Qhimm.com Forums

Final Fantasy Forums => Tools => FF7 Tools => Topic started by: Aali on 2009-05-20 15:12:51

Title: [PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-20 15:12:51
http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.8b.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.8b.zip)

 - Fixed crash on export for some (broken) field files



So, I've been working on this nice editor for field files that will eventually let you replace any field backgrounds with high-res versions and now I need a name for it.
Any and all FF7-related suggestions are welcome, as long as they're not already taken by some other app.

Oh and here's a little preview of what it can do right now:
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9726/bg1h.png)
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/1686/bg2h.png)

I chose those two backgrounds simply because the old tool really borked them badly, this one can actually display every single field background in the game without any problems (minus special effects and animations, of course)




Updated with latest release
Title: Palmer
Post by: polaris_027 on 2009-05-20 15:27:00

wow this is good if it actually can edit all background pics
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-20 15:35:50
Good, you have found the third and fourth background sprites layer ^^, and you have understood the system when there are no palettes. :wink:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-20 15:58:25
I'm not sure how you can tell I've found the third and fourth sprite layer, since those aren't drawn on those screenshots :-P

But yes, I can load the entire format, all four layers, every texture, every palette, I just need to figure out animations and the additive blending stuff.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-20 16:14:41
 :-D I know how to open field backgrounds.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-20 16:19:46
Of course, if I hadn't found those things, how could I be reading the image data correctly.. clever :-P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-05-20 18:08:55
Well if it's going to be editing EVERY background throughout the game... I think the FFVII world is referred to as Gaia (ex: Gaia's Cliffs) so maybe Gaia would be appropriate?  And it keeps with the tradition of all programs being named after something in the game.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: NFITC1 on 2009-05-20 18:44:30
Gaia would be a better name for an overworld editor. Maybe something more like "Bone Village" would be better since they're always digging away at the ground.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: koral on 2009-05-20 20:49:40
Strangely, the name which popped into my head was "Highwind", probably because of your screenie :-P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: BlitzNCS on 2009-05-20 21:08:42
xD me too, koral. Sadly It's already taken.

as for a name, i'm not so sure. Perhaps the most obvious name of all should be used for this, since you see his field model the most. "Cloud"

editor looks like its gonna be epic too :D i've always wanted to do this.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-20 21:11:49
since this is an editor....how about the name of the world (official)

Gaia.

other names maybe:

Lucrecia, kalm, Zolom, Summon, Mako, Gelnika, Corel, Condor, Meteor, Reunion, Corneo, Dio, Valentine, Strife, various 2nd names, lifestream, mideel, Zack, GreatGospel, Shinra, Shera, SisterRay,  .....

My faves are Gaia, Strife, Zolom (although you may wish to use the correctly translated name) and SisterRay

That will do
 
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: NFITC1 on 2009-05-20 21:22:06
Strangely, the name which popped into my head was "Highwind", probably because of your screenie :-P


Except that Highwind is already taken (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6389.0).
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-20 21:22:48
Strangely, the name which popped into my head was "Highwind", probably because of your screenie :-P


Except that Highwind is already taken (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6389.0).

he knew that :P  I think....
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 00:08:04
I like Mako myself. "Mako field background editor"

Or "Lifestream" if that already isn't used.

Great job though Aali, Another amazing project that i'm sure will be very well written  :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-05-21 01:36:18
I don't think anyone will make an overworld editor, and if they do I don't see anyone taking the time to model all of that...  But if they do that would be INSANE! 

Anyways, I keep my original preference of Gaia, but Lifestream seems like a good one too.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: -Ric- on 2009-05-21 01:40:08
name it "Palmer"  :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 02:06:10
If Palmer is not taken already I want it :-P

I like Gaia, but as you said it's not a world editor. Mako is another great name but, well, Palmer is too funny to pass up on :-P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 02:07:16
If Palmer is not taken already I want it :-P

I like Gaia, but as you said it's not a world editor. Mako is another great name but, well, Palmer is too funny to pass up on :-P

I thought palmer was taken.  oh god dont call it after that "good for nothing fat bastard" :mrgreen: :lol: :lol:  actually it does sound funny :P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 02:16:55
I love it! XD
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 02:23:07
I can't find anything called Palmer, so I'm just gonna go with it for now.

And here's a little status update:

Additive blending works now:
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/5241/ancnt11.png)

Animations too (the user interface is hideous, though :-P):
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9581/ancnt12.png)

Time to start working on import/export functions :-)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 02:54:52
 :lol:
sh*t, its palmer  :lol:

That is good work though and I am blind....

edit.

How would one go about editing the animations though?  Surely this would be a huge task?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-05-21 03:05:33
The animations are usually something simple like a light turning on and off, or a door closing.  If someone was already taking up the job of redrawing one of the backgrounds, a simple door or light would be a pretty miniscule task comparatively.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 03:07:32
and how would anyone actually be able to draw something as good as that?  I take it we are talking serious artistic  talent here? And to do all the areas of the game would be a monumental task.  I look forward

in any case this project is very similar to ff7mimic by snailrush and looking at all the ingame screens is fun!

hey Aali....perhaps you could add an option to save all screens to separate png files?  Snailrush allowed you to flash through them but there was no way to save all
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 03:13:36
No huger task than it was to create them in the first place, hopefully.

There will be two modes of operation, one exports the raw, paletted textures used, so you can edit those and still stay compatible with the original data format.
These can then be re-imported and will work just fine in unmodified 1.02

The other option will be to export the entire scene as a number of images, each representing different animation states. These can then be filtered, resized or whatever and when you re-import them, the application will create replacement textures for use with the OpenGL driver (version 0.7b). The kicker here of course is that there are no restrictions in size or color depth.

Later on I may very well add the ability to create entirely new backgrounds and allow you to completely redefine the animations as you see fit, but the primary goal is to be able to replace existing backgrounds with higher-quality versions.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 03:17:06
Amazing job Aali, now everyone quick, start making 1280 X 960 backgrounds!!! haha :lol:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-05-21 03:17:39
Somewhat on topic:

I'm not positive, but isn't there some kind of tool in Photoshop that keeps pictures looking very true to the original when resized larger?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 03:19:44
Amazing job Aali, now everyone quick, start making 1280 X 960 backgrounds!!! haha :lol:

 :-D  i could do that  but I am guessing you don't want squiggles from MSpaint?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 06:00:55
Somewhat on topic:

I'm not positive, but isn't there some kind of tool in Photoshop that keeps pictures looking very true to the original when resized larger?

If so i need to see if i can borrow my friends PC with Photoshop on it, Cause then it won't be as hard as i thought.

Amazing job Aali, now everyone quick, start making 1280 X 960 backgrounds!!! haha :lol:

 :-D  i could do that  but I am guessing you don't want squiggles from MSpaint?

We'll start up on it right now haha :lol:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: BlitzNCS on 2009-05-21 17:12:24
Think i could add in this?:
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/UntitledTVOO-1.png)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Grimmy on 2009-05-21 17:30:10
This is amazing! Come on though call it anything other than Palmer. My vote goes to Moogle or Mog.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: squallff8 on 2009-05-21 17:52:11
This is amazing! Come on though call it anything other than Palmer. My vote goes to Moogle or Mog.

Yeah! Moogle will be great :wink:

Soon will be able completely rebuild original FF7! :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 18:14:58
Think i could add in this?:
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/UntitledTVOO-1.png)

Wow, Did you do this? That is amazing!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 18:17:44
Think i could add in this?:
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/UntitledTVOO-1.png)

Wow, Did you do this? That is amazing!


