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Final Fantasy Forums => Gameplay Modding => FF8 Gameplay Releases => Topic started by: Callisto on 2018-09-01 16:02:27

Title: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-01 16:02:27
(https://i.imgur.com/dulCXNl.png)

Download here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yYT5pmjsw7xJfwNWSdgT0A5BHzyf7eVs).


Introduction

Hello everyone, and welcome to the Ragnarok Mod. This mod was created with the aim of rebalancing several gameplay aspects of Final Fantasy VIII, such as usefulness of all characters in battle, the power level of Limit Breaks, or the ways of obtaining powerful tools to become stronger. Not only does this mod limit the gains from playing Triple Triad or makes enemies more challenging, it also adds various convenience functions not present in the original game, such as lifting the Draw cap in battles, providing additional save possibilities or giving the characters basic spells right off the bat.

Overall, the mod is for those who look for a new challenge and maybe those who would like to relive Final Fantasy VIII the way they did during their very first playthrough, when they didn't know the game inside out yet. Of course, new players are welcome as well, but should get accustomed to how the general gameplay mechanics work first.

The mod is currently for the English Steam version only. It has been playtested from start to finish and should be largely, if not entirely bug-free. If you give this mod a try and discover something off, please report it here. Also don't be shy to share any impressions about the mod, such as the balancing changes being on point or not, or any suggestions for improvement.


Changes overview

Spoiler: show
Revised junctions
The junction effects have undergone a huge overhaul to accommodate other mod changes such as altered spell availability, increased gains from weapons or natural stat growth (see further below). Major downgrades are mostly found in the HP and Speed areas, as it's easier to abuse Limit Breaks with high HP and with too high Speed, the ATB bar just fills too fast for enemies to keep up with the party. On the other hand, some spells have been made better on certain stats, and you can now junction more spells to Elemental Attack and Elemental Defense.

Triple Triad, Card Mod and Refine Abilities
As the gameplay imbalances of Final Fantasy VIII first and foremost stem from the possibility to get strong spells very early by playing Triple Triad, changing the Refine results was an absolute necessity. While you can still benefit from refining cards right after the beginning of the game, it is no longer possible to achieve power levels comparable to the original game: Tents no longer refine into Curaga, the Quistis Card refines into something different than Samantha Souls and the method of acquiring the Zell card has changed. In addition, the earliest you can win Level 6 and 7 Boss cards from card players has been delayed to later stages in the game, as these still hold some of the greater rewards.

Spell power
Some spells that normally don't inflict any damage have been given an attack value. For example, Break is now an earth-elemental spell, and Pain inflicts some Poison damage in addition to its status effects for a greater elemental representation in the game. Most offensive spells are now about twice as strong as usual to make them actually worth casting. To further encourage spell usage, the insanely high spirit stat of some enemies has been lowered. On the other hand, enemies now have the same magical damage output as the party, so they are capable of dealing high spell damage as well.

Damage limit
The 9,999 HP damage limit has been removed for all attacks and the new limit is 60,000 HP, mainly to increase the incentive to use standard physical attacks and GF more often in the late-game. This change includes Gravity based attacks as well, so they are now extremely useful on enemies that have high HP, such as Malboro, Snow Lion or Iron Giants. To prevent Gravity attacks from becoming too powerful overall, it was necessary to make a few more enemies immune to them, or give certain bosses that are vulnerable to it a massive HP boost to compensate for the change.

Limit Breaks
In Squall's case, the base power of each Renzokuken slash and Lionheart have been lowered. The same goes for some of Zell's and Irvine's attacks; also, their time limit to perform attacks has been reduced. Rinoa's Invincible Moon has been replaced and Pet Pals magazines are usually first found at certain locations rather than being available at Pet Stores right away. All of Quistis' Blue Magics have received a major buff, and most of them can break the 9,999 HP damage limit if her Magic stat is high enough. Shockwave Pulsar can deal up to 60,000 HP damage instead of the former maximum of around 30,000 HP. Selphie's Slots benefits a lot from many spells not being available early in the game anymore. In addition, Fire, Blizzard, Thunder and Cure have been removed from the Slot selection entirely and two new Slot exclusive spells have been added.

Rinoa's Angel Wing
The Angel Wing damage multiplier has been reduced from 5 to 4, so using this Limit Break still has an advantage over just casting Triple spells. Furthermore, spell determination no longer depends on what spells Rinoa currently has in her inventory. Instead, the spells she uses are now randomly selected from a set table that consists of only higher tier spells, with different probabilities for each spell.

Aura availability
Aura has been replaced with a new late-game spell that casts Protect, Shell and Regen on one character. Aura Stones are still in the game with their effect unchanged. However, they are very rare throughout the entire game and only a few can be found as a reward for completing sidequests. Aura Stones can still be won through item refinement, which requires a fair amount of grinding though.

Enemies in general
Enemies have been changed in many aspects, ranging from different stats, item drops and drawable spells to even new attacks being used in some cases. Tweaks to the enemy AI have been made as well. For example, enemies now skip their turns less frequently, may use other attacks, switch attack patterns earlier than they usually do and generally act smarter when it comes to self-healing and applying status effects on themselves or the party. The number of enemies immune to Gravity and LV UP/Down has been increased and some enemies are immune to the Vit 0 status effect.

Enemy levels
All enemies are now at fixed levels, to encourage leveling up and to keep perceived difficulty more constant over the course of the game. Enemy levels will gradually increase as the game progresses, so a Bite Bug that is fought in the final dungeon will be at a higher level than the Bite Bugs encountered on the Balamb Isle. Enemies inside Lunatic Pandora are no longer at Level 1, and the level of enemies in the final dungeon is no longer random.

Enemy formations
Many rather pointless encounters that consist of only 1 Geezard or 1 Bite Bug have been altered. Enemies now appear in larger groups more often to encourage GF and spell usage. In return, most enemies drop less EXP to avoid reaching Level 100 too fast. Enemies that you wouldn't normally encounter if you simply follow the main storyline, such as Chimera or Hexadragon, are now included in storyline encounters.

Character base stats
The natural stat growth of all characters has been altered (increased in most cases) to make them more distinct from each other and to make game progress less dependent on junctions. Rinoa now excels even more in Magic Power, Zell in Strength, Irvine and Kiros in Speed and so on. There are only few exceptions in which a character stat growth is lower than normal, most notably Zell and Ward when it comes to their Magic and Spirit stats (as high HP and Strength require an appropriate penalty).

Weapons
The gain in Strength deriving from weapons has been generally increased. Especially the jump from a character's second best to best weapon is now much more noticable than before. As a compensation, the materials needed for upgrading a weapon may be different and usually harder to come by than the materials you normally need. Other than that, the base power of each Ultimate Weapon has been increased. This value works independently from the bonus they add to each character's Strength stat, so a standard physical attack performed with an Ultimate Weapon will always inflict more damage than all the lower tier weapons, even if the character is already at 255 Strength.

GF
Every GF's Ability list and Compatibility values have been altered. Some Abilities now require a different amount of AP to learn. Items that increase Compatibility to a GF have been given a boost and no longer decrease Compatibility of other GFs. The Boost Ability is currently not available as it is planned to be replaced with a new Ability in a possible revision of the mod. As a compensation for the missing Boost Ability, the base power of all GF that inflict damage has been increased.

Summoning Odin
Odin summon mechanics have been changed in a way that he no longer interrupts battles randomly, and is now summoned by using an item called Amethyst instead, to avoid his often unwanted occurrences. After defeating Odin at Centra Ruins, the player receives 10 units of this new summon item, and 3 more each time Odin's chamber is visited again after all Amethysts are used up. There is no other way of getting this item, so the maximum amount the player can carry at the same time will always be limited. The idea behind this change is adding another resource management element to the game, and of course also to make getting Odin more worthwhile. To keep Odin and Gilgamesh mutually exlcusive, the latter can be acquired only by completing disc 3 without any Amethysts in your inventory, which results in Odin no longer appearing at Centra Ruins to give the player more Amethysts.

Ability adjustments
The gain from Abilities such as HP+40% has been reduced. The damage multipliers of Angel Wing, Darkside and Kamikaze have been altered. Characters now take more damage when using Darkside. More enemies can be devoured for stat boosts, including two new outcomes. Return Damage is available early in the game and has been improved. Step Mine/Traveler, known from Final Fantasy VI and XII, has been added as a new Command Ability and inflicts damage based on steps taken to all enemies. The Rare Item Ability has been fixed so that it is possible to obtain Items from an enemy's steal/drop slot 4 with a higher probability than without Rare Item.

Drawing spells
In battles, the draw cap of 9 has been lifted to a theoretical 100 units per Draw. Draw Points may contain different spells than usual, or change their contents over the course of the game. Some have been made invisible or previously invisible ones visible. Some Draw Points that normally refill no longer do, or vice versa. The maximum amount of spells drawn from a single Draw Point has been increased in most cases.

Sidequests
Several rewards for completing sidequests have been improved (especially the treasure found in Chocobo Forests). Certain NPC interactions that previously went unrewarded are now being rewarded with items, and on top of that, some new sidequests have been added to the game.

New Items
Hero-trial and Holy War-trial have been removed from the game, and a few items have had their effects condensed in order to create space for several new items usable in battle.

Other changes
A new Shop that allows for buying several items that turn into spells can be accessed in Deling City, further alleviating the tiring process of acquiring spells. Chocobo World loot has been rebalanced in a way that some items (such as Ribbon, Dark Matter or Solomon Ring) have been omitted from it completely, while others are still in, but have had their probability reduced (Friendship, Stat Up items etc). The mod also features a SeeD salary rebalance, options to abolish card game rules in every area, added effects to GF summonings, some new scripted enemy encounters where you wouldn't necessarily expect them, and quite a few other changes not listed here to leave some surprises.


Additional features

Setup instructions

1. Backup the contents of your lang-en folder (steamapps/common/FINAL FANTASY VIII/Data).

2. Replace the relevant files in your lang-en folder with the ones from the download package (keep movies, magic and world files).

3. Download and install Roses and Wine W07 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=13715.0) to the game's root folder.

4. Place the Ragnarok_mod.txt file from the download package root in RaW/GLOBAL/Hext.

To check if the mod changes are active, do the following: Start a new game and check Squall's spell inventory. He should have some spells by default. If not, you are missing the files from the lang-en folder (see Step 2). Next, go check the Draw Point in Balamb Garden's library. It should contain Double instead of Esuna. If it does not, Ragnarok_mod.txt is not at the right place. In order to revert the changes applied by the mod, replace the modded files with the ones you backed up and remove the Ragnarok_mod text file from RaW/GLOBAL/Hext. Ask for help in this thread if necessary.


Update log

Tools used
Many thanks to the creators of these tools, JWP for making Vit 0 immunity possible and for help in other areas, Maki for discovering the Draw Point array in the exe file, Aavock for decensor help, Sega Chief for advice on how to fix corrupted enemy files, Mcindus for creating an alternate title screen and DLPB for his Roses and Wine music mod and Hext tools.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: DLPB on 2018-09-01 16:04:08
When RaW latest  is released tomorrow, you won't need hextedit... it can then be done just by adding these to a folder and loaded at game start.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-01 16:19:44
Well, that's nice, looking forward to it. I'll update the setup instructions then.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: Mcindus on 2018-09-01 21:07:58
When RaW latest  is released tomorrow, you won't need hextedit... it can then be done just by adding these to a folder and loaded at game start.
Well, that's nice, looking forward to it. I'll update the setup instructions then.

Yeah, I'm going to be doing the same for a few of my mods. :)


But -- having said that, this mod seems AWESOME!!!! WHAT THE Strawberries.
Great job. But I think I would miss Triple Triad too much...
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-01 22:09:58
Yeah, I'm going to be doing the same for a few of my mods. :)


But -- having said that, this mod seems AWESOME!!!! WHAT THE Strawberries.
Great job. But I think I would miss Triple Triad too much...

Thank you. Regarding Triple Triad: Even with the changed Card Mod results, playing Triple Triad is actually still worth it in this mod. You can still get up to mid-level spells (Water, Bio, Meltdown) by modding the cards at the beginning of the game. It's only the high-tier spells like Firaga, Quake or Tornado and onwards that won't be available for a longer time. There are also some surprises to Card Mod, like the possibility to make Power Generators, for anyone who didn't want to mug it from Blitz, or messed up with the access to the items inside Lunatic Pandora. So yeah, I would say it's definitely still worth it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-09-01 22:12:07
hey

how hard is this ff8 mod?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-02 01:41:03
In case you have played the FF8 Requiem mod: On a scale between 0 and 10 where 0 would be the vanilla and 10 Requiem, this mod would be a solid 7. So it's noticably harder than the original version for sure. The spells given to the party by default are just enough to beat the first few bosses. You have to look for new spells soon to keep up with the difficulty as you progress. With leveling up being more beneficial than before, you should do that too. Though excessive grinding is not necessary as long as you don't run from every battle. Your levels should be fine if you proceed with the game at a normal pace. Of course, searching for new spells and leveling up is not always all there is to it. Some battles now require more of an strategic approach in order to win. Like in some cases, it really matters in which order you defeat the enemies that appear in the same battle.

If you would like to know something more specific, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-09-02 11:37:34
Hey Callisto

will the ff8 save editor break your mod at all, and will the ff8 in game booster cheats break your mod at all
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-02 12:06:03
No, there shouldn't be any issues. The Hyne Save Editor was even used a few times for testing purposes, and it worked perfectly fine. Just tested the Magic Booster and didn't notice anything wrong with it, though I would advise against using it when playing this mod, as it isn't very healthy to the game's balance (Curaga!). The Speed up function, Assist and 9999 cheats work fine too.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: DLPB on 2018-09-03 00:25:33
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v6bw43WVhWIPmxrJcMhX-qrFjgHVff8x/view?usp=sharing

Roses and Wine lite - Full installer released tomorrow.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.1)
Post by: Mcindus on 2018-09-05 21:13:33
Thank you. Regarding Triple Triad: Even with the changed Card Mod results, playing Triple Triad is actually still worth it in this mod. You can still get up to mid-level spells (Water, Bio, Meltdown) by modding the cards at the beginning of the game. It's only the high-tier spells like Firaga, Quake or Tornado and onwards that won't be available for a longer time. There are also some surprises to Card Mod, like the possibility to make Power Generators, for anyone who didn't want to mug it from Blitz, or messed up with the access to the items inside Lunatic Pandora. So yeah, I would say it's definitely still worth it.

I'm actually -really- interested in this mod, but I was hoping there was a version that didn't require me to change my game information, and simply be able to hext-inject.  How much of the mod is dependent on the 'lang-en' folder modifications?  Also, is there a way to 'throttle' the difficulty?  For example, if the mod proves to be a bit more of a PITA that I expected, is there a way to lower the difficulty a little bit in order to make it more playable without completely turning off the mod?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.1)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-05 23:41:05
I'm actually -really- interested in this mod, but I was hoping there was a version that didn't require me to change my game information, and simply be able to hext-inject.  How much of the mod is dependent on the 'lang-en' folder modifications?  Also, is there a way to 'throttle' the difficulty?  For example, if the mod proves to be a bit more of a PITA that I expected, is there a way to lower the difficulty a little bit in order to make it more playable without completely turning off the mod?

I'm aware of the lang-en replacement not being the most elegant way to apply a mod, but anything else is beyond my knowledge at the moment. I don't know how to do this per dll injection, but might look into it at some point.

The changes coming from lang-en folder account for around 80% of all changes. The best way to lower difficulty is still playing Triple Triad, even with the toned-down Card Mod results. Fira, Water, Meltdown and other low-mid tier spells are still first available through Triple Triad, and it's good to have them as soon as possible for their increased spell damage. As the game is now much more spellcaster friendly, it's always good to have a healthy stock of spells in your inventory. Playing Triple Triad at the beginning of the game also helps with getting a character's second weapon sooner than looking for the required materials elsewhere. So all in all, Triple Triad can still help quite a bit, just nowhere near as much as in the vanilla.

I would suggest playing until Galbadia Garden to see if this mod is for you. Up until then, you should have a clear vision of what to expect in the future.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.1)
Post by: Mcindus on 2018-09-06 05:14:58
Thanks for the info! :)  I know how much work this must have been, so thank you for releasing it to the forums!

I will be playing this soon, since I'm going to be testing a lot of my newer mods in the recent months.  I'm not the best to test for playthroughs, though - since most of my work will be pulling textures and codes, but I will definitely let you know what I think of the gameplay!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: qotsaninsoadkorn on 2018-09-07 11:08:21
excited to try out another Gameplay Mod but now i'll need to continue playing mine and start another New Game with yours :P for the full experience... Happy to see more people inspired to make Gameplay mods for FF8 as we have allot of potential with the tools around... even if i'm currently sad that i can't make AI script changes without the Textures going Corrupt... or just unlucky so far maybe with what i've tried...

also did you consider making New Clones to replace some of the Dummies...
c0m000.dat is easy to replace since it's listed in cactilio... i make a copy of Bahamut's file and modded that my NEO BAHAMUT Prototype... keen to try a HUE change soon... then i'll need a texture upscale to match i guess...
but yeah if we can figure out how to also use the other DUMMY's 144-199
that's allot of potential for Clones with Diff Magic / Items / Stats etc
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-07 19:17:39
A glitch regarding Angelo Cannon and Angelo Strike has been detected and fixed. For now, it is enough to just update your main.fs files (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1f31AdwH4zvJPvu4VhrL-7WvCvw5SAkNe), no need to redownload the whole package.

@qotsaninsoadkorn: Yes, altering the enemy AI can be tricky with Ifrit enemy editor, but you can already achieve a lot by applying changes by hand with a hex editor, using Ifrit only as a guideline to find certain bytes more quickly. That's what I did for the most part to avoid broken enemy encounters.

I have been thinking of adding new enemies to the game too, but I guess this would have delayed an initial release of the mod greatly, as it's not an easy thing to do. Maybe in a future update. Thanks for the hint regarding c0m000.dat and your interest in the mod. Might check out yours as well if I find the time.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Mcindus on 2018-09-07 19:58:50
See THIS (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=18404.msg259277#msg259277) post for the title screen release for Ragnarok (for use with Tonberry and SeeDReborn)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-07 21:43:35
^ Would be awesome to have this in-game when using the mod. Nice ;D

Due to recent events (saw someone playing the mod), I feel the urge to leave a few more words about the mod's difficulty:

As I said before, the spells given to the party by default are just enough to beat the first few bosses. It is necessary to look for new spells every now and then to keep up with the difficulty as you progress. Cure, Fire, Blizzard and Thunder can carry your party up to the Centra Excavation site at most. If you still don't have anything better for junctions by then, your party will be stomped into the ground by the final two Cyborgs there. GF distribution should be rechecked if they still seem unbeatable, to get the most out of the junction abilities (HP-J, Str-J etc). Leveling up can help too, as they are at fixed levels, but that alone probably won't do it. In case you wonder why they have been made so difficult, it's simple: this battle was supposed to feel like a real boss battle, and the Centra Excavation site as a whole more like a real dungeon.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: iDerek759 on 2018-09-07 22:37:05
The more I hear about this the more excited I get! Looking forward to diving in!  ;D

Edit: So just had my first test battle fighting solo with Grats in the training center, they killed Shiva before I could even get a cast off...  I'm in for a good time! xD
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Mcindus on 2018-09-08 06:51:16
^ Would be awesome to have this in-game when using the mod. Nice ;D

Here you go!  Just install Tonberry and SeeDReborn and then put this in /FINAL FANTASY VIII/textures/ - just copy/merge/replace the files it prompts you about.

If you don't want ALL of SeeDReborn and just want the title screen, you will need to place the SeeDReborn_hm.csv hashmap in "/FINAL FANTASY VIII/tonberry/hashmap/" but DO NOT copy over the textures from that mod!!  Simply move the 'sy' folder from this file to /textures/ as mentioned above.

Ragnarok Title Screen (https://mega.nz/#!fkA2BA5a!f-mM8zxrWsOPzzDHJNFBgTpCSQlT-5pxKwRdI-wleYA)

(https://i.gyazo.com/83245b9720998b2342c786c00bb72b4b.png)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-08 16:28:04
So just had my first test battle fighting solo with Grats in the training center, they killed Shiva before I could even get a cast off...  I'm in for a good time! xD

Wow, that's actually not quite what was planned ;D But given the circumstances (solo Squall, Lv. 1 Shiva likely being hit by Gastric Juice)... yeah, there is a chance she won't make it. Grats may catch the player off-guard at the beginning, but won't be a threat for long. They should be as tame as always after unlocking the first set of Junction abilities.

Anyway, thank you for giving the mod a try. If you play until the Centra Excavation site, I would appreciate if you shared how it went for you there. If more players struggle with that area a lot, I might tone it down a bit after all.

Thank you for that picture, Mcindus. I've been using SeeDReborn for quite some time already. This is definitely a nice addition :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Lunareste on 2018-09-10 00:18:17
Just cleaned installed on Steam, installed RaW and moved the FF8_EN text file into the RaW folder, but when I try to leave the Garden the game immediately crashes and says an unknown error has occured. I will try to reinstall again from beginning to end and try again

edit: Figured it out. Need to copy and paste the lang-en folder contents into the original folder, because the downloaded folder does not contain the movie file that plays when exiting and entering Garden at the beginning of the game.

edit 2: I went ahead and got the game going, beat the Fire Cavern and I want to give a couple thoughts. Although I would consider myself an expert of the game, I haven't played FFVIII in several years now so I'm going into this with a fresh perspective.

1. I did a couple Draws on enemies and immediately noticed the difference in the amount of magic I'm receiving, and I'm impressed with this change. I was never really a Draw guy since I discovered how powerful Card modding was to begin with pretty early, but if Card modding is nerfed here then I can see how this change is both necessary and welcome. I'm very curious as to how Magic is going to be distributed to the monsters in game, and what I can do with it because...

2. Magic is MUCH MORE POWERFUL than in the base game, and I LOVE this change! I'm terribly excited to see how Magic ends up in Rinoa's hands, since she's going to be much more proficient at using it (which makes total sense lore-wise). I actually almost never used to cast Magic because it just wasn't worth it compared to physical attacks/Limit Break spam, so I'm hoping this fleshes out the battles a lot.

3. The encounter length seems good so far. It's nice that it takes 3 to 5 normal attacks to kill an enemy now, it's not too fast and not too slow.The normal enemies aren't really threatening yet, but we'll see how it works out once I encounter T-Rexaurs or large packs of enemies.

4. Ifrit was actually a bit threatening. I gained a level or two before entering the Fire Caverns, and prepared for a worst-case scenario of him killing Shiva while I was casting. This did come to fruition, he seemed to focus casting Fira on whichever character was using a GF. I ended up leaving 1 character at full ATB to cast heals on the party while the other used GF attacks and Ice Magic to deal damage. Overall he wasn't too difficult, but your stated goal is to introduce strategy to the encounters and I think Ifrit's increased damage definitely forced me to play defensively.

Loving the mod so far and I'm looking forward to seeing how the game shapes out going forward. I'm DEFINITELY excited to find the new side quests you introduced and do the old ones for good rewards. Thank you for your hard work!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Divatox on 2018-09-10 20:09:02
How the draw works now? already draw 100 magics or something linke that?  :evil:
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-10 22:15:19
@Lunareste: Glad to hear the mod can keep experienced players like you excited. That's some very valuable impressions you shared there, thank you. The point the player can receive high-level spells is now more in line with other entries in the series: Around mid-game for Firaga, Thundaga and Blizzaga, late game for Flare and Holy etc. Card Mod can still help with getting these a little earlier, as said before.

And yes, casting spells is now definitely more worthwhile; especially during the early-midgame, they are usually superior to physical attacks due to their higher raw power. Towards the end of game, they lose a bit of effectiveness, as their damage increase in relation to the Mag stat is only linear, whereas physical attacks rise with Strength exponentially. But then again, there's still Triple, and in the case of Flare and Holy, they are now even more than twice as strong than in the base game, to make spellcasting worth it throughout the entire game.


@Divatox: Draw works pretty much as usual, except that the Draw cap of 9 has been lifted. Whether you can draw more than 9 units of a spell in a single turn or not mainly depends on the drawer's Mag stat. Spellcasters such as Quistis or Rinoa will be able to break that limit easily and will gain 100 units very fast, while others may struggle. So no 100 units per Draw guaranteed, sorry ;)

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-11 15:43:46
Few examples for encounter alterations (old left, new right):


(https://i.imgur.com/sTTDGQv.png)     (https://i.imgur.com/sOMWrv0.png)
One of the many vanilla encounters that only have 1 Geezard in it. The addition of Cockatrices makes this particular battle more dangerous, as they can now inflict high damage with their Thunder attacks.


(https://i.imgur.com/LTvL1rd.png)     (https://i.imgur.com/kEalYkB.png)
A better variety of enemies can now be encountered at beaches (in the base game, it's like 90% Fastitocalon-Fake most of the time).


Spoiler: The following image contains a little spoiler - new players (if there are any at all), click at your own risk • show
(https://i.imgur.com/DlSDgX9.png)     (https://i.imgur.com/NaWcmUq.png)
Something more threatening than a single G-Soldier should be expected at this point in the game...


Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Divatox on 2018-09-11 18:53:08
You edited every encounter in the game?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-11 19:43:47
Quote from: Divatox
You edited every encounter in the game?

No, mainly just the most trivial ones. There are actually many interesting encounters in the base game already - the problem is that these are often very rare. This has been changed for the mod as well, so players can expect too see previously rare encounters more often than before.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: qotsaninsoadkorn on 2018-09-12 01:01:34
No, mainly just the most trivial ones. There are actually many interesting encounters in the base game already - the problem is that these are often very rare. This has been changed for the mod as well, so players can expect too see previously rare encounters more often than before.

so you're also changing Enemy Diversity :)
i guess for me it felt like Disc 1 especially suffered from lack of diversity...
even their Levels being FIXED instead of SCALING for so many areas during Disc 1 is a bit :( inducing...
it does mean different MAGIC is available sooner though which means you want to be careful not to make it too easy to get OP i guess...
but speeding up the first couple hours of game-play a bit that was does seem nice :P
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-12 03:07:06
so you're also changing Enemy Diversity :)
i guess for me it felt like Disc 1 especially suffered from lack of diversity...
even their Levels being FIXED instead of SCALING for so many areas during Disc 1 is a bit :( inducing...
it does mean different MAGIC is available sooner though which means you want to be careful not to make it too easy to get OP i guess...
but speeding up the first couple hours of game-play a bit that was does seem nice :P

Yes, as enemy variety or lack thereof is a balancing matter, this point had to be tackled in the mod as well. The results might still not be optimal, as there aren't that many different enemies in the game to begin with - which in turn makes it tough to find enough matching enemies for a certain area or enemies that fit well in the same battle (a soldier alongside a T-Rexaur would be a no-go for me). There should be still a noticable improvement compared to the original though.

By the way, isn't it just the Fire Cavern where random enemies' levels are fixed on disc 1? That's actually how it is in the vanilla as well as in the mod. Not so sure what exactly you are referring to here. In case you meant the limited scaling from the mod: You usually won't even reach these level caps as long as you don't spend a lot of time power-leveling (limiting exactly this is one of the reasons for the change). I also think it's better to not have too many different enemies at the beginning of the game already, to leave some surprises for the later stages.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: qotsaninsoadkorn on 2018-09-12 04:02:59

Yes, as enemy variety or lack thereof is a balancing matter, this point had to be tackled in the mod as well. The results might still not be optimal, as there aren't that many different enemies in the game to begin with - which in turn makes it tough to find enough matching enemies for a certain area or enemies that fit well in the same battle (a soldier alongside a T-Rexaur would be a no-go for me). There should be still a noticable improvement compared to the original though.

By the way, isn't it just the Fire Cavern where random enemies' levels are fixed on disc 1? That's actually how it is in the vanilla as well as in the mod. Not so sure what exactly you are referring to here. In case you meant the limited scaling from the mod: You usually won't even reach these level caps as long as you don't spend a lot of time power-leveling (limiting exactly this is one of the reasons for the change). I also think it's better to not have too many different enemies at the beginning of the game already, to leave some surprises for the later stages.

Yeah i decided to have fun with it, instead of being too strict with my enemy combinations :P
yeah Fire Cavern but even BOSSES in the game tend to scale only UP TO a certain LVL...
for EG... FAKE PRESIDENT + GEROGERO only scale up to lvl 12 apparently ... many other examples i could give :P

and then don't get me started on how many have STATIC stats then don't go up with LEVEL...
SPR SPEED etc... I'm Looking at you...

even changing the LVL RANGES for enemy seems like a fun way to make it less predictable then just LVL 20-29 = MEDIUM...

indeed can't ruin disc 1 and give you access to everything, it's about finding a nice in between while not having so many 1 hit kills where the AI hasn't even had a chance to pull off a move :P
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Konichu on 2018-09-12 13:16:59
Hello, I've been playing this mod since less than a week and there's some moment that I really had to try hard
For exemple, in the second dream of Laguna, when you have to fight 3 waves of monsters, the last one is really insane, I had to farm like a retard to have lots of hp, since they have 2 AoE which deal around 800/900 damage and 2 of my member had 1k hp and the last one ~600 because I did not unlocked the HP. I had to retry this fight until they decided to not do it at all. Last one, where I am playing right now, right after getting Irving and getting to Deiling city, Tauros et Taurux, the AoE (when they attack together) is insane, 1500 damage to all my team, even with protect it deals a lot, I don't know if i'm a really big noob but I love this mod for the difficulty.

And I don't know if the ATB Wait is working as intended because when I'm in the menu in a battle, when I am looking for my magic, the enemy still attack me instead of freezing the ATB but mine freezes.

(Sorry for bad english)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-12 14:35:54
Hey Konichu, thank you for stopping by.

The difficulty spike at the Centra Excavation site is intended, to motivate players to look for new spells in case they still don't have anything better than Cure, Fire, Bliizzard or Thunder for junctioning. I see that the last battle against the two Cyborgs can be frustrating, especially if they use Boomerang Sword early - so I might tone them down a bit in the next update. All in all, stabilization is key in this battle. You can draw Protect and Shell from the nearby Gespers if you don't have any more left, and Dispel from Elastoids which is a decent upgrade on HP over just Cure. Of course, it is very beneficial to have HP-Junctions available for all 3 characters when you fight them. They are also susceptible to Slow. You can also save yourself the waves of soldiers before the two Cyborgs by activating all the traps inside the Excavation site, to make things a little easier.

In order to beat the Brothers, make sure to have at least Zombie on HP for everyone, which you can get by modding the Zombie Powders you got from the Gerogero Boss or by Drawing it from Blood Souls around Galbadia Garden. Regen and Demi are also available at this point in the game, in case Zombie is not enough. In battle, try to stabilize as soon as possible and hit them with their elemental weaknesses. The battle is intended to be very challenging and long, given the fact that it is entirely optional.

About the ATB: I know it can appear the way you described, but it's working as always. In the case of the Cyborgs, they are just very fast (especially after throwing their weapon), and Minotaur immediately uses a follow-up attack after being healed (Sacred does this too, but sometimes he just heals without doing a attack immediately after). I would recommend lowering the battle speed in order to have more time to react to certain moves accordingly.



   
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Lunareste on 2018-09-19 02:11:23
Hello, here to provide more feedback from my experiences. To give a bit of perspective, I have been grinding a bit more than I ever have during normal gameplay in order to stay "ahead of the curve" because I know the purpose of this mod is to make the game more difficult. I'm not doing Korean MMO-grindfest type gameplay, but I am taking on more random encounters in order to gain AP for important junctions before you traditionally earn them through the course of normal gameplay.

SeeD mission in Dollet: This portion of the game seems well balanced, actually. I will say that running into double Red G-Army soldiers was actually quite threatening, they do a lot of hard damage and aren't pushovers. My characters without HP-Junction were actually killed a few times throughout the mission (importantly, this depleted my supply of Phoenix Down, more on that later). I didn't have any problems with Elvoret or Biggs and Wedge encounters, seemed solid. I tried to kill the X-ATM092 the traditional way, I had stocked up on Lightning Magic but it wasn't nearly enough to kill him.

Timber mission: An important thing I noticed is how few opportunities you have prior to this battle to stock up on items you need in Timber. I did not purchase any Phoenix Downs prior to leaving Balamb, and unless I am mistaken, there is no opportunity to purchase more from a vendor within the city. With two Phoenix Down left and with a party member dead, I had to force the story forward (instead of exploring the city's side quests) in order to use a one-time rest at the inn of the leader of the Forest Fox because the regular inn is not available while the town is under occupation. If I could give a suggestion, I think having the G-Soldiers you encounter while running around town drop Phoenix Downs may alleviate this issue.

Battle vs. the President's body double: Probably the hardest battle I'd encountered so far. Again, I tried to kill him the traditional way a few times but ended up wiping and getting a game over. At this point I became very conscious of the changes you made to character's stats and strengths. I had already noticed that Selphie and Squall are much better at using magic then Zell, but after a few wipes I completely rebalanced my character's magic inventories and Battle abilities via Junction to maximize their effectiveness. I stopped equipping the Magic command and gave Zell the Item command instead; I'd given Selphie the exclusive job of casting our party's strongest heals at Gerogero. I have to say that I am very, VERY pleased with how this aspect of your rebalance is turning out.

Post-Timber: After leaving the train station at West Academy, I instead traveled to Dollet to use the in-game vendors and purchased the Phoenix Downs that I felt that I needed. At this point I decided to do some more AP grinding and unlock Diablos along with the the 3rd HP Junction, which I felt was increasingly necessary. I did wipe to Diablos a few of times, but after some more junction optimization (now getting Rinoa to Stock/Cast Demi because of her advanced Magic stat) I was able to beat him. After getting him to low HP his physical attacks increased in frequency and this is where he was the most dangerous, it seems his speed is a bit high. Overall, I don't have suggestions for this encounter. His difficulty seems reasonable for an optional boss encounter.

The Centra Excavation: I'd gone into Centra without much problem. I was quite upset because I did wipe and lose about 20 minutes worth of progress to a single Elastoid, though. After they go haywire, their spellcast (forgot it's name, sorry) casts for about 800 damage to all party members. Without prior knowledge that this powerful attack would occur, I lost two party members to the first cast and before I could run away or even fill my Laguna's ATB bar, he used the same attack again without me being able to do anything. Lesson learned, maybe I should pay more attention to what the enemies are doing. I did encounter a Gesper and learned about their magic inventory which I took advantage of to get a full stock of Protect and Shell on two characters. I'm not sure whether this is intended, but they present no threat to the party at all. Their single physical attacks inflicts only about 150 damage, and they often attack each other and heal the party. For such a powerful defensive junctioning magic, I think maybe they should be a bit harder to get than through a Gesper that most likely won't kill you.

The final encounter at the Excavation site: I previously used the site's defensive measures to get rid of some of the enemy soldiers that attack you, and that was fortunate for me because this encounter is RIDICULOUSLY HARD. At this point, Kiros had 1000 HP, Laguna had about 1300 HP. Ward had 1500 with 100 Protect and Shell junctioned to physical and magic damage reduction. Despite this, I still died to this about 5 or 6 times total, each time rotating magic and junctions absolutely maximize the amount of damage that my party can take. During the final encounter with the two black-suited Esthar Soldiers, the amount of damage they can do in succession is absolutely ridiculous. I'd often get hit with double Boomerang Sword followed quickly by their physical attack or Aero, which did 400 damage or 800 damage respectively. I only had two options to begin the encounter: try to cast GF as quickly as possible on all of my characters to absorb one of these blows, or hope that I started the encounter with enough ATB to even get off a Protect on any of my characters. I quickly learned that the 2nd option was not really feasible because one or two of my characters would die to the incoming attacks anyway, and the AI was smart enough to start casting Aero against me before I could also cast Shell on anyone/everyone. In the end, the option that worked for me was to use Mega Potions to negate Boomerang Sword damage and heal the entire party as I used others to cast protective spells.  Overall I am displeased with this encounter because it is too difficult and because I feel like any chance to beat it is purely RNG dependent. I don't feel like I earned my victory here, despite my efforts to maximize my characters defensive potential at this juncture of the game. I feel like I beat it because I got lucky and the enemy skipped a turn or two.

Overall I am happy to report that I am VERY satisfied with the mod overall though. If I may offer one more important bit of feedback, and this may be an extreme suggestion, but would you consider disabling the GF command in battle? There's not really a lot of strategy to them offensively, they do too much damage to regular monsters and the most efficient option to winning battles is just to cast one and kill everything at once. I'm tired of watching these animations and being so disengaged once they're cast that I'm looking at my phone instead of my screen. I can only think of one strategic use for GFs in battle, which I had to employ against the Esthar soldiers: sacrifice the GF in order to eat an otherwise deadly or disadvantageous attack. I could see this sacrifice being useful later as an intriguing option for early Ultimecia's castle, but otherwise I feel like they are too efficient not to use throughout the game.

Likewise, I don't use Zell in my party any more because his potential damage is so much less than the GF attacks or casted magic that he's pretty useless. I'm not sure how to fix this issue other than maybe making him naturally more tanky than other characters?

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-19 15:07:12
SeeD mission in Dollet: This portion of the game seems well balanced, actually. I will say that running into double Red G-Army soldiers was actually quite threatening, they do a lot of hard damage and aren't pushovers. My characters without HP-Junction were actually killed a few times throughout the mission (importantly, this depleted my supply of Phoenix Down, more on that later). I didn't have any problems with Elvoret or Biggs and Wedge encounters, seemed solid. I tried to kill the X-ATM092 the traditional way, I had stocked up on Lightning Magic but it wasn't nearly enough to kill him.

It's good to hear that the Elite Soldiers provided a bit of a challenge to you. That's exactly what I had in mind for them: Noticably more robust over generic G-Soldiers while dealing good damage, without turning them into killing machines. The main reason for making them stronger is their interactions with other enemies, which were hardly ever seen in the base game, because pretty much all soldiers die after one or two hits. To beat the X-ATM092, it is important to always be prepared for an incoming Ray-Bomb (it is used like every 5th turn) and to damage it at the right time in order to make it go into repair mode again as soon as possible. The Double spells from Balamb Garden are also very helpful here, should there be some left.

Quote
Timber mission: An important thing I noticed is how few opportunities you have prior to this battle to stock up on items you need in Timber. I did not purchase any Phoenix Downs prior to leaving Balamb, and unless I am mistaken, there is no opportunity to purchase more from a vendor within the city. With two Phoenix Down left and with a party member dead, I had to force the story forward (instead of exploring the city's side quests) in order to use a one-time rest at the inn of the leader of the Forest Fox because the regular inn is not available while the town is under occupation. If I could give a suggestion, I think having the G-Soldiers you encounter while running around town drop Phoenix Downs may alleviate this issue.

There is a vendor in front of the pub entrance that can be accessed after completing the train mission. You probably just overlooked her. Still, it is indeed advisable to buy some items before leaving Balamb because of the Gerogero boss fight. While we are at it: Inside Timber pub, buying the man the right drink is now more worth it instead of just showing him the Buel card. 

Quote
Battle vs. the President's body double: Probably the hardest battle I'd encountered so far. Again, I tried to kill him the traditional way a few times but ended up wiping and getting a game over. At this point I became very conscious of the changes you made to character's stats and strengths. I had already noticed that Selphie and Squall are much better at using magic then Zell, but after a few wipes I completely rebalanced my character's magic inventories and Battle abilities via Junction to maximize their effectiveness. I stopped equipping the Magic command and gave Zell the Item command instead; I'd given Selphie the exclusive job of casting our party's strongest heals at Gerogero. I have to say that I am very, VERY pleased with how this aspect of your rebalance is turning out.

...

Likewise, I don't use Zell in my party any more because his potential damage is so much less than the GF attacks or casted magic that he's pretty useless. I'm not sure how to fix this issue other than maybe making him naturally more tanky than other characters?

Good you realized that Zell is not suited for taking the role of a mage at all. Even with Mag-J available, other characters will be noticably more proficient in spellcasting (the order is Rinoa > Selphie > Quistis > Squall > Irvine > Zell). As mentioned in the changes overview, his low Magic and Spirit stats are meant as a penalty for his high HP and Strength. The fact that physical attacks lack the solid raw power of spells might lead to the impression that having Zell in the party is not worth it. Keep it mind though that physical attacks rise with Strength exponentially, so Zell will become a valuable fighter as his Strength stat rises. If he gets Ifrit and his second weapon (the required Dragon Fins can be received from the Grendels in the forest before Galbadia Garden, or Card Mod), while having something like Aero junctioned to Strength, his Strength should be around 100 - which is pretty much the point where physical attacks start getting strong enough to rival the power of spells or GF.


About the Centra Excavation site: I rechecked the damage of Elastoid's Reflect Beam and 800 damage is indeed a bit much for this point in the game. Gespers have always been attacking allies and foes alike - a unique trait that I wanted to keep for the mod. It is correct that they are relatively weak compared to other enemies at the site, but keep in mind that they start using Degenerator from medium levels onwards. The final two Cyborgs will be nerfed with the next update coming later today:

- Boomerang Sword will deal 200-300 less damage
- The critical hit rate from Shotgun and their Punch attack will be reduced
- Their speed multiplier after throwing their weapon will be reduced from x2 to x1.5

Quote
If I may offer one more important bit of feedback, and this may be an extreme suggestion, but would you consider disabling the GF command in battle? There's not really a lot of strategy to them offensively, they do too much damage to regular monsters and the most efficient option to winning battles is just to cast one and kill everything at once.

I wouldn't really like to remove them altogether, but I'm considering lowering their base power a bit. For now, further increasing Zells base Strength as part the update should help with dealing some quick damage during battles. Which spells are you currently having junctioned to Strength by the way? After completing the Centra Excavation site, it should be at least Aero, which can be easily obtained from Thrust Aevis around Timber.

Again, thank you for your input. It is really interesting to discuss all these little details that hardly ever mattered in the original game. Feel free to share more impressions in the future.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-19 15:46:58
v1.0.3 released (see opening post)

For a quick update, you can just update your battle and main files by downloading this file (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1doG0Ve0pxJDY-Zkzopz9qGD-4FauinHB).

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: DLPB on 2018-09-20 12:19:34
Suggest you call your global file something else - in case other modders make their own.  Ragnarok_mod.txt or something.  ;)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-20 15:40:09
Ah, I actually wanted to do that some time ago, once I realized that the file name doesn't matter at all. Thanks for reminding. Changed now.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: DLPB on 2018-09-20 20:41:22
Yeah, the filename only matters when you want them adding in a specific order- as they are processed alphabetically.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-23 14:25:30
Coming soon:


If you have own ideas don't hesitate to share. I'll see what I can do then.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-09-23 14:30:21
Hey

I have idea to share, how about you try to add in more seifer boss battles on your mod please, and try changing the boss battles on the final boss castle on disc 4 to different much more harder bosses
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-23 14:51:08
More Seifer battles? Might be difficult to find some good placements for them throughout the story. But I'll keep that idea in mind.

As for the castle bosses, have you already beaten them in the mod? Sphinxara, Krysta and Tri-Point are still not that hard as there have to be some easier bosses due to the seals, but the rest should be pretty rough, even with solid junctions. 
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: iDerek759 on 2018-09-24 12:12:51
So I'm at the Tomb of the Unknown King, and the Brothers are absolutely wiping the floor with me... I'm wondering, are they meant to be obtainable as early as disc 1, or do I need to come back on disc 2 after I've beefed up my characters a bit?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-24 14:55:17
They are meant to be obtainable right away and provide important tools for stabilization themselves: Protect and Double. So start the battle by casting these on every character. As for the Mad Cow Special attack, you have to find a way to reduce or negate its damage. It is earth-elemental and used by Sacred every ~10th turn as long as Minotaur is alive. So you can kind of predict when it lands. If you feel like they are generelly too fast, lowering battle speed might help.

I hope this helps. Report back if necessary.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-24 19:36:05
Smaller update already out today:


Click here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1KoAPgGK4-qKeg0RkqPDZAjhrmqhy5JNO) for quick update (replace your main.fs files from lang-en).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.4)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-09-24 19:44:33
hey

i have another idea for your mod, on the end of disc 2 in the garden where you get the keycodes, how about you put bosses there insted to get the keycodes to unlock the doors in the garden at the end of disc 2, what do you think about that idea
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.4)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-09-25 08:59:44
The fight on top of the desert prison is very overtuned against you. Turn 1 meltdown for 900-1300 damage depending if its the char with spr-v or not. Then the robots can either take half of your hp with missle or ray bomb everyone for 1k-1.2k and apply vit0 to the whole party. If you try to set up defensivly wiht double + barrier + shell you almost always will lose a character. If they dont split their damage evenly then its insta loss. This entire fight feels more like RNG than skill. If you manage to set up or survive the inital onlaught then the captain in the back cast curaga for 3.5k heal and he will spam that. Either all of the numbers need to be reduced or their speed has to be slower or the captain needs to not have aura curaga and shell all at the same time.

Edit: Beat the fight with a perfect set of circumstances. Got protect off on Rinoa before enemy took action, captain used aura instead of meltdown first, squall displled and rinoa queued up quez. meltdown on quez and no other attacks to it. Zell gets hit with micro missle x2 to be put into crisis, spam dolphin blow to finish 1 robot off. Squall heals zell. quez goes off. Queue up brothers on zell to take a hit, heal zell to full. queue quez. robot hits brothers killing it, captain shoots squall. quez goes of a second time wihtout getting hit, second robot dies. attack captain till dead.

So for me to win that fight the enemy didnt use ray bomb, or aura more than once. They also didnt hit the GF that was at 70 hp nor did they use curaga or land any critical hits. Like I said in the initial part of the post this fight relies way to heavily on RNG. I had an attempt where i got hit with meltown followed by ray bomb x 2 before my first action went off.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-25 13:30:50
Thanks for your input. This is one of the battles where defeating the enemies in the right order is key - otherwise you succumb in the chaos very easily. The following strat has been very reliable in my test runs and should keep the RNG factor to a minimum:

Spoiler: Beating the prison bosses • show
You have to focus your attacks on the Elite Solider and kill him off quickly to avoid any more Ray-Bombs and Auras on the GIM52As. Start the battle with Slow on the Elite Soldier by either casting Slow or having it junctioned to ST-Atk, then build up your defenses. Then hit him with Double Bio until he dies (his HP aren't very high). If you got hit by a Ray-Bomb and are under Vit0, don't waste time with curing the status (but have Protect and Shell up), just kill that soldier as soon as possible. You basically won the battle if you manage to do so, as the GIM52As alone aren't much of a threat.


As for the Meltdown and Double Ray-Bomb opener, the chances for this to happen are very low. But I'll see what I can do to avoid this further.

 
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-25 16:48:22
So I watched that part from your latest stream and noticed a few things:

- Your GF distribution was not optimal. Brothers should be paired with Quezacotl because of their junction abilities. Quezacotl, Carbuncle and Diablos on separate characters so Mag-J is available for all characters. You can have two Spr-Junctions at this point (from Shiva and Brothers).

- You could have used the 5 Mega-Potions you found in the prison for countering Ray-Bomb.

- Your approach with beating the robots first is legit too of course, but relying on GF is too slow. Quistis could have learned Aqua Breath with the Water Crystals from the Chimeras and used this against the robots for tremendous damage.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.4)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-09-25 19:43:07
Please do not misunderstand what I was trying to convey. I am enjoying the mod, alot. But I would only consider myself slightly above the average player in terms of the mechanics of FF8 in particular. I am playing with no card refine for magic or upgrading weapons that I do not have the magazine for. Essentially I am trying to beat the game with what the "average" player would consider without cheesing an easy way to power up or being forced to farm. Its a good practice when testing and providing feedback to see ALL possible methods to defeat a boss, even if it is not the optimal way to beat it as a majority of players would not consider switching to bio to double cast burst the back row enemy while going for 100% optimal gf loadout. It is a fine balance of being beatable at a suboptimal level while still being challenging with an optimized strat. And after seeing you provide multiple different strategies I understand more your logic behind the fight. I do think it could be toned down by 5-10% and still maintain that balance of challenge. Even if you leave it as is I will come back to it eventually and play through the entire mod using a different strategy.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-25 20:34:42
Nah, I'm totally fine with your feedback and take it as an opportunity to make improvements to the mod. Besides that, it is very interesting to get impressions from someone a bit further into the game already.

One of my goals for the mod was including boss battles that call for strategic approaches as well - battles where character stats and junctions are only secondary. And the prison boss battle is certainly one of them. I was thinking about this particular one for a really long time and wondered how far I can go here. Getting a Game Over on the first try should be totally normal and that's why the save point the floor below is now visible. But multiple fails isn't exactly what was planned either, so yeah - toning down the battle by 5-10% seems reasonable.

So for the next update, expect some smaller changes to this battle. I'm also thinking about buffing Siren by adding in Slow to her attack, which would be really useful for this battle. I know that getting a cast off can be difficult, but that's why there's things like Silver Mails, GF compatibility items, Protect and so on. Just use all that stuff that was next to useless in vanilla - that's what the mod has been made for too.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-27 02:32:32
v1.0.5 released

Changes to the Prison boss: Ray-Bomb and Meltdown damage is slightly reduced and GIM52As generally do less damage under Aura. I would have liked to make it so that Ray-Bomb is never used the first couple of turns, but setting it that way breaks other GIM52A encounters using current tools, so that has to do for now. You can also get an extra Mega-Potion from one on the Moombas now, if that helps.

Other changes:
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.5)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-09-27 18:59:49
Just cleared NORG. The balance definitely shifted down from the prison, nothing could 1 shot me except for an enemy with the explosion attack in the garden. the tank boss and NORG were both very fun fights and balanced to perfection for the way I fought them. So that may mean they are a bit under tuned for people who use the full power of the refining and weapon system.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.5)
Post by: iDerek759 on 2018-09-28 03:15:48
Question...can you still farm for Rosetta Stone's from the guy in the D-District Prison on the 11th floor? Or has it been changed so you can't receive it that early in-game anymore?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-28 04:01:16
Uprisen, it's good hear that the next couple of bosses felt just right to you. It's ok if they are a little easier for players who make full use of refining, weapons and so on. I am satisfied as long as they can't be rendered brokenly easy with cheap tricks, like simply one-shotting them with a Renzokuken. As for the Explosion attack from Death Claw, it was actually an oversight by me to leave it that strong. The attack itself is rarely used, but I see it's not fair to get a sudden Game Over because of this. Will be fixed soon.

Derek, the Rosetta Stones can still be won in the prison, but you can no longer manipulate the RNG to get one guaranteed as you need Enc-None for that which can't be learned at this point of the game. I would maybe just wait a bit and keep on playing, as there is now an easier way to get an early Rosetta Stone:

Spoiler: show
You can get one from the Cafeteria Lady's son in FH if all prerequisites have been met
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.5)
Post by: iDerek759 on 2018-09-28 04:13:13
Derek, the Rosetta Stones can still be won in the prison, but you can no longer manipulate the RNG to get one guaranteed as you need Enc-None for that which can't be learned at this point of the game. I would maybe just wait a bit and keep on playing, as there is now an easier way to get an early Rosetta Stone:

Oh excellent! Okay, Cause I saved just right before the Prison boss fight and I thought I lost my chance in getting one, good to know! Also, I was a bit more prepared and tried the prison boss fight before applying the latest patch, it's an easily manageable fight as long as you have the proper magic and junctions. :P

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-28 21:09:25
Someone informed me about the game softlocking when entering two rooms in Galbadia Garden on disc 2. I am sorry for anyone who lost game progress because of this.

Click here for Hotfix (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1N5lOLHQaY_pWrIN5reM6AOvu_KG7u9b2). This also reduces the power of the Explosion attack from Death Claw.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.5)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-09-29 02:14:28
Having a slight issue with the Queen of Cards questline. Once sent to Dollet she tells us the new cards she wants to win from us, but after losing the card to her she does not give a hint as to where the new card has appeared. She repeats the dialogue "With this card my father can make a new card"
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-29 02:46:41
As far as I know, the Card Queen only tells about a new card's location if you lose a specific rare card to her outside of Dollet, and doing the quest in order. If she then moves to Dollet and when being asked about her father, she will give a vague hint about where the new card is, and tells about the next card she wants. That's not optimal, but it has always been that way, so it's not a bug of the mod.

For the mod, a few alterations have been made to this quest:

Spoiler: show
Instead of the Minimog card, you need to lose the Quezacotl card to the Card Queen. This creates the Kiros card, which can then be found at Winhill Inn. Second, instead of the Sacred Card, the Card Queen now requests the Pandemona card. This will create the Irvine card, which can still be won from Flo in Fisherman's Horizon. The rest of the quest remains the same as in vanilla.


I'll try to make it so that the Card Queen gives the hints at appropriate times. Thanks for the heads-up.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-29 06:42:20
v.1.0.6 out

Quicker update here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1N5lOLHQaY_pWrIN5reM6AOvu_KG7u9b2) (replace your main and field files in lang-en).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-09-29 14:25:43
Some more boss

Seifer in galbadia garden: Mostly a good fight. His flare was hitting for about 3000 through shell and his big physical was hitting for around 2.8k through protect. Its managable as long as you get triple off and can have 1 character focused on healing, but if he double attacks any target or if you have less than 3k hp on anyone then it gets rough.

Siefer before edea. pretty good balance here, he cant really kill you if you pay attention, and draw casting haste pretty much seals the deal for you.

Edea: This one is frustrating because she can spam maelstrom and reflects herself or spams pain or Death. You cant protect vs every status she throws out so if she manages to get the 10% stop off then it becomes a game of catch up. I only beat her because after mega phoenix quistis got a Might Guard limit that gave aura and I was able to blow her away with Duel and Renzo. I dont think any of the numbers need to be changed in these fights, but maybe reduce their action speed just a tiny amount to give a bit of breathing room.

Abadon was pretty fun and relatively easy if you have the right stat-j. Just set up double/triple and spam fireaga/ifrit/alexander and maintain. Only scary part was when he used quake 4 times in a row. woulda died if i didnt have double curaga
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-09-29 14:56:26
The fight in the ester flashback just isnt fun or fair. Guard in the back insta casted death. revived ward, got hit right away, full life, boomerang sword into degenerator. shotgun crit, punch crit. The fight just isn't fair and you dont have any ability to setup if they go hard on turn 1.  I have 100 death stat-j and the death attack still got the kill. Theres also no natural save point between Abadon and the flashback so if you didnt run back you have to redo the boss and all the cut scenes again. Im positive its a fairly easy fight if they dont RNG you from the gate. But their potential to do so is really high.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-29 15:42:08
Seifer uses Flare and additional Demon Slices only when low on HP, so you have to stabilize during the first phase in order to manage this onslaught. This is best done by having Fire magic junctioned to Elemental-Defense against his Firaga, and having Protect up against his physical attacks. Even then, the second phase (which is initiated by Seifer saying "Is that all you got? I can't be beaten!") can be rough, so you better rush him down quickly.

As for Edea, I have to recheck the conditions of her using Maelstrom. I actually wanted her to use it during the first couple of turns only.

The battles in Lunatic Pandora Laboratory are mostly about killing the enemies in the right order. That's particularly important in the encounter that has the Elastoid in it. Make sure to save your game at the Laboratory entrance. Other than that, I'd highly recommend using negative status effects on the enemies there. Gesper is vulnerable to pretty much everything, and the Cyborg can be easily slowed down.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-09-29 21:08:38
On the other side of things meteor is very powerful and since you added it to the draw point outside shumi village its easy to stock up on them. Id recommend either changing that draw point to something a bit less powerful, or increasing the price to get to it by a lot.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-09-30 18:39:05
Hm, I would rather keep Meteor and increase the price. How about 20.000 Gil instead of 5.000? This seems much at first, but in this game, there's not so many things you can do with lots gil anyway. Increasing the price for this Draw Point would help a little with that issue. Good idea.

As for the missing save point between Abadon and the Lunatic Pandora Laboratory, I'm currently thinking about a solution. Placing a visible save point in a screen that normally doesn't have one, is unfortunately not an easy thing to do. Might have to look for a way to add a scripted save possibility instead.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-10-01 19:29:27
I just got past Adel and the "sorceress" chain fight. Not a fan of either of them. It feels like you werent sure how to balance these fights out so you just started giving every enemy meteor. (fujin, behemoth, adel, and 2nd phase sorc all use it in this area). Maybe fights like that would feel better with more elemental attacks and less non-elemental. Aga spells, tornado quake water etc. The other big issue in the adel fight is Rinoa, she only has 10k hp and adel draws from her every turn for 4.6k (2.3k after you shell her, which is required). I would rather see adel draw 5000 flat and increase rinoas hp to 20k. with 10k i had quistis perma triple curaga, squall was on buff duty, and zell sat at low hp and spammed duel. Removing meteor and adding AGA spells along with increasing Rinoas hp would make the fight feel better while not actually making it that much easier.

The "Sorceress" chain fight on the other hand felt like triple ultima was the only way. The second type that spawn cast double and death. even with stat-d death they wiped my team in 1 turn. Im always opposed to instadeath status moves in any game. Its an RPG, i should not be forced to have stat-def death for the entire game just to avoid getting insta killed by bosses. The final phase of that fight i believe needs to be tweaked to be more difficult. 1 triple cast meteor was all it took to beat it.

So the real issue im feeling right now is that i feel that the mod has forced me into a corner where only triple casting meteor or ultima and spamming limits is worth anything. The rest of the game I felt the freedom that I expect from an RPG, but now that im at the tail end I just dont see many ways to get through without LB cheese or triple cast.

The Ultima Weapon fight was fantastic though. It was a very tight fight where I had to do everything perfect and 1 mistake would be a game over. It was fun, fast, and unless he spammed meteor ( so many enemies use meteor) I could maintain throughout the fight.

I am concerned with Ultimecia castle though, if its similar to the last 2 bosses then I dont expect that I will enjoy it very much, but I am hoping that it was just those 2 bosses that felt... for lack of a better term... lazy. Before I continue to it though im maxing the rest of my characters levels using the stat bonus abilities and gathering the ultimate weapons (which would have made the previous bosses quite a bit easier but ultimate weapons should be reserved for the final dungeon imo).

90% of this mod has been just wonderful and its had me streaming 14-20 hours every day while playing it so im really hoping the final dungeon regains the feel of the middle of the game.

lastly where is zells card? I havent been able to find anyone with it and Im fairly sure ive played everyone.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-01 20:42:34
Quote from: UpRisen
It feels like you werent sure how to balance these fights out so you just started giving every enemy meteor. (fujin, behemoth, adel, and 2nd phase sorc all use it in this area).

The increased Meteor frequency in the late-game is nothing that was added for the mod. All the enemies you mentioned cast it in vanilla as well. I even tried to make the spell less prominent by removing it from Ruby Dragon, which now casts Tornado instead of Meteor. Looks like it was not enough - so I might remove it from some more enemies.

Fujin casts Meteor only once for the entire duration of the battle by the way. And only one of the 2nd phase Sorceresses can use it. They all have different moves, with only a few being able to cast Death. You can counter it with Reflect if you don't want to rely on Status-Defense. When going for protection from Status-Defense, make sure to junction Life, Holy or Full-life in addition to Death for 90-100% protection.

Casting Triple Meteor or Ultima and Limit Breaks should not be the only reliable way to inflict high damage in the end-game. Other spells, like Flare and Holy also do good damage (if the enemy's spirit stat isn't too high). As for standard weapon attacks, they are still worthwhile, depending on Strength and Elem-Atk junctions (Adel, for example, is weak to wind). Other than that, you might want to check out Darkside. It is weaker than in vanilla, but still very strong in the hands of Squall, who makes its damage multiplier x3.5 instead of x2 using the R1 attack.

The first couple of bosses in the castle should be easy, as it would be unfair to make everyone incredibly strong with the majority of seals still being active. Trauma and Red Giant require more of a strategic approach to win, while the rest should be doable with appropriate stats and junctions.

