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Miscellaneous Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-10 04:48:57

Title: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-10 04:48:57
From E3 2019: Official release date, new trailer and game contents of Final Fantasy VII Remake was revealed.
[ First released on PS4 on April 2020; Dub: Japanese, English, French, German. Sub: English, French, German, Italian, LatAm Spanish, Brazilian Portuguese, Spanish options ]

Trailers

Gameplay

Other


Renders and Artworks

Voice Actor:

Pre-order editions (https://store.na.square-enix-games.com/en_US/product/562671/final-fantasy-vii-remake-1st-class-edition-ps4):

Release date: 10.04.2020

[ Official Twitter (https://twitter.com/finalfantasyvii/status/1137921069631676418) {Japanese Ver. (https://twitter.com/ffviir_cloud)} - Official Website (https://ffvii-remake.square-enix-games.com/en-us)  {Japanese Ver. (https://www.jp.square-enix.com/ffvii_remake/)} ]
Title: Re: [FFVII-R]Release March 2020, New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-06-10 06:26:41
I'm not saying it's bad. It looks like the main story line will stay intact but re-imagined, so I'm on board for that. But the combat...:|. Since FF12, combat has seen unrealistically flashy movements and numbers flying all over the screen. I've never been able to get into it for the same reasons I've never picked up a God of War/Devil May Cry/Bayonetta style action game.

I'll give this one a shot if it's on PC, otherwise I'll probably end up just watching the movie edited version on YouTube.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R]Release March 2020, New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-10 07:02:40
Im gonna go ahead and add my hot take to this; I think this looks fantastic and already way better than the orignal FF7 ever was including combat. While I agree that regarding more action orientented combat, ffXVs was particularily dumbed down/ simplistic and I hope that thisone (which it looks like to be) has a bit more depth to it than 3 skills per character and useless magic, i think its absurd to call FF7s combat anything remotely close to deep or complex which is often used as an argument opposing the transition to a faster direct input paced system.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-10 13:12:03
Wow. It's actually not coming in 2030. Impressive lol.

Trailer looks fun. Definitely gonna be buying day 1. Now let's see if the leaks about a remastered  FF8 are true.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-10 14:55:25
Wild over the top numbers flashing all over don't lead to any brain cells being used.  And the story will also be hollywoodized nonsense. The voice parts I've heard so far and the scenes I've seen all point to it. But I've never had any hope for this tosh.

I also don't think it looks fantastic. I base my love of a game on intellect, story, and qualities that are more than just flashy visuals.  In that, I'm with EQ2Alyza.  To be blunt, I think it's shite. Shockingly shite.

Apart from the seeming obsession with flashy numbers i nowhere mentioned and the fact that ff7 combat requires equally 0 braincells (if you think about the materia system here its requirement of "braincells" for "tactical" use doesnt hinge on the combat system itself and can easily be implemented to same if not more tactical effect im an action based system, not that im necessarily saying that it will but from the trailers there is technically no way to tell that it wont which makes the point obsolete for now) if not looked at through fanboy eyes, this is too ::) of a statement to really warrant engaging in a debate about this due to clearly too much emotional involvement on your end.

I can agree that the story presentation seems to be dumbed down but since i fortunately know the story already this part is luckily irrelevant to me (not that the original ff7 story is that unique or deep in the first place once you look at the core of it....)


I like the original ff7 alot but i also certainly look forward to this remake.
We simply disagree then ^^
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-10 16:24:16
(if you think about the materia system here its requirement of "braincells" for "tactical" use

Eh it really doesn't. You can beat the whole game by spamming attack/limits/cure. Never understood the way that FF7's battles were idolized... It's one of the easiest games in the franchise.

I can agree that the story presentation seems to be dumbed down but since i fortunately know the story already this part is luckily irrelevant to me (not that the original ff7 story is that unique or deep in the first place once you look at the core of it....)

Well that's still to be determined. There is one substancial change in the new trailer but it's not that big a deal. We'll have to see what else was added/removed/changed.

I like the original ff7 alot but i also certainly look forward to this remake.
We simply disagree then ^^

Correct. The original is not only available but it's available on pretty much everything but a toaster. Android, iOS, Playstation, Playstation 3, Playstation 4, Xbox One, PC, Mac and Nintendo Switch. It's not like whoever doesn't like the remake won't have options lol.


NOW GIVE ME THAT FF8 REMASTER!
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2019-06-10 16:37:21
It wouldn't hurt if the devs would have looked at the core of the story of FF7. You literally playing the Ragnarok epos and the chase around the after Sephiroth is a symbol for it (Fenrir chasing the moon). As it looks now you will stay in Midgar the whole first episode. And if you think about it, it's the easiest way to separate the game into episodes. I also dislike the new design of Sephiroth where his front hair doesn't look like the fang of a snake anymore. The gameplay will be fantastic as long as I don't hear 'Activate Combat Mode'  when a fight starts. The presentation will also be amazing. But I doubt that they will keep the intelligence of the story, which the original game has. From all the recent SE games I played I expect a silly black and white story where Sephiroth is just evil with no hints that he is the poor product of a science which has no ethic responsibility. Reflecting the political perversion through the big companies in our world or what we are doing to our world will also not be important anymore, because the emotions of the actors and how to set them into the scene are way more important.

Get me right, my fear is that they serve to us the same boring story telling quality which all the recent FF games do have.

Barret with sunglasses in a mostly dark city. ::)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-10 16:46:57
As it looks now you will stay in Midgar the whole first episode.

I believe it was mentioned in some interview that the first episode would go up to Aeris/Aerith's death.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2019-06-10 17:22:44
Which still can be rewritten to be taking place in Midgar. It's also possible that they use a similar system like in CC where you can go to other places by selecting the location you want to travel. There are rumours about something like a wm but the only trustable information we have is that the wm is more like zones (which also could mean Sectors) you can travel through. ATM we only have footage about Midgar and that each episode will tell its own story.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-10 17:39:57
Which still can be rewritten to be taking place in Midgar.

Well that's just too far-fetched to be honest.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-11 01:35:17
They gave Tifa ugly pants.. She looked great otherwise.. But fuck those pants.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-11 03:00:15
So yea: Extended Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCJZg7pVtiI). Tifa revealed.

Also:

Cloud: Cody Christian (All American, Teen Wolf)
Barret: John Eric Bentley (Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, Independence Day: Resurgence)
Aerith: Briana White (Criminal Minds: Beyond Borders, Occupants)
Tifa: Britt Baron (GLOW)
Jessie: Erica Lindbeck (Spider-Man, Persona 5, ThunderCats Roar)
Biggs: Gideon Emery (Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Teen Wolf)
Wedge: Matt Jones (Breaking Bad)
Sephiroth: Tyler Hoechlin (Teen Wolf)

Pre-order (https://store.na.square-enix-games.com/en_US/product/562671/final-fantasy-vii-remake-1st-class-edition-ps4) editions:

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-11 03:17:35
Looks awesome. The combat system actually looks pretty darn good.

Also... FF8 Remastered!
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-11 03:43:28
If you guys ask me i'd say this is the wrong era/time for FF7 to be remade. They are catering to feminists and destroying the style of beloved characters..

While characters like Cloud and Sephiroth do look better than ever - characters like Tifa and Jessie look worse than ever..

What i am saying is that they could have made Tifa look like this:

(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/010/790/887/large/blair-armitage-turnaround.jpg?1526258709)

But because they are catering to feminists she turned out ugly with leggins, a different skirt, black parts on the white shirt and so on.. Man - if i am going to play this game i will have a torture looking at her and being reminded that she would have been much better looking were it not for the feminists and Square catering to them instead of the fans.

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-11 05:15:06
I fully agree with tifas model being kinda unnecessarily tamed down wtih the long stocking socks; other than that though damn this looks absolutely fantastic im really hyped now combat looks extremely fun and the whole thing is visually absolutely stunning.

Cant wait to get DLPBs explanation on why this combat is all complete crap and am interested in how precisely the original scorpion battle (or rest of combat) is so much more tactical, braincell demanding than this lol (while restressing that the numbers are too flashy) ^^
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: hotdog963al on 2019-06-11 12:18:28
- Way too much happening on the screen at once, it burns my eyes.
- Did they forget the guitar in the boss theme? Is everything going to be orchestral now? ;P
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2019-06-11 12:45:16
Well that's just too far-fetched to be honest.

It's also too far-fetched that Zack meets Aerith in the same way as Cloud did. But it happened that way.

There are many hints that the first CD will be play in Midgar. Nomura said that the story will change and that the compilation of FF7 won't fit anymore (it's silly that he thinks that it fits before), which indicates a massive rewrite of the story. They also said that they want to decide the game into episodes, where each episode will be a full game and has its own game play. This means they have to divide the game into separate pieces and have to find a way to tell each story without direct contact of the other stories.
Then there is a very practical reason. SE has to produce the remake with as low cost as possible, but they also want a breath-taking experience, so they can't come with a lifeless small city as in the original. What's clever to do is to keep the story in Midgar and working only on the huge city rather than working on a whole continent. Maybe that's why they hired Cyberconnect2 for the project in the first place, because they had experience with creating big lively cities. (Keep also in mind that SE struggled with creating FFXV open world.)
The last hint is that we have no footage of outside of Midgar. The iconic moment where Sephiroth goes walking through the burning Nibleheim is something I would expect to see, instead we see Sephiroth confronting Cloud in Midgar. Then there are additional bike scenes, which probably means that there is a lot more to be explored than in the original game.

Though, the only argument why I could be wrong is that we have mainly seen scenes from the very beginning of the game, but... well, call it a feeling that I right about that. If you look on some older threads where we discussed the refusing of SE to make a remake of FF7 I predicted that SE will make a remake of it in the middle or to the end of the PS4 lifetime, because they need this money. And I was right about that.

Get me right I hope I'm wrong and FF7-R will blow our minds away. But my concerns started when I saw, which people are responsible for it. Hideo Kojima would have been a welcome surprise to me and a cooperation with Monolith, even though it means that it would have been designed with the switch in mind. But at last I had a guarantee that they focus on a very good game play and story and not on shiny graphical blending mechanics to hide the next uninspired Final Fantasy meets Kingdom Hearts mix.

I think a good comparison is Lufia II to its DS remake. These are very different from each other, but both are great games. A downside of the remake for me was the very linear story, other than this it was pretty entertaining. But, while it is graphical very impressive for a DS game it still stands in the shadow of the original game.
This is what I expect for the FF7 remake, though this would be a disaster for SE because the remake needs to surpass the original.

Edit
Just found this
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06/11/final-fantasy-vii-remake-expands-on-the-story-of-midgar-e3-2019
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-11 13:22:55
Well we'll find out in a few months. I did really like the battle system that they showed off. They took from FF15 (the action style), from Kingdom Hearts (the shortcut system) and from FF12 (that on-click instant wait mode). The characters looked cool to me. The graphics are obviously stunning and the guard scorpion fight appeared to actually be complex and not be a cakewalk. Now the waiting game continues but at least there's a release date.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-06-11 13:26:42
If you guys ask me i'd say this is the wrong era/time for FF7 to be remade. They are catering to feminists and destroying the style of beloved characters..

While characters like Cloud and Sephiroth do look better than ever - characters like Tifa and Jessie look worse than ever..

What i am saying is that they could have made Tifa look like this:

(https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/010/790/887/large/blair-armitage-turnaround.jpg?1526258709)

But because they are catering to feminists she turned out ugly with leggins, a different skirt, black parts on the white shirt and so on.. Man - if i am going to play this game i will have a torture looking at her and being reminded that she would have been much better looking were it not for the feminists and Square catering to them instead of the fans.

(https://www.gameaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/FinalFantasyVIIRemake-E3-2019-Tifa-Combat.jpg)

I don't agree. It's your opinion to think so, but hear me out on this. Based upon what you're saying, Advent Children would have also catered to feminists, but almost 15 years ago before the identity politics of today's Western society came into fruition?

Square Enix is a Japanese company first and foremost, and Final Fantasy is their Japanese franchise. I've lived in Japan for long enough now to know that society here functions much differently than the Western world. All the identity representation [nonsense] currently thrown into Western media and entertainment...it's not here. Most Japanese people are ignorant to its existence, and those who may get a whiff of it from the internet, don't care enough to ever talk about it. Another fact is that the majority of the player base is male, and the Japanese gaming industry heavily favors male loving aesthetics. They don't tone down characters because feminist activists [whom don't exist in Japan] demanded it do so. Trust me on this one...it's not a feminist thing.

I personally don't mind the new look they've given, but still enjoy the original the best. The changes themselves at least match pretty well. Barret with sunglasses though? That one will take awhile to grow on me.

The explanation is simple...  The combat system was perfect - the implementation of it was not.

This is my take as well. And we know it's a good system seeing how the Hardcore mod and New Threat have shown us what could have been developed instead.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-11 13:42:12
(https://www.gameaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/FinalFantasyVIIRemake-E3-2019-Tifa-Combat.jpg)

I don't agree. It's your opinion to think so, but hear me out on this. Based upon what you're saying, Advent Children would have also catered to feminists, but almost 15 years ago before the identity politics of today's Western society came into fruition?

The whole "feminists ruined Tifa" thing is silly. They've ruined plenty but this isn't one of them.

Has everyone forgotten Final Fantasy 15's Cindy?

And Tifa looks awesome. They don't have to design the character to look like a hooker in order for her to look badass.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-11 14:03:42
The explanation is simple...  The combat system was perfect - the implementation of it was not.

With the remake - the whole thing is rotten.

that "simple explanation" is nothing but a "feels" argument.  Considering how strong and often you posted long rants about this remake here and in the other topic thats surprisingly underwhelming. Also that doesnt really adress the strong opinion you have about how this new system is dumb and low in braincell requirement opposed to the original (especially since you stated that way before any real info about the combat system was available but lets ignore that part lol).

"it was trash the new implementation is amazing.

The original ff7 was rotten."

would you take something like that serious? ^^


As for Tifa I agree that the feminst part is bs, all i think in regards to that is that the original looked better, purely from a personal visual appeal (if anything one could argue that the stockings actually increase the sexual suggestiveness of the orginal that is implied by the feminism ruined it argument).
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-06-11 14:05:08
And Tifa looks awesome. They don't have to design the character to look like a hooker in order for her to look badass.

Tifa looks like a hooker, or a hooker looks like Tifa? Then who looks badass...Tifa or a hooker?  ???
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-06-11 14:26:41
... i think its absurd to call FF7s combat anything remotely close to deep or complex which is often used as an argument opposing the transition to a faster direct input paced system.

Well, calling it absurd to have that view is way too harsh, and doesn't really make sense (bad choice of the word absurd). I agree that FF7's combat falls short on how it was realized in the game. Too easy, too many ways to exploit, too many overkill attacks, <insert more "flaws" here>, etc. The biggest problem is that you don't really need to explore the combat system to beat the game. Upgrade your equipment, heal often and pretty much everyone and their grandparents can beat the game. All of the above may not be bad in itself, but it really undermines everything the combat-system has to offer. Anyone who has worked on tools, mods, or even played mods, know how much more potential there is in the battle system. It just wasn't realized in the game.

Personally, I think the action style combat looks stupid. It's really, really hard to take it seriously considering it's supposed to look realistic. In turn-based, you know that the combat you see on-screen isn't actually what happens. It's an abstraction of what really happens. When it's action based like this, how you should interpret it is vague. Is this how it really happens? Do these character really survive several machinegun shots to their bodies?

The realistic approach could look dumb if it was turn-based too, don't get me wrong, but it would depend on how it was implemented. But we've now seen how they are doing it with the action approach and it looks stupid. Imo they shouldn't have done the realistic style, and they would have avoided this "problem" altogether.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REiyl4haWnY&t=11m

Sorry don't like to hang out specific people, but these comments really make me smh. It would be a waste not to make it action oriented? What about FPS fans? Or puzzle-game fans?

On the feminist Tifa thing... Doesn't she look more like a thing feminists would shriek about in the new desing? A mean, that mini-skirt + socks look like a school-girl fetish thing.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-11 14:41:08
Well, calling it absurd to have that view is way too harsh, and doesn't really make sense (bad choice of the word absurd). I agree that FF7's combat falls short on how it was realized in the game. Too easy, too many ways to exploit, too many overkill attacks, <insert more "flaws" here>, etc. The biggest problem is that you don't really need to explore the combat system to beat the game. Upgrade your equipment, heal often and pretty much everyone and their grandparents can beat the game. All of the above may not be bad in itself, but it really undermines everything the combat-system has to offer. Anyone who has worked on tools, mods, or even played mods, know how much more potential there is in the battle system. It just wasn't realized in the game.

Personally, I think the action style combat looks stupid. It's really, really hard to take it seriously considering it's supposed to look realistic. In turn-based, you know that the combat you see on-screen isn't actually what happens. It's an abstraction of what really happens. When it's action based like this, how you should interpret it is vague. Is this how it really happens? Do these character really survive several machinegun shots to their bodies?

The realistic approach could look dumb if it was turn-based too, don't get me wrong, but it would depend on how it was implemented. But we've now seen how they are doing it with the action approach and it looks stupid. Imo they shouldn't have done the realistic style, and they would have avoided this "problem" altogether.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REiyl4haWnY&t=11m

Sorry don't like to hang out specific people, but these comments really make me smh. It would be a waste not to make it action oriented? What about FPS fans? Or puzzle-game fans?

On the feminist Tifa thing... Doesn't she look more like a thing feminists would shriek about in the new desing? A mean, that mini-skirt + socks look like a school-girl fetish thing.

Thats a fair opinion overall and i can apreciate that some people just dont like it for subjective reasons (I really just have issues with attempts to reason the dislike with appeals to objective complexity being far superior in the original, which is simply not the case) even though I personally disagree, partly for the reasons you mentioned yourself (about the turnbased potentially looking equally silly with such a visual fidelity/artstyle, and that the potential of the system is not what matters but what was effectively realized through balancing and whatnot in regards to me calling it absurd to say it required any intellect. Fair point that absurd might be too strong but you understood what i meant so no worries here).

We fully agree on arguments like the fps part etc that you mentioned (that some people seem to make? havent looked much into opinions except this topic but that FPS part in particular must be a VERY fringe opinion no? :P) being idiotic, and seemingly on the tifa too.

Cheers

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-11 15:16:49
It's also too far-fetched that Zack meets Aerith in the same way as Cloud did. But it happened that way.

There are many hints that the first CD will be play in Midgar. Nomura said that the story will change and that the compilation of FF7 won't fit anymore (it's silly that he thinks that it fits before), which indicates a massive rewrite of the story. They also said that they want to decide the game into episodes, where each episode will be a full game and has its own game play. This means they have to divide the game into separate pieces and have to find a way to tell each story without direct contact of the other stories.
Then there is a very practical reason. SE has to produce the remake with as low cost as possible, but they also want a breath-taking experience, so they can't come with a lifeless small city as in the original. What's clever to do is to keep the story in Midgar and working only on the huge city rather than working on a whole continent. Maybe that's why they hired Cyberconnect2 for the project in the first place, because they had experience with creating big lively cities. (Keep also in mind that SE struggled with creating FFXV open world.)
The last hint is that we have no footage of outside of Midgar. The iconic moment where Sephiroth goes walking through the burning Nibleheim is something I would expect to see, instead we see Sephiroth confronting Cloud in Midgar. Then there are additional bike scenes, which probably means that there is a lot more to be explored than in the original game.

Though, the only argument why I could be wrong is that we have mainly seen scenes from the very beginning of the game, but... well, call it a feeling that I right about that. If you look on some older threads where we discussed the refusing of SE to make a remake of FF7 I predicted that SE will make a remake of it in the middle or to the end of the PS4 lifetime, because they need this money. And I was right about that.

Get me right I hope I'm wrong and FF7-R will blow our minds away. But my concerns started when I saw, which people are responsible for it. Hideo Kojima would have been a welcome surprise to me and a cooperation with Monolith, even though it means that it would have been designed with the switch in mind. But at last I had a guarantee that they focus on a very good game play and story and not on shiny graphical blending mechanics to hide the next uninspired Final Fantasy meets Kingdom Hearts mix.

I think a good comparison is Lufia II to its DS remake. These are very different from each other, but both are great games. A downside of the remake for me was the very linear story, other than this it was pretty entertaining. But, while it is graphical very impressive for a DS game it still stands in the shadow of the original game.
This is what I expect for the FF7 remake, though this would be a disaster for SE because the remake needs to surpass the original.

Edit
Just found this
https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/06/11/final-fantasy-vii-remake-expands-on-the-story-of-midgar-e3-2019

Very well said, i am sad they didn't use the FMV-graphics for the characters like your models.

It can never surpass the original, only if it had stayed true to it in every sense of the word - and only updated graphics.

You see - the original with modern graphics are better than the original with old graphics - but a remake that changes a lot of things will probably fail.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-11 15:41:19
(https://www.gameaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/FinalFantasyVIIRemake-E3-2019-Tifa-Combat.jpg)

I don't agree. It's your opinion to think so, but hear me out on this. Based upon what you're saying, Advent Children would have also catered to feminists, but almost 15 years ago before the identity politics of today's Western society came into fruition?

Square Enix is a Japanese company first and foremost, and Final Fantasy is their Japanese franchise. I've lived in Japan for long enough now to know that society here functions much differently than the Western world. All the identity representation [nonsense] currently thrown into Western media and entertainment...it's not here. Most Japanese people are ignorant to its existence, and those who may get a whiff of it from the internet, don't care enough to ever talk about it. Another fact is that the majority of the player base is male, and the Japanese gaming industry heavily favors male loving aesthetics. They don't tone down characters because feminist activists [whom don't exist in Japan] demanded it do so. Trust me on this one...it's not a feminist thing.

I personally don't mind the new look they've given, but still enjoy the original the best. The changes themselves at least match pretty well. Barret with sunglasses though? That one will take awhile to grow on me.

This is my take as well. And we know it's a good system seeing how the Hardcore mod and New Threat have shown us what could have been developed instead.

Hello, i never liked the Advent Children look of any character. I thought that compared to FF7 1995 they all looked less cool -  or less sexy in Tifa's case. Also, they no longer had anime-aesthetics that i really liked in the original. To me the Kaldarasha models are a superb representation of how they should look - the FMV-videos.

However, i did accept that style because in the case of Advent Children it took place after FF7. As such they might have changed their style over the years. And not only that, but i get it that they'd want a movie to be more real-life like. Not really a fan that they've taken the remake in that route instead of the anime-route - but at least it's understandable to some degree. As an example, i love the new look of Cloud and the fact that he has gotten his cool pants back. I really disliked how they got too slim in all the modern games. To me Cloud has pants that stretch to the side - doesn't look cool otherwise. I still miss the more pointy hair of the original though.

About feminists, i just thought that because of their bad influende on other games, movies and TV-shows that they caused this change as well. But i also do know that Japan is different - so i am not at all certain as to why they gave Tifa stocking socks/leggins when they could just have kept her the way she is in the original. Wanting a remake doesn't mean "we want you to remake everything in the game" - it could just mean "we want modern graphics but the same game otherwise".

If comparing Advent Children to the Remake, the main difference is that the Remake claims to be Final Fantasy VII - but by changing the style of Tifa it's not looking like FF7. It looks like a "new FF7" and i wanted the old with better graphics. Now, i am not against more story, multiplayer or whatever - i like any "expanded content". But changing the looks of characters is so stupid - why change what isn't broken? The old style of Tifa is Tifa since 22 years ago. I don't like changes that change how characters look.

For example, in the 90's you had Vegeta from DBz as 16bit pixels in snes games, and today you have Vegeta in PS4 games with anime-style graphics - the character still looks the same! They didn't change his hairstyle or his clothes - only the graphics. Why couldn't FF7 Remake do the same?

Advent Children is a continuation, Crisis Core is a prologue, Kingdom Hearts is a mix of Disney/FF - but the Remake is Final Fantasy VII and should have re-used all the original designs unchanged.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-11 15:58:32
I fully agree with tifas model being kinda unnecessarily tamed down wtih the long stocking socks; other than that though damn this looks absolutely fantastic im really hyped now combat looks extremely fun and the whole thing is visually absolutely stunning.

Cant wait to get DLPBs explanation on why this combat is all complete crap and am interested in how precisely the original scorpion battle (or rest of combat) is so much more tactical, braincell demanding than this lol (while restressing that the numbers are too flashy) ^^

I did expect the new battle-system to be trash - like in Devil May Cry, a game i hated because of the mechanics.

I have to agree with you that i were pleasantly surprised by it. The only thing the game needs is a "Classic look"-DLC.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-11 16:27:49
One thing even i am genuinely worried about is that any kind of eventual dodging mechanic will be too powerful and/or badly implemented, although from the trailers we´ve seen so far fortunately dont suggest that
(I mean wtf @ ffXV it was not only idiotically implemented (keep button pressed opposed to timing it) but also pretty much an instawin button disregarding undodgable attacks which went the other direction that on some of the harder enemies like naglfar being capable of consistently oneshotting you, forcing you to basically spam revive to win unless you are maxed out)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-11 16:58:18
The whole "feminists ruined Tifa" thing is silly. They've ruined plenty but this isn't one of them.

Has everyone forgotten Final Fantasy 15's Cindy?

And Tifa looks awesome. They don't have to design the character to look like a hooker in order for her to look badass.

I haven't played a FF game since FFXIII and i felt it were underwhelming and i really disliked the linear story. I only really enjoyed 7, 8 and 9 - but 10 is still charming even though i never finished it.

FFXII kept me obsessed the first time i played it for many hours, but after i stoped playing i never got back in. So i thought it were impressive and great but i disliked it's battle-system as i died all the time in a catacomb or whatever. Had to use cheats to get past a part in it. I never had to cheat in the old games. - The problem was that the game had real-time battles. Every enemy could attack and you could never be safe - all your characters got attacked at once.

The new Remake has a pausing-ability and also keeps some of the traditional aspects. That will make it harder for the AI to kill everyone in the party before the player can react.

As for looking like a hooker, i think the Stockings are more  like my picture of one - however, after looking again at Tifa i think she is kind of hot still. Just not in the way i'd expected. But i didn't expect changes to her look, the more i look at her the more used i get to her - it's not bad, just not as good as in the past - i could probably enjoy the game with the new look.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Zen on 2019-06-11 17:09:07
They probably toned down Tifa a bit so people take her more seriously as a character (especially new players). It's got nothing to do with feminism or SJWs, Japan couldn't care less about these things. Expect loads of fanservice elsewhere in the game, if FFXV is any indication.

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-11 20:32:16
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-06-11 21:31:24
Cheers

Nice timing, having a couple of beers right now. Cheers!

To be clear, I have no problem with action RPGs, but I am more passionate about turn-based games, be it Civilization, Heroes, FF, ++. Remaking FF7 into an ARPG is entirely up to SE.

