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Final Fantasy Forums => Other Modding => FF7 Other Mod Releases => Topic started by: DLPB on 2011-05-19 00:11:35

Title: [FF7PC-98] Beacause - FF7 Retranslation (Merged into Reunion, use that instead)
Post by: DLPB on 2011-05-19 00:11:35
DLPB and Luksy present:

BEACAUSE
The Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project



Donate HERE (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=XQ56KXRN58SAA)

The non-dialogue documentation is now Here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnKl04es5qkqdHFKVjF1SVY2RjlKUGNzSU1Db0tzenc)
Remember this is updated every now and then. 

Current release: R04

Please note that English canon items, character names and American spellings can be selected in the installer.   That means Moogle, Phoenix Down and so forth can be retained by selecting to keep the older localisations.  See the readme.

This project is automatically merged with the Menu Overhaul Project (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11649.0). In other words you download the installer there to install the Re-translation.

For a detailed explanation of this project, please read this (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11867.msg164692#msg164692)


Progress Report:

flevel and world_us.lgp
Total maps: 706
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-05-19 15:12:07
MAIN NOTES

A note on language:

The installer allows British English or American English.   I personally don't like how the British English has been messed about with over the years but that's just me :P  There is 1 exception, however- some words ending "ise" are infact fully acceptable as -ize.  This change is not an Americanisation and it is technically more correct when dealing with words of Greek origin.  Words ending -yse like Paralyse are exempt from the rule.  Unfortunately, since many words in english retain "ise", even in America, it seems like bad practice dividing words up and this would only lead to perceived inconsistencies.  Thus, -ise will be preferred for all words.

A note on Sources:

It became clear very early on, that official sources are sometimes incorrect.  Ultimania/Omega is considered the main authority for FF7, but it still has "Midir" as "Mideel" along with other spellings which are very suspect (like Elena, Zack).  I do not believe that these spellings have been verified by Nomura or the other main staff, and the English for them is likely chosen from mistakes made by the English translator Michael Baskett.  The idea that he only made the "Aeris" mistake in the character names, given the massive number of other mistakes, is far fetched.  He had no contact and no sources to draw upon when translating.  It is far more likely that the mistakes have become canon.  Since we do not recognise canon and are endeavouring to make an accurate translation, the sources have been carefully studied and what we feel to be correct has been used.  Sometimes there was a vote.  The installer allows those who believe Baskett to be some perfect god, or who think it is sacrilege to change the accepted flawed canon, to keep the original names.

Last Order may have had numerous plot holes, but as a resource for spellings it is actually pretty good and it was written with Nojima onboard.  One thing it immediately cleared up was that Nibelheim is actually Niblheim, a 1 letter change from the norse Niflheim.  The e is not there.

These decisions can be reversed if there is written proof from the main creators of what their intentions were regarding spelling or if they make it clear why they feel it necessary to throw out the correct spellings just because 1 man got them wrong originally. 



==========================
Since this project is changing English canon of the series and of FF7 it has obviously drawn major criticism from some fans.   Generally, these criticisms tell me they haven't read this thread properly because then they would realise that the installer offers a choice to keep the original canon.  However, anyone who is smart enough will realise that what they originally received the first time round was not intended in the slightest and was full of mistakes.  Why anyone would want to keep these mistakes, simply because they grew up on them, is a mystery to me.

With "canon", one has to realise that every language has its own, and thus the original vision is watered down and inconsistent from place to place.  This is the whole point of why we threw canon out.  Some are very angry that we have used "Moguri" and not "Moogle", but look at other countries and you will see they have correctly used "Moguri" and so forth.   It ended up Moogle simply due to an initial mistake;  a mistake that has not been corrected.

The main argument I see against sticking with canon is this:

If you made a novel and then found out that your mythology had been changed, your references has been changed, your character names had been changed, a character's personality had been changed- I am guessing you would not be happy with that translation.  To create something that a western audience understands and sounds good is the aim of a good localisation.  Changing facts and characters is not localising... it is being unprofessional.

People who think we should make 100 allowances to appease fanbase are not thinking straight.  No one has the right to butcher another person's work. There are French, German, Japanese and Chinese cultures in Final Fantasy VII, among others.  These need to be preserved, the same way they are in Japanese game.  Taking things away from the game is diluting the genius and art of the game itself, as well as blatantly ignoring the writers' wishes.

Most criticisms of this project are unfair, and border line crazy.  I have had people demand that I leave plot mistakes, spelling mistakes, grammar mistakes, and even Midgar Zolom.  The general theme seems to be that these people want a retranslation project to not be a retranslation project.  To quote one person, "I grew up with the original localisation, however bad it was, and so did millions of others.  We loved it.  I cringe at text changes, however more accurate they may be."

I still remember the whole "Aerith" debacle, which rages to this day.  Aeris sounds better but the writers were not happy that their character name was wrong in the English game. They made sure that was changed.  Rather than people accepting their wishes on the matter, they instead jumped up and down demanding that their preferences supersede the authors.

Arguments based on nostalgia or on canon are flawed and counter productive.   Fanboyism is a mental illness.


On with the posts:
------------------

Qhimm:

Quote
Also I don't think anyone was questioning that if the Japanese version used an existing concept and the original translators were too daft to realize the reference (instead outputting a nonsense name that doesn't convey anything), then it is naturally an improvement to fix it.

However, even here there is normally a balance to strike; Japanese people often choose foreign names only for the "cool" feeling they evoke, and directly translating that into something that sounds dull or just weird in English means the feeling is lost. This is often just as important as the literal meaning of the original word, and it is the translators job to try to strike a balance when there is no translation that is both literally, connotationally and emotionally accurate (i.e. most of the time).

In my opinion, a perfect example is the translation of Chrono Trigger's Schala and Janus -- the original Japanese had them as "Sarah" and "Jack". The names sounded cool to them and enhanced the foreign and out-of-place feel of the ancient Zeal kingdom, but had those names been used as-is in the English version, they would have accomplished the complete opposite and detracted from the experience. To us, Sarah and Jack are completely normal names and would have made Zeal feel less of an advanced magical kingdom and more of a kid's show on TV (aired after Barney the Dinosaur). Instead, the translator invented new names (though based the originals) that evoked roughly similar feelings in English audience as the original names did to Japanese people, and credit should go to him for that.

The other point to consider is that when Japanese people put in references to Japanese culture in their writing, it is meant to be easily recognizable (like references to English culture are to us). Retaining it as-is may be more accurate and can sometimes make the text more interesting (primarily to people interested in Japan though), but the translator should always be aware that by doing so, the nature and focus of the sentences shifts as well. For example, turning a trivial cultural reference (the Japanese reference as seen by Japanese people) to an intricate one (the Japanese reference as seen by non-Japanese people) can make the speaker sound more intellectual or alter the intended feel of the sentence altogether.

This retranslation project clearly aims for a very literal translation, and this should be kept in mind when viewing it. Since no changes are being made to accommodate the target audience, it thus remains Japanese. Playing it will not give you the original Japanese experience unless you are well-versed enough to play it in an fully Japanese mindset -- and if you can do that, you might just want to play the Japanese original in order to avoid any confusion.

DLPB:

Well to be honest Qhimm, I think you are being a bit unfair and over the top when it comes to which names we have chosen and what we have actually done.  I don’t quite know what you mean when you say too literal, as the changes we have made are better than the original, more accurate and very often more intelligent because they conform to the whole meaning behind them and not some mistake and that is what tons of these are, let’s not be in ANY doubt about that.  A lot of these mistakes have been corrected in FF’s after VII including Midgardsormr. 

Having seen some of the changes (I am still not sure if you have read the full document)I can tell you that a lot of these are simply mistakes and have nothing whatsoever to do with “making it sound better”.  I don’t understand how you can believe that this shoddy translation was done on purpose when all evidence suggests that the vast majority were done because Baskett didn’t have a clue.  The fact a lot of these have been corrected in future installments says a lot about it.

Quote
However, even here there is normally a balance to strike; Japanese people often choose foreign names only for the "cool" feeling they evoke, and directly translating that into something that sounds dull or just weird in English means the feeling is lost.

I would say that most names have a good logical background, usually in mythology.   Half of these names won’t be obvious to a Japanese person because they too would have to research what they mean.  They would have no more idea what a Midgardsormr (corrected in FFIX for example) is than we do before we look into Norse.  That is 1 example.  There are hundreds. I am afraid it all breaks down and becomes a disaster if we start dictating what is or isn’t acceptable.  Cloud and strife are chosen specifically to refer to Cloud’s mental state being clouded, and strife as ‘in trouble’.  Changing his name takes away from this and does not add to it.  Unfortunately every other country needs to know English to get that background but so do the Japanese.  For the most part FF7’s monsters and names were made from English words.  That is how they chose to do it.

Quote
This is often just as important as the literal meaning of the original word, and it is the translators job to try to strike a balance when there is no translation that is both literally, connotationally and emotionally accurate (i.e. most of the time).

Again, the literal word is often completely acceptable.  Not always, which is why we have had to leave Death Blow, even though it means “certain kill” or “Special Technique”, but a lot of them needed no such adjustment.


Luksy (Main Translator):

Hi everyone, I've been working with Dan on the translation (although not nearly as hard or as often as I would have liked) just thought I'd chip in my two sen.

Maybe a little bg info on me might help first, I live and work in Japan and a small part of my work is translations (although hardly ever fiction), I have a degree in Japanese and a level 2 JLPT (hopefully I'll have the 1 later this year, I flunked it last December Grin ). I'm not trying to turn this into some kind of e-penis post though, I've met many a person with no qualifications who can do a far better job than me, I just want you to know that I'm not talking crap all of the time!

First off it isn't our intention to do a literal translation, I hope this will be clearer when we start doing the actual dialogue, in fact some of the dialogue in the menus and world map that we have redone isn't literal at all.

So far a few of the monster names, weapons, items etc have been kept close to the Japanese for a few reasons, e.g. some are wholly Japanese concepts like Hachimaki or Uchide mallet for which there is no exact English equivalent (i.e. we don't use "spy" in the place of "ninja"), and quite a few we just have no clue, which leads me to another point.

There is a huge amount of evidence that the original translator(s) were rushed, had poor communication channels, were incompetent or more likely a combination of these. Some of the English suffers from poor grammar - "This guy are sick" - (usually indicates a rushed job), being out of context -"Cloud, that one!"- (i.e. was translated as a block of text by people who hadn't even seen the game), and at times is just plain wrong -"Zauger's cup"- (I don't know what to say) and a lot of the monster names (no communication with the original creators). Bizzarro Sephiroth is a personal favorite  Grin

This isn't to say that the original translation should be binned, most of the characters were very well characterized and I think we'll be keeping a lot of the original flavor and text.

As sadly we can't just phone Nomura & co. (well I suppose we could try, probably wouldn't go down very well!), for some of the (non-dialogue) material we have no choice but to do a 1:1 with the Japanese because that's all we're left with. Very often the original translation's solution was to just come up with something that sounded similar, which I don't think is necessarily a better way of doing things at best, but more importantly it eliminates any concept of what should be considered the English "canon".

There are so many holes in the original translation that it is very hard to take any of it at face value; why should any of it be automatically considered "official"?

We also have far, far more information available at our fingertips than the original translators would have had, which has allowed us to catch many more references to people, places and mythology than the original translation, not to mention far more input and criticism, both very important as we can and have definitely been wrong about many things (and I hope it keeps coming).

At the end of the day this is just another community mod; hopefully the finished product will be as close as possible to the original without sounding like a 5th rate fansub. Again without a direct line to square we can't be sure on some things, but with so many clues in the original translation suggesting the same, I don't see how it can be worse.

The best thing is of course this in no way alters anything, love it or hate it you're free to install or ignore it as you please.
------------------------

Qhimm:

Quote
Jumping back to the topic, I doubt anyone else was thinking that someone chose the word "Midgar Zolom" just because it "sounds cooler to dumb yanks". As has been mentioned, the original localization team probably had very little resources for (or interest in) researching cultural references, were probably dumbstruck by the massive amounts of strange katakana, and in the end just chose something randomly. What I was talking about earlier was about replacing cultural references that made no sense to foreign audiences (like Moguri), but Norse mythology is well-established in the Western world (it is Western culture), so there's no reason not to preserve the reference.

    * FF7 contains a myriad of concepts and references from a wide range of religions and cultures. Building upon existing ideas instead of inventing everything yourself is a cornerstone of not only all literature, but of all civilizations. Referencing existing stories adds familiarity and depth to a new story without having to explain yourself, much like the concept of using idioms. (I wouldn't want to read any story that invents everything from scratch; in fact, I would assume it worse for the effort, and be surprised if it was even readable at all)
    * Localization is a very difficult task, of which translation is but one piece of the puzzle. Languages and cultures do not match 1:1, so clearly some hard choices need to be made where you have to prioritize what's most important to convey. Sometimes this can mean it's warranted to change even names and other seemingly "constant" terms, if it means the overall feeling is better preserved. (I stand by my personal opinion that Schala and Janus were good examples of this)
   

DLPB:

Quote
    * FF7 contains a myriad of concepts and references from a wide range of religions and cultures. Building upon existing ideas instead of inventing everything yourself is a cornerstone of not only all literature, but of all civilizations. Referencing existing stories adds familiarity and depth to a new story without having to explain yourself, much like the concept of using idioms. (I wouldn't want to read any story that invents everything from scratch; in fact, I would assume it worse for the effort, and be surprised if it was even readable at all)

And no one is arguing with that so far so good....

Quote
Localization is a very difficult task, of which translation is but one piece of the puzzle. Languages and cultures do not match 1:1, so clearly some hard choices need to be made where you have to prioritize what's most important to convey. Sometimes this can mean it's warranted to change even names and other seemingly "constant" terms, if it means the overall feeling is better preserved. (I stand by my personal opinion that Schala and Janus were good examples of this)

Well first I have asked that you read the document and I don't think you have so far?  But in any case, there is a distinction between dialogue and non dialogue.  The reason FF7 has a lot of English sounding names is because they were taken from English words, and thus no localisation was needed.  The so called localisation that has been done has not been very good.  As Luksy stated FF English is hardly the Great Model of consistency.  Phoenix Down doesn't sound like anything compared to Phoenix Tail (and yes I know down is referring to feathers); I really can't see why anyone would want the former.  Nostalgia isn't a good enough reason.

The ultimate irony and logic against canon is that had our localisation been used from the beginning, the same people arguing against the changes would now be the same people telling me "I don't like zolom what on earth have you chose that for!?", "I don't understand why you are changing canon."

It all breaks down.... when you think about it. 

Luksy:

Quote
Jumping back to the topic, I doubt anyone else was thinking that someone chose the word "Midgar Zolom" just because it "sounds cooler to dumb yanks". As has been mentioned, the original localization team probably had very little resources for (or interest in) researching cultural references, were probably dumbstruck by the massive amounts of strange katakana, and in the end just chose something randomly. What I was talking about earlier was about replacing cultural references that made no sense to foreign audiences (like Moguri), but Norse mythology is well-established in the Western world (it is Western culture), so there's no reason not to preserve the reference.

Well Moguri was kept in the Spanish and Italian versions of localized games, but in any case by that logic Chocobo should have been changed to something like Chocoba in English seeing as it's (allegedly) taken from a Japanese snack called Chocoball. I don't think the English translators were aiming to change Moguri to better fit a western audience, surely they would have done the same for many other things? Or more to the point why didn't the Italian translators of FFIX call it "Talpistrello" or something similar?

Quote
    * Localization is a very difficult task, of which translation is but one piece of the puzzle. Languages and cultures do not match 1:1, so clearly some hard choices need to be made where you have to prioritize what's most important to convey. Sometimes this can mean it's warranted to change even names and other seemingly "constant" terms, if it means the overall feeling is better preserved. (I stand by my personal opinion that Schala and Janus were good examples of this)

As I said before IOHO a lot of the "hard changes" in the original translation (let's call it the OT from now on :) ) seem to be rushed and / or poorly researched, and not changed because they fit the target market better.

Quote
    * Regardless of being originally correct or not, canon does matter. Buster swords, spoony bards, sons of submariners, when a term "sticks" then that will be what triggers nostalgia later on, not a "corrected" translation.

What is your opinion on FFT and the PSP remake? Surely you wouldn't argue that the PS1 version had a superior translation because it came first and established "canon"? I haven't met anyone who thinks so (although the PSP "olde speake" is a little OTT at times), why should FFVII not be subject to the same process?

The reasons for following the Japanese as close as possible is we have no contact with the original creators; every decent translation ever made is, I think, done with constant consultation and / or supervision from the original author(s), we don't have this luxury. If Nomura could tell us that a lot of the creature names were thought up under the influence of a particularly bad acid trip we'd be delighted.
-------------------------

Obesebear:

Quote
So, to sum this up for everyone.

This translation is ignoring EVERYTHING past and present, and attempting to translate the game as if the original creators were perfectly fluent and knowledgeable in both Japanese and English.

Luksy:

We're not ignoring everything, and we know that the original creators are certainly not fluent in English, this really isn't a good tl;dr of what we're about, sorry.

Let's see to sum it up as I see it:

    * Translators had limited contact with creators, limited resources and limited time (and at times it seems limited talent) which resulted in
    * a dodgy translation, in more ways than one which lead to
    * the dodginess being repeated because no one could be bothered to contest it


FFT is a prime example actually, the PSP version shows what can be done in the hands of competent translators (I'm not saying we're competent! That of course will be for you to decide).

DLPB:

Simply not true.  A lot of the stuff isn't changed AT ALL.  And when it comes to dialogue, 80% of the world map dialogue was unaltered.  All that is being changed is mistakes, some of which even square have decided to correct in games after VII.

-----------------------------------------------------
Edit.  Shademp sent this to me.

http://www.1up.com/features/squaresoft-localization

It turns out I and Luksy were correct...  Michael Baskett was the LONE translator, who had a real nightmare because of lack of communication and ridiculous file editor.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Dark_Ansem on 2011-05-19 17:44:06
good job. wanted a good translation!
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-05-19 23:51:13
Shademp has agreed to place all of this into an excel document for convenience and to show the differences between PC and PSX.  I have drawn up a simple template for him to use.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Jaki on 2011-05-27 16:25:49
I know this project need more time to release so can you send me a link of Retranslation Project 004. Many project i want to try contain link are dead :(.
Thx for helping

Seriously, dude. Search and read threads properly before bumping for link requests - Bosola
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-05-27 17:00:33
004 is obsolete and no longer supported.  Read the first post.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: halkun on 2011-05-29 07:11:13
I'm looking over your translations... They are pretty professional and much better than anything I've ever seen.

I have a quibble or two..

Submarine Crew
神羅潜水兵

The last bit 「潜水兵」 Doesn't mean so much a "Submarine crew" as it means a "Underwater Soldier". I'm know I'm taking liberties, but the name invokes the type of soldier Solid Snake was in the first part of Metal Gear Solid (Scuba assault), And Raiden in the second. It's associated tightly with Naval Seals, but only when they are doing their wetworks.  It's more like an underwater attack solder. I associate 「潜水兵」 with a wet suit, flippers, and a military diving helmet.

The name is somewhat fantastical. Here's a reference from a Japanese gamer/modeler context

(http://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201103/04/29/c0093829_20491472.jpg)

Also with "Enemy Lure", would "Enemy Aggro" work a little cleaner? I know it's a bit of a colloquialism.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-05-29 14:27:31
Thanks and we did have a discussion about that actually...  But it comes out as neither submarine nor Underwater.  At least not in any dictionaries and we were unsure if they meant simply Submarine but made a mistake.  These soldiers are found at the reactor with the sub which isn't really called Underwater reactor.  More like "Bottom of the ocean reactor"

潜水 【せんすい】 (n,vs) diving;

潜水艦 【せんすいかん】 (n) submarine;

However, I will look into what you have said...  as it could be a reference.  Still...  it seems a bit weird to use scuba dive etc when these are ordinary soldier uniforms.  Especially when it is near to Submarine.
-------------

Aggro

I mean lure does work OK?  and with Chocobo Lure..  I think it is fine as what is intended.  No change required...

============

Edit:

L.Spiro agrees with you that it is referencing a diver soldier (lit. Shin-Ra Diving Soldier), even though the graphic isn't right. [The correction has been added to the document.  Thanks!] He suggested a few alternatives:

Shinra Attack Diver
Shinra Scuba Soldier
Shinra Marine [Force]

Shin-Ra Diving Soldier sounds too crap.  Underwater is too far away... Scuba Diver is the closest...  but I'd go probably with Shin-Ra Marine  ?  What say you?

and I saw this too:

Diver Nest   
ダイバーネスト
daibaanesuto
Diver Nest
[Diver because it is found in the Undersea Mako Reactor.  Unknown relevance of nest.]

<  So Diver was almost certainly intended.

==============

edit 2

Luksy linked to this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frogman

Which is the closest thing to it.  So either

Shin-Ra Frogman
Shin-Ra Combatant Diver
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: halkun on 2011-05-30 05:16:36
A quick Wikipedia search crosslinks to 「潜水士」, which is a "real word" and in context is more "military diver" however, that's a lot more like underwater aux/support (search and rescue) than assault. The 「士」 in this case donates a military rank, but low class, (enlisted, non-NCO)  The  「兵」 in 「潜水兵」 invokes an image of armed conflict, actually more to the point, weaponized assault. 「潜水兵」 is also not a real word. It's  「潜水士」, but "promoted" to underwater combat. The closest I can come up with is "Dive Trooper"

Hey, that works.... :)

I grew up in Japan, and was stationed at Astugi Navy base for a while. However, I also just like talking about this kind of stuff for fun so I might just be wasting your time :P
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-05-30 05:19:48
Not at all.  It is very interesting and a correction that needed making.  I guess something along the lines of Dive Trooper, Diver Combat, Dive Soldier is fine. 

 8)

Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: halkun on 2011-05-30 06:01:25
One of the best tools for translation is a thesaurus.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-05-30 06:04:31
Yup.  I've used it for a lot of stuff in this :P  Helps sometimes...

Anyway bed time.  Menu overhaul is getting closer to completion too.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-05-30 15:22:55
Also note that the documentation is incomplete in some areas.  I am now working to fix this.  For example the config options and shop text.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Left Ventricle on 2011-06-08 01:30:58
Is this intended simply as a direct transliteration of the Japanese? Or is the ultimate goal a relocalization? Because I have some serious misgivings about a lot of your choices, but it'll take me some time to go over your enormous list of changes and form my opinion. That is, of course, if you're looking for criticism. If this is just a masturbatory post saying "Look what we did!" then I won't bother.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Template on 2011-06-08 04:05:37
If this is just a masturbatory post saying "Look what we did!" then I won't bother.

lol...................

i think you know already.

but i seriously want you to go through line by line and make snarky remarks about almost all of them and post it.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2011-06-08 04:55:59
Is this intended simply as a direct transliteration of the Japanese? Or is the ultimate goal a relocalization?

Quote
  • Items, spells, places, monsters and people for which we have good evidence as having been incorrectly translated, or modified for a western audience, will be restored.
  • What this project isn't: A literal retranslation from the Japanese (aside from certain names and items etc as mentioned above).

Because I have some serious misgivings about a lot of your choices, but it'll take me some time to go over your enormous list of changes and form my opinion. That is, of course, if you're looking for criticism. If this is just a masturbatory post saying "Look what we did!" then I won't bother.

Quote
  • Please keep any discussion on topic as much as possible, we will take any criticism or suggestions seriously as long as it is honest.
  • If there's anything there you do not agree with, please copy pasta and give us your thoughts.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-06-08 10:02:06
I invite you to go through the changes but most of them will not be changing because they are accurate, better or there is no word from the writers.  Character names, you will be given a choice  in the final installer, since Squareenix have retconned the intended translation in favour of the mistakes by Baskett, and most of them are now canon despite the fact they are wrong.

These changes are already made to the game files, and it is far from a "look at what we have done", it is used for me to edit and keep track of the changes, to let others see the changes and because this is the main project thread.  If you are willing to give good feedback I will listen, if it is moaning over the fact we are changing things you are nostalgic with, or if you are being an ass, you will find I am capable of being equal to that.

Read especially post http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11867.msg164692#msg164692
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: zoostation on 2011-07-28 05:56:01
Going over this list (which is fantastic, btw), I had one idea. Could Cid's "Dragon Mod" limit break perhaps be "Dragon Mode"?
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2011-07-28 06:35:22
Going over this list (which is fantastic, btw), I had one idea. Could Cid's "Dragon Mod" limit break perhaps be "Dragon Mode"?

It makes sense, but mode would have almost certainly been モード rather than モッド.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-07-28 14:18:49
Yeah as daft as it sounds, modification is probably what they were getting at.  I also mentioned mode at the start but clearly it isn't that :(
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: zoostation on 2011-07-29 16:41:19
I figured it'd come down to knowing and interpreting the original Japanese, but thought I'd check anyway. It's never made sense to me that Cid has that dragon limit break anyway.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-07-29 16:51:29
There is a degree of dragon association with his weapons too.  Like the Dragon Guan Dao :)  They have kind associated the dragon with him, or more correctly, they have associated Chinese with him somewhat.

The same thing with Yuffie who is a mix of Japanese and Chinese with regards to limit breaks, weapons and home town.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DarkFang on 2011-07-31 07:16:09
DLPB, your private messages are set to off.  :-\

Anyways, is there anything I can do to help with the retranslation project?
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-07-31 15:47:05
Unless you can speak Japanese to a high level :P no.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: kicker on 2011-08-17 06:09:09
I just wanted to ask one thing about the retranslation project. As most of us know, there is a FF voice project ongoing right now. Will u implement it with this mod in the future? And if yes then isn't it better if u skipped some of the dialogue mistakes? Instead u could fix the script and maybe send it to the people who oversee the FF voice project so that  the voice covering will be accurate.  :? :?
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-09-05 02:18:26
That would be up to them if they wanted to use it.  I certainly won't be communicating with them on any basis though, unless they had improvements for me...

I can't "skip" mistakes or what is the point?  Might as well create a bouncy castle and then not jump on it.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: kicker on 2011-09-05 08:12:49
heheh..You've got a point there i guess :P
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-09-07 19:11:02
Finally worked out what the hell this enemy is >

Levrikon
レブリコン
reburikon
Lebricon

I ran through the kana a few times until I realised it may be wrong in japanese... and it is.   
レブリコン should be レプリコン Once I checked I was 99% sure it was Replicon, but then I saw

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Replicon

and now I know it is.  They have corrected the kana in that game.

edit

In other news, I have updated information on Morbor (Malboro).  Luksy has an interesting idea.
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-09-09 03:42:38
Luksy did some poking about and found a source that says because they were limited back in the day to 4 kana, they actually meant Dimension. In other words, Dimension (ディメンション) became Di-sion (デジョン).

In FF1 where the move was first used, it teleports an enemy into another dimension.  It does same in FF2 (and pretty much all of them).  The original meaning of the name was always Dimension.

That is what it is for absolutely certainty.  The end.  The Sion/Geon thing is academic and happens sometimes, even if not proper grammar.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Warp

Dimension (Di-sion) has been incorrectly translated as:  ZAP! (FF1)/Warp (FF2, FF3,FF4,FF12) / Banish (FF2origins, FF6, FF10, FF11, FF14) /Remove (FF7)/ X-Zone (FF5,FF6) /N-Zone (FF5) / DeZone (?)/ Dejon (FF4 J2e) / Degeon and De-Dungeon (Fan translation).
Title: Re: [WIP] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-19 07:54:38
Needs moving to releases :)  I will start proper work on this soon now the menu project is coming to a close.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-23 00:27:22
(http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/9/94/Funny_Statue_TrophyFF7.png)

This is チサのカメン originally translated as "Chisa's Mask"  does anyone know what Chisa even is?  I mean we have found a little bit about some ancient sect but no idea if it really is that which inspired this thing, which appears in Dio's show room.

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Bosque on 2011-10-23 14:22:07
(http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/9/94/Funny_Statue_TrophyFF7.png)

This is チサのカメン originally translated as "Chisa's Mask"  does anyone know what Chisa even is?  I mean we have found a little bit about some ancient sect but no idea if it really is that which inspired this thing, which appears in Dio's show room.

Xhosa  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xhosa_people) masks?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-23 15:11:49
I will run it by luksy but the kana looks out

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B3%E3%82%B5%E4%BA%BA

edit:  luksy says very unlikely...  Although they seem to be african inspired...?

I mean maybe Chisa is right... but what does it mean?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-23 20:44:50
Re-translated FMV (https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B1JH_wU1qqN4NzI5YzkzMjQtZWQ1Zi00ZTI3LTgwMzMtMTY2Nzg2ZGYzMzk0&hl=en_US)

Please back up Jenovae and Ending2
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-24 04:44:26
As of today, retranslation project is in full flow.  And it is going well.  I dunno how long it will take but months is best estimate.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Dark_Ansem on 2011-10-24 05:38:21
great :D I wanted to pm you but it's not possible!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-24 05:47:54
great :D I wanted to pm you but it's not possible!

Well the installer for M004d is out, and that includes the non dialogue changes, and dialogue up to the first train  8)

And thanks!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-24 07:31:13
I'm pretty sure it means "Tisza's mask" with Tisza being a pun "Chisa" where one of the meanings is lettuce. There is a pretty popular voice actress named Yokoyama Chisa (alt. Tisza) who was prominent with Weekly Shōnen Jump at the same time the game was being made and she also voice acted in RPG games like Lunar 2.

It could be completely unrelated and the artist was given Tisza, for the neolithic Tisza culture, and knew Chisa meant lettuce, so he drew a leaf of lettuce holding a spear.

The only part I'm sure about is that the katakana means Tisza. I think it is a pun on her because the size and shape of the mouth looks decidedly feminine. And, I can't think of a good reason why the mouth would be so prominent.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-24 10:53:15
Yeah we did look at that and the lettuce thing but could not find the relevance! (I did not see the leaf, I was lookin for lettuce whoops)  Thanks a lot :)   Since she is called Chisa, I guess the kana could directly mean Chisa rather than Tsiza (although it directly matches that too).

Or it could be as you say tsiza culture was intended directly.  If you had to go Chisa or Tsiza which would you choose?  I'd think either can work?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-24 15:40:42
I have decided to place this comparison with the original translation and the new so that you can better understand the small nuances of difference and to dispel this rumour that we are tearing up translation and making it "literal".

Original:
Code: [Select]
AVALANCHE Hideout
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo, {CLOUD}!
There's somethin' I wanna ask ya.”{NEW}
“Was there anyone from SOLDIER
fighting us today?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“None.
I'm positive.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“You sound pretty sure.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“If there was anyone from SOLDIER
you wouldn't be standing here now.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Don't go thinkin' you so bad jus' cuz
you was in SOLDIER.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yeah, you're strong.”{NEW}
“Probably all them guys in SOLDIER are.”{NEW}
“But don't forget that
your skinny ass's workin'
for AVALANCHE now!”{NEW}
“Don't get no ideas
'bout hangin' on to Shinra.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Stayin' with Shinra?”{NEW}
“You asked me a question
and I answered it…that's all.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'm going upstairs.
I want to talk about my money.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Wait, {CLOUD}!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“{TIFA}!
Let him go!”{NEW}
“Looks like he still misses the Shinra!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Shut up!”{NEW}
“I don't care about neither Shinra
nor SOLDIER!”
------------------------------
“But don't get me wrong!”{NEW}
“I don't care about AVALANCHE or
the Planet for that matter!”
------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------
Wedge
“You think I'm a little too uptight?”
{CHOICE}Yeah…
{CHOICE}No…
------------------------------
“The next mission will be
to blow up the Sector 5 Reactor.”{NEW}
“{CLOUD}, you're great!
Don't you ever get nervous?”{NEW}
“Or are you like, impervious to feelings?
Naw, that couldn't be it.”
------------------------------
“Well, that's OK. Don't worry about me.
I don't look like it,
but I'm a coward at heart.”
------------------------------
Wedge
“…{CLOUD}.”{NEW}
“You say you don't care,
but you came to talk to me.”
------------------------------
“{CLOUD}…
You just want friends.”{NEW}
“Isn't that right?”
{CHOICE}Blow off
{CHOICE}I really don't care
------------------------------
“Yeah, well.
You look kind of lonely to me.”{NEW}
“If you ever got anything you want to
get off your chest,
you can always talk to me.”
------------------------------
“You're terrible.
Real cold-blooded.”
------------------------------
Jessie
“Oops…”{NEW}
“Hey, look at the news…
What a blast.”{NEW}
“Think it was all because of my bomb?
But all I really did was just make it
like the computer told me.”{NEW}
“Oh no!
I must've made a miscalculation somewhere.”
------------------------------
Jessie
“Hey, that was my first bomb.
Makes me kinda proud.”
------------------------------
Jessie
“Money…”{NEW}
“Oh my.
It must have been for a lot of it.”{NEW}
“Sure!
Well, what the hell? It's a verbal agreement.
Now let me figure this out.”
------------------------------
“Oh stop it, {CLOUD}!
Did you hear me?”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“…today the No.1 Reactor was bombed.
The terrorist group AVALANCHE has claimed
responsibility for the bombing.”
------------------------------
“It is expected that AVALANCHE will
continue its reign of terror.”
------------------------------
“But citizens of Midgar, there is no
need to fear.”{NEW}
“I have immediately mobilized SOLDIER to protect
our citizenry from this senseless violence.
Thank you and good night.”
------------------------------
Marlene
“Papa,
you're so great!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Shucks!!
…money…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Straighten things up
with everyone for me.”
------------------------------


New:
Code: [Select]
Avalanche Hideout
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Hey,{CLOUD}.
There's somethin' I wanted to ask ya.”{NEW}
“Was there anyone from Soldier
fighting us today?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Nope,none.
I'm absolutely sure.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Well,aren't you the confident one.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“If you lot had fought Soldier,
you wouldn't be alive right now.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Don't give me that crap,
just 'cause you were in Soldier!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“………”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yeah,you're strong.”{NEW}
“Maybe all them guys in Soldier are.”{NEW}
“But don't forget that you're meat
is hired by Avalanche now.”{NEW}
“Don't get no ideas
'bout sidin' with the Shin-Ra.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Siding with Shin-Ra?”{NEW}
“You asked me a question
and I answered it… that's all.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'm going up.
I want to talk about my reward.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Wait,{CLOUD}!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“{TIFA}!
Let him go!”{NEW}
“Looks like he still misses the Shin-Ra!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Shut up!”{NEW}
“I don't feel a damn thing
for Shin-Ra OR Soldier!”
------------------------------
“But don't get me wrong!”{NEW}
“I don't care about the Planet or
your Avalanche for that matter!”
------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------

------------------------------
Wedge
“You think I'm maybe too uptight?”
{CHOICE}Yeah…
{CHOICE}Nah…
------------------------------
“The next mission will be
to destroy Mako Reactor 5!!”{NEW}
“I'm so nervous my teeth are chattering,
and yet you're calm… like always,{CLOUD}.”{NEW}
“You never get nervous do you?
Or maybe you just can't feel anythin'?”{NEW}
“Heh,heh… nah,there's no way you're like that.”
------------------------------
“Well,it's cool. Don't worry about me.
My body doesn't give the impression,
but I'm a coward at heart.”
------------------------------
Wedge
“……{CLOUD}.”{NEW}
“You say you don't care,
but you're still listening to me.”
------------------------------
“{CLOUD}……
What you really want is friends…”{NEW}
“Right?”
{CHOICE}If you say so
{CHOICE}I am really not interested
------------------------------
“You just look kinda lonely…”{NEW}
“We're the same,
and I'm here if you need me,yeah?.”
------------------------------
“Man,you're cruel.
Cold to the bone.”
------------------------------
Jessie
“Oops…”{NEW}
“Here,look at the news…
What a blast.”{NEW}
“Was that really because of my bomb?
All I did was follow
instructions on the computer.”{NEW}
“No!
I wonder if I miscalculated something.”
------------------------------
Jessie
“Still,that was a great bomb.
Makes me kinda proud.”
------------------------------
Jessie
“Reward…”{NEW}
“Ah,I give up.
A lot of money was promised,I guess.”{NEW}
Yeah!
Well,why not? It was a verbal agreement too.
Now,I'd better figure this out.”
------------------------------
“Oh no,{CLOUD}!
I think he heard me.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“…The organisation known as Avalanche
has claimed responsibility for the
explosion at Mako Reactor 1.”
------------------------------
“According to their declaration,
Avalanche intends to continue its reign of terror.”
------------------------------
“However,citizens of Midgar,there is no
need to fear.”{NEW}
“We at the Shin-Ra company have mobilised Soldier
to protect all of you from this senseless violence.
In doing so……”
------------------------------
Marin
“Daddy,
you're so cool!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Shucks!!
…Your reward…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Please make up with everyone,okay?”
------------------------------
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-24 16:43:39
Chisa should be best since I think that is how she spells it in romaji. I'm pretty sure it's related to her, since she was in the same industry at the time and there's a comedic effect when thinking of a leaf of lettuce that can voice act, :D.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-24 16:47:25
I agree.  And thanks for the pointer.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-10-24 20:21:34
Totally [email protected]

“Yo, {CLOUD}!
   There's somethin' I wanna ask ya.”{NEW}

“Hey,{CLOUD}.
   There's somethin' I wanted to ask ya.”{NEW}

I am fine with this if you are trying to get away from what the japanese thought black people spoke like.

{CLOUD}
“None.
   I'm positive.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“You sound pretty sure.”

{CLOUD}
“Nope,none.
   I'm absolutely sure.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Well,aren't you the confident one.”

These ones I do not understand the need to change them. They mean exactly the same thing.

{BARRET}
“Don't go thinkin' you so bad jus' cuz
   you was in SOLDIER.”

Black thing again.

“Yeah,you're strong.”{NEW}
“Maybe all them guys in Soldier are.”{NEW}
“But don't forget that you're meat
   is hired by Avalanche now.”{NEW}
“Don't get no ideas
   'bout sidin' with the Shin-Ra.”

Meat? That doesnt even make sense. People do not talk like that. At the very least change You're to your.


{CLOUD}
“I'm going upstairs.
   I want to talk about my money.”

{CLOUD}
“I'm going up.
   I want to talk about my reward.”

Don't like this either. It is not a reward, it is payment for a job.

Ill look at the rest later.







Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: PitBrat on 2011-10-24 20:55:53
The line would make sense if it were something like "... you're meat hired by hired by Avalanche ..."
"Meat" means all muscle and no brains.

"Reward" brings to mind the moneys received by bounty hunters.  The posters always said something like $500 reward. . . Dead or alive.

Semantics are subjective.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-25 00:02:45
Meat does make sense, in the context of a man telling him he is "just a thing" for the organisation.  It is something that might be said to a c*ckey recruit.  It is not unlikely or impossible.

Quote
People do not talk like that.

Says who?  Who decides what a character might say or not?  The writer.

Quote
Don't like this either. It is not a reward, it is payment for a job.

I never realised you had a degree in Japanese...  However "Money" is not what it says.  If indeed "pay" is fine, then of course I will change that.

報酬 【ほうしゅう】 (n) remuneration; recompense; reward; toll;

Quote
Black thing again.

The racial element is not there, and the Japanese game makes no mention OR reference to black stereotypes.  In fact one of the major reasons we set out doing this is to remove the black stereotype... so if you think Mr T is gonna be staying, you are bound to be disappointed.

It was not the Japanese people who made Barrett sound like a black stereotype, it was Baskett.  Him Alone.  IT is not just poor judgement, it is racist, and I seldom use that word because it has been hijacked by the liberal elite to mean anything.


Lastly, that isn't final.  Over the course of the project small things are changed or updated.  But overall I am happy with how it is going. 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-10-25 00:17:10
If that is how you see it then fine, but don't try to tell everyone that you are not going for a literal translation. All I was trying to do is give constructive criticism for localization purposes. As for the Mr. T thing I would be happy if you got rid of that, and maybe his stupid arm waving too.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-25 00:19:19
There is nothing literal about what I have written.  A leader of a terrorist group may very well say "your meat is hired" if he is being derogatory. 

Nowhere do you see sentences like:

"Cloud, will you come over here we are starting this meeting"

I left some of what was in the original, but where the writer explicitly tells me to, I have to leave what he says.  Therefore

報酬 【ほうしゅう】 (n) remuneration; recompense; reward; toll;

There is no mention of "Pay" (yeah recompense could cover it, but there are probably far easier ways  Japanese person would tell you they meant pay or money)  but that is a small thing that can be looked at.   If it is acceptable, I will change it.

 I think you are nitpicking 1 or 2 things you personally don't like and projecting that onto the entire piece.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-10-25 00:30:36
You honestly believe people say that? Well ok... i suppose you are the expert. And yes I am nitpicking because the dialogue does not sound natural to my english speaking ears. As for the pay thing I am going from the context of what actually happens in the game. Cloud is hired to help bomb the reactor. He asks for his pay. I do not ask my boss for a reward each week for working.

Well apparently reward and pay are synonyms of each other for certain meanings, but people do not normally ask for a reward.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-25 00:33:22
The line would make sense if it were something like "... you're meat hired by Avalanche ..."

That sounds fine and I think works better.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-25 00:35:52
You honestly believe people say that? Well ok...

I haven't met a terrorist leader before, but I imagine that if they see you as nothing more than the job, they very well may refer to you as "meat" or expendable to the job.  Telling you that you are meat is telling you that you are there as cannon fodder and it gives that impression.  "skinny ass" doesn't, it comes across as a childish insult and has no deeper meaning.

Reward probably can be changed, and if so I am happy to change it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sl1982 on 2011-10-25 00:53:35
Actually ass has a more defined meaning in this case then meat (in my opinion).

eg. 'Your ass is mine', 'Your ass is working for avalanche now' etc

'Your meat is mine', 'Your meat is working for avalanche now' doesnt make sense in current english language. Take a look at both of these and tell me you can honestly understand what is going on without having prior knowledge of what is going on. Sure tacking the skinny part on to ass does make it a slight insult, but not much as you make it sound.

The only other thing i can think of is if you change the sentence to this. Then it might make sense.

“But don't forget that you're meat
   hired by Avalanche now.”

If you take out the is then it sounds like he is calling you meat. Makes the sentence more logical.

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-25 01:00:37
I agree and I have changed Reward to Pay.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-25 01:37:01
------------------------------
Jessie
“Pay…”{NEW}
“Ah,I give up.
   A lot of money was promised,I guess.”{NEW}
Yeah!
   Well,why not? It was a verbal agreement too.
   Now,I'd better figure this out.”
------------------------------
(“Oh no,it's {CLOUD}!
   I think he heard me.”)

< she is referring to cloud and is talking to herself.  That part always bugged me as making no sense.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Vgr on 2011-10-25 02:10:22
*cough* Maybe you should continue this on IRC? :roll: *cough*
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-25 02:39:32
*cough* nope :P  I am busy with this.  I took a small liberty with this one >
Quote
“Damn man!!
   Your face looks like a Chocobo's ass.
   Are you tired,pops?”{NEW}
“Well you can rest on
   the third floor if you like…”

Just an insult to how cloud looks tired.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2011-10-25 19:25:30
I agree with sl1987 Barret just does'nt sound like a mean big black man lol just sayin...he looks like hes more educated or somethin lol
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-25 20:18:36
And that is the point...  he is educated.  He is not a stereotypical black guy anymore.  He is not Mr T.  Sure he speaks slangy and aggressive but that does not mean he has to be dumb.  Are we really saying that if you are black you automatically have to be dumb?  Jus' ma fealins bro.

I don't understand it...  I know Mr T is a great guy (and he is educated too btw), I love him...  but Baskett made Barrett into Mr T and that isn't just wrong, it is unprofessional.

I have said from the beginning 1 of the MAJOR differences this localisation will have is that Barrett is not a stupid dumb black guy.

one other thing, I am very amused about here... is that I am ordinarily accused of being a racist...  being everything-o-phobic... and this must be the first time I have been attacked with the opposite argument LMAO
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: PitBrat on 2011-10-25 22:34:01
I always thought Barrett was Puerto Rican.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-26 11:04:41
I'm sorry about replying so late but I didn't see your pm until just now. Google has emails from qhimm marked as spam, for some reason. I marked it as not spam, so it shouldn't happen again. I never look at the forum links on top, either, :D. Since you have private messages blocked, I guess you want me to reply here?

I took 3 years of Japanese in high school, but I don't remember much of the kanji vocabulary. It's mostly from lack of exposure to it. I do remember all of my particles, katakana, hiragana, and some various other rules for conversations. My sensei said that once all of that was second nature, then a good dictionary and rote memorization was pretty much all you needed afterwards.

I don't have anything to do, so I can help. I'm pretty sure I can translate accurately.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-27 03:33:35
I have sent another PM, it should work now :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-27 21:43:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_XgFHRs96E

It is time we have a uniform language....  ENGLISH!  8-)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-28 17:19:43
Thanks for the chance, :D, and I'm sorry it didn't work out.

I started looking over the item names, like you asked, and just finished looking over the weapons.
Quote
Weapons:
Aerith:
Fairy Tale  > フェアリーテイル > Feari- Teiru > Fairy Tail (テール is Tale, so I'm pretty sure it's an intentional pun like in the Fairy Tail anime)
Wizer Staff  > ワイザーロッド > Waiza- Roddo > Weiser Rod or Wisdom Rod (weiser is german for wise)

Cloud:
Organics > オーガニクス > O-ganikusu > Ogre Snow > Snow Ogre (Nix was probably taken from Nix Olympica or Snow Olympics in Latin, most likely derives from "Frost Giant" which is part of the Norse creation myth)

Red XIII:
Hairpin > かんざし > Kanzashi > Kanzashi (it's a traditional Japanese hair ornament and hairpin by itself makes it lose meaning)

Tifa:
Work Glove > 軍手 > Gunte > Cotton Glove (Work Glove is better, since Gunte is a durable knitted work glove) (my stepfather used to own a pair for handling fresh aluminum casts since they're heat resistant)

Vincent:
Shortbarrel > ランダル > Randaru > Randall (third link is right, but it's probably directly from The Magnificent Seven)
Supershot ST/ High Blow ST > ハイブロウST > Haiburou ST > High Standard (another Steve McQueen gun, High Standard FLITE KING, it looks similar but the game's version has a custom grip, like a mossberg's)

Hope that helps, :D.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Thad on 2011-10-29 05:28:19
And that is the point...  he is educated.

Where was he educated?

Are we really saying that if you are black you automatically have to be dumb?

No.  But he grew up a poor coal miner, regardless of his race.  I'd expect him and Dyne to have a similar manner of speaking.

I don't understand it...  I know Mr T is a great guy (and he is educated too btw), I love him...  but Baskett made Barrett into Mr T and that isn't just wrong, it is unprofessional.

I'm not crazy about the way he talks in Baskett's translation either, but I hardly think HE'S the one who made him into Mr. T.  I mean, LOOK at the guy.

And aside from his physical appearance, he is most certainly an Angry Black Man.  That's got unfortunate connotations too -- of course, the difference between an Angry Black Man and a black man who happens to be angry is open to considerable interpretation.

I have said from the beginning 1 of the MAJOR differences this localisation will have is that Barrett is not a stupid dumb black guy.

