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Final Fantasy 8 => Other Mods => Releases => Topic started by: Percival on 2019-08-17 20:50:19

Title: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-17 20:50:19
I think it will be a shame if we won't be able to cry as we play our own games. - Nobuo Uematsu


If you can create an HD remaster of the graphics, can you create an HD remaster of the story? 

Yes, you can...and in honor of this game's 20th anniversary, that's exactly what I've done.

(https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/2701/images/3/3-1566069949-994602189.jpeg)

Final Fantasy 8: Succession

Download from the Nexus: Here (https://www.nexusmods.com/finalfantasy8/mods/3)

Direct download link: Here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/13hSf3zVaSE58hkQkpBIxdNkcmYblVOKt/view?usp=sharing)

- About FF8: Succession -
Spoiler: show

  This is not a gameplay mod, this is a story mod. This mod is designed to be the companion piece to my gameplay mod, Martial Law (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=18950.0).

  The goal of this mod was to enhance the overall quality of the game's dialogue, by improving on the English localization, and enriching the characterization of the main cast. Beyond that, this mod seeks to improve both the plot of the game and how that plot is told.

  This mod is not a fan fiction, or a way to insert speculative theories into the narrative. Instead, it is an attempt to enhance the story that already exists. The approach taken in making this mod has been that of a script doctor, and has resulted in a COMPREHENSIVE SCRIPT OVERHAUL. Any changes to the story have been made primarily for one of three reasons: to clarify the characters' motivations for their actions, to eliminate apparent inconsistencies in the plot, or to enhance the themes already present in the original story. The aim was to change as little as possible of the story, while changing as much as necessary to how that story is conveyed.

  With that said, almost every line of dialogue in the main story line has been altered to some extent. Most of the changes are small, but a few of the changes have been massive. The greatest change is in the effects of the Guardian Forces. Let me be clear: in this story, none of the characters HAVE AMNESIA. Many people will be happy to hear that, and I agree with them. But a change as large as that does have ripple effects in the story, and a number of other things have had to change as a result.

  Beyond removing amnesia, TIME COMPRESSION has also been removed. It is a plot contrivance that most will admit was poorly explained and poorly executed. But it is also more necessary to the main plot than the amnesia, and so removing it has had greater implications on the story as a whole. That means that a more comprehensive change to the plot was necessary to resolve this issue. I am very confident, however, that the alternate explanation I have provided is less contrived and more coherent, and also has a more personal and meaningful impact on the main characters.

  There are several other similar, but lesser changes that have been made, and each of these comes with its own ripple effects. I have done my best to weave all these changes together in a way that is both believable and compelling, while sacrificing as little of the original as possible.

  The integrity of the characters, both their characterization and disposition, has been maintained, for the most part. The characters subjected to the most change have been Seifer, Rinoa, and Headmaster Cid. Each of these characters have had their motivations refined. As a result, their presence in the story is more pronounced, and their effects on the main character carry more weight.

  My hopes for this mod is that it will improve the quality of the game, without taking away anything that made it good in the first place. For anyone who loved the original game, this should only make you love it more. And for those of you who took issue with the game due to its story, this mod is definitely a reason to give the game a second chance.

  This mod was inspired by the desire to have a story worthy of its OST.


(https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/2701/images/3/3-1566016371-1235448101.jpeg)

- Text Boxes -
Spoiler: show

   Another aspect of the game that this mod seeks to address was the placement of the text boxes. In the original, there were many times when the dialogue box obstructed something crucial to the scene. This was usually some action taken by the characters, or the faces of those speaking. This issue is present in nearly every scene in the game. It can be incredibly distracting, and makes it more challenging to connect with both the events taking place and the emotion of the characters.

  It is possible that this was not as much of a problem in the original Japanese, since the length of the text will ultimately determine how much of the screen it obstructs. It is very likely that none of the boxes were changed following any language translation. But along with edited text, most of the text boxes in this mod have been edited as well, solving most of these issues.

  This change is the sort of quality of life improvement that I believe makes this mod worth having if only just for that.

(https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/2701/images/3/3-1566353224-1006637322.jpeg)
Original                                                                Succession


- How to use this Mod -
Spoiler: show

  This mod requires the steam version of Final Fantasy 8. It may also work for the older PC version of the game, but I have not tried it for myself. To use this mod, simply copy the three files, field.fi, field.fl, and field.fs to your FF8 steam folder:

  data>lang en.

  Replace the original field files with the ones from the mod. And I always recommend making a backup. That's it!


(https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/2701/images/3/3-1566020159-1970794134.jpeg)

- Mod Progress -
Spoiler: show

This mod is now officially complete!  I have rewritten every major scene in the entire game. And while it may not meet all of my lofty hopes, I am very satisfied with the result.

The original script for this game is around 75,000+ words, and that only includes the main story. That is the size of a small novel. I have not had a chance to tabulate the total length of this rewrite, but I would not be surprised if it is well over 80,000 words.

With that said, I do not have a proofreader, and so there are bound to be some minor typos throughout the work, and I will likely release more than one small update to correct anything brought to my attention. It may not yet be perfect, but it is eminently readable, and is almost as error-free as most first edition books released today.


  For a sample of the many improvements made, check out the videos:

Youtube Playlist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z6vPOQ9KrA&list=PLziO36N4Wwk-RuxX1YpBvS8Ccacv7FXHg)


- A Word to Other Modders -
Spoiler: show

  If you have already played through this game multiple times, like me, and the original narrative is becoming stale, this is definitely the mod for you. It will provide you with an interesting and refreshing take on a story already familiar to you.

  If your goal is speed, and you tend to mash through the text as fast as possible to get to the battles, then this mod is definitely not for you. Due to the many changes in dialogue, the script is at least 10% longer than the original in most places, and will take a bit more time to get through. (Though I would still recommend experiencing it just once.)

  The changes in this mod are no longer 100% text only. I have taken the risk of breaking my own rule to create a few changes to the musical directing in the game. There are currently less than a dozen moments in the story where I have replaced the original track that played with one I considered to be more appropriate for that scene. These tracks are from the OST, they are just a different song from the original in that scene. If my instincts on these changes are correct, then very few people will notice, and even the most die-hard fan will not disagree.


- Tools used -

Deling - by myst6re

(https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/2701/images/3/3-1566019375-113144278.jpeg)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2019-08-18 08:48:03
Honestly, I prefer the original...
Making some corrections is one thing. Changing the story is another. Ok... But in your video you change how character personalities roll out. Squall was the ailent type, and seifer always insults zell. Seing that changed is not very friendly to the fans...
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-18 16:01:08
  No worries, man. There are a lot of fans who prefer the original gameplay or graphics, too. As with any mod, I appreciate the feedback. And it is still a work in progress.

  After playing the game so many times myself, I was just looking to create a more nuanced experience. Squall still maintains his personality, but in a manner that better suits a young man with the potential to lead an army.

  Seifer is definitely the one who’s been altered the most. He has a greater sense of superiority and indifference, rather than pettiness. He insults both Zell and Squall. He just says it to Quistis. He even threatens Zell with violence if he doesn't follow his orders. My goal was to make him as intimidating in the story, as gameplay mods have made him in battle.

What did you think of the video of the inauguration dance with Rinoa and Quistis?
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2019-08-18 19:43:35
Some parts I liked, like reporting quistsis for flirting with a student. It goes in character with squall and it's funny.
The whole game develops towards friendship between the students, even Seifer. Throwing teen insults at everyone fills his role. Superiority and indifference does not.
You can change a lot in the game dialogs developing the characters further, but without breaking their roles in the story.
Removing amnesia is not a bad concept, but you will need a huge plot change for the trabia scenes. It's sort of the game story twist.
It's a shame I don't have the time now to test the mod. When it develops further perhaps I'll find some time to do so. Also, I hope you get some proper feedback to give ideas.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-18 22:42:12
Some parts I liked, like reporting quistsis for flirting with a student. It goes in character with squall and it's funny.
  Thank you very much!

The whole game develops towards friendship between the students, even Seifer.
  I agree with you, but not with Seifer. Seifer is a very challenging character to write. He goes from not getting along with his peers, to willfully launching missiles at them, with the intent of killing everyone in Balamb Garden, including Raijin and Fujin. The only redemption he has is post-game, and we don’t have the opportunity to experience it.

Throwing teen insults at everyone fills his role. Superiority and indifference does not.
  You’re right. His given role is that of a schoolyard bully. Unfortunately, this contrasts very sharply with his apparent ability to lead an army of his own. I wanted to strike a balance between these two, with a character that was still petty and spiteful, but also had the grist to become a future general.

Superiority and indifference does not.
  Superiority and indifference are definitely aspects of Seifer's vanilla character, especially toward Zell. Remember his “Swatting at flies” comment? Not to mention him ditching his team, both during the mission, and afterward with the car.

Removing amnesia is not a bad concept, but you will need a huge plot change for the trabia scenes. It's sort of the game story twist.
  Trust me, I am well aware of this. I’ve already finished rewriting that scene. It took more than a month…

  I really do value the feedback, and will continue to make tweaks for a future update. I have already finished the entire story, every single scene, up until the end of disc 2. That’s well over half the game in terms of story.

  I am not interested in forcing my mod to become anyone’s new head-cannon or anything. If you do ever play it, let me know. After all, isn’t that what this forum is for?
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-18 22:45:18
@eXistenZe

Also, you never gave your opinion on what I really wanted to know…textbox placement!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2019-08-19 12:02:14
Can you make a screenshot comparison and add it to the main post? It's easier to see that way. Story is easy to memorise, but text placement is not.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-19 12:32:07
Also good feedback. Will do!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-19 12:35:08
I am also in the process of making more sample videos to highlight the extent of the mod.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2019-08-19 16:06:19
Nice changes in the third video. Those "I am..."
But confusing as hell. Edea model is actually ultimecia in that stage, so knowing Seifer should not happen. It's the first time she sees him. I don't think ultimecia has access to edea's memories, or at least it's not obvious in the original game.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: gunner_1207 on 2019-08-19 21:35:31
Nice changes in the third video. Those "I am..."
But confusing as hell. Edea model is actually ultimecia in that stage, so knowing Seifer should not happen. It's the first time she sees him. I don't think ultimecia has access to edea's memories, or at least it's not obvious in the original game.
i gotta agree i thought the exact same while watching that 3rd vid, its ultimecia at that stage she doesn't know him.
but man your work is magnificent very well done
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-20 02:49:13
  Hey, I’m glad you guys noticed that fact!

  And you’re right, eXistenZe, it’s not obvious at all in the original, which can create issues with establishing proper character motivation.

  This is related to the trickle-down effect of removing the amnesia. All of the characters’ backstories and motivations have been fleshed out, as well as some other aspects of the plot. This is all in an attempt to bring harmony to parts of the story that otherwise do not work well together.

  I would go into more detail, but it would take longer than one post. It really is a better conversation to have after you have played through disc 2. And honestly, probably a good chunk of disc 3. It is also directly connected to the meaning behind the name of the mod: Succession.

  And you might consider those details to be “spoilers”.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-08-20 03:12:10
  Also, it is important to note that this mod makes changes to the original story. Most are small, and a very few are large. The good thing about this is that I believe that all of these changes are quality, and have good reasons behind them. The bad thing about that is that anyone well aware of the original will invariably have to let go of their prior assumptions based on the original.

  As I said in the description, it would be better if you thought of it like an adaptation, like from a book to a movie. Everyone knows that Robert Downey Jr.’s depiction of Tony Stark is different from his depiction in the comics. But he handles his interpretation with respect for the original. And no one minds.

 Because he is just that damn good.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: greator on 2019-09-06 19:14:25
I like the original story, but I played them like more then 10 times already. I wish we can get the original Japanese translation which has a bit different dialog then the english one.
Looking forward to this project, I'll wait until all the discs is finished.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: miklol on 2019-09-08 20:20:16
Hi,
I've watched all 5 snippets from YouTube, and loved everything I saw apart from one character.
I'll hold on the feedback until I've played a decent chunk of your mod, to avoid making a terrible misjudgment ^^
I'm really look forward to trying the game with your changes.

At any rate, I think the effort you're going for is an incredible show of love for the game. My only concern would be for you to get sidetracked and never finish ; or for you to get burnt-out and lose motivation to fix the little flaws that might remain.

So, I hope your motivation's intact ; I think this task is worth every effort ; and I'll be in touch! :)

@greator : you can pick up the Japanese text in the new Remastered release. It's a bit out of my level for now, but you might enjoy it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Foghart on 2019-09-09 01:42:25
Just finished watching your YT videos and I must say, its a new and nice touch to the story. You tried to keep their character on check and fixed some few plot holes (no one talked about you assassinating NORG after the fight in the original, every hatted staff just disappeared). After the dance Quistis sounded a little too needy imo, but it was fine in the end. The stage scene with Seifer was pretty good, it increased the suspence about who was the sorceress and whats her connection with the rest.
Keep up the good work, and when the modders find a way to mod the Remaster, try converting it if you like!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-09-10 17:50:02
@miklol:  Thanks!  I really appreciate that!

The only reason not to finish it would have been if no one was interested. I already have fairly comprehensive notes for the rest of the game. As long as I know people like it, I will definitely finish.

And it will still be a while before I get any feedback from anyone who has completed the mod up until the end of disc 2.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-09-10 18:20:41
Just finished watching your YT videos and I must say, its a new and nice touch to the story. You tried to keep their character on check and fixed some few plot holes (no one talked about you assassinating NORG after the fight in the original, every hatted staff just disappeared).

Yes!  There were many moments in the game that felt disconnected due to a lack of thorough exposition. I wanted to make sure that the characters spoke about events in a way that heightened the players sense of the characters' level of investment in what was happening.

I also wanted to provide the player with a good explanation for why it was happening.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-09-10 18:23:03
After the dance Quistis sounded a little too needy imo, but it was fine in the end.
Yup. That was intentional.
I wanted to give the impression that she was Squall’s longstanding friend, and she was also interested in Squall, regardless of their rank. What I wanted to avoid was the sense that she was using her position as an instructor to prey on Squall, which is a valid (but not very charitable) way of interpreting the original.

If she is asking him, rather than ordering, it assists in lowering the barrier of rank that exists between them. And this is further developed in the next scene when she explains to him that she will no longer be an instructor.

Of course, I also wanted to give a stronger impression that Quistis felt threatened, and perhaps a little helpless, by the thought of Squall being attracted to some new girl (Rinoa). And she is absolutely justified in feeling this way, based on how the story unfolds.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: FatherMcKenzie on 2019-09-12 06:04:19
Very proud, thank you for this mod. I've been waiting for a dedicated script overhaul for years and this looks wonderful so far. FF8 is a terrific game with a terrific story, but it desperately needed to rid itself of some of the annoying dialogue. I think you've solved that issue. Can't wait for the finished product. Cheers!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-09-14 05:53:14
@FatherMcKenzie Thank you for the encouragement!  I hope you enjoy the mod.

Yes, whenever the modding tool are available for the Remaster, I will definitely make a compatible version of both my mods. But at this point, I have no idea how long that will be.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: gunner_1207 on 2019-09-22 20:57:43
Yo Percival just itching to try this , are your vids on youtube an indication of your progress ? i know i'm gonna love it but i wanna do it all, not stop after a couple of discs,just curious is all waiting patiently :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-09-25 06:51:56
  The videos are only a small sample of the progress I have made. I have already edited, to some extent, EVERY major scene in the game up until the very last scene of disc 2. Unless there is something major I have overlooked, I am considering disc 1 and 2 to be completely finished, at least to the level of a good second draft.

  So far, I have done very little editing of anything beyond disc 2. But I have fairly extensive notes, and a good grasp on the changes I want to implement.

  The only exception to this is the Laguna sequences, which I am currently working on. Once I have finished those, I will continue again with disc 3.