FFXII kept me obsessed the first time i played it for many hours, but after i stoped playing i never got back in. So i thought it were impressive and great but i disliked it's battle-system as i died all the time in a catacomb or whatever. Had to use cheats to get past a part in it. I never had to cheat in the old games. - The problem was that the game had real-time battles. Every enemy could attack and you could never be safe - all your characters got attacked at once.

The new Remake has a pausing-ability and also keeps some of the traditional aspects. That will make it harder for the AI to kill everyone in the party before the player can react.

FFXII had a wait option. If on, you could basically press X (ps2) any time to input commands. Or was it when the atb bar was full? Well, in any case, FF12 was kind of a hybrid.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Zen on 2019-06-11 22:42:50
Seriously as a character?  We have a guy with a crazy hairdo holding an impossibly big sword and a dude who goes around with a gun arm. The new dialogue I've heard so far has also been ridiculous.  I can assure you that seriousness is not the reason she isn't showing any panties.

Let's do an experiment. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you think of Aerith? Now, what's the first thing that comes to mind when you think of Tifa?

See the problem there? That's what they're trying to avoid this time.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Izban on 2019-06-12 10:23:52
I'm actually excited for it the remake, the battle system looks engaging with a great deal of care taken to appease the purists, it seems fairly balanced apart from the mental hp maxes, I hope materia is implemented in a meaningful way where you can sort of customise characters with it.

Art wise I think the characters look closer to the original art then alot of people are giving it credit for, considering the chibi-style characters were only done due to limitations on the original PlayStation, as for stockinggate if that's all people are whining about it's a good day for tifa fan boys.

Overall the game looks beautiful, I have some concerns but they arent major and I have quite a few less after the presser
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-12 17:01:20

Jason Schreier (https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1138559885258383360): "Just asked Yoshinori Kitase how many games are going to be in the Final Fantasy VII remake - he said he can't say yet "because we don't know ourselves."

Square Enix PR reply to journalists on the matter (https://www.gameinformer.com/e3-2019/2019/06/11/development-of-further-final-fantasy-vii-games-wont-be-much-faster): "While the development team finishes the first game of the project, they are also planning the volume of content for the second. Due to the work already done on the first game, we anticipate that the development of the second game will be more efficient. However, for now we would like to focus on the development of the first game."
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: KaidenJames on 2019-06-12 21:12:37
Those 4K renders looks great. Barret without the glasses looks fantastic. I don't mind the glasses, but he looks better without them. SE not knowing how many games they're making was my biggest concern outside of combat. Combat looks great (to me, my opinion) but it would be nice to know how many games we're actually getting. We'll probably know more closer to March.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-12 22:26:30
::)

Those renders are pretty crisp though, but for some reason i think aeriths face looks a bit weird/off.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ on 2019-06-13 15:13:18
I didn't buy she was the type to walk around wearing those clothes everywhere.  But then this was originally an anime style game - where it could work.

You hit the nail on the head. I think her clothes now better match her personality
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-13 16:54:43
Question:

Do you think possible to "load" settings (level of character, equipment, items, etc) of the 1st game to the next game?

Or it will be a new start from lvl0?  ???
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: strife98 on 2019-06-13 20:18:30
It'll probably load data from the previous games. I know a few games could do that in the PS2 like the .Hack games.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-13 20:29:35
While i agree with the load data, what im wondering regarding that though is how they will handle max level if you load you previous data;
It would be highly unsatisfying if the max level in the whole first episode which supposedly is around 50-60 hours long would be lvl 20-30 and if you can get to lvl 99 then will max level after episode 2 be 200? (and it would be equally unsatisfying and lot more immersion breaking (and sadly likely) if the "load data" only loads ruddimentary strawberries like quests completed and choices made and everthing else gets reset. (i find those kind of load data scenarios almost pointless) like in mass effect where it was basically an almost useless feature but it worked there because the games narrative was handled differently and wasnt a previous story with set progression split up) badly worded but you catch my drift hopefully.

Also curious how they will handle stuff like normal gear/weapons in the same veign; like will the best sword in the whole first episode be the 3rd buster sword (you can see at least 2 in the trailers eleased so far) or will you get to high tier weapons. I dont want to have a proper endgame only in the last episode, endgame and leveling for superbosses is one of my favorite parts of rpgs. All of that and much more is one of the major issues (whole progression in all aspects) i see with the episodic format.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-06-13 23:25:36
It seems too far from the original to load data correctly.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Izban on 2019-06-14 02:01:18
Subsequent viewings of the new content, detailed breakdowns from the lucky few who got to play at E3, have left me quite satisfied with the combat sections of the remake.

All account point to specific actions in combat making a noticeable difference, so tactics become important, ATB charges matter a great deal, without them no magic, no items and no heavy attacks/skills.

It appears status effects are present, tifa having sadness in one of the trailers, which I'm curious as to how that's going to effect combat, is it going to just slow limit build-up or is it going to have a more noticeable effect, are they going to have all status ailments or are they only gonna stick to ones that are easily relevant.

Pacing is a concern I have, 40-60hrs of Midgar is all well and good if the story is stretched correctly, depending on how they fill the story out it could be spectacular or terrible, as a caveat it appears they are adding a good deal to do with avalanche, which it a step in the right direction, they also seem to be increasing the reunion foreshadowing, which dependant on how obvious they make it could lead to some interesting story potential.

I don't think we are going to have a limited level cap, assuming GS is only about an hour in(based on escape time for the reactor)...hp given in trailer 1024 by GS, 1700 by AB 2400 by Aps, following that growth curve for until motorball 5500+hp.... This is assuming that the demo growth curve isn't twisted for testing purposes which is kinda concerning if they want to make it a continuous game rather then totally separate games, I doubt this based on heavy attack damage numbers during Aps fight only being 120-169

Other concerns I have how is materia going to be implemented, as it's clearly in game and appears variable, what about these new skills, how exactly is leveling going to work, personally I feel a sphere grid Style leveling system is most practical for the remake or ff5 role system.

Motorball is either a rubbish last boss, a fun novelty boss or an excellent first boss
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-14 07:08:37
It seems too far from the original to load data correctly.
What do you mean Alyza?

-
I think anyway if true that "load data" is possible... then a level cap is a solution they might apply.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-14 19:57:45
Cross-gen hypothesis from Yosuke Matsuda (https://www.gameinformer.com/e3-2019/2019/06/12/square-enix-president-comments-on-final-fantasy-vii-remake-potentially-going): "It's the hottest topic at the moment and we thought you might ask us that," Matsuda said. "I believe that our teams have made it so that the game will support both the next generation and the current generation of consoles. I believe it is being developed so that it is going to be playable on both, so I'm not really concerned about that and I believe that the fans are also going to be able to enjoy it on both, including the next-generation of consoles."

Kitase twitter (https://twitter.com/FFVIIR_CLOUD/status/1139455076039155712): "Good day everyone, I'm Kitase, the producer of Final Fantasy VII Remake. There had been a raging wave of developments related to Final Fantasy VII Remake, from the sudden announcement in May, the release date reveal in an orchestra concert held in Los Angeles on June 9, and a playable demo at E3. But I'd be glad if all of our fans are delighted with the many surprises after waiting for so long. In doing a remake, what we first emphasized was to depict Midgar, which symbolized the world setting of the original Final Fantasy VII the most, in a charming way. We newly redesigned the interior structure of Midgar, and added new episodes as well as depictions of the daily lives of citizens who live there. Ultimately, just by depicting the story until the original's Escape From Midgar, we already reached a huge capacity with a pack of 2 Blu-ray discs, which should have enough density and volume for the world setting and storyline. To go along with that, we have optimized character growths and boss monster placements for this game, completely reconstructing it as a single standalone game, which we think will have become a title worth playing enough. We plan to develop the Final Fantasy VII remake project into multiple titles in the future, but we hope you will look forward to the release of the first title, Final Fantasy VII Remake, on March 3, 2020. June 14, 2019 Yoshinori Kitase, Producer of Final Fantasy VII Remake"

Kitase again (https://square-enix-games.com/en_GB/news/yoshinori-kitase-final-fantasy-vii-remake-overview): "While many people may think that Midgar is very dark at first glance, we have a design aesthetic where the city has strong elements of colour and variety. The lighting and colouring we are using throughout Midgar accentuate what is unique about FINAL FANTASY VII’s world. We decided not to use a photo-realistic approach with the design, but instead something more stylised, honouring the artistic designs and choices of the original."
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-14 20:15:41
Ultimately, just by depicting the story until the original's Escape From Midgar, we already reached a huge capacity with a pack of 2 Blu-ray discs, which should have enough density and volume for the world setting and storyline.

I mean.. they fit the entire open world of Final Fantasy XV into one... How damn big have they made Midgar exactly? LOL
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-14 20:20:28
Demo Minutes, 42:00 starts (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/438811036)
Max Demo Impressions Resume (Walltext coming!):
Spoiler: show
  • Saw a special behind-closed-doors media presentation (45 minute demonstration)
  • Presentation was of the entire Bombing Run mission
  • VII Remake had tons of accolades at E3
  • New voice cast hired just for VII Remake
  • Original voice cast will continue to voice other projects where the VII cast are in
  • New English language Barret voice actor feels a lot more truer to the original Barret we saw in VII
  • It appears that they have taken some mechanics out of the gameplay that we have seen in order to make it more streamlined and presentable … it feels like there is a lot more that they have hidden and not revealed to the public at this time
  • They don’t want to fuck this up – they know how much pressure in on their shoulders
  • There is a ton of nostalgic points sprinkled throughout - aimed to remind you of the original but that this is a new version of the same game, ala the RE2 remake
  • SE had been following Max for some time, especially all the reactions to the Remake, and noticed him during the event. Was able to get a picture with Kitase
  • When development was tough, the team was highly motivated by showing Max’s reaction videos – very touching for Max (he teared up on stream)
  • Replays his reaction videos for perspective about what he is going to dive into
  • It is obvious that they didn’t get rid of all of CC2’s work. It looks like it has all been repurposed instead. Starts off exactly like we saw back in the 2015 trailer
  • Just like in the original, Avalanche run past whilst Cloud is left behind to deal with the Shinra MPs. He is treated like the grunt/mercenary for hire like he is
  • Head into the train station entrance
  • Avalanche whistle to get the guards to attack Cloud, leaving them free to run into the Reactor
  • Shinra MPs have their machine guns, tonfas and grenades
  • Wedge and Jessie are trying to hack a door
  • Jessie has a sub machine gun. Constantly hits on Cloud
  • Wedge is worried if they can trust Cloud. Tries to introduce himself but Cloud isn’t interested
  • Barret warns Cloud that he better be on their side – denoting Cloud in his Shinra gear. Cloud is just here to be paid
  • Cloud has a weird flashback / memory just as the door is hacked
  • We get the classic Reactor shot as it pans up
  • The music is amazing, blends in extremely well into different themes as things happen
  • Avalanche continue to leave Cloud to deal with enemies – jokingly telling him to have fun. Wedge is the only one concerned about Cloud
  • Cloud has multiple stances. A nimble stance, a heavy brawler and a counter-hit stance. You get different combos based on this. If you are hit by a ranged attack or magic, you are punished for this by taking big damage. This stance isn’t in the playable demo
  • Everyone will have these special stances or unique aspects
  • So even the same character can play in different ways whilst also utilising the character switching
  • Biggs cutting a hole into a gate – the group go through whilst Cloud is forced to deal with things again (lol)
  • Up to this point, the dialogue is similar to the original but expanded but as soon as they get to the main elevator, the dialogue takes a huge new turn
  • Barret has a motivational speech about why they are doing this mission – really gets into it. Jessie and Cloud exchange a look during this. Barret is mad that Cloud isn’t taking this seriously. Barret says he can hear the screams of the planet and Cloud says to get help. This pisses Barret off
  • There is genuine tension between Cloud and Barret – you feel that they don’t know if they can trust this Ex-Shinra guy
  • New security system goes off, which makes them concerned about Cloud even more
  • Banter continues. Barret tries to issue orders to Cloud but Cloud keeps telling him to leave him to do his job
  • XV had some good organic banter and group dialogue … but this blows it away completely. They feel like genuinely real people. Max was most concerned about this, but not anymore. Not cringy at all. Didn’t hear anything repeated during this opening segment
  • By the Scorpion Sentinel boss fight – Cloud and Barret have bonded somewhat, due to helping each other out during that encounter
  • The characters feel like people!
  • Lip synching is perfect
  • Gameplay is super smooth. It was a live demo running on a PS4 Pro. So polished
  • No loading … at all from the start of any kind
  • Cutscenes dynamically transition into field / encounters. They are littered throughout
  • Cloud is a BIT OF A DORK!
  • The most polished game from SE. It is on another level (audio, animation, transitioning, no loading, banter/dialogue, intuitive music ….) It felt like they spent a year and a half just on the Bombing Run
  • The big worry is how the hell the rest of the game will match this same quality!
  • You can flee from a fight. If you are faster than your opponent, they will eventually lose interest and return to their positions
  • The music is SO intuitive. During the different phases of the Boss fights. When Cloud does a Cross Slash, the choir suddenly kicks in and out
  • There were combos within the game – it does more damage if you combine character moves at the same time
  • There was a bit of a hint that they have a TON more mechanics and gameplay aspects that they have in store that they don’t want to reveal just yet. Max felt like the game was opening up and had this in store in the future
  • Still shocked at the quality. Hard to process this being for the whole game!
  • So hard to discuss this game with non-players. It seriously NEEDS to be experienced
  • Can’t stop thinking about the game
  • Jessie is super cool in this version – Max’s favourite so far. “I appreciate you talking to me, but how about you go down there and blow her mind instead” (in reference to the Reactor). The dialogue is so awesome
  • Wedge sounds a lot different to the previous trailer
  • They are teasing the relationship aspects – which is integral to VII
  • They are trying to preserve the characters as much as possible
  • He prays that SE releases the Bombing Run demo to the public, like Capcom did with the RE 2 Remake
  • They said they are aware of what everyone loves about Midgar and their experiences. They will have everything that people love … but there will be a ton more
  • In Max’s opinion, the subsequent games will all play differently and have different mechanics. He envisions part II being completely open world and so different to Part I. Lots of vehicle use/action. Doesn’t expect much to transition over between the different parts
  • One of the biggest takeaways from everything is that SE want this to be immersive and seamless. This will carry through onto Part II and the open world. He expects it to be on PS5 (his opinion)
  • Showed the famitsu footage – clean from the presentation without the commentary
  • If Barret staggers an opponent, he says ‘Shit Yeah!’
  • You get a great sense of scale of everything
  • When you kill enemies, you don’t get a traditional win screen. The menu is very clean and simple
  • He didn’t see it himself, but he heard that Barret can hum the victory theme and Cloud tells him to ‘shut up’
  • President Shinra and Heideggar are completely aware of what Avalanche is doing. They are watching their activities from the monitors. The Shinra theme is amazing – done with strings and presented very hauntingly and evil. Super dark. A lot of the music is brooding – leaves you with despair, just like the world of Midgar
  • The game takes advantage of the fact that you know who these characters are. Things are introduced before you see characters. The way the characters are talking, it feels like Tifa feels sorry for Cloud, which is why he is being offered this job
  • PSX 2015 trailer. Max says the opening scene has been re-choreographed. The sequence is completely different. The tone is so different compared to the 2015 trailer. Everything feels a lot more faster too. Such a different game to what we saw. They didn’t trash all of CC2’s work. It is just so much more polished and snappier
  • He is trying to find something wrong with it … he can’t. The only (extremely minor) thing is that the camera sometimes isn’t amazing
  • Steve Burton was great for what they wanted to do, but for the more dorkier Cloud (and one more cocky / faithful to the original) he is glad they are going with this new actor. “That’s my line”. Max loves the cheese-ball one liners from Cloud. CC Cloud didn’t feel like Cloud aside from when he was mako poisoned
  • Difficulty – it wasn’t super difficult, but even the devs said that it was meant as a tutorial for the players. But even in the Scorpion boss fight you lose a lot of health and it takes 15 minutes to complete entirely
  • Using items is attached to the ATB gauge. To get ATB gauge you need to fight
  • Showed the PS3 tech demo for laughs
  • Cloud’s hair is more similar to his original design
  • Original gameplay comparison. The Midgar panning out to the train running in is different. You cut to the soldiers once the pan out to Midgar is complete. Barret runs off to leave you to tackle the guards like in the original
  • Security officers have all the same moves from the original
  • Cloud trash talks the Security Officers
  • You get a new train station segment from the train stopping to the gate (you see it in the trailer – where Jessie says “have fun”).
  • Lots of new dialogue
  • You can’t change the character’s names
  • Barret and Cloud tension, and you feel that around the other characters
  • During the pan up to the Reactor, you cut to the tower and President Shinra watching everything
  • Cross Slash is Cloud’s limit. Braver was a move / skill
  • You go through corridors rather than outside area once past the gate
  • The Reactor entrance, you don’t get the same perspective when you run in until after Cloud looks up – it gives you the huge scale of everything
  • Cloud has a flashback/moment right before this
  • If the Mono Drives float above Cloud, he will jump up to air combo them. So though there is no manual jump, if they are within his reach, he can attack flying opponents
  • In the Reactor, there is a whole new sequence – Biggs cutting through the grate. A lot more intense than in the original. They trust Cloud to know where to go
  • The Reactor music is incredible
  • There are golden-looking chests
  • The elevator sequence is there in the Remake, but it is different, especially the lead-in
  • Anything with Shinra logo on it is destructible, so you can break boxes or open chests for loot. You can ‘attack’ out of combat
  • Demo on floor was unlocked framerate but one Max was watching was 30 fps
  • Barret and Cloud have their fight right after the elevator. Music kicks in and lasers shoot down. Character switching tutorial – shows you how to switch to Barret. Barret looked like he was going to shoot Cloud but he shot an opponent behind him. Cloud doesn’t even flinch from the shot. Barret is the long-range fighter. They really gave this a lot of thought. It feels like the original, but a new twist on the gameplay
  • The demo ended where (in the original) Jessie teaches you how to go down the ladder. In the Remake, there are no ladders, it is a big spiral staircase down into the underbelly of the Reactor. Tons of enemies on the way down. Jessie points out where the Reactor core is
  • Limits still build from damage. Especially blocking
  • No Sweepers or Grunts were available in the Bombing Run demo that was played
  • If you run around and dodge too much, you didn’t get much ATB bars
  • Not sure if MP was regenerated from normal attacking
  • During the boss fight, he noticed the items that were available to him. Cloud’s inventory changed – he had grenades and some other items
  • Cloud is confused by the Scorpion Sentinel’s ability to heal / regenerate
  • No functioning menu for Materia yet, or the characters / equipment, etc…
  • From the top of the Reactor to the bottom is about x4 longer than the original game
  • No save points in the demo – presented as a tutorial
  • Barret asks you to set the bomb. He says something like Tifa trusts you but he doesn’t. He wants Cloud to prove that he can trust him. Cloud aggressively says fine and sets the bomb
  • You don’t get the ‘this isnt’ a reactor’ line. Instead you get a flashback/moment. He holds his head. It’s not all red and ear screeching… just a single black feather that falls to the ground and dissipates. Alarms set off and that’s when the moment ends
  • The Scorpion Sentinel can scan you. If he does, he can grab the character and disable them. You have to switch to Barret, and if you attack him enough, you get released
  • Stone Skin – gives Barret less damage and stunning. Barret is a tank
  • The game is chapter based. Chapter 1 "The Mako Reactor". Might get a chapter completion bonus?
  • No jump button
  • Feels NOTHING like CC
  • You can hold down button to continuously attack, but Cloud has different moves. If you press the button repeatedly instead of holding it down, you do a longer combo
  • Barret was just hold down to shoot. Barret doesn't have to reload
  • Extrapolates the combos that could happen with Materia added into the mix
  • For everyone who complained about Turn Based not being in the game - Tactical Mode solves that completely. You can play it like that, or as an action RPG
  • You don't get to see the escape after the Reactor explodes in the presentation demo
Credit: Max for video/ Claymore for the text resume
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-14 22:56:42
For everyone who complained about Turn Based not being in the game - Tactical Mode solves that completely. You can play it like that, or as an action RPG

------

No, it doesn't.  They said the same kind of thing about ff12 and it was unplayable in the obviously non intended mode.  We can see with our own eyes what they've done to the battle mechanics.  Them pretending it isn't so is not conning me. 

Also, it's not about how many things you can find that are flashy or catchy - it's about pacing, writing, and soul. All of which the game already show a chronic lack of.

It always seems to be the case that before a game that shows early signs of some serious flaws is released,  people create a deluge of excuses and alternate explanations or else dwell on graphical power.  But for me personally, I already see all the reasons I'll dislike the game - even if others will end up loving it.  8)

- Also, they've stuck to inferior translations - like Cross Slash. Once again, they'll pander to "canon".  And I bet Genesis etc all get roped in.

 ::) :)


Oh and @topic thanks for the massive post kurando. Not gonna lie while I certainly anticipate this game to an extent, im not hyped enough to plow through it all so I gave up halfway through the list but I can certainly apreciate the effort put into it.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-06-15 00:46:42
I wonder if they'll release a special FF7:R version of the PS4 Pro. I don't own one, but I might finally cave  8)

Or...Google Stadia  :-[
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Napper on 2019-06-16 15:03:18
Thanks for the long post Kuraudo. The game sounds great. I'm relieved by the combat mechanics. I would have been hitting my head off the keyboard if they decided to keep it pure turn based (yes i know the original is great, but i don't want a carbon copy).
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Caledor on 2019-06-16 15:55:35
Demo Minutes, 42:00 starts (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/438811036)
Max Demo Impressions Resume (Walltext coming!):

So far looks really good to me and i'd be lying if i said i wasn't excited. I'm liking the gameplay as well and I think they've nailed it: feels action enough without being mere button mashing or AI driven (Gambits were a mistake). I want to believe they're putting a tremendous amount of care into this, more than they've ever done to any other project. The main worry is "how much" they will expand each part and how it'll fit with the whole story, but that's probably the last thing we'll get to know.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-19 07:45:51
Famitsu - Nomura Interview. (https://twinfinite.net/2019/06/final-fantasy-vii-remake-famitsu/) - More accurate translation


New Renders:
Famitsu Interview pages:
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: ExDuelist on 2019-06-19 10:07:44
Square Enix ethics team told developers to “tighten her chest” to avoid getting jiggly during intense action.[/li][/list]

Japanese people against jiggling, now i've seen them all.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Izban on 2019-06-19 10:24:38
Squares ethics committee is likely from the NA branch
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: ExDuelist on 2019-06-19 11:58:34
Squares ethics committee is likely from the NA branch

Alright then, nothing out of place.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-19 16:52:37
New Cloud and Aerith renders. Famitsu pages... see above post (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=18973.msg265660#msg265660).
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-19 22:20:57
These renders give me a weird cosplay vibe, cant put my finger on it, possibly "too realistic" or something, not sure how to put it but they feel off :P
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LordUrQuan on 2019-06-20 00:51:30
These renders give me a weird cosplay vibe, cant put my finger on it, possibly "too realistic" or something, not sure how to put it but they feel off :P
I think the term you're looking for is uncanny valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-20 09:34:35
There we go.

"More modern" is just a mealy-mouth way of saying "We've dumbed down because muh outraged political correct idiots."

This is another reason the original will always have a special appeal... because it will always have a feeling of being more adult and not this childish slapstick.
Ahah I knew it you're gonna comment Nomura's statement!

So far looks really good to me and i'd be lying if i said i wasn't excited. I'm liking the gameplay as well and I think they've nailed it: feels action enough without being mere button mashing or AI driven (Gambits were a mistake). I want to believe they're putting a tremendous amount of care into this, more than they've ever done to any other project. The main worry is "how much" they will expand each part and how it'll fit with the whole story, but that's probably the last thing we'll get to know.
Caledor that is a big question mark on how they'll manage the other parts. However, I agree with you, I believe that Square-Enix knows how much fans will destroy them if anything goes bad. Even though, I'm still worried of the second and third part... I feel a lot will depend from the sales.

Edit:
Gaia (https://twitter.com/finalfantasyvii/status/1141537403141853184)'s term confirmed from Aerith skill.

Aaand one more for DLPB's happiness: "FFVIIのコンピレーション作品で判明した設定が新たに盛り込まれたりと、ストリーの面でも厚みが増やしている " ("Settings established in the FFVII Compilation works are newly incorporated and the story has been delved more deeply into." )

No doubts about it.  ::)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2019-06-21 00:55:04
The problem with the episodic thing is that every episode needs to be better than the one before. This however means, that we get bigger and bigger games and in the worst case it starts to get boring rather than entertaining. Especially in the last part of a game SE becomes very uninnovative and just pull the stats to ridicules numbers instead of being creative.
What's also interesting how they will allow the player to travel? I mean they need to merge somehow the games in the end. But I guess they will kick out the worldmap and make a fast travel system similar to FFX. This way they would have much more control.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Izban on 2019-06-21 06:18:43
I'm thinking that the bike is gonna play a big part in how we traverse midgar, assuming it's as big as they are making it sound...only problem with that is why do they leave the truck and bike at the end of midgar seeing as how useful they are in and around midgar.

Kinda hoping they make the avalanche crew temp party members for sections in place of the characters we miss out on due to locking us in midgar that would make platefall far more impactful, even though we are definitely gonna make us know Biggs, Wedge and Jessie far better anyhow
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-06-22 06:35:21
Other details from Playstation Blog (https://blog.us.playstation.com/2019/06/12/how-combat-in-final-fantasy-vii-remake-blends-the-best-of-both-worlds/).



Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-22 16:02:57
You'll end up with huge parts of the original story being missed.

Expanding a small portion of the original story into a full game (which is true independent of the amount of resources inversted into visual fidelity) leads to huge parts of the original story being missed? Elaborate.
 
I also think it ruins the immersion of the story when you see your characters fighting something like this - as it then transitions to the main story and looks absurd.  In the original game,  you separated battle from story.  Here - it's part of it and looks stupid.

And no offence but this whole statement simply makes no logical sense from an objective point of view (best case scenario i could grant it being valid in your personal preference but you clearly didnt frame in that way). But if you think it does then please elaborate becasue standing like this it truly looks like a desperate attempt to be negative at all costs ^^

I mean dont take it the wrong way, (Imo) most of your replies cant be taken seriously due to obvious extreme emotional bias/attachment to the original, but they are usually relatively entertaining, but those 2 are just stilly ^^
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-22 17:31:10
Pointing out what i deem exaggerated rhetoric is not aequivalent to defending the game at all costs or like a fanboy (especailly since I clearly am not emotionally invested which is often linked to what people refer to as fanboyism), not by any margin, so that line makes very little sense in the context. And actually its not me who needs to read/ word their statements properly; There is a fundamental difference between badly delivering a given story and "missing huge parts" (verbatum) of a story in a format that in fact stretches a given story out by a significant amount of time (and justifying that statement by wrongly allocated resources, which is only tangentially related as the lack of resources, given the format and context we talk about, would primarily affect quality of delivery), and that economics line was just silly/unnecessary btw.