I'm all for not having him talk like Mr. T or any other kind of stereotype, and he certainly shouldn't be stupid.  But "educated" might take it a bit too far.  Self-educated, maybe?  He strikes me as the sort of guy who's probably cracked a few philosophy books, studied a bit of history.  I imagine him throwing down Loveless after the first two pages, though.

Dunno.  Food for thought.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-29 15:42:52
Thank you!

Quote
Aerith:
Fairy Tale  > フェアリーテイル > Feari- Teiru > Fairy Tail (テール is Tale, so I'm pretty sure it's an intentional pun like in the Fairy Tail anime)
Wizer Staff  > ワイザーロッド > Waiza- Roddo > Weiser Rod or Wisdom Rod (weiser is german for wise)

Fairy Tail makes no sense, as tail is from an animal or something with a tail, whereas fairy tale is spelled differently.  Very unlikely tail.

Quote
Cloud:
Organics > オーガニクス > O-ganikusu > Ogre Snow > Snow Ogre (Nix was probably taken from Nix Olympica or Snow Olympics in Latin, most likely derives from "Frost Giant" which is part of the Norse creation myth)

If it was nix, it would still be ogrenix and not snow, since the mythology stays in tact.  I will look into nyx vs nix


Quote
Red XIII:
Hairpin > かんざし > Kanzashi > Kanzashi (it's a traditional Japanese hair ornament and hairpin by itself makes it lose meaning)

I will add that explanation but Hairpin is a better localisation.  In this case, hair Ornament is pretty unworkable.


Quote
Tifa:
Work Glove > 軍手 > Gunte > Cotton Glove (Work Glove is better, since Gunte is a durable knitted work glove) (my stepfather used to own a pair for handling fresh aluminum casts since they're heat resistant)

Maybe this needs changing... but work glove can be anything really...  that's the problem.


Vincent:
Shortbarrel > ランダル > Randaru > Randall (third link is right, but it's probably directly from The Magnificent Seven)
Supershot ST/ High Blow ST > ハイブロウST > Haiburou ST > High Standard (another Steve McQueen gun, High Standard FLITE KING, it looks similar but the game's version has a custom grip, like a mossberg's)

It does not say high standard though :P  It says Highbrow  8-)

As for Barrett, when I say educated I mean to a point.  I mean not a dumb ass.  I do not mean he is going to become kasparov.  I think what we have done already bears that out.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-29 18:43:52
I always thought that staff made the tail of the fairy. Fairies in Japan sometimes have tails, :P. Fairy Tale works fine, :D.

Yeah, that sword name seems to be a mystery. Ogre is interchangeable in Japan with Giant or Ogre or Demon in English. Ogrenics or Ogre Nix make the most sense to me. It could be "made from the body of an ogre", based on a misspelled pronunciation of 肉体, nikutai. The original incarnation of the weapon was only received from ogres. Simply "Ogre Killer", using Nix as "to cancel out". Nix as "Snow", since it's generally found on mountains or in snow villages. It could be Nyx for night/beauty, since they seem to put a lot of effort into making it look good when they give it the name.

Yeah, Highbrow ST is probably a name based on its coolness factor,  8). ST is probably Japanese shorthand for standard but not necessarily. The High Standard range of guns is probably where it got its name.

I have some more suggestions after researching the names up to Limit Breaks.
Quote
Other Names:
Knowlespole > ノルズポル > Noruzuporu > Knowlespol (pretty sure it's Irish) (dweller/dwellers by the knoll is knowles, and pol is a magnetic pole, the crater was discovered there by the Cetra)

Armors:
Shinra Alpha >  神羅甲型防具改 >  First Class Protector [lit. Shin-Ra First Class Protector Revised]
Shinra Beta> 神羅安式防具 > Common Protector [lit.  Shin-Ra Common (Cheap-Official) Protector]

Items:
Antarctic Wind > 南極の風 > Southern Gale [lit.  Antarctic Wind,  but stands for a strong cold gale]
M-Tentacles > モルボルの触手 > Morbol Tentacles [derives from morbo in latin for disease]
Super Sweeper >  超合金スイーパー > Ultra Metallic Sweeper [Sweeper is probably based on the main character in the City Hunter series, I think superalloy is used for hype, like mega super metallic figure]

Chocobo Food:
Curiel/Kurie Greens > クリーエの野菜 > Kurie > Curly Greens [curly lettuce]
Krakka/Karaka Greens > カラッカの野菜 > Caraca Greens [a type of carrot]
Luchile/Ruchin Nut >  ルチルの実 > Rutile Nut [in addition to Rutile, it could also be Ruchiru for a cutesy nut name based on the jewelry or a girl]
Mimett/Memmet/Memit/Mimmet/Samolen Greens > ミメットの野菜 > Minetto Greens [a type of lettuce]
Pahsana/Pasana Greens > パサーナの野菜 > Pashana Greens [pashanabheda, healing herb]
Pram/Param Nut > パラムの実 > Plum Nut [direct katakana transliteration of plum]
Reagan/Regan Greens > レイゲンの野菜 > 霊験の野菜 > Miracle Greens
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-29 22:59:10
Quote
Knowlespole > ノルズポル > Noruzuporu > Knowlespol (pretty sure it's Irish) (dweller/dwellers by the knoll is knowles, and pol is a magnetic pole, the crater was discovered there by the Cetra)

The Kana doesn't match at all....?  Any source to show same kana with name?

Quote
Armors:
Shinra Alpha >  神羅甲型防具改 >  First Class Protector [lit. Shin-Ra First Class Protector Revised]
Shinra Beta> 神羅安式防具 > Common Protector [lit.  Shin-Ra Common (Cheap-Official) Protector]

Space is limited so had to go with Cheap and Revised.  Revised is literal too.

Quote
Items:
Antarctic Wind > 南極の風 > Southern Gale [lit.  Antarctic Wind,  but stands for a strong cold gale]

lit. Southern polar wind.  I am not sure if Gale has other kanji.  One for luksy.


Quote
M-Tentacles > モルボルの触手 > Morbol Tentacles [derives from morbo in latin for disease]

Well you may have finally sussed where that comes from...   originally from latin: morbus : sickness, disease, illness.   It could still be morbor though.... Morbo is also directly used in Italian and Spanish.

Quote
Chocobo Food:
Curiel/Kurie Greens > クリーエの野菜 > Kurie > Curly Greens [curly lettuce]

Kana does not match....

Quote
Krakka/Karaka Greens > カラッカの野菜 > Caraca Greens [a type of carrot]

I'd  think Karaka tree is much more likely (like carob tree)...  however if true it could be caraca assuming sound is same.  Will see what luksy says.

Quote
Mimett/Memmet/Memit/Mimmet/Samolen Greens > ミメットの野菜 > Minetto Greens [a type of lettuce]

I will pass that to luksy, but given we had rutile, I thought it would be plausible for Mimetite as the kana is a dead match also.

Quote
Pahsana/Pasana Greens > パサーナの野菜 > Pashana Greens [pashanabheda, healing herb]

Cool.  I will use that, we have nothing else to go on and sounds plausible.

Quote
Pram/Param Nut > パラムの実 > Plum Nut [direct katakana transliteration of plum]

All the dictionaries I have do not allow for plum however, luksy is better qualified to say on this...

Quote
Reagan/Regan Greens > レイゲンの野菜 > 霊験の野菜 > Miracle Greens

Another for luksy.  Looks like you are right though!  And I am not sure how I missed that....

Thanks again!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2011-10-30 07:16:55
Quote
Knowlespole > ノルズポル > Noruzuporu > Knowlespol (pretty sure it's Irish) (dweller/dwellers by the knoll is knowles, and pol is a magnetic pole, the crater was discovered there by the Cetra)

Personally i find the explanation that it's just a variation on ノルスポル far more simple.

Quote
Antarctic Wind > 南極の風 > Southern Gale [lit.  Antarctic Wind,  but stands for a strong cold gale]
Again the easiest explanation is 南極 Antartica 風 wind, there are plenty of more obvious ways to write "cold wind" 冷風, 寒風 etc.

Quote
M-Tentacles > モルボルの触手 > Morbol Tentacles [derives from morbo in latin for disease]
Plausible, although the final ル is odd in that case, imho I think it's onomatopoeia, or possibly based on something like 漏る放る

Quote
Super Sweeper >  超合金スイーパー > Ultra Metallic Sweeper [Sweeper is probably based on the main character in the City Hunter series, I think superalloy is used for hype, like mega super
It's a nod to Chogokin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chogokin) figures.

Quote
Curiel/Kurie Greens > クリーエの野菜 > Kurie > Curly Greens [curly lettuce]
I would have though curly would have just been カーリー

Quote
Mimett/Memmet/Memit/Mimmet/Samolen Greens > ミメットの野菜 > Minetto Greens [a type of lettuce]
ルチル and ミメット are both minerals, I don't think it's a coincidence.

Quote
Pram/Param Nut > パラムの実 > Plum Nut [direct katakana transliteration of plum]
プラム is plum, although I suppose it could be a deliberate change.

Quote
Reagan/Regan Greens > レイゲンの野菜 > 霊験の野菜 > Miracle Greens
agree 100%
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-30 07:24:23
The only change which needs making is "Miracle Greens".  The possible origin of Morbor will be added.

I will look into nix and fairy tail and work glove.

Some important stuff raised there, including 1 major correction.  Thank you. Ragnarok is added to credits.  Don;t hesitate to bring anything else up, especially monster names marked in green or pink :)

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-30 13:07:06
Cool,  8).

Here's my reasoning for the origin of Knowlespole:

ノールズ is definitely Knolls, there's a Knolls Hotel transliterated into katakana like that. Pole also has an elongated o, ポール, whereas Pol is shortened to  ポル, since pol directly means either magnetic pole, electrical pole, or geography related (possibly landmark, or known location). The letters "or" are almost always converted as an elongated o sound. Porch, north, forth, horn, fork, etc. ズ is usually used for a S sound at the end of a word like Coors, doors, etc.

The direct word, as it is written in katakana, would definitely be Knolspol, but it doesn't make much sense since knol means turnip or bulge or workhorse, only in Dutch. I'm sure the original creator took "knowles", a common Celtic name, and dropped the elongated o sound to differentiate it from north when combining it with pol, a common Celtic word, to make Knowlespol. Knowlespol translates as something like "homeland of/at the knoll", lit. dwelling at a geographic knoll.

There's an even stronger link that it's Celtic since "Cetra" is based on a Celtic word, and their beliefs are based entirely on Celtic reconstructionist teachings. Being that some members of the Final Fantasy team were fans of Irish/Celtic words/songs, I'm pretty confident it's related.

Antarctic Wind:
Yeah, 風 was a weird choice considering the item is something like a windy ice grenade. Is it possible that the name was made to make it seem like a non-dangerous item for common use, like an air conditioner? Antipolar Wind might sound better. It gets rid of the "southern" meaning, but retains the meaning that it's a direct opposite of a pole and possibly conveys a utility feel to it.

The Chocobo Food names are fine. I have the feeling that some of the names might be combinations of popular dishes/vegetable names or taken out of a home remedy book. I would get partial matches to curry, soups, and salads when looking up the katakana/anglicized version on the Japanese version of Google or sketchy medical sites, :o. I just posted what came close, :D.

Sorry about the wall of text, :-X.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-30 15:44:32
Had they wanted pole, I am sure they would have just kept the correct kana (as it is from North Pole).  Pol seems to be what they were getting at.  I would have thought like luksy that it is just a rearrangement of the English North Pole, but perhaps Knoll's was intended?

Knowles also seems to be a stretch with the kana as it is... ノルズ

Knoll's / Knolls Pol matches though?

http://www.agoda.jp/north_america/united_states/omaha_ne/attractions/hotels_near_knolls_golf_course.html  Like that golf club.

or ノルズ原子力研究所    Knolls Atomic Power Laboratory

Knowle is a modern adaption of old English Knoll (little hill), and since the kana uses what looks like Knoll, I'd be inclined to believe they meant Knoll.  It isn't far off though!

ノールズ  is knowles...

To me Knoll's Pol (pole at the little hill) seems much more likely...
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-30 19:02:32
It could be knolls, but the northern continent seemed to only have one large knoll that Jenova hit. The german sites think that Knowledge was ripped in half for Knowlespole, for a place of knowledge. The Japanese sites that talk about the localized version leave it as Knowlespole or mention it's a bad katakana version of North Pole. It's a mystery wrapped in an enigma :/.

Edit:
Yeah, Knoll's Pol sounds good, too.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-30 19:11:39
Your idea of knoll may be spot on.  Knowles COULD be what they meant but given the kana it is more unlikely.  Knowles is a modern variation on knoll.  Given cetra are ancient, more fitting also to use knoll.

I have been looking around and a lot of places use noruzu to mean Knolls or Knoll's.  It fits and it makes sense. 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-30 19:35:59
I did some more digging, and "poll" can also be ポル. It means hole in Irish. Knollspoll or Knoll's Poll, a hill with a hole. Maybe?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-30 19:46:16
No it is definitely pol from pole... since the game tells you they were from that area :)  At least it makes it seem pretty clear they are from the polar region.

I will go back and examine that text.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-31 01:07:31
OK I think I have it now... http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/knoll

Quote
Middle English knol, from Old English cnoll; akin to Old Norse knollr mountaintop
First Known Use: before 12th century

and the promised land is where the cetra was going, which is where sephiroth was at the north polar region, a land full of Mako. Where is that?  It is on top of the great glacier.

This seems the likely origin of Knoll's Pol

Quote
"all that is left is to go north, the promised land waits for me over snowy fields"

Quote
“The outside is rich with Mako energy.
   The inside is a
   treasure trove of Materia. 
   This truly is the Promised Land.”

Quote
“At the end of their hard,
   long journey,it was said
   they would find the Promised Land
   and supreme happiness.”
Quote
“The first ones to discover
   the Planet's wound were the Cetra
   at Knoll's Pol.”

Quote
“Knoll's Pol refers to this area.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-10-31 17:39:43
Yeah, it's most likely Knoll's Pol, Knolls Pol, or Knollspol. It just strikes me as weird that Honeywood would directly translate it to Knowles.

Maybe he was looking at maps of Alaska/Antarctica or got it directly from Kazushige Nojima. I found a Cape Knowles on Antarctica, named after "Knowles, Paul H.", who seems to be a well known geologist. There's also a "Knowles Head" in Alaska. The katakana conversion usually elongates the o or adds a "ウ" for the 'w' in the name, however.

http://mapcarta.com/25618102
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Knowles

http://mapcarta.com/24078762

Funnily enough, the Japanese dictionary for relating English terms to Japanese left the original katakana spelling of Knowlespole alone.
http://rain.serio.jp/FFF/FF/VII/name.htm#field

I'll just leave it there since Knoll's Pol is fine, :D. I don't think there's anything else that can be dug up *_*.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-10-31 17:55:07
They don't correct mistakes at Square, they leave the mistakes in and actually make them  canon because they are afraid it will rock the apple cart.  As you can see they left Reno alone too... and Mideel.

Honeywood?  Baskett was the translator...  :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-11-01 12:31:42
Oops, yeah, Baskett. I'd just finished reading that article at 1up, heh.

I just wish I knew what the intention behind the name was, :/. It could be a made up word that just sounds like Knoll's Pol. Something like how Aerith's name was made, so we'd get Gnolspol,  :o.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-01 19:41:56
What about the monster names in green and pink?Any ideas?

For example Bagnadrana..

Rana is a frog species so I think that is right, but Bagnad?  What combinations can we have? 

Have a look into it for me :P

In fact let's look at monsters and likelihood:
=============


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Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-11-02 14:52:37
Heh, the first one is a tough one.

For Bagunadorana, it's probably a shortened combined form for "Buglike Dragon".

It's stats and abilities seem to mostly match a dragon's. Determining what な, or ナ, does is difficult, since it predicates two nouns and is, itself, ambiguous. Most likely it just means "Bugish Dragon/Buglike Dragon", using ナ as word glue to change bagu into an adjectival form as well as to indicate dragon was abbreviated, even though it's used for abbreviated verbs.

It could possibly have been used to indicate several meanings as a pun, though it usually needs a verb to indicate a negative connotation. "Not a buglike dragon";"Not a bug, not a dragon";"Buglike Dragon, isn't it?"; or maybe "Buglike Dragonlike name" with ナ standing place for 名.

I have to go rake the leaves,  :(, but I'll take a look at the others later,  8-).

Edit:
Screw the leaves for a bit, :D.

ババヴェラウミュ is another hard one. The katakana spelling is probably based on the pronunciation. I think the second word is possibly a Latin derivation from "velum", like velame, velamur, etc., that could mean some sort of covering. Something like "Crone's Hat"/"Crone's Veil" or "Witch's Hat"/"Witch's Veil".

It could be a messed up spelling for Blemmyae. Headless creatures with their eyes/mouth in the abdomen. "Crone Blemmyae"/"Witch Blemmyae". It's probably this, the myae is spelled with a Myu, and, if he didn't know the origin but knew the name, could possibly mistake the pronunciation to be Velammyae, replacing the 'b' with a 'v' sound.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-11-03 16:55:32
I think part of the trouble with the names is that the monsters are mutated forms of classical mythological monsters and animals because of Jenova. So they probably gave them mutated names based on the mutation.

キャッパワイヤ is probably Kappa Wire. Possibly a kappa mutated to hold electricity...

シェザーシザー is probably Caesar Scissors. Possibly a mutated form of the king crab.

チュースタンク might be 中枢 Tank for Backbone Tank. Seems likely since it looks like a seahorse. Might be an offspelling of Choose.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-03 17:02:06
No I don't think they are mutated... because the vast majority aren't :)  I think they are using mythology, names, or foreign languages we simply aren't able to find.

Kappa for example is a mythological monster with its own spelling.  That monster there comes out at cappa or cap...  unless the designer made a mistake of it...
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-11-04 16:36:35
It could be Caper Wire, since the body looks fruitish and it's the same color of the fruit of the Capparis spinosa. The vines even look a bit caper-like. The name could be used as a pun for copper wire. It's usually spelled with a Keya not a Kiya, but it's a minor difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capparis_spinosa_open_fruit.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PikiWiki_Israel_4364_capparis.jpg

The branches turn from reddish to green and have thorns.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-04 19:57:03
Kana doesn't match copper or caper.  They always use aa for -er.  I mean it could just mean cap. /cappa  or it might have meant kappa but  a big mistake....


Capparis spinosa  <  Sounds reasonable.  Although v unlikely... so obscure.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-11-04 22:29:04
Yeah, :/.

The kana doesn't match Cap either, as it usually ends in a プ. The Turk's Cap Lily doesn't look anything like it, since it's a flower, and mostly used for peaceful events.

It could be a mixed version of Cap and Caper.

キャッ is the ca- part of cap, but also a sound effect for laughing or shrieking "Kya~".
ッパー is the last -ppa part of caper, ケッパー.

Combining them, and dropping the r from Caper, would get you キャッパ for Cape or Capp.

But, キャッパ could be "Kyappa" named after the shrieking sound effect, aka Mandragora. Since there's already a Mandragora, maybe it was a well-liked candidate that was allowed into the game.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-04 22:30:11
Kyappa was mentioned by LUksy once but he had some reason against it... I will ask him :P
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-05 03:45:10
The Boss, character, goes back to Big Bro.

I am told by luksy it is more of a title for someone part of your group "brotherhood" in this context, and since he is supposed to be a camp cross dresser I think nothing really does the lit. "elder brother" as much justice as the original.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-11-05 18:05:51
I noticed that ボトムスウェル should be Bottom Swell. He's probably named after his main attack, since a swell is a wave that has no local origin. It's probably a variation on "ground swell".

フラワープラング is probably Flower Plunge. It usually ends in a ji, but it could be mistaken for sounding like "ung". It's pretty common, :D.

フォールランダ is Fall Rangda. The "Fall" part of the name could be a spelling of something else that looks like it has a similar pronunciation to "fall". "Foul", possibly, considering it's just four with an l added, on the surface. It's weird that it has four legs...

バジガンディ is probably Basilisk Gandhi, thanks to Gemini, :D. Baji are the first two symbols for basilisk, but could also stand for bhaji, so it seems like a pun.

ギロフェルゴ could be Guillofell Ghost. Sometimes ゴ is used as shorthand for ghost...

マゴグランガラン is possibly Grand Garan. Garan is a temple, but it's a temple or temple complex usually made of smaller temples like a Matryoshka doll has several smaller dolls in it.

グラシュトライク is definitely Gura Strike. シュト is used to shorten Suto to St, giving you Strike. グラ could be short for グラグラ for unstable. Or it could be short for ground.

ジェジュジェミ has to be Jeju Jaemi (제주 재미) or something close in Korean. It's a Korean-based phrase with all the j's (say that 3 times fast). Jeju is an island that's a top vacation spot in South Korea. Roughly translates as "Jeju Fun". Since it's found in Wutai, a vacation spot in FF7, it might be related.

ジェミニスミー is directly Geminis Me. I wonder if they were going for Geminice Me, like a pat on the back for making her, but didn't want it overly obvious.

ゲルシュメルゼ is probably right as Gel Schmelze.  ;D, Yellow Melt.

キュルビヌュ is strange. It sounds like an amalgation of Kill and Cube that rhymes with "killer bee". Nuu might be a sound effect... "Killuby ~Woo~"?

キュビルデュヌス is also weird, "Cubil Dunus".

Latin:
It looks like "Cubile duonus" in Latin, possibly. Cubile can mean "hive", and duonus is an old Latin form of bonus, which can mean "brave" or "of honor". Seems likely, since I can't find any other word for "Dunus".

Kanji:
Kyubiru could be on-yomi pronunciation of kyu-bi-ru. None of the combinations I made had any sense to me...

マドゥジュ seems to be Madhu Ju. Madhu can refer to the demon, but can also mean something honeyish or liquid-like, since it's a swamp creature. Possibly मधु जू. This one has me stumped.

マグナード is probably マグナー奴 for Magna Slave. He's weak to gravity, so it's likely that.

プドゥレア might be Latin for Pudor Rea combined as Pudorea. Pudor means "a sense of shame", or shyness, and rea is "guilty of". Possible, since it's in a shell...

リルフサック could be Lil 芙 Saccus for Lil Lotus Saccus. The first two symbols transcribe lil, lill, or rill. フ has to be an on-yomi spelling of a kanji symbol, and サック is based on sacc, a loanword that was taken from saccus in Latin.

ヴァギドポリス might be Vagido polis, Portuguese/Spanish for moans/wails and Latin for city (many). Those were the only two languages that vagido made sense.

ゼムゼレット - The Muselet fits very well, but probably isn't it. It's probably a shorthand form based on Simon the Zealot, Sim Zealot.

ゼネネ is tough. ネネ could be short for ねるねる, for slimy. Possibly Zenenet, Egyptian goddess of beer, but probably not. It could be a name based on "gene".
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-11-08 03:15:12
That's it, :D. All my best guesses.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Gemini on 2011-11-08 08:52:23
  • バジガンディ  Bajighandi.  Unlikely.  Unknown.  Ghandi seems fine?
Basilisk Gandhi, where Gandhi is this indian dish (the yellow/brown one):
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2669075852_dab0317982.jpg)
It's just a Basilisk colored like the dish itself, nothing really related to Mahatma Gandhi.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-08 15:36:51
 ;D  cool!

Info will added.  I will get back later with what I am altering from that list too.  Not much I am guessing but overall very worthwhile because we have already had a few corrections.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-08 16:20:44
Quote
I noticed that ボトムスウェル should be Bottom Swell. He's probably named after his main attack, since a swell is a wave that has no local origin. It's probably a variation on "ground swell".

It could be either...  Bottom Swell, Bottoms Well.  Well also hold water.  However, yours sounds a tad more realistic.

Quote
フラワープラング is probably Flower Plunge. It usually ends in a ji, but it could be mistaken for sounding like "ung". It's pretty common

I thought that at first but Luksy reminded me the kana is simply wrong here even if it is used sometimes elsewhere.  Maybe as you say it is a mistake....

Quote
フォールランダ is Fall Rangda. The "Fall" part of the name could be a spelling of something else that looks like it has a similar pronunciation to "fall". "Foul", possibly, considering it's just four with an l added, on the surface. It's weird that it has four legs...

Pretty sure the Fall part means autumn.  I forget which now, but there are animals/creatures named Fall.
Foul definitely not...  wrong kana.

Quote
バジガンディ is probably Basilisk Gandhi

Basigandhi is closer I think. But I will think about the full.

Quote
ギロフェルゴ could be Guillofell Ghost. Sometimes ゴ is used as shorthand for ghost...
One for Luksy.  Sounds unlikely?

Quote
マゴグランガラン is possibly Grand Garan. Garan is a temple, but it's a temple or temple complex usually made of smaller temples like a Matryoshka doll has several smaller dolls in it.

Definitely Gran with kana...  Garan or garang for rest.  Guess we will never know.

Quote
グラシュトライク is definitely Gura Strike. シュト is used to shorten Suto to St, giving you Strike. グラ could be short for グラグラ for unstable. Or it could be short for ground

Strike is different kana, and Gura is too far fetched.  Also this is a tricycle, so trike sounds much more logical.  It could just be a mispelling for Crash.

Quote
ジェジュジェミ has to be Jeju Jaemi (제주 재미) or something close in Korean. It's a Korean-based phrase with all the j's (say that 3 times fast). Jeju is an island that's a top vacation spot in South Korea. Roughly translates as "Jeju Fun". Since it's found in Wutai, a vacation spot in FF7, it might be related.

Will look into it.

Quote
ゲルシュメルゼ is probably right as Gel Schmelze.  ;D, Yellow Melt

and frozen and melting.

Quote
キュルビヌュ is strange. It sounds like an amalgation of Kill and Cube that rhymes with "killer bee". Nuu might be a sound effect... "Killuby ~Woo~"?

No idea...  we went with Curvinue,

Quote
マグナード is probably マグナー奴 for Magna Slave. He's weak to gravity, so it's likely that.

Again that is a stretch because the Japanese is different.  perhaps that is an origin, but Magna means great, so I would think that is the likely reason.

Quote
リルフサック could be Lil 芙 Saccus for Lil Lotus Saccus. The first two symbols transcribe lil, lill, or rill. フ has to be an on-yomi spelling of a kanji symbol, and サック is based on sacc, a loanword that was taken from saccus in Latin.

Will look into it, but Suck seems more more likely given it has a move called Blood suck.

Quote
ヴァギドポリス might be Vagido polis, Portuguese/Spanish for moans/wails and Latin for city (many). Those were the only two languages that vagido made sense.

Yup that is what I had down for this one from start... it does seem likely.

Quote
ゼネネ is tough. ネネ could be short for ねるねる, for slimy. Possibly Zenenet, Egyptian goddess of beer, but probably not. It could be a name based on "gene".

Yup, gene may be there....
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-08 16:21:38
Thanks for contributions and ideas.  A few corrections to add to the main document.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ragnarok2040 on 2011-11-09 20:18:30
No problem, :D. Hope I helped a bit.

グラ シュトライク - シュト and スト are both ways of converting "st" even though ストライク is the de facto spelling. They could have done it on purpose to emphasize something. I also found out that gura is another name for 迦羅求羅, for imaginary insects. Could be gura shoot trike...

http://nichiren.info/gosho/DifficultySustainingFaith.htm

キュルビヌュ - I have a feeling that it's cul venue in French. Informally it means "Luck coming" which is possible for a 6-sided die. Cul usually means the bottom part of something, however, and it's currently derogatory for "ass" in French, though that might not have been the case in the mid 1990's.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-09 21:35:40
I have updated the first page to better reflect credits.  From this point on, we will translate and localise based on maps and not the game order.  The excel database is now taken down, and will be used up to Wallmarket.

This is because map approach is much easier now with regards to touphScript and workload.  Excel was also more annoying to keep track of.

The progress report is as follows:

Total maps: 712 (inc world map dialogue)



So as you can see the majority to do are less than 4KB.  The 1-3 KB should not pose much issue.  1 of the over 12 KB's (Beginner Hall) has already been completed and added to completed list (above).

A realistic aim is 6 months.  The 1 KB ones could be done realistically 10 a day.  Meaning  22 days.  It is hard to say for sure, but it is doable in a reasonable time frame.

The other text is

kernel.bin,
kernel2.bin,
FF7.exe,
Scene.bin

All of these have been translated and updated.

As of today, Up to the train leaving District 7 has been done.


















Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: PitBrat on 2011-11-13 03:07:55
I noticed a strange comment by Cloud.
In Reactor 1 when Cloud, Jesse and Barret are in the elevator together, Cloud says "I just wanna get this job before the Roboguards get here."
Shouldn't there be an 'over' or 'done' in there?

The story flows so much better with the ReTranslation.
Now the conversations make sense and aren't so confused.
Before, I always had a feeling that I was missing parts of the conversation.
Now I realize it was just a poor translation.

Thanks!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-13 04:19:57
If I missed that, it has already been corrected :)  There will be a few niggles like that, especially until i get covarr to go through it for grammar and so forth.  I have gone over the start of the game again and made it a tad better too.

I do make big efforts to cut out most mistakes.  And yeah... there are tons of things like that.  For example, no one told Baskett that Seventh Heaven is a bar... so Tifa says she will fill the store with flowers.

original
{BARRET}
“Heh heh…”{NEW}
“You wanna see your baby?”
{CHOICE}My baby?
{CHOICE}Out of my way

{BARRET}
“Heh heh…”{NEW}
“You wanna see your childhood friend?”
{CHOICE}Childhood friend?
{CHOICE}Out of my way

===========

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: PitBrat on 2011-11-13 04:26:59
Wow... I always thought 'baby' was a teasing way of saying 'sweetheart.'
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-13 04:34:45
Yeah in fact that entire section , childhood friend is used for the nickname of cloud, because the "whole district"overhears his convo with Tifa.

But barrett's dialogue is exposition for we, the audience.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-21 01:44:04
I am pleased how this part went, both translation and localisation.  The thing to remember is that cloud's inner self is talking to him about the time he fell off the Nibl bridge. 

Compare the 2 scenes

Original:
Code: [Select]
church in the slums
------------------------------
{GRAY}…You all right?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{GRAY}…Can you hear me?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…Yeah…”
------------------------------
{GRAY}Back then…
I only got
scraped knees…{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…What do you mean by 'back then'?”
------------------------------
{GRAY}What about now?
Can you get up?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…What do you mean by 'back then'?
…What about now?”
------------------------------
{GRAY}…Don't worry about me.
Worry about yourself now.{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I'll try.”
------------------------------
{GRAY}…How about that?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{GRAY}Take it slow now.
Little by little……{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I know.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Hey…who are you?”
------------------------------
“Oh! It moved!”
------------------------------
“Whew…
What relief.”
------------------------------
“Hello, hello?”
------------------------------
“Hello, hello!”
------------------------------
“You okay?”
------------------------------
“You just fell from above.
You really gave me a scare.”
------------------------------
“This is a church in
the Sector 5 slums.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I came crashing down?”
------------------------------
“The roof and the flower bed
must have broken your fall.
You're lucky.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Flower bed…is this yours?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sorry about that.”
------------------------------
“That's all right.
The flowers here are quite resilient
because this is a sacred place.”
------------------------------
“They say grass and flowers
won't grow in Midgar.”{NEW}
“But for some reason, they
have no trouble blooming here.”
------------------------------
“I love it here.”
------------------------------
“So, we meet again.”
------------------------------
“Don't you remember me?”
{CHOICE}Yeah, I remember…
{CHOICE}Never saw you before
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Yeah, I remember…”
You were selling flowers
You're the slum drunk
------------------------------
“Oh! I'm so happy!”
------------------------------
“Excuse me, but you're really rude!”
------------------------------
“…I guess you don't remember.
You were walking in a daze.”
------------------------------
“Thanks for buying my flowers.”
------------------------------
“You didn't buy any flowers from me though.”
------------------------------
“But I forgive you,
because you bought flowers from me.”
------------------------------
“I don't remember a thing.”
------------------------------
“Well, that's okay.”
------------------------------
“Say, do you have any Materia?”
------------------------------
“Yes, some.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Nowadays you can find Materia anywhere.”
------------------------------
“But mine is special.
It's good for absolutely nothing.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…good for nothing?
You just don't know how to use it.”
------------------------------
“No, I do…
it just doesn't do anything.”{NEW}
“I feel safe just having it.
It was my mother's.”
------------------------------
“Say, I feel like talking.
Do you feel up to it?”{NEW}
“After all,
here we are meeting again.”
{CHOICE}I don't mind
{CHOICE}Got nothing to talk about
------------------------------
“Wait here.
I've got to check my flowers.
It'll just be a minute.”
------------------------------
“…Oh, I see.”
------------------------------
“Ahhh. I wonder whose fault that is.
It's not easy to grow them, you know.
Poor flowers.”
------------------------------
“Just a little longer.”
------------------------------
“Oh!”
------------------------------
“Now that you mention it…”
------------------------------
“We don't know each other's names, do we?”
------------------------------
“My name is…”
------------------------------
“I'm {AERIS}, the flower girl.
Nice to meet you.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“The name's {CLOUD}.”{NEW}
“Me?
I do a little bit of everything.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Oh…a jack of all trades.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Yeah, I do whatever's needed.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“What's so funny?
What are you laughing at?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Sorry, I just…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“{CLOUD}!
Don't let it get to you!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Sorry, bad timing on my part.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Say, {CLOUD}.
Have you ever been a bodyguard?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“You CAN do anything, right?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Yeah, that's right.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Then, get me out of here.
Take me home.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“OK…
but it'll cost you.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“OK then, let's see…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“How about
if I go out with you once?”
------------------------------
“Don't mind me.”
------------------------------
“I'll give you a little more time.”
------------------------------
Reno
“They were…Mako eyes.”
------------------------------
Reno
“Yeah, all right.
C'mon, get to work.”
------------------------------
Reno
“Oh!”
------------------------------
Reno
“And don't step on the flowers…”
------------------------------
“You just stepped on them yourself!”
------------------------------
“They're ruined!”
------------------------------
“You're gonna catch holy hell!”
------------------------------


Trans:
Code: [Select]
Church in the Slums
------------------------------
{GRAY}…You all right?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{GRAY}…Can you hear me?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“……Yeah.”
------------------------------
{GRAY}Back then…
you got away with it.
Only scraped your knees…{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“……Back then?”
------------------------------
{GRAY}What about this time?
Do you think can you get up?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“……Back then?
……This time?”
------------------------------
{GRAY}You should be thinking
about your body for now.{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“……Let's give it a shot.”
------------------------------
{GRAY}…How do you feel?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{GRAY}Slowly now.
Little by little……{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…All right,I get it.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Hey…… who are you?”
------------------------------
“Oh! He moved!”
------------------------------
“Whew…
Thank heavens.”
------------------------------
“Hello?”
------------------------------
“Hellooooo!”
------------------------------
“Are you okay?”
------------------------------
“You fell straight out of the sky.
It gave me quite a scare.”
------------------------------
“This is a church in the slums.
District 5.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“……I fell?”
------------------------------
“The roof and the flower bed
must have broken your fall.
You're lucky.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Flower bed… is this yours?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sorry about that.”
------------------------------
“Oh,don't worry.
The flowers are quite resilient
and this place is special too.”
------------------------------
“In Midgar…
You know that grass and flowers hardly grow?”{NEW}
“Well here,they have no trouble blooming.”
------------------------------
“I like it here.”
------------------------------
“……We meet again.”
------------------------------
“…Don't you remember me?”
{CHOICE}(Yeah,I've met you before)
{CHOICE}(This is the first time we've met)
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Yeah,I remember.”
{CHOICE}You were selling flowers
{CHOICE}You're a slum drunk
------------------------------
“Oh! I'm so happy!”
------------------------------
“Well,you're rude!”
------------------------------
“…I guess you don't remember.
You did seem like you had
your head in the clouds.”
------------------------------
“Thanks for buying a flower back then.”
------------------------------
“But you didn't buy a flower did you?”
------------------------------
“Still,you bought a flower
from me so I'll forgive you.”
------------------------------
“I don't remember a thing.”
------------------------------
“Well,it's okay.”
------------------------------
“You have some Materia,don't you?”
------------------------------
“I have one too.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Materia isn't rare at all these days.”
------------------------------
“But mine is special.
It doesn't do anything.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…Doesn't do anythin'?
You sure you know how to use it?”
------------------------------
“It's not that…
I don't mind that it's useless.”{NEW}
“I feel safe when I wear it.
My mother left it to me……”
------------------------------
“Say,I feel like talking.
Do you feel up to it?”{NEW}
“After all,
we did meet again… right?”
{CHOICE}Sure,why not
{CHOICE}Got nothing to talk about
------------------------------
“Good,wait here.
I just have to tend to the flowers,
it won't take too long.”
------------------------------
“……I see.”
------------------------------
“Aaaah. I wonder whose fault this is?
They were growing so well too.
Poor flowers.”
------------------------------
“Just a little longer.”
------------------------------
“Oh!”
------------------------------
“Come to think of it…”
------------------------------
“We still don't know each other's names,do we?”
------------------------------
“I'm…”
------------------------------
“…the flower lady,{AERIS}.
Nice to meet you.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“The name's {CLOUD}.”{NEW}
“My job's...
Well,I do a bit of everythin'.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“So… a Jack of all trades.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I do what needs to be done.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“What's so funny!?
Why are you laughing?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“I'm sorry,it's just…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“{CLOUD}!
Don't let it get to you!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Sorry,this is bad timing.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Hey,{CLOUD}.
Does your job include
being a bodyguard?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“You're a Jack of all trades,right?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I suppose.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Then,get me out of here.
Take me home.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“All right,I accept…
But it won't come cheap.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Let's see then……”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“A date!”
------------------------------
“Don't mind me,yeh.”
------------------------------
“I'll give you a little more time,heh.”
------------------------------
Leno
“Did you see that?
That guy's eyes.
……Mako eyes.”
------------------------------
Leno
“Ah well.
C'mon,get to work,
get to work,eh.”
------------------------------
Leno
“And!”
------------------------------
Leno
“Don't trample on the flowers… yeh?”
------------------------------
“Mister Leno,you've just stepped on them!”
------------------------------
“The flowers are all crushed!”
------------------------------
“She's gonna go crazy!”
------------------------------

and

original:
Code: [Select]
{CLOUD}
“I don't know who you are, but…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“You don't know me…”
------------------------------
…I know you.
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Oh yeah…I know you.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“That uniform…”
------------------------------
“…Hey sis,
   this one's a little weird.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Shut up! Shinra spy!”
------------------------------
“Reno!
   Want him taken out?”
------------------------------
Reno
“I haven't decided yet.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Don't fight here!
   You'll ruin the flowers!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“The exit is back there.”


Trans:
Code: [Select]
{CLOUD}
“I don't know who you are
or where you're from,but…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“You don't…?”
------------------------------
……I think you do.
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Oh yeah…I do know you.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“That uniform's……”
------------------------------
“…Hey little lady,
this guy's a little weird,eh?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Shut up! Shin-Ra lapdog!”
------------------------------
“Mister Leno!
Should we do 'im in?”
------------------------------
Leno
“I haven't decided,yo.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“{CLOUD},no. Stop!
I don't want you all fighting here,
ruining my flowers!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“{CLOUD}!
The exit's back here.”
-

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Covarr on 2011-11-21 02:11:36
Quote
{CLOUD}
“……Let's give it a shot.”
Really? There's gotta be a better way to phrase this.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-21 02:16:49
Perhaps... but it is cloud talking to himself :P

"Let's give it a try"
etc
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Covarr on 2011-11-21 02:45:02
Except the context makes it pretty clear that Cloud has no clue that he's talking to himself. In fact, he asks "who are you?" before he's opened his eyes, and before Aerith speaks.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-21 02:48:47
He does know he is talking to someone who is trying to help him though.,  The lit. is "Let's give it a try".  It doesn't have to be that let's" means "the 2 of us"  it can be used just for 1 person talking to himself with another in the room.  He is being urged to see if he can move.

oh yeah, should note {CLOUD}
“……Let's give it a shot.”

edit:

I changed the line to "I'll give it a shot", but I do worry sometimes about being too obviously correct to every sentence.  People don't talk perfectly all the time.  In this case though perhaps clarity is more important.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Rheikon on 2011-11-21 21:20:37
"Let's give it a try." or "Let's give it a shot." makes sense to me, although "I'll give it a shot." is ok I suppose.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-21 21:29:41
yeah I think at end of the day sometimes, it is possible to over analyze it.  I do it too.. but people don;t always speak 100% perfect.  In his case though I don't see an issue clarifying it still further because it is a very complicated part of the game if you don't understand the story.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-22 01:47:42
I think I may place this ad back in.

Translated by Luksy, District 5 Slums

Quote
A fun drive with your girlfriend.
   ...at least it WAS,until...
   sudden engine trouble ruined your date!{NEW}
Has this ever happened to you?
   Well,now there's no need to worry!{NEW}
With the new model
   "Shin-Ra V-3000" engine,
   you can enjoy your car to its fullest! {H 2}

   
And now the news   

62 maps done, 499 to go.

These parts are used but you have to go to the TV at the right times.  Except the tyre one, which can never be seen thanks to mistake with the game progress var given at this point.  I will correct this.  Thanks Shademp.

Code: [Select]
------------------------------
“Presenting the new tyre…
"Pizza 2000"”{NEW}
“That's right,with "Pizza 2000",
everyone can improve
their driving experience!!”
------------------------------
“From can openers to Mako Reactors,
we at the Shin-Ra company provide
you with a true life of comfort.”
------------------------------
“…Continuing our report on today's events…{NEW}
“In spite of the worst accident in Midgar's history,
no civilian casualties have been reported.
Shin-Ra's city management staff are being
credited for their prompt response.”{NEW}
“The cause of the accident is still unknown,
however there are reports that a statement
has been made by the terrorist group Avalanche,
claiming responsibility…”
------------------------------
“Citizens,unite!
Under the Mako light!”{NEW}
“Power is truth,
Shin-Ra is the future!”{NEW}
“Obedience to the company,
the key to your happiness!”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-11-29 17:49:10
Still truckin'

Code: [Select]
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“What rank were you?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Rank?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“You know, in SOLDIER.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Oh, I was…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“First Class.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Just the same as him.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“The same as who?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“My first boyfriend.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Were you…serious?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“No. But I liked
him for a while.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I probably knew him.
What was his name?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“It doesn't
really matter.”
------------------------------

Trans.
Code: [Select]
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“What class were you?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Class?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Soldier class.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Oh,I was…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Class…
First class.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Hmm. The same.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“The same as who?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“First person I was really fond of.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…were you together?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“It wasn't like that…
I just thought he was kinda nice.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I might know him.
What's the guy's name?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“It doesn't matter anymore.”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-12-01 03:50:35
Almost ready now for M005 and up to wallmarket.  I will finish this off and await latest ts stable.  Then release it.

A few small things that need to be sorted first.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Thad on 2011-12-02 17:18:13
{CHOICE}You're a slum drunk

I think the original "the" works better than "a".  "Slum drunk" is like "town drunk", right?  As in, one specific and notorious person.

Also see multiple commas without spaces after them; assume that'll be changed in the final?

Other'n that not noticing anything I'd change.  So far so good.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-12-02 18:51:08
The commas are separated by the menu overhaul from values placed in window.bin.  Like : the space is automatically added :)  so don't worry.  Any commas that do have a space will be corrected by a text parser at the end.

And yeah, maybe "the" is correct in this case since he is being specific. 

At the end I go through it one more time, and Covarr also goes through it and gives any recommendations so this isn't 100% final.  Still, with people like you too it makes it all the better.

I am pretty happy with the job so far.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-12-14 04:44:57
I have finished reviewing recommendations and information on this thread.  The following are changed:

Bottoms Well > Bottom Swell [Ragnarok]

Bajighandi > Basigandhi [Gemini]

Hairpin > Kanzashi  [Ragnarok]

Ogrenyx > Ogrenix [dlpb/Ragnarok]

Pasahna Greens > Pashana Greens [Ragnarok]

Cappa Wire > Kyappa Wire [Luksy]

Sciessor Scissor > Schezar Scissor [Luksy]

Reigen Greens > Miracle Greens [Ragnarok]

Nolthpol > Knoll's Pol [Ragnarok/dlpb]


I have also changed Yuffie's "Lightning Speed" to something sounding a little better "Flash Lightning"


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-12-17 17:39:47
Ragnarok may also have been right about Semzealot.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaan  and Simon the Zealot

ゼムゼレット
zemuzeretto 

Semzealot.  I will go with this unless there is clear evidence to the contrary.  I am not confident of it...  but I am less confident of Zemzelett
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: KaOSoFt on 2011-12-22 21:25:37
I am pleased how this part went, both translation and localisation.  The thing to remember is that cloud's inner self is talking to him about the time he fell off the Nibl bridge. 

Compare the 2 scenes

Original:
Code: [Select]
church in the slums
------------------------------
{GRAY}What about now?
Can you get up?{GRAY}


Trans:
Code: [Select]
Church in the Slums
------------------------------
{GRAY}What about this time?
Do you think can you get up?{GRAY}
Hello there!

I’m not a native speaker, so I’m not really sure if I’m right with this, but that double question in the translation sounds really weird: “Do you think can you get up?”. Is this form alright?

Keep it up! I’m looking forward for the first release!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-12-22 21:27:51
Well spotted...  An error by me :)  Hence why the proof checker, Covarr, is needed at the end  8-)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Covarr on 2011-12-22 21:32:56
You didn't send me this scene yet, did you? I'd really hate to think I could've overlooked something like this. :/
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-12-22 21:40:20
No, you haven't had any of these yet.  Reason is I haven't decided to finalise any of em yet...  so it is tricky for me to send things which may again be altered... still, they are like... mostly done.  I guess the changes made now will be small.

I have no idea how I missed that tbh....   possibly when editing line by line and having to go back delete 1 word here and there to make it flow right.  Meh it happens.

edit, yeah I know where that went wrong.  I didn't like the sentence "Do you think you can get up?"  so I changed it but forgot to check over it.  Now it is {GRAY}What about this time?
Think you can get up?{GRAY}

------------------------------
{GRAY}What about this time?
Think you can get up?{GRAY}
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“……back then?
   ……this time?”
------------------------------
{GRAY}Worry about your body for now.{GRAY}
------------------------------
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2011-12-27 17:19:10
Translation has picked up speed and I am almost ready to release M005...  so might be soon now :)  Roughly 1/5 of the game is now localised.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-03 04:50:17
The game dialogue is now at the one quarter mark.  :)  25% done.
378 of 706 maps done.  See first post.

It will need a run through from me, and proof checking, but it is going to plan.  I will release it with next menu update which should be within 1 week.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Salk on 2012-01-03 07:09:51
Great new, DLPB!

Thanks for your hard work!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-03 07:23:13
Aye, I have just had a quick walk through the game, and some parts need minor alterations too due to context.  Very annoying really, can only feel for how Baskett was treated.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2012-01-04 16:45:02
Hmm not too sure if this makes sense at all
Barret talking to Cait Sith on disk 2 when trying to save Tifa:
Barret:
 "You damn cat!
    What the hell are you gonna do now?