  I don’t currently know how long it will take, but if I want to ensure that the latter half is held to the same standard as the former, I won’t try to rush myself. I wouldn’t expect the mod to be completed earlier than 3 to 4 months from now.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-09-25 07:00:33
  By the way, Gunner. I appreciate the enthusiasm!

  Also, to be honest, I was kinda hoping to get some feedback from people who have finished the current version of the mod before I made too much progress toward completion. That would give me the only real opportunity to change any potentially major error someone else might notice before it was too late.

  But I understand that a devoted crew of play-testers is an unreasonable expectation for such a niche mod.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: gunner_1207 on 2019-09-25 20:31:06
Dude 3-4 months ,that's a pretty damn respectable target . hmm i'm open to trying what you have done so far, of course i am.
My only concern is that i have edited alot with tools doomtrain, quezacotl i don't wanna lose that, i know i can back-up. Does your mod over-right the main f.s that doomtrain uses or change something else inside , that would leave my modifications intact so i can play your mod with my game changes
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-09-26 06:03:29
Does your mod over-right the main f.s that doomtrain uses or change something else inside , that would leave my modifications intact so i can play your mod with my game changes.
Nope. It doesn't.

I specifically wanted this mod to only edit the field.fs file. That way it could be as independent as possible from any gameplay mods.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: gunner_1207 on 2019-09-26 20:57:26
ok man anything in particular you want thoughts on?, or should i just run with it an see, eyes an ears open with my notepad? lol
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-09-27 08:22:28
Wow!  I really appreciate the enthusiasm!

I assume you would rather not go that far. But if anything stands out to you, typos, poor phrasing, or something that you simply don’t like, go ahead and screenshot it and post it here. If there is anything you particularly love, or anything you think of that might be an improvement, feel free to bring it up, the same way you would for a gameplay mod. But please remember to use the spoiler feature whenever pertinent.

I am mainly hoping that someone will notice if there is anything that I have overlooked, like a major plot hole, a contradiction in the narrative, or a scene that lacks the emotional appeal that it ought to have. (Though I am by no means expecting anyone to do this for me.)

I only ask that you keep in mind that I have worked on this for a long time, and I have thorough reasoning behind most of the decisions I have made. It may be better to avoid most story or character feedback until after you complete disc 2, to make sure that you have proper context.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: gunner_1207 on 2019-09-27 21:06:56
ok percival understood , i will dive in and let you know ,i agree with doing until disk 2 so i will do that  ;D
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Rikku on 2019-10-12 18:17:59
Hi everyone !!!

I just discovered this mod and i want to try it !!! congratulations.

I have two questions.
Is this mod finished yet ? The readme says it last until disk 2.

And, and more important, is this compatible with the RAGNAROK mod ???

It will be awesome if it is possible to complete the game with the two mods
Thanks.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2019-10-14 01:06:59
This is absolutely amazing Percival! You're doing gods work lmao... I definitely want to see this story mod come to v1.0+ fruition! Along with the Ragnarok mod, Lunatic Pandora mod pack, and other possible mods added. The "FFVIII remaster" would be closer to perfection. Refining and adding onto the original story is a great idea imo. Worthy of a true remaster.
Once v1.0 comes out in the future (In 2020 i'd assume), you can always go back and fix/change things if needed.
I did watch a few play through videos of the mod, and i noticed some typos, wrong upper/lower cases used, certain words being spelled wrong, etc. but i'm sure you'll fix those eventually. :)
I can't imagine though of how much you've written for the game, must of taken a lot of effort and time! :P
Anyways, just wanted to let you know to keep up the great work and to never feel discouraged! I'm pretty sure there's more people interested in it than you think, because even i didn't want to create a qhimm account just to try and speak my mind about the subject at hand. But here i am, creating an account just to let you know how i personally feel about what you're trying to accomplish for FFVIII. I'll be silently keeping track as time goes on, so i'm hoping to see you at the finish line Percival! :D
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-10-17 05:54:14
I have two questions.
Is this mod finished yet ? The readme says it last until disk 2.
Not yet. So far, the mod only includes changes up until the end of disc 2, excluding the Laguna sequences. I have only just begun editing the scenes with Laguna. After that, I will begin with disc 3.

And, and more important, is this compatible with the RAGNAROK mod ???
That is a great question! And the answer is…sort of.

Ragnarok modifies many of the game files, including the field.fs, which contains all the game dialogue. This is also the file that contains the computer scripting for any of the ‘scripted’ encounters, the extra boss battles and such.

So currently, if you want to use both mods together, you will not be able to experience any of the extra encounters, or any changes to the draw points. But you still have all the other benefits of Ragnarok. That’s how my own game is currently set up.

I am very interested in creating a compatibility version of both Succession and Martial Law, to be used with Ragnarok, but it will require some work. And for now, I am still focusing on completing the second half of Succession.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: FatherMcKenzie on 2019-10-28 07:20:31
I played through your mod until the end of Disc 2. Overall, I'm extremely impressed. This mod breathes new life into the game, and I honestly feel like it's 1999 and I'm playing the game for the first time. This is the script that should have came with the game. Thank you for your hard work, I hope more people experience it. Can't wait for the finished product. Here's my notes I took while playing:

Some of the things I liked:
Spoiler: show

-Eliminating amnesia: That was a bad plot device that I'm glad is gone
-Squall is less of a weirdo and less of a pushover. He's more confident and logical, less of a mindless overdramatic. His dialogue is vastly improved and is a more well-developed character now. His outbursts seem more justified, not just emo.
-Squall now has a raison d'être: Preventing another war that will create more orphans like himself. He’s not aimlessly drifting anymore like “a helpless puppet being manipulated in some major scheme”
-“...Whatever” is largely gone. It was a bad translation to begin with and skewed the original writers’ intention for Squall
-Irvine's hesitancy in the Deling plot is due to him recognizing Matron (he's not a chicken like in the original script)
-Seifer recognized Matron too and was driven by the instinct to protect her. Also, Seifer's intentions are political and righteous, not just wanting to be some lame "sorceress' knight."
-Edea's evilness is more poetic. Her dialogue is vastly improved!
-Rinoa's recognition of her sorceress powers all along. This gave her character a lot more depth and even filled some plot holes (like how she was able to cling to a sheer cliff for an hour as the Gardens were colliding)
-Seifer tries to turn Squall to the "dark side" and take over Balamb for the Sorceress
-I like the new direction with Cid. He's more driven and confident. His relationship/mentorship with Squall is more dynamic now.
-Injection of FF8 lore... Gardens made from Centra ruins. The more of this, the better!


Some things that I would suggest changing/improving:
Spoiler: show

-Zell could still could use a little less "Jeff Spicoli" vibe ("Yo!", "WOAH!!", "Sooo cool!", "Yeahh, baby!"). His character is so one-dimensional and if he could break out of this 90s skater mold, he might be a little more interesting character
-Fujin/Raijin were always annoying and you changed some of their dialogue for the better (filling in some of the gaps, the Sorceress telling them to look for Lunatic Pandora.) However, the way they talk is something I would consider modifying. "Ya Know" and the "ALL CAPS" thing never made any sense to me and seemed like a bad decision by the translators. (I’m not fluent in Japanese, but I know that Raijin’s “YA KNOW” is an imperfect translation of “Desu-yo,” which is not so easily translated since it implies a subtle assertion of fact. “Desu-yo” is more subtle than the obnoxious “ya know” in English. In English, it sounds completely weird and unnatural.) This could be an opportunity to change them for the better.
-I wish the Squall/Quisty romantic tension could have been developed a little more. We were getting somewhere with the post-dance exchange
-I know you didn't do anything with Laguna yet, but I hope you can improve some of his lame dialogue
-"Your breath stinks!" I was hoping you could change this lame insult Squall delivers to his torturers

Not much else!


TYPOs (in bold):
Spoiler: show

-"We anticipate a battle as soon as we disembark. Prepared yourselves." (Xu, Dollet briefing)
-"This IS the order. We can't just let reinforments go unchecked through the city" ("dog training" scene)
-"And that giant machine of their's just upset a whole nest of Anacondaurs." (Dollet soldier) no apostrophe needed
"I've been sent with a messenge for the leader of Squad B." (right after Selphie somersault)
-"Rinoa. Rinoa Heartily" (Rinoa introducing herself)
-"We we are taught many things like art, music, and dancing, along with real skills like strategy and combat." (after Rinoa intro)
-"Rinoa*! Something's wrong!" (before Gerogero battle) Rinoa's name is hardcoded and doesn't use a custom name.
-"Rinoa*, what else do you need us to do?" (Selphie, at Forest Fox's house) Rinoa's name is hardcoded
-"...isolate it's location" (convo b/w Galbadian soldiers in Timber) shouldn't be an apostrophe
-"We'll have to make a full report when we return to the Balamb" (after second Laguna dream) unnecessary "the"
-"When you decided to come with us, I told you that we couldn't garantee your safety." (right before meeting General Caraway)
-"I'm Rinoa* Caraway... Daughter of General Caraway" (confronting Edea) Rinoa is hardcoded
-"We will assend" (during Edea's Deling City speech)
-"Your a sorceress..." (Right after defeating Seifer)
-"Why-have-you-siding-with-HIM?!" (NORG)
-"At least we didn't loose Balamb" (Cheering up Selphie in the Quad after reuniting at FH)
-"You alway want to keep your skills sharp." (Quistis, at the FH concert prep)
-"If your trying to make a joke, it's not funny" (right after Rinoa tells Squall she's a sorceress)
-"And what what Raijin said is even more concerning." (Quistis, right after defeating Fujin/Raijin in Balamb)
-"///Selphie "Zell! It's good luck!" (during B-Ball court scene)
-"You still have the brazeness to fight?" (Before Edea battle)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-11-08 19:32:27
@FatherMcKenzie
Wow! Thank you so much!! This is incredibly valuable feedback. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate it!

I think you and I are on the same wavelength, and I am very glad you like the changes I’ve made. The typos are very helpful, and I will fix them ASAP. And I am particularly glad that you apparently changed Rinoa's name. I never change their names, and all of those instances would have been very hard to find.

In regards to potential improvements:
Spoiler: show

-Zell could still could use a little less "Jeff Spicoli" vibe ("Yo!", "WOAH!!", "Sooo cool!", "Yeahh, baby!"). His character is so one-dimensional and if he could break out of this 90s skater mold, he might be a little more interesting character
I see what you’re saying about Zell. With him, as with all the characters, I am always on the fence between trying to improve him, and trying to retain the core of who he originally was. As of yet, I don’t think I have a strong vision for who he is beyond what the vanilla script presented to us.

If you think that his dialogue could use improvement, I will definitely see what I can do!


-Fujin/Raijin were always annoying and you changed some of their dialogue for the better (filling in some of the gaps, the Sorceress telling them to look for Lunatic Pandora.) However, the way they talk is something I would consider modifying. "Ya Know" and the "ALL CAPS" thing never made any sense to me and seemed like a bad decision by the translators. (I’m not fluent in Japanese, but I know that Raijin’s “YA KNOW” is an imperfect translation of “Desu-yo,” which is not so easily translated since it implies a subtle assertion of fact. “Desu-yo” is more subtle than the obnoxious “ya know” in English. In English, it sounds completely weird and unnatural.) This could be an opportunity to change them for the better.
I have also always taken issue with Fujin and Raijin. But I was very cautious about changing speech patterns. (Including NORG’s hyphenated diction) I was concerned that I might end up destroying something unique about a character for no good reason.

I have no problem eliminating the ‘ALL CAPS’ for Fujin, but I think any changes to her speech patterns would require a fundamental change in her character. And I want to stay clear of anything like that without a very good reason.

For Raijin, I’ve thought about changing his line to something like “Right?” or “Huh?”. I’m not a Japanese speaker, but I think the real problem isn’t what he says, it’s how poorly written his dialogue is in general. His catch phrase is meant to be a cheap substitute for strong characterization, and I guess it succeeds at that. I may just tone down how many times he uses the line, and make sure that when he does use it, that it feels natural.

Side note:
Did you happen to catch the dialogue from the three students in the cafeteria? I edited all of their dialogue, too. They now provide more in-depth contextual commentary at 4 different points in the game. Their conversation at the start of the game provides a bit of backstory for Raijin and Fujin.

I wasn’t sure if that dialogue would be too obscure, and if it would be missed by a lot of people. But I had hoped it might help justify some of their behavior throughout the game. Let me know what you think!


-I wish the Squall/Quisty romantic tension could have been developed a little more. We were getting somewhere with the post-dance exchange
I agree. And all I can say is, I tried.

If I were actually writing a fanfiction, Quistis would be the love interest, or at least a contender, like Tifa/Aerith. I think that I speak for a lot of people when I say that her character had the greatest potential, and it was completely squandered. Her development was MIA for the entire game after disc 1. I have looked for every opportunity the game allows to provide her with depth. Unfortunately, there are almost no scenes where she speaks directly with Squall after the post-dance exchange. The game actively rejects the notion of any further romantic tension. All setup, no payoff…

Perhaps I could review her dialogue along with Zell’s, and see what I can do. I might be able squeeze in several flirtatious asides. They would most likely be one-way, though. It’s a far cry from what I would like, but it might be better than nothing.

Did you like her lines in the Flashback/Basketball Court scene? It’s about the best I could do to flesh her out later in the game.


-I know you didn't do anything with Laguna yet, but I hope you can improve some of his lame dialogue
Laguna sequences are coming! I have just finished my first draft of those scenes, and I like what I have so far.

-"Your breath stinks!" I was hoping you could change this lame insult Squall delivers to his torturers
You’re right. That line is juvenile. I decided to keep the lines about the SeeDs/flowers as they were. I think that’s pretty funny, and I always choose that option. But I should find a better insult for the other choice.


Also, any time you see a “///” before a character’s name, that is a note that I have made to isolate any dialogue that I thought was unused by the game. (There is a fair amount of this.) If you or anyone else sees that, it may be a typo on my part. Or it may be that you have created a rare combination of requirements that I am not aware of.

And, one question. Did you only play through the concert scene with the "Eyes on Me" song? Because you might be interested to know that I rewrote the scenes for both songs, and the Irish Jig scene has far more dialogue.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: FatherMcKenzie on 2019-11-10 01:15:07
It was a pleasure! I'll playthrough again as soon as you have another revision.

To your points:
Spoiler: show
I have also always taken issue with Fujin and Raijin. But I was very cautious about changing speech patterns. (Including NORG’s hyphenated diction) I was concerned that I might end up destroying something unique about a character for no good reason.

I have no problem eliminating the ‘ALL CAPS’ for Fujin, but I think any changes to her speech patterns would require a fundamental change in her character. And I want to stay clear of anything like that without a very good reason.

For Raijin, I’ve thought about changing his line to something like “Right?” or “Huh?”. I’m not a Japanese speaker, but I think the real problem isn’t what he says, it’s how poorly written his dialogue is in general. His catch phrase is meant to be a cheap substitute for strong characterization, and I guess it succeeds at that. I may just tone down how many times he uses the line, and make sure that when he does use it, that it feels natural.

For Raijin, I'd agree that the issue is that his dialogue is poorly written, but you're on the right track to improving it. As for Fujin, I wouldn't recommend any wholesale change either except for the All Caps styling. In the Japanese version, Fujin is soft-spoken and speaks in one word all-Kanji sentences, so I'm not sure why this would translate into what seems like a character who screams every line of dialogue??

Either way, they're still minor characters and it's not worth overthinking I suppose.

Side note:
Did you happen to catch the dialogue from the three students in the cafeteria? I edited all of their dialogue, too. They now provide more in-depth contextual commentary at 4 different points in the game. Their conversation at the start of the game provides a bit of backstory for Raijin and Fujin.

I wasn’t sure if that dialogue would be too obscure, and if it would be missed by a lot of people. But I had hoped it might help justify some of their behavior throughout the game. Let me know what you think!

Missed that part! I didn't take my time speaking with a lot of NPCs, but I will on the next playthrough. Your attention to detail is amazing!