That is from the ps3 demo and was offiicially made by Square
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 19:02:47
Oh, i was about to praise we had someone to talented haha.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: BlitzNCS on 2009-05-21 19:17:39
xD if i'd made it myself i'd have added the extra bits you cant see in that pic that are present in the original one. theres a lot of stuff cut out of the top and bottom because of widescreen nowadays. that's why i was asking if adding it in is an option, since there isn't as much data as the original one, but it looks like it should encompass the entire 3D field.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 19:19:49
Hmm, well. guess we look into that photoshop option to see if it's possible?

Seems there is a "Bicubic smoother" that can be used in Photoshop CS and above.

Anyone have Photoshop to test this with?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 20:04:51
Use resize image with nearest neighbor option + tiny blur :
original background (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-sd1.png)
result (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1.png)

Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 20:14:02
I dont see a tiny blur?  Mind you mine is old version.....time to update!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 20:17:00
Use resize image with nearest neighbor option + tiny blur :
original background (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-sd1.png)
result (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1.png)



I see the blur, but it is WAY better then the old version, I think we are getting somewhere with this, Thanks a lot Myrt6re.

Maybe there are other settings to make it look better, I'm not familiar with Photoshop, Nor do i have it haha.. Else i'd poke around
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 20:19:54
I dont see a tiny blur?

Without blur (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1-withoutBlur.png)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 20:20:33
I dont see a tiny blur?

Without blur (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1-withoutBlur.png)

Awesome job, Guess that answers my previous statement.

How long did it take to resize those? Maybe i can borrow my friends PC with photoshop, Or use GIMP to help you out.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 20:32:58
How long did it take to resize those? Maybe i can borrow my friends PC with photoshop, Or use GIMP to help you out.

All is done in two seconds with a script. But we must have all backgrounds in a folder.


I hate bicubic (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1-bicubicsmoother.png)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 20:39:01
How long did it take to resize those? Maybe i can borrow my friends PC with photoshop, Or use GIMP to help you out.

All is done in two seconds with a script. But we must have all backgrounds in a folder.


I hate bicubic (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1-bicubicsmoother.png)

I figured the others were in bicubic haha. Guess not, Though i think the blur is to add an AA effect to the image. Could be wrong.

How did you extract the backgrounds? I extracted the files from the .lpg, but i don't know how to load them up

EDIT: The backgrounds default is 512 X 512? but the default of FF7 is 640 X 480 isn't it?

Edit2: Typo fix  :-P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 20:53:46
How did you extract the backgrounds? I extracted the files from the .lpg, but i don't know how to load them up

 :-o open the backgrounds is very very VERY complicated! This is not a simple image! Qhimm wiki (http://wiki.qhimm.com/FF7/Field_Module)

EDIT: The backgrounds default is 512 X 512? but the default of FF7 is 640 X 380 isn't it?

FF7 -> 640*480
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 20:54:44
Yeah sorry, mis hit the 3 key
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 20:56:18
Yeah i'll just wait for Aali to release his tool haha. Leave the tech stuff the the pro's ya know?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 20:57:41
Not to mention the info in the wiki is an oversimplification that:

1. Is missing a lot of little (and some big) things.
2. Won't produce 100% correct results anywhere.
3. Will fail spectacularly with some files :-P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 20:59:49
How long did it take to resize those? Maybe i can borrow my friends PC with photoshop, Or use GIMP to help you out.

All is done in two seconds with a script. But we must have all backgrounds in a folder.


I hate bicubic (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1-bicubicsmoother.png)

hopefully aali will allow the backgrounds to be auto saved as separate png/bmp files?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: lorddolor1989 on 2009-05-21 21:00:03
Hey ,what about Ragnarok?Or Anastacia?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-21 21:00:45
I was just about to ask if you were still working on your driver, But i can see you still are  :-D

Although, would it be better to make image sizes 1280 * 960? since thats the common (i think) size for playin FF7 at now. Or maybe 2048 * 2048? or are there technical limitations on that?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 21:59:57
You shouldn't think of it in terms of absolute size. The original field backgrounds can be up to 2^16x2^16 pixels large. You should probably resize everything by a factor of 4 (320x240->1280x960), anything larger and the files will be huge.

But, assuming you do resize things (this will never be compatible with the original engine), as long as your hardware can take it there is no upper limit.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 22:02:25
I wrote an article that talks about the backgrounds, but in french : Section 9 : backgrounds (http://www.wikisquare.com/ff7/technique/field/bg)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 22:27:08
I suggest after running the enlarging portion, you then apply sharpen.   It seems to work very well.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/ff7-sharpenedandenlarged.png
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 22:50:18
Like this (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1-sharpen.png) ? I know is no much.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 22:52:27
I wrote an article that talks about the backgrounds, but in french : Section 9 : backgrounds (http://www.wikisquare.com/ff7/technique/field/bg)

Using google translate, I can see that you've found most of the stuff I have :-)

I have some other obscure features implemented that I'm not sure any of the original data uses. (For example, the only layer that must exist is layer1, layers 2, 3 and 4 are all optional and can exist in any combination, so you could have a field file with only layer 1 and 3 or whatever and FF7 would still load that correctly)

The way you search for texture pages seemed odd to me at first but I think it's more of a problem with the translation, the first two bytes of the header define if the page is present or not, and if it isn't you should go on to the next page. (And looking at the code, you seem to be doing roughly that, except you check specifically for 1, any value is actually okay as long as its not 0)

Oh and the non-paletted format is R5G6B5, not RGB5551 :wink:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Vehek on 2009-05-21 22:57:06
While it wasn't an editor, Aeris (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6106.0) was able to render those two fields Aali showed just fine. I don't think The_Saint released the documentation, and this is probably the first viewer since to properly render the fields.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 23:04:53
I have some other obscure features implemented that I'm not sure any of the original data uses. (For example, the only layer that must exist is layer1, layers 2, 3 and 4 are all optional and can exist in any combination, so you could have a field file with only layer 1 and 3 or whatever and FF7 would still load that correctly)

When layer4 exists, layer3 also exists, when layer 3 exists, layer2 also exists... ^^   That is all I can say

Oh and the non-paletted format is R5G6B5, not RGB5551 :wink:

Thank you, I love you Aali! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-05-21 23:07:04
Like this (http://wikisquare.com/public/ff7-hd1-sharpen.png) ? I know is no much.

no yours is pixellated.  cs4 has bilinear (optimised for enlarging).  You must have used nearest neighbour
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 23:08:29
I have some other obscure features implemented that I'm not sure any of the original data uses. (For example, the only layer that must exist is layer1, layers 2, 3 and 4 are all optional and can exist in any combination, so you could have a field file with only layer 1 and 3 or whatever and FF7 would still load that correctly)

When layer4 exists, layer3 also exists, when layer 3 exists, layer2 also exists... ^^   That is all I can say

Oh and the non-paletted format is R5G6B5, not RGB5551 :wink:

Thank you, I love you Aali! :mrgreen:

Err, obviously that was supposed to be BGR, not RGB :-P
After reading the header for layer1 (which by the way is two bytes longer, tiles start with their x/y coords), and after you've read all those tiles, there's a byte indicating the presence of layer2, if it isn't there you check the next byte for layer3 and so on :-)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 23:18:22
For me, the layers 2/3/4 start always with 0x01e002800100.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 23:23:18
Layer 2 has a 26-byte header, all 16-bit words, starting with width,height and number of tiles.
Layers 3 and 4 have a 20-byte header, also all 16-bit words and also starting with the same information.