    "They all be comiBarret
"Yo, bet  a

First the speech mark on the 1st sentence doesn't have an ending speech mark anywhere

and also the 3rd and 4th sentence is what confused me alot not sure if it's some spelling mistakes
"comiBarret"
"Yo, bet  a"
What is that meant to mean lol and on "Yo bet  a  doesn't also have an ending speech mark and "a" has 2 spaces forward

Edit:
Uploaded some pics
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7536/ff72012010319300007.png)
By joyrul (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/joyrul) at 2012-01-04
(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/3015/ff72012010319295273.png)
By joyrul (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/joyrul) at 2012-01-04
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-04 16:50:31
I havent touched that dialogue in the release yet.  Nothing has been released much in R001.  We are 25% way through but you are using the installer.  The dialogue you mention is the original. Not ours :)

Actually, I am thinking that dialogue has been ruined by Touphscript.  I will tell luksy.

Remember that the installer you are using is from when the game was like 2% completed, not 25%  If you look at the first page you can see that over half the maps have not been translated even now.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2012-01-04 16:54:32
Ah ok i found many more weird stuff like that elsewhere but lost it. meh I'll live with that.
So will the more updated retranslation be included in m005?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-04 17:05:33
Yeah, the M005 will have the second revision of the translation project which will be 25-30% of the game.

Airport
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo! You sure this' the right way?
   It's a dead end!”
------------------------------
{CAIT SITH}
“Huh?
   Did ah make a wrong turn?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“You idiot!
   What the hell're we gonna do now?
   They'll be stompin' at us any minute!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Watch my back to the very end… partner!”
------------------------------

That is the translated one.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2012-01-04 17:15:01
Much much better thanks, can't wait  ;D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-04 17:23:33
Problem with translation is that it isnt always in order so it is rather futile playing whole game until it is 100%, still, I guess it is virtually complete to past wallmarket anyway with new installer.

Also no point mentioning spelling mistakes until it is decalared 100% finished... because I will have run through it again and so will Covarr.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-04 18:28:55
Another comparison shows how the original trans was lacking:

Original

Code: [Select]
Barracks
------------------------------
Shinra Manager
“This is so embarassing!”{NEW}
“…and they told me I would be staying
at five star hotels on these trips…”
------------------------------
Shinra Manager
“How can you guys sleep
in a place like this?”
------------------------------
Shinra Manager
“I only came to help transport
the Sister Ray from Junon…”{NEW}
“But now the company says don't
bother coming back…”{NEW}
“Is this what happens to a loyal Shinra man?”
------------------------------
Shinra Manager
“Hee Haaaw…”{NEW}
“If Weapon killed all the upper management…
then I'll be President!!”
------------------------------
Received "1/35 Soldier"!
------------------------------

trans
Code: [Select]
Barracks
------------------------------
Shin-Ra Manager
“This is inexcusable!”{NEW}
“And they told me I'd be
staying at luxury hotels…”
------------------------------
Shin-Ra Manager
“How can you guys sleep
in a place like this?”
------------------------------
Sidelined Shin-Ra Manager
“Being sent to handle the Junon
Sister Ray cannon was all right…”{NEW}
“But now the company says
don't bother coming back…”{NEW}
“What's a life-long Shin-Ra
employee like me to do now…?”
------------------------------
Burnt-out Shin-Ra Manager
“Hee,hee,heh,heh…”{NEW}
“If Weapon takes out the top brass…
I'll become President…!!”
------------------------------
Obtained "1:35 Soldier"!
------------------------------


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Bosola on 2012-01-04 19:08:34
You're right - the original translation completely ruined the tenor of those lines.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-04 19:33:45
It is kinda same here, where the philosophical side was lost:

orig
Code: [Select]
Junon Dock
------------------------------
“Everyday there's no ship coming in,
I always come here
to watch the sun go down.”
------------------------------
“The sun disappears like it's
being swallowed up
by the big horizon.”{NEW}
“And somewhere out there is
a big unknown continent
with another port city.”{NEW}
“Twilight always gets me misty…”{NEW}
“I'm so glad I became a seaman.”
------------------------------
“I haven't had a girlfriend in 18 years.
And I'm a romantic! …geez.”
------------------------------
“Well…I wouldn't have time
for one now anyway
because of Weapon…”
------------------------------

trans
Code: [Select]
Junon Harbour
------------------------------
“On days when there's no ships in port,
I always come here to watch the sunset.”
------------------------------
“The sun disappears like it's
being engulfed by the ocean.”{NEW}
“And somewhere beyond,
there's an unknown continent,
with a port town of its own.”{NEW}
“Such thoughts consume me
during twilight's like these…”{NEW}
“I'm so glad I became a seaman.”
------------------------------
“This year is my eighteenth without a partner…
To think… a romantic like me should suffer that.”
------------------------------
“Ahh,well!
What with the Weapon debacle,
it's not really the right time anyway.”
------------------------------

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-05 14:10:41
Another dialogue was kinda ruined where Barrett uses same line from start of the game:

orig
Code: [Select]
Inside Submarine
------------------------------
“You want the Sub?
 Just try an' take it!”
------------------------------
“Um… sir!
Maybe we shouldn't piss them off…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Come on,{CLOUD}!
Follow me!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Damn,man!!
…What the?”{NEW}
“Hey yo!
Remember I was the leader first,man!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo! We come a long ways
since we got on this train!”{NEW}
“Lotsa things changed!
This and that.”
------------------------------
[Save Point]
Access the menu and select
{PURPLE}[SAVE]{WHITE} to save your game.
------------------------------



trans
Code: [Select]
Inside Submarine
------------------------------
“Want the sub?
You come and get it!”
------------------------------
“Umm… sir!
Maybe tone it down a little…?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Let's go,{CLOUD}!
Follow me!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Damn,man!!
…what the?”{NEW}
“You remember me sayin' that?
I used to be the leader!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Ha! We've come a long way
since getting off that train!”{NEW}
“Lotsa things 'ave changed!
This,that an' everythin'.”
------------------------------
[Save Point]
Access the menu and select
{PURPLE}[SAVE]{WHITE} to save your game.
------------------------------

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-05 20:53:33
First major milestone completed:  half of dialogue maps completed.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-06 06:52:38
More translation failure:

orig
Code: [Select]
“That elevator back there is only
to transport Specimens.
You can't use it.
It would be a lot easier
if it led to the 68 Floor Research Lab.”

trans
Code: [Select]
“That elevator back there is
used only to transport specimens.
It's out of bounds.” {NEW}
“A shame too,'cause it's connected to
        the research room on floor 68.”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-08 14:43:20
Also can I make it clear to those who keep pestering me elsewhere (usually msn), that the installer allows full option to use canon names. 

In the next installer I will allow options:

 "Name canon" which is basically character names as FF7 original had them (minus Aeris).

"Place canon"  place names will be kept as original game.  Thus the totally wrong "Mideel" will be kept.

"item canon"  those localised items/weapons/magics that ALWAYS appear same will be kept same.  Hence Last Elixir > Megalixir.

The vast majority of things will be corrected.  Only those that have formed a strong canon will be
exempt with this option.  It is thanks to touphScript and text parsing that this is possible.

These 3 are the only concessions I will make.  If I start adding options for everything people don't like because
of dated nostalgia, we will not ever finish.  I have read about too, and people seem to think you are stuck with the
corrected names.  You aren't.  You are given an option at install time.

This project is not gung ho.  It is not at all badly localised, as the above extracts show and it is not "literal".

I really cannot fathom why anyone would go into a retranslation mod and want to keep inaccurate things from the earlier release, but then I also cannot understand why Square saw fit to build its canon around mistakes made by 1 lone localiser.

Thank you.



Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Bosola on 2012-01-08 15:36:52
In an *ideal* world we'd write our retranslation texts in an XML format, and tag groups of changes that a user could enable / disable at 'compile' time - the 'compiler' in this case being a tool to mass reinsert strings into our LGP files (and, in the case of the PSX, update the ISO's LBA+Filesize lookup records accordingly).

But that would take an awful long time, and besides, the idea of seeking a literal translation, but with arbitrary omissions, seems a pretty strange and contradictory attitude.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-08 16:00:51
Well there is no literal translation, only the places and names are absolutes.  Dialogue is completely different and lots of freedom.  But if someone calls their character Leno... then that is its name.  Still, since so many people have an issue with this, I have allowed the non dialogue aspects a degree of leniency.  In an ideal world people wouldn't embrace a set of mistakes... they'd actually want to play what the writers intended.

But really, on non dialogue issue, I can't see a problem with allowing 3 options.  That way everyone is happy.  Of course, gonna get people who want Mr T barrett and who don't liek scottish cait, but well... maybe I can't please everyone afterall :P
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Prince Lex on 2012-01-08 16:36:32
I'd like to add that I'm the one doing the "Scottish Cait" localisation (since I'm actually Scottish) so if anyone has a problem with that, please direct it to me.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-08 18:14:02
aye, and imho doing a very good job.  We have toned it down a little so most people can understand it too :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-09 16:32:19
Honeybee Manor is a b*tch.  Gonna need special attention.  We have corrected most of it but the context and localisation are a problem here.  I think doing a pretty good job though :)  Will get through it. 

For example, comparing:

Orig
Quote
“Fluff, fluff, fluff…”{NEW}
“(Hmm!
   I guess he doesn't realize his position.
   I feel sorry for him.
   Just ignore him, just ignore him.)”
------------------------------
“Pita, pita, pita…”{NEW}
“(God, what a pest!
   All right, get out of here!
   You dog…)”{NEW}
“(That's it, I'll name him 'pooch'.)”
------------------------------
“Mix, mix, mix……”{NEW}
“(What should I do?
   Is he following me? Really?
   What if he follows me home?)”{NEW}
“(Poochy'll do it, I'm sure of it…)”
------------------------------
“Shake, shake, shake…”{NEW}
“(You think he's after me? Really?
   This guy makes me sick…
   And his eyes are weird, too…)”{NEW}
“(Yeah, don't hurt these guys' feelings.
   Let's at least say 'hi' to him.)”
------------------------------
“Uhh…
   Hel…Hello.”{NEW}
“What a nice day, today.”
{CHOICE}Introduce yourself
{CHOICE}Say Goodbye
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“By the way, I haven't introduced
   myself yet.”{NEW}
“I'm {CLOUD}, a jack of all trades.”
------------------------------
“Oh, yeah…?
   Welcome, {CLOUD}.”{NEW}
“(Gross!  Don't get carried away,
   remember your name is 'Pooch!')”
------------------------------
“BYE!!
   (Phew…I'm safe now…)”
------------------------------
“Take care…{CLOUD}.”

trans
Quote
“Pad,pad,pad,pad…”{NEW}
“(Hmph!
   He clearly doesn't know his place.
   What a loser,gonna ignore him completely.)”
------------------------------
“Tap,tap,tap,tap…”{NEW}
“(Oh,what a pest!
   All right,get lost!
   You stray dog,you…)”{NEW}
“(That's right!
   I'll name him Pooch!)”
------------------------------
“Scratch,scratch,
   scratch,scratch…”{NEW}
“(What should I do…?
   He's stalking me,isn't he?
   What if he jumps on
   me on the way home?)”{NEW}
“(He will won't he?
   Being such a dog…)”
------------------------------
“Shake,shake,
   shake,shake…”{NEW}
“(Think he's after me?
   He makes me sick…
   And his eyes are weird,too.)”{NEW}
“(Ah,but you shouldn't
   hurt these kinda guys.
   I can at least say hello?)”
------------------------------
“Pooch…
   Hel… hello.”{NEW}
“Lovely weather today?”
{CHOICE}I'll introduce myself
{CHOICE}Goodbye
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“By the way,I haven't
   introduced myself yet.”{NEW}
“I'm {CLOUD},
   a jack of all trades.”
------------------------------
“Oh really….
   Welcome,{CLOUD}.”{NEW}
“(What the hell! Gettin' all c*cky…
   No wonder I named you Pooch!)”
------------------------------
“Bye bye!!
   (Phew…{PURPLE}♥{WHITE}
   Thank god for that…)”
------------------------------
“Farewell… {CLOUD}.”

Pooch is a localisation.  The Japanese uses Pochi which is a common name for a dog in Japan.


and 1 of the rooms, where president shinra is acting out one of his fantasies.

orig
Code: [Select]
------------------------------
…The wind's calm now…
------------------------------
 It's the curse of the resurrected Satan…
 Our beloved Queen does not awaken…
------------------------------
The time is ripe…
------------------------------
A legend has been passed on
   through generations…
------------------------------
…they sought the Promised Land…
------------------------------
…one with blue eyes…
------------------------------
…and a great white sword on his back…
------------------------------
…will not lead us to the Promised Land…
------------------------------
“Psst…
(Hey, shouldn't we stop him soon?)”
------------------------------
“…whisper…whisper…
(We have a luncheon
with President Shinra…)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(You tell him……)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(I can't tell him…)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(Come on!! Oh, well…)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(I'm so disgusted with the President.)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(This happens every time we
come to Midgar on business.)”{NEW}
“(We came all the way to Midgar,
just for this?)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(What're you complaining about?
You're just holding the lights.
I've gotta wear this heavy armor!)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(I know, I know…
but it's all part of the job.)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(Oh yeah, did you hear?
The President's wife found out
about this little hobby of his.)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(Ha, ha…no way,
I didn't know that.)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(Oh, looks like he's done.
Man, I'm glad!!)”
------------------------------
“Geez!! Mr. President!!
I mean, Your Majesty.”
------------------------------
“Ohhh…I'm sorry.
Please remove the ancient curse!”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(Oh man, not again!?)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(How many times IS this?)”
------------------------------
“Psst…
(I don't even know…
whew…the King sure gets into this…)”
------------------------------

trans
Code: [Select]
------------------------------
…{OK}the wind{OK} has ceased…
------------------------------
Is this the curse of the resurrected Devil King…?
Our most beloved Queen does not awaken…
------------------------------
The time is ripe…
------------------------------
…a legend handed down since ancient times…
------------------------------
…our destination,the Promised Land…
------------------------------
…the one with blue eyes…
------------------------------
…and a great unsheathed sword on his back…
------------------------------
…cannot lead us to the Promised Land…
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(Hey,if we don't stop this soon
we're gonna be in trouble.)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(We have an appointment
for lunch and he's here
pretending to be a King…)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(You tell him……)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(No way,I can't do that…)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(Psh!! Whatever…)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(I can't believe our boss sometimes.)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(This happens every time
we come to Midgar on business.
And we dragged ourselves all the
way from the Gold Saucer…)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(What are you complaining about?
You just have to handle the lights.
I have to wear this freakin' armour
and it weighs a ton!)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(Yeah…
but it's all part of the job.)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(Oh and did you hear?
About the his wife
finding out about all this?)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(Ha,ha…
No way,first I've heard of it!)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(Ah,looks like he's done.
Phew,thank god!!)”
------------------------------
“Urk!! Mr. President!!
I mean,Your Majesty…”
------------------------------
“Waaah,sooorry!
Spare me the ancient curse!”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(Oh man,not again!!)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(How many times is this now?)”
------------------------------
“Whisper…
(No idea….
Heh… 'His Majesty' sure does get into it.)”
------------------------------
-

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-11 15:42:50
I like this one... (and yeah I did go over the top slightly but so what?)

original
Code: [Select]
{VINCENT}
“{CLOUD}…take the ship to
the Northern Cave.”{NEW}
“The time for flying is now past.”{NEW}
“Our battlefield is now
beneath the earth…”{NEW}
“The gate to tomorrow is not
the light of heaven,
but the darkness of the depths of the earth.”

Trans project
Code: [Select]
{VINCENT}
“{CLOUD}…
take the ship to the Great Crater.”{NEW}
“The time for haste in the sky is well past.
Deep in the ground now lies our battlefield…”{NEW}
“It is not divine light,
but the darkness of the deep,
that will be our gateway to more tomorrows…”

more tomorrows may have to be changed to "to tomorrow"  depending on how it is meant, but I hope I don;t have to change that  ;D

amended:

Quote
{VINCENT}
“{CLOUD}…
   take our ship to the Great Crater.”{NEW}
“The time for flight is well past.
   Deep in the ground now lies our battlefield…”{NEW}
“It is not divine light,
   but the darkness of the deep,
   that will be our gateway to tomorrow…”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Salk on 2012-01-12 13:23:41

Code: [Select]
during twilight's like these…”{NEW}

twilight's?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-12 13:34:22
Quote
a. diffused light from the sky during the early evening or early morning when the sun is below the horizon and its light is refracted by the earth's atmosphere.

b. The time of the day when the sun is just below the horizon, especially the period between sunset and dark.

It is far more obvious in game when you see the colour.  (i think...)  though that should be twilights. no ' . (is that what you meant?)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-15 10:54:09
I have decided I am not pandering to people who want the original names places etc... they can do it themselves.  I was going to but I don't feel the need to spend more time on this just to make fanboys feel better.  There are only a few things different to established canon anyway, so they can change it in their own time.  The creators of FF7 decide what is what, not baskett or a few butthurt fanboys.

Option for american spellings and localisation is of course staying :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Michael on 2012-01-16 02:24:29
Really looking forward to the next release guys, looks great so far!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-20 10:36:34
Anybody Japanese speaker wanna help?  :P

So onto the questions I suppose. You may need the full japanese text found
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36889302/FF7/Japanese%20text.7z


onna_2
Quote
“Hmph!!
Listen,not that you care,
but you sure are annoying.
「フン……!!
 あなた、どうでもいいけど
 人を怒らせる才能あるかもよ」
Is this correct?



itmin1
Quote
“True,I'm a beautiful maid,
but I also buy and sell
accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You'll never be ashamed wearing these…
only goods of the finest quality here.
So,how about buying somethin'?”
「あたしゃ美人のメイドだけどね
 ないしょくで、アクセサリーの
 売り買いもしてるのさ」{NEW}
「どこ出したってはずかしくない
 極上の品ばっかだよ。
 どうだい、ひとつ?」

Whole passage up for consideration. Maid? Correct? and "you'll never be ashamed of wearing these" in particular.


mrkt3

Multiple passages, problem.

Quote
“What the hell!!?
Hey,you!! This ain't no show!!
I'm a little busy right now!!”{NEW}
“I feel it comin' on hard.
I reckon there's gonna be a fight!!”
「あんだよ!! てめー!!
 みせもんじゃねえぞ!!
 オレは、いまいそがしいんだよ!!」{NEW}
「ビンビンに感じてんだよ!!
 戦いの予感ってやつをよ!!」

Definite innuendo to erection but he doesn't seem to be doing anything, is he just telling you to mind your own business?... and there are no signs of a fight? Passage makes no sense as is.
These scenes are outside Honeybee Manor.

Quote
“Urrgh… this ain't gonna happen…
I can't go any further.”{NEW}
“Not with my rank and salary.
There's definitely a mismatch there.”
「くっ~~ どうしてもダメ……
 ここから先に進めないです」{NEW}
「ボクのレベルと給料じゃたりんです。
 身分がちがいすぎるです」

Soldier outside Manor.. He seems to have some issue entering, probably financial but it has been suggested that he may want to have affair and that is what is stopping him? Seems to me that it is just purely financial and that he is saying his salary should be better considering his rank?

Quote
“Heh,you're a fast one.
{TIFA}'s our latest sexy face.”{NEW}
「おっ、あなた、聞き耳はやいねえ。
 {TIFA}ちゃんは
 ムチムチの新人さんだよ」{NEW}

I said sexy face because I couldn't think of anything better with localisation. Any ideas?

ealin_12
Quote
Elmina
“…during the war.
My husband was sent to the front.
Some far away place called Wutai.”
エルミナ
「……戦争中でね。
 わたしの夫は戦地に行ってた。
 ウータイという遠い国さ」

Japanese says country? I thought Wutai was just a village or?

blin1
Quote
{BARRET}
“Son of a…!
Bastards have us
completely surrounded.”{NEW}
“If it were just me…
but I gotta reputation to keep.”
{BARRET}
「チッ……!
 すっかりかこまれてやがる」{NEW}
「オレひとりならともかく
 このメンツじゃ……」

"reputation to keep" originally something like "If it were just me, then...", what does he mean? That on his own he would just kill everyone? I don't quite get what he has in mind? I will localise this better when I know what he means.


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-01-22 17:43:17
I always assumed he meant he was going to kill them all. But at the same time it doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: PitBrat on 2012-01-22 17:47:20
Maybe if it were just him, he'd turn tail and run.
But, since he's not alone and his associates are there to witness his actions, he has to maintain his reputation as a tough guy and fight.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-22 17:48:35
I think you've nailed it.  Well done :)  That would fit the scene perfectly.  In fact I am almost 100% that is what he means.  Online translator has also just given me "Save face" for the japanese so yeah...  makes absolute sense.

so we now have:

{BARRET}
“Son of a…!
Bastards have us
completely surrounded.”{NEW}
“If I were alone,I could……
but I gotta reputation to keep.”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: hian on 2012-01-22 18:47:48
onna_2
「フン……!! あなた、どうでもいいけど、人を怒らせる才能あるかもよ」

"Hmph!! Listen, not that you care, but you sure are annoying."

I'd probably translate this somewhere along the lines of:
"Hmph!!(or "puh" or something to that effect) You - not that it matters, [but you look like you have](Alt. seem to have, might have) a talent for pissing people off(Alt. making people angry).

Your translation isn't necessarily wrong though, and might work just as well in getting the point across. Main issue has to do with the "どうでもいいけど"-part, which probably refers to the speakers feelings on the topic(that it isn't really an important issue, but she's going to say it anyways), not a remark on the listeners feelings on the topic.

itmin1
「あたしゃ美人のメイドだけどね
ないしょくで、アクセサリーの売り買いもしてるのさ」{NEW}
「どこ出したってはずかしくない極上の品ばっかだよ。どうだい、ひとつ?」

“True, I'm a beautiful maid, but I also buy and sell
accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You'll never be ashamed wearing these… only goods of the finest quality here. So, how about buying somethin'?”

Here I'd think I'd drop the "true" part, and rather go for something like "Even though I'm a [beautifull maid], I buy and sell accessories on the side, you know? " - Reason being the "だけどね", which to me seems to indicate that the speaker is trying to say that the accessory job is something she shouldn't have to do, or something she does but doesn't looking like she's doing because a beautiful girl like her obviously has better prospects.

I added the "you know?" because of the "のさ" at the end, which is basically a meaningless add-on, but still adds a certain flair to the original text that is missing in the translation. You could replace "you know?" with pretty much any English wishy-washy conversational filler though.

As for the "Beautiful Maid", there isn't much you can do with this one. It's correctly translated, but it just doesn't work well in English. It's just probably the girl expressing that she finds herself to be a beautiful woman, not "maid" in any literal sense of the word(maybe she's implying she's a beautifull and ladylike/young woman) - In that sense, it might actually be better to take some creative liscence and change it to "Beautiful young lady", or "beautiful lady", or something to that effect, simply because that makes more sense in English.

As for the final sentence, since I couldn't find any punctuation, I'm guessing one part is supposed to be read as "どこ出したってはずかしくない極上の品ばっかだよ", in which case the closest translation would be:

"We/I only have goods/items(this word is used often in FF, so why not keep it) of the finest quality that you wouldn't be embarrassed to take/wear anywhere. How about one?"

This of course is directly translated and doesn't sound that natural in English. Maybe you'd be better off dividing into two sentences?

My final suggestion would be something like this:
"Even though I'm a beautiful young lady, I buy and sell accessories on the side, you know? "
"We/I only have first-rate items here - You wouldn't be embarrassed wearing these anywhere! So, how about it? Wanna Buy something?"



mrkt3
Multiple passages, problem.
「あんだよ!! てめー!!
 みせもんじゃねえぞ!!
 オレは、いまいそがしいんだよ!!」{NEW}
「ビンビンに感じてんだよ!!
 戦いの予感ってやつをよ!!」

“What the hell!!?
Hey,you!! This ain't no show!!
I'm a little busy right now!!”{NEW}
“I feel it comin' on hard.
I reckon there's gonna be a fight!!”

Definite innuendo to erection but he doesn't seem to be doing anything, is he just telling you to mind your own business?... and there are no signs of a fight? Passage makes no sense as is.

"You!! what the hell!!"(this sentence order is more natural, this guy is speaking impolitely/yankee and therefore a lot of the word orders become reversed - "なんだよ!! てめー!!" is actually "てめー、なんだよ ")
"You! What the hell (are you doing)/(do you want!!)" might also be a good alternative.
Some people like to replace "てめー" with the term "bastard" or something to that effect, since "てめー" is basically the most impolite way you can say "you" in modern Japanese - Do with that as you will.

"This ain't no show!!"-part is pretty good. But the "もん", and the "じゃねえぞ" is a rude and direct way of saying it, so maybe it should be expressed "This ain't no god damn show!!", or be creative - "What the hell are you looking at me for?"

"I'm really busy!!"("leave me alone", or "you're being a bother" is probably the implication made by the use of the -んだよ in this case, and should be expressed if possible).

The last part should probably be read as:
戦いの予ってやつをビンビンに感じてんだよ

"I'm really feeling the premonition of battle here" - Is the direct translation - and I'm guessing it's refering to how he feels you talking to him is disturbing, he implying that he wants you to leave him alone or he's going to give you a beating.
How you want to express that in English though is a little beyond me.

My take on it:
"Chump! what the hell do you want??
This ain't no god damn show!!
I'm really busy, so scram!!
I sense you're provoking a fight here!

Or something to that effect.

These scenes are outside Honeybee Manor.
「くっ~~ どうしてもダメ……
 ここから先に進めないです」{NEW}
「ボクのレベルと給料じゃたりんです。
 身分がちがいすぎるです」

“Urrgh… this ain't gonna happen…
I can't go any further.”{NEW}
“Not with my rank and salary.
There's definitely a mismatch there.”

Soldier outside Manor.. He seems to have some issue entering, probably financial but it has been suggested that he may want to have affair and that is what is stopping him? Seems to me that it is just purely financial and that he is saying his salary should be better considering his rank?

This is largely correct - He's basically saying that he doesn't have the money or status is lacking, and comments on social status being too different - This seems to imply that he's probably got his eyes on this one girl, but doesn't have the money or power to acquire her.

"urrgh/ugh/uuuhh... No matter what(I try), this isn't working out.
I won't get any further with this -
Not someone of my level, with my salary....
Our paths(maybe a better word than "social positions") our just too different..."


「おっ、あなた、聞き耳はやいねえ。
{TIFA}ちゃんはムチムチの新人さんだよ」{NEW}

“Heh,you're a fast one.
{TIFA}'s our latest sexy face.”{NEW}
I said sexy face because I couldn't think of anything better with localisation. Any ideas?

"Oh, you're a fast one, aren't ya?
Tifa's our scrumptious newcomer"



ealin_12エルミナ
「……戦争中でね。
 わたしの夫は戦地に行ってた。
 ウータイという遠い国さ」

Elmina
“…during the war.
My husband was sent to the front.
Some far away place called Wutai.”

Japanese says country? I thought Wutai was just a village or?

This should be changed. It says 行ってた, which should be translated as "going" I.E The husband wasn't "sent" to the front, he "went" there. He might have been sent there for all I know, but this is certainly not implied. From the form, it might even be taken as he chose to go to the battleground.

I always got the impression that Wutai was supposed to be a country, or a land, rather than just refering to the village - but maybe that's just me. The Kanji is usually only used like this, when speaking of countries though - Except in a few instances, like in old Japan, where all the districts themselves were refered to as kuni. In any case, the use of the term "place" seems a good way to circumvent this issue.

I'd go with:

"...during the war -
My husband went to the front...
In some far away land/place called Wutai."



blin1{BARRET}
「チッ……!
 すっかりかこまれてやがる」{NEW}
「オレひとりならともかく
 このメンツじゃ……」

{BARRET}
“Son of a…!
Bastards have us
completely surrounded.”{NEW}
“If it were just me…
but I gotta reputation to keep.”

"reputation to keep" originally something like "If it were just me, then...", what does he mean? That on his own he would just kill everyone? I don't quite get what he has in mind? I will localise this better when I know what he means.

There are a few ways of interpreting this:
The term "mentsu" here refers to the concept of face or honour - One of the basic tenents of which is not to draw attention to oneself - So Barret might consider taking on everyone at once, but that would be flashy and therefore he would lose face.
This concept makes little to no sense to most foreigners, as we do not have a "face" culture in the same sense - So you'd probably be better of changing the sentence all together.

You could also take it to mean, that if he didn't have to watch out and protect the others, he could fight all out, or run away - But both of those options require him to not to care of the others, and thus lose him his face in a way that westerners could understand though.

I'd probably translate it something like this though:
"Tsk....
They've gone and got us all completely surrounded...
If it were just me... Anyways, at this rate...."


This way you sidestep the issue and still get the main point across.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-22 21:12:02
That's helped a lot, I can localise this properly now.  On Wutai, a license may be needed...  although you can "go" to the front, a westerner would always say they were sent.  If you are in an army it is automatically sent, you can't be a soldier and opt out...

The soldier outside the manor would reasonably be localised as "Spoiling for a rumble?"  or similar.  Cool how the original meaning completely changes with context....
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: hian on 2012-01-22 21:43:07
That's helped a lot, I can localise this properly now.  On Wutai, a license may be needed...  although you can "go" to the front, a westerner would always say they were sent.  If you are in an army it is automatically sent, you can't be a soldier and opt out...

The soldier outside the manor would reasonably be localised as "Spoiling for a rumble?"  or similar.

Yeah, I consider the first stranslation to be valid, but I couldn't remember whether the nature of the husbands position in soldier was ever clarified - I mean, unless different is stated, you could for instance intepret it as him signing on for the specific reason of going to Wutai.

In the Norwegian military for instance, going to Afghanistan is something you volunteer for, so I was probably unconsciously working from that perspective. In any case, it's a minor point - One or the other isn't going to make that much of a difference.

I'm glad I could provide some small help.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-01-23 15:36:11
OK, so here is what I have gone with:

Quote
Elmina
“…during the war.”{NEW}
“My husband was sent to the front.
   Some far away country called Wutai.”

[reason for sent, is next line tells audience he was home on leave.  Therefore he was in army.]

Quote
------------------------------
“Yo,chump!
   What's the idea!!?
   This ain't a god damn show!!
   I'm busy,so scram!!”{NEW}
“It's gettin' hard now y'know.
   You're just askin' for a punch!!”

I tried my best to include the double entendre by making it a reference to both erection and his fist getting hard to punch cloud (originally I dunno what the japanese is comparing hard with).  It is very difficult to work but that's my best shot.  Also "crusin' for a bruisin'"  may be preferred.
Quote
“Heh,you're a fast one.
   {TIFA}'s our sexy newcomer.”{NEW}

Quote
“Puh!!
   Listen,I couldn't care less,
   but you sure have a talent
   for annoying people.”

Quote
{BARRET}
“Son of a…!
   Bastards have us
   completely surrounded.”{NEW}
“If I were alone,I know what I'd do…
   but there's a reputation to keep.”

Quote
“True,I'm a fair maid,
   but don't let that fool ya.
   I buy and sell accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You'll never be ashamed wearing these!
   Only goods of the finest quality here.
   So,how about it? Wanna buy somethin'?”

She does have a strong woman kinda feel to her in other text too.


Quote
“Urrgh… this ain't gonna work…
   I'll never get anywhere like this.”{NEW}
“Not with my rank and salary.
   Heh… I'm not in her league.”





Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: teckgecko on 2012-01-23 22:33:16
Quote
but there's a reputation to keep.”
I think  “keep up (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/keep_up#Verb)” rather than just “keep” would be more accurate.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Thad on 2012-02-06 20:26:49
I really cannot fathom why anyone would go into a retranslation mod and want to keep inaccurate things from the earlier release, but then I also cannot understand why Square saw fit to build its canon around mistakes made by 1 lone localiser.

Part of it's probably force of habit -- I've got sense memory associated with "Megalixir" and if I'm frantically scrolling through a menu I won't be looking for "Last Elixir".  (Same problem when a game with Xbox controller layout tells me to press X -- I keep thinking X is either on top, as on the SNES, or bottom, as on PS.)  Course, I didn't like the -ra/-aga suffixes when they started using them in FF8 but I got used to them.

Part of it, too, is that some things don't quite work as translations.  Just what IS a Last Elixir, exactly?  What makes it the "last" one?  Best guess is it's intended as something like "Ultimate".  "Ultimate" and "Last" are technically synonymous, but "ultimate" has a different connotation.  (Which I assume is why the series is called "Final" Fantasy in the first place -- if it were called Ultimate Fantasy we would have been spared 20 years of stupid "How can it be FINAL when there are sequels?" jokes.)

And what's a Phoenix Tail?  I'm guessing it's not supposed to be a complete tail, just a tailfeather.  And while "down" is obviously not the same thing as a tailfeather, "tailfeather" or even just "feather" sure is a lot of characters, so I can see why Woolsey went for a shorter word.

Anyhow, moot point; you're the guy in charge and I'm not trying to change your mind or anything.  But those are the things that pop into my head as reasons I'd keep Square's existing canon.


And this is a month old so you've probably fixed it by now, but in case you missed it:

   (Oh and did you hear?
    About the his wife
    finding out about all this?)”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-06 21:44:11
Yeah the mistake in sentence has been fixed ages ago but nice spot.

As for tail, it works... down works just as well but simply isn't what is written.  They should have used kana.

Last elixir probably refers to it being special.  When you have 1 remaining of any item it becomes sought after.  It is what was intended and thus I use it.

In the final game I may allow those which have become series canon to be kept but this will only be for a few items (those 2 among them).

I am debating that but it will be the last thing I do.  When I venture onto a few forums and see the rabid clique nutcase fanboys, it kinda makes me want to refrain from options just to say up yours.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Iecerint on 2012-02-10 03:16:50
I've really enjoyed reading through some of the recent translations.  To be honest, I was a little anxious when I read through some of the very early dialogue choices, but some of the choices in the past page or so are inspired.

Hian's glosses on this page are particular impressive. O_O

One point I'd make is that I really like his "scrumptious newcomer" gloss for "muchimuchi."  I'm not an expert, but I think muchimuchi has a kind of "fleshy-sexy" connotation that I don't think "sexy" captures very well.  "Volumptuous" is closer in meaning, but probably even more off in tone (as the onomatopoeia is casual and kind of pervy).  As I understand it, it's onomatopoeia for sexy-type squishiness (e.g. of breasts).

I'll try helping out with a chunk of it if you still need some help.  My Japanese isn't great, but I spent some time in Japan and studied for a few years.

Excited to play through when it's all finished!  ;D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-10 03:31:58
Yeah well I have an open mind to that, so maybe it will get changed in the future :P

Glad you are liking it so far, and the earlier dialogue has been revisited anyway.  We will see how it goes.   Check back here from time to time  8-)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Idec Sdawkminn on 2012-02-17 08:50:58
Regarding this:

Quote
“True,I'm a fair maid,
   but don't let that fool ya.
   I buy and sell accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You'll never be ashamed wearing these!
   Only goods of the finest quality here.
   So,how about it? Wanna buy somethin'?”

Maybe maiden is what they were going for?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-18 03:04:11
Possibly, I'll look into it :)

In other news....  Gust is goin back to Gusto.  Gusto is very very likely to be correct.  For anyone not in the know, Gast Faremis is named after 2 restaurants / food places.  Faremis comes from an anagram of Famires (Family Restaurant), and Gusto from 

http://www.thefoodpursuit.com/cafe-restaurant-gusto-tokyo-japan/

Gast is a mistranslation.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: FlyingToast on 2012-02-25 21:34:32
blin1{BARRET}
「チッ……!
 すっかりかこまれてやがる」{NEW}
「オレひとりならともかく
 このメンツじゃ……」
actually "mentsu/メンツ" usually just means "group" but it CAN mean "face" but i doubt thats what Barrett is talking about here.
i think hes either talking about his group as in barrett, aeris, etc. or hes talking about the group outside(shinra soldiers).
i believe hes talking about his group which would be along the lines of
"if it was just myself, i could get by, but with the members of this group, i wont be able to protect all of you"

i would translate this as
"damn...!
 they have us completely surrounded"
"if it were just me...
 but seeing as we're in a group"

as for the other translations, i think its fine and it gets the point across. of course if u want a  REALLY DIRECT translation that would be something else... like for the maid

“True,I'm a beautiful maid,
but I also buy and sell
accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You'll never be ashamed wearing these…
only goods of the finest quality here.
So,how about buying somethin'?”

would REALLY be

“I'm a beautiful maid,
but I buy and sell
accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You wont  be ashamed wearing any of these anywhere…
only goods of the finest quality here.
So, how about it? would you like one?"

and imo thats just nitpicking :/

Source:Im Japanese
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: hian on 2012-02-26 06:30:26
blin1{BARRET}
「チッ……!
 すっかりかこまれてやがる」{NEW}
「オレひとりならともかく
 このメンツじゃ……」
actually "mentsu/メンツ" usually just means "group" but it CAN mean "face" but i doubt thats what Barrett is talking about here.
i think hes either talking about his group as in barrett, aeris, etc. or hes talking about the group outside(shinra soldiers).
i believe hes talking about his group which would be along the lines of
"if it was just myself, i could get by, but with the members of this group, i wont be able to protect all of you"

I would like to see a dictionairy reference to this, as I've never heard of the term mentsu being used that way.
A word that sounds similar that would be used in such a context is 人数, but that is clearly not the case.

as for the other translations, i think its fine and it gets the point across. of course if u want a  REALLY DIRECT translation that would be something else... like for the maid

There is no such thing as a "really direct" translation when dealing with two languages as different as Japanese and English, seeing as many of the concepts and terms don't have equals in the other language.
The fact of the matter is that you'll have to leave those parts to personal interpretation, or try your best to establish a similar term by playing around with words of similar meaning.

For examples, the translation you provide here:

“I'm a beautiful maid,
but I buy and sell
accessories on the side.”{NEW}
“You wont  be ashamed wearing any of these anywhere…
only goods of the finest quality here.
So, how about it? would you like one?"

which lacks expression for several parts of the dialogue - In particular:

"あたしゃ", "だけどね", "してるのさ", and "ばっか", which in total makes it quite different from the what it would actually have said
in Japanese if it was meant to be taken as straight forward as the way you translate it here - In which case it would probably look like this:

あたし/私は美人のメイドだけど、ないしょくで、アクセサリーの売り買いもしてるよ。
どこに顔を出してもはずかしくない極上の品ばっかりだよ。どう?ひとつは?

Simply saying that in translation work, there is no such thing as direct translation when dealing completely different langauges, especially if what is being expressed is expressed with area-specific dialects and/or sociolects, and entail terms expressing culture-specific phenomenon(which the part you highlighted does).

Source:Im Japanese

Do you have any schooling in Japanese or linguistics, or spendt any prolonged period in Japan?
Do you have any experience with translation?

Source: I live in Japan, my wife is Japanese, and I have a BA in East Asian studies. Cheers.

Possibly, I'll look into it :)

In other news....  Gust is goin back to Gusto.  Gusto is very very likely to be correct.  For anyone not in the know, Gast Faremis is named after 2 restaurants / food places.  Faremis comes from an anagram of Famires (Family Restaurant), and Gusto from 

http://www.thefoodpursuit.com/cafe-restaurant-gusto-tokyo-japan/

Gast is a mistranslation.

To be fair though, the restaurants name is written with the katakana ガスと, which in romaji spells out "GASUTO".
So I can see how that error might happen - Still we can't know for sure whether the creators where going for a name based on the Katakana reading of ガスと, rather than the western reading of it.

I'm all for Gusto though. It's not like it's a big change from Gast.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-26 06:54:29
Plus people have an option in installer to use the original incorrect names if it really bothers them.  As for Barrett, I think the consensus is he is referring to running away.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: hian on 2012-02-26 07:05:17
Plus people have an option in installer to use the original incorrect names if it really bothers them.  As for Barrett, I think the consensus is he is referring to running away.

There is no doubt about that. The doubt lies in how Barrett is himself, and his reasons for wanting to run away.

At the end of the day, it depends on how you want to portray Barretts character.
Personally, from my own experience with characters in Japanese media, I would say that Barrett is the sort of tough guy character - In that lies his use of the term "face"(as I exlained in my first post) - Instead of saying something like "I can't handle this, let's run away", he expresses it as "I could handle this, but because that would be "flashy"/uncool, I choose not to".
From the use of the term "mentsu" in this context, that is a perfectly valid interpretation, and one that stands well with Barretts persona.

Having Barrett blame his fellow characters, or something else for his inability to solve the situation, is "unbarrettlike".

In any case, my objection lies to intepreting "mentsu" as "group" - Which sounds like a mistranslation.
I don't mind the use of such a sentence though, since the end result doesn't change all that much.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Asa on 2012-02-26 14:24:51
メンツ (面子)
http://zokugo-dict.com/34me/ments.htm
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/218236/m0u/
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-26 14:30:26
ニッコリすれば面子を保てますよ。 You can save face with a happy smile

That is the usual interpretation.  To save face.  :)  It seems likely to me at least, that this is simply barrett saving face because he is a tough guy and doesnt want to be seen running.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: hian on 2012-02-27 01:10:29
ニッコリすれば面子を保てますよ。 You can save face with a happy smile

That is the usual interpretation.  To save face.  :)  It seems likely to me at least, that this is simply barrett saving face because he is a tough guy and doesnt want to be seen running.

Yep, that's exactly what I was saying. Which is why I object to the term "group". If someone is gonna "nit-pick" on the general translation, they should at least do it right.

メンツ (面子)
http://zokugo-dict.com/34me/ments.htm
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/218236/m0u/

Thanks a lot for chipping in.

But this still seems to confirm what I'm saying, namely that mentsu is not generally used to mean group, nor is it likely that this is the meaning barrett used it with.

The term mentsu, used to mean member, developed specifically from a mahjong expression. Not only that, the only example of usage provided(as opposed to the "face" definition, which has many), in both dictionairy entries, are specifically written in junction with the term ―が揃う, which to me seems odd. All examples I've seen, are usages specific to when members are lacking or the numbers of members are in question. Why would Barrett say he could have handled it alone, but because members are lacking he can't handle it?

Secondly, after a quick google of the term, it seems even several Japanese people are uncertain about the usage of the term, so it can hardly be a term of general usage(or a term with a consensus use). This makes it even less likely that the writers would have used it in this context.
Several people even said out flat on forums and similar, that the only times the term is validly used to mean member, is when either members are failing to turn up, or one is uncertain about the final line-up of members.

In either case, it's being branded by most as either a substandard term, or as a term only used in a specific context, which in either case does not make sense in the case of this piece of dialogue, since barrett is saying he would have managed it alone.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: FlyingToast on 2012-02-27 03:12:54
oh, i am SO sorry for trying to help! :]
pfft a dictionary reference. a word's definition is not what a damn book says, its what the people use it as.
of course you can learn a language through textbooks and dictionaries but when you communicate with actual native speakers, you should find that certain words, phrases, etc. are interpreted differently. this should be VERY obvious for any language.
oh but yes. i guess "members" was what i was shooting for. teehee

このメンツじゃ……」

its really mindboggling to me how farfetched it is to interpret this as saving face. hes literally saying "but with this face..." LOL WHAT?! WHO SAYS THAT?!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: hian on 2012-02-27 04:10:06
oh, i am SO sorry for trying to help! :]
pfft a dictionary reference. a word's definition is not what a damn book says, its what the people use it as.
of course you can learn a language through textbooks and dictionaries but when you communicate with actual native speakers, you should find that certain words, phrases, etc. are interpreted differently. this should be VERY obvious for any language.

A dictionairy definition is usually formed by general usage. When a certain usage is so minimal that it is hardly made notice of in any substantial way(especially granted the time that has passed since it was used), then it is usually substandard. FF7 is a game - A game meant to be played by many people. Having one of the main characters use a term in a way that most people would be incapable of getting is unlikely at best.

I asked for a reference because this is a thread dedicated to translation - If you're going to help out and provide alternative translations, it's only natural to do so through discussion, and by making proper references.

I learned my Japanese primarily from communicating with native speakers - this doesn't change the fact that translating works is different from just communicating in a language. You have to think about what the author was trying to say, and what way to best express that in the other language, while keeping it as close to the original meaning as possible.

In your case, you provided a translation, as I pointed out, lacked expression for several important parts of the sociolect used in the dialogue. That to me, subtracts from my image of your ability to translate.

このメンツじゃ……」

its really mindboggling to me how farfetched it is to interpret this as saving face. hes literally saying "but with this face..." LOL WHAT?! WHO SAYS THAT?!

No, that's not how you translate it, because "mentsu" does not actually mean "face" - It's a Japanese term describing a concept we in the west generally define with the word "face", and is more aptly translated as honour, reputation, etc.

The fact is that if we define it as group, barretts sentence makes little sense as is, since it either means he's downtalking his comrades(unlikely), or stating that the odds are too great(but then why would being alone help him?).

My post was not meant as an attack on you, but simply because I wanted verification to your translation appart from "I'm Japanese", because it differs largely from the consenus in this thread, and because I was unfamiliar with the usage. You did not provide verification, and have not provided any good reason why your alternative is more likely appart from a snide remarks, and a complete lack of respect for linguistics and translation work.

I doubt anyone here is against help, and it's certainly needed - But it's worth considering how you're offering it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-02-27 05:18:08
I tend to agree with FlyingToast, I had actually translated it as group / members initially, but after running it through Dan we decided to go with the face business. After going over it again it really does make more sense as "but what with this lineup...", I'll run it by a couple of friends just to be sure.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-27 08:49:48
Hmm  so we are still in the dark :P?

I and Hian seem to be going with

"If I were on my own, I'd....  but I gotta reputation to think of."

 and Luksy and Flyingtoast with "If I were on my own this'd be no problem, but with this lot..."

I have to lean strongly toward the 1st, that he wants to leg it but can't because he has to save honour/face.  But I am not Japanese speaker, so it is up to you people to iron it out hehe  8-)

The context, so you are all sure, is Barrett and his buddies are leaving the building when they notice they are completely surrounded.  He is talking to himself (I think), since you wouldn't use that sentence at someone.  My problem with the first is, it says "I am better alone".  Like Hian, I cannot see how that fits the scene at all.

How can he be better off without people helping him?

L.Spiro has voted for the second option.  So it is 3-2 against me and Hian. 3-1 in terms of japanese...

Quote
"If I were on my own, this'd be no prob!  But with these guys!"

edit:

and from L. spiros co-worker (native)

Quote
Damn, we seem to be surrounded by the enemies.  I alone could possibly handle the situation, but what can I do with these members?

4-2.  And I am being forced to change my vote....




Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-02-27 13:56:12
Ditto from a friend of mine "given the tone and the way he cuts off the phrase, he's talking about his friends/companions".
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-27 14:12:46
Looks like we have to bow to the majority, Hian :P  The large consensus is we are wrong.  I do think this needs looking at a bit more maybe, since all the dictionaries I use, mention the meaning to be "honour" and not group.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: FlyingToast on 2012-02-28 01:28:59
sorry, just get butthurt easily.
but i agree that these translations will be hard becuz it depends on how you portray each character and how they express their emotions/thoughts. so in reality, barrett could be saying a bunch of different things. should be better than the OG translations tho cuz sometimes i have no idea what theyre saying.