If I were actually writing a fanfiction, Quistis would be the love interest, or at least a contender, like Tifa/Aerith. I think that I speak for a lot of people when I say that her character had the greatest potential, and it was completely squandered. Her development was MIA for the entire game after disc 1. I have looked for every opportunity the game allows to provide her with depth. Unfortunately, there are almost no scenes where she speaks directly with Squall after the post-dance exchange. The game actively rejects the notion of any further romantic tension. All setup, no payoff…

Perhaps I could review her dialogue along with Zell’s, and see what I can do. I might be able squeeze in several flirtatious asides. They would most likely be one-way, though. It’s a far cry from what I would like, but it might be better than nothing.

Did you like her lines in the Flashback/Basketball Court scene? It’s about the best I could do to flesh her out later in the game.

I see what you're saying about Quistis. There isn't much opportunity to develop her as a character. I think the Zell/Quistis angle might be interesting, but only if Zell is modified a bit. As it stands, I'd say Zell is way to immature for Quistis and I wouldn't believe that she would go for an dimwit like him.

You handled the basketball scene very well. I'm glad you got rid of the "I thought it was love, but it was my feelings as a big sister" angle.
 
And, one question. Did you only play through the concert scene with the "Eyes on Me" song? Because you might be interested to know that I rewrote the scenes for both songs, and the Irish Jig scene has far more dialogue.

I only did the "Eyes on Me" version. I didn't know the game offered different dialogue! I'll try the Jig next time.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2019-11-10 16:21:07
I think the Zell/Quistis angle might be interesting, but only if Zell is modified a bit. As it stands, I'd say Zell is way to immature for Quistis and I wouldn't believe that she would go for an dimwit like him.
I apologize. I didn’t mean to imply that I would try to develop a relationship between Quistis and Zell. I only meant that I would review Quistis’ dialogue in the same way that I would review Zell’s, to see if improvements could be made.

It’s possible that I could add one or two flirtatious lines (aimed at Squall) that would remind us that Quistis is still interested in him. It wouldn’t lead to anything particularly meaningful, as Squall will never be able to discuss her feelings for him in a full scene, but it might serve to maintain some sort of romantic tension, as long as it isn’t overdone, and doesn't turn into her defining characteristic.


I only did the "Eyes on Me" version. I didn't know the game offered different dialogue! I'll try the Jig next time.
There are technically 4 options for the Concert scene, and the way to access them is unnecessarily complicated. There are 2 different songs to choose from, as well as 2 different options if you mix them up. The outcomes are determined primarily by the instruments you choose, and to a lesser extent, who is playing them.

1 Complete “Eyes on Me”
2 Complete Irish Jig
3 Partial “Eyes on Me”
4 Partial Irish Jig

Options 1 & 3 are very similar to each other, and options 2 & 4 are 100% unique. As of yet, I have rewritten 1, 2, and 3, but not 4. I was kind of banking on people having had previous experience with the game, and intentionally choosing 1 or 2. It is more challenging to intentionally get either 3 or 4, and I hoped people would avoid it. I eventually want to rewrite 4, but it is way down on my list of priorities.

Also, I may be the exception, but in the vanilla game, option 4 is actually my favorite. Generally, option 1, 3 and 4 are all bad outcomes that result in Rinoa getting upset and running away. Option 2 is the “good” outcome that results in Rinoa sticking around. In my rewrites, I’ve maintained this tonal difference. But option 4 will require a bit of a unique approach, and I haven’t decided how to handle it, yet.

I may put together a compilation video to highlight the different options in the original, as I don’t yet see it anywhere online.

And, if you want more info on the ridiculous concert mechanics, I’m sure there is a comprehensive guide somewhere. Or you could just ask me, I guess.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-01-03 11:33:36
How's the story mod coming along? :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Lunareste on 2020-01-06 00:28:28
Nice changes in the third video. Those "I am..."
But confusing as hell. Edea model is actually ultimecia in that stage, so knowing Seifer should not happen. It's the first time she sees him. I don't think ultimecia has access to edea's memories, or at least it's not obvious in the original game.

Since we know history is written forward to Ultimecia's time and she is aware of the events of the game before they happen, and given that she is aware who Squall is (Battle of the Gardens, "So you're the SeeD destined to defeat me"), don't you think she would also know who Seifer is? From Ultimecia's point of view, Seifer is the one destined to follow her, mobilize Galbadia Garden and raise Lunatic Pandora in her war against the past.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-01-24 06:14:50
@HeavensFury

Hey!  I'm glad you asked. The holiday season set me back more than I would have liked, with the types of things you would imagine. But I have still made significant progress, and I am getting ready to post a brief progress update, as well as a few more video clips!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-01-24 06:23:44
Since we know history is written forward to Ultimecia's time and she is aware of the events of the game before they happen, and given that she is aware who Squall is (Battle of the Gardens, "So you're the SeeD destined to defeat me"), don't you think she would also know who Seifer is? From Ultimecia's point of view, Seifer is the one destined to follow her, mobilize Galbadia Garden and raise Lunatic Pandora in her war against the past.
I am inclined to agree with you, even though the vanilla game doesn't explicitly give us that information. But I bypassed the whole issue with the way I approached Edea's possession, and the character of Ultimecia.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: circle on 2020-01-24 10:36:32
Hi Percival

Just posting to say that I've been keeping an eye on this mod and am greatly looking forward to playing it once it's finished. Good to hear that you're still making progress, please keep going!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-01-31 06:09:29
Thanks, circle! That's very encouraging.

I've just posted 2 new sample videos to my Youtube Playlist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z6vPOQ9KrA&list=PLziO36N4Wwk-RuxX1YpBvS8Ccacv7FXHg).
Check out clips 6 & 7.
And I have 2 more that will be on the way soon!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-02-01 06:57:58
Progress Update:

Hello, everyone!  Thank you so much for the encouragement and support. I am still working hard on this mod, and I have made some very substantial progress. Unfortunately, I greatly overestimated how much time I would be able to devote to this project during November and December. But I wanted to provide an update on my progress so far.

I have edited each scene on disc 3 up to and including the Squall and Rinoa scene on the bridge to Esthar. And I've completed the Laguna sequences, excluding the one in Esthar, which I will start very soon.

I've also taken the time to make some changes in earlier scenes, based on feedback that I have received from some of you. And I have refined a little dialogue in disc 1 & 2 as I saw the need.

I won't be providing an update for download in the immediate future, because there are too many scenes currently in an unfinished state. But in the meantime, I have added some sample videos to my playlist in the initial post. And I will be posting more videos in the near future.

I am still excited about this project, and I’m eager to see it completed!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Lunareste on 2020-02-08 17:33:14
I don't mean to offer harsh criticism here because I greatly enjoy the enhancements you've made so far, but I completely disagree with the dialogue you've given Edea during the inauguration speech. Please allow me to explain why.

To begin with, I found this old post on GameFAQs (https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/197343-final-fantasy-viii/43179495) that highlights the translation errors and styles used in the English and Japanese dialogue. I went searching for Edea's original English speech because I felt that it was a powerful tool to help the player to understand the plot of the game once they learn that Ultimecia is ultimately behind them. It is important to remember that the reason that she wants to achieve Time Compression is because the events of the game are going to be recorded into history, and the people of the future will persecute sorceresses as they await her arrival to try and destroy time itself. Your changes make it seem like she's offering purpose or leadership to the citizens of the country, but in reality she hates these people and condemns them for hailing her ascension despite hunting and prosecuting sorceresses for many generations into the future in which she is born.

This is our first glimpse into the mind of Ultimecia herself, veiled behind the face of Edea. Aside from some easily fixed grammar issues, I think your changes come off a bit as a Rita Repulsa type monologue; clearly she's saying she's evil, but what is the point of her conveying this? While I do feel like your speech is actually better than the English translation in terms of style because it's her presentation is more abstract, the dialogue itself is lacking intent and I think that the message Ultimecia delivers through Edea should more subtly reflect Ultimecia's mysterious persona and her ultimate plan.

That being said, I know this is your project and I appreciate the hard work you've put into improving the game in an area where it's direly needed.


Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-02-18 17:16:48
Hey Lunareste!

Thank you so much for the feedback!  I don’t consider any criticism to be harsh, as long as it isn’t mean-spirited.

Regarding the original Japanese translation, I have read it many times, and I used it as an initial reference before creating my rewrite.

It is important to remember that the reason that she wants to achieve Time Compression is because the events of the game are going to be recorded into history, and the people of the future will persecute sorceresses as they await her arrival to try and destroy time itself.

Let me first say that I like this idea, and I appreciate that you brought it up. If this idea, and others like it, had been explored, or woven into the narrative throughout the story, I probably would have never had a desire to make this mod.

The problem is that this is not what the original text is saying. And this is one of the most common criticisms of the story, that Ultimecia has no clear motivation. (That’s a major reason why fans developed the ‘Rinoa is Ultimecia’ theory in the first place). 

The original text is referencing classical interpretations of witches that we are familiar with in our world. And the assumption is that the people in Deling have similar preconceptions and biases against witches (or ‘sorceresses’). Why would Ultimecia be referencing future events that her current audience would have no knowledge or understanding of? Instead, she is referencing their past, and things the audience does understand and relate to.

But, if the people have this bias against witches, then the story has created a question: why do the people (including the president) support Edea as a leader now, despite such a bias? This is what my mod attempts to answer, primarily through the perspective of Seifer, but also through the explanation of the nature of sorceresses themselves.

And it is by this explanation of sorceresses that we come to a greater understanding of Ultimecia’s motivation. So if you’re looking for a deeper look into the mind and motivation of Ultimecia (or Edea), it is in other scenes, not this one.

The focus of this scene is to provide context for the events that are taking place in THIS scene. I attempted to clearly demonstrate how Edea is able to come to power, overthrow and murder the current president, and convince the people to love her for it.

Your changes make it seem like she's offering purpose or leadership to the citizens of the country...

...I think your changes come off a bit as a Rita Repulsa type monologue; clearly she's saying she's evil, but what is the point of her conveying this?

Please clarify, which is it?

And if it's both, then, to a certain extent, that's exactly what I intended. She isn't saying she is evil. She is saying the exact opposite. And the player is, of course, supposed to get the impression that she is. But the audience, however, (including people like Seifer) is being manipulated into supporting her. She is telling them what they want to hear, and they're buying it. That is the intent of the speech (and arguably most political speeches in general). And the reason for her poetic cadence is to imply that she is using a subtle form of coercive magic, and combining it with persuasive rhetoric to ‘cast a spell’ on the audience, so to speak.

I really did attempt to capture the spirit and intent of the original, while keeping the content of her speech practical and intelligible for a player on their first playthrough. In the original, she promised to lead the people into a fantasy of their own delusions. In mine, she makes fantastical promises, and her audience is deluded into following her.

Hopefully this helps you to better understand the perspective I’m taking with this mod!

Also, and I understand if this is too much of a stretch for you, but in the same way that I have written amnesia out of the story, I have also written Time Compression completely out of the story. This necessarily alters the view you had of Ultimecia’s past and motivation. It's something I have intended for a while, now, and for the final version of the mod, I’ll update the description to reflect that.

If this deviation is one step too far for you, I understand. I’ll be a little bummed, but I get it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Lunareste on 2020-02-19 05:23:03
No need to be bummed! I'll try having a more open mind to your interpretation in the future. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-03-26 14:57:46
Can't wait for the next update! Exciting AF! :-D
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: FFxStrife on 2020-03-28 21:26:09
I was looking for a fresh way to experience FFVIII again and this all sounds great. I'll be trying this out with your Martial Law mod in the future for sure, thanks!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Ashino on 2020-04-26 20:53:49
This is honestly such a good mod. I greatly appreciate you taking the time to improve this game in the way that you have. I hope you're doing well, and I'll be eagerly waiting for future updates!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-05-07 04:06:25
Hope all is well, friend. :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-05-10 11:36:18
  Hello, everyone!  I am very glad that you are all enjoying the mod. And once again, I greatly appreciate all of the support and encouragement.

  So far, the last six months haven’t been as productive as I would have liked, but nevertheless, I am excited about the quality of work I am producing. Regarding my progress, I’m currently moments away from beginning to edit the first scenes on the Ragnarok. Given that I am mostly writing in chronological order, that means I’m more than halfway through disc 3.

  I’ve resisted the urge to upload any updates. I think that releasing another incomplete version would only add unnecessary work to the process, as well as frustrate all of you with multiple editions, each with different potential errors.

  My plan is to avoid releasing anything more until I have a full second draft of the entire game, all the way through disc 4. At that point, any feedback you have would be in light of the mod in total. I'm also attempting to devote as much time to this project as I can spare, so as to not leave everyone waiting any longer than necessary.

  Thanks again!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: circle on 2020-05-17 16:15:37
glad to hear you're still working on this and are already part of the way through disc 3! still excited to play this once the first full version is completed
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Dark_Ansem on 2020-07-03 19:45:03
reporting quistis is mean lol
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-08-06 06:28:57
GO GO GO! lol :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Ashino on 2020-10-05 18:44:17
How's the mod coming along?
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-10-09 20:26:19
reporting quistis is mean lol
Yeah, I think it's great!

Once again, I was attempting to limit the perceived power disparity between the two of them. I want to do my best to prevent someone from interpreting Quistis' actions, as well as Squall's impression of her actions, as abusive or predatory, given that she is his teacher.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-10-09 20:27:14
How's the mod coming along?

Well, I am so glad you asked!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-10-09 20:44:04
(https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/2701/images/3/3-1602274934-2019728918.jpeg)

Big Progress update!

I have unofficially finished the mod all the way through disc 4!  I'm currently doing one final playthrough,
looking for mistakes, and making other small changes as needed.

I have put so much work into this mod, far more than I ever originally intended. But I believe that the
incredible result is worth all the effort. I am very satisfied with what I have been able to accomplish, and
I am convinced that all of you will be, too.

Also, I've posted several more sample videos, including one of my favorites of Laguna. Check it out!
Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_v2F7GgowQ).

And two videos with my re-imagining of the Myth of Hyne.
Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFAUDpeaBn8). And Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zUQcH6L-3s).

The next update that I post will be version 1.0.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-10-11 01:23:03
Holy crap! IT'S HAPPENING! PogChamp lol
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-10-11 01:28:29
Hopefully the community can help you with typo's, feedback, or any other small tweaks after version 1.0 releases! Try to take some of the weight off of your shoulders after completing such a huge task/accomplishment. :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-10-11 01:33:11
This might go down as the REAL remaster for the storyline itself. A reimagining. Maybe what it should have been to begin with. :D
It might be an alternative to the original storyline, but i feel like this version has so much more beef to it. More side-lore to enjoy as well!
You ever thought about adding hidden/secret/easter egg stuff in it? :P
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-10-11 01:36:09
Also, will this be compatible with other mods?! Like Ragnarok (gameplay) and Lunatic Pandora (graphics)?
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Ashino on 2020-10-15 21:31:40
Having followed your mod for the past few months, I have to say that I'm very impressed by your work. I can imagine that rewriting a game such as FF8 wasn't an easy task. I'm looking forward to playing your mod through upon release, and I wish you the best of luck on this final stretch!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-10-18 02:42:57
@HeavensFury   Thank you so much for the positive support!

You ever thought about adding hidden/secret/easter egg stuff in it? :P
  There are a few subtle story references, and inside jokes, but not any true 'Easter eggs'. For example, I make a fairly obvious reference to the idea that Squall is dead. Also, I'll give you a dollar if you find the place where I make an allusion to a 'spoony bard'. (I'll give you a hint, it's not in the main story.)

  For the most part, I have created a much more mature version of the story and characters. But I did take the time to make sure that I didn't completely loose any light-heartedness that may have existed in the original, such as Irvine's magazine for Squall in the concert scene.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-10-18 02:50:07
Also, will this be compatible with other mods?! Like Ragnarok (gameplay) and Lunatic Pandora (graphics)?
  At this point, it's compatible with anything that doesn't change the field.fs file. That makes it compatible with almost all graphical mods, and around 85% of Ragnarok. I use Ragnarok regularly, and I love it. I actually use it along with a compatible version of my Martial Law mod. (Something I should probably make public, soon.)