The rest of what you said isnt really worth adressing and im sure you understand why (considering that big brain youre clearly confident to have :))

But ill promise ill just smirk in silence at any of your future replies  and keep my thoughts on them to myself, so lets just agree to disagree ::)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-22 20:04:35
There's a reason why being stabbed in a cutscene and being shot in the face by Rufus in battle are not taken as the same thing [and in the remake will be forced to be because of how it's being presented].  How's it going to look when cutscenes show people being blown away and Aerith dies from a single stab wound?   ::)

Yes, cause this was definitely never done on millions of other games. It's not we haven't had games in which main characters fight and defeat God-tier villains and yet can't open certain treasure chests at certain times. Must mean treasure chest>Villain. Unplayable! It definitely has to be 100% realistic to make sense. It's definitely a whole new concept that SE has come up with and will not make any sense.  ::)

And you're a fanboy who'll defend it all costs "imo".

And you're a hater that will keep crying about it at all costs "imo".
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Caledor on 2019-06-22 23:17:40
You should read what I wrote.  Devoting massive resources to graphics takes time away from other areas of the game.  You realize this thing has a deadline and a budget... right?

ATM i think the opposite in my optimism. My opinion is that they don't care about budget and they can parallelize work by assigning battle graphics and story to entirely different teams. About the budget i'm convinced they will probably ignore it in the belief that if they do a good job, any budget they put in it will return a hundredfold, while if they screw this up it will haunt them forever. Scrapping most of CC2's work after 2 years only reinforced this belief.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: sithlord48 on 2019-06-23 13:30:25
FF7Remake is unrealistic are you kidding? There are very very few parts of Pick any FF game that are realistic. That is just a poor argument.

Im going to guess you never played FF15 because if you had you would be able to tell how different the combat is. The combat does look like kinda like 15 but it doesn't function like 15. in 15 you got a few moves when your filled a bunch of attack bars In FF7R its ATB, where the bar fills over time and also with attacks (yeah i hope they drop the with attacks parts). I would have really like pure menu based ATB combat but thats unrealistic so you would hate it. I started looking into the battle system more reading and watching what those played the demo at e3 said (im sure you will just say they are paid to make it sound good).  You can do a block or standard shit attacks like a normal attack until your time bar fills up and you get a menu where you can use items etc.. I really hope there is an auto pause mode option for this as i think most of us would want to play that way and you don't have to hold a button like in FF15. Yeah you can map shortcuts for those who don't want to dig thru the menu to find an attack and or spam the same attack alot. Kinda like memory option that many menu based systems have so you can quickly get to the command you want. So i can't really hate on that feature at all as its literally a more modernized method of the memory option.

Do I think that FF7R is doing everything perfectly? NO there is a lot I have concerns about. How are saves gonna work for other parts? Will they just become DLC for this game, sadly maybe the best way to do the episodes to keep a consistent experience thought all parts. ?  Game 1 ends when you leave midgar and is two full blurays ? That alone has me worried Are all the textures 4k or 8k to future proof for ps5? is the game 100% voice acted? is it tons of cutscenes? What is all this data?  what did they add to the midgar section to make it longer? why is sephiroth showing up in midgar in what look to be around bombing mission? More i can't even think of right now. Its looking like this could be done as well as the RE2 Remake so yes I'm excited to see how it turns out.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-23 15:39:27
If you have seamless battles with cutscenes showing your characters shot and stabbed - and then you see Aerith killed by a single stab, how do you reconcile those?

Creepy looking Planetary-scale being with 5 meter sword and glorious white hair>fodder lvl 10 enemy.  It's not that hard.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: sithlord48 on 2019-06-23 16:17:50
It's not a poor argument.  And I'm not talking about realism - I'm talking about believability in the world presented - Storytelling.  They're completely different things.  Unless you think anything should happen for any reason - which is bad story telling. Again, read what I wrote. If you have seamless battles with cutscenes showing your characters shot and stabbed - and then you see Aerith killed by a single stab, how do you reconcile those?  In the original game, you separated battle from story and suspended disbelief.  You can't do that with the remake.

Your argument is a poor argument because this is a literally a trope in the medium. So let me ask you Does this mean chrono trigger or any game where you can see the mobs on screen is shit from a realism perspective?

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ on 2019-06-23 17:32:51
Why does improved graphics equal poor storytelling?  Surely then we should just go back to a time before movies and video games, or even picture books.  Good storytelling is enhanced by quality visuals and audio, not the other way around.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: hotdog963al on 2019-06-23 21:47:20
I thought the remake was going to be terrible, I was going to avoid it, but DLPB is making me want to give it a chance!
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-24 00:21:02
I can't make my position on this any clearer than that. FF12, 13, 14, 15, the spin offs, the sad "remasters", and Advent Children, and the released info and scenes so far from FF7r all point to me being right.

FF12 is amazing. FF14 is one of the most successful MMORPGs ever and 15 is fun as hell. While not as good as the others, 13 is still enjoyable. Next.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-06-24 02:13:33
12 is good, but it doesn't hold a candle to 10 and prior.

13 is not good...you can like it, that's fine. But others' liking does not convince me it's a good game. No one can change my mind on that.

14 is successful, but success only measures success. I've tried it several times after new expansion releases, and every time something just felt missing. I think it's maybe the good story tied down by boring kill/fetch quests. I don't really do well with MMOs in general.

15 I never played. I watched some videos online but nothing grabbed at my attention to warrant a PS4/game purchase. I can't knock it for that, but it's hard to praise either when first impressions weren't "fun as hell" for me.

FF7:R has my interest, but probably moreso due to nastalgia. It feels more like a battle to hold onto my beloved original, rather than trying to embrace this new vision. Gotta see more before I can begin to parse my thoughts on it.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-24 02:51:28
12 is good, but it doesn't hold a candle to 10 and prior.

12's pace, voice acting, dialogues and even the combat are all amazing. The story itself is also great. Some of the characters don't have very interesting backgrounds but it's definitely one of the good Final fantasy games.

You should give 15 a go. The combat might not blow you away but the characters are all pretty good and their friendship, leading all the way to the end has some twists that you might not expect. The story isn't bad either but they screwed up by having it split into movies, game, DLC. And well, you can snatch it for PS4 for like 15 bucks so it's not all that expensive anymore.


FF7:R has my interest, but probably moreso due to nastalgia. It feels more like a battle to hold onto my beloved original, rather than trying to embrace this new vision. Gotta see more before I can begin to parse my thoughts on it.

The best thing about it, and a thing that everyone appears to overlook is that you don't need to fight that battle. You can get the remake and enjoy it, you can keep the original and enjoy it. It's a new take on FF7, not a replacement. The original will always be there for you. Available pretty much on any console, tablet, phone. I'm sure you could even get it on some of Samsung's fridges if you really wanted it.

This is why I don't get the whole crying and moaning about the remake. Don't like it? Great. The original is there for you and will always be.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-06-24 08:03:17
The best thing about it, and a thing that everyone appears to overlook is that you don't need to fight that battle. You can get the remake and enjoy it, you can keep the original and enjoy it. It's a new take on FF7, not a replacement. The original will always be there for you. Available pretty much on any console, tablet, phone. I'm sure you could even get it on some of Samsung's fridges if you really wanted it.

This is why I don't get the whole crying and moaning about the remake. Don't like it? Great. The original is there for you and will always be.

Welp, it's a huuuge missed opportunity to have a massive production team remaking FF7 legally, the "right(ish)" way, instead of creating FF7R: the DBZ-matrix-realism-crap reboot lol. Same with most of the other FF ports/remakes, instead here it's wasted by cheap and lazy production cycles. But, shrug, I don't really care, SE is pretty much a lost cause in the FF department as far as I'm concerned.

Whereas the cryers may cry, there are at least 10x as many who seemingly just loves whatever SE throws at them regarding FF7r. There are plenty of reaction vids out there with more cringeworthy statements to count.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-24 12:55:41
Welp, it's a huuuge missed opportunity to have a massive production team remaking FF7 legally, the "right(ish)" way, instead of creating FF7R: the DBZ-matrix-realism-crap reboot lol. Same with most of the other FF ports/remakes, instead here it's wasted by cheap and lazy production cycles. But, shrug, I don't really care, SE is pretty much a lost cause in the FF department as far as I'm concerned.

Whereas the cryers may cry, there are at least 10x as many who seemingly just loves whatever SE throws at them regarding FF7r. There are plenty of reaction vids out there with more cringeworthy statements to count.

Most remasters have been great actually. 10/10-2 look and play amazing on modern generations/PC and include all the international content that the original US release didn't, 12 is AMAZING since it not only includes the international's zodiac job system but it also includes many new additions. 3 for the DS/Android is a great game, 4 is absolutely amazing on the DS and even on Android especially since they went with a more difficult version. 7 plays great on PS4/switch and FF5 for Android is one of the best games I've played. Sure, some of the other ports have issues but most of them are good.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-06-24 15:40:11
Fair enough; aside from FF3 and 4 I can agree with you. The 3D versions of 3 and 4 are rather awkward imo, but admittedly it's 'cause of the style they chose. It feels more like, I dunno, pokemon games...  It may somewhat fit FF3, but personally, I still prefer the NES version. I couldn't recommend any of the original NES versions though. They haven't aged well, considering things like convenient features and those horrible encounter rates.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kefka on 2019-06-24 17:54:06
My thoughts on the remake so far:

Graphics and presentation overall are top-notch, but that was to be expected anyway, seeing as those are the points that SE has been focusing on in all of their main FF games for the last 10 or so years while neglecting more important things like gameplay and story (cough*FFXIII*cough). The character design doesn't look half-bad, save for a few design choices that really left me scratching my head. I understand Tifa's bra, but why would Barret need sun glasses in a city where you can't even see the sky most of the time (the slums being below the plate)?

Anyway, on to the more important points:

The battle system: Personally I would've preferred the classic ATB system, so when they first announced an action-oriented combat system for the remake I felt quite disappointed. I'm not saying that action-based systems are bad in general, but they're simply not my style. Their recent announcement that you should be able to choose between action mode or turn-based mode does make me feel a LITTLE better, at least, but as others have said already, it'll all depend on how they implement that. I can hardly imagine having two different combat systems in one and the same game, so I'll remain sceptical about this one... unfortunately it's impossible to judge the battle system just from watching trailers, as you can't see which/how many buttons the player needs to press in order to perform the actions on screen.

As for the episodic release, that was perhaps the biggest bummer to me when I first heard about it, leaving me with the same questions that so many others have asked already: how are they going to handle level-ups? Or the World Map? Will there even be one? I cannot imagine FFVII without one, yet at the same time, I don't see SE coming up with a world map again, seeing as they've scrapped that idea even for FFXV where such a thing was originally planned. How will data transfer from one episode to the next be handled (not just stats, materia and items, but also treasure chests openend, sidequest completed, dialogue choices i.e. love points for the Gold Saucer date)? Will it be possible to revisit locations from earlier episodes? They very much need to be, seeing as most of discs 2 and 3 in the original consisted of revisiting former towns and dungeons again. But that would mean that all locations have to be present on every blue-ray, and if that's truly the case the very choice of making the remake episodic in the first place becomes... questionable...

Finally, about the 'believability' discussion: I can understand what DLPB means. On older consoles, battles in RPGs were meant to be merely symbolic and not to be taken seriously. There has always been a clear differentiation of what a character can do in a battle, and what he's capable of in 'field mode'. Every fictional world, despite being a fantasy universe only, still has to follow its own inherent rules to maintain credibility within its story. The characters in FFVII were always supposed to represent regular people like you and me, and while their physical capabilities may exceed those of others due to some of them being martial artists and/or having undergone military training, it never went out of control in the original game.

That changed with the Compilation, starting with Advent children: I've only watched AC once, but I still somewhat remember that battle against Bahamut in Midgar. The one that ends with Cloud jumping/getting thrown endlessly high up in the air (you can see the city of Midgar waaaayy down below), slicing Bahamut, and then dropping back to earth and landing on his feet... unhurt! And those are the kind of scenes that rob the universe and its characters of any credibility, for no one can seriously buy that Cloud would ever be able to pull something like that off. It goes against the very nature of the FFVII universe. Or did you never ask yourself: if the party characters were indeed capable of jumping that high, why did they ever bother to climb the floors of the Shinra headquarter by foot? According to AC, they should've been able to just jump from the building's entrance to the top floor and be done with it.

And that's the entire point of the believability discussion. The original game had established a clear set of 'rules' for the FFVII universe (most of which follow the same rules as the real world as far as human physical capabilities go), and AC started to violate those. The characters of the original weren't any godlike superhumans, as they've never displayed any such skills outside of battles. They couldn't jump up to the high voltage pole in Junon on their own, they needed a dolphin to help them. They couldn't just smash through walls in buildings, they had to take the doors. They were meant to be normal, albeit physically well-trained people. Yet AC started to turn them into Dragonball characters, something that simply doesn't fit into this game, and quite frankly has no place in it.

The bottom line is: Anything that happens in battles is there merely for the player's entertainment and has no bearing on the games' respective universe, save for scripted battles that are specifically designed for story purposes (e.g. Tellah getting killed by Golbez, Galuf getting killed by Exdeath, General Leo getting killed by Kefka etc.).
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: sithlord48 on 2019-06-24 18:28:32
Quote

Did you miss the shitstorm that went down with the latest season of Game of Thrones?
I've never seen a single episode of Game of Thrones
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-06-25 08:52:23
Spot on Kefka.

Judgment is still due on the battle system, but one can't deny that the "realism" style they go for, combined with what we've seen so far for the battle system, slaps said realism in its face. Who knows, maybe they'll somehow make it work with its internal logic... No, no they won't lol. It will look cool and all, but you have to leave logic aside in order to enjoy it. That's ok imo, as long as you admit it. That's what you do when you watch just about any mainstream action movie. One may enjoy it, but don't make excuses to try and make sense out of it.

What bothers me the most is not fan reactions, the realistic style or the fact that it will be an ARPG. It's the reasoning from the top-brass-devs in SE. Their reasoning has a very corporate ring to it, and are sometimes followed by leading, manipulative suggestions. Example: "It will be an ARPG, like one would expect." This kind of reasoning doesn't come from the passion of making a game. It's carefully considered reasoning that comes from a AAA company out for your moneh. Suddenly, since "one would expect" an ARPG, making it a traditional JRPG "would be a waste" for many. Its pure BS.

Yes, It's all fine that companies make money and creates opportunities and work for many, but I can still call BS on their sugar-coated statements.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kefka on 2019-06-25 16:08:42
By the way, what are your thoughts on this specific point from the interview?

Famitsu - Nomura Interview. (https://twinfinite.net/2019/06/final-fantasy-vii-remake-famitsu/) - More accurate translation

  • Nomura-san explains that the shadow that appears at the end of the latest trailer is something that has been added for the Remake. They are called "The Guardians of Destiny" (Unmei no Bannin 運命の番人, video (https://imgur.com/eR1eHvM)) , and it’s a mysterious existence that appears in front of the party. He hopes that those who played the original game will enjoy these new elements.

"Guardians of Destiny"... if they're indeed what their name implies, then that would be a HUGE alteration to the entire FFVII universe, and not one for the better, I fear. So now there are some new higher beings/deities that control the characters' fate? Making sure they take a certain path in life? Like the Occuria from FFXII, or what? I must say, I'm honestly VERY worried about this...
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: sithlord48 on 2019-06-25 16:21:21
Hey say what you want about Lucas but, his movies are holding up alot better then what disney has done since they got a hold of it and its only been a few years...
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: sithlord48 on 2019-06-25 16:24:20
Idk that is completely fair to blame only him for crystal skull, he only co-wrote it. He wrote and directed ep 1-3 of star wars.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LordUrQuan on 2019-06-26 13:22:24
Idk that is completely fair to blame only him for crystal skull, he only co-wrote it. He wrote and directed ep 1-3 of star wars.

Phantom Menace
Anakin = 6 years old.
Padme = 20 years old.

Attack of the clones
Anakin = 25 years old.
Padme = 25 years old.

Anybody see a problem here?
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2019-06-26 15:31:20
Phantom Menace
Anakin = 6 years old.
Padme = 20 years old.

Attack of the clones
Anakin = 25 years old.
Padme = 25 years old.

Anybody see a problem here?

She lies about her age? Well she's not the first one. Or she did a lot of space travel.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LordUrQuan on 2019-06-26 16:56:29
She lies about her age? Well she's not the first one. Or she did a lot of space travel.
Not sure there is necessarily lying involved (unless she looks insanely good for 40 but if that's the case, why does Mon Mothma look like someone bordering on retirement?).  The only non-plot-destroying alternative would be that she's a really early bloomer and only 12 or 13 during TPM, while Anakin is really late and actually 10ish.  As I understand it, the whole "space travel keeps you young" thing only applies when traveling at relativistic speeds, which hyperspace isn't.

I think he means the casting of the actors too... it looks ridiculous.
It's just the whole plot hole aspect of it.  Anakin's supposed to be this cute (but very whiny) kid in tPM while Padme's probably out of the Naboo-equivalent of grad school, then suddenly they're close enough to be dating in AotC, and having kids in RotS?

As for actor casting, Hayden Christensen was stiff, but carried off the rebellious teenager well enough (though he just looks dumb being spliced into RotJ next to Alec Guinness' Ben Kenobi).  I actually like him as Anakin more than I do Adam Driver as Kylo Ren (maybe it's just the makeup; he reminds me too much of Alan Rickman's Professor Snape).  But just like Nicole Kidman, I'll never complain about seeing Natalie Portman on the screen. Waaaaaayyyy back in the deep dark days (I'm talking almost 20 years ago), there was even a NP fan club on my Earth and Beyond server, lead by none other than a total nutter named Screwdriver 8-)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-27 14:29:16
"Speaking of costume design, Nomura-san explained that the team aimed for it to be quite realistic visually, taking real designs of clothes and accessories as reference. For instance, Tifa’s suspenders are inspired by real ones for military use, while her gloves reference those used for riding bikes and fighting. The body silhouette didn’t change from the original version, but the team has tried to improve such details."

Why did they do this? We do not want it to be realistic, we would want it to be like the original? It's named Final Fantasy VII - not Final Realistic VII.. In other words it's supposed to be a fantasy, and fantasy isn't realistic.. The original style of characters such as Jessie and Tifa were way superior. And i would choose that over realistic anyday.. If i'd wanted realistic i could look at a woman outside my window.

"Developers wanted Tifa to have visible abs, so they gave her the body style of an athlete. There were instructions from the internal ethics department, and it was decided to constrict her chest [Editor’s Note: the context and wording indicate clearly that this refers to the tightness and design of Tifa’s clothing, not to her chest size] so that it wouldn’t look unnatural even during fierce action. Therefore, the team created a design for her upper torso, with black underwear and a body-fitting tank top replacing the original simple one. It’s a sporty design inspired by fitness."

Unnatural is all fine in a fantasy.. Guess Final Fantasy ain't a fantasy anymore. The tightness and original clothing is what i enjoyed the most about Tifa.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-27 14:52:20
"And that's precisely why the majority who loved the original game wanted it to be a proper remaster and not this awful modern hybrid tripe."

Yes, not a remaster with the old models.. A remaster with the PS4 graphics.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-27 14:54:37
"And that's precisely why the majority who loved the original game wanted it to be a proper remaster and not this awful modern hybrid tripe."

Yes, not a remaster with the old models.. A remaster with the PS4 graphics.

Wrong. The LARGE majority of people are excited for the remake. The people crying their eyes out about it are definitely a small minority.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-27 14:58:06
Wrong. The LARGE majority of people are excited for the remake. The people crying their eyes out about it are definitely a small minority.
If people could choose between FF7 original with PS4 graphics, and the FF7 Remake - they'd prefer the original with PS4 graphics.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-27 14:58:57
If people could choose between FF7 original with PS4 graphics, and the FF7 Remake - they'd prefer the original with PS4 graphics.

Wrong again. Maybe some people, including you would choose that. I would not. neither would a ton of people. Pretty positive that if you made a poll with EVERY SINGLE human being that ever played FF7, the remake would win hands down.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-27 15:30:42
More terrible doesn't make Lucas' shambles good.  Not to mention Crystal Skull..... At least with Disney, you knew it was gonna be crap.  Their eyes were set on the money and merchandise they could sell from day 1.

I think Star Wars: Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, is the third best movie, the second best is Return of the Jedi (used to be number one when i were a kid) and the best one is Empire Strikes back.

So in my opinion A New Hope is worse than Revenge of the Sith, because it had sucky lightsaber battles - but it still is the most successful movie in the franchise because it were the first released.

Disney Star wars is just trash.. Destroyed by forced politics.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-27 15:33:09
Ignore Ric, mr nygren.  He's not got any logic or understanding as to what made the original game good and even defended the latest season of GoT.

Wrong. The latest season sucked. Nowhere did I say otherwise.

He also likes trolling. 

I only troll stupid people.

You're right that most fans wanted this remake to be an update of the original.

You got 0 evidence to back that claim up. Again, maybe you two would want that. You have the right to your opinion. Don't claim to speak for "all" or even "most" fans though.

Some people are living in a dream world.

Correct, Mr. "MU IQ IS VERY HIGHHHH" "MUUUU IMDB REVIEWWWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSSSS".


Edit: Shite.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-06-27 16:36:03
(https://www.gameaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/FinalFantasyVIIRemake-E3-2019-Tifa-Combat.jpg)

I don't agree. It's your opinion to think so, but hear me out on this. Based upon what you're saying, Advent Children would have also catered to feminists, but almost 15 years ago before the identity politics of today's Western society came into fruition?

Square Enix is a Japanese company first and foremost, and Final Fantasy is their Japanese franchise. I've lived in Japan for long enough now to know that society here functions much differently than the Western world. All the identity representation [nonsense] currently thrown into Western media and entertainment...it's not here. Most Japanese people are ignorant to its existence, and those who may get a whiff of it from the internet, don't care enough to ever talk about it. Another fact is that the majority of the player base is male, and the Japanese gaming industry heavily favors male loving aesthetics. They don't tone down characters because feminist activists [whom don't exist in Japan] demanded it do so. Trust me on this one...it's not a feminist thing.

I personally don't mind the new look they've given, but still enjoy the original the best. The changes themselves at least match pretty well. Barret with sunglasses though? That one will take awhile to grow on me.

This is my take as well. And we know it's a good system seeing how the Hardcore mod and New Threat have shown us what could have been developed instead.
(https://www.gameaxis.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/FinalFantasyVIIRemake-E3-2019-Tifa-Combat.jpg)

I don't agree. It's your opinion to think so, but hear me out on this. Based upon what you're saying, Advent Children would have also catered to feminists, but almost 15 years ago before the identity politics of today's Western society came into fruition?

Square Enix is a Japanese company first and foremost, and Final Fantasy is their Japanese franchise. I've lived in Japan for long enough now to know that society here functions much differently than the Western world. All the identity representation [nonsense] currently thrown into Western media and entertainment...it's not here. Most Japanese people are ignorant to its existence, and those who may get a whiff of it from the internet, don't care enough to ever talk about it. Another fact is that the majority of the player base is male, and the Japanese gaming industry heavily favors male loving aesthetics. They don't tone down characters because feminist activists [whom don't exist in Japan] demanded it do so. Trust me on this one...it's not a feminist thing.

I personally don't mind the new look they've given, but still enjoy the original the best. The changes themselves at least match pretty well. Barret with sunglasses though? That one will take awhile to grow on me.

This is my take as well. And we know it's a good system seeing how the Hardcore mod and New Threat have shown us what could have been developed instead.

Hey Eq2Alyza, you brought up Advent Children, but i had forgotten that Advent Children did portray Tifa right in the "earlier history" scene - and FF Dissidia Duodecim 12 also had a Tifa with the original style. If Advent Children and Dissidia duodecim 12 could keep the style, why not the remake? The breast-size were lowered in those as well - and that is fine! (It were outrageous in the original FMV's).. But, giving her stockings and changing her skirt, the tightness of her top etc - that is simply heresy.

Advent Children Tifa with the original clothing looks way better than the new.

(https://www.wallpaperup.com/uploads/wallpapers/2014/03/15/299217/908340d85dbbb7d4b9ce8b6218a5cb2a-700.jpg)

Tifa in Final Fantasy VII Dissidia was perfect, it had better clothing than the new:

(https://www.models-resource.com/resources/big_icons/1/785.png)

Tifa in the new Dissidia is perfect, but the Remake has a better face to be honest - replace the body with this though:

(https://i.imgtc.ws/Zj2ewm7.jpg)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LordUrQuan on 2019-06-27 17:12:55
Has nobody ever heard of "Crap, I forgot to do the laundry, guess I'll have to wear this old thing?"
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2019-06-27 17:49:22
Phew, did actually someone take into account that a lot more girls are playing video games today and not only horny little nerds as back then? Her huge breast is unethical because it doesn't reflect the reality and leads to wrong expectings. The game is made for the masses and not only for the horny little nerds like some animie. That's also the reason why she wears a bit more, which is fine to me, because all the skimpy outfits do look very unpractical for combat. They found a good compromise but thier mistake is not to explain why they changed it and which thoughts they had for it. But maybe they use it as a kind of commercial.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Bynyl on 2019-06-27 20:36:43
SE wants to tone her down because SE wants to tone her down. Hasn't it always been the case that companies restrict creative freedom to ensure their bottom line is not affected? Gaming is not the only industry where outrage happens, Elvis or The Beatles come to mind, it's nothing new; if anything, censorship in gaming is less prominent now than it was in the 90's (well, maybe not in japan). Just look at Platinum Games or the stuff Destructive Creations puts out.

I personally don't really mind the redesign, I don't think that changes like these can really be telling of how they are handling the remake, we are only gonna know for sure when it finally comes out. And when it does, I think it would be fair to judge it by it's own merits and not compare it too much to the original, even if it's a remake; a lot of people who play this will not have played the 1997 game anyway.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-06-27 21:36:51
I personally don't really mind the redesign, I don't think that changes like these can really be telling of how they are handling the remake, we are only gonna know for sure when it finally comes out. And when it does, I think it would be fair to judge it by it's own merits and not compare it too much to the original, even if it's a remake; a lot of people who play this will not have played the 1997 game anyway.

Facts.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Bynyl on 2019-06-28 00:00:08
I didn't say we shouldn't compare it to the original, maybe I worded this the wrong way. My point was that we should keep in mind that the games are very different and we should be careful when deciding the criteria by which the remake would be "inferior" or otherwise to the original. For example I really don't think the battle system of the Remake should be compared to the ATB system, they are too different, it should be judged on it's own if it ends up being good or bad, because comparing it to the original it will most likely be bad even if it ends up being fun.