「オレひとりならともかく..
this phrase is blegh too imo cuz he doesnt really finish it so its up for whatever u want it to be.

any other quotes that we can argue over?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-02-28 02:10:37
Looks like we have to bow to the majority, Hian :P  The large consensus is we are wrong.  I do think this needs looking at a bit more maybe, since all the dictionaries I use, mention the meaning to be "honour" and not group.

There's plenty of other mahjong words (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E9%BA%BB%E9%9B%80%E7%94%A8%E8%AA%9E%E4%B8%80%E8%A6%A7#.E3.81.AF.E8.A1.8C) you wont find in most dictionaries.


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-28 06:22:08
How do you you people cope when there is such ambiguity in the language :P?  8-)

OK then, the final line is:

"sh*t! we're completely surrounded!{NEW}
   "If I were on my own,this'd be nothin'...."

That implies it and sounds natural to me.  And sounding natural is most important to me as
long as there is implication of the original meaning in these circumstances.

Other wise somethin' like

"sh*t! we're completely surrounded!{NEW}
   "If I were on my own, this'd be nothin'...   but what 'bout the others?"

Actually maybe second one works just as well.
========

@FlyingToast

Don't worry about it.  Fight your corner and if you are right you are right.  I am not here to do what I want.  I am here to do a good job of this.

haha we could also go with

Quote
"Bro!  We're surrounded! {NEW}
Without you niggaz, i'd waste these suckers!

 :-D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Asa on 2012-02-28 15:22:08
I can't speak English, but
オレひとりならともかく このメンツじゃ……
Actually, this phrase is not so important. When Japanese person read this sentence, most of Japanese never think that Brret thinks Aerith is cumbersome. Because another emotion is hiding in last "……". Check Kabuki term 腹芸 (hara-gei) if you don't know it.

Why Barret came here is to rescue Aerith. Barret cried when he has met Marlene at Aerith's house. What did he said when Cloud hesitated to climb the wall. The only one that Barret thinks is how to let Aerith get out from here, He will risks his life to save Aerith because she has saved Marlene. And it is not necessary to tell his determination to Aerith. But Aerith feels it and is also going to risk her life.
「……やっぱり、あなたたちだけ逃げて」
「あの人たちがねらっているのはわたし。あなたたちだけなら……」

Barret's purpose is Aerith, he wants to rescue her without even a scratch.  RedXIII is a new acquaintance, not well known. Furthermore Barret had looked RedXIII's weak side in the captivity room. This difficult situation made him say "このメンツじゃ".

If you want to express Japanese nuance, you must put those feelings into your translation.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-28 17:09:55
Your english is too poor to understand properly.  Send PM to Luksy or Hian in Japanese, they can understand exactly what you are meaning to say :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Iecerint on 2012-02-29 03:21:45
I'm pretty sure I understand him.  I'll elaborate.  It's all based on that last line.

It looks like Asa's emphasizing that the people with Barrett are Aerith and Red XIII.  Barrett only knows Aerith as someone who was captured (one boss fight aside).  He only knows Red XIII, similarly, as someone who had been captured before he helped him escape (i.e. by shooting the container he was in).  Tifa and Cloud, whose skills he trusts, are still elsewhere.

So, Asa interprets mentsu to mean "group" (which, as I've gathered, is in this context really a gaming metaphor being something like English "being dealt this hand"?) and he gives the context for why Barrett would appear to speak disparagingly (but not really) of his companions.  He still sees them as people who require saving/protection/sheltering from Shinra (not that he begrudges them that -- after all, past Barrett quotes have emphasized how much he feels he owes Aerith).

Side-Issue: Was a new version released?  I thought I saw that a new version was coming (005?), but I don't know if it was ever posted.  I get confused because there are something like 3 threads that all feature updates about this umbrella project....
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-02-29 11:56:11
Nah it hasn't been released yet all in good time and thanks for clearing that up :)  There are few ways to incorporate the exact feel of that sentence... if any.  Which is why we are left with:

"sh*t!  We're completely surrounded.  If I were on my own this'd be nothin'... but what about the others?..."
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Iecerint on 2012-02-29 15:20:05
Maybe make the last clause (kono mentsu) more reflective of concern than of holding him back, since the intended message (if Asa is correct) is that Aerith and Red XIII are first and foremost people Barrett wants to protect rather than fellow fighters.  The interpretation makes you wonder if the elevator boss was added late in development.

"Sh*t!  We're completely surrounded.  On my own, this'd be nothin'... but these guys...wonder if they'd make it...?"

EDIT: I did a quick search for the Mahjong term.  This is what it appears to mean specifically in that context, which is pretty clearly where the metaphor is drawn from (http://www.osamuko.com/2009/04/03/big-list-of-japanese-mahjong-terminology/):

mentsu -- meld -- [the term used here] "meld" comes from [the Western card game] rummy

A "meld" is when you have, say, 3 5s and may play them to earn points.  I'd never known the formal English term.  So the metaphor may be that the pair [Aerith/Red XIII] share a certain characteristic [needing protection].  It might make the gaming metaphor is little clearer, if it wasn't before.

I don't know if there's a way to work in a gaming metaphor without making the tone seem weird in English (this is probably a pretty casual expression in Japanese, but in English the equivalents will make him sound like Setzer), but it may be worth thinking about.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-02 16:59:26
I have had an idea....

Whilst playing FFX earlier I realised it uses normal subtitles.  What is stopping me making FF7 use the same kind of thing.  No boxes.

I think I can do it... and with luksy's help possibly even make part of it automated.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Bosola on 2012-03-02 17:22:30
Text legibility could be an issue. Do your glyphs have border lines?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Iecerint on 2012-03-02 17:25:04
I think having text boxes in different parts of the screen can be helpful when there's no voice-acting.  Similar to why comic books put text in boxes.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-02 17:33:04
It makes no difference really, in FFX a lot of characters have no voice acting, and it works fine.  As for legibility, yeah it works fine too :)

The problem with boxes is they look crap and getting text right in  them manually is  a nightmare.  We will see what happens, I will give it a try.

Yeah perhaps SOMETIMES it would be better to have the box near the person who is talking, but generally they make a movement anyway.  I guess I will just have to test it properly.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-02 18:57:42
Super quick test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9j6egqeCQU

I like it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Erzfreund on 2012-03-02 19:51:07
It looks surprisingly good and I guess problems with low contrast due to bright backgrounds can be solved.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Iecerint on 2012-03-02 20:56:32
It might be ideal if there were a widescreen effect so that the subtitles could go within the black bar...it would get around the contrast issue...
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-02 21:01:09
There will not be a widescreen simply because ff7 does not support it and likely never will... but it isnt needed.  Wasnt needed with X either :)

The only bad thing about subtitles is it moves your eyes away from the action on screen.  I may look into it further... may not :P
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: FlyingToast on 2012-03-03 02:41:58
but arent the blue dialogue boxes one of the most memorable features of FFVII as a game? D:
but yeah i agree, constantly looking at the bottom is kinda annoying.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Prince Lex on 2012-03-03 07:26:32
I like the subtitles to be honest. Also, I understood Asa.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-03 09:17:22
Yeah, I think I have to ditch the idea simply because it takes eyes from the action.  There is a charm about the boxes... 

Maybe I can come up with some sort of parser than can automatically arrange the text for me... it would be hard for sure...

manually doing these boxes is a killer.

Maybe someone else will use my idea in the future :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: UGerstl on 2012-03-03 10:06:04
Hi DLPB,

which Cloud model are you using in your movie ?
Did i miss something ?

The sound and the subtitles fit well together.  ;)
I get a feeling like watching a heroic movie.
And Cloud with his roman armor completes the cinematic scene.

Super quick test

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9j6egqeCQU

I like it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-03 10:07:46
I don't like the cloud model but it is in UMI, i dunno which :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-03-03 13:33:44
I like the subtitles to be honest. Also, I understood Asa.

Maybe there should use some color for the names to separate from text. Sub's not my fav for ffvii. I prefer the transparent boxes ;)

P.S.: I want Kula Wende original Cloud like he appears in Technical demo :P :P (who doesn't :D :D )
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-11 17:13:26
Well that is R002 done...  and Menu Overhaul is practically ready for M005 now. So maybe tonight.  Tomorrow latest.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-03-11 23:12:59
Can't wait to try it!!! What an awesome project!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Iecerint on 2012-03-13 16:50:49
Maybe the subtitles would be more universally easy-to-read if there were black borders around the letters.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-13 16:57:37
There are black borders around the letters, but deliberately not harsh ones as they look crap in boxes.  The subtitle idea for me works regardless, just not without audio to go with it.  Either way, subtitles don't work without audio as well as boxes.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: UGerstl on 2012-03-23 13:57:04
Hi DLPB,

i am translating the English ff7.exe into German at the moment.

After this is done i will try to translate the French and Italian versions also.
The problem is, that i cannot read/write/understand French and Italian.
But with the right HEX codes i can do it.   ;)

This is what i found out while translating into German:

Code: [Select]
21 A
22 B
23 C
24 D
25 E
26 F
27 G
28 H
29 I
2A J
2B K
2C L
2D M
2E N
2F O
30 P
31 Q
32 R
33 S
34 T
35 U
36 V
37 W
38 X
39 Y
3A Z

60 Ä
66 Ü
6A ä
7A ö
7F ü
87 ß

01 !
05 %
06 &
07 '
0B +
0C ,
0D -
0E .
0F /
1F ?
3B [
3D ]
A9 …
B2 “
B3 ”

10 0
11 1
12 2
13 3
14 4
15 5
16 6
17 7
18 8
19 9


Do you have a complete list for me ?
(including the special characters for foreign languages)

I searched via Google but i can't find the right ASCII table.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-23 17:07:16
http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7/FF_Text
But a better way would be to simply start using the english exe modified or something, like the spanish 1.03... not sure who'd be up for that challenge.

Another way possibly just using the english game and forgetting the foreign games all together.  Then you could use ts and make it another language easily.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: UGerstl on 2012-03-23 18:07:10
Thanks for showing me the link and for the hint.  ;)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sylandro on 2012-03-26 01:47:59
I'm working on a project to retranslate the spanish version using touphScript, Menu Overhaul and the english FF7PC.

Given that you're working on a retranslation of the english version (and a very impressive one), I have a few questions: how did you access the japanese script? Does touphScript support dumping from the japanese PC version, or did it involve playing the game in japanese and taking notes?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-26 01:59:24
At first we did both but now I and Luksy go through the game for localisation/trans.

However, we also compare japanese with the english dump.  We run through them map by map.  ts does support dumping of Japanese game and I have them all here dumped :)  The order of the text is not the same all the time though, this is not a ts issue... it's how they did it.

I will add a link here to the japanese text, dumped by Luksy, later after food.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sylandro on 2012-03-26 02:00:53
A link to the japanese dump will be invaluable for all future translations!

Thanks.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-26 05:37:08
FF7 JAPANESE TEXT  is Here (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36889302/FF7/Japanese%20text.7z)
----------

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36889302/FF7/password%20is.png)

And now, a bit more comparison.  This map was fun to do because it required a little thinking about how to make the game work but keeping to the original translation as much as was feasible.  In the Japanese game, the password is 4 kanji symbols which make up a sentence.  A kanji is found in each of the 4 rooms.

In the western game, a letter spelling a 4 letter word is found instead.  In the original translation, however, the localiser opted to give simple 1 word passwords.  The 2 passwords that are not used, he simple made up (HOJO and ORBS).

I have tried to keep the original meanings in tact.  The Japanese passwords are:

“The password is?”
{CHOICE}(The mayor's the best!!)
{CHOICE}(Shin-Ra's the worst!!)
{CHOICE}(Mako's the best!!)
{CHOICE}(Mayor explosion!!)
{CHOICE}(Mako explosion!!)
{CHOICE}(Shin-Ra explosion!!)
{CHOICE}Wait a second
------------------------------

The original localisation passwords are:

“The password is?”
{CHOICE}BEST
{CHOICE}KING
{CHOICE}ORBS
{CHOICE}BOMB
{CHOICE}MAKO
{CHOICE}HOJO
{CHOICE}Wait a second
------------------------------

And so we come to the comparison

Original
Code: [Select]
Shinra Bldg. 62f.
------------------------------
Shinra, Inc.
Urban Dev. Research Library
------------------------------
Shinra, Inc.
Space Dev. Research Library
------------------------------
Shinra, Inc.
Peace Preservation/
Weapon Dev. Research Library
------------------------------
Shinra, Inc.
Scientific Research Library
------------------------------
Hart
“How do you do?”{NEW}
“This is the Midgar Mayor's Office.
Mayor Domino is in his office.”{NEW}
“I am the Deputy Mayor.
If you should have any questions
feel free to ask me…”
------------------------------
Domino
“Hmm?
Oh, and who might you be?”{NEW}
“You all must be those…ahem…
Me? I'm Domino, the Mayor of Midgar.”{NEW}
“Actually, I'm Mayor in name only.
The city and everything in it is really
run by Shinra, Inc.”{NEW}
“My only real job is watching over
Shinra's documents…”{NEW}
“Me! The Mayor!
A librarian!
Ohh…”{NEW}
“You want to get upstairs?
I tell you what, if you can guess the
password, I'll give you my keycard.”
------------------------------
“Yes, that's it.
Guess the password
and I'll give you my keycard!”{NEW}
“Get it on the first try
and I'll even throw in
a special item!”
------------------------------
Domino
“Got it?”{NEW}
“Then tell me.”
------------------------------
“So, what's the password?”
{CHOICE}BEST
{CHOICE}KING
{CHOICE}ORBS
{CHOICE}BOMB
{CHOICE}MAKO
{CHOICE}HOJO
{CHOICE}Wait a second
------------------------------
Domino
“Nope! You're ALL wrong!
It's a much better word than that!
Try again!”
------------------------------
Domino
“BEST!!”
------------------------------
“God, I love the sound of that!
BEST!! I AM the best…ME!!
No matter what anyone else says,
you'd better believe it.”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well, OK.
Here, take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“KING!!”
------------------------------
“God, I love the sound of that!
KING!! President Shinra sucks!
I should be King of Midgar!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well, OK.
Here, take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“BOMB!!”
------------------------------
“God, I love the sound of that!
BOMB!! I'm so angry, I'm like
a walking time bomb waiting to explode!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well, OK.
Here, take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“MAKO!!”
------------------------------
“God, I love the sound of that!
MAKO! If I had a lot more of it,
I would be a real Mayor!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well, OK.
Here, take it.”
------------------------------
Received "Keycard 65"!
------------------------------
Domino
“Why would I do something
like this, you ask?”{NEW}
“Revenge, of course!
Shinra's been torturing me forever.”{NEW}
“That's why I was a little rough
on you all just now.
Now go up there and really
make them suffer.”{NEW}
“This ought to teach them!
Heh heh heh…”
------------------------------
Domino
“But my card will only get you
to the 65th floor.”{NEW}
“Can you believe how they treat me?
…ME! Like some common employee…”
------------------------------
Hart
“Did you speak with the Mayor?”{NEW}
“What?
A password?
Oh, I get it…”{NEW}
“He's got way too much time on his hands.
But you can't really blame him,
Everything in Midgar is controlled
by President Shinra.”{NEW}
“Maybe I can help you.”
------------------------------
Hart
“…I see.
Then, I guess that's that.”{NEW}
“Good luck
finding it on your own.”{NEW}
“If you decide you want help.
I'll just be right over here.
Ready to tell you anytime…”
------------------------------
“What can I do for you?”
{CHOICE}Give me the hint again
{CHOICE}Give me the next hint
{CHOICE}Uh, nothing
------------------------------
Hart
“Sure, sure.
All right.”{NEW}
“As a public servant,
it's my job to serve
the needs of the people.”{NEW}
“So here's a hint…”
------------------------------
“…for 500 gil.”
{CHOICE}Give him the money
{CHOICE}Forget it!
------------------------------
“…for 1000 gil.”
{CHOICE}Give him the money
{CHOICE}Forget it!
------------------------------
“…for 2000 gil.”
{CHOICE}Give him the money
{CHOICE}Forget it!
------------------------------
Hart
“What do you want to know?”
{CHOICE}HELP
{CHOICE}Forget it
------------------------------
Hart
“Hey now!
You're a bit short.”{NEW}
“No one works on credit nowadays…
not even stores in the slums.”
------------------------------
Hart
“Oh, my…well,
Thank you very much.”
------------------------------
“Now listen.
On this floor are four research libraries
for four different sections of Shinra, Inc….”{NEW}
“Parts of the password are hidden
in each of the libraries.”{NEW}
“Pay careful attention to the files
in each room.”{NEW}
“The name of each library is written
on the plaque outside the door.”
------------------------------
“Now, in each library will be one file
mixed in from another library.”{NEW}
“Look carefully at the numbers
on each file.”
------------------------------
“There is a number at the beginning
of each file name.”{NEW}
“Look at the number on
the files that don't belong
in that library.”{NEW}
“Match the number with the letters
in the title of the file.”{NEW}
“If the file starts with a 4,
then check the fourth letter and…
well, you get the idea.”
------------------------------
Hart
“If you run into President Shinra,
please don't tell him about this.”{NEW}
“I can't be a partner to
anymore trouble for Shinra.”
------------------------------
“I never thought you'd
get it on the first try…”{NEW}
“Just goes to show you can't
judge a book by its cover.
Oh well, a promise is a promise.
Take this, too.”
------------------------------
Received "Elemental" Materia!
------------------------------
Domino
“What…full already?
Come back again when it's empty.”
------------------------------
Received "Elixir"!
------------------------------
Received "Ether"!
------------------------------
Received "Potion"!
------------------------------
Domino
“Hmm.
It appears you're not completely stupid.”{NEW}
“Fine then, take this.”
------------------------------
Domino
“I see…
For you…this might be best.”{NEW}
“Then,
this is for all of you.”
------------------------------
Domino
“Hoo boy! You finally got it?”{NEW}
“You all really don't use
your heads much, do you?”{NEW}
“……What the hey.
Here, just take it anyway.”
------------------------------

Trans
Code: [Select]
Shin-Ra Bldg. 62F
------------------------------
Shin-Ra Company Archives
     Urban Development
------------------------------
Shin-Ra Company Archives
         Space Program
------------------------------
          Shin-Ra Company Archives
Public Order and Weapons Department
------------------------------
Shin-Ra Company Archives
     Science Department
------------------------------
Hut
“Oh,how do you do?”{NEW}
“This is the Office of
the mayor of Midgar.
Mayor Domino is inside.”{NEW}
“Incidentally,
I am the mayor's assistant.
Should you have any queries,
please do run them by me…”
------------------------------
Domino
“Hmm?
And you are?”{NEW}
“Ah,you must be that infamous…
Me? I'm Domino,Mayor of
the Mako city,Midgar.”{NEW}
“Actually,I'm Mayor in name only.
The truth is Shin-Ra owns
and runs everything in Midgar.”{NEW}
“My job right now is
managing Shin-Ra's archives…”{NEW}
“Me! The Mayor of Midgar…
managing Shin-Ra's archives!
Sigh…”{NEW}
“You want to go further up,right?
Fine by me,
I'll even give you my Keycard.”{NEW}
“On one condition…
Tell me the password.”
------------------------------
“Yes,give me the password
and you'll get the card.”{NEW}
“And,if you get it in one go,
I'll even throw in a little something.
How does that sound?”
------------------------------
Domino
“You have the password?”{NEW}
“Then,let's hear it.”
------------------------------
“The password is…”
{CHOICE}The mayor is the BEST
{CHOICE}Shinra is the PITS
{CHOICE}Mako is COOL
{CHOICE}The mayor is a BOMB
{CHOICE}Blow the MAKO
{CHOICE}Shin-Ra goes BOOM
{CHOICE}Wait a second
------------------------------
Domino
“Nope! Completely wrong!
It's much better than that!
Try again!”
------------------------------
Domino
“The mayor is the best!!”
------------------------------
“God,how beautiful that sounds!
You are correct!
The mayor of Midgar is the best!
No matter what anyone says! THE Best!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well,okay.
Here,take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“Shinra is the pits!!
------------------------------
“God,how beautiful that sounds!
You are correct!
President Shinra is the pits!
I am the master of Midgar!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well,okay.
Here,take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“The mayor is a bomb!!”
------------------------------
“God,how beautiful that sounds!
You are correct!
My anger is at its limit!
I may explode at any minute!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well,okay.
Here,take it.”
------------------------------
Domino
“Blow the Mako!!”
------------------------------
“God,how beautiful that sounds!
You are correct!
We must destroy Mako energy!
Only then will I become a proper mayor!”{NEW}
“…hmm. Well,okay.
Here,take it.”
------------------------------
Obtained "Keycard 65"!
------------------------------
Domino
“Why would I do something
like this,you ask?”{NEW}
“Isn't it obvious?
I'm toying with them.
Pissing them off.”{NEW}
Shin-Ra's been
tormenting me for ages.”{NEW}
“That's why I was a little rough
on you all just now.
Go on up there and
create some chaos.”{NEW}
“That ought to teach them!
Hee,hee,hee,hee,hee…”
------------------------------
Domino
“I should probably tell you this…
My card will only take you
as far as the 65th floor.”{NEW}
“Damn Shin-Ra,treating me…
ME! Like some regular employee…”
------------------------------
Hut
“Did you speak with the Mayor?”{NEW}
“Ehh?
A password?
Oh,I get it…”{NEW}
“He's got nothing better to do.
You see,President Shinra has
almost complete control of Midgar.”{NEW}
“Well,
if that's how it has to be,
then let me help you.”
------------------------------
Hut
“…is that so?
Then,I guess that's that.”{NEW}
“Good luck
finding it on your own.”{NEW}
“If you can't figure it out
come back anytime.
I'll be waiting here for you…”
------------------------------
“What can I do for you?”
{CHOICE}Give me that hint again
{CHOICE}Give me another hint
{CHOICE}Nothing
------------------------------
Hut
“Yes,certainly.
Certainly.”{NEW}
“As a public servant,
it's a joy to serve
the needs of the people.”{NEW}
“I'll gladly give you a hint…”
------------------------------
“…for 500 gil.”
{CHOICE}Pay up
{CHOICE}Don't screw with me!
------------------------------
“…for 1000 gil.”
{CHOICE}Pay up
{CHOICE}Don't screw with me!
------------------------------
“…for 2000 gil.”
{CHOICE}Pay up
{CHOICE}Don't screw with me!
------------------------------
Hut
“I'll answer any queries.”
{CHOICE}Help me
{CHOICE}I don't need your help
------------------------------
Hut
“Oh dear!
Are you a bit short?”{NEW}
“I'm afraid no one works by credit these days…
not even stores in the slums…”
------------------------------
Hut
“Oh,my… well,
thank you very much.”
------------------------------
“Listen carefully.
This floor holds archives of the Shin-Ra
Company's four main departments.”{NEW}
“Parts of the password are hidden
in each of the archive rooms.”{NEW}
“Try having a gooood look
at the documents in each room.”{NEW}
“The department names are written
on a plaque next to the door.”
------------------------------
“Ready? Okay.
In each room there should be a
misplaced document that belongs
in one of the other rooms.”{NEW}
“If you look at the document's
number and its name…”
------------------------------
“Pay attention.
Every document has a number.”{NEW}
“When you find a document
that's in the wrong room,
look at its corresponding number.”{NEW}
“If the number is,let's say four…
take a look at the fourth
letter in the title and…
Well,you get the idea?”
------------------------------
Hut
“If you happen to run into President Shinra,
please don't mention me.”{NEW}
“If I get bullied by Shin-Ra
one more time there'll be hell to pay.”
------------------------------
Domino
“And on the first attempt…”{NEW}
“Just goes to show you can't
judge a book by its cover.
Oh well,a promise is a promise.
Here,take this as well.”
------------------------------
Obtained "Attribute" Materia!
------------------------------
Domino
“What,fully loaded? Already?
Well,come back when you can hold it.”
------------------------------
Obtained "Elixir"!
------------------------------
Obtained "Ether"!
------------------------------
Obtained "Potion"!
------------------------------
Domino
“Hmm,looks like you have
your head screwed on.”{NEW}
“Fine,
take this.”
------------------------------
Domino
“I see…
Well,if that's as good as you get,
I'd say this is what you deserve.  Here.”
------------------------------
Domino
“Hoo boy! You got it at last…”{NEW}
“I guess not all of the
lights are on upstairs,eh?”{NEW}
“……Well,what the hey.
Take this.”
------------------------------





Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-03-26 05:47:11
I actually dumped the Japanese text with a small subset of touphScript, ts doesn't actually support Japanese for now, I may add it in later if necessary.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-26 07:43:18
Just a note.  Metal Knuckle will show as Metal Knuckl in R002.  Fixed for R003. I have no idea how I ended up losing a letter in the text file.


(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36889302/FF7/password%20is2.png)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-03-28 12:20:12
And remember R002 is now released with menu Overhaul M005 .
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: spy__dragon on 2012-04-14 16:26:56
Hi, I have a question about the joke or word game.

I don't understand what it means. Only thing I understand is that it forms a whole sentence instead of a word, but I don't know what word, sorry my bad interpretation.

And other thing, I am working with Sylandro with the retranslation, but we use your retranslation if you don't mind because there are best and magics,(Of course you all are in the credits).
I have seen the post that you haven't finished the retranslation the dialogues, as I am translating the dialogues, I can say what failures there are and comment, if you do not mind, of course.

Greetings!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Bosola on 2012-04-14 19:23:18
"The password is the mayor is the BEST"? That doesn't sound right.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-04-15 05:08:16
First of all, I LOVE YOU FOREVER FOR THIS. I have a friend who loves the game after being told about it, but doesn't want to play it because... yeah. Plus, if S-E ever remakes VII, they'll probably change things to fit their retcons - I totally respect that decision, I don't dislike the Compendium, but I really would like this game in as close to the original format as I can get!

That being said, I read the messge from Luksy and I was hoping I could maybe get some things cleared up in my mind? I'm gonna quote the exact things that are throwing me (without using the quote system):

1. "Some errors slightly alter the plot; one or two, severely.  Some errors have been adopted as canon by SE, and some have been modified in later media."
2. "Any error that has been adopted as canon does not preclude it from being changed due to the reasons in the first list."
3. NOT "A literal retranslation from the Japanese (aside from certain names and items etc as mentioned above).  "

So I'm curious just how the changes are going to be handled? What it SEEMS to be is a retranslation to stay true to the original INTENT of the game, regardless of later retcons, to the best of the ability of the translators who have no ability to contact the original writers to doublecheck translations. Is that pretty much the case?

You guys have all my respect, btw!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-04-15 05:44:50
I think this (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11867.msg164692#msg164692) (rather long) back and forward explains most of the theory behind what we're doing.

a tl;dr would be something like:

Non-dialogue is as close as possible to the Japanese and completely ignores later canon (if incorrect, e.g. Zack->Zax), and is where you'll see the most obvious differences;
dialogue is a more of a hybrid between DLPB's and the original localization, while fixing mistakes in the translation itself at the same time.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-04-15 10:27:03
I actually read the entire thing, and looking at the debate back and forth I think you're making what I've been hoping for in a re-translation. The "ignore canon" thing actually really pleases me given some of my misgivings about choices S-E has made, as does the evidence Barret is going to talk like a normal person finally!

It also looks like you're going to fix plot/character changing localization choices, which is amazing! Maybe I won't have to spend several years trying to puzzle through the plot this time! XD

tl;dr I've got some slight misgivings about a few aspects that I won't be sure on my stance about until I see them in action, but overall this mod looks really nice and I'll definitely be using it once you get the full release done! It is very possible your mod may become my new canon for fanworks. XD

(I really hope that wasn't empty praise...)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-04-15 11:24:09
Quote
tl;dr I've got some slight misgivings about a few aspects that I won't be sure on my stance about until I see them in action, but overall this mod looks really nice and I'll definitely be using it once you get the full release done! It is very possible your mod may become my new canon for fanworks. XD

It'd be better if you bring it up sooner rather than later if possible, if we're wrong about something it's easier to fix things while we're still in the middle of it, the amount of text is about the same as your average novel, and merely the thought of going through it again makes me want to shoot myself.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-04-15 12:44:07
Aha, most of it has to do with things you've decided upon in regards to not translating from the Japanese game and a bit of original bias on my part (I used to be rabid anti-dub, I've thankfully matured past that.) Most of my uncertainty was covered in the discussions you had, and its really just a stance on things. I'm slightly hesitant about the not being a translation from the Japanese dialogue, but honestly that was never your intent!

I guess I did have a few slight ideas in regards to the translations, though. Centered around the Blitz Ball and Ashes to Ashes retranslations.

I think you chose Blitz based on the German for lightning. But if the Japanese is literally "Lightning Attack Ball" I think that maybe "Blitzkrieg" would be better. It apparently means "lightning war" according to Wikipedia, making Blitzkrieg Ball mean Lightning War Ball. I personally feel it echoes the "Lightning Attack" thing better. Its really possible you thought of that already, though! Here's the wikipedia page on blitzkrieg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitzkrieg

With Yuffie's Doom of the Living, you chose Ashes to Ashes to fit the idiom, but I think Memento Mori might actually be a better fit? The only issue I'd see is that its latin, and I don't know how you'd feel about using that with Yuffie. Here's a really good link about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memento_mori

But yeah, overall, my misgivings are just silly worries that really have no grounding! I can't... even really define them better than what I've said already, sorry about that!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-15 12:47:17
"The password is the mayor is the BEST"? That doesn't sound right.

I can change it to "Pass phrase".  The japanese is indeed a sentence.  In any case I cannot use single words for the password because then meaning is lost.  It is only an excuse for a minigame anyway.

@mugenginga  I feel Ashes to Ashes fits the idiom much better and will have meaning to a western audience that your preference does not.  Most people would not understand that latin meaning and clearly since the japanese understand japanese, the idiom translation should be in english. 

The move is not called lightning war, which is why I went with Blitz Ball.   The move is lit a ball of lightning that the dragon fires at you.

As for translation.  We are localising and translating as close to the original source material as possible. Even if they have now made the mistakes canon (i.e. Mideel).  However, the installer does allow you a degree of leniency.  I have allowed it so people can keep the canon character names with an option.  Same goes with Hi Potion, Phoenix Down, Ramuh and Megalixir.

 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-04-15 13:44:08
@DLPB Yep, I can definitely see that. I just figured I'd mention them and let you do with it what you would!

Yeah, I've spent the last hour reading the whole thread, and those misgivings I talked about have pretty much vanished into thin air. I didn't realize you guys had direct comparisons up before, which is really all I wanted to see. I'm really liking the fixes/changes on Barrett!

Thanks so much for your hard work! Translating is really a pain, and I can be nitpicky, so I really hope I'm not coming across as unappreciative. I've told my friends about this and at least one of them intends on replaying VII with your mod even though he swore never to touch it again over issues with the original translation.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-15 13:54:27
 8)  Any things you think of are welcome, whether we use them or not :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-04-15 14:23:05
If there are any text files I could deal with the Greek "fan" translation and send them to you. I have a professional translator friend to help me too. Case is I'm not sure if Greek characters are recognizable by ff7...
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-04-15 14:43:14
The only ones in the standard charmap are µ Σ Π π ∆, you could make your own char sprites of course but it's not particularly easy.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-04-15 16:01:34
The only ones in the standard charmap are µ Σ Π π ∆, you could make your own char sprites of course but it's not particularly easy.

The only thing I'm able to do is translate text files and send them and it would be fun for me and my friend. If there is any way to import Greek fonts... there are ready for example Arial Greek
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-15 16:34:01
You would have to do what I did, look at the files found in modpath and create place the characters on the texture, then edit window.bin values for the letter spacings (or wait until Luksy adds support for window.bin.txt  :-D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-04-15 16:42:29
You would have to do what I did, look at the files found in modpath and create place the characters on the texture, then edit window.bin values for the letter spacings (or wait until Luksy adds support for window.bin.txt  :-D

Let me look into this so I learn how to. Thanks!

*I looked into mod path. Mine is DK. I can see pngs with characters but can't understand the procedure to create those in that particular format... :-\
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-15 16:44:43
I don't have the time to explain it and teach anyone.  I learned myself, it is pretty simple with hex editor for window.bin (after extraction) and a PHOTO editing software for the textures.

Real time editing of values is possible by editing memory addresses around 0099ddaf
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: PitBrat on 2012-04-15 17:32:55
Leonhart,
Check out the character png's installed with Avalanche.  They're located in the textures folder.
Compare these old versions to the character textures created by DLPB.
He has truly put a tremendous amount of effort into making every pixel perfect.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-04-15 19:11:18
Leonhart,
Check out the character png's installed with Avalanche.  They're located in the textures folder.
Compare these old versions to the character textures created by DLPB.
He has truly put a tremendous amount of effort into making every pixel perfect.

I'll pm you this is totally off-topic :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-16 03:15:05
Another comparison, this time mostly done but work in progress.  Note that palmer has his own unique noises.

Old:
Code: [Select]
Shinra Bldg. 70f.
------------------------------
President Shinra
“How are the preparations going?”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Gya, haa, haa! Smoothly, very smoothly!
I assigned the Turks to this.”
------------------------------
Reeve
“President!!
Are we really going to do this?
Simply destroy a group
with only a few members…”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“What's the problem, Reeve? You want out?”
------------------------------
Reeve
“…No.”{NEW}
“But, as head of the Urban Development
Department,
I have been involved in the building
and running of Midgar. That's why…”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Reeve, flush your personal problems
with the rest of your crap!”
------------------------------
Reeve
“The Mayor's against this anyway…”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Mayor?”{NEW}
“He just sits in this building all day
feeding his face!
You still call that a Mayor?”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Now if you'll excuse me sir!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“You're tired.
Why don't you take a couple of days
off and go somewhere.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“We'll destroy Sector 7
and report that AVALANCHE did it.
Then we'll send in the rescue
operation care of Shinra, Inc….
Heh, heh, heh…this is perfect.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“They got you, too?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Where is {AERIS}!?”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“In a safe place.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“She's the last
surviving Ancient…”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Don't you know?
They called themselves the Cetra and lived
thousands of years ago.
Now they are just a forgotten page in history.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“Cetra…that girl
is a survivor of the Cetra?”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Cetra, or the Ancients, will show us
the way to the 'Promised Land'.
I'm expecting a lot out of her.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“The Promised Land?
Isn't that just a legend?”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Even so, it's far too appealing
not to pursue.”{NEW}
“It's been said the Promised Land is
very fertile.”{NEW}
“…If the land is fertile…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“then there's gotta be Mako!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Exactly.
That is why our money-making
Mako Reactor is necessary.”{NEW}
“The abundant Mako will
flow out on its own.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“That is where Neo-Midgar will be built.
Shinra's new glory…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“@$\#*^%!
Quit dreamin'!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Oh really, don't you know?
These days all it takes for your
dreams to come true is money and power.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Well, that is all for our meeting.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Hold it!
I got a lot to say to you!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“If there's anything else…
talk to my secretary.”
------------------------------
Rude
“Come on! Outta his way!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“He's dead…
The head of Shinra is dead…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Then this sword must be…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sephiroth's!!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…Sephiroth is alive?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…Looks like it.
Only Sephiroth can use that sword.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Who cares who did it!?
This is the end of the Shinra!”
------------------------------
“Uh!”
------------------------------
Palmer
“P, p, p, please, don't kill me!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“What happened?”
------------------------------
Palmer
“Se…Sephiroth.
Sephiroth came.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Did you see him? Did you see Sephiroth?”
------------------------------
Palmer
“Yeah, I saw him! With my own eyes!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“You really saw him?”
------------------------------
Palmer
“Uh!
Would I lie at a time like this!?
I heard his voice, too!”
------------------------------
Palmer
“Um, he said something about
not letting us have the Promised Land.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Then does that mean”{NEW}
“the Promised Land really does
exist and that Sephiroth's
here to save it from Shinra?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“So he's a good guy then?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Save the Promised Land?
A good guy? No way!!”{NEW}
“It's not that simple! I know him!
Sephiroth's mission is different!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Rufus!
&*%$! I forgot about him!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Who's that?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Vice President Rufus.
The President's son.”
------------------------------

New:
Code: [Select]
Shin-Ra Bldg. 70F
------------------------------
President Shinra
“How are the preparations going?”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Gya,ha,ha!!
Smoothly,very smoothly!
I've assigned the Turks to this.”
------------------------------
Reeve
“Mr.President!!
Are we really going to do this?
Simply to crush a group with
only a few members at best…”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Why this objection now?
Do you have something you
want to share with us,Reeve?”
------------------------------
Reeve
“…No.”{NEW}
“But,as head of Urban Development,
I've been involved in the
building and running of Midgar.
That's why I…”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Reeve,flush personal problems down
the toilet before you set off for work!”
------------------------------
Reeve
“The Mayor's also against this…”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Mayor!?”{NEW}
“That buffoon just sits in the
  building all day,feeding his face!
You call that a Mayor?”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Now,if you'll excuse me!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“You're tired.
Take some time off away from here.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“We'll destroy District 7.
The reports will blame Avalanche
and the relief operation will be
handled by the Shin-Ra Company.
Heh,heh,heh… it's perfect.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“They got you,too…?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Where's {AERIS}!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“In a safe place.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“She's invaluable to us.
The last surviving Ancient…”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“You don't know?
They called themselves the Cetra,
and lived thousands of years ago.
A tribe,long buried in history.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“Cetra… that girl is a
survivor of the Cetra?”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Cetra,or the Ancients,will teach
us about the Promised Land.
I'm expecting great things from her.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“The Promised Land?
That's just a legend?”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“But an enthralling legend.
So enticing that it must be persued.”{NEW}
“The Promised Land is
said to be incredibly fertile.”{NEW}
“…And if the land is fertile…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Then there's gotta be Mako!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Exactly.
We won't even need any cash-
craving Mako Reactors there.”{NEW}
“The abundant Mako
will flow out on its own.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“That is where Neo-Midgar will be built.
Our company's new glory…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Hah!
Quit dreamin'!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Come now,surely you've realised?
These days,all that one requires to make
a dream come true is money and power.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Well,that concludes your audience.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Hold it right there!
I've a truck load of things I gotta
say to you,you greedy bastard!”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“If there's anything else…
        talk to my secretary.”
------------------------------
Rude
“Come on! Outta his way!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Dead…
The leader of Shin-Ra is dead…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“What's this sword!?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“That's Sephiroth's!!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…You mean Sephiroth is alive?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…Looks like it.
Only Sephiroth could wield that.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Who cares who did it!?
Shin-Ra's finished!”
------------------------------
“U-hyo!”
------------------------------
Palmer
“D-d-d-d-don't kill me!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“What happened?”
------------------------------
Palmer
“Se-Sephiroth.
Sephiroth was here.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“You saw him?
You saw Sephiroth?”
------------------------------
Palmer
“Yeah,I saw him!
With my own eyes!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Really?”
------------------------------
Palmer
“Uh-hyo!
Would I lie at a time like this!?
I heard his voice too,uh-hyo!”
------------------------------
Palmer
“Er,he mumbled something about
not handing over the Promised Land.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“What does that mean?”{NEW}
“Does the Promised Land actually
exist and Sephiroth came
here to save it from Shin-Ra?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“So,he's a good guy then?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Save the Promised Land?
A good guy? No way!!”{NEW}
“It's not that simple!
Believe me!
Sephiroth must have some other goal!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Rufus! sh*t!
Forgot about him!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Who's that?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Vice President Rufus.
The President's son.”
------------------------------

There are 2 big errors in the original translation.  Firstly, it makes it look as though Tifa knew it was Sep's sword when she did not make the connection, and secondly Pres Shinra states that a reactor is needed at the promised land which is completely wrong.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-16 14:44:24
As of today 37% of the game is completed and the whole of Midgar dialogue is completed.  Well done Luksy.  8-)

Some other areas size roughly which need doing: 

Cosmo Canyon 47KB
Costa Del Sol 36 KB
Kalm 22 KB
Remaining highwind: 35 KB
Gold Saucer 45 KB
Fort Condor 30KB
Corel 20 KB
Niblheim 46KB
Midhir 40KB
Temple of the Ancients 36KB
Junon 53 KB
Wutai 40KB


Note, Hojo's 4 monsters have been renamed to reflect dialogue.  Instead of "Sample" they are now "Specimen".  Sample is too literal for the dialogue and the dialogue takes presidence.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Dark_Ansem on 2012-04-16 20:07:50
thank you :D I wait for this very eagerly in order to start a new game!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2012-04-16 21:21:57
Will we be able to expect this compatiable with the hardcore mod in the future?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-16 21:48:32
See hardcore thread.



Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-16 23:45:11
1 last comparison for now.  In this scene, Tifa accuses Barrett of looking up her skirt while on the staircase of Shin-Ra Building.  The animation is a give away, sadly the original translation ruined the scene.  We have localised it so that it is more obvious and also more accurate to the actual feel of the scene.

Orig
Code: [Select]
Shinra Bldg. Stairs
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Don't know…
why…the hell…
we gotta…climb…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…because we don't want to starta
a commotion until we've saved
{AERIS}.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“If that's possible…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…heh heh heh.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Knock it off. You're giving me the creeps.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“So even you will fight for someone else.
Guess I figured you wrong.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Who cares what you figured!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“I'm just sayin'
mebbe I was wrong…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“heh heh heh……”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“What's that supposed
to mean, {TIFA}?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…how much farther do these
stairs go on?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Why don't you ask them?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“It's not one of them endless
stairways or somethin', is it?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Of course not!!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Right…couldn't be that…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Are we there yet?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Not yet.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…there yet?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“I said not yet!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Look, don't even ask!
We're way way way way far
away from being there, OK!?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo…
What floor is this?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…I stopped counting.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Why they gotta build these buildings
so damn tall?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“That Shinra…
They're just no damn good.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…huff…
Man, I'm beat…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Marlene, daddy wanted to
see your face one more time…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Would you stop acting like a
retard and climb!?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“It's just a bit more!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…maybe.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Damn, man!
I've had it! I'm going back!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“It'll take just as long to go down as
it did to come up.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“C'mon, {BARRET}.
Pull it together!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yeah well, all I know is I'm only
flesh 'n' blood…
'cept for this arm of mine.”{NEW}
“Don't treat me like I'm some
ex-SOLDIER or somethin'…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“What about me!? I'm human too!
Oh, do what you want, I'm going on!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Yaah!
{BARRET}!
You go first!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“What're ya ignorant?
  …I didn't mean that”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“All right, all right!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“{CLOUD},
you go on ahead too!!”
------------------------------
Received "Elixir"!
------------------------------
Received "Behemoth Horn"!
------------------------------

New:
Code: [Select]
Shin-Ra Bldg. Staircase
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Don't know…
why…the hell…
we gotta… kill ourselves…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…because I don't want any
trouble until we've saved {AERIS}.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Although,I can see that being a problem…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…heh,heh,heh.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“What is it?
You're giving me the creeps.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“So,there are times when
even you fight for other people.
Guess I got you wrong.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'm not interested in
what you think about me.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“I'm just sayin'…
Sorry for… before,ya know?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Hehehe…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Now you're at it,{TIFA}…?
What gives?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…how much farther do
these stairs go on for?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Who knows…
why don't you ask them?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“It can't keep going on
like this forever,can it?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Of course it can't!!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yeah…
Okay,that was a bit silly…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Are we there yet?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Doesn't look like it.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…there yet?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Not yet!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“I said not yet!
Not yet,not yet,not yet,
not yet,not yet,not yet!!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Hey…
What floor we on?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…I stopped counting ages ago.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“W-why did they build
this place s-so damn tall?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“That Sh-Shin-Ra…
They're just no damn good…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“……”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Ohhhh…
Man,I'm beat…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“I'm sorry,Marin.
I know you were hopin'
to see Daddy again someday…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Hey!
Stop tempting fate!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Just a little more!
Only a little more!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…Maybe.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“That's it!
I've had enough! I'm going back!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“You're going to go back down
all those stairs we just climbed?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“……”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“C'mon,{BARRET}.
Sort yourself out!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Don't matter what you s-say,
I'm still only flesh 'n' blood…
'Cept for this r-right arm of mine…”{NEW}
“Not like I have any
s-special ex-Soldier powers…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“I'm human too,you know!
I'm going on ahead of you!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Yaaah!!
{BARRET},stop looking!
I don't wanna go first now!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Y-you crazy!?
  …I didn't look ANYWHERE!…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“If you say so!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“And you can get in front too,{CLOUD}!!”
------------------------------
Obtained "Elixir"!
------------------------------
Obtained "Behemoth Horn"!
------------------------------


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-18 02:11:59
Today I have taken a liberty with the story.  Don't like doing it at all but I see no way to get around this.  The original trans team did the same.
Quote
[03:08] <DLPB> turns out president shinra is called "President"  it is not a title
[03:09] <Covarr> lol
[03:09] <DLPB> he is called President. hahaha.  Rufus refers to himself as "head of shin-ra company" he is never referred to as a president....   The japanese seem to have made a pun on president, making  shinra called president
[03:10] <DLPB> but f*ck that
[03:10] <DLPB> no western audience would get it

kinda getting to grips with this map now. 