(I have gathered this information straight from the original code, so I'm fairly sure its correct)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-21 23:40:38
Specifically:

Layer 2 :
 - 1 byte : 0x01
 - 2 words : 640 (width) 480 (height)
 - word : number of tiles
 - 8 words : unknow
 - word : 0x00 0x00
 - number of tiles * 52 : tiles
 - word : 0x00 0x00

Layer 3 :
 - 1 byte : 0x01
 - 2 words : 640 (width) 480 (height)
 - word : number of tiles
 - 5 words : unnecessary ? (Always null ?)
 - word : 0x00 0x00
 - number of tiles * 52 : tiles
 - word : 0x00 0x00

Layer 4 :
 - 1 byte : 0x01
 - 2 words : 640 (width) 480 (height)
 - word : number of tiles
 - 5 words : unknow
 - word : 0x00 0x00
 - number of tiles * 52 : tiles
 - word : 0x00 0x00

edit: OK
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-21 23:50:52
Move that by 2 bytes (since your tiles start 2 bytes too early) and you get x01 x80 x02 xe0 x01

The first byte, 0x01 tells us that layer 2 is present, 0x280 is 640, a reasonable width, while 0x1E0 is 480. :-)

(I don't use the width/height anywhere though so I'm not 100% sure what it represents)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-22 00:06:03
0x280 is 640, a reasonable width, while 0x1E0 is 480. :-)

(I don't use the width/height anywhere though so I'm not 100% sure what it represents)

These bytes are constant (I think :?), so I did not try to understand them :|. Thanks.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Arsirus UK on 2009-05-22 14:34:56
Iv`e been serching for weeks for an editor like this when will it be available???

I have already edited 25% of the FMV`s ingame and this was my next step.

I used the train image from the PS3 Tech Demo too I`m going to try and edit the backgrounds from Crisis core if I can get into the image files. And use them as a template.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-22 19:43:14
http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.1a.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.1a.zip)

A very first test release, its not capable of actually changing anything, but it should render everything correctly.
Play around with it, see if you can find any bugs :-)

(Left mouse button opens main menu, hold middle mouse button to move around, right mouse button opens the utilities menu, mouse wheel zooms)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-22 19:55:11
Look zcoal_1 and zcoal_3 :evil:.

Seriously, it's very promising :-).


edit: You should put all state 1 to "on".
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Grimmy on 2009-05-22 19:58:01
It's a good viewer when will it be able to save/import and export, I would love to get crackin at this.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-22 20:05:57
zcoal_1 looks a bit odd.. zcoal_3 is okay though, just turn on the right animation states.

:EDIT: actually, zcoal_1 is okay too, just turn on state 1 in animation group 31 :wink:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-22 20:22:03
:EDIT: actually, zcoal_1 is okay too, just turn on state 1 in animation group 31 :wink:

I know...

   
I can not display the highwind in "junair" :?.


Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-22 20:39:49
Ah, that's actually just a problem with the menu, both parallax layer options show layer3, layer4 can not be accessed.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Ragna on 2009-05-23 18:14:18
Call me blind, but I can't find the download link, lol
Does it work with the psx version?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: myst6re on 2009-05-23 18:46:55
You may already know 7mimic (http://stforever.free.fr/fichiers/ff7/7mimic.zip)? no ? Try it today!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Ragna on 2009-05-23 18:54:48
I just want to test the so called "unnamed background editor".
Needless to say, I know 7mimic, lol. But still... curiosity...
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-23 19:19:54
It does not work with PSX data and probably never will. I have no interest in modding the PSX version and the primary purpose of this program (to allow insertion of high-res backgrounds) is not relevant on the PSX.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-26 07:32:32
Hey Aali, just wondering how progress is going and keeping this thread for going necro, I'd love to see better backgrounds in the game  :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: hotdog963al on 2009-05-26 10:33:17
It does not work with PSX data and probably never will. I have no interest in modding the PSX version and the primary purpose of this program (to allow insertion of high-res backgrounds) is not relevant on the PSX.
Aw, that's a shame, could be fun to alter the PSX fields (Alter, not increase Res).
I guess the file formats are quite different, anyway. :)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-05-26 13:18:35
Hey Aali, just wondering how progress is going and keeping this thread for going necro, I'd love to see better backgrounds in the game  :-D

It's certainly not dead, but there isn't a lot of visible progress right now, I'm trying to work out a good way to handle export/import. The textures the game uses are not very well organized (for a human, it's very efficient for the computer) and simply exporting the raw data would make it difficult to edit.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-26 18:59:29
Ohhh alright.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Cazador on 2009-05-28 05:29:59
If it can truely edit the field and allow us to replace the crappy backgrounds with high-res versions. Why not call it The Messiah or Jesus.....or Salvation.  :-P

nahh really, I have no ideas but I just wanted to say; Awesome Work!!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: drfeelgud88 on 2009-05-28 07:11:20
finishing touch? braver? lol idk im just bein silly here...
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-05-28 07:39:50
I'm so much looking forward for this tool to be released. IMHO, this tool the shapes and reforms Final Fantasy must have name worthy of its potential. In that respect, calling it "Palmer" would be... well... an insult, you know. FF7 players know that Palmer is the second most stupid and useless person in the game.

But don't ask me what else because all the names I can suggest are FF7-irrelevant stuff like "Karan S'jet", "Fleet Command", etc. You see, in FF7 there are no significant constructive powers except "Lifestream", "Holy", "Fullcure", "Healing Wind", "Final Gospel", "Revival", "Phoenix", "Condor" or "White Wind".
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-05-28 07:43:46
I'm so much looking forward for this tool to be released. IMHO, this tool the shapes and reforms Final Fantasy must have name worthy of its potential. In that respect, calling it "Palmer" would be... well... an insult, you know. FF7 players know that Palmer is the second most stupid and useless person in the game.

But don't ask me what else because all the names I can suggest are FF7-irrelevant stuff like "Karan S'jet", "Fleet Command", etc. You see, in FF7 there are no significant constructive powers except "Lifestream", "Holy", "Fullcure", "Healing Wind", "Final Gospel", "Revival", "Phoenix", "Condor" or "White Wind".

Already have pheonix. Lifestream would be a good, one, i suggested it already though  :-D

Think he's staying with Palmer though
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-06-01 19:16:14
Been a while since the last release.. I have export working and import for the custom driver mode should be working soon, too.

http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.2a.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.2a.zip)

Don't start up any large projects based on this export format, it may very well change in the next release. (If the export format changes you won't be able to import those files)

Feel free to suggest improvements to the export format, but keep in mind that no two tiles can overlap in the same .png file.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-06-02 06:57:55
At last! It is here.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-06-02 08:58:40
FEEDBACK
This the first feedback. Most of the items do not have a high severity rating, but I think it is a good thing that your application doesn't have any severe issue. Still, do not ignore them completely. Give them lower priority if you wish but experience tells me that subtle details can have suprising effects.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Arsirus UK on 2009-06-03 16:37:39
Nice work already got a few images lined up to go over the old ones already saved my first
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Arsirus UK on 2009-06-03 21:45:04
Aali do you want me to send one of the backgrounds ive redone to put back into the game??
ive used your editor and edited each layer
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-06-03 21:58:32
Just upload them anywhere and post the link here.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-06-04 06:42:39
Good work, Aali. Still no serious fault is found.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Arsirus UK on 2009-06-04 11:39:19
Heres the link to the midgar station edit
http://files.filefront.com/13851685
Its using a JPG image I took from the Tech demo of the train station.
Ive lined up all the images so the train, Floor, back and left wall have the same dimensions as the original.
As its a trial run ive used the same resolution don`t want to get carried away...
The file contains the 4 layers of the train station in PNG format ready to be converted back into the game.