  Succession is compatible with Ragnarok for of the battle related changes, and character/ability changes. But any event related changes (extra battles, quests, item rewards, drawpoints, different card locations) are not compatible at this point.

  I would love to make a compatibility version eventually, but it would be a lot of work, and might require collaboration with Callisto, if he's even interested.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-10-18 02:51:54
@Ashino  Thanks a lot!  This project has become far more engaging than I ever imagined it would be. I've had a lot of fun making it, and I really hope you all are able to enjoy it as much as I have.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: FatherMcKenzie on 2020-10-27 03:38:25
Amazing!

The Laguna-Centra dialogue is great and I love the reimagining of the Hyne myth. It actually makes more sense now as a morality tale, as opposed to before with the strange, disjointed story about Hyne bestowing half of his body to the people which turned out to be just dead skin...?

Very well done! Can't wait for another playthrough.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Percival on 2020-11-04 16:05:31
@FatherMcKenzie  Thanks!

 Yeah, I really tried to write the myth in a way that informed and supported the plot, and vice versa. I had originally thought of writing two versions of the myth, each with a different interpretation of the events. But I soon realized that the story just doesn't provide the opportunity for that level of depth. I'm still really glad with the results, though.

 And I really like the Laguna scenes. It's a really good example of how much stronger the story can get when you remove or rewrite a few of the jokes that don't quite land.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Lunareste on 2020-11-15 00:19:30
will you ever port this to Remastered?
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: Kandy_Man on 2020-11-16 14:55:16
Really excited to see 1.0 release.  I don't need a reason to play FF8 again but I'll gladly use this is an excuse ;D

I think next time I play will be using PSIO on the PS1.  Will this mod be in any way compatible?  That would be amazing if so.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.0.5)
Post by: goat on 2020-11-25 08:48:09
Hey Percival, I hope your FINAL version of this mod pops up soon!!
My girlfriend is playing through FFVIII for her first time, and I caught the bug too, so now I wanna play!
But because I've been looking over her shoulder this whole time, I figure I should go and play YOUR version instead, so I have a unique experience. Will it be out soon?
I'd love to start as soon as possible, and complete a full playthough with your mod. Can't wait!!! =D
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-11-27 19:41:44
(https://staticdelivery.nexusmods.com/mods/2701/images/3/3-1606504932-1408463091.jpeg)

It's Here!

  After over 2 years of writing, I finally have a finished version of this mod!  It has been more than a year since my 0.5 release, and for all of you that have been waiting since then, I apologize for the long delay, and I sincerely hope that the finished product will be worth the wait.

  No other hobby I have ever had has undergone the level of care and attention that I have devoted to this mod. The process has been as challenging as it was engaging. My greatest ambition is that this mod will allow you to appreciate this game in a deeper way than you ever have before, because that is what it has done for me.

  And I eagerly await any and all feedback you have to offer.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Rikku on 2020-11-28 07:08:08
Wow, amazing !! i started following your mod since de first version.

Is it compatible with the Ragnarok mod ?? Maybe another rebalance mod ??

Thank you for your amazing work !! I will try it and i will enjoy it for sure
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: goat on 2020-11-28 08:23:36
Thank you Percival!

You're about to give me the most enchanting experiencing.
My first playthrough of this game is with YOUR script, so for the rest of my life, your version will be the one that shines.
I hope you've done well.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-11-28 16:06:55
@Rikku  Thank you so much!

  In regards to Ragnarok, as I have said before, Succession is compatible with anything that doesn't change the field.fs files. That makes it compatible with almost all graphical mods, and around 85% of Ragnarok.

  I use Ragnarok regularily, and love it, and Succession is compatible with all of the battle related changes, and character/ability changes. But any event related changes (extra battles, quests, item rewards, drawpoints, card locations) are, very sadly, not compatible at this point.
 
  I do, however, plan to soon release a compatibility version of Martial Law. It is a re-balanced version that plays well with Ragnarok. It is the version I currently use.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-11-28 16:20:31
My first playthrough of this game is with YOUR script, so for the rest of my life, your version will be the one that shines.

  That makes me very intrigued, and a little nervous... Most people who play this mod will already have a fairly intimate knowledge of the vanilla story, including myself, of course. And I wrote this mod with that in mind. That means that your perspective and feedback will be highly unique, and potentially very informative. You might notice something that I and other players are more likely to overlook. And if your girlfriend is playing the original, perhaps the two of you can compare notes!

  Please let me know if you run into any story moments that appear confusing or contradictory. And don't forget to make liberal use of the spoiler feature whenever appropriate.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-11-28 16:26:40
I think next time I play will be using PSIO on the PS1.  Will this mod be in any way compatible?  That would be amazing if so.

  I'm not familiar with PSIO. Isn't it some sort of streaming service? If it relies on local files on your hard drive, then it would depend on the file structure. If the files are the same as the steam version, then this mod should work just fine. But if it functions like an ISO-style emulator, then no.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-11-28 16:34:20
will you ever port this to Remastered?

  I have to be honest, I was VERY disappointed with the 'Remastered' release, especially when comparing it to all the incredible work from the A Class modders on this site. I haven't even looked into modding for it, yet.

  I absolutely plan on making this mod compatible with the Remaster, but I'm not yet sure if it will be an easy process, or a hard one.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: FatherMcKenzie on 2020-11-28 17:11:48
Christmas came early this year :)

I would encourage you to post this on Reddit, both r/FinalFantasyVIII and r/FinalFantasy

The simplicity of the mod is notable as well. That could draw in a lot of first-time modders or those hesitant to mod.

Congrats on this big undertaking!!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-11-28 17:45:54
I would encourage you to post this on Reddit, both r/FinalFantasyVIII and r/FinalFantasy

Thanks!  That's very good advice. As a general rule, I avoid Reddit like I avoid drinking mercury. But in this case, I'm sure you're right.

Also, FatherMcKenzie, I am very interested in your feedback on the Squall/Quistis relationship. I took your previous feedback very seriously, and did my best to bring that tension to the forefront in disc 3. There were not a lot of opportunities, but I would like to think I did well with what was available. (Don't forget to complete the Card Club quest!)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Rikku on 2020-11-28 19:02:19
I am looking forward to play it :)

@Rikku  Thank you so much!

  In regards to Ragnarok, as I have said before, Succession is compatible with anything that doesn't change the field.fs files. That makes it compatible with almost all graphical mods, and around 85% of Ragnarok.

  I use Ragnarok regularily, and love it, and Succession is compatible with all of the battle related changes, and character/ability changes. But any event related changes (extra battles, quests, item rewards, drawpoints, card locations) are, very sadly, not compatible at this point.
 
  I do, however, plan to soon release a compatibility version of Martial Law. It is a re-balanced version that plays well with Ragnarok. It is the version I currently use.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: anikava on 2020-11-28 20:00:49
I know it's not possible ATM but i wish so much i would be able to play this mod with randomiser from Maelstorm, but unfortunately they seem to alter one and the same file. Could you make somehow sometime a way to do it, please?
https://github.com/sleepeybunney/maelstrom/tree/master/FF8Mod    :'(
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Kandy_Man on 2020-11-28 22:18:19
  I'm not familiar with PSIO. Isn't it some sort of streaming service? If it relies on local files on your hard drive, then it would depend on the file structure. If the files are the same as the steam version, then this mod should work just fine. But if it functions like an ISO-style emulator, then no.
PSIO is essentially a flash drive for the PS1.  I'm basically asking if this mod would be compatible with the OG PS1 version of the game.  I highly doubt it will be, but it would cool if it was :)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Kandy_Man on 2020-12-04 09:27:17
I reinstalled FF8 on my laptop to give this mod a try and I'm so glad I did.  I had barely gotten out of the infirmary and had a huge smile on my face.  So far I've reached Dollet and if I had to offer any constructive criticism it would be that it seemed a little odd that Quistis is telling Squall to lighten up in the Fire Cavern after she has been shown up until then to be quite a strict instructor, and continues being quite strict afterwards.  Just a small kind of "huh?" when compared to the rest of her interactions so far.  I'll continue making notes as I go but so far I'm very excited to continue playing, awesome work.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: goat on 2020-12-05 20:38:14
I'm loving this so far!
As my first play through, I feel like the plot is making sense.
But.... THERE ARE A LOT OF GRAMMAR ISSUES! =p

"Your" is not "you're." ;)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-06 17:17:37
...if I had to offer any constructive criticism it would be that it seemed a little odd that Quistis is telling Squall to lighten up in the Fire Cavern after she has been shown up until then to be quite a strict instructor, and continues being quite strict afterwards.  Just a small kind of "huh?" when compared to the rest of her interactions so far.
That's an interesting observation. This moment is fairly faithful to the way the vanilla dialogue plays out, though the original is a little more blunt. If I am interpreting the original correctly, then this is typical for Quistis. One moment her manner is highly professional, and the next she flirts with Squall like a common school girl.

Also, keep in mind the hallway scene outside the infirmary. I believe this scene was also meant to set up the less-serious aspect of her character, where she asked Squall a personal question and then laughed at him while completing his sentences. I think the original was going for something like: confident, pragmatic, and occasionally playful. And I tried my best to stay true to that interpretation of her character.

Maybe I could see about including one more line early on that establishes her playful nature.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-06 17:22:53
@goat
Thanks!  I have already found a couple myself, and uploaded a small update. Any examples you provide will be fixed as soon as possible. I am my own proofreader, unfortunately, and every scene in this mod has gone through more than one edit. I will continue to update anytime you post any errors.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-06 17:52:03
I know it's not possible ATM but i wish so much i would be able to play this mod with randomiser from Maelstorm, but unfortunately they seem to alter one and the same file. Could you make somehow sometime a way to do it, please?
https://github.com/sleepeybunney/maelstrom/tree/master/FF8Mod    :'(
Yeah, I get what you're saying. Unfortunately, I'm not exactly a pro coder, so something like that would be a little out of my depth. I'm sure there are others on the forums that could find a way, but not me.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Kandy_Man on 2020-12-06 19:00:38
That's an interesting observation. This moment is fairly faithful to the way the vanilla dialogue plays out, though the original is a little more blunt. If I am interpreting the original correctly, then this is typical for Quistis. One moment her manner is highly professional, and the next she flirts with Squall like a common school girl.

Also, keep in mind the hallway scene outside the infirmary. I believe this scene was also meant to set up the less-serious aspect of her character, where she asked Squall a personal question and then laughed at him while completing his sentences. I think the original was going for something like: confident, pragmatic, and occasionally playful. And I tried my best to stay true to that interpretation of her character.

Maybe I could see about including one more line early on that establishes her playful nature.
Yeah I remember it being the same in the original, I think what makes it a little more odd for me is that she appears a lot more strict in this mod than the original so it seemed a little more out of character compared to the original, though you're right I forgot about the scene outside the infirmary.  It's just an observation though, I'm loving it so far.

I also noticed a few grammar things as well that I kept a note of as I went:

Dollet central square, Squall: we should have tried to stopped them
Post Dollet, Seifer: Quistis... I’m ashamed (should this be I'm disappointed?)
Cid’s office: continuing to enhancing balamb gardens already exceptional reputation
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-06 23:16:48
@Kandy_Man
  After reviewing the Quistis scene, I agree with you 100%. While it is consistent with her character in general, it is definitely out of place within this scene. I'll fix it.
  You'll have to forgive me. I've already changed so much, that I hesitate to change more without a very good reason.

  I went ahead and changed the central square scene, and Cid's office.

  Seifer is a bit different, though. I definitely meant what he said, that he was "ashamed", and to imply that he was ashamed (of her). The tone I imagined was a blend of derision, condescension, and superiority. But that is harder to convey without voice acting. “Disappointed” works, and it’ll avoid any confusion, but it just doesn’t seem to cut as hard as “ashamed”. 

  I just changed it to “I’m ashamed to hear you say that.” I think that helps maintain the sense of superiority that I was after.

Thanks, again!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: goat on 2020-12-07 10:29:19
I had been keeping a small tally of grammar issues... but then they sorta became too common and I lost count. Heheh. Sorry. =p

But to be honest, after watching some gameplay of the original, I have to admit that outside the grammar issues, your dialog is so REAL and TRUE. It's simply beautiful! I love your version, and when comparing it to the original, your version SHINES with true feeling!

Like while meeting Edea in the Orphanage at the beginning of disk 3, the way you wrote Squall's anger is SO DAMN REAL, and so powerful. I was SHOCKED to see that same scene play out in the original: It was so underwhelming.

Gosh, I'm LOVING your mod. But I swear, the only thing that's keeping it from truly replacing the original are some grammar issues. These grammar mistakes really are quite common to be honest, so I've stopped keeping track. But either way, I'm really appreciating and enjoying your mod. it is making my first playthrough MEANINGFUL.

And I'm learning more about you too. The way you write is powerful and engaging. It's refreshing and glorious.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Kandy_Man on 2020-12-07 11:06:41
@Kandy_Man
  After reviewing the Quistis scene, I agree with you 100%. While it is consistent with her character in general, it is definitely out of place within this scene. I'll fix it.
  You'll have to forgive me. I've already changed so much, that I hesitate to change more without a very good reason.

  I went ahead and changed the central square scene, and Cid's office.

  Seifer is a bit different, though. I definitely meant what he said, that he was "ashamed", and to imply that he was ashamed (of her). The tone I imagined was a blend of derision, condescension, and superiority. But that is harder to convey without voice acting. “Disappointed” works, and it’ll avoid any confusion, but it just doesn’t seem to cut as hard as “ashamed”. 

  I just changed it to “I’m ashamed to hear you say that.” I think that helps maintain the sense of superiority that I was after.

Thanks, again!
I completely understand not wanting to change things without a good reason, and glad you agree, I'm loving it so far so I want it to be the best it can be :)

I get what you mean with Seifers dialog now, I think that small change will clear things up.  If I find anything else I'll be back :D
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-07 17:46:09
@goat
  Wow, thank you!  That is high praise. It's perhaps the most encouragement I've had for this mod, yet.

  Regarding the grammatical issues and typos, I may have overestimated my ability to proofread such a large script with no spellcheck or auto-correct. (Which is kind of funny since I’ve worked as a proofreader in the past. But maybe it’s a little different when it’s your own work.)

  I’ve already started another play-through solely for proofreading purposes. I apologize for releasing the mod in its current state, and I’m continuing to release updates every few days with any corrections I make.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: circle on 2020-12-10 04:41:06
Hi Percival, congratulations on finishing the mod! I'm excited to play it soon

You mentioned that the mod is mostly compatible with Ragnarok, but not completely due to both mods using the same file. I assume that means Ragnarok should be installed first because Succession will then replace one (some?) files? I haven't tried a gameplay mod for FF8 before, so I thought it'd be fun to try (most of) Ragnarok along with Succession
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: HeavensFury on 2020-12-16 00:04:51
Keep up the proofreading work, Percival! It's coming along nicely. Beautiful work indeed. lol
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-16 19:09:07
@Circle
 Yes. Follow all of Callisto's instructions, then drag & drop the Succession files last.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-16 19:13:31
@HeavensFury
  Thanks! I just uploaded another update, which includes my correction of the Fire Cavern scene with Quistis. I also updated the first discussion between Rinoa and Quistis on the train after Timber. It was a tertiary scene on my bucket list. Rinoa no longer criticizes Zone's apparent vice.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-16 19:32:51
@Kandy_Man
  For the Fire Cavern scene, Quistis is no longer trying to flirt with Squall. Instead, she’s nagging him with advice, and Squall becomes visibly upset with her.