Old
Code: [Select]
Shinra Bldg. 70f.
------------------------------
Rufus
“So…
So Sephiroth was actually here.
…By the way,”
------------------------------
Rufus
“just who are you?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'm {CLOUD},
ex-SOLDIER, First Class!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“I'm from AVALANCHE!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Me too!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“A flower girl from the slums.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“A Research Specimen.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“What a crew.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Well, I'm Rufus.
The President of Shinra, Inc.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“You're only President 'cause yer old man died!”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Correct. I'll let you hear my
inauguration speech.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“…Father tried to control the world
with money,
and that worked for him.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“The people believed that Shinra
would protect them.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Work at Shinra, get your pay.
If terrorists attack,
the Shinra army will help you.”{NEW}
“It looked perfect on the outside.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“But, I do things differently.”{NEW}
“I'll control the world with fear.
It's too much to do it like my old man.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“A little fear will control
the minds of the common people.
There's no reason to waste
good money on them.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“He likes to make speeches
just like his father.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Get {AERIS} outta
the building!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“What?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'll explain later!
{BARRET}!  This is the real crisis
for the Planet!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“The hell's that supposed to mean?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'll explain later!
Just take my word for now!
I'll go after I take care of him!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Alright, {CLOUD}!”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Why do you want to fight me?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“You want the Promised Land
and Sephiroth.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“That's right.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Did you know
that Sephiroth is an Ancient?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…Whatever,
I can't let either you or Sephiroth
have the Promised Land!”
------------------------------
Rufus
“I see.
I guess we won't be allies.”
------------------------------
Access Menu with {PURPLE}[MENU]{WHITE}
Remove Materia from members with {PURPLE}[SWITCH]{WHITE}
End with {PURPLE}[START]{WHITE}.
------------------------------

New
Code: [Select]
Shin-Ra Bldg. 70F
------------------------------
Rufus
“So…
So Sephiroth is alive after all.
By the way……”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Hey,just who are you?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“{CLOUD}.
Ex-Soldier,First Class.
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“I'm from Avalanche!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Same here!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“…A flower seller from the slums.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“…A research specimen.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“What a crew.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Well,I'm Rufus.
President of the Shin-Ra Company.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“The old fool's still warm…”{NEW}
“Not wastin' any time,are ya!?”
------------------------------
Rufus
“True. I suppose I'll let you
hear my inauguration speech.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“…Father tried to control the
world using the power of money,
and that worked for him.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Shin-Ra made the people feel safe.
They thought they were being protected.”
------------------------------
#h 4
Rufus
“Work at Shin-Ra,get your pay.
Any trouble… any terrorists, and
the Shin-Ra army is there for you.
At first glace,it's a perfect setup.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“But,I do things differently.”{NEW}
“I'll control the world with fear.
My father's way costs
far too much money.”
------------------------------
#h 5
Rufus
“You can control the hearts
of men with a little fear.
Why waste good money
on the mindless masses?
Be under no illusions…
I am not my father.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Well,you sure like making
speeches the same way he did.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Take {AERIS} and
get outta the building!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“What?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'll explain later!
{BARRET}!
This is a real crisis for the planet!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Hell's that supposed to mean?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'll talk about it later!
Just trust me on this!
I'll catch up with you
after I take care of him!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“All right,{CLOUD}!”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Why do you want to fight me?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“You seek Sephiroth
and the Promised Land.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“That's right.”
------------------------------
Rufus
“Hm? Did you know that
Sephiroth is an Ancient?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…Makes sense.
Anyway,I can't let either you OR
Sephiroth have the Promised Land!”
------------------------------
Rufus
“I see.
I guess we won't be friends.”
------------------------------
To access the menu press {PURPLE}[MENU]{WHITE}
To remove Materia from members press {PURPLE}[SWITCH]{WHITE}
When you are ready press {PURPLE}[START]{WHITE}.
------------------------------

PSX was even worse, there the line was "I'll let you hear my new appointment speech"
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-20 06:36:19
R003 released. 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-04-22 15:40:14
Quote
[03:08] <DLPB> turns out president shinra is called "President"  it is not a title
[03:09] <Covarr> lol
[03:09] <DLPB> he is called President. hahaha.  Rufus refers to himself as "head of shin-ra company" he is never referred to as a president....   The japanese seem to have made a pun on president, making  shinra called president
[03:10] <DLPB> but f*ck that
[03:10] <DLPB> no western audience would get it

Are you going to try and preserve that there was a joke there at all? I'm not sure how you'd go about doing that, but that's absolute hilarity I'd be sad to lose completely. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-22 15:46:41
There's just no way to preserve it... A western audience cannot hope to either take it seriously or even understand it.  I would also then have to change the title to "Head of the Shin-Ra company" instead of President (which is more accurate to the Japanese but kinda sounds like a poor localisation).  You couldn't have "The president, President Shinra",  It is hilarious though!   ;D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-04-22 23:40:32
Tranquilizer is spelled Tranquilliser in British (not Tranquiliser).  2 l's.  Also, "has been devised" dialogue for gaining limit break is outside the box.  Thanks Kranmer.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: PitBrat on 2012-04-30 19:29:07
As for the "President, President" joke, one could retain the joke with something akin to "Supreme Leader, President."  But it comes at the expense of an accurate translation. 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-05-03 08:02:33
@PitBrat: Yeah, its an unfortunate loss, but I'd much rather accuracy than one silly little joke. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-03 10:35:36
Aye...  it is sad we can't get the pun in there.  When I started this project I was rather naive about the Japanese language and thought everything would work in some way, but that simply isn't it at all.  Some things have to be sacrificed.  The problem I have with the original and with FF6 (Woolsey) is that they take too many liberties and make too many mistakes.

Enhancing the material whilst sticking to accuracy as much as is possible is preferable to doing what the hell you want.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Thad on 2012-05-09 21:30:43
Checking in; bit late to the party and could be that I'm once again correcting things you've already caught.  But just in case:

{RED XIII}
“The Promised Land?
   That's just a legend?”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“But an enthralling legend.
   So enticing that it must be persued.”{NEW}

"That's just a legend" isn't a question; I'd say put either a period or an exclamation point there, or even an ellipsis depending on how you read Red's mood there.

And "pursued", not "persued".
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-09 22:03:39
No, a question mark after a sentence like that is fine, it means the person is saying it expecting a response (in person you'd have facial expressions and what not).  It is perfectly OK in script.  Without the question mark it would be said as if it was a fact.  Red is unsure if it is or isn't.  "Isn't that just a legend"  is the same thing, but people do not always talk perfectly.

Spelling mistake corrected, cheers :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-05-14 07:30:20
Aye...  it is sad we can't get the pun in there.  When I started this project I was rather naive about the Japanese language and thought everything would work in some way, but that simply isn't it at all.  Some things have to be sacrificed.  The problem I have with the original and with FF6 (Woolsey) is that they take too many liberties and make too many mistakes.

Enhancing the material whilst sticking to accuracy as much as is possible is preferable to doing what the hell you want.

Oh my gosh, right? One of the first things I learned when I began teaching myself the language (I know enough to watch some raw anime at this point) is foreign languages aren't just word swaps and things get lost even in the best cases. If a few puns are the greatest things lost in this retranslation, you are all pretty much gods. I finally get what you meant by this not being a direct translation of the Japanese - meaning is more important than what's actually there, and that's what all translations should be imo.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-16 15:07:27
I think the new is quirkier.  8)

Old
Code: [Select]
Rude
“…Reno said he wanted to
see you after the injuries
you gave him healed.”{NEW}
“He wants to show
his affection for you all…
with a new weapon.”

New
Code: [Select]
Rude
“…Leno sends his kind regards.
He's hoping to meet you
as soon as the injuries
you gave him heal up.”{NEW}
“Now you are best friends,
he wants to share his
new weapon with you all.”


Old
Code: [Select]
Mythril Mine
------------------------------
Rude
“Just a second!”
------------------------------
Rude
“…”
------------------------------
Rude
“Do you know who I am?”
{CHOICE}The Turks, right?
{CHOICE}Not interested
------------------------------
Rude
“…I'm from the Turks.
And don't you forget it.”
------------------------------
Rude
“Well if you know,
then this won't take long.”
------------------------------
Rude
“It's difficult to explain
what the Turks do…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Kidnapping, right?”
------------------------------
Rude
“To put it negatively…
you could say that.”
------------------------------
Rude
“…But, that's not all
there is to it anymore.”
------------------------------
Elena
“It's all right, Rude!
I know you don't like speeches,
so don't force it!”
------------------------------
Rude
“Then explain, Elena.”
------------------------------
Elena
“I'm the newest member of
the Turks, Elena.
Thanks to what you did to Reno,
we're short-handed.”
------------------------------
Elena
“…But, because of that,
I got promoted to the Turks…”
------------------------------
Elena
“Anyhow, our job is to find out
where Sephiroth is headed.”{NEW}
“And to try and stop you
every step of the way.”
------------------------------
Elena
“Wait a minute,
it's the other way around…
You're the ones that are
getting in our way.”
------------------------------
Tseng
“…Elena.
You talk too much.”
------------------------------
Elena
“Sorry…Tseng.”
------------------------------
Tseng
“I thought I gave your orders.”{NEW}
“Now go.
Don't forget to file your report.”
------------------------------
Rude
“…Reno said he wanted to
see you after the injuries
you gave him healed.”{NEW}
“He wants to show
his affection for you all…
with a new weapon.”
------------------------------
Tseng
“Well, then…”
------------------------------
Tseng
“Where's {AERIS}?
Isn't she with you?”
------------------------------
Tseng
“Oh…
Then give her my regards.”
------------------------------
Tseng
“{AERIS}…
Long time no see.”
------------------------------
Tseng
“Looks like you're safe
from the Shinra for a while,
now that Sephiroth reappeared.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“What are you saying?
That I should be grateful to Sephiroth?”
------------------------------
Tseng
“No…”{NEW}
“I won't be seeing much of you,
so take care.”
------------------------------
Tseng
“Well then,
stay out of Shinra's way.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“{AERIS} isn't with us.
She's with the others.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Wh, who are you!?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“By any chance, are you…?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Who are you?”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“…
I hoped I'd never see you again…”
------------------------------

{CHOICE}“Sir!”{CHOICE}

------------------------------
Elena
“Mr. Tseng!?”
------------------------------
Tseng
“No need to tell them
about our orders.”
------------------------------
Rude/Elena
“Yes sir!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“…Strange, hearing
that from you.”
------------------------------
Elena
“Oh! Right!”
------------------------------
Tseng
“…Elena.
You don't seem to understand.”
------------------------------
Elena
“Oh!{PAUSE 30}
I'm, I'm sorry…”
------------------------------
Tseng
“…Go.
Don't let Sephiroth get away.”
------------------------------
Elena
“Very well, Rude and I will
go after Sephiroth, who's heading
for {CYAN}Junon Harbor{WHITE}!”
------------------------------

New
Code: [Select]
Mithril Mine
------------------------------
Rude
“Just a second!”
------------------------------
Rude
“…”
------------------------------
Rude
“Do you know who I am?”
{CHOICE}The Turks,right?
{CHOICE}I'm not interested
------------------------------
Rude
“…I'm from the Turks.
And don't you forget it.”
------------------------------
Rude
“Well if you already know,
then this won't take long…”
------------------------------
Rude
“It's difficult to explain
what the Turks do…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Abducting people?”
------------------------------
Rude
“To put it negatively…
you could say that.”
------------------------------
Rude
“…But there's more to it these days.”
------------------------------
Yrena
“Rude!
I know you don't like speeches,
so don't force it!”
------------------------------
Rude
“…I'll leave this to you then,Yrena.”
------------------------------
Yrena
“I'm the newest member of
the Turks,Yrena.
Thanks to what you did to Leno,
we're short-handed.”
------------------------------
Yrena
“…Although,because of that,
I was accepted into the Turks…”
------------------------------
Yrena
“At any rate,
our orders are to determine
where Sephiroth is headed.”{NEW}
“And to make your life difficult
every step of the way.”
------------------------------
Yrena
“Hang on,
it's the other way around…
You're the ones getting in our way.”
------------------------------
Zeng
“…Yrena.
You've said more than enough.”
------------------------------
Yrena
“Sorry… Mr.Zeng.”
------------------------------
Zeng
“I thought I gave
you your orders.”{NEW}
“Go.
Do not fail to report
back as instructed.”
------------------------------
Rude
“…Leno sends his kind regards.
He's hoping to meet you
as soon as the injuries
you gave him heal up.”{NEW}
“Now you're best friends,
he wants to share his
new weapon with you all.”
------------------------------
Zeng
“Well then…”
------------------------------
Zeng
“…{AERIS}?
Isn't she with you?”
------------------------------
Zeng
“I see…
Then give her my best wishes.”
------------------------------
Zeng
“{AERIS}…
It's been a while.”
------------------------------
Zeng
“Now that Sephiroth's reappeared,
as far as Shin-Ra's concerned,
you're no longer a priority.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“What are you saying?
That I should be grateful to Sephiroth?”
------------------------------
Zeng
“No…”{NEW}
“But we'll be seeing less of each other,
so take care.”
------------------------------
Zeng
“Well then,gentlemen.
I would very much appreciate it
if you'd stay out of Shin-Ra's way.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“{AERIS} isn't here.
She's with the others.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Wh-who the hell're you!?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“By any chance,are you…?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Who are you?”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“…
Now that's a face I didn't care to see.”
------------------------------

{CHOICE}“Sir!”{CHOICE}
------------------------------
Yrena
“Mr. Zeng!?”
------------------------------
Zeng
“They don't need to
know our orders.”
------------------------------
Rude/Yrena
“Yes sir!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“…Strange,hearing
that from you.”
------------------------------
Yrena
“Ah! That's right!”
------------------------------
Zeng
“…Yrena.
Can you understand the
words that are leaving my lips?”
------------------------------
Yrena
“Ah!{PAUSE 30}
I'm,I'm sorry…”
------------------------------
Zeng
“…Go.
Don't let Sephiroth get away.”
------------------------------
Yrena
“Very well,
Rude and I will go after Sephiroth,
who's heading for {CYAN}Junon Harbour{WHITE}!”
------------------------------
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-17 00:39:56
Dialogue (completed): 330/553
Dialogue (not completed): 223
Dialogue: 525KB of 1350KB (39%)

One last for now:

Old
Code: [Select]
Inn: 2f
------------------------------
{CLOUD}'s Past
------------------------------
{PAUSE 30}Received "Megalixir"!
------------------------------
Empty…
------------------------------
Can't reach it…
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Damn!!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Oh! You!!”
------------------------------
{CID}
“…Don't mess with me!!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“{CLOUD}, you're late!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo man, you're late!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sorry to keep you waiting.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Guess everyone's here now.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“So let's hear your story…”{NEW}
“You know, the one about Sephiroth
and the crisis of the Planet.”{NEW}
“Let's hear it all.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I used to want to be like Sephiroth,
so I joined SOLDIER.”{NEW}
“After working with Sephiroth
on several missions,
we became friends.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“You call that a friend?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Yeah, well…”{NEW}
“He was older than me,
and hardly ever
talked about himself.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“So I guess you'd call us war buddies…
We trusted each other.
Until one day…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“…One day?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“After the war it was SOLDIER's
duty to put down any resistance
against the Shinra.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…That was five years ago.”{NEW}
“I was 16…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sephiroth's strength is incredible.
He is far stronger in reality
than any stories you
may have heard about him.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“So…
Where do you come in?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Me?
I was mesmerized by the
way Sephiroth fought.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…And then
we reached Nibelheim.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“I remember Jenova.
That's that damn headless spook
livin' in the Shinra building.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“That's right.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“{BARRET},
would you please let us hear what
{CLOUD} has to say?
You can ask questions later.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“{TIFA}, I was only…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“OK {CLOUD}, continue.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“The childhood friends reunite!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I was really surprised
with {TIFA}.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Damn, Shinra!
The more I hear, the more I hate 'em!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…Who would have ever
thought the Mako Reactor
held such a secret.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“{TIFA}…
Were you waiting outside then?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…Yes.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“We returned to Nibelheim.
Sephiroth confined himself to the Inn.
He didn't even try to talk to me.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Then all of a sudden he
just disappeared, right?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“We found him inside
the biggest building in Nibelheim.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“The villagers used to call
it the Shinra mansion.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Long ago, people from Shinra
used to live in that mansion…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…and that's the end of my story.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Wait a damn minute!
That's it? No more?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I don't remember.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“What happened to Sephiroth?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“In terms of skill,
I couldn't have killed him.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Official records state Sephiroth is dead.
I read it in the newspaper.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Shinra, Inc. owns the newspapers,
so you can't rely on that.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I want to know the truth.
I want to know what happened.”{NEW}
“I challenged Sephiroth and lived.
Why didn't he kill me?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…I'm alive, too.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“A lot of this doesn't make sense.
What about Jenova?
It was in the Shinra building, right?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Shinra shipped it
from Nibelheim to Midgar.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Did someone carry it out later?
It was missing from the Shinra building.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Sephiroth?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Damn!
None of this makes sense!”{NEW}
“I'm going,
going,
going,
gone!”{NEW}
“And I'm leavin' the thinkin' to you!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo, {CLOUD}!
Let's get a move on!”
{CHOICE}Wait a sec
{CHOICE}Right
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“{CLOUD}, what's wrong?
You just gonna stand there while
Sephiroth heads for the Promised Land?”{NEW}
“I ain't lettin' Sephiroth or
Shinra get to no Promised Land.
If they do,
then we're all screwed.”{NEW}
“Y'know what I'm sayin'?”
{CHOICE}Beautiful, just beautiful!
{CHOICE}Is that all?
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Jus' leave it to me!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Fine!
That's good enough.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo, c'mon let's go!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Oh brother…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“{CLOUD}?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“How bad was I after
Sephiroth stabbed me?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I thought you were a goner.
…I was so sad.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“I…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“The Ancients…Cetra…Jenova…
Sephiroth and myself…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Let's go.
{BARRET}'s waiting.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“What a fascinating story…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yeah, maybe so.
Wanna take a breather here?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Hmph!
Pokin' his damn nose in
where it don't belong.
{CLOUD}!
Why don't you finish that story?”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“(Phew……)”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“(Why you talkin' to me!?)”
{CHOICE}Save game and rest
{CHOICE}Keep talking
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…I get it.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“That would seem to explain the increase
in the number of monsters recently.”{NEW}
“I think we should listen carefully
to {CLOUD}.
Don't you think so {BARRET}?”
------------------------------

New
Code: [Select]
Inn,2F
------------------------------
{CLOUD}'s Past
------------------------------
…{PAUSE 30}Obtained "Last Elixir"!
------------------------------
Empty…
------------------------------
Can't reach it…
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…Oh,come on!!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Oh! You!!”
------------------------------
{CID}
“…Don't mess with me!!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“{CLOUD},you're late!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo,thanks for bein' on time!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sorry.
Looks like I kept you all waiting.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“That's everyone.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“So…
your story?”{NEW}
“Sephiroth…
a crisis for the planet.
Let's hear it all.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I wanted to be like Sephiroth,
so I became a Soldier.”{NEW}
“After working with Sephiroth
on several missions,
we became close friends.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“He was your friend?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Well…”{NEW}
“He was older than me,
and hardly ever
talked about himself.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“We were comrades… I guess.
We trusted each other.
Up until then…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“…Until then?”
------------------------------
#h 4
{CLOUD}
“Soldier's duty after the war
was mostly concerned with rebels
who were opposed to Shin-Ra…
A lot of that work was pretty grim.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…It was five years ago.”{NEW}
“I was sixteen…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sephiroth's strength is unreal.
He is far stronger in reality than any
of the stories you hear about him.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Hm?
So where do you come in?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Me?
I was mesmerised by
the way Sephiroth fought.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…And then we reached Niblheim.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Jenova… I remember!
That damn headless freak
in the Shin-Ra Building!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“That's right.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Hold on,{BARRET}.
Let's hear {CLOUD}'s story first.
You can ask questions later.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“C'mon,{TIFA}…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Okay {CLOUD},carry on.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“The childhood friends reunite!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…{TIFA} really surprised me.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Argh! Shin-Ra! Again!
The more I hear,
the more I hate 'em!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…Who would have thought
that a Mako reactor
could hold such a secret…?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Hmm,{TIFA}…
Did you wait outside the whole time?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…Yes.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“We returned to Niblheim.
Sephiroth confined himself to the Inn.
He didn't talk with anyone.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“And then he just disappeared.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“We found him inside the
biggest building in Niblheim.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“The villagers called it
the Shin-Ra Mansion.”{NEW}
“It was unoccupied from
before we were born…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Long ago,people from Shin-Ra
did used to live in that mansion…”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…and that's the end of my story.”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Wait a damn minute!
What happened next?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I don't remember.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“What happened to Sephiroth?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“With the kind of power he has,
I hadn't a prayer of defeating him.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Sephiroth has been declared
dead in the public records.
I read it in the newspaper.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“The Shin-Ra Company
prints the newspapers,
so you can't rely on them.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…I need to be sure…
about what happened back then.”{NEW}
“I went up against Sephiroth and survived.
Why didn't he kill me?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…I'm alive,too.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“A lot of this doesn't fit.
What about Jenova?
It was in the Shin-Ra Building,right?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Shin-Ra shipped it
from Niblheim to Midgar.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Did someone come and take it?
It's not in the Shin-Ra building anymore.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Sephiroth…?
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Aaaaargh!
I don't get any of this!”{NEW}
“I'm going,
going,
gone!!”{NEW}
“And I'm leavin' the
thinkin' to you guys!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Yo,{CLOUD}!
Get things sorted for when we leave!”
{CHOICE}Wait a sec
{CHOICE}Got it
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“{CLOUD},what're you waitin' for?
You just gonna stand there while
Sephiroth heads for the Promised Land?”{NEW}
“I ain't lettin' Sephiroth
or Shin-Ra get there.
If they do,we're all screwed.”{NEW}
“That's what I do know!”
{CHOICE}Beautiful!
{CHOICE}Is that all?
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Jus' leave it to me!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Oh,c'mon!
You don't need no more!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Let's go!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Man…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…{CLOUD}?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“How bad was I after
Sephiroth slashed me?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I thought you were a goner.
…It was awful.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“I…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“The Ancients… the Cetra… Jenova…
Sephiroth… and me…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Let's go.
{BARRET}'s waiting.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“What a fascinating story…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Y-yeah,I guess so.
Wanna take a breather here?”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Hmph,keep your nose out of it.
Oi,{CLOUD}…
Carry on with the story.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“(Hmph……)”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“(Wh-what you askin' me for!?)”
{CHOICE}Save the game and take a break
{CHOICE}Keep talking
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“…Okay.”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“Is that the reason for the increase
in monsters over the past few years?”{NEW}
“I think we should listen to {CLOUD}'s
story more carefully from here on.
Isn't that so,{BARRET}?”
------------------------------

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-05-17 17:25:36
I just wanted to say keep up the good work as this is a project I have been eagerly awaiting for some time now. As awesome as the menu overhaul project is, which it is, I was sad that this project was put on the back burner.

I enjoy reading your translation snippets but this phrase especially caught my attention. I know that grammatical errors are going to be fixed and such, so I don't bother with pointing those out if there are any, and I don't know Japanese so I can't speak for any accuracy.

But...

"With the kind of power he has, I hadn't a prayer of defeating him.”

...sounds slightly unnatural. I just can't help but picture a southern American twang when reading that. Is there anyway it could be like, "With the kind of power he has, I didn't stand a chance of defeating him." or "With the kind of power he has, I hadn't a chance of defeating him." or are they too unfaithful to the original?

Any of the three is fine I guess, maybe I just need to hear someone say that nonchalantly.

Edit: Upon reading my suggestions it looks like I am against the word prayer being used, which I'm not so I guess I should give another example: "With the kind of power he has, I didn't have a prayer of defeating him."

Also, "With the kind of power he has, I didn't have a chance of defeating him." still sounds better. I just don't really like the hadn't/prayer combo.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-17 17:46:52
I agree...  'didn't' probably works better (I have changed it), in fact I spent quite a long time with that sentence.  I suppose it also depends on taste.  SOmeone else out there will no doubt say hadn't is best and another that prayer "isn't cloud" or something haha

Also, this project has never been secondary... it has always been priority but I am at the mercy of my translator's time as well.  If he is busy, I cannot work.  Unfortunately most Japanese speakers like to whinge that the original sounds crap and then when you ask them to help with the project they won't.  Of ten that I asked, seven refused point blank, one was completely unreliable, one is busy and has abandoned us and Luksy remains the only one working on this project.
Quote
“With the kind of power he possesses,
   I didn't have a prayer of defeating him.”

Final
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-05-17 18:16:17
I agree...  'didn't' probably works better (I have changed it), in fact I spent quite a long time with that sentence.  I suppose it also depends on taste.  SOmeone else out there will no doubt say hadn't is best and another that prayer "isn't cloud" or something haha
Agreed. That's one of the reasons why I like what you've done with the project, because most of it has sounded natural IMO. And IMO, that's huge for keeping someone's interest in the dialog. There's different tones that can be interpreted in different ways by something as simple as hadn't versus didn't.

Unfortunately most Japanese speakers like to whinge that the original sounds crap and then when you ask them to help with the project they won't.
I find this to be a problem so often when trying to speak to someone with a different native language. There are so many words or phrases that don't have english equivalents, and even when English has words to match the phrases sometimes the tone or feeling of the phrase is lost. I'll ask someone what a phrase I heard means in English, and even when they can speak both fluently it's like they just had an epiphony and realized there are some thoughts that even they have trouble translating.

Also, this project has never been secondary... it has always been priority but I am at the mercy of my translator's time as well. Of ten that I asked, seven refused point blank, one was completely unreliable, one is busy and has abandoned us and Luksy remains the only one working on this project.
Sorry, my bad. Guess I should ease off the work mule. lol
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-17 20:15:36
There's so many ways that 1 part can be said alone...

"I didn't stand a chance of beating/defeating him."

"I didn't stand a chance against him."

"I didn't have a prayer of defeating him."

"I hadn't a chance against him."

"I had no chance/hope."

"I was no match for him."

"I was out of his league."

"I hadn't a hope in hell."

"I was f*ckin' doomed!"

And on and on and on. Perhaps looking at it, "I didn't stand a chance" is "more cloud".  Hard to really know what cloud would say he is fictional and I am not Kitase. 

I think "Didn't stand a chance against him"  is probably the best.  I do like to mix it up a bit though, esp with the NPC.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-05-17 23:49:33
Quote
"I didn't stand a chance against him."
Most natural and Cloud sounding IMO while keeping the meaning pretty much the same.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-18 04:06:15
old
Code: [Select]
“I wonder how many years have
   passed since then?
   I just got into town again,
   but I can't believe it…
   The whole town is back to normal,
   except for the strange people
   with black clothes all around.”{NEW}
“The town reeks of Shinra,
   but I won't go after them.
   You may think I'm running from them,
   but it's just that
   I don't want anything to do
   with Shinra anymore.
   Feels like time is running out.”{NEW}
“I'm sure you'll find this letter.
   And this gift for you. It should come in handy.
   I can't even jump anymore.
   But I hope you continue to sharpen
   your skills and remember what I taught you.”{NEW}
“To my most precious student,  From Zangan”
------------------------------
Received "Final Heaven"

new
Code: [Select]
“How many years have
passed since then,I wonder?
I've returned to the village,
but what I see here shocks me.
The whole place is back to normal,
except for some odd-looking people
in black cloaks loitering around…”{NEW}
The town reeks of Shin-Ra,
but I don't intend to go after them.
You may think I'm running away,
but I'm done being caught up in
their silly affairs.{NEW}
Well now,{TIFA},
I have to leave this house before
whoever lives here gets back…
I don't have much time.{NEW}
I feel sure that you'll find this letter.
And with that certainty,
I have hidden a gift here for you.
I think it will come in handy.
Although I would very much like to
give it to you in person,
having one of my disciples see me
all old and weak is too much to bear.
I can't even jump anymore.
I pray that you will continue to refine
the techniques I taught you.
   To my most beloved disciple,
    from Zangan.”
------------------------------
Obtained {TIFA}'s
ultimate secret art "Final Heaven"
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-18 04:43:53
last one now, for sure :P

old:
Code: [Select]
“Periodic Report to Professor Hojo”

   1  Clone Activity Report

   Unfortunately, no 'CLONES' have left
   this town this quarter.
   As previously reported, the 'CLONES 'seem
   to be sensing something.
   But all they say is, 'Reunion' or 'Sephiroth'
   and show no other signs of activity.{NEW}
   2  Confidentiality Report

   A total of eight people have visited
   this town this quarter. 
   Fortunately, none knew about
   the incident five years ago.
   Therefore, no one knows the town was restored
   exactly as it was five years ago.
   Our staff, disguised as townspeople,
   have improved their acting skills,
   and we do not report any problems
   at this time.
{CHOICE} That is all.

new:
Code: [Select]
“Periodic Report to Professor Hojo”

1. Copy Activity Record

Unfortunately,no 'Copies' have
left the village during this period.
As previously reported,
it would certainly appear that the
'Copies' are sensing something.
However,they only ever mutter
the words 'Reunion' and 'Sephiroth',
and show no desire to leave here.{NEW}
2. Confidentiality Report

A total of eight people have
visited the village this period. 
Fortunately,none of them were
aware of the incident five years ago.

No one has noticed that the village
has been restored to exactly how
it appeared before the fire.
The staff playing the villagers have
also improved on their acting skills.
There are no further issues
to report at this time.{NEW}

  End of report.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-19 18:17:39
Important part of the story...  Did they do it justice?

Old
Code: [Select]
Nibel Reactor(Int.)
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Hey! It's {CLOUD}!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Za…ck…Zac…k.
Zack…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“You remembered!!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“That's right!
It was Zack who came to Nibelheim
with Sephiroth!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Then, where were you, {CLOUD}?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“{CLOUD}…
Did you…see it all?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I saw…everything…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…You came.
…You kept your promise.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“So you really did come when I was in trouble!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sorry…
I didn't get there…sooner…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“It's all right…{CLOUD}.”
------------------------------
Sephiroth
“Just like you.”
------------------------------
Zack
“{CLOUD}…
Kill Sephiroth…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…You promised…
You promised that you'd come……
when I was in trouble…”
------------------------------

New
Code: [Select]
Nibl Mako Reactor
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Hey! That isn't you!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Za… Z…ax.
Zax…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“You remembered!!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“That's right!
It was Zax who came to
Niblheim with Sephiroth!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Then,where were you,{CLOUD}?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“{CLOUD}.
Did you… see this?”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I saw… it…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…You did come.
…You did keep your promise.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“So you really did come
when I was in a bind!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Sorry…
I didn't get there… sooner…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“It's all right… {CLOUD}.”
------------------------------
Sephiroth
“Do you really believe
the likes of you can……?”
------------------------------
Zax
“{CLOUD}…
Sephiroth… finish him.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…When I'm… in a bind…
……you said you'd come.
You promised me…”
------------------------------

....No.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2012-05-19 19:14:53
New
Code: [Select]
Nibl Mako Reactor

------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Za… Z…ax.
Zax…”
You mean Zack right?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-19 22:08:38
No, I mean Zax.  See first post :)

Quote
Zack Fair > ザックス・フェア > Zakkusu Fea > Zax Fair [possibly from Sax, old English for Knife.  There are references to it on Last Order.  Zack would be ザック not ザックス]



The installer as usual allows you to keep Zack, but Zax is very likely the correct name (regardless of whether that is now accepted canon).  Zakkusu is not Zack :)

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-05-20 15:59:37
By the way, is the dialogue 39% complete or 39% left (61% complete)?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-20 17:03:32
See the main posts.  Second post this time.  "x of y"  means how much completed.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-21 02:03:32
me and Luksy are making a push to get to 50%.  So far we are at 47%...

Getting there.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: ajthedj747 on 2012-05-21 02:27:40
Hello DLPB and Lusky,

Thank you for your contribution to the project. I just wanted to say, "Keep up the good work and don't let stress discourage you."

I have followed your progress so far for the Kalm scene, and I must say I am very impressed. This would make the staff from Square-Enix give you both a pat on the back.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-21 02:38:54
Thanks. Still need improvements to the dialogue so far... esp the start of the game since I have learned a thing or two in the time I have been doing this... but it is going well.  A final play through and shape up of the dialogue will be needed right at the end before it goes to Covarr and others to look over it for mistakes in grammar and so forth.

A long way to go.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-05-21 03:36:54
See the main posts.  Second post this time.  "x of y"  means how much completed.
My bad. I remember now that I read that like a year ago, but since the ratios you posted (223/553) were roughly the same percentage, I asked anyways for some reason.
Hello DLPB and Lusky,

Thank you for your contribution to the project. I just wanted to say, "Keep up the good work and don't let stress discourage you."

I have followed your progress so far for the Kalm scene, and I must say I am very impressed. This would make the staff from Square-Enix give you both a pat on the back.
I'm not really sure Square Enix would approve, since they used the poor translation as a base to make canon for all their horrible spinoffs.

me and Luksy are making a push to get to 50%.  So far we are at 47%...

Getting there.
I feel like one of those people who just started following someone who was running a 26 mile marathon on mile 25 going "go". Nevertheless, go!  :evil:
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-21 04:29:48
Yes it is a peculiar thing....  They actually made no attempt to change any of the mistakes apart from Aerith...

Then again, they made no attempt to stop the series being dragged through the mud.

Dialogue (completed): 349/553
Dialogue (not completed): 204
Dialogue: 604KB of 1352KB (44.67%)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: frugs on 2012-05-21 15:10:01
Hi guys, interesting job you're doing here!

I've never played Final Fantasy VII; the cuboid hands on the characters gave me an allergic reaction, and I turned off my PS after a few minutes of playing. Fortunately, the remix modpack has come to my attention, and it looks like I can finally give this acclaimed game another chance!

Somewhat less fortunately, it looks like the remix modpack is centred around the PC release, which also happens to be English-only. I'd much rather play the game in its original Japanese rather than the rather butchered translations of Square America of the 90s (which it seems, motivates your current project).

I was wondering then, the following:

A) Whether you'd be willing to provide me with a copy of the original Japanese script that you're translating from?

and

B) toughScript seems to work in UTF-8, does that mean a Japanese Language Patch would simply be a matter of getting FFVII to work with a Japanese font?

Thanks in advance,
frugs
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-21 15:11:08
A. The answer is yes.  I will upload it here shortly and on the first page. 

B.  One for Luksy, please post on the touphscript thread in tools.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: frugs on 2012-05-21 15:36:19
Thanks, I'll head over there in a sec  :D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-21 16:28:27
Sephiroth
“However,some began to dislike travelling.
   They built dwellings,
   and elected to lead an easier life.”{NEW}
“They took that which the Cetra
   and the planet had bestowed,
   and gave back not one whit in return!”


Does this work?  Seems to.

Possibly:

“They took that which the Cetra
   and the planet had bestowed,
   yet gave not a whit in return!”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-22 02:24:12
幻のニブルヘイム
 is added to documentation.  Niblheim is called "Niblheim Illusion" in the menu during sephiroth's illusion.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: FFFUUU on 2012-05-22 03:25:10
Please tell me you aren't making this literal and awkward like RPGShrine's FF6 translation.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-22 03:35:26
This has been answered already.  Read the first post.  The answer is NO.  And I resent you coming on here asking that without bothering to read through some of the examples I have placed up.  This translation is based as accurately as feasible on the original japanese without sounding unnatural and stupid.  It sometimes keeps the original English translation or rearranges it, as it is fine.  That is as good as it gets.

It will not, however, keep to the established canon or ideas simply because of fanboyism.  Because people moaned a lot that we changed character names (changed them to what they should be), I added an option in the installer to allow a person to keep the original character names.  That is as far as I will go.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: FFFUUU on 2012-05-23 06:54:32
It will not, however, keep to the established canon or ideas simply because of fanboyism.  Because people moaned a lot that we changed character names (changed them to what they should be), I added an option in the installer to allow a person to keep the original character names.  That is as far as I will go.

Even if you check "Use canon names", it still reads "Barrett" and not "Barret". I don't know if the rest are like that but either way, something's wrong.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-23 07:54:27
I don't know how that is happening, I will investigate later and see.  May be an issue with "hardcore" option?  Or maybe replacer program I made not running on your system.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-24 01:14:36
Quote
{YUFFIE}
“Hey,{CID},ya old fart!
   Do something!”{NEW}
“No way I'm dyin'
   in this crappy tin can!”

 ;D ;D ;D

Not totally literal , but captures the essence.  I added the tin can part from Luksy's too as a reference to Bowie.  8)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: FFFUUU on 2012-05-24 01:52:01
;D ;D ;D

Not totally literal , but captures the essence.  I added the tin can part from Luksy's too as a reference to Bowie.  8)

That's not how you spell "dying".
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-24 02:09:59
That's not how you spell "dying".

lmao I know that!  Well blame Luksy for that (he knows too ;))!  I could feel something wrong there!  Weird how that happens...  happened a few times actually with various words.
Quote
{YUFFIE}
“Hey,{CID},ya old fart!
   Do something!”{NEW}
“No way I'm dyin' in this
   crappy tin can of yours!”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-24 05:18:16
We are reaching the milestone of 50%.  Luksy has already gone past it and I am catching up.  Now at 48%
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-24 15:38:57
We have also injected personality into the translation.  And this part was badly done originally (Did Baskett use Google Translate?):

Old
Code: [Select]
{YUFFIE}
“Are you waiting for {CLOUD}?”{NEW}
“He's flying right now, so you can't get him.”{NEW}
“Were you going to force me
into the submarine right now?”{NEW}
“Quit it!
If you want to go, then just leave me behind.”{NEW}
“…ooooooh.
What're you talking about? I…”


New
Code: [Select]
{YUFFIE}
“{CLOUD}…
are we stuck up here?”{NEW}
“We…
can't just keep flyin' forever?”{NEW}
“Hey,now hold on!
Don't even think about
shovin' me in that sub again!”{NEW}
“I won't go! Never!
Leave me here,
leave me here!”{NEW}
“…Urrrrk.
What am I saying…?”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-25 04:00:10
Someone asked about Japanese script:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36889302/FF7/Japanese_text.7z

Use latest 7zip and decode.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-25 14:56:14
OFFICIALLY HALF DONE.  8)

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-05-26 17:09:40
Now is that 50% completed or 50% left to complete? Lol

Congrats! Now i impatiently await 75%  :-D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-27 00:32:50
FFFUUU

I have been through the Barrett issue and the only thing I can find is that if you have a bad kernel or a bad scene bin (hardcore mod would do it), the ff7.exe will be skipped leading to no translation changes. 

Please make sure you are using the original files (and delete backup-dlpb) the reinstall and see what happens.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-28 17:42:11
Time for another before and after:

Old
Code: [Select]
Ester
“Ummm…
First use {PURPLE}[ASSIST]{WHITE}
to choose either AUTO or MANUAL.”{NEW}
“This lets you control the Chocobo
yourself or lets it run on its own.”{NEW}
“But it's pretty hard to make the
Chocobo run the way you want it to.
If the Chocobo doesn't like you,
it won't listen.”{NEW}
“Then,you're stuck…”{NEW}
“But,most of the Chocobos
I have are mellow
and you should be able to
handle them.”{NEW}
“When you're riding,
use {PURPLE}[SWITCH]{WHITE} to Speed Up
and {PURPLE}[CANCEL]{WHITE} to Slow Down.”{NEW}
“But,if you go faster than
the Chocobo can handle,it will
quickly lose its stamina.”{NEW}
“Use the {PURPLE}[Directional Keys]{WHITE} to
move the Chocobo left and right,
use {PURPLE}[OK]{WHITE}
to get a boost of speed.”{NEW}
“But this makes your stamina
run out faster.”{NEW}
“Some Chocobos are bad-tempered
and can't pace themselves.
They'll lose their
stamina quickly.”{NEW}
“Those Chocobos should be
set on Manual
to slow them down.”{NEW}
“Finally,some advice
for the restless. Once
the first and second Chocobo
cross the goal line,”{NEW}
“Press {PURPLE}[START]{WHITE}
to end the race.”
------------------------------

New
Code: [Select]
Esto
“Righto…”{NEW}
“First,use {PURPLE}[ASSIST]{WHITE} to switch
between Auto and Manual.
You choose between controlling it
yourself or letting it run on its own.”{NEW}
“It's actually quite hard to make
a Chocobo do what you want.
If you've not bonded with it,
it won't listen to a word you say.”{NEW}
“That can't be helped
this time,unfortunately.”{NEW}
“Well,nevermind.
Most of the Chocobos
I prepare are quite mellow,
so you should be be fine.”{NEW}
“When you're in control,use
{PURPLE}[SWITCH]{WHITE} to speed up,
{PURPLE}[CANCEL]{WHITE} to slow down.”{NEW}
“But watch out…
If you push a Chocobo
faster than it can handle,it'll
lose its stamina in no time.”{NEW}
“You can guide the Chocobo
with the {PURPLE}[Directional Keys]{WHITE}.
To make it sprint,use the
whip by pressing {PURPLE}[OK]{WHITE}.”{NEW}
“Obviously,its stamina will
run out a lot faster this way.”{NEW}
“A Chocobo with poor
temperament doesn't know
its own pace and can wear
itself out almost immediately.”{NEW}
“If you're dealing with a
Chocobo like that,switch
to Manual and slow it down.”{NEW}
“Finally,
some advice for the restless.
Once first and second
place have been decided…”{NEW}
“…you can press
{PURPLE}[START]{WHITE} to end the race.”

I am also going back over the game from the beginning correcting some of my more clunky dialogue which was made from a lack of experience ;)

So new is:

Code: [Select]
District 1,Station
--------------------------------------------------
Biggs
“Wow…
You're from Soldier,all right!”{NEW}
“But… one of theirs
in a group like Avalanche…!?”
--------------------------------------------------
Jessie
“…Soldier? They're the enemy…”
--------------------------------------------------
Jessie
“Why would a Soldier join Avalanche?”
--------------------------------------------------
#h 3
Biggs
“Hang on,Jessie,
he quit Shin-Ra…
He's with us now.”
--------------------------------------------------
Biggs
“I didn't catch your name…”
--------------------------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“…{CLOUD}.”
--------------------------------------------------
Biggs
“{CLOUD},eh? I'm…”
--------------------------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“I'm not interested in names.
Once the job's done… I'm gone.”
--------------------------------------------------
“What the hell you all doin'!?
I told ya… never move in a group!”
--------------------------------------------------
“Our target's Mako Reactor 1.
Meet up at the bridge in front of it.”
--------------------------------------------------
“Ex-Soldier,huh?
Don't trust ya!”
--------------------------------------------------
{BARRET}
“You can run by
holdin' {PURPLE}[Cancel]{WHITE} with
the {PURPLE}[Directional Keys]{WHITE}.
Keep up with me!”
--------------------------------------------------

Soldier and 'a Soldier' are like the Marines.  So the 2 are used interchangeably.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-28 18:58:09
FF7 has an estimated 150000-180000 words.  (inc the battle text, kernel text).  I knew it had a lot of text but damn man, I didn't understand it until I started going through it all.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-29 07:02:31
In the coming days I am gonna be looking through this entire document and making a few minor concessions to literal vs localised. As you know, where possible I try to keep the actual intended translation unless it simply doesn't work or is too awkward.

In the past I have overlooked slightly awkward things but I will be looking at them again.  Only a minority of things will need changing, but the major one I am leaning towards is "Armour" making a return.  Luksy seems to agree that although Protections is intended and some of the items in the game cannot be armours (I mean bands and bangles are not armours), it may be wise to keep the other as it is a standard.

I have also decided to make items and materias you gain have a new format.  No more

Obtained "Masamune Blade"!

Instead the new format is

Obtained
     Masamune Blade!

Where Masamune blade will be in white.  We will see how it goes.

The materia will be coloured properly according to type.

(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36889302/FF7/Green.PNG)


A full break down of colours is:

Red: Summon Materia

Green: Magic Materia and sometimes highlighted dialogue.

Blue: Support Materia

Yellow: Command Materia

Purple: Independent Materia, menu names and controls.

Cyan:  Place names

Grey:  dialogue flash back scenes.

White:  Items.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Gemini on 2012-05-29 11:32:44
Giving colors to items, places, and whatnot doesn't seem like a correction you should make, since you're adding something that wasn't there in the first place (and that's the main reason why you are retranslating: preserve the original material and providing better options when it's necessary). The original has other manners for making key words stick out.

As for the "Obtained X" string, I would go and fix the articles whenever necessary. "Obtained the Masamune" sounds more natural and that's what you'd usually find.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2012-05-29 17:49:53
Well i actually prefer it with colours my mind get's bored just reading white text putting colours will make it much nicer and wake me up and seem more modern/updated
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-29 18:17:52
The colours make no change to the translation.  Sure they were not there originally, but I think they add something to the game.  I can't see it hurting here to change the colour really...  and it does look better than simple white all the time.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-05-29 18:27:12
I personally think that it is a great idea, especially since during my first playthrough of the game I hated having to search through my inventory when I recieved something to see what it was. Obviously I am not talking about picking up a materia, because you could obviously see it, but when you open a chest, steal from an enemy, or are given something from a side quest it would be nice to know what type of item it was.

The only problem I would see that may arise is from tutorial messages perhaps, unless you have separate colors for them.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-29 18:30:08
Tutorials can only be 1 colour anyway, they don't accept other flags.  This would only be for the "Obtained" text.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-29 21:58:59
Actually it looks OK for normal text too, and stops the pesky "All Materia" confusion.  Bonus.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-30 05:39:50
It took me 6 hours straight to fix some dialogue errors and update the text to include the new colours and format.

I must be literally mad.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Jaki on 2012-05-30 09:53:23
Damn! You must have one or more people help you to complete this mod.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-30 13:03:48
Please note, some kind fellows over at FF Wiki are again taking things we learned and giving no credit whatsoever, which sucks.  A bit of recognition for the hours of research would not go amiss.

The following is almost  final.  I have gone through all the things we have changed and made concessions for anything which was overly literal. I was surprised to find that 65 Attack names needed change.

I hope this goes someway to dispelling the myth that I want a literal sounding piece of crap.



Changes:



     Obtained
            Dragoon Lance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyx

(Unless we call it Hydra Scales or something...  which keeps the sea monster connection in there)
Enemies and moves

Superball becomes Super Ball

Snap becomes Teeth Snap

Whole Body Tail becomes Tail

Defence End becomes Defence Down

Defence Start becomes Defence Up

Double Brain becomes Dual Brain

Energy Absorb becomes Absorb Energy

Big Eruption becomes Violent Eruption (dictionary gives this as one of the choices)

Great Tsunami becomes Mega-tsunami

Jumping Cartilage Sword becomes Jumping Sword (the other move establishes what the sword is)

Almost all Confuse become Confusion, as that is correct.

Lightning Strike goes back to Lightning

Magic Draining Cartilage Sword becomes Draining Sword

Neo Turk's Ray becomes Neo Turks' Ray (grammar was wrong)

Petrification Smog becomes Petrifying Smog

Petrification Finger becomes Petrifying Finger

Sad Yin Attack becomes Sad Yin

Shell Defence becomes Shell

Shield Defence becomes Shielding

Solo Wing Shot  goes back to Solo Wing Fire

Harmful Smog becomes Toxic Smog

Ultra Harmful Smog becomes Deadly Smog

Petrification Glare becomes Petrifying Glare

Powerful Kick becomes Power Kick

Violent Earthquake becomes Megathrust (which is a liberty.  See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megathrust_earthquake)

Triangular Attack becomes Triangular Offensive

Turk's Ray becomes Turks' Ray

Sword Upper becomes Sword Uppercut

Verbal Attack becomes Verbal Assault

Double Shield Throw becomes Shields Throw

Frog Petrification goes back to  Petrified Frog

Insulter becomes Insult

Before Firing becomes Loading Cannon

Big Mouth Breath goes back to Big Breath

Big Sound Wave becomes Super Sound

Big Rotation becomes Big Turn

Finger Shot becomes Finger Fire

Freezing Finger Shot becomes Freezing Finger Fire

Consecutive Claw becomes Continuous Claw

Cursing Words becomes Hex

Damage Attack becomes Damage

Dangerous Sting becomes Deadly Sting

Electric Discharge becomes Arc

Diverting Magnetic Field becomes Diverting Field

Fire Shot becomes Fire Blast

Flame Shot becomes Flame Dart

Flap Wings goes back to Flap

Flying Upper becomes Flying Uppercut

Glass Smash becomes Smash Glass

Head Attack becomes Head Charge

Big headhunting becomes Full Headhunting

Bubble Hell goes back to Hell Bubbles

Icicle Fall goes back to Icicle Drop

Last Left breath becomes Left's last breath
Last Right breath becomes Right's last breath

Paralysis Laser becomes Paralysing Laser

Scissor Tornado becomes Tornado Scissor

Shoulder Attack becomes Shoulder Barge

Slap becomes Face Slap

Sonic Attack becomes Sonic Strike

Spider Attack becomes Spider Thrust

Sword Attack becomes Sword

Drain Tentacle goes back to Tentacle Drain

Triple Attack becomes Triple Assault

Maybe I should call Petrifying Glare Medusa ;)  or is this a step too far  :-D


Things being looked into:

Twin-Dragon Fang

Any help appreciated with this.  The "fang" has to stay though no matter what.