Spoiler: Zell card • show
You get it along with the magazine for completing the Zell love sidequest, which can be done anytime from disc 3 start until the point of no return in Lunatic Pandora, even if you didn't see all the library scenes.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.6)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-03 05:09:16
v1.0.7 released

Changes:

- Enables menu save right before the Gesper/E-Soldier/Cyborg battle in Lunatic Pandora laboratory
- Meteor Draw point at Shumi Village entrance swapped with Quake, price increased to 10.000 Gil per Draw (it will be the first easy way to get some Quakes)
- Behemoth now counters with Assault Horn instead of Meteor, has a chance of casting Meteor as final attack instead of Flare, casts Flare occasionally
- Adel casts Meteor less frequently, has her Spirit stat reduced, heals less so Rinoa can survive 3 Drains unshelled
- Torama no longer casts Meteor
- Only one Sorceress Type B can cast Death now
- Raijin (1st) has increased Blind resistance
- Edea (2nd) uses Maelstrom only once at the beginning of battle
- Chocobo Basics Forest has additional treasure
- Getting back to the Ragnarok on disc 4 is now rewarded with some items (talk to Xu)
- Card Mod: The number of Jumbo Cactuar cards required for making 1 Jet Engine is reduced from 10 to 5
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-10-05 02:39:36
 Ill be doing Ultimecias castle on Saturday so ill post final thoughts at that point. But bravo on your fast and appropriate response to my feedback. Identify the issues I had, gave me alternatives and explained your reasoning behind, then found a middle ground to meet. A lot of mod makers will either only do what the public wants, or only does what they want and there is no discussion or compromise. I'm looking forward to see how great this mod will be after all of the small things are perfected.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-06 07:28:27
Just a quick note on Gargantua: If you lose to him or escape from battle once he has awakened, and then return for another attempt, the game will crash when Gargantua is about to reappear. This glitch seems inherent with the PC/Steam version (maybe even PS1, haven't checked yet) and can be temporarily fixed by doing a hard reset. You probably won't lose to this boss when going in high leveled with a lot of stat bonuses gained (as you said) and take care of negative status effects, but better to mention it in advance, just in case. Hoping to find a fix for this soon.

About the recent changes to the mod, I'm totally fine with them. You pointed out some important things, especially Meteor being overused towards the end of disc 3. It was already annoying in vanilla due to its length, and the fact that it inflicts more damage now makes things only worse. So a reduction of Meteor usage seems fair enough - also spell variety-wise. If you have any more suggestions for improvement, don't hold back. I actually still have a lot of things in mind for this mod, and player feedback is always welcome, of course.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: UpRisen on 2018-10-06 19:59:03
Just finished. The final area was easy, but only because I had auto haste + protect on everyone and triple casted meteor.
here is my boss order and any thoughts i have on them.

Sphinx -> magic
Tripoint -> resurrection
Trauma -> limit break
   Simple fight unless he uses Mega Pulse cannon in a short span, for me he used it, then punched then used again next turn. It deals 7500ish non protectable damage, if you arent over 9200 hp then a pulse cannon + punch will kill you every time.
red giant -> item
Krysta -> GF
   Too low HP. 1 triple cast meteor with 255 magic won the fight. Its damage was nice though, 1.8k counter through protect and 6.5k with ultima no shell.
Gargantua -> Draw
   The only acceptable use of the L5 death spell Kappa. Rebirth flame saved me in this fight.
cateboplas-> save
Tiamat -> ability

In general I would recommend increasing their HP by atleast 1.5x. I triple meteor spammed and they were all over before they really began.

Ultimicia. I would recommend removing greivers elemental weaknesses. Triple cast water on selphie and squall for 8-10k per cast and rinoa in angel wing with only Meteor to use made easy work of the entire fight.

I think that the triple spell should be removed entirely and replaced with something else as it trivialized the entire ending.

Overall id give the mod an FF8/10. Just a few more tweaks here and there, but the power of triple is really the only major thing left that i had issue with.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-06 22:13:12
Alright, so I'll add the following to the to-do list:

- Reduce the impact of Haste status on ATB bar. I already feared that Auto-Haste might break the late-game to be honest.

- Reduce the Angel Wing damage multiplier to 3, or making it so that Rinoa's casts aren't limited to what she has in inventory.

- Removing Triple.. Not sure about it. Getting the spell is already more difficult than in vanilla (can't draw it from Cerberus or Odin). I guess I would prefer making it even harder to get, similarly to Aura, instead of removing it altogether.

- General adjustments to castle bosses, like giving Krysta some more HP. I think it's ok to let the final bosses have elemental weaknesses, as they have tons of HP. Auto-Haste and Meteor-spam is the bigger problem here I believe.


Trauma's Mega Pulse Cannon is rough and will likely lead to death, that's true, but that was intended and can be avoided by not killing both of the Dromas. The optimal strategy for this fight is: Killing off one Droma, outdamage Trauma's Auto-Heal until he begins draining HP from the remaining Droma (which means his HP is at 0), killing off the second Droma and then quickly give Trauma the rest before Mega Pulse Cannon gets off.

Anyway, congratulations and thank you for playing the mod until the end. Your feedback has been really helpful to make improvements for sure.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: Mcindus on 2018-10-07 01:58:49
Alright, so I'll add the following to the to-do list:

- Reduce the Haste speed multiplier from x2 to x1.5, also to be more in line with other entries in the series (like IX). I already feared that Auto-Haste might break the late-game to be honest.

- Reduce the Angel Wing damage multiplier to 3, or making it so that Rinoa's casts aren't limited to what she has in inventory.

- Removing Triple.. Not sure about it. Getting the spell is already more difficult than in vanilla (can't draw it from Cerberus or Odin). I guess I would prefer making it even harder to get, similarly to Aura, instead of removing it altogether.

- General adjustments to castle bosses, like giving Krysta some more HP. I think it's ok to let the final bosses have elemental weaknesses, as they have tons of HP. Auto-Haste and Meteor-spam is the bigger problem here I believe.


Trauma's Mega Pulse Cannon is rough and will likely lead to death, that's true, but that was intended and can be avoided by not killing both of the Dromas. The optimal strategy for this fight is: Killing off one Droma, outdamage Trauma's Auto-Heal until he begins draining HP from the remaining Droma (which means his HP is at 0), killing off the second Droma and then quickly give Trauma the rest before Mega Pulse Cannon gets off.

Anyway, congratulations and thank you for playing the mod until the end. Your feedback has been really helpful to make improvements for sure.

Is there any way to possibly nerf triple by only allowing it to be used once in battle, and then break?  This way you keep it for special healing or uber damage moments
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-07 23:31:43
I guess it would be possible, but probably not without major edits to the exe and time investment. At the moment, I'm experimenting with different SpeedMod values for Haste and Slow status, and this is already takes quite some time. Interesting idea though.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: fab_lorenzi on 2018-10-12 04:00:42
First of all, thank you Callisto for this incredible mod I've been waiting for!

I have the next problem with the Queen of Cards quest:

After lost Quetzal's card in Balamb, she moves to Dollet. If I ask about her father, she says that he has created the Kiros card and it's somewhere in Winhill.
I've played several times with the woman of the inn-hotel (since you said the card is there), however she never uses Kiros card against me. The other man in the inn doesn't play cards. I don't know what to do.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: goodmorninpluto on 2018-10-12 10:49:34
I've been itching to replay FF8 lately, and your mod was the perfect excuse to replay it again.
Just beat Gerogero and done some sidequests in Dollet.
Overall the hardest battle so far was random encounter with red galbadian soldier + 2 blue ones :)
Bosses hit hard, but then they have a lot of downtime between turns, I usually can act twice between their next action, so unless they KO someone it's pretty easy to heal back up and continue your offense.
Granaldo was a total pushover with his weakness to sleep. And Quistis even advises you to junction that to Status attack right before this fight! Easy access to Protect and Shell spells.
Gerogero and Diablos were nice fights in which things spiced up a bit, but I do have a question regarding Diablos AI
Spoiler: show
Does he not counter Demi with Stop on third party member, if the two are already Stopped, or I just got lucky? With this pattern and the lack of physical attacks he has trouble beating your party and is actually not that threatening.

Regarding Gerogero, I think more status ailments would make this fight more interesting. He berserked me once, but that's it. Blindness is not a problem because (for now, at least) magic outdamages physical attacks, and silence and slow are minor inconvenience which can be treated right away with Esuna you can draw from him. Maybe change his Esuna for something else? With him casting silence on someone it was basically him skipping turn.
I read that difficulty spike is coming soon in Centra Excavation Site, looking forward to it!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-12 19:25:52
fab_lorenzi, the woman behind the counter in Winhill inn is one of the card players who are very stingy with playing rare cards. Last time I played her, it took me 8-9 games until she finally used the Kiros card. There's probably a variable that controls a card player's willingness to play rare cards. I would change it for this player, as she also plays so damn well. Have to investigate that. For now, I can only advise to keep trying.

goodmorninpluto, thank you for your impressions. Diablos counters Demi no matter the circumstances. The only condition is that you have to cast Demi from own stock - he won't do it when using Draw Cast. He can beat your party with his physical attack and the Pain spell that does Poison damage now, which you can't protect very well against when attempting the battle right away. Maybe you just got lucky and he used Gravija most of the time. Anyway, the Diablos battle rather serves the purpose of a Limit Break showcase than a real challenge, and the statuses from Pain only help with that. I wanted him to be beatable right away on purpose, so the player can get a third HP and Mag-J soon, which is important especially for the Centra Excavation site.

As for Gerogero, Esuna in his Draw list was kept for safety reasons, i.e. if the player boarded the train in the worst situation possible (barely any spells, no Phoenix Downs left etc), as you can't do anything to improve your characters' stats or buy items once inside. Maybe I would remove it if I managed to add in a shop there. As for Gerogero's attacks, I'm doing adjustments to bosses at the moment anyway, so expect some changes to Gerogero too.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: fab_lorenzi on 2018-10-14 05:37:49
fab_lorenzi, the woman behind the counter in Winhill inn is one of the card players who are very stingy with playing rare cards. Last time I played her, it took me 8-9 games until she finally used the Kiros card. There's probably a variable that controls a card player's willingness to play rare cards. I would change it for this player, as she also plays so damn well. Have to investigate that. For now, I can only advise to keep trying.

This time it only took me three games, so thank you for your advise to keep trying. I will continue the next Queen of Card's quests (never played Triple Triad in Vanilla so this mod is the perfect excuse for me to have all cards).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.7)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-19 05:54:53
So there is indeed a variable that controls a player's willingness to use rare cards. The holders of Doomtrain, Laguna, Quezacotl, Zell (vanilla) and Quistis (classroom players) cards have the lowest values, so these and the new Kiros card holder will be upped for v1.0.8 coming soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-20 22:43:58
v1.0.8 released

Changes:
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Lunareste on 2018-10-22 03:59:13
Just updated to latest version and I am having the game stop functioning when I encounter Marlboro after Bad Breath is cast.

I never encountered one before the update so I don't know if it's related.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-22 07:59:18
Hm, I have just fought a Malboro at the Island Closest to Heaven and couldn't reproduce the issue. Where did you fight one? It could be encounter-related.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: goodmorninpluto on 2018-10-24 13:09:56
Finally had some time to continue with your mod, finished disk 1 and Laguna sequence.
Battle with Esthar cyborgs was indeed tense, it came down to last character alive and deciding whether to do Limit Break or heal. Luckily, Limit Break did enough damage.
Your Deling city modifications came just in time for me to see them. I loved them! Spent like 20,000 gil right there at the hotel. Besides many useful items there, on one occasion I also received Magical Lamp.
The shop with different uprade components is a nice addition. May I suggest adding another one like this in late game for later weapons?
Also while traveling around the city I found old woman (near the sewer gates) talking about rare cards in this world. It striked me as odd when she talks about such topics but has absolutely lame deck and somehow wins all the good cards from the old man nearby, as he tells you. May I suggest adding some sidequest to this scene? I just find it so lovely.
Battle with Brothers was awesome. Got 4 game overs on them figuring out the strategy. Double + Haste, Protect and Shell seems like a must from now on.
Seifer was Seifer. Not much can be done with 1v1 battle under turn-based system. Return Damage is good here.
Edea fight ended pretty much instantly. After Carbuncle she Dispelled everyone, casted Thudaga on Squall and ended the fight while I was still setting up everyone's defenses. Apparently this is how it works in vanilla and you can't actually lose it?
The added battle at Winhill caught me off guard and got me another game over. It's nice that you can save right before it and adjust your strategy.

Can you say in the spoiler or PM what items Selphie gives to you for joining her committee? As these changes came when I was further in the game, I hope I didn't miss something important :(
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-24 18:05:19
The Magical Lamp was added to the item pool to ensure Diablos is available in the early-game, even if the player missed talking to Cid earlier (normally, the only other option of getting more is through Chocobo World). There is currently no other use for additional Magical Lamps, besides selling it for 500 Gil each, but I'm thinking of more usages, like making it refine into something at least.

The new shop in Deling City primarly serves as an alternate and quick way of getting level 2 elemental spells and Cura, for those who haven't found these through other means yet (the end of disc 1 is the absolute latest the player should get them). Later in the game, more items will be available for this shop using Tonberry's Familiar Ability. I would love to add even more unique shops to the game, but it's probably not that easy, as there is only one dummied out shop in the game data that can be made into basically anything without touching the already existing shops.

As for the first Edea battle, yeah, it's pretty much the same as in vanilla. I didn't want to change it into a must-win battle, as the party ends up being in trouble afterwards anyway. Still, there might be updates to at least Edea's attack pattern and AI in a future update, like having her use weaker spells at the beginning, and switching to stronger ones as the battle progresses.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your impressions. I'll keep your Deling City sidequest idea in mind. Thought about that couple earlier too, and making something Triple Triad-related out of it could be really interesting.

Spoiler: show
The reward for joining the Garden Festival Committee is one Luck Up if you join during the party. If you are already a member, you get a Life Ring on top of that. So you didn't miss too much, I guess. It's ok for an early sidequest reward, but nothing more.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-10-25 06:50:20
hey

is there any chance you could make this mod much more harder like the other ff8 modder did in the past please
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: iDerek759 on 2018-10-25 08:11:52
hey

is there any chance you could make this mod much more harder like the other ff8 modder did in the past please

No offense Zara9, but that’s not really the intention of this mod. It’s a rebalance, not an entirely new difficulty mod.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-10-25 10:16:40
where can i get a harder challenge ff8 mod then

on the other ff8 modder mod, enemies and bosses had new spells and stuff that made it much more challenging for me and for everyone else

i had a challenge back then, i still like this mod alot but this mod needs enemies to have new spells and be alot more powerfull as well
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-25 12:12:46
Enemies do new attacks in this mod, or already existing ones have been altered, and a bunch of new attacks have been added as part of the latest update. To be honest, I am reluctant with giving enemies new attacks, as in many cases, the animations and camera angles end up being broken or look totally off when enemies use any attacks they normally don't, and this is something I want to avoid. Making it actually look decent needs a lot of testing, that's why new enemy attacks are only being added slowly.

You could try a low level challenge for this mod or set battle speed to max for added difficulty, or just go with Requiem if you haven't already. I don't really want to make the mod much more challenging than it already is, as this would be hardcore territory, which is not what the mod aims for, as Derek said. The focus is more on rebalancing the game than anything else.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-10-25 12:40:00
on KLITLIKA'S EPIC MOD i had a challenge back then, enemies and bosses attacked alot more faster, they had new spells and stuff and it made me think alot about what i should do about beating them

i just need a much more harder ff8 pc steam mod to play please
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Mcindus on 2018-10-25 21:25:04
on KLITLIKA'S EPIC MOD i had a challenge back then, enemies and bosses attacked alot more faster, they had new spells and stuff and it made me think alot about what i should do about beating them

i just need a much more harder ff8 pc steam mod to play please

like callisto said, use colly's hardcore mod or use the requiem pc version mod.  those are ridiculously hard.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-10-26 06:58:00
hey

i do not think colly hardcore ff8 mod would work for me at all, because that mod has not been updated and tested since 2010
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: goodmorninpluto on 2018-10-26 07:40:28
Regarding Rinoa's card.
Spoiler: show
You came up with a nice way to give Caraway time to lose Ifrit card, I liked it! However there's a bug: he doesn't actually lose it. I challenged him again right after winning Rinoa's card and he played Ifrit.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-10-26 08:00:20
I just need some ff8 pc steam challenge please, like monsters and bosses to have new spells and stuff, and take off more damage off the party members
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-10-26 08:36:14
goodmorninpluto, thanks for the report. It's fixed now.

Hotfix here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gY8YWU0oSYyPJQfjtP_ffupsgOzugUy-) (update your field files).

Zara, you've got advice in this thread as well as per PM already. There is no new difficulty mod at the moment, and I doubt there will be one anytime soon. Accept it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-10-26 09:19:37
Hey

keep up the great work on your mod

i might play it 1 of these days
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: goodmorninpluto on 2018-11-01 05:22:04
Finished Fisherman Horizon section, now onto sidequest stuff!
I enjoyed the difficulty on disk 2, the battles are challenging and engaging, not feeling too easy or too unfair. Zell with 100 str finally caught up to magic users and started doing same damage as lvl 2 spells. Though via card and item modding I do have an access to some lvl3 spells and with Double-casting magic still remains the king.
I have a question about Defend command. I remember it being very useful in Requiem mod, especially in the upcoming Raijin/Fujin fight. Hovewer I don't see it in Brothers ability list. Was it removed entirely or locked under higher level requirement?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-01 06:49:04
Defend has been moved from Brothers to Alexander to delay the availability of the Cover/Defend Combo which is indeed very useful (I also think the Defend Ability fits the nature of the Alexander GF better than that of the Brothers). It is never really as obligatory as it is in the Requiem mod though, so I wouldn't worry too much. Fujin and Raijin are still vulnerable to a few status effects (albeit highly resistant), so try some of those if you are having trouble beating them.

As for the weapon/magic damage balance, I think it would be really great to have something like Double Cut from FFVII for the late game, to balance things out a bit more. This would be probably hard to implement though, so for now, the Darkside Ability, Berserk and abusing elemental weaknesses with Elem-Atk have to do when it comes to increased physical damage.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2018-11-11 01:21:05
I like a challenge but Requiem was just unfair at points. Lr's mods have a tendency to be that way.  For example, I doubt Seifer 1 in this mod will oneshot me by immediately casting Flare at the start of the battle.

I just started the mod, about to head to Timber, but I like it. Character differentiation is the most important thing in a VII or VIII mod. I can't play the games anymore with everyone being the same, it's just too dull. Physical attacks are also viable instead of Triple-casting magic being the only solution like in Requiem.

Reporting your reports, you've also taken great pains to actually help the players which I respect greatly. Some modders forget that these games are supposed to be fun.  For example, I do not  foresee me being hopelessly screwed when I face Fujin and Raijin in Balamb like I was in Requiem. I ended up having to grind up to Level 100  to beat them because I had missed Auto-Haste. I forget how you get it, off one of the character cards I think that only appears as part of the Queen sidequest which I had not started.

Card Mod being rebalanced - and even unnecessary as of yet - is also appreciated. Of course I still have used it and it helped a lot with Diablos. Also helped was you giving me Double. Dunno how I'd beat the spider or Diablos without Double Cure for the former and then Double Aero for the latter. But of course that's all optional. Glad to have the HypnoCrown though.

I think this will be one I see through to the end. I'm very curious to see what is to come as I've liked what I've seen up to now.

More mods need to give you stuff at the start of the game, BTW. FFVII HardType gave you some choice material at the start too, like I think Counter Attack and another one or two. It's been a while.  My point is, we're all repeat players here and a mod should recognize that and help break up the early game tedium when you are Level 1 scrub with a Rusty Sword and Old Armor by giving you some nifty abilities.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2018-11-12 10:55:00
Just finished Disk 1.

Edea certainly wasn't quite the headache she was in Requiem. She thankfully only uses single targeting spells instead of, ya know, Ultima. I won my first attempt but I didn't get the steal so I reset and did it over. She never once used Dispel on me like the earlier poster said.


You are very generous with things  I must say. I had a great supply of Doubles already but giving the Iguions all those Dragon Fins is still appreciated.

Overall I  have died a couple times but nothing too major. Last super hard fight was Diablos. The Brothers were a challenge though, thankful I only got Minotaur's steal on my first attempt. I killed Sacred too fast but he still only had the stuff to make Curas so I'm not bothered by missing his steal. That Power Wrist helped Squall a lot. Really appreciate the fact physical attacks are still viable. Squall's physical attacks and Double Bio'ing Rinoa were what took Edea down while Irvine healed. Don't have many Bios right now but I figured I'd use them for a timed boss fight and all.


Overall I think this is a pretty cool mod so far. I'll try to recommend it to people elsewhere.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-13 00:47:57
Hey, Nikkolas. Glad you've been enjoying the mod so far. Some of the rewards and steals/drops are indeed quite generous, but there shouldn't be anything major that breaks the mod's difficulty comparable to vanilla levels. I've always been disappointed with most of the stuff you get in the original version - Potions, Softs or other generic items from the Dog Sidequest in Dollet, or the treasure in the Chocobo Forests were just awful. So for the mod, rewards that feel more satisfying were added.

Of course, when modding a game, you have to be careful not to make sidequest rewards too good either, or even necessary to make progress in the game. For this mod, the minimum is looking for new spells every now and then, and caring for a reasonable GF distribution for the most part. If you feel like being forced into doing anything beyond that to proceed in the game, please let me know and I'll try sorting it out, as this is not how it should be.

Currently planning an update and busy with adding some more sidequests that mainly center around getting Level 6 and 7 Boss Cards before they become available through regular Triple Triad players (which is quite a bit later than in vanilla, as said before). Some smaller changes to Triple Triad cards will likely be made too, as well as a Seed Salary rebalance to make money matter a little more than usual. Hoping to get v1.0.9 done soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-11-13 03:55:18
hey

where can i find a good ff8 hardcore mod at for the pc steam version
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Zara9 on 2018-11-13 20:48:34
hey

i suggestion to add, is there anyway to make this mod alot more harder with bosses having new spells and making them attack alot more faster and stuff
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: goodmorninpluto on 2018-11-15 04:41:19
I think you already provided a nice incentive to spend money with Odyne shop. It is the most reliable way to quickly get lvl2 spells late disk-1 and lvl3 spells late disk-2 (with Tonberry's Familiar). Monsters in my lvl range still provides only lvl2 spells, scouting draw points around the world takes time and with reduced amount of items you get via Card Mod you can't easily stock up everyone with 100 of every spell. So this shop helps a lot and is the reason I run with 0 gil most of the time :)
Btw, is the Double draw point in Library ever going to refill?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-15 05:12:55
Ok, I might scrap the SeeD salary rebalance for v1.0.9 then. Still haven't found what needs to be changed for this anyway, and keep trying without any real success can be frustrating.

The Double Draw Point in the Library never refills to keep the early-game balance in check, but now that you say it, I think it could be made available again from a later point in the game onwards. If you need a source for Double spells right now, I would recommend the Grendel encounter in the forest near Galbadia Garden (needs LV Up though, as this Grendel's natural level caps at 12 or 13 I think).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Divatox on 2018-11-15 23:09:35
awesome mod <3
quick question, in some bosses you literally mod the AI? using some program?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-16 05:41:42
You can safely change most bosses' AI using the Ifrit enemy editor custom version JWP made a while back. Just be careful when editing enemies that appear alongside others, as this can lead to the known issues (broken graphics in battles, softlocks etc). In such cases, you can still make smaller changes to an enemy's AI by opening the respective c0m.dat files with a hex editor. For example, when searching for the byte sequence  02 02 03, you are often directly at the beginning of the AI section (this is the code that makes most enemies skip their turns with a probability of 33%), which is really helpful if you just want to change some numbers using the hex editor, without fundamentally changing the AI.

So all in all, I'm just using Ifrit and hex editor where necessary. I don't know of any other program that change enemy AI. But who knows, maybe Ifrit gets another update some time in the future.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2018-11-17 02:23:43
Seifer is like my favorite character in this game and it's total BS that the final boss fight with him isn't a real fight at all if you got Odin.

Is getting Odin on Disk 4 viable in this mod so Seifer can be a real challenge and have a good climactic finish for his role in the story?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-17 04:29:43
Getting Odin before disc 4 in the mod is not more worthwhile than it is in vanilla. In fact, rather the opposite, as Triple has been removed from his Draw list (he still has the Luck-J-Scroll though). So unless you want him to assist you in battle, you can just ignore and get him later to ensure he doesn't disrupt the Seifer fight.

Now that you mention it, I think it would be a good idea to prolong the time it takes to make Gilgamesh appear, as the span was really short in the original version, making the battle rather pointless indeed. Would be also nice to have an option to temporarily disable Odin and Gilgamesh once you have them, as they often show up when you don't need them. Maybe I can come up with something for the next update, to increase the incentive to actually get these two GF. During my latest playthroughs, I got neither of them to be honest..
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2018-11-19 06:28:28
Getting Odin before disc 4 in the mod is not more worthwhile than it is in vanilla. In fact, rather the opposite, as Triple has been removed from his Draw list (he still has the Luck-J-Scroll though). So unless you want him to assist you in battle, you can just ignore and get him later to ensure he doesn't disrupt the Seifer fight.

Now that you mention it, I think it would be a good idea to prolong the time it takes to make Gilgamesh appear, as the span was really short in the original version, making the battle rather pointless indeed. Would be also nice to have an option to temporarily disable Odin and Gilgamesh once you have them, as they often show up when you don't need them. Maybe I can come up with something for the next update, to increase the incentive to actually get these two GF. During my latest playthroughs, I got neither of them to be honest..

Sounds good! Thanks.

One more quick question, you mentioned additional sidequests. I've kinda just been blazing through the game apart from some Triple Triad and minor battle grinding. Are there rewards for looking about when I get control of the Garden? I just beat NORG where I'm at.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-19 08:26:30
In Fisherman's Horizon, you can get a reward for reuniting the Cafeteria Lady's son with his mother, but the time frame for making him appear near the station is short (only while the place is in shambles after the BGH251F2 battle) and you need to have exhausted the Cafeteria Lady's dialogue in Balamb Garden during disc 1 if I remember correctly. If this prerequistite has been met, the safest way of getting the item is talking to Dobe right after the boss fight, leave the area and re-enter. The Cafeteria Lady's son should be there then (until the concert).

I would also recommend doing the Master Fisherman quest for a heavily improved reward (more items + major boost to SeeD rank), as well as collecting the items at Grease Monkey's house after straying away from the concert preparations as Irvine. In Timber, you now get something for rescuing the girl from the train at the station and the man in front of the Timber Maniacs building gives a different reward if the player cheered him up during disc 1. Winhill and Chocobo Forests are worth checking out too.

It's not that much yet, but more is coming soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Nikkolas on 2018-11-20 01:10:06
In Fisherman's Horizon, you can get a reward for reuniting the Cafeteria Lady's son with his mother, but the time frame for making him appear near the station is short (only while the place is in shambles after the BGH251F2 battle) and you need to have exhausted the Cafeteria Lady's dialogue in Balamb Garden during disc 1 if I remember correctly. If this prerequistite has been met, the safest way of getting the item is talking to Dobe right after the boss fight, leave the area and re-enter. The Cafeteria Lady's son should be there then (until the concert).

I would also recommend doing the Master Fisherman quest for a heavily improved reward (more items + major boost to SeeD rank), as well as collecting the items at Grease Monkey's house after straying away from the concert preparations as Irvine. In Timber, you now get something for rescuing the girl from the train at the station and the man in front of the Timber Maniacs building gives a different reward if the player cheered him up during disc 1. Winhill and Chocobo Forests are worth checking out too.

It's not that much yet, but more is coming soon.

That's still plenty. Very awesome, thank you.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-11-20 15:47:02
Hey there.
I'm guessing this and KLITLIKA'S MOD are incompatible, right?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-20 17:16:39
Yes, having both mods installed at the same time is not possible, as they edit the same files (battle.fs, main.fs etc - you can only have one of these in your data folder at the same time). If you wanted a combination of both, you'd have to decide which features you'd like to see in each mod that the other doesn't have, and make file edits manually.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-11-20 21:07:53
This one caught my eye.
I wonder if there is a full sidequest list.
Most original game made sidequests useless (except GFs amd weapons), so it's interesting to have a list.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-21 05:46:39
Ok, I'll provide a list that has detailed information on sidequests right after the next update, which will be at the end of the week if everything goes according to plan (some new ones will be added for it, so not much point in doing it right now).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Percival on 2018-11-21 16:05:16
This mod looks great! I have been working on my own mod, with the aim of making the game more balanced but not hardcore. It looks as though you beat me to the punch. I am exited to play this!

One question, does this mod change any of the story or dialogue? I thought I read that you fixed some typos.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-22 05:00:57
There are no fundamental story or dialogue alterations planned at the moment, but I've been thinking of some script changes that make the game more faithful to the original Japanese version (such as changing Edea's speech during the Deling City parade, fixing Samantha Soul mistranslation or adding back other things that were lost in translation). The currently corrected typos refer to simple spelling errors like "Disolving Acid", an attack used by Malboro, or spacing mistakes between words (which are quite common), so nothing too major.

As for the mod in general, I think there are still quite some kinks that need to be ironed out, but are difficult to deal with due to how the game is programmed. For example, I'm still quite disappointed with what can be done to weapon customization at most - I'd wish there was more than just bonuses to Strength, Hit and crit rate to make them stand out more. Besides that, the late-game would really benefit from a Double Cut Ability, which is likely hard to implement, and of course, the game needs more different enemies.. Nevertheless, I am quite satisfied with what I have been able to accomplish with this mod so far, but there's still room for improvement and things you could do differently compared to this mod (at least it appears to me that Klit's mod is quite different from this one, even though they share the same goals), so better don't give up on your own :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-11-23 21:41:21
Just a thought. Even as a rebalance, this mod still makes the game extremely easy. Enemies have low hp and low vit and spr.
What could help:
- double all enemies HP, increase def and spr, but also double exp and HP. Longer and more difficult battles, but worth the time.
- recomend players to never import chocobo world items. Instead give some nice items as sidequests rewards.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-23 22:29:22
How far are you in? Applying your suggestions to every single enemy would make some of them too strong, so it would be helpful if you mentioned specific enemies or battles you thought were too easy. I'll see what I can do then.

As for Chocobo World, yeah, I could advise against playing it, but most players who look for a challenge probably pass on it automatically anyway. Still, I could change the items that can be found through it to prevent abuse. Thanks for reminding.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Percival on 2018-11-24 03:54:14
There are no fundamental story or dialogue alterations planned at the moment, but I've been thinking of some script changes that make the game more faithful to the original Japanese version (such as changing Edea's speech during the Deling City parade, fixing Samantha Soul mistranslation or adding back other things that were lost in translation). The currently corrected typos refer to simple spelling errors like "Disolving Acid", an attack used by Malboro, or spacing mistakes between words (which are quite common), so nothing too major.

As for the mod in general, I think there are still quite some kinks that need to be ironed out, but are difficult to deal with due to how the game is programmed. For example, I'm still quite disappointed with what can be done to weapon customization at most - I'd wish there was more than just bonuses to Strength, Hit and crit rate to make them stand out more. Besides that, the late-game would really benefit from a Double Cut Ability, which is likely hard to implement, and of course, the game needs more different enemies.. Nevertheless, I am quite satisfied with what I have been able to accomplish with this mod so far, but there's still room for improvement and things you could do differently compared to this mod (at least it appears to me that Klit's mod is quite different from this one, even though they share the same goals), so better don't give up on your own :)

  Thanks for the encouragement! I agree about the weapon limitations. I found the most value in altering the GF's (abilities and attacks), since they are actually the primary mechanic in the game.

  I love the creativity in Klit's mod, but I was also moving in the other direction. It made more sense to me to try to make the 6 main characters a bit weaker, rather than make every enemy stronger. For example, the first thing I did was lower the stat bonuses for almost all junctioned magic.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-11-24 13:27:04
Not that far in. Just past Ifrit cave. Normal enemies are a breeze, not a single challenge in them. Bats with sleep are interesting, but not enough. Ifrit itself was more challenging (loved fira and the new all attack), but with an infinite source for cure (both stock and draw), you can just kill it in one minute the same.
After str-J, enemies are still OHKO.
Overall I like the mod, I will definitely play it all the way and report, but it still feels it need some kick (force the use of scan to see vulnerabilities cause everything else does little damage for example).
Another thing I never liked is the 0 exp from bosses. It makes the game all about grinding. Bosses are supposed to be a major push up to npcs, but FF8 only gives AP and some items. Is this changeable?

[Edit]
Perhaps I spoke too soon... Difficulty just tripled on the way to Dollet tower. Red galbadian soldier hitting for 300 and Anacondaur for 450 per squeeze is interesting, specially at those two screens when Seifer leaves.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Kraust on 2018-11-25 00:50:40
Played up to Deling City, no real issues except for feeling like the Eshtar Soliders fights at the end of Laguna Sequence #2 was a bit overtuned, I finished it with pure RNG, having Ward and Laguna fire off both of the Limit Breaks at the end.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: goodmorninpluto on 2018-11-25 06:48:15
You need to play further than that to really judge the difficulty of this mod :)
Story content is challenging but not unfair, it still requires preparation and knowledge of the game systems and enemies weakness.
Optional battles are much harder, so perhaps you will enjoy them more.
Disc 2 and onwards really shines in that regard, because you learn new useful abilities and can approach the battle in many ways.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-11-25 11:25:49
What optional battles? The GFs and weapons?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Kraust on 2018-11-25 13:21:19
You need to play further than that to really judge the difficulty of this mod :)
Story content is challenging but not unfair, it still requires preparation and knowledge of the game systems and enemies weakness.
Optional battles are much harder, so perhaps you will enjoy them more.
Disc 2 and onwards really shines in that regard, because you learn new useful abilities and can approach the battle in many ways.

I'm still playing, I just stopped for the night.

Finished Disk 1 and Seifer/Edea were insane. I could not beat Seifer unless I did Haste->Protect->Shell->Regen->Attackx4 and Edea seems to have way too much HP. Also her fight can easily be cheesed by spamming Carbuncle as the AI seems to prioritize Dispel if anyone has Reflect.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-11-26 09:52:07
Thank you for all the feedback everyone. I'll take it into consideration, which is why finalizing v1.0.9 needs a few days more than expected.

Quote from: eXistenZe
Another thing I never liked is the 0 exp from bosses. It makes the game all about grinding. Bosses are supposed to be a major push up to npcs, but FF8 only gives AP and some items. Is this changeable?

Yes, it is changeable. The reason the 0 exp from bosses is still in is to generally allow runs at characters' initial level, for those who look for a tougher challenge (such as Zara9), but I think as long as the amount of exp given is moderate, it should be fine. There's also that one achievement you can get for finishing the game on Squall's initial level, which I would like to keep doable for the mod. But then again, you could still get it by just killing off or petrifying Squall before beating a boss.. Well, I'll think about it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-11-26 21:33:05
Just got killed by Diablos. Graviga + 3 fast stabs did not allow me to even blink :(
Bad luck I guess.
Second time was a charm.
Stop is an interesting concept, but then ultra cure always removes it (intended?).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-01 22:08:25
Ultra Cure still removing negative status effects is intended as I didn't want to nerf it to oblivion (it now heals for only half of the characters' max HP instead of back to full, which is why it's no longer named Full-Cure). It's still strong that way, but I think it's necessary to increase the incentive to actually put Selphie in the team, considering her Limit Break was next to useless in the original game.

Sorry again to anyone waiting for the next update by the way. There are a few more things I'd like to include that kept me busy, such as fixing Julia not actually playing the piano in Deling City or increasing the elevator speed in Fisherman's Horizon, which I thought was always incredibly slow and annoying, especially when doing the sidequests there. Now there's only a few things left to do, such as adding optional battles in Dollet, Esthar and Lunatic Pandora Institute. Shouldn't take that much longer.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-12-02 14:35:46
Just finished the prison.

Before Deling city there's already access to Death magic on world map. Perhaps overkill for disk 1?
Another unbalanced magic is Tornado, by converting Abyss Worm cads into windmills. Makes str go way high.
Armadodo and T-Rexaur also give access to Dino Bone which gives access to Quake.

Loved the new battle on winhill. You could add a few dozen more :) it would give more new content. There are quite a few monsters you will only see once in the game (like some castle bosses). Perhaps add a low level version here and there :)

In the prision, the human guards do only one attack (stop). Is this intended? With 3 members its easy, but that screen with only zell it's a coin flip.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-02 14:56:22
The cards you mentioned should refine into Mystery Fluid (Abyss Worm) and Earth Stone (Armadodo) instead of Windmills and Dino Bones. It looks like you didn't replace menu.fs inside data/lang-en folder, so I would advise rechecking that (try deleting all 3 menu files, then paste the modded ones, if nothing helps). These two spells are definitely overkill for that point in the game, that's true. In the mod, Tornado and Quake are supposed to be available after getting control of Balamb Garden at the earliest, and from Ruby Dragon/Abadon on disc 3 at the latest. As for the Death Draw Point on the world map, I'll look into that and make it into a non-refilling Draw Point if necessary. Also into the solo Zell part inside prison.

Well, thank you for sharing impressions, highly appreciated. More battles similar to the new one in Winhill will come soon :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-12-02 15:57:40
Sorry... my mistake. It's Elvoret card that refines to windmills.
Death is not from draw point. It's from some monster I can't quite remember... Vysage? Or perhaps latter esthar cyborg? It's before Deling for sure.
Also break from iguion is extremely effective against 90% of enemies (including sub-bosses like balamb garden norg vs cid battles). Perhaps adding some resistances would be nice.
Mug also seems to appear to soon in the game (makes item collecting from enemies too easy). Perhaps moving it to alexander would balance it.
Overall, I'm loving the mod. Great work.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: goodmorninpluto on 2018-12-04 04:46:13
Is there a way to acquire Windmill without card modding?
By stealing from lvl 30+ Thrustaevis I get Shear Feathers, and stealing from Abyss Worm nets me Mystery Fluid.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-04 05:27:46
Try stealing from LV40+ Abyss Worm. Windmills become the common steal then. The new level structure for most enemies in the mod is as follows:

LV1-19 = Low level
LV20-39 = Mid level
LV40-100 = High level

@eXistenZe: So you probably got Death from the Cyborgs then. Not sure whether to change this opportunity or not, as Death isn't that effective anymore due to many enemies having higher resistance or immunity against the status effect, and its boost to HP has been reduced too. I'll recheck Break resistances for sure though.   
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-12-04 08:25:54
From some point you have break, stop and death on each status attack. Very few enemies are resistant to all.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Crossfade on 2018-12-07 07:45:19
I just installed this following the way you said to do it and there is no draw point in the library for some reason ... I also have Tonberry installed for some reason, do I need to uninstall that for this mod to work or can I use it as well ??

Edit: Ok I found it but I cant draw it atm so idk if it is double or not
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-07 19:02:16
There shouldn't be any issues using this mod and Tonberry at the same time. At least I have played this from start to finish with SeeD Reborn.

The Library Draw Point is the same as in the original game (non-refilling), it just contains Double instead of Esuna. So all it needs it having the Draw Command junctioned. Feel free to report back if the problem persists.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Crossfade on 2018-12-07 23:50:33
Yeah it was double so the game is working as intended with this mod installed ... I will definitely let you know if I find bugs through out the game man :D

Looking forward to trying this out
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-12-08 17:06:16
Finished disk 2.
Too much access to high level magic...
Card mod could be moved to after ragnarok (bahamut or eden).
Speed is way overpowered still. After spd j it's just not fun anymore. Auto haste will just make it borring.
Can you delay access to chocobo forests to after ragnarok too?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-10 08:49:45
As for spell availabilty, there's not much more room for delaying it further, as -aga spells should be available before Tornado and Quake, and Tornado and Quake in turn before Holy, Flare, Meteor and Ultima. At the moment, the availabilty for high level magic (full access) is like this:

Firaga/Blizzaga/Thundaga: Very specific Worldmap encounters after controlling Garden, Galbadia Garden enemies late disc 2, Card Mod: CC-Sidequest or card players in FH
Tornado: Draw from high level Ruby Dragon in Grandidi Forest or Laguna flashback early disc 3, Card Mod: CC-Sidequest or card players in FH (<-- I could change the Elvoret result, but it's unfortunately the only boss with a strong connection to the element wind, so Windmill is a bit difficult to assign to the right enemy. Guess I'll move it to Jumbo Cactuar, who has Tornado in his Draw list, so it would be somewhat fitting)
Quake: Draw from high level T-Rexaur (needs LV UP) or Abadon, Card Mod: disc 3 start
Holy, Flare, Meteor, Ultima: Not available before Lunar Cry for drawing, Card Mod: not available before disc 3, and the refining rate is not as efficient as in the original game

I agree with Auto-Haste being detrimental to the game's difficulty though, as enemy turns seem to be heavily suppressed if all characters have it (similar to the Limit Break priority thing). You got Auto-Haste by modding the Kiros card, right? Maybe it should no longer refine into 3 Accelerators at all. Regarding Chocobo Forests, I think the time they can be accessed is fine. The rewards you can get there can be easily changed though. Which items do you think were too powerful?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-12-10 10:56:11
I got doomtrain on disk two due to item import on boko (just for testing though).
Also accessed holy and some other nice spells. And  stats items.
Item importing is just sort of cheating, and can be abused, but I guess it's mostly a player choice to cheat or not. I don't think people play chocobo world for the fun of it. The same way people can use hyne to cheat stuff in.

Other than that, in my normal playthrough, speed seems to be the most unbalanced stat. Even before auto-haste. It's like str before and after tornado. Huge bump.

I liked the idea of diferent stats for diferent chars. You can actually see the differences in game (spd, str and mag mostly). But magic join makes the diferences be minimal. Perhaps reducing the increase value from join could benefit overall game balance and make chars more unique. Make it impossible to achive 255 for example.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Mcindus on 2018-12-10 20:25:30
Alright... here I go.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-10 22:33:25
Alright, have a good time. I hope it will be less painful than you expected at first. The first tougher battle will likely be the one against the Anacondaur in Dollet, which can kill your team easily if you go in unprepared. Though in one of the latest updates, Blind has been added as a starter spell for Seifer, which is helpful against it. I'm also thinking of adding a save opportunity right before this battle, to safe the player some time in case they lose.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: goodmorninpluto on 2018-12-11 04:48:57
Finished my playthrough of your mod. In the end you made magic a little too good :)
My final party was lvl 70 Squall, lvl 65 Zell and lvl 50 Rinoa. I kinda regret not swapping Zell midgame for another magic user, since he basically never catched up to spellcasters in terms of damage, so I relegated him to healer role. Other characters were 30-40 levels behind, so were their stats, and to me it seemed like every point in stats mattered a lot more than in vanilla. I like that you made level gain much more relevant.
Now unto balance. There is a brief period (~second half of disk 2) where attack was preferable to magic, but after acquiring Cerberus and Alexander you can get Triple (via GF summon or High Mag-RF) and can supply yourself with level 3 spells from Odyne shop. With bosses being immune to Vit0, not even 255 strength and abusing of elemental weakness could catch up to 255 magic triple casting Meteor. I know you suggested to use Berserk, but it comes with the cost of losing control over character and it's not really an issue of damage on hit (it's comparable to lvl3 spells), but rather the issue of physical attacks being single hit, whereas milticasting can break 9999 damage limit. Limit Breaks should theoretically bridge the gap, but staying on low HP is risky and Aura is very hard to stock up (until disk 4). Considering how potent Triple and Meteor are, I think adjustments for refine formulas of Dragon Fin and Star Fragment are in order.
Auto-Reflect, Counter and Return Damage are really good, especially for a point in time you get them. With these abilities it's basically auto-win against Seifer and Edea.
Regarding command abilities, they are mostly like in vanilla can be easily substituted. Kamikaze got nerfed (and for a right reason, it was broken), Recover, Revive and Treatment like in vanilla are good only until certain point. You lowered the requirements of Whispers for learning Recover, but I still don't understand why it takes so much work for getting this ability at the point in time you can learn it. Defend being available so late made me never even try bothering with it. Bosses attacks are either AoE nukes or can be negated with Protect/Shell. Also by that time you are already such a powerhouse that in just a few turns of attacking you get a victory, so maintaining defense is not that neccessary contrary to how it was during Disk 1 and 2. The hardest battle on disk 3 was against beefed up Elastoid and Esthar soldiers during Laguna's flashback. Level Up/Down don't work on enemies I want them to (like Ruby Dragons or Iron Giants). Darkside being single hit loses to magic. Is there a way for this ability to break damage limit? Perhaps that could be the solution.
Disk 4 balance is heavily in player's favor. By getting to Ragnarok and playing with CC group you can get endless supply of Aura Stones (Gilgamesh cards), Megalixirs (Bahamut) and Holy Wars (Seifer). I don't really think player should have so much convenience for so little trouble. Is there a way to make CC group play only the cards you didn't get yet, but not the ones you refined? Because since you can get the cards again and again it doesn't really matter that the number of items you get through modding is lowered. If you abuse Holy War + Triple Meteor final dungeon becomes pretty much a joke and not posing any challenge at all.
Overall I enjoyed this mod. New additions in sidequests, much more desirable level gain and great balance during disks 1 and 2. It just needs a bit of fine-tuning on disk 3 and 4, because if player keeps up with the best options the difficulty drops down significantly.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: levantine on 2018-12-12 12:00:43
Hello,
I don't know where to post so i will try here,
I have a huge problem, sometimes when i play the game freeze and i have this message (most of the time, it come when a battle starting, i have the music, but game freeze ) :
An unknow exeption has occured
I passed several days trying to resolve it but still get it ...
I tried this method https://steamcommunity.com/app/39150/discussions/0/666828126743975209/?l=french&ctp=3 but this doesn't change anything
Hope somebody can help me...
Also i'm at the end of cd1, really enjoy your mod, will post my feedback later ;p
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Sega Chief on 2018-12-12 12:48:03
Did some searching and it might be the operating system, some users say that the game crashes intermittently on Windows 10. Others said it might be due to issues running the game on multi-core systems (but don't think it's this; I've never had the base game bomb out on me), or a memory problem that can be exacerbated by other mods like texture overhauls, etc.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/39150/discussions/0/1696046342852378557/
'Now i run it as administrator, in Windows 7 compatibility mode, with only CPU 1 in affinity and with Steam Overlay disabled. Literally every solution of every problem i have read on this forum.'

Seems a bit much, but he purportedly got through game without a crash after all this so maybe it could help.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: levantine on 2018-12-12 13:34:42
I tried with w7 compatibility,(and all the other options you mentioned) now when i launch the game a message appear and say :
 failed to create useful direct 3d device
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-13 13:49:29
Is there a d3d9.dll in C:\Windows\system32 or C:\Windows\SysWOW64 on your computer? If not, check out this article too:

https://www.lifewire.com/how-to-fix-d3d9-dll-not-found-or-missing-errors-2623235

I remember that I needed to put in the file there manually some time ago to make the game work at least with Tonberry.

eXistenZe and goodmorninpluto, thank you very much for your feedback. It made me realize that there are still quite a few gaps that can potentially break the game in the later stages. Chocobo World loot will be nerfed significantly soon, and some more Card Mod results will be changed (Elvoret, Kiros and Carbuncle in particular). The CC-Card players on the Ragnarok could be made easily into not replaying used up cards, but I'm not so sure about really going for it, as it would be quite a drastic change and they are usually the main reason for actually doing this sidequest earlier. Maybe just changing some more of the delicate Card Mod results would do - not sure yet.

Allowing Darkside to Break the Damage limit could probably be done by creating a new attack type that would then be assigned to a character's weapon, which could then do more than 9999 damage universally with a standard physical attack, not just with Darkside (which is based on it). That's my current plan for making the Ultimate Weapons stand out more which is one of my main goals for the mod that have yet to be realized. Anyway, thanks again, also for playing the mod until the end :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: levantine on 2018-12-14 08:17:15
Yes there is a d3d9.dll in C:\Windows\SysWOW64
I fallow this yesterday : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=391096600
I tried the part For issues in Windows 10:
 - Download the DirectX9c June2010 End User Runtimes and Install the most recent package, do NOT use the 'normal' Web Installer.
GO HERE: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8109

I played a litle and did not get anymore my bug, i have to try much longer to see if that solved my problem, but i lack in time this week end, i'll post my feedback later on if that solved the problem

Anyway, thx for helping me, big up !
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-14 18:10:10
I've been thinking about Refine results changes for v1.0.9. Here is what's planned:

Code: [Select]
Card Previous Current

Imp 1 = 5 Magic Stones 1 = 3 Magic Stones
Elvoret 1 = 1 Windmill 1 = 1 Dynamo Stone
J. Cactuar 5 = 1 Jet Engine        1 = 1 Windmill *1
Tri-Point 1 = 1 Dynamo Stone      5 = 1 Jet Engine
C. Chocobo 1 = 100 LuvLuvG's       1 = 20 LuvLuvG's
Gilgamesh 1 = 10 Aura Stones      1 = 10 Fury Fragments *2
Carbuncle 1 = 3 Glow Curtains     1 = 20 Dragon Skins
Diablos 1 = 100 Steel Orbs      1 = 20 Steel Orbs
Odin 1 = 100 Dead Spirits    1 = 20 Dead Spirits
Phoenix  1 = 3 Phoenix Spirits   1 = 3 Phoenix Pinions
Bahamut  1 = 10 Megalixirs       1 = 3 Shaman Stones
Kiros  1 = 3 Accelerators      1 = 3 Aegis Amulets
Laguna 1 = 10 Heroes           1 = 3 Friendships
Seifer  1 = 3 Holy Wars         1 = 3 Heroes
Squall  1 = 10 Adamantines      1 = 3 Adamantines

*1 Note that J. Cactuar is a LV 7 boss card and not LV 6 (Elvoret) - that means the Windmill availabilty through Card Mod will be delayed to disc 3 (excl. Pandemona). Dynamo Stone has been moved down to the LV 6 range to match the Red Fang and North Wind availability.

*2 10 Fury Fragments are worth 2 Aura Stones or 2 Aura Spells; 2 Fury Fragments are also needed for Zells 3rd weapon, to give the transformation a bit more value.

As for the drop from 100 items down to 20 in a few cases, I think is necessary to prevent an infinite source for Demi and Death spells (especially easy 100 Demis for everyone in the early-game is quite powerful). These items also sell much better since the last update - so refining the Diablos card into 100 Steel Orbs right after getting him and then selling these would be overkill too.

If anyone would like to make suggestions, don't hesitate to share. Otherwise, I'll go with that.

Levantine, I hope you are getting your issue fixed.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-12-14 21:10:28
Jet engine from tri point?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-14 21:29:04
That would be back to the vanilla result, just with a much less insane refine rate (40 Tri-Point Cards = 1 Jet Engine in vanilla). At least I think the item fits the nature of the boss well. Do you think it's too good or too bad as a reward for modding the Tri-Point card, value-wise?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-12-15 08:28:41
Doesn't jet engine allow some nice refines early on?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-15 15:01:19
Quote from: eXistenZe
Doesn't jet engine allow some nice refines early on?

They can be turned into Rocket Engines (teaches Spd+30%) and Spd Ups, but Tri-Point cards aren't available before disc 3 as they are LV 7 cards. And even with the lowered requirements, it would still take long to actually get Rocket Engines and Spd Ups that way. Furthermore, turning them into Rocket Engines requires GF Abl Med-RF from Eden, whereas the Spd Up refinement needs Forbid Med-RF from Doomtrain, so not much can be done with the item until late disc 3 (other than just teaching a GF Spd+10% with the item itself).

By the way, the earliest availability for LV 6 and LV 7 boss cards in the mod is as follows:

LV 6: CC-Group and FH card players disc 2 (vanilla: Galbadia Garden disc 1)
LV 7: Edea and Cid disc 3 (vanilla: CC-Group and FH card players disc 2)

This was a necessary step in my attempt to balance Card Mod out without nerfing the results to the ground or just moving it to Eden, an idea I never really liked to be honest. I am firmly convinced that it's ok to leave Card Mod at Quezacotl as long as the mod results are reasonable and the availability for the better rewards is delayed.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2018-12-15 20:42:31
Sounds nice.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Scai88 on 2018-12-16 07:01:05
Hi Callisto, thank you for putting your time to such a big project, it´s fantastic. I wanted to use your mod because it sounds amazing, but i am not experienced with using mods. Is it possible to play this mod with the german FF8 Steam version?

Kind regards,
Scai
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2018-12-16 16:52:46
The mod is unfortunately only compatible with the English Steam version for now. Making it work with other languages would take a lot of time, as almost all relevant files would have to be adjusted (field.fs, main.fs etc). If you want to play it now, you should be able to change your game language by right-clicking the game in Steam, then selecting Properties -> languages, to install the English game package. Thanks for your interest and feel free to share impressions if you decide to give it a go.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Scai88 on 2018-12-16 18:19:35
Thank you for your answer. How sad. Bud i know what you mean  ;). I think i will go with Lunatic Pandora Mod, altough the difficulty mod there is only 20% harder than vanilla. For an english playthrough my english isn´t good enough. Am i right when i say that all the other hard mods for FF8 in this forum are also only for the english version?

UPDATE: @ Calisto: I´ve followed your advice and changed my version to the english version to play with the mod. First I thought that it worked because squall and quistis had some spells at the beginning. But now I recognized that the drawpoint in the libary is still esuna instead of double and also the fight versus ifrit and the random encounters weren´t more difficult than normal. So i am confused now if the mod works or not. The point is that I downloadet and installed RaW but there was not an RaW folder after extracting the torrent file whether in the extracted files nor after installation in my FF8 main folder. So I also downloadet the Roses and Wine light Version and took only the RaW folder from there and puted it in the FF8 root folder (i also tried to use the bass.dll and ddraw.dll from the RuW light version but the sound was than the same as the default sound, so I deleted it again) and placed the Ragnarok_mod.txt file in this RaW/GLOBAL/Hext folder. Now it looks like a part of the mod works (cause of the spells in the inventory) and another part don´t work. I have so much obstacles to get up and running one of the mods that I want to use... I hope I can get help here. What can I do?

UPDARE2: I got it!! I made a mistake with the RaW torrent file and now i could fix this and your mod works perfectly. I had to heal my chars against Ifrit, how wonderful :-). I really looking forward to a new FF8 experience. Never made a playtrough because of its low difficulty I lost my interest no later than disc 3 when I was ridiculously owerpowered. Its amazing that you took the time to improve the game in this way, thanks a lot for this :-)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Murasame on 2018-12-21 02:49:55
Hey there, thank you for this mod. I'm very interested in trying it out but my RaW doesn't have this global folder mentioned. Could you tell me what I need to do please?

Edit: whoops. Looks like the RaW folder needs to be accessed from FFVIII's files after installation rather than directly in the RaW folder itself. Don't mind me.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.8)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-06 12:39:02
Hello everyone, and happy new year.

It's been quite some time since the latest update, but today I finally managed to finalize a new version for this mod. During the last couple of weeks, I spent quite a lot of time on learning the game's Field script language more properly, which allowed me to do more things than initially planned, and that's part of the reason why it took way longer than expected. Sorry again to anyone who was hoping for an earlier release. And thanks again for all the feedback and ideas. A lot of it was taken into account and is now included, as you can see in the changes overview below.

As always, let me know if you find any bugs. I have double-checked everything, especially the new sidequests, but it could be that something was overlooked. But for now, enjoy :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) Balance changes

Refine results

Code: [Select]
Card Previous Current

Imp 1 = 5 Magic Stones 1 = 3 Magic Stones
Red Giant 1 = 5 Meteor Stones 1 = 3 Meteor Stones
Elvoret 1 = 1 Windmill 1 = 1 Dynamo Stone
J. Cactuar 5 = 1 Jet Engine        1 = 1 Windmill
Tri-Point 1 = 1 Dynamo Stone      5 = 1 Jet Engine
C. Chocobo 1 = 100 LuvLuvG's       1 = 20 LuvLuvG's
Gilgamesh 1 = 10 Aura Stones      1 = 10 Fury Fragments
Carbuncle 1 = 3 Glow Curtains     1 = 20 Dragon Skins
Diablos 1 = 100 Steel Orbs      1 = 20 Steel Orbs
Odin 1 = 100 Dead Spirits    1 = 20 Dead Spirits
Phoenix  1 = 3 Phoenix Spirits   1 = 3 Phoenix Pinions
Bahamut  1 = 10 Megalixirs       1 = 3 Shaman Stones
Kiros  1 = 3 Accelerators      1 = 3 Aegis Amulets
Laguna 1 = 10 Heroes           1 = 3 Friendships
Seifer  1 = 3 Holy Wars         1 = 3 Heroes
Squall  1 = 10 Adamantines      1 = 3 Adamantines


Triple Triad cards
Some cards that previously had no elemental property have been given an element or have their element changed in an attempt to achieve a more evenly distributed elemental representation for the actual Card game (in the original, there is only one Holy-elemental card, for example). The changes are as follows:

Code: [Select]
Card Previous Current

Grand Mantis -- Water
Ochu -- Poison
Death Claw Fire Wind
Torama -- Holy
Adamantoise Earth Water
Elnoyle -- Wind
Iguion -- Fire
Krysta -- Ice
Sphinxara -- Holy

Besides that, the Pupu Card's stats have been slightly improved, as its stat sum is very low compared to other Level 5 Monster cards, no matter the A value on the right side.


Chocobo World
The following items can no longer be imported from Chocobo World:

Hero, Holy War, Power Generator, Dark Matter, Ribbon, Aegis Amulet, Rosetta Stone, Moon Curtain, Steel Curtain, Accelerator, Phoenix Spirit, Gaea's Ring, Hyper Wrist, Adamantine, Royal Crown, Magic Armlet, Solomon Ring

Stat Up items and other items of similar value are still available, but the probability of finding them has been significantly reduced.


SeeD Salary rebalance

Code: [Select]
S-Rank Prev.    Current

01 500G    500G
02 1,000G     1,000G
03 1,500G     1,500G
04 2,000G     2,000G
05 3,000G     2,500G
06 4,000G     3,000G
07 5,000G     3,500G
08 6,000G     4,000G
09 7,000G     4,500G
10  8,000G     5,000G
11  9,000G     5,500G
12  10,000G    6,000G
13 11,000G    6,500G
14  12,000G    7,000G
15  12,500G    7,500G
16  13,000G    8,000G
17  13,500G    8,500G
18 14,000G    9,000G
19 14,500G    9,500G
20 15,000G    10,000G
21 15,500G    11,000G
22 16,000G    12,000G
23 16,500G    13,000G
24 17,000G    14,000G
25 17,500G    15,000G
26 18,000G    16,000G
27 18,500G    17,000G
28 19,000G    18,000G
29 19,500G    19,000G
30 20,000G    20,000G
31 30,000G    30,000G

The lowered amounts in the mid-range might seem harsh at first, but keep in mind that loot generally sells better since v1.0.8, so you can use that as a secondary source for income in addition to SeeD salary. Besides that, the Cottage/Mega-Potion money making trick still kind of works, and in case that all is still not enough, the update also adds some sidequests that rewards the player with Gil (see further below).


Spells and GF
Break now does some Earth damage as well and can be junctioned to Elem-Atk and Elem-Def. Spell damage is between Fire/Blizzard/Thunder and Aero and the maximum Earth damage/protection through Elem-Junctions is 40%. Float also grants protection against Wind in addition to Earth when junctioned to Elem-Def (max. 30% for both). The base damage of all GF up to Brothers has been lowered, but damage is still higher than in vanilla un-boosted.



2) Enemies



3) Sidequests and new content


The old couple in Deling City
The old man sitting at the bench near the sewer gates who lost all his good cards to grandma can now be helped building up his card collection again by finding a bundle of cards he lost somewhere in the city. In the end, the player will be able to choose between 3 different rewards:

- 3 Turtapod, 3 Bomb and 3 Chimera cards
- 1 Granaldo, 1 Abadon and 1 Propagator card
- 6,000 Gil

Furthermore, the couple now plays stronger cards than before, but the old man refuses to play until the quest is completed. The dialogue between the two also changes once the quest is done (after leaving and re-entering the screen once, and only when grandma is walking around).


Dollet revisited
Heading back to the Communication Tower after the SeeD mission on disc 1 now triggers a non-escapable battle against a new X-ATM092 variant that uses a different AI script and attacks (it would normally just fall down a cliff and that's it). The battle will likely be tough when attempting it at first occasion, as he starts nuking the party with strong AoE's if the battle takes too long. It should be easily doable on disc 2 or 3 though.


More items in Fisherman's Horizon
Talk to the man near the elevator when controlling Irvine after leaving the concert preparations. It triggers a short conversation that gives Irvine's character a bit more depth (it is the same as in the original - shame it is so well hidden that most players will likely miss it). After the concert is over, talk to him again with Irvine in your party, and he will apologize for what he said earlier, handing out a Triple Triad card.


Trading in Trabia Garden
There is one NPC in Trabia Garden who sells some of her belongings as her savings have been destroyed as a result of the missile attack. The player can use this opportunity to get good value for just 20,000 Gil: 2 boss cards and 3 different items. Buying or creating these items separately would be much more expensive.


Galbadia Garden
Some time on the way to Seifer and Edea, a non-escapable battle against 4 high-leveled Galbadian Soldiers will trigger: 2 G-Soldiers, 1 Elite-Soldier and 1 Paratrooper.


Centra Ruins
On the way to Odin's chamber, there will be a non-escapable battle consisting of 1 Chimera and 2 Armadodo's that can be challenging when visiting the Centra Ruins at the very first occasion.