  I believe this fits the tone much better, and is in harmony with her repeated and overbearing tutorials. Especially because it should be assumed that Squall doesn't actually need these tutorials (like how to use his own gunblade), even if a first-time player does.

  Let me know what you think!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Kandy_Man on 2020-12-17 08:01:28
@Kandy_Man
  For the Fire Cavern scene, Quistis is no longer trying to flirt with Squall. Instead, she’s nagging him with advice, and Squall becomes visibly upset with her.

  I believe this fits the tone much better, and is in harmony with her repeated and overbearing tutorials. Especially because it should be assumed that Squall doesn't actually need these tutorials (like how to use his own gunblade), even if a first-time player does.

  Let me know what you think!
That's a very interesting approach, I'll take a look later today! :D
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: FatherMcKenzie on 2020-12-18 01:44:14
I just finished my playthrough. Overall, this is a tremendous accomplishment! You have a rare talent combining technical know-how with terrific writing. I know this was a huge undertaking and you have my (and many other FF8 fans) gratitude!

THINGS I LOVED
Spoiler: show

-I had to go back to YouTube several times to see what the original dialogue was for a lot of these changes. Over and over, I was very impressed how much depth you added compared with the original! In so many instances, there are holes in the original script that you filled in very skillfully.
-Overall narrative is a LOT more coherent. The reasons characters do things and the reason certain events are linked together is explained much better, leaving less confusion for first-timers and even those replaying FF8 after many years.
-The dialogue is brimming with juicy details. A great example: Odine's lengthly explanation about the origins of the Lunatic Pandora and the reason it's moving to Tears Point.
-Biggs says the comm dish is being used for "ocean surveyance"... to find the Lunatic Pandora. Anything that can tie the early game to the late game is an excellent idea!
-New Laguna dialogue is well done. It gives his scenes more dimension and helps the player connect the dots of his backstory. I remember being very confused when I first played FF8 as to why Laguna was constantly in these different locations and what the hell was going on.
-Squall giving the order to Norg to vacate: The antagonistic tone makes more a lot more sense given what has occurred with the Balamb Garden 'civil war'.
-Cid's dialogue and overall character is excellent. The knowlege that he imparts to Squall (especially post-Missile strike) gives a deeper dimension to their relationship.
-Squall's inner monologue is great. It gives new depth to the story instead of just being mindlessly emo.
-Rinoa's fate during the Garden battle: The party and Squall are sure Rinoa's gone, and Squall seems shaken that she is dead. In the original, he doesn't seem as fazed. Squall's speech to the Garden was great. Also, your explanation of how she was able to cling to the cliff is a welcome addition.
-I'll echo what @goat said about Squall's dialogue at the beginning of Disc 3 after defeating Edea. It's raw and real! Like so many other scenes, the original is completely underwhelming and milquetoast in comparison.
-Edea's new post-sorceress dialogue gives you more of a sense what a sorceress' progression (or downfall) is like to the individual experiencing it. It gives a more clear sense of the real danger Rinoa poses.
-I enjoyed the new mentions of Trabia City and its fate.
-Ellone's conversation on Lunar Base is excellent, illuminates *why* she wanted to change the past.
-In the outer space scene, instead of just yelling "Rinoa!!! No!!!", Squall tries to tell Rinoa to turn on the reserve oxygen in her space suit. Makes more sense!
-You did a great job with Doc Odine's expanded dialogue. It filled in a lot of gaps.
-The changes surrounding 'Succession' and the myth of Hyne are terrific


THINGS I'D HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY
Spoiler: show

-Quistis' romantic dimension: I understand it was hard finding spots to inject new dialogue. The only real quality one-on-one time with Squall & Quisty happens in the early game [Intro, Fire Cavern, Training Center]. I was wondering if there was any more spots where Quistis could have made her feelings for Squall (and Rinoa jealousy) known, but there aren't many to choose from after the Training Center scene. I enjoyed Dr. Kadowaki's dialogue during Rinoa's B Garden tour where the Doc hinted at Quistis' feelings toward Squall. The CCGroup dialogue is good, but I might consider using that one final opportunity to have more of a heart-to-heart with Squall and let her feelings be known (and perhaps how she's accepted that she can't have him).
-It seems you've removed Rinoa's mention of a relationship with Seifer. To me, that added another interesting facet of drama to the story. I would have left it in and even expanded it. Perhaps Seifer could have taunted Squall about Rinoa, how he was "more of a man," etc. Squall might question if Rinoa still has feelings for Seifer... There's a few opportunities for some custom dialogue like when Rinoa is in the party during the G Garden showdown with Seifer/Edea.
-The game pretty much acknowledges that Squall is Laguna's son, but Squall and Laguna don't ever address the elephant in the room. This is a HUGE development just to be left hanging out there with no formal acknowledgement between the characters themselves. That just always kind of irked me. Squall's mixed feelings at meeting his father for the first time would provide a interesting new dimension in the story.


QUESTIONS:
Spoiler: show

-The removal of the "Time Compression" subplot and the addition of "Succession" is well done. (Time compression is still referenced in the battle text of Ultimecia's final form, though.)
If I am understanding correctly: Succession is a collective consciousness of all past sorceresses that they can junction to in order to harness their power. As sorceresses die out, their knowledge is added to the Succession which becomes collectively more powerful and presumably more irresistable/innate in future sorceresses. Sorry if I missed this: Is Ultimecia an embodiment of the Succession herself? Or is she just the most powerful user of it?
-Did you change any dialogue in the Shumi Village sidequest? I skipped it, but if you did make any changes, I'd like to see.
-You skillfully filled almost all the major plot holes and replaced weak plot devices from the original, but there's still a couple that stick with me:
--How did Squall not die after getting impaled in Deling? Did Rinoa heal him with her Sorceress powers?
--After the final battle, Squall visits Edea from the past and witnesses Ultimecia transfer her powers to Edea, completing a Grandfather paradox loop. This time, however the cycle is broken and Succession is finally ended(?) Do we know why this particular time, it's different?
--Are Ultimecia and Rinoa the same person? I know this is a fringe theory and if you don't agree with it, no worries. If not, who is Ultimecia and how did she come to be the most powerful sorceress with control over all of the other sorceresses throughout time? (Sorry if this was explained)


TYPOs
Spoiler: show
I'll just preface this-- None of these typos detracted from the overall experience which was wonderful. Sorry if I come across as a grammar nazi! If you disagree with some of my corrections, that's fine. I just tried to help out by combing through as much dialogue as possible:

-"He better show up. I'll get in trouble if she doesn't come back soon." [pronouns mismatched?] (B Garden library at beginning of game, Girl near desks)
-"Effective use of GFs is as much an art as a a science, requiring practice, and hard work." (Quistis at front gate)
-"In the mean time, use the Draw technique in battle..." (Quistis at front gate)
-"At least your confident enough." (Quistis at Fire Cavern)
-"Don't forget who's side you're on" (Seifer, pre-Exam)
-"This is the reason why Balamb SeeD's have become known far and wide" (Cid, pre-Exam)
-"Just keep talking and see were it gets you" (Seifer, in car)
-"We should have tried to stopped them." (Squall, dog training scene)
-"I thought we were just suppose to guard the square?" (Zell, dog training scene)
-"I'm a litte concerned that all the agressive wildlife here could interfere with our plans." (Wedge at the comm tower)
-"And their entire peace agreement could have been jeopordized...because of you." (Cid, disciplining Seifer)
-"I know We'll be busy with a lot of SeeD stuff from now on..." [unnecessary capital letter] (Selphie, at SeeD party)
-"I can't carrying anyone's burden but my own" (Squall talking to Quistis at the Training Ctr)
-"On second thought, it doesn't matter. Just for get I said anything." (Zell, after returning from Training Ctr)
-"To push back against Galbadia and become independant again." (Zell, on train to Timber)
-"Umm...she's is still taking a nap, sir." (Watts, on train)
-"Fine. I wake up your collegue, but listen closely." (Squall, on train)
-"All of us are in the resistance because we got no where else to go." (Resistance member, train middle room)
-"All you rebelious Timber anarchists come out of the cracks like roaches." (Gerogero)
-"But I'm afraid...you wont be around to see it." (Gerogero)
-"I can't believe were they able to pull such a dirty trick." (Rinoa, after Gerogero battle)
-"Cid also included an 'addendum' that he gave me to summarize contract." (Rinoa)
-"Also sir, we have a discription of that suspicious man you had asked about." (Galbadian soldier on Timber bridge)
-"And the rest of you! Canvas the city. Question everyone in the area." [verb should be spelled 'Canvass'] (Galbadian officer on bridge)
-"Lot's of guards patrolling the city now! Please be careful, sir!" (Watts, as train leaves him behind)
-"(I hope no solder's see me doing this...)" (Man on bridge in Timber)
-"Out of your entire team, you're the ONLY who can even pretend to be combat ready." (Squall, ["Tell her off" option] in front of TV station)
-"I'm sorry, but your team just isn't capable of the kind of change your looking for." (Squall, ["Be honest" option] in front of TV station)
-"And so, I will be confering with the leaders of every nation to discuss these problems." [should be 'conferring'] (Deling, TV address)
-"I'm here to stop this thing once and for all, at it's source!" (Seifer, holding Deling hostage)
-"The legend goes, in the war with Galbadia, my mother was able resist a whole battalion with nothing but her strength and beauty." (Forest Fox's daughter)
-"But I were to trust anyone in all Galbadia, it'd be Headmaster Martine!"  (Quistis, at Forest Fox's house)
-"Watch you backs" (Laguna, Centra ruins)
-"Some reconnaisance mission..." [should be 'reconnaissance'] (Kiros, Centra ruins)
-"///Quistis 'There Should be an announcement...'" (After the G Garden reception room discussion)
-"I guess we'll, see you around, Squall." [unnecessary comma] (Raijin at G Garden)
-"...at all cost." [should be 'costs'](Gen. Caraway says this twice)
-"You mean since our disgraceful reconaissance mission?" [should be 'reconnaissance'] (Kiros at Raine's bar)
-"Julia Heartily" [should be 'Heartilly'?] (Kiros and Raine)
-"It's a sweet song on it's own..." (Raine)
-"...that no matter who we loose, and in spite of how much we might suffer." [unnecessary period at end] (Raine)
-"He hasn't been very interested in making longterm plans for the future." (Raine, to Elle)
-"Am I any sense to you?" (Raine, to Elle)
-"She will remake Galbadia...and by extention...the whole world!" (Seifer, in torture room)
-"Edea's will not be resisted." [missing direct object?](Seifer, in torture room)
-"The price the Gardens will have to pay for your stubborness... will be great" (Seifer, in torture room)
"judgement" (Squall & Rinoa at the desert crossroads)
-The Maintenance Soldier (the one too lazy to inspect the circuit room) at the missile base is named "NewPage" in one block of text.
-"But I guess I failled..." (Selphie right before the missile base blows up)
-"SeeD's" (Raijin & Rinoa in B Garden lobby)
-"He not here any more" (SeeD in B Garden library)
-"We're trying to poise ourselves" [verb usage?] (SeeD in B Garden library)
-"I can take care of my rebelious faculty." (Cid)
-"Hmm... I guess not, as long as we're out her in the ocean..." (Rinoa, B Garden parking lot)
-I see you purposefully de-capitalized Norg and his speech. There were a few instances where Norg's name was still ALL CAPS'd though. His In-Battle text is still all caps. Not sure if I would use hyphens now that his speech has been de-capitalized.
-"If you are still here passed the deadline, or if you attempt to offer any resistance...." (Squall, to Norg)
-"Headmaster Cid had recently sent out several SeeDs on reconaissance missions." (Garden Faculty, before Norg battle)
-"I'm sorry you've had to see me in such an embarassing state." (Cid, infirmary)
-"After all, the junctioning process itself is controvercial." (Cid, infirmary)
-"Now, any knowledge or skill he possessed, is at the Sorceress's disposal." [should be apostrophe with no 'S' at the end] (Cid, infirmary)
-"(Ellone always used to tell me how bad sorceresess were.) [Squall, after Ellone leaves on white ship]
-"And don't go out of your way to offend anyone unnecessary." [should be 'unnecessarily'] (Cid, after landing in FH)
-Fishermans Horizon is spelled without the apostrophe in the original (and still is in your version), but the apostrophe was added in a handful of places.
-"Though, we haven't really have much traffic in years." (Familiar Face, FH)
-"We believe that it's more useful to settled problems with discussion." (Mayor Dobe)
-"It will chronicled the, ummm...lighter side of your missions thus far." (Cid, B Garden bridge)
-"I try to never even use my powers...I'm...I'm too afraid...that I might loss control of it..." (Rinoa, Irish Jig scenario)
-"When thing start to get rough, we're gonna need your encouragement." (Rinoa, [3 instruments Irish Jig/1 instrument Eyes on Me scenario])
-Her name says "Rinoa leans down" and "Rinoa no anim" during the Scenario with [2 instruments Eyes on Me/2 instruments from Irish Jig]
-"In the mean time, your not the only one with more responsiblility. (Quistis, on bridge after concert)
-"I never loose..." (Quistis, after defeating her at cards)
-"Come find me in the Garden cockpit, when your interested." (Quistis, after defeating her at cards)
-"I was taken to Galbadia Garden when I was stll really young." (Irvine, orphanage scene)
-"We can't let the memories of our past cloud our present judgement." (Quistis, b-ball court)
-"Some. But the guys at the front gate are still held them off somehow..." (Irvine talking to Kadowaki, during Garden battle)
-"We don't have time mourn... Not until we win!" (Squall)
-"It persisted, like a ravanous hunger, yet one that came from without, and not within..." (Edea, orphanage)
-"If she is revived, you may only have a short while before she succombs..." (Edea)
-"Not just on you, or Rinoa...but on your team, on the Garden...and on the world..." [Rinoa is hardcoded] (Cid, orphanage)
-"At first, their only purpose was to to protect Ellone from Esthar." (Cid, orphanage)
-"They were original stationed in Ellone's home town, somewhere in the mountains." (Watts, white SeeD ship)
-"Rinoa's condition is far from stable." [Rinoa is hardcoded] (Edea, Salt flats)
-"Tresspassing...I've been searching for someone, a girl who was kidnapped." (Laguna, Lunatic Pandora lab)
-"But I guess no body else has a problem with him doin' experiments on little kids..." (Laguna, Lunatic Pandora lab)
-"Your gonna wanna confront Odine." (Forced Laborer, Lunatic Pandora Lab)
-"But as for you thinking your no longer a sorceress? That's beyond my..." (Presidential Aide, Pres. Palace)
-"(Don't loose your cool, Zell.)" (Squall, Lunar gate)
-"Come, let me show you ze tragectory" (Doc Odine, Odine Lab)
-"Once you enter the atomosphere, we can guide you down." (Esthar airstation to Ragnarok)
-"If your ready for my report, Sir..." (Zell, Ragnarok)
-"Hey, Squall! We just go something!!" (Zell, orphanage field)
-"If we weren't in a state of emergence, we could chat all day" (Laguna, Pres. Palace)
-"Again, your thinking is far to simple to grasp ze extent of ze problem." (Doc Odine, Pres. Palace)
-"I wish they'd never decomissioned them. They're just so cool!" (Laguna, Pres. Palace)
-"That Pillar, can have some earie effects on people, if they're around it for too long." (Laguna, Ragnarok)
-"I've grow and changed a lot since then." (Laguna, Ragnarok)
-"...with nothing but your most based instincts to guide you in your destruction." [should be 'base instincts'] (Seifer, final showdown)
-"Things may get a little wierd from here on out!" (Laguna, after Adel battle)
-"But...my time her has run out, and so has yours." (Edea, post-final battle)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: goat on 2020-12-18 17:25:45
I always felt that Quistis is more of a friend who wants to be a *good friend* to Squall.

She doesn't want to just be a teacher; she wants to really connect with him, and be trusted by him.
It's not a matter of romance, even if she's the sort of girl who might play a frisky game of truth-or-dare with him under better circumstances.
I figure that she just wants a person who's smart and competent enough to be her friend.