Echo Screen > やまびこえんまく > Echo Smokescreen

Looking into this one again since やまびこ seems to have some connection with
http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B1%B1%E5%BD%A6

I can't read a word of that so I await Luksy's input.  It may be that when all is said and done "Smokescreen" on its own suffices... or it could be that this is some sort of legend that needs to be preserved.


Flower Prong   
フラワープラング
furawaapurangu
Flower Plunge

I am sticking with this for now even though kana does not match.  Funny thing to note is that プラン are plan (and this enemy is a plant).  Any relevance?


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-05-30 13:21:21
Yeah! Nyx=νυξ=night (Nyx represents the Goddess of night)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-30 13:25:39
That also brings to an end my day.  I have been working on FF7 now since 12 last night, with around 2 hours break overall... that means I have been working on it 12 hours of 14.  Mad.

Reminds me actually...  On another forum a year or so ago, I was told that I don't really like FF7... that I must hate it, because I want to change it.  I'd love to punch the person who said that after what I just went through.  :-D

This is definitely the hardest thing I have had to do for any project anywhere... with 150000-180000 words... and so much formatting and localising and researching, it has taken considerable time to get this far alone.

If Baskett really did do the localising alone, it is no wonder he had such a hard time with the lack of support he got.  This is not a 1 or 2 man job...  it really needs  a good team to do it properly in an acceptable time frame (what we are doing is doing it properly in an unacceptable time frame).  So now I can see why the original translation was not up to scratch.  The work needed in there is not normal.  I can't emphasise that enough.

The amount of time needed is crazy.  I won't be beaten though!  By hook or by f*cking crook, this project is getting finished to a standard I am happy with.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-30 14:46:46
I have just added a few more changes above this post like Revive Materia

Revive > Rebirth
Rise > Life
Araise > Lifa

So what am I saying with all these changes?

I am saying that I was wrong.  :o  I was wrong to be completely gung ho with the adherence to accuracy at all times.  There is a small degree of lee way.  For the most part (like 95%) the actual 1:1 meanings are perfectly fine... but sometimes like above they just aren't.  The fundamental problem I have with most fan translations and of Baskett's original is that they take TOO MANY liberties.. and make too many mistakes.  For example, I could easily call Quake "Tremor" but what you get out of it cannot justify changing the work.

So yeah, I was wrong to be so hell bent on being "as literal as possible" before, but at the same time, it was also a good thing because it has made me very careful.  I think I am happy with all the non dialogue now...

The dialogue has given me a new perspective on localisation... that sometimes sacrifices must be made.  I understand now that invoking the same feelings in a person and capturing how the scene was meant to be felt and understood, is more important than an absolutely strict translation.

The dialogue has never been literal really, I always viewed it separate to non dialogue... but now I don't.  I see the whole project as one complete package. 

Don't expect me to be making many more concessions, if any at all... after the 70+ changes I have made today, I feel I now have the balance right.

If you do have a suggestion you can always tell me.
 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: saftle on 2012-05-30 21:51:25
I am relatively new to the FF7 modding scene and to this site, however I thought I'd say that that this project is outstanding so far.

Even though I beat FF7 nearly 13 years ago, I already notice so many changes since playing it then. The original English translation was definitely lacking. It wasn't even the grammar that really bugged me. It was more along the lines of just being confusing at times with how they chose to translate it.

Thank you for this project and I cannot wait for new updates. This is my first time playing FF7 in 13 years and your project has greatly enhanced the experience. I am also thankful to all those that have contributed.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-30 21:57:17
Still a long way to go...  after this project gets to 100%, a full run through will be needed to correct boxes, grammar and unnatural sentences...  I will get to a stage though where I am happy.

It is weird how it happens... for example, in the early days I was happy with

"Wow!  Just what I expected from Soldier!
But.. one of theirs in a group like Avalanche"

Then I went back months later and realised it sounded... crap.  So now it is

"wow! You're from Soldier, all right!" 

As you can see... these things are difficult to tie down... that is the skill here.

Thanks for that :)

IN other news, I am now finishing off the main excel document which will be placed on google for online viewing, rather than the clunky first posts here
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-05-31 10:23:56
I've got a question in regard to Seto ie Red XIII/Nanaki's father. I wouldn't have thought of this if it wasn't for the absolutely massive amount of mythological references made in Final Fantasy and Squaresoft/Enix games, but...

It there any possibility it's instead supposed to be Set/Seth/Sutekh/It's all pronounced the same but no one can agree on a romanization, in reference to the Ancient Egyptian deity? I know due to other things I'm a big fan of that the katakana used for that god is "セト". Set would still maintain accuracy to the katakana if I understand katakana rules right, too. Here's the Wikipedia page on the god: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set_%28mythology%29

In other news, I really like how you've set up the Item Get screen. I've got mixed feelings about the colors (I'm not fond of changes that don't exist for clarity and/or maintaining meaning) but the layout looks really nice.

Also how the heck does someone get the idea that you aren't a fan?! That smells an awful lot like you're getting burned by the video game version of the sub vs dub war...
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-05-31 13:39:12
Yeah I have already spotted the "set" thing, and left it alone.

The problem with the argument for the god here is that there is no way to tell...  with nearly all the other changes, it is perfectly obvious that a mistake has been made... there is something to go on.  But with Seto...  the kana gives no clue whatsoever on what was intended.

It could be any number of variants, including Set...  and Seth .

Without more to go on I have to leave things alone.

[ Also, Seto apparently means "Hidden" or "back door" in Japanese. sounds dubious to me, I will get Luksy to have a look)

also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-05-31 14:22:44
Ah, okay. If you've thought of it that's fine. I'd probably go with Set to be accurate to both possibilities, but that's just me. It really is a minor thing. I'm... actually not envious of the choices you've had to make. XD edi

Edit due to your edit: I'm aware of the Hebrew Seth too - I've got an OC based on him, actually. If that potential translation is possible though, that lends the best evidence that Seto is what was intended. It honestly feels a better fit than any of the mythological connections.

So really, it is probably best to err on the side of caution and go straight from the katakana like you're doing. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-01 22:38:10
Luksy says that is pretty bogus anyway....  but I do recall a production staff interview where they were asked about origin of Seto.  I think it was Nomura being asked and he said someone else in team named him and had his reasons.  He could not verify it...  but I recall the interviewer making an argument that SE-TO came from somewhere amusing.  It was not a mythology.  Nomura said "I wouldn't put it past him"

Shame I can't find that interview.  I will leave it as Seto until there is more to go on.

In other news, I am almost done documenting these things and making a final update to the non dialogue.  I have been in contact with Luksy a lot with these and I will place up all the changes that we are making here on this thread. So far there have been 138 changes made across the board to abolish the more literal stuff.

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-02 09:29:44
Documentation is finished. I have been through whole document (2241 records) twice.  Tomorrow is the final check.  So far (and this isn't likely to rise much) the total number of changes is 183 (8%).

Most of those things are enemy moves and literal stuff.  I will document all changes in full later.


The non-dialogue documentation is now Here (http://RocketRonnie.net/FINAL_FANTASY_VII_TEXT_DOCUMENTATION_BY_DLPB.htm)

Things marked in  yellow are either changed or being looked at to change. 





Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-02 15:37:57
I am glad you decided against the literal for "Omnislash."
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-02 20:16:33
no one in their right mind could hope to keep the literal for that....  :-D

In fact... what is more hilarious is, they've started using "Omnislash" in some of the Japanese games involving VII (not sure which ones).
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-03 18:07:13
It becomes even more amusing when you imagine him shouting that in the middle of battle ala anime attacks. I had no expectations for the literal to be kept on that, that would just be silly. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-03 18:11:53
Documentation and checking is now completed.  It took around 30 hours total. I am now going to discuss a few things with luksy and then update the game files.

Of 2202 entries, 236 (11%) need to be changed and 10 need looking at again.  I will document the changes in my next post.

For example.

Big Eruption > Cataclysm
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: gramtastic on 2012-06-04 00:47:08
I registered for this site just to contribute a few of my thoughts in regard to this particular project. I'm afraid I might stir up a bit of controversy with some of my views on grammar and translation, but bear in mind that these are just my personal feelings. I would not try to cram them down anyone's throat.

First of all, I think this is a really interesting idea. I always wondered why no one in the ROM-hacking community took much interest in messing with this game. Considering just how awful the English script is, FFVII is a perfect candidate for re-translation. (right beside FFTactics, which deserves an honorable mention)

Now, I'm not one of these guys who gets all cutthroat about literal accuracy. I do favor translators like Alexander Smith, who uses an artistic license in order to give game scripts an era-specific feel. My biggest gripe is with inconsistencies in grammar. English is a very diverse language, and I don't think everyone can agree on a single system of orthography, nor a specific dialect. What bugs me most is when people from all sorts of backgrounds start to collaborate on a project, and the result reads like a Wikipedia page with mixed U.S. / U.K. spelling and grammar. Real localization departments focus on whatever orthographic choices are the norm within whatever region they're bringing the game to. There is some exception to PAL games, as lazy localization teams might simply recycle the U.S. script without making any changes. Final Fantasy games have probably done this on a number of occasions.

If you've read this far, you've probably gathered from my own spelling that I'm from the U.S. This brings me to the controversial part. I don't particularly like U.K. orthography. The idea that U.K. orthography is "proper English" is very much nonsense. You have to understand that English is a Germanic language, but it eventually married in Latin, then other etymologies. U.K. English in particular bases a good bit of its orthography on French. This is where I have a problem. I have nothing against the French language, but I don't think it has any business marrying into English. Yes, a lot of the vocabulary in Modern English was borrowed from French, but that doesn't mean we need to retain their orthography as well. That just taxes English-speakers with yet another set of orthographic rules to remember, and our language is desperately inconsistent as it is. The idea behind many of the reforms that took place in U.S. English was that we would truncate some of the excrescence in our orthography; thus words like "analogue" would be spelled "analog," because the -ue is not pronounced. The -ue would indicate something when read / written in actual French, but we're not speaking French - we're speaking English. The various oddities in their orthography have no grammatical purpose in English, and that's all that matters.

Rules like this are technically supposedly to be leveled all throughout U.S. English. This means, for instance, that we would would have the following word variations: Demagog, synagog, analog, prolog, epilog, dialog, and so forth. Few of these would actually be recognized by dictionaries. Unfortunately, few people would bother to level this rule, or even be aware of it. When I write something, I do level my grammar. Some people have complained that it looks awkward, but I'm very technical about these details. I believe that the more we can simplify and organize English, the easier it will be for future generations to deal with language acquisition, and for English to be learned on a secondary basis. With current dialectal differences, it's just too messy. When people are exposed to multiple dialects and orthographic rules, they tend to confuse usage, believing that different rules actually have some kind of context-specific usage aside one another. Maybe that's another subject entirely, though...

Next, we have to consider dialectal differences themselves. I don't mean calling a room an apartment versus calling it a flat, but differences that are a bit more tedious. To throw out a few examples:

 - In the U.K., it's common for speakers to level which as a relative pronoun, even though it's incorrect. The historical usage rule is thus: that is used for restrictive clauses, and which is used for non-restrictive clauses. (with a few exceptions) If you're not sure what I'm talking about, I can elaborate further the next time I reply.

 - In the U.K., it's also common to refer to some group names with plural indicatives. This is also incorrect. The name of a group generally acts as a singular noun, unless it's clearly plural. Consider a couple of examples: "The Beatles are a musical group" would be fine, but "Aerosmith are a musical group" would not. The latter would require the singular indicative is. In the interest of leveling this rule consistently, we may even want to say, "The Beatles is a musical group." I propose this because we would also use the singular indicative in the same sense as, "A group of musicians is about to begin a concert." (is refers to the group - a singular noun; "The Beatles" is also a singular noun, referring to the group as a single entity)

 - The god-awful excrescence that appears in words like whilst, amongst, amidst, midst, etc. It's typical in U.K. dialects, but you'll occasionally hear it in U.S. English and abroad. The -st is a form of excrescence that resulted from confusion with superlatives, (don't even ask me how anyone confused superlatives with prepositions) and serves no function at all. The correct variations are: While, (both as a conjunction and a noun) among, and amid. Midst is a bit complicated. While excrescent, there isn't really a grammatical version of it. Instead of saying midst, I would just say, "in the middle of." I can never talk anyone out of this one. People who elect to use excrescent words seem to insist that they're perfectly viable, even though they sound incredibly ridiculous and pollute our vocabulary with even more pointless variations of the same things. When it comes to translations, I avoid them at all costs.

 - The less odious but still excrescent variations: Towards, backwards, forwards, upwards, onwards, anyways, etc. The -ward words are all taken from the same etymology, and absolutely are NOT supposed to be suffixed with the -s. I realize that backwards is especially common all throughout English, but I promise that it is also incorrect. You will, again, encounter these more often in U.K. English than U.S. English.

 - All right versus alright. This one has a complicated history. Authors would typically insist that you use all right, but many people (or even professional translations) occasionally use alright. All right is something of an unspoken rule when it comes to passing oneself off as a professional writer. If you defy it, some people will actually dismiss you as being just plain lousy. I don't get onto anyone's case for using alright, but I do admit that it bugs me, simply because I get OCD about these things.

 - More debate on French orthography appearing in English: The French LL versus the U.S. L - traveller versus traveler, cancelled versus cancel, etc. The extra L doesn't serve any grammatical function in English. How about cheque versus check? Aeroplane versus airplane? There are quite a lot of these to take into consideration. Do you really want characters in FFVII to be spouting any of this? Is your target audience going to raise a few brows?

My suggestion is to pick a single dialect and take it to the absolute extreme. It's going to be the most comfortable for your audience. If you think FFVII is best approached with U.S. grammar, then level every single usage rule without any inconsistencies. If you produce something that looks like a Wikipedia collaboration, then it's probably going to garner criticism for poor translation. Japanese localization teams get enough heat because of perceived "Engrish" based on these very same inconsistencies. In FFIV, for instance, you have a largely U.S. script, but with little oddities like defence instead of defense. Let's please not repeat any of that.

EDIT: Let me also point out that there are some glaring issues in having an amateur translation team. English is a difficult language to wield, and too many native speakers misunderstand some of its intricacies unless they're backed by a good college education. A fine example is the subjunctive mood. Your typical English speaker (no matter where they're from) is only going to get this right about 60% of the time. Some people may not understand why it's odd to have sentences like, "What if I was?" instead of, "What if I were?" but it can make all the difference in being taken seriously. Another example is the usage of relative pronouns. Again, some people may not find it odd to say, "The person that..." instead of "The person who..." but it can make all the difference. Using these interchangeably is sometimes crucial in establishing a character's unique manner of speaking. A character like Barret would probably use a lot of incorrect subjunctives, relative pronouns, and is-leveling (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Is-leveling) to reflect his rough background. Characters like Vincent would probably be more counteractive, using proper subjunctives and the like. I would suggest having someone who understands this stuff in your editing team.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 01:20:57
Well I will start with the last paragraph.  I do understand it.  Barrett does not use proper English.  At all.  He uses slangy English.  Please give me an example of where I have used proper english with Barrett?  (the newer stuff I have changed and amended even more so, but that is not released yet).  Vincent on the other hand has been localised precisely the way you describe.

I agree that "was" and "were"  are important, but again... the vast majority of Barrett's dialogue conforms to slang and to rough speech. 

I can sum up the remainder of your post with my own personal feelings on the matter.  But before that, please note that the installer ALLOWS American spellings to override the British.   My feelings are this.  My country invented the language based on many other sources and the spellings became established over time.   If Americans had changed spellings to simply be rational, I would have no problem with it... but they have changed it to dumb the language down.  "Color"  "diarrhea"  spring to mind.  I don't like my language being butchered, especially not to make it look like a 5 year old has been playing with crayons.

The other point I made was that although Americans use the technically more correct -ize (which I have no problem with!), they do not do it to all words... meaning some keep as ise.  Which is stupid.  When all is said and done, I despise American English. 

edit

Quote
- All right versus alright. This one has a complicated history. Authors would typically insist that you use all right,

I have looked into these things a lot... and "All right" (in this example) has been used in all cases for this project.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: gramtastic on 2012-06-04 01:56:26
If by dumbed down you mean simplified, then yes. That was part of the intention. English gets a bad rap from non-native speakers due to our non-phonemic orthography. Most every other language on the planet is based on a phonemic orthography. Instead of correcting the issue, we keep celebrating it as if it's some kind of wonderful form of diversity. It's really not; it just makes language acquisition harder than it needs to be.

Speaking of which, this is what Noah Webster had in mind when he drafted several proposals for U.S. English reformation. Our government only adopted a few, and a few others were just mimetic. Had Webster been more successful, U.S. English would have been closer to something like this (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Soundspel#Examples). Understand that the differences in U.S. English are the result of intentional efforts at reformation, and not misspellings or quirks that simply caught on. We purposefully diverged with the intentions of accuracy and simplification, yet you guys keep accusing us of having some gross misunderstanding of the English language. That, in itself, is the result of an ignorance of U.S. history.

I guess this is all a bit off-topic...

The dialectal differences aside, I just want to emphasize again how difficult it is to wield English. English is a language of many, many exceptions. It's a lot to commit to memory, and people tend to nitpick over a stranded preposition here or there, a split infinitive (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Split_infinitive), confusing comparatives and prepositions (http://alt-usage-english.org/excerpts/fxdiffer.html)... Most, if not all, translation efforts I've seen just have too many of these problems.

If you want your script to be polished, I submit myself as an expert on the subject of English grammar; but I have to insist that anyone who requests my service places total trust in my judgment calls. I've worked on projects in the past, only to have people looking over my shoulder and insinuating that something I've changed is wrong simply because it doesn't look right to them. I would be glad to explain any changes I propose and even hear debate on the subject, but I'm quick to drop out of projects that are based on the consensus of arbitrary standards and personal feelings.

It should be noted, by the way, that I can work with U.K. orthography just as well. I've studied it extensively, and am even familiar with Canadian and Australian rules.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 02:04:46
Your advice is very welcome.  At the end I will supply the entire text dump to you, to look over and make notes on.  You may make any notes you wish and bring to my attention anything which you do not like.  We are 56% way through so a while to go before that day arrives.  Keep an eye on this project :)



As for Australian... I have a job for you already.  If you can localise Australian dialect?  We need someone to do a particular map.  Up for it?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: gramtastic on 2012-06-04 02:13:05
Are you asking me to write something with an Australian dialect? There wouldn't be many written differences, as it's mostly just the accent. I can transcribe some kind of accentual caricature though, if that's what you want.

You may make any notes you wish and bring to my attention anything which you do not like.

Funny. This is an example of restrictive versus non-restrictive clauses, and relative pronouns. I'd just hate for something like this to make its way into a translation, because it's really corny outside of the U.K. (even there, it's not technically grammatical) The historic usage rule is that it would be, "anything that you do not like."
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 02:15:03
See how you do with this.  The idea is they are from a faraway place visiting the Honeybee Manor..  Now any weird faraway dialect will do here.  But maybe Australian will work best?  It is up to you.

Note this dialogue is getting a good once over soon to make it sound natural.  At the moment it doesnt because this part of the game is horrible to translate and localise properly.  I have no idea what the fern is goin on with the grandad/grandma thing.

Code: [Select]
------------------------------
“Heeh…”
------------------------------
“Haaa…”
------------------------------
“What's wrong,Grandad?
You keep sighing…”
------------------------------
“Heeh…
You know,Grandma…”
------------------------------
“Is this about the room again?”
------------------------------
“Heeh…
I know our son must have spent a lot
renting this for us and all,but…”{NEW}
“A classy place like this for the likes of us…?
Big round bed and a gorgeous tub,
I'm just not used to it.”
------------------------------
“Quit complaining.
This is one of the ritziest
neighbourhoods below the city.
A place like this is to die for.”
------------------------------
“Hey,Grandma.
What's the name of the
company our son works for?”
------------------------------
“Oh,Grandad…
You forgot again?”
------------------------------
“Heeh…
Recently I forget all sorts of things…”
------------------------------
“It's the Shin-Ra Company… Shin-Ra!
It's the biggest company in Midgar.”
------------------------------
“If it's the biggest company,
it really must be somethin'.”
------------------------------
“Of course!
It IS something.”{NEW}
“He's doing well,told me he'd been
made the head of a whole department.”
------------------------------
“….
The reason we can stay in a
room like this is thanks to him.”{NEW}
“We should be grateful.”
------------------------------
“Yeah,you're right.”
------------------------------
“You wanna go bed?”
------------------------------
“Shall we?”
------------------------------
“Good night.”
------------------------------
“Aye,good night.”
------------------------------
“…Zzzz…Ghh…ZzZzz”
------------------------------
“…Heebeeheebee…ZzZz…”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: gramtastic on 2012-06-04 02:25:36
Before I go anywhere with it, two important questions: 1.) Is this excerpt more or less just a literal translation throw together for editing? 2.) What sort of tone or dialect was reflected in the original Japanese?

Keeping literal to that isn't necessarily important to me, but some people would throw a fit.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 02:40:15
No this was a first draft of that scene.  The original game is far worse...

There is nothing to go on.  It is just 2 people in a room talking to one another about their son.  I am not sure why they refer to themselves as grandma and grandad.  That's one for Luksy. Stand by.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: gramtastic on 2012-06-04 02:51:20
From what I gather of the context, it sounds like a couple of country bumpkins were given a romantic get-away by their rich son. Maybe the joke is that they're in a kinky love hotel surrounded by debauchery, but their sex life is long over. (hence going straight to bed) I need more information about the original Japanese, but I guess I could slang it up a bit more in the meantime. As I recall, FFVII had some pretty questionable punctuation, so maybe I can address that too. Given there was so much slang in the first place, it's good to use em-dashes a bit creatively, to show where colloquial speech levels abnormally break or abruptly end clauses.

Code: [Select]
... hum, ho...

Whaddya bellowin' about, Grandpa?

Well, Grandma...

Is this about the room again?

Our son must've spent a fortune rentin' this fancy room and all, but a classy place like this for simple ol' folk like us? — big, round bed, gorgeous tub — I'm just not used to it!

Stop yer complainin'! This is one of the nicest neighborhoods below the city. A place like this is to die for!

Say, Grandma — what's the name of the company our son works fer?

You forgot again?

I'm forgettin' all sorts of things lately...

It's the Shin-Ra company! SHIN-RA! It's the biggest company in Midgar!

Ain't that so? It must really be somethin'!

It IS somethin'!

He's doin' well. Told me he'd been made the head of a whole department!

He's the only reason we can stay in a room like this. Try an' be more grateful!

Yeah. You're right...

You wanna get to bed?

Shall we, then?

Good-night.

Aye. Good-night.

Zzz... grumble, grumble...

"Ritziest" was a funny touch. You should probably keep that one instead of my edit.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 03:07:13
These 2 people are old...  they won't use that kind of slangy speech (unless aussie old folk do? But I think this is meant to be a stereotypical couple).  Luksy tells me the silly Grandma granddad thing is there for Japanese to make sure that the audience know they are old... and it doesn't sound odd to a japanese audience.  I have arranged this for you as follows:

Code: [Select]
------------------------------
Grandad
“Heeh…”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Heeeeh…”
------------------------------
Grandma
“What's wrong?
You keep sighing…”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Heeh…
It's just…”
------------------------------
Grandma
“It's not about the room again, is it?”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Heeh…
I know our son must have spent a bomb
renting all this for us,but…”{NEW}
“A Big round bed… gorgeous tub.
I'm not used to this kind of class…”
------------------------------
Grandma
“Oh, stop it will you?
It doesn't get much better than
this below city.
People would bite your hand off
to come here.”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Oh yeah…
What's the name of the
company our son works for again?”
------------------------------
Grandma
“How can you forget THAT?”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Heeh…
I'm forgettin' all sorts these days…”
------------------------------
Grandma
“It's the Shin-Ra Company… Shin-Ra!
It's the biggest company in Midgar!”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Then… it must really be something?”
------------------------------
Grandma
“Of course it is!”{NEW}
“He's doing really well. Told me he'd been
made head of a whole department.”
------------------------------
Grandma
“…
It's thanks to him that
we're here.”{NEW}
“You should be grateful.”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Aye,you're right.”
------------------------------
Grandma
“Wanna go bed?”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Yeah, I guess we need some sleep.”
------------------------------
Grandma
“Good night.”
------------------------------
Grandad
“Good night.”
------------------------------
“…Zzzz…Ghh…ZzZzz”
------------------------------
“…Heebeeheebee…ZzZz…”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: gramtastic on 2012-06-04 04:25:39
I'm not sure I understand. Does the original Japanese have some sort of accentual subtext? If so, is it an accent that an English translation would logically approximate with Australian? It looks like we're taking too much of an artistic license.

The first excerpt you showed me was actually pretty good. I wouldn't change anything in it, unless it's too radically different from what the couple said in Japanese.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 04:31:23
And now the full list of changes for R04:
Code: [Select]
CHARACTERS:

Pilot Apprentice > Trainee Pilot
Tifa's Dad > Tifa's Father

LOCATIONS

Rocket Port Area > Launch Pad Area
Bugen's Research Centre > Bugen Research Centre [incorrect but "Bugen's" can't work can it?]
Chocobo Hut > Chocobo Stable
Church in the Slums > Slum Church
Costa del Sol Harbour > Costa del Sol, Harbour
Costa del Sol Inn > Costa del Sol, Inn
Darkness District, Block 4 > Dark District, Block 4
Dio's Museum/Showroom > Dio's Exhibition
Inside Submarine > Submarine
Junon Airport Passage > Junon Airport, Passage
Last Train from Midgar > Last Train
Shop > Store [generally but not always]
Passage 2 > 2nd Passage
Rocket Launching Pad > Launch Pad

WEAPONS

Assault Trumpet > Battle Trumpet
Ogrenix > Ogrenyx
Super Ball > Superball
Double Machinegun > Machinegun

ARMOURS

Chocobo Bracelet > Chocobracelet
Protection > Armour
Revised Protection > Revised Armour
Cheap Protection > Cheap Armour
Flame Ring > Fire Ring
Cold Ring > Ice Ring
Toughness Ring > Tough Ring


ITEMS

Polar Wind > Antarctic Wind
Bird Feather > Feather
Toxic Substance > Toxic Waste
Sea-Dragon Scales > Dragon Scales
Echo Smokescreen > Echo Screen
Fire-Dragon Fang > Red Dragon Fang
Gravity Ball > Graviball
<Stat> Up > <Stat> Source
Cold Crystal > Ice Crystal
Fire c*cktail > Firebomb
Miniaturise > Miniaturiser
Spider Thread > Spider Web
Space-Time Bomb > Spacetime Bomb
S-Mine > S-mine
A Coupon, B Coupon, C Coupon > Coupon A, Coupon B, Coupon C
Latest Shin-Ra Submarine > State-of-the-Art Shin-Ra Submarine
Palmstrike Rush > Palm Rush
Heavy Shot > Big Shot
Joker Death > Death Joker
Protector of the Planet > Planet Protector
Satan Impact > Satan Slam
Combine > Merge

ENEMIES

Full Armoured Golem > Armoured Golem
Swell Float > Bloat Float
Bottoms Well > Bottom Swell
Flap Beat > Flapbeat
Goulash Trike > Goulashtrike
Gross Panzer - Body (for example) > Gross Panzer: Body
Guard Scorpion > Scorpion Guard
Heli Gunner > Heligunner
Jumping > Jump
Mono Drive > Monodrive
Quick Machinegun > Rapid Machinegun
Twin Head (Left Head) > Twin Head (Left)
Twin Head (Right Head) > Twin Head (Right)
Scissors (Lower Body) > Scissors (Lower)
Scissors (Upper Body) > Scissors (Upper)
Soldier: 1st > Soldier: 1st Class
Soldier: 2nd > Soldier: 2nd Class
Soldier: 3rd > Soldier: 3rd Class
Sonic Speed > Sonic
Double Brain > Brains

ENEMY ATTACKS

Hundred Needles > 100 Needles
Artillery AB > Artillery A/B
Insulter > Insult
Raid > Raider
Before Firing > Loading Cannon
Big Mouth Breath > Big Breath
Big Sound Wave > Supersound
Big Rotation > Big Turn
Teeth Snap > Bite
Whole Body Tail > Body Tail
Insect Needle > Bug Needle
Swoop Attack > Swoop
Fatal Carrot Sword > Lethal Carrot Sword
Freezing Finger > Finger Freeze
Continuous Claw > Crazy Claw
Cursing Words > Hex
Damage Attack > Damage
Dangerous Sting > Savage Sting
Defence End > Defence Down
Defence Start > Defence Up
Double Breath > Twin Breath
Double Attack > Dual Attack
Double Spike > Dual Spike
Dual Wing Shot > Dual Wing Fire
Electric Discharge > Arc
Diverting Magnetic Field > Diverting Field
Electric Rod - Mark 2 > Electric Rod: Mark 2
Energy Absorb > Absorb Energy
Big Eruption > Cataclysm
Finger Shot > Finger Fire
Fire Shot > Fire Blast
Flame Shot > Flame Gun
100 Violent Pecks > 100 Pecks
Flap Wings > Flap
Flying Upper > Flying Uppercut
Crush > Crusher
Free Left Character > Free Left
Free Right Character > Free Right
Freezing Beam > Freeze Beam
Gehena Ganar > Gehenna Ganar
Glass Smash > Smash Glass
Grand Attack > Grand Charge
Hammer Attack > Hammer Smash
Head Attack > Head Charge
Big Headhunting > Full Headhunting
Bubble Hell > Hell Bubbles
Musical High & Low> "High & Low" Suite
Great Tsunami > Mega-tsunami
Icicle Fall > Icicle Drop
Jumping Cartilage Sword > Jump Sword
Last Left Breath > Left's Last Breath
Light Shot > Light Shell
Lightning > Bolt
Crazy Attack > Psycho
Magic Draining Cartilage Sword > Drain Sword
Magic Extinguish > Extinguish
Neo Turk's Ray > Neo Turks' Ray
Paralysis Tail > Paratail
Paralysis Laser > Paralaser
Paralysis Needle > Paraneedle
Petrify Eye > Petrifeye
Frog Petrification > Petrifrog
Petrification Smog > Petrismog
Poisso Shower > Poisso-shower
Propeller Sword > Sword Propeller
Chaotic Strikes > 4x Cut
Chaotic Stabs > Mad Gouge
Revival Magic > Revival
Counterattack Stamp >  Revenge Stamp
Gun Down > Open Fire
Petrification Finger > Petrifinger
Sad Yin Attack > Sad Yin
Scissor Tornado > Tornado Scissors
Shooting Seed > Seed Bullet
Shell Defence > Shell
Shield Defence > Shielding
Shoulder Attack > Shoulder Barge
Solo Wing Shot > Solo Wing Fire
Slap > Face Slap
Harmful Smog > Toxic Smog
Ultra Harmful Smog > Deadly Smog
Sonic Attack > Sonic Raid
Spear Strike > Spear
Dash Punch > Speed Punch
Spider Attack > Spider Blow
Needle Hell > Hell Needles
Spinning Body Blow > Spinning Blow
Petrification Glare > Petriglare
Powerful Kick > Power Kick
Main Artillery > Reserve Artillery
Swing Attack > Swing
Sword Attack > Sword Slicer
Tail Attack > Tail Whip
Drain Tentacle > Tentacle Drain
Combine > Merge
Violent Earthquake > Megathrust
Triangular Attack > Triangular Offensive
Triple Attack > Triple Assault
Turk's Ray > Turks' Ray
Sword Upper > Sword Uppercut
Verbal Attack > Verbal Assault
Wheelie Attack > Wheelie Advance
Numbing Whip > Numb Whip
Double Shield Throw > Shield Throws
Physical Attack > Attack

MATERIA AND ABILITIES

Attribute > Force [The idea is that they are properties which grant abilities]
Enemy Avoid > Enemy Evade
Flame Emission > Flame Thrower
Araise > Arise
Lucky > Luck Plus
Magical Breath > Magic Breath
Magical > Magic Plus
Unknown??? > Enigma
Recovery > Restore
Cut All > Slash All
Speed Plus > Agility Plus
Regenerate > Regeneration

MENU TEXT

Added Ability > Added Effect
Attributes > Forces
Mind > Intelligence

BATTLE DIALOGUE

1/2 Speed > 1/2 Agility
All 7 Fever! > Seven Fever!
All Materia is broken! > Materia is broken!
Failed to combine > Failed to merge
Keep goin',yes? > Keep goin'?
Slot Start! > Start Reel!


In Dispute



We have 2 choices...  call the Great Cavity AND the Crater "Great Crater" or... use Great Chasm and Crater.  The latter would be more accurate.




Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 04:33:35
I'm not sure I understand. Does the original Japanese have some sort of accentual subtext? If so, is it an accent that an English translation would logically approximate with Australian? It looks like we're taking too much of an artistic license.

The first excerpt you showed me was actually pretty good. I wouldn't change anything in it, unless it's too radically different from what the couple said in Japanese.

No the second one is a mile better because it is more accurate to the scene and the tone.  People do not call each other grandma and grandad.  The japanese use a separate accent for that couple made to sound "out of the city", any accent which is different and "out of the way" like australian, is fine.  There is no accurate accent...

In this case there is.  It is fine.  Luksy has just spotted that the 2 people in question are REEVE'S PARENTS.  That is why they speak with kansai dialect... like Cait Sith.  So I will get lex on this.  He deals with the Scottish.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: obesebear on 2012-06-04 14:22:58
People do not call each other grandma and grandad. 
Actually they do.   Mama and Papa aren't all that uncommon either when it comes to parents.    Well... let me rephrase that.  It's not particularly common that couples refer to each other using such titles, but it's not unheard of (at least where I'm from).   However, it would be grandpa instead of grandad.


So to me keeping it like that wouldn't sound particularly out of place at all.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 19:11:47
"How is our son doing Grandma"

"He is fine, granddad"

No grandma and Grandad that I know would ever talk like that in private, but they aren't supposed to anyway.  It is just a Japanese thing which shouldn't be carried across :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-06-04 20:06:36
So could someone explain to me why Reeve is Scottish? Im confused because in AC and DoC cait sith has a Scottish accent while Reeve does not. In the original game he did not come off as Scottish to me either. In DoC it confused me why Reeve and cait sith sounded different, but i figured it must be because cait sith is a robot and not controlled (meaning instead on being controlled directly with a remote, cait sith would have artificial intelligence), which explains why everyone was so sad when the first one died. But then does that mean Reeve wasn't controlling cait sith to steal the keystone but was giving orders instead? So what does Reeve really sound like?

Sorry for the rambling i just have always been confused about that. And to make matters worse, the first Reeve you run into in DoC is a robot...   ???
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-04 20:16:02
Reeve's native dialect is Scottish (at least "out of town, like Japanese instructs) like his parents. When he controls Cait he uses that dialect.  All other times he uses a city accent like those in Midgar.  Later in the story he is controlling cait while also in the room with heidegger and scarlet.  Scarlet and heidegger have no idea what Reeve is on about, because he is talking in a scottish accent (kansai in Japan) to Cloud aboard the highwind. (He is therefore speaking in scottish in front of heidegger and scarlet in this scene)


Heidegger makes comment that Reeve is talking crap, and Scarlet makes comment that his accent sounds funny.  This whole scene was completely lost in translation in the original and makes absolutely no sense.

The doc and spin offs have retconned Cait and Reeve, and should just be ignored.

The only reason Scottish has been chosen is because it is different and because Cait Sith myth originated in Scotland. 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-06-04 20:33:11
Ah, that makes sense. One more thing though, what's up with cait sith at the temple of the ancients? Why is it so dramatic when he dies? Does cait sith have A.I. or is he always manually controlled?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-05 00:07:44
That again was badly translated...  the light hearted tone is more to do with the idea you are losing a party member which you then find out later you are not.  This was deliberate because it sets you up for a greater fall when Aerith dies for real.  Clever writing.

The temple scene is badly translated though and gives the impression that Cait is a person who will die...  in the actual translation he makes mention that he is just a mechanical toy who is expendable.  Cait is not alive... it is just a robot that Reeve uses to talk through and who is controlled by Reeve.  In my opinion the silliest character in FF universe... because as a main arc character you cannot suspend disbelief to him.  This is the whole reason that one of my mods aims to write him out of the story completely in favour of a human Shin-Ra Spy.

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-05 01:33:03
Okay people... need your help.  We are left with a tricky decision to make.

Do we stick to accuracy here.  The game calls the hole down into the planet a "Great Cavity".  The "North Crater" or sometimes just "Crater" is the opening to the hole, the part you see on the world map.

An accurate and none literal sounding way around this is to call the hole "Great Chasm" and also keep the crater.  The full title would then be "Great Chasm, Crater" as a field name.

"North Crater" and "Great Chasm" would be seen in dialogue.

The bad thing about this is the confusion it may create for people.  My option would be to call all references to that area "Great Crater"

What say you?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: obesebear on 2012-06-05 02:39:24
I like Great Cavity.  Gives the feeling there's a hole where there shouldn't be.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-05 08:52:48
Here (http://RocketRonnie.net/FINAL_FANTASY_VII_TEXT_DOCUMENTATION_BY_DLPB.htm)

This is the completed (or as near to it as it ever gets) documentation.  It would be good if a few people could go through this, point out anything they don't like, ask questions, or make any other comments.  I understand it may take ages, but I am the poor sod who had to make it and research it.

oh and Intelligence > Intellect.  Intellect is much better in game too.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-05 22:10:33
I am now running through entire game up to where we are at...  (Junon)...  I have made extensive changes to the earlier dialogue... which I made when I was naive.  Sounds better now and the beginner's hall is a vast improvement.  It is lookin' f*ckin' good.  8)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-06 01:59:37
I'm only going into this much detail because you asked for it very specifically. I super duper respect what you guys are doing, and I'm afraid I'm sounding a bit like a squeaky wheel cause 90% of what I say are potential corrections and such. So uh, just thanking you again for doing this awesome thing before I go into this. XD

Meena Wallace - Unless there's a specific reason for romanizing her name as Meena, I'd go with Mina. That spelling looks more natural and maintains the pronunciation. I recognize you might have gone with Meena to maintain a more "exotic" feel though, as much of the names in Squaresoft/Enix games attempt to carry.

Tifa's Father - I recommend changing this to Tifa's Dad. Papa is rather informal - not keeping it exact makes sense because of how childish "papa" is in English, but Father carries a more formal feeling. I'd only have used it if the Japanese said "otosama" rather than "papa" - or even "otosan", but not "papa".

Pagoda of the 5 Masters - I'd go with Sages or Wise Men - I agree that Mighty can be dropped, but looking at other translations of this sort of thing, Sages or Wise Men feels more accurate.

All W/Double with the "Double" Lost - Did you remove the "Double" due to space constraints? I feel like too much is being lost if you lose the double. W is used to mean double in Japanese slang, which I suspect you know. If you can put it back in, I think it would be better. But I may be arguing too strong for literal over context with this.

Wheelie Advance - I think Attack should be kept instead of a change, but that's total opinion. XD

As for the Cavity, Crater, Chasm thing... I actually think you should keep Cavity. There's an implication with Cavity, an implication of not only a hole/chasm but of an infection. Given the game, it might do to keep that implicaton.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-06 02:30:42
Thanks for your input!

Quote
Meena Wallace - Unless there's a specific reason for romanizing her name as Meena, I'd go with Mina. That spelling looks more natural and maintains the pronunciation. I recognize you might have gone with Meena to maintain a more "exotic" feel though, as much of the names in Squaresoft/Enix games attempt to carry.

Yeah, Mina is probably right...  I changed to Meena to avoid the confusion with "Elmina"
Quote
Tifa's Father - I recommend changing this to Tifa's Dad. Papa is rather informal - not keeping it exact makes sense because of how childish "papa" is in English, but Father carries a more formal feeling. I'd only have used it if the Japanese said "otosama" rather than "papa" - or even "otosan", but not "papa".

Luksy also flayed me for this one... but seeing "Dad" in a dialogue box telling you which character it is strikes me as odd.  Tifa does call her father dad, but these are the dialogue box headings.  It would be like seeing a dialogue box of "Granny" instead of "Grandma".

Quote
Pagoda of the 5 Masters - I'd go with Sages or Wise Men - I agree that Mighty can be dropped, but looking at other translations of this sort of thing, Sages or Wise Men feels more accurate.

Mighty was dropped only because of space limits.  There is a character limit.  Sages... not so sure. The people in the pagoda are masters of various techniques and Sage is usually changed in western games.  In FFX Sage was changed to Maester for example.

Quote
All W/Double with the "Double" Lost - Did you remove the "Double" due to space constraints? I feel like too much is being lost if you lose the double. W is used to mean double in Japanese slang, which I suspect you know. If you can put it back in, I think it would be better. But I may be arguing too strong for literal over context with this.

If you mean like "Double machinegun", yeah the weapon I removed to just machinegun.  In menu, Double Item etc are maintained.  I have not changed the materia names (although I did consider using "dual").   Which ones do you mean specifically?

Quote
Wheelie Advance - I think Attack should be kept instead of a change, but that's total opinion. XD

I will look at the move some day... when I get some time haha

Quote
As for the Cavity, Crater, Chasm thing... I actually think you should keep Cavity. There's an implication with Cavity, an implication of not only a hole/chasm but of an infection. Given the game, it might do to keep that implicaton.

Your vote is so counted.  Obesebear also agrees with that.  I and luksy... not so much :P  Although I do agree the choice of Cavity may very well be as intended as you say.  This is a tough one!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-06 03:14:28
On the Double thing, I actually totally just checked on the machinegun and then decided to cover any other omissions that apparently weren't there. Dual would be a good compromise, in my opinion! It feels wrong to lose it completely.

If you do end up changing it from Cavity, I'd go to Chasm so that it remains separate.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-06 04:58:25
Japanese apparently does not even need to be literally grandma grandad, it just means old.

Code: [Select]
Honeybee Manor
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heeh…”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heeeh…”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“What's wrong?
You keep sighing…”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heh…
It's just…”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“It's not about the
room again,is it?”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heh… well,
I know our son must have spent
a bomb renting all this for us,but…”{NEW}
“…A Big round bed… gorgeous tub.
I'm just not used to it,that's all…”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“Oh,stop it will you?
It doesn't get much
better than this below city.”{NEW}
“People would bite your
hand off to come here.”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Oh yeah…
What's the name of that
company our son works for?”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“You've not forgotten
again,have you?”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Heeh…
I'm surprising myself these days …”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“It's the Shin-Ra Company…
Shin-Ra!
The biggest company in Midgar!”
------------------------------
Old Man
“…It must really be something!?”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“Of course it is!”{NEW}
“He's doing really well.
Told me he'd been made
head of a whole department.”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“It's thanks to him
that we're here.”{NEW}
“You should be grateful.”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Aye,you're right.”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“Should we go bed?”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Yeah,we need the sleep.”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“Night,love.”
------------------------------
Old Man
“Good night.”
------------------------------
Old Man
“…Zzz…ghh…Zzzz”
------------------------------
Old Woman
“…Zzz…Zzz…”

This will be sent to Lex now.

Oh and for a laugh... the original:

Code: [Select]
Honey Bee Inn
------------------------------
“…wheez…”
------------------------------
“Phew…”
------------------------------
“What's wrong, Grandpa?
You keep sighing.”
------------------------------
“…wheez…puff…
You know, Grandma…”
------------------------------
“Is this the room?”
------------------------------
“…whew…
I know our son rented this
for us and all, but…”{NEW}
“It's too nice for us.
Big round bed, gorgeous tub,
I just can't get comfortable.”
------------------------------
“Don't worry about it.
It's a high class neighborhood,
in the Big City.”{NEW}
“You keep complainin' and
we'll get in trouble.”
------------------------------
“Hey Grandma.
What's the name of the company
our son works for?”
------------------------------
“Oh, Grandpa.
Did you forget again?”
------------------------------
“…heave…
It's getting worse…”
------------------------------
“It's Shinra, you know, Shinra, Inc.?
It's the biggest company in the city.”
------------------------------
“If it's the biggest company,
it must be something.”
------------------------------
“Yeah.
It IS really something.”{NEW}
“He's doing well, and he told me that
he's been promoted to department head.”
------------------------------
“Oh…thanks to him we're
able to stay in a room like this.”
------------------------------
“Yeah, I'm really grateful.”
------------------------------
“Well, you wanna go to sleep?”
------------------------------
“All right…”
------------------------------
“Good night.”
------------------------------
“Yeah, good night.”

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-06 17:17:53
I always make it a point to read the originals before I read your re-translation, every time I do this I catch a glimpse of how hard this project must be, Its like cracking the damn Da Vinci code, anyway brilliant work so far, looking forward to playing the game and understanding what the hell half the people are talking about.

Just out of curiosity can you explain to me how the hell the translation for the guard scorpion got so messed up? Attack when the tails up? ummm... OK *BOOM* -.- my first Final Fantasy 7 experience.

Also to join in on the vote I also agree with Cavity. As mentioned before this implies that it is not supposed to be hear and actually sounds like damage has been dealt.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-06 17:34:23
I have no idea how they got the "attack while the tails up" , more than likely they were rushed.  The Honeybee Manor quite clearly is rushed and the translator had no context to go on.  Most of the game was rushed it seems, and not read through or amended.

As for Cavity... I agree it is a much more faithful description, but seeing "Great Cavity" all the time in dialogue may end up sounding very unnatural.

"Everyone, let's head for the Great Cavity"

"Everyone, let's head for the Great Crater"

If I were a person referring to the north crater (the entrance is called crater) I would be inclined to say crater and not refer to the actual hole that exists within the crater.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Covarr on 2012-06-06 18:09:48
I assume it was a typo. If you replace that exclamation point with a comma, it makes far more sense: "Attack while its tail is up, it's gonna counter attack with its laser!"

Although given the one-line-at-a-time limitation they have in battles, they really should've sacrificed the character and personality of the original dialogue for the sake of clarity: "If you attack while its tail is up, it's gonna counter attack with its laser!" Not quite as fluid, but far better for the player.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-06 18:32:15
The Japanese isn't ambiguous either.  I used something like

"Watch out! If you attack when the tails up, it'll counterattack with a laser"

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-06 19:54:46
Well I suppose Great Cavity does sound a little off if you use it in a conversation, could you not change the name of the entrance to Great Cavity Entrance? I mean sure it may not be as accurate but I think it has a nicer ring to it.

Also they could have said "Don't attack while its tails up, it will counter attack with it's laser".
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-06 19:58:48
No because then you have a massive contradiction.  What is used must be for the whole game.

Quote
Also they could have said "Don't attack while its tails up, it will counter attack with it's laser".

