv or Titeguy might know, though).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-22 07:52:24
That translation looks way off.  That is more Aleksoul or somthing....

Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-22 18:29:47
That translation looks way off.  That is more Aleksoul or somthing....

It's been a while since I played FFVI Advance, but according to Djibriel's FAQ (the FFVI bible), they still translated his name as Wrexsoul. So maybe it is a good translation (or, highly unlikely : they considered it was as legendary as spoony bard & co, so they kept it in).

Or, if you're just joking, I'm afraid I don't get the joke :(
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-22 18:45:54
It is no joke... and that definitely is not the correct translation.  The kana does not fit it at all.  What it is, I dunno.  That first bit could be any number of things Alek, alec, arek, arec, etc etc.

アレクソウル (Arekusouru)

アレク Areku.  Cannot be Wrex.  It is impossible.  I would assume Wrex soul would be uurekusu souru or just rekusu souru

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Arek  I would go with Arek... But I can't tell what it is.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DarkFang on 2011-04-22 18:51:51
アレクソウル - Arekusouru

Beat me to it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-22 18:54:50
ソウル

is soul for sure :)  At least.  L spiro says they definitely intended Ale at the start.

perhaps they just didnt have the space for what they intended.  Certainly not wrex though or rex.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Armorvil on 2011-04-22 19:00:17
I see, thanks for the info, both of you. Does Alek/Areku/... mean anything ? Because I kinda understand why they went with Wrexsoul. Wrex = wreck; Wrexsoul being a soul-destroyer monster preying on Cyan and all that.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DLPB_ on 2011-04-22 19:04:00
Well that is the thing... it certainly will mean something to the author and is possibly pulled from some sort of myth.

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Alek

One thing is sure.  It isn't wrex or rex, because if it was they would not have started it with an A among other problems.

See it could also be a pun.  They could have used the su from the areksu to become the x.  So for example Alexoul.  or somethin silly that doesnt work as well with english.

If I had to go with hand on heart, I would say it is taken from Alexander and is Alek Soul or Alex Soul or Alexoul.

yeah Alex is just 1 extra kana, I think they were just playing about with it, so I would definitely go with the above 3.  Well that was a nice diversion.  Also goes to show you how the English localisation refuse to change it even when blatantly wrong...

At least they changed Atma weapon LMAO.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Furzball on 2011-04-23 04:46:32
I still have to say FF8 is my favorite final fantasy. I've always been a fan of the confusing time travel storylines lol.

As for gameplay, meh, I play alot of games where the gameplay sucks (LIFELINE) but the concept or story are interesting. Problem is, after seven I really didn't like the fact that I had to collect screws and stuff to make weapons. So I said "screw that" and played through the whole thing and beat it on original weapons. Something not really to be suggested in FF7 or 10. But is entirely possible with stat boost in the junction system. Real life version you could take a plastic butterknife, junction a good ifrit and you have a dang nuke. Not to mention all the magic and items that help.

And I'm a bit of a sap for love stories. This one is abit too... easy and straightforward. No matter what Cloud gets rinoa. At least in FF7 you got to choose your date. Personally I liked Quistis (maybe it's cause of the whip and the whole young maturaty thing). Rinoa is abit of a switchbitch in my opinion. As soon as she breaks up with Seifer she goes hitting on Squall. I have don't blame Seifer for being a douche to Squall in the game.

And triple triad. Dang the only thing I wish to mainly change with that is the annoying music. Otherwise it's easy but challenging enough to have fun. Heck I just waste time on my psp playing it in balamb even before going out to get ifrit.

And Laguna is the most irresponsible parent I have ever seen.

wait... why did I like this game again?
Innocence of youth. I was young enough when it first game out that I didn't think of all these things. Back then it was sappy love story, graphical eye candy, and pretty music. Sad to say I even used "eyes on me" as a final in drama class. Yes I'm a guy, yes i know it's a girls song, but I had it memorized easily enough.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Adhira on 2011-04-24 16:30:00
Here i go breaking my lurking vow, but this thread is pretty nice considering what fan discussions about which FF is the best usually turn out to be in other places~

My all time favorite FF, RPG and game is FFVIII. As others said, the main fault of its battle system is being too exploitable, and the Aura > Meltdown > Renzokuken combo allowing you to plow through every possible endgame challenge with ease.

I heard lots of people complaining "you have to spend an hour drawing 100 of every spell at the start", while that was obviously not necessary and plain exploiting of the drawing system. There are just too many ways to gain an unfair advantage in the game, ultimately spoiling the whole experience.

My favorite features of VIII are the scenario (the world), Nomura's excellent designs (The Ragnarok... i still dream about it at night) and my idol's, Kazushige Nojima's writing. (It admittedly loses focus near the end of the game, though)

Considering the opinions i heard across the years, the FF8 gaming trend often goes this way for people who actually don't get to hate the story and characters instantly:

first playthrough: don't understand junction and GF leveling immediately > underpowered near the end > fail to finish
late playthrough: through gaming + guides > overpowered > lose interest near the end

Between the two examples one usually sees the ending once or twice.