She's surrounded by those Trepe groupies who are infatuated with her, right? But that doesn't satisfy her. She wants a REAL friend who's on her level.
Not someone who looks up to her, but someone who is her equal. Not as a lover necessarily, even if that'd make her happy too, but she's fine to just be friends with a person who "gets it."

Like Squall. Squall with his skill, and his dark, isolated personality means that he doesn't just obsess over her like her fanatics do. Instead, he's a challenge, and she feels like she's winning when she can guess what he'll say next. But isn't she always rejected, even just as a friend?

I think her struggle isn't one of romance. It's that she just wants to be his friend, someone to talk to, but he keeps rejecting her both on personal terms, and he doesn't even need her advice either.

But she won't give up!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-20 02:36:08
@FatherMcKenzie
Thank you SO much for all of the feedback!  I have never felt so encouraged that all the time spent on this mod was worthwhile. And thank you for all the corrections. I am already working on the next update.

  The greatest limitation I have had when adding any new content is finding a scene that justifies it. Some scenes seem almost originally designed for the changes I've made, like Rinoa's fall during the Garden battle, or why Rinoa has an Odine Bangle in the first place. But many ideas were not nearly that easy. Within my notes is a long wish list of things (which includes what you've mentioned) that there simple wasn't any room for. I'm actually amazed that I was able to add as much of my list as I did.

THINGS I'D HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY
Spoiler: show

-Quistis' romantic dimension: I understand it was hard finding spots to inject new dialogue. The only real quality one-on-one time with Squall & Quisty happens in the early game [Intro, Fire Cavern, Training Center]. I was wondering if there was any more spots where Quistis could have made her feelings for Squall (and Rinoa jealousy) known, but there aren't many to choose from after the Training Center scene. I enjoyed Dr. Kadowaki's dialogue during Rinoa's B Garden tour where the Doc hinted at Quistis' feelings toward Squall. The CCGroup dialogue is good, but I might consider using that one final opportunity to have more of a heart-to-heart with Squall and let her feelings be known (and perhaps how she's accepted that she can't have him).
-It seems you've removed Rinoa's mention of a relationship with Seifer. To me, that added another interesting facet of drama to the story. I would have left it in and even expanded it. Perhaps Seifer could have taunted Squall about Rinoa, how he was "more of a man," etc. Squall might question if Rinoa still has feelings for Seifer... There's a few opportunities for some custom dialogue like when Rinoa is in the party during the G Garden showdown with Seifer/Edea.
-The game pretty much acknowledges that Squall is Laguna's son, but Squall and Laguna don't ever address the elephant in the room. This is a HUGE development just to be left hanging out there with no formal acknowledgement between the characters themselves. That just always kind of irked me. Squall's mixed feelings at meeting his father for the first time would provide a interesting new dimension in the story.

Quistis:
Spoiler: show
  Trust me, I feel your pain. If I were actually writing my own fan fiction, I may have made a Mass Effect style 'choose your own adventure', where you could pick Rinoa or Quistis. Or perhaps I would have removed Rinoa altogether. But that's not why I'm here.
  I'm looking into the CC match dialogue (which is actually another monologue, unfortunately, since Squall never says anything back), and I'll do what I can. The challenge is that you can complete it whenever you want, so I'll have to be sufficiently vague. Keep in mind that she effectively only has 3 lines to work with, and you'll have to win against her to get them. Expect something like my recent Fire Cavern change, a noticeable improvement, perhaps, but nothing monumental.
  Also, don't forget Quistis' dialogue with Squall on the Ragnarok, after they get back from space. That's meant to be the moment where she concedes that Squall will never be happy choosing her over Rinoa. It's not as emphatic as I would have liked, but that's the only manditory scene with the two of them that I can think of after disc 1.

Rinoa/Seifer:
Spoiler: show
  Yes. I gave their minor love triangle situation a lot of thought before finally rejecting it. While it does add another layer to the drama, it ultimately falls in the same category as the amnesia. It isn't a bad idea, but it needed far more development in order to justify its inclusion. It was simply one more thing that took precious screen time away from the core elements of the plot. Like the amnesia, it was far more advantageous to cut it out, than to develop it into something good.
  One of the main challenges to making their relationship believable is that we don't get a chance to see Seifer behaving as someone who would merit Rinoa's affection. If she liked the person we see as Seifer, it would be an indictment of either her character, or her intelligence, or both. And one of my biggest concerns with Rinoa was how to make her more sympathetic. Having her inexplicably fall for Seifer was a very bad way of achieving that goal.

Laguna:
Spoiler: show
  I couldn't agree with you more!
  The more time I spend with this story, the more it becomes painfully clear that, during development, they had to rush disc 3 and 4 a lot in order to finish on time. (For example, I have a suspicion that the Deep Sea Research Facility was originally intended to be the place where they recovered the Lunatic Pandora from the ocean.) And when cutting, the first things to go were the Laguna flashbacks. Think of how much story Laguna has to dump on Squall at the very end of the game.
  My point is that I think they had originally wanted to develop Squall and Laguna's relationship far more. But since they didn't, there aren't even any scenes to rewrite. This is, again, one more interesting idea that has no scenes to support it. Like with Quistis, I need at least one scene where Laguna and Squall sit down alone and have a chat. When you find that scene, I promise to take a month rewriting it for you.
  Also, did you get a chance to talk to Laguna in the Ragnarok after he gives his speech? If you do, Laguna will actually tell Squall that, if Squall survives, he has something he needs to get of his chest, and that the two of them should have a long talk. This assumes that Squall still doesn't realize what Laguna is talking about.
  While I wasn't able to write the scene we wanted, I was able to allude to the fact that the two of them would eventually get that scene sometime in the future.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-20 02:59:32
QUESTIONS:
Spoiler: show

-The removal of the "Time Compression" subplot and the addition of "Succession" is well done. (Time compression is still referenced in the battle text of Ultimecia's final form, though.)
If I am understanding correctly: Succession is a collective consciousness of all past sorceresses that they can junction to in order to harness their power. As sorceresses die out, their knowledge is added to the Succession which becomes collectively more powerful and presumably more irresistable/innate in future sorceresses. Sorry if I missed this: Is Ultimecia an embodiment of the Succession herself? Or is she just the most powerful user of it?
-Did you change any dialogue in the Shumi Village sidequest? I skipped it, but if you did make any changes, I'd like to see.
-You skillfully filled almost all the major plot holes and replaced weak plot devices from the original, but there's still a couple that stick with me:
--How did Squall not die after getting impaled in Deling? Did Rinoa heal him with her Sorceress powers?
--After the final battle, Squall visits Edea from the past and witnesses Ultimecia transfer her powers to Edea, completing a Grandfather paradox loop. This time, however the cycle is broken and Succession is finally ended(?) Do we know why this particular time, it's different?
--Are Ultimecia and Rinoa the same person? I know this is a fringe theory and if you don't agree with it, no worries. If not, who is Ultimecia and how did she come to be the most powerful sorceress with control over all of the other sorceresses throughout time? (Sorry if this was explained)

(Time compression is still referenced in the battle text of Ultimecia's final form, though.)
I know. If I wasn’t more interested in making this mod as compatible as possible with gameplay mods, I would absolutely change ALL battle dialogue.

-Did you change any dialogue in the Shumi Village sidequest? I skipped it, but if you did make any changes, I'd like to see.
  Not at all. It’s at the bottom of my list, right below rewriting random NPC dialogue in other towns and cities. (Which will likely never happen.)

Spoiler: show
--How did Squall not die after getting impaled in Deling? Did Rinoa heal him with her Sorceress powers?
  I still haven’t come up with a way of explaining this, at least, not without coming off sounding pathetically contrived. Especially because I couldn’t find an appropriate place to insert an explanation that wouldn’t be obviously out of place. So, as of now, I guess it wasn’t as bad as it looked, and Seifer just laughs it off as an inside joke for the players. (Feel free to reply if you have an idea for how, and especially WHERE I would insert such an explanation. I’m at a loss.)

Spoiler: show
--If I am understanding correctly: Succession is a collective consciousness of all past sorceresses that they can junction to in order to harness their power. As sorceresses die out, their knowledge is added to the Succession which becomes collectively more powerful and presumably more irresistable/innate in future sorceresses. Sorry if I missed this: Is Ultimecia an embodiment of the Succession herself? Or is she just the most powerful user of it?
--After the final battle, Squall visits Edea from the past and witnesses Ultimecia transfer her powers to Edea, completing a Grandfather paradox loop. This time, however the cycle is broken and Succession is finally ended(?) Do we know why this particular time, it's different?
  I had always wanted to be a bit open-ended in the conclusion, but I should have realized that an effective resolution would depend on knowing EXACTLY what happened. I was hoping that Squall’s discussion with ‘Edea’ at the very end would offer sufficient exposition, but that dialogue is on a timer, and I couldn’t add nearly as much as I had originally wanted.
  It’s clear from your feedback that I should work on Odine’s monologue. Our understanding of the entire conclusion rests on his explanation of the events that are to follow. This was a big problem with the vanilla plot, and it’s obviously a struggle for me to overcome. Odine’s monologue is already very long and very dense, and I’m not super excited that I may need to make it even longer.
  I’ll work on making Odine more confident in his conclusions, and more explicit about what he knows. I think this is the only way the player will get all the necessary information.

--Are Ultimecia and Rinoa the same person? I know this is a fringe theory and if you don't agree with it, no worries. If not, who is Ultimecia and how did she come to be the most powerful sorceress with control over all of the other sorceresses throughout time? (Sorry if this was explained)
  Unfortunately, I emphatically reject both popular fan theories, ‘Squall is dead’ and ‘Rinoa is Ultimecia’. This is mainly out of respect for the original work and its authors, but also because there isn’t any obvious way of interpreting the original in that way, without torturing it to death. I do, however, find both ideas fascinating, and if Nojima had actually intended them, or even approve of them in any way, I may have tried to incorporate them both.
  Regarding Ultimecia’s origin, I had always meant for it to be a bit mysterious, primarily because I didn’t really see a way for anyone to ever learn the truth. (I guess I’ll probably have to write that Odine learned that information from Adel, too). I never really decided on one interpretation over another, and I think that at a certain point, it becomes a distinction without a difference. But I had hoped that by providing a certain amount of explanation, while still leaving it open-ended, it would retain an intriguing sense of mystery.
  Perhaps I was wrong. I should have figured that, given my limited opportunities to provide exposition, as well as the unique nature of such a rewrite in general, that I should avoid any open-ended interpretations altogether. I seems like it may only lead to confusion and dissatisfaction for the player.
  Side note:
  In one particular sense, you could actually say that Rinoa is Ultimecia. But that is only to the same extent that all sorceresses are Ultimecia. Since Ultimecia has a certain amount of control and influence over the will of all sorceresses, she lives vicariously through them. But this is, of course, a far cry from Rinoa’s fan theory, and does not rely on any time travel, or sorceresses that can live forever.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-20 17:14:37
@goat
 You're right, but two things can be true at the same time. Quistis desperately wants to be Squall's friend, but she sees it as a means to an end. Friendship is her stepping stone to romance, and she's looking for both from Squall.

  Also, I meant to point out that Quistis suffered from her own sense of isolation as a result of her being such an exceptional student. This feeds into her need for a friend she can confide in. (Something you clearly picked up on.)  In the Orphanage Flashback scene, when she spoke of growing up with Seifer, I wanted to imply that it was something she and Seifer shared. And as she grows closer to Squall, she keeps asking him to meet her on that level. But despite her pleas, that's just not the type of person Squall is.

  My goal was to establish that the two of them had a long history of Quistis making advances on Squall, and him routinely dismissing them, leaving her perpetually 'friend-zoned'. Tragic, I know, but that's her story.

  And let me know if you think I failed to properly convey any of that. I'm always a little concerned about the balance between being too subtle and being too obvious, given the nature of the medium and the uniqueness of the project.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: FatherMcKenzie on 2020-12-20 23:28:43
Thanks for taking the time to address all my points. I'll just put one big spoiler tag on this thing:

Spoiler: show

Quistis:
  Trust me, I feel your pain. If I were actually writing my own fan fiction, I may have made a Mass Effect style 'choose your own adventure', where you could pick Rinoa or Quistis. Or perhaps I would have removed Rinoa altogether. But that's not why I'm here.
  I'm looking into the CC match dialogue (which is actually another monologue, unfortunately, since Squall never says anything back), and I'll do what I can. The challenge is that you can complete it whenever you want, so I'll have to be sufficiently vague. Keep in mind that she effectively only has 3 lines to work with, and you'll have to win against her to get them. Expect something like my recent Fire Cavern change, a noticeable improvement, perhaps, but nothing monumental.
  Also, don't forget Quistis' dialogue with Squall on the Ragnarok, after they get back from space. That's meant to be the moment where she concedes that Squall will never be happy choosing her over Rinoa. It's not as emphatic as I would have liked, but that's the only manditory scene with the two of them that I can think of after disc 1.

Ha, I was a pretty big fan of the Mass Effect trilogy as well! In part, for this reason.
Yes, one of the biggest problems is the fact that Squall is just silent during the CC match scene. I took note of Quistis' dialogue on the Ragnarok, and it's well done. I think she said something along the lines of "I wish I had someone as brave as you."

Rinoa/Seifer:
  Yes. I gave their minor love triangle situation a lot of thought before finally rejecting it. While it does add another layer to the drama, it ultimately falls in the same category as the amnesia. It isn't a bad idea, but it needed far more development in order to justify its inclusion. It was simply one more thing that took precious screen time away from the core elements of the plot. Like the amnesia, it was far more advantageous to cut it out, than to develop it into something good.
  One of the main challenges to making their relationship believable is that we don't get a chance to see Seifer behaving as someone who would merit Rinoa's affection. If she liked the person we see as Seifer, it would be an indictment of either her character, or her intelligence, or both. And one of my biggest concerns with Rinoa was how to make her more sympathetic. Having her inexplicably fall for Seifer was a very bad way of achieving that goal.

I get what you're saying about Rinoa liking Seifer being an indictment of her character, but I personally wouldn't view it that way. I think people fall in love for the wrong reasons and then learn from it. I'm no therapist by any means, but just from personal experience, I'd say: One of the most important parts of building a lasting relationship is making peace with your significant other's past and who they may have loved before you. There was a part of me who thought, "Really, you dated him?" but the more time goes on and the more you fall in love, the less it matters. How much this applies to a video game script about teenage mercenaries fighting a witch from the future, I don't know lol

Laguna:
  I couldn't agree with you more!
  The more time I spend with this story, the more it becomes painfully clear that, during development, they had to rush disc 3 and 4 a lot in order to finish on time. (For example, I have a suspicion that the Deep Sea Research Facility was originally intended to be the place where they recovered the Lunatic Pandora from the ocean.) And when cutting, the first things to go were the Laguna flashbacks. Think of how much story Laguna has to dump on Squall at the very end of the game.
  My point is that I think they had originally wanted to develop Squall and Laguna's relationship far more. But since they didn't, there aren't even any scenes to rewrite. This is, again, one more interesting idea that has no scenes to support it. Like with Quistis, I need at least one scene where Laguna and Squall sit down alone and have a chat. When you find that scene, I promise to take a month rewriting it for you.
  Also, did you get a chance to talk to Laguna in the Ragnarok after he gives his speech? If you do, Laguna will actually tell Squall that, if Squall survives, he has something he needs to get of his chest, and that the two of them should have a long talk. This assumes that Squall still doesn't realize what Laguna is talking about.
  While I wasn't able to write the scene we wanted, I was able to allude to the fact that the two of them would eventually get that scene sometime in the future.