Magical Lamps
Leftover Magical Lamps the player may have received by either staying at Galbadia Hotel or through Chocobo World can be traded in for a random Stat Up or an Elixir at Esthar Seaside Station (talk to the old man there). Can only be done after the Lunar Cry.


The dog in Esthar
Stop the dog running around the streets in Esthar to make him return to his owner nearby. If you then talk to the owner while having Pet Pals Vol.3 in your inventory, you have the option to give it to him for free for an item, or sell it to him for 15,000 Gil. If you don't have it in your inventory, he will hint at it. Can be done anytime before entering Lunatic Pandora as Zell and Edea.


Rescuing the girl at Esthar's Shopping Mall
Talking to the crying girl at the Shopping Mall will trigger a non-escapable and unique battle with 2 Behemoths in it. The reward is an item and a card. Can be done after Lunar Cry only.


Lunatic Pandora Laboratory research project
After the Lunar Cry events, Esthar digs out its old mobile weapons and tries to improve them. At Lunatic Pandora Laboratory, the player has the option to try 3 different battles that consist of stronger variants of Gespers, Cyborgs and Elastoids. The battles can be repeated multiple times for no costs, but the rewards are one-time only.



4) Other changes or improvements

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: ryfee on 2019-01-08 22:29:57
First, thank you so much Callisto for making this mod! I started playing FF8 again after ~12 years and decided to try this mod out. So far I've been having a blast.

However, I ran into some issues fighting the Brothers. The best magics I have junctioned to STR/MAG are Break/Aero, and I have some magics like Fira, Blizzara, Thundara, Esuna, Haste, Protect, Shell. However, the Brothers fight was really hard for some reason. I know I could "float" them and my whole party, but their physical damage was too high; my party wiped within a few turns especially when they started hammering with physical attack.
My Squall is lv20, Irvine and Rinoa around ~lv15 with about 1,1k~1,3k hp. I am not playing Triple Triad; I only occasionally Carded monsters in battle.

Any tips for this fight? Should I grind some more?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-09 03:10:38
You current spells look good, but if you haven't yet, get Zombie or Regen for HP. This is important for this battle, so everyone has around 1,500-2000 HP to tank some more of the Brothers' damage. Zombie can be drawn from Blood Souls near Galbadia Garden, and Regen from Vysage near the Tomb of the Unknown King on the world map (needs to be at least Level 20). Levels are ok as well, there's no more need for grinding, unless you'd want to increase the probability of facing a Level 20 Vysage.

In battle, go for defense first by casting Double and Protect on everyone (they have both spells available for Drawing). Shell is not that important, as the only magical attack in this battle is Mad Cow Special, which is strong, but predictable, as it's being used in regular intervals, but not very often. Once stabilized, cast Float on your characters against this attack and make sure to defeat Sacred (the bigger one) first, as he has less HP than Minotaur and once one of the Brothers is dead, Mad Cow Special will no longer be used so no more Floats need to be recast, which saves time. Sacred's physical attack, which has a chance to inflict Confuse is another reason to get rid of Sacred first. If you have the time to attack, use Double Aero or Bio, which should do good damage, especially when casting them with Rinoa.

All in all, killing the right enemy first is key in this battle to release some pressure as soon as possible, and going for Sacred first is the most reliable way to do so. After Sacred is gone, Minotaur will start using Mower more frequently, but this is much more manageable than having both alive as long as you have Protect up. If you keep losing to them, try setting battle speed to low. This can generally help with having more time to react to the Brothers' attacks.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-09 14:30:51
First, thank you very much for all the effort put into this mod. Really appreciated.

That said, I am planning to use this mod to replay this amazing game I played for the first time almost 20 years ago. But in addition to a renewed and more balanced gameplay, I'd like to apply some other mods to improve graphic and music as well.

I had a look at https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=391096600 and all these non-gameplay mods seem fabulous, but I wonder if there is a way to install all these mods together without messing things up.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-09 17:07:38
There shouldn't be issues with using this mod and any of the graphics or music mods at the same time. I've been using some of them by myself and never noticed any incompatibilities. Maybe even the Hard-mode that is mentioned in the list from your link above works with it, but it would make the game harder than intended, so I would advise not using the Hard-mode on top of this mod.

The most convenient way to get it all installed is getting the Lunatic Pandora Mod Pack first, and then follow the instructions for installing this mod.  Of course you can also install each mod that comes with LP separately - it would just take longer. But no matter how you decide, there shouldn't be any incompatibilities. If there are, just report it and we'll see what we can do.

Thanks for your interest and have a good time reliving Final Fantasy VIII.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: ryfee on 2019-01-10 01:56:00
Thank you so much for getting back to me, Callisto!

For some reason I never guessed that Zombie would be useful for HP... After getting Regen and Zombie the fight went so much smoother! I beat them. :)
Now just need to finish up Disc 1 and move on to Disc 2.

Thank you for the wonderful work!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-12 10:22:38
There shouldn't be issues with using this mod and any of the graphics or music mods at the same time. I've been using some of them by myself and never noticed any incompatibilities. Maybe even the Hard-mode that is mentioned in the list from your link above works with it, but it would make the game harder than intended, so I would advise not using the Hard-mode on top of this mod.

The most convenient way to get it all installed is getting the Lunatic Pandora Mod Pack first, and then follow the instructions for installing this mod.  Of course you can also install each mod that comes with LP separately - it would just take longer. But no matter how you decide, there shouldn't be any incompatibilities. If there are, just report it and we'll see what we can do.

Thanks for your interest and have a good time reliving Final Fantasy VIII.

Thanks for your answer!

I used the lunatic pandora installer and your mod. Everything looks fine so far (I've just got Ifrit) but one thing. When I use magics during the battle, they don't decrease. They do though, when I use magics from the menu (to cure for example). Any way/suggestion I can fix this?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-12 12:12:04
Look for the Magic.dll which is part of the Hard Mode (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15354.0) and remove it. It is likely stored in your FF8 parent folder.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-13 10:14:13
I happen to be in a similar position, recently reinstalling FF8 for a rerun and want to give your mod a go, it sounds right up my alley with added difficulty and balancing things out in a tasteful way. But just wanna make sure that the lunatic pandora package doesn't mess with the balance you've intended, so I probably should delete all the files relating to the hard mode that were automatically installed with the package. So to make sure - do you reckon the following files ought to be deleted in order to play your mod without other gameplay modifications messing it up: "Damage.dll, Hard.dll, HP.dll, Magic.dll and Publish.dll"?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-13 11:02:41
I happen to be in a similar position, recently reinstalling FF8 for a rerun and want to give your mod a go, it sounds right up my alley with added difficulty and balancing things out in a tasteful way. But just wanna make sure that the lunatic pandora package doesn't mess with the balance you've intended, so I probably should delete all the files relating to the hard mode that were automatically installed with the package. So to make sure - do you reckon the following files ought to be deleted in order to play your mod without other gameplay modifications messing it up: "Damage.dll, Hard.dll, HP.dll, Magic.dll and Publish.dll"?

Yeah, good point.

I didn't know that Lunatica Pandora was also adding this HardMod that substantially changes the gameplay.

Any advice from more experienced modders it's highly appreciated.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-13 11:27:06
Quote from: Ayoyo
So to make sure - do you reckon the following files ought to be deleted in order to play your mod without other gameplay modifications messing it up: "Damage.dll, Hard.dll, HP.dll, Magic.dll and Publish.dll"?
The first four would definitely interfere with this mod's intentions, so I would advise not using them on top of this mod, by moving them somewhere else, as a backup. Publish.dll just removes the Squaresoft logo on startup, but I guess it needs to be removed too as I've heard of incompatibilities with the latest version of Roses and Wine music mod.

So yeah, you're better off removing them all. They would probably work just fine alongside this mod, if you wanted to further increase the game's difficulty, but there might be unexpected bugs or glitches I'm not aware of (haven't tried these dll's myself yet). No matter how you decide, just report back in case you face any issues and enjoy :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-13 16:29:28
I'm a bit confused about a couple of things:

I'm right now in the training center (Where you meet T-Rex for first time). Party is just Squall and Quistis. I have 100 Curas (already!) from Siren ability. I noticed that if a junction these 100 Curas with VIT, my vitality goes from 7 to 37. Weirdly though, physical damage inflicted...increases! I tested with Grat enemies in the training center only, but when they whip my Quistis (LV11) when I have no magic in junction on my VIT, average damage is 35/36. If I junction 100 Curas and therefore get my VIT to 37, average damage inflicted is...45!! (Both Grat tested in these 2 scenarios were lv 9).
Any explanation? Suggestions how to fix this?

Another 2 points:
1) I play with ATB on "wait". But differently from FF7 and FF9, ATB keep going when I am on the "select target" phase e.g. it stops when I am selecting a spell, but it starts again when I have to select the target for the selected spell. I know this is not a mod issue and it's how is intended to originally work the game, but I wonder if someone released any mod to fix this annoying issue.

2) On the same point, is there any mod out there that allows to skip/reduce the GF animations? GF are quite strong with this mod, and I am relying on them heavily, but the length of the animation is really annoying.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-13 17:31:59
I have just tested this under the exact same circumstances as yours (LV11 Quistis, Cura junctioned to her Vit, facing LV9 Grat) and the results were as follows:

Average damage when Vit was 7: 34 HP
Average damage when Vit was 37: 30 HP

So in my case, higher Vit did reduce the damage inflicted by Grat's standard physical attack, even though the differences within these ranges are rather negligible - the difference was there. Did you remove the Hard.dll from the Hard Mode? I can imagine this being the reason for your findings, as this one modifies both player and enemy melee damage.

As for your other two suggestions, I would really love to implement them, especially shorter GF summons, but it's not an easy thing to do, sadly. I think it hasn't even been achieved for FFVII either, and FFVII has been modded for quite a bit longer than FFVIII. Maybe it will be possible at some time, but probably not anytime soon.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-13 18:19:59
I have just tested this under the exact same circumstances as yours (LV11 Quistis, Cura junctioned to her Vit, facing LV9 Grat) and the results were as follows:

Average damage when Vit was 7: 34 HP
Average damage when Vit was 37: 30 HP

So in my case, higher Vit did reduce the damage inflicted by Grat's standard physical attack, even though the differences within these ranges are rather negligible - the difference was there. Did you remove the Hard.dll from the Hard Mode? I can imagine this being the reason for your findings, as this one modifies both player and enemy melee damage.

As for your other two suggestions, I would really love to implement them, especially shorter GF summons, but it's not an easy thing to do, sadly. I think it hasn't even been achieved for FFVII either, and FFVII has been modded for quite a bit longer than FFVIII. Maybe it will be possible at some time, but probably not anytime soon.

Thanks for your answer!

Weird, I did remove all the dlls from the hard mode patch, so I should not have anything interfering with dmg calculation from your mod. Any further suggestion? Do you recommend to start a clean game removing hard dlls before starting?

Yeah, I can imagine shortening GF animation being a pain. I have to say though that it would be the least significant change amongst the two I mentioned in my previous message. I find incredibly annoying having to play at slower battle speed possible to mitigate the fact that the ATB is not actually frozen when choosing the enemy. Any hope for that in the future?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-13 19:11:18
Have you checked the troubleshooting section on the Lunatic Pandora mod page (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=391096600)?

If none of that helped, try replacing your current FF8_en.exe with a clean one - it could be that it was altered by the LP Pack installer to apply the Hard Mode changes. If you didn't backup a clean exe before installing all the mods, you can redownload it from Steam.

Making the ATB stop when selecting targets would probably be easier than shortening the GF summons, but right off the bat, I wouldn't know how to do that either. I'll keep that idea in mind though. It would be a convenient change for sure.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-17 02:21:20
Having an absolute blast with this mod so far. Trying really hard not to get carried away by side stuff so as to not get too powerful, would hate to spoil the difficulty. Dunno if it's been mentioned, but an option to turn exp off would be in order if possible. Overleveling often becomes a problem with these mods if you enjoy fighting, and the last thing I want to do is end up ahead of the curve, but I like to take my time too so not having to fear leveling up would be nice.

Other than that, really digging the added little stuff like Selphie giving me something nice at the prom for joining the committee, Zell just donating me his inauguration money on the train(lol) or what I presume was an additional reward for not getting caught during the train mission. If these existed in the original game, I had no recollection whatsoever so I assume it's new extra stuff for being attentive, which is nice.

One of the best things you have going on is the vast differences in natural stat growth for characters, absolutely the right choice to give them an identity and their own strengths. However it does seem that some characters take a longer while to bloom though, seeing as Rinoa just joined the party and evidently as the leading lady of the story gets to trump the other girls in every possible stat despite being 2 levels lower than them, lol. I do hope it evens out eventually, seems detrimental to the idea of unique identities and different strengths to have someone just be hands down better.

Speaking of which, I'm interested to see which direction you've taken the ladies in. Boring and homogenous in vanilla, I'm really hoping to see some differences between them here so there's actually a choice to be made as to what kind of magic user you want. Selphie always felt to me like she should be a fast but fragile glass caster, with Quistis on the other end of the spectrum sporting some strength and more sturdiness to go with that magic(I mean come on, she goes around whipping the crap out of dragons and stuff) while Rinoa would be the heavy hitter with highest magic stat but average everything else. Am I way off or how have you assigned their roles/strength?

This turned into quite the random rant but I'll have some feedback of actual substance later. Now off to play some more.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-17 14:16:59
Good point regarding the stat balance between Rinoa and the other girls. My thought behind giving Rinoa the better overall stats was her Angelo skills likely being the weakest Limit Break in this mod, and also her Sorceress bonus (somewhere it's stated that only females with a high natural affinity towards Magic are capable of becoming a Sorceress). So in her case, high stat gains should be limited to Magic and Spirit - there's no real reason to make her surpass the others in other areas as well. After all, she's not a SeeD and never had any training, contrary to the others. I'll change that soon, thanks for bringing it up, and also for your overall feedback.

As for disabling EXP, I like that idea too, but it's likely a bit more difficult to implement. Can't promise anything yet, but I'll look into it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-17 16:31:19
Glad to hear my rant could inspire some new changes. I tend to get passionate about the idea of creating unique identities and distinct roles in the gameplay for characters that also compliments their story or personality or overall disposition as it's depicted in the game. I think it not only makes the game more interesting from a strategic standpoint but also makes sense from a story&immersion standpoint exactly in the way as you, for example, explained the rationale behind why Rinoa who has the Sorceress affinity should easily have the highest magic and spirit scores. It's just awesome stuff and makes sense in the story.

I already brought up some points regarding how Quistis and Selphie might be characterized in accordance with their features&profiles, but to reiterate in gameplay terms: I strongly feel Selphie is suited towards magic&speed as primary stats and probably luck as secondary stat so the lack of defensive stats would make the player work carefully to keep her alive and make use of that speed; Quistis is the most physical of the girls so I'd like to see magic&strength as primary stats with vitality as secondary to make her kind of allude to a battle mage role of sorts, that'd be cool. Do those sound like sensible ideas to you? And of course Rinoa with magic&spirit. That would certainly make them all truly distinct, interesting, and have different uses. I'm already starting to theorycraft as to party setups, boss strategies and which one of them works best in any given scenario.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-18 09:08:08
Making Selphie have an advantage in Speed has been in my mind all the time, actually. Somehow I always forgot about it when working on updates.

Anyway, here's a smaller update (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dw0DHBkjh8wsnpmpWs14fBwltX2QnHmG) that changes character base stats even further. Replace your main files in lang-en; changes are in effect immediately, no need to start a new game (mod installer coming soon).

This also alters some stat gains from Junctions (for example, Regen's effect on Vit and Spr has been reduced) and Rinoa's Limit Break can now be triggered slightly earlier than that of the other characters.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-18 17:53:18
Wow, that was fast. Appreciated; gonna install it right away.

Trying really hard not to get too powerful and keep levels low. Still not sure if I want to try and beat the entire game without card refinement, so far there certainly hasn't been any need to. Just drawing whatever magic I come across as I progress, the mod still generously gives you major stat upgrades if you take the time to draw full stacks.

Far as bosses go, so far nothing too threatening: Elvoret went down quite easily. X-ATM couldn't handle lightning summon+double thunder combo although it took a few tries to keep quetzalcoatl alive long enough to deal major damage.  Diabolos has a nifty new spell in "pain" but blinding him still works and gave me ample time to draw full demi stacks in between heals. Gerogero didn't feel any harder than in vanilla, didn't try to phoenix down him though, I wonder if it still 1 shots him. The two cyborgs in the Laguna sequence were handily made harmless by silence+blind, allowing me to get full death stacks - a major upgrade to stats.

Old tricks still worked on Minotaur&Sacred, drawcasting double on myself lets me float+protect everyone quickly, mitigating their damage so free double stacks for all. Getting occasionally confused turned out to be the only real threat in the fight as my characters took to casting death on my own party and other cool stuff, so that was fun. Still, I managed to recover and beat the boss on first try. I can see why the story bosses are a bit on the easy side but Minotaur could stand to be a bit more complicated IMO, being an optional boss? Of course, if you for some reason don't use float (even though the game gives you a clear-as-day hint about it and even scanning straight up tells you to use float) I suppose the fight can be a bit harder, but by this point you've gotten regen from vysages on the way to the dungeon, or at least zombie from Gerogero so you have easily enough health to tank even the combo attack. Personally I didn't even bother with float towards the end, the combo attack of theirs damaged me just enough to cycle through limits before healing back up.

By this point I was about level 15 with Squall at 18 so maybe I'm already overleveled.

Trying to keep my levels to a minimum from now on to see if I run into trouble at any point. Excited to see if the difficulty amps up with Edea.

Edit: interestingly, shear trigger doesn't give me access to fated circle. First I thought it was just randomly not triggering, only rough divide, but then I checked the status screen and it doesn't show up there either so it definitely didn't unlock. I don't know if this bug existed in vanilla since I always went straight to lion heart. Or is something wrong with my game?

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-19 00:51:33
Have you checked the troubleshooting section on the Lunatic Pandora mod page (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=391096600)?

If none of that helped, try replacing your current FF8_en.exe with a clean one - it could be that it was altered by the LP Pack installer to apply the Hard Mode changes. If you didn't backup a clean exe before installing all the mods, you can redownload it from Steam.

Making the ATB stop when selecting targets would probably be easier than shortening the GF summons, but right off the bat, I wouldn't know how to do that either. I'll keep that idea in mind though. It would be a convenient change for sure.

Thanks for your answer again. Unfortunately I checked both pandora troubleshooting and tried to replace the exe with the original one, but still same issue with more physical damage when VIT is higher.

Any other suggestions or test I could try?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-19 04:34:21
@Ayoyo: If you have already got Regen, Demi, Death and Double for all characters by drawing them in battle, there is not much more to gain from Triple Triad until the Level 6 boss cards become available mid disc 2 (maybe Water, Bio and Meltdown with a lot of patience, but that's pretty much it).

Regarding difficulty, I think the aforementioned spells is what removes part of it for you, rather than your current levels. Maybe I should remove Death from the Cyborgs again, as well as Regen from Vysage - Zombie on HP is actually just fine at this point in the game; and for Vit and Spr, Protect and Shell should do. As for Double from Minotaur, it might be better to just put another limited source for Double spells somewhere, to make sure the player can use some for this battle.

My respect for drawing 100 units of each spell though. Especially getting a full stack of Demis directly from Diablos must have been tiring, considering you usually don't have Mag-J available for everyone when facing him right away. Of course, players who are willing to spend the time should be rewarded in some way, but the spells in question might be a little too good for disc 1. I'll reconsider some of the spell availability for next update, thanks for sharing :)

Oh, and not getting access to Fated Circle after upgrading to Shear Trigger is nothing to worry about. Fated Circle and Blasting Zone availability is just slighty delayed in this mod.


@kekko1285: At this point, I would consider a complete reinstallation of the game using Steam functions. Then, after Lunatic Pandora contents are installed as well, immediately following this step mentioned on the Lunatic Pandora Page:

Quote from: Lunatic Pandora Mod page
If you don't want to use the Add-On's, go to "/HL_Files/DLL_in/" and remove them from the folder, but leave "Hext_in" alone.

Your bug is very likely caused by the Hard Mode add-ons. Make sure to not start the game using FF8_Ultra_Launcher. It's looks like it's only needed for the Hard Mode add-ons and UV fix anyway, the latter being included in this mod as well.

Feel free to report back again. I hope you'll get the issue fixed.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-19 07:33:19
Haha, maybe I'm a bit obsessive when it comes to drawing new spells. Where the potential of the risk/reward mechanic (should I risk drawing spells from a tough boss and dying or play it safe) comes to full fruition in my mind, is when you're really forced to consider whether it's worth the risk and/or trouble to draw. Diablos is actually a good example of this: he's no slouch even when blinded thanks to pain so you're really on edge the whole time trying to manage your hp which he drains with gravija constantly; now try to fit in some drawing on top of it all with poor magic stats. If the player does put in the effort to accomplish that, they should definitely feel rewarded as I was; demi is strong and ahead of the curve which feels satisfying but it's not TOO strong towards the end of disc 1, so if it was made so that demi is the strongest magic&strength junction spell for disc 1, the balance there would be superb. This is a strong case for removing death as you said and probably berserk as well seeing as it's better for strength than demi (or make make it available via unconventional means like refinement etc). Or, you know, nerf the amount it increases strength, but that's technical stuff which I know nothing about. It would also make players choose whether they want to put the demis on strength or magic; can't have the best of both worlds just yet so you have to weigh your options more. A nice additional tactical/decision making element especially for the last boss fights of disc 1.

Overall it does seem logical that bosses offer the best drawable spells at this point in the game so also agreed on removing regen. Doubles do seem overkill - I rationed the initial doubles I got from Balamb garden to last me the entire disc 1 and I used them on the harder bosses. I think it introduced an entirely new resource management/economy element to the game I had yet to experience. 1 or 2 doubles per boss should suffice for players so adding another single-use draw point for disc 1 is more than generous. I had some left over from my Balamb doubles by the time I got to Minotaur even after using them on some bossfights.

Maybe this'll be the first time I get every weapon upgrade in order, then. Cool stuff.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-19 22:24:45
@kekko1285: At this point, I would consider a complete reinstallation of the game using Steam functions. Then, after Lunatic Pandora contents are installed as well, immediately following this step mentioned on the Lunatic Pandora Page:

Your bug is very likely caused by the Hard Mode add-ons. Make sure to not start the game using FF8_Ultra_Launcher. It's looks like it's only needed for the Hard Mode add-ons and UV fix anyway, the latter being included in this mod as well.

Feel free to report back again. I hope you'll get the issue fixed.

Hey there, thanks for your answer again. So, I did some testing, and I tried the following:

- Clean installation, adding only your mod and RaW (not Lunatic Pandora mod pack): Quistis with VIT 11 gets around 33 dmg, while with VIT 41 gets around 45 dmg.
- Clean installation, only Lunatic Pandora mod pack installed without any of the dlls from the Hard mod: Quistis with VIT 7 gets around 20 dmg, while with VIT 35 gets 31 dmg.
- Clean installation, no mods whatsoever: Quistis with VIT 7gets around 21 dmg, while with VIT 35 gets 18 dmg.


Help.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-20 03:23:54
Try only this mod once more, but this time without the Ragnarok_mod.txt file in RaW/GLOBAL/Hext, and post results.

Ayoyo, your ideas and reasoning behind them sound good to me. Only thing I'm not sure about is making Demi better than Berserk on Strength again. Berserk actually fits the stat better than Demi, due to what the status effect causes, whereas Demi has the stronger connection to HP and Magic stats. Maybe I'll make another spell the strongest one for disc 1 - one that is equally as effective on both Strength and Magic, to make players set priorities in regards to where to put it. Removig Double from Minotaur (maybe even from Edea) and creating another one-time Double Draw Point on disc 1 is exactly what I had in mind. Will definitely be changed for next update. I like the idea of the game having more resource management elements too.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Mcindus on 2019-01-20 20:42:56
Sorry I didn't catch this!  Removing all .dll files from /FINAL FANTASY VIII/HL_Files/DLL_in/  will ensure that the Lunatic Pandora mod does not have any conflicts with the Ragnarok Mod.  I use the UV Injector, Shunsq's buttons, and this mod flawlessly together.

If using Lunatic Pandora Mod Pack v1.0:
1. Delete the HL_Files/ folder.
2. Download THIS FILE (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RReDAU8r2LFwW8Ki3FKHkCyTktBHsH7m/view) to replace the UV Injector that comes with Lunatic Pandora
3. Place that file into RaW/GLOBAL/Hext along with the ragnarok mod and any other Hext files you have.
4. Run the game from the normal launcher.

Lunatic Pandora does not modify the game .exe and will never interfere with other mods as long as you don't use the HL_Files folder.
None of those mods will technically conflict, but you will not get the intended ragnarok experience.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-21 13:34:09
Ayoyo, your ideas and reasoning behind them sound good to me. Only thing I'm not sure about is making Demi better than Berserk on Strength again. Berserk actually fits the stat better than Demi, due to what the status effect causes, whereas Demi has the stronger connection to HP and Magic stats. Maybe I'll make another spell the strongest one for disc 1 - one that is equally as effective on both Strength and Magic, to make players set priorities in regards to where to put it. Removig Double from Minotaur (maybe even from Edea) and creating another one-time Double Draw Point on disc 1 is exactly what I had in mind. Will definitely be changed for next update. I like the idea of the game having more resource management elements too.
I try to be helpful if I can, these kinds of mods are vital to my continued interest in these great old games. Agreed on berserk fitting STR, but if you're gonna take the route of putting a new "best" spell in there for disc 1 that you have to either junction to STR or MAG, be mindful of not going overboard with the good stuff because I think Berserk and even Demi already provides plenty of STR for clearing disc 1 without difficulties so adding even better magic might call for rebalancing.

Some quick updates on my personal run: The double Iguana boss was a breeze but probably kept pretty manageable for a reason since Irvine might suck for many people at this point. Their damage is potentially in a good place though but because of their low health pool I actually missed their harder attacks the first time around; on second try I played for time a bit and they used a pretty strong attack(can't remember the name) that surprised me positively and the fight was "on" for a while. Not sure if their HP is worth buffing a bit if only to give them enough time to at least show off their stronger attack.
Seifer didn't die in 1 hit! Might be the first time ever. Even made me use protect so it was refreshing.
Edea underwhelmed me severely although I myself am probably to blame. I spent a good while preparing for it and optimizing the party since Irvine was among my lowest lvl characters at around 14. Appointing Rinoa to double heal and/or esuna was enough to keep me topped up the whole fight so no need for reflect, shell or protect shenanigans. Haste I used at the beginning, expecting a long haul but she dropped pretty quickly. Being so familiar with older Fantasies almost became my undoing because I was like "yea turn me into a zombie and heal me with poisons mwahaha" but apparently it didn't quite work like that in FF8.

Turns out that's not the only thing I'd forgotten about this game, because with Zell I immediately ventured downstairs, meeting some nasty Chimeras that proved to be a challenge for solo lvl 15 Zell. I was thrilled because I actually had to put in some effort to beat them. Still a chore to constantly switch junctions between parties in the prison.
The boss fight at the top of the prison was a complete joke because silence worked on the middle dude. So much of this fight's difficulty rests on the guy that I'd almost make him immune to silence or something?
The bosses of Selphie's mission on the other hand provided the best challenge yet in terms of fun had, I was really pleased. Not because they were hard by themselves but because of the pressure to make the time limit or replay everything including the last boss again. It provided a nice bit of pressure and tension. First, the 3 guys downstairs; immediately silenced by Siren, blinded, and left to cry helplessly on the floor while I drew from them what I wanted. Felt bad for they dudes. The captain actually lived through a 10-second pounding from Zell at the end though so that's worthy of respect.
On my first try I forgot to set up junctions, gf's and heal afterwards and had to do it all after the 10 minute time limit started running so that took me a nice minute already. On top of that I'd completely forgotten that you have to kill the 3 guys that emerge from the boss within the same time limit. I was mashing those buttons like a madman and ultimately had less than 30 seconds to spare. Had so much fun with this, haha. Of course, I just had to play it again and with some surplus time drew some stops from the boss. He started using a pretty stiff beam attack after I whittled him down too much (thanks, unwanted return damage, lol) so had to end my drawing ceremony abruptly to finish the boss. Great stuff.

I'm still way early to make substantial analysis on overall balance but so far I've been really pleased with limit breaks, for example. They seem to deal just enough damage to feel awesome but not too much either. I'd probably shave some seconds off Zell's max time to do his limit, though. It gets silly when it goes over 10 seconds.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-21 18:13:32
Mcindus, thank you clearing things up. I hope this will help kekko fixing this issue.

Ayoyo, it's good to hear that at least some of the early disc 2 bosses were able to create a certain degree of tension, after having no trouble with the remaining disc 1 bosses at all. The Iguions' HP could be a little higher indeed, no problem with that. Will likely be changed. As for Edea though, I'm not sure. Other users who have played the mod thought her HP were too high. I'm also a bit surprised you didn't even need Shell to finish her off. Do you remember which spells you had junctioned to Spr at this point? Maybe you just had too many tools available to mitigate her spell damage.

The Elite Soldier's defense against Silence is 90 out of 100, so he should be almost immune. How did you silence him? Just used the Silence Spell, or by having it junctioned to Status-Attack? My plan for this battle was that only Siren can reliably inflict the status (100% if enemy is not immune), but getting a cast off can and should be difficult if the player has never invested in increasing Siren's low HP. Guess his defense needs to get raised to 99 to achieve that, if it still worked easily through other means. Other than that, I'll see what I can do to remove some of the general Junctioning hell inside D-District Prison. At least preventing the game from removing junctions all by itself at several occasions in the early-game should be easily doable.

Regarding the time frames for Zell's Limit Break, they have already been reduced for all Crisis Levels. At the moment, they are like this:

- 4 seconds on CL 1 (down from 4,66 default)
- 6 seconds on CL 2 (down from 6,66 default)
- 8 seconds on CL 3 (down from 9,33 default)
- 10 seconds on CL 4 (down from 12 default)

For those who are already familiar with his Limit Break, the changes are probably still to mild then. Could decrease the frames further, maybe. Altering the button sequence for each move would be possible too. Haven't really thought about it yet. Would you be ok with that? Opinions from others would be appreciated too, of course.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-25 14:12:26
Phew, weekend at last. Time to get back to this.

I took the time to read through this thread to see what others have gone through, and I was indeed surprised to see where people have struggled. I thought I was already limiting myself/playing sub-optimally by restricting my acquirement of magic to only drawing from monsters I meet naturally and keeping levels low. I haven't even dabbled into refining yet, nor played triple triad nor bought anything from shops. But apparently, I've still had way less trouble than some people - I honestly have no idea whether this has to do with personal skill, familiarity with the game, certain aspects being too powerful in terms of balance or something else entirely. Remains to be seen.

As for Edea - I checked and I got dispels for spirit. And since I have 3 full stacks of them, I assume they can be drawn from a not-too-threatening enemy. Probably worth taking a look at that? Shells should easily suffice for now, especially since most of her damage output is magical. Dispels coupled with Shiva's +30%SPR which I assume anyone should have at this point puts my spirit score at over 100, making Edea's -aga spells more like a minor nuisance than a major threat. I think Astral punch was her most damaging attack, almost putting Irvine from max HP to yellow but not quite. And like mentioned, I didn't even use shell or any buffs. Taking all that into account, there's no way she's overtuned - if someone had trouble with her, they must not have utilized any of the strategies or tools that most certainly are available to everyone by this point to negate her damage.

Concerning silencing the soldier bosses, I don't see why you wouldn't always use Siren for silencing purposes, precisely because it's 100% odds. Siren is the only summon I normally use anyways; my logic behind it is that why would I need damage from summons because I already get ample damage from limit breaks and hitting elemental weaknesses with regular spells, but what I do need is reliable ways to inflict statuses. There aren't many of those and Siren is so far the only summon that does anything besides damage so it's a no-brainer to open every single boss battle with her to see if the statuses stick. This is the reason I don't think the 90% resistance matters - Siren is the only worthwhile means of doing it anyways because it never fails. And it made all those bosses laughably easy. Even if you didn't try to keep Siren alive during the summoning with protect etc., it still requires plain bad luck for her to die because GF's get so much hp with level ups, the %summon hp skills aren't required at all. I have no suggestions at this time as to what could "remedy" the situation other than having the soldiers always remedy themselves if they're silenced so you gotta keep working if you don't want them to become a threat. That would probably make it a lot more interesting.

Ah, I must've gotten crisis level 4 then. It's a good change. I wouldn't recommend altering the buttons, it still takes only a couple battles to memorize the new ones, becoming a momentary inconvenience more than anything. I have to test it further on more bosses to see if it's too good with high crisis levels. Overall I think it would be a prudent redesign of Duel to decrease the timer but buff damage so that it evens out. It's reasonable streamlining IMO because in CL 4 Dueling can go on for like a minute, which is just completely silly. I also think Duel should potentially deal more damage than Renzo on each crisis level with fast enough inputs since you want to reward skill; but make it so you have to be really fast or it deals damage comparable to or lower than Renzo+finisher. I'm down for some practical testing if you decide to try rebalancing it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-01-25 18:08:21
It seems you were very well prepared for Edea indeed. Getting 100 Dispels for everyone can take quite some time though, and you can only have up to two Spirit Junctions at the end of disc 1 - one from Shiva by default, and one from Brothers that needs to be learned first. With the rather short time frame between beating the Brothers and the Edea battle, unlocking the second Spirit Junction before Edea shouldn't be taken for granted (some players might want to go for the third Strength Junction from Brothers first). All in all, it looks like you spent some time on doing extra battles, and if the bosses become quite a bit easier then, that's totally fine. Still, you are absolutely right that the Spirit bonus from Dispel (56) is a bit over the top. I guess the overall early-game balance in regards to defensive stat gains from spells could need some more tweaking. Actually, Protect and Shell raising Vitality and Spirit by 40 each is a bit too much as well, considering the fact you can get these spells from Granaldo already (and then from Gespers a little later). 30 or 32 would do for these, but in turn, Float and Drain - which are available later on disc 1 - could be improved instead, to make it all more on curve, and more dependent on each character's base stats.

In regards to Silence, the soldiers inside Missile Base actually can use Remedy when under the status, it just doesn't happen very often - only 25% chance, so I guess this should be significantly increased (as well as their probability to heal themselves with Hi-Potion, which is even lower). As for the Prison boss battle, getting a cast off Siren was difficult during all my test runs when no GFHP+xx% has been learned before, as one of the GIM52A's often used Ray-Bomb during the first couple of turns, so I guess there was a little luck involved in your case. I think I'll leave this battle as it is, but the one in Missile base will be slightly changed, at least so that the Base Soldiers can't be made crying helplessly on the floor easily :)

Well I guess there will be another smaller stealth update soon, also with some alterations made to Zell's Duel (decreased time frame especially for the higher CL's). Thanks for all your suggestions so far, they are really helpful.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-28 15:03:32
It seems you were very well prepared for Edea indeed. Getting 100 Dispels for everyone can take quite some time though, and you can only have up to two Spirit Junctions at the end of disc 1 - one from Shiva by default, and one from Brothers that needs to be learned first. With the rather short time frame between beating the Brothers and the Edea battle, unlocking the second Spirit Junction before Edea shouldn't be taken for granted (some players might want to go for the third Strength Junction from Brothers first). All in all, it looks like you spent some time on doing extra battles, and if the bosses become quite a bit easier then, that's totally fine.
Yea I went straight for the spirit junction since I pretty much knew 1 member of the party will always be relegated to magic duty exclusively so the STR junction was easy to put on the back burner, thus I didn't need to do any additional battles aside from natural ones in the sewer to get it in time for Edea. Not to mention, I'm still attempting to keep my levels low so I didn't even finish every fight, running from troublesome encounters and turning easier ones to cards.

It could very well be that I got off a lucky Siren, I went back to retry it and sure enough Siren died this time around. Out of curiosity I left the middle guy in peace to test the waters and was excited to see the fight take a pretty nasty turn as he buffed the robots. Manually applying silence later on stabilized the situation again. This leads me to conclude that the fights are probably in a really good place except for the self-remedy percentage which could serve to be higher so players have to work more to maintain control of the battlefield. Good stuff.

More comments on my progress - I'm really starting to pray on my knees for a no encounter ability or better yet, a no-exp option at this point; it's getting increasingly difficult keeping my guys from leveling up and requires a disproportionate amount of effort. For example during the Balamb garden civil war thing there's a bunch of inescapable encounters that aren't boss fights so you get the exp as normal. First I figured I just need to kill off Squall(he's the highest lvl) to make sure he won't get the exp even if I accidentally kill the monsters but it got too tedious to manage the fights with only 2 members who are around level 17 at this point and the fights are getting incrementally harder, not to mention the minibosses had new spells so I needed everyone alive to draw. Then I figured I just needed to be really careful not to kill them and card them instead, but there were monsters that couldn't be carded either. I'm no master at this game and may be missing some way to solve this conundrum but this section especially felt exceptionally strenuous if you don't want to level up. Take into account the fact that you even get exp from freaking mugging and escaping. That racks up over time too, especially if you have to hit multiple times to get the steal so you can't really mug either if you're going for a low level run. Maybe this is just me but this feels like a glaring flaw that certainly needs to be rectified - you've already said you'd look into the turn exp off thing though so that would be the best option, because I really want to fight the encounters - it's just that I don't want to risk leveling up. I was never into the static 1k exp level intervals either in this game, feels way too small.

This is getting really long again but gotta comment on the next bosses. And is it just me or is the encounter rate on the MD level super high? Oh well, mugging trifaces got me started out on those curse spikes. This whole garden debacle and mugging has racked up some unwanted levels for me though so I have Zell 18, Quistis 19 and Squall 23 for the Oilboyle boss fight. I didn't even remember they existed so my first try was just figuring out what their weakness was and which statuses stuck. Second time around I was geared up and made short work of them, and although they have respectable damage they just don't have the HP to really become a major threat. IIRC I blinded and silenced them but they just didn't give a crap and still used strong attacks; coming after the prison guys who were neutralized totally by silence I was pleased to see this boss was way different.

I was sweating bullets during the NORG fight because the mere thought of having to go through 10+ minutes of dialogue and junctioning again coupled with the fact that I had forgotten the battle speed to max made the whole thing that much scarier. I have to say the default targeting cursor position screwed me over more than once. I even think it switches from the norg capsule to the leftmost button mid-fight which makes targeting a complete freaking nightmare, especially when you're all hasted up and battle speed at max trying to make clutch hits on the buttons to prevent hardcore magic. I botched like 3 hits in a row on a wrong target towards the very end of the fight and that became my undoing, got steamrolled by an onslaught of magic and just as I queued a Megaphoenix with Zell, the last man standing but still at max hp, Norg whipped out instant death and BAM. It was like scripted, haha. Lesson learned; max speed is too fast especially with a boss like this where the targeting cursor is unintuitive in my mind and hitting exactly the right target is vital. After sitting through the 10 minutes of dialogue again I made sure to decrease speed this time, making the fight really fun and manageable.

Onto FH.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-28 16:04:47
Sorry I didn't catch this!  Removing all .dll files from /FINAL FANTASY VIII/HL_Files/DLL_in/  will ensure that the Lunatic Pandora mod does not have any conflicts with the Ragnarok Mod.  I use the UV Injector, Shunsq's buttons, and this mod flawlessly together.

If using Lunatic Pandora Mod Pack v1.0:
1. Delete the HL_Files/ folder.
2. Download THIS FILE (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RReDAU8r2LFwW8Ki3FKHkCyTktBHsH7m/view) to replace the UV Injector that comes with Lunatic Pandora
3. Place that file into RaW/GLOBAL/Hext along with the ragnarok mod and any other Hext files you have.
4. Run the game from the normal launcher.

Lunatic Pandora does not modify the game .exe and will never interfere with other mods as long as you don't use the HL_Files folder.
None of those mods will technically conflict, but you will not get the intended ragnarok experience.

Thank you very much for your reply.

So, it appears that I was incredibly unlucky during my tests. Every time I was testing with the cura junctioned to my VIT, I was meeting an enemy of level 13. Every time I had my VIT not junctioned, I was meeting an enemy of level 9 (or 11, I don't remember). This caused me to falsely believe VIT was not working as expected. Very unlucky I'd say.

So it turns up everything was working just fine.


On a different note, I'd like to suggest a change that could improve gameplay slightly and maybe it's not too hard to make.

I think it would be very helpful to have the number of magic currently in stock for the active players next to the name of the magic we want to draw from an enemy or source. That would help understand how close we are to the 100 cap without having to go back to the magic screen to manually check (making the char probably losing a turn for this since the ATB will not wait when we browse the draw and magic menus).

So far I found the balance quite good, some minor frustration due to some enemy appear to be not dangerous but suddenly use very powerful AOE skills that basically deal 90% of my party max HP. But I also recognise my party is not well structured and I am not doing all my best to make it more efficient.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-01-29 07:51:26

So far I found the balance quite good, some minor frustration due to some enemy appear to be not dangerous but suddenly use very powerful AOE skills that basically deal 90% of my party max HP. But I also recognise my party is not well structured and I am not doing all my best to make it more efficient.
Personally I think this is a good thing to do with a mod. There's a tendency for players to become disengaged from the gameplay in vanilla versions due to staleness and predictability. Throwing a few surprises our way at least demands a modicum of attention and preparedness from us which is a good thing in my mind..
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: kekko1285 on 2019-01-29 09:46:42
Personally I think this is a good thing to do with a mod. There's a tendency for players to become disengaged from the gameplay in vanilla versions due to staleness and predictability. Throwing a few surprises our way at least demands a modicum of attention and preparedness from us which is a good thing in my mind..

Yeah, I agree. In fact every time I've got a game over it was because I wasn't paying enough care about party and setup pre-combat.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-02-08 11:39:20
FH was nice and comfy as always. In what felt more like a miniboss, the remains of BGH-whatever blew up in no time flat. After some contrived&trite buildup for the romance I couldn't resist some sidequesting and exploring. Shumi village&Winhill offered a break from the story. Onto Centra, where I made the insane decision to get Odin. In hindsight, this feels like the most insane thing I could've done. Imagine me, trying my hardest to play a low-level game, and getting Odin as soon as he was available. What the hell was I thinking? I expect to lose A LOT of hours because of this guy appearing all of a sudden and killing enemies, forcing me to reload everytime it happens. Oh God.

The fight itself was still a joke with him channeling his inner Rocky and letting me whoop his ass however I wanted in hopes of tiring me out eventually. I do wish something could be done to make this fight more interesting. At least in vanilla it's a race against time because he's the first enemy you get access to that has triples so you want to draw those for everyone AND kill him within the time limit. Well, he does have double here... Maybe if Odin was the first enemy with double in this mod, that would have the same effect! I mean we already discussed the possibility of pushing doubles out of disc1 save for some single use draw points so it might be feasible to let Odin be the earliest enemy you can draw them from. I imagine you've buffed his HP a bit so that would be a fun way to make players sweat bullets if they get greedy and want to draw the tempting doubles while killing him in time. Because right now, it's even more boring than in vanilla, especially for veterans since the puzzles are the same. So in short, my suggestion: gating doubles even further back so that players who want to clear Centra right away get the earliest possible access, should they be daring enough, that is.

Tonberry King tried to put up a fight with "it's sharp!" but keeping everyone hasted and protected let me comfortably draw curagas for all, major HP upgrade for my lvl 17-23 party. Also lvl-up will be useful to get better steals and magic from enemies. As a summon, he's still useless. Intentional?

Back to main story. Fujin&Raijin in Balamb are clearly stronger than in vanilla but don't have a lot of HP. Fujin started using an annoying debuffing attack after I killed the other but a couple double bios and limits took care of her quickly.

After numerous story segments where I didn't notice much being different from vanilla, battle of gardens ensues. Protect the hotdogs, dammit! Anyways the enemies here don't offer much so I usually run from battles, except for some mandatory ones where I'm again forced to level up since there's no running or carding the soldiers. Yay.

In Galbadia there's finally some enemies worth mugging, of course after using lvl-up on them. Shenanigans ensue as I desperately try to mug and card level 100 triheads and hexadragons. Their attacks become quite troublesome at max level. Eventually I began doubling their level only once, hoping it's enough to cross the threshold to high to give better steals.

Cerberus spammed quake and tornado A LOT, so I junctioned tornadoes to ele-def along with life to get 20% absorb wind damage, so that's nice. Then you just float everyone and voilá, he can't do much besides the acid spit thing, which is annoying because it dispels or something, but luckily he doesn't use it too often.

Seifer is probably the hardest-hitting boss on disc 2, which is pretty cool to see him finally not be a total sad joke. His limit break attack is pretty stiff actually and the first time he used it on Selphie it also critted, killing her instantly through protect AND from max HP. Damn I got hyped for this fight when I saw that, haha. Good stuff. You really want to get Cerberus off right away to buff your party fast, I can't imagine beating him without haste&protect on everyone with these levels. And that's how it should be IMO. The key to making a fool of him is reflecting him when he starts casting curaga. He dies in no time flat when denied those heals. Add insult to injury with Carbuncle so he flares himself and heals you, lol.

The final battle of disc 2 felt easier for me. Seifer didn't use his limit or flare, giving me ample time to buff myself to high heaven before Edea. Holy crap that mug from Seifer, though - I thought these had been removed from the mod. Hoping to not see many more of these. Edea didn't throw anything too surprising my way aside from the first spell which I think debuffed everyone and did major damage, however she never used it again. Intentional? Anyways just keep dispelling her reflect and she'll pretty much stop doing anything else and tries desperately to get it on herself, becoming even less of a threat. Turns out she can't handle triple cast -aga spells for too long so it'll be over quick. Also darkside from Squall holds its own in terms of damage and is worth using.

Really wanted to upgrade Squall's weapon to Punishment to see blasting zone already, been using the other 2 finishers for so long now, but apparently laser cannons were removed from high level Belhelmels. I'm not sure how to feel about this one - I killed 30-40 of them in the course of an hour and made sure to lvl-up them to at least 40 to get a high-end drop, and didn't get one. Don't know if they're refinable from cards since I've stayed away from TT mostly. It'd be nice for it to be at least possible(with effort) to get the third finisher in time for disc 2's end, though - Lion heart has been pushed so far back already since there's no way of knowing what it requires before the final weapons monthly, so you pretty much get it in time for only endgame content which is appropriate enough I guess but I at least want my Punishmeeeeent  >:(

What deserves praise is the work that's been put in balancing the different methods of dealing damage. I've found myself casting spells, summoning GF's, fishing for limit breaks, and attacking in old fashion in pretty much equal measure. Only GF's have lately fallen off since I haven't bothered with buffing their damage so can't comment on that balance/whether they are worth it compared to double/triple casting elemental spells. I suppose it's inevitable that at least the elemental ones become obsolete eventually in a world with triple -aga casting. Diablos seems to be the one who stays relevant in addition to Siren(guaranteed statuses) thanks to guaranteed 9999 on bigger enemies assuming no immunity and I've used them a bunch. Of course Cerberus will now become the new go-to summon for boss fights. But so far, nothing seems overly better than the others.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-08 17:09:37
Hey, thanks again for your detailed report. Some things you mentioned are already planned to be part of the next update. I've been a bit busy lately though, so I can work on it only occasionally. I hope I can get it done before the game's 20th anniversary, which is very soon :-)

Regarding Odin, making him the first enemy you can Draw Double from is what I have in mind too, to raise the incentive to actually defeat and get him. Also, the junction effects for Double will be increased - at the moment, they are rather low and outclassed by early-game spells easily. I could also have Odin use attacks instead of doing nothing, but the problem is that he has no real attack animations besides Zantetsuken. It would work, but would look pretty buggy at the same time, so I thought it's best to just increase his HP and Vit 0 resistance, so the time limit is the real enemy, as in the original game. Other than that, an Odin toggle on/off at the blue orb at the bottom of Odin's tower has been planned for quite some time already, but I still haven't found out all I need to achieve that. I'll look into it once more. Maybe the Hyne tool can help.

The Tonberry summon not being very useful is intended, yes. But I'm open to any ideas that would make it more unique. Shouldn't be too powerful though, as Tonberry's animation just doesn't look like it, and the Abilities he offers kind of make up for it anyway. Other than that, I'm quite relieved to hear that you make use of at least Siren, Diablos and likely Cerberus from now on as well. All the other GF up to that point actually deserve a tweak to become more relevant too. I'll think about it. Diablos learns Enc-Half at Level 32 by the way, if you are still bothered by the increased random encounter frequency here and there.

Seifer and Edea disc 2: There are four invincible items in the original game: Hero-trial, Holy War-trial, Hero and Holy War. Only the first two were removed from the mod, the other two are still in, but very rare throughout the entire game. Edea uses Maelstrom only once at the beginning of the battle after complaints from users. I guess that change was a bit drastic then. I think I'll make it part of her Reflect handling and/or let her use it multiple times again, but with lowered probability.

As for Punishment, have an eye on the Elastoid that appears during the Laguna flashback at the beginning of disc 3. You also don't need it to unlock Blasting Zone; Twin Lance should do, which becomes available after controlling Balamb Garden if you find the required upgrade materials.

kekko1285, I'm glad you figured what was going on and can now finally play the mod for real. Unfortunately, your suggestion about putting the spell stock count next to the characters' names would be difficult to implement. All I can do for now is keeping that idea in mind. Thanks regardless.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.0.9)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-11 18:31:10
Version 1.1 now out. Happy 20th anniversary :)


Changes Overview


Early game balance

Battles

Refine Ability changes

Code: [Select]
Refine Abl. Item Previous Current

Card Mod Grendel Card 2 = 1 Dragon Fin 5 = 1 Dragon Fin
Time Mag-RF Dragon Fin 1 = 20 Doubles 1 = 10 Doubles
Time Mag-RF Rocket Engine 1 = 30 Triples 1 = 100 Doubles
Time Mag-RF Samantha Soul 1 = 40 Triples         1 = 30 Triples
L Mag-RF Chef's Knife 1 = 20 Deaths       1 = 15 Deaths
L Mag-RF Dead Spirit 1 = 15 Deaths        1 = 20 Deaths
Recov Med-RF Tent 6 = 1 Mega-Potion       8 = 1 Mega-Potion
GFAbl Med-RF Whisper 50 = 1 Healing Ring 20 = 1 Healing Ring


Added status effects for GF

Code: [Select]
GF Status Base chance

Quezacotl Slow 130/255
Shiva Stop 80/255
Ifrit Vit 0 80/255
Brothers Petrifying 120/255
Leviathan Death 120/255
Pandemona Confuse        160/255
Alexander Blind      254/255

Siren is now Silence-only again (254/255) and Tonberry ignores enemy Spirit to make his summon more useful for now. I am aware of Eject being more fitting than Death for Leviathan, but if the Eject effect triggers, enemies just disappear at the end of the summon sequence instead of being washed away, which is the case when using Death, so I thought Death is the way to go here.


New Command Ability: Step Mine

Step Mine/Traveler, known from Final Fantasy VI and XII, has been implemented as a Command Ability for this update. It deals damage equal to steps taken / 1000 to all enemies and can be learned from Brothers and Tonberry. Note that the current step count can be checked from the menu if you have received the Battle Meter from Cid. In order to create space for this Ability, the Recover and Revive commands have been merged into a single Ability (now called Renew, learned from Alexander), so Step Mine can take the Recover slot. To accommodate these changes, Healing Ring now teaches Absorb instead of Recover and Leviathan now learns Move-HP Up in Recover's place. Other than that, X-Potion now uses the unique Recover animation to keep it in the game. Step Mine's damage formula might be changed later to make it more powerful. From what I've tested, it takes quite long to make the Ability inflict any meaningful damage, but for now it should at least be enough to kill Cactuars faster and more reliably than any other method.


Other changes


Things that didn't make it in due to time constraints:

Some of that will make it sooner or later. At least Odin toggle, new sidequests, retranslated speech and Junctioning mess relief at prison will likely be implemented soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-02-13 11:11:58
Tons of stuff here, and all of it good. Very neat update. I was going to wait until finishing my playthrough to give myself time to contemplate and then share an in-depth and comprehensive analysis on overarching balance and whatnot, but I might as well bring some pointers up now seeing as this major update already came out.

First and foremost I was going to bring up my view on what was the worst offender in terms of balance in the earlier discs, and it most certainly was the generous spell availability, especially via drawing. In my opinion, drawing magic from monsters should offer the default minimum that players are expected to have by whichever point in the game to progress and around which the gameplay is balanced(=enemies are balanced around the supposition that players have at least the magic that's been made available to them by encountered monsters), with refinement/other "bonus" means of collecting magic offering advantages&earlier access to spells - however as it stood, I was able to draw full stacks of strong magic from monsters way before I could've conceivably refined them from cards or items that I had, which again is the exact opposite of how I feel it should be. So I'm sure the changes here went a long way to remedy this situation.

Especially digging the restrictions on double. The only thing that's missing from the list is the reflects on disc 1 - I don't remember which enemy had them but I had full stacks for the first Edea fight. Surely that's a bit of an overkill since you get Carbuncle at that point anyways&dispels for spirit junction which is only slightly worse than reflect, and wouldn't it be logical to have players make use of the new summon instead? Seems somewhat redundant to get a reflect summon after acquiring full stacks of it. And if you want to have a fail-safe in case people miss carbuncle then a reflect draw point some time before the boss would also hint at using them against Edea.

I'd really like to try the 2nd Edea fight again now(maelstrom is awesome), but I guess it'll have to wait for another playthrough. I was really surprised to hear you say people had problems with her, I mean I've had reflects junctioned to spirit since disc 1 as mentioned so surely by this point everyone else does as well... Not to mention you got Cerberus already so triple casting is most certainly available and super strong at this point. I would've understood complaints about the earlier Seifer fight more since he hits way harder.

GF's inflicting statuses was gonna be my suggestion in the next report too to add some extra appeal to them. I like how you took theme into consideration too: Shiva freezes them, Alex's light beams blind them... Good stuff. Can't comment on whether the probabilities&damage will be high enough to warrant usage/command skill slot(this has actually been the factor that has limited my use of GF's the most, there are so many commands that I just need more than summons who bring mostly nothing but sub-par damage to the table) or if players would rather opt simply for casting the statuses and elemental spells individually - certainly requires testing to see where the balance lies. As it stands, pretty sure they will inevitably fall off towards the very end before you manage to unlock the damage limit somehow - multicasting/multihit will always be preferable to a single hit that invariably deals 9999 at best.

I always wondered what the hell a lightweight was. As in "lightweight baby" à la Ronnie Coleman? Good idea renaming that. Also didn't even know micro missiles could break damage limit. Surely it couldn't in vanilla?

As for upcoming changes, I don't want to put pressure on you, but I sure hope to God you manage to implement these changes in the near future(I might just have to postpone my next playthrough until they're in there), because holy crap are they needed. Many a boss fight I've struggled with the targeting cursor because time indeed doesn't stop and you want to give commands as fast as possible, often with disastrous results. Odin's insistence to show off whenever he feels like it has denied me steals, given me unwanted exp and all sorts of other things. I've racked untold hours of extra gameplay because of exp management issues. Yes, it's my fault for being obsessive about it, but man, it shouldn't be this difficult. All these problems would be solved with the changes you listed, so I'll say a prayer for your progress nightly. 

You asked for ideas for Tonberry summon - I was going to suggest instant death since in many other FF's they just outright murder your ass which I think is an awesome trait for the Tonberries, but it seems death was hogged by Leviathan... Maybe they could be reassigned if you're feeling the idea, for example give Leviathan sleep instead. Don't ask how that works, though - the sounds of the ocean calm them to sleep?  :D

And finally I have a major QoL improvement request- an additional save possibility in between cutscenes/story scenes and bosses. Most mods tend to do this for understandable reasons and especially the first Edea fight and Norg fight come to mind that force the players to waste a whole lot of time going through scenes again should they fail or reattempt the boss.

edit: forgot to reply to the punishment thing. I did indeed forget about twin lance altogether but understandably so since you get August issue before July for some reason, although it doesn't change the fact that you really can't get either by the end of disc 2's end, which I would've liked. As it stands, it does make for a long gap between getting the second and third finishers. And considering Lion Heart becomes available soon-ish after the story railroad sections of disc 3, I suspect the gap between third and fourth finishers on the other hand will be quite short, so maybe there's a point to be made there about more even distribution. This isn't a big deal though and I don't really have more arguments to make for my case.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1)
Post by: SefiCompacto on 2019-02-13 18:17:14
Heya, started this for the 20th anniversary and really liking it so far, I just have one question

Is there any sort of document that lists all the new sidequests, and any kind of information that i would want to check? Mainly to make sure I don't miss anything/check all the new content. Just some guidelines like "make sure you visit this town before doing X main story trigger" or something like that would help

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-14 04:49:07
Quote from: Ayoyo
Tons of stuff here, and all of it good. Very neat update. I was going to wait until finishing my playthrough to give myself time to contemplate and then share an in-depth and comprehensive analysis on overarching balance and whatnot, but I might as well bring some pointers up now seeing as this major update already came out.

Thanks again for the feedback, it's been a great help. I have re-checked the possibilities of getting Reflect on disc 1, but didn't find any. It can be drawn from high-leveled Blobras and Adamantoises, but I think they can't reach high levels naturally where you can encounter them on disc 1, and knowing that you try to keep your levels low, it can't be from them anyway. The earliest you can draw Reflect should be from Biggs at D-District prison, but this is admittedly still a bit too early for that spell, considering you have just received Carbuncle a short while back, which goes against the incentive to summon Carbuncle, so I guess Reflect should be pushed back a little further as well.

As for a possible status for the Tonberry GF, I also thought about Death (254/255), as it would somewhat fit the Chef's Knife, which can be refined into the Death spell after all. It would actually be a good trade-off for Tonberry being only single-target with rather low base damage, and Death resistance could be easily re-adjusted for some enemies that are not meant to be defeated easily. I think Leviathan can actually just be left with Death to be honest - even with his much lower status infliction rate, he wouldn't be completely overshadowed by Tonberry, since his attack hits all enemies for more elemental damage that can hit weaknesses.

Adding in some more save opportunities sounds good to me and is not a hard thing to do, so I guess there will be a smaller update within the next couple days (I accidentally left Double in Edea's Draw list anyway), also swapping the July and August weapon magazines (Twin Lance requires Orihalcon and Red Fang I believe; the magazines are not necessary to upgrade the weapons at Junk Shops, but they definitely help since the required materials are often different in this mod).

SefiCompacto, no problem, here's a list that covers the extra things you can do in this mod. It's mostly smaller things, nothing too big yet. The first bigger sidequest will likely be the one related to revisiting Fire Caverns I mentioned earlier, coming soon :)

Spoiler: show
SeeD Party
Before heading to Fire Cavern, make sure to visit Balamb Garden's Quad. Exhaust Selphie's dialogue until she asks about joining the Garden Festival committee. If you agree, you will receive two items from her during the SeeD party later. If you skip this step, you still have the chance to join the committee during the party, but then you will only receive one item instead of two.

The Cafeteria Lady and her lost son
Listen to the Cafteria Lady's full dialogue at Balamb Garden's Cafeteria before heading to Timber on disc 1. Later on disc 2, this will make her son appear near the station in Fisherman's Horizon after the boss battle against BGH251F2. Talk to Mayor Dobe when he is sitting on the floor, then exit the screen and re-enter. The Cafeteria Lady's son should have appeared to the left now. Talk to him before the FH concert starts (the last chance is when controlling Irvine) and pick the correct answer while Squall wonders who he is to receive an item.

Helping the guards in Timber
When having the chance to fully explore Timber for the first time, make sure to stop by the Town's Gate near the inn. As in the original game, this triggers a discussion between Galbadian Soldiers and Timber Soldiers, but this time, intervening and battling the G-Soldiers will be rewarded.

Dollet Communication Tower revisited
Heading back to the Communication Tower after the SeeD mission on disc 1 triggers a non-escapable battle against a X-ATM092 variant that uses a different AI script and attacks (it would normally just fall down a cliff and that's it). The battle will likely be tough when attempting it at first occasion, as he starts nuking the party with strong AoE's if the battle takes too long. It should be easily doable on disc 2 or 3 though.

Galbadia Hotel
After each stay at Galbadia Hotel in Deling City (at an increased price), the player receives one out of eight items randomly with equal probability. One of the items is the Magical Lamp, in case the player missed the first opportunity to get one by talking to Cid before heading to Timber on disc 1. Additional Magical Lamps can also be traded in for a random Stat Up or an Elixir at FH Seaside Station much later in the game (after the Lunar Cry event).