Being inferior to the original doesn't necessarily mean it will be bad, and if it's not bad then there's no reason not to enjoy it. We'll know when it's released of course.

It's not like I think it will be exactly great either though, some of the things said about the Remake by the devs do worry me, like how they don't seem to know how many episodes it will end up being, that screams bad preproduction to me.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-06-28 04:39:38
I don't understand the argument...

Which do you like better? FF7 or FF8?

Which do you like better? FF7 or FF7:R?

How do you answer either of those questions without comparing them?
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-28 06:35:20
You're right that most fans wanted this remake to be an update of the original.  They did not want it to be  completely re-imagined

While i dont have any particularly strong feelings regarding anything recently mentioned in this thread, this sort of caught my curiosity. I too would genuinely be interested where this idea/thought comes from because I find it odd. I mean I doubt you have any studies or large sampled randomized polls to reference here which is obviously fair enough and would be an unreasonable/silly expectation, but any explanations to actually back up this claim you present in such a strong/factual way other than feelings based/anecdotal ones stemming from exposure to what is a, in terms of distribution of opinion regarding this topic, potentially very biased echochamber (used in a relative and non derogative, but merely descriptive way here, replace with environment if it helps) that is the qhimm community (which apart from a few others is the central hub for modding the original game) or your close friends.

According to the public reception the majority of the fanbase is pretty excited about what has been shown so far of this remake. (unless everyone who likes this just "wasnt a real fan" or something silly along those lines, which i doubt you will claim as it would be easily refutable through various means of statistics). Also I am purely referencing the technical aspects regarding update vs reimagination and this is not taking into account the a bit more widespread/understandable mixed feelings towards the specific aspects of using an episodic format and shown/potential future dlc content, as your statement was clearly broader than that ( again reimagined vs update ).

And even if broad public reception woudnt be as strongly to overwhelmingly positive as it is, the term most, which is the one you used, means a strong majority and would actually require a moderate to strong negative (or at the very least mixed If you would want to go with the "they will take what they get but still wouldve preferred" narrative) reception to be valid here, so I truly feel like you have no basis whatsoever to make this claim and as far as anyone looking at this objectively it is simply untrue.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-06-28 09:32:52
.

What the "fans" wanted 10 - 15+ years ago, in my impression, was a "polished" FF7, within the same genre, style, and tone; not a re-imagined game. And, imo, it would be reasonable to assume any game would be remade within the same genre, style, and tone.

Yes, the game will probably be received well overall (imo the evidence suggests that much), but, again, how the game is marketed plays a huge role in the "fans" perception on SE's decisions (duh!), and if SE had a completely different approach to the remake I think it's fair to say that the "fans" would accept that too (as long as the direction is within reason, ie not making FF7r into a tetris clone).

And on the Tifa chest thing. The reasoning to not make her breasts jiggle is to give her a sport-bra 'cause that would be more realistic; she is a fighter after all. Yes, that is more realistic. But why give her those socks? And change the mini-skirt? Why not make her hairstyle more realistic; she is a fighter after all? The reasoning here doesn't make sense, considering other design elements. No, it's fair to assume SE's ethics department (LOL) are afraid of backlash from a certain group who will never play this game. Or perhaps they already caved in from pressure from the certain said group? Or perhaps SE's ethics department IS that group?  :o
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-28 10:11:37
Oh yeah I agree with mostly everything you mentioned regarding this topic particularly the narrative that fans would likely be just as excited if it was in fact fully turnbased etc, its just really not what he said nor how he presented it which was emphasizing that this is not what (most) "fans" want(ed) or how they want(ed) it which is simply not true (unless he can provide any evidence of the contrary which im of course open to).
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2019-06-28 10:43:35
They also probably focus for a PEGI 12 rating rather than 16. Totally forgot that point. Having Tifa with her original design and with realistic physics... well, that would probably count as sexual content and will rise it from 12 to 16.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-06-28 11:13:33
And on the Tifa chest thing. The reasoning to not make her breasts jiggle is to give her a sport-bra 'cause that would be more realistic; she is a fighter after all. Yes, that is more realistic. But why give her those socks? And change the mini-skirt? Why not make her hairstyle more realistic; she is a fighter after all? The reasoning here doesn't make sense, considering other design elements. No, it's fair to assume SE's ethics department (LOL) are afraid of backlash from a certain group who will never play this game. Or perhaps they already caved in from pressure from the certain said group? Or perhaps SE's ethics department IS that group?  :o

Yes, I agree. Her hair is the most unrealistic aspect for a woman who specializes in hand-to-hand combat. But we all know hair doesn't promote sexuality.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: shikun on 2019-06-28 14:31:30
god im tired of hearing that they changed Tifa to appease feminists. of course they bloody didnt, if they did they would cover her up completely. its only to reach a bare minimum of censorship (a badly set standard at this point) like Kaldarasha mentioned. theyre still obviously trying to keep her sexualised in some way (the stockings, miniskirt etc) and this time it makes less sense, and thats the worst part. shes a tough brawling bartender in a rough part of town, a tank top and leather skirt makes sense. now she looks like a wimpy schoolgirl/pop idol, which is a whole other nonrelated fetish. if youre going to keep her sexy, make her sexiness make sense in context.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LordUrQuan on 2019-06-28 15:21:54
Senix would have spared a lot of trouble had they not mentioned "ethics department" and instead said something else, even if it was total nonsense like "She finally realized Cloud stole her Orthopedic Underwear during the Nibelheim incident and took it back."
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: HeXy on 2019-06-28 15:44:15
Just seen the images of Tifa.. thigh-high stockings, what the devil?  In the olden days, Sega censored those in the streets of rage series.  It makes no damn sense to me to remove some "sexual" aspects only to "bolt on" new ones, changes for changes sake perhaps?
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-06-28 21:28:19
While i see where youre coming from and agree with the paragraph about monetary incentive in principle (personally i never disagreed with it in the first place), this wasnt about why they made this remake and wether or not they were doing it for the /for the love of the fans, but merely about your assumption of the majority of fans expectations and them being fulfilled or not.

Your position was/is based on the factors: Qualities of source material, why it gained so many fans in the first place, and the fact that this is a remake of said source material, which at first glance makes the stement that most fans didnt want what we seem to be getting a logical conclusion. And without data to the contrary I would have tended towards agreeing with you / coming to the same conclusion.

The problem is that you still draw your conclusions from logic even though experimental/conclusive "data" is already available which shows that this is not how it plays out/ended up playing out effectively/after all. This "data" (being the relatively overwhelmingly positive widespread reception) simply didnt confirm the hypothesis and ended up showing us where the logic didnt pan out (much like with any scientific experiment where the tests dont end up confirming the hypothesis). In this particular case it seems to be the part about what ended up remaining important to fans regardless of what drew them in originally. It seems that (much like with anything else in life actually) the majority 1: Has relatively superficial expectations and 2: has different quality standards and preferences than you assumed (and possibly myself if i had thought about this for a bit before any real data was available) 3: Values visual nostalgia above most else.

Now its late and i dont want to go in too deep but to quickly go over the points you mentioned; Considering what exactly we ended up getting and it still being received as it is we can conclude that most fans didnt put their emphasis on:
Wether it was strict to the source or heavily reimagined
About translation accuracy
Concrete content of story additions (guardians of fate sounds like a retarded addition indeed btw)

And rather seem to care for:
Relatively superficial nostalgia ("I used to love tifa" "Cloud is a badass" "I remeber first time in midgard" etcetc)
Visual Fidelity (seems to be particularly impactful to a grand majority)
Modernised mechanics (wether or not they are objectively good is another topic and irrelevant to this question) that superficially reference the source material but give off a "fresh feeling" (there is "materia", The "classic" limit breaks are back, "oh i remember this boss", "cant wait to see jenova in HD" etcetc)

Overall it seems that nostalgia combined with heavy modernisation on all fronts is what is most important to the majority of fans as opposed to accuracy towards the source material and general authenticity. Overall way more superficial factors than you assumed.

And while I am not necessarily saying that I agree the fans expectations, I will say that it seems that your expectations of the fans were set too High. "The masses are easy to please" seems to remain true here, and therefore your conclusion at the time of the statement wrong.

And this was the point of my comment regarding your statement about what "most" fans want.

Now this isnt to say that there might not still be negative outrage at some point with the introduction of new elements of any kind but at the time of this comment it seem "most" fans want(ed) this.



Now moving on from this on a lighter note: Its hard to put into words how much I hate the preorder/deluxe/whatever incentive exclusive summon dlcs. I Genuinly hope those wont be really exclusive but merely "get them earlier than when you unlock them in the game" Summons. Sadly I suspect the worst and It will probably be something along the lines of heavily timegated until free/ free upon release of episode 2 type of strawberries, or even worse paid micro dlc. This kind of stuff is borderline aggravating.

Reference shots for those who havent seen them yet:

https://23-allgamesdelta.s-ul.eu/fWUV3cAM
https://23-allgamesdelta.s-ul.eu/vbut4T9v
https://23-allgamesdelta.s-ul.eu/DbEmsqg6
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: olearyf2525 on 2019-07-01 16:48:44
Yes, I agree. Her hair is the most unrealistic aspect for a woman who specializes in hand-to-hand combat. But we all know hair doesn't promote sexuality.

I think the remake model is fine, that being said the model they just came out with for Dissidia NT for her is cuter/closer to how I imagined her. It's a bit more stylized/video gamey which is maybe why they went for the more lifelike look. Also she looks more like half-Japanese in dissidia, whereas she seems more Japanese in the remake, I remember they did say they wanted Tifa to be the more Japanese looking girl and Aeris to have a more European/westernized look.
https://imgur.com/C376EIc
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-07-01 20:25:30
Tim Roger played the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM_u3-WAfpY)

Rob Pearson played the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGo4XfRiu9E)

FYI
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-07-02 10:19:27
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM_u3-WAfpY&t=2m35s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qM_u3-WAfpY&t=2m35s)
What the hell is this guy talking about?? Real-time action is more true to the spirit of FF?? What drugs is this guy on? Didn't know they allowed you to be this ¤%&#d up at E3.

lol sorry for the insult, but most of his comments are total BS. Did SE pay him?

Haven't watched the 2nd one, dunno if it's worth...
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-07-02 10:26:17
I think the true to the spirit comment and a few others are silly indeed, but hes definitely not paid by SE hes been a huge ff7 fan for forever, theres a full playlist of him playing ff7 original and gushing about it constantly, and hes overall been fanboying alot about ff7. Hes just excited and doesnt mind/ just likes the changes i guess. Kinda evident hes just sortov fanboying in excitement in this vid too i guess.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-07-02 11:17:22
Be that as it may, its relatively entertaining when coupled with the serious reactions to it  :)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-07-03 04:01:16
and that by changing it to a modern turd, they'll also reach out to a wider fanbase.  And they're right.

Actually they are wrong, the original reached as wide as they could possibly hope for - and catering to a few feminists will result in the opposite.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-07-03 04:12:21
I mean I doubt you have any studies or large sampled randomized polls to reference here which is obviously fair enough and would be an unreasonable/silly expectation, but any explanations to actually back up this claim you present in such a strong/factual way other than feelings based/anecdotal ones stemming from exposure to what is a, in terms of distribution of opinion regarding this topic, potentially very biased echochamber (used in a relative and non derogative, but merely descriptive way here, replace with environment if it helps) that is the qhimm community (which apart from a few others is the central hub for modding the original game) or your close friends.

Look man, the original players of Final Fantasy VII dreamt for years about the original with better graphics than the original blokes. That is also why in the year 2006 people started to mod the game and add the battle-models as field-models - which was revolutionary! I do remember how excited i were back then to play FF7 PC with the battle-models in the field. It felt like an entirely new FF7 - the way we always imagined it.

It started with just the main characters and the main enemies - such as the Turks, Rufus, Sephiroth, Palmer and Hojo - and expanded onto the rest of the characters and even the NPC:s. What we all wanted, both modders and players - was to play the game again with good models in the field instead of those old original models. The battle-models were not used in the field in the original PSX-version because of the limits of the PSX - when we wanted a PS2 port the whole idea was the same game with you know PS2 models.

Same is true for the PS3 port and later PS4 - of course we are happy with whatever we get, but i am 100% certain that most players and fans of the original only wanted to play the same game again with better graphics/models - that is why the modding community here was super-big back in 06-07. I had a Youtube channel back then (it got removed because of some videos breaking copyright) where i did play the entire FF7 PC game with the Rejuvenation project models - i did have videos with over 200k viewers etc. All the videos back then were limited to 11 mins. So i had about 210 episodes with FF7 and the modified models. Nowadays the modded FF7 is old news, but back then it was basically the remake we'd wanted - the only thing better would be an official remake with even better graphics than what us fans could accomplish.

Well, FF7R is that project, but not everyone likes the changes or the new style of the characters - many would have kept to the original.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Izban on 2019-07-04 12:40:33
So far around 2500 people have played a heavily restricted version of the combat system... That's 2500 people that are serious when it comes to video games, with roughly 100 odd of them being games journalists....

And the overwhelming majority had there mind blown, if there was something game breaking or disagreeable someone would of said something by now, all the 'major' issues people have had are entirely artistic, or NPC/SJW issues, gameplay changes, character development, overall design and new content are all solid from almost all accounts, all from an excessively limited build from current versions available...

I get the feeling the watchmen of fate or whatever they are called are gonna be potentially some form of quest tracker as from what squenix is saying midgar is massive and it seems like a novel way to guide the player in an open world environment, that would make thematic sense in the updated story
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: HeXy on 2019-07-04 15:12:04
So far around 2500 people have played a heavily restricted version of the combat system... That's 2500 people that are serious when it comes to video games, with roughly 100 odd of them being games journalists....

Interested on where you got these figures from?  :)  If that many "serious" gaming people have had a played an (albeit cutdown) version with few complaints, it is indeed encouraging.. depending on the definition of a "serious" gamer type of course :)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-07-04 20:42:45
this thread is pure gold!
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-07-05 09:16:08
Nope, having none of that.

DLPB - Two wrongs don't make a right. You're almost always on the defense when you go over board. Just let it go.

-Ric- That was beyond childish and certainly not within the boundaries of The RULES (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11578.0). Grow up.

Don't let that conversation continue, or I'll shut you both down for the weekend.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-07-05 13:18:06
-Ric- That was beyond childish and certainly not within the boundaries of The RULES (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11578.0). Grow up.

I don't believe there's anything childish about defending myself from insults. That being said, I didn't throw the first insult. I'll certainly insult back anytime that one is thrown at me though. And why was my post about the thread being full of salt, not gold, removed? That one wasn't offensive, it was a joke.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Izban on 2019-07-06 07:04:25
The numbers are those that played it at E3... Which are were released.

The fact that people paid to go usually means they are more serious about games then Joe average who is ok with just waiting to see how things turn out on release day...
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-07-06 08:43:11
I think its kindov a fallacy to correlate higher levels of "general seriousness" about games (which is more than debatable in the first place as paying to go there is less indicative of their direct level of seriousness about games and more of other various personality traits. The only real conclusion you can draw from it is that they have on avg at least some as opposed to no interest in video games, but beyond that the factors for visiting E3 are very widespread. Furthermore games are too widespread in genres to use a general interest in the genre as factor) with quality/reliability of judgement.

Thats coming from someone whos fully on the pro Remake Train as is probably evident from my previous replies, I just dont think thats a particularly good point (Thats not even considering the increased chance of bias coming with the factors previously mentioned)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Izban on 2019-07-07 01:21:57
Ones willingness to spend money to find out more information about a chosen topic is generally considered as a good estimation to there interest in a given topic as are willingness to wait in line for hours, take time off work, there is a level of sacrifice taken to do these things, you don't sacrifice things for things you aren't serious about, as is working in the industry, your chosen way of earning money or having a particular job require an elevated level of seriousness in a particular topic ...but I digress.

I still maintain everything I've seen and heard points to the reimagining being entertaining enough to warrant a preorder from this particular FF7 fanboy
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Chrysalis on 2019-07-24 11:55:42
Square want to attract the new breed of players, when realising that its understandable they didnt use the materia/ATB turn based system.

I think a lost opportunity for them tho was on the PS4 version to not use any of the mods from this site in that build.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LordUrQuan on 2019-07-24 16:02:33
I think a lost opportunity for them tho was on the PS4 version to not use any of the mods from this site in that build.
Doing so would require lawyers, royalties, and all that other fun stuff.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Chrysalis on 2019-07-24 19:54:54
Like they didnt bother with using aali's mod on steam? O_o
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LordUrQuan on 2019-07-25 00:36:12
I've also gotten the impression that aali was compensated for it in some way
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-08-03 17:06:03
I've also gotten the impression that aali was compensated for it in some way

Very odd..

I agree that all the mods should have been integrated in the official remaster, nobody (or at lest not i) wanted the chibi models remastered. I'd be happy with the entire game using NinoStyles models.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: destroyedweapon on 2019-08-06 14:38:08
The Cloud model hair and face is not what I imagined at all. I know this is a very personal thing. I just don't like he has asian features and a asian fashion hair.. he should look like a natural blonde, not like a hair paint blonde and a lot of hair product. The body on the other hand looks good to me though. Why do you think such need to make him talk? Is not like Nintendo makes Link talk and they can pull it off. I guess the classic chibi model and text is like a book, where your imagination do the most part.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-08-20 08:56:14
This will make Kaldarasha happy I guess?

Short video: German dub (https://m.facebook.com/logged_out/watch/?video_id=2369461839808743&refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2FFinalFantasy%2Fvideos%2F2369461839808743%2F&_rdr)

Gamescon 20th August to 24th
Tokyo Game Show 12th September to 15th

Ready for 2nd round?
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-08-21 07:13:20
New leak Gamescon FFVII-R Gameplay (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKl-VBmkvTI&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: morningstar on 2019-08-21 14:14:13
Only on PS4 Pro ?
Is there any info that says if it'll be available on xBox ?
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2019-08-21 17:40:13
This will make Kaldarasha happy I guess?

Short video: German dub (https://m.facebook.com/logged_out/watch/?video_id=2369461839808743&refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2FFinalFantasy%2Fvideos%2F2369461839808743%2F&_rdr)

Gamescon 20th August to 24th
Tokyo Game Show 12th September to 15th

Ready for 2nd round?

Well, it just means that they didn't put as much perfection into the correct facial expressions for the voices as they did for KH3, which voices couldn't be translated because of the perfect synchronization between English voice and expression. It's a shame that they don't give 100% for remake.

Seriously, it's actually a reason for me to buy it, one day, maybe.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-08-27 07:56:46
Gamescon 2019 in detail!

Walltext coming

Spoiler: show
Instructional video:
It starts with a pre-rendered cinematic video showing infrastructure, workers and the daily life of Midgar.
A narrator is talking about the great things Shinra provides to the citizens of Midgar, leading everyone to the Promised Land with the power of Mako, which powers everything as a safe and clean energy source and is responsible for transforming Midgar into this thriving metropolis.
In the middle of that Shinra propaganda video, it glitches out and Jessie takes over.
During that cinematic video, however, we get a great look at several parts of Midgar (above the plate only, of course). Here are some notable details:
It starts with a camera pan over parts of Midgar showing a modern cylindrical building also seen in the background of the E3 2015 reveal teaser and the shot of Cloud on the Hardy Daytona introducing editions and pre-order bonuses. We also see a train passing by an industrial area and a highway with a noise shield on one side running perpendicular to it.
Another shot shows rooftops with multiple chimneys on top and another highway suspended high above with big Mako pipes running alongside of it and through the building scape. We also see a swarm of white doves flying by.
The imagery in both shots is very reminiscent of the reveal teaser from E3 2015.
Then we get a camera pan down into the streets with many different buildings resembling a neighborhood in New-York City. One of the buildings even has a silo on top like the one I described in my latest analysis video (Game Analysis #10)
The next few shots show cafés, restaurants, shops, traffic lights, lots of fire escapes, awnings, AC units, familiar cars driving by, citizens going about their day, children riding their bicycle and construction workers doing their job.
In another shot, they show mechanics swapping Mako canisters of a car (like changing batteries) and loading full ones onto a small green pickup truck with only one back wheel. We already saw similar canisters in the gameplay demonstration footage and I even mentioned those in one of my videos (Game Analysis #8).
In the last shot, we see a mechanical digger carrying a pipe segment. What the most interesting about it is that it doesn’t bear an excavator shovel at the end of its arm but instead that very same brown robot hand seen in the original game on that broken highway in the sector 6 slums.
What’s very interesting about those scenes is that everything takes place in broad daylight and it doesn’t feel dark at all, very much comparable to those skyscraper and highway shots in the reveal teaser.
I hope those scenes are part of the final game releasing next year.
After Jessie takes over, we learn the combat basics of which we already know plenty. However, several camera angles are different. The sector 1 station interior (having different ads, and the shampoo ad returns), the Guard Dog area, the room with the elevator and the area with the large ramp where Cloud uses a Potion in the gameplay demonstration from E3 2019 also received new angles.
Another new aspect is Cloud’s ability Triple Slash. It’s the one we see him perform in the E3 2019 trailer footage in the subway tunnels. He hits 3 different targets with wide slashes which may hit multiple enemies per hit if in range. It consumes only one ATB charge.
We also get to see the Sweeper step onto Cloud, pinning him to the ground, inflicting high damage and bringing Cloud into the KO status, where the screen lights up in red (like when on low HP). Barret then need to use a Phoenix Down on Cloud to have him get up again. Jessie explains that the game isn’t over until all party members are KOed.
Last point, Cloud uses an Ether which shows an orange-red effect around him to contrast the green one for Potions.
Show floor Demo:
It starts with a short scene just beyond the entrance to the reactor core hall with Jessie telling us about the objective and then seamlessly transitions to gameplay.
Of course, we can’t interact with the entrance door, but there’s a huge Shinra logo on the floor.
Maximilian Dood told us that you can talk to Jessie and she says something like “I’m flattered that you decided talking to me, but why don’t you blow ‘her’ mind instead?” (talking about the reactor). In German, her line is different: “What now? Can’t stay away from me, can you? Business before pleasure!”
There are green octagonal arrow symbols above and below the ladders to signify interaction, similar to the green arrows in the original when having the help indicators enabled by pressing select. While Cloud is on a ladder and during combat, that icon turns into a grey “unavailable” symbol.
The whole walkway layout of this area turns out to be exactly as I described in my analysis of this room. However, before going down the short staircase to the platform Jessie will be waiting on, the walkway goes a little further to a treasure chest containing a Phoenix Down. There’s also a platform below the entrance reachable through a ladder from the second optional path I mentioned in my analysis (the one higher up where you have to climb down a ladder).
Speaking of that second optional path, it’s barred off by yellow tape in this demo.
The other short optional side path close to the bottom also contains a treasure chest with an Ether inside.
Treasure chests can be opened by pressing triangle (the same visual prompt seen in the E3 2019 trailer), but only outside of battle.
Abilities like Braver can miss if you active them when the target is out of reach.
Enemies, most likely only organic ones, dissipate into green Lifestream particles upon death. This is an in-lore explanation for them disappearing to prevent clutter in combat zones. Though I think that’s only for death animations and not actually the case for anything dying in the story and the game world.
Cloud can swing his Sword outside of Battle by pressing square and destroy Shinra crates. The side plates of those remain on the floor. For how long, I do not know.
Destroyed Shinra crates may randomly drop an item, which can be picked up by merely walking over them. In this demo I’ve only seen orange-red glowing orbs called Makonites which heal 5 MP. That’s possibly the reason for their color. Other pickups might have different colors like green for HP healing orbs.
There are no other maneuvers possible in exploration mode. No combos, no dodge rolling and no blocking as well as no jumping, at all. More proof that it’s not a typical Action RPG. Exploration and combat mode are still strictly separated from each other.
Stances and special attacks mapped to triangle have been replaced by Guard (R1), at least on the UI and only for this demo. Possibly as to not overwhelm the players and, more importantly, not to reveal a feature they haven’t fully revealed yet.
While blocking, you can’t attack or dodge roll. You have to release R1 first. This doesn’t apply to commands executed in Tactical Mode.
By holding down square instead of tapping, Cloud will only perform a 3-hit combo. With tapping, 5 hits are possible. For Barret’s attack, square is meant to be held down.
Usage of an ability seems to reset combos as you always start with the first hit. The gameplay demonstration proves otherwise, so I think this is a feature deactivated in this demo.
We can see how lock on works. The targeting reticule largely remains the same but is missing those 4 horns and says “locked on” below. The camera automatically follows the target, but it’s not strictly centered on it. Also, it seems you can’t manually change targets when locked on. Soft lock-on is also purely automatic.
Security Officers have 4 attacks: Rifle, Grenade Toss, Tonfa hit and a Kick. 2 more than in the original. They also jump back after a close-range attack to get out of range.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem we’re able to throw them over the railing and let them fall into the Mako basin. Looks like there are invisible walls all around those walkways.
Monodrives are very agile and seem to have only 2 attacks: Drill Dive and the Fire spell, the same ones as in the original.
Speaking of Fire, when hit by a Fire spell, a small flame residue stays on the target as I’ve mentioned in my combat analysis, but there’s no Burn status effect.
Sentry Rays seem to have only one attack: their laser, as they do in the original game.
The responsiveness is generally very good, especially when compared to the clunkiness of FFXV and the controls feels more precise.
When opening the Commands Menu during exploration, the status elements of all characters in the party appear and fade out shortly after exiting the Commands Menu.
You can also run by holding R2 during exploration and slide down and scramble up ladders for faster traversal.
Barret follows you around but not as obnoxiously as in FFVIII. However, he doesn’t seem to be doing his own thing and always catches up to you and stops a few feet behind Cloud.
Some more interesting banter between Cloud & Barret: “Boy oh boy, that’s a long way down. I’m glad I’m not afraid of heights” – “Doesn’t matter if you fall.” – “Haha… very funny.”
In the cutscene at the pump regulator before the boss, Barret wants Cloud to place the explosive.
In the English version, Barret says “Let’s see if little Stamp bites the hand that feeds”. Stamp is an in-universe pop culture reference to a cartoon dog carrying a military helmet seen on 2 different ads, one informing about The Adventures of Stamp, Book 3, “Stamp stands up for his friends!”. In my opinion, Stamp is used to subtly distribute Shinra propaganda among the citizens of Midgar. Everyone loves an adorable mascot, right?
In German, Barret talks about the opportunity to prove to him that Cloud isn’t one of Shinra’s lap dogs anymore and doesn’t mention Stamp at all. Bummer.
Barret really doesn’t trust him yet and it shows that he only let Cloud tag along because of Tifa (and because they needed a skilled fighter and someone knowing the insides of a reactor).
While Cloud is setting up the explosive, Barret has a frightening grin on his face while rubbing his chin. There’s already a meme on this site with that picture.
We also see Cloud having another episode, a memory glitch of sorts, where he sees a lone black feather floating to the ground and disappearing into thin air before Barret rips him out of it.
Then, the scene we already know starts and the Scorpion Sentinel appears.
In the demo, Barret and Cloud both have 3 abilities and 3 spells each. Braver, Focused Thrust and Triple Slash for Cloud, Steelskin, Focused Shot and Bullet Barrage for Barret. Cloud can cast Fire, Cure and Blizzard and Barret knows Thunder, Cure and Aero. (Aero Materia? YES!)
As Maximilian Dood said, when casting Blizzard onto an enemy, the ice sticks for a short time. Not sure if it actually freezes them.
Barret’s ability Bullet Barrage sprays loads of Bullets onto the enemy, lands more hits, shoots faster and deals much more damage (x3?) and his standard attack but also consumes all remaining ATB charges. Parts of that ability can be seen in the E3 2019 trailer where he shoots at the Air Buster (and a little bit against the Sweeper in the gameplay demonstration).
If hit by the Scorpion Sentinel’s Tail Laser attack, be it when grappled or during phase 3, does deal a good amount of damage (~300 and ~470 respectively). However, the demo build has been toned down in terms of damage and difficulty. In the final game, those attacks might even be instant kills, which I would welcome.
Someone commented on my combat & gameplay analysis video (Game Analysis #9) and made me aware of a feature I haven’t noticed so far. MP regeneration. We were told that MP doesn’t regenerate automatically. However, that’s not entirely true. During the whole demo, MP regenerates by 1 around every 30 seconds (hard to say due to different actions pausing the timer). Though I think this is due to the air being filled with Mako fumes, leading to a slow MP regeneration. I think that’s an ingenious feature!