There was a few issues with the dimensioning e.g ive had to cut the top of the train away as the train is lower down and has diffrent dimensions in the original.
Thats were Cloud jumps off the train from. The only other way around this would be to edit the sequance at the begining were Cloud, Barret, Wedge, Biggs and Jessie exit the train. But i`m not that good at programming
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-04 12:05:48
I know this is just a test but placing that background in the game would be nigh on impossible, because the train is in an fmv and when that fmv ends the whole scene will change.


Like I said this is prob just a cool test ;)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Arsirus UK on 2009-06-04 14:58:16
Ive already changed the intro video
The only problem is it goes from 16:9 in Video to 4:3 in game the only way round it would to be to change the invisible wall dimensions.
Or I might try to distort the end of the video so it fits in better.
Heres a link to the video I made
http://files.filefront.com/13851685
Its currently in TM2.0 codec only using the original resolution which I plan to update soon.
Heres the codec if you cant see the picture
http://files.filefront.com/13851685


I`m currently in the middle of creating a new FFVii Website for Modding it won`t just be my work i`ll be asking everyone if they want to contribute there work.
I`ll post the link once ive uploaded the website.

The Mod will be called Project Genesis...

Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Grimmy on 2009-06-04 15:17:08
After the last cut of the video you need to transform it to fit the new screen. Also add black bars to maintain the 16x9 and then fade them out near the end of the vid so they reveil the rest of the transformed scene. Then it will fade in better. Look at the ending of otokoshi's opening as reference.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Opine on 2009-06-04 21:31:15
This background editor is an absolutely jaw-dropping accomplishment. I almost follow Cazador's train of thought. I realize the name will probably stick as Palmer, but to me, the name Promised Land fits well.

The Promised Land is what the Cetra sought after. And by golly if is this editor isn't going to bring it to us!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-13 19:25:56
http://www.ononesoftware.com/detail.php?prodLine_id=2


Thought I should mention this package...

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new.png

There is the result from fractals.  I suggest we use this if we are to increase the size of image, it looks superior to me.

Compare it to the old method (best enlargement settings in CS4)

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new-oldmethodenlargement.png

and you can see that Fractals plugin comes out the winner.  Just check the difference in detail, the CS4 method is blurred.  The Fractals has maintained the detail, especially the edges.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-06-13 20:23:09
Definitely fractals.  Hands down.

After seeing that price tag, my guess is this is going to be a one or two man project.  I don't expect too many people will be jumping at the chance to fork out $200.00
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-06-13 20:32:23
This is looking pretty damn nice  :mrgreen:

It seems that the answer to the problem of low res backgrounds might be near...
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-13 21:06:13
Definitely fractals.  Hands down.

After seeing that price tag, my guess is this is going to be a one or two man project.  I don't expect too many people will be jumping at the chance to fork out $200.00

Well I can help with that project as well if needs be just give me a shout, at moment though my time is divided a bit by the other 2 projects,

Glad you liked the example though ;)

edit:  I don't understand what sizes we are supposed to be doing to be honest....is it just 2X the original for all back grounds?  I can do all of the backgrounds with fractals, but Aali will have to make an option so we can 'save as' the entire lot from his program.  I can then batch in Photoshop and put them back up for download.

And I do belive the demo is fully funcyional for 30 days....
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: arew264 on 2009-06-13 23:20:25
If someone was feeling completely crazy, they could remake a few scenes by reconstructing them in Blender, but I doubt that's realistic for even a segment of the game, even if we had a team of modelers. Still, it would be the best solution I can think of.
I'm learning Blender, and I might try this. I'm not new to 3d modeling, I'm just trying to move to *cough* legally *cough* acquired software. Stealing is bad.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: moses7 on 2009-06-13 23:39:16
@Seifer
So you guys are capable of making high res background just by resizing them?

Does that means you don't have to recreate every image on the game?

So are we going to have high res backgrounds pretty soon?

The background you showed are already good. Not only that, they are also Original except they're HIGH-RES.
I'd like those rather than waiting for people recreating every single background for a long time.
The Official FFVII could have already appeared then.

EDIT: Oh man, my mistake. I thought it looks good because Mozilla resized them and made them smaller.
EDIT: I think these backgrounds just need painting after resizing instead of recreating them. That will enable you to make them faster.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: DarkVenomandCarnage on 2009-06-13 23:49:43
Excellent work here Asirus!! I can't wait for someone to youtube "FFVII Remade" with all the mods here and make people think there really is an FFVII remake close to completion!!!

Why? Because the PC players won't need a remake! Look at it!
Palmer:Better backgrounds
AVHD Project:Better models! (CC,KH series, FF 8/9/10-/10-2, PRP, and APZ Cloud as placeholders)
ACC, CC, other sources, and Tech Demo:Better movies! (small pieces to be remade, but otherwise...)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Trenholm on 2009-06-14 02:24:55
Goddamn Aali you just keep on bringing in the awesome.  I hope this moves as fast as the OpenGL driver did.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-14 09:12:19
Without more knowledge of Photoshop, the best I can do is Fractals (high quality settings) > Sharpen (adobe) > Auto Colour > Auto Tone  and possibly a vibrance/colour/brightness/contrast changer depending on picture

Here is what I have for the opening screen:

original (with standard resize):

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new-oldmethodenlargement.png


Enhanced:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new-resize-sharpen-autocolourtone.png

Can someone give me a different picture to work with (I can't seem to use this program...?  keeps telling me it won't use a file size over 32 MB or something...probably just me though )
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-06-14 09:19:18
Without more knowledge of Photoshop, the best I can do is Fractals (high quality settings) > Sharpen (adobe) > Auto Colour > Auto Tone  and possibly a vibrance/colour/brightness/contrast changer depending on picture

Here is what I have for the opening screen:

original (with standard resize):

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new-oldmethodenlargement.png


Enhanced:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new-resize-sharpen-autocolourtone.png

Hmmm, the detail is great, but what happened to the colour on the second one? It looks a lot more blue/grey.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-14 09:41:12
That is auto colour and tone.  personally I think it is an improvement.  There is no way to know what the design team expected because that has been lost in the downgrading of the picture for the playstation.

The auto tone and colour part can be left out if needs be, the detail is provided by Fractals resize and then smart sharpen.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-14 09:58:43
Ok so here are the differences:

original with CS4 best settings resize:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new-oldmethodenlargement.png

Fractals with Smart Sharpen:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new-fractals-smartsharpenonly.png

Fractals with smart shapren, Auto colour and tone:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/new-resize-sharpen-autocolourtone.png
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-06-14 10:11:25
I like the middle one the most.  :-)

I feel that the colour in FF7 adds something to the atmosphere of game; it fells much warmer, something that you don't see in many games (especially today).
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-14 10:13:07
I tend to agree with you, but only because Midgar is supposed to be incredibly polluted (although even with that you could say it works)  Other areas of the game may benefit from tweaks to the colour or tone.  I need another background to experiment on.  That one is a bad choice

I dunno, see how people feel about all these options and methods, and then pick one.  My knowledge of enhancing is basic, there are probably ways to make this look even better
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-06-14 10:22:31
I tend to agree with you, but only because Midgar is supposed to be incredibly polluted

There's that too  :lol:

But I think that the rich, deep colours in FF7 add life and character to the game. When watching AC, I felt that it looked very washed out and watered down compared to the old FF7. CC wasn't so bad.