The old couple in Deling City
Talk to the old man sitting at the bench near the sewer gates. He will complain about losing all his good cards to the old woman nearby and about losing a card pack somewhere in the city. If you manage to find it, you will have the option to pick up the cards for yourself or keep the bundle to give it back to its owner (I would recommend the latter, as this unlocks the old man as a card player as well). This can be done anytime before the point of no return at the end of disc 3. The possible rewards for this quest are as follows:

- 9 monster cards if you take the bundle's contents for yourself
- 3 boss cards or 6,000 Gil if you decide to give it back to the old man

More items in Fisherman's Horizon
Talk to the man near the elevator when controlling Irvine after leaving the concert preparations. After the concert is over, talk to him again with Irvine in your party, and he will apologize for what he said earlier, handing out a Triple Triad card.

Rescuing the girl in Timber
On disc 2 or 3, return to the Timber station and rescue the girl that is cowering on the floor from the arriving train. As in the original game, you will end up at Timber Hotel, but this time, your SeeD Rank increases and you will receive an item.

Trading in Trabia Garden
There is one NPC in Trabia Garden who sells some of her belongings as her savings have been destroyed as a result of the missile attack. The player can use this opportunity to get good value for just 20,000 Gil: 2 boss cards and 3 different items. Buying or creating these items separately would be much more expensive.

The dog in Esthar
Stop the dog running around the streets in Esthar to make him return to his owner nearby. If you then talk to the owner while having Pet Pals Vol.3 in your inventory, you have the option to give it to him for free for an item, or sell it to him for 15,000 Gil. If you don't have it in your inventory, he will hint at it. Can be done anytime before entering Lunatic Pandora as Zell and Edea.

Rescuing the girl at Esthar's Shopping Mall
Talking to the crying girl at the Shopping Mall will trigger a non-escapable and unique battle with 2 Behemoths in it. The reward is an item and a card. Can be done after Lunar Cry only.

Lunatic Pandora Laboratory research project
After the Lunar Cry events, Esthar digs out its old mobile weapons and tries to improve them. At Lunatic Pandora Laboratory, the player has the option to try 3 different battles that consist of stronger variants of Gespers, Cyborgs and Elastoids. The battles can be repeated multiple times for no costs, but the rewards are one-time only.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-16 21:39:21
Version 1.1a is up.

- Status effects for GF have been changed. After some more testing it became evident that some of the status effects as they were in 1.1 won't really trigger on anything stronger than a Geezard or a Bite Bug. As for Quezacotl and Shiva and their identical probabilities, I'm aware of Stop being the "better" status, but the enemy resistances against the Stop status are generally higher than those against Slow, so it evens out.

Code: [Select]
GF Status Base chance

Quezacotl Slow 150/255
Shiva Stop 150/255
Ifrit Vit 0 150/255
Brothers Petrifying 160/255
Leviathan Death 180/255
Pandemona Confuse        254/255
Tonberry Death 254/255
Alexander Blind      254/255

- Save possibilities have been added right before the battles against Seifer (1st) and Norg. Be careful when using these saves though - when loading, you will be basically thrown directly into battle (well, almost). You have to beat these bosses with what you currently have and there is no way to do any random battles to acquire new spells to increase your stats etc. However, there's always the option to open up the menu before attempting the battles.

- A flaw in Edea's AI (1st) that can lock her into casting Zombie over and over has been corrected.

- The locations for the July and August Weapons Monthly magazines have been swapped as it makes more sense curve-wise.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-02-18 18:03:13
About time I gave my next report. Disc 3 being quite story-heavy there's not as much new stuff to comment on but I'll try to hit a few highlights that I can remember.

Spoiler: show
From what I remember, the ruby dragon in the Laguna flashback didn't know any new tricks, just a tougher version of its vanilla counterpart. I don't recall what new spells it had but I drew full stacks whilst it slept. Relaxed fight. Blizzaga spam and Diablos dealing 9999 for good measure finished it off rather quickly after the drawing the spells. 

Somehow Edea becoming a playable party member had completely slipped my mind, but what an auspicious turn of events; I can use her to fight enemies to my heart's content and not worry about experience at all. Many a Vysage saw their end on that day as I committed a cathartic genocide on them on my journey through salt lake. Abadon hit really really hard but that's the only thing he's got going for him; naturally, I wanted to use Edea for this boss and boosting her magic made her completely annihilate Abadon with triple curagas. A single curaga dealt over 7k damage so that's a whopping ~22k damage per turn. Hot damn. He had no chance. I think a bit of tinkering to make his stances matter more, for example, would make for a more meaningful fight. Right now I didn't even get to see what his stance actually did, seeing as standing up didn't affect his holy resistance at all. So I just spammed curaga for the win. If players had to actually change their strategy completely according to his stances, that'd be more interesting.

Argh, more Laguna sequences. And it doesn't even give the option to exchange junctions from Edea to Ward or Kiros, she's not even on the list when it prompts the exchange. I have no idea what happens to her spell inventory and junctions at this point and I didn't care to find out - I loaded from a previous save and took everything off from her before entering Esthar.

Anyways, you can imagine my utter joy as more un-cardable and inescapable enemies are forced on me during the flashback, garnering more levels. And there's like 4 of these fights. For Heaven's sake. I tried to kill 2 party members before finishing the enemies off but there's absolutely no way around it, someone just has to take the experience. Anyhow, the first big fight was fun and demanded a bit of preparation as their degenator+death spam took care of my party the first time around, which I thought was awesome. Stop on Gesper, blind&silence on the cyborg and death immunities on everyone lets me control the fight without difficulties. The rest followed the same pattern.

A big hunk of story driven stuff ensues. I don't remember if anything special occurred, probably not. Fighting the Propagators is always fun and they've been made a bit threatening here, you really need to tailor your junctions for each of them. But once you know what to put in your elem-def and that you can silence them pretty easily(too easily IMO, especially given how harmless they become), it's easy to farm them for the occasional ultima/aura/flare stone. Soon enough the "failsafe" of the game kicks in and they disappear, leaving me with only about a dozen powerful stones and a very sappy love song.

At long last, my favorite part of the game; free exploration with Ragnarok. I couldn't wait to fight some bosses so I go to measure myself against Cactuar, who spanks my arse with Ker Plunk right off the bat. 2 ultimate weapons later I return and cast protect on everyone so that his physicals are just strong enough to put people in critical HP, allowing me to Renzokuken him to oblivion. Ultimately, he's a bit underwhelming - a little buff to his speed ought to be enough to make players struggle with maintaining comfortable limit break spam a bit more, or at least an immunity to slow(I think it worked on him?).

I've managed to get holy&flare stacks for everyone+1 stack of Meteor before I headed out to Deep sea research center, hoping it would be enough. The encounters on the way to Bahamut are pure torture as I fear that Odin might come around and indeed he did, once again leveling up my party. I was super psyched for Bahamut fight - I couldn't remember at all what his deal was so junctioning was hard as I tried to divine what kind of attacks he was going to use. I was scared shitless for Mega Flare and had shell up on everyone at all times regardless of how scanning him it said Mega Flare ignores all defenses. When he finally used it, it barely dealt half my HP in damage, making me laugh. Is it supposed to be this weak? Overall this fight was extremely simple and straightforward - my "generic" boss junction setup proved victorious on the first try once again as I absorbed his tornadoes. Got my first Lion Heart proc against him and it finished him off, leaving me a bit disappointed. I think there's room for a stronger gimmick/mechanic with a boss as awesome as Bahamut. Making Mega Flare stronger and maybe even adding a countdown to it harks back to earlier FF games where a countdown preceded Mega Flare and it pretty much wrecks you if you aren't fully healed&protected, but it's not unfair since it's clearly telegraphed. Something like that would be super awesome.

Further down the hole I decided to grind to get another Meteor stack&1 full Ultima stack in preparation for Ultima Weapon, my highly anticipated adversary. After a long&tedious trek through forced encounters where I try to card everyone as best as I can, I finally reach the bottom. All my effort is about to bear fruit and despite the many unavoidable level ups I got to face him with a relatively low-leveled party: Squall 26, Rinoa 18, Irvine 17. Right as the fight started, Ultima gave me a hero's welcome: Light pillar for 60k damage to Rinoa. Here we go.

No way I was gonna beat him on my first try so I just tried to figure out the mechanics and get a feel for the boss. I didn't expect to be able to inflict statuses on him but still I tried, to no avail. I assume he is just completely immune to everything as it should be, or with a ludicrously high resistance. His physicals crit often and hard, killing instantly even through protect. Most of him elemental attacks were just absorbed by my elem-def junctions. My first attempt was promptly brought to an end by a combo of nasty non-elemental spells that I wasn't prepared for at all.

Well, it didn't take long for me to figure out his gimmick which, as it turns out, is surprisingly simplistic. I don't want to go into too much detail here anyways so as to not spoil the boss for people who might be reading through this thread before playing. Suffice to say that once you figure it out, it's easy to plan accordingly and at the end of the day I was able to beat him after only a couple spell casts from him and drawn a full Aura stack on top of it for good measure. Not too shabby, if I do say so myself. I'll provide detailed feedback on him via PM, this has gone on long enough already.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: blankdiploma on 2019-02-18 19:37:46
Hello,

I purchased the Steam version of FF VIII solely to try this mod, but I didn't realize how much stupid crap they'd forced into the re-release, and refunded it immediately. Is there any chance at all that you might consider releasing a version of the hex edit data for the original 2000 PC release? I understand that it's a bit of work to translate the address space from the steam release to the original, but I really hope you'll consider doing it for those of us who don't want to support Square Enix's awful decisions surrounding this port.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-18 23:20:28
Hey blankdiploma, and welcome to the forums. With crap, do you mean the in-built cheats, like getting full spell stocks automatically and the like? I guess you already know but I better say it just to be sure, but all these things are optional. Other than that, I don't think there are any real differences between the 2000 PC and Steam versions, besides the launcher. Still, I'm planning to make the mod compatible with other versions too, just not sure when.

Ayoyo, that's an extensive report again, thank you. I'll keep the comments in spoilers for now too.

Spoiler: show
From what I remember, the ruby dragon in the Laguna flashback didn't know any new tricks, just a tougher version of its vanilla counterpart. I don't recall what new spells it had but I drew full stacks whilst it slept. Relaxed fight. Blizzaga spam and Diablos dealing 9999 for good measure finished it off rather quickly after the drawing the spells.
Well, the difficulty of this battle depends on whether Ward is with you or not. If he is, Ruby Dragon will use Flare, Tornado and its infamous Breath attack. In the original game, it would be Firaga, Meteor and Breath - Meteor has been removed as it is clearly overused by enemies in vanilla late-game. If Ward is absent, the fight is noticably easier, but still more threatening than in vanilla due to Firaga instead of Fira being used, and the swipe attacks remain quite powerful regardless of party setup.

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Abadon hit really really hard but that's the only thing he's got going for him; naturally, I wanted to use Edea for this boss and boosting her magic made her completely annihilate Abadon with triple curagas. A single curaga dealt over 7k damage so that's a whopping ~22k damage per turn. Hot damn. He had no chance. I think a bit of tinkering to make his stances matter more, for example, would make for a more meaningful fight. Right now I didn't even get to see what his stance actually did, seeing as standing up didn't affect his holy resistance at all. So I just spammed curaga for the win. If players had to actually change their strategy completely according to his stances, that'd be more interesting.
Abadon can inflict Death with its tongue attack in addition to just Curse, but I guess you were protected from the status so you had an easier time (leveling up Edea as you said surely helps with the damage output too). Having Curaga at this point shouldn't be taken for granted either, since the only way to get full stocks at this point is by drawing it from the Tonberry King, who is an optional boss. For me it's always important to keep bosses defeatable even with less ideal setups and without having completed every sidequest prior to facing a certain boss.

If Abadon's stance changes, other attacks will be used, and his Vitality and Spirit will increase dramatically as usual, but as healing spells aren't affected by the Spirit stat (nor are they holy-elemental), you can still do full damage with them. What I could do is making Abadon go into Auto-Shell status when standing up, which would at least halve the damage by every healing spell thrown at him. I think that would be a reasonable change to prolong the battle so more of Abadon's potential can seen, even for anyone who already has Curaga and Triple at their disposal.

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Argh, more Laguna sequences. And it doesn't even give the option to exchange junctions from Edea to Ward or Kiros, she's not even on the list when it prompts the exchange. I have no idea what happens to her spell inventory and junctions at this point and I didn't care to find out - I loaded from a previous save and took everything off from her before entering Esthar.
I think Edea is not available here as she's the only one who doesn't lose consciousness due to Ellone's actions. Still, if Edea is in the party when entering this Laguna sequence, none of her spells are accessible for the upcoming battles at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory, which would put the player at a disadvantage, as these battles can be rough. I wanted to change that at some point so Edea appears on that list as well, but wasn't very familiar with the field code at the time, so I'll have a look at it again. Thanks for reminding me of this. Should be changed for sure.

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At long last, my favorite part of the game; free exploration with Ragnarok. I couldn't wait to fight some bosses so I go to measure myself against Cactuar, who spanks my arse with Ker Plunk right off the bat. 2 ultimate weapons later I return and cast protect on everyone so that his physicals are just strong enough to put people in critical HP, allowing me to Renzokuken him to oblivion. Ultimately, he's a bit underwhelming - a little buff to his speed ought to be enough to make players struggle with maintaining comfortable limit break spam a bit more, or at least an immunity to slow(I think it worked on him?).
Jumbo Cactuar already attacks far more often in the mod. In vanilla, he would skip turns like crazy, more than almost any other enemy in the game. Still, you are right about the Slow resistance. At the moment it's 50%, which is low enough to trigger the status easily by having Slow junctioned to Status-Atk to any character with a decent Strength stat. I'll do something about that, thanks again.

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I was super psyched for Bahamut fight - I couldn't remember at all what his deal was so junctioning was hard as I tried to divine what kind of attacks he was going to use. I was scared shitless for Mega Flare and had shell up on everyone at all times regardless of how scanning him it said Mega Flare ignores all defenses. When he finally used it, it barely dealt half my HP in damage, making me laugh. Is it supposed to be this weak? Overall this fight was extremely simple and straightforward - my "generic" boss junction setup proved victorious on the first try once again as I absorbed his tornadoes. Got my first Lion Heart proc against him and it finished him off, leaving me a bit disappointed. I think there's room for a stronger gimmick/mechanic with a boss as awesome as Bahamut. Making Mega Flare stronger and maybe even adding a countdown to it harks back to earlier FF games where a countdown preceded Mega Flare and it pretty much wrecks you if you aren't fully healed&protected, but it's not unfair since it's clearly telegraphed. Something like that would be super awesome.
Hm, do you remember the damage done by Mega Flare exactly? It should do around 6000-6500 HP damage that ignores Spirit, which makes it pretty much the most powerful AoE attack at this point of the game. The damage can be halved by having Shell on, that's correct, but also making it ignore Shell? Not sure. Getting a Game Over against Bahamut can be very frustrating, as the two preceding battles would then have to be done again. That's why I decided to not make this battle overly difficult. Compared to vanilla, Bahamut starts using Mega Flare quite a bit earlier, which I thought should do to spice this battle up a bit. I'd rather swap Tornado and Thundaga for something else than making Mega Flare do any more damage to be honest. As for the countdown thing you suggested, there's plenty of that very late in the game, but I'll see what I can do.

As for Ultima Weapon in general, I'll respond to your PM later.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-02-19 11:35:11
Spoiler: show
Well, the difficulty of this battle depends on whether Ward is with you or not. If he is, Ruby Dragon will use Flare, Tornado and its infamous Breath attack. In the original game, it would be Firaga, Meteor and Breath - Meteor has been removed as it is clearly overused by enemies in vanilla late-game. If Ward is absent, the fight is noticably easier, but still more threatening than in vanilla due to Firaga instead of Fira being used, and the swipe attacks remain quite powerful regardless of party setup.
Ward?? Here? *looks it up* Wow. In all my years playing this game, I never knew that was even possible. Holy crap, what are the odds that I've never once not read the damn Timber maniacs issue. Still, Rubies are vulnerable to sleep so it's probably easy to control nonetheless.

Abadon can inflict Death with its tongue attack in addition to just Curse, but I guess you were protected from the status so you had an easier time (leveling up Edea as you said surely helps with the damage output too). Having Curaga at this point shouldn't be taken for granted either, since the only way to get full stocks at this point is by drawing it from the Tonberry King, who is an optional boss. For me it's always important to keep bosses defeatable even with less ideal setups and without having completed every sidequest prior to facing a certain boss.

If Abadon's stance changes, other attacks will be used, and his Vitality and Spirit will increase dramatically as usual, but as healing spells aren't affected by the Spirit stat (nor are they holy-elemental), you can still do full damage with them. What I could do is making Abadon go into Auto-Shell status when standing up, which would at least halve the damage by every healing spell thrown at him. I think that would be a reasonable change to prolong the battle so more of Abadon's potential can seen, even for anyone who already has Curaga and Triple at their disposal.
How did I forget about the instant death infliction! That's the very reason I had to get creative because I only have 2 stat-defs. This is where being a FF veteran came in handy because somewhere in the back of my mind I had this suspicion that Zombie makes you immune to death, so this might be the first time ever that I've used the status defensively with stellar results aside from FFX where one boss forces you to have Zombie status.
Oh, right, the curagas. Well, me being me, naturally I drew them from Tonberry. Slipped my mind that other enemies haven't carried those yet. Yes, I agree and addressed the balancing act earlier, the bosses ought to be manageable with less than ideal setups. I am making an effort to limit myself in that respect to get a better idea of the difficulty and some utilities I've flat out barred out such as card modding but still, knowledge is power. Autoshell sounds like a perfect way to circumvent the fact that SPR doesn't protect him from the barrage of curative spells. After all most players will be using healing magic since Squall flat out tells you to do that at the beginning.

Hm, do you remember the damage done by Mega Flare exactly? It should do around 6000-6500 HP damage that ignores Spirit, which makes it pretty much the most powerful AoE attack at this point of the game. The damage can be halved by having Shell on, that's correct, but also making it ignore Shell? Not sure. Getting a Game Over against Bahamut can be very frustrating, as the two preceding battles would then have to be done again. That's why I decided to not make this battle overly difficult. Compared to vanilla, Bahamut starts using Mega Flare quite a bit earlier, which I thought should do to spice this battle up a bit. I'd rather swap Tornado and Thundaga for something else than making Mega Flare do any more damage to be honest. As for the countdown thing you suggested, there's plenty of that very late in the game, but I'll see what I can do.
Exactly that: tad over 3000 which equated to around half my HP in damage. I mean you'd have to be a total madman to not have shell on everyone against freaking Bahamut. Yea I'm not saying make it go through Shell, that'd be pretty cheap. And yes, the game over here is punishing, I mean I'm the guy who begged you for additional save points to make the way back to bosses less tedious, but couldn't it be made less punishing by addressing the Via Dolorosa before Bahamut? I never got why the encounter rate has to be so damn high on the way to the pillar anyway, seems rather pointless seeing as they're just generic boring monsters from the beginning of the game and seem to add nothing except tedium to the whole ordeal. Are they really needed? Ruby drake and Behemoth at least make sense as they're formidable and tie in with the dialogue mechanic.

Thinking back, it's astonishing to me how well you've redesigned the game. I'm about as critical as they come and I find only a few loopholes, if you will, when it comes to bosses. These minor updates like slow resistance for J-Cactuar, shell on Abadon etc. is really all that's needed to make them super sweet and not that easily breakable even for players like me who enjoy experimenting and finding out the weaknesses. 
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: blankdiploma on 2019-02-20 05:27:31
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Hey blankdiploma, and welcome to the forums. With crap, do you mean the in-built cheats, like getting full spell stocks automatically and the like? I guess you already know but I better say it just to be sure, but all these things are optional. Other than that, I don't think there are any real differences between the 2000 PC and Steam versions, besides the launcher. Still, I'm planning to make the mod compatible with other versions too, just not sure when.

Oh, I'm mostly referring to the horrible DRM launcher and (somehow!) managing to ship with WORSE controller support than the original PC release. Those other extras are kind of silly, but really it's just Square Enix's business practices that I don't want to support, not if they're going to treat their venerable franchises this poorly.

It's great to hear that you're planning on making it compatible with other versions of the game! I will gladly wait patiently for that to happen.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-21 08:51:14
@Ayoyo:

Spoiler: show
The battles on the way to the Light Pillar inside Deep Sea Research Center can all be avoided by approaching it carefully while it doesn't emit any light. I would be all in for adding a save possibility somewhere there - if not in between the two mandatory battles against Ruby Dragon/Behemoth and Bahamut, then maybe at least right before triggering the pillar dialogue. I'll check that and see how it goes.


@blankdiploma:

You could also just give it a try and see if the provided mod files are compatible with the 2000 PC version as well (after creating backups of all original files, just in case). I've never tried it myself to be honest, since I've never owned this version. It could very well work, I just can't guarantee it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-02-21 16:35:21
Spoiler: show
@Ayoyo:

The battles on the way to the Light Pillar inside Deep Sea Research Center can all be avoided by approaching it carefully while it doesn't emit any light. I would be all in for adding a save possibility somewhere there - if not in between the two mandatory battles against Ruby Dragon/Behemoth and Bahamut, then maybe at least right before triggering the pillar dialogue. I'll check that and see how it goes.

Never knew that. Guess I shouldn't be so stubbornly old-school and just look stuff up occasionally, would probably save me a lot of trouble. One additional point that calls for a save/menu possibility is that after you trigger the pillar dialogue(it's not our will to fight one), there's no chance to menu anymore and you just gotta fight Bahamut with what you have. Now this would be fine and makes players think ahead because they have 3 encounters to deal with, but it might be more fair and convenient to at least offer a save and menu option before the Ruby/Behemoth/Bahamut gauntlet to prevent cheap deaths to Bahamut only because you were junctioned for easier random encounters.

Well, this is it then - the final stretch and my last report for this playthrough.

Raijin&Fujin - I expected to walk over these guys after dominating Ultima Weapon, but they do actually pose a threat even for a geared party if you let them buff themselves. Once again the player is encouraged to use their head and dispel the Auras and the like away, because if you don't, they'll whoop yo ass. I like the scripted meteor, it's kind of like a wake-up call that you've entered endgame.

Mobile type8 - Goddamn, this thing just wouldn't yield the damn steals. Not gonna lie, I died twice to this boss trying to stubbornly mug everything even though it has been clearly designed to specifically make this kind of thing difficult with hard counters to every physical hit. In that respect, this boss is super unique and I quite enjoyed the challenge and being made to hesitate constantly hitting it.

Adel - Another unique boss experience. For one, a big chunk of your arsenal, mainly all AoE, is unusable in this fight and I think the Rinoa being drained away- mechanic has been made more relevant(less hp on her/Adel drains more?) so that you really have to support her almost constantly. Casting shell&regen on her right away gave me a lot of leeway in that regard though. I wonder if you can cast zombie on her? Wouldn't she be constantly healed then? Anyways, Adel uses pretty potent spells here and you better keep those shells active. Liked it overall even though it was nothing super challenging.

Ultimecia castle - Always a fun stretch of the game. I saw myself using regular attacks against Sphinx(duh), then triple casting magic took down Tripoint&Gargantua, then Irvine's AP ammo owned Red giant and so on - the whole spectrum of tools came in handy here. Especially liked how many of these bosses had such high defense, you truly can't just spam A to win no matter how overleveled you are. Trauma gave me trouble because I'm stupid and couldn't figure out that I'm already putting his HP to zero as he drained the little things; I thought I just need to grind him down and heal the little ones so as to prevent them from triggering mega super blast cannon or whatever. Doing a low level run, nobody in my party was able to survive that thing. Well, after spending about 10 minutes triple flare-ing him I finally scanned him and realized what was up. Triple Ultima to blow the whole bunch to smithereens.

Taking on the final bosses was exactly what I had hoped it would be; they're fat enough to let you throw your best stuff at them and not immediately keel over, and on the other hand hit hard enough to make you feel under threat of dying. It's a tricky tightrope for sure, balancing a long gauntlet like this, and well... I think it succeeds despite how I was able to beat the whole thing with a party of 2 (Squall, lvl26&Quistis, lvl19) because of bad luck in the beginning where my third party member with junctions died and immediately got sucked into time but I didn't want to give up, thinking this would be a great challenge to see if I can still beat it on the first try and 1 character short. So from that you can deduce that it certainly can't be too difficult or unfair at least, but still it should be threatening enough to keep players on their toes. I did have to delve into my supply of aura stones and elixirs to come out on top with my 2 guy party.
Honestly I can't say how the gauntlet could be made even better, or indeed even how I personally would improve it - there's only so much damage you can pump out at the player especially towards the end before it goes overboard and players are forced to plow through the very slow-moving first parts of the fight all over again before they get back to the hard part. However I must say that I found the experience enjoyable in the circumstances I experienced it(severely handicapped in multiple respects) and thus it would very likely fall flat on its face were I to play with normal expected levels and a full party.

Overall quite satisfied with disc 4, moreso than 3. Don't know how skewed my impression is due to low levels and other self-imposed handicaps. 
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-22 08:53:07
@Ayoyo: Another extensive report. Here we go.

Spoiler: show
One additional point that calls for a save/menu possibility is that after you trigger the pillar dialogue(it's not our will to fight one), there's no chance to menu anymore and you just gotta fight Bahamut with what you have. Now this would be fine and makes players think ahead because they have 3 encounters to deal with, but it might be more fair and convenient to at least offer a save and menu option before the Ruby/Behemoth/Bahamut gauntlet to prevent cheap deaths to Bahamut only because you were junctioned for easier random encounters.
Hm, I guess it would be best to just enable saving for this entire room, no matter where you stand. Would be very easy to implement and allow saving right before touching the pillar, which would eliminate the need to fly back to the island and sneaking back to the pillar every time your party dies there. 

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Raijin&Fujin - I expected to walk over these guys after dominating Ultima Weapon, but they do actually pose a threat even for a geared party if you let them buff themselves. Once again the player is encouraged to use their head and dispel the Auras and the like away, because if you don't, they'll whoop yo ass. I like the scripted meteor, it's kind of like a wake-up call that you've entered endgame.
Agree about Fujin's Meteor. It was really important for me when changing this battle, so I made her cast it quite a few turns earlier than usual, so it's pretty much guaranteed the player will see it (in vanilla she would likely be defeated before getting the chance to cast it). Same goes for Raijin and his different attack pattern after using Aura on himself. All in all, this is one of the many battles that actually had potential and would have been interesting in vanilla already, if they just weren't doing so little damage, casting buffs on themselves repeatedly even though there's no need, and weren't skipping turns like crazy. Glad to hear you enjoyed the revised battle in this mod.

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Mobile type8 - Goddamn, this thing just wouldn't yield the damn steals. Not gonna lie, I died twice to this boss trying to stubbornly mug everything even though it has been clearly designed to specifically make this kind of thing difficult with hard counters to every physical hit. In that respect, this boss is super unique and I quite enjoyed the challenge and being made to hesitate constantly hitting it.
Pretty much the same as above. I didn't change this boss much at all, besides making its behaviour and system actually matter by making it switch between modes much faster and fire counter attacks that are threatening enough to keep players on their toes, especially in regards to the other attacks this boss can do. Sorry for your trouble in regards to stealing the items by the way, I guess the probability should be increased as Laser Cannons aren't that unique at this point anymore, as they can now be farmed by keep doing the new battles at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory at the end of disc 3.

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Adel - Another unique boss experience. For one, a big chunk of your arsenal, mainly all AoE, is unusable in this fight and I think the Rinoa being drained away- mechanic has been made more relevant(less hp on her/Adel drains more?) so that you really have to support her almost constantly. Casting shell&regen on her right away gave me a lot of leeway in that regard though. I wonder if you can cast zombie on her? Wouldn't she be constantly healed then? Anyways, Adel uses pretty potent spells here and you better keep those shells active. Liked it overall even though it was nothing super challenging.
Yes, the mechanic in this battle has been made more relevant by making Adel's Drains stronger and Rinoa's HP lower, so she can take up to 3 Drains without any player intervention. Rinoa is immune to Zombie in this battle, so she can't be healed this way. I don't really know how to make this battle more challenging to be honest. Adel's spells can be quite damaging already and many attacks can't be used because of Rinoa. Maybe by changing Energy Bomber? At the moment, it's nothing more than a standard physical attack. Maybe adding a status effect to it would be a good idea to spice things up a little.

As for the final battles, the fact that you managed to beat them on low levels with only 2 characters alive leaves room for some more changes for sure. I don't think I'll touch the very last phase again, as she is extremely fast there, using two new attacks than can be very devastating, but the previous phases are indeed a bit on the slow side. Attacks like Thundaga or Blizzaga during the first phase are a little underwhelming as well and feel more like wasted turns by Ultimecia. I'll see what I can do to add in some other attacks in there, and make Griever and the initial 3rd form a little faster. As always, suggestions are welcome.

I'll respond to your latest PM later, don't have the time right now. For now, all I can say is that you made some really good points that sparked interest in making certain changes :)


Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Robgatti on 2019-02-22 20:58:44
Just curious, is it still advised to keep your Party LV low using no encounters?

I'd like to just play the game casually, preferably without no encounters.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-22 21:39:37
Hey Robgatti.

No, keeping levels low is definitely not advised in this mod, as bosses are at fixed levels and stat gains through leveling are higher than in the original game (and will likely be increased even more in future updates), so there isn't much to gain from low level runs, unless you are in for a tougher challenge. One of this mod's goals is to break with many of the conventions that have manifested over the years in regards to the game's playstyle to deliver a new experience to players that are bored by these conventions, making enemies more interesting by mixing encounter formations up, giving them new attacks etc. instead of just skipping them by having Enc-None activated all the time and breeze through the game, including bosses.

Enc-None isn't available until late in the game, similarly to Final Fantasy VI and X,  and Enc-Half unlocks after Diablos reached level 32 (this level requirement might be reduced, as constant random encounters are just not for everyone). If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Robgatti on 2019-02-22 21:47:25
Thank you for the prompt response!

Starting my playthrough now without Triple Triad or Enc - None.
After Dozens, possibly over a hundred runs, I'm so happy to play the game in a new setting and not spending 4 hours at Balamb Garden playing Triple Triad.

Thank you for the work you put in here, I'll do a write up as I progress through.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: CeruleanSpirit on 2019-02-24 14:43:15
Hi,

Having played the PSX version about 5-6 times, I brought the Steam version just to try this mod. I am currently just before the 2nd dream sequence. I can already say i'm impressed. It is somewhat different. You really have to search every nook and cranny of the game again because things may be different. Example: some minor quest like the Dollet bone quest yield a Pet Pals magazine that you can't find in Timber. I like the approach where you remove from one hand but give with the other hand. A few points on my playing experience.

- You can't really break the game early on with Triple Triad. It will give you a nice start but that's it. The spells you will most likely be able to stack to a 100 early are: cure, scan, fire, thunder, blizzard and sleep.
- New: The fire cave can be challenged in a 5 min. run. That's really hard! If you beat it, you get a Elem Atk. J., which is really nice this early. My way of doing it was to draw double spells from the library draw point. Flee from every encounter. Use double it to double blizzards on Ifrit, that in conjunction with summoning Shiva. Even then, I had perhaps 10 sec. left.
- Enemies yield more good items through drops and mug. I have found out that if you know items and the alchemical process of refinement well, this is the way to really get stuff and spells. A few examples. I was able to easily stock hundreads of aero and water spells hunting down Fastitocalon and Thrustaevis for Fish fins and Shear Feathers. Also, refining a whisper from adamantoise now yield 100x curas. Get a few in your inventory and you've got a giant hoard of healing spells. I like that because the game becomes a type of monster hunt.
- Bosses are now tougher and you have to strategize more. Some examples:
- Raldos and Granaldos now all attack right off the bat. They will destroy you if you're unprepared. I had to clear the Raldos early with 2 big summons.
- Diablos now cast pain. I revolved my strategy around blinding him, having phoenix downs on hand, keeping my team hp low and using Squall's limit break repeatedly. If he cast pain, he will kill my character but the bad status will now stick. Then I revive my character.
- Gerogero is now a master of bad status effects and cannot be instantly killed with a phoenix down. On top of that, I hadn't found a good source of Esuna this early in the game. I killed him with 3 hi-potion+ (6000 dam.) which I refined from Biggs and Wedge cards.
- A lvl. 40 X-ATM092 can be challenged if you go up the Dollet hills after the Timber events. The thing is impossible to beat for me this early. I will wait til disc 2.

Overall very good mod, I am enjoying playing FF VIII again. I will keep posting my impressions as I keep playing.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: SefiCompacto on 2019-02-24 14:45:42
Not sure if this has been reported before, but seems like any of the new revive abilities (renew and awakening moon at least have this, not even sure if there's any other) are slightly borked. It's not letting me target my party members after reviving them, shows the name in black text as if they were still dead
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-24 22:46:07
Hi CeruleanSpirit, and welcome to the forums. It's good to hear that you considered the new Fire Cavern reward appropriate. Adding items for sidequests rewards can be quite difficult as you have to be careful not make the rewards too underwhelming and not too good either. Thanks for the other impressions, it was an interesting read, and feel free to report back again.

@SefiCompacto: Well observed, I noticed this a couple of days ago as well. I've been working on fix, but it seems that creating new moves that can revive and heal at the same time isn't as easy as I thought. Guess I have to revert Revive and Awakening Moon to their standard effects for now (these are the only ones), or make Awakening Moon act like a Megalixir at least, since Invincibility that early in the game is broken balance-wise. I'll try to upload an update today or tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: CeruleanSpirit on 2019-02-25 23:50:37
Hey thanks for the reply.  :D I'll be sure to give details of my playthrough details and impressions:

Alrighty, so I am currently at the 3rd dream sequence at beginning of CD2:

- A good knowledge of the game can make strides. The monsters, items and spells are so closely linked that I go from the principle that every monster has a story to tell and something to give. Mugging, Carding, drops all work well if you know what to look for. I got my death spells hunting down Belhelmel for their Circular saw which I refined. I got my Berserk mugging steel pipes from Wendigo. Then I carded them to get Steel Orb refining them to Demi spells. I like this better than playing TT for hours to get cards or drawing boredom.
- Second dream sequence: The last 2 esthar soldiers, I call them esthar commanders, as they are tougher and can do 900 damage. I dealt with them with summons of Quetzal, Shiva and Ifrit. A little Suggestion: The Elastoid and Gesper enemies can only be encountered in Laguna's dreams, that's a pity because they are missable. I would put them in the encounters on the Esthar road along with the Gaylas.
- Minotaur Bros: The biggest challenge that I got was that Minotaur's morningstar induced confuse on hit. I didn't get a good source of confuse or Esuna at this point. I strategized and came up with a plan: Come in battle poisoned (Bio on my characters pre-fight). Yes! This way even if my character was going to act under confusion, the poison damage was going to end the confusion immediately. Tough battle but it worked along with Protect, Regen and Float.
- Iguions: No issue here, I knew I had to watch out for Petrification.
- Seifer duel: Hey, I used the new Ifrit's ability "Return damage". I let the half damage rebound, kept curing myself with draw and laughed. Suggestion: remove cure/cura/curaga from his draw list. Too easy.
- Edea: Her spellcasting damage was impressive (~1500 dam.). Squall was my main DPS, the other 2 were on standby. At one point, she tried using Zombie over and over on Rinoa. I knew a cure spell was next so I kept using spare holy waters. The problem was that she kept wasting her action trying to get the zombie to stick. Might I suggest a different AI for her: Remove dispel from her draw list. Let her cast reflect on herself then let her cast her -ga elemental spell on herself to rebound on to a character, just like a high level Buel. That will actually negate the usual strategy of using Carbuncle for reflect on everybody, then her wasting 3 turns dispelling the reflects.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-02-26 10:01:47
Beefed up versions of Elastoids and Gespers can be fought again towards the end of the game, as part of the new sidequest at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory after the Lunar Cry, for as many times you like. They also appear as mini bosses during the last Laguna flashback on disc 3, as usual. Adding them before the Lunar Cry events for Squall & co. would conflict with the reason why they can be fought again later at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory at all, so I think that should do for now.

Esuna can be first drawn from Vysage near the Tomb of the Unknown King in the night areas, and Remedies can be first bought in Deling City instead of being available right after starting the game, to make all the shops more unique, as it is usually the case in all other Final Fantasy games, and also to give Antidote, Echo Screen etc. more relevance in the early-game. If you think the Remedy availability is too late, let me know, and I might add it to Timber Shop.

Seifer and Edea: Locking Edea into casting Zombie over and over by just using Holy Water immediately has been addressed and fixed for the latest version. If you are still on 1.1 try updating and see if that fixes it, or wait for the next update coming very soon (adding in a pretty big quality of life change will slightly delay it). I'll think about your suggestions in regards to Seifer and Edea - it seems she still uses Dispel too often if any character is under Reflect. No problems with Carbuncle being helpful here though, since he is the "new" GF at this point, so making Edea 100% anti-Carbuncle would be a little unfair :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: CeruleanSpirit on 2019-02-26 21:29:35
I only encountered the Vysage after my visit to the Tomb of the unknown king, which I promptly farmed for esuna. :( Oh well, no tears over wasted curas, bios and antidotes.

Seifer: I would probably replace the Cure/Cura/Curaga by a flat low level Cure or something less useful like Life or Esuna. Seriously, coming to this boss fight without any means of healing is like coming to gunblade fight with a nail clipper.

Edea: My bad, I forgot this was a balance mod for a second. If this she doesn't lock on Zombie in the newest version, then i'm fine with her. The usual rule of thumb in RPGs: The new stuff you've got is usually going to help you beat the next boss. Carbuncle in this case.

I downloaded v1.1a at the very top of the thread. Where can I download the newest version of the mod?

Thanks!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1a)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-03-01 17:07:44
Version 1.1.2 now out.


Changes Overview


Balance changes


Enemies


New feature: Easy card rule abolishment

(https://i.imgur.com/Y19EGyC.png)

Most players probably know about the NPC pictured above - he is the one who can reset all Balamb rules by just challenging him to a card game. As part of this update, more such NPCs have been added in other regions as well, to allow easy card rule abolishment everywhere, not just Balamb. Using this new service won't be free in most cases though, in order to prevent abuse and also to give players more opportunities to spend their money. Costs vary between 20,000 and 100,000 Gil, depending on an area's default ruleset. I have tested this new feature at least once for every area, and it seemed to work flawlessly, but I can't guarantee it's 100% bug-free. Please report if you discover anything off regarding this feature, like rules not resetting despite having paid for it. The NPCs in question can be found at the following locations:

Dollet (https://i.imgur.com/wzrwWQt.png) | Galbadia (https://i.imgur.com/nonFG2w.png) | FH (https://i.imgur.com/1bW5dlh.png) | Centra (https://i.imgur.com/a6QuYD4.png) | Trabia (https://i.imgur.com/u1YW75U.png) | Esthar (https://i.imgur.com/SuUcJ4B.png) | Lunar 1 (https://i.imgur.com/3bt7rv1.png) | Lunar 2 (https://i.imgur.com/7MVg5fN.png)
 


Other changes


Many thanks for all the user feedback lately, it has been very helpful :)

@CeruleanSpirit: 1.1a was the latest version before this one, so I guess you just had a bad RNG and saw her casting Zombie a little too often. The probability of her using Zombie has been reduced for this update as well.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Nikito on 2019-03-10 21:45:23
Hey, i bought FF8 for PC to try out this mod and i have to say i'm loving it so far.

I have a question though, How early is it possible to get a steel pipe for squall's first weapon upgrade? I found out the hard way that Elastoid doesn't turn into a steel pipe anymore.

On that note, is there a list of where to get items in this mod?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-03-11 02:34:19
Hey Nikito, and welcome to the forums.

The first opportunity to get a Steel Pipe is in Timber, right after completing the train mission on disc 1. Make sure to stop by the Town's Gate near the inn and help the two guards dealing with the Galbadian soldiers. Unlike the original game, this will be rewarded with a Steel Pipe and some screws, which is just enough to upgrade to Squall's second weapon. Even if you miss this opportunity, you can still get Steel Pipes shortly after by mugging Wendigos in Timber Roshfall Forest on the world map.

There is no list that contains all the item information yet, but there will be one soon for those who are interested.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Nikito on 2019-03-16 12:40:03
Thanks, the mod is really something so far.

Did you by any chance change the queen of cards side quest? I just reached her in Dollet and she's asking for a Quezacotl card and didn't say the mini mog card is with the old guy's son, which i've never had happen before.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-03-16 15:50:08
Yes, the Queen of Cards sidequest has been slightly changed indeed. The chain now starts with losing the Quezacotl card instead of the Minimog card, to move this entire quest to disc 2 and onwards, as most of the cards that can be won from it still refine into something very useful.

Make sure to ask the Queen about her artist father whenever she is in Dollet to always get hints about where new cards appear (in the original, these hints are very easy to miss) - the Kiros card holder has been changed as well and is now found at Winhill inn rather than Deling City streets. Other than that, the Queen now requests the Pandemona card instead of the Sacred card, but the rest of the questline remains the same as in the original game.

By the way, here's a full guide on how to get Squall's weapons as early as possible. The other characters will soon follow.

Spoiler: show
[Shear Trigger]

Steel Pipe x1
Screw x4

Notes: A Steel Pipe and 5 Screws can be received in Timber by helping the guards dealing with the Galbadian Soldiers near the inn (first visit only). Otherwise, mug Steel Pipes from Wendigos in Timber Roshfall Forest or on dirt ground near Deling City and get the Screws from Geezards.


[Cutting Trigger]

Betrayal Sword x1
Screw x8

Notes: Betrayal Swords are dropped by low level Forbiddens that can be first encountered inside the Tomb of the Unknown King. A fixed encounter that consists of 3 Forbiddens (all at level 18) has been added there, so it's pretty much guaranteed the player will get a Betrayal Sword on the way to beating the Brothers. This is the only weapon that can be acquired early by modding cards right after the beginning of the game - disc 1 Lion Heart is no longer possible in this mod.


[Flame Saber]

Mesmerize Blade x1
Dragon Fang x8
Screw x8

Notes: Fight Mesmerize for the Blades and Blue Dragon for the Fangs after getting control over Balamb Garden on disc 2. They can be both encountered on the Trabia continent, albeit Blue Dragons are rare (the highest chance is the snow covered forests). Dragon Fangs can also be bought at the new shop in Deling City with Familiar Ability unlocked. I am aware of this weapon's availability being quite far away from Cutting Trigger and too close to Twin Lance, so it will likely be changed to an earlier point in the game soon.


[Twin Lance]

Orihalcon x2
Red Fang x2
Screw x12

Notes: One Orihalcon can be stolen from BGH251F2 (2nd), and they drop from med-high leveled Adamantoises, as usual. Red Fangs can be stolen from Hexadragons that now appear in forests on the Centra continent (instead of Ruby Dragons that in turn have been moved to Grandidi Forest) or won as a high level drop. Hexadragons also appear in Galbadia Garden on disc 2 now, alongside Tri-Faces and Death Claws.


[Punishment]

Dino Bone x2
Chef's Knife x1
Laser Cannon x1
Screw x8

Notes: For getting Dino Bones as early as possible, use LV Up on the T-Rexaurs on the Balamb continent until they reach LV 40+, then mug them or get them as a drop. Chef's Knife is dropped by Tonberries, as usual. As for the Laser Cannon, it's still possible to get it from high leveled Belhelmels as a rare drop, but there are other options that are more convenient. For one, it can be stolen from the Elastoid that appears during the final Laguna flashback and also from the Elastoids that can be fought as part of a new sidequest at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory after the Lunar Cry events, for as many times you like.


[Lion Heart]

Adamantine x1
Moon Stone x4
Pulse Ammo x12

Notes: Get the Adamantine as a drop from high leveled Adamantoises at various beaches on the world map, as usual (I would recommend the one near Cactuar Island, at which they are most common). Two Moon Stones can be acquired as part of sidequests (Winhill vase quest, Chocobo Forest) - the remaining two can be most easily won from Toramas after the Lunar Cry events. Not much has changed about the Pulse Ammo availability, other than the new possibility of farming them at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory, by refining the Elastoid's Laser Cannons into Pulse Ammo.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Nikito on 2019-03-16 18:52:09
Thank you so much for that guide, it will surely come in handy. I'm looking forward to the zell one as well.

On a kinda related note, is it not possible to change weapons so that they give magic too? Weapon upgrading on Sephie, Quistis and Rinoa feel kind of underwhelming if not useless with them giving only strength boosts.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-03-19 16:02:37
Ok, here's the guide for remaining characters. Also made a correction to Squall's Twin Lance (I confused Orihalcon and Giant's Ring in the description).

Spoiler: show

Zell's weapons

[Maverick]
Dragon Fin x1
Spider Web x4

Notes: One Dragon Fin can be found as part of the Dog sidequest in Dollet when doing it on disc 1 or 2. Two more can be stolen from the Iguions at the end of disc 1. Note that Dragon Fins can be also used to create the valuable Double spells, so if there are only a few Dragon Fins in your inventory, think carefully about what to spend them on. Spider Webs are won from Caterchipillars, as usual.
 

[Gauntlet]
Giant's Ring x2
Fury Fragment x2

Notes: Only a few options are available for getting a Giant's Ring before they become available in Esthar. One can be found in the Chocobo Forest of Fun on the Centra continent, while another can be received from Zone in exchange for the Girl Next Door magazine. Fury Fragments can be stolen from Blue Dragon in the snow covered forests on the Trabia continent, on any level.


[Ehrgeiz]
Phoenix Spirit x1
Dragon Skin x4
Inferno Fang x2

Notes: At the moment, the only way to get a Phoenix Spirit is by refining 20 Phoenix Pinions using GFAbl Med-RF, which can be costly and requires Eden to be unlocked. A Phoenix Spirit will be very likely added as a sidequest reward soon. Dragon Skins are most easily won from high leveled Anacondaurs around Dollet's mountain range, and Inferno Fangs from high leveled Ruby Dragons that appear at their usual places in the late-game (if you want to fight them as early as possible, check out Grandidi Forest on disc 2).



Irvine's weapons

[Ulysses]
Steel Pipe x1
Bomb Fragment x1
Screw x2

Notes: I think the materials are unchanged from the base game. Steel Pipes can be stolen from Wendigos in Timber Roshfall Forest, on dirt ground near Deling City, and in D-District Prison a little later. A Bomb Fragment is sometimes dropped by Bombs, even the low level Bombs inside Fire Cavern. An encounter that has Bombs in it will be likely added somewhere on the Galbadia continent soon, in case they didn't drop one in Fire Cavern or the player doesn't want to use Card Mod.


[Bismarck]
Steel Pipes x2
Dynamo Stone x4
Screw x8

Notes: Dynamo Stones can be stolen from med-high leveled Blitzes that are common on the Centra Continent. It's not a guaranteed steal, but chances to get one are high.


[Exeter]
Dino Bone x2
Shaman Stone x1
Star Fragment x2
Screw x18

Notes: For getting Dino Bones as early as possible, use LV Up on the T-Rexaurs on the Balamb continent until they reach LV 40+, then mug them or get them as a drop. Shaman Stones are rare, but one can be stolen from the final sorceress at the beginning of disc 4. Can be also won by modding the Bahamut card in this mod. As for Star Fragments, fight Iron Giants or get a few by doing the Dollet Dog sidequest on disc 3. This weapon is the only weapon that has received an inherent crit bonus that is entirely independent on Irvine's Luck stat.



Quistis' weapons

[Slaying Tail]
Magic Stone x1
Sharp Spike x1

Notes: Magic Stones are dropped by low level T-Rexaurs and by Granaldo on disc 1. Sharp Spikes can be dropped by Geezards in this mod as well, but it's not a guaranteed drop.


[Red Scorpion]
Ochu Tentacle x4
Dragon Skin x8

Notes: Ochu appears in Timber Forest (most frequently towards the end of the area) when playing as Laguna, so you might want to take advantage of that to get some Ochu Tentacles. For the Dragon Skins I would recommend fighting high leveled Anacondaurs near Dollet or med-high leveled Blue Dragons in the snow covered forests around Trabia Garden.


[Save the Queen]
Earth Stone x8
Malboro Tentacle x2
Energy Crystal x4

Notes: Earth Stone is one of the new items and is sometimes dropped by Armadodo and Abyss Worms. It can be also stolen from T-Rexaur on any level, or bought at the new Deling City Shop with the Familiar Ability unlocked. Malboro can be encountered at the usual places and the Energy Crystals can be still farmed by doing the scripted Elnoyle battle in Esthar over and over.



Rinoa's weapons

[Valkyrie]
Magic Stone x1
Shear Feather x2

Notes: Magic Stones are dropped by low level T-Rexaurs and by Granaldo on disc 1. Shear Feathers are a common steal/drop from Thrust Aevis that is pretty much everywhere around Timber and Deling City.


[Rising Sun]
Wind Stone x1
Saw Blade x4
Screw x8

Notes: Wind Stone is the other new item and is sometimes dropped by Thrust Aevis and Abyss Worms. It can be also stolen from Death Claws that can appear in the forest near the orphanage, in Balamb Garden during the Norg scenario and in Galbadia Garden on disc 2. Saw Blade is a guaranteed steal from Belhelmel that can be found around Galbadia Garden on disc 1, and is also usually dropped by them.


[Cardinal]
Cockatrice Pinion x8
Mesmerize Blade x4
Curse Spike x2

Notes: The earliest opportunity to fight Cockatrices is around Dollet (grassland area) or Timber Roshfall Forest. Mesmerizes are found pretty much everywhere on the Trabia Continent. For Curse Spikes, I would advise stealing some from Tri-Face that now appears in a scripted encounter during the Norg scenario in Balamb Garden, or waiting until reaching the MD Levels where they can be encountered as well.


[Shooting Star]
Windmill x2
Regen Ring x1
Force Armlet x1
Energy Crystal x2

Notes: Same as in base game, nothing has changed here. Windmills are a little harder to come by in this mod though. The first opportunity is likely by fighting high leveled Abyss Worms in Kashkabald Desert on the Centra continent. A Regen Ring is now rewarded for helping out Balamb Garden students during the Norg scenario, so you might want to save it for Rinoa's best weapon later.



Selphie's weapons

[Morning Star]
Steel Orb x2
Sharp Spike x2

Notes: A few Steel Orbs are dropped by Diablos, and Sharp Spikes are sometimes dropped by Geezards. If you don't want to use Diablos' Steel Orbs for upgrading the weapon, you can fight Wendigos in Timber Roshfall Forest to get Steel Orbs as well (as a drop only).


[Crescent Wish]
Wizard Stone x2
Life Ring x1
Sharp Spike x4

Notes: 5 Wizard Stones can be found as a treasure in one of the Chocobo Forests on the Trabia continent. They are generally rare until the mid-late-game, so you might want to take advantage of this relatively early opportunity. Life Rings are sometimes dropped by Mesmerizes, also found on Trabia. As for Sharp Spikes, fight Geezards or Grand Mantis on the Centra continent.


[Strange Vision]
Adamantine x1
Star Fragment x3
Curse Spike x2

Notes: Same as in the base game. Adamatine from high leveled Adamantoises, Star Fragments by doing the Dollet Dog sidequest on disc 3 or by fighting Iron Giants, Curse Spike from Tri-Faces in Balamb Garden disc 2 or Deep Sea Research Center on disc 3 or 4.



I would love to add more bonuses to weapons, such as giving some a Magic Boost, as you suggested. Unfortunately, it's one of the harder changes to make. FF8 tool support is still relatively young though, so it might be possible more easily at some point - fingers crossed.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Nikito on 2019-03-24 20:49:26
Thanks for the guide it's coming in real handy. I just finished Disc 1 due to me being a bit busy. So far i'm really enjoying everything though i feel Irvine is a bit weak compared to Squall and Zell when it comes to overall usefulness, maybe i'm misusing him though.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: demondrakeza666 on 2019-03-29 19:15:33
Hi,

Thank you for the awesome mod, been enjoying it alot

I have a question I would like to ask,if I may?

Just spent 2+ hours trying to get the Zell Card from his mom, I then read that the location has changed.
Is there any clues you can give as to where this is?
Is it obtainable in Disk 1?
Is it part of a Side Quest? eg Queen of Cards or the CC group?
Dont want to know exactly where it is,yet. but would like a vague idea of where it could be.

Thanx
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-03-30 00:35:15
@Nikito: Irvine's strong points are his Speed and Luck, to offset his lower HP, Strength and Vitality compared to Squall and Zell. His natural Speed growth is planned to be increased further for the next update, while Speed gains from junctions will be lowered, so Irvine's advantage in Speed over the other characters will always be noticable (only Selphie will come close). Besides that, all of his weapons will receive an innate critical hit bonus, not just Exeter. I hope this will make him more worthwhile overall.

@demondrakeza666: Yes, the Zell card has become part of a sidequest in this mod, rather than being won by a Triple Triad player. This sidequest can be completed at the beginning of disc 3 at the earliest, until the point of no return at the end of disc 3 at the latest. You don't have to care about any prerequisites prior to disc 3, the card can be found anytime during disc 3, no matter the circumstances. If you need more information about where to find items, cards etc, let me know.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Nikito on 2019-04-07 18:37:15
I was wondering how do you obtain Seifer's card now since Cid doesn't seem to have it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-08 03:56:01
Quote from: Nikito
I was wondering how do you obtain Seifer's card now since Cid doesn't seem to have it.

Nothing has changed in regards to the Seifer card, only the Kiros and Zell card locations are different from the original game.

Are you playing at his office? The probabilties of Cid using the Seifer card are different depending on where you play him. It's only 20% in his office, while later at Edea's House chances increase to about 50%. So I'd suggest keep trying.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: IFireflyl on 2019-04-12 06:41:25
Hey Callisto. I played this game back in December, and I never realized before that Omega Weapon has a set attack pattern that makes him entirely too easy to beat once you know the pattern. That made the game a bummer for me as I'd always played it with an end-goal of dying over and over until I finally beat him. What does your mod do to Omega Weapon? Is there a way to make his attacks more random so that you can't just cheese him? After realizing how easy he is this game completely lost appeal for me, and I'm hoping this mod can make Omega Weapon a nightmare (like he was when I first played this game and he absolutely mauled me). You know... so it actually feels like you deserve that achievement for beating him.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-13 03:35:51
In the current version of the mod, Omega Weapon uses a different opener than normal (not Lv5 Death), deals noticably more damage with his attacks (especially spells) and can use Light Pillar anytime. The latter is no longer an instant death attack in this mod, but very difficult to survive.

Other than that, Omega Weapons physical attacks are harder to dodge, as the Speed gains through junctions - and therefore also Evade stats - have been toned down by quite a bit, and he can't be easily put under the Vit 0 status effect by just casting Meltdown, so the fight will probably go on longer than usual - also because Squall's, Zell's and Irvines' Limit Breaks no longer inflict absurd amounts of damage. Character stats are generally harder to max out since the latest update, which should help with the difficulty of this battle as well.

I'm not sure if this is enough to turn him into a nightmare, but it should be a noticable step up frome the base game. I guess there's still more potential to this battle, like slightly more randomization of attacks, so his pattern becomes less predictable. I'll think about something for the next update, which should release soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Nikito on 2019-04-14 18:22:37
I was wondering when's the earliest time you can get Doomtrain?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-14 23:33:34
The earliest point you can get Doomtrain is identical to the original game (excluding Chocobo World): After leaving Esthar for the first time, head to Tears Point, get the Solomon Ring and active it when having 6 Steel Pipes, 6 Remedy+ and 6 Malboro Tentacles in your inventory.

Steel Pipes must be mugged from Wendigos (they appear very frequently on the dirt ground area near Deling City), as they are no longer available through Card Mod. As for the other items, the ways of obtaining them are the same as always. Here's a link:

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Doomtrain
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-04-15 03:08:49
Hey Callisto, just wanted to drop by to let you know how much I'm enjoying your mod. It's my first time revisiting this game in well over a decade and I'm having a blast with all the gameplay changes you've made. I actually restarted partway into my playthrough after finding out about your mod since I was finding the original game to be too easy. I'm still relatively early in but I've already found it to be much more engaging. The balance so far is spot on: boss fights are challenging and sometimes require multiple attempts and even normal battles can be deadly. It's a lot of fun learning which monsters I have to be vary of instead of just breezing through every normal encounter. I also love all the little extra things you've added throughout the game, like the side quests or extra rewards during the story. I can really see how much heart you've put into this.

I'm looking forward to the rest of the game and hopefully I'll report back with my thoughts after playing some more. Cheers!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: fooli on 2019-04-16 10:00:12
Hello, started this up with the Lunatic Pandora mod pack and am using the ultimate launcher.

Three things I wanted to bring up, I noticed in a previous comment that you changed the queen of cards quest. I lost my minimog card to her and she gave the text saying she was moving to dollet. I haven't gone back to check if she's actually gone. Also, could you put together a list of the card changes?

Second thing was during the late night visit to the training center with Quistis I was back attacked by a T-rexaur and before I could act was tail whipped for roughly 900 damage a pop and wiped out Quistis and Squall.

Third was Double doesn't seem to do anything. I have the option for single and double cast after I buff someone with it, but the second spell never goes off. Edit: Something in this process resolved -
If using Lunatic Pandora Mod Pack v1.0:
1. Delete the HL_Files/ folder.
2. Download THIS FILE to replace the UV Injector that comes with Lunatic Pandora
3. Place that file into RaW/GLOBAL/Hext along with the ragnarok mod and any other Hext files you have.
4. Run the game from the normal launcher.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: fooli on 2019-04-16 12:58:14
Another thing I just found, the guy that is supposed to be the vendor in the train base in Timber doesn't give you the ability to choose a response. The options are there, but you can't choose.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-16 15:30:40
Hey Yuey, thank you for the feedback, much appreaciated. I am somewhat satisfied with the overall balance as well, but I still feel like a few bosses are in need of further adjustments - mostly small ones, though. For example, the damage the Iguions can inflict with their Resonance attack is a bit overtuned, and the enemies at the top of the prison are still a bit too fast. So watch out once you get there, and don't set battle speed to max for bosses in general. Anyway, have a good time and feel free to report back with any impressions you have.

@Fooli: It's best to wait with starting the Queen of Cards sidequest until you have the Quezacotl card from Mayor Dobe in Fisherman's Horizon, as the whole quest chain now starts with this card instead of Minimog. All in all, not much has changed about this sidequest otherwise. Click spoiler tag for more details:

Spoiler: show
Instead of the Minimog card, you need to lose the Quezacotl card to the Card Queen. This creates the Kiros card, which can then be found at Winhill Inn. Second, instead of the Sacred Card, the Card Queen now requests the Pandemona card. This will create the Irvine card, which can still be won from Flo in Fisherman's Horizon. The rest of the quest remains the same as in the base game.


As for the T-Rexaur wipe, I'll look for a way to prevent back attacks against this enemy, or will just decrease the power of its tail attack a little.

Rechecked shop options in Timber train, and can confirm the bug you described. It only happens when talking to this NPC right after getting Rinoa out of her room though. After the actual train mission and right before facing Gerogero, the options work as intended. Will fix this very soon, thanks for the info.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: NxK on 2019-04-18 13:31:25
I am currently playing through the latest version of the mod and noticed that Cactuar still has the Stat Bonus abilities. Is that intentional? It seems like an oversight to me since his ability inventory is overcrowded (i.e. one needs to make him forget 5 abilities in order for him to learn everything he is supposed to learn naturally).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-18 16:10:59
Oh, that was an oversight. That's actually a very important thing you've spotted there. Will be fixed as soon as possible, thank you.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: IFireflyl on 2019-04-19 17:22:51
I guess there's still more potential to this battle, like slightly more randomization of attacks, so his pattern becomes less predictable. I'll think about something for the next update, which should release soon.

The other things you said make the battle sound way better than Vanilla, but less predictable attacks would (in my opinion) be a huge improvement for Omega Weapon. Thanks so much for everything you've put into this! I want to replay FFVIII again! ;D
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: NxK on 2019-04-19 18:13:13
Is there still an NPC who can abolish card rules on Disc4? I looked around a fair bit but couldn't find any such person.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-19 20:03:31
No, there isn't such an NPC for disc 4 yet. I'll try to add this function to Joker, but I can't promise if I can get it working, as it seems more difficult than at the other locations.

What you could do in any case is relying on the RNG for you to remove a certain rule from the card players on the Ragnarok, as long as you are able to carry rules to certain players that don't already play them. Check out this link, for example:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197343-final-fantasy-viii/76700194
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-04-20 03:38:31
Just finished disc 2 and it's been a ton of fun so far. I have a few thoughts, but I'll save them for until I finish the entire game to better organize them.