(credit to Vyzzuvazzadth/Richard)



Spoiler Picture of Midgar Life on plate (Shinra propaganda video): https://imgur.com/a/mHAjDWd
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Chrysalis on 2019-08-27 13:42:59
https://youtu.be/kJvzzivkK28?t=5m15s

This worryingly looks like FF15 battle system more than anything else :(

It shows cloud doing basic type attacks (like ff15), then the game been paused in a tactical mode to issue more advanced commands.

The targeting system mentioned by Kuraudo worryingly reminds me of star ocean 4 which was one of the most annoying targeting systems I have seen in a action rpg.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-09-08 21:55:30
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LDA2Dv7N_E New Gamescon video

New twitter https://twitter.com/finalfantasyvii/status/1170185170240135168
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-09-11 17:27:38
TGS 2019 Trailers - Reno, Don Corneo, Summons revealed
New TGS Trailer - english (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBpq_Jq7yn0)
New TGS Trailer - japanese (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZIpdx-3QCc)
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Post by: d1474796 on 2019-09-11 18:07:54
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Post by: d1474796 on 2019-09-14 09:32:32
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Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-09-14 10:32:24
TGS presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x1AGz8DwtY

16:40 - They talk about Classic Mode and demonstrate it for the Guard Scorpion battle.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-09-14 15:57:51
Looks great. Will probably be sticking to the new battle system but classic mode is gonna be great for those lazy moments. It's also great that the option exists at all for those who prefer it. I guarantee people will still find some way to cry about it though.
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Post by: d1474796 on 2019-09-14 16:08:20
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Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-09-14 16:15:14
Perhaps a nitpick from nostalgia or whatever, but calling it "classic" doesn't sound right to me. I assume they want to appeal to the turn-based fans who want something close to the traditional FF(7) experience. However, it seems more like a hybrid of action mode and "classic" mode, which again emphasizes that this is an action game at heart. Also, seeing some reaction to this news kinda confirms this.

Quote
Now can't turn-based fans complain.

Everyone gets what they want now.

Slapped along with the never ending praise the game have gotten since the 1st trailers. This game will apparently be the best thing humanity has ever created, even though the gameplay is still not fully realized and only a few people have actually tried it.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2019-09-14 16:35:13
It closest resembles Active turn-based where instead of only the enemy being the active AI, everything is active AI. Watch all the AI battle itself until your ATB is full, then choose a Command to throw into the mix. Rinse and repeat.
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Post by: d1474796 on 2019-09-14 16:38:58
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Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-09-14 16:57:34
which again emphasizes that this is an action game at heart

Which is no secret. It IS an action game. However, the fact they actually added an option to try and please people who are far more into the turn based combat system is pretty cool. Is it going to be perfect? Well I guess it remains to be seen... it appears that instead of your characters just sitting with their weapon in their hands, waiting for commands, they'll just be moving around and doing some very light damage hits. It might not be a 1:1 copy but hey! At least the option exists. I personally didn't see it coming at all so it's definitely a nice surprise.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-09-14 17:56:16
Live Show TGS2019 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x1AGz8DwtY)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Koby on 2019-09-14 17:57:49
Cloud basically looks like Lightning's identical twin here...
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kefka on 2019-09-15 08:54:13
It's like what they did in FF12 - where no-one who valued their sanity actually used the "turn based mode".  It was impossible to like it.  Having optional modes for battles seldom, if ever, works. Why?  Because common sense alone should tell you the amount of work needed to pull that off properly is insurmountable.

Actually, I did just that on my first FF12 playthrough, lol. I didn't like that new idea of my party acting automatically without me doing anything in combat, so I decided to turn off gambits entirely and try to play it the oldschool-way. But... it was just like you said, a real chore. Enemies would always go much faster than my own party. Naturally, because selecting actions manually takes time, whereas AI-controlled entities (be it enemies or characters) act instantly the moment their ATB gauge is full. As a manual player, you would always end up losing valuable seconds for command input, causing your party members to get way fewer turns than the enemy. And why? Because the game's battle system and difficulty were tailored towards the gambit system, and the developers were expecting players to make use of it. If you chose not to, the entire balance would be ruined, as a manually controlled party would always end up getting only about half (or even less) as many turns as a gambit-controlled party, with direct consequences regarding difficulty. I can't even remember how often I got pummeled to death simply due to a lack of turns. Once I replayed the game using gambits the second time through, the difference was astounding! It was almost too easy now.

The problem with multiple modes for battle systems is, like you said, that any battle system will be naturally geared towards one mode, and then the difficulty balance would be way off when chosing the other. If geared towards AI-controlled mode, then manual battling will be too hard. If geared towards manual mode, then auto-battling would make everything am breeze. At least that's what it was like in FF12. And I'm afraid in FFVII Remake it'll be similar...
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Post by: d1474796 on 2019-09-15 09:54:06
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Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: gjoerulv on 2019-09-15 13:59:29
Which is no secret. It IS an action game. However, the fact they actually added an option to try and please people who are far more into the turn based combat system is pretty cool. Is it going to be perfect? Well I guess it remains to be seen... it appears that instead of your characters just sitting with their weapon in their hands, waiting for commands, they'll just be moving around and doing some very light damage hits. It might not be a 1:1 copy but hey! At least the option exists. I personally didn't see it coming at all so it's definitely a nice surprise.

Yup, exactly, this IS an action game. Making the classic mode more "true" to the traditional FF experience would be very awkward the way they have showcased the game (I think the action game-play LOOKS awkward and stupid too, but that's another discussion)

They could also make a puzzle-game-mode option, where you defeat enemies by completing a level in tetris, while your character AI makes some small hits in the background and move around. It wouldn't be 1:1 but, hey, at least the option would exist!

I don't mean to offend you here btw, just show how I feel about the "classic" mode atm. Then again I haven't actually tried it, and know little about it. Perhaps it will be the greatest thing humanity have ever created. But how it looks right now, I'm guessing I won't be too impressed by it. The action mode will still be the main mode, and everything will be designed around that. In this regard, trying to keep turn-based fans satisfied by the classic mode, expecting them to not "complain", seems rather offensive imo.

It doesn't need to be 1:1, I think anyone would expect some difference, however, the way SE are pushing action oriented gameplay into FF makes it seem like they think that turn-based is outdated, and/or (more likely) appeal to the masses. Will we ever see a "traditional" FF in the main series ever again?

At least they haven't turned main DQ series into action games yet. I'm guessing that would be too weird and unacceptable for the Japanese audience.
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Post by: d1474796 on 2019-09-15 14:05:20
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Post by: d1474796 on 2019-09-15 14:17:16
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Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: hotdog963al on 2019-09-24 20:18:52
Official box art:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48784465518_9c1dac418f_o.png

The ugly logo basically ruins it completely.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Manakaiser on 2019-09-25 03:23:32
agreed the boxart itself is pretty nice imo but the logo doesnt fit the style at all
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-09-25 07:41:39
Equip & Materia

(https://press.na.square-enix.com/fn/09_Menu_Screen_UI_Showcasing_Materia_Groups_are_Possible_EN.jpg?shared/showfile.asp?r=2019&pk=0&a=full&i=3116&f=09%5FMenu%5FScreen%5FUI%5FShowcasing%5FMateria%5FGroups%5Fare%5FPossible%5FEN%2Ejpg)

Ice element linked to weapon

(https://press.na.square-enix.com/fn/12_Elemental_EN.jpg?shared/showfile.asp?r=2019&pk=0&a=full&i=3116&f=12%5FElemental%5FEN%2Ejpg)
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Post by: d1474796 on 2019-09-25 12:14:05
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Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kefka on 2019-09-25 15:18:36
Am I seeing right that the Elemental Materia now only gives a 2-5% damage boost when used in the weapon? In the original game the damage doubled when taking advantage of an elemental weakness, but 2-5%? Why even bother? At least the armor effect remains unchanged, so the Materia will now be restricted to defensive purposes only, too bad...
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Izban on 2019-09-26 00:29:25
It's also not very specific with the elemental damage, like is that a universal damage increase that doubles total on hitting weakness, is it 2-5% magic damage i.e casted magic damage added to every strike cause that could get rather excessive
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-09-28 14:12:10
So they've changed the sequence before fighting Air Buster... instead of getting President Shinra in the helicopter, you get a couple of drones and a giant hologram of the President and Heidegger...

Looks like the summons are playable and/or at least the summoner stays in the battle (something like FF12)

There are rumors about Don Corneo being voiced by Mark Hamill...

Also every character has his/her own frog model when in Frog status (i think Cloud's has a sword lol)

I wonder who's that new biker?


I loved what they did with the summons, as that's one of the things i always wished for as a kid/teenager - to be able to control the summons!

However, i do not like what they did to President Shinra in that scene before fighting Air Buster - it can't be too hard to just have him do what he did in the original. No need for pointless changes like that. The helicopter-escape made him more like his son Rufus who also escaped by a helicopter.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: mr_nygren on 2019-09-28 14:26:33
Official box art:
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48784465518_9c1dac418f_o.png

The ugly logo basically ruins it completely.

What ruins it is Clouds hair. It were much more bad-ass looking and pointy in the old cover/game. I'd think they should have made it more pointy.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LordUrQuan on 2019-09-28 14:28:30
What ruins it is Clouds hair. It were much more bad-ass looking and pointy in the old cover/game. I'd think they should have made it more pointy.
They couldn't.  Cloud used up all the AquaNet we had left from the 80s, and hair sculpting products since then are just plain inferior.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2019-11-03 18:02:22
FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE 特別長編CM(Special Edit)
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpJ7G9nBbtE)
Title: .
Post by: d1474796 on 2019-11-03 21:33:48
.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Fewtch on 2019-11-04 05:28:33
I still couldn't understand the story of that video... even with the 8min one...
Try the subbed version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2JXYDfXCQ&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2JXYDfXCQ&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2019-11-26 11:55:56
New stuff: Chocobo & Moogle, Weapon Upgrade, Weapon Skill, Materia Slot upgrade, etc.

https://blog.eu.playstation.com/2019/11/25/new-final-fantasy-vii-remake-screens-feature-moogles-weapon-abilities-materia-mini-games-and-more/#sf224484418

Aerith wallpaper: https://twitter.com/finalfantasyvii/status/1198979906366930944
Barret wallpaper: https://twitter.com/finalfantasyvii/status/1198981373467545600

Developers interview: https://square-enix-games.com/en_GB/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-developers
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-11-26 15:34:36
Eh, 4 months left... 😢
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Mabinog on 2019-11-28 04:01:14
Supposedly Kingdom Hearts II's battle director is working on this game. KH2 is my favorite game ever so that alone is getting me excited about the game. At this point I've accepted that the remake will deviate from the original. I just ask that it'll be fun to play, and from the gameplay I've seen it looks like I'll enjoy it.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: barrysingh102 on 2019-12-16 09:20:47
I'm very excited for this but one thing still bothers me. How many parts will there be? The first portion covers Midgar and they'll make a lot of money at launch but what if they can't or don't finish the whole story? That's my one concern
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Fewtch on 2019-12-19 04:55:59
I've given this quite a bit of thought.

Potentially, they could simply make a 2nd part thats runs till the end of the game on PS5 that embraces the open world concept without having to sacrifice too much, as the hardware and SSD will be able to do much that the PS4 cannot, but this presents a glaring issue: What about PS4 users?? I cant imagine they'll be too happy about being forced to upgrade to PS5 in order to play it. So I suppose they would have to split it into 3 parts, Midgar, Pt.2 up until the Forgotten City and Pt. 3 up until Northern Cave.

This also gives them the breathing room of being able to dedicate their full effort to all the areas that occur solidly within those 3 parts.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: Chrysalis on 2019-12-23 18:23:27
I ended up ordering the psn digital deluxe edition as its the only version that has all the digital content except a clothing patch.  But will miss out on the steelcase though.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 03.2020 - New Trailer
Post by: -Ric- on 2019-12-24 17:49:25
SD will be able to do much that the PS4 cannot, but this presents a glaring issue: What about PS4 users?? I cant imagine they'll be too happy about being forced to upgrade to PS5 in order to play it.

Eh next generation consoles are not really necessary. Final Fantasy XV already has a GIGANTIC open world. Even though the loading times definitely do suck because of the HDD, it's still more than possible.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2020-01-31 09:39:09
New trailer, big spoiler for who is picky (promise Cloud and Tifa, Jenova, Red XIII, fights, crossdressing)

They basically show us everything.

"Spoiler" Warning
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-01-31 14:13:26
New trailer, big spoiler for who is picky (promise Cloud and Tifa, Jenova, Red XIII, fights, crossdressing)

They basically show us everything.

https://www.facebook.com/350580188311771/posts/2921078964595201/




An amazing trailer that has it all it seems.

But i think i saw one censorship area: Don Corneo!

In what sense?

Yes, I did get the impression that the team of Cloud, Aerith and Tifa will challenge the Don already at the "chosing the bride" stage. He won't be going with one of them into his bedroom for some "fun"- that's my bet. At least you won't be allowed to see any sexist moves of the Don against Tifa inside that room.

Aerith looked fabulous and i'd surely enjoy using her the entire game in that hot style.

Scarlet of the Shinra looked better than i had thought she would- i thought that Square-Enix would make her less beautiful in this day and age. Well, i was wrong- she has the same hairstyle and is gorgeous. Now, i got the impression she has pants instead of a dress and pants but that was hard to see really.

She seems to be somewhat of a dominatrix towards her troops- while she didn't do that in the original she did indeed kill a few of them for aiming badly.

I hope her signature laugh and pose is still kept. I'm not happy about Tifa's leggins but otherwise Tifa looked great as well. Scarlet used black leggins in the original though so Tifa stole that.

Overall an impressive trailer and all the scenes were amazing. It's also cool that they've made the mouths follow the English words spoken in the trailer/game. That means they'll lipsync it in Japanese for Japan, and in English for everyone else- pretty good effort by the company.

Seeing as how modern Blizzard released a buggy and unstable Warcraft 3 Remake- i can at least praise Square-Enix for putting in the extra hours to make the FF7 Remake something awesome! Just a shame about the Tifa censorship.

As for extra stories they are kind of a gamble- they could be good, or they could also be bad.. It's interesting that Square-Enix is willing to take risks where Blizzard plays it safe.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2020-01-31 15:57:00
Maestro Uematsu is back
Some good shots

[EDIT: Uematsu interview (https://square-enix-games.com/en_GB/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-composers?fbclid=IwAR1A89pgm1Qqf383DmGzmD5FQUWyA9HtwdhC7sLGtC-tXS9SEiqEyxLleYw)]
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Izban on 2020-02-03 06:51:47
Red looks pretty dope

Fem cloud is like most of the fan art, kinda disturbing

Tiga ain't needed and its amazing
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-02-03 15:08:34
Nobuo Uematsu proves to be a legend yet again.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Kuraudo. on 2020-02-13 14:53:42
New information, quest, character etc. https://blog.us.playstation.com/2020/02/13/new-final-fantasy-vii-remake-screenshots-show-red-xiii-side-quests-and-more/

full opening fmv remake officially released, "spoiler" again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IrheLf0Ki0
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-02-14 18:23:08
Nobuo Uematsu proves to be a legend yet again.

If you are accepted as a legend, you don't have to prove it again? :P But yaeh, listened to the soundtrack. Good stuff!
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-02-17 18:08:02
If you are accepted as a legend, you don't have to prove it again? :P But yaeh, listened to the soundtrack. Good stuff!

Oh absolutely, he didn't have to at all. But he did. The man is awesome.

52 days, 10 hours and 5 minutes left....
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: burbigo on 2020-02-19 16:46:34
He is a legend and he's still proving it  8)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: KaidenJames on 2020-03-02 09:06:25
The demo is out now. https://twitter.com/finalfantasyvii/status/1234389422608723969
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-02 14:15:23
Just finished the demo. Combat is VERY fun. An auto lock-on would be welcome when switching to Barret though. Graphics are great obviously (at least on the Pro model) and there weren't any intrusive loading screens.

There's a few tweaks to the story. Not changes necessarily. There's a big moment after the first boss that could've definitely taken place in the original as well but you never hear about it.

Overall... Day one purchase.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: KaidenJames on 2020-03-02 17:47:50
I played through once last night. I loved it. Combat is a ton of fun, even if I sucked at first lol. Some of the back and forth banter got repetitive, but I expect stuff like that. Said banter is done well though. Graphics are sexy and the game runs well. Some dips in FPS every so often, again to be expected. I have an SSD in my Pro, so loading was nice and fast. I can't wait to get home and play more!

P.S. I've seen the new opening a few times now, but watching it in game on my PS4 gave me some feels!
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-02 18:20:10
but watching it in game on my PS4 gave me some feels!

Right!? It's an epic feeling when the logo pops up and the music kicks in.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: KaidenJames on 2020-03-02 18:24:07
Right!? It's an epic feeling when the logo pops up and the music kicks in.

That's my favorite part. That and the transition from new opening to the old one is class.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: olearyf2525 on 2020-03-03 06:40:27
Beat it earlier today, the opening is amazing, I'm on the pro with an SSD, didn't even see any loading. The graphics are really good, the combat is fun on normal and has room for depth, sadly there is no hard mode so once you actually master combat I can see the game being very easy on a 2nd playthrough. Still not sure how I feel about them turning Midgar into a 40 hour game from a 6 hour story though. IMO they should have expanded Midgar from 6 hours to maybe 10 hours (expand the streets/scenes/dialogue/maybe the new character Roche) and ended the first part later on in the first disc maybe at the end of the Cargo ship, idk, I feel like Midgar will probably have a lot of fetch quests and stuff that doesn't really fit, but I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ on 2020-03-04 01:30:14
I wanted to comment that I did see some posters that pointed to some acknowledgement of the prior compilation as well as something Heidegger says that also seems to verify some compilation stuff is going to remain canon in the remake
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-04 02:59:48
The Guard Scorpion actually kicked my ass on Normal mode. This game doesn't seem to be pulling any punches with the difficulty, which is pretty exciting.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-03-05 17:04:36
PRE-EDIT: Wow this turned out to be a wall of text, that was not my intention xP. Sorry in advance, I don't wanna ruin the experience for anyone...
Take all this with a grain of salt. Haven't tried the demo myself.

Saw a few playthroughs on YT out of curiosity. Not gonna lie, I cringed a lot. Not only from the game; the fanboy levels are through the roof.

FF7R: Hack and slash - style over substance edition.

No, seriously, it LOOKS like a hack and slash game with some tweaks (probably feels different if you play yourself, I dunno...). Nothing wrong with hack and slash games, but isn't this supposed to feign realism?
Yes, I know that you have to have some suspension of disbelief in a fantasy setting, and that the action can't be 1-to-1 realistic in certain styles of games to make it fun/interesting or whatever, but the slicing and dicing here is WAY over the top for a realistic setting. IF you are supposed to get this realism impression from the overall design I have no idea what they were thinking. To me it just looks dumb, and I would rather prefer it be 110% balls-to-the-walls DBZ. You know, if the game didn't take itself too seriously. If you're trying to look cool like this why not go all out?
(lol who are we kidding, we know why, sales, mainstream, all that. The term "realism" here is a term used to make it seem more appealing to the mainstream.)
Also, you need Barret to shot things up on ledges, but why, Cloud can jump like a ¤/¤%#&8.

Classic mode is NOT the same as original FF7. Not that anyone expected that, but the devs pointed out that this mode was for those who would prefer the original gameplay. It's basically a super easy mod as far as I can tell.

Spoiler: show
The banter from Biggs, Wedge and Jessie was well made if you ignore the setting. Jessie seems like a total player. But the attitude and tone they create is off from what their mission is.
They are blowing up a reactor, killing people, doing eco-terrorism, but they act like sunday morning cartoon characters about it.
I mean, the comments they give to Cloud when they leave the guards to him, the nonchalant attitude, the carefree banter, etc.
Example: First they are hiding from the guards, and when the guards notice Cloud they sneak behind the guards to move on. Only... They don't sneak. Before leaving they make sure to chant: "You got this Cloud!". It's so $%&£ dang stupid, and disregards almost the entire situation. Why even hide in the 1st place?
I dunno, maybe they smoked some greens before they started the mission. That could explain their behavior. They do resemble hippies at some level. I mean, their behavior CAN be explained, but I can hardly imagine there will be some super awesome logical explanation.

Barret acts like a brat sometimes, which seems out of character to me (or perhaps that's what they aim for?). For example when they enter the reactor, he goes on a tantrum because Cloud doesn't answer him right away. I know he doesn't trust Cloud, but, geez, his patience is in negative space at that scene.
Also, the battle banter really made me cringe for the most part. This has plagued soooo many games, please make it stop!


Cringe reactions from the top of my head:
"Omg, there is a map!!??!!?"
"Omg, you interact with stuff??!!?!?!"
"Omg, there can be stuff in the way that prevent bullets from hitting me??!?11?!1!?"
After killing 3 enemies: "Omg this is the best battle system ever!!!!11!!1"
(yes, there are people who mash square on the controller, kills the 1st couple of enemies, and all of a sudden it's the best battle-system ever.)
"This is a deeper look at a story we thought we knew, with new scenes."
...lol

Things that have been normal in games for over 40 years is now super impressive for some reason *cough*fanboying*cough*.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-05 23:37:03
Nomura needs to be assassinated.

Lmao.

Do it, tough guy.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ on 2020-03-06 00:13:41
I was going to write a rebuttal to all of that, but instead I'll just ask why you can't like it? 

Like, is it nostalgia? Or something deeper?

I get not liking it, that's cool, but there's such anger there.   It comes off like Trump and his cries of fake news.  "The Russians didn't interfere!!"  Except, yes, they clearly did.

I know a lot of people expected this to be shit, myself included.  The problem is, it actually appears to be quite good.  Maybe not better (due to my own nostalgia goggles), but still surprisingly good.

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-06 00:26:15
I kinda have to completely disagree both gjoerulv and dlpb having played it's really kind of deceptive how strategic it is, it's also quite a bit harder then the footage appears.

The banter is definitely a bit ham fisted, but at the same time it makes alot of sense in the bombing run at least, from what I've played it didn't really feel out of place.

Combat does not equal press square to win, there was no I frames that I was able to find to exploit and both dodging and defending are actually needed or your gonna wipe, I did find they definitely through way more potions at you and if your not careful the number you get by the GS aren't gonna last you the fight. You can get stunned out of a cast or ability thus wiping the ATB charge which I found as a good thing some people might not like it. Enemy selection in the demo is pretty limited, however there are assorted regular enemies that will wrek your day if you don't pay attention.

I was rather sceptical before I played, even though I pre-ordered and I am legit convinced it's a goty candidate after the demo, it's glorious that a Kotaku editor took to Twitter complaining that it was to hard
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-06 00:52:15
The demo has 11087 reviews in the US PSN Store and a 5 star rating, 9307 reviews in the EU PSN Store and again, a 5 star rating.

It's not "reviewer hype". People are genuinely enjoying it.

Maybe not better (due to my own nostalgia goggles), but still surprisingly good.

But look, does it HAVE to be better? It's an entirely different game. Obviously the story is (mostly) the same but it's an entirely new game-play experience, entirely new visuals, entirely new voice acting. To me, it won't be better or worse, it will be different. And no matter how much I love the remake, I'm 100% sure I will end up replaying the original multiple times after it.
The original is going nowhere.

Like, is it nostalgia? Or something deeper?

Both.

I mean, one person shared his opinion of the game and listed his criticisms, which is perfectly ok and although I don't agree, I see nothing wrong with it. The other called for the assassination of another human being so yeah... There's definitely some deep issues there. lol.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-06 01:43:24
Also, I am clearly not being literal when saying he should be assassinated.  Only a total idiot trying to point score like a toddler or Democrat would think so, Ric.

That's hysterical considering you've posted the exact same calls for people's assassination in the past (regarding a different person), got called out by me (and others) and we both ended up having our posts deleted and warnings issued. At least own it. You would still look pathetic, but less so.

Now go take your medication and don't forget to apply the acne cream.

Aw crap. I'ma get that Warned status again lol.

Oh well.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-06 01:51:22
There is a f-ton of fanboying going on for it, and alot of it is unwarranted like the fanboying over the map and the interactivity of the scenery.

But the combat is genuinely deserving of the praise it's getting to the point I would suggest moving forward some variation of it should be in every coming action RPG until some revolutionary upgrade is thought up.

There are definitely some changes to the story that depending on how it comes together as a whole and what they do with the subthreads could be amazing or craptacular is still in the wind.

All told the gameplay is the main reason I'm buying it cause I know the story backwards and they really can't botch it that bad to tank just how amazing it feels to play, even though the gameplay is rather mentally exhausting, rewarding when you begin to figure it out.