Had i the time and resources to rework VIII like people are seemingly starting to do with VII, i would definitely:
- nerf or remove Meltdown
- remove the "hidden" drawing points on the two lv100 islands
- slightly increase the enemy levels (or simply increase level variance across common enemies)
- give all enemies a limited amount of spells that can be drawn in one fight and limit drawing effectiveness to SeeD Rank
- add a few drawing points to the world
- make more stats open for junction in the start (more "J [skill]" abilities)
- make the GF learning trees all visible from the start (or make an in-game tutorial about them...)
- increase APs necessary to learn Tier 2 and especially Tier 3 spell crafting skills
- slightly decrease the output of spell crafting

This way you will have fewer spells of the same kind and weaker junctions at the start (no more having more HP than bosses), being still able to craft your spells from items thanks to GF skills as you go on.

At the very least i think the duel at the end of the first disk should be actually difficult for the player...

In conclusion, i believe the ideas behind FF8's battle system were as good as the ones behind FF7 (if not better), but the balancing and the easy exploits ruined them. With the proposed fixes the various spell crafting skills would become more useful in the course of the game and the increased difficulty would make combat more enjoyable.

After all, remember how many times you used tier 2 spells in VIII. Probably not many as you could easily craft 100 tier 3 spells from items by the time they started to appear on monsters.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: xLostWingx on 2011-04-24 21:16:21
I think that if one were to do a factor anaylsis of FFs and people's preferences - There would be three main factors (excluding personality of course):

1.  Age when played
2.  First FF played
3.  Other FFs played

I played VII when I was 12.  It was the first FF I played, and I hadn't heard of FF before then.  Now, 12 years later, it is still my favorite game.  First, it is a great game, but second, the factors of my life at that time were certainly signifcant influences.  Like a previous poster said, "...innocence of youth..." FFVII was probably great for those of us who were 11-13, and it was our first FF.  Had I played VIII before VII, then perhaps my preferences would be much different that they are today.  I imagine literary background could be a major factor as well.  I read hundreds of books before I ever played an RPG.  Before then, I played shit like Sonic, and Gran Turismo, and Tekken.  So...idk, its just interesting, from a Psychological perspective, how FFs become different individual's favorite FF.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Vgr on 2011-04-24 23:07:53
...played VIII before VII...

That's my case. VIII was the very first FF I played and still one of my favorites : I just cannot decide which FF is better whitin FF7, FF8, FF9, FF10 and FF12. They all are good. FF9, FF10 and FF12 are in the second rank, tough. FF7 and FF8 are the best FFs ever.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: DarkFang on 2011-04-24 23:58:20
My first Final Fantasy was VI. I remember I was in the Narshe Caves with Terra.

My top five Final Fantasy games would consist of (in no particular order) IV, VI, VII, VIII, and XII.

But you know a Final Fantasy game no one talks about? Mystic Quest. That game was pretty fun and had a beast soundtrack.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: Lion on 2011-05-04 03:08:10
ff8 is my favourite final fantasy.

i personally found the characterization of the main enemy very very poor. she never gets fleshed out and you never really truly hate her, like you hated sephiroth. it was indifference you felt and it really ruined it.

spoilers incoming

i hated how edea and seifer never amounted to anything. in the end they were just there. they had so much going for them but then  they fall flat and do nothing.

i loved the ending though. the surprise twist at the end with laguna and raine being squalls father and mother just added so much. watching lagunas mature was really really pleasing. i feel like laguna should have a game made about him in the same way ff7's zack had a game made about him. at the start laguna wanted this hot chick (julia) without even talking to her. he makes a fool of himself and he's far too irresponsible at this point. he grows up and he marries raine and maybe he's still immature but you get the feeling he's not a complete idiot with women anymore. but i guess his sense of adventure takes hold of him and he has to leave.

ultimecia was just an absolutely terrible character. it's just bad story telling technique to have the main villain someone you barely know. no character development meant squall might as well have been fighting a tree because the feelings were the same.

so was seifer. at the start he is squalls rival, he's this cocky bully who seems like an asshole but you'd never imagine turns evil. by the end of disc 2 though he's just a puppet with nothing to him at all.

end spoilers

the first disc was probably the best disc. i liked how it was action packed and i loved the mission type feel of it. do this and kidnap the president. do this and assassinate the sorceress.

apart from the love story in the later discs and lagunas story, literally nothing of interest truly happens. im serious.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: yarLson on 2011-05-04 16:00:08
i dunno man, Esthar is a pretty interesting place   :P
Title: Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
Post by: NFITC1 on 2011-05-04 19:27:25
The funny thing in the Wrexsoul battle though, is that you need to kill the "right" party member during the battle, for the boss to appear (as opposed to having to kill your party members before the boss fight, in Ruby's case). It should be doable through AI editing in FFVII, but don't ask me how (Bosola, NFITC1, Gjoerulv or Titeguy might know, though).

Oh yeah. It's simple. I forgot about Wrexsoul. Maybe Gi Nattack should be re-written to act like that. I think all the necessary AI pieces have been found to make that happen. Someone should make that happen. :D
Title: .
Post by: Jenova's Witness on 2011-05-06 17:13:51
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