One thing that I do want to mention though was the Cerberus fight. That was probably the hardest fight for me up until this point and man what a fight that was! I thought I was more than prepared for anything (had pretty much full stock of every possible spell so far on my entire party and was a solid lvl60 on squall / 40-ish on my other two members) and he still wiped the floor with me. I ended up having to dedicate both Rinoa and Quistis to full time buff and healing duties just to stay alive. Both tornado and quake would do half of my party's hp even with aero and break junctioned to ele-def and sometimes he would back to back cast them. I felt like I needed protect at all times because of his physical/acid rain and haste/double on both my casters in order to keep up with healing. I tried using shell/float too but opted for just healing through since he kept dispelling and it was too many buffs to try to maintain. Oh, and that acid rain attack has got to be the worst part of the fight. The dispel plus the heavy physical damage of it meant that if it followed a tornado or quake before I could heal, it was likely a KO on one of my casters. Not to mention he really likes to spam it and he's so freaking fast! All in all, very fun fight and even more satisfying once you beat him.

On the other hand, the boss battle right after that felt like a joke in comparison. Maelstrom hurts a lot but she just didn't have the speed to really follow up to make it deadly and I could easily heal up to full before anything happens. The RNG deaths were annoying but nothing I couldn't deal with since once again her slow speed makes it easy to recover.

Also, is triple still available as a drawn spell from enemies at some point in the game since neither Odin or Cerberus has it. You can just tell me a yes or no so I know if I would need to refine it or not.

Edit: In hindsight, I think much of what made the Edea fight easier for me compared to Cerberus was the fact that I had two treatments already by that point and since a lot of her skill set revolved around inflicting status ailments, that kind of trivialized the fight. Gaining an extra Spd-J also really upped my party's survivability since both of my casters had 50+ spd.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: fooli on 2019-04-20 04:28:46
I'm not sure exactly when it happened, but the SeeD Rank salary fix reverted to normal at the beginning of the second disk. Just opened my inventory and i have a quarter million gil, watched the next pay amount and it was like 23k. Edit: It kicked back in after the fight with the Iron Clad in FH, back to 6500. But I now have 1.1 million gil. Uhh.

The Missile Base commander and his two side kicks wiped me twice oddly enough. First time I silenced them all with Siren, then the two mooks started spamming hi potions while the officer had them gang up on whoever was lowest HP. Action economy was seriously busted, it was like they were all hasted. Second time I tried dropping the officer without scanning him, he had a ton of hp I wasn't expecting lol.

Something seemed super wonky with the random encounter rate where you fight the oilboyles. Went through it twice and had at least six random encounters each time just walking across the room. Most of Garden seemed pretty high, Galbadia doesn't need missiles when there are that many bombs running around the halls.

Not sure if it has anything to do with your mod, but the text font occasionally goes back to the original every other letter. Opening the menu usually fixes it.

Been enjoying this run quite a bit as the characters feel distinct. Selphie is seriously MVP so far, she is higher level than squall at the missile base just from how many killing blows she deals. She just murders everything with her limit break and her innate magic stat. However I can't seem to make Zell useful compared to anyone else, and I've yet to get his finisher to show up when Duel-ing. Did the command order get changed? Irvine is kinda in the same boat outside his limit.

What does Angelo's damage scale off of for Rinoa? It seems to be super weak.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-21 04:52:28
@Yuey: Cerberus has been made tougher than other bosses at that point intentionally, as he still casts Double and Triple when summoned, which is very useful for longer battles, and - more importantly - also because he is an optional boss. That's also why the Brothers are harder to defeat than Edea (1st), for example.

Still, the drop in difficulty between Cerberus and Edea (2nd) might be a little too noticable indeed. So I guess a small speed bonus to Edea (2nd) sounds reasonable, as well as increasing the level requirement for Leviathan to learn the second Treatment Ability.

Speed junction bonuses will be further reduced in the next update, probably releasing next week. This will also change Triple availability. At the moment, the earliest methods of aquiring Triple is by finding Three Stars from Chocbo World, by modding the Selphie card, or through High Mag-RF from Alexander a little later. There are only 2 non-regular enemies you can draw it from on disc 3 or 4, so make sure to not miss out on them if you prefer drawing it.


@fooli: I rechecked SeeD rank salary for each rank and found that the value for rank 16 is busted because of a typing error in the ragnarok_mod text file. Thanks a lot, I probably wouldn't have spotted it myself anymore.

The soldiers from the Missile Base boss battle can be tricky indeed, but there are various spells that help dealing with them. For one, the Base Soldiers are very vulnerable to Slow, a spell that should be easily accessible at this point of the game. Quezacotl has a chance of inflicting Slow as well. They can't even cure the status with their Remedies, so it'll definitely help. The Base Leader's HP have been made that high to give the Demi spell an opportunity to shine in a boss fight.

In general, if you feel like being overwhelmed by certain enemies, don't hesitate to try status changing spells. They are sometimes the key for winning battles. This is particularly true for the (in this mod) infamous Esthar Cyborgs as well.

I'm not sure what caused the increased encounter rate at the Oilboyle screen; it's even set to be slightly lower than elsewhere at MD-Levels. Guess I'll just decrease it further, as it can be really annoying to run into a random battle on your way to where the Oilboyles spawn. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Mixed text fonts are definitely not caused by this mod. I know what you mean, and I believe it happens more frequently if you alt-tab out of the game and back in with any font-changing mod active, but not entirely sure what causes it.

Zell's Duel damage can still be high and compete with other characters' Limit Breaks when using certain combos (outside of repeated use of Punch Rush and Booya, known as the "Armageddon Fist" in the base game). Nothing has changed about command order, so you can use this as a guide:

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Duel

Irvine's natural Speed growth will be increased for the next update, so he will be the only character that reaches a high Speed stat without grinding for Speed Up items (only Selphie will come close). Angelo Cannon and Angelo Strike damage is based on Rinoa's Strength, which is rather low naturally, but can be increased with junctions to somewhat decent levels. As a compensation, her Limit Break will trigger a little earlier than that of the characters (40% max HP instead of the usual 30%) and Wishing Star is currently still incredibly powerful.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: fooli on 2019-04-21 11:17:15
Rank 16 is indeed the rank I am at. Can't fix my stupid amount of gil it at this point so I guess I will keep an eye on other ranks too. Don't have Wishing Star for Rinoa yet, but her magic stat has already jumped up over Selphies around lvl 25 or so. Not sure what I am doing wrong with Zell, and a speed boost will make Irvine an excellent mugger ;D

Hope these things aren't coming through as complaints, I am enjoying this mod a great deal and am trying to keep things constructive.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: fooli on 2019-04-23 12:54:58
I can't seem to get the person in the Winhill Hotel to play cards with me.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-23 14:13:26
If you are looking for the Kiros card, then try searching the inn a bit. The card player in question doesn't show up immediately when entering the room and remains hidden until doing a certain action.

Here's a new text file you can use to fix SeeD rank 16 by the way. Put it in RaW/Global/Hext and replace the old text file.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1W7Sey3BTTKiJftInphYeRVY-4aydfWHZ

Didn't get your feedback wrong, no worries :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-04-25 06:15:58
As promised, here are my thoughts and impressions after having gone through the mod once:

Spoiler: show
As a general disclaimer, this is my first time revisiting the game since it first came out on PC back in 2000. As such, do forgive me if I end up mistaking any parts of the original game as part of the mod or vice versa. I did get up to the beginning of disc 3 before restarting over with the mod so I have a good feel for most of the changes up until that point. Everything afterwards however is entirely new to me. I also did my playthrough in its entirety on the 1.1.2 version of the mod.

Characters and Junctions

(For the character discussion part, assume I am talking about Lvl100 characters with no extra stat gains from Devour or Stat Up items.)

Overall, there’s not much to say about junctions. I like how you made it so there’s more of a meaningful trade-off between where you junction high level spells. It’s a small but welcomed change that added a bit of character customization that was much lacking in the original. This combined with the more diverse growth you gave each character made it so that there’s no longer a single, most optimal junction setup for everyone. I enjoyed having to rethink my junctions depending on who was in the party or actually having to give up some offensive power if I needed survivability for a certain fight.

As for characters, I absolutely love the new identities you gave everyone. Really makes each character feel special for gameplay. I had some misgivings early on since I felt like Quistis and Irvine were really lacking compared to their counterparts. Rinoa is the obvious choice for heavy magic damage and Selphie is, in my opinion, the best for support casting due to her speed whereas Quistis didn’t really have any defining features. In a similar vein, Irvine felt like he did no damage compared to Squall or Zell while also not being able to tank like the other two.
 
Ironically, both Quistis and Irvine ended up being the two party members that I managed to beat Omega Weapon with. I don’t know if it was intentional on your part or not, but the two of them really shined end-game. In particular, once you had access to a decent supply of Aura and could utilize Limit Breaks reliably in a fight, I really felt like those two pulled ahead.

For Irvine, early on his biggest issue was his damage output but once you gained access to Aura or Ultima as a junction, you can still cap his Str at Lvl100. Obviously, both Squall and Zell can do it before 100 and with a weaker spell but the potential is still there for Irvine to reach them. As a comparison, neither Quistis nor Selphie can max their Mag stat even with best junction and a Mag+30% allowing Rinoa to maintain her dominance. Then there is Irvine’s limit which I feel is so much more versatile while being comparable in damage over a long fight. Don’t know if a boss is vulnerable to statuses or not? Fire off a bunch of dark ammo to check. High Vit boss and can’t get Vit0 to stick? AP rounds. Low Vit boss? Fast rounds. In addition, he still has decent Vit and Spr (unlike Zell) while having the highest Spd.

Simiarly, Quistis really came to be once you reach the tougher battles. Her higher Hp and Vit compared to Rinoa and Selphie made her a better choice in fights like Ultima or Omega Weapon where the other two simply cannot survive as well without sacrificing extra ability slots. A simple Aura + Mighty Guard to start off a fight before the boss can get anything deadly in can make a huge difference. White Wind is also a straight up counter to many heavy AOE abilities (Megiddo Flame, Ultima, etc) without relying on megaelixirs or multiple casts of Curaga with Shell on.

Now, I don’t really know if anything really needs to be changed and if so, how to go about it. I mainly wanted to share my impression on this aspect that I think was particularly well done in this mod.

Guardian Forces and Abilities

(I’m only going to list the things I feel are worth noting.)

Treatment: My absolute favorite ability (please don’t nerf it). Like you said, a higher level requirement for learning the 2nd one might be warranted. In the end, I had one for each of my main party members. In most cases, it feels just like using an elixir. The heal is usually enough to get whomever back into a healthy enough Hp for Regen to do the rest.

Step-mine: Or as I like to call it, the Cactuar farming ability. Hard to utilize normally. For a time, I put it on my casters but that was before I got Quake or Tornado. My playthrough clocked in at about 80hrs and I think it was doing about 3k at the end. Not too shabby for an AOE, but not really useful either at that point.

Darkside: Still extremely good even after the nerf in this mod. About the only real way most of your physical dealers will do damage outside of Limits. Which makes it most useful in the first half of the game before you get Aura, but also the most dangerous part of the game to use since I feel like monsters and bosses in general tend to hit harder relative to your Hp pool early on. I will elaborate more on this below.

Mad Rush, Defend, Counter, Cover, Return Damage: All still have their situational uses.

Absorb, Renew: These are the two abilities that I feel are still rather useless and could maybe use a buff or some changes. Absorb still doesn’t hit or heal for much even with ignoring Spr. As for Renew, by the time you get Alexander and learn the Ability, you’re pretty much in Esthar and can farm Toramas for Full-Life. Moving it to an earlier GF and giving it a lower AP requirement might help.

(In general, I didn’t make much use of GFs past disc 2 but I can still see their uses, especially for ones like Cerberus, Doomtrain, Bahamut, or Eden. However, I did make use of them extensively during disc 1 and some of disc 2 and that’s where I would like to talk a bit about.)

Quezacotl + Shiva:
I realized early on that GFs were just much better at killing than I was. As a result, for most of disc 1, I would basically just summon Quezacotl, Shiva, and Ifrit (except he never actually gets a turn) at the beginning of every battle and be done with it. Not very engaging I know. However, they summoned nearly instantly with max compatibility (I was playing on max battle speed), didn’t have that long of animations compared to later GFs, and would usually kill the entire group with just 1 summon. So why not? As a result, they massively out-leveled my characters (Quezacotl was almost double my Squall’s level at some point) and had much higher HP compared to my party members. I ended up just using them for boss fights too (they both tanked better than I did and did 2-3 turns worth of my damage in an AOE). X-ATM092, the 2x Cyborgs at Excavation Site, D-Prison fight, and the Missile Base fights were probably made too easy because of this.

Of course, this strat started to lose potency when I started getting better magic to junction and gaining some levels. At some point, bosses and some mobs in general started outright killing my GFs too. A small downgrade in power and Hp for the early levels of these GFs might help.

Cerberus: I was so excited to get this GF, but then he started at level 8 or 9 with 300 compatibility and he has no health in general. I understand why, but I just wanted to rant a bit for this one.  :P

The extra status ailments added to the earlier GFs are a nice little touch.

Monsters and General Playthrough

(I want to preface this by saying that I feel like I might have been overleveled for some parts of the game, especially towards the end of disc 3 and disc 4. In general, I tend to fight most of the random encounters I come across. I would say a good 2/3 of them. However, I did not intentionally stop and grind for exp except for two occasions (one at the deep sea deposit to farm a dark matter from the fixed tri-face encounters and the other in disc 4 before Ultimecia’s Castle to get everyone to 100). If I recall correctly, my main party’s levels were as follows: around 20-ish at the end of disc 1, 40-50 by the end of disc 2, 70-80 before I entered Lunatic Pandora, and 100 before Ultimecia’s Castle.)

Disc 1:

Even though I abused the hell out of GFs during this disc, it was still decently challenging since this is when you have the least amount of options as a player. The hardest fights ended up being the ones where I stubbornly tried to draw full stocks of spells from (who would’ve thought.) Junctions were weak and limited, spells were weak, and physicals were weak.

On the other hand, bosses and enemies weren’t too crazy either. Elvoret in general had me excited for this mod since I couldn’t just auto-attacked him to death like in the original. T-Rexaurs, Wendigos, and Anacondaurs always had me on my toes when I met a group. I didn’t even bother trying to kill an Ochu. Saw one, drew some spells, tried a few attacks and just ran.
 
The highlights were definitely Diablos and the Brothers. Really well-tuned fights in my opinion and I had a blast with both of them. Not much I could add here.

Seifer was probably the biggest letdown. I had Drain junctioned to ST-Atk on my Squall and that was that.  Probably not much you can do for balance since it’s a 1on1 fight. Maybe make him more resistant to drain so you have to rely on other forms of healing as well. Not much to say on Edea. Maybe a bit more Hp for her, since I felt like the fight was over too quickly.

Overall, a very solid start to get the player acquainted with the mod. Not too easy, but not too difficult either.

Disc 2:

This is, in my opinion, the hardest disc (not including a few optional fights) as well as the one I enjoyed the most from a gameplay perspective.

At this point in the game, you started having access to a much greater variety of spells and you actually have to make good use of them in fights. Protect/Shell/Regen basically became a staple for me for boss fights and I had to plan my limited uses of Double carefully. Junctions started to have a more profound effect on my characters and the difference in character growth really started to show. I had to start actively hunting for new/higher level spells. GF management was important as well in order to maximize junction spread and abilities. All in all, I felt like I had to really think and micro-manage my party correctly since fights were getting tougher and that is not a bad thing.

The Ironclad was actually still pretty challenging even with my Quezacotl spam. The second time around was actually easier (though that might make sense story-wise.)

I actually got a game-over from the Tri-face in Balamb Garden and had to start over in the Missile Base.  :-\

NORG felt too easy if you just kept the orbs down. I feel like the fight should still be a bit challenging even if you do the mechanics correctly and be overwhelming if you don’t. Let’s be honest, those mechanics aren’t that hard to figure out even without a guide.

Highlights of the disc this time around were Tonberry King and Cerberus. I already gave my thoughts on Cerberus in an earlier post but I just want to mention that I really enjoy the difficulty of these optional fights.

I ended up doing a lot of exploration on this disc after getting the mobile Garden and went around looking for new spells to draw. Some of the harder fights for me were actually from random encounters I found while doing this. Blue Dragons, Hexadragons, Ruby Dragons, Abyss Worms, and Chimeras all were boss fights by themselves. I met a Malboro too but that was impossible.

Disc 3 (pre-Lunatic Pandora):

So nothing really happened for the first half of this disc, gameplay-wise. I actually farmed up a bunch of spells from the end of the last disc (notably quake and tornado) and basically didn’t get to use them at all only for me to get better spells right after the gameplay starts again (post lunar base.)

The difficulty took a big spike once you could encounter enemies like Behemoths, Iron Giants, and the likes, but once you managed to stock up on all their juicy spells things became a lot easier. Your characters also ended up gaining a pretty big power spike when you suddenly have access to Full-Life, Holy, Flare, and Meteor allowing you to pretty much fill up all your necessary junctions with high stat boosts. Felt pretty jarring coming from disc 2 actually, but I don’t really see a better time to introduce them.

The optional bosses this time around weren’t as exciting. Cactuar and Bahamut both didn’t pose much of a problem. I don’t know if it’s due to the power spike from the new spells or what, but I never felt like I was in any real danger compared to bosses like Diablos or Cerberus. I actually did Ultima Weapon but I want to talk about him a bit later.

Lunatic Pandora + Disc 4:

So this is what I really wanted to talk about when I mentioned how I might have overleveled. Before I go further in-depth, I want to mention that from this point on, every boss encounter (with the sole exception of Omega Weapon) felt very underwhelming.

As I stated before, I entered Lunatic Pandora at around levels 70-80 on my main party. At this point in the game, I pretty much had full stock of every available spell on my 3 main characters (including Aura, Triple, and Ultima.) This is where I am uncertain if I’m simply over-prepared or the balance is too weak. Nonetheless, I want to share my experience and let you make with it as you will.

Fujin, Raijin, Mobile Type 8, Seifer. None of them last more than a few turns of actual damage. I spent more time trying to mug them to see what they have than actually fighting them, if you can even call it a fight. And I think I know what the culprit is: Aura. I suddenly have access to pretty much unlimited Limits during boss fights when before I could hardly use them. Darkside + normal attacks and Double spell spam used to be my bread and butter for damage dealing and fights feel like they lasted an appropriate amount of time as a result. Now my fight opens with Triple + Aura (with expand 3x-1) and simply spamming Limits on my physical dealers while spamming Triple Meteors on my caster. Buffing up only takes at most 1 or 2 turns with Mighty Guard and Triple casts to fill in the rest. Bosses simply don’t have the health to last through that kind of punishment and they didn’t do enough damage to force a defensive style of play.

Adel lasted longer simply because of the nature of the fight.

Needless to say, most of Ultimecia’s minions suffered the same fate. I was level 100 on all my characters at this point (mainly to see what their final stat values looked like.) As I didn’t bother to mug any of the fights, they all ended in 1-2 minutes if even. Tiamat actually died before he got a turn since Squall proc’d a lucky Lionheart. Irvine’s AP rounds took care of Krysta and Red Giant. In the aftermath, from Fujin + Raijin all the way to Ultimecia’s final form, I didn’t drop a single KO on my main party (the other 3 got sucked into time :D)
I feel like a health boost to a majority of these bosses (minus Ultimecia which I feel is solid in length but lacking in damage overall) will go a long way in making them feel more worthwhile and actually getting to see some of their attacks.

And finalllllyyyyy, Ultima and Omega Weapon:

(As a side note, I avoided using the few invincibility items the game gave you to adequately get a feel for the fights.)

Oh boy, these two fights alone probably took me a solid 5-6 hours of attempts. Remember when I said I feel overleveled? Well, not for these guys. As important as I think having the right stats was for these fights (a major reason why I ended up benching Rinoa), it really came down to proper execution which I feel is how a worthwhile boss fight should be designed.

Ultima Weapon had me scratching my head for a long time. I remember reading how you said Light Pillar is now survivable but I just couldn’t figure out how. I ended up beating him once by sheer brute force (and a lot of ressing) but it just didn’t feel good. So I sat down and actually figured out how Light Pillar worked. I was actually approaching it from the complete opposite direction which is one of the reasons why it took so long. After my dumb brain finally figured it out, the fight was like 100x easier. He felt almost like a one-trick pony at this point. Regardless, still a top-notched fight.

Now, after having figured out Light Pillar, I thought Omega was going to be a piece of cake. He shoved my face in the first attempt. Then the attempt after that, and the one after that…and many more after. Now, I haven’t actually done this fight on the original game so I don’t know how it compares but I absolutely loved it on this mod. Best fight. Hands down.

I understand that he is supposed to have a fixed attack pattern in the original and that the mod mixed things up a bit. Incidentally, I actually ended up beating the fight mainly because I ended up noticing a pattern in his attacks. Needless to say, I don’t think this is a flaw but rather well-done on your part to mask it so subtly. After all, I don’t think the fight would be fun at all if it was entirely RNG-based given the nature of his attacks.

Random thoughts

Physical versus Magic:

Overall, I think this actually turned out rather balanced in the end. However, early to mid game I feel like magic casting definitely had the advantage.

For one, it is much easier to take advantage of elemental weaknesses compared to physical which had to be junctioned beforehand. As such, it is much easier to fight normal encounters with magic. Even with bosses, you would need to consult a guide beforehand to find out their weaknesses or wait until a second attempt to redo your junction where all you need is a scan for spell casting.

Once Double became more abundant, I felt casting really pulled away for that period of time. In comparison, physical had Darkside which acts as a pseudo Double. The only difference is that for situations where the enemy doesn’t have that high of defenses, a double cast of a spell will always outdo a capped 2x damage hit. I think removing the damage limit on Darkside will allow physical some much needed viability in the earlier portions of the game while maintaining its uses into the late-game. I don’t see this being too overpowered since there are very few scenarios where you would be able to push Darkside past 20k damage (the point at which it would be stronger than a Double.) And in cases where you can, it’s usually trivial encounters you’re fighting.

Once Triple-Meteors and Aura-Limit spamming becomes a thing, I feel like the two avenues of damage dealing are pretty close in output. So no problems there.

Drawing Limit: The best feature of the mod.  :P

Extra Quests: Really loving them, however minor they might seem. They really add a bit of extra flavor and personal touch to the base game. Would love to see more.

On that note, might I suggest a possible quest related to the little girl on the beach in Dollet? If you talk to her a bit, you find out that her Grandpa is no longer around and her mom has gone missing. I always feel sad when I see her playing alone in the sand. As to what the quest would be about, I have no idea. I’m not very creative, you see.

FINAL THOUGHTS (I promise)

Excellent mod. I rate Chicobo/10.

Seriously though, I had a ton of fun and really appreciate all the work you’ve put into this. I am excited to see what you have in store for the next patch and am even tempted to start up another playthrough with it with limited leveling to see how I feel about the balance that way.

As a last note, I would love to see a separate version of the mod where the main story fights are more akin to some of the optional bosses in terms of difficulty.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Nikito on 2019-04-28 13:50:00
I just obtained Ragnarok, really starting to find use out of Irvine at this point in the game. He is starting to hit a lot harder and his limit break is always useful. Although Squall remains my go to as he is level 92 while the rest are in the 60s. I was wondering where i can get Meteor, Aura and Ultima at this point in the game. Also when do we exactly gain access to Enc-None?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-30 04:32:51
@Yuey: Thank you very much for your detailed report. I have read through all of it, and it was really helpful.

Irvine and Quistis are actually not meant to shine only in the late-game. But in the case of Irvine and his Strength based Limit Break, this is pretty much unavoidable due to physical damage scaling with a character's Strength stat exponentially, meaning that damage output is rather low until a certain Strength threshold, and from thereon increasing rapidly. Magic damage on the other hand doesn't scale with a character's Mag stat that well, as its damage calculation forumla has no exponent in it. Spell base damage is usually higher than that of physical attacks though, which is why spells are superior in the early-mid game, when Strength can't reach very high levels yet (at least not in this mod), which fits perfectly well with what you observed. If you learn Quistis' Blue Magic spells as early as possible (especially Electrocute and Aqua Breath), she can become a very valuable character for the first half of the game as well, so I wouldn't necessarily say she only shines in the late-game.

Other than that, I understand that the late-game balance is still lacking a bit in this mod, and the main reason for that is Aura and Limit Break spamming indeed - and enemies usually don't punish the latter enough when staying low on HP intentionally, just to get permanent access to Limit Breaks. I hope the next version will improve on that, by toning down certain attacks (Wishing Star and Homing Laser come to mind - the latter shouldn't do high damage and ignore enemy Spirit) and by making changes to certain enemies, so players get a chance to actually see some of their special attacks at least once. I'm also thinking of removing and replacing Aura as a spell completely, and just leave the Stones, so it is no longer possible to obtain larger amounts of Aura by drawing it in battle. I guess putting the spell on Ultima Weapon was not limiting enough, so for the next version, it will at least be moved to Omega Weapon and then possibly be completely removed in the version after that. Not sure what to replace the Aura spell with yet, but Aura in its current state needs to be addressed for sure.

Still, I want to avoid making the end-game go overboard with difficulty, so max character levels and top tier spells will be mandatory to beat the game. I've been thinking of creating an alternate, harder version of the mod, as you suggested, but at the moment, it's just a thought. Haven't started working on it yet, but maybe will do soon.

All in all, you've really made some good points. Much appreciated.   

@Nikito: Late disc 3 is a good opportunity to get the spells you are looking for. Meteor can be drawn from Lv40+ Iron Giants around Esthar (they appear very frequently at Tears Point while Lunatic Pandora is hovering above), while Ultima Weapon is your best bet for Aura and Ultima. Farming Energy Crystals from the repeatable Elnoyle encounter in Esthar and then turning them into Ultima using Forbid Mag-RF also works, as usual. Enc-None is learned by Eden, but I might change this to an earlier GF before the new version of this mod releases tomorrow.

Other than that, it's good to hear you found some use in Irvine. Maybe his Speed stat doesn't even need to be increased that much then. At the moment, it is set to peak at 82 on Level 100 (for comparison, Squall's Speed caps at 37 on Level 100), which is already a very high value for Speed, so I fear could be a bit much. Anyway, if you have more questions, let me know.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Mcindus on 2019-04-30 04:44:30
The new release of SeeDReborn v4.0a has your title screen as an option to install. Just wanted to let you know :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-04-30 04:55:41
That's very nice, thank you. I'll check it out soon to see what it is has in store compared to the previous version. Looking incredible from the screens already, and I also heard it allows for window color customization for menus. That would be huge :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-04-30 21:28:53
I'm also thinking of removing and replacing Aura as a spell completely, and just leave the Stones, so it is no longer possible to obtain larger amounts of Aura by drawing it in battle. I guess putting the spell on Ultima Weapon was not limiting enough, so for the next version, it will at least be moved to Omega Weapon and then possibly be completely removed in the version after that. Not sure what to replace the Aura spell with yet, but Aura in its current state needs to be addressed for sure.

The thing with trying to balance Aura is that it is kind of like Hero/Holy War. You either have it or you don't and once you gain access to it, it makes everything much easier. There's not a lot of room in between.

I agree with limiting its availability or quantity, though it kind of sucks to lose out on a potential high tier junction. Putting it on Omega pretty much limits it to the last two fights in the game, which could actually serve as a neat little cue for the player that this is it: the final showdown. :P

As for replacing the spell, what about a physical damage increasing buff? Kind of like berserk but without the loss of control. I feel like physical would be really lacking late-game in the absence of Aura and a spell like this would fill in nicely.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Ai on 2019-05-01 01:13:20
So i just got FF VIII on steam since it was on sale and i wanted to play this particular mod for a while but i have a problem : Rose and wines.

It is required or just an option? Since it seems to be torrent download only and my IPS block any torrents download, i cannot get it.

I hope it's just optional, if not is there any chance for me to get it via other means? If not them i'm probably screwed. :(
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-05-01 03:05:45
Someone provided a mirror to a direct download in the official thread:

https://kalak.dhs.org/
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-01 05:36:52
Version 1.1.3 now out.


Changes Overview


Balance changes


Enemies


Chocobo World

More items have been entirely removed from Chocobo World:

Some of the good items that are still available include: Healing Ring (=100 Curagas), Phoenix Pinion (=100 Firagas), Energy Crystal, Power Generator, Stat Up items.


Ultimate Weapons

The base power of each Ultimate Weapon has been increased. This value works independently from the bonus they add to each character's Strength stat, so a standard physical attack performed with an Ultimate Weapon will always inflict more damage than all the lower tier weapons, even if the character is already at 255 Strength. Note that the increased power from those weapons will affect standard physcial attacks only. Limit Breaks power is excluded from this change and relies solely on a character's Strength stat, as usual.


Universal damage limit removal

The 9999 HP damage limit has been removed for all attacks and the new limit is 60,000 HP, mainly to increase the incentive to use standard physical attacks and GF more often in the late-game. This change includes Gravity based attacks as well, so they are now extremely useful on enemies that have high HP, such as Malboro, Snow Lion or Iron Giants. To prevent Gravity attacks from becoming too powerful overall, it was necessary to make a few more enemies immune to them, or give certain bosses that are vulnerable to it a massive HP boost to compensate for the change.

This, alongside stronger Ultimate Weapons, should also solve the issue in regards to standard physical attacks becoming rather useless in the late-game, as it is now possible to get excellent value out of Darkside, especially in combination with critical hits and abuse of elemental weaknesses. In order to keep the total physical damage output in check, the Darkside Ability is now learned by only one GF, and many late-enemies and bosses have had their stats increased, as stated before. Some more Limit Breaks had to be reduced in power too, as they would do absurd damage with the cap removed, such as Blasting Zone, and most of Zell's Duel finishers.

I'm not sure if I succeeded in balancing out every late-game enemy around this new feature properly, as I haven't really had the time to do so yet. If you find something really off, like doing more than 30,000 HP damage on a certain enemy by using only a single physical attack, please report it here.     

 
Angel Wing

The Angel Wing damage multiplier has been increased from 3 to 4, so using this Limit Break always has an advantage over just casting Triple spells. Furthermore, spell determination no longer depends on what spells Rinoa currently has in her inventory. Instead, the spells she uses are now randomly selected from a set table that consists of only higher tier spells, with different probabilities for each spell.


Summoning Odin

Odin summon mechanics have been changed in a way that he no longer interrupts battles randomly, and is now summoned by using an item instead, to avoid his often unwanted occurrences once and for all. After defeating Odin at Centra Ruins, the player receives 10 units of this new summon item, and 3 more each time Odin's chamber is visited again after all of these items are used up. There is no other way of getting this item, so the maximum amount the player can carry at the same time will always be limited.

The idea behind this change is adding another resource management element to the game, and of course also to make getting Odin more worthwhile. Gilgamesh is not available in this version of mod for now, as I haven't found a way to get these items out of the item menu properly right before the Seifer battle at the end of disc 3. He might return in a later version though.

Important: This change as a whole can cause quirks on game saves in which Odin has already been unlocked. If you wish to use this version of the mod on an older save that has Odin unlocked, I would recommend using the Hyne tool (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=9713.0), go to G-Forces, select the Griever icon and untick Odin from there. Otherwise, Odin will still appear randomly at the beginning of a battle.   


Other changes and bugfixes


Thanks again for all the feedback lately - not only through users on these forums, but also through XeroKynos, who was streaming this mod a while back, which was very helpful in spotting certain late-game imbalances directly. Also huge thanks to Sega Chief, whose Ifrit tool enemy AI fix came in handy, and JWP who came up with an Angel Wing Patch that was necessary to put my ideas into practice. I hope it's a decent, less broken alternative compared to endless Meteor spam :)

@Yuey: I don't think a damage boosting spell in Aura's place is all that necessary anymore, now that the general damage cap has been lifted. I was also thinking about another Water elemental spell, as this particular element is still underrepresented in this mod, due to possible animations being sparse and/or broken when used by own party (the Grand Mantis one, for example). I'll keep your idea in mind though.

@Ai: Roses and Wine W07 is necessary to make a lot of this mod's changes work (everything that comes from the text file), such as drawing more than 9 spell units per Draw in battle, or proper magic damage calculation. I hope Yuey's link will help you getting it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.2)
Post by: Ai on 2019-05-01 05:45:20
Someone provided a mirror to a direct download in the official thread:

https://kalak.dhs.org/

Ah! Nice! Thanks, i should be able to get it working, if not i can always look at some tutorial.

Also, that update came right at the perfect time. :D

Time to actually get challenged by VIII for the first time ever.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-05-01 21:07:57
Those new changes look amazing!

I'm excited to jump in again soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: oksymoron on 2019-05-03 20:31:38
Hello,

@Callisto, Could you perhaps name places where you should be able to get Triple and Ultima? I'm playing your mod and I really hope I didn't miss any of those spells, right now I'm after taking back Rinoa from Sorceress Memorial. I saw that Ultima Weapon has them but come on, getting them from this boss? :) (Obviously not mentioning refining items into magic, mostly talking about Triple since Ultima is only obtainable via refining and Ultima Weapon)

BTW. I really love your mod, before it I completed this game about 20-30 times and it was always oh so easy, with your mod, it's a completely new experience.

P.S.: Since I'm past middle of the game would it be possible for you to edit files from mod version 1.1.2 that would fix the SeeD rank problem at lv 16? I would not like to update to version 1.1.3 since there are pretty substantial changes between those two versions.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-04 01:34:34
Hey oksymoron,

There's actually a quite cheap way to draw free Triples in this mod. If you do all the base game sidequests on disc 3/4, you'll eventually find the enemy that has it. Let me know if you would like a more direct answer, and I'll put in a spoiler tag.

Ultima availabilty is actually unchanged from the base game, so it can be still only drawn from Ultima and Omega Weapon, as usual. If you want it as early as possible, I would recommend doing the fixed Elnoyle encounter in Esthar over and over, then using Forbid Mag-RF to make Ultimas out of the dropped Energy Crystals. The refinement ratio is even slightly more efficient than usual (1-5 instead of 1-3).

Here is a link to the 1.1.2 text file that has the SeeD Rank 16 bug fixed:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1tWpPm_nBaR1f-7Bm6Z6zxkag2F5CVPKA

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, glad you're enjoying the mod :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: oksymoron on 2019-05-04 08:39:52
Thank you very much Callisto, I'm going back to the game with SeeD fix :)

I'll let you know about Triple, Right now I'm in the middle of chocobo quest so I will probably do them all :)

EDIT: Do you have any comprehensive list of added sidequests? Maybe not like what exactly you get from them but something that would lead us to them? Also any changes to existing sidequests?

PS. Just got Triples, clever way to hide it in the game :)

Also got a question, I think it was done in 1.1.3 version but, are effects of Stat Bonus abilities that Cactuar can learn are neglected by the fact that now characters by default get certain stat buffs with every level? Is it even worth bothering with those abilities in 1.1.2?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-06 03:26:41
Ok, so here's a list that contains all the extra things you can do in this mod:

Spoiler: show
SeeD Party *1
Before heading to Fire Cavern, make sure to visit Balamb Garden's Quad. Exhaust Selphie's dialogue until she asks about joining the Garden Festival committee. If you agree, you will receive two items from her during the SeeD party later. If you skip this step, you still have the chance to join the committee during the party, but then you will only receive one item instead of two.

Fire Cavern time limits *1
The time limits for completing the SeeD test at Fire Cavern have been restructured, and it is now possible to choose 5 minutes, which yields a special reward when exiting the cave after defeating Ifrit.

The Cafeteria Lady and her lost son *1
Listen to the Cafteria Lady's full dialogue at Balamb Garden's Cafeteria before heading to Timber on disc 1. Later on disc 2, this will make her son appear near the station in Fisherman's Horizon after the boss battle against BGH251F2. Talk to Mayor Dobe when he is sitting on the floor, then exit the screen and re-enter. The Cafeteria Lady's son should have appeared to the left now. Talk to him before the FH concert starts (the last chance is when controlling Irvine) and pick the correct answer while Squall wonders who he is to receive an item.

Helping the guards in Timber *1
When having the chance to fully explore Timber for the first time, make sure to stop by the Town's Gate near the inn. As in the original game, this triggers a discussion between Galbadian Soldiers and Timber Soldiers, but this time, intervening and battling the G-Soldiers will be rewarded.

Dollet Communication Tower revisited *2
Heading back to the Communication Tower after the SeeD mission on disc 1 triggers a non-escapable battle against a X-ATM092 variant that uses a different AI script and attacks (it would normally just fall down a cliff and that's it). The battle will likely be tough when attempting it at first occasion, as he starts nuking the party with strong AoE's if the battle takes too long. It should be easily doable on disc 2 or 3 though.

Galbadia Hotel *2
After each stay at Galbadia Hotel in Deling City (at an increased price), the player receives one out of eight items randomly with equal probability. One of the items is the Magical Lamp, in case the player missed the first opportunity to get one by talking to Cid before heading to Timber on disc 1. Additional Magical Lamps can also be traded in for a random Stat Up or an Elixir at FH Seaside Station much later in the game (after the Lunar Cry event).

The old couple in Deling City *2
Talk to the old man sitting at the bench near the sewer gates. He will complain about losing all his good cards to the old woman nearby and about losing a card pack somewhere in the city. If you manage to find it, you will have the option to pick up the cards for yourself or keep the bundle to give it back to its owner (I would recommend the latter, as this unlocks the old man as a card player as well). This can be done anytime before the point of no return at the end of disc 3. The possible rewards for this quest are as follows:

- 9 monster cards if you take the bundle's contents for yourself
- 3 boss cards or 6,000 Gil if you decide to give it back to the old man

The monster hunter from Winhill *1
The counter that keeps track of the defeated enemies during Laguna's patrol in Winhill now actually matters and is used to determine an item that Laguna receives from Raine at the very end of the flashback. The item can be anything from a few Potions all the way up to a Megalixir that requires at least 30 defeated enemies (v1.1.3 only).

More items in Fisherman's Horizon *1
Talk to the man near the elevator when controlling Irvine after leaving the concert preparations. After the concert is over, talk to him again with Irvine in your party, and he will apologize for what he said earlier, handing out a Triple Triad card.

Rescuing the girl in Timber *1
On disc 2 or 3, return to the Timber station and rescue the girl that is cowering on the floor from the arriving train. As in the original game, you will end up at Timber Hotel, but this time, your SeeD Rank increases and you will receive an item.

Trading in Trabia Garden *2
There is one NPC in Trabia Garden who sells some of her belongings as her savings have been destroyed as a result of the missile attack. The player can use this opportunity to get good value for just 20,000 Gil: 2 boss cards and 3 different items. Buying or creating these items separately would be much more expensive.

The dog in Esthar *2
Stop the dog running around the streets in Esthar to make him return to his owner nearby. If you then talk to the owner while having Pet Pals Vol.3 in your inventory, you have the option to give it to him for free for an item, or sell it to him for 15,000 Gil. If you don't have it in your inventory, he will hint at it. Can be done anytime before entering Lunatic Pandora as Zell and Edea.

The reluctant card player at Lunar Gate *1
Challenge the right guard to a card game repeatedly until he agress, then play a game. He will hand over some items for having a good time, no matter if the actual game was won or lost. This can be done two times: before going to space, and then once more after the Lunar Cry event. Items received are different for the two occasions.

Rescuing the girl at Esthar's Shopping Mall *2
Talking to the crying girl at the Shopping Mall will trigger a non-escapable and unique battle with 2 Behemoths in it. The reward is an item and a card. Can be done after Lunar Cry only.

Lunatic Pandora Laboratory research project *2
After the Lunar Cry events, Esthar digs out its old mobile weapons and tries to improve them. At Lunatic Pandora Laboratory, the player has the option to try 3 different battles that consist of stronger variants of Gespers, Cyborgs and Elastoids. The battles can be repeated multiple times for no costs, but the rewards are one-time only.

Fire Cavern revisited *2
After the Lunar Cry events, Zell will inform Squall about Fire Cavern having become a nesting ground for a couple of monsters from the moon, and the player can decide to clear them, with a puzzle-like boss battle waiting at the end, where Ifrit was fought at the beginning of the game. The reward is a rare item that is required to get one of the best weapons (v1.1.3 only).

Getting back to the Ragnarok on disc 4 *1
Nothing has changed in regards to how the Ragnarok can be found on disc 4. The only difference is that Xu will hand over a bunch of items when entering the Ragnarok on disc 4 for the first time, to aid the party in their final battles.


*1 = Quest is already present in the base game, but has been changed to yield some real rewards
*2 = Completely new, mod-only sidequest


As for changes to already existing sidequests, the Queen of Cards sidequest is worth mentioning:

Spoiler: show
Instead of the Minimog card, you need to lose the Quezacotl card to the Card Queen. This creates the Kiros card, which can then be found at Winhill Inn. Second, instead of the Sacred Card, the Card Queen now requests the Pandemona card. This will create the Irvine card, which can still be won from Flo in Fisherman's Horizon. The rest of the quest remains the same as in the base game.


Other than that, it's just the rewards that have been changed. I hope completing all the Chocobo Forests will be worth your trouble :)

Cactuar's Stat Bonus Abilities aren't supposed to be available from version 1.1.2 onwards, as their presence can still limit the incentive to level up, and getting rid of these also helps with maintaining character identity throughout the entire game. All in all, it was an oversight to keep them for Cactuar, so I would recommend just deleting them using Amnesia Greens. This also frees up space for some of the new Abilities he can learn in this mod.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: oksymoron on 2019-05-06 14:27:21
Thank you Callisto, the list of added quests is massive in comparison to existing quests, well done, I think I missed most of the Disc1/2 quests. but that will make me do another playthrough, now with 1.1.3 :)

Really nice mod and everything you did was perfect, the balance is right and I can now not only use attack like in the original but magic (which I still used in the original but felt like it's not as powerful as it should be). Overall, I will do another playthough with no hesitation.

Gotta ask you as well, can you give me the "not-precise" location of Zell Card? Mama Ditch doesn't have it and I read that it's one of the cards that you tinkered with :) Is it still in Balamb or maybe I should look somewhere else? (I have a feeling it's connected to Zell's "Girlfriend" :))
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-07 04:21:53
Yes, the Zell card is still in Balamb, and it can be found anytime during disc 3 (while having access to Balamb), until the point of no return inside Lunatic Pandora.

Spoiler: show
It doesn't even matter how many of the library conversations the player has seen - the event at Balamb Hotel can always be triggered by talking to a woman that appears at Balamb entrance on disc 3, then talking to Ma Dincht, and then finally staying at the hotel with Zell in your party. The library visits only determine how much of the dialogue between Zell and the pigtail girl can be followed, and won't have an impact on the rewards at all.

All in all, the Zell card location was changed to give this particular sidequest a little more meaning, and also because I wanted to keep the Card Mod result (Hyper Wrist), which fits quite well, but just doesn't belong into the early-game, as early access to Strength+60% (30% in this mod, which is still good) is one of the most game-breaking elements in the base game.


Otherwise, thanks for the kind words, very encouraging :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-05-09 07:14:14
Though I wanted to distance myself from FF8 after my very involved playthrough with probably dozens of pages of feedback on the mod, still couldn't help but keep an eye on this thread and the mod's development, and I have to say - it's almost unreal reading through your latest big update. I don't know if my rantings had any impact on what was to come but somehow once again you've managed to magically address just about every possible problem and/or improvement idea that ever came to my mind as I was playing. I seriously don't recall a single thing I commented on that hasn't been either fixed or improved. Ragnarok truly has become my dream-come-true version of the game, and I seriously can't wait to find the time to dive into it again. And maybe this time with less headache from trying to force a low level game, although I see you've already rectified the problems with that as well. Omega might still be undoable with a low level party though due to megiddo flame, lol.   

Thinking back, I never got back to you with regards to my final feedback and the final boss conversation, I suppose I moved on to other things in such a hurry that I never got to finish those thoughts, regrettably - I can no longer remember what I wanted to say. Something regarding the balance/difficulty side of things for sure though, considering the unusually dire conditions I beat the boss in, haha.

Anyhow super awesome to see you still perfecting the beat, as it were. Thanks for your continued support of the mod and making it the best it can be. The definitive version of FF8. 
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-09 22:58:41
Hey, and welcome back.

While many of the points you made were already on my list back then, it was indeed your feedback that made me push some of the changes for the latest version, even though some of the results are different from what was initially planned. Maybe you remember me saying that I would like to keep the Stat Bonus Abilities until I find a replacement for them (some entirely new Abilities), but after thinking about what you said few times, I came to the conclusion that it's better to just remove them, even if there's no proper replacement for them yet.

The same can be said about Odin; it became more and more obvious that the mechanics are in need of a change, so he would no longer appear randomly at the beginning of battle without the player having a chance to stop this, resulting in forced EXP or missed opportunities to get a certain item from an enemy. The initial idea was to implement an option to toggle Odin on or off, but since I have never found a way to access the Odin variable through Deling Field editor, I came up with the item idea, which I think is a somewhat decent solution as well, even though if it means sacrificing Gilgamesh (for now).

So all in all, your feedback at least pushed me to find alternate, easier to implement solutions for various issues. Again, thanks for that, and also for your latest post in general. While this mod has evolved by quite a bit during the last couple of months, I still think there's room for improvement. For example, there's still the Aura spell, which is just toxic to this game's balance, and therefore should be replaced with a new spell, leaving just the rare Aura Stones, as said above. Other than that, using Darkside with max Strength, and hitting a major elemental weakness can now do tremendous amounts of damage to certain enemies, and sometimes negates any need for using spells and even Limit Breaks. Both issues will be addressed in a smaller update releasing soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Ayoyo on 2019-05-10 07:41:49
Glad to hear.

Yea I really like how you got around the Odin situation, reinforcing the theme of meaningfully limited resources, as I liked to think about it. It feels appropriate in the context of the mod. Aww, poor Gilgamesh, what a shame. I'll truly miss you randomly interrupting a tense lategame bossfight in order to deal 1k damage to them.

I do remember being in favor of even more heavily restricting Aura, to the point where it becomes a super limited external resource with a set number of stones that can be acquired in the game rather than a spell that can be drawn&junctioned. I think I had a supply of around a dozen for the ultimecia castle and I enjoyed the thought of having to ration and carefully select the times of use so much that I imposed the restriction on myself even though I did have a full stack of Auras from UW, so I didn't allow myself to use it via magic. Really cool to see you've been steering the mod in that direction.

Just talking about balance in terms of damage output, different abilities and whatnot gets me so excited man. It was one of the best things in the mod, seeing how different strategies measured up against each other and fighting bosses over and over using all the different tools at my disposal. And it was exciting precisely because you had balanced it so well, in my opinion. I imagine you lifting the damage cap just cranked the whole thing up to 11, I'm gonna have so much fun when I manage to get into this. But even without playing, it does indeed sound like Darkside has just become the most convenient way of delivering the hurts against enemies with elemental weaknesses. Why bother with limits, GF's and others when you can just attack and deal a similar amount of damage? Good idea to only have 1 darkside in the game. I don't think I ever commented on that but I did find it weird when there were multiple. At least now you have to make a choice. Well, I'm blabbing again and this time without even playing. My God.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-11 05:22:55
Yes, the Aura spell will be replaced soon, that much is certain. It should never be possible to gain such a powerful tool in masses, even if it's from an end-game super boss-like Ultima or Omega Weapon. I think the status in itself is comparable to Invincibilty in terms of value (if not even better) and there isn't a spell that grants Invincibility either, so I guess removing Aura as a spell would be adequate and help with balancing the late-game out.

As for the Aura replacement, I'll have to drop the idea for a high-level Water spell for now, as there aren't any animations that are entirely bug-free and compatible with Double/Triple at the same time. Will probably go with a strong support spell for the late-game instead, like one that combines the effects of Protect, Shell and Regen. Any other ideas, also in regards to spell name, feel free to share.

Darkside has become very powerful with the damage cap removed indeed. It feels a bit weird to finally have a way to inflict high and fast damage, without having to resort to spells and Limit Breaks, which often come with longer animations. I personally like it though, and I think the late-game needed that. But as said before, a few bosses take too much damage from it, due to having a major elemental weakness. A Bomb easily takes 60,000 HP with one hit, when being at max Strength and having Blizzaga junctioned to Elem-Atk, which I think is fine for minor enemies in general, but if you suddenly do 40,000 HP damage to one certain phase of the final battle, something is off and needs to be addressed. At the moment, I'm trying to make it so that 30,000 HP is the maximum damage that can be inflicted with Darkside on late bosses, which is about in line with the total damage that can be caused by a spell under Triple.

Anyway, progress is going well, so the Aura replacement and Darkside adjustments will be included soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-05-13 19:51:47
That new Fire Caverns boss fight.  :-D

I don't know what I was expecting but a bomb boss fight was definitely not it. I actually laughed out loud when I saw it pop out of the crater.

Spoiler: show
Was it an oversight to have Lvl Down work on it though? I killed it with a different method but I'm still not sure if it is the intended way to go about it or not.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-14 01:18:28
Well, at the moment, it's not possible to add entirely new enemies to the game, so I thought why not creating unique versions of already existing enemies, just like a Bomb on steroids ;D

Spoiler: show
The intended methods for defeating this boss are as follows:

1. By equipping the Return Damage Ability before battle, keeping defenses low intentionally to take more damage, and letting the Bomb slowly kill itself by acting passively throughout the entire battle.

2. By trying to get the Sleep or Stop status to stick on the Bomb (which can be difficult because of its high Vitality and Spirit in this battle), then keep using attacks that ignore defense until the Bomb dies.

3. By using Irvine's Armor Shot with close to maxed out Strength and enforcing Crisis Level 4, which is just enough to kill the Bomb with one attack.

Using LV Down does not belong to the intended methods. Will make it immune to it, thanks.

Which method did you use by the way?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-05-14 02:02:11
Spoiler: show
I used #1 after realizing that it would only heal when I used an action against it.

My initial reaction was actually Kamikaze, which would've been rather ironic if it worked.


By the way, it might be good to have a save point before the boss. Those mandatory fights beforehand take a while and it wouldn't be fair to expect someone to figure out the boss on the 1st try.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-14 03:58:16
Spoiler: show
Kamikaze is quite an interesting idea and might even work if it crits, and while user is at 9999 HP. I'll check that out.


Alright, will try to add a save possibility there, right before heading to the crater.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-05-19 20:46:34
I don't know if this is a bug or a mechanic that I'm missing but Tiamat currently gets stuck at 0 Hp and doesn't actually die.

EDIT: You added Vengeance to Omega?! Now that's just mean.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-20 01:33:12
Sorry, the Tiamat thing was a bug. Here's a fix:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=159nfhB5FCJzalFpUo1iazJ1OPSiGiPm5

Drag to lang-en and replace old battle files to fix it. Thank you very much.

Omega Weapon can use this attack at two specific turns only, not anytime he wants. Let me know if it's too much and if you managed to defeat it regardless :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Divatox on 2019-05-20 02:08:00
hey there, first of all i need to say WOW to your work man  8-) 8-)
and sorry for the question, but i saw something about the second time into the fire cavern, do you made the Zell speach and changed the monsters? And a new boss?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-05-20 02:15:25
Thanks for the quick fix!

I'll have to give Omega more attempts another day though. Tried a couple today hoping to not get a death since I couldn't unlock resurrection with Tiamat bugged. My last attempt was going pretty smooth but got unlucky when he casted an Ultima right after Terra Break before I could get a turn to heal. Turn order feels really tight now since I'm assuming he's skipping less compared to the last version. I'm loving the challenge though.  :-P
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-20 02:38:42
@Divatox: Yes, it's a small extra sidequest that has been added for version 1.1.3.

It can be done after returning from space, and Zell will automatically mention it inside Ragnarok, to inform the player about it. There are 6 custom enemy encounters in total, and at the end, a custom Bomb boss battle can be attempted (it is recommended to save the game outside Fire Cavern before heading to the crater where Ifrit was once fought, as there's currently no save possibility right before this battle). 

It primarily serves as an opportunity to obtain an otherwise rare item that is required to get Zell's best weapon, and of course was also added for a little entertainment :)


@Yuey: Well observed. In fact, Omega Weapon's turn skip probability has been reduced to 0 for the latest version. In previous versions, it was 20%, which I thought is still too high for the strongest enemy in the game. Vengeance is a bit mean indeed, but then again, it can't touch your Auto-Abilities, such as Auto-Protect or Auto-Haste. Well, I hope you'll manage to defeat it next time.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Divatox on 2019-05-20 03:47:27
that is awesome dude  ;D ;D
how do you made this new event and boss? if may i ask.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-20 05:39:32
Cactilio for creating all the custom battles; Deling to call for them and setting variables in regards to quest availability condition, repeat prevention etc; and Ifrit to create a battle specific AI script for Bomb (if battle = 1022, do this and that).

The hardest and most time consuming part is the work in Deling, as you need to learn that script language and use it yourself to put own ideas into practice. If you are really interested, you could start by comparing the non-modded Fire Cavern fields with the ones from this mod, to see what the differences are in detail (most changes are in the Director script). Always create backups in any case though, as things can be messed up easily if you are not familiar with changing field scripts.

Other information, for example about field variables, unused enemy encounter IDs, main story progress variables etc are helpful too. You can get a lot of this information from here:

https://wiki.ffrtt.ru/index.php/FF8
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Divatox on 2019-05-20 14:44:29
Thank you so much ^^
i asked because i only modded the usual game, didn´t put new battles
and with IFRIT when i tried to edit some enemies in the AI, in game the grafics became a big mess =/
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-05-23 01:37:23
Just finished another playthrough!

Had a ton of fun this time around as well. Plenty of great quality of life and misc changes in this version but for this post I mainly want to give my thoughts on some of the major changes and other notable points I came across during this playthrough.

Spoiler: show

Ultimecia’s Castle
Not having full stacks of Aura going into disc 4 this time around made for a vastly different experience. That plus the fact that you seemed to have touched up on most if not all of the bosses here has turned this into a worthy final dungeon in my opinion. I enjoyed all the fights and was even pleasantly surprised by a few of them. Trauma and Tiamat gave me a few game-overs that I wasn’t expecting and the fight with Ulimecia got dicey at a few points. All in all, I really enjoyed revisiting this part of the game after finding it really easy last time.

Oh, and I think Catoblepas’s Deadly Horn ability might be bugged. I have never seen it actually land a hit. I redid the battle a second time and he still missed every one he threw out.

General thoughts
The absolute highlight of this version has to be the buff to the ultimate weapons and the damage cap removal. Standard attacks hit noticeably harder now and doesn’t feel like a waste to use anymore. Darkside has become such a beast of an ability in the late-game as well. Funnily enough, I would’ve never imagined myself using Berserk as much as I did, but it’s amazingly good.

Limits, however, still maintain their dominance as the best way to deal damage (as they should be) but they’re no longer easily spammable without consequences. As a result, they actually feel special and exciting when you do get to use them.

I also ended up utilizing Bahamut and Eden much more than I did last time around.  I think they already broke the damage limit before but I just didn’t have the incentive to level and use them as much as I do now. It feels like you’ve really nailed a good balance for all the different avenues of dealing damage. Kudos.

Darkside
This might be a bit contentious but I would like to see a second Darkside being available. As it stands right now, there are mainly two ways to maximize physical’s damage potential: Darkside or Berserk. And as much as I made use of Berserk, I’m actually not a fan of the way it works. It’s very costly to lose control of a character and it’s something that I hesitate to use on tough battles because of that. More importantly, I feel like the loss of control goes directly against the essence of a turn-based RPG where being able to plan and react with your command abilities is a large part of the enjoyment.

In addition, I feel like a second Darkside would allow party compositions of two (or even three) physical attackers to be more viable. Right now, if you run two physical attackers you would want to run Darkside on one of them and Berserk on the other. I feel like being able to run two Darksides in this setup would lead to a more enjoyable and healthier gameplay experience. Now, if you want to run a party of three physical attackers (and I don’t see why this should be discouraged), the most optimal way to go about it would be to have two of them berserked and that just feels wrong and degenerative.

Berserk (and Mad Rush by extension) is great for plowing through regular battles but I don’t think relying on such a mechanic for boss fights should be encouraged. If necessary, I think nerfing Darkside a bit or making its health cost higher would be a fair trade to be able to have a second one.

Angel Wing
I usually don’t like using Angel Wing for the same reasons I don’t like Berserk. However, I think the new implementation of it is worse than the previous version from a pure damage perspective, even if the way it works is fundamentally better.

The reason I say this is because there is really only one reason why you would want to use an ability like Angel Wing in the first place: to do more damage per turn than you normally would without it. Otherwise, there’d be no point to give up control of your character. And I don’t think it accomplishes that currently.

I tried using it on a few occasions during this playthrough and I came across the same problems every time:

  • There are too many low level spells. The –ga spells, Pain, Water just doesn’t feel good when you get them. Yes, they still hurt but when you only get Meteor or Flare like once every 6-8 casts you start to wonder if you shouldn’t just triple cast them instead. I'm not 100% sure how the numbers compare but it doesn't feel like Angel Wing pulls ahead even without taking into account point #2.
  • If a boss has any elemental properties, Angel Wing falls behind pretty handily. Boss has a weakness? You’re almost guaranteed to do more damage just manual triple casting the targeted weakness every turn. And obviously, if they are strong to or absorb any element(s), your total damage can go down drastically or even into the negatives (I tried it on Omega to much amusement.)

I firmly believe that you should limit the spell pool to the non-elemental damage spells. I think that even if you lower the coefficient back to 3 but take away all the elemental spells, it would still be better than the current iteration. By the point when you unlock Angel Wing, you pretty much would never cast spells below Flare or Holy for damage anyways unless it’s to target a weakness.

Wall/Invincibility
I decided to try using Selphie more after neglecting her last time around. I never realized Wall gave Invincibility but I feel like the skill (and the buff) is a little cheap in general. As for the skill itself, I actually feel like it is better than Invincible Moon in its original form. While it might seem difficult to reliably count on Slots to keep the buff up, it’s actually pretty easy to pull off in practice by just doing it in long animation sequences like summons or certain Limits.

Now, I think the bigger issue I have with it lies in the Invincibility buff itself. I really dislike the idea of being able to avoid a fight mechanic completely. Ways to mitigate it, yes, but to completely negate a mechanic feels like it’s almost cheating the fight. Even heavily limiting its availability (as in the case of Hero/Holy War) doesn’t diminish its binary nature. It’s the kind of mechanic that either trivializes a fight if used or doesn’t have any value at all.

I would like to say that this is simply something that I don’t personally like. I think that it is completely fine as it is, with how limited you can use it, to keep it as an option for the player to choose to use or not.  With that said, if you do decide to change it, I think making it work as a damage reduction that stacks on top of Protect/Shell might be an option to keep it strong but not overly cheap.

Vit0
This is another rather minor issue that I have with Vit0’s current functionality much like with Invincibility. Vit0 was one of the more broken mechanics back in the original game and I think it’s actually in a really good spot balance-wise in this mod. This is basically something that I would like to see improved but I don’t think it is a big deal.

The issue I have with it is that it’s an all or nothing mechanic (like Invincibility and Aura.) In order to balance around this, you either have to make a boss have that much more health if they are susceptible to make up for the damage increase or you make it have such a low chance of applying that it might as well be immune. So the choice becomes: Is boss immune? If yes, then the mechanic is useless. If no, then you have a situation where there could be two wildly different experiences for the same fight. For example, if you set the chance to apply to be high, then obviously the boss has to be balanced around having Vit0 on. If the chance to apply is set to be extremely low to counteract its strength, then there could be a case where one player manages to apply it early on in a fight and have a much easier time compared to someone else who didn’t (even if they were casting meltdown the entire time.) This not only makes it difficult for the person doing the balancing but it also isn’t very enjoyable for the player to spend an entire battle trying to cast meltdown and having it not work.

If such a functionality can be implemented, I would love to see the status get a rework to be less potent but have an easier time applying. Maybe something like 50% or 25% reduced Vit/Spr with a limited duration so one would need to constantly reapply it in order to take advantage of the damage increase.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-05-26 08:48:55
Thanks again for your input, much appreciated.

Spoiler: show
I rechecked Catoblepas' Deadly Horn to make sure, and it sometimes even hit Irvine who had the highest Evade stat in my party (14%, which is already a high number for Evade in this game), so I guess you were just "unlucky" to not get hit by it. Its hit rate is lower than a regular physical attack, and has been already increased for the mod, but well, it should be fine to increase it by a few more points, so its potential will be seen more often.

As for a second Darkside ability, I'm not sure if it would be healthy to the physical vs magical damage balance. Physical damage output is actually in a good spot right now, due to Irvine's increased critical hit rate that comes from his weapons, Squall's R1 trigger, and Zell's high base Strength. When I run a party of all 3 of them, I usually put Darkside on Squall, attack with Irvine normally, getting quite many critical hits, and sometimes cast Berserk on Zell, and that feels quite satisfying most of the time. I would rather increase the newly introduced Ultimate Weapon bonus for Zell to push physical damage a little more - a second Darkside would be likely be too powerful, especially if you know about enemy weaknesses.