I haven't tried it on classic mode yet but I'm unlikely to play full that way cause of just how fun the regular is
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: olearyf2525 on 2020-03-06 08:13:46
FF7 Remake's gameplay is fantastic on normal mode. Easy mode is a joke akin to ffXIII and Classic mode is basically Easy mode and also a joke. My only concern was that once you mastered the new combat and enemy weaknesses even normal mode would become too easy on a second play through. That's not the case now that hard mode has been revealed, once you unlock more than just cloud and can start using barret in the demo and take a look at the previews of the uprade/materia systems combat is extremely deep, it's a mix of turn based, action, and MMO boss fight mechanics but getting rid of the worst aspects of each and embracing the best. I can't take anyone seriously who says the combat sucks because they are either being contrarian hipsters, or have some sort of agenda, this is the most polished combat I've seen from Square Enix since FFX International like 18 years ago. If you want to complain about the story or the possibly looming fetch quests to pad out the game, once the game is out and you've play it and they are actually there that's fine, but as of right now from everything everyone has played and everything we've been shown/leaked the gameplay is good on normal mode.

So why is the gameplay good? Because there is so much to do and keep track of.
1)Stances/Parries/Charge/ Triangle Mechanic - Keeps you engaged in the gameplay, now you have a reason to pay close attention to the move an enemy is about to do to you so that you can perform clouds operator transition parries. I mean sure some of the initial enemies in the tutorial section you can just spam square like a retard but outside of the first chapter's basic security guards that serve as the tutorial section that's the only place it's going to work.
2)Dodge/Movement -Aerith, Barret, and Cloud in Punisher mode  all have extremely limited movement while every boss and mini-boss we've seen so far have amazing movement, this forces you to utilize the i-frames of your dodge or the movement of your dodge or suck up damage like a retard and waste half your ATB charges on potions.
3) Boss Mechanics/Weaknesses/Guard - You have to figure out a bosses' weaknesses and weakpoints and MMO STYLE attack patterns/AOES, you can even interrupt their next attack with good timing and weakness exploitation. Or you can sit in their attacks and hope you looted twenty potions or 10 ether and use them all on the first boss fight. This also encourages you to use guard to save on MP/ITEMS
4)Limit breaks are extremely rare/limited- No more hyper cheesing/fury cheesing/back row cheesing/ any cheesing that we've seen so far, at least in what we've been shown. Some of that power was moved to Summons which are essentially a guest character and closer to 10's system which is how I preferred them.
5)Adaptive difficulty- You can now make some bosses harder on yourself, so far this has only been shown for the Airbuster but the concept is amazing and I'd be surprised if he was the only boss to incorporate this mechanic in the game. You make the game as hard as you want it, and hard in the way you want it.
6) With all this going on, having to pay attention to boss timings/particle effects/tells the ATB slow down time is actually really useful to let you gather your thoughts and plan your next few moves, you can also double que moves on each party member and mass execute 6 actions at once. Meaning you can stagger the boss and if you prepared for it on each character you have a burst window of about 5-10 seconds to dump all your ATB.
7)Jobs/Roles - Always preferred the older FF's and Tactics in terms of their role/jobs and it looks like FF7 is moving a step in the right direction. Barret has tank abilities, but he doesn't HAVE to tank. Aerith is a red mage that has superior doublecast magic abilities but you CAN just auto with her. Tifa has monk abilities, they are just slightly more job oriented/defined. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw some similar aspects to New Threat further along the game, I wonder if the gameplay guy researched it or heard about it all.
8) Good control scheme/seamless transitions to switch between characters and if you don't want to utilize the slowdown of the ATB you can quick bar abilities and play it more like kingdom hearts/more actiony games.

I could probably go on even further, but the combat looks and plays amazing, will it get stale after 50 hours? I don't know it depends on whether every new encounter throws new concepts/makes you think or re-think/ or new abilities change up your strategies, we'll see.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-03-06 12:05:14
Thanks for the read.  I'm afraid you and I are in a minority overall where applying logic to storytelling is concerned and, you know, 'Strifing' for better.  Instead, people are happy if visuals look good and their understanding for storytelling is as low as dinosaur bones.  I've made the point numerous times across forums and on IMDB that the reason AC failed with a general audience is because the script was crap and no-one can care about characters that defy logic and reason every second.  And this sad, pathetic little remake ticks the same boxes.  The dialogue is shite.  The script reads and sounds like it's been created by a Mom's basement dweller.  The eye candy is all over the place.  Logic is out of the window there too.  The pacing looks crap too because battles last way too long.  There's no tactics to be had.

And the extra visuals are like Lucas dumping dinosaurs onto the screen because he could - not because it's good.  Same here.  More visuals just takes away from what made FF7 so good.  And, the main point, as you say, is that believability is zero. 

The redemption arc for Barrett - all gone.  The darker tones and more adult themes?  Cartoon teeny bopping.

It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Shakespeare was how long ago?  And the phrase applies to this dreck more each passing second.

And guess what?  I knew all this years before the remake was even released.  I knew if they ever did make a remake, this is what they'd do.  And I said so.  Nomura needs to be assassinated.

I liked Advent Children simply because it were FF7- but i hated the new style and wanted them to look like in the first few scenes (original looks) the entire movie. I do also agree that the new style of fighting introduced by Advent Children looked good in the movie, and worked well in FF Dissidia/Duodecim (a fun fighter and i have all the titles) but doesn't work well in a realistic sense. It doesn't make sense for Cloud to be able to fly and i think he should be grounded, as should the others- in the original game he couldn't jump as high as Goku, or fly like Superman. Frankly the movie made the fights less grounded and i didn't really like that when implemented into a real FF game. Frankly if you don't have wings (like Sephiroth) you shouldn't be able to fly. That's what i like in the classic FF7 that they run forward and doesn't fly forward- much more realistic.

"The redemption arc for Barrett - all gone." Explain?

I am mostly worried about two things, because unlike you i think the Remake is looking awesome in it's own way, as it's own stand-alone game (but it isn't the remake of the classic that people might have wanted with simply updated graphics) - the things i'm worried about?

1. Multiple games. I'm worried they will lack the same quality, that they will take forever to release and that gameplay will change from one of the games to the other. I'd like the games to be the same with just new story. Not a FFX2 styled different game as a sequel. It should be FF7R Part 2. Not a completely different game, and i'm worried it will be totally different from the first game.

2. I'm worried that Square-Enix will remove any dark scenes- Dyne, Sephiroth killing people in the Shinra HQ and in Kalm, blood on the floor in the Shinra HQ, dead bodies of slain Shinra/prisoner bodies, blood on the walls of the Shinra HQ etc.

I don't want a child-friendly game. Remember that we were all kids when we played the original. The age restrictions on the original were 15 years in Sweden- i did play it as a six year old. So no need to censor the blood, death etc- it would make it worse than the original.

A warning sign was the Game Over screen.. I watched someone get beaten by the Sentinel Scorpion during the boss fight.. Neither Barret nor Cloud fell unconscious.. Instead they were on their knee's when the game over happened. Not only that- but a text clearly said they fell unconscious..

In the old classic you thought that they died.. Because they all would lay down like dead characters, and there were no text saying anything about them falling unconscious. I really dislike this censorship and childification. I could handle the gore of the original as a six year old. Modern six year olds can handle the gore of the new version- if it's kept at all..

I don't need the characters to stand up when they have 0 health.. That just screams censorship to me.. They should lay down, even when someone is fainted as in not dead they would still lay down on the ground- an unconscious person would still lay down but they censored that to them standing on one knee. That's a minus for me and also makes me worried about all the darker scenes that i need in the Remake- or it will get one point less in my review for each deleted scene of that nature.

Final Fantasy VII should be dark.. People should die in it visibly. If not then it's worse than the original.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-03-06 23:43:08
I was going to write a rebuttal to all of that, but instead I'll just ask why you can't like it? 


Like, is it nostalgia? Or something deeper?

A repeat in TL;DR version:
1. The tone of the setting does not match how the characters act overall. 2. The design mentality is in conflict with the actual design.
The technological evolution in gaming have been great, why does storytelling need to regress to the point which, in part, it has to rely on trivial musings? (hint: welp, again, we know why)

I get not liking it, that's cool, but there's such anger there.   It comes off like Trump and his cries of fake news.  "The Russians didn't interfere!!"  Except, yes, they clearly did.

I know a lot of people expected this to be strawberries, myself included.  The problem is, it actually appears to be quite good.  Maybe not better (due to my own nostalgia goggles), but still surprisingly good.

Dude, I'm not angry. If anything, I tried to be rather comical in my criticism, which I guess can be intrepeted as angry ranting (hard to convey your emotional state by text only).
I'm disappointed by the direction SE is headed and fascinated by the fanboyism, yes :). Trump....??
On what I expected: If I'm not mistaken, I believe I mentioned somewhere that I expected the gameplay to be ok but that the story would annoy me. At least that's how I remember it, but me and my former self don't always agree. :P

1-8

All these things are doable, and have been done, in many battle systems, including turn based.

And, not a response to anyone in particular (lol these walls of text should be documented for future archeologists) (I'm a bit drunk so I feel I have to write more):
Back when, Square had a lot of failed attempts to get FF popular in the west. Making the FFs easier was a way of making them more appealing. That combined with the 3D of FF7 definitely helped getting FF to the mainstream.
And this is my main criticism of most of the "old" FFs. They are too fucking easy. Why do I need those ultimate weapons? Glamour?
Today, gaming is a much bigger part of the culture. To the point where calling gamers "casuals" can be considered an insult. The tables have turned. Nerds rule! Learn how to code goddammit!. Marked research teams knows this, and is THE MAIN reason why AAA companies strives to make their games more gamer friendly (harder). They do this in order to please the "true" gamers, or whatever lall (yes there are other reasons, devs aren't souless zombies).
Is this "bad"? Not self-evedently at least. Imo it's a good thing gaming has been generally accepted as a genuine form of entertainment. But at the same time it bears the mainstream baggage of, for example, stupid batle banter. And out of character behaviour. Like you you see in FF7R demo.

1. Multiple games. I'm worried they will lack the same quality, that they will take forever to release and that gameplay will change from one of the games to the other. I'd like the games to be the same with just new story.

Would it really be that bad if they changed the genre of the game. I mean, come on, just like it! (sorry couldn't resist, nothing against you).

Still not angry. If FF7R will be the best game to ever grace God's green earth, I will be a happy man. :)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ on 2020-03-07 01:11:16
Ugh, fine, the kids are down so I'll do it "Jari" style and address everything as best I can, including gjorulv's concerns.   Please keep in mind that a lot of this is going to be playing devil's advocate and using some extremes, but it's mostly to make a point

No, seriously, it LOOKS like a hack and slash game with some tweaks (probably feels different if you play yourself, I dunno...). Nothing wrong with hack and slash games, but isn't this supposed to feign realism?
If it was supposed to be realistic, you would get an uncanny valley vibe.  Nothing in the demo actually appears to be going for realism.  Further from cartoony graphics? Yes.  All out realism? No

Yes, I know that you have to have some suspension of disbelief in a fantasy setting, and that the action can't be 1-to-1 realistic in certain styles of games to make it fun/interesting or whatever, but the slicing and dicing here is WAY over the top for a realistic setting. IF you are supposed to get this realism impression from the overall design I have no idea what they were thinking. To me it just looks dumb, and I would rather prefer it be 110% balls-to-the-walls DBZ. You know, if the game didn't take itself too seriously. If you're trying to look cool like this why not go all out?
If you watch videos of people doing multiple play throughs, or play it a few times yourself, you'll notice it's not nearly as hack and slash as it appears. Once people understand the stagger mechanic and how to best use their ATB bar, the enemy fights are extremely quick.  Think of it like the first time you played FF7, you probably died to the guard scorpion.  The next time you beat it but it took quite a while with a lot of healing.  Playing it now you'd breeze through no problem (hence a harcore mod is needed).  It's the same concept.  Whether or not it will hold up throughout the whole game, who knows, but so far it works well.

Also, you need Barret to shot things up on ledges, but why, Cloud can jump like a ¤/¤%#&8.
I've only played the demo, but have seen a few other videos of later chapters where Cloud is attacking in the air, so his movement isn't completely ground based.  It's also likely done to encourage players to learn how to switch between characters to use their unique abilities.  And honestly, how many times did you actually NEED Barret's long range? Like, 2 fights? 3?

Classic mode is NOT the same as original FF7. Not that anyone expected that, but the devs pointed out that this mode was for those who would prefer the original gameplay. It's basically a super easy mod as far as I can tell.
I haven't played classic mode, but my understanding is you're right.  I think it's a story mode.  Normal seems about perfect, but I really hope there's a hard mode for seasoned players to really dig into the battle mechanics.  Also, isn't the original game super easy mode it's also pretty much "press X to win"

The banter from Biggs, Wedge and Jessie was well made if you ignore the setting. Jessie seems like a total player. But the attitude and tone they create is off from what their mission is.
They are blowing up a reactor, killing people, doing eco-terrorism, but they act like sunday morning cartoon characters about it.
I mean, the comments they give to Cloud when they leave the guards to him, the nonchalant attitude, the carefree banter, etc.
Having been in the military and done my share of deployments, I can vouch that this is how military personnel act.  Sure it's serious when it needs to be (like when escaping an exploding reactor) but taking care of the mundane enemies and situations is akin to working a 9-5. No one's really stressed or worried, you're just doing your job.

Example: First they are hiding from the guards, and when the guards notice Cloud they sneak behind the guards to move on. Only... They don't sneak. Before leaving they make sure to chant: "You got this Cloud!". It's so $%&£ dang stupid, and disregards almost the entire situation. Why even hide in the 1st place? I dunno, maybe they smoked some greens before they started the mission. That could explain their behavior. They do resemble hippies at some level. I mean, their behavior CAN be explained, but I can hardly imagine there will be some super awesome logical explanation.
I would agree with you if this were a Tom Clancy game.  The original had similar banter while still fighting enemies.  They're just use it here to show that Cloud was actually hired to do the fighting.  You actually see them avoiding battle and saying "All yours, buddy" and whatever to help reinforce that his job there is strictly to defend them as they infiltrate the reactor.  Also, from a military perspective, if you see someone who is an active threat, versus someone not immediately posing a threat to you, you attack the threat, not the guy running away.  From a strategic level, sure, don't let them blow up the reactor!! From a personal level of not wanting to die, you attack the threat

Barret acts like a brat sometimes, which seems out of character to me (or perhaps that's what they aim for?). For example when they enter the reactor, he goes on a tantrum because Cloud doesn't answer him right away. I know he doesn't trust Cloud, but, geez, his patience is in negative space at that scene.
Also, the battle banter really made me cringe for the most part. This has plagued soooo many games, please make it stop![/spoiler]
Some of the banter is good and does help with character development.  I wouldn't say it's completely necessary, but it also doesn't do any harm (so far as the demo is concerned)Is Barret over the top?  Yes.  Was he over the top in the original? Yes, getting all riled up and beating his chest and yelling expletives and trying to intimidate Cloud so everyone knew he was the leader.   His remake dialogue feels right in line with how it was 20 years ago(Whether or not that was his intended personality in the original is irrelevant since he was translated to be over the top and that's who his character became)

Cringe reactions from the top of my head:
"Omg, there is a map!!??!!?"
"Omg, you interact with stuff??!!?!?!"
"Omg, there can be stuff in the way that prevent bullets from hitting me??!?11?!1!?"
After killing 3 enemies: "Omg this is the best battle system ever!!!!11!!1"
(yes, there are people who mash square on the controller, kills the 1st couple of enemies, and all of a sudden it's the best battle-system ever.)
"This is a deeper look at a story we thought we knew, with new scenes."
...lol
Things that have been normal in games for over 40 years is now super impressive for some reason *cough*fanboying*cough*.
Surely these are people appealing to their base of subscribers.  I would suggest finding different youtube personalities to follow that review games a way you might better respond to.  I personally also don't like that crap and the fake crying and the other nonsense they do to try and get subscribers.   I recently discovered Maximillian Dood (sp?) and really appreciate his take on things.


A repeat in TL;DR version:
1. The tone of the setting does not match how the characters act overall. 2. The design mentality is in conflict with the actual design.
The technological evolution in gaming have been great, why does storytelling need to regress to the point which, in part, it has to rely on trivial musings? (hint: welp, again, we know why)
1. Pretty sure I address this higher up.  2. You'll have to be more specific on what the conflict is.  I genuinely don't know, nor what the regress in storytelling you're referring to.

Dude, I'm not angry. If anything, I tried to be rather comical in my criticism, which I guess can be intrepeted as angry ranting (hard to convey your emotional state by text only).
I'm disappointed by the direction SE is headed and fascinated by the fanboyism, yes :). Trump....??
On what I expected: If I'm not mistaken, I believe I mentioned somewhere that I expected the gameplay to be ok but that the story would annoy me. At least that's how I remember it, but me and my former self don't always agree. :P
I didn't take you as angry at all.  DLPB though.... :P    What direction are they headed?  I will happily admit I think it's been pretty bad since IX.  I kinda barely liked X, but couldn't get into 12 or 13, and probably won't even try 15.  But it appears they've actually put in effort here.  Like they actually want to make a good game that respects the original and isn't just a cash grab.  I'm sure it's a cash grab for SONY, but I think the directors and employees genuinely want this to be great.

And, not a response to anyone in particular (lol these walls of text should be documented for future archeologists) (I'm a bit drunk so I feel I have to write more):
Back when, Square had a lot of failed attempts to get FF popular in the west. Making the FFs easier was a way of making them more appealing. That combined with the 3D of FF7 definitely helped getting FF to the mainstream.
And this is my main criticism of most of the "old" FFs. They are too fucking easy. Why do I need those ultimate weapons? Glamour?
Today, gaming is a much bigger part of the culture. To the point where calling gamers "casuals" can be considered an insult. The tables have turned. Nerds rule! Learn how to code goddammit!. Marked research teams knows this, and is THE MAIN reason why AAA companies strives to make their games more gamer friendly (harder). They do this in order to please the "true" gamers, or whatever lall (yes there are other reasons, devs aren't souless zombies).
Is this "bad"? Not self-evedently at least. Imo it's a good thing gaming has been generally accepted as a genuine form of entertainment. But at the same time it bears the mainstream baggage of, for example, stupid batle banter. And out of character behaviour. Like you you see in FF7R demo.
Again, maybe the battle banter isn't 100% necessary, but so far it does help to establish the characters.  And it's also currently in fashion.  If you remember, turn based games also used to be in fashion.  Maybe that part won't age well.  But neither did a character saying "Press X to climb the ladder"

Would it really be that bad if they changed the genre of the game. I mean, come on, just like it! (sorry couldn't resist, nothing against you).
Still not angry. If FF7R will be the best game to ever grace God's green earth, I will be a happy man. :)
Could it win game of the year? Potentially.  Will it be the mega hit the original was? No.   It's not pioneering any new technologies.  It's not introducing anyone to anything they haven't seen before.  But that also doesn't mean it won't be good
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ on 2020-03-07 01:31:52
Thanks for the read.  I'm afraid you and I are in a minority overall where applying logic to storytelling is concerned and, you know, 'Strifing' for better.  Instead, people are happy if visuals look good and their understanding for storytelling is as low as dinosaur bones.
  Just because a game has good visuals doesn't mean the storytelling has to be bad?

I've made the point numerous times across forums and on IMDB that the reason AC failed with a general audience is because the script was crap and no-one can care about characters that defy logic and reason every second.
Yep.  Advent Children is quite clearly a cash grab, or uninspired at best.

And this sad, pathetic little remake ticks the same boxes.  The dialogue is shite.  The script reads and sounds like it's been created by a Mom's basement dweller.  The eye candy is all over the place.  Logic is out of the window there too.  The pacing looks crap too because battles last way too long.  There's no tactics to be had.
I actually found the dialogue to be quite good so far.  Amazing? Groundbreaking? Heartstopping? No.  But neither is the original.  I find myself as interested to see what the new elements of the story are in the same vein that I wanted to know the story of the original. 

And the extra visuals are like Lucas dumping dinosaurs onto the screen because he could - not because it's good.  Same here.  More visuals just takes away from what made FF7 so good.  And, the main point, as you say, is that believability is zero. 
I mean, I'm sure if they thought a demake would sell they would make it.  I still don't understand why good visuals = bad.  Pretty sure someone made an NES style FF7, that may appeal to you more I guess?  Or maybe someone should make it for the Atari 2600?  Then the story would really be something!

The redemption arc for Barrett - all gone.  The darker tones and more adult themes?  Cartoon teeny bopping.
You'll have to refresh my memory on his redemption arc.  I don't remember him ever being a bad guy.   As for adult themes, the demo seems to be tackling the fact that a giant corporation has its own military, is actively destroying the planet, and is willing to kill thousands of civilians to keep good PR.  Seems pretty adult.

And guess what?  I knew all this years before the remake was even released.  I knew if they ever did make a remake, this is what they'd do.  And I said so.  Nomura needs to be assassinated.
So, you knew if they ever made a remake it would be a remake?  You knew they would release it on the current generation of consoles? Again, I'm lost.  Sure if they said this was a remaster and did this, yeah, yeah this is definitely more than a remaster.


I could turn that around and ask you why you like it?
Sure thing.  Well, mainly because the graphics are super pretty!
Lol.  It's a good story, the voice acting is good, the dialogue is well written, the characters are true to their original portrayal, the battle mechanics are good (it's not just press X to win {cough original FF7 cough cough})


It's the same difference except I'm not seeing any arguments addressing the points gjoerulv and I have made.  Why is it wrong to not like something?  On nostalgia - I'd say the only reason this game will do so well is solely based on it.  The majority of the people who are buying this without a second thought are the people who've succumbed to nostalgia - not the other way around.
It's totally fine not to like something.  But you seem to want to not like it.  Are you worried it will take away from your work on the reunion mod?  Surely it will bring more people interested in playing the original.  Like, if you read Game of Thrones, but don't like the show.  OK, cool.  So, only read the books then.  You don't have to watch.   You come off as hating it because you think people expect you to hate it.  But let me be the first to tell you... it's ok to be yourself.  You don't have to be who everyone expects you to be.  It's not healthy.


The main reason for disliking this is because it craps all over what made the original so good and it's such a total waste of effort and resources when we could have had a faithful remake at half the time and cost.
What does a faithful remake look like?  Seriously.  What exactly needs to be changed to make this "good" instead of the worst abomination known to man? 
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-03-07 04:30:43
I'm in the military too and I'm yet to have a female player lay it on me.

Edit: currently responding lol
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-07 05:02:38
But are you pretty like cloud
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Manakaiser on 2020-03-07 08:04:02
i like it so far :)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: olearyf2525 on 2020-03-07 10:39:51
The dialogue banter is mostly really good as obesebear pointed out. I did notice two awkward/possibly weirdly translated lines? Right before the Guard Scorpion comes out Barret says something like "you double-crossing", is he referring to Cloud? Just sounded weird a bit. Oh and then the Honeybee Inn trailer where the new Muki guy goes on a P.C explanation of gender essentially "gender is a social construct" that I watched the original translated trailer for, they definitely took some Sony America P.C interpretation of those lines but the occasional psychotic ideations of a SJW don't bother me as long as it's a line here or there and not them wrecking the whole game. Honestly whenever censorship or alteration of the original work occurs the best thing to do is to report it to the Japan studio, often times they will be told "this will help the game sell in America" or they aren't even notified, if they get a large influx of upset customers mailing them unlike in the west Japan still responds to consumer demand. It's the reason why Tifa still has big boobs despite Sony America's "ethics" AKA SJW psycho department wanting to censor them even further.

One of the lines that really exemplified how good the writing was for me, and also pointed out by Maximilian Dood was when Barret asks Cloud his age and Cloud responds with his rank and Barret sort of responds WTF you weirdo I was asking your age but you are basically a 1 year old. Or when Jessie witnesses Cloud jump through the debris and he gives her that little awkward smile when she calls him cool. They perfectly captured the Cloud that is up his own ass and wanting to seem cool, the awkward and absent minded cloud the one who mentioned to us in the lifestream how he just wanted to impress everyone, to be cool like Sephiroth. Or how about when Barret asks him about Mako storage and the layout of the reactor and cloud's mind tenses up and he rationalizes it to himself that it's a different reactor and different layout and that's why he's never seen it before.

I'm pretty sure DLPB hasn't been following this game much at all and has been deadset on hating it from the beginning, likely because he sees it as some sort of invalidation or alteration of much of his own work.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2020-03-07 12:47:27
That Double Crossing line is because Barret maybe thinks Cloud might have just betrayed him by not setting the bomb and could be getting ambushed.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-07 14:05:34
I'm in the military too and I'm yet to have a female player lay it on me.

Edit: currently responding lol

They're amateurs. Silly, goofy, much like in the original? It showcases perfectly why they needed to hire Cloud.
Biggs himself says that Cloud is a professional, unlike them.

I actually found the dialogue to be quite good so far.  Amazing? Groundbreaking? Heartstopping? No.  But neither is the original.

Why do you even bother?

I mean, the dude that worships the dialogue of the original as the greatest thing ever written, is also the same dude that has spent years trying to fix it lol.

As for the people who think the combat system is basic and easy, I guess you forgot that you can best every single enemy in the original game by spamming X and an occasional cure spell or healing item. It doesn't get much more basic than that.

ike, if you read Game of Thrones, but don't like the show.  OK, cool.  So, only read the books then.  You don't have to watch.   You come off as hating it because you think people expect you to hate it.  But let me be the first to tell you... it's ok to be yourself.  You don't have to be who everyone expects you to be.  It's not healthy.

That's what you and most normal people do. Don't like something? Don't watch it, don't play it, next!

However, you're addressing an insane narcissist that actively brags about writing huge review rants that no one will ever read or give 2 craps about, and considers everyone with an opinion that differs from theirs to be less intelligent than himself.

he has been crying his eyes out for years and hating on the remake before there even was anything to hate on lol. Stopping now would be damaging to his little fragile ego so anything you say, unless negative, is irrelevant.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ on 2020-03-07 16:43:07
I don't think insults will get us anywhere either.  In my limited experience, it seems to usually cause the other party to dig in their heals further.  I've found street epistemology to be much more effective
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-07 16:53:28
I don't think insults will get us anywhere either.  In my limited experience, it seems to usually cause the other party to dig in their heals further.  I've found street epistemology to be much more effective

You're not wrong. I have no sympathy and even less restraint when it comes to dealing with entitled, narcissistic people with a history of toxic behavior behavior.

I'm fully aware it's an unproductive type of response so if you or any mod woukd like to edit/remove anything I posted, I fully understand and will hold no hard feelings at all.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-03-07 17:48:40
If it was supposed to be realistic, you would get an uncanny valley vibe.  Nothing in the demo actually appears to be going for realism.

SE themselves made it clear they were going for realism. The graphics appear to be very realistic. But the battles don't.
If a thing can be musing it seem to take precedent over a logical flow.