That's some fascinating insight... The Lunatic Pandora subplot is one of my favorite parts of the story and if they could have illustrated how it was extracted from the ocean via the Deep Sea Research Facility, that would have been cool.
I think you're right about the Laguna scenes getting cut as well. That's what made the Laguna story so puzzling for me, at least when I was playing this for the first time.
I took note of the Ragnarok Laguna/Squall dialogue. This is probably the only scene that it could have been addressed. Just like with Quistis, the problem is: Squall is completely silent.

[Re: Squall getting impaled]
  I still haven’t come up with a way of explaining this, at least, not without coming off sounding pathetically contrived. Especially because I couldn’t find an appropriate place to insert an explanation that wouldn’t be obviously out of place. So, as of now, I guess it wasn’t as bad as it looked, and Seifer just laughs it off as an inside joke for the players. (Feel free to reply if you have an idea for how, and especially WHERE I would insert such an explanation. I’m at a loss.)

I can't really think of an explanation either, aside from (1) Rinoa saving his life (2) Edea spares his life to extract information or (3) Squall is dead theory. It's a tough one. Maybe #2 is Occam's razor.

  I had always wanted to be a bit open-ended in the conclusion, but I should have realized that an effective resolution would depend on knowing EXACTLY what happened. I was hoping that Squall’s discussion with ‘Edea’ at the very end would offer sufficient exposition, but that dialogue is on a timer, and I couldn’t add nearly as much as I had originally wanted.
  It’s clear from your feedback that I should work on Odine’s monologue. Our understanding of the entire conclusion rests on his explanation of the events that are to follow. This was a big problem with the vanilla plot, and it’s obviously a struggle for me to overcome. Odine’s monologue is already very long and very dense, and I’m not super excited that I may need to make it even longer.
  I’ll work on making Odine more confident in his conclusions, and more explicit about what he knows. I think this is the only way the player will get all the necessary information.

 Regarding Ultimecia’s origin, I had always meant for it to be a bit mysterious, primarily because I didn’t really see a way for anyone to ever learn the truth. (I guess I’ll probably have to write that Odine learned that information from Adel, too). I never really decided on one interpretation over another, and I think that at a certain point, it becomes a distinction without a difference. But I had hoped that by providing a certain amount of explanation, while still leaving it open-ended, it would retain an intriguing sense of mystery.

I really tried to take my time with the Odine monologue scene and I even reset the game to re-read a couple parts to fully understand. It is very long, but for me, I really wanted to soak up that knowledge like a sponge. Your new Disc 3 Edea dialogue is well done--I wonder if Edea could offer any further details re: Ultimecia/Succession? Or is the idea that she's really in the dark about some of the in-depth details that Odine knows?
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: dillez on 2020-12-21 08:47:53
Does this conflict with any other mods? Can I use this with ragnarok gameplay mod etc?
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Kandy_Man on 2020-12-21 09:00:48
I know. If I wasn’t more interested in making this mod as compatible as possible with gameplay mods, I would absolutely change ALL battle dialogue.
I'd be open to a version of the mod where you do all the changes you want even if it is incompatible with other mods, just saying  ;D The only mod I ever use is the music mod so to play your rewrite exactly as you wanted it to be would be amazing
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: zenebazh on 2020-12-23 21:39:44
Hi,
I came here to spice up my gazillionth ff8 playthrough with some graphical mods and came upon your story mod.
...and I was not disappointed!!! :D

Great Job!!!!
You made a really beautiful and coherent retelling of one of my most beloved games.
It kinda makes me wanna do a german version of this (but I have huge writing project already going on, so better not :| )

Nonetheless I really wanna give you feedback:

What I love
Spoiler: show
 
  • if there is one plot point everybody agrees is effed-up in this, its the amnesia thing. Thanks for getting rid of it. Making everybody being aware of their orphanage past gives all the characters much more depth and the story suddenly feels more modern and subtle. With Selphie and Xell mentioning it early in the game you managed to make the plot point intriguing untill its full reveal later. The whole courtyard scene becomes even more of an emotional character moment for everyone than in vanilla, highlighting their different experiences as war orphans. This is a good grown-up storytelling!
  • Emphazizing the whole cold-war situation really enriches the worlds lore and setting. It ties in thematically with the characters mentioned above war orphan status and gives more relevancy to the conflicts in Dollet, Timber and Deling. Although it was always referenced in vanilla, making it more prominent in the main story just raises the stakes for the player to engage in the world.
  • Giving Seifer a less vague motivation. Its still a romantic dream, but with more substantial activism in there. Also more mention of him actually leading the galbadian troops highlights the mirror image to Squall as executives of Edea an Cid respectively.
  • Speaking of Cid: His nice-guy persona as the principal of a para-military school always felt out of place in vanila. You created a very interesting dynamic between him and squall that gives both characters more layers.
  • It always felt odd to me that the whole game is about sorceresses and their enormous powers, but for some reason Ellone wasn't one of them. Thanks for fixing this and also tying in the games uniqe Junctioning mechanic into the story and lore with Ellones- and Sorceress powers.
  • I like how you handled Quistis alot. This character is very frustrating from a narration point as she doesnt get establishing character moment like the others past her introduction.
    I think you made the best of what was given. I like that she mentions her friendship with Seifer more detailed, which expands on both their personalities.
  • Although I liked the very goofy Laguna your rewrite gave those dream sequences more meaning. It also highlights the paralells between squalls and his journey becoming leaders. Making Laguna someone who knows why he is fighting and who he wants to protect instead of just tumbling into it.

There is probably much more smaller things I liled but xant recall right now :)


Things I would do differently

Spoiler: show

  • Rinoa coming-out as sorceress in FH really cheapens Elliones reveal a lot for me. Its just 1 hour of gameplay between it and it does not give the player and Squall enough time to digest. Up untill Elliones confession we just had heard of evil sorceresses,  thus making Squall now revalue his worldview. It doesnt feel natural for Squall to stay calm and not adressing the matter after discovering that another sorceress is in their midst.
    I actually liked how in vanilla the player can only guess Rinoas sorceress status after the Battle of the gardens but is still left in the dark untill she finally tells us at the Raganrok. You already put a lot of hints in your rewrite which would make the vanila reveal more natural and coherent already, without losing the arc of anticipation it already had.
  • Overcomplicating the White Seeds origin. I dont see any contradictions with them being dispatched by Edea to keep Ellione safe. This explains much better why Laguna wasn't abel to find her again. Instead of thinking she is dead.
  • Your other big rewrite is the Time Compression. Besides the poor execution and explaination, I hadn t such a huge problem with that aspect from vanila, though I understand why others had.
     I like your concept of this ancestor-sorceress power source (reminds me of the Bene Geseritt in Dune), but the way you deal with Ultimecia actually worsens the problem people had with her to begin with. I get that you wanted to keep it ambigous with what she actually is, which would have worked in good Final Fantasy Tradition of a bizarre looking diabolo-ex machina. But she has a very distinct design that gets introduced earlier in the game, which makes it unsatisfying that she is just a personigication of a hive mind. Making her a witch of the past makes more sense with the final dungeon and Ellione junctioning them to the past. Question would still linger why she choose to intervine now? Was she already controling Adel? Was Edea the first who was weak enough to succumb to her? Does the discovery of the lunatic pandora affected it? Pushing Ultimecias introduction by Edea at the start of disc 3 to Odyne at the end is might the reason the explanation feels so cramped



I hope this is helpful in any way. I wish you happy holidays
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-27 18:47:56
@FatherMcKenzie
 I've just uploaded the latest update, which includes all of your corrections!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-27 18:53:17
@dillez
  In regards to Ragnarok, as I have said before, Succession is compatible with anything that doesn't change the field.fs files. That makes it compatible with almost all graphical mods, and around 85% of Ragnarok.

  I use Ragnarok regularly, and love it, and Succession is compatible with all of the battle related changes, and character/ability changes. But any event related changes (extra battles, quests, item rewards, drawpoints, card locations) are, very sadly, not compatible at this point.
 
  I do, however, plan to soon release a compatibility version of Martial Law. It is a re-balanced version that plays well with Ragnarok. It is the version I currently use.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-27 18:59:11
I'd be open to a version of the mod where you do all the changes you want even if it is incompatible with other mods, just saying  ;D The only mod I ever use is the music mod so to play your rewrite exactly as you wanted it to be would be amazing
  That's tempting, but it would really be less than a dozen lines at most, and the only plot critical ones would likely be from Ultimecia at the end of the game. Probably not worth anyone's time. Making a version for the Remaster, and a fully compatible Ragnarok version, are far higher on my list.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2020-12-27 22:17:33
Spoiler: show

I can't really think of an explanation either, aside from (1) Rinoa saving his life (2) Edea spares his life to extract information or (3) Squall is dead theory. It's a tough one. Maybe #2 is Occam's razor.

  I just updated Seifer's dialogue in the cell with Squall, right after Squall wakes up. I sort of took the approach of option 2, not because Edea needs information, but in light of the offer Seifer makes Squall. It's not a full explanation, more of a throw away line that avoids the 'how' in favor of answering the 'why'. It feels like a bit of a concession, but I'm trying to work with what I've been given.
Spoiler: show

Seifer
”Squall...?  What's wrong?
 Haven't you recovered, yet?“
Seifer
”Are you surprised to be
 alive?“
Seifer
”The Sorceress made sure
 to avoid a fatal blow.“
Seifer
”Trust me, if she had wanted
 you dead, you would be.“
Seifer
”You're not entirely useless
 to her...at least, not yet.“

Seifer
”Take him!“
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: goat on 2021-01-05 03:02:44
Wow.

I finished FFVIII and it was fantastic with your mod.

I have to admit that I'm happy I used it. I was watching my GF play through the rest of the game, and whew.
It's just... not as good as yours. So thanks for the amazing experience. I'll never forget it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2021-01-08 18:27:02
Wow.

I finished FFVIII and it was fantastic with your mod.

I have to admit that I'm happy I used it. I was watching my GF play through the rest of the game, and whew.
It's just... not as good as yours. So thanks for the amazing experience. I'll never forget it.
  Thank you so much!  I knew this mod would be a little out of the ordinary. I'm very glad to hear that you enjoyed it.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2021-01-23 19:02:00
@zenebazh Thank you for all the feedback!  I was very excited to hear how much you liked it.


Things I would do differently

Rinoa/Ellone:
Spoiler: show

  • Rinoa coming-out as sorceress in FH really cheapens Elliones reveal a lot for me. Its just 1 hour of gameplay between it and it does not give the player and Squall enough time to digest. Up untill Elliones confession we just had heard of evil sorceresses,  thus making Squall now revalue his worldview. It doesnt feel natural for Squall to stay calm and not adressing the matter after discovering that another sorceress is in their midst.

  Yes, I agree that, in terms of pacing, those two moments are too close together, and I would have changed that if I could. The problem is that there is no other appropriate moment for Rinoa to share her secret with Squall.
Spoiler: show
  I agree with you that Squall needed more time to re-evaluate his view of sorceresses. I was looking for another scene during disc 2 that would give him that opportunity, but I couldn't find one.
  Also, I never wanted for you to think of Rinoa's reveal as cheap, but I did want it to have less of an emotional impact than for Ellone. Squall idolizes Ellone, and for most of the game, he has much stronger feelings for her than for Rinoa. I wanted to make that contrast very apparent by showing how differently Squall reacts to each person's reveal.
  When Ellone tells Squall she is a sorceress, it shatters his entire conception of her, and forces him to re-evaluate how he sees the world. But when Rinoa tells Squall she is a sorceress, he thinks she's joking.
  At this point in the story, Squall doesn't value Rinoa's safety enough to be worried for her, and he doesn't think highly enough of her to realistically consider her a threat. He is also attracted to her, so he doesn't want to consider actively fighting against her. So, until something changes, he is unsure what to do, and he simply agrees to keep her secret for the time being.
  My goal was to highlight how wrong Squall was to dismiss her when we see her pivotal role in the events of the 3rd and 4th discs. This is especially true since I changed the circumstances surrounding Edea's loss of power. It is now the result of direct action that Rinoa knowingly took in an attempt to 'cure' Edea, rather than Rinoa simply being the victim of bad luck.
  Of course, please let me know if I failed to convey any of that.
(Also, which music did you have for the concert scene? If you chose anything but the full 'Irish Jig', then you got a far more truncated conversation. The 'Irish Jig is the only one that gives Rinoa the chance to argue her case for Squall's support, and it's the one I would recommend achieving.)


Rinoa:
Spoiler: show

  • I actually liked how in vanilla the player can only guess Rinoas sorceress status after the Battle of the gardens but is still left in the dark untill she finally tells us at the Raganrok. You already put a lot of hints in your rewrite which would make the vanila reveal more natural and coherent already, without losing the arc of anticipation it already had.

  I'm afraid I may be misunderstanding you, but I'll add this for the sake of clarity.
Spoiler: show
  In the original game, no one is a sorceress until they inherit powers from another sorceress. Rinoa did not become a sorceress until the Garden battle, when she gained Edea's power. One of the most significant changes my mod made was to make Rinoa (and every other sorceress) a sorceress from birth.
  That is why I wasn't able to wait until the Ragnarok scene to reveal Rinoa's nature, because in my mod, her entire motivation throughout her life hinges on her being a sorceress, and suffering a massive guilt complex as a result. Unlike the original, I worked really hard to ensure that Rinoa was more than a mere 'damsel in distress'. I really hope I was able to properly convey that.
  What I had hoped to bring to culmination in the Ragnarok was far more than the revelation that Rinoa was a sorceress. I wanted to show her sense of despair that she could never live a normal life because of her 'curse'. This was a fear that had been plaguing her since she was a child, when she first discovered she was a sorceress. After seeing the problems she had caused in space (and elsewhere), she finally gave up hope. And this provides a much more personal sense of justification for her willingness to sacrifice herself for 'the good of the world'.
  I think this is by far the most impactful change to the story that I've made, especially considering how vacuous her vanilla character was. But since I haven't received any particular compliments for it, I'm starting to wonder if I utterly dropped the ball in trying to elevate Rinoa's story.


White SeeDs:
Spoiler: show

  • Overcomplicating the White Seeds origin. I dont see any contradictions with them being dispatched by Edea to keep Ellione safe. This explains much better why Laguna wasn't abel to find her again. Instead of thinking she is dead.

  Yup. I'm glad you mentioned this. I didn't see a contradiction either, at first. While it doesn't create a contradiction for the plot, it does create a massive contradiction for the motivations for certain characters, namely Edea and Laguna. And please forgive me ahead of time, because this will be a bit long.
Spoiler: show
  For Edea, there is no contradiction in the original game. She met Squall in the past, and therefore began making plans to create an army that would be able to defeat her at some point in the future. Perfectly fine.
  But in my mod, Time Compression isn't a thing, and she never meets Squall in the past. Without meeting Squall, there is no good reason why Edea would ever strive to create an army to defeat her, especially given the changes I made to her backstory with Cid and the orphanage. I didn't intend this. It was just one of several unintended consequences of removing Time Compression. But it meant that I also had to change where Ellone's protectors came from.

  And for Laguna, the vanilla game has one glaring character contradiction that (in my opinion, at least) is easily as bad, if not as obvious, as the amnesia.
  Why did Laguna ever stop looking for Ellone?
  Please imagine a scenario with me. As a child, you had a father who loved you. But when you were five, he decided to send you off to live with your mother, and you never heard from him again. Then your mother passed away, and you were forced to live in an orphanage until you became an adult. Years later, you discover that he has been the president of Japan for FIFTEEN YEARS. When you ask him what he's been doing with his life, and why he never bothered trying to find you, he says this:

"Your mother was dead.
 You were missing.
 My job kept me busy."

"I was left here thinking
 about this and that
 and before I knew it,
 all this time had passed."