In regards to Angel Wing, I mostly agree with the points you made - I just wouldn't classify the -ga spells as low-level spells, and I don't think it's necessary that Angel Wing always beats Triple spells in terms of pure damage, as Angel Wing has the added bonus of not consuming spells from inventory and also shorter animations. Other than that, I realized that elemental spells are being used too often indeed, which limits its usefulness against quite many enemies. At the moment, the chance of Rinoa casting an elemental spell under Angel Wing is even 75%. This is not exactly what was planned and will be reduced to ~40% very soon. I don't want to remove them entirely, as the number of non-elemental spells is quite low in this game; it would be boring if she used only Meltdown, Flare, Meteor and Ultima. Also because elemental spells can hit an enemy's weakness, which can be quite satisfying as well (for example, when getting Holy against Griever).

Changing the way Invincibility and Vit 0 work would not be an easy thing to do, but I'll keep your ideas in mind for later. Would really love that too.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Yuey on 2019-05-26 19:45:20
That's fair enough. I can see your points.

Anyways, I want to take this opportunity to thank you again for all the work you've put in and still continuing to do on making this amazing mod. I can't speak for anyone else but I had an absolute blast with my two playthroughs. I'm really glad I decided to revisit the game again after all this time and for accidentally stumbling upon your mod because I don't think I would've had as enjoyable of an experience as I did otherwise. I'll be looking forward to seeing what you have in store for future versions. Cheers!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Shrike on 2019-06-01 11:45:24
Hi.
I ran into a problem in the Cerberus battle. It hits Selphie with a move called Autodefense and then the battle stops (atb freezes). This has occurred four times now. Any way to work around it?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-06-01 17:13:28
Oh, I accidentally used a wrong kernel file as part of the latest Tiamat fix, sorry. This would happen against some other enemies as well. Good that you mentioned it.

Here's a quick fix:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CYhTtEpVovLuktd-FSo1uM1RFs_p5lV6

Copy paste the 3 files to lang-en and replace the old ones to fix the issue.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Shrike on 2019-06-02 01:14:40
That worked, thank you.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Murasame on 2019-06-19 08:04:03
Hey is there any way to update to the newest version of the mid mid way through a play through?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-06-19 17:28:25
Yes, you could update to the latest version by redownloading the mod package from the opening post, and go through all the steps again, as if the mod was installed for the first time.

There would be only a few things to take care of in regards to compatibility with saves from older versions:

- if Odin was already unlocked in one of the previous versions, he would still randomly appear at the beginning of battles. If that's the case, I would recommend disabling Odin by using Hyne Save editor (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=9713.0) to prevent him from appearing, as in the newest version, Odin is summoned by using an item instead.

- there might be something strange in GF Ability lists, like "Tool-RF, required AP: 53/30". This is because some of the Abilities have been changed or swapped around in the latest version and can be easily fixed by selecting the Ability, then doing a battle. The issue will auto-correct itself afterwards, and the Ability in question will be fully learned.

You could also just send me your save game and I would adjust it for you, but I think it's better to wait until the next version of this mod releases within the next couple of days.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Binnon on 2019-06-20 16:19:43
I just downloaded the Mod and verified it was installed correctly (I started out with magic on Squall and was able to draw Double in the library). The issue I'm having is that the game freezes once I try to enter the world map. I can play up until I meet up with Quistis at the front gate and when I try to zone into the world map to make my way to the fire cavern the game freezes and then crashes. Any ideas on how to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. If this has been mentioned already I apologize; I don't know how to navigate through these posts very well.

UPDATE:
Just realized I made a mistake by replacing the Lang-en folder entirely so I was missing the world files (including some "magic" documents). So now I'm able to load the world map.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: DiscoCokkroach on 2019-06-20 20:26:38
Hey, Callisto. I heard about Ragnarok from XeroKynos, and knew I had to download it right away and try it out. I am thoroughly enjoying the mod, and I'll probably post the majority of my thoughts after I'm done my playthrough. While I'm here, though:

Oh, and good to hear that a new version is coming out soon! Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Murasame on 2019-06-21 11:56:57
Yes, you could update to the latest version by redownloading the mod package from the opening post, and go through all the steps again, as if the mod was installed for the first time.

There would be only a few things to take care of in regards to compatibility with saves from older versions:

- if Odin was already unlocked in one of the previous versions, he would still randomly appear at the beginning of battles. If that's the case, I would recommend disabling Odin by using Hyne Save editor (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=9713.0) to prevent him from appearing, as in the newest version, Odin is summoned by using an item instead.

- there might be something strange in GF Ability lists, like "Tool-RF, required AP: 53/30". This is because some of the Abilities have been changed or swapped around in the latest version and can be easily fixed by selecting the Ability, then doing a battle. The issue will auto-correct itself afterwards, and the Ability in question will be fully learned.

You could also just send me your save game and I would adjust it for you, but I think it's better to wait until the next version of this mod releases within the next couple of days.

I appreciate the offer, I won't trouble you though. I'll just go ahead and download the current one now and get the newer version when it's out. Glad to know there won't be any trouble though. Thank you!

Loving the mod by the way. I’ve hit a few walls against bosses (I’m doing a semi- selfish magic run in combination with the play through) and I’m loving the challenge.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.3)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-06-23 18:03:19
Version 1.1.4 now available


Changes Overview

New spell: Renew

The Aura spell has been replaced with a new spell called Renew that casts Protect, Shell and Regen on one character. It can be drawn from a boss at the end of disc 3 and can be refined from Barriers and Shaman Stones using Supt-Mag RF.  As for junctions, it works very well on HP, Vitality, Spirit and Elem-Def and is generally a good substitute for Holy, which doesn't necessarily needs to be junctioned anymore, and therefore can now be used more freely in battles. Having a spell that combines the effects of Protect, Shell and Regen also helps with freeing up space in the spell inventory, as these 3 spells now become pretty redundant once Renew has been obtained. To avoid confusion, Alexander's Renew Ability has been renamed to its default name, Revive. Note that Aura Stones are still available, but as rare as usual.


Boss changes

Several bosses have had their AI changed, use new attacks or have their stats altered to avoid Darkside inflicting too much damage on them:


Other changes


@Binnon: Glad you figured out what was going on. You are not the first one who accidentally did this. I'll update the installation instructions to prevent this from happening in the future.

@DiscoCokkroach: Yes, the music change was intentional as I thought "Never Look Back" plays one screen too early on the way to the new boss encounter. Good to hear you are enjoying the mod overall. I hope XeroKynos' latest video won't discourage you from playing, because of his rough battle against the soldiers at Missile Base. Maybe I should emphasize more clearly that leveling up is actually helpful in this mod (besides looking for new spells every now and then) - it would have definitely helped.

@Murasame: Thank you. Whenever you are of the impression that certain battles are too tough or unfair, let me know.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Kael on 2019-06-25 21:06:39
Great mod so far! Congrats for trying to rebalance this flawed game! Just checking your mod, and I found some things that need rebalancing.

I am currently in DISC 2, in D-District Prison. So far:

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-06-26 01:16:12
Thanks for your input. I will probably do some smaller adjustments to the bosses you mentioned. Here are some tips against them:

Gerogero: Yes, I know he can hit hard, especially if the player missed drawing Protect and Shell from Granaldo, which is why Protect and Shell Stones have been recently added to the Forest Owls shop that can be accessed right before heading to the boss (Rinoa will mention it). If you use these Stones moments before the start of the second phase, cast Cure on Gerogero repeatedly (preferably with Selphie, who has the highest base Mag stat out of the three; if you have some Doubles left, that helps too), and remove Gerogeros status effects, you should be in a reasonable spot, even with less ideal junctions and rather low levels.

Brothers: They have been made that strong as they are optional, but it's actually a pretty manageable fight, depending on which spells the party has received up until that point. Zombie should do for HP, which can be refined from the Zombie Powders Gerogero dropped, and can be also drawn from Blood Souls near Galbadia Garden or near the Tomb in night-time areas on the world map. Aero is a good spell on Str and Mag at this point and can be drawn from Thrust Aevis that appears almost everywhere near Timber and Deling City. The player should also have Protect by now (if not, it can be drawn from Armadodo inside the Tomb), which helps mitigating most of the Brothers' attacks, and if junctioned to Vit, Sacred's Confuse shouldn't proc all that often. A newly added secondary attack for Sacred further alleviates the issue of falling victim to Confuse. In battle, it is highly advisable to defeat Sacred (the bigger one) first, as he has less HP than Minotaur and their Mad Cow Special attack will no longer be used after one of them has been defeated. As for own damage output, Aero, Bio or Demi should all do good damage on the Brothers, especially when used with high Mag characters. Haste is actually not all that useful for this battle, as Protect wears off faster then. I would limit positive status effects to Protect and Float for this battle, as anything else just takes too much time to maintain.

Prison boss battle: It's mostly all about taking out the Elite Soldier as fast as possible, as the fight becomes noticably easier once he is gone (the GIM52As will stop using Ray-Bomb and no longer counter with it occasionally, and can no longer be healed or buffed). Using Bio in conjunction with Double is probably the most reliable way to do so. Slow on the Elite Solider is very useful as well and should work most of the time (use your highest Mag character for this task). If he uses an Aura Stone on one of the GIM52As (he would do that in the original game too, as well as casting Meltdown), the status can be removed conveniently with their own Dispel spells. Vit 0 can be nasty, but it should be ok to just ignore the status as long as Protect and Shell are up. If your junctions aren't that great, get Water and Bio from Chimera, Regen from the Guards, Berserk from the Wendigos and Life from the GIM47Ns. Levels should be around 20-25 for this boss battle.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: DiscoCokkroach on 2019-06-26 23:40:28
Question about updating the mod: Do I need to run Roses and Wine again after putting the files into the lang-en folder, or can I just move on to putting the Ragnarok_mod.txt into the Hext folder?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-06-27 00:51:33
There's no need to set up Roses and Wine again, as long as you are on W07. So it's enough to just swap the old text file with the latest one and update your lang-en folder.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Divatox on 2019-06-30 20:48:59
How do you changed the AI without messing the game graphics? (sorry i dont remember if i asked you this)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-07-06 04:23:36
Small update to v1.1.4:

Thanks to Kael for bringing up the first 3 points. I especially agree in the case of Gerogero's general damage output, which was a little too high if the party has nothing better than Cure on HP (which is perfectly normal at this point). As for the other two bosses, the changes probably don't change all that much, but in combination with up-to-date spells and prioritizing targets, it should go well.


@ Divatox: I have sent you a PM and listed some enemies that should be safe to edit using the Ifrit tool, as they mostly appear alone (exceptions in brackets), without the need of manual hex editing, which can be complicated indeed if you have never hex-edited something before. In case you missed this list, here it is again:

Spoiler: show
- Behemoth (can appear together with an Imp in Esthar City)
- Chimera (can appear alongside Fastitocalon-F in Ultimecia's Castle)
- Ruby Dragon (with the exception of a Forest encounter on the Centra continent with an additional Blitz, and one at Deep Sea Research Center where the pillar is)
- Elnoyle
- Slapper
- Hexadragon (with the exception of one encounter in Ultimecia's Castle)
- Malboro
- Tri-Face
- Cactuar (with the exception of two encounters in Ultimecia's Castle)
- Tonberry
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Divatox on 2019-07-07 06:22:45
Ok thank you <3
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Dark_Ansem on 2019-07-22 11:22:11
Have you considered making some spells such as Holy or GF like Bahamut multi-hit?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-07-24 05:07:27
Yes, I've tried increasing the number of hits for several spell besides Meteor - it didn't work, though.

But even without that change, spells and GF can be quite useful even as single-hit, as there is no 9,999 HP damage limit in this mod. Holy, for example, can inflict more than 9,999 HP easily on enemies that are weak to it (like Tri-Face, or Griever) and Bahamut can do up to ~35,000 HP on any enemy, depending on Bahamut's level and Abilities learned.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Dark_Ansem on 2019-07-24 10:35:47
Yes, I've tried increasing the number of hits for several spell besides Meteor - it didn't work, though.

But even without that change, spells and GF can be quite useful even as single-hit, as there is no 9,999 HP damage limit in this mod. Holy, for example, can inflict more than 9,999 HP easily on enemies that are weak to it (like Tri-Face, or Griever) and Bahamut can do up to ~35,000 HP on any enemy, depending on Bahamut's level and Abilities learned.

Sad :( I wonder why it didn't work?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Divatox on 2019-07-26 07:06:58
How do you made the file to the magic draw be 100 at each draw?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-07-26 15:35:17
@Dark_Ansem: There is a byte for each spell that contains the number of hits, and it's set to 1 for every spell other than Meteor (10). Changing that byte to anything greater than 1 just doesn't have any effect in battle, unfortunately. Might be related to spell animation data, which is not easy to get access to, but this is just a wild guess.

@Divatox: Draw amounts aren't always 100 in this mod, but implementing this feature should be no problem. Do you have Roses and Wine W07 installed? If so, then download this text file (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1z-iqBto2yZn-aqZBYpawQG1XK_gR5W3K) and put it under Steam/steamapps/common/FINAL FANTASY VIII/RaW/GLOBAL/Hext, and see how it goes (remember to set each Draw Resist value to 0 using Doomtrain tool, as with this setting, Draws can still fail if Magic stats are too low).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Divatox on 2019-07-26 17:02:49
The code worked  8) 8)
Thanks you very much Callisto
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Quinn212 on 2019-08-06 06:10:06
Hello, this Mod looks amazing. RaW worked perfectly and the lang-en files also worked. However I'm having trouble finding out the places to put Ragnarok_Mod.txt. I've put the text file in the RaW folder and also in the FFVIII folder with no luck. The draw point in the Library still has Esuna in it. This is my first time modding so im lost and embarrassed to be asking for help.  I'm using the steam version if it matters.

Edit: Nevermind, The Global and Hext folders are in the RaW file. I Should have looked more closely to what I was doing.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Murasame on 2019-08-09 08:30:27
Any tips for Marlboros? I try to junction Berserk, Confuse, Esuna and Sleep to my ST DEF which gives me 90% resistance but his bad breath still seems to stick all of the ailments regardless. Quistis with initiative and degenerator is unreliable. I’m really only trying to get the tentacles for doomtrain but with his low encounter rate and bad breath it’s making for a bit of frustration.  His encounter rate seems higher on ICTH compared to Grandidi forest but I don’t know if it’s confirmation bias.

Edit: I forgot about the amethysts! I got a back attack on one of them just now and used one of those and got a delicious 8 tentacles!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-08-09 15:04:30
Reflect instead of Esuna would have given you 100% immunity, but I agree that Bad Breath's status infliction rate is too high on anything lower than 100%, which is mainly due to Malboro's very high Magic stat on Level 100. Sorry for the inconvenience, it will be lowered soon so 80-90% should work as well. There' also a Ribbon you can win as a sidequest reward at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory by the way.

Quinn212, glad you got the issue solved. Have fun, and feel free to share any impressions you have.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Divatox on 2019-08-10 06:07:07
Callisto do you think is possible create a HEX file (. TXT) to show the full HP from the enemies? and not ??????
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: gunner_1207 on 2019-08-11 22:20:54
@Dark_Ansem: There is a byte for each spell that contains the number of hits, and it's set to 1 for every spell other than Meteor (10). Changing that byte to anything greater than 1 just doesn't have any effect in battle, unfortunately. Might be related to spell animation data, which is not easy to get access to, but this is just a wild guess.

@Divatox: Draw amounts aren't always 100 in this mod, but implementing this feature should be no problem. Do you have Roses and Wine W07 installed? If so, then download this text file (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1z-iqBto2yZn-aqZBYpawQG1XK_gR5W3K) and put it under Steam/steamapps/common/FINAL FANTASY VIII/RaW/GLOBAL/Hext, and see how it goes (remember to set each Draw Resist value to 0 using Doomtrain tool, as with this setting, Draws can still fail if Magic stats are too low).

Callisto you my man are a legend, i have been trying for ages to write a draw formula with absolutely zero succes. i have used yours THANK YOU. :) :D
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Rainku on 2019-08-12 22:19:16
Hey Callisto!

Love this mod, it's really made the game a whole lot better. The vanilla game was extremely unbalanced and broken. This mod has done some serious fixing to those issues! It's so cool! Everything is useful now! I love it! ;D

Just a quick question if I may. I'm kinda stuck at the moment with the brothers GF fight. I use double, protect, float and haste mainly to avoid their mad cow special and to prevent them from healing.. but as soon as protect wears off and they get attacks in and kill someone, I find it becomes almost impossible to get back into the fight. As soon as I start healing, I pretty much just get stuck into healing everyone until I die. Of course it would be easier if I can kill one of them ASAP, but I just seem to be stuck on what to do at the moment.

Any guide or tips on how to beat them?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-08-13 01:47:16
@Divatox: You mean the HP shown when using Scan on an enemy, right? I had a look at it, and it seems the HP will always appear in question marks whenever enemy HP exceed 99,999. I have tried to remove that limit, but the maximum number of digits that can be displayed are 5, so any HP higher than 99,999 won't display correctly as they have their first digit cut off. Example: If an enemy has 120,000 HP, it shows 20,000 HP when using Scan. Unfortunately, I don't know how to make it show more than 5 digits, but others might know, so I would advise asking on the Scripting and Reverse Engineering board.

@gunner_1207: Glad it was useful, thank you.
 
@Rainku: Before attempting the Brothers, make sure to have HP-J available for everyone, and junction at least Zombie to HP, which can be drawn from Blood Souls near Galbadia Garden or Tomb of the Unknown King. The spell can also be refined from Zombie Powders that were dropped by Gerogero.

As for Vitality, junction Protect (can be drawn from Armadodo inside the Tomb) or Esuna (can be drawn from Vysage that appears outside the Tomb in night-time areas) for the characters that have access to Vit-J, to reduce the damage of their physical attacks and also the chance of getting confused.

In battle, start with casting Double, Protect and Float on your party (in that order), cut Haste (as otherwise positive status effects will wear off too fast) and after stabilizing, go for Sacred first by casting Float on him and start attacking with Aero, Bio or Demi. If you have the Diablos card, and are willing to mod it, you can also use Gravity Bombs on them to great effect. After Sacred has been defeated, no more Mad Cow Special attacks will be used, but if Minotaur is alone, he will use Mower more often than before, so make sure to always have Protect up.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Rainku on 2019-08-13 03:46:29

@Rainku: Before attempting the Brothers, make sure to have HP-J available for everyone, and junction at least Zombie to HP, which can be drawn from Blood Souls near Galbadia Garden or Tomb of the Unknown King. The spell can also be refined from Zombie Powders that were dropped by Gerogero.

As for Vitality, junction Protect (can be drawn from Armadodo inside the Tomb) or Esuna (can be drawn from Vysage that appears outside the Tomb in night-time areas) for the characters that have access to Vit-J, to reduce the damage of their physical attacks and also the chance of getting confused.

In battle, start with casting Double, Protect and Float on your party (in that order), cut Haste (as otherwise positive status effects will wear off too fast) and after stabilizing, go for Sacred first by casting Float on him and start attacking with Aero, Bio or Demi. If you have the Diablos card, and are willing to mod it, you can also use Gravity Bombs on them to great effect. After Sacred has been defeated, no more Mad Cow Special attacks will be used, but if Minotaur is alone, he will use Mower more often than before, so make sure to always have Protect up.

I think my main problem was Haste taking my Protect away too fast. I got him in the end by making sure everyone was Curing each other until stabilized before I did Demi or Aero attacks on Sacred. It was just the moment float and protect wore off and my party wasn't fully healed yet at the moment, causing the brothers to do insane amounts of damage before I even had a turn. But junctioning Zombie and more Protects helped. Thanks for the advice!

On another note, I got Diablos a little later than what I was suppose to in this mod I think.. Since he was surprisingly easy to fight.. It would've benefited me having his abilities earlier on. Loving this mod so far! I also love what you did with the side quests and the rewards etc.. Feels a lot more worthwhile how you have to earn everything.. Also cool how I was able to gain access to the items needed for upgrading everyone's weapons early on. Thanks again for the mod, it's really cool so far. Feels like the game was meant to be played this way.

 

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Murasame on 2019-08-13 17:43:00
Can you confirm where I can find dragon skins in this mod? I have everyone except Zell’s weapon fully upgraded. Dunno if I was getting unlucky with the Anacondaurs or if it’s been switched around.

As for my thoughts so far. I am approaching the end of disc 3 now and I just beat Mobile type 8 and, although I admittedly took him on with two of my lesser powerful characters (Selphie and Quistis; both of which had still been keeping up with current party levels), I thoroughly enjoyed fighting it.  It’s been so long since I actually felt so involved in the boss fights in this game that it took me back so many years when I was a kid and used to work so hard to beat these battles. I have to thank you because this mod has honestly rekindled my love for this game and let me experience it as if it was new I am genuinely worried and preparing myself for Ultimecia, a feeling that I’m sure the original game hoped to instil upon its players,
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-08-15 17:57:15
@Murasame: Dragon Skins are still dropped from high-leveled (LV40+ for most enemies in this mod) Anacondaurs that can always be encountered on the mountains surrounding Dollet, where the Communication Tower is located. Blue Dragons have them too, in larger quantities, but they usually appear only rarely at their designated locations (Trabia Snow Forests, Island Closest to Hell, Steam Room in Deep Sea Research Center), so I would recommend going for the Anacondaurs.

Well, I hope the rest of the game will provide a decent challenge, thank you for the kind words.

@Rainku: Yes, Diablos hasn't been made all that hard on purpose, to ensure the third HP-J Ability can be accessed without much hassle. If Selphie manages to Draw Cast a few Demis on him, it will make things considerably easier, and it helps to not heal HP and status effects immediately, to have access to Limit Breaks. But I guess you already figured that out.

Also good to hear you've managed to defeat the Brothers. The next few upcoming battles shouldn't be as tough, but if you look for a challenge similar to the Brothers, there is a new extra boss battle in Dollet. It should be very hard with the limited Junction possibilities on Disc 1, but will likely be very doable on Disc 2 and onwards. Anyway, hope you're having fun; feel free to report back with any impressions you have.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Murasame on 2019-08-16 13:41:53
Thank you for the dragon skin advice! I guess I had not had them at a high enough level before.

Regarding Krysta, its Auto Defense skill seems to soft lock the game? I was left unable to do anything. No damage value or visible effect to my characters.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-08-16 15:10:09
That skill is supposed to be just Krysta's normal physical attack. When creating some new enemy attacks, I got a few of them mixed up, and forgot to update Krysta's moveset. Sorry.

Use this to replace your battle files under lang-en, it will fix the issue:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=12-ni3SZGp8h-6R3DXhsew9TbkFUWwRCy
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: calderax on 2019-08-17 14:27:21
Hey man,

so far i really like the changes you made (although a documentation of the changes in the card game you made would be great... i robbed the black galbadia guy of a hundred cards or so before i realized that MAYBE he doesnt have it). but now i am at the second edea fight and... i am really frustrated and at the edge of just throwing the towel, so i apologize if i strike too harsh of a tone. i dont think that this fight is balanced, but maybe i am missing something (also very possible).

my first gripe is seifer in the edea fight. the 30something k life he has... why? its a watered down version of the first fight, you already beat him, yet we have to chew through his HP again before we can tackle the real challange. it feels unnecessary and gets old really quick.

then edea... i have no idea how shes possible without a large amount of pure luck. i bring her to around 10k hp pretty consistently but then it goes downhill EVERY goddamn time. maelstrom, maelstrom, ebon wave. quick succession, no possibility for me to recover. maybe it would be possible if the slow effect wasnt there, but it penetrates my 70% resistance without exception. i'm around 4.7k hp on my highest and 3.2k hp on my lowest char. i think i dont do enough damage... like only 700 to 1000 physical with irvine and squall. but i have no idea how to push that.

do you have any ideas on how i could proceed? what am i doing wrong? i could train my chars to lvl 60, but that can hardly be what youre trying to achieve with the mod, or is it?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Quinn212 on 2019-08-17 19:25:31
2nd Edea fight is brutal. Even at full health with everyone near 4k after a mealstorm I still end up in yellow health and then its a quick game over. Any advice on that fight?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-08-17 22:24:03
Level 60 is not required to defeat Edea, 35-40 should be enough. It helps to have a few Mega Potions to recover more quickly from Maelstrom, which is always her first attack, and also some Full-lifes from previous one-time Draw Points. As for junctions, try to have at least Regen on HP, Pain on Strength or Magic, and Meltdown on Vitality or Spirit. If you can't find Pain, check out the Tri-Faces that appear in G-Garden Hall.

Other advice:

- Seifer is weak to the Poison element, so if you double cast Bio and junction Bio to the Elem-Atk of your physical attackers, defeating him shouldn't take too long (if you don't have Bio, draw it from Tri-Faces).

- Before finishing Seifer off, it is advisable to prematurely cast all protective spells you would like to benefit from against Edea (most importantly Double and Shell).

- Use the Treatment Ability from Siren and Leviathan to heal status effects and HP at the same time.

- Blocking the Slow effect from Maelstrom requires 100% protection against Slow, which can be achieved by junctioning 100 Slows and Reflects in Status Defense.

- Ebon Wave is Water elemental, so having Water junctioned to Elemental Defense helps mitigating its damage, while Ice magic helps against Blizzaga.

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-18 00:16:12
Callisto!

  I don't want to gush, but let me take a moment to compliment you on this mod. I recently finished my second time playing through Ragnarok, and I love just about everything you've done. Rebalance is a perfect word to describe it.
  It is far more challenging, but is never overwhelming. There were times when the difficulty took me by surprise (like those damned Esthar cyborgs in the Laguna dream) but no challenge ever felt cheap.
  I'm particularly impressed with how well you nerfed the card modding. You didn't make the cards worthless, but eliminated all the classic shortcuts to becoming OP.
  I also really appreciated all of the extra scripted battles. I only wish the game presented good opportunities for even more...
 
 I was just beginning to make plans for a similar type of mod, but you've done such a great job, I don't feel the need to try reinventing the wheel. I'm truly impressed with all the hard work.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: calderax on 2019-08-18 10:49:17
- Ebon Wave is Water elemental, so having Water junctioned to Elemental Defense helps mitigating its damage, while Ice magic helps against Blizzaga.

ohhh, that could actually help a lot! stupid i didnt think of that, thanks!! i only protected against ice. see, i knew i was doing something wrong :D

EDIT: so yeah, junctioned water into my ele defence and kicked her ass first try. with that little change the fight was challenging, but never unfair. unlikely to be beaten first try, but third or fourth. just the right amount!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Quinn212 on 2019-08-19 04:52:48
Yep, junctioned Slow into status def and water into elemental and I beat her. It was a bit of a challenge because of the cvontant healing and rebuffs but I had a lot of fun. Having a lot of fun and cant wait to get the Ragnarok and do all the side quests!

I did realize while in Galbadia Garden I forgot to get Leviathan from Norg and that really bummed me out since I'm missing a Status Defense junction on Rinoa :(
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Quinn212 on 2019-08-21 20:48:17
It's Side questing time before Lunatic Pandora! I already picked up Cactuar and now I'm working on Tonberry. I did try out Fire Cavern and got ganked pretty hard by the 2nd set of enemies so i'm looking forward to doing that a little later.

Having tons of fun, but I'm admittedly a little worried about going against Adel since she's pretty rough in Vanilla FF8. Also did you make it so Odin never appears? I got him before going to Trabia and he's never appeared. I imagine you might have done this so he wont show up for the Seifer battle.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-08-22 05:47:47
Adel actually hasn't been changed all that much. You should be able to survive long enough with good Spirit stats, as she mostly casts spells. She even casts Meteor less frequently than in the base game (as it was always used so often by enemies in the late-game). The main difference is that it's way more difficult to keep Rinoa alive, so have an eye on her HP and the damage she takes from Adel's Drains, and also try to steal her item if you have the time - it's something else than usual.

Odin no longer appears randomly in this mod, and is instead summoned by using the Amethysts he gave to you after defeating him. Whenever you run out of these items, you can revisit his chamber to receive a few more. Using this item, you can also skip most of the new battles inside Fire Cavern, to approach the boss more easily. As for Odin showing up for the Seifer battle, it's deactivated at the moment, so there's no possibility of getting Gilgamesh, but this will be changed in the next version coming soon.

Anyway, thanks for reporting back and letting me know how the second Edea battle went, also to calderax.

@Percival: Thank you for the comment. I like the idea of adding more extra encounters as well. At least one new battle consisting of 3 unique Adamantoises will be added soon. Interesting work on your Succession Mod by the way. I hope that someday I'll have the time to check this one out, as well as Martial Law.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Quinn212 on 2019-08-22 21:45:49
The bomb boss was interesting to say the least, I did have to go back in this thread to find out how to beat him and i'm glad I did, no way I would have thought to go passive on him, I was thinking it was some sort of endurance fight and I had to wait until protect/shell wore off.

Right now I'm in the mountain area near Trabia (the one you first visited as Laguna) Trying to kill the Ruby Dragon. It still does Dragon Breath even with a KO'd party member. I made it so Squall and Zell have a high tolerance against the Pain status Ailments, made Rinoa immune against Zombie and stuck Revive and Treatment on her. I do pretty well until it eventually throws out Ultima or Dragon Breath and wipes us.

Gonna see what's in store for me at the location Bahamut is in, then off to Lunatic Pandora unless i'm forgetting anything?

Also where Would I find the items for Squall's Lionheart and Zell's Ultimate weapon?

And last question reguarding Ultimecia. Do you still have to exhaust all of her dialouge before she'll actually die? Because in FF8 vanilla you could take her health down to 0 Thanks to Lionheart and AP shot, but she wouldn't die until she was done talking, or is this not an issue because of the increased difficulty?

Having A LOT of fun, do you plan on making this mod work on the PC version of the remaster? I'm planning on getting it and waiting for the background textures to get fixed by modders and if Ragnarok could also be applied I would be in Heaven.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-08-23 21:22:37
The difficulty level of the Ruby Dragon at Trabia Canyon is supposed to be on par with Ultima Weapon, so quite a bit of preparation is needed, especially getting all the end-game spells that become available after returning from space (Holy, Flare, Meteor, Ultima, Full-life etc). Keeping the Zombie status has an advantage for the second phase, which will activate once the Ruby Dragon's HP fall below 50%. Zombie also reduces the damage of the Breath attack, but of course, you'll need to find a way to heal your Zombie characters.

Before going to Lunatic Pandora, make sure to visit Lunatic Pandora Laboratory near Esthar on the overworld, if you haven't already. There is a new little sidequest that will help you get some rare items.

The materials for Lionheart are similar to the original version, but Moonstones are required instead of Dragon Fangs. You can steal these most easily from Toramas that appear everywhere near Esthar after the Lunar Cry. Zell's Ehrgeiz requires 1 Phoenix Spirit (dropped from the Bomb in Fire Cavern), 4 Dragon Skins (dropped from LV40+ Anacondaurs that always appear on the mountains surrounding Dollet), 2 Inferno Fangs that can be stolen from Ruby Dragons.

Nothing has changed about Ultimecia's last words yet.

Not sure about porting the mod to the Remaster yet. We need more info on the new file structure first. But I'm positive there will be a way.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: calderax on 2019-08-24 10:19:31
Hey man,

so i finished the game a few days ago (i didnt know about fire cave, lunatic pandora lab etc. so i cant give feedback on that. sounds like it could've shaved off quite a big junk of farming time though   :D) and want to give some feedback.

i really liked the overwhelming majority of the changes you made to the game. you made it more challenging and therefor, at least for me, more fun. I was never a fan of FF8 (i really despise the characters and the story) but you gave it a breath of new life and made me sink about 60 hours into your mod. so all in all very well done. a bit more in detail:

• i REALLY like the additional save points you introduced before challenging fights. especially after a long time since the last save point.
• removing the cap on draw is the single best change you did. made the game so much better.
• your spell progression and availability felt really good. the way you gated tier 1, 2 and 3 spells is nicely done. i was stoked when i got my first -ga spells and extatic when i got the first endgame spells like flare or meteor (peed my pants a little when i drew 60 ultima from ultima weapon in one draw lol)
• thank you for getting rid of the horrible limit abuse! or at least for making it risky/costly to pull off in boss fights
• odines shop for tier 2 spells feels very well executed
• most enemies seem fairly balanced
• fixed enemy levels kinda forces you to train up your characters. nice!
• im sure theres more but i cant remember. if i didnt mention it in my negative comments i propably liked it

that being said, there are a few things that i either didnt like or that (in my mind) need serious balancing.

• i didnt like the changes to the card queens quest you made. not because they made it inconvenient or anything, but because there is no official documentation about it and people (like me) might follow the card game guide, therefor wasting a lot of time doing the first steps of the quest wrong. also the swap of the zell card to later. i strongly feel these changes are unncessary. you neutered the card rewards anyways, so i dont see the point in delaying the aquisition as well.
• magic is wildly overpowered. by the end squall was my hardest hitting character with 255 strength. normal hits with him did around 7 to 11k damage depending on ele weakness, sometimes a bit more. i perma used darkside with him amping up the damage by a lot to sometimes 20 22k per hit. the most ideal scenario was a vit 0 t-rexaur with blizzaga junctioned and a darkside hit. that one hit the damage cap of 60k 2 or 3 times. ... in come selphie and rinoa with triple and meteor blasting fools away with consistent 60 to 90k PER ROUND. seriously, the second i had access to those spells i dumped zells useless ass for selphie and first tried every single encounter for the rest of the game. ultima weapon? died in minutes. ultimecias minions? attacked maybe 2 or 3 times. ultimecia herself? wasnt even close. now, it should be noted the i farmed up 2 more auto-hastes and auto-protes which helped immensly but the critique stands. magic is way too powerful.
• i didnt kill omega weapon because it seemed way too overpowered. i only did like 4 or 5 tries though so it wasnt really testing. it ended the same everytime though with vengence and megido flame back to back with no time to recover in between, even triple hasted. maybe i was doing it wrong, maybe not. i wasnt in the modd to test the fight further though.
• i dont know if you changed that already, but the krysta auto-attack sof lock was in the version i was playing. you prob. fixed that already

i want to say all in all the mod improves the game SO much. thank you for all your hard work, i enjoyed playing it. the single best thing you could do is draft a proper documentation of the changes you made.

calderax
well, thanks again!
calderax
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Quinn212 on 2019-08-28 06:45:32
Just got to Ultemecias castle when I remembered something that I wanted to let you know. When going to Get Odin and you've just pressed the blue orb thing that activate the stairs that lead up to where Odin is.  There is a forced battle against 2 Chimeras. This fight can be skipped if you activate the stairs then run to the ladder and get on it before squall says "Monsters?" If you do that then go back to the world map and save after skipping that encounter you get like 16 minutes to easily get Odin.

Not sure if you knew of that exploit or not but I wanted to let you know.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Quinn212 on 2019-08-29 06:42:49
Fighting Krysta in Ultamecias castle and it hits me with "Autodefense" and soft locks the game. I saw that you posted a link with a fix for this bug but the link has expired.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-08-29 08:45:26
@calderax: Thank you very much for the feedback.

As for the changes made to the Queen of Cards sidequest, I understand your frustration in regards to trying to get the Kiros card from the usual card player in Deling City. I thought it would be helpful to make the Queen of Cards give more information about requested and newly created cards whenever she is in Dollet, but I guess these hints are still too well hidden, so a documentation that covers moved cards, items and spells will soon follow. The reward for the Zell card is still Hyper Wrists by the way. In the case of the Kiros card, yes, Aegis Amulets are quite a downgrade from Accelerators, but for disc 1, having access to 3 Eva-J Abilities is a little too good, so I guess it's fine to leave card holders as they currently are.

Triple Meteor is still quite strong in the late-game indeed, despite Meteor being among the few spells that weren't actually buffed for the mod. I'll look for a way to balance it out by either lowering its base power, make it land less hits or adjust enemy Spirit stats accordingly.

Against Omega Weapon, it helps to reduce battle speed to the lowest or second-lowest setting, and have Speed stats of at least 60. That way, there should always be enough time to react to Omega Weapon's attacks. Other than that, Auto-Protect is very useful, as he occasionally uses an attack that removes most positive status effects. Furthermore, he isn't immune to Vit 0, but highly resistant, so casting Meltdown probably won't do it - Quistis' Ray Bomb can inflict Vit 0 as well with 100% accuracy, as long as the target isn't immune to it. If you see Omega Weapon using Gravija, that's still the sign for using the Defend command to nullify the damage of the incoming Terra Break attack. As for attacking the enemy, I would recommend having Irvine in your team and use Pulse Ammo whenever possible.


@Quinn: Having the possibility to skip the extra encounter at Centra Ruins was not intended. I had a look at it and apparently unit control wasn't entirely disabled when examining the blue orb, which allowed walking around while the textbox is still being displayed. That will be fixed soon. Good catch, thank you very much.

I rechecked the link to the Krysta fix, and didn't have any problems downloading it. Maybe just give it another go, and report back if the problem persists:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=12-ni3SZGp8h-6R3DXhsew9TbkFUWwRCy

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Robgatti on 2019-09-06 00:24:52
Hey @Callisto any idea if or maybe when this could be applied to the remaster?

Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-09-06 16:28:02
It seems Field files have changed fundamentally in structure, so Deling Field editor can no longer handle them correctly. Furthermore, the .exe is also no longer present in its previous form, making a quick port to the Remastered version nearly impossible.

I guess we have to wait and see if tools will be updated to be fully compatible with the Remastered version before any of the mods will be playable again. This will probably take a while, so give it at least several more weeks.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Robgatti on 2019-09-06 17:39:26
No worries, I was just curious.

Only reason I prefer the remaster sadly is how easy the controller configuration is, no need for mods or button image mods and what not.

Good luck to you and whomever else is working on the remaster!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: nesadi on 2019-09-08 14:01:20
Is it just me or does the game no longer respect ATB on wait anymore after installing this mod?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-09-08 20:03:41
@Robgatti: Thank you. I hope everything will go well, and there will eventually be mods for the Remastered version.

@nesadi: Are you fighting the Brothers? They can perform two moves in a row (Auto heal + another attack), so it can lead to the assumption that ATB settings are ignored, but it has always been that way. Furthermore, the ATB bar will go on while selecting targets regardless of having it set to Wait, which is also normal (it's on this mod's to-do list though). Some enemies also use counter-attacks, further contributing to the assumption that something might be off. It really isn't though. 
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: THESQUALL93!! on 2019-09-18 01:16:50
Hi, Callisto really love what you've done with this mod. I'll probably never go back to vanilla after this play through. I don't know if this is from the mod or not but the game has crashed on me multiple times, i'm on the Ragnarok after saving Rinoa. The game crashes randomly during the propagator fights.  squall will go to attack the enemy and the game will freeze up and I have to alt f4 to close the game. it only seems to happen AFTER  i load a save from death. I'm on windows 10 and running all the mods from the lunatic pandora's installer. Again this mod is amazing I love that you don't have to avoid fighting until end game to make leveling feel worthwhile, and the draw cap being removed should've been in the base game. Keep up the great work i'll post again if i'm able to get past this current segment.   
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: THESQUALL93!! on 2019-09-18 17:40:28
Hi, Callisto really love what you've done with this mod. I'll probably never go back to vanilla after this play through. I don't know if this is from the mod or not but the game has crashed on me multiple times, i'm on the Ragnarok after saving Rinoa. The game crashes randomly during the propagator fights.  squall will go to attack the enemy and the game will freeze up and I have to alt f4 to close the game. it only seems to happen AFTER  i load a save from death. I'm on windows 10 and running all the mods from the lunatic pandora's installer. Again this mod is amazing I love that you don't have to avoid fighting until end game to make leveling feel worthwhile, and the draw cap being removed should've been in the base game. Keep up the great work i'll post again if i'm able to get past this current segment.   

I was able to beat them and get past it, definitely only happened when i reloaded after a death tho. I was able to save in between each pair and was fine, loved what you did with those fights you actually have to pay attention to their weaknesses. Also is squall supposed to be doing over 10k dmg with darkside and having the enemy elemental weakness on his weapon? Squall is in his mid 60's levels wise. Im excited to fight bahamut. :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-09-19 21:27:12
Hey Squall93,

I re-checked Propagators with only this mod and SeeD Reborn installed, including getting Game Overs and reloading, but couldn't reproduce the issue. So it's probably something else causing this.

As for the high Darkside damage, especially when hitting an elemental weakness, I think 10k per hit is ok on the Propagators (it's around the same as what Rinoa can do with Double -aga spells at this point). Even though they are now immune to Death and Odin, I wanted to leave a few options to get rid of them quickly, since you have to fight so many of them. Most other late-game bosses will have higher Vitality and of course much more HP than the Propagators, so if you fear that Darkside will break your remaining game, it won't, since there's only one Darkside copy in this mod anyway.

Well, I hope the late-game won't disappoint. Feel free to share any further impressions :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: THESQUALL93!! on 2019-09-20 01:12:10
Hey Squall93,

I re-checked Propagators with only this mod and SeeD Reborn installed, including getting Game Overs and reloading, but couldn't reproduce the issue. So it's probably something else causing this.

As for the high Darkside damage, especially when hitting an elemental weakness, I think 10k per hit is ok on the Propagators (it's around the same as what Rinoa can do with Double -aga spells at this point). Even though they are now immune to Death and Odin, I wanted to leave a few options to get rid of them quickly, since you have to fight so many of them. Most other late-game bosses will have higher Vitality and of course much more HP than the Propagators, so if you fear that Darkside will break your remaining game, it won't, since there's only one Darkside copy in this mod anyway.

Well, I hope the late-game won't disappoint. Feel free to share any further impressions :)

It's been quite good so far, I am getting similar  crashes when im fighting jumbo cacutar, My game just might be messed up on my end. It  might also  have something to do with darkside that's when it seems to crash most of the time.  I'm not sure though. I didn't die all that often in the early game. I might test dying in the early game then reloading and using darkside and see what happens.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: THESQUALL93!! on 2019-09-21 00:03:52
Posting again sorry, How does auto potion work again? I have it on zell along with auto shell, and Med data. Is there something i'm doing wrong? my lowest level potion is hi-potion+ I never used this ability in the original so i have no experience with it.  Does the character in question have to be in critical hp for it to trigger after they've been hit?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-09-21 04:32:54
Auto-Potion will trigger whenever a character receives damage when their remaining HP are at 50% or less. It will also trigger when a character is currently still above 50%, but is hit by an attack that puts their HP below 50%. This is how it works in the base game as well, but X-Potion and Elixir were removed from the pool for balancing reasons, so Hi-Potion+ combined with Med Data is the way to go if you would like to use this Ability.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: THESQUALL93!! on 2019-09-21 14:07:17
Auto-Potion will trigger whenever a character receives damage when their remaining HP are at 50% or less. It will also trigger when a character is currently still above 50%, but is hit by an attack that puts their HP below 50%. This is how it works in the base game as well, but X-Potion and Elixir were removed from the pool for balancing reasons, so Hi-Potion+ combined with Med Data is the way to go if you would like to use this Ability.
Yeah i figured it out, I'm enjoying the balance of the late game so far. bahamut was challenging but he wasn't stupid hard. I got lucky and was able to squeeze out two renzokukens before he killed me.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-09-22 14:38:01
Hi there, so I'm just passing and wanted to try this mod, after having hard time to install it I run into an issue, the gameplay change seems to work perfectly fine, however I just don't have music at all just the sound effect, so this isn't an issue that make the game unplayable by any mean, but is there someone that run into that issue and know how to fix it ?

On the mod itself I only played up to Ifrit for now, want to say the mod seems quite easy compare to Requiem and Reloaded Mod (the only other FFVIII's mods I've played for now), but I acknowledge that this is a Rebalance Mod not an Hardtype Mod so that's a nice change of pace for me, it feel not hard but not Vanilla easy at the same time for now. I also like the Draw cap removal that's a really nice change here make the early game faster when tring to draw the early magics. Just I think a source of Double might be to early, it completly trivialize Ifrit all you have to do for him is spam Double Blizzard, use Double Cure when he uses Lava Burst and single Cure when he jumps (the damage from fire aren't an issue), I didn't check if the source reload with time, but if it does then it's nice.

Now I have some questions :

-I saw a lot of people play a lot with Card Mod with this mod, and so I'm gonna I am that weirdo that absolutly despise that mini-game and found it boring, so here's my question : How much is Card Mod necessary ? Can we finish the mod without it ?
-I saw you remove the Damage cap for many attacks, but saw on stream that there is still spells capped at 9999 so which spells/ability had the damage cap remove exactly ?

EDIT : Continue a bit did Dollet mission, I admit that for now I run away from like 80% of the random fight, maybe I shouldn't do that considering bosses have fixed Level, but for now this isn't an issue at all so as for the bosses :

-Biggs, Wedge and Elvoret : Are a non issue, Zell's limit break is still very powerfull (maybe even OP to be honnest) for this point, you can still chain infinitly and some hit hit hard (mainly Mach Kick was dealing 140 to Elvoret) and the chain with Burning Rave which was dealing over 900 damage, I set Silence (and he had been Blind by the Snake's dark Mist earlier) on him to boost his Crisis Level and with Elvoret still having the predictable breath (every 3 turn) it's really to spam his Limit Break and destroy Elvoret with it.

-X-ATM092 : Very easy, his Clash and Ray Bomb hit hard, but I had spare some Double for him so basically Double on Selphie and Squall, 100 Thunder Junction to Ele-Atk for Zell, I tried 3 time to set Vit 0 with Ifrit but it didn't work so I just put Zell in Berserk and let him be (he hit for around 330), Selphie was spamming Double Thunder (up to around 400 per cast) and Squall was the healer it did go well and despite losing time on trying Ifrit (3 times) and Quetzacoalt (who was dealing 900 by the way but the animation is to long and he can die easily), I still manage to beat and go back to the beach with 10-12 minutes left. Also didn't use Protect cause IMO the statut duration is to short for now.

Still haven't grind a lot for now, so that's good.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: THESQUALL93!! on 2019-09-22 19:31:08
Hi there, so I'm just passing and wanted to try this mod, after having hard time to install it I run into an issue, the gameplay change seems to work perfectly fine, however I just don't have music at all just the sound effect, so this isn't an issue that make the game unplayable by any mean, but is there someone that run into that issue and know how to fix it ?

On the mod itself I only played up to Ifrit for now, want to say the mod seems quite easy compare to Requiem and Reloaded Mod (the only other FFVIII's mods I've played for now), but I acknowledge that this is a Rebalance Mod not an Hardtype Mod so that's a nice change of pace for me, it feel not hard but not Vanilla easy at the same time for now. I also like the Draw cap removal that's a really nice change here make the early game faster when tring to draw the early magics. Just I think a source of Double might be to early, it completly trivialize Ifrit all you have to do for him is spam Double Blizzard, use Double Cure when he uses Lava Burst and single Cure when he jumps (the damage from fire aren't an issue), I didn't check if the source reload with time, but if it does then it's nice.

Now I have some questions :

-I saw a lot of people play a lot with Card Mod with this mod, and so I'm gonna I am that weirdo that absolutly despise that mini-game and found it boring, so here's my question : How much is Card Mod necessary ? Can we finish the mod without it ?
-I saw you remove the Damage cap for many attacks, but saw on stream that there is still spells capped at 9999 so which spells/ability had the damage cap remove exactly ?

I can answer some of your questions. All attacks have had their dmg caps removed i believe. Towards the end game its not uncommon to be hitting over 30k dmg with squall using darkside with max strength. As for card mod I've barely used it and have been completely fine.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-09-22 19:35:44
I can answer some of your questions. All attacks have had their dmg caps removed i believe. Towards the end game its not uncommon to be hitting over 30k dmg with squall using darkside with max strength. As for card mod I've barely used it and have been completely fine.

That is good to know, really don't want to go through the cards again for now, Damage Cap remove looks interesting will see how it goes end game (I don't expect to reach this kind of damage this early obviously^^).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: miruss89 on 2019-09-23 02:42:02
is the mod compatible with FF8 Remastered?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-09-23 08:05:29
Hi Nesouk,

have you checked if the Roses and Wine music files are present under RaW/GLOBAL/Music in your FFVIII parent folder? I can't say for certain what happened, but from your description it sounds like the files aren't actually at their designated location, so I would advise checking this out first.

The Draw Point in Balamb Garden library can only be used once during disc 1, as the Double spell is meant to be a valuable resource in the early-game before it becomes more common from mid disc 2 and onwards.

Card Mod results have been toned down in a way that they merely give you a good start instead of making you invincible for the rest of the game. The overall benefits of Card Mod should not last much longer than early disc 2, at which point you would receive the possible spells from monsters anyway. LV 6 and 7 boss cards still refine into very good items, but their availability has been pushed back to mid disc 2 and early disc 3 respectively (before that, they can only be received as one-time rewards for completing sidequests), but the spells they refine into become available soon through other means as well. So all in all, Card Mod is never really needed and should be seen as a little bonus in this mod, or an alternate method of acquiring spells.

As for the damage limit, it is as Squall93 said - everything can break it as long as it has the potential, mainly to make standard physical attacks and GF more useful in the late-game. 30k damage with Darkside is indeed possible, but not without having the right element junctioned to Elem-Atk, and of course it also depends on enemy Vitality. I guess the stream you watched showed an outdated version of this mod, when this change was not introduced yet.

Other than that, thank you for sharing your imressions in regards to difficulty. They are what I would expect from someone who has played both Requiem and Reloaded mods. The first couple of bosses are indeed quite easy, to maintain a healthy curve, but difficulty should ramp up noticably from Centra Excavation Site and onwards. From that point, getting up-to-date spells becomes important, and monsters should be fought for leveling up instead of running from every encounter.

Casting spells is also way more important than in the base game. The junction effects for many spells have been made rather weak intentionally, so they can be used in battle freely. That's particularly true for basic offensive spells, such as Fira, Blizzara or Thundara - they are rather poor on core stats, and magically oriented characters don't necessarily need them on Elemental Junctions either, as their Strength is low to begin with and their natural Spirit is high enough to reduce enemy elemental damage to reasonable levels. Status-changing attacks are also often the key to winning battles, as well as prioritizing targets, maximizing damage per-turn, or just defensive play before going all in.

If you keep all that in mind, you should never really encounter any major problems in this mod. Even though it will probably reach hardcore mod levels only rarely, I hope it will entertain in some way, and offer an experience different from the original version. Feel free to report back any time.


@miruss89: Not yet, but I will look into it once the new version for this mod is done, which will probably at the end of this week.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-09-23 20:25:38
The Draw Point in Balamb Garden library can only be used once during disc 1, as the Double spell is meant to be a valuable resource in the early-game before it becomes more common from mid disc 2 and onwards.

Yeah I check after posting my message, that's good I think farmable Double would have been OP at this point ^^.

Card Mod results have been toned down in a way that they merely give you a good start instead of making you invincible for the rest of the game. The overall benefits of Card Mod should not last much longer than early disc 2, at which point you would receive the possible spells from monsters anyway. LV 6 and 7 boss cards still refine into very good items, but their availability has been pushed back to mid disc 2 and early disc 3 respectively (before that, they can only be received as one-time rewards for completing sidequests), but the spells they refine into become available soon through other means as well. So all in all, Card Mod is never really needed and should be seen as a little bonus in this mod, or an alternate method of acquiring spells.

Yeah that's what I thought I think there's only 3 ways to go about Card Mod, either do it the way you did aka Balance it around the game, the way LandonRay try to do in Requiem which is balancing the game around it (which translate to make every oppenent strong as hell, which didn't work at the end cause abusing Card Mod was still making the mod way easier than it should) or the way Mexico did it for Reloaded Mod which is making Card Mod Disc 4 only and only if you have gotten all the cards before the Disc 4 (this was kind of a huge sidequest), which I think was an interesting approach as Card Mod basically give you the final upgrade you can get from the game (and he disables Triple Triad in Disc 4 so Rare Cards can only be refine once each, which makes it easier to balance IMO) so it come as a nice final reward but not necessary at all and can't be abuse. Will see how your approach turns out, for now tough I don't plan using Card Mod ^^"

As for the damage limit, it is as Squall93 said - everything can break it as long as it has the potential, mainly to make standard physical attacks and GF more useful in the late-game. 30k damage with Darkside is indeed possible, but not without having the right element junctioned to Elem-Atk, and of course it also depends on enemy Vitality. I guess the stream you watched showed an outdated version of this mod, when this change was not introduced yet.

Maybe in the stream I watch the player was breaking damage limit with Flare (with Angel Wing) but Quake was stuck at 9999, so I dunno. But that's an interesting feature, I honnestly always thought that GF were like the absolute worst thing to do in battle in FFVIII Modded or Vanilla, not only cause the damage potential is really not great, but the animations just take for ever (by the time their animation end I could have just cast 2 or 3 spells for overall more damage), I don't think this is possible but if there was a way to make their summoning sequence skippable that would be better.
Speaking of summon, what are the chance of success to their statut effect ? I was genuily hype when I saw while pausing that Ifrit could set Vit 0, but everytime I summon him it doesn't inflict it and just do mediocre damage.

Other than that, thank you for sharing your imressions in regards to difficulty. They are what I would expect from someone who has played both Requiem and Reloaded mods. The first couple of bosses are indeed quite easy, to maintain a healthy curve, but difficulty should ramp up noticably from Centra Excavation Site and onwards. From that point, getting up-to-date spells becomes important, and monsters should be fought for leveling up instead of running from every encounter.

Casting spells is also way more important than in the base game. The junction effects for many spells have been made rather weak intentionally, so they can be used in battle freely. That's particularly true for basic offensive spells, such as Fira, Blizzara or Thundara - they are rather poor on core stats, and magically oriented characters don't necessarily need them on Elemental Junctions either, as their Strength is low to begin with and their natural Spirit is high enough to reduce enemy elemental damage to reasonable levels. Status-changing attacks are also often the key to winning battles, as well as prioritizing targets, maximizing damage per-turn, or just defensive play before going all in.

If you keep all that in mind, you should never really encounter any major problems in this mod. Even though it will probably reach hardcore mod levels only rarely, I hope it will entertain in some way, and offer an experience different from the original version. Feel free to report back any time.

Yeah spell casting wasn't bad in Vanilla but clearly inferior to Limit Break so they need a buff, this is something that every modder even LandonRay (aka the master at nerfing the hell out of the player XD (HS : I'm trolling him a little but genuily enjoy most of the Requiem Mod, hope he is fine haven't heard of him for quite a long time now)) seems to agree on, for now I say the difficulty is between Vanilla and Requiem (Mexico's Reloaded is more tricky to note cause it keeps the Level scaling even on bosses (altough for bosses it removes the cap every boss can go up to LV100 even Ifrit) so it really depend, tough I think some parts where genuily harder than Requiem).
I'm honnestly not seeking hardcore level for now (I have my deal with Requiem and LV100 version of Reloaded XD) but a more relax experience (not a walk in a park mind you) and above all having fun.

I recently beat Granaldo and the Raldos and Diablo, Granaldo and Raldos are a good farming spot for Protect and Shell, once you kill 2 Raldos you effectivly reduce the numbers of attacks by a lot, with Protect they don't hit very hard and so by just healing from time to time it's easy to stock up Protect and Shell but the fact the Raldos attacks and even have an AoE is interesting make the fight more entertaining, so I think this fight is good for what it's suppose to be, I would just buff out Granaldo for when he is alone, he just doesn't do enough damage, I read on this thread he was suppose to gain new ability once alone but I killed him in 2 turns (I had damage him a bit prior to killing the Raldos tough).

Now for Diablo, I say he is my biggest disappointment so far, I don't have issue with story boss being easy, but this is an optionnal boss, and I think he should put up more of a fight, first off I honnestly think he shouldn't be vulnerable to Demi, this is something that always bug me he is the Gravity GF, all he does is Gravity, even his summoning attack is Gravity it makes absolutly no sense for him to be vulnerable to gravity, furthermore this battle really resolve into having a character Draw/Cast Demi (to avoid the counter) with the 2 other healing and then wait for Gravija to finish him off with Limit Break, Doom and Pain are interesting ideas tough but he seems to prioritize Demi, physical and Gravija over it, also his physical really was nothing impressive (200-220), maybe you could spice him up by having him cast Double or Haste on himself when he is at half HP (or even both one when he is at Half HP and one when he is seriously about to lose) I mean that would justify more the fact he gives the ability to create Time Magic.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-09-26 21:28:06
Alright solve the issue with the music, the problem was simple it's just that I thought I already had RaW's latest version while I in fact had the previous version, so now that issue is solve back on the mod :

-Just grind Mid Magic refine and so fill my character with Fira, Blizzara, Thundara and Cura still keeping them for junction tough.

-Laguna's first sequence : There's really nothing noticeable, outside of having encounter an Ochu, I don't remember Ochu being a mob in this place, also the sewer having only Red Bat, unfortunatly, so not worth going down in there.

-Gerogero : Very easy fight thanks to selphie's Limit break, while Zell was just punching him (in Berserk) and Squall was on support, I didn't even pay attention to his attacks to be honnest, saw he has a new attack that's like the Snake's Poison breath, which actually help me more than anything else, and his physical attacks was dealing 400-500, also only Zombie to draw from him, interesting tough as Zombie gives more HP when junctionned to HP than Cura.

-Timber : To put it simply every forced Encounter was deal with Zell's Duel, as a side note I'm still doing pretty much no Random Encounters as for now I don't need to will see.

Did go to Dollet see we can have a little rematch against X-ATM092, however considering the bastard is LV50 with over 32k to deplete, I'm gonna pass on this one for now.

-Laguna's second dream : Well Esthar's robot have Protect, Shell and Dispel to draw from so that's nice as Dispel is the best junction to Magic I have at the moment, Protect and Shell are obviously good, the last fight wasn't that bad, the main danger being Circle Sword however 2 out 3 of my character can survive 2 Circle Sword and once they did Circle Sword with Slow on them and Protect they are basically harmless just heal up and use some of Ward's Limit Break and done.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-09-28 10:16:07
Quote from: Nesouk
Will see how your approach turns out, for now tough I don't plan using Card Mod ^^"
At the moment, some of the Card Mod results are probably still a little too generous. For example, it's still possible to create Death and Meltdown right after the start of the game. Especially Meltdown is a little problematic, as it is noticably stronger than the -ara spells in this mod, and contrary to other mods, it still inflicts Vit 0 reliably on most non-boss enemies. I guess both spells will be moved to LV 6 Boss cards for the next update, but other than that, I think the results are fine. Of course, moving Card Mod to the end of the game has its advantages, but I think turning cards into items/spells per se was a fun component in the base game, just not very well balanced in regards to results, so I deciced to leave the Ability in the early-game and balance it out.

Quote
Maybe in the stream I watch the player was breaking damage limit with Flare (with Angel Wing) but Quake was stuck at 9999, so I dunno. But that's an interesting feature, I honnestly always thought that GF were like the absolute worst thing to do in battle in FFVIII Modded or Vanilla, not only cause the damage potential is really not great, but the animations just take for ever (by the time their animation end I could have just cast 2 or 3 spells for overall more damage), I don't think this is possible but if there was a way to make their summoning sequence skippable that would be better.
Oh, I see. You were watching v1.1.2 of this mod then, when only the Flare spell had the damage cap removed, so it can do more than 9,999 HP damage under Rinoa's Angel Wing. It was a short-lived experiment though, as I've found a way to generally lift the damage cap shortly after, which I think was important and necessary to make standard physical attacks still relevant in the late-game, to always have a valid option besides Limit Breaks and spells, which often have tedious animations as well (especially Meteor). I would love to make GF summoning sequences skippable as well, but it's sadly not an easy thing to do, as you said.

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Speaking of summon, what are the chance of success to their statut effect ? I was genuily hype when I saw while pausing that Ifrit could set Vit 0, but everytime I summon him it doesn't inflict it and just do mediocre damage.
The base chance for most GFs is 150/256, or ~58%. This gets reduced by a few factors, such as enemy spirit, status resistance and I think also GF Level to some extent. There are exceptions to this rule for some GF though. For example, Alexander will Blind the enemy 100% as long as they are not immune to Blind, and Tonberry's attack always causes Death if the enemy is not immune.

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Yeah spell casting wasn't bad in Vanilla but clearly inferior to Limit Break so they need a buff, this is something that every modder even LandonRay (aka the master at nerfing the hell out of the player XD (HS : I'm trolling him a little but genuily enjoy most of the Requiem Mod, hope he is fine haven't heard of him for quite a long time now)) seems to agree on, for now I say the difficulty is between Vanilla and Requiem (Mexico's Reloaded is more tricky to note cause it keeps the Level scaling even on bosses (altough for bosses it removes the cap every boss can go up to LV100 even Ifrit) so it really depend, tough I think some parts where genuily harder than Requiem).
I'm honnestly not seeking hardcore level for now (I have my deal with Requiem and LV100 version of Reloaded XD) but a more relax experience (not a walk in a park mind you) and above all having fun.
Yes, casting spells in the original was just not fun. And enemy magic damage was even worse than own magic damage, even at identical stats. I know that spells have been buffed even in Hardcore mods such as Requiem and Reloaded - which is absolutely the right thing to do. I played Requiem some years ago, and watched videos for Reloaded. It think Reloaded has many neat ideas, especially in regards to additional challenges and content. Too bad it isn't available in English though.