Having been in the military...
They're amateurs. Silly, goofy, much like in the original? It showcases perfectly why they needed to hire Cloud.
Biggs himself says that Cloud is a professional, unlike them.
I'm in the military too and I'm yet to have a female player lay it on me like Jessie. And as Ric pointed out, these are not military characters, they are ammature eco-terrorists. I think that is very clear in both games.
But they act like this is a casual friday. Again, perhaps SE will come up with some perfect explanation(?), or maybe this is the intention. But I believe this falls down to the "spirit of story in gaming" or "cartoon characters" or "don think abouut it". The setting wasn't considered in high regard when writing this part. It was more important to let us who they are, and that could have been done much better.
Sure, it's kind of a nitpick, but the detail matters. It what makes fictional worlds believable.

1. Pretty sure I address this higher up.
I would agree with you if this were a Tom Clancy game. ...
...
Some of the banter is good and does help with character development. ...
Design choice and tone. The design is very different between the versions; how they act has an impact in that regard.

2. You'll have to be more specific on what the conflict is.

What I mean by design mentality is how SE is deciding to create the game in all aspects. How the game should look, feel, and sound etc. Match that with the statements from SE. They are very manipulative. Example from the top of my head: "FF7 remake will be a traditional action RPG like you would expect with focus on realism." Yeah, not a leading statement at all. Why would anyone expect that?
The term "Realism" is a staple to make it seem more appealing. But the game isn't very realistic at all besides how it looks graphically.
In the end, how you feel, and how it is supposed to be perceived, doesn't really matter. But the fact remains that SE are manipulative in their marketing by pushing their product in a certain way. This is rather normal for AAA companies.

When it comes to storytelling in FFs, not everything is bad, of course, but they lean heavily towards style over substance. That's so blatantly self-evident.
It's absolutely fine to like it, but everyone has a limit on what they can handle.
Would it be ok if Pikachu was on the mission and chanted "Pika, pika!" all the time?
What if Wedge actually was a talking carrot that farted a lot?
Rather extreme examples, yes, but the point is to show that everyone has a limit on what they can handle before calling BS.

Hey, if people buy and enjoy the story then more the power to them.

But are you pretty like cloud

Dude, Jessie would die if she saw me. 8)
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] 04.2020 - News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-07 17:53:54
I do agree that the dialogue and battle banter is kind of cheesy and cringe-worthy, but after I while I'll probably get used to it.

And the plot point that it was actually Shinra that blew up the reactor doesn't exactly sit right with me either. It depends on what they'll do with it later in the game. But apparently it could've been implied that this happened in the original too because Jessie says the bomb's explosion was bigger than it should've been? I'm not sure either way.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-03-07 22:07:25
To be honest i still hate the leggins and the black stuff on Tifa.. She needs the classic look.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-08 01:11:06
And before anyone jumps at me barking moderation - you'll note Ric couldn't stop himself..

They're not gonna jump on you over such a weak response. (I hope).

I mean, being called a retard by a special needs, medicated, basement dwelling, acne survivor is amusing.

Holy cow...  they're making it in parts each charging a full amount and you guys are happy to bend over for them.

Holy cow y'all bending over with those 59$!

Really? Would you like a donation? I'm sure we could start a GoFundMe campaign or some crap. I hear people with disabilities tend to find support in those so I'm sure we'd be able to get you all those parts without you ever having to see the sun and risk the nasty breakouts.

you're not going to convince me

Of course not. They could release the absolute best game ever known to mankind and you would still not be convinced. As I said, you hated the remake and got emotional about it before there was even anything to hate on.

No. One. Cares.

Your opinion changes nothing. The game(s) will be released, some people are going to have a blast, others are not going to enjoy it and put it aside, and then there's gonna be the (hopefully) small group of people like you, who are gonna spend their time (which is more valuable than the 59$ anyone will spend on it) obsessing about it, writing 1000 word reviews no one will read, crying their eyes out, private messaging people whom might somehow make them feel like they're not alone in their obsession, and being miserable in general.

Enjoy! That's my last shot at you unless properly provoked to go any further.

Dear mods, feel free to clean up. Cause I won't edit anything out. I've said what I've said.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: olearyf2525 on 2020-03-08 04:52:41
That Double Crossing line is because Barret maybe thinks Cloud might have just betrayed him by not setting the bomb and could be getting ambushed.

Yeah I figured, I don't know it just felt slightly awkward/irrational, but then again Barret is supposed to be irrational/emotional. He's been with Cloud this whole time he knows he hasn't double crossed him unless it happened before the train.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-09 03:00:18
From memory Barret was constantly questioning clouds commitment to the blowing the first reactor in original upto and including planting the bomb, like hired muscle that could be working for the enemy was a real concern and should be
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Dark Phoenix on 2020-03-11 01:28:37
I just finished the demo, and I don't like it.  But then, I didn't like FF7 to begin with.  Still, was anyone asking for Final Fantasy 7 to be turned into a Dynasty Warriors/Kingdom Hearts amalgamation?  The battle system is deeper than "hammer Square until thing dies", but the problem is "hammer Square until thing dies" works WAY too well for every enemy in the demo except the boss... Who is an annoying fucker because the battle system doesn't allow for the kind of indicators the ATB system used to, meaning that most of the battle is "hang back until the boss is vulnerable, and then hit him hard for a few minutes"...
I have a suspicion that unless you prefer this kind of combat, most fans of the original FF7 are going to pull the new HQ cutscenes from this sucker and load them into the old engine...
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-11 05:25:11
Doesn't work so good against the sweepers or the grunts? Both of them were capable of killing my cloud when I hit square to win, demos do this thing where they usually make you op or give you higher drop rates.

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-11 13:42:52
but the problem is "hammer Square until thing dies" works WAY too well for every enemy in the demo except the boss...

Which is the case for pretty much every other RPG/Action RPG lol. You rarely struggle and have the need to come up with strategies for random encounters. So yeah, no surprise here tbh.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: capgames on 2020-03-11 15:54:16
I am rather surprised on a lot of the comments about FF7:R. For years people have been wanting a remake and now that we have seen game play, screenshots, renders, etc. all people can do is criticize it to pieces, and there are a ton of people making assumptions relating to things we have not even seen yet.

TBH i think its rather shocking. I am a fan of the original game and the whole series and when SE finally announced the remake i was all excited. The episodic nature of the release is one i do not mind. ask yourself this, would you rather wait another 4, 5, 6, 7 or more years for a remake? or be able to play a remake a lot sooner.

As for the changes to the combat system, its to be expected that there would be a change, and tbh, i personally like the hybrid system they have in the demo. It give a modern spin to it while having some throw backs to the turn-based system at the same time. Sure not everyone is going to like it, and making a game you really cannot please everyone as everyone will have their own take/spin/thoughts/ideas how things are to be done/written/designed/etc. The new battle system was really easy to get into while still feeling satisfied that they have not forgotten the roots of the core game.

The remake is larger in size because of how games have evolved since the original and the fact that they are adding voice acting to the game just makes that even more so the case along side higher quality textures, lighting, models, animations, etc.

Ask yourself, What is a game remake to you?
Personally, for a remake, I want to see an evolution of the game, I want something more brought to the table, i want a different experience playing the game that is different to the last 38 times i have played the original with and without mods and i want more detail to the story line. I don't want them to change the battle system between episodes/parts/chapters/whatever name you want to put to it, i want the battle system to be the same across all parts to keep that feel though out the whole experience. I hope it comes to PC to have the chance to mod it like the original

I have played every FF game there and completed them all, some more times than others, i have my favorites and there are some that i just despise, the ones i like, some people don't like and some that i despise some people love. Not everyone is the same. I own every FF title released (legitimately) and on multiple platforms from NES to current gen console and PC regardless if i like them or not because i am a fan of the franchise and I want more FF games so i show my support with my money. All i know is that i want more Final Fantasy and if it means remakes of originals i don't care, i will play though them regardless and would like to see FF8 and FF9 get the same treatment some day.

I want FF7:R to be a massive hit because I want more remakes like what they are doing with FF7:R and new titles too. I get that some people are not happy with the remake and its impossible to please everyone, it will also bring more of an audience to the franchise and i am sure people have been playing FF7 for the 1st time because of the remake, in turn generating more money for SE. what i do know is that if they feel that continuing will be too much of a hassle than its worth due to the backlash of the fan base they will just decide to stop and we can only blame the fan base if that does happen,

Some of the anger on here between old Tifa and new Tifa, Barrett with glasses or without glasses, old battle system vs. new battle system, i just find it a little petty. its just evolution of change, if you make something now and then make it again in 20 years time, you will make it different because you learned new things since, you have discovered how to improve it based on your own ideas, evolve it based on new technologies, etc. That's what SE are doing for FF7:R

I see no point in writing it off and calling it a failure till i have seen what they have done overall. I will give it a chance, i am open minded and will play though it regardless if it is a disappointment or not. At least i am willing to accept change and give it a fighting chance.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Eyundis on 2020-03-11 22:31:30
Knowing about them changing the mako reactor bombings so that Shinra frames Avalanche actually made me think of another change I see them doing.

I'm thinking they'll change the sector destruction so that Reno isn't the one who detonates the bomb. That way, he would't have the blood of so many on his hands and therefore it'd be much easier to spin him as the goofy backup fighter/sidekick to Rufus he was in Advent Children among other overall making the Turks into antiheroes since they're fan-favorites who survived the original game.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-12 00:05:23
Most of the criticisms are based off assumptions, and nostalgia. The whole same game just prettier has always rubbed me the wrong way, even if it comes with fixes, RPGs as a whole are typically poorly balanced to the point once modding is available you get things like new threat or nightmare mod

Not liking the dialogue is entirely subjective, and is rather obviously an issue for some people, especially people who have spent countless hours re-translating so it's truer to the original script, that being said the dialogue so far is objectively better then average for a video game.

Concerns and criticism of the multigame structure is quite frankly ridiculous at post demo, a 15min section now takes at minimum 45min, which if extrapolated to full midgar is close to 20hours with no new content, which is about average for most styles of game, with new content it's unlikely that it will take less then 40 to finish first play through and probably 100+ for completionists.

As for the story changes I haven't seen anything deal breaking, I've seen plenty of story expansion, pacing changes and character reveal/motivation adjustments but again kinda have to wait and see how it plays out, like the whole avalanche being less competent and shinra being more manipulative, or the more prominent emphasis on Sephiroth in early game, at this stage just is, it could be amazing down the line or it could be handled poorly. They have added and expanded on some of the more mature themes like the cost of the bombing missions and mental illness(PTSD) in cloud which adds another layer to explore.so at current insufficient evidence to say hey the story changes are rubbish but it does look promising.

Gameplay is a critical part of a game if it play like arse then it doesn't matter how good the story is, now aside from a handful of less vocal people who've actually played the gameplay response is overwhelmingly positive, and with playing the demo you can see the potential in the battle system rather easily, it looks like there are a couple of tiers of enemy, you have the hold square to kill floor fillers, gimmick fights like the sentinal rays, "harder" floor fillers, weakness based fights and setpiece boss fights. The ATB major actions feel powerful and very purposeful, while magic feels powerful when used correctly and fairly limp if used poorly (staggered weakness for 700damage vs 150 for normal strength), I maintain I still haven't found any i-frames to exploit. Each character so far plays remarkably different which in effect will give us 4 different playstyles to choose to main, cause ATB charges like ass if you aren't controlling, basically there is variety and depth that is quite uncommon to have both in games, straight RPGs lack variety, action games typically lack depth and we are getting both, all while looking spectacular my only gripe is that there are way toany partial effects going on in combat.

Difficulty, it's harder then it appears first play, but once you figure it out it gets much easier I do hope they give us a proper hard mode at some stage which is actually fairly easy for them to do like it's literally just putting multiplyers on enemy stats because the enemy's aren't stupid from my experience so more health and damage would very quickly increase the difficulty, but overall it's already way harder then the original even after you figure it out.

Remake is done in unreal engine so I severely doubt modding it when it hits PC is gonna be terribly difficult, and with hacked ps4s there could be simple mods before release
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-13 04:48:28
I don't really get the 'realism' complaint personally. Yes, the game does look a bit more 'realistic' than it used to, but does that not mean it can't have fantasy elements? Look at games like Uncharted and The Last of Us. They look like Hollywood films, but feature things like zombies and djinn monsters. And in Uncharted's case, a protagonist who can kill an army of trained gunmen by sheer luck. What about shows like The Walking Dead or most superhero films? It's silly, sure, but that comes with the territory in a lot of fiction.

I never saw Cloud's combos in the Remake and thought "What?! Cloud would never do that!" Partially because I know the dude is basically superhuman because of the Mako infused in him, and also because I know action games tend to make combos look flashy and strong so they're satisfying to play.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: MysticLord on 2020-03-13 05:14:58
Really looking forward to this, and especially modding it. A more... nostalgic Tifa mod will be the first thing I download.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Chrysalis on 2020-03-13 05:16:07
I have mixed views, cannot remember if I replied on this earlier.

For me, its a new FF7 game, which is not a bad thing, but I am not sure if I am happy with the fact they ditched the existing system and made it into an action RPG.

Also not happy with the profiteering of splitting  one game into three.  No matter how much you stretch it out so the hours of game time add up, it doesnt quite sit right with me.

If they wanted to do 3 games.  I would have been ok with the FF7 as the main part of the story, second game been a prequel covering crisis core, a game that was only ever released on a handhold.  The 3rd one been entirely new story been added.  Blizzard did something similar with starcraft 2 and for me that didnt turn out well.

Game is pre ordered however, nostalgia and all that, I am also not a fan of all the exclusive DLC nonsense, my OCD makes me want to have every part of a game, and this would require at the very least buying 3 copies, which I think is not a nice way to treat your fan base.  Ended up pre ordering the digital version which has the most content included as an option and a dashboard theme.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-03-14 15:06:12
I don't really get the 'realism' complaint personally. Yes, the game does look a bit more 'realistic' than it used to, but does that not mean it can't have fantasy elements?
...

Don't know about others, but when I talk about realism in regard of FF7R I mean how SE designed the remake, not the actual setting. It obviously is a world with smagic, materia and summons.
The tone of the game is "realistic" if you will, and it clashes with the mainstream appeal it goes for. To illustrate my point: Imagine if GoT had a mustache-twirling villain going: "Hahaha, I'll get you next time, Stark!" at the end of each episode. Wouldn't that seem a little bit off? Clash with the overall feel? This example is exaggerated, yes, to make my point clear. FF7R isn't that bad.

Most of the criticisms are based off assumptions, and nostalgia. The whole same game just prettier has always rubbed me the wrong way...

The nostalgia card can be lumped right back. "People just like it because of nostalgia". Regarding assumptions, and now I'm talking gameplay, isn't it natural to assume a game will be remade within the same genre?
To be clear, I don't think FF7R looks like a bad game. It's just that SE has disappointed me by pretty much going the opposite direction of what I would have preferred. Not that I'm surprised by the direction SE takes, still, disappointed.

And I don't think anyone has ever made a serious argument for a carbon-copy remake with improved graphics only. Mayyyybeee 15 years ago, but not now.
Seriously, how many times will peeps spout this? I've lost count over how many times I've seen these "You just want the same game with updated graphics" claims. xD
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-15 23:40:07
Your not wrong about nostalgia going both ways, there a plenty of people praising basic mechanics like the map and interactive environments as if they aren't things that should be expected at this stage of gaming technology, there are also plenty of people who are in the original can do no wrong so everything new is bad camp.

I'm very much in the play the damn game before you make your decision camp the demos only like 8gb and in my opinion it should give you a fair idea if your gonna want to play/spend on the full game, what I have a problem with is the bashing of something before you've even tried with an open mind.

I will say this though I really wouldn't call it an action RPG, I would call it a tactical action game at least on normal mode
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-03-16 18:08:31
I just finished the demo, and I don't like it.  But then, I didn't like FF7 to begin with.  Still, was anyone asking for Final Fantasy 7 to be turned into a Dynasty Warriors/Kingdom Hearts amalgamation?  The battle system is deeper than "hammer Square until thing dies", but the problem is "hammer Square until thing dies" works WAY too well for every enemy in the demo except the boss... Who is an annoying fucker because the battle system doesn't allow for the kind of indicators the ATB system used to, meaning that most of the battle is "hang back until the boss is vulnerable, and then hit him hard for a few minutes"...
I have a suspicion that unless you prefer this kind of combat, most fans of the original FF7 are going to pull the new HQ cutscenes from this sucker and load them into the old engine...

I for one hate the Dynasty Warriors games.. That's why i never liked the One Piece games and always wanted a proper fighting game with realistic characters in that world.

Anyway, i do think the new FF7 Remake looks fun to play, but i haven't played the demo yet- just been watching at least five different playthroughs on Youtube. I kind of like the look of things. And i absolutely loved the original ATB-system. Unlike FF8 and FF9 i always enjoyed FF7's materia-system more.

Dynasty Warriors sucks because it's just slashing at multiple enemies without any thought or need of strategy..

I actually do like Kingdom Hearts 2 though, but Kingdom Hearts 1 had way worse battle mechanics than number 2. I had almost finished the game when i managed to delete my save..

Point is that FF7R is looking great- and i hate Dynasty Warriors.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Dark Phoenix on 2020-03-16 18:17:32
And I don't think anyone has ever made a serious argument for a carbon-copy remake with improved graphics only. Mayyyybeee 15 years ago, but not now.
Seriously, how many times will peeps spout this? I've lost count over how many times I've seen these "You just want the same game with updated graphics" claims. xD

I could probably go for the same game with updated graphics, but that might be because I'm tired of SE treating the turn-based battle systems like the ferning plague...
The whole reason there's a nostalgia wave running through gaming right now is BECAUSE so many companies ignore what worked in the past in order to chase the current leader, and SE is the WORST when it comes to that.  It's the reason there hasn't been a good Final Fantasy in over a decade...

Anyway, i do think the new FF7 Remake looks fun to play, but i haven't played the demo yet- just been watching at least five different playthroughs on Youtube. I kind of like the look of things. And i absolutely loved the original ATB-system. Unlike FF8 and FF9 i always enjoyed FF7's materia-system more.

I always thought that 9 had the best system.  It's much harder to abuse unless you absolutely GRIND for support ability gems later in the game...

Dynasty Warriors sucks because it's just slashing at multiple enemies without any thought or need of strategy..

Depends on which version you play.  And some of the anime variations are much better at avoiding the whole "hit same button to win" thing.  My preferred Warriors game, to be honest, is Berserk & The Band Of The Hawk... Mostly because when you're playing as Guts, you EXPECT to be able to mow down legions of soldiers.  They don't call him the "Hundred Man Slayer" for nothing...

Point is that FF7R is looking great- and i hate Dynasty Warriors.

I couldn't stand playing Kingdom Hearts really past the first town, because I hate mindless button mashers.  And going through the demo, that's what this felt like.  Yeah, periodically you have to cast spells or use abilities because a particular enemy won't just go down to slashing, but it never felt like I got out of the "mash attack to win" mindset.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-03-16 18:27:31
I am rather surprised on a lot of the comments about FF7:R. For years people have been wanting a remake and now that we have seen game play, screenshots, renders, etc. all people can do is criticize it to pieces, and there are a ton of people making assumptions relating to things we have not even seen yet.

TBH i think its rather shocking. I am a fan of the original game and the whole series and when SE finally announced the remake i was all excited. The episodic nature of the release is one i do not mind. ask yourself this, would you rather wait another 4, 5, 6, 7 or more years for a remake? or be able to play a remake a lot sooner.

As for the changes to the combat system, its to be expected that there would be a change, and tbh, i personally like the hybrid system they have in the demo. It give a modern spin to it while having some throw backs to the turn-based system at the same time. Sure not everyone is going to like it, and making a game you really cannot please everyone as everyone will have their own take/spin/thoughts/ideas how things are to be done/written/designed/etc. The new battle system was really easy to get into while still feeling satisfied that they have not forgotten the roots of the core game.

The remake is larger in size because of how games have evolved since the original and the fact that they are adding voice acting to the game just makes that even more so the case along side higher quality textures, lighting, models, animations, etc.

Ask yourself, What is a game remake to you?

"Ask yourself, What is a game remake to you?"

Well, a remake to me would have been the same game with only new graphics originally. What Square-Enix is doing now is a re-boot of Final Fantasy VII, and not really a simple remake like the name suggested.

Because ask yourself what a remaster is to you? It's not a game with chibi-models, or is it? I'd say the Remaster was disappointing- i'd much rather play the PC version using the NinoStyle models - and if NinoStyle ever completes the full game with those battle-models that would be a true remaster, or is that a remake?

If Square-Enix's remaster is a remaster, then the mod would be the remake with the same game and new models- and the FF7R is a Re-Boot of the entire franchise.

At the end of the day i didn't want the old game with better resolution like in the official Remaster, but i did always want the old game with better models- best of all if they looked like on the art by Nomura himself -or like in the FMV-videos - NinoStyle and Kaldarasha have made this a reality for the PC-version of FF7 and i just wish all the models had both styles. Especially NinoStyle's style which is the same as the original anime art.

The Remaster with the old chibi models is not good enough, and the Remake is very different- i'm certainly going to love the Remake but when i first heard Remake i thought of an official version of the mods with even better graphics but the same old game.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Dark Phoenix on 2020-03-16 18:35:45
I want FF7:R to be a massive hit because I want more remakes like what they are doing with FF7:R and new titles too.

I don't, because more often than not, when SE remakes a game to this level, they fuck things up that didn't need to be fucked up.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-16 19:20:50
I couldn't stand playing Kingdom Hearts really past the first town, because I hate mindless button mashers. 

That's very untrue. Button-mashing will get you nowhere in KH unless you're playing on Easy difficulty. Critical Mode and even Proud Mode will force you to be strategic or get 2-shotted by even regular weak enemies.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-16 19:22:39
That's very untrue. Button-mashing will get you nowhere in KH unless you're playing on Easy difficulty. Critical Mode and even Proud Mode will force you to be strategic or get 2-shotted by even regular weak enemies.

This guy gets it.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-03-16 19:25:51
Personally, for a remake, I want to see an evolution of the game, I want something more brought to the table, i want a different experience playing the game that is different to the last 38 times i have played the original with and without mods and i want more detail to the story line. I don't want them to change the battle system between episodes/parts/chapters/whatever name you want to put to it, i want the battle system to be the same across all parts to keep that feel though out the whole experience. I hope it comes to PC to have the chance to mod it like the original

I have played every FF game there and completed them all, some more times than others, i have my favorites and there are some that i just despise, the ones i like, some people don't like and some that i despise some people love. Not everyone is the same. I own every FF title released (legitimately) and on multiple platforms from NES to current gen console and PC regardless if i like them or not because i am a fan of the franchise and I want more FF games so i show my support with my money. All i know is that i want more Final Fantasy and if it means remakes of originals i don't care, i will play though them regardless and would like to see FF8 and FF9 get the same treatment some day.

I want FF7:R to be a massive hit because I want more remakes like what they are doing with FF7:R and new titles too. I get that some people are not happy with the remake and its impossible to please everyone, it will also bring more of an audience to the franchise and i am sure people have been playing FF7 for the 1st time because of the remake, in turn generating more money for SE. what i do know is that if they feel that continuing will be too much of a hassle than its worth due to the backlash of the fan base they will just decide to stop and we can only blame the fan base if that does happen,

Some of the anger on here between old Tifa and new Tifa, Barrett with glasses or without glasses, old battle system vs. new battle system, i just find it a little petty. its just evolution of change, if you make something now and then make it again in 20 years time, you will make it different because you learned new things since, you have discovered how to improve it based on your own ideas, evolve it based on new technologies, etc. That's what SE are doing for FF7:R

I see no point in writing it off and calling it a failure till i have seen what they have done overall. I will give it a chance, i am open minded and will play though it regardless if it is a disappointment or not. At least i am willing to accept change and give it a fighting chance.

I agree with the decision to improve upon the original, expand upon the games story and locations etc- i always thought it should have been even more grand in scale. I also wanted them to add multiplayer so you could play with friends in the battles, for example having friends controlling the other characters- but that might not work too well in the ordinary story. But in the Gold Saucer area they should in my opinion add a VS mode for multiplayer duels. The battle-arena but versus other players as well. Also, i always thought it would be cool to play as the villains as well- some sub-story where you control the bad-guys would be awesome! So i wholeheartedy agree with you on not wanting the exact same game- even though i would have loved that as well.  I can't really play FF7 too many times, it's my first PC-game that i ever played - and it's the best FF period.

I 100% agree with you that they should keep the battle-system the same throughout the entirety of the original FF7 story. I wouldn't want the other parts to feel like different games. At least not when it comes to the battle-system - of course they should be different in terms of story and world building. The world map will be very interesting, and how you will travel the world on a Chocobo now. Will they make the world detailed and huge? Or keep smaller areas like the Chocobo Farm and Kalm? It would make sense to turn Kalm into a city in itself, and make everything bigger- i did always think everything but Midgar looked so small. Wutai being the only major contender to the Shinra besides Fort Condor.

Absolutely, a PC-port is a must for the game to have any chance of surviving as long as the old game has. And unless they add DLC for character costumes i believe it's needed for us who'd want the traditional clothes on the characters.

I haven't owned all the FF games.. I used to own Playstation CD's with FF1-2, FF6, FF7, FF8 and FF9, i do own FF7 on PC, i do own FFX on the PS2, FFX-2 on the PS2, FFXII on the PS2, FFXII on the PS4, i own Ehrgeiz for the PSX which is a fighting game from 1998 with FF7 characters- and i do own FF7 Crisis Core on the PSP, FF Dissidia (all of the games- but i disliked the PS4 version due to not being exactly like the PSP-titles -especially that it didn't have 1 VS 1 and also no RPG-styled combat that i used in the Duodecim12.). Only FF7 game i really dislike is the Dirge of Cerberus game because it ruined Hojo's original story by having him survive.

I didn't play all these games though- the games i finished were only the PSONE titles. But i liked FFXII in the sense that i couldn't stop playing. But after i finally shut it down i never returned. It had the power to keep me at the screen when i had it on though. I wasn't a big fan of the combat but i found the story fascinating at the time- i bought it on release.

I also do own the bradygames strategy guides of FF7, FF8 and FF12. So while i am not as big a Final Fantasy fan as you- i am a hardcore FF7 fan. I owned FFXIII as well but i didn't like the game. It lacked an open world and you could only go one way.. It sucked in comparison to FFXII even though it had better battle-mechanics. The PSX-games were superior. FFX had too many videos playing all the time. I enjoyed in the older titles that videos were rare. That made them something to look forward to. Unlike you i don't feel like i do need to play all the titles.. I simply play them if they're good. I've thought about playing FF6 because it seemed really good, and i love it's music- but i just can't stand old graphics. Even though i am from the SNES generation.. But back then i played Mario and Donkey Kong Country- FF7 was the first FF game i ever played. Final Fantasy 8 deserves a remake as well.

I also want the new FF7R to be a massive hit. Because otherwise we won't get the full story and that's what i don't like about the episodic nature of releasing the game- in my opinion they should have waited for three more years and released all three CD's at once. Because we're risking the first game to flop- resulting in us never getting the later parts. The whole game would have been better off sold at once even if that meant a longer waiting time.