That would still be bad English because that would be:

Don't attack while its tails up. If you do, it will counterattack with a laser"
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-06 20:01:42
Doi, I can be an idiot at times =P

In that case I'll change my vote to Great Crater. Simply because Great Cavity does sound strange in conversations.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: StickySock on 2012-06-06 21:28:29
Edit: I'm glad you changed it from grandma and grandpa to old, for if they are indeed Reeve's parents it would imply Reeve has kids, or siblings that do.

I vote for Great Crater, it sounds better.

In my opinion the silliest character in FF universe... because as a main arc character you cannot suspend disbelief to him.  This is the whole reason that one of my mods aims to write him out of the story completely in favour of a human Shin-Ra Spy.

Awesome. Have you gotten very far on it?

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-06 21:54:20
I haven't got anywhere with it :P  Simply because I have to finish translation first...  I have removed cait from the FMV and placed new character in (last FMV has new dialogue, other ones simply cut character out).  I had a new model made also... but no one has helped so far to place it into game for me.  That can come later anyway.


This part was one of the hardest...  Cloud is about to ask if Big Bro is a man (he is dressed as a woman, and Cloud realises).  Aerith covers for him.  In the Japanese game she calls him "beautiful bro" but the only way I could make the scene work and let the audience know that cloud is being covered for is this... and I think it has worked out OK.

Quote
{CLOUD}
“Hang on,are you a ma…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“…MAGNIFICENT Bro…”
------------------------------
“Well… they call me Big Bro…
   that's about it… Anyway,
   names aren't important.”

The literal Japanese didn't help...

Quote
Are you maybe

Beautiful Bro?

What are you talking about at a time like this?

Older Bro...  Older bro
That's...
You, never mind that

And original English:

Quote
{CLOUD}
“Are you…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“THE beautiful Bro?”
------------------------------
“What? You didn't know?
   Always running around here
   sayin' Big Bro' this,
   Big Bro' that…”


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-06 22:25:21
It still amazes me just how much context I missed on my multiple plays through this game. Nice work on the cover up, I'm a fan of it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-06 22:36:02
Same here.... I think the human brain is good at ignoring mistakes if the dialogue makes a rough sense...  Sometimes though I realised big mistakes were being made.  Above... is one of them.  I always thought it sounded wrong.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: spy__dragon on 2012-06-06 23:30:43
Hello, I have a question. Could I use your translation as support for our translation? Of course, everybody enter in the credits. But I want to be sure before screw it or something.

Thanks ;)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-07 00:20:32
Of course, but Make sure you credit us properly.  DLPB and Luksy and link to this thread.   If you plan on using large chunks of our work, then make that obvious in your credits.

What are you planning to do?

In other news, I had a lot of fun with this.  Yes, I have taken a liberty...  Don simply says "Girl" in japanese, but this gives him some character and the scene some humour

------------------------------
Corneo
“Woo hoo!!
   I've made up my mind!!”{NEW}
“My partner for tonight is…”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This spirited filly!”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This slender sex-bomb!”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This burly beaut!”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-07 04:29:58
I have overhauled the localisation from top to bottom.  Should have a release soon.  New release will also include fixes and the non literal menu names and so forth.  A major update.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: spy__dragon on 2012-06-07 06:09:29
I am planning translation into Spanish, now I am trying to find out how change graphics, in PC and PSX.
I am seeing many posts and many tools for both.

That scene... is when Don Corneo kidnapped  Elena and Yuffie?
Mm... I still don't understand why the translators put "hobby",
that scene I saw in Japanese text, I know Japanase.

Personally, I would translate as "the hotter (girl)", but I don't know if English speakers could
consider as insult because I am Spanish, the culture is different.

Many thanks for your job ;)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-07 06:31:44
I have mentioned it to Luksy but you will have to wait for other things until we have done it ourselves :)  Too busy.

From what we can see the word hobby is OK there. He is prob referring to the fact that he chooses women now based on tying them up to statues etc.  It is just a joke.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-07 22:57:30
I'm sorry I keep adding things here but...  I get a little proud of the improvements.  :evil:

Old
Code: [Select]
Reeve
“Sir. If you raise the rates,
the people will lose confidence…”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“It'll be all right.”{NEW}
“The ignorant citizens won't lose confidence,
they'll trust Shinra, Inc. even more.”

New
 
Code: [Select]
Reeve
“Mr. President.
Raising the rates further can only add
to the discontent felt among our citizens.”
------------------------------
President Shinra
“Don't worry.”{NEW}
“The ignorant fools won't lose
confidence. Far from it,in fact.
They'll trust the company even more

old
Code: [Select]
------------------------------
President Shinra
“What about the Promised Land?
Won't it hinder our plans?”
------------------------------
Hojo
“That's what I need to plan.
The mother is strong…
and yet has her weaknesses.”
------------------------------

new
Code: [Select]
------------------------------
President Shinra
“What about the Promised Land?
Won't this delay hinder our plans?”
------------------------------
Hojo
“…That is my conviction.
Anyway,the girl will be a strong mother…
Though… she does have a few frailties…”
------------------------------
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-09 05:09:13
Oh man, don't apologize. I flipping LOVE seeing new posts from you, even if its just grammatical adjustments and stuff. Checking this topic is totally part of my daily routine now. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-09 06:26:55
It's nice to see some people appreciate improvements.  I've been looking around and find some are more concerned that I have made Zack Zax...  Even though the installer actually allows either.  HEH.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: spy__dragon on 2012-06-09 09:16:36
OK, I'll wait it. I only want to communicate to use as support to authors.
Anyway, personally, I don't mind changes of the names, some changes
sound good according Japanese phonetic, and the grammatical changes
have big difference to the original translation.


Greetings and good luck ;)
P.D: If you need a helpful, I don't mind to help.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-09 15:53:16
Scfrew what other people think of the name changes man, personally I don't like Aerith but I have grown to accept it as truth ( Mind you I never likes Aeris either I was glad when she died)

Anyway back on topic if people didn't play this because this or that wasn't changed that's their loss, you're doing an amazing job on this re-translation and people should stop bitching.

Personally I wouldn't have included original incorrect names as an option just out of principle =P
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: spy__dragon on 2012-06-09 17:59:50
I think people will play the re translation or Translation, why translation? They are translating from Japanese , there are many details that the original translation didn't translate or skipped, for example, Don Corneo when Cloud and the other arrived, they threatened with to cut his "little thing". And other reasons, the people is used to the official terms of magic or Limits, attacks or arms.

Greetings ;)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-09 18:47:33
I wouldn't have ncluded original incorrect names as an option just out of principle =P

Believe me, that was tempting.  I did it because it is better to have the intolerant gits on board as well.  However, I will be changing the installer to reflect the fact that the choice they use is wrong.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-09 19:10:41
Great, Now I'm even excited to see the installer  :-D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2012-06-09 19:55:51
http://clerith.heliohost.org/Ultimania.htm

@DLPB - I thought maybe these would be a good read for you. They are articles on various scenes/scripts. Japanese quotes and explanations are included.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-09 21:00:11
Thanks. Luksy has a copy of the Japanese Ultimania and Omega.  Most of that seems to be overly interested in silly fanboy ideas about "canon" but I will bookmark it anyway.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-11 07:45:34
This is the final resting place of the documentation, which I have now pretty much completed along with notes.

Documentation found Here (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlJH_wU1qqN4dHBMSk9PUDZWVWdVaENobzBkSXlhVFE)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: obesebear on 2012-06-11 14:56:00
[criticism] Things like renaming Heaven's Cloud to Ama No Kurakamo, Flayer to Fangtian Hua Ji and Amulet to Omamori, stand out like sore thumbs.   I think having one, and even two words that aren't English sounding is acceptable (like the Mutsunokami Yoshiyuki) but when it gets to 3, it begins sounding like it wasn't even translated from Japanese.   As for amulet, I guess I just don't see where the need was to change it since they're the same thing? [/criticism]


It's very impressive that you've gotten this far, and I'm glad you switched from the extremely literal translation of the beginning.   I've also found I'm more ok with a lot of the name changes like Gast to Gusto, Zack to Zax, etc.  I figure the majority of people don't have regular names in the FF7 universe, so any changes are probably getting it closer to what was originally intended.


Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-06-11 16:17:16
There are only a handful of words left over from Japanese, they stuck because they're either proper names, or concepts whose English equivalent is not quite the same thing (or in some cases with the original translation just plain wrong).

For Ama no Murakamo: Changing it would be like calling Excalibur "Battlebreach" or something similar. Heaven's Cloud is a very rough translation but is equally meaningless to a person unfamiliar with the actual sword, so what's there to lose?

Fangtian Hua Ji is a legendary class of polearm that appears in the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Flayer conveys nothing of the meaning (which is something like "Heaven Pointing Spear"), so again, I'm not sure anything of value is lost.

An omamori is an amulet, but an amulet isn't necessarily an omamori, much like ninja <-> spy. There are plenty of other choices for amulets the designers could have made, but seeing as they chose an omamori I think it's right to honor that choice.

Quote
I figure the majority of people don't have regular names in the FF7 universe, so any changes are probably getting it closer to what was originally intended.

Yeah Zack was always an odd one, I mean we have Cloud, Tifa, Aerith/s and...Zack? Really?
(http://i.imgur.com/taL0f.jpg)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-11 16:33:53
I would also note that Ama No Murakumo is used in other games. Inc other FF games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kusanagi

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Heaven%27s_Cloud


 They are pure concepts and swords.  Changing it would be as silly as changing Murasame to Village Rain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K.O.3an_Guo

The other weapons are properly named.  They are chinese and must remain chinese. 

The reason I left http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Dragon_Crescent_Blade  as Dragon Guan Dao is because that was as close as I could get given the space and the rather awkward use of Chinese. Qing Long Yan Yue Dao would not look good in any game....  However I managed to keep some of the Chinese... the meaning Dragon and the fact it is called a Guan Dao.

I take the point with Omamori and Signed Shikishi that these things are not western, and I would have no objections to them being changed to fit in with a western audience... but I still err on the side of protecting the original choices made by the design team.  Others may not :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Gemini on 2012-06-11 19:01:10
I would only agree with the criticism on omamori. Leaving it as omamori just looks plain stupid as they clearly aren't japanese items but rather simple amulets you'd see any day.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-11 21:01:14
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omamori

Says here they are specifically a certain culture/religion.  They are certainly not regular western items. Using "Amulet" or something else completely destroys the connection to Buddhism and Shinto. Edit.  I understand the Japanese translates as "Amulet"  but Ultimania makes it clear that Omamori is intended. 

On similar  note:

In the Japanese version of FF7 there are plenty of references to western mythologies and ideas, including Knights of the Round, Longinus and even Saint Clip.  If we follow the logic that all non western names and mythologies should be converted into something western, we also have to concede that the Japanese "should have" converted all the western references to something they are familiar with.  Clearly, FF7 is intended to have a nice healthy mix of culture, and messing about with that, imho, takes away from the game.  At the same time it takes a massive liberty and overrules the design team.  When it comes to attacks, monster names, materia names and so forth... yeah I can see a need to dispense with 100% fact some times.  But when we are talking about specific items and specific weapons, there is nowhere to go on it.  A japanese gamer did not look at "Longinus" and think "Gee, why didn't they use Tanto."  He accepts that the game has mixtures of many different cultures.

Diversity like this can only add to the game.  Changing Odin to "God"  or Niblheim to "Mist Village"  would be every bit as stupid as altering clear and intended Japanese/Chinese culture to fit a western audience.

edit.  To further my point consider this

Pole Axe
Master Fist
Maximum Ray
Metal Knuckle
Microlaser
Missing Score
Mop
Motor Drive

All of these are named IN ENGLISH in the Japanese game.  They accept our culture.  We should accept there's.  I have made my mind up on that I am afraid.   ;D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: arciks11 on 2012-06-11 21:22:07

In other news, I had a lot of fun with this.  Yes, I have taken a liberty...  Don simply says "Girl" in japanese, but this gives him some character and the scene some humour

------------------------------
Corneo
“Woo hoo!!
   I've made up my mind!!”{NEW}
“My partner for tonight is…”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This spirited filly!”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This slender sex-bomb!”
------------------------------
Corneo
“This burly beaut!”

If I may make a suggestion.

I would use something like "This spunky beauty.", since I don't think words like sex-bomb and burly are apropriate when reffering to Yuffie
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-11 21:22:46
No one is referring to Yuffie.  He is referring to Tifa, Cloud and Aerith.   The localisation fits the intended targets and translation quite faithfully.  ALthough I am not sure if Corneo is referring to Cloud as fat or as muscular.  I assume muscular.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-06-11 22:47:15
I would only agree with the criticism on omamori. Leaving it as omamori just looks plain stupid as they clearly aren't japanese items but rather simple amulets you'd see any day.

The image used in the International bonus disk is quite clearly an omamori, the Ultimania description reads "A Japanese style omamori that brings luck to its owner. Although it reminds one of Wutai it's actually sold in Midhir."
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-12 01:40:41
Luksy completed the translation for mtcrl_9 (bridge scene corel) and I have tried to make it sound as intended.  We are not sure how Yuffie's line is intended.  We assume Cloud means "You are thinking of throwing us off"

Code: [Select]
Mt. Corel,West
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Hm…?
I've a good idea what
you're thinking of doing…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Weirdo!!
Don't tempt me,
I might just do it!”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“I'm back…”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Woah,that's some view…
Almost becomes part of you.”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“Scared?”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Yeah,just a little.”
------------------------------
#o 1 2
{CLOUD}
{CHOICE}Don't worry,I'd catch you.
{CHOICE}You wouldn't die
{CHOICE} even if you did fall off.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Oh,you'd say
that to anyone!”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“Oh,you're awful!
Is that what you're thinking!?”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“{CLOUD}…”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“…Yeah.”
------------------------------
#o 1 2
{CLOUD}
{CHOICE}Don't worry,I'd catch you.
{CHOICE}Worry about being with me,
{CHOICE} that's more dangerous.”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Oh,{CLOUD}!
You're so reliable!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“Hmm…
You might be right…”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“Humans are
strange animals…”
------------------------------
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: obesebear on 2012-06-12 01:41:52
On similar  note:

In the Japanese version of FF7 there are plenty of references to western mythologies and ideas, including Knights of the Round, Longinus and even Saint Clip.  If we follow the logic that all non western names and mythologies should be converted into something western, we also have to concede that the Japanese "should have" converted all the western references to something they are familiar with.  Clearly, FF7 is intended to have a nice healthy mix of culture, and messing about with that, imho, takes away from the game.  At the same time it takes a massive liberty and overrules the design team.  When it comes to attacks, monster names, materia names and so forth... yeah I can see a need to dispense with 100% fact some times.  But when we are talking about specific items and specific weapons, there is nowhere to go on it.  A japanese gamer did not look at "Longinus" and think "Gee, why didn't they use Tanto."  He accepts that the game has mixtures of many different cultures.

Diversity like this can only add to the game.  Changing Odin to "God"  or Niblheim to "Mist Village"  would be every bit as stupid as altering clear and intended Japanese/Chinese culture to fit a western audience.

edit.  To further my point consider this

Pole Axe
Master Fist
Maximum Ray
Metal Knuckle
Microlaser
Missing Score
Mop
Motor Drive

All of these are named IN ENGLISH in the Japanese game.  They accept our culture.  We should accept there's.  I have made my mind up on that I am afraid.   :-D
Did not know this.  Carry on then.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: arciks11 on 2012-06-12 10:40:34
No one is referring to Yuffie.  He is referring to Tifa, Cloud and Aerith.   The localisation fits the intended targets and translation quite faithfully.  ALthough I am not sure if Corneo is referring to Cloud as fat or as muscular.  I assume muscular.

Oh... it's from THAT scene. Then disregard what I said before.  :(
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: cbudd on 2012-06-13 04:02:19
So, I am playing through the game again using the new translation.  I'm enjoying it, thanks DLPB for all the hard work...

Is this the correct place to post errors?  If so I will post any that I catch, however small I guess :)

In the second reactor, Cloud stops to talk with Jessie.  She explains why they had a problem on the security checkpoint on the train.

Her words are... 

"It was Cloud's ID Card, I think overdid it...... that's what caused it."

I think it should be "I think I overdid it"

Again, thanks for all the hard work!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-13 04:18:11
No that is the old localisation.  Wait for R04.  See first post. :)  There have been hundreds of improvements since then across the board.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-13 19:42:43
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Glenn_%28singer%29

I wonder if Glen Glenn was intended for グリングリン  .  This singer does also appear to be a Hillbilly singer (the guys at farm were gonna be hillbilly once).  The japanese seems more Green/Glynn though... but I have seen グリン = Glenn.  There are other Glen Glenn names too inc 1 large company.

I find it more far fetched than just a pun on green but....

edit.  All right, it was more than far fetched... it is almost impossible.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-14 03:45:33
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36889302/FF7/colour.PNG)


Nice use of colour for the Expert's Hall.  I am very pleased with how the Expert's hall went.  We are definitely getting better at this.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-14 16:45:59
I have to say, high quality text really looks odd with low res backgrounds. TA's graphical overhall is going to be amazing.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Gemini on 2012-06-14 17:28:29
Says here they are specifically a certain culture/religion.  They are certainly not regular western items. Using "Amulet" or something else completely destroys the connection to Buddhism and Shinto. Edit.  I understand the Japanese translates as "Amulet"  but Ultimania makes it clear that Omamori is intended.
The ones in FFVII aren't Shintoist or Buddhist amulets, considering they aren't based on either religion (neither exists in the FFVII world, after all). Not to mention using "omamori" is totally clueless to the player; there isn't a thing lost when you translate it to amulet, as there aren't real pictures in game other than an extra disk nobody ever bothered to check (and even in that case people would still understand it's a japanese amulet, it's not rocket science). Leaving omamori is just like leaving Barret's "Cloud-san!", no more no less. Plus, they're usually called amulets anyways and the reference would still make sense with a non japophile term.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2012-06-14 20:43:17
Looks pretty good!
I have to say, high quality text really looks odd with low res backgrounds. TA's graphical overhall is going to be amazing.
[offtopic] have you checked out Facepalmer field backgrounds? [/offtopic]
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-14 20:49:51
Looks pretty good![offtopic] have you checked out Facepalmer field backgrounds? [/offtopic]

I have though they completely slipped my mind when I posted that.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-15 01:43:49
Using "omamori" is totally clueless to the player; there isn't a thing lost when you translate it to amulet,

There is. What is lost is the intended reference to an Omamori.

Quote
as there aren't real pictures in game other than an extra disk nobody ever bothered to check

I bothered to check it.   :-P  The same as "Glass hairpin" is made clear in Ultimania.  These things are intended by the designers.  A way around this is for me to do both.  I can call it Omamori and in description "An amulet"  but this may just be silly.  Either way I am keeping Omamori because Ultimania and the bonus disk make it clear that is what it is.  An Omamori is an amulet, but an amulet is not always an Omamori.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omamori
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amulet

It gets its own page in Wiki to differentiate


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-15 05:51:05
Time for another comparison:


Old:
Code: [Select]
Junon Airport Path
------------------------------
“Eh!
Ho!”
------------------------------
“Hurry!
Hurry!!”
------------------------------
“The new President!!
He's here, he's here!!”
------------------------------
“Hey!
You still dressed like that!?
Come 'ere!”
------------------------------
“Hey! Rookie!!
Can't you hear me!!
Come over here!”
------------------------------
“Here!!
Get in the room!”
------------------------------
[Save Point]
Access the menu and select
{PURPLE}[SAVE]{WHITE} to save your game.
------------------------------
“All I wanted was to become a pilot!
I used to be speechless watching the
Highwind in the sunset!”
------------------------------
“Finished loading the Huge Materia!”{NEW}
“All we have to do now is to ready
the cargo ship,
'Gelnika', for departure and we're done!”
------------------------------
“It's kinda lonely at the airport
without the Highwind, isn't it?”{NEW}
“I miss that bikini girl
on the side of the plane.”
------------------------------
“Right now the Shinra's using it to gather the
Huge Materia from {CYAN}the Corel Reactor{WHITE}
and from {CYAN}the Fort Condor Reactor{WHITE}.”{NEW}
“The Gelnika's flying all over the place!
The only one that's not busy, is probably me!”
------------------------------
“The Shinra's collecting Huge Materia
at the {CYAN}Junon Underwater Reactor{WHITE}!”{NEW}
“When they're done,
they'll bring it to this airport.”{NEW}
“Get out of here before you get in the way!”{NEW}
“What…me?
I'm gonna be watching from here,
so that I don't get in their way either!”
------------------------------
“I'm glad we got Gelnika to
Rocket Town safely.”{NEW}
“But they sure think big.
Looks like they're going to use
the Huge Materia to break up Meteor…”
------------------------------
“The Shinra Army's gathered at Midgar.
Now it's just a matter of time
Sephiroth's dead.”{NEW}
“What…me? I don't mind.
I'll just wait here.
My life is important to me.”
------------------------------
“I finally got orders to join
the Great Sephiroth Plan.
I even get to go on the Gelnika too…”{NEW}
“But, I'm just gonna ignore them.
I wanna live to see
the end of the world.”{NEW}
“If I'm lucky…
There'll be a good place for me
in the New World.”
------------------------------
“Doesn't it bother you?
Flying around knowing that
you could die at any moment?”{NEW}
“If that's the case,
might as well live on the edge, I say.”{NEW}
“But before I can do that,
I gotta get a license first.”
------------------------------

New:
Code: [Select]
Junon Airport,Passage
------------------------------
“Eh!
Ho!”
------------------------------
“Hurry!
Hurry!!”
------------------------------
“The new President!!
The reception,the reception!!”
------------------------------
“Hey!
Still dressed like that!?
Come 'ere!”
------------------------------
“Hey! Rookie!!
You deaf or somethin'!?
I said come here!”
------------------------------
“Move it!!
Get in there!”
------------------------------
SAVE POINT
Access the menu
and select {PURPLE}Save{WHITE}
------------------------------
“I wanted to be a pilot once,you know!
…The Highwind floating in the twilight!
…It still takes my breath away!”
------------------------------
“We've finished loading
the Huge Materias!”{NEW}
“Now all that's left is to
see off the Guernica at
the airport.”
------------------------------
“It's kinda lonely at the
airport without the Highwind!”{NEW}
“I miss the girl on the fuselage…
The one in the bikini.”
------------------------------
“The Shin-Ra army is currently
away on a mission huntin' for
Huge Materia at the reactors
in {CYAN}Corel{WHITE} and {CYAN}Fort Condor{WHITE}.”{NEW}
“The Guernicas are out
in force,too! I'm the only
one not doin' anythin'!”
------------------------------
“The Shin-Ra army is currently on a
mission to recover the Huge Materia
from the {CYAN}Undersea Mako Reactor{WHITE},
right here in Junon!”{NEW}
If everything goes to plan,
it'll be loaded at the airport.”{NEW}
“You should leave
before you get in the way!”{NEW}
“What? Me?
I'm gonna be watchin' from here,
so that I don't get in their way either!”
------------------------------
“I'm glad the Guernica arrived at
Rocket Village safe and sound.”{NEW}
“…They sure think big though.
Looks like they're gonna
use the power of the Huge
Materias to destroy Meteor…”
------------------------------
“Shin-Ra's concentrated its military
might at Midgar. It's only a matter of
time now before Sephiroth meets
his maker.”{NEW}
“What? Me? I'm cool.
I'm staying in reserve,
'cause I value my life.”
------------------------------
“I finally got orders to
join Operation Sephiroth.
I'd even be able to go on
a Guernica…”{NEW}
“But why break the habit
of a lifetime? I'm just gonna
ignore 'em.
I wanna survive so I can
see the end of the world
with my own two eyes.”{NEW}
“If I'm lucky…
I'll be needed in
the new world.”
------------------------------
“Doesn't it bother you?
Flying around knowin'
you could die at any minute?”{NEW}
“If I were flyin',
I'd be living each day as if it
were my last. Well,I'd need
a licence first of course.”
------------------------------


And Wutai.  Thanks Covarr for help with older English grammar.  This is still in progress.
Old
Code: [Select]
Wutai, Godo's Pagoda
------------------------------
“…”
------------------------------
“Freeze!”
------------------------------
“You aren't from Wutai, are you?”
{CHOICE}No
{CHOICE}Yes
------------------------------
“Only those from Wutai may enter the tower!”{NEW}
“I'll have to ask for you to leave!”
------------------------------
“Hey! I can't stand liars! 
Leave this tower at once!”
------------------------------
“Oh, Miss {YUFFIE}!
Will you be climbing the pagoda today?”
{CHOICE}Yeah
{CHOICE}No way!
------------------------------
“Then I, Sacred Gorky,
will be your opponent on the first floor!”
------------------------------
“Miss {YUFFIE}!
You cannot go on to the second floor
unless you defeat me!”
------------------------------
“Yo! They call me Shake!
I'll be watchin' your fight with Gorky!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Then, begin!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Power Change!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Here I am, Miss {YUFFIE}!”
------------------------------
Shake
“Hmm, I thought you were just a girl,
but you handled that pretty good!”{NEW}
“Let's see how you do on next one…”
------------------------------
Gorky
“In my opinion, you need more training!
Gorky is disappointed!”
------------------------------
Shake
“No good!
You have to beat Gorky!
Are you mocking this Pagoda?”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Of course!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Shut up! Shut up! SHADDUP!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Who's next?”
------------------------------
Shake
“Are you blind?
I'm right here!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“What?
I gotta fight a punk?”
------------------------------
Shake
“Heh! Punk.
I'm more of an adult than some bimbo girl!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Wh, what did you say!?”
------------------------------
Shake
“See what I mean?
That kind of anger's what makes you
so immature!”{NEW}
“Don't pat yourself on the back
until you beat me!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Now watch…!”
------------------------------
Shake
“'bout the only thing you do really good is breathe!
Are you sure you wanna fight?”
{CHOICE}Stop yappin'!
{CHOICE}I'll forgive you
------------------------------
“Hm, so someone finally got past Gorky.”
------------------------------
“I guess it's Chekhov's turn…”
------------------------------
Shake
“Here I go, brat!
Speed Change!”
------------------------------
Shake
“URRGRAAAAGH!
So you CAN fight a bit!”
------------------------------
Shake
“HYAAAAAAH!
BRATBRATBRATBRAT!!”
------------------------------
Shake
“You don't belong here!
This is the Wutai Temple of Martial Arts!”
------------------------------
Shake
“Hey, you there!
Don't ignore me!”
------------------------------
Shake
“So you're just talk after all.
Brat!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“You can't go to the next floor
unless you beat Shake.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Ho, ho, ho…
It's been a while since I felt pain…”
------------------------------
“So even Shake's been defeated.
It's been a while since you
had to fight, eh Chekhov?”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Unfortunately, this is as far as it goes.
Staniv, you watch over there.”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“That ain't going to happen!
I'll teach you about the strength of youth!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Keep mouthing off like that, little girl,
and you're going to get burned.”
{CHOICE}I got insurance.
{CHOICE}Let's get this over, ya' old geez.
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Ho, ho, ho.
We'll see if you still talk like that
after you taste some of my Sacred Magic…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Ho, ho, ho.
What do you expect from a child
barely out of diapers!?”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Magic Change!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“I can't believe…you beat me.”
------------------------------
Staniv
“This should be interesting!
It's been too long since I've had
a chance to use my full power…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Ho, ho, ho!
What does a immature child know…?”
------------------------------
Staniv
“This is the average person's limit?”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“That being the case, we have
nothing further to discuss.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“How dare they mock us,
thinking they could sneak past us.”
------------------------------
Staniv
“First, Chekhov will keep you company…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“So you're here…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Huh? Who am I supposed to beat?”
------------------------------
Staniv
“HAAAAH!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“The rule is the best fighter on
each floor will be your opponent…
This is a five-storied pagoda,but
the fourth floor is the highest…”{NEW}
“In other words, no one has ever
defeated me--Master of Weaponry!”{NEW}
“You still want to try…?”
{CHOICE}Just come on!!
{CHOICE}I'll pass!
------------------------------
Staniv
“I like you!
Now watch…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Weapon Change!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“How unfortunate!
It was over before I could even
put all my strength into it…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Wh, what…!?”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Splendid!
You have definitely improved…”
------------------------------
Shake
“Oh, ho!
You might not be as much of a child
as we thought you were!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Of course.
If WE lost to her…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“You have defeated four of our
best, but now you will have to
face HIM!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“If it were not for Miss {YUFFIE},
I wouldn't be facing him…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“You didn't seem like someone who could
get to the fourth floor so easily…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“D,…Dad!?”
------------------------------
Godo
“I'm glad you made it this far,
{YUFFIE}!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Why, why are you……”
------------------------------
Godo
“I'll answer you by having you
try your skills against me!”{NEW}
“Hold nothing back.
Come as if you're trying to kill me!
If you don't…then I'll have to kill you!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Dammit……”
------------------------------
Godo
“Ohhh! And what was that!?
Come back when you get more training!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“I'll show you this time, you old Fart-meister!”
------------------------------
Godo
“Hmm? A slight improvement.”
------------------------------
Godo
“Come at me with all you have!
OMNI-Change!!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“H…hey!”
------------------------------
Godo
“What are you doing!
OMNI-Change!!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“…heave…heave…”
------------------------------
Godo
“…huff…puff…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“O…old coot…
not…bad…”
------------------------------
Godo
“You've…also…improved…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Hah…Ha, ha…”
------------------------------
Godo
“…Heh, heh…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Ha ha haaaaaa!”
------------------------------
Godo
“Waha haaaaa!”
------------------------------
Godo
“It's time I gave this
to you, {YUFFIE}…”{NEW}
“This is Leviathan Materia.
Take it.”
------------------------------
Godo
“…I thought I'd give it to you,
but you have no room for it.”{NEW}
“Then, come back for it later.
And don't forget!”
------------------------------
Godo
“Leviathan Materia?
Oh! So you DID remember.”
------------------------------
“Well it's yours, go ahead and take it!”
------------------------------
“You have too much Materia!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“But, Lord Godo.
Leviathan Materia should only be given
to the person who conquers and takes
over this Pagoda.
That is our custom…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“CUSTOM, CUSTOM, CUSTOM…
I'm so sick of hearing that!”{NEW}
“It's so stupid!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Silence, Miss {YUFFIE}!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Then what 'bout all of you?
With all your power…”{NEW}
“Are you satisfied being cooped up
in this tower?”
------------------------------
Godo
“{YUFFIE}!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“You too, Dad!
Just because you lost the war,”{NEW}
“You turned Wutai into a place like this!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“What do you mean?”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“You turned Wutai into a cheesy resort town
peddling to tourists…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“How dare you!?
Da-chao Statue and Leviathan are ashamed!!”
------------------------------
Godo
“…”
------------------------------
Shake
“She IS a kid.”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Wh, what did you say?”
------------------------------
Godo
“{YUFFIE}!!”
------------------------------
Godo
“Forgive me…
It's all my fault…”
------------------------------
Gorky
“What are you saying,
Lord Godo!”
------------------------------
Godo
“Losing the war…turning Wutai into this.
It was all my fault…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Lord Godo!”
------------------------------
Godo
“Silence!!”
------------------------------
Godo
“{YUFFIE}……”{NEW}
“I am the same now as I was
before when I wanted war.”{NEW}
“But, after losing,
I began to think…”{NEW}
“Is strength for beating enemies”{NEW}
“…or just something to show-off?”{NEW}
“Might begets might.”{NEW}
“The same as Shinra.”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“……”
------------------------------
Godo
“I knew you were looking for Materia
for the good of Wutai.”{NEW}
“But, the reason I hide my strength now,
is also for the good of Wutai…”{NEW}
“And now, I realize both are necessary…”{NEW}
“Strength without determination means
nothing.
And determination without strength
is equally useless…!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Lord Godo…”
------------------------------
Godo
“You there, please take {YUFFIE}
with you!”{NEW}
“I perceive that you all have both
determination and strength!”
------------------------------
{CID}
“Well, just tell yourself you're on
a big ship, and leave the rest
to ol' {CID}!”
------------------------------
{CAIT SITH}
“If you put it that way,
we can't refuse…”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“As long as she doesn't interfere!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“All right.
We'll take her with us.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…after that, how can we refuse?”
------------------------------
{VINCENT}
“Hmm…
You may come if you want to …”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“Jus' don't do nothin'
funny to our Materia…!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“All right, I don't mind.”
------------------------------
Godo
“Go, {YUFFIE}!”{NEW}
“For the sake of
Wutai!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Dad…”
------------------------------
Godo
“I'll take care of the Five Sacred Gods
until you return!”{NEW}
“Go!
And come back alive!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Duh!”
------------------------------
Godo
“{YUFFIE}, wait a minute.”
------------------------------
Godo
“After their battle is over…”{NEW}
“Do you think they'll still want
all their Materia?”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Dad…!”
------------------------------
Godo
“Go!
Fight till the end!
But come back!”{NEW}
“With the Materia!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Heh, heh…you bet!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Miss {YUFFIE}.
Your feelings for Wutai are the same
as Lord Godo's.
Always remember that…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Please take care of Miss {YUFFIE}.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Never bring shame on Wutai.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“She's always like this.
It'll be rougher on you.”
------------------------------
Shake
“You say there's some unusual Materia where
the underground pipe is!?”{NEW}
“But, first you gotta get if from a monster
and unless you use your head,
you won't be able to do it.”
------------------------------
Shake
“Did that kid mature at all?”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Miss {YUFFIE}.
We pray for your success!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Oh, you there!
How is Miss {YUFFIE} doing?”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Winning Miss {YUFFIE}'s heart
must mean you have tremendous skill.”
------------------------------
Shake
“Compared to me,
all of you are nothin' but a buncha babies.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Managing that girl must be exceedingly
rough on you.”
------------------------------
Staniv
“I would like to fight you,
however the Five Sacred Gods can
only compete with those from Wutai…”
------------------------------
Shake
“Sh…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“…”
------------------------------
Gorky
“…”
------------------------------
Godo
“…Hm.
You can do it…”
------------------------------
Godo
“Go!
Fight till the end!
But come back!”{NEW}
“Mat-…”{NEW}
“Take care of the Materia!!”
------------------------------
Godo
“Your Mat-…”{NEW}
“I mean, please look after {YUFFIE}…!”
------------------------------
Received "Leviathan" Materia!
------------------------------

New
Code: [Select]
Pagoda of the 5 Masters
------------------------------
“…”
------------------------------
“Halt!”
------------------------------
#o 2 3
“You are not men
of Wutai,are you?”
{CHOICE}No
{CHOICE}Yes
------------------------------
“Outsiders are strictly prohibited
from entering the pagoda!”{NEW}
“I will have you leave!”
------------------------------
“Fie!
To deceive people of one's
identity is an absolute affront!
Leave the pagoda at once!”
------------------------------
#o 4 5
Gorky
“Ah,Miss {YUFFIE}!
Will you be climbing the
Pagoda of the Five Masters?”
{CHOICE}I guess so…
{CHOICE}You must be joking!
------------------------------
Gorky
“Then I,the Master of Power,
will be your opponent on the
first floor!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Miss {YUFFIE}!
You cannot climb to
the second floor until
you defeat me!”
------------------------------
Shake
“Hi! They call me Shake!
I'm gonna be watchin'
your battle with Gorky!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Have at you!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“I call… Power Change!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“It seems I found defeat,
Miss {YUFFIE}…!”
------------------------------
Shake
“Hmm,I thought you were just
a tomboy,but you handled
yourself pretty good!”{NEW}
“Let's see how you
do on the next floor…”
------------------------------
Gorky
“If I may pass comment?
I feel further training is in order!
You have disappointed Gorky!”
------------------------------
Shake
“No chance!
You have to beat Gorky!”{NEW}
“You tryin' to make a
mockery of our pagoda?”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Of course!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Shaddup! Shaddup! SHADDUP!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Who's next?”
------------------------------
Shake
“You blind?
I'm right here!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Huh?
A childish brat
is my opponent?”
------------------------------
Shake
“Hah! You know nothin'!
I'm more of an adult than
some dumb,little girl!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Wh-what did you say!?”
------------------------------
Shake
“Haha!
Now who's the brat,
Miss Maturity!?”{NEW}
“Don't act all big 'til
you can get past me,
the Master of Speed!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“I'll show ya…!”
------------------------------
#o 4 5
Shake
“Well,you have the fire of
an adult! Got the guts to
go with it?”
{CHOICE}Stop yer yappin'!
{CHOICE}I'll forgive you… this time
------------------------------
Chekhov
“So,
Gorky has been
defeated at last.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“I shall watch…”
------------------------------
Shake
“Here we go,brat!
I call…  Speed Change!”
------------------------------
Shake
“Wachaaaaa!
Not bad after all!”
------------------------------
Shake
“Ahahaha!
BRAT,BRAT,BRAT!!”
------------------------------
Shake
“You don't belong here!
This is the Wutai Martial Arts'
Pagoda of the 5 Masters!”<<<<<<<<<<<<<
------------------------------
Shake
“Hey,hey!
Don't you ignore me!”
------------------------------
Shake
“So when it comes to the
crunch,you're all mouth!”{NEW}
“Just as I thought…
A big,dumb brat!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“If you desire entry to the next floor,
you will have to defeat Shake…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Ho,ho,ho…
So long since I was tested…
I have ached for this day.”
------------------------------
Staniv
“So,Shake hath met defeat.
Chekhov… how long hast thou waited?”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Unfortunately,her luck ends here.
Staniv,you should keep watch.”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Keep dreamin'!
I'll show you that
youth is strength!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Little girl… foolish words
end with nasty burns.”
{CHOICE}Bring it on,I'm a pyromaniac!
{CHOICE}I dont wanna fight an old woman
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Ho,ho,ho.
Let us see how well that
impudence serves you after a
battle with the Master of Magic…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Ho,ho,ho.
The impudence you would expect
from a child in need of weaning.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“I call… Magic Change!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“My techniques… dismantled.”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Intriguing…!
Much time has passed since
a display of my true power…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Ho,ho,ho!
What can an immature
child possibly know…?”
------------------------------
Staniv
“This be the potential of man…?”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“That being the case,we have
nothing further to discuss.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Do not make light of me
in thinking you may pass
through here unnoticed.”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Chekhov awaits thee…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“So… thou hath come…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Huh?
Just who am I against?”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Ha!”
------------------------------
#o 2 3
Staniv
“Up to the fourth level,it is our
custom to face those from above…
Verily,I consider this the summit…”{NEW}
“That is to say…
No man hath defeated me,
the Master of Martial Arts.”{NEW}
“Wouldst thou still make
the challenge,I wonder…?”
{CHOICE}You betcha!
{CHOICE}Pass! PASS!
------------------------------
Staniv
“Thou pleasest me!
Now observe…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“I call… Martial Change!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Woe!
My true power must
remain in shadow…
------------------------------
Staniv
“How… How can this be!?”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Splendid!
You have certainly improved…”
------------------------------
Shake
“Aha!
Maybe you're not the
brat I thought you were!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Naturally.
Even I was dealt defeat…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Thou wilt face the four
of us on the most high!”{NEW}
“Let us proceed to our audience
with the gentleman above…!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“We will not have
this audience without
Miss {YUFFIE}…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Thou hast come far…
But only through struggle
wilt thou findest verity.”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“P…pops!?”
------------------------------
Godot
“Welcome, {YUFFIE}!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Why?
Why the heck are you…?”
------------------------------
Godot
“You will question me
only with your techniques!”{NEW}
“Do not hold back.
Come at me as though you
mean to kill me! If you do not…
I will kill you!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Dammit…”
------------------------------
Godot
“What in heavens name…!?
Come back when you've
improved your technique!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“I'll show ya this time,
you old coot!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Oh?
Have you improved a measure?”
------------------------------
Godot
“Come at me with all you have!
I call… OMNI Change!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“W-wait!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Prepare yourself!
I call… OMNI Change!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“…Heave…heave…”
------------------------------
Godot
“…Huff…puff…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Not… bad…
P… Pops…”
------------------------------
Godot
“You too… have…
improved…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Hah… Haha…”
------------------------------
Godot
“…Heh,heh…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Ha,ha,ha!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Wa,ha,ha,ha…!”
------------------------------
Godot
“It is time I gave this
to you,{YUFFIE}…”{NEW}
“The Materia of
the Water God…”
------------------------------
Godot
“At least,that was my hope.
You are holding
too much Materia.”{NEW}
“Come back for it later.
And try not to forget!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Materia of the Water God…?
Oh! You remembered after all.”
------------------------------
Godot
“I have no choice…
Take it!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Well,you sure hold a
vast amount of Materia!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“But… Lord Godot…”{NEW}
“One who conquers
the Pagoda of the Five Masters…”{NEW}
“…One who receives the
Materia of the Water God…”{NEW}
“It is our custom for that person
to remain here as a new Master.”
------------------------------
#h 3
{YUFFIE}
“CUSTOM,CUSTOM,CUSTOM…
I'm so sick of hearing that word!
It's so stupid!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“You forget yourself,
Miss {YUFFIE}!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“So what 'bout all of you?
Your limited power…”{NEW}
“Are you satisfied
being cooped up all
day in this pagoda!?”
------------------------------
Godot
“{YUFFIE}…!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“You too,Dad!
All because you lost the war!”{NEW}
“Just look at what
you've done to Wutai!”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“…What does she mean?”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“You've turned Wutai into a cheesy
resort town peddling to tourists…”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“You should be ashamed!
Da Zhao Statue and
the Water God weep!!”
------------------------------
Godot
“…”
------------------------------
Shake
“Pity!
Just a brat after all!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Wh-what did you say…!?”
------------------------------
Godot
“{YUFFIE}!!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Forgive me…
It is all my fault…”
------------------------------
Gorky
“What are you saying!?
Lord Godot!?”
------------------------------
Godot
“Losing the war…
turning Wutai into this.
It was all my doing…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Lord Godot!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Silence! All of you!!”
------------------------------
Godot
“{YUFFIE}…”{NEW}
“I was once like you are,
before I was made to know war.”{NEW}
“But after losing,
I began to think…”{NEW}
“Is strength a tool we
use to defeat our enemies?”{NEW}
“Or merely a means
to flaunt our egos…”{NEW}
“Power attracts the powerful.
That is what leads to war…”{NEW}
“And If that is so,are we
not the same as Shin-Ra…?”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“…”
------------------------------
Godot
“I understand that you seek out
Materia for the good of Wutai.”{NEW}
“But the reason I sealed my
power away was also for Wutai…”{NEW}
“I understand now…
Both are necessary.”{NEW}
“Power without will is meaningless.
And a will without power is equally
worthless…!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Lord Godot…”
------------------------------
Godot
“You there,please allow
{YUFFIE} to accompany you!”{NEW}
“You have both the
will… and the strength!”
------------------------------
{CID}
“Well,you can put your mind
at ease. Leave it to ol' {CID}!”
------------------------------
{CAIT SITH}
“Since you put it like that,
I guess we can't refuse…”
------------------------------
{RED XIII}
“As long as she
doesn't bother us…!”
------------------------------
{AERIS}
“All right.
We'll take her with us.”
------------------------------
{TIFA}
“…After hearing that,
how can we refuse?”
------------------------------
{VINCENT}
“Hmph…
Come with us if you wish…”
------------------------------
{BARRET}
“But I don't want no funny
business with my Materia…!”
------------------------------
{CLOUD}
“All right.
I don't mind.”
------------------------------
Godot
“Go,{YUFFIE}!”{NEW}
“So that the true power
of Wutai may flourish!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Dad…”
------------------------------
Godot
“I will lead the Five Masters
until your return!”{NEW}
“Go!
And come back alive!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Duh!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Hold.”
------------------------------
Godot
“The Materia those people
have in their possession…”{NEW}
“Once the battle is over,
will they still have need for it?”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Dad…!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Go! Fight to the end!
And return…”{NEW}
“…with the Materia!”
------------------------------
{YUFFIE}
“Hehehe…
Count on it!”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Miss {YUFFIE}.
Thy feelings for Wutai
are shared by Lord Godot.
Please forget that not…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“I beg of you…
Please look after
Miss {YUFFIE}.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Do not bring shame on
the good name of Wutai.
Go now… and fight.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“That girl is incapable of change.
A long toil awaits you…”
------------------------------
Shake
“I've heard there's a rare
item in an underwater pipe!”{NEW}
“But… they say
you gotta use your head to
get it from some monster…”
------------------------------
Shake
“Has that little
brat grown up yet?”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Miss {YUFFIE}.
We will pray for your
continued fortune in battle!”
------------------------------
Gorky
“Ah,you there!
How fares Miss {YUFFIE}?”
------------------------------
Gorky
“If you have won Miss
{YUFFIE}'s heart,you too must
possess tremendous skill.”
------------------------------
Shake
“You guys are a buncha
amateurs compared to me.”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“Having that girl as a
companion must prove
tiresome?”
------------------------------
Staniv
“Alas… as much as I desire battle,
the Five Masters may compete
only with men of Wutai…”
------------------------------
Shake
“Man…”
------------------------------
Staniv
“…”
------------------------------
Chekhov
“…”
------------------------------
Gorky
“…”
------------------------------
Godot
“…Oh.
You're not too bad…”
------------------------------
Godot
“Go!
Fight to the end!
And return…”{NEW}
“With the Ma…”{NEW}
“…the Materia
I gave you!!”
------------------------------
Godot
“Please take care of that Ma…”{NEW}
“…MADAM!”
------------------------------
Obtained
{RED}Leviathan{WHITE} Materia!
------------------------------


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-06-15 23:03:53
Just wanted to thank you guys for dumping the Japanese text. I'm playing the Japanese version (my first playthrough of FF7... (http://i.imgur.com/dTcha.png), etc.) and it's a lot easier to copy/paste than to type in or draw unknown words/kanji to look them up.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-16 06:32:20
Comparison video (Wutai pagoda):

Before
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IvoutDXQlE

After
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q81b5bgIysc

I will be making a few of these for publicity and to get people understanding how lousy the original translation actually is.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Gemini on 2012-06-16 17:25:51
I bothered to check it.   :-P  The same as "Glass hairpin" is made clear in Ultimania.  These things are intended by the designers.  A way around this is for me to do both.  I can call it Omamori and in description "An amulet"  but this may just be silly.  Either way I am keeping Omamori because Ultimania and the bonus disk make it clear that is what it is.  An Omamori is an amulet, but an amulet is not always an Omamori.
Ultimania and the bonus disk were not created by the team that worked on FFVII, it was outsourced and most assets were created for just the purpose defined by said disk (notice the models for the Buggy and the Highwind, definitively not coming from game assets). In other words, it's not exactly something you'd want to refer to as accurate information as it's probably something coming from Famitsu or whoever took care of assembling all the data to create the guide and the disk. The original designers, programmers, producers, etc. had barely any role in the material you're basing your nomenclature off. Fun fact: I've never seen a sketch of the regular items coming from Nomura of whoever was assigned to additional designs.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-06-17 04:40:56
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=ja&source=hp&q=お守り&gbv=2&oq=お守り (http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=ja&source=hp&q=お守り&gbv=2&oq=お守り)

They simply would have used another word if they didn't want the audience to think of an omamori imho. Considering the vast amount of references to other religions and cultures (Longinus? Da Zhao?) I can't help but think this was a conscious decision. Ultimania and the extra disc aren't the be-all and end-all of ffvii documentation (a couple of things are flat out wrong), but they're still useful as a reference (as is some of the other Square media).