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I recently beat Granaldo and the Raldos and Diablo, Granaldo and Raldos are a good farming spot for Protect and Shell, once you kill 2 Raldos you effectivly reduce the numbers of attacks by a lot, with Protect they don't hit very hard and so by just healing from time to time it's easy to stock up Protect and Shell but the fact the Raldos attacks and even have an AoE is interesting make the fight more entertaining, so I think this fight is good for what it's suppose to be, I would just buff out Granaldo for when he is alone, he just doesn't do enough damage, I read on this thread he was suppose to gain new ability once alone but I killed him in 2 turns (I had damage him a bit prior to killing the Raldos tough).
Granaldo starts using Dissolving Acid after the Raldos have been defeated. It's an attack normally used only by Malboro and shoves off 37,5% of the target's current HP as physical damage and has a chance to set Vit 0. I guess you just didn't see it because the RNG went in favor of Granaldo's normal physical attack, so I guess a few AI changes and maybe slight buff for his normal attack should do - I don't think that durability is the problem here, as Granaldo actually takes quite some hits, unless you pound him with Aero repeatedly. As for Diablos, yes, your ideas sound reasonable. Especially the Haste counter when at 50% HP, as it would create a lot of tension. About immunity to Gravity attacks, I'm not sure. I'll try making Diablos counter Draw Cast Demis as well first. If that doesn't work, I might go for it.

Other than that, thank you for the feedback in your latest post. Now that you mentioned you were actually on an older version of RaW, I wonder if all mod changes have been active for you from the start. It could be that enemy magic damage didn't do its full potential before, but on the other hand, you said that you got Doubles and that X-ATM's Ray-Bomb did high damage, which is how it should be if everything is installed correctly. Hmm, weird. Anyway, good to hear you got the music issue solved, and also beat the Esthar Cyborgs by slowing them down. The Slow Draw Point at the beginning of the Excavation site has been placed there for exactly that reason.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-09-28 13:38:03
At the moment, some of the Card Mod results are probably still a little too generous. For example, it's still possible to create Death and Meltdown right after the start of the game. Especially Meltdown is a little problematic, as it is noticably stronger than the -ara spells in this mod, and contrary to other mods, it still inflicts Vit 0 reliably on most non-boss enemies. I guess both spells will be moved to LV 6 Boss cards for the next update, but other than that, I think the results are fine. Of course, moving Card Mod to the end of the game has its advantages, but I think turning cards into items/spells per se was a fun component in the base game, just not very well balanced in regards to results, so I deciced to leave the Ability in the early-game and balance it out.

Well I unlock the Card Mod ability recently, I didn't use it yet tough but from the look of it it didn't seem to OP, and well the Card Mod ability kind of justify the Triple Triad's existence, if it wasn't for it Triple Triad would just be a colossal waste of time, so it definitly should stay in the game one way or another, I just become broed of the mini game itself after so many years ^^.

Oh, I see. You were watching v1.1.2 of this mod then, when only the Flare spell had the damage cap removed, so it can do more than 9,999 HP damage under Rinoa's Angel Wing. It was a short-lived experiment though, as I've found a way to generally lift the damage cap shortly after, which I think was important and necessary to make standard physical attacks still relevant in the late-game, to always have a valid option besides Limit Breaks and spells, which often have tedious animations as well (especially Meteor). I would love to make GF summoning sequences skippable as well, but it's sadly not an easy thing to do, as you said.

Yeah I recheck it was XeroKynos's stream, didn't read the description saying it was v1.1.2, lifting the damage cap sounds good, I'm interest as how much damage Ultima can do end game, I saw in XeroKynos's stream Meteor seems to deal around 18-20k a cast on a target with Vit 0 so I'm wondering how Ultima will compare with damage cap remove, same for GF especially the elemental one when striking a weakness could be good.

The base chance for most GFs is 150/256, or ~58%. This gets reduced by a few factors, such as enemy spirit, status resistance and I think also GF Level to some extent. There are exceptions to this rule for some GF though. For example, Alexander will Blind the enemy 100% as long as they are not immune to Blind, and Tonberry's attack always causes Death if the enemy is not immune.

I'll keep that in mind, sound like FFVII New Threat, where GF were good for inflicting statut effect (especially early game) which I like even tough Summons were losing in usefulness end game.

Yes, casting spells in the original was just not fun. And enemy magic damage was even worse than own magic damage, even at identical stats. I know that spells have been buffed even in Hardcore mods such as Requiem and Reloaded - which is absolutely the right thing to do. I played Requiem some years ago, and watched videos for Reloaded. It think Reloaded has many neat ideas, especially in regards to additional challenges and content. Too bad it isn't available in English though.

Well Requiem and Reloaded had one thing in common since Aura was really hard to do, it end up like Magic was the safer option for good damage, while Limit Breaks were the high risk high reward (people underestimate Limit Break in Requiem but with Vit 0 Squall could deal up to around 60k with his Renzo, and Irvine was kind of OP between Dark Ammo for statut effect (even better in Reloaded as they can inflict Vit 0), AP Ammo to not give a damn about the ennemy defense, Fire Ammo for good AoE/Elemental damage and Pulse Ammo who could deal over a 100k in one round thanks to them breaking the damage limit (depending on Crisis Level and Critical Hit)), which I think was what makes Requiem fun, and it allow the Crisis Level mechanic to be really huge factor (while in Vanilla you don't give a strawberries about it because of Aura being so easy to access)

Well I was one of the beta testers of Reloaded, in fact some little stuffs are coming up off my feed back and suggestion, the biggest thing being the creation of LV1 and LV100 version, which accidently came out of me when I started a playthrough of Reloaded with using a Save Editor to stay LV1, I just wanted to see how it would play and mexico got the idea of creating this 2 sub versions out of it XD, so yeah kinda see Reloaded Mod as it was created, gonna say it was a very fun time (the most fun I had out of any mods) and instructive to of how game and modding development in general can be tricky (man how much trouble we had hunting down glitches and oversight like bosses not dying despite being at 0 HP or hitting themselves for some reasons XD and balance things out difficulty wise (like I insist a lot for nerfing Irvine's Pulse Ammo (originally it was possible to get up 200k with them which was ridiculous) and reworked is Limit Break in general (Dark Ammo and Pulse Ammo are now limited througout the game so have to use them wisely, was originally a suggestion of mine ^^), and yeah sadly for non french speakers mexico doesn't plan on releasing an english version and I can't blame him for it as it would take a hell lot of time to translate everything (especially new attacks name, new dialogs....etc....).

Granaldo starts using Dissolving Acid after the Raldos have been defeated. It's an attack normally used only by Malboro and shoves off 37,5% of the target's current HP as physical damage and has a chance to set Vit 0. I guess you just didn't see it because the RNG went in favor of Granaldo's normal physical attack, so I guess a few AI changes and maybe slight buff for his normal attack should do - I don't think that durability is the problem here, as Granaldo actually takes quite some hits, unless you pound him with Aero repeatedly. As for Diablos, yes, your ideas sound reasonable. Especially the Haste counter when at 50% HP, as it would create a lot of tension. About immunity to Gravity attacks, I'm not sure. I'll try making Diablos counter Draw Cast Demis as well first. If that doesn't work, I might go for it.

So I guess I was lucky for Granaldo, yeah as I mention I had already did some damage to Granaldo before taking care of the Raldo, I will keep a save for Diablos then once you modify him ;).

Other than that, thank you for the feedback in your latest post. Now that you mentioned you were actually on an older version of RaW, I wonder if all mod changes have been active for you from the start. It could be that enemy magic damage didn't do its full potential before, but on the other hand, you said that you got Doubles and that X-ATM's Ray-Bomb did high damage, which is how it should be if everything is installed correctly. Hmm, weird. Anyway, good to hear you got the music issue solved, and also beat the Esthar Cyborgs by slowing them down. The Slow Draw Point at the beginning of the Excavation site has been placed there for exactly that reason.

I can guarantee gameplay changes were applied from the get go, what happen is that I had RaW W07 Lite but my main RaW was W06 so I thinks that's why music wasn't working, up until now I was playing with RaW W07 lite (so no musics) so the change of gameplay were effectivly applied, I compare with XenoKyros's stream which I heard wasn't install properly in the beginning resulting in magical's damage from ennemies being way lower than you intended, as I was taking a lot more damage for Magical attacks like Ifrit's Lava Burst than him I think I can be assure that the gameplay changes were applied.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-09-28 22:09:37
Alright disc 1 complete so quite a lot to say :

-Tomb of the unknown King : Like that you had a little fight during the puzzle, tough you maybe should have immune the 3 Weevil (french name sorry I don't remember the English name the skeletons mob) to instant-death as you can kill them with Life spell.

-Sacred Round 1 : Not much to say here this is just a little preview of the true fight, I don't think I would have been able to kill him so I let him run away, however since he barely act I took advantage of him stock 100 Lifes with my characters and mugged him for 3 Healing Mails, Confuse on his normal attack is annoying but ultimately not dangerous.

-Sacred and Minotaur : This fight took longuer cause I wanted to mug them, and I was right to do so as Minotaur as a Power Wrist to take for a free Str + 20% really nice at this point, all in all an fairly easy fight as long as we are cautious, I use Double here to set Protect and Float as soon as possible, Float allow to avoid Mad Cow Combo and Sacred's new spell Cave-In (Earth damage + Gradual Petrification), I actually never get hit by Mad Cow Combo and this would be my only complain about this fight they take way too much time to use Mad Cow Combo, other than that set Float on them to cut off their healing, then it's just Double Aero (around 1.6k to 1.8k) or Zell's Duel (who is still very good at this point)

-X-ATM092 rematch : Before finishing Disc 1 I wanted to beat this fight, probably isn't suppose to be done at this point but I manage after some try, easily the hardest fight so far this guy is no joke, I have to pull off Shell, Protect and Float and keep them up for this all fight, as all 3 buffs are mandatory, if you don't have Protect he will destroy you with Explosion easily the worst attack of this fight as it does 1500 WITH Protect (at this point the highest HP I have is Squall with HP + 10%, 100 Life to HP he has 2500), Shell is needed for Firaga and Ray Bomb and Float is needed for Quake. Needless to say the beginning is very luck base, then it's a matter of being extremely cautious, keeps the buff up while Damaging him with Thundara (Rinoa does around 3000 damage with Double Thundara), thank god I still had some doubl to spare, this fight wouldn't be possible without them, also Quistis's White Wind is really usefull to counter his Explosion with just Blind it does enough damage for allowing her to have her Limit Break, otherwise it's Double Cura for healing. Must say I'm quite disappointed with the reward (I don't need Gold Armor and can't refine X-ATM092's card cause you need 10 of them) but at least 50 AP is nice to get.

So no go to end of disc 1 have a couple of fight to go through :

-Iguions : I make this fight harder for myself cause I wanted to mug them as we can mug Dragon Fin from so up to 2 Dragon Fin which can be refine into 20 Doubles, so couldn't let this chance pass, for some reason the one on the left is a lot and I mean a LOT harder to mug than the one on the right, in all of my try I manage to mug the right one in 1 or 2 attempts, but end up killing the left one before I succeed at mugging I had to resolve myself to heal the bastard in order to finally mug him, anyway the thing with this figh is that none of the 2 forced character is a good caster, therefore my healing and magic damage potential was severely reduce, but Squall with 100 Break to Ele-Atk can deal around 750 damage (1100 when Berserked), I set Shell on both Irvine and Squall cause Magma Breath and Resonance hurts quite a lot, the draw Carbuncle, Mug the right one and kill him with Squall was Irvine is on the support, once the right one is down Resonance is out of the fight which is good, then I mug the Left one and finish him off once I succeed.

Must say I was expecting some new fix fights with Zell, Quistis and Selphie bt it didn't happen so that part is just like Vanilla then onto the final fights :

-Squall VS Seifer : Not a push over this time around, his physical can hurt if he crit and later in the fight is Fira hit for 1000, and I forgot to protect Squall against Fire like a dumbass, fortunatly Seifer need 3 turns to kill Squall and seeing how Slow he is it's not gonna happe, as long as I don't take useless risk this is a manageable fight well done considering how 1 v 1 fight are tricky to balance in turn base RPG.

-Edea : Probably the biggest let down of Disc 1's ending, the start was great I was genuily afraid of her Maelstrom setting Slow on all my team, but then she doesn't have the speed to back it up, I had all the time necessary to heal Slow with Haste, set Double and Shell on my characters, she is slow and can only attack 1 character at the same time, which makes her easy even in the last phase where she uses aga spell, Shell is mandatory so that she doesn't 1 shot, but if it happen it's pretty easy to recover, as for damage I was relying on Double -ra cast and Renzokuken, I think she need a little buff in speed and some AoE options, as of now she is the easiest fight of Disc 1's ending IMO.

So Disc 1 over with Squall LV17, Quistis LV15, Zell, Selphie and Linoa LV14 and Irvine LV13.

EDIT : Progressing :

Laguna's third dream has a little fight against 2 Grendels, the can be berserk and slow which make them harmless, and I got lucky by turning them into Card I got 1 Catoblepas Card, which can be refine into a Black Hole to learn Degenerator to Quistis not sure if this intended.

Now for the Prison, I want to say Zell's Duel is still extremely good with No Crit I can still pull of over 6000 damage in 1 turn enough to kill any mobs in 1 turn (I'm quite interst to see how it will turn out late game), Quistis's Water Breath can break the 9999 limit on the Robots as they are weak to Water and she can kill pretty much anything with Degenerator anyway XD, so really the Prison was a walk in the park, this include the Final Fight which Quistis single handedly destroy with Water Breath she can kill the 2 Robots (they barely even got the time to act) in 2 turns then the Galbadian soldier is easily finish off by Squall using Darkside, Squall currently does 2000 damage with Darkside with no Junction to Elemental Attack by the way XD.

EDIT 2 : Progressing further, Missile Base was fun, on the Commander + 2 Guards fight I take out the Guard first, then manage to Draw 100 Reflect with both Selphie and Quistis (my team was Selphie, Quistis and Zell) which make the Commander annoying tough as he can set Confuse on us, Regen on himself and deal high damage with Bio.

For the big tank things at the end I Junction Water to Zell attaque and he was dealing over 2000 with Darkside, Selphie was dealing 1700 with Water spell same with Quistis, he hit like a truck tough his Gatling hit for over a 1000 and set Slow and his Laser deal over 2500 damage so pretty much a one shot, he also set Mighty Guard at a moment but I just Dispel it right way, and I finish off the soldiers after him with Zell's Duel and magic.

Now before starting the Garden I upgrade Irvine's weapon, now the garden part was for the most part well done since I was around LV15 with Linoa and Irvine and 18 with Squall the fix fight at LV45 were providing good challenge and I like how you change them so basically :

-Tri-Face : Very farming spot for Pain just put him to Sleep and you can draw Pain from him, I draw 100 Pains with Linoa (Irvine and Squall's magic were to low) and Mug 6 Curse spikes for 60 more pains, so just keep him under sleep and hit him with Fira until he dies, watch out for the Poison Gas before he died. 100 Pains gives a massive boost to Linoa's magic she now has 131 in magic.

-Grendel + Bomb : Kill the bomb with Blizzara, Linoa can deal around 3700 to it with Blizzara, for Grendel put Berserk on him makes him much manageable.

-Ochu : Haste to cure the slow of his Ochu dance, then he is weak to Fire so Fira spell and Squall with Darkside and Fira to Ele-Atk-J does really solid damage.

-Death Claw : Berserk + Blind = GG otherwise this guy would be a pain in the ass as he can counter with Sleep Gas and has Explosion who deal ridiculous damage.

-2 Mesmerize : Just Blind them and they become a non issue as all of their attack are physical/

-1 Glacial Eye + 1 Bomb : Kill the bomb with Blizzara and the Glacial Eye with Fire.

-Granaldo : Can be Slow and is weak to wind, honnestly he didn't even get 1 turn.

Then for the MD Level, has Tri-Faces been remove from here ? I couldn't find any wanted to get some Pains from them, so I just rush to Oilboyles, who I completly destroy, Oilboyles is definitly Irvine's time to shine as they are weak to Fire Irvine can deal 1300 (double if crit) per Fire Shot and he can easily pull off like 4 or 5 shots per round, I killed them in 2 turns this way, just one of them got the time to cast a Sonic Wave.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-09-30 11:29:18
Quote from: Nesouk
Yeah I recheck it was XeroKynos's stream, didn't read the description saying it was v1.1.2, lifting the damage cap sounds good, I'm interest as how much damage Ultima can do end game, I saw in XeroKynos's stream Meteor seems to deal around 18-20k a cast on a target with Vit 0 so I'm wondering how Ultima will compare with damage cap remove, same for GF especially the elemental one when striking a weakness could be good.
Ultima can inflict around 12-13k on a target with Vit 0, but as most late-game bosses are immune to Vit 0, you probably won't see that very often. The average should be 9-10k, which is still a quite an improvement over the original version, in which Ultima does around 7k damage at most. Meteor is currently a little too strong in this mod, and will be put closer to Ultima levels of damage, so that Meteor does a slightly more damage than Ultima on a single enemy, but noticably less when hitting multiple targets. GF benefit from breaking the damage limit greatly. If you know about enemy elemental weaknesses and also their severity, they can be fun to use, if you don't mind the animations too much.

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Well Requiem and Reloaded had one thing in common since Aura was really hard to do, it end up like Magic was the safer option for good damage, while Limit Breaks were the high risk high reward (people underestimate Limit Break in Requiem but with Vit 0 Squall could deal up to around 60k with his Renzo, and Irvine was kind of OP between Dark Ammo for statut effect (even better in Reloaded as they can inflict Vit 0), AP Ammo to not give a damn about the ennemy defense, Fire Ammo for good AoE/Elemental damage and Pulse Ammo who could deal over a 100k in one round thanks to them breaking the damage limit (depending on Crisis Level and Critical Hit)), which I think was what makes Requiem fun, and it allow the Crisis Level mechanic to be really huge factor (while in Vanilla you don't give a strawberries about it because of Aura being so easy to access)
Yes, I noticed Pulse Ammo being extremely powerful in Requiem too. But that's not really surprising at all. I have to say that Irvine's Shot is possibly the most difficult Limit Break to get right balance-wise - not just in terms of raw power (as they scale very well with Strength) and crit chances, but also when it comes to accessibility of Ammo in general. In the original version, all Ammo except Pulse Ammo is very easy to come by, and not that much has changed about that in this mod yet. Do you remember how you got the Flame Ammo for the Oilboyle boss battle? I already reduced the numbers you can refine from Bomb Fragments and the like, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make Ammo feel like a valuable, limited resource.

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[...]modding development in general can be tricky (man how much trouble we had hunting down glitches and oversight like bosses not dying despite being at 0 HP or hitting themselves for some reasons[...]
Yes, I've noticed it all myself already. If you are not careful, you can make enemies counter themselves, or they don't die because a variable hasn't been set correctly, or it's something as simple as forgetting to put a "die" at the end of an enemy's Death tab.. But you are getting used to it after a while. Anyway, your efforts on the Reloaded mod seem to have paid off, as it seems to be in a quite good shape by now. Maybe I'll check it out myself someday, no matter the language.

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I can guarantee gameplay changes were applied from the get go, what happen is that I had RaW W07 Lite but my main RaW was W06 so I thinks that's why music wasn't working, up until now I was playing with RaW W07 lite (so no musics) so the change of gameplay were effectivly applied, I compare with XenoKyros's stream which I heard wasn't install properly in the beginning resulting in magical's damage from ennemies being way lower than you intended, as I was taking a lot more damage for Magical attacks like Ifrit's Lava Burst than him I think I can be assure that the gameplay changes were applied.
Ok, that explains everything. Good to know that all the changes worked correctly from the start.

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Must say I'm quite disappointed with the reward (I don't need Gold Armor and can't refine X-ATM092's card cause you need 10 of them) but at least 50 AP is nice to get.
Well, I know of a few mod testers who liked to use their GF as a shield in battle, so I thought Gold Armor would be a good fit for a sidequest reward. It's also one the items that are absurdly hard to come by in the original game, so I wanted to give a little more opportunities here. But I understand it feels disappointing for anyone who uses GF only rarely or not all. Maybe I'll switch it out, and put the Gold Armor elsewhere, so the victory over X-ATM092 feels more earned.

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-Edea : Probably the biggest let down of Disc 1's ending, the start was great I was genuily afraid of her Maelstrom setting Slow on all my team, but then she doesn't have the speed to back it up, I had all the time necessary to heal Slow with Haste, set Double and Shell on my characters, she is slow and can only attack 1 character at the same time, which makes her easy even in the last phase where she uses aga spell, Shell is mandatory so that she doesn't 1 shot, but if it happen it's pretty easy to recover, as for damage I was relying on Double -ra cast and Renzokuken, I think she need a little buff in speed and some AoE options, as of now she is the easiest fight of Disc 1's ending IMO.
I would really like to give Edea one more AoE besides Maelstrom, but the problem is the limited space for attacks for each enemy. And in the case of the first Edea battle, it's particularly sparse, as all of her lines count as an actual move. But I'll see what I can do to free up a little more space. As for her Speed, yes, she is quite slow, but that's intentional, as she is a Mage/Sorceress, a class who isn't known to be the fastest. I think the bigger problem is her still skipping a turn every now and then (25% at the moment). This will be reduced or even removed completely in the next version though.

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Laguna's third dream has a little fight against 2 Grendels, the can be berserk and slow which make them harmless, and I got lucky by turning them into Card I got 1 Catoblepas Card, which can be refine into a Black Hole to learn Degenerator to Quistis not sure if this intended.
Degenerator has its success rate reduced in this mod and more enemies are immune, but having the chance to get it early disc 2 was not really planned. Good that you noticed. I'll put in on the change list.

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Now for the Prison, I want to say Zell's Duel is still extremely good with No Crit I can still pull of over 6000 damage in 1 turn enough to kill any mobs in 1 turn (I'm quite interst to see how it will turn out late game), Quistis's Water Breath can break the 9999 limit on the Robots as they are weak to Water and she can kill pretty much anything with Degenerator anyway XD, so really the Prison was a walk in the park, this include the Final Fight which Quistis single handedly destroy with Water Breath she can kill the 2 Robots (they barely even got the time to act) in 2 turns then the Galbadian soldier is easily finish off by Squall using Darkside, Squall currently does 2000 damage with Darkside with no Junction to Elemental Attack by the way XD.
Do you remember how you did 6000 damage with Zell's Duel in one turn? Is it still the repeated use of Booya and Punch Rush? If so, then I don't really know how to make it less effective, other than removing the possibility of this combo altogether (their base values are already quite low). As for the lack of difficulty in D-District Prison, I think you had a certain advantage because you keep your levels rather low, as the GIM47Ns won't use their AoE skill on lower levels (all enemy levels will be fixed in the next version though, to keep perceived difficulty more constant throughout the game). In the Prison, it's actually risky to stay at low HP for longer periods of time, as there's also the Aqua Breath attack from Chimeras that can catch you off guard easily. As for Quistis Aqua Breath, yes, it's quite strong, especially in this area, as there are so many enemies weak to Water there. In other areas, it won't be as effective though, so I guess it's fine to leave it as it is.

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Then for the MD Level, has Tri-Faces been remove from here ? I couldn't find any wanted to get some Pains from them
Tri-Faces are still there and common at the lower areas of MD Levels. I would recommend the Oilboyle area, where Blobras and Blood Souls can be encountered as well.

Again, thanks a lot for your detailed reports. Some of it will be considered for the next version of this mod. Granaldo and Diablos are already changed based on some of your ideas. Hoping to get the new version done within the next couple of days (the last week target was a bit too optimistic).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-09-30 19:53:33
Ultima can inflict around 12-13k on a target with Vit 0, but as most late-game bosses are immune to Vit 0, you probably won't see that very often. The average should be 9-10k, which is still a quite an improvement over the original version, in which Ultima does around 7k damage at most. Meteor is currently a little too strong in this mod, and will be put closer to Ultima levels of damage, so that Meteor does a slightly more damage than Ultima on a single enemy, but noticably less when hitting multiple targets. GF benefit from breaking the damage limit greatly. If you know about enemy elemental weaknesses and also their severity, they can be fun to use, if you don't mind the animations too much.

AH Was expecting more of Ultima, but I guess that's fair enough, I really should give a fair shot to GF I'm just so use to not use them kind of hard to break that habit ^^

Yes, I noticed Pulse Ammo being extremely powerful in Requiem too. But that's not really surprising at all. I have to say that Irvine's Shot is possibly the most difficult Limit Break to get right balance-wise - not just in terms of raw power (as they scale very well with Strength) and crit chances, but also when it comes to accessibility of Ammo in general. In the original version, all Ammo except Pulse Ammo is very easy to come by, and not that much has changed about that in this mod yet. Do you remember how you got the Flame Ammo for the Oilboyle boss battle? I already reduced the numbers you can refine from Bomb Fragments and the like, but I'm not sure if it's enough to make Ammo feel like a valuable, limited resource.

Well yeah Irvine's Limit Break is hard to balance, heck even in Reloaded Irvine was kinda OP being the best damage dealer at all stage of the game with AP Shot for mid game, Fire Ammo for Fire weak ennemies (and even a decent AoE in general), Dark Shot has the single best way to set Vit 0 (which in Reloaded still work on every ennemies like Requiem) and Pulse Ammo for late game damage.
Maybe you could do something similar to what mexicon did in Reloaded, originally I suggested to remove Ammo-RF but that was a bit extreme, so mexico decide to just make the troublesome Ammos (mainly Dark Ammo and Pulse Ammo, AP Ammo was losing potency later in the game due to not breaking the 9999 damage, and Fire Ammo is situationnal) limited in the game, meaning you can't farm them there's just a fix amount in the game and no more which makes the player think twice before spamming them, maybe you could do that I don't know yet which ammo are the most powerfull tough.
As for Fire Ammo I get them from Fuel which can be refine into 20 Fire Ammo, you can buy them in shop which I didn't do but I dropped a lot of Fuel from the GIM52A in the Prison, so combine with Bomb Fragment I got 100 Fire Ammo fairly easily, in fact I still have 7 Fuels to spare so 140 Fire Ammo.

Well, I know of a few mod testers who liked to use their GF as a shield in battle, so I thought Gold Armor would be a good fit for a sidequest reward. It's also one the items that are absurdly hard to come by in the original game, so I wanted to give a little more opportunities here. But I understand it feels disappointing for anyone who uses GF only rarely or not all. Maybe I'll switch it out, and put the Gold Armor elsewhere, so the victory over X-ATM092 feels more earned.

To be fair it's partly my fault, GF seems to be really good in your mod, I really should try them more, I'm just reluctant due to past playthrough from Vanilla, and neither Requiem or Reloaded manage to make them usefull, so I will try to play them more from now on.

I would really like to give Edea one more AoE besides Maelstrom, but the problem is the limited space for attacks for each enemy. And in the case of the first Edea battle, it's particularly sparse, as all of her lines count as an actual move. But I'll see what I can do to free up a little more space. As for her Speed, yes, she is quite slow, but that's intentional, as she is a Mage/Sorceress, a class who isn't known to be the fastest. I think the bigger problem is her still skipping a turn every now and then (25% at the moment). This will be reduced or even removed completely in the next version though.

AH Yeah that 1/3 chances of skipping turn, yeah I remember this pissing off mexico during Reloaded's development ^^, and worst being that apparently some ennemies just completly glitch out if you try to remove it (Most noticeable in Reloaded being Ultimecia's third form, which is the easiest of the final fight in Reloaded because of this). Couldn't you remove some of their lines ? Like the one where she taunts the character mid battle is just a waste of time.

Do you remember how you did 6000 damage with Zell's Duel in one turn? Is it still the repeated use of Booya and Punch Rush? If so, then I don't really know how to make it less effective, other than removing the possibility of this combo altogether (their base values are already quite low).

OH No Booya and Punch Rush have been nerf down to the point it's honnestly pointless to use them, however Heel Drop, Mach Kick and Dolphin Blow are still strong on GIM47N Heel Drop does 400-450, Mach Kick does 550-600 and Dolphin Blow 780-820, basically I just try a chain with as much as these as I can so 6000 on GIM47N (without Vit 0) in 5 seconds.

As for the lack of difficulty in D-District Prison, I think you had a certain advantage because you keep your levels rather low, as the GIM47Ns won't use their AoE skill on lower levels (all enemy levels will be fixed in the next version though, to keep perceived difficulty more constant throughout the game). In the Prison, it's actually risky to stay at low HP for longer periods of time, as there's also the Aqua Breath attack from Chimeras that can catch you off guard easily. As for Quistis Aqua Breath, yes, it's quite strong, especially in this area, as there are so many enemies weak to Water there. In other areas, it won't be as effective though, so I guess it's fine to leave it as it is.

Chimera's Aqua Breath caught me off guard the first time but didn't kill me, after the first tough I just junction 100 Water to elemental Defense so I was fine, my only concern about Aqua Breath is Cactuar, Jumbo Cactuar and Ultimecia's third form (unless you changed it she take Triple Damage from Water), tough if it's only the Prison and them I guess it's fine.

Tri-Faces are still there and common at the lower areas of MD Levels. I would recommend the Oilboyle area, where Blobras and Blood Souls can be encountered as well.

Guess I should have just persevere, well to bad for me I guess, OH well it will just delay the time I will get Pains.

By the way I fight Norg, well I have no complain on this one really it's a really well done fight, Norg has enough HP to take a lot punishment without it feeling like a marathon so you need to do a lot of damage but he also does a lot of damage that you have to recover or protect from, he buff himself so you need to debuff him and all of that while preventing the Eye from turning Red so a really good fight as their is a bunch of thing to watch out for and always something to do, so I don't think this fight can be better outside of maybe giving him the possibility to inflict Statut Effects, and maybe reduce the amount HP of his Pod, the fight gets interesting once he is out of the pod, the pod phase feel unecessary to be honnest, other than that it's honnestly my favorite fight up to now, as for damage Squall's Darkside with Aero to Elemental ttack does over 3000 and Rinoa with aero hit for 1800 Irvine was mostly on support.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nsandro on 2019-09-30 22:43:42
Hello,

Any chance to see this awesome mod in Remastered version?

thank you
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-03 12:14:48
Keep going through :

-Tank second round (always forgot his name) : Way easier than the first time but I guess story wise it make sense, basically he really hate Water, and is quite slow, I quite didn't his Laser once.

-Centra : So first off good thing you add a fight there before Odin, that fight caught me off guard and I got killed once cause I wasn't prepare for it, the second time around got some Water and Earth protection, found out the Armadillo can be Zombified so I did that and throw Life to Instant-kill them, once alone the Chimaira is easy to deal with despite her Thundaga seriously hurting, good thing however we can go out of Centra and reenter to reset the timer, despite Odin's complaining XD

-Odin : So he is just like vanilla and does absolutly nothing, so yeah easy boss there, manage to steal Luck-J Scroll from him then I just spam Zell and Squall limit breaks and Double Water until he goes down, he has quite a lot of health but that's about it.

-Tomberry Sr : Man I swear I love Reloaded for having to just kill one Tonberry in order to fight Tonberry Senior, having to kill 20 tonberries is just dumbest thing in this game, OH well at least it allows me to get a bunch Chief's Knife to refine into AP Ammo. As for Tonberry Senior he is pathetically easy, really this guy is nothing but a giant HP Sponge, tough I don't know if I get Lucky but he didn't use Junk at all during the entire fight, so I just keep Quistis and Irvine low HP and spam their Limit Break while Squall was on support, by the way Irvine AP Shot is good was doing 750 damage per shot at the time (now probably more since I have better Junction) and over 1500 with Critical hit I can shot 3 up to 6 Ammos a time so that's 2250 up to 9000 depending of Crisis Level and Crits so pretty good.

-Fujin and Raijin : The fight against Raijin and 2 Soldier is just warm up so I didn't expect it to pose a challenge at all, so for Fujin and Raijin I think this fight could be interesting but it need some works, first off they can be Slow and once you Slow them both this fight becomes a complete joke as they will never be able to keep with your healing, the only dangerous attack is Raijin Special as it deals over 2800 without Protect so Protect is pretty much mandatory for surviving this attack, other than that Raijin doesn't do anything special, and also him doing a Hi Potion + is just laugheable I can hit him for 7000 damage with Double Bio, so what is the purpose of this I think you should replace the Hi Potion + by something else. Fujin does nothing but Wind Magic as long as you don't Draw Pandemona, after you draw it she starts using physical her normal attacks inflicting Slow and Poison can be annoying but again since she can be slow I can keep up with her, and by herself as long has you have Wind Resistance (I had Aero + Float junction to elemental defense on all character) she doesn't have any ability capable of doing dangerous damage outside of Sai reducing HP of 1 character to 1.
I also try the fight without Slow, it is still easy, just don't draw Pandemona while Raijin is around to prevent Fujin to do Sai (can be dangerous if Raijin is around as this potentially gives him the opportunity to kill a character) or her normal attack with statut effect overall I think this fight need some serious work, I think make at least one of them immune to Slow or give them some counter ability so that even slowed they can fight back, maybe give some other spells to Fujin Tornado is fine but Aero is honnestly kind of a joke at this point and making her able to use all of her attacks even when Pandemona is drawn and lastly Raijin's Hi Potion + should be replace by something else it's honnestly completly useless at this point of the game as we can deal over 7000 damage to him.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-03 14:01:20
@Nesouk:

-Ammo Availability: Ok, will do something similar, without making any Ammo type finite, though. Further reducing refine rates for Ammo and item drops should do for now. Some of them are still too generous, especially for Fire Ammo.

-Edea: Yes, removing one of her taunts sounds good. Her new AoE will be one-time only though, as she will have her turn skips removed. Both regular AoE and no turn skips would probably be a bit too much to be honest.

-Duel: Not sure about reducing the other moves besides Punch Rush and Booya yet. It would be good if you had an eye on how Duel performs for you against enemies in the late-game, as most of them (especially bosses) have noticably higher Vitality than enemies like the GIM47A, and are mostly immune to Vit 0. If by then you still feel like Duel is too strong, then some adjustments should be made for sure.

-Aqua Breath: I was very cautious in regards to its damage against Jumbo Cactuar and Ultimecia's third form, so they have had their weakness against Water reduced and defensive stats increased. It will still be strong, but not strong enough to finish these bosses within just a couple of turns (at least not with Water attacks alone).

As for your latest post, I kind of regret not having finished the mod's new version earlier, as almost all the things you mentioned will be changed in one way or another, especially in Centra Ruins. Would have been a good opportunity to get some feedback right away, but well... As for Tonberry, you are right, reducing the kills required to make Tonberry King appear is a good idea, yet somehow it has never crossed my mind. Just noticed that it's actually a quite easy thing to do. Everything else was already on the list, but thanks anyway.

@Nsandro: I can't guarantee anything yet, but it's definitely planned to be compatible with the Remastered version at some point. Will start to look at it thoroughly soon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-03 14:27:06
As for your latest post, I kind of regret not having finished the mod's new version earlier, as almost all the things you mentioned will be changed in one way or another, especially in Centra Ruins. Would have been a good opportunity to get some feedback right away, but well... As for Tonberry, you are right, reducing the kills required to make Tonberry King appear is a good idea, yet somehow it has never crossed my mind. Just noticed that it's actually a quite easy thing to do. Everything else was already on the list, but thanks anyway.

A good thing with me I'm the kind of guy who does like 500 different save files XD, so if you were to release a new version I don't mind going back a bit for giving feedback, when do you the new version will be finish ? if not to long then I might pause my playthrough and continue once you update, would be pointless to give feedback on things you already plan to modify, on other subjects :

-Ammo Availability: Ok, will do something similar, without making any Ammo type finite, though. Further reducing refine rates for Ammo and item drops should do for now. Some of them are still too generous, especially for Fire Ammo.

That could work, for Fire Ammo I would suggest remove the Fuel from shop, this is pointless item to buy otherwise and the fact it's available pretty much anywhere make Fire Ammo really easy to get. On subject of Irvine's Limit break power since you say to have immune boss to Vit 0 Armor Shot is the one that worry me the most, currently on Cerberus I'm doing around 1000-1100 per shots (double if it Crit (it help Irvine has a good Base Luck with 100 Death and Luck+30% he has like a 30% crit rate currently) so with 3 to 6 shots I mention earlier that's 3000-3300 to 12000-13200, very unlikely to reach this tough often I say I get an average of 2 crit when shoting 6 ammos so that's more 8000 to 8800.

-Edea: Yes, removing one of her taunts sounds good. Her new AoE will be one-time only though, as she will have her turn skips removed. Both regular AoE and no turn skips would probably be a bit too much to be honest.

Will see how it turn out then.

-Duel: Not sure about reducing the other moves besides Punch Rush and Booya yet. It would be good if you had an eye on how Duel performs for you against enemies in the late-game, as most of them (especially bosses) have noticably higher Vitality than enemies like the GIM47A, and are mostly immune to Vit 0. If by then you still feel like Duel is too strong, then some adjustments should be made for sure.

It certainly is to early to judge if Duel is to strong or not especially considering I'm not using high tier magic yet (I've got some tough), I'must say tough that it's the most fun Limit Break to use, since the easy way of spamming Booya and Punch Rush is out of the way I have to found new combos, so on that aspect you manage to make it more fun, by the is Meteor Strike still a Gravity move ? Or did you make it a physical attack, I haven't test it yet.
Edit : Tested Meteor Strike is physical attack good thing, for now with 115 str and a crit rate of around 28%, I was able to get almost 14000 damage on a Hexdragon with a timer of 5.66 seconds as for the combo I do it goes as follow :

Punch Rush (starting) > Dolphin Blow > Mach Kick > Dolphin Blow > Meteor Strike > Dolphin Blow > Mach Kick > Dolphin Blow > Mach Kick > Dolphin Blow > Meteor Strike....etc...

I'm seeking for a better combo (potentially one that would get more Meteor Strike) currently and still haven't be able to run a damage test with better timer.

EDIT 3 : Manage to test with the highest timer possible of 9.33 second manage to deal almost 21000 damage still on Hexdragon, wonder how it will go against high vit bosses.

-Aqua Breath: I was very cautious in regards to its damage against Jumbo Cactuar and Ultimecia's third form, so they have had their weakness against Water reduced and defensive stats increased. It will still be strong, but not strong enough to finish these bosses within just a couple of turns (at least not with Water attacks alone).

OK that's a good thing to hear, I guess I will see how it goes.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-03 16:29:52
A good thing with me I'm the kind of guy who does like 500 different save files XD, so if you were to release a new version I don't mind going back a bit for giving feedback, when do you the new version will be finish ? if not to long then I might pause my playthrough and continue once you update, would be pointless to give feedback on things you already plan to modify, on other subjects :
Ok, it would certainly help if you could retest certain things (especially Centra Ruins) after the new version is up. It should be finished by the end of this week.

Quote
That could work, for Fire Ammo I would suggest remove the Fuel from shop, this is pointless item to buy otherwise and the fact it's available pretty much anywhere make Fire Ammo really easy to get. On subject of Irvine's Limit break power since you say to have immune boss to Vit 0 Armor Shot is the one that worry me the most, currently on Cerberus I'm doing around 1000-1100 per shots (double if it Crit (it help Irvine has a good Base Luck with 100 Death and Luck+30% he has like a 30% crit rate currently) so with 3 to 6 shots I mention earlier that's 3000-3300 to 12000-13200, very unlikely to reach this tough often I say I get an average of 2 crit when shoting 6 ammos so that's more 8000 to 8800.
Armor Shot damage will max out at around 5500 HP per shot if Irvine's Strength is at 255, so damage will fluctuate between 16,000 and 33,000 HP, (critical hits excluded) depending on Crisis Level. It also has the lowest base critical rate out of all Ammo types, so I don't think it will be overly powerful in the late-game, when bosses have 100,000 HP or more, unless you seriously put some work on Irvine's Luck stat. Armor Shot has actually been nerfed two times in this mod already, but if you think it's still too powerful, don't hesitate to tell. Maybe changing the formula for physical attacks and critical hit calculation / Luck will be inevitable sooner or later, to get more pleasing results overall.

Quote
It certainly is to early to judge if Duel is to strong or not especially considering I'm not using high tier magic yet (I've got some tough), I'must say tough that it's the most fun Limit Break to use, since the easy way of spamming Booya and Punch Rush is out of the way I have to found new combos, so on that aspect you manage to make it more fun, by the is Meteor Strike still a Gravity move ? Or did you make it a physical attack, I haven't test it yet.
Meteor Strike has been changed from a Gravity attack to a physical attack that ignores enemy Vitality, so Duel is not totally worthless against high Vit enemies. Base power is between Mach Kick and Dolphin Blow, and its input should take a little longer than most other moves, so I think it's in an ok spot. But of course it would be interesting what you think after some testing on your own.

What are your character levels at the moment by the way? I wonder if you still have a certain advantage over normal enemies because their levels are rather low. Hexadragons in G-Garden will be around LV 40 fixed in the upcoming version, so if you face only LV 20 ones at the moment due to own levels, that would be quite a difference.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-03 19:35:42
Armor Shot damage will max out at around 5500 HP per shot if Irvine's Strength is at 255, so damage will fluctuate between 16,000 and 33,000 HP, (critical hits excluded) depending on Crisis Level. It also has the lowest base critical rate out of all Ammo types, so I don't think it will be overly powerful in the late-game, when bosses have 100,000 HP or more, unless you seriously put some work on Irvine's Luck stat. Armor Shot has actually been nerfed two times in this mod already, but if you think it's still too powerful, don't hesitate to tell. Maybe changing the formula for physical attacks and critical hit calculation / Luck will be inevitable sooner or later, to get more pleasing results overall.

Well I plan on eventually doing kind of a Crit build on Irvine, since he already has the highest Luck of 3 dudes and is arguably the character that beneficiate the most of an high crit rate so I planned on taking advantage of it, I guess I'll see how he turns out.

Meteor Strike has been changed from a Gravity attack to a physical attack that ignores enemy Vitality, so Duel is not totally worthless against high Vit enemies. Base power is between Mach Kick and Dolphin Blow, and its input should take a little longer than most other moves, so I think it's in an ok spot. But of course it would be interesting what you think after some testing on your own.

What are your character levels at the moment by the way? I wonder if you still have a certain advantage over normal enemies because their levels are rather low. Hexadragons in G-Garden will be around LV 40 fixed in the upcoming version, so if you face only LV 20 ones at the moment due to own levels, that would be quite a difference.

My LV were Squall LV37, Zell LV25, Selphie LV20 so an average of 27 definitly not LV40 altough I could use the LVUP ability to test on a higher LV Hexdragon actually I might do that.

Actually Meteor Strike's input for me are easier to perform than Dolphin Blow so that's not an issue to me, it seems to be less frequent than Dolphin Blow who seems to be everywhere XD, but like I said I think I'm to early in the game to really judge, I read in this thread that magic casting is OP, and seems to be the way to go (especially if the opponent has an Elemental weakness), for now it goes like this on an Hexdragon with the average LV I said :

-Zell's Duel is for now does up 21k in 1 turn or even more with crit
-Irvine's damage vary a lot depending on Crisis Level and Critical Hits currently up to around 8000-8800 a turn
-Squall's renzokuken currently does around 950-1050 per hit so that's 3800 up to 8400 and Fated Circle does around 2200 (it can crit dor Double) so Squall can currentyl reach up to 12k-12.8k if Fated Circle crit.
-Squall with 100 Water to Elemental attack can also deal around 8500 damage with Darkside, so yeah in the case of Squall Darkside compete with his Limit Break ^^
-Selphie with 136 in magic can deal around 6800 damage with 1 Water cast (meaning with Triple (tough I need to manage a Cerberus summon if I want it) it's 20400)
-Quistis with 140 in magic can deal 16500 with Aqua Breath
-Rinoa with 168 in magic deal 7500 a water cast (so 22500 with Triple)

So for now Zell has the best damage against neutral foe, if there is an Elemental weakness like Hexdragon tough magic is the way to go.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nsandro on 2019-10-03 19:49:59
Quote
@Nsandro: I can't guarantee anything yet, but it's definitely planned to be compatible with the Remastered version at some point. Will start to look at it thoroughly soon.

Thank you.

Im lvl28 in G-Garden and Cerber crush me easy, so my lvl is to low or its very hard ? ^^

Can you tell me if this mod http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=15354.0 is useless with yours ?

Thank you.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.4)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-04 05:10:07
Im lvl28 in G-Garden and Cerber crush me easy, so my lvl is to low or its very hard ? ^^

I just beat him yesterday around that LV, he can be tough if unprepare, but junction Aero and Float to Elemental defense Junction, Berserk to Statut Defense Junction, set Protect ASAP and NEVER let him in Triple if he cast Triple just Dispel him, as for offense personnaly I was keeping Irvine at low HP and spamming Armor Shot but you can do that with anyone.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-07 14:59:45
Version 1.1.5 now available

Changes Overview

Enemies

Spells, Card Mod and Refinement

Boss changes

Almost all bosses have been changed in some way. The most notable changes are as follows:

Pigtail Girl sidequest

It has recently become known that Zell receives a spell during one of the events in Balamb Garden's library, depending on the survey answers from one of the previous events. The player can pick Zell's favorite color and food from 3 selections each, so there's a total of 9 different outcomes, and therefore 9 different spells Zell can get. The rewards are a little underwhelming in the base game, so they have been improved in this version of the mod. Credits go to gamefaqs user aladore384 and myst6re for discovering this. The rewards are as follows:

Code: [Select]
Base game
Red Blue Pink
Beef 1x Meteor 1x Scan 1x Demi
Fish 1x Triple 1x Holy 1x Ultima
Hot dogs 1x Shell 1x Full-life 1x Zombie

New
Red Blue Pink
Beef 10x Meteor 100x Scan 50x Demi
Fish 5x Triple 10x Holy 5x Ultima
Hot dogs 10x Renew 10x Full-life 100x Zombie


Other changes

A list that contains the most important Cards/Items/Spells swaps will soon follow.


@Nsandro: Yes, Hard Mode is compatible with this mod, but keep in mind that enemy physical damage will be 1.5 times higher than intended, and own physical attacks weaker than intended.

@Nesouk: I haven't made any changes to Duel yet, but maybe will soon, depending on how Duel performs for you late-game. I think it's ok if it's stronger than other Limit Breaks in many situations, as in return, it requires more skill to be used efficiently, and using it to full extent is quite time-consuming, and therefore dps is rather low, but we'll see.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nsandro on 2019-10-08 13:23:15
Nice, thank you for this update !

edit : in centra , if we leave , tomberry kill is no more reset?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-08 19:29:49
Alright so Centra 2.0 (gonna put on spoiler in case other players doesn't want to spoil it) :

Spoiler: show
OH Boy it was like I was routing a speedrun XD, had to retry several time until having a good plan, tough I was probably at a disadvantage since now every monster has fix LV I assume if I would have play the mod like that since the beginning I probably would have been at an higher LV and more powerfull magic, anyway so beat Odin with around 2:00 left, 1 good thing however it seems the code for Odin's chamber never change  once you enter Centra for the first time, so once you get it memorize the first time if you die you just have to go take the Eye at the top, come back put on the statue above Odin's chamber and put the same code directly, this is good as it win a bunch of time due to that ferning animation when climbing to the statue abover Odin's chamber so the plan is as follow :

-Get to the Blue Orb
-Before interacting with the blue get out of Centra and come back to have more time.
-Defeat the monsters
-Goes to Odin's chamber
-Beat Odin

As for the fights :

-Chimaira + 2 Armadillos : The fastest way I found is put the 2 Armadillos on Berserk then on Zombie kill them with Life since they are in Berserk this prevent them from using Earthquake before dying. The Chimaira is really annoying tough, she has no weakness, no usefull statut ailment works against her and even Demi doesn't work as a result she is a big waste of time, fastest way I found is put Vit 0 with Meltdown, lower Squall's HP and spam his Limit Break.

-Odin : So his new attack Heaven's Wrath despite the name and the animation it doesn't seem to be Lightning elemental weird, so it does 3000 damage and inflict stop, so it's a one shot for me at this point without Shell at first I really didn't see how to beat him before the time reach 0 he has a good defense and lot of HP, is immune to Vit 0 and Demi to (again spamming magic with -aga tier probably would have work but I didn't have any), so my strategy was spamming Squall and Zell limit break with Quistis who has 100 Stop and 100 Reflect junction to statu defense to get immune to Stop as a support so basically :

-At the beginning I put Shell and Double on Quistis.
-Then I wait for him to attack, I then use Double Life on Squall and Zell
-I use Double Cura with Quistis to heal her then she just wait for the next Heaven's Wrath, I use Zell and Squall's Limit break, Squall does 350 per hit but Fated Circle can go up 1700 or double if it crit (very rare), as for Zell well I have the advantage of knowing where Meteor Strike is so despite it being invisible I can use it ^^ and it's good here as Odin has a good physical defense, Dolphin Blow and Mach Kick are decent  but clearly inferior to Meteor Strike who does around 900 in this fight.
-Repeat

So yeah safe strategy but it does work I had 2:00 and reach Odin at around 12:00, so quite fun but will definitly require some die and retry to be done properly, tough again maybe it's just that I'm underlevel and don't have best magics so in this case I think it's fine if I can beat this while being underprepare then someone with better stuff should succeed without to much trouble.

EDIT : As for Tomberry Senior, beat him with the same strat as before no difference, the only difference I notice is that his normal attack does Curse which is of no consequence to me cause the character that I plan to use Limit Break are always on Low HP so they will die from his hit anyway, still didn't see Junk so he is still just an HP Sponge to me.

Will try Fujin and Raijin next.


Quote
edit : in centra , if we leave , tomberry kill is no more reset?

Tomberry kill is never reset I don't know where that legend come from but even in Vanilla you can perfectly kill like 17 tonberries in Disc 2, then progress to the story until Disc 4 and come and you will only have to kill 3 Tonberries, the Tonberry kill will only reset if you make Tonberry King appear and run away from him.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nsandro on 2019-10-09 08:34:01
I read that in my official guide from Peggyback, "Il vous faut maintenant tuer 20 tomberry sans sortir des ruines" and if i translate "You must now kill 20 tomberry without leaving the ruins". i thinks the translation is missing something like " You can leave the ruins for save , but you cant fight another monster because it will reset all tomberry kill"

Thank you
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-09 12:16:05
@Nsandro: Yes, it is as Nesouk said. You can safely escape the Centra Ruins without having to worry about the Tonberry kill counter, as long as you don't interact with the blue orb on the upper levels (if you do, your party will be trapped inside the ruins until Odin is defeated).

@Nesouk:

Spoiler: show
As for Odin, leveling up more would have helped a little indeed. With Regen (from the Guards in D-District Prison) on HP and levels around 30-35, HP would have been over 3000, which should be enough to survive Odin's Heaven's Wrath attack safely with all characters. It's not thunder elemental for now as the fight would likely become too easy otherwise. The idea behind this was to create a battle in which the Spirit stat is of utmost importance, especially in regards to minimize the chance of the entire party falling victim to the Stop effect (it's not very high to begin with, but sometimes happens if Spirit stats are too low). But it's good to know that you managed to win the battle with just one character immune to Stop and durable enough to survive Heaven's Wrath, although I can imagine it was very close.

Other than that, some more things would have helped. For example, Chimera only has low resistance against Degenerator, and maybe it would have been better to make Quistis one of your attackers instead of Zell, as Quistis can use Acid, which ignores enemy Spirit and is faster than Zell's Duel (total damage is lower than a well-performed Duel, but time matters more in this battle). It's also possible to make Odin Vit 0 using Quistis' Ray-Bomb Limit Break, but getting Power Generators is difficult when attempting Centra Ruins at the first opportunity. It's also a good idea to defeat Tonberry King before Odin, so you can draw Curaga from him which is a great help against Odin because of the good junctions effects on HP and Spirit. The ladder climbing speed in the ruins is indeed low and annoying. I'll look for a way to increase it.

In regards to Tonberry King not using his Junk attack, I've just realized what was going on in your case. He is meant to counter with it after he has taken either physical or magical damage five times, but for some reason, Quistis' and Irvine's Limit Breaks will not add towards this meter, despite actually being physical and magical attacks (that's also why the normal Tonberry never counters their Limit Break with Everyone's Grudge). I'll change the counter condition to a general counter, no matter what Tonberry King was last hit with, as being able to circumvent a major counter by just spamming Limit Breaks is not how it should be.

Anyway, thank you for testing the new version so soon. Just to say it advance, Raijin will still use Hi-Potion+, I forgot to change this to Cura.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-09 19:20:33
I read that in my official guide from Peggyback, "Il vous faut maintenant tuer 20 tomberry sans sortir des ruines" and if i translate "You must now kill 20 tomberry without leaving the ruins". i thinks the translation is missing something like " You can leave the ruins for save , but you cant fight another monster because it will reset all tomberry kill"

AH French guy to, yeah for some reason this is a common mistake in french guide and website.

@Callisto :

Spoiler: show
AH I didn't know Acid ignore Defense, in that case then yes replacing Squall by Quistis as the attacker and maybe stocking up AP Ammos with Irvine would have been more effective for Odin, also I always fight Odin first before Tomberry cause to be honnest I despise being on a timer for a boss fight XD.

As for Tonberry Junk "countdown" I should have figure that's already the case in Reloaded, also Zell's Duel wasn't adding to Tonberry's counter cause my refight was with Zell instead of Irvine, also Irvine's limit break is just weird as to how the game handle it like it's suppose to be physical I think BUT :

-His Limit Break doesn't wake up sleeped ennemies unlike Squall's Renzokuken.
-When taking an ennemy with a back attack Irvine's Limit Break doesn't make them turn around (meaning all Irvine's Shots will deal Double Damage in that case).

I don't know if these are just dev's oversights, also the game handle it like an AoE for ennemy's counter, so if you have 2 ennemies that can counter, even if you focus all your shots on 1 ennemy both ennemies will counter XD


EDIT : So for Fujin and Raijin so I fight them without Slow (I didn't try actually so don't know if you immune them or not), so the fight honnestly kind of feel the same, also I actually manage to kill Raijin before he uses Hi-Potion + so whatever you put at the place of the Hi-Potion + just know that it can be skipped, and I did that just by spamming Double Bio on him I suppose this is due to the turn skip unless you manage to remove it from Raijin (I know mexico didn't succeed at it, Raijin is one of the few bosses he didn't found a way to remove it without turning the game into a graphical mess), also Fujin is fragile to physical (5000 with Squall's Darkside) and Metsu is a golden occasion to use Limit Break since it does good damage and Poison boosting the crisis level, the part where she put Aura Stone into a Metsu was interesting but then she use a new attack Aerial Slash who honnestly is a none issue with 70% Wind resistance, actually I wonder if the Aura Stone was for her or for Raijin since I kill Raijin just before she uses it, I honnestly have trouble seeing how we could improve this fight without breaking it's idea (Raijin being the physical dude who hit like a truck and take little damage from physical but weak against magical and Fujin more of a glass canon) or entering into hard mod territory.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nsandro on 2019-10-10 10:34:58
I see Mcindus release i lot of update for remastered version, i hope this mod going to be compatible with FF8R very soon ^^

Where i can give you donation?

Thx
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-11 02:08:02
@Nesouk:

That's some interesting observations regarding Irvine's Limit Break, especially the handling as AoE for counters. I didn't knew that. Sounds like an oversight to me, but I don't think it can be corrected easily. I managed to change Tonberry King's counter behavior though, so that all kinds of Limit Break will add to his counter, and not just a few, like Squall's. Probably wouldn't have noticed this without your help, so thank you. It's always surprising to learn something new about this game after all these years.

Raijin doesn't have any random turn skips in his script, but he will idle if there's only one female party member alive while Fujin is alive, and if Fujin is above 50% max HP (otherwise, he would occasionally heal her). I think you didn't see his healing as you finished him off too fast with Double Bio, and also because of the fact that he uses his healing only once when near death. I haven't noticed the latter until very recently, so I will change the moment he uses his heal to something sooner, and will also increase their defenses a little, so their weak spots aren't as glaring anymore (but of course still weaknesses worth abusing). They can still be slowed down by the way, but their resistance is higher than before, and Aerial Slash was added to have something stronger than Aero, but yes - when at 70% Wind resistance from Aero and Float, it's no problem at all. But better to not go overboard, as you said.


@Nsandro:

I hope so too, and it looks like I can work with most of the files that are relevant to gameplay. Still unsure about a few because of tool incompatibility with the new files (like mngrp.bin that has all the refine data) but in case of doubt, I'll have to apply the changes by hand. I'll send you a PM regarding donation, thanks.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-12 19:51:31
HA I forgot 1 thing about Odin, considering your change maybe it might be better to increase the chance to mug his Luck-J Scroll or make it a reward for winning the fight cause honnestly it's kind of luck base to win the fight with mugging the Luck J Scroll as mugging bosses is kind of a pain in the ass and can take quite some tries before succeeding.

Anyway as for end of Disc 2 especially G-Garden, I like that you add an extra battle when recovering the first Key, but why not go further and do it for all 3 keys ? Would make senses, as for the bosses :

-Cerberus : I haven't try him in the last update so maybe what I will say is outdate (I actually fought him last week forgot to report about him ^^), sadly I forgot to keep a save right before him, so I had to replay some part in order to fight him again, anyway he seems to love using Quake so naturally some Earth protection is needed, he has a good defense so I decide to rely on Irvine's AP Shots, as for when he uses Triple I don't know what spell he can use and honnestly I don't care, the simple fact that when in his Triple stance he counter with a guaranteed Critical Hit was enough to set my mind on dispeling him right away goddamn his counter hurts, so yeah I just keep him dispelled, use Irvine's AP Shot whenever I got the chance and Squall and Quistis as back up also he doesn't have Spd-J Scroll to steal anymore well that's unfortunate for me ^^.

-Seifer : Very easy, I can actually kill him with 2 Duels if I get lucky and got a good timer, an easy strat to cheese him is to make the middle character which was Squall with Cover cast Protect and shell on him then cast Reflect on the other as long as I keep Squall alive the 2 other are invincible and he can't one shot him (his Demon Slice does 3000 damage with Protect tough), so the 2 other team mates are free to spam their Limit Break or do whatever they want ^^.

-Seifer + Edea : First doing the exact same strat, except this time I use this to pull off a Cerberus summon to get Triple (Cerberus as only 600HP so I needed a way to prevent Seifer to kill him), since Seifer is almost completly harmless with a character with Cover and Fire Protection I put Protect, Shell and Haste on everyone (not Reflect cause if you keep the Reflect up Edea will eventually resolve to spam Ebon Wave which is honnestly annoying), once set I kill Seifer with Duel and make absolutly sure that 1 character can act. Seifer's Protect on Edea while dying is kind of useless cause we already has access to Dispel so yeah whatever, Edea open directly with Maelstrom have to cast a Triple Haste to get rid of the Slow, Edea's most annoying attacks are Ebon Wave, Maelstrom and Death but I make tactical mistake that screwed up my plan, first off I forgot to put back the Draw command for Selphie and Squall so I had to heal Zell to Draw Alexander. Funny enough the hardest part isn't beating her it's tanking her while mugging her ferning item took quite sometime, but it's worth it as she has a Royal Crow (Mgi + 30%) to mug, after that she is weak to physical so I just put Squall on low HP and the 2 other on support and spam his Limit Break while healing until she fall. So overall it's not to hard but it's a fun fight.

EDIT : Progressing through disc 3 now :

-Did grind a bit manage to get High-Mgi-RF with that I stock up -aga tier spell as well as Quake and Tornado to my character Tornado being my best spell to Junction to Strength.

-Ruby Dragon with Laguna and co : Just make sure to constantly be on Protect and Shell and have at least 2 character in Double should be enough to heal his damage, main damage way is Double Blizzaga deal around 7000 damage on him.

-Salt Lake : The Lefty hand are rough with Quake and Meteor compare to it the Righty hand are kinda pathetic, but overall it's a short area so not really much to say about it. I must say I'm not sure if there is a point playing Edea here, she has a very good magic and spirit stat, but playing her mean no EXP for one of the main characters so not sure I'm gonna use her outside of the part she is forced in.