  THIS is how Laguna attempts to justify his utter complacency to Squall. Laguna had become the president of the most powerful country in the world, and yet he couldn't be bothered to divert any resources into continuing to look for his surrogate daughter, the girl he had already traveled across the entire world in order to rescue.
  Somehow, for over fifteen years, he couldn't be bothered to find the time or the money to have someone ask around Winhill in order to discover that Raine had died while pregnant with his child, something that every other member of Winhill most likely knew, or to find out where the kids were sent after Raine passed. I personally have the resources to hire someone who could do that for me right now, and I'm not even the president of a small country, yet.
  This, in my opinion, is not only a contradiction in Laguna's character, it is a ridiculous plot contrivance which only exists to allow the rest of the events of the story to take place.
  Laguna needed a far more definitive reason to stop looking for Ellone. That's why he had to think she was dead.

  I admit that how I accomplished this may be overly complicated, and even contrived, but at least it doesn't allow Laguna to remain a dead-beat father who was apparently indifferent to causing Squall and Ellone significant abandonment issues. Issues that serve as one of the defining aspects of both their characters for the entire game.


Ultimecia/Time Compression:
Spoiler: show

  • Your other big rewrite is the Time Compression. Besides the poor execution and explaination, I hadn t such a huge problem with that aspect from vanila, though I understand why others had.
     I like your concept of this ancestor-sorceress power source (reminds me of the Bene Geseritt in Dune), but the way you deal with Ultimecia actually worsens the problem people had with her to begin with. I get that you wanted to keep it ambigous with what she actually is, which would have worked in good Final Fantasy Tradition of a bizarre looking diabolo-ex machina. But she has a very distinct design that gets introduced earlier in the game, which makes it unsatisfying that she is just a personigication of a hive mind. Making her a witch of the past makes more sense with the final dungeon and Ellione junctioning them to the past. Question would still linger why she choose to intervine now? Was she already controling Adel? Was Edea the first who was weak enough to succumb to her? Does the discovery of the lunatic pandora affected it? Pushing Ultimecias introduction by Edea at the start of disc 3 to Odyne at the end is might the reason the explanation feels so cramped

  I think I agree with your first point. I don't have a problem with Time Compression as much in theory as I do with how it was explained and implemented. (Though, as a rule, I would try to avoid time travel in any story unless it was a story specifically about time travel, because otherwise it invariably becomes deus ex machina.)
Spoiler: show
  I definitely agree about how cramped it feels at the very end. It was and continues to be my greatest disappointment with my mod. I had originally intended to keep Ultimecia's reveal where it was, with Edea's scene at the start of disc 3. But I wanted to offer more information about Seifer and the Lunatic Pandora, as well as focus the scene on Rinoa's plight and Squall's reaction to it. I think this was a very good decision, especially considering how much praise I've received for that scene specifically.
  But, in order to keep THAT scene from getting too cramped, I had to push back discussion of Ultimecia all the way to Odine. This is because the plot moves at lightning speed as soon as you get to Esthar. This is great for pacing, but awful for establishing a final villain to an epic tale. This was just as much of an issue with the vanilla story, given how poorly Ultimecia was explained by Edea in the first place. My struggle in this area exposes the structural problems that already existed in the original story.
  What I really want is an extra scene with Odine and Edea discussing sorcery, right after they get to Esthar, before they go to space. (I still don't see any justification for why Squall was allowed to take Rinoa to space in the first place. It was a waste of resources and an obvious danger to everyone. Practically speaking, Rinoa and Edea should have been confined and monitored until Laguna and Ellone returned. And Odine should have used that time to study them both and explain everything he knew to Squall. Of course, then we wouldn't have had all that fun in space.) Unfortunately, I have to work with what we have, not what would I wish for.
  I've got another idea. Would you be willing to accept a data log entry at Squall's desk that explains everything in detail? (Just kidding!)

  I am working on a revision of Odine's monologue, and I'll release it as soon as I am able. And thanks again for all the very astute feedback!  It's been highly valuable, and has helped me clarify my perspective.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: zenebazh on 2021-01-25 16:18:34
Thanks for taking the time to reply to feedback! :)

Spoiler: show
  I agree with you that Squall needed more time to re-evaluate his view of sorceresses. I was looking for another scene during disc 2 that would give him that opportunity, but I couldn't find one.
  Also, I never wanted for you to think of Rinoa's reveal as cheap, but I did want it to have less of an emotional impact than for Ellone. Squall idolizes Ellone, and for most of the game, he has much stronger feelings for her than for Rinoa. I wanted to make that contrast very apparent by showing how differently Squall reacts to each person's reveal.
  When Ellone tells Squall she is a sorceress, it shatters his entire conception of her, and forces him to re-evaluate how he sees the world. But when Rinoa tells Squall she is a sorceress, he thinks she's joking.
  At this point in the story, Squall doesn't value Rinoa's safety enough to be worried for her, and he doesn't think highly enough of her to realistically consider her a threat. He is also attracted to her, so he doesn't want to consider actively fighting against her. So, until something changes, he is unsure what to do, and he simply agrees to keep her secret for the time being.
  My goal was to highlight how wrong Squall was to dismiss her when we see her pivotal role in the events of the 3rd and 4th discs. This is especially true since I changed the circumstances surrounding Edea's loss of power. It is now the result of direct action that Rinoa knowingly took in an attempt to 'cure' Edea, rather than Rinoa simply being the victim of bad luck.
  Of course, please let me know if I failed to convey any of that.
(Also, which music did you have for the concert scene? If you chose anything but the full 'Irish Jig', then you got a far more truncated conversation. The 'Irish Jig is the only one that gives Rinoa the chance to argue her case for Squall's support, and it's the one I would recommend achieving.)

I get your point and- dont get me wrong-  the dialogue is written very plausible and consistent for their characterizations and delivers what you meant to deliver (I just had the 'Eyes on Me' part, but I traced back the other dialogues via deling).
It is just , as you said yourself, more of an pacing issue.
Spoiler: show
I always felt the FH Scene served more to further establish Squalls character than Rinoas (also in-universe the whole concert is about Squall).
Focusing the scene on Rinoa being a sorceress only for it not be a major subject until the start of CD3 feels odd. I get that you wanted it to be coming up earlier, because the nature of sorceress is different in your rewrite, but it seems out-of-character for Rinoa to torpetize a romantic moment like this (especially telling Squall to get more loose seconds before) by getting all serious and vulnerable in outing herself.

Maybe the  reveal would fit in at the discussion with Edea (when she is telling him that Rinoa took her powers by choice) to imply that she is a sorceress, with Squall being aggressively ignorant on that idea in  this moment. His walk with Rinoa on the tracks to Esthar  would made him realize that fact and being remorseful for not seeing the signs way earlier.
I dont think it would hurt consistency-wise with your rewrite.


Spoiler: show
  In the original game, no one is a sorceress until they inherit powers from another sorceress. Rinoa did not become a sorceress until the Garden battle, when she gained Edea's power. One of the most significant changes my mod made was to make Rinoa (and every other sorceress) a sorceress from birth.
  That is why I wasn't able to wait until the Ragnarok scene to reveal Rinoa's nature, because in my mod, her entire motivation throughout her life hinges on her being a sorceress, and suffering a massive guilt complex as a result. Unlike the original, I worked really hard to ensure that Rinoa was more than a mere 'damsel in distress'. I really hope I was able to properly convey that.
  What I had hoped to bring to culmination in the Ragnarok was far more than the revelation that Rinoa was a sorceress. I wanted to show her sense of despair that she could never live a normal life because of her 'curse'. This was a fear that had been plaguing her since she was a child, when she first discovered she was a sorceress. After seeing the problems she had caused in space (and elsewhere), she finally gave up hope. And this provides a much more personal sense of justification for her willingness to sacrifice herself for 'the good of the world'.
  I think this is by far the most impactful change to the story that I've made, especially considering how vacuous her vanilla character was. But since I haven't received any particular compliments for it, I'm starting to wonder if I utterly dropped the ball in trying to elevate Rinoa's story.

Sorry maybe it was also unclear how I worded it  :-D
Spoiler: show
I really enjoyed how you portrayed Rinoa for the reasons you mentioned above. You gave her a more personal (and tragic) reasons to join the Timber Owls, traveling with the Seeds or  helping people in general. It gets clearer that her cheeriness is more about compensating her thoughtfulness and fear, instead of being a 'girly' brat like she came off sometimes in the original game.

Also the hints for her knowing to be a sorceress are placed very good and nuanced (loved how it gave the whole Odyne-Bangle affair such relevancy!)
I think your direction with her is wonderful and very elevated. Because she is such a pivotal character in terms of story relevancy (and screen-time for that matter) people are probably more nitpicky with her rewrite


  Yup. I'm glad you mentioned this. I didn't see a contradiction either, at first. While it doesn't create a contradiction for the plot, it does create a massive contradiction for the motivations for certain characters, namely Edea and Laguna. And please forgive me ahead of time, because this will be a bit long.
Spoiler: show
  For Edea, there is no contradiction in the original game. She met Squall in the past, and therefore began making plans to create an army that would be able to defeat her at some point in the future. Perfectly fine.
  But in my mod, Time Compression isn't a thing, and she never meets Squall in the past. Without meeting Squall, there is no good reason why Edea would ever strive to create an army to defeat her, especially given the changes I made to her backstory with Cid and the orphanage. I didn't intend this. It was just one of several unintended consequences of removing Time Compression. But it meant that I also had to change where Ellone's protectors came from.

  And for Laguna, the vanilla game has one glaring character contradiction that (in my opinion, at least) is easily as bad, if not as obvious, as the amnesia.
  Why did Laguna ever stop looking for Ellone?
  Please imagine a scenario with me. As a child, you had a father who loved you. But when you were five, he decided to send you off to live with your mother, and you never heard from him again. Then your mother passed away, and you were forced to live in an orphanage until you became an adult. Years later, you discover that he has been the president of Japan for FIFTEEN YEARS. When you ask him what he's been doing with his life, and why he never bothered trying to find you, he says this:

"Your mother was dead.
 You were missing.
 My job kept me busy."

"I was left here thinking
 about this and that
 and before I knew it,
 all this time had passed."

  THIS is how Laguna attempts to justify his utter complacency to Squall. Laguna had become the president of the most powerful country in the world, and yet he couldn't be bothered to divert any resources into continuing to look for his surrogate daughter, the girl he had already traveled across the entire world in order to rescue.
  Somehow, for over fifteen years, he couldn't be bothered to find the time or the money to have someone ask around Winhill in order to discover that Raine had died while pregnant with his child, something that every other member of Winhill most likely knew, or to find out where the kids were sent after Raine passed. I personally have the resources to hire someone who could do that for me right now, and I'm not even the president of a small country, yet.
  This, in my opinion, is not only a contradiction in Laguna's character, it is a ridiculous plot contrivance which only exists to allow the rest of the events of the story to take place.
  Laguna needed a far more definitive reason to stop looking for Ellone. That's why he had to think she was dead.

  I admit that how I accomplished this may be overly complicated, and even contrived, but at least it doesn't allow Laguna to remain a dead-beat father who was apparently indifferent to causing Squall and Ellone significant abandonment issues. Issues that serve as one of the defining aspects of both their characters for the entire game.

Makes total sense now. Thanks for clarifying!
Spoiler: show
I first thought that he and Ellone could still be in contact though, but this would contradict with Lagunna not knowing about Squall.
But as you noted, the whole motivation of Laguna becoming president is lacking in the first place.


I think I agree with your first point. I don't have a problem with Time Compression as much in theory as I do with how it was explained and implemented. (Though, as a rule, I would try to avoid time travel in any story unless it was a story specifically about time travel, because otherwise it invariably becomes deus ex machina.)
Spoiler: show
  I definitely agree about how cramped it feels at the very end. It was and continues to be my greatest disappointment with my mod. I had originally intended to keep Ultimecia's reveal where it was, with Edea's scene at the start of disc 3. But I wanted to offer more information about Seifer and the Lunatic Pandora, as well as focus the scene on Rinoa's plight and Squall's reaction to it. I think this was a very good decision, especially considering how much praise I've received for that scene specifically.
  But, in order to keep THAT scene from getting too cramped, I had to push back discussion of Ultimecia all the way to Odine. This is because the plot moves at lightning speed as soon as you get to Esthar. This is great for pacing, but awful for establishing a final villain to an epic tale. This was just as much of an issue with the vanilla story, given how poorly Ultimecia was explained by Edea in the first place. My struggle in this area exposes the structural problems that already existed in the original story.
  What I really want is an extra scene with Odine and Edea discussing sorcery, right after they get to Esthar, before they go to space. (I still don't see any justification for why Squall was allowed to take Rinoa to space in the first place. It was a waste of resources and an obvious danger to everyone. Practically speaking, Rinoa and Edea should have been confined and monitored until Laguna and Ellone returned. And Odine should have used that time to study them both and explain everything he knew to Squall. Of course, then we wouldn't have had all that fun in space.) Unfortunately, I have to work with what we have, not what would I wish for.
  I've got another idea. Would you be willing to accept a data log entry at Squall's desk that explains everything in detail? (Just kidding!)

I see what you mean
Spoiler: show
Yea the whole space detour is a really contrived plot development in the game. The struggle is to find any plausible  interest for Esthar to send them up there (Lagunas orders?).
I dont know yet how much you can insert new text boxes via deling, but maybe letting Ultimecia speaking some words for herself during the Flashback in the Space Pod could help? Nothing too expositionary but to get a better grasp on what she is and how she acts. Maybe even Ellone recognizes her as the Avatar of Succession or something?


Should be fine if you put everything in Quistis Tutorial ;)
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: eXistenZe on 2021-02-04 21:18:07
Hey there.
Looking at my original comments on this mod, I sounded like a dick. Sorry.
Did you finish the mod as you intended?
I'm guessing this mod will conflict with Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod, correct?
Looking to play FF8 again, but with some new challenges. Perhaps a new story would be great too.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2021-02-05 01:16:27
I always felt that Quistis is more of a friend who wants to be a *good friend* to Squall.

More like a friend with benefits I would say... ;) She also needs Squall to share her issues with him and demands his attention then getting shocked by his complete refusal to relate.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2021-02-16 05:00:08
Hey there.
Looking at my original comments on this mod, I sounded like a dick. Sorry.
Did you finish the mod as you intended?

  No worries!  I knew this mod was going to be a little out of the box, and not necessarily what most people were looking for.
  I would definitely say that, for the most part, I have wildly exceeded my own ambitions for this mod. But there are a few small challenges I haven't been able to overcome, and other posters here have done a good job of calling attention to them (and I greatly appreciate it).
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2021-02-16 05:06:48
I'm guessing this mod will conflict with Ragnarok Rebalancing Mod, correct?
Looking to play FF8 again, but with some new challenges. Perhaps a new story would be great too.
  In regards to Ragnarok, as I have said before, Succession is compatible with anything that doesn't change the field.fs files. That makes it compatible with almost all graphical mods, and around 85% of Ragnarok.

  I use Ragnarok regularly, and love it, and Succession is compatible with all of the battle related changes, and character/ability/junction changes. But any event related changes (extra battles, quests, item rewards, drawpoints, card locations) are, very sadly, not compatible at this point.
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: Percival on 2021-02-16 05:19:10
She also needs Squall to share her issues with him and demands his attention then getting shocked by his complete refusal to relate.
  I know, right!? 
  I worked really hard to broaden the tension between the two of them during that scene. I wanted to give them something more tangible to disagree about, rather than just their feelings for each other, while doing my best to maintaining that same emotional dynamic between them.
  Let me know what you think!
Title: Re: [FF8PC - Steam] Succession Mod (v.1.0)
Post by: LeonhartGR on 2021-02-19 23:41:29
  Let me know what you think!
"Whatever..."  ;D ;D

Honestly... I will deal with any FFVIII mods as soon as someone manages to find a way to import custom designs like those awesome renders I saw in that other thread and a proper Squall model other than the modified ones. Those mods actually looked pretty dope though, honestly. But I'm weird... so... whatever!  :|

P.S.: Also have to complete that retranslation of mine one day...  >:( I will try to do the same with yours after I'm done but that will take such a long time! I've currently fell in a loop vortex!