In any case I doubt anyone at Square gave a single accessory nearly as much thought as we currently are  :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-06-18 03:26:06
Have you guys considered changing "PHS" to something like "Party" or "Edit Party"?

It's kind of awkward as it is considering it stands for Party Hensei System.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-06-18 04:01:39
I think that's a backronym as nothing of the sort is mentioned ingame, I'll check the manual when I get home.

Personal Handy System usage was at its peak when ffvii was released so I think it's more plausible.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-18 04:27:41
There is no need to change it from PHS, since it works fine as it is.  Even if you have no idea what it stands for you know it is a system that allows you contact with other members.  The dialogue makes it much clearer too.  There is also a space limit in menu and anything other than PHS will look odd.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-18 11:16:20
Also it would look awkward if Barrett said "hand me your 'EDIT PARTY' so it doesn't get wet" before you jump up the tower with mr dolphin.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-18 11:18:30
etc.  Anyway that one is cleared up.  It stays.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: luksy on 2012-06-18 11:43:36
The manual does indeed call it Party Hensei System, still it's an obvious pun on the cellphone wannabe system and it'd be hard to integrate into dialogue as Livesey points out.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-18 15:41:45
I think I can sum this project up:   :o

Quote
Rufus
“…You better do something.
   I'll be expecting results.”

 ;D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: spy__dragon on 2012-06-18 19:56:53
I have a doutb about translation. In FF VII japanese version, the character Cait Sith does speak with acent of Osaka?
In English version, does speak in Scotish accent?
But when Reeve works in Shinra, does speak acent normal?

Greetings!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-19 00:16:10
His accent is fixed in this translation.  Both Reeve and Cait. This project is not yet complete.  See first post.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-19 22:15:58
On the Reeve/Cait Sith thing, I'd only give them both the Scottish thing if they both had the Osaka dialect in the Japanese version. Otherwise I'd only give the accent to the one with the Osaka dialect. If there was that sort of division in the Japanese version, I think it should be maintained. If there wasn't, neeevermind. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-20 09:22:41
They are both kansai because it is reeves parents.  Therefore both should be Scottish.  Reeve is not Scottish (he uses a generic city accent), Cait is.  We are not doing anything with the translation that changes fact.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: saftle on 2012-06-20 22:50:21
This is in no way an attempt to rush you with this project, but is there a chance of "R04" being released before the end of the month so that it can be included in the next bootleg configurator?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-20 23:05:44
Likely.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: saftle on 2012-06-21 09:17:20
I'll keep my fingers crossed. Thanks for the quick response.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-06-22 11:31:55
Are you guys keeping Reno's verbal tic somehow (…、と)?

Just curious as to how that would work if it all.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-22 11:43:11
yes we are.  I have devised a way for his zo to yo to be kept... well localised.

You are late,eh?

No matter what, yeh.

These dudes are stubborn,heh

They won't give in,yo

Gave it some personality.  It isnt literally zo to yo but that wouldnt work. I also haven't gone overboard with it.  Even when the dialogue does in japan.  Basically now he has the habit of using eh,heh,yeh and yo.

If you can think of something better, run it by me.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-22 11:59:40
To follow up my question on the dialect: Excellent! Good to know!
To add something on the Leno tic: Oh wow, good job. You guys are like my heroes.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-06-22 13:08:03
What about "..., see?"

「……おねえちゃん こいつ、なんだか変だぞ、と」 → "Hey lady, this guy's pretty strange, see?"
「考え中だぞ、と」→ "I'm thinkin', see?"
「ま、いいかぁ。お仕事お仕事、と」→ "Eh, whatever. Back to work, see?"

Just something I thought of, not sure if it's better than what you have or how well it extends to the rest of his lines. It's just as obscure as 「…、と」 (I've never seen another character talk like that ever), and also has a gangster/thuggish nuance to it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-22 13:29:32
He does use 3 variants though?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-06-22 13:40:03
In the Japanese, you mean?

I've only played up to around the end of the first disc, but I can't think of any examples. He often uses ぞ before the と but if he does something weird with his speech it's always with 「、と」 as I recall.

Do you have any examples?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-22 13:41:24
no, but I do recall it being zo to and yo. Unless it is zoto and yo?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-22 13:52:44
What is the nature of that tic anyway?  Is it just a speech issue he has?  How does a Japanese person interpret it?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-06-22 14:29:20
Well, I'm not Japanese, but to me it's like...

The normal use of that particle is when quoting something, usually in a narrative voice.
「家の中で走ったらだめだよ」、とお母さんが言いました。 → "Don't run in the house," the mother said.
In this case it could even just be like ~、とオレが言ってる. Who knows.

That, combined with the interjection 「おっと」 (which I imagine the end of his sentences having the same tone as), to me kind of gives off this lazy, detached impression. Like he's constantly distancing himself from the situation.

I wouldn't really call it a speech issue so much as a gimmick the writers gave him to make him more memorable. Lots of characters have similar oddities about their speech.

EDIT: For what it's worth, this is what FFDic has to say about it (http://ffdic.wikiwiki.jp/?%A5%AD%A5%E3%A5%E9%A5%AF%A5%BF%A1%BC%2F%A1%DA%A5%EC%A5%CE%A1%DB#FF7):
Quote
「~ぞ、と」という独特の語尾の元ネタは何かあるんだろうか?
  • 大変マイナーな上に元ネタである、という確証は持てないが、二見書房の攻略本「ソロモンの鍵 裏ワザ大全集」に「~ぞ、と。」という言い回しが何回か出てくる。
  • 1980年代中盤に片岡鶴太郎が使っていた口癖。これも元ネタかどうか確証は無いが。

I'm not familiar with either of those references, but that's about all I could find about its origin/impression.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-22 14:45:40
I will pass that to Luksy tomorrow.  He has been a busy chappy today!   :evil:  And thanks!  I will look into it, be sure.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-23 22:37:26
For what the original localization and comparisons to it is worth, Wind Owl's assessment of the speech tic does seem to summon up a vaguely similar sense of character.

Comparing the original to your retranslations, it does seem the original release can be used to get at least very broad senses of the character in most cases (Barret(t) not really as much, because while the broad sense of the character is there its really hard to pick out among the... manner of speech decisions, but overall).

As a result, the ", see?" suggestions feels a little... too thug-like for Leno's character. He's a Turk, not a common gangster.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-24 12:42:46
Quote
Luksy says (13:38):
 yeah Leno's speech is just something they added, you could legitimately come up with anything else as long as it's constant
Daniel says (13:38):
 cool!
 that settles it
Luksy says (13:38):
 I mean obviously making him talk like a retard isn't on

I agree that "see" doesn't work. Heh,eh and yeh seem to do it justice.  in VIII they made Raijin use "ya know" in X Wakka uses "Ya" a lot.  I will be thinking about this.  Any suggestions welcome.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Covarr on 2012-06-24 16:57:36
"get it" or "got it", perhaps? Not too far away from KH's Axel's "Got it memorized?" but not so overt that it feels like a blatant shoutout.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-06-26 21:04:41
Completely unrelated, but I made a JWPce  (http://www.physics.ucla.edu/~grosenth/jwpce.html)dictionary file out of your spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlJH_wU1qqN4dHBMSk9PUDZWVWdVaENobzBkSXlhVFE) for my own convenience. The only issue is that I had to replace all the '/'s (in URLs etc) with '\' because there's literally no way to have a slash character. It looks really stupid, but at least it works.

The first entry (which serves as dictionary info) gives you guys full credit and links to the spreadsheet.

Here (https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12713582/ff7dic.zip)'s the link, in case anyone else wants it.

(Instructions: Extract it to your JWPce program files directory, then in JWPce go to Utilities → Dictionary → Options → Dictionaries → Add → Browse for the file → make it look like this (http://i.imgur.com/qapFn.png) → hit OK)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-27 16:03:44
Status "Brink-of-Death" has become "Critical".  In game you never see this status anyway since yellow text is the indicator instead.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Livesey on 2012-06-27 18:40:34
I may be wrong but doesn't "brink of death" appear under the status menu?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-27 22:00:36
It does but what I meant was it is never used.  The yellow text superseded it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-28 15:57:21
I may have to redo the ending FMV due to slightly dodgy localisation, especially the use of Planet and not planet.  Planet starting with a capital letter has no basis at all other than an original choice and it looks stupid.  Like AVALANCHE and SOLDIER and JENOVA SYNTHESIS do.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-28 17:44:09
I'm not objecting to the change, but I'm not sure lower casing Planet is correct. The way its talked about in game... implies a capital. Naturally this wouldn't show in Japanese due to kanji. The capital implies a sort of importance and/or reverence. Maybe do it on a case by case basis? Like, Barrett would't use a capital (at least at first) but Bugenhagen (I forget if his name was wrong in the localization) and the Cetra might?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-28 19:33:57
Perhaps but it looks stupid in English.  No one capitalises planet that way...
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-06-28 19:41:33
That's because if they were to capitalize it, they'd just say "the Earth." Theirs isn't called Earth.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-28 19:59:31
Well I can't call their planet "planet"  that would be retarded, same as I can't called President Shin-Ra President  It doesn't work in English at all ;)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-06-29 22:46:42
It actually DOES work in English, and without looking stupid. You'll see it in fiction books sometimes, and it serves the exact function of implying more importance and/or reverence and/or special meaning etc. It doesn't look stupid at all. You can /hear/ a capital in how a person speaks, that tiny little extra lilt of import.

Look at these two seemingly identical sentences. Odds are your mind will do something more with planet in one than in the other, an implied importance. Obviously inspired by the game, but not to my memory directly lifted from it:

"The Cetra fought Jenova to protect the planet."
"The Cetra fought Jenova to protect the Planet."

It's similar to the difference between "god" and "God". Think about how God isn't the entity's actual name, but it's a way to reference a specific figure without using the name (which in some sects is considered blasphemous) but still give it more import than you would with a lower case.

But I will stop pushing for it now, I just wanted to leave those final arguments for it. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-29 22:57:13
Yes but you tell me another fiction or book that capitalised 'planet'?  God is a completely different issue and current thought says that it has no right to be capitalised either.  (religious types do it for respect).  I do not capitalise god in ff7 either.

The dialogue itself and story make planet important.  It doesn't need capitalising and it simply doesn't look very good in dialogue.   The creators of VII should have given their planet a name.  The same as giving President Shinra a name other than President. The fault lies at their end.

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Covarr on 2012-06-29 23:19:33
Whether it's important or not is entirely irrelevant. It's capitalized if it's a proper noun, name, or nickname, it's not if it's just a regular noun or word. Consider this sentence: "I love you, Dad, even though you're not my real dad." In the first usage, it's being used as a nickname or title. The second time, it's just a plain noun. It's specifically the context in the sentence that dictates whether it should be capitalized or not.

The Bible does the same with the word "god". In many cases, it's used as a proper noun, as in "And God saw that it was good." but when it's not, it's not capitalized, as in "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". Heck, if you want a more clearly related example, look at the word "earth". Typically, when it's preceded by "the" it's not capitalized, such as "After years of nuclear war and destruction, the earth was barren and the land no longer fertile", but when used as a name it is, "He got tired of living on Mars, so he went back to Earth."

For "the planet" you have a bit more freedom. If it were used side-by-side with a named planet, as in "Mars, Venus, and The Planet", it would definitely be capitalized, but in every other context it's just a matter of whether you consider "The Planet" to be an object or a name. Lowercase is probably better, but it certainly wasn't wrong in the original translation either (unlike JENOVA, which was obviously wrong).

tl;dr - This specific case is a matter of preference. Neither is wrong, but all lowercase is probably a little more right.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-29 23:22:19
I would leave it as Planet if it didn't stand out like a sore thumb and the sentence

"We are fighting for the Planet" strikes me as...  dodgy.  To say the least.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-06-30 12:09:11
Not really wrong per se(apart from Clod and Scarlet's Gya) but a little lacking I feel.

Old
Code: [Select]
“Gyaaa, Haaa, Haaa!!!
Here they come!”
------------------------------
“Gyaaa, Haaa, Haaa!!!
So they really showed up!”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“You sure treated us like dogs till now!!”
------------------------------
Scarlet
“You killed many of my precious soldiers!”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Gyaaa, Haaa, Haaa!!!
But let's see how you do against
anti-Weapon artillery!”
------------------------------
Scarlet
“You guys are worthless,
but my proud creation is great!”
------------------------------
Scarlet
“I'll show you the destructive
power of the Proud Clod!”
------------------------------
Scarlet
“No way!
This is the Proud Clod!?”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Whoooooa!!”
New
Code: [Select]
------------------------------
“Gyaaa,haa,haa,haa!!!
They're here,they're here!”
------------------------------
“Kyaaa,haa,haa,haa!!!
So they showed up after all!”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“You've taken us for complete
fools up until now,haven't you!?”
------------------------------
Scarlet
“And just look at what you
did to my cute soldiers!”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Gya,haa,haa!!!
Let's see how you do against
this anti-Weapon artillery!”
------------------------------
Scarlet
“You're no match for my perfect
creation,but like it or not,you're
getting a taste of it!”
------------------------------
Scarlet
“I'll show you the destructive
power of the Proud Clad!”
------------------------------
Scarlet
“No,this isn't right!
This is the Proud Clad!”
------------------------------
Heidegger
“Uuuuuuurgh!!”
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: WInd Owl on 2012-07-01 01:16:06
Heck, if you want a more clearly related example, look at the word "earth". Typically, when it's preceded by "the" it's not capitalized, such as "After years of nuclear war and destruction, the earth was barren and the land no longer fertile", but when used as a name it is, "He got tired of living on Mars, so he went back to Earth."

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/earth#Proper_noun
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Bosola on 2012-07-01 18:55:52
You guys do realize the habit of only capitalizing proper nouns in English has only been in place for about fifty or so years, right?

Edwardian writers used to love their capitals and deploy them even on abstract non-proper nouns, like "I joined the Army to serve my King & Country with Valour", etc. etc.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Isuldor on 2012-07-04 01:57:17
Waiting anxiously for R04 here. I can't wait to try this out!  :-D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-07-04 01:57:48
R04 It is out.  See the Menu Overhaul Project thread  8-)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: cbudd on 2012-07-04 19:28:53
Got R04 now.  I have to say, it is much nicer to read than it was before.  I had always gotten used to the oddities of FFVII's language, and now I would probably have a hard time going back!

I did run into one thing that is extremely minor.  At Aerith's house, when the her Mom asks Cloud to leave in the night without Aeris, there is no question mark.  It is phrased as a question though.  I think it was like that in the original translation, and it always bugged me when I saw it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-07-04 19:32:37
Quote
“Would you mind leaving tonight
   without telling {AERIS}.”

I think you are right.  I have amended.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Isuldor on 2012-07-23 17:34:42
This retranslation revitalizes the game like a fresh coat of paint.  I'd wager most people desire a remake of FF7 to see the it modernized with new artwork and graphics.  But personally, my concern is for the story being told and the characters.  With the modifications you've done, you've given a new voice to tell this old story.  It communicates ideas more clearly and doesn't grate one's senses with muddled dialog.

Thank you. I look forward to the day this project is complete. I'll be here to help as I can along the way.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-07-25 22:26:40
I want pretty graphics AND a retranslation, but I'm definitely more interested in the retranslation. I'm actually more fond of this than I would be of an official one though... an official one would be outright changed to accommodate the retcons the Compilation have created.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-07-25 22:29:16
I want pretty graphics AND a retranslation, but I'm definitely more interested in the retranslation. I'm actually more fond of this than I would be of an official one though... an official one would be outright changed to accommodate the retcons the Compilation have created.

Yes unfortunately that is true. Any new remake will strawberries all over VII.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-11 00:45:33
Yes I have not forgotten that I have duties here to finish.  Luksy is a little busy with life, and I am a little busy with... life.  Plus sorting out next menu release with Submarine fix and updating Anxious Heart.

Full time will be invested back here soon and I want this finished by the end of this year LATEST.  I can't be here when I am 60 year old saying "Well, we are 82% complete now!"  ;D

This retranslation revitalizes the game like a fresh coat of paint.  I'd wager most people desire a remake of FF7 to see the it modernized with new artwork and graphics.  But personally, my concern is for the story being told and the characters.  With the modifications you've done, you've given a new voice to tell this old story.  It communicates ideas more clearly and doesn't grate one's senses with muddled dialog.

Thank you. I look forward to the day this project is complete. I'll be here to help as I can along the way.

And thanks!  There are still some rough edges I want to smooth and some minor quibbles but I am satisfied with how it has been going.  Using insults and swear words is the thing I have found most difficult... trying to make it sound natural and not use same words.  For example, I am getting mighty tired of using the phrase "Shin-Ra bastards!" by Barrett.  But I can't think up something equally as effective.  Anyone?  I can't use stronger language, and most of the insults I know are purely British.  I can't say toss pots, tossers, pricks etc...  There is 1 use of the word fern however (by Cid), but that is a 1 off occurrence (and I am making damn sure not to turn this into a dumb "yay swear for the sake of it!" translation) and corresponds to the Japanese used in the particular scene.

Some Brit has slipped through as well like "Do one" which I will amend when next version is released to "scram" or "get outta here!" 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Antonia on 2012-08-11 05:02:00
Just FYI, unless I've been grossly misinformed, the vast majority of us yanks at least know (and many also frequently use) the word "pricks" from that list.  I don't know too many people who'd find that one strange or especially "British exclusive".  So there's potentially one of 'em to shuffle back into the mix, unless that was somehow listed as can't use because of being too strong... which wouldn't seem the case if bastard makes the ratings cut.

There's plenty of others that are rather well recognized most places I'd expect, but unfortunately the majority of those I can think of would almost certainly fall into the too strong category.  If I think of any though, I'll pass 'em along.

Of course, maybe substitute "scum" in there now and then.  While possibly a bit US flavored, who hasn't seen Star Wars?  I'd expect the majority of us die-hard FF fans probably know what 'rebel scum' means, and I'd bet Barrett would agree that yes, the Shin-Ra definitely are scum of the finest order.  ;)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-11 15:25:29
Scum is already used, so is ass and apricothole, lowlife etc etc.  I can't really think of much else....  But even with all these it still ends up with Barrett saying things like "Shin-Ra scum" or "Shin-Ra bastard".  I guess we will see how it comes out and make some amendments to it if it is getting too samey  8)

Thanks for heads up on pricks.  Didn't realise Americans use it.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: sen on 2012-08-11 16:22:32
Son of a gun..? :o meh
Is it just swearing words you need help with?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-11 17:56:59
It is the way in which real people talk when using slang. Barrett doesn't strike me as the type that would use son of a gun for example.  Cid is...

And Barrett has it in for Shin-Ra, he hates them...  so lots of his dialogue is referring to Shin-Ra in a derogatory manner.  If I keep using same phrases that would be a problem.  I suppose Barrett is the only one I am having trouble with when it comes to this issue.  Cid is pretty easy, he is a walking sewer mouth haha
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: PitBrat on 2012-08-11 18:52:32
Oh, derogatory terms are my favorite: pig, douche, scumbag, petunia, tool, shithead, asswipe, psycho, sicko, twit, gimp, buttercup, coward, wimp . . .
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-11 19:19:22
Oh, derogatory terms are my favorite: pig, douche, scumbag, petunia, tool, shithead, asswipe, psycho, sicko, twit, gimp, buttercup, coward, wimp . . .

of those: 

Most cannot be used in VII either because they are too strong or because they do not fit character.  Douche would never be spoken by these characters and I think would come across as silly for example.  Pig and a few others are already used.  buttercup among them.  The point isn't just coming up with swear words, it is coming up with words or insults that will fit the character and how it is intended.  Bastard works a lot of the time but can't use it too often.

I have corrected this one :
Quote
“Hey,chump!
   What's the idea!!?
   This ain't no goddamn show!!{NEW}
“Can't you see I'm busy?
   Get lost!!
   Or is it pain you're after!?”

originally I had it as:

Quote
“Hey,chump!
   What's the idea!!?
   This ain't no goddamn show!!{NEW}
“Can't you see I'm busy? Do one!!
   You're just askin' for trouble…!”

original game has it as:

Quote
“What the hell!? You *%^&!!
   This ain't no \#$*&^% show!!
   I'm busy right now!!”{NEW}
“I'm feelin' like there's
   gonna be a fight!!”


Shame about this scene is it is possibly a double entendre....  he says something like "I feel it is coming on hard", intending to be that his fist (?) is clenching or that he is ready to fight at same time as the obvious innuendo.  That can't work in the English, hence why the original game sounds so awkward.  He is mainly talking about how he feels Cloud, getting in his way, is going to be the one getting the fight.  Originally, it sounds like he thinks there is going to be a fight elsewhere, which makes absolutely no sense and is another of FF7's "wtf" moments.

The original translation largely got away with needing to think intelligently about the use of insults because it always used the cop out %^^#^#$^^
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Prince Lex on 2012-08-11 19:56:45
"Get lost" is definitely the better of the choices there IMO. We don't even say "do one" in Scotland, it's a purely mid/southern English thing.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-08-11 19:59:39
So happy to be able to read Cid like he's supposed to sound! I know the guy is far from polite, but the constant use of #@*($&# bugged the hell out of me.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-11 19:59:41
"Get lost" is definitely the better of the choices there IMO. We don't even say "do one" in Scotland, it's a purely mid/southern English thing.

Are there any other ways to mix up the phrase by barrett "Those Shin-Ra [insert word]"

I have arseholes, bastards, scum [rearranged sentence], murderers.  Can't remember any others but as you can see that's rather limited.  I wonder how it works in real life. I guess people just repeat the same stuff but don't realise it?

So happy to be able to read Cid like he's supposed to sound! I know the guy is far from polite, but the constant use of #@*($&# bugged the hell out of me.

Cid is so much easier... because he uses strawberries all the time, bastard, son of a buttercup, piss, and the odd stronger...  its not as hard to mix it up as it is with Barrett and his "Those Shin-Ra x"
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-08-11 20:06:30
I think that's actually enough, just be cautious you don't fall into a rythym. Like don't be Option A, B, C, D, A, B, C... shake it up as much as possible you know A BB D A D C C A B DDD A etc. Random like. Which you're probably already planning on doing.

Real people don't think about context this much to my knowledge, but things like aholes (I'm not sure if you mean arseholes or aholes) is stronger than the others, so maybe limit it to certain stronger contexts. Murderers is another one that may be a little more context tied than bastard or scum.

Just my two cents.

EDIT: Man this conversation is hard to have with the forum's automatic censoring. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-11 20:10:37
Arseholes becomes assholes if you select the american option in the installer  8)  I have done a degree thinking in that respect.

No I don't intend to go through random changes, but sometimes it would be good to have a degree of leeway. 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-08-11 20:15:04
Oooh, it's a British/English thing. I just thought arseholes was possibly an attempt to get around Qhimm's censorship of a-doubles-holes.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-11 20:32:23
Yup, we use arse!  I have no idea why we differ there with America  ;D  I am not getting censored, so I suppose there is an option somewhere to disable it?  Check your options.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-12 00:40:16
Ah ok, this is one for those who have played or seen the original Japanese text. I cannot be 100% sure, but it seems that the "scream" Bugenhagen talks about is a scream that is picked up from ALL heavenly bodies in space.  For example the planet screams and so does meteor:

Quote
{TIFA}
“A Star/planet Scream…
   Meteor…?
   …Or is it our planet?”

The Japanese use a kanji that is both Planet and Star.

If it does refer to all heavenly bodies like this, a better name for this scream for a non Japanese audience, may be "Celestial Scream".  I need input here, especially from the likes of Hian.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Antonia on 2012-08-12 00:56:08
Yup, we use arse!  I have no idea why we differ there with America  ;D

Me either, but I find it a shame.  I always thought arse worked better somehow, but if I say it that way I tend to get weird looks.


I am not getting censored, so I suppose there is an option somewhere to disable it?  Check your options.

Top Commands: Profile > (Select either Account Settings or Forum Profile).  Once there, a second line of top commands will pop up.  From those, select Modify Profile > Look and Layout

Down around the sixth tick box or so is an option to Leave Words Uncensored.  Tick that, save via the Change Profile button near the bottom right.

Should fix it up.

Back more to the topic...
I have arseholes, bastards, scum [rearranged sentence], murderers.  Can't remember any others but as you can see that's rather limited.  I wonder how it works in real life. I guess people just repeat the same stuff but don't realise it?

In general, I find most people do tend to be fairly repetitive in their trends where obscenities are concerned.  We don't tend to notice it nearly so much, because it's not too often that someone will repeat the same thing again and again within a given time frame.  Occasionally though, you'll run into someone who does, say after they've had one or two too many in the pub, and if you listen to them, they'll often just use the same words and phrases over and over.

I'd say go ahead and just fill in what seems to "feel best" for now, and wait until it actually reads out as people play through.  If things start feeling too repetitive, it should be pretty easy to make a few amendments then.  It's probably far more noticeable for you than it would be in play, simply because you've got to sift through all these instances more or less all at once.

In reference to the star/planet thing...  I'd tend to agree you're on the right track there, and (to me) celestial scream already sounds much better.  Though this is purely my opinion and speculation, as I haven't played the game in Japanese, nor can I read kanji, sadly.  :(
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-12 01:22:38
Luksy mentioned "Cosmic Scream"  this may work even better than mine.

Let's take a vote!  Unless someone has any other ideas?

Cosmic Scream or Celestial Scream, noting of course that we are talking about "heavenly bodies" like planets, moons, suns, and meteors.

(also in other news, I found a spelling mistake I had made in highwind dialogue...  "dieing"  DOH!)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Antonia on 2012-08-12 01:55:36
After a bit of thinking it through, I think I like cosmic better there than celestial, though I find either would probably work fine.

I definitely think both of them would be better than star/planet.

Also, it's been a while, so I can't recall the original English translation we were handed for that segment, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that the code bit above is the direct re-translation from the Japanese? 

Seemed like the first form I saw it in (the "official" English translation) it read more like:
Tifa: A scream from the planet?
...Meteor?

But that's based on memory from quite a ways back...  Either way, where I'm going with this is, I wonder if in the last line, she should perhaps say "the planet" rather than "our planet"?

Seems like from what I remember, most people in the FF7-verse would say 'the' rather than 'our', which also tends to better mirror real life speech here on Earth.  There would certainly be times and context where specifying 'our' might be appropriate, but it seems in general, most people use the perhaps arrogant assumption that 'our' planet is really the only one worth talking about, so 'the' generally suffices and sounds a bit more natural.  Just a thought.  :)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-12 01:58:08
it is that Bugenhagen picks up the "scream".  At first I thought scream was just from their own planet, but Tifa seems to make it clear that Meteor can also have a scream...

It doesn't look as bad in Japanese because the kanji used can be both planet AND star.  And probably has a wider range.   It could also be that it really is "Planet Scream" intended.  We need some conclusion to that question.

Quote
Luke says (03:03):
 星の悲鳴 the planet's scream, Tifa asks whether it's Meteor's or the planets, bugenhagen describes it as a sound that shines in the heavens, and that planets are born and die with this sound
 planets/stars as usual
Daniel says (03:06):
 but it means heavenly bodies?  or is it specific to their planet?
 sounds like this is a "heavenly body" thing
Luke says (03:06):
 nope, unspecific
Daniel says (03:06):
 cool so cosmic is prob best here
 ?
Luke says (03:07):
 I think so yeah
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: InuRa on 2012-08-19 21:58:17
First let me say I really like the idea of this project, even tho I might not agree with every single point presented, I do with almost all of them.

When it comes to the plot, it really felt like some things didn't link flawlessly so I'm hoping that when this project it's completed, everyone will get the chance to experience a more details and accurate story.
The point I don't agree on, it's basically spell related, like "Poisona", sure, it wasn't 100% accurate, but "Poison Null" doesn't accurately describe what it does either (maybe "Poison Nullifier" or "Antidote" would, but it would not be accurate right?). Also translating the ones that are widespread through the whole series might cause unnecessary confusion, especially to the players whose main language is not English, or still have some troubles with some less common expressions or meanings.
Regarding the most sensitive ones like Moogle and Cactuar... well at this point there is no fighting it anymore, plus it's not like the whole pronunciation was lost.

But; after going through the google docs table\sheet (just a quick look, didn't actually go into much detail at all) I have a few "questions" (or suggestions\fixes?)
One or two might have been answered before, as I didn't read the whole thread, so please ignore that one if that's the case I guess.
(Disclaimer: english is not my main lang. either, so if you see any mistake please cut me some slack :P)



1163   Jammer Armor         Shouldn't it be like this since it's an US translation...?
1832   Double Shield Throw   Keep it like this for consistency with other doubles? Or is it not a double? Don't remember this one and there is no description.
1940   Raise            For consistency with other titles this sounds fair but....
1941   Revive \ Raise II      Again, not sure if this goes with the plan, but it would surely fill the spot well.
1957   Mini               Decreases not only size, but also and atk power, also not to be confused with 2050 or... 2257? Plus it's widespread...
2090   Dexterity            Consistency with other titles, Agility is usually associated with evasion no?
2168   Vegetable Store      Isn't greengrocer not very... "US english".
2199   Please enter a name.   Ponctuation was present in JP.
2267   Damage = Time x 30   Ponctuation was not present in JP and it looks better this way :P

1787-1791   Some have the "from" capitalized, some don't. Consistency? Check 1303 too?

Also, if you're following the Official Establishment Guide, you're gonna have to change Barret to Barett, otherwise you're just contradicting yourselves or opening the possibility of chancing the others back as well except for Aerith. And it's not like english has a different sound for "rr" right?



Had a few more and the usual "Esuna", "Poisona", "Hi-Potion" and stuff, but these are more than enough for now.

Also it would be nice if the document could be expanded to the other "official" languages. It could help them improve their own and also use them to cross-reference the translation (if they were not translated directly from JP that is).
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-19 22:33:37
Well first, thank you for taking an interest in this project.  I should have made a post that we have finished discussing a lot of what you have queried, but you have no way to know that so I will respond to it properly.  I am also recovering from a severe hang over, so forgive me if I sound a little ratty.

Quote
(maybe "Poison Nullifier" or "Antidote" would,

Poison Null is fine, is close to the Japanese, and fits.  Poison Nullifier does not fit and Antidote is an item. I am not changing the names I have for them now...  it is 99% solidified.  The only change I may make here in future would be to call it "Null Poison" or some variant.

Quote
Also translating the ones that are widespread through the whole series might cause unnecessary confusion, especially to the players whose main language is not English, or still have some troubles with some less common expressions or meanings.

Quote
Regarding the most sensitive ones like Moogle and Cactuar... well at this point there is no fighting it anymore, plus it's not like the whole pronunciation was lost.

The installer allows you to keep Moogle and Megalixir etc.  The option is there for the most common so called "canon"


Quote
1163   Jammer Armor         Shouldn't it be like this since it's an US translation...?

It isn't a US translation, it is a UK with the installer allowing you to choose US spellings.
If you chose US spellings and it still said Armour, that is a problem.

Quote
1832   Double Shield Throw   Keep it like this for consistency with other doubles? Or is it not a double? Don't remember this one and there is no description.

This was changed if i recall to "Double Shield"

Quote
2090   Dexterity            Consistency with other titles, Agility is usually associated with evasion no?

No agility is speed, which is what this is.

Quote
2168   Vegetable Store      Isn't greengrocer not very... "US english".

I am not sure...  Does anyone see Greengrocer as non US?

Quote
2199   Please enter a name.   Ponctuation was present in JP.

I got rid of it.  It is not needed there.

Quote
2267   Damage = Time x 30   Ponctuation was not present in JP and it looks better this way :P

This is a SPOKEN sentence, and so has a full stop.

Quote
1787-1791   Some have the "from" capitalized, some don't. Consistency? Check 1303 too?

Yeah that's an error.  I have corrected it.  Thanks :)

Quote
Also, if you're following the Official Establishment Guide, you're gonna have to change Barret to Barett, otherwise you're just contradicting yourselves

I made an exception  here as I feel more sure that this is a mistake with the OEF, just like Leviathan is in there.
We looked carefully at ALL sources and we don't have a rigid "that says it is so it has to be" approach.  The OEF may
still be wrong on a few things but Barrett is nearly always spelled Barrett.  Look on google at people with the name.
Also note that he is likely named after Barrett Firearms.  When looking at it like that, common sense superseded the
OEF.  With written proof of spelling from the writers, this decision can be reversed.

Quote
Also it would be nice if the document could be expanded to the other "official" languages.

I have no interest in other languages, and I don't know other languages.  If people want to take our work, give full credit and translate from our work, I have no issue with it.

The vast majority of things with this translation are not being changed now.  I have gone over everything 10x and I am happy with how it is.  The latest update as part of the Menu Project is a major update on what went before. 
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-19 22:40:20
I will also make a note here.  Queries about non dialogue are no longer supported here unless there is a spelling mistake or grammar mistake. I am happy with the non dialogue and it is unlikely to be changing again.  Dialogue is the order of the day now, and help with that at the end is welcome.  Or corrections to spelling etc up to where we are at.

But non dialogue is now finalised.  There will be no further major changes.

Canon queries are also not supported from here on.  We have made the decisions on what to keep and it is final.  The installer does allow you to keep the original canon names and series canon items and American spellings but that is all.

Any further issues not relating to actual dialogue should only be brought up if there is a spelling or grammar issue.  The only exception to this is corrections to non dialogue listed in red and monsters in red/green.  Those that we are not sure of.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-08-25 00:49:54
Greengrocer is very non-US, at least in my experience with the language. I think I've heard of it in Britain and in less than reliable translations from Japanese (the first Dogz game used it and I would have had no idea what they were talking about without the context.)

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-25 01:10:17
I will add the change to US spellings.  8)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-08-29 16:30:01
On Cosmic vs Celestial - I'm leaning towards Cosmic.

Celestial does seem a little bit more like it would be more accurate (the term "celestial bodies") but there's a flow factor to consider too. Cosmic Scream /sounds/ better to me, and they also feel fairly close on meaning.

I think either would work so it may come down to going with what sounds best in your ear.

That's not a very helpful opinion, sorry!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-08-29 16:31:12
I agree that flow edges it... I think that's why I will go with Cosmic :)  8-)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Narzack on 2012-09-07 20:57:36
I just installed Bootleg with the Retranslation project(really the old mod in which I'm interested).  The problem, is I kept English Spelling, Canon Names, and Canon Items.  I'd like to do a complete retranslation, but not sure if I can reinstall the mod or not.  I have the Menu Overhaul with the Retranslation Installer.  Can I just run that with the options selected? Or will I need to uninstall Bootleg and reinstall?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-09-07 21:03:28
Yeah just run the menu overhaul installer again
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Narzack on 2012-09-07 21:28:16
Great, thanks for the response.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Narzack on 2012-09-08 15:25:26
I was just rereading through the first post, and I saw something which prompted a question.  If I understand correctly, you've retranslated everything up to the plot area of Junon.  After that, does all the writing revert back to the original release?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-09-08 17:55:14
A lot of it does yes.  However, not all of it is linear.  Most of the highwind is done (although when I go through the game it will be repolished also), experts hall is done, wutai pagoda is done...

etc.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DEFIANT on 2012-09-13 18:19:16
sorry moved
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2012-09-24 01:14:34
Have somebody ever realized the big bug in the storyline? No i don't mean the Phoenix feather<->Aeriths death bug, that could be easily handled by changing the death status to     unconsciousness (like in newer games),that means if someone goes down he's not dead but unconsciousness and Phoenix feather is cure this status. No, I mean Cloud! He is wearing all the time (1.st Class) Soldier uniform and nearly nobody in Shin-Ra is recognize him as such. He  has to pay entry to get in to Junon, he has to pay for using the boot and the worst of all: some stupid commander in Junon says to him he has to change his cloths.

By the way DLPB, I think changing Zack to Zax could be a wrong idea. There is another interpretation of his name. So the name Zack comes from the name Zachariah (Hebrew) and means
`Remembered by God`. On German sites I find a bit more detail `Remembered by Jahwe (or Jehovah)`. And that's what the jenova of Cloud is doing: she remembers Zack and gives Cloud his personalty. The shortform of Zachariah is Zach. I supposed Zack is a mix between Zach and Zax.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-09-24 07:18:49
The Japanese is Zakkusu not Zakku.  There is no way Zack was intended. It is stone wall.  The closest is Zacks, Sachs and Zax, and in all likelihood, including the reference in  Last Order, Zax is intended.  Just like Jax is Jakkusu in Mortal Kombat.

As for Phoenix Tail/Down, the game in Japanese (and now in retranslation) does not say that a person you use it on has "died"  it says "out of action" which we call Knocked Out.  Aerith died.  Also, battle elements are not the same as story elements, otherwise being shot by a shot gun (Rufus) would have killed Cloud.

Common sense needs exercising.  The game makes reference to Zangan using a Cure spell on Tifa at one point and that it isn't working (because she is too badly injured). 


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Gemini on 2012-09-24 11:45:17
There's usually a simpler explanation to these issues: plot ≠ gameplay.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-09-24 12:50:00
Precisely.  A game play that obeyed physics and reality would be a very stupid and dull game.  Game play is rarely the plot or intended to be (like collecting balloons on a mountain).  You have to exercise judgement. Unfortunately most people don't seem to realise the distinction... and then you get Advent Children where the makers tried to make a story/film work as a game.   ;D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Covarr on 2012-09-24 13:43:27
No, I mean Cloud! He is wearing all the time (1.st Class) Soldier uniform and nearly nobody in Shin-Ra is recognize him as such. He  has to pay entry to get in to Junon, he has to pay for using the boot and the worst of all: some stupid commander in Junon says to him he has to change his cloths.
There were never a lot of members of Soldier to begin with, and their numbers had severely dwindled by the time FF7 takes place. I wouldn't put it past people to simply not recognize the uniform. Remember, the vast majority of Shinra's army had a different uniform, enough that even many Shinra employees might not have ever seen it.

...or the developers just got confused.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2012-09-24 14:11:24
No i think the Soldier taskforce was implement in a very late developing stadium to highlight up Cloud and Sephiroth more.

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Typhlosion24 on 2012-09-27 03:55:42
Hi, I have installed the retranslation mod in Bootleg while checking the "canon names" box which i think is supposed to use the psx names like "Marlene" right? but when i 1st meet Barret's daughter she is called "Marin". Any idea of what may be going on?
Also if this project is not complete, does that mean that when I get to the parts of the game that have not yet been retranslated, the game will use the original psx text?
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-09-27 09:37:41
The former problem will be looked at for M006.  The other problem has been answered in this thread.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: spy__dragon on 2012-10-04 10:02:40
Hello, I have seen some errors, for example:

In the map "elm" (Kalm)
“The cannon's pointing north…
   You think the target could be… Sephiroth??”

It's correct to write double question mark in a conversation?

Other is the map blin67_2:

---TEXT058---
{CLOUD}
“{TIFA},help {AERIS}.
   I'll go get {BARRET}
   and the others.”

Ingame, I have seen that Barrett is with Red XIII, then "others", it's correct with one person or more person? Barrett is one person, Red XIII.

Greetings
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-10-04 13:09:35
Are you saying that since there is only 2 more in the group that it should really be "Get Barrett and Red XIII"?

As for the other, a double question mark can be used for emphasis.  Not sure it applies there though, I'd have to look.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: spy__dragon on 2012-10-04 17:24:39
Quote
Are you saying that since there is only 2 more in the group that it should really be "Get Barrett and Red XIII"?

Yes, that's right.

I mean, Tifa help to Aeris. Cloud help Barret and Red XIII.

I have understood "others" as "three persons", "Barret, Red XIII and other".


Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-10-04 19:27:23
Prob best I just change that to "I'll get the others"

I will see what Luksy says about the japanese.  May be "go get barrett"
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-11-18 10:08:07
I was just curious of the lack of news was good news, or if real life bit you guys in the bum and you've gotten delayed? It's been quite a while since a post so I just wanted to check in!
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-11-18 14:04:02
Luksy got  a new job and is extraordinarily busy with it.  I have several projects to complete including this one, but I cannot do anything without him since he is the translator.  In other words, this project is on hold until he comes back or until someone with equal competence (finding someone like that will be hard) decides to invest their time to help me.

Hopefully he will get some time and then we can just spend a massive week or 2 to get this finished. I will never abandon this project.

Luksy also needs to modify touphscript for the new menu project which is also on hold for the same reason.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-11-18 14:31:05
Oh okay, cool! Real life got in the way then! Glad to hear it's on the books still! :D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-11-18 23:01:33
I have said it before, but I will repeat... most people, Japanese speaking or otherwise, like to moan that FF7 has problems but don't want to invest the time to fix it.  It's a miracle I got 1 competent person on board.  I asked a number of Japanese speakers to help with this project, 2 dropped out (when they realised the magnitude of the task), the rest couldn't be arsed at all.   Finding competent help is difficult also, I had to turn away 2 others because they simply weren't up to it.  One of those liked to place their own interpretation on the dialogue, something that simply isn't acceptable.  I can't have someone feeding me lies about what is being said.

If people invested the time I have even in a fraction, this would have been done 2 years ago, instead it's down to me and 1 translator to complete an entire game.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-11-18 23:56:28
That's cruel! I wish I could help... The only Japanese terms I'm acquainted with are some Karate and Iaido terms even some of which I'm not perfectly familiar with yet... I wish I could help you with this project.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-11-19 00:34:52
The worst thing is, the same moaners will undoubtedly be the one's being most critical.  :-D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2012-11-19 01:18:16
I was never critical about your project or anyone who has invested a considerable amount of time in any project. The one I'm most critical with in my life too is myself... that's the price of being a perfectionist I guess...
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: KnifeTheSky77 on 2012-11-19 05:42:37
Regardless of the where the finish line may lie, you guys should be proud of the monster of a project this retranslation has become.
Who cares what negativity or pressure people impose, acknowledging that will only slow you down

Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-11-22 23:04:35
You're going to get hell, and that's the internet for you. I wish I could apologize for those people, but it won't help. I was definitely highly nervous about this project when I first found it, but I researched what you were doing and looked into your translations and I am just simply astounded. Final Fantasy has one of the more... colorful(?) fandoms out there, and I'm just impressed how you're willing to push on despite people being people. It's just a mod, if they don't like it they don't have to play it, y'know?

I know someone that speaks both languages (Born in America, went to manga college in Japan, has an original manga webcomic because she can't get anyone to pick it up). I think she's probably too busy with real life, but I'd be willing to ask her if you'd like! I mean, worst she can do is say no, right?

Thank you for this, no matter how long it takes. I really can't say that enough. I wish I could get people as loyal as you on other games. Chrono Trigger (SNES version) and Chrono Cross, I'd love to see someone as dedicated to the purity (if you'll pardon the term) of the original as you tackle those projects. Someone that can put up with the Square-Enix fandom as well as you have.

I wish you could get paid for this with all my heart. Because man, you guys deserve it. If you have any desire in doing something like this for a living, definitely add this project to your portfolio!

I'll stop showering you with praise now. XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-11-27 17:45:32
My Shangri-La beneath the summer moon, I will return again   8-)

Until then it's time to finish the numerous other projects and get drunk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftPdqLpslNY&t=03m03s
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-12-01 04:14:54
Ah well, that was a  short wait. Contacted Luksy and although he is not in the best shape in terms of time and whatnot, he has agreed to do a few maps now and then, so at least progress will be made and all in all it may be best this way so that even at worst projections, it WILL be finished next year.

It's totally understandable that real life and a harsh job take priority over ff7 though ;)
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2012-12-02 04:51:10
That's good to hear, or at least better! And real life is definitely a priority over a fan retranslation (or really, any fan based pursuit), even though I sometimes have trouble setting my own priorities to reflect that... XD
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2012-12-03 04:28:29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTeGr8CRips&t=02m54s  :-D
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: Luceid on 2013-01-13 19:46:53
I have to bug you guys with a stupid question.
If I'd like to use the re-written script but like to keep the fasle, american names, what kind of installation (boootleg-wise) should I do?
Are the japanese (1 to 1 translated) names already build-in in the re-translation project?
Does  f.e."canon-names" mean 'japanese names' oder 'ameriacn names'?

I'm kinda confused :(
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: DLPB on 2013-01-13 20:04:17
Canon names are just that.... the original english names.
Title: Re: [REL] Final Fantasy VII - Retranslation Project With Documentation
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2013-01-14 09:24:04
@Luceid - I'm pretty sure they're including an option in the installer to keep the American names? Correct me if I'm wrong, DLPB.
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: kiyobean on 2013-01-18 13:48:02
Hi DLPB, I've just come across this project, and I'm impressed with all the work that's gone into it!  :)

I've just got a small translation suggestion... you've changed "Shildra Inn" in Cosmo Canyon to "Schildra Inn". I think it should actually be "Syldra Inn," named after the character from Final Fantasy V.  (The names match in Japanese.)
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: DLPB on 2013-01-18 17:00:52
It is definitely Schildra.  Likely the V one is incorrectly translated as well (I would have to check the kana).  The word comes from the German word Shield.  Like the Shield Dragon (Also incorrectly translated, because it should be Schild Dragon.

See first post, reasoning is documented in a table.
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: xshobux on 2013-02-20 00:12:01
Hey, I have a question about this ReTranslation project that I asked not too long ago. I think there must have been a server rollback after the site was down (I had to recreate my account as well.) Anyways...
In the BFE, I have ReTranslation, Canon Items, and American Spelling checked (I left Canon Names unchecked since I prefer the localized versions). However, I am still seeing Canon Names like "Leno" and "Zeng" and British spellings such as "Mum" and "Tranquiliser". I think I remember you saying something about a stand alone release fixing this issue? Thanks.
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: DLPB on 2013-02-20 00:12:57
I answered this before the wipe out happened to Qhimm's.  Wait for The Reunion to be posted, it uses my own custom tools and should fix all these issues.  It also adds a lot of other fixes, and updates translation project up to Costa del Sol

Dan
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: xshobux on 2013-02-20 03:05:31
I answered this before the wipe out happened to Qhimm's.  Wait for The Reunion to be posted, it uses my own custom tools and should fix all these issues.  It also adds a lot of other fixes, and updates translation project up to Costa del Sol

Dan

Awesome, when do you think that will be released?
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: DLPB on 2013-02-20 04:05:21
As soon as this forum is said to be stable and I am happy with my new coaster game.  The new submarine game can wait.  Setting a deadline on it is pointless.  I've tried that before and there is always something that comes up to push it back by 24 hours.
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: DLPB on 2013-02-21 04:30:07
Mulling over whether this thread should be locked and then I can stick to the Reunion Thread...  I guess I will wait for now and update Reunion. See what happens.

Yup this thread needs locking.  I will relocate the main bulk of this in Reunion thread.
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: knightsoftheround on 2013-02-23 16:20:53
I'd love to continue following this, but where is the Reunion thing (is it a thread or another site?) that you're talking about?
Title: Re: [REL] Beacause - Final Fantasy VII Retranslation Project
Post by: Covarr on 2013-02-24 22:59:50
Right here. (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11649.0)

Locked.