-Abadon : Man I'm still have nightmare of this guy on Reloaded (man easily one of the hardest storyline boss in Reloaded) and also of Requiem (the fact that he could use Rapture was one of the most bullshit thing of Requiem), fortunatly is neither hard and doesn't pull off cheap stuff like that overall an easy yet fun boss so basically he has to stance when he is seat down he mostly use physical, he Claw attack doesn't hurt to much with protect, his tongue attack is even less powerfull but has a chance of instant-kill the target, on this stance he low defenses especially magic defense Quistis could around 5800 with Firaga, 6500 with Curaga and almost 9000 with Holy so magic is definitly the way to go, Irvine can deal good damage thanks to his Fire Shot (around 780 per Ammo 1560 if it Crit I think the max shot I got was 8 and the lowest 4 so that's around 3120 to 6240 (no counting crit), so basically for this stance I put Protect on Squall and Quistis, Squall is mainly my tank, set Double on Quistis and the she is my main Magic Damage dealer, Irvine is in low HP and spam his limit break.
Once he stand up he switch to a more magic base offense, he also get a HUGE boost in Defense as well as Auto-Shell so Quistis can still get good damage with Curaga (around 6000 with Double) since Healing spell ignore Spirit, Irvine is an even est source of Damage her thanks to AP Shot (deal around 750 per shot (1500 a crit) so that's 2250 to 4500), as for Defense well to put it simply Reflect make almost all of his spells irrelevant as they bounce back to him the only exception is Quake but I can simply immune my self to Earth thanks to 100 Quake to the Elemental defense, so the stand up stance is effectivly harmless against me ^^.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nsandro on 2019-10-13 21:02:56
Just killing Odin in 2 turns ( i spam lb of team), the fight before was more hard ?
Lvl 22/31/16 with 100 quake/tornado in str
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-13 21:44:08
Well I didn't have Quake or Tornado of course with spell like that to junction you should be able to kill him very fast, how did you get them ?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2019-10-14 01:16:02
Hey there! Will this ever be added to the remaster? Bc my god, this is too good of a mod to miss out on! lol, i've mostly just been focusing on the remaster version, because personally i feel like it'll be the more favored version of the future. :)
Keep up the great work though! I'll be keeping track of the updates as time goes on, bc it's looking very promising! :D
One of the best mods around, for sure!
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-14 13:48:37
Probably an oversight balance wise, so the Propagators are a complete joke, as they can be berserked just have either Squall or Linoa with Initiative and cast Berserk at the beginning and it's GG, as a consequence the Purple Propagators can drop Aura Stone which means it's extremely to just farm the Purple Propagators over and over to get as much Aura Stones as you want.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-14 14:57:08
@Nsandro:

I assume you got Odin on disc 3? If so, then I think being able to rush him down with an appropriate setup is alright. He is supposed to be a challenge when attempting Centra Ruins right away after getting control over Balamb Garden, when there are no Speed Junctions or high-tier spells available yet. It's unfortunately very difficult to keep an enemy challenging for the entire game, no matter your setup (at least if you want to keep him beatable on disc 2). But I'll see what I can do to make him be at a higher level for discs 3 and 4, without enabling level scaling. Thank you very much for the donation by the way. Much appreciated.


@Nesouk:

Tornado and Quake are available on disc 2, but getting them takes time. For Tornado, you can steal Windmills from the Abyss Worms in Kashkabald Desert on Centra, but they don't appear very often. One Windmill refines into 20 Tornados using T-Mag RF, as usual. For Quake, you would need to get the Tonberry GF first, and then use LV Up on an T-Rexaur on Balamb or in Balamb Garden Training Center so you can draw it from him.

The Aura Stones from the Propagators are actually not an oversight, and rather meant as an opportunity to get a few for those who are patient. They should drop only rarely, with a chance of about 5%. How many did you get? If it's too many, I'll change the drops for sure.

Thanks a lot for the progress report otherwise. Cerberus can use Break when under Triple and will only target characters without Break status when using it and yes, his tail attack still hurts. So he should be dispelled as soon as possible, but maybe you noticed he counters Dispel with a standard physical attack since the latest version. This has been implemented so he can no longer be staggered easily after using Triple on himself. As for Duel, it looks like it's still performing very well for you, as you rushed Seifer down so easily using it, so I guess something needs to be done about it sooner or later. Also Righty's physical attacks should be a little stronger indeed. Well observed. 

Just to say it in advance, there is an issue with Jumbo Cactuar not attacking. It'll be fixed by tomorrow.


@HeavensFury:

Thank you. Yes, it will be added to the Remaster version, unless I end up in a dead end in regards to file editing, as file structure is a little different compared to the 2013 version. Can't say when though. Probably takes a few more months.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-14 16:56:28
For Tornado and Quake well I did encounter Abyss Worm but when I mugged him he gave me a Mystery Fluid so I thought Windmill were removes or high Level only XD, but I wasn't seeking for Tornado and Quake, disc 2 was easy enough without these so I think it would have just been overkill ^^

For Zell's Duel I kinda want to wait and see how it perform on boss with higher VIT later especially now that I unlocked all his finisher would like to see if using them is worth it, also for Seifer that's honnestly was just lucky I got 7.33 seconds 2 time in the row of course that ended up being brutal for him. Also I'm not always to perform at his best, didn't mention it but I don't know if it's just personnal issue but sometime I got some weird lag input on Zell's Limit Break which of course mess up my input and timing this happen often and it's annoying. And also now that I got meant to use Triple, Angel Wing and more of Quistis's blue I would like to see how Duel performs compare to these would need a good test subject for that.

By the way I kinda have mix feeling about Linoa's Angel Wing, from what I test she can use Ultima, Flare, Meteor, Holy, Bio, Pain, Firaga, Blizzaga, Thundaga and Demi and her selection don't depend of what is in her inventory, I guess you did that for avoid the infamous Angel Wing Meteor tactics, but I kind of feel the Limit Break isn't as practical since you have no more control on it basically it's impossible to set her for exploit elemental weakness or avoid elemental resistance, also Demi is waste of turn if she uses it on something immune to it.

As for Aura Stones from Propagator I actually just got lucky and get 2 Aura Stones in the row on my 2 first fights against the Purple one since then I didn't get any so that was just pure luck on my side, but I'm gonna farm them anyway theyr are so easy to kill might as well finish teaching my GF's ability as much as I can with them ^^.

EDIT : Well since Jumbo Cactuar currently can't act I guess I can use him for Damage testing, he is good cause he has quite an high Vit which is what I was seeking for Zell's Duel (Jumbo Cactuar is perfect as he has so much Vit that even Critical Dolphin Blow doesn't do as much Damage as a normal Meteor Strike XD) and he has an elemental weakness so I tested various thing with the following stats :

-Squall : 162 Str, 100 Water to Ele Atk
-Zell : 167 Str
-Rinoa : 168 Mgi
-Quistis : 150 Mgi
-Irvine : 137 Str and 89 Luck

And so the results :

-Zell's Duel with 9.33 seconds : 38353 (22 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 5.66 seconds : 20999 (14 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 7.66 seconds : 29596 (16 hits)
-Zell's Duel with 3.66 seconds : 15791 (9 hits)

-Rinoa's Triple Water with 168 Mgi : 17700-19800

-Quistis's Aqua Breath : 14000-19000
-Quistis's Homing Laser : 7600-18000

-Irvine's AP Shot : around 1600 per shot 3200 with Crit so 3200 up to 9600 Crit excluded (theorically could reach around 19200)
-Irvine's Quick Shot : average of 260 (520 with Crit) per shot manage to shot 31 Ammos at best (maybe could shot more ammo) so 8060
-Irvine's Canister Shot : around 1200 per shot (2400 with Crit) so up to 6800 crit excluded (PS : Seems to have a far higher Crit Rate than AP Shot)
-Irvine's Pulse Ammo : Around 1500 per shot so 9000 damage at best (double with Crit)

-Squall with Darkside : 7000-8000
-Squall's Renzokuken : Around 1200 per successfull hit meaning 8400 on Jumbo Cactuar (fix sequence of 7 hits), Fated Circle does around 3700

OK so for observation out of this :

Zell's Duel is the big one, the damage vary depending of the number of Critical and especially which moves crit, as of now I think the biggest factor here is Meteor strike that move alone can up to 5000 if it Crit that almost the double of a Dolphin Blow's crit, the 9.33's 22 hits chain included 5 Meteor Strike 3 of them were crit these 5 almost deal half of the total damage so I can imagine if we were to find a loop that include more Meteor Strike (the loop I'm using currently include only 2 Meteor Strikes) by the way the loop I'm using currently is the following

1-Meteor Strike (Start with Booya here for 7.66s and 9.33s timer)
2-Dolphin Blow
3-Mach Kick
4-Dolphin Blow (Start with Punch Rush here for 3.66s and 5.66s timer)
5-Mach Kick
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
8-Meteor Strike
9-Dolphin Blow

(EDIT : While I was writing this I manage to found a better loop but didn't get numbers for it ^^")

EDIT 2 : Get the number for the new one :

3.66 second : 19468 (10 hits)
5.66 second : 27707 (15 hits)
7.66 second : 29792 (17 hits)
9.33 second : 43637 (23 hits)

New loop is as follow :

If timer is 3.66 of 5.66 (start with Punch Rush) then :
1-Dolphin Blow
2-Mach Kick
3-Dolphin Blow
4-Heel Drop
5-Meteor Strike
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
9-Meteor Strike
Back to number 6 (Dolphin Blow) just chain Dolphin Blow, Heel Drop and Meteor Strike as much as you can from there.

If timer is 7.66 or 9.33 (start with Booya) then :
1-Meteor Strike
2-Dolphin Blow
3-Mach Kick
4-Dolphin Blow
5-Mach Kick
6-Dolphin Blow
7-Heel Drop
8-Meteor Strike
9-Dolphin Blow
10-Heel Drop
11-Meteor Strike
Back to number 9 (Dolphin Blow) keep chaining Dolphin Blow, Heel Drop and Meteor Strike as much as you can from there.


As for the finisher, they honnestly feel kinda useless like my Final Heaven dealt 3320 (no crit) the one time I tried it they don't seem worth it, my suggestions would be :

-Nerf Dolphin Blow a little (currently can reach 2600 damage with Crit on Jumbo Cactuar, if you can drop it to 1800-2000 on average with Crit on Jumbo Cactuar with the Stat I give that would be good)
-Make Meteor Strike respecting ennemy's Vitality but slighty stronger than Dolphin Blow (the power of actual Dolphin Blow would do I think)
-Make the Finishers ignore Vitality (and adjust their Power for it) or increase their power by a lot, maybe not Burning Rave as it's available right away and for now Burning Rave is good for an early game move, but the 3 others aren't available until quite later and as of now once they became available there's no reason to use them over doing a chain with as much Dolphin Blows and Meteor Strikes as possible.

Outside of Duel the balance seems fine overall for now just the following  notes :

-If Jumbo Cactuar is one of the ennemies with highest Vit possible then I guess Irvine's Limit Break is fine, but if not then I'm bugged by the fact that AP Ammo are his best Ammos, I think AP Ammo should be the best option only against the bosses that has the highest Vit possible, on bosses with average Vit I think it would be fair to make at least Pulse Ammo and Demolition Ammo deal more damage than AP Ammo.

-Squall's Renzokuken seems weak compare to Irvine and Zell's Limit Break, I'm fine with Darkside being a better option if the ennemy has an elemental weakness, but I dunno currently Squall's Limit Break seems very weak for a Limit Break, maybe it will get better with Lion Heart I don't know.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-15 18:39:42
Updated the latest version with a Documentation folder and few changes recently discussed:


@Nesouk:

Thanks a lot for all the testing and numbers. Jumbo Cactuar's Vitality stat is at 148, and many of the upcoming bosses will have around the same Vitality, so it should be easy to make general adjustments based on your recent damage test on Jumbo Cactuar. Irvine's Shots don't seem to differ in total damage a lot, but differences should become more noticable as you increase Irvine's Strength further. Canister Shot has in fact the highest critical hit rate of all shots to give it an edge over Armor and Hyper Shots in certain situations (in the base game, there's hardly a reason to use it at all).

As for Duel, yes, it seems to be in need of a change, as it does way more damage than the other Limit Breaks even on higher Vit enemies when repeating certain combos fast enough. Your ideas about how to change Meteor Strike and Finishers sound good, but I guess something about move sequences should be done as well (I've been quite hesitant about the latter as changing it can result in glitches - sometimes even game-breaking ones).

Other than that, I understand your worries about Rinoa's Angel Wing, but if you use it a little more, you will notice that she casts non-elemental spells most of the time (Flare is the most common one with a 25% probability), so this Limit Break should be most useful on enemies without any major elemental strengths or weaknesses. I left Demi in as it has the ability to actually kill enemies when used under Angel Wing, but I see using Angel Wing against normal enemies is hardly worth it, so maybe it will be replaced or removed from the spell table soon. I'll post the whole table later so you can make more suggestions if you like.

 
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-15 21:38:35
I actually run the same test using a Save Editor to make my character LV100 and best junction stats to Str/Mgi/luck and so here how it goes :

Irvine 255 in Str and 126 in Luck :
AP Ammo : 5700 per shot (Up to 34200 crit excluded)
Pulse Ammo : 5000 per shot (Up to 30000 crit excluded)
Demoliton Ammo : 4200 per shot (Up to 25200 crit excluded)
Fast Ammo : 850 per shot (26350 crit excluded)
Darkside : 24000-26000 with Crit (Irvine Crit Rate is good enough for Darkside to be a good option for him)

Rinoa with 255 Mgi :
Triple Water : 26400
Triple Meteor : 30000

Zell with 255 in Str and 104 in Luck :
3.66 second : 36800 (9 hits)
5.66 second : 54355 (12 hits)
7.66 second : 89574 (18 hits)
9.33 second : 115493 (26 hits)

Squall with 255 Str and 100 Water to ele atk :
Darkside : 17500-19500
Renzokuken : 2900 per succesfull hits so 20300 on Jumbo Cactuar, Fated Circle does 9100 (double with Crit)

Quistis with 255 Mgi :
Aqua Breath : 16000-24000
Homing Laser : 12000

So yeah Zell's Duel definitly need a nerf in one way or another, I'm honnestly amaze that nobody picked up how freaking strong Duel can be before, I mean even with the lowest timer possible he does more damage in 1 turn than pretty much anything else, and with highest timer possible that is the best damage here I don't think anything come close (except maybe the Lion Heart) (and we are note even mentionning if the target can get hit with Vit 0) and as expected of FFVIII Physical scale way more with higher Level than Magic that's hold true here as Irvine's Limit Break can compete with Magic on higher LV and even Squall's Renzokuken get good with finisher.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-17 21:57:43
Thanks for the latest results. You seem to be quite fast with the inputs, and it honestly took me quite some time to reach the same number of hits when checking it out myself today.

Of course, more than 100k damage is way too much on an enemy that has a decent Vitality stat. So for now, I further reduced Duel time limits and Dolphin Blow base power, also made Meteor Strike respect enemy Vitality (but increased its base power) and got the following results on Jumbo Cactuar:

Zell with 255 Str and 104 Luck:
3.66 seconds: 21202 (8 hits)
5.00 seconds: 29182 (11 hits)
6.33 seconds: 38529 (14 hits)
7.66 seconds: 46713 (17 hits)

That's still more than most other characters can do, but if you keep in mind that Duel is the most skill-based Limit Break in the game, and also that it requires a good Luck stat to achieve above results, I think it's ok that it's superior in most situations, depending on input speed and finding a good move sequence. Feel free to check it out yourself by putting these main files (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jho5d-6MLcCuKBAaGPeudkDX9m2apD_c) in your lang-en folder.

As for AP Ammo vs Pulse Ammo, there is a good number of end-game bosses that take more damage from Pulse Ammo (and probably even from Demolition Ammo, due to its higher critical hit rate):

Fujin
Mobile Type 8
Adel
TC Sorceresses
Sphinxara/Sphinxaur
Catoblepas
Tiamat
Omega Weapon
All final boss forms (except Griever)

The Angel Wing spell table currently looks as follows:

Code: [Select]
Flare 64/256
Meltdown 32/256
Meteor 24/256
Ultima 23/256
Holy 20/256
Quake 12/256
Tornado 12/256
Firaga 12/256
Thundaga 12/256
Blizzaga 12/256
Water 8/256
Bio 8/256
Pain 8/256
Demi 8/256
??? 1/256
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-18 05:13:42
Number for Zell's duel seems more reasonable indeed, I also tested more Angel Wing seems indeed more viable than I thought as long as the ennemy doesn't absorb an element also what is the ??? in the table ?

So anyway beat Jumbo Cactuar and Bahamut recently :

-Jumbo Cactuar : Well the challenge seems more to defeat him before he runs away than anything else, his normal physical hit like  truck tough and could one-shot my LV35 Rinoa if she hasn't Protect, also love to use Ker Plunk I think that is the move he uses the more, Sand Storm is honnestly not threatning it does around 1000 and that's it and he also like to make you waste your time with Mighty Guard and 10000 Needles counter (which seems to come faster when you use dispel on him by the way), so I decided to take Rinoa and Quistis and just spam Double Water on him with Squall as a support and that's pretty much it just heal when needed, dispel his mighty guard revive when the 10000 needles counter happen and that should do it.

Before going for Bahamut I get Doomtrain which I forgot to take, the I wanted to see the Island Closest to Hell and Closest to heaven, seems they are fix at LV100, so I gain a couple of LV here and grind Pampas in order to learn abilities (mostly Auto-Haste for Cerberus) before going for Bahamut :

-Like the fact that instead of 2 Ruby Dragon we fight 1 Ruby Dragon then 1 Behemoth, altough the 2 are defeated the same way, Irvine is MVP here and can put both of them to sleep easily and slow with his Dark Ammos, so just has to use magic and Ammos while they are sleeping.

-Bahamut is tougher than Jumbo Cactuar but still manageable, just have to get immune to Stop because of Mind Blast, Irvine was my main damage dealer with AP Shot, Squall was in charge of mugging him (he has an Hyper Wrist for Str+30% so nice) then he and Selphie are on support, setting Protect, Shell and Haste on both they are pretty safe, Selphie is really good thanks to her natural speed, speed junction, Auto Haste and Spd+30% she sometime can act 2 times before Bahamut'snext turn. The most dangerous attacks for me are his normal attack which like a truck, Mega Flare who does 3000 damage with Shell and Maelstrom who set Slow and reduce your HP (I wasn't expecting this attack had I know I would have immune Squall to Slow as well thank god for Selphie having Auto Haste). So yeah Irvine does damage and Squall and Selphie heal, buff and revive Irvine, it did go well just a long fight.

So get Bahamut and Forbide-Mgi-RF with it, so back to Esthar as I wanted to check if you remove that weird black Esthar Soldier or not and you didn't so that's cool the thing with this guy is when you talk to him it put you in a unescapable battle against an Elnoyle, don't know what he is suppose to be, maybe it was gonna be part of a sidequest but they give up and forgot to remove him, but this is convenient cause Elnoyle is a pretty rare ennemy otherwise thanks to this dude you can just fight Elnoyles over and over (as the dude respawn by exit and reenter the area). So first I got the Moon Stones for the Lion Heart by mugging him and also the Pulse Ammo by killing him to get Energy Crystal, and now currently doing the biggest grind up to now which is kill this guy 30 times in order to get 60 Energy Crystals and so get 100 Ultimas on everyone (probably gonna do it more in order to have a good stock of Pulse Ammos as well).
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-18 17:37:46
Well defeated Ultima Weapon reaching it wasn't tough :

-Tri-Face dies very fast I take advantage of them to get 100 Curse Spikes to get a Dark Matter to learn Shockwave Pulsar, also modde Bahamut Card into Shaman Stone for Irvine's final weapon, in any case Tri-Face are weak to Fire, Earth and Holy just have to junction this element to elemental attack for Squall and Irvine/Zell and they are killed in no time.

-Imp + Grendel : 100 Holy to Elemental attack and Squall can deal over 50k damage with Darkside to the Imp effectivly one shotting them while Quistis can Degenerator on the Grendel both with Initiative.

-Behemoth : They can be Berserked and put to sleep so Quistis's Homing Laser is really good to put opponent to sleep then Quistis can just set Vit 0 with Ray Bomb and kill them with Shockwave Pulsar (was reaching around 45k at best).

-Ruby Dragon : Same strat as Behemoth except I also use Double Blizzaga with Rinoa to speed things up.

-2 Iron Giant : Quistis with Initiative can neutralize them with Bad Breath with either Sleep or Blind then just spam Shockwave Pulsar until they die.

Now for Ultima Weapon, once I saw he had Triple to draw I decided to draw 300 Triple out of him as for now I didn't found anyway to get it, to do that I took an entirely magical team with Squall, Quistis and Rinoa.
That being done this is easily the hardest fight of the mod so far and this fight is hard because of 2 moves really, first is Light Pillar is it magical or physical I don't know but Protect seems to half it's damage but despite having the highest vit by far Squall was taking more damage from it than Quistis and Rinoa, in any case Light Pillar is a OHKO regardless dealing more than 9999, the second worse move is even worst Vengeance not only he deals decent damage (enough so that if Ultima Weapon use Ultima before we can heal it can end the fight pretty easily) but it also dispel all buffs a very nasty moves right there, in other word this fight is basically like the Dragon Quest bosses that have disrupted wave if he decides to spam Vengeance this fight can become very annoying very fast fortunatly I found a way around it so the strat was as follow :

-I change my junction in order for Quistis to have the lower Spr of my team, my goal was to make sure Ultima would put her in the range of using her Limit Break, I also make Rinoa's spr slightly lower to for the same purpose, Quistis also has Auto-Protect as otherwise Ultima Weapon's normal attack could one shot if he crit.
-The beginning of the fight he doesn't use Vengeance right away so I can safely buff just has to revive if he uses Light Pillar once I'm done Drawing the triple I start damaging him using Triple Flare with Rinoa.
-Once he uses Vengeance I purposely cast Pain on Quistis so that she get statut Effect which boost her Crisis Level, thanks to this a simple vengeance is enough for Quistis to use her Limit Break, so Quistis can heal out of everything (mainly Vengeance and Ultima) with White Wind.
-As for damage as soon as I get the chance I put Rinoa in Angel Wing, thanks to that I have a good offense that Ultima Weapon can't interrupt, Rinoa can deal up to around 20k with Ultima, Meteor, Flare and Holy less with other spells.
-And so from now on Squall just keep Protect on Rinoa, heal when Ultima use his normal attack and Revive if Light Pillar is thrown
-Quistis use her White Wind whenever Vengeance or Ultima are casted

So this strat is rather risky but it worked out in the end so yeah that was a fun and challenging fight.

EDIT : Just I wanted to run a damage test with Zell's Duel modification, I thought I would try on Iron Giant at Tear's Point, I think he has even more Vit than Jumbo Cactuar however so how much does Vit Iron Giants have at Tear's Point ?

Also I think Duel's finisher are in a good position now, my Final Heaven is an awesome AoE can deal up to around 38k if the target has Vit 0 and it crit, on an Iron Giant My Final Heaven does around 4500-5000 and around 10000 if it crit, this is really good to finish a combo currently a Non-Crit My Final Heaven does more damage that a Crit Meteor Strike considering My Final Heaven inputs are pretty easy it's a cool way to finish a combo.

Speaking of which I forgot to say that I also did the new Lunatic Pandora lab battles before Deep Sea and Geez Zell and Quistis are an amazing duo for these fights, just set Vit 0 on all of them with Ray Bomb then a Duel with Zell and conclude with My Final Heaven and laugh at Zell hitting the poor dudes for 19k (38k if it crit) XD, Elastoid seems immune to Vit 0 tough so My Final Heaven only does 8k (non crit, yeah Vit 0 really make a HUGE difference).

EDIT : Well did the Fire Cavern revisit quest, like it so basically it's just like Deep Sea, fix encounter on all areas and a boss at the end so :

-Armadillo + 2 Turtapod : Put the Armadillo on berserk to avoid Earthquake, Zell use his Duel, My Final Heaven is enough to kill the Turtapod so I just target the Armadillo to kill all 3, while Squall is covering Zell.

-Ruby Dragon + 2 big fish : The must annoying fight seems that without Quistis or Irvine putting the Ruby Dragon to sleep is hard but at least Slow work, the big fishs can be berserked so they are a non issue, need 2 My Final Heaven to kill them with Slow I should have the time to do it before the Ruby Dragon use Ruby Breath which hurt like a truck and will kill Zell, so I put Protect on Selphie and Squall so they can survive, Squall with Darkside and 100 Blizzaga to Ele Atk can finish off the Ruby Dragon as he hit for almost 20k with the damage Zell deal he should die fast.

-2 Hexdragons : Doesn't have a lot of HP and with Fire Protection they aren't to threatning, Zell's Duel and Selphie use Water spell they should die fast.

-2 Elnoyles : Despite being the last fight it's the easiest, this guy can easily be put on Vit 0 and with Vit 0 Zell's Duel is deadly and My Final Heaven alone can hit for 38k if it crit

-Boosted Bomb : Alright good job on this fight, really tricky the bastard has huge Defense and Magic Defense complete with Auto-Protect and Auto-Shell, his physical attacks are pretty strong as well as Flare, and everytime we hit him he heal for 17k-18k, so yeah even AP Shot wouldn't be enough to one shot him, also he destroy your GF once you attempt to use them, and he also heal himself if Flare is reflected at him. So honnestly the only way I found to beat is soloing him using Squall with Auto-Haste, Spd + 30%, Mgi + 30% and Return Damage, Return Damage is the only way I found to damage him without making him heal, so I just cast a Renew at the beginning of the fight (awesome spell by the way) and just try to stay alive while Return Damage kill him. Also at the end he uses Suicide on himself not sure if that was intended XD.

So now Zell finally got his final weapon.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-21 03:41:17
-Ultima Weapon: Light Pillar has been changed from 9999 fixed damage to the most powerful single-hit physical attack in the game with a 100% crit chance. So it can be survived, but Vitality requirements are very high. Vengeance won't be used before turn 17 to give players more time to draw Triple or Ultima spells. After turn 17, it will be used at set intervals (every 4th turn), so Ultima Weapon won't be able to spam it to keep things in check.

-Iron Giants have around 190 Vitality no matter where they are encountered, so most physical attacks will be next to useless against them. They retain their weakness against Gravity attacks though, so using one or two Gravity Bombs (new item), and then some Thundagas is a good alternative to finish them off. But of course, Shockwave Pulsar works very well too, due their naturally low Spirit stat.

-Lunatic Pandora Laboratory battles: It's really good to hear that you found a use for Quistis' Ray Bomb here. I never liked that it was next to useless in the base game, so it now reliably inflicts Vit 0, as long as the target is not immune to it. But using AoEs is actually quite risky against the 3 Cyborgs, as in this particular battle, each one has a 50% chance to cast Ultima upon defeat.

-Fire Cavern sidequest: Bomb using Suicide on himself at the end was not planned. I wanted it to target the character who last attacked, and in case it dies from a Counter or Return Damage, do nothing and just die. Guess it isn't as easy though, so I'll make it target a random party member instead.

Thanks for all the feedback again. It's interesting to read about the various strategies you've tried, like Angel Wing working for you against Ultima Weapon, which I'm pleased to hear. Also always good to get some feedback about the additional sidequests - so I guess the battles at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory could be made a little more difficult, and Elnoyle could be made immune to Vit 0, or perhaps be made an undead enemy to raise its natural defense against physical attacks (at least it would fit quite well).

Spoiler: show
The spell with the 1/256 probability is Apocalypse.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-21 05:17:09
-Ultima Weapon: Light Pillar has been changed from 9999 fixed damage to the most powerful single-hit physical attack in the game with a 100% crit chance. So it can be survived, but Vitality requirements are very high. Vengeance won't be used before turn 17 to give players more time to draw Triple or Ultima spells. After turn 17, it will be used at set intervals (every 4th turn), so Ultima Weapon won't be able to spam it to keep things in check.

Well thought then regarding leaving the player time to draw, I guess I don't have enough vit at the moment to survive it,

-Iron Giants have around 190 Vitality no matter where they are encountered, so most physical attacks will be next to useless against them. They retain their weakness against Gravity attacks though, so using one or two Gravity Bombs (new item), and then some Thundagas is a good alternative to finish them off. But of course, Shockwave Pulsar works very well too, due their naturally low Spirit stat.

So they have an even higher Vit than Jumbo Cactuar as I thought no wonder Zell's Duel damage for my testing were lower than the one you give for Jumbo Cactuar. But Yeah I figure Magic, Gravity and Statut Effect were the way to go against them.

-Lunatic Pandora Laboratory battles: It's really good to hear that you found a use for Quistis' Ray Bomb here. I never liked that it was next to useless in the base game, so it now reliably inflicts Vit 0, as long as the target is not immune to it. But using AoEs is actually quite risky against the 3 Cyborgs, as in this particular battle, each one has a 50% chance to cast Ultima upon defeat.

Yeah Ray Bomb is good in this mod probably the best way to inflict Vit 0 hands down, it was definitly a useless move in the base game and even in other mod like Requiem and Reloaded, especially for how hard it is to get it if you didn't do anything in Laguna's second flashback.

Thanks for all the feedback again. It's interesting to read about the various strategies you've tried, like Angel Wing working for you against Ultima Weapon, which I'm pleased to hear. Also always good to get some feedback about the additional sidequests - so I guess the battles at Lunatic Pandora Laboratory could be made a little more difficult, and Elnoyle could be made immune to Vit 0, or perhaps be made an undead enemy to raise its natural defense against physical attacks (at least it would fit quite well).

Or make Elnoyle resistance to statut effect as great as Ruby Dragons, currently Ruby Dragon can be slowed, sleeped and put to Vit 0 however inflicting these with regular Magic is almost impossible you have to use Limit Break (Quistis's Bad Breath, Homing Laser, Ray Bomb or Irvine's Dark Ammo) to have reasonnable chance of inflicting them, which I think it's fine for some of the toughest ennemies in the game.
Also regarding regular ennemies while I like that Statut Effect are usefull overall I feel there is to much ennemies that can be Berserked, which completly Trivialize them most notorious are Blue Dragon and Behemoths which I feel should be strong regular encounter (especially since most of the time they are alone), and overall Berserk + Blind combo has been a pretty consistent strat against regular ennemies.

Regarding Angel Wing honnestly this is the Limit Break that beneficiate the most from the Damage Limit being remove, outside of Meteor it was a useless Limit Break cause none of the other Spell could break the damage limit of 9999 due to that outside of Meteor it was always better to do a triple cast than Angel Wing, I wasn't sure about removing any sort of control the player have over it by making Rinoa's spell selection independant of her magic inventory, but considering this is a relativly safe offensive option (you lose control of Rinoa but the fact that it immune her to most crippling statut effects and unlike other Limit Break you can heal her and not give a damn about Crisis Level somewhat make up for that), on Ultima Weapon the lowest damage Rinoa could do was 8800 with Bio (didn't get any Pain tough) so from 8000 to 20000 per turn is fine considering it require 0 input on the players part.

So By the way regarding new sidequest :

-The Ruby Dragon of Trabia Canyon : A good fight can definitly caught you off guard the first time, being immune to Zombie and Berserk is a very good idea in this fight, he seems to act in a set pattern from what I understand and counter Regular attack by Pain, Limit Break by normal attacks and Magic by casting Reflect on himself, Putrefy is a nasty move setting Zombie on everyone, so I casted Triple on Rinoa who then cast Renew on everyone, main damage dealer was then Squall with Darkside and 100 Blizzaga to Ele atk he could deal almost 20k and also Irvine if he ever got the chance with AP Ammo can definitly do some serious damage (AP Shot does 5000, 10k with a crit), and I really should have done this quest earlier as the Dark Matter you as a reward is now pretty much useless to me as I already got shockwave Pulsar and Ultima.

-Saving the little girl at Esthar : Fight against 2 Behemoth Berserk make them powerless, then they have a pretty low Physical defense so I used Irvine with Darkside with Crit he can deal around 28k and he has a pretty good crit rate.

Also I'm trying to do Odine seeking for Mithryl sidequest, I got the Goddess bell item, but it doesn't appear in my inventory, when I go to the Tomb of the Unknown King I can't find the Rare Adamantoise anywhere so am I missing something here ?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-21 14:30:16
Or make Elnoyle resistance to statut effect as great as Ruby Dragons, currently Ruby Dragon can be slowed, sleeped and put to Vit 0 however inflicting these with regular Magic is almost impossible you have to use Limit Break (Quistis's Bad Breath, Homing Laser, Ray Bomb or Irvine's Dark Ammo) to have reasonnable chance of inflicting them, which I think it's fine for some of the toughest ennemies in the game.
Also regarding regular ennemies while I like that Statut Effect are usefull overall I feel there is to much ennemies that can be Berserked, which completly Trivialize them most notorious are Blue Dragon and Behemoths which I feel should be strong regular encounter (especially since most of the time they are alone), and overall Berserk + Blind combo has been a pretty consistent strat against regular ennemies.
Ok, will do something to make Elnoyles a little more resilient, but will probably leave the Degenerator back door open, so farming Elnoyle in Esthar won't be overly time-consuming. What I would really like to do is changing enemy status resistance dynamically for the same enemy, mid-battle or depending on battle. It can be done for elemental resistance (see Blobras or Thrustaevises), but in the case of status effects, it looks like a similar enemy AI instruction doesn't exist, unfortunately.

Berserk is indeed quite a cheap way of dealing with certain enemies, as they don't even get the increased Strength when berserked, and just use their regular physical attack unbuffed in almost all cases. It's possible to control which attack enemies use when under Berserk though, and I already managed to make Iguions actually inflict more damage when under Berserk, but a lot more enemies should get that treatment, so using Berserk always comes with a risk, especially if enemies are not blinded at the same time. It will take a little time, but more changes to enemy Berserk behavior will follow soon.

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Regarding Angel Wing honnestly this is the Limit Break that beneficiate the most from the Damage Limit being remove, outside of Meteor it was a useless Limit Break cause none of the other Spell could break the damage limit of 9999 due to that outside of Meteor it was always better to do a triple cast than Angel Wing, I wasn't sure about removing any sort of control the player have over it by making Rinoa's spell selection independant of her magic inventory, but considering this is a relativly safe offensive option (you lose control of Rinoa but the fact that it immune her to most crippling statut effects and unlike other Limit Break you can heal her and not give a damn about Crisis Level somewhat make up for that), on Ultima Weapon the lowest damage Rinoa could do was 8800 with Bio (didn't get any Pain tough) so from 8000 to 20000 per turn is fine considering it require 0 input on the players part.
Yes, especially the last point you made is actually very important in tougher battles, as no time needs to be spend on selecting Commands or targets, so the enemy won't be able to interrupt your actions as often. So I think Angel Wing is currently in a reasonable spot overall. I'll probably remove Demi from the table though, to make it slightly more useful. I can imagine it's quite frustrating if Rinoa uses it against bosses.

As for the new sidequest in Esthar, you have everything you need to find the Adamantoises inside Tomb of the Unknown King (the Goddess Bell is rather just a variable than a real item; too bad there's no inventory for key items in this game). Have you already looked at the middle tower from all possible angles?
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-21 21:14:15
Ok, will do something to make Elnoyles a little more resilient, but will probably leave the Degenerator back door open, so farming Elnoyle in Esthar won't be overly time-consuming. What I would really like to do is changing enemy status resistance dynamically for the same enemy, mid-battle or depending on battle. It can be done for elemental resistance (see Blobras or Thrustaevises), but in the case of status effects, it looks like a similar enemy AI instruction doesn't exist, unfortunately.

Berserk is indeed quite a cheap way of dealing with certain enemies, as they don't even get the increased Strength when berserked, and just use their regular physical attack unbuffed in almost all cases. It's possible to control which attack enemies use when under Berserk though, and I already managed to make Iguions actually inflict more damage when under Berserk, but a lot more enemies should get that treatment, so using Berserk always comes with a risk, especially if enemies are not blinded at the same time. It will take a little time, but more changes to enemy Berserk behavior will follow soon.

That would be interesting indeed, in fact this could open some option for making Berserk a key factor in some battle (something I wanted to do in some boss battle when I was trying to mod FFIX (I should really come back to it by the way ^^) cause in FFIX to you can set which attack the berserked ennemy will use which I think could make some fight interesting if use properly).

Yes, especially the last point you made is actually very important in tougher battles, as no time needs to be spend on selecting Commands or targets, so the enemy won't be able to interrupt your actions as often. So I think Angel Wing is currently in a reasonable spot overall. I'll probably remove Demi from the table though, to make it slightly more useful. I can imagine it's quite frustrating if Rinoa uses it against bosses.

Yeah Angel Wing is in a good spot.
By the way speaking of Rinoa's Limit Break I did some testing with her Angelo Limit Break, I didn't use it like at all cause I was focusing on a Magic use for Rinoa but since I tried pretty much anything else I thought why not trying just to see what it can do and My God I think underestimate this Limit Break really bad it's actually a very good one :

-Angelo Canon and Angelo Strike are VERY strong geez, with 244 Str Angelo Canon is actually stronger than Zell's My Final Heaven with 255 Str on Iron Giant My Final Heaven does around 4500-5000 Angelo Canon does around 5200-5500 (double with Crit) this might be the best Physical AoE in the game actually cause since it's a Crisis Level 1 it's the most likely attack to get off and require no skill unlike My Final Heaven and is more likely to get than Squall's Finisher, and Angelo Strike is even stronger around 7900-8500 on Iron Giant with 244 Str (double with Crit of course) I actually reach 45k on a Behemoth with Vit 0 with this attack criting so this is a very strong single target attack.

-Awakening Moon is a free heal but it's honnestly an inconvenience more than anything else and I think this is the least usefull of Angelo's Limit Break, cause the problem is you cannot predict it and so if you plan using Rinoa as a damage dealer with her Limit Break this full heal will prevent you from using Limit Break and you will have to set up again and even if you want to actually heal why would you risk using something random like this when you can use Quistis's White Wind or simply a Triple Curaga ? You definitly want to nerf Invincible Moon but this new move is honnestly an annoyance more than anything else in a Limit Break Random as this one. So as of now I just didn't learn it so that at least I can be sure that Rinoa will do damage which the main goal of using her Limit.

-Wishing Star : Now that is the one that worries me the most it scale with Rinoa's magic which is good, and I think it's definitly the most powerfull Magic Attack in the game, with 255 Mgi Wishing Star deal around 72000 damage to an Iron Giant (which has 0 Spr apparently cause after setting Vit 0 on a Behemoth I was reaching the same damage output), that is quite a lot, on a Behemoth which apparently has a good Spr it does 30-32k that's quite a lot to put in perspective it's around the 2 time the damage of a Triple Ultima, and this is even stronger than Quistis's Shockwave Pulsar (who at best deal 65k to Iron Giant down to 45k depending of the Crisis Level with 255 Mgi and I didn't even exceed 17k on Behemoth) and this isn't mentionning this is an AoE. Tough the fact it require highest Crisis Level to pull off, make this move unlikely to being pulled off unless you really do your best at increasing Rinoa's Crisis Level (by reducing her HP a lot and put several Statut Effect on her).

As for the new sidequest in Esthar, you have everything you need to find the Adamantoises inside Tomb of the Unknown King (the Goddess Bell is rather just a variable than a real item; too bad there's no inventory for key items in this game). Have you already looked at the middle tower from all possible angles?

Manage to found them in the end, so the fight against them was pretty fun, having to keep an eye on what Ward they use, so immunity to Silence and Petrify is welcome, junction 100 Thundaga to Element Attak on Irvine and Squall, Rinoa as my magic damage dealer with Triple Thundaga, you can actually put Vit 0 on them quite easily and as such they over 30k from Triple Thundaga, and you can Blind them to make their physical attack and Sand Storm (cause it's physical for some reasons), overall most dangerous thing is the last one will use Ultima instead of Quake.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-23 13:41:41
OK So did the CC Club sidequest and finish disc 3, I don't like being negative in general but I guess it is better to be honnest, this is honnestly the most lacking part of the Mod up to now End of Disc 3 and early Disc 4 is quite a disappointment regarding the boss fight :

-Fujin and Raijin : there is some good idea, I like the fact that Fujin act as more of a support here, but she is just to focus on support and outside of it don't do much she only did 1 Zan, 1 fix Meteor and 1 Bio, Raijin is more focusing on damage, except the issue here is they are severely lacking in damage even Raijin's Special didn't do more than 2000 with Protect, Fujin's support can simply be dispel and completly neutralize (really playing this I now understand why Mexico did something similar to FFVII and creat a spell that only dispel Protect, Shell and Reflect and is available for most of the game, and left the spell that dispel all buff for late game only, cause dispel just make any sort of ennemies using buff irrelevant unless it's a special buff like what you did with the Rare adamantoise and their wards or Defend), so basically I just Mugged them and kill them with Triple Bio, Squall using Darkside and Irvine regular attack (both with Bio on Element Attack).

-Mobile Type 8 : Well to put it simply if it wasn't for trying to mug all 3 of them I could end this fight before they even start to separate, Mugging took me a LOT of time don't know why but the right pod just didn't want me to mug him, I no joke must have try over 20 times before I succeed, at least Str Ups are a good thing, my main offensive was Irvine using is Limit Break (Pulse Ammo or Demolition Ammos), Squall using Darkside with 100 Thundaga to Elemental Attack and Selphie with Triple Thundaga, if he ever got the time when he separates he put himself in defense becoming immune to physical and halving magic at that point Squall just stay on support while Selphie rain down the thundaga. So the only thing to watch for is his Homing Laser Counter and the fact it inflict Sleep so immunity to sleep is good to have and be ready to revive Irvine.

-Seifer 3 : The lamest fight of the entire mod, what happen here ? He did nothing but regular attack, his regular attack doesn't do more than 1700 with Protect and don't even do Statut Effect and I don't know if I got lucky or what but he really did nothing else, no Bloodfest, no magic, nothing this one need a serious overhaul in his AI and his abilities and furthermore his HP seems pathetically low it didn't even last 2 minutes. Honnestly it's the final fight with Seifer he should pull off a big fight for the occasion, you already take away Gilgamesh auto killing him after some time.

-Adel + Linoa : The only good fight of this entire part, than one was good, Ray Bomb is a good idea as setting Vit 0 dramatically increase the damage we take, the damage Adel deals to Linoa is very high (1500 with Shell), I somehow manage to keep her alive but I kinda luck out here, the spell that inflict Doom on all the party is a good idea to, due to the nature of this fight we have to deal with Vit 0 and Doom, while keeping Rinoa alive and damaging Adel, Irvine was my main damage dealer here  with Pulse and Demolition Ammos, combine with Squall's Darkside with Tornado on Elemental Attack and Selphie using Triple Flare when she got the occasion, as for Renew casting Renew on her and healing her from time to time, this is complete by the fact Adel has quite a lot of HP and so she doesn't go down easily. So not hard but it's a fun fight.

-Sorceress's gauntlet : Well as I said Adel was the only good fight of this part of the game, I can understand the first and second type of Sorceress being weak HP Wise to not drag this fight, however I think you should make it so they act at least 1 time as soon as they appear that would keep thing interesting at least as they go down really fast also remove the physical attack for the first type really a useless move, Squall one shot the first type with Darkside and when they are 2 of them Irvine can kill both with Fire Ammos. The last Sorceress like Seifer is lacking she did nothing but Gravija and Normal attacks, Gravija can't kill me and her normal attack does like 1500 damage with Protect, and she has low HP for that point of the game so again Irvine's Pulse Ammo and Squall's Darkside take care of this, think that one need a buff not necessarily to make it hard but more to make it fun at least.

So I think what happen here is you probably wanted to make this bosses to be beatable without doing the sidequests at Disc 3, as I guess if I didn't did all of them I would have been at a way lower LV with less good magic to junction which would have make these fight harder, however considering this is a mod that add quite a lot of sidequest and, in FFVIII unlike FFVII or FFIX finishing Disc 3 is really a point of no return locking up the player preventing his to get back, as such I think most players will do all the sidequests (at least as much as they can) before going to Lunatic Pandora, so you should take account how strong the player can be at this point, cause clearly I think these fight weren't design to a strong team, of course I'm not asking for each of this fight to be as challenging as Ultima Weapon, but really Jumbo Cactuar, Bahamut, that Special Red Dragon you add and even the Special Adamantoises were more interesting and/or challenging than these fight (save for Adel again she was a good fight overall).

Anyway so here I am to Ultimecia's castle now I'm gonna get the Ragnarok back.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-24 02:26:55
The problem with Seifer probably was that his AI script still consists of weighted random checks for the most part, without any pattern in regards to the attacks he chooses. I thought reducing the probability of his regular physical attack being used to about 40% would suffice, but it apparently wasn't enough to prevent him from spamming it, as it happened in your case.

So reworked Seifers script to something more structured with way fewer randomization in it, to make sure all his moves will be seen. The other bosses you mentioned (except Adel) have been buffed as well, but not all that much for reasons you already mentioned (I also don't want to make casting Protect and Shell mandatory for every single boss battle). You can check out a preview here (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ZIGNN_BKe_GLpBI_QUko_fZTJWSXdOUN) if you like (replace main and battle files in lang-en folder). Any further opinions would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-24 05:44:09
OK I will try them again with the update in any case I beat everything in Ultimecia's castle only Ultimecia herself is left so I'm gonna go in the order I did them :

-Sphinxaur : Well since we only have Normal Attacks this as a result is a very straight forward boss, I took all 3 boys junction Holy to their attack and I just keep attacking, he doesn't do that much damage, just have to be carefull hitting him and not the jelleye he summons in the second phase, I recover Magic and the 2 next bosses will be girls time.

-Tri Point : So the gimmick of this one is to alternate between Fire and Ice magic, so I use Triple on all 3 girls and Rinoa and Quistis use Triple Firaga and Triple Blizzaga respectivly while Selphie buff and heal. I recover the Limit Break option.

-Krysta : Still girl team, this time however I wasn't expecting his regular attack to do Stop so as a result only Selphie was immune via Auto-Haste, so she was the main Damage dealer with Triple Flare while Rinoa and Quistis were healing and buffing preparing for his Ultima. I recover the resurection option.

-Trauma : Took Squall, Irvine and Selphie. An interesting one, so apparently as long as even 1 Droma is here he gain a sort of auto-heal for almost 9000HP, the Dromas themselves aren't to threatning and go down easily with Squall and Irvine's physical attacks (with Tornado to Elemental Attack) and Selphie using Triple Tornado, Trauma's most dangerous attack is definitly Mega Pulse canon who does around 7000 damage and ignore Shell but this move is also a great occasion to use Limit Breaks to damage him. I recover saving ability.

-Red Giant : An easy one for once a mod doesn't remove his gimmick of being weak to Gravity XD. So just beefed up everyone Vitality, set protect cast Triple Demi 2 or 3 times and finish him off with Irvine's AP Shot. I recover the Command ability.

-Gargantua : Using Zell, Quistis and Rinoa first off we have to take off Lefty, Righty and Vysage no big deal a Triple Ultima will do the trick, Gargantua himself might be the second toughest of the 8 Guardian, mainly cause he can set Vit 0 on us, has Berserk and can use Vengeance yep this move again and his physical attacks are quite damaging, so just like Ultima weapon I putted Rinoa on Angel Wing as soon as I get the chance, so that he can't interrupt my offense while buffing/healing with Zell and Quistis.

-Tiamat : Using Zell, Quistis and Rinoa again, toughest of the 8 gardian but that's my fault I was focusing on Limit Break didn't know he could counter them with Ultima I realise that to late, so I switch strat mid battle using only Zell's Limit Break, outside of Ultima counter the most dangerous thing is he can now use Dark Flare whenever he wants and it's a 8000 damage in the face without Shell so yeah quite a damaging move.

-Catoblepas : Using Squall, Selphie and Irvine, well this guy only dangerous move his Heaven's Wrath just like Odin so my main Damage dealer was Irvine with Pulse Ammo and Squall using Darkside since he has low physical defense, Heaven's Wrath give a nice opportunity for using Limit Break due to the damage it does just have to be carefull in case it set Stop.

And so now for the big boy himself Omega Weapon, with he is definitly the toughest boss of the mod took me 4-5 tries to found a somewhat consistent strat against him and well show don't tell as they say so I record a fight :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSm1Ifm2yjE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSm1Ifm2yjE&feature=youtu.be)

So basically he has all kind of nasty moves including Megido Flame, Light Pillar, Vengeance and Terra Break, Megido Flame doesn't deal 9998 damage thank god, seems to deal damage depending of characters max HP, Terra Break is the big one without Defend this move alone make the fight luck base, for Light Pillar Squall can actually survive it without Defend (with 232 Vit and Protect Squall take 8000 from Light Pillar) so basically :

-Squall here is my tank set Renew, Haste and Triple then putting him in Defend and he stays in Defend in case Terra Break, at least Omega can't use Megido Flame and/or Terra Break back to back (however he can use Vengeance follow by Terra Break it's rare but this is definitly the most dangerous thing that can happen in this fight) so Squall is safe to be on support when either of them is used, is role is to tank and resurrect the other after Terra Break.

-Quistis is the support, use Ray Bomb to inflict Vit 0 then assist Squall on support, using Renew on her and resurrecting Irvine when he die, also throw Aura Stone at Irvine (first time I use them cause yeah this is the strongest boss in the game normally so no holding back on that bastard XD).

-Irvine is the main damage dealer with Pulse Ammos, Pulse Ammos might be a little to strong with Vit 0, despite our dear XenoKyros labelling Irvine as garbage he can pull off ridiculous damage here Pulse Ammo deal 11000-12000 damage and up to around 24000 per Shots, I even got an extremely lucky turn where I pulled off 6 Shots and all them Crit that's over 130k here so much for Irvine being a garbage XD.

Got to admit I got lucky on certain part especially on the first Terra Break not Killing Quistis, this is honnestly the first time it ever happen usually she died (I did 5 tries and also did this fight using Zell instead of Irvine and on all of them this is really the only time I saw Quistis surviving Terra Break), and after the Ultima Omega Weapon didn't use anything that could have killed Irvine leaving Irvine a lot of turns to damage him. Showing my junction after the fight if anyone is interested.
Also you might want to nerf the Pulse Ammos a little for that fight tough XD.

Also I think Light Pillar as some damage overflow thing notice how at 3:40 on the video Irvine has 8000HP game tell you that Light Pillar has 3754 yet this killed Irvine regardless XD

EDIT : Well Ultimecia defeated decide to leave Irvine and Zell out for once so I took Squall, Quistis and Rinoa, Squall as a physical fighter with 100 Water to Elemental Attack, Quistis and Rinoa as mage, just make sure to have a Holy and Thundaga spells :

-Ultimecia : Basically just a warming I just try to survive waiting for my team to come up, once I got my team I set up them with Triple, Renew and Haste, then since she has a good Magic Defense and no good weakness to exploit I just use Squall's Darkside and some triple Meteor.

-Griever : Poor dude only did 3 actions (including the fix Schockwave Pulsar) before dying he is very weak to Holy so with Triple Holy Rinoa does over 40k and Quistis (who has less magic around 32k so over 70k per turn Squall just healing if needed, so yeah around 3 or 4 round of Quistis and Rinoa using Triple Holy and he is done, his Schockwave Pulsar does around 3000 with Shell.

-Ultimecia + Griever : Now Squall can get some good damage as she take a lot damage from Water element Squall can hit for 28-29k with Darkside, Rinoa around 27k with Triple Thundaga and Quistis 24k with Triple Thundaga so yeah almost 80k per round since I have by far the advantage in speed I manage to cut her tail before she even get the time to summon one of her little thing. Once her tail is off she acts a lot faster but she doesn't do anything dangerous except maybe Demi Schock but hey my Elixir are here for that.

-Final Ultimecia : Alright this one is a lot longer to kill than the 2 previous one, since she has no weakness to exploit I decided to just put Rinoa into Angel Wing and let her do damage (PS : I actually got an Apocalypse here who did 47k so that was nice XD), Squall can do damage with Darkside hitting for 14k and his Limit Break if he got the chance, Quistis is on support. She actually has her own version on Vengeance except it also dispel Angel Wing, but she only used it once in the entire fight so I just had to rebuff. She can still remove are spells, and something weird happened by the way at one point the game told me that she removed Quistis's Ultima, but it was Squall's Ultima that were remove, so that was weird and because Squall has become useless for dealing damage but that wasn't an issue cause this happen once the inferior part appear, at that point I just draw 31 Apocalypse with Quistis and was using her for dealing damage with Triple Apocalypse (1 Apocalypse hit for 10k with 207 Magic stat), while Rinoa was continuing her job, Ultimecia didn't get the time to use Apocalypse in fact after Drawing she losed time casting Flare.
Once the inferior part is gone at this point she is nearly done, she does however recover more than 20k between each of her monolog lines, but she also seem to become more trigger happy with Hell's Judgement so I use that as an opportunity to use Schockwave Pulsar who can deal at best around 45k on her

So yeah that was the Final Boss, so Griever and Ultimecia + Griever needs some more HP I think to accomodate for the fact they do have weaknesses, especially Griever Holy being one of the strongest spell in the game he suffers a lot from it, cause as of now they barely get the time to act. As for Final Ultimecia my only complains would be that she uses Flare a lot to much compare to her other spells (or maybe that was just luck in that case nevermind) and she should cast her Apocalypse right away instead of wasting time casting something else, otherwise Final Ultimecia is good she is a fun fight, she has enough HP to take a lot of punishment without making it to tedious which is what you would expect from a final boss and she does has some trick to spice the fight a little.

So I'm gonna retry the End of Disc 3/Beginning of Disc 4 bosses and then I think I will be done and will sum up my conclusions.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Callisto on 2019-10-27 18:27:35
-Red Giant: Well yes, it's a little cheap that Gravity attacks still work on him, but being able to draw Demi from directly or simply destroy his defense using Vit 0 was even cheaper. Also, he is the only boss after Cerberus that is vulnerable to Gravity attacks, so I thought why not leaving the vulnerability in for a change. He also has as massive amount of HP, so he should always get at least a couple of turns, and damage is quite high if Vitality stats are below ~150, so I think Red Giant is fine overall. Could perhaps increase the hit rate of his single-hit sword attacks though, as they are quite easy to dodge even with only mediocre Evade stats.

-Omega Weapon: Damage overflow shouldn't have happened, as damage is always capped at 60,000 HP in this mod. Do you have any other hext files under RaW/Global/Hext that mess with damage limit? That could explain it.

Otherwise, very well done fight. I don't mind that Pulse Ammo is superior to anything else in this battle (after setting Vit 0), as Omega Weapon is one of the few end-game enemies that are actualy vulnerable to Vit 0, and I think there should be a way to inflict massive amounts of damage on an enemy that enforces defensive play so much that it can be difficult find the right time to attack at all, as you noticed yourself. If anything, I would rather change the resources for getting Pulse Ammo instead of further reducing its base power. If you do the fixed Elnoyle encounter in Esthar repeatedly, it's actually quite easy to get a full stock in no time. As for the overall usefulness of Irvine's Limit Break, yes, Xerokynos' conclusion was a bit hasty (if I remember right, he tried AP Shot when Irvine had a Strength stat of only 32, then dismissed it for the rest of the playthrough) - if Irvine's Strength is high enough, then it's still very good.

I would be interested in seeing the stats by the way, especially Irvine's Luck. Maybe some spell junction effects are still too generous on it.

-Griever: It's honestly quite disappointing that he only got 3 attacks in your case, so I looked at his AI script again and found another, less obvious turn skip, which slows him down considerably. So removed this skip, and now he acts noticably faster. The third form has a similar turn skip as well, but it's difficult to remove without Ifrit enemy editor (the tool doesn't work very well with this enemy in general). I'll give it a try with manual hex editing though.

-Final Ultimecia: The time lapse between "Draw Apocalypse" and actually casting Apocalypse isn't any longer than in the base game. It's just that in this mod, Ultimecia acts at times she normally wouldn't, so she now uses another move between these two actions, when she would normally just skip a turn. Making it so that she casts Apocalpyse immediately after drawing it from her lower half would be quite difficult to achieve due to the complexity of her AI script, and similar to the previous enemy, the Ifrit tool doesn't "like" her file very much, so a lot of manual editing would be necessary, at least if you want to keep her Ability that destroys GF. I'll try to make her use Vaporize a little more often, and Hell's Judgement less frequently when near death. Thanks.
Title: Re: [FF8PC-Steam] Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod (v1.1.5)
Post by: Nesouk on 2019-10-28 06:29:17
-Red Giant: Well yes, it's a little cheap that Gravity attacks still work on him, but being able to draw Demi from directly or simply destroy his defense using Vit 0 was even cheaper. Also, he is the only boss after Cerberus that is vulnerable to Gravity attacks, so I thought why not leaving the vulnerability in for a change. He also has as massive amount of HP, so he should always get at least a couple of turns, and damage is quite high if Vitality stats are below ~150, so I think Red Giant is fine overall. Could perhaps increase the hit rate of his single-hit sword attacks though, as they are quite easy to dodge even with only mediocre Evade stats.

Well I wasn't complaining ^^ for once Gravity attacks are usefull on a boss and kinda mandatory (as killing him with AP Shot would just take to long otherwise).

-Omega Weapon: Damage overflow shouldn't have happened, as damage is always capped at 60,000 HP in this mod. Do you have any other hext files under RaW/Global/Hext that mess with damage limit? That could explain it.

I check but I have nothing else in the Hext folder than your mod, back when I fight Ultima Weapon I effectivly saw 60000, however remember when I also said on Ultima Weapon that at one point Light Pillar was dealing more damage on Squall than Quistis/Rinoa despite Squall having highest Vit (Squall was 50k at the time while Quistis just 11k), so far Light Pillar is the only attack I saw an overflow.
However I got over 60k with Quistis's Schockwave Pulsar (did go up to 65k with Vit 0) but Demi didn't do more than 60k, unless this is intentionnal for Schockwave Pulsar it seems certain attacks break the 60k damage limit.

Otherwise, very well done fight. I don't mind that Pulse Ammo is superior to anything else in this battle (after setting Vit 0), as Omega Weapon is one of the few end-game enemies that are actualy vulnerable to Vit 0, and I think there should be a way to inflict massive amounts of damage on an enemy that enforces defensive play so much that it can be difficult find the right time to attack at all, as you noticed yourself. If anything, I would rather change the resources for getting Pulse Ammo instead of further reducing its base power. If you do the fixed Elnoyle encounter in Esthar repeatedly, it's actually quite easy to get a full stock in no time. As for the overall usefulness of Irvine's Limit Break, yes, Xerokynos' conclusion was a bit hasty (if I remember right, he tried AP Shot when Irvine had a Strength stat of only 32, then dismissed it for the rest of the playthrough) - if Irvine's Strength is high enough, then it's still very good.

I would be interested in seeing the stats by the way, especially Irvine's Luck. Maybe some spell junction effects are still too generous on it.

Yeah and Irvine happen to be the best way to get somewhat consistant high damage here, Zell is a good alternative and I suppose if you got lucky with Lion Heart proc Squall can be great to but I think Irvine's Pulse Ammo is the fastest way, I actually show my Stats and Junction at the end of the video but I'm gonna put the screenshot :

Squall :
(https://zupimages.net/up/19/44/h6dn.jpg)
(https://zupimages.net/up/19/44/0zyh.jpg)

Irvine :
(https://zupimages.net/up/19/44/y108.jpg)
(https://zupimages.net/up/19/44/zd2z.jpg)

Quistis :
(https://zupimages.net/up/19/44/3d8e.jpg)
(https://zupimages.net/up/19/44/xpvm.jpg)

-Griever: It's honestly quite disappointing that he only got 3 attacks in your case, so I looked at his AI script again and found another, less obvious turn skip, which slows him down considerably. So removed this skip, and now he acts noticably faster. The third form has a similar turn skip as well, but it's difficult to remove without Ifrit enemy editor (the tool doesn't work very well with this enemy in general). I'll give it a try with manual hex editing though.

So some skipping turn again, figure I wonder why they did that when they developped the game, kinda curious, well if you can remove it that should be better effectivly.

-Final Ultimecia: The time lapse between "Draw Apocalypse" and actually casting Apocalypse isn't any longer than in the base game. It's just that in this mod, Ultimecia acts at times she normally wouldn't, so she now uses another move between these two actions, when she would normally just skip a turn. Making it so that she casts Apocalpyse immediately after drawing it from her lower half would be quite difficult to achieve due to the complexity of her AI script, and similar to the previous enemy, the Ifrit tool doesn't "like" her file very much, so a lot of manual editing would be necessary, at least if you want to keep her Ability that destroys GF. I'll try to make her use Vaporize a little more often, and Hell's Judgement less frequently when near death. Thanks.

I'm wondering actually I'm not that much of a GF user myself but considering you tried to make them more usefull end game, is it worth to keep the Final Boss just basically pulling a "Screw you" move for people who use GF ?
Otherwise Final Ultimecia is pretty good fight already, the few tweak you mention should put her in a good spot I think