Yes, i'm also worried there won't be a part 2 and part 3 if the first game doesn't do well enough.. But the demo has gotten well received by fans and new players alike.

Finally i don't support the style change of characters. They looked good already, especially in the case of Tifa- the only one i have a problem with to be honest, because she was gorgeous in the original. They've made her less attractive which is a minus. The black clothing beneath the white clothes especially. Just change her back to the original in my opinion. Let her have bare legs.. That's a clear minus for the Remake as i always wanted art-Tifa in modern graphical quality- or FMV-Tifa.

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Dark Phoenix on 2020-03-16 20:41:12
I also want the new FF7R to be a massive hit. Because otherwise we won't get the full story and that's what i don't like about the episodic nature of releasing the game- in my opinion they should have waited for three more years and released all three CD's at once. Because we're risking the first game to flop- resulting in us never getting the later parts. The whole game would have been better off sold at once even if that meant a longer waiting time.

Yes, i'm also worried there won't be a part 2 and part 3 if the first game doesn't do well enough..

No chance.  SE has been saving this bullet for a LONG time...
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-17 02:09:12
Are we seriously talking about the same game, here like yeah original was a pretty dope game, but you can't really say that with all the re-translating you've personally done that the original English script was amazing or grind until you where to boss then press X to win gameplay was really that spectacular.

Ff7 was amazing because of 3 things, the graphic(got outdated damn quick) the over arching story(not the original script) and the material system(which was bugged to hell)

The gameplay wasn't spectacular nor were the battles difficult to the point you can finish it cloud,solo no leveling, with fairly limited experience.

This is coming from someone who loved the original in all its glorious innovative buggy mess, in retrospect however it's the greatest rpg ever made it's not even the best square made rpg (6 is better fight me)

Dlpb you are the minority, childishly choosing to not even give a game a chance like a toddler that won't eat broccoli cause it's green.  the majority are just happy that we are getting a game that plays well that expands on the previous existing story with the character we love brought back in glorious hd.

Fyi they haven't changed any of the primary story plot points, they have adjusted the midgar pacing for it to be more cohesive, with better justification for the actions taken
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-17 02:27:43
Within 4 years we could have had an updated, glorious looking pre-rendered style FF7 with additions and changes along the lines of Qhimm mods.

You really think a multi-million dollar company like Square would use the mods on a tiny forum barely anybody knows about? If you're talking about inspiration or ideas, then yeah, maybe, but taking the actual mods and putting them in the game? Zero chance.

And remakes don't tend to use pre-rendered backgrounds. The Resident Evil remake did it, but that's the only example I can think of.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-17 03:34:18
"along the lines of"

Does not mean

"use Qhimm stuff".

I'm not sure why you think it does?

Also, as numerous people keep repeating - nobody wanted a 1:1 update.  They wanted a graphical update, the style and gameplay keeping the same, but clear flaws like AI / bugs / bad translation to be resolved.  I never wanted this crap we've got here and I never did.  What we're getting isn't a remake - it's a total reboot.  And in parts just for a laugh.

Oh okay. I misunderstood.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-17 04:40:33
Use of qhimm stuff has already happened....aali driver, 1.04patch, the spirit/mag def fix, just not models animations or textures
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-03-17 06:34:13
Use of qhimm stuff has already happened....aali driver, 1.04patch, the spirit/mag def fix, just not models animations or textures

He didn't say that Square should use Qhimm-stuff..

He said that he wanted the Remake to aim for the same goals as the Qhimm mods- improvements upon the original including re-translations, graphics, better AI.

In other words the original game with modern quality-of-life changes. And i'd never buy the remaster when i have the Qhimm mods that looks a million times better.

What Dlpb meant is that the Remake could have been like a mod but better in every area that mods are improving. Instead Square went for a Reboot- meaning it's a different game than the original, with different graphical style as well.

We original fans mostly wanted just a graphical update when we asked for a remake in the past- i do think that's the majority.

However, seeing how bad Warcraft 3 Reforged did (and it were a remake only updating the graphics) when it released maybe it's for the best to make the Remake different. If it were the same as the old it would certainly look prettier- but would probably get a lower rating.

Still- the style of the characters didn't need an update.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-17 09:40:35
I was just pointing out that these things came from the modding community rather then from square, to the point there was a fair while there where the "official" patch was actually made by someone on this forum and was downloaded from here without permission being sought using up qhimms bandwidth at the time.... Gee I feel old remembering that.

RPGs really haven't exolved much in the last 20years unless you count the shift into action RPG territory, so there really isn't much in the way of quality of life improvement available, they literally could make it a bit prettier and smoother, but that's really about all, maybe tacking on a new game+ or story DLC while maintaining straight remaster status.

Looking at reforged as an example, the hardcore fanbase wanted this se game just prettier but no-one wants to pay $60us for a game that they already own, and new players who came from SC2 lol and Dota all think reforged plays likes.a bag of soggy vibrators, going back tto wc3 is regrettably the same.

Re2 isnt a direct 1-1 remaster because there were innovations in RE gameplay mechanics that kept the overall feel, looks good , plays good reviewed good

A direct remaster plus a couple of spare minigames is a waste of time and effort because they do poorly sales wise, you don't work for free why should they, anymore the a straight graphical update is major work even, even if it's something as simple as streamlineing or updating battle ai, how long has Sega chief been working on new threat, with current tools, how long did it take gjoerulv to make nightmare, both of which play completely different to ff7 base, how many hours did aali put into his driver, what about the hours spent just on making the tools to make modding ff7 possible, all of these where labours of love for a game all of which happened because people had issues with the original that weren't story related.

Point is I've bought reg ff7 3 times because I love the game mainly for nostalgia reasons, it's story while good had many unfinished threads to its tapestry,and didn't feel finished,  it's graphics really don't hold up well today, neither does it's gameplay, there is very little you can do to improve base rpg gameplay without a full rebuild of the battle module at which point pretty well anything you make is no longer base ff7.

As for the style updates on no Tifa now has stockings on and shorts instead of a skirt and bare legged(I don't play games to perv it's kinda creepy if you do) and Barret wears sunglasses at night and clouds hair is mildly less super sayan, or are you talking about the no SD/chibi (my least favourite artstyle) because really the arts fairly consistent with the original aside from those changes with the exception of a couple of colour changes on clothing.

I maintain I don't see the appeal of same game again with a couple of bonus goodies, a full remake/reimagining peaked my interest to the point I played the demo and gosh golly it was fun enough to make me wanna spring for the $750 copy, that sold out mind you, to the point they had to ramp up production of the $200 version to accommodate the pre-orders, pretty sure I sit with the majority that gave it a go and liked it that much
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-03-19 12:53:30
Free demo is free if you have a PS4 and a half decent internet subscription. if you don't have one well that's a different story, it's your loss.

$60usd for yet another copy of something you already own isnt exactly smart. $60usd for 20-60hrs of new experience in a beloved world sure that makes sense to me, which you can test play for free.

I firmly believe that the story is less important then how a game plays, which I find it quite fun, story is just a bonus, that being said they are extending the original story taking in lore elements from the ff7,cc,doc,AC,BC and a light novel or 2, so more story from the same world, which is being ajusted by most of the original team and people who grew up loving ff7.

I wouldn't say that original ff7 was manga art style, exaggerated characters sure but that can be chalked up to hardware limitations, in specific max polygons displayable by the PS1, unless your are talking specifically about the concept art, which while nice to look at isn't reflected in game.

Reforged was received so badly blizzard offered no questions asked refunds, RE2+ sold so well Capcom chose to continue remaking games... I would suggest that is a fair indicator that reboots/remakes handled well perform far better then remasters sales wise.

Whether on not you like RE2+ is irrelevant it was entirely to point out  difference in reception.

Square-enix likes to make money, they sure as hell wouldn't have made ff7remake part 1 if they weren't gonna turn a tidy profit.

At this point I'm fairly sure your just gonna continue bashing it because it's not exactly what you personally wanted, all I'm  suggesting is try it out before you choose to be vocal in your dislike
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-03-19 14:34:07
To say you can't know if you like something without trying it is rather silly.

I know I won't like spending hours watching pokemon. I know I wouldn't like getting my kneecaps done in by a sledgehammer. I know I won't like the 2016 Ghostbuster movie.
You probably need to make a fair amount of assumptions, sure, but there are such things as reasonable assumptions.

$60usd for yet another copy of something you already own isnt exactly smart. $60usd for 20-60hrs of new experience in a beloved world sure that makes sense to me, which you can test play for free.

I wouldn't say that original ff7 was manga art style, exaggerated characters sure but that can be chalked up to hardware limitations, in specific max polygons displayable by the PS1, unless your are talking specifically about the concept art, which while nice to look at isn't reflected in game.

Not sure if "manga" is the right word to use here, but the character had a certain "comic/manga" style, yes. Imo, that's obvious. I'm fairly sure DLPB means "manga" as in how they were designed, not how the field models turned out to be due to limitations. Personally I don't like how the words "manga" and "anime" are used like they are something else than comics and animations, but that's another topic. It's not like I don't know what people mean when they say: "that's looks like an anime character". So I guess they serve a purpose.

Quote from: Loaded statements
$20 For a massively polished experiences of something you know and love, with A LOT of extra content, quality of life improvements, bug fixes, huge AI improvements, perfect localization and more is EXACTLY what you want.
$60 For a game, with storytelling and gameplay comparable to DBZ, boring hack and slash, style-over-substance is stupid.

xP. You can make anything look like anything with the right words.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-19 22:34:32
On a positive note, seems like Amazon is going to be able to deliver the orders on April 10th.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-20 02:55:05
I found this video to be a pretty good explanation about the new combat system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztySzIUICj0

Was interesting to watch. The KH3 part of the video was on point and most of what he says about FF15 is on point as well.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-20 04:27:32
I found this video to be a pretty good explanation about the new combat system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztySzIUICj0

Was interesting to watch. The KH3 part of the video was on point and most of what he says about FF15 is on point as well.

Death_Unites_Us was always one of the guys most skeptical of the Remake from what I could tell. Glad he's giving it a chance even if he still prefers the original.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-03-20 18:34:30
I was just pointing out that these things came from the modding community rather then from square, to the point there was a fair while there where the "official" patch was actually made by someone on this forum and was downloaded from here without permission being sought using up qhimms bandwidth at the time.... Gee I feel old remembering that.

RPGs really haven't exolved much in the last 20years unless you count the shift into action RPG territory, so there really isn't much in the way of quality of life improvement available, they literally could make it a bit prettier and smoother, but that's really about all, maybe tacking on a new game+ or story DLC while maintaining straight remaster status.

Looking at reforged as an example, the hardcore fanbase wanted this se game just prettier but no-one wants to pay $60us for a game that they already own, and new players who came from SC2 lol and Dota all think reforged plays likes.a bag of soggy vibrators, going back tto wc3 is regrettably the same.

Re2 isnt a direct 1-1 remaster because there were innovations in RE gameplay mechanics that kept the overall feel, looks good , plays good reviewed good

A direct remaster plus a couple of spare minigames is a waste of time and effort because they do poorly sales wise, you don't work for free why should they, anymore the a straight graphical update is major work even, even if it's something as simple as streamlineing or updating battle ai, how long has Sega chief been working on new threat, with current tools, how long did it take gjoerulv to make nightmare, both of which play completely different to ff7 base, how many hours did aali put into his driver, what about the hours spent just on making the tools to make modding ff7 possible, all of these where labours of love for a game all of which happened because people had issues with the original that weren't story related.

Point is I've bought reg ff7 3 times because I love the game mainly for nostalgia reasons, it's story while good had many unfinished threads to its tapestry,and didn't feel finished,  it's graphics really don't hold up well today, neither does it's gameplay, there is very little you can do to improve base rpg gameplay without a full rebuild of the battle module at which point pretty well anything you make is no longer base ff7.

As for the style updates on no Tifa now has stockings on and shorts instead of a skirt and bare legged(I don't play games to perv it's kinda creepy if you do) and Barret wears sunglasses at night and clouds hair is mildly less super sayan, or are you talking about the no SD/chibi (my least favourite artstyle) because really the arts fairly consistent with the original aside from those changes with the exception of a couple of colour changes on clothing.

I maintain I don't see the appeal of same game again with a couple of bonus goodies, a full remake/reimagining peaked my interest to the point I played the demo and gosh golly it was fun enough to make me wanna spring for the $750 copy, that sold out mind you, to the point they had to ramp up production of the $200 version to accommodate the pre-orders, pretty sure I sit with the majority that gave it a go and liked it that much

Square-Enix should have updated the models, that's the most important thing- especially on the field. A Remaster without new field models based on the original art is not the remaster most people wanted. I would personally have wanted models looking exactly like the original art in a remaster.

RPG's have evolved a lot. For the better and for the worse. A lot of people i've spoken to have agreed with me that the change from FF9 to FFX with too many videos playing all the time was bad. Another bad change were the FFXII to FFXIII where the world-map disappeared. Making the experience less epic and smaller. Also less free as you were led through the story and couldn't go where you pleased in the world like in the PSX titles.

Blizzard didn't do a good job at avoiding bugs and issues. They did remove the old battle.net in favor of the new system- and they did replace the old one for the old game as well. If you owned the old game and tried to login online you would get your game updated to the new- with lots of unstability and issues. Of course it's a very bad idea to replace the original with the remake. It's like if Square-Enix would replace the original FF7 with the Remake ruining the multiplayer experience of the original in the process. Fortunately FF7 isn't a multiplayer game. And it's not on PC only- so it's impossible to ruin like Blizzard ruined WC3 multiplayer of the old version. They kind of put the classic out of action when they released the new. Not good if you did prefer the old one, thereby saying to their customers that now you'll need to play the new one instead. Sure, there is an option to use the old models but players have reported that it has a different battle.net that is less stable and prone to crashing often. It's true that WC3R still has the outdated playstyle, and unlike FF7 people don't enjoy that as much today.

I've bought FF7 for 50$ back in 1997 for the PC, then i did buy it again from another guy for the PSX and played the full game there as well because i wanted to know the difference. I also played the game on both Win XP with good graphics and on the original Win 95 with worse resolution. After that i've played it countless times using different mods- starting with DLPB's Rejuvenation project in 2007. Then i did buy the game for the full price again in 2013 from the Square-Enix store due to the CD not working when trying to install it. I've bought the game many times over, and played it even more times- it's true that i didn't bother buying the Steam-version when i already have two PC-versions with the CD:s and one S-E Store version. I actually bought a used version for the PC in 2016 i think because i thought my original version had been stolen. Then i found it again, so i have two CD-copies. But the one i got in 2016 didn't have the original package that my old version has.

Real FF7 fans are prepared to buy the original over and over again just to be able to play it again- and that would be true for a remaster with new models as well. The reason i re-installed the game when new cool mods released is because i wanted to play with the many new features- new models being the most interesting new feature. I did never really like the old chibi-models and always wished that the battle-models would be in the field as well. Something made possible in 2007 when i found the first graphical mods which added the battle-models to the field. After that even better models have been made, that are looking like the FMV-models (a dream come true) or even the art-style (perfect). But imagine if the official game had such better models and kept to the original- i woul certainly buy it even though most people might not. But the hardcore FF7 fans would.

Rebooting FF7 might be the best choice if Square-Enix wants it to get out of the originals shadow. There is a risk people would prefer the original over the remaster otherwise- because unless it's perfectly done people would rather play the original. I'd love better models, but that is not enough- if too many changes are made the new models won't make the game better. WC3R changed the models, but they did also change the overall style from cartoony to modern WoW style- in my opinion the new style is inferior to old WoW as an example. Too much modern values in it - and the female units are less attractive. Many modern games are plagued with this.

The original game isn't perfect, if it were there wouldn't be mods that are aiming to improve upon it- but it's story and gameplay were almost perfect. Of course everything can be improved without changing it. Changing things could also improve it- but that's a risk.

Agreed that the story felt rushed in the third CD. I did always want more in the last one to be honest. I were also disappointed that the fight against Sephiroth weren't against him as he looked like in the Kalm flashback. I thought that Sephiroth were the best looking one- i were obsessed with Sephiroth during high school and searched like a mad-man for mods that allowed me to play as him- or trainers. He weren't as cool in the final fight in my opinion.

The graphics were the best ever seen back in 1997 lol. But you're right about them not holding up today. The PC version can look quite well using mods. But those old chibi-models can't be used without the game looking outdated. Gameplay is still fun for us old folks i think. I don't know what young people below 25 think.

Eh, Tifa still has a skirt but it's not a leather-skirt and it's not as wide as the old one. The stockings are an annoyance to my eyes. She doesn't have shorts thankfully, but the new skirt is less hot than the old. Now, i'm not playing to perv or whatever you wrote- but i enjoy my girls to be eye-candy while playing. I do always choose a hot female character over a male one when i play. I'd keep Tifa in my party because i like looking at her proportions. Change that and i'll use something cool instead- ruining my Tifa experience. Real life women are hard to deal with in this day and age. Sometimes hot models of female characters in games could be nice for people who don't have girlfriends and who like to be less bored while playing. I think that's what's great about the 90's- females in games were always as sexy as possible. That's how it should be done. I do not care about Barret's sun-glasses. I do think Barret is looking much better in the Remake than in the old Advent Children. In the original game he might have looked more aggressive but that's because of the style. Cloud's hair on the other hand could have been more "Super Saiyan"- there were people like that in the 90's. Pop-stars with such hair. Anyway, Cloud looks much better than in Advent Children though- much better pants. But they could have been more like the WW2 Germans because they were more like them in the original.

I have already bought the remake, so i'm very much looking forward to it. It being different does peek my interest as well. But i'm still disappointed about the Tifa eye candy.

Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-03-20 19:26:20

I firmly believe that the story is less important then how a game plays, which I find it quite fun, story is just a bonus, that being said they are extending the original story taking in lore elements from the ff7,cc,doc,AC,BC and a light novel or 2, so more story from the same world, which is being ajusted by most of the original team and people who grew up loving ff7.

I wouldn't say that original ff7 was manga art style, exaggerated characters sure but that can be chalked up to hardware limitations, in specific max polygons displayable by the PS1, unless your are talking specifically about the concept art, which while nice to look at isn't reflected in game.

Reforged was received so badly blizzard offered no questions asked refunds, RE2+ sold so well Capcom chose to continue remaking games... I would suggest that is a fair indicator that reboots/remakes handled well perform far better then remasters sales wise.

Whether on not you like RE2+ is irrelevant it was entirely to point out  difference in reception.

Square-enix likes to make money, they sure as hell wouldn't have made ff7remake part 1 if they weren't gonna turn a tidy profit.

At this point I'm fairly sure your just gonna continue bashing it because it's not exactly what you personally wanted, all I'm  suggesting is try it out before you choose to be vocal in your dislike

Story is just a bonus - if we are writing about an action game, a first person shooter or a strategy game.. Story is half the game if it's an RPG like FF7- You can have the best gameplay and a sucky story and no one will play the game through to the end and praise it. An RPG is really in need of a great story arc. That said, with bad gameplay and a great story i would say that some people would enjoy it more than vice versa- but that the bad gameplay would still land the game a bad review. An RPG, which FF7 is - really needs a great story and great gameplay. But unlike you i'd say the story is more important than the gameplay in an RPG game. I also disliked DoC and don't want that game to be the basis for any story in the remake.

You are also totally wrong about the art-style and the look of the models in the original. The art-style by Tetsuya Nomura were the actual basis for the battle-models of the game, and the field-models were reduced versions of the battle-models because the PSX were mistakenly thought to not be able to handle more. Something FF8 proved were not the case, but remember that FF7 had better graphics than ever before seen in video gaming when it released- it's a shame it didn't look as good as FF8. The reason the field models looked so bad was because of hardware limitations of the PSX, and they didn't know it could handle a game like FF8 back then.

Compare the Rufus battle-model with the art-style version of Rufus and you can clearly see that he looks the same- but not as gorgeous as the art-style due to the PSX limitations. If FF7 orignal were made today it would have probably had cell-shaded graphics like Dragonball FighterZ. Square-Enix didn't create Final Fantasy VII- it was made by Square-Soft- back then Square-Soft and Enix were two different companies. If memory serves me right then Enix had Akira Toriyama, the creator of Dragonball Z, making the art-style for their rival RPG Dragon Quest. To counter Enix and Dragon Quest Square-Soft had a different artist drawing the FF7 characters in similar style but different. It's not the Akira Toriyama-style- but it's certainly the style used by manga/anime-artists.

For example this Tifa had great proportions. The shirt ends just right under her stuff. Her stomach is perfectly drawn. There is nothing that doesn't look perfect on this picture. A realistic Tifa didn't need a change of proportions, just a realistic face and that's it. This art is great.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bd/82/7a/bd827a023e070c0ec4e522c3583f8807.jpg)

And to show Rufus:

(https://media.moddb.com/images/members/1/123/122021/profile/Turks.jpg)

Game:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/finalfantasy/images/5/5f/Rufus_enemyFFVII.png/revision/latest?cb=20120707160959)

One can clearly see that the hair etc is the same as on the official art- just a shame the game wasn't made now when it comes to it's graphics. Because this art-style is better than the Remake.



Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-03-20 23:57:43
Just want to chip in and say, yes, there was, of course, a creative process behind the original FF7. But the chibi models were not a blueprint for the design. It's not like they started the process and decided the design had to revolve around chibi models. That the game was eventually decided to be made in 3D was probably the biggest factor behind the chibi models. In part because Square, as a company, did not have the fully experience in making 3D games. So they had to, kinda simplify things. If I'm not mistaken they have even admitted this. Please, anyone correct me if I'm completely wrong here.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-21 00:43:16
Eh, Tifa still has a skirt but it's not a leather-skirt and it's not as wide as the old one. The stockings are an annoyance to my eyes. She doesn't have shorts thankfully, but the new skirt is less hot than the old. Now, i'm not playing to perv or whatever you wrote- but i enjoy my girls to be eye-candy while playing. I do always choose a hot female character over a male one when i play. I'd keep Tifa in my party because i like looking at her proportions. Change that and i'll use something cool instead- ruining my Tifa experience. Real life women are hard to deal with in this day and age. Sometimes hot models of female characters in games could be nice for people who don't have girlfriends and who like to be less bored while playing. I think that's what's great about the 90's- females in games were always as sexy as possible. That's how it should be done.

This is a take I've seen around a lot, from a lot of people.

Am I the only one that finds it weird?

Just like I found Final Fantasy XV's Cindy to be weird... Like... I mean... To each their own but damn... lol
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2020-03-22 11:34:34
This is a take I've seen around a lot, from a lot of people.

Am I the only one that finds it weird?

Just like I found Final Fantasy XV's Cindy to be weird... Like... I mean... To each their own but damn... lol

He's got the thirst. I quite like with the new Tifa design. And she still has big boobs without looking silly, still has the belly showing now with some ab detail and still has the barely there skirt.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: gjoerulv on 2020-03-23 10:32:11
Ok, I'm not an expert on the subject, but isn't she mini-skirt + socks a japanese schoolgirl thing for old jap pervs?
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-23 21:16:10
It's definitely a fetish. It even has a name (or a variant of it at least).

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2017-09-15/what-is-the-absolute-territory/.121207
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-24 03:15:50
No wonder aliens won't visit us and our own planet wants to exterminate us.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Tekkie.X on 2020-03-25 10:55:33
There are fetishes for many, many things. There's folk who have a sneeze fetish, uploading compilations of sneezing Twitch streamers to youtube.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-03-25 16:00:27
There are fetishes for many, many things. There's folk who have a sneeze fetish, uploading compilations of sneezing Twitch streamers to youtube.

lmao.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Mabinog on 2020-03-25 19:04:09
And in a free society there's nothing wrong with it.

Agreed.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-04-01 01:57:01
Just picked up my copy from eb in Australia, it is gonna be a long wait for my work day to finish
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ on 2020-04-01 10:29:32
In the US, butterfinger is doing a DLC giveaway.  So I just bought $10 worth of candy bars to get the 5 different DLCs :P
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-04-01 12:30:25
Side quests... So far so good, 2.5hrs in my only issue so far is a graphics thing Barrets beard looks funny in some of the cutscenes
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: -Ric- on 2020-04-01 13:44:14
Just picked up my copy from eb in Australia, it is gonna be a long wait for my work day to finish

PFFFT!

Screw you! But enjoy. But still screw you!
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2020-04-01 17:54:26
PFFFT!

Screw you! But enjoy. But still screw you!

Hehe, my friend is going to be waiting for a few months now that we are stuck in quarantine...
Just picked up my copy from eb in Australia, it is gonna be a long wait for my work day to finish
World release is on 10-04 isn't it? How come you got it so early? I hope that's not an April fools joke  :wink:
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: KaidenJames on 2020-04-01 19:17:35
In the US, butterfinger is doing a DLC giveaway.  So I just bought $10 worth of candy bars to get the 5 different DLCs :P

I did that and my receipt was denied. Last week I got two emails congratulating me on getting the DLC. I laughed, then installed the Tifa PS4 theme lol.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-04-01 22:05:10
Barret is slow, cloud is medium Tifa is fast like, fighting game fast
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Chrysalis on 2020-04-02 03:34:00
In the US, butterfinger is doing a DLC giveaway.  So I just bought $10 worth of candy bars to get the 5 different DLCs :P

This is awful news if these DLC are not available to buy, SE seem to have lost the plot if they slicing the game up to give away with exclusivity promotions.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Izban on 2020-04-02 03:57:02
None of it it likely to stay exclusive though, if it does then :( but I doubt it
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: Chrysalis on 2020-04-02 04:25:29
None of it it likely to stay exclusive though, if it does then :( but I doubt it

PSN exclusivity themes are notorious for not been released on the store.

Looks like you have to buy Batchelor's noodles to get this theme in the UK.
If that isnt enough exclusivity, you also have to buy it from Tesco, they have exclusive supply of the promotional packs.
What a great idea at a time of a food shortage.

Coming soon to an ebay near you.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2020-04-02 17:10:09
Plot twist: Corona virus was brought by SE so as more people would be able to enjoy playing the Re-make without worries. A simulation of the  '97 era for all the fans brought to you by the great Square Enix!  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvoXGPAUrSk
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: mr_nygren on 2020-04-03 17:07:54
I just got my ordinary copy that i pre-ordered in january. I do live in Sweden in Europe.

I haven't played it yet.. I also did watch the third trailer (final) just now and was pleased with lots of stuff in it. But it does spoil all the old stuff.
Title: Re: [FFVII-R] Discussion & News
Post by: MysticLord on 2020-04-08 07:50:35
In the US, butterfinger is doing a DLC giveaway.  So I just bought $10 worth of candy bars to get the 5 different DLCs :P
Living up to your username isn't worth the diabetes.