Of course, it may be that I've misinterpreted what you're trying to do with this, so it might help to see what some of the other scenes look like with colour tweaks.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: koral on 2009-06-14 10:23:29
Middle one for me too  :-)
The last one is too blue, and like Kudistos said, the warmer tones of the originals suggest a different atmosphere than the cold blue of the last.
You might want to look at that scene in Crises-Core too.

In fact, we could argue that the atmosphere of a background would be reflection of cloud's emotional state at that point in the game.
For Cloud, it may be the first time he returned to Midgar, hence the "homely" feeling. He did spend a lot of time in the city while SOLDIER afterall
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-14 10:30:30
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x74/beefpwnage/UntitledTVOO-1.png

However, this is whata  remake would most likely resemble in colour (and it does go more with darker and gloomier on the whole).  Yes I think we lose soemthing with a change of the brown tint, but at same time, the question is, was this deliberate or was it just a limit of technology :)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-06-14 10:42:21
If it wasn't deliberate, it might be one of those cases where a mistake has led to an improvement  :-P

And I think it's best not to try and imitate what a remake would look like, since Squeenix have changed the visual style of FF7 quite a lot with the compilation along with the other changes they have made to the franchise (look at how different Cloud and Sephiroth look now from the way they looked in the original concept art). The new visual style probably wouldn't go well with the old atmosphere or the old characters.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-06-14 14:35:14
The new visual style probably wouldn't go well with the old atmosphere or the old characters.
I believe there is more wisdom in this last statement of yours than most people (perhaps including yourself) realize. But suffice to say that there is a lot of wisdom in it.

However, let's stay on the crux of the matter: The Autocolor function in Adobe Photoshop is a deprecated function only used for photos that are taken in natural environments, with white light being predominant. It is only meant to correct a photography error as perceived by the human visual system. (Otherwise, if you take a picture from Antelope canyon and apply Autocolor to it, it will no longer be Antelope canyon. In such environments, you need to use either a Photo Filter or a Lense Filter.) But in Final Fantasy VII, a fully artificial environment, every tint, tone and contrast value is carefully and deliberately selected and applied. There is absolutely -- I repeat: absolutely -- no colorshifting error whatsoever.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-14 15:14:10
 :-P  yes you are right that it can't really be applied to every screen, it would not work.

But vibrance settings can.  In some fields, the colour may be a little washed out.  There is no harm in altering that to have a little bit more saturation,

Any case, the main thing here is that fractals + smart sharpen has made these backgrounds work well at double and triple the original resolution.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-06-14 16:00:38
^ Indeed, that's right.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: arew264 on 2009-06-14 18:17:39
You don't want to try to make something like that in Python. It's a nice language, but it's just too slow for something large-scale.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: arew264 on 2009-06-14 18:28:46
The blender engine is getting better each day. I heard over at the blender artist forum, that in a months time blender will be able to make AAA games. Without too much lag! So making something like Final Fantasy VII with python...it wouldn't lag too much. And python slow? I have no idea, but they use python for the most games out there. So lag is nothing to worry about. Then there is logic too of course, and states..so yeah.

Blender can run a GUI and a renderer. Nothing is truly done in real time.

"but they use python for the most games out there."
I don't know where you heard that, but it's completely false. Most games out there are written in C++, some with assembly code interspersed because C++ alone wasn't fast enough. We live in a world of hardware accelerated graphics and physics, and languages like Python simply aren't suited to high-performance applications. You can try, and you may come out with something that works decently well, but for truly interactive experiences, Python simply doesn't cut it.

Again, I'm a fan of the Python language, but it doesn't really have a place in game development. It can be used as an external scripting language that's pulled in by a game engine (that's actually done fairly often), and it can be used to create content creation tools, but it doesn't belong in the game engine itself. Interpreted languages just aren't fast enough for that. Java can kind of get away with it due to bytecode optimizations, but take a look at Runescape and tell me how interactive it feels. There are lag spikes, there's general slowness, and that's just with minimal 3d quality. Try putting in real high quality models, animation, and possibly even AI code, and the performance cost of an interpreted language starts strangling your game.

Just to demonstrate my point:
Unreal Engine (as seen in games from FPSs to RTSs): C++
Quake 4: C++
Quake 3: C
Havok (as seen in Halo): C++

Those are a few major engines. Python is useful for quickly producing moderately functional applications, but when you start talking about game design, it takes a back seat to compiled languages.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: arew264 on 2009-06-14 18:46:55
Okay, you seem to be unclear on the concept. Blender provides a graphics renderer. It supports at least basic real time animation, and probably camera manipulation, but a game is not a renderer. There's complex realtime physics, there's events, there's AI, there's character interaction, there's pathfinding, there's environment loading and unloading, there's timers, there's scripting, there's a thousand elements that you never think you need until you realize that they're missing.
Look around. Commercial games aren't ever written in python, though they might use it for scripted events. And I don't know about you, but I haven't seen any killer python games on the market or in the open source community.

Also, Blender is a content creation application. In general, if it runs inside Blender, it's probably not a game. I'm not insulting Blender there; it's just not what it was designed for. Games, particularly RPG's, require a whole new level of immersion that requires a completely different application design. Blender can make and build, but it can't truly play.

Ok then I was wrong with python. But the programming language doesn't decide how fast the engine is. Blender is capable of making great games. Just look at these screens below. All made in blender. So you are joking right, that it wouldn't be able to make a Final Fantasy VII game. Of course it's maybe not the best engine for the genre. But it's possible.
Actually, the programming language is almost entirely responsible for deciding how fast the game runs, if hardware is kept constant. In C++, the code is compiled into a straight binary that can be run by the CPU directly. In Python, the code is written, possibly compiled to a bytecode-equivalent (I forget what Python calls it), and then loaded by an interpreter. The interpreter has to compile the code to binary before the CPU can process it, creating a large overhead that is simply used to process the code, not to run your game. That overhead isn't a problem in applications like Blender, or in the many places where Python has been used successfully. When you start trying to run many frames in a second, and a frame consists of more than rendering, that overhead becomes unacceptable.
If nothing else, a major reason Python can work well for rendering is that it doesn't actually render anything, it just passes the data on to libraries of the renderer, be it DirectX or OpenGL. Guess what those libraries are written in? Yep, mostly C or Assembly Language. DirectX might include some C++.

I will admit it's possible, but if a project tried to write a replacement game engine in Python, the project would be in grave danger from the day of it's inception. The QGears project is already pursuing a goal like this, and, interestingly enough, they're writing it in C++.

Quote
So stop babbling about blender wouldn't be able to make a Final Fantasy VII. Lol final fantasy VII was made for the PS1...blender can make late PS2 graphics...soon pS3...
Actually, I'm "babbling" from the many game programming books I've written. I'm babbling from the many programming design books I've written. I'm babbling from my programming experiences.
I do agree with you though. Blender can make PS1, PS2, and PS3 graphics. However, Blender is not a game, a game engine, or a part of a game in any way. Blender is a content creation suite, an excellent one at that, but that is its purpose, and nothing more. People may try to extend it, but it will at best perform marginally compared to real applications designed from the ground up for this purpose.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: arew264 on 2009-06-14 19:02:32
*sigh*
Read the first two lines of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Blender

Better yet, I'll quote it:
"Game Blender is a sub-application of Blender, the popular free software 3D application, used to make games using Blender. The Game Engine was written from scratch in C++, including support for features like Python scripting and OpenAL 3D sound. Blender being programmed in C and Game Blender in C++ kept development strictly separated."

EDIT: Ok you know what you are talking about, and I don't understand what is the difference between the different languages. But blender engine is improving. Blender will soon not just be a content creation program..

That's beside the point. My point is that Python will not be a realistic language choice for a full engine rewrite of Final Fantasy VII. Game Blender is improving, yes, and that's proof that a C++ game engine can function very well.
I suggest you read the Wikipedia articles on Python and C++, and maybe do some research on the differences between compiled and interpreted languages.


Anyway, this has gone on way longer than it should have. I'll have to cite XKCD as to why I've debated this much: http://xkcd.com/386/
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: arew264 on 2009-06-14 19:37:46
I'm familiar with the concepts and how the language works, but I mostly do D and Java, with some C++ on the side. I haven't actually coded anything in Python
I'll print out some documentation on it. If nothing else, I need to learn a good interpreted language besides Java.

I'm going to be gone until Thursday; should I print out documentation on Python 2 or 3? I would just get a book, but the public library is closed on Sunday.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: ShinChan on 2009-06-19 11:59:36
Just to come back to resizing the original backgrounds to higher resolutions: I think with this Fractals Plugin it would really look 1000 times better than with the simple upscaling as it is done in the game at the moment!
Another idea I've thought of would be that we could also resize the videos! It would be a bit complicated and maybe quite much to do, but I think it would be cool :) We would have to extract every frame from the video, resize it with the Fractals Plugin and then make a video out of these frames again!
With both backgrounds and videos in higher resolutions, I think the game would look pretty damn good ;D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 12:04:48
To do as you suggest would take a bit of effort but is doable.  The frames would have to be extracted from the PSX version (which was used to make the PC one).  Movie encoded into a lossless codec like Lagarith.  Then from there into Virtualdub which can extract all frames in 1 go.

From there, they would need to be batched in photoshop and then remade into a lagarith file in virtualdub and then encoded (to something like h.264).

It would work and is a good idea.  I will test it soon with an FMV.  I have a bit of experience with editing and will use sony vegas too.

There may be an even easier way than this and I will look into it

A better way would be square releasing the original files.  So they can look like this>

(http://www.freewebs.com/tetsero/sephiroth%20fire.jpg)


Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-06-19 12:43:17
Actually, I've heard there is program called Video Enhancer from thedeemon.com that resizes video. But, say, doesn't this onOne Software (producer of Geniune Fractals) produce a video resizing tool?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 12:47:04
I think fractals is for photoshop...  I don't think so.

But fractals is the best when it comes to enlarging so I will now test a movie [resolution 2 X] :)  Will post it here soon.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 12:48:25
and I will look into that program of yours too
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 13:06:28
I have now made a file which is 2.5X the original size.

800*560

The results from that program you sent me are great.  Much better than normal resize.

Now I will see what happens when I use fractals and upload both.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-06-19 14:23:58
Fascinating.

Looking a few pages back, there are several things that I'd like to comment on. I dont beleive the game needs any color correction, it blew everyones mind 10 years ago, and successfully upscaling will do just as well. (to be honest the new style looks a lil less genuine) As to remaking all the backgrounds in 3d... its doable... I could do them fast enough but the real issue with changing the game objects, backgrounds etc. is the scale and style issue. In field, there is a chibi style, in battle and cinematics... no. Things like that must be maintained or you'll have something like the PRP project (which i think looks rather silly). Remaking them in 3d and rendering a background makes it difficult to match up the scale perfectly and would take half the development time on its own. If you can batch upscale the backgrounds thats awesome, if not then I'll be glad to help with a certain chunk of them. As for cinematics... I'd find a great deal of fun remaking those in 3D, mainly so the characters wouldnt look terrible (i accept armature-less models in game... but its attrocious in their "high" poly models).

to Aali, can you get the images back into ff7? If so can we see an upscaled comparison. if not... it up on the priority list?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 14:40:45
Here is videoenhancer (with no added filters such as sharpen):

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/Aftervideoenhancer19.png

here is Fractals (no added filters)

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/fractals-1.png

Fractals with sharpen:

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/fractals.png


There doesn't seem to be much between fractals and the enhancer, except less pixellation perhaps.  The sharpner would prob work just as well on enhancer too....  so no real score between the 2

Edited.  Uploaded wrong pics
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 14:47:35
There is no real way of making a sh*tty res picture look much better.  There is noise, artiacts, blur....and if you try to take 1 away you end up losing something else.  The best we can hope for is enhancer with a sharpen filter and possibly 1 or 2 artifact reducers.

Also, ali, what resolution would you desire with movies.  The psx original is 320 * 224
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: ShinChan on 2009-06-19 14:49:51
There doesn't seem to be much between fractals and the enhancer, except less pixellation perhaps.  The sharpner would prob work just as well on enhancer too....  so no real score between the 2

The method with fractals seems to be more work for the person doing this. If it's really much more work, then we should stick to the Video Enhancer. If possible I think we should do the resizing of the videos with Fractals, because it IS better. The pictures are sharper and more detailed even without applying sharpening. But as I said it depends on whether it is much more time consuming than Video Enhancer ;)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 14:52:29
There doesn't seem to be much between fractals and the enhancer, except less pixellation perhaps.  The sharpner would prob work just as well on enhancer too....  so no real score between the 2

The method with fractals seems to be more work for the person doing this. If it's really much more work, then we should stick to the Video Enhancer. If possible I think we should do the resizing of the videos with Fractals, because it IS better. The pictures are sharper and more detailed even without applying sharpening. But as I said it depends on whether it is much more time consuming than Video Enhancer ;)

The difference is absolutely minimum... it isn't worth the effort for that kind of increase.  The res of the ff7 movies is too low to begin with.  But Enhancer + sharpen + artifact filter may prove useful.  I will do some tests when I get back.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Zen on 2009-06-19 15:11:53
Resolution of movies should just be doubled, so it matches the original resolution of the game.

Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 15:20:25
is the NTSC version of the game resolution of 320*224 ?  I am assuming so.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: ShinChan on 2009-06-19 15:21:45
Resolution of movies should just be doubled, so it matches the original resolution of the game.

I think it would be better to go four times the original resolution of the video (which means 1280x960 pixels), because many of the people here are playing FF VII with the high resolution patch. And then 640x480 would again look pixelated. But the other question is whether the videos in 1280x960 pixels wouldn't be too big in size -- on the other hand, with todays computers, size doesn't matter that much anyway ^^ It might also depend on the codec... when we have to use TM2 again, the videos might get quite big, if we wan't them in good quality. If there would be a way that we can use H.264 or something like that, then the size maybe would also be not too big.
With Video Enhancer resizing should be quite easy, so to satisfy everybody, we could also make two video packs, one in 640x480 and one in 1280x960 resolution.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 15:24:42
I don't like the idea of making 2....it is a bit half assed.

But H.264 may be a requirement.  I don't think anything else will suffice.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-19 15:24:58
Resolution of movies should just be doubled, so it matches the original resolution of the game.

I think it would be better to go four times the original resolution of the video (which means 1280x960 pixels), because many of the people here are playing FF VII with the high resolution patch. And then 640x480 would again look pixelated. But the other question is whether the videos in 1280x960 pixels wouldn't be too big in size -- on the other hand, with todays computers, size doesn't matter that much anyway ^^ It might also depend on the codec... when we have to use TM2 again, the videos might get quite big, if we wan't them in good quality. If there would be a way that we can use H.264 or something like that, then the size maybe would also be not too big.
With Video Enhancer resizing should be quite easy, so to satisfy everybody, we could also make two video packs, one in 640x480 and one in 1280x960 resolution.

Doesn't Aali's driver support h.264?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 15:27:21
Resolution of movies should just be doubled, so it matches the original resolution of the game.

I think it would be better to go four times the original resolution of the video (which means 1280x960 pixels), because many of the people here are playing FF VII with the high resolution patch. And then 640x480 would again look pixelated. But the other question is whether the videos in 1280x960 pixels wouldn't be too big in size -- on the other hand, with todays computers, size doesn't matter that much anyway ^^ It might also depend on the codec... when we have to use TM2 again, the videos might get quite big, if we wan't them in good quality. If there would be a way that we can use H.264 or something like that, then the size maybe would also be not too big.
With Video Enhancer resizing should be quite easy, so to satisfy everybody, we could also make two video packs, one in 640x480 and one in 1280x960 resolution.

Doesn't Aali's driver support h.264?

It does. :)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: ShinChan on 2009-06-19 15:31:04
Doesn't Aali's driver support h.264?
It does. :)

Sounds great ;D So even 1280x960 pixels might be relatively small in size then. But for users with older PCs we still might do a 640x480 version, because H.264 needs a rather fast processor!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-19 15:33:28
Wonder how we moved from editing fields to editing movies haha.

Though since this is about Aali's field background editor (a la Palmer) Should we move this to another topic?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 15:33:40
1280x960  will place the AR out a bit.

Since original is 320 * 4 (1280)  by 224 * 4 (896)

That is why I need ali to explain what will happen with video :)  The bitrate would need to be around 3000 minmum  (so a 1 minute movie without would be  around 22 Mbyte

FF_daiku.avi is around 20 MB on the PSX and is over 1 minute.  So it wouldnt be TOO much difference.  If 3000 is too low increasing it a little wouldnt make it much larger than original files.

and yes I think we probably should move this elsewhere :)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-19 15:35:11
now to figure out how to unlimit the videos so they play at 60fps, and we're all good  :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: arew264 on 2009-06-19 15:39:34
Resolution of movies should just be doubled, so it matches the original resolution of the game.

I think it would be better to go four times the original resolution of the video (which means 1280x960 pixels), because many of the people here are playing FF VII with the high resolution patch. And then 640x480 would again look pixelated. But the other question is whether the videos in 1280x960 pixels wouldn't be too big in size -- on the other hand, with todays computers, size doesn't matter that much anyway ^^ It might also depend on the codec... when we have to use TM2 again, the videos might get quite big, if we wan't them in good quality. If there would be a way that we can use H.264 or something like that, then the size maybe would also be not too big.
With Video Enhancer resizing should be quite easy, so to satisfy everybody, we could also make two video packs, one in 640x480 and one in 1280x960 resolution.

My understanding is that even with the high resolution patch, you can't change the resolution of the videos? This entire effort is for use with Aali's graphics driver, which will pretty much run at any resolution you want.
Aali's driver will use any codec supported by FFMPEG, the backend of VLC Media Player. You can play pretty much anything you want with it, including h264 and XVid. If you wanted to go nuts, I'm sure it supports some lossless formats as well, but the files would be huge. Again, the high resolution patch will NOT play videos with codecs other than TM2.

On the other hand, this driver pretty much makes the high resolution pach obselete. It was a good solution to the problem, but the driver offers far more functionality than a patch is capable of adding.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-19 19:58:10
Just thought i'd take a whack at resizing the image. And this is where i got (for some reason when i cut it from palmer it wasn't 1024*1024)

(http://i39.tinypic.com/6r0vgx.png)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 19:59:02
Just thought i'd take a whack at resizing the image. And this is where i got (for some reason when i cut it from palmer it wasn't 1024*1024)

(http://i39.tinypic.com/6r0vgx.png)

That hasn't been resized....
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-06-19 20:00:54
Looking good, hellbringer616  :wink:

And may a suggest that a separate thread be made about increasing the resolution of the movies?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-19 20:01:35
It has, it was downscaled to fit on Qhimm. getting a proper link.

It's a bad job anyway haha..

But here ya go

http://i39.tinypic.com/6r0vgx.jpg

I'm new to GIMP, but i'm tryin, Guess thats what counts :-D

If it matters i used Sharpen by default then again by 30 (i was mostly messing around haha..) and then aliased by i think 20.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 20:04:50
Looks good to me, did you use fractals?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-19 20:06:46
Nope, whatever default sharpen is. then again by 30, and then i aliased, I thought i remember moving a scale for it, But i guess not.

Tried an idea about oversizing the image, messing with it, then resizing it. But so far. doesn't seem to do much if anything at all..
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 20:11:55
I have just compared.  Fractals still keeps more detail :)  But that attempt isnt too bad.  I don't think we will find anything better than fractals as it is the standard for increasing image size.  When aali has sorted his program we can get to work increasing size.  It would be good if anyone had some tricks to making it even better
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-19 20:16:37
I have just compared.  Fractals still keeps more detail :)  But that attempt isnt too bad.  I don't think we will find anything better than fractals as it is the standard for increasing image size.  When aali has sorted his program we can get to work increasing size.  It would be good if anyone had some tricks to making it even better

Fractals? What exactly is that? (forgive my noobish question)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 20:24:33
see further up for my posts on it :)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Luis Aviles on 2009-06-19 22:05:19
 I recently found something that I must show to you guys

 After searching some images of midgar for my own garry mod project I found some great rendered background images of Midgar. Turned out those images come from a photobucket account full of rendered images of midgar. The pictures are in very high resolution and look amazing. I think seriously you guys should find out who this guy and discuss with him

 The link I found : http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x103/NoenGaruth/ (http://s180.photobucket.com/albums/x103/NoenGaruth/)

 Some images :

 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x103/NoenGaruth/floor66FG.jpg)

 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x103/NoenGaruth/LobbyFGbig5.jpg)

 (http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x103/NoenGaruth/presidentsofficeFG.jpg)



Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 22:08:37
If only the whole game was like that!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Yuffie_Lover on 2009-06-19 22:12:42
Oh yeah!
I remember those
ITs from the LifeStream Forum...
The guy was only re-making midgar wasn't he?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-19 22:18:44
The problem with these backgounds is, although they look great, there would be severe issue in placing them into the game properly.  I may be wrong here but the collision detection etc is all based on exact coordinates which match the image.  These images are not in exact proportion and so would be unusable.

Aali would be better equipped to answer this too :)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Zen on 2009-06-19 22:22:11
Plus, those backgrounds are way too detailed for this game. It would clash with the low poly models.

Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-06-21 13:01:33
@Aali: How's the Project going? Any update on Lifestream?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-06-21 16:52:37
Lifestream? Never heard of it.

Seriously though, the project is not dead.
I have not had a chance to work on it recently but that does not mean I'm giving up on it.

It will be finished, eventually.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-21 17:54:49
Take your time Aali, No-one here is rushing you.

I can't wait till it can import and export (or hell just export haha) the PNG's
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-21 17:56:18
hey aali, I am using vista x64 and when I try to open the background file I get soem error stating "cowardly refused to open file greater than 32 MB"
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-06-21 18:08:07
Lifestream? Never heard of it.
Sorry. Was it Highwind? (No, I guess it is taken?) Palmer? (No, you said you don't like it?) I think you said you liked Lifestream? Nevermind, though. (Silly me, I even downloaded it and give feedback. How can I forget...)

Anyways, yes, there's no push, no one's rushing you. But you know, you are a bit of celebrity here and we don't have any gossip column (and even if we had, I've never read a gossip column in my life.) So, just enthusiasm and what follows...
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-06-21 18:08:35
hey aali, I am using vista x64 and when I try to open the background file I get soem error stating "cowardly refused to open file greater than 32 MB"

It doesn't do LGP unpacking, use some other tool for that.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-21 18:09:16
Oh yeah!
I remember those
ITs from the LifeStream Forum...
The guy was only re-making midgar wasn't he?

Lifestream forum.  Not a program.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Seifer Almasy on 2009-06-21 18:09:54
hey aali, I am using vista x64 and when I try to open the background file I get soem error stating "cowardly refused to open file greater than 32 MB"

It doesn't do LGP unpacking, use some other tool for that.

Understood :)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-27 05:30:47
Bug report (uhh i think)

in palmer v0.2 when i export md1stin i get 4 png files, dunno if thats normal.
But if it is the main issue is any area that's suppose to be black or shaded doesn't appear on the PNG's.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: secondadvent on 2009-06-27 05:47:11
i think it is just exporting all four layers of the background, some parts appear behind you, others appear in front, and it uses the layering to do that (if it were one image, it would have to specifically tell the game which coordinates of the picture would be in a different layer, and that would take a hell of a lot of programming, so it is in layers instead).

when editing the backgrounds (for when the import ability arrives), it would need to be done to all four layers, only smoothing/changing one would not do enough.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Trishty on 2009-06-27 06:20:01
Wow it's wonderfull. Can edit FF7 PC background yet?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-27 06:53:57
It can view and export, But thats it. so you can edit and resize the backgrounds to look nicer using photoshop or gimp.

But as of right now thats all you can do.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-06-27 15:53:44
You can get any number of .pngs for one background, whenever there's some overlapping tiles it'll end up in another .png
The import will take those same tiles and put them back into the textures that FF7 uses.

The important lesson here is that FF7 works with tiles, usually 16x16, anything drawn outside these tiles won't be visible, anything drawn to a single tile must match with the contents of all tiles that are next to, above and under it. There are some exceptions, but generally, editing backgrounds will be a lot more difficult than just applying some filter.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-28 00:21:20
So, you're saying even if i extract and resize the background PNG's in GIMP, that it still won't work after you get the import and save features working in Palmer?

Also, were the fields (like the movies) designed for 320*240? Or 640*480? Just wondering so IF i can resize them in GIMP if i should use twice the size, or 4 times (for 1280*960)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-06-28 00:32:02
Sure, it will work, but it will look like crap unless you take care to align everything properly. You'll see how well it works when I have implemented it.

The same goes for your question about size, you'll know whats best when you start working with it.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-06-28 00:35:00
Alright, thanks. Hopefully i can contribute to the community now :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-09 03:56:12
Sorry for double post (and possible necro) I was wondering how progress on this was going? I've been slowly improving the backgrounds. But i can't add em yet haha :-P

EDIT: Also thought i'd post this as a "bug" when rendering images in Palmer (only for my XP VM in Windows 7 it works fine)

I get this.

(http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg278/hellbringer616/Bug.png)

It also locks up for a second (usually 3 or 4) then it works fine, (with the above error). When exporting images i have no issue.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Xelane on 2009-07-09 04:12:36
I won't claim to know anything about this but if if it helps it looks to me like that backround has something different about it that makes the editor read it in the wrong way.

or maybe there is a bug in the program

idk i'm not good with this sort of programming yet so i can only guess  :|
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-09 04:16:20
EDIT: Here is my best shot at a resized image. Sorry on the green lines and tile effect (on a tile) i dunno how to remove them. Plus it's just on the image. Palmer could do a better job since it knows how to place everything properly (or will)

(http://i26.tinypic.com/67vdig.png)

http://tinypic.com/r/67vdig/3 thats so you can see the image fullsized. and not scaled down.

Thats what i thought. But like i said, Runs perfect on Windows 7 x64. So i'm thinking it's a problem with the Virtualbox driver or something.

Also, trying to combine images in photoshop when you have no experience is hard haha.

Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Borde on 2009-07-09 14:22:04
If you were to filter the backgrounds, I think exporting a single image with all layers applied to it would be more effective. This could be a problem for background aniations though.
Also there is a serious limitation on how any palletes FF7 can handle. Heach tile is palletized with a 256 colors pallete, probably shared by several other tiles. Since you can't have as many palletes as tiles, the number of colors is limited. Althought maybe this limitation could be (or has already been) removed thanks to Aali's graphics driver.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-09 16:31:22
Just used the example same filter settings on each separate image and it's fine. Only issue i had was the green lines. the original image parts are aliased, so there are those green lines that show up when i put an image where it should be (unless photoshop didn't place em where it should be)

So like said, I'm sure Palmer will be abe to import all the image parts properly.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-09 17:44:35
No it won't. The green areas have bled into areas that should not be green. This is why you can't simply run the backgrounds through some filter and expect it to look good.

Oh and next time put the images on a black background, all those transparent areas should be black.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-09 17:46:43
I thought the editor would fix that too, But alright. Any idea how one could get rid of the screen when exporting an image?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: TerrawindX2 on 2009-07-09 17:48:09
Project "Sector Seven"

Project "Pizza""

Project "Slum"

Project "Buster"

Project "Cetra"

Project "Terra"

Project "Buster"

Project "insert ancient weapon name here"

Project "Insert Famous Artist name here"

Project "Resize"

Project "Midgar"

Project "Shinra"

Project "Shera"

Project "Costa Del Sol"

Project "Advent/Order/Crisis/Dirge"

Project "BGIRS" which stands for BackgroundImageReSize, also pronounced "Biggers". :P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-09 17:49:14
It doesn't resize em, thats what we do, manually.

But it's got a name my friend. Palmer.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-09 17:53:01
I thought the editor would fix that too, But alright. Any idea how one could get rid of the screen when exporting an image?
Use a mask (or selection) during image processing.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-09 17:56:14
Is that for photoshop? Or for the exporter it's self? As there is no option other then "ExportPNG" in Palmer haha.

Also, when layering everything, on top of the annoying green there, Everything looks like it's tiled on. Anyway i can make it just smooth?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-09 18:03:50
Is that for photoshop? Or for the exporter it's self?
Of course, the mask is only in Photoshop.

Also, when layering everything, on top of the annoying green there, Everything looks like it's tiled on. Anyway i can make it just smooth?
A fully-opaque mask should help you fix this issue during image processing since as early as when you import the originals into Photoshop.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-10 03:44:19
Alright, i am not familiar with Photoshop, my friend is though. And since i am using his photoshop. Then he can help me out (hopefully anyway)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-11 15:53:44
(http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer_import_001.png)

Import is working now, but you can't save anything yet.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: BlitzNCS on 2009-07-11 17:02:35
XDDDD
epic. can you animate it too, like in the game it shows the map?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-11 17:14:47
Those animations are just like any other field animation, sets of tiles that can be turned on/off.
Palmer exports/imports all these tiles in a bit of a clumsy fashion (it doesn't know how to group together all the tiles from one "frame" of animation and put them in the same .png when exporting) so yes, sure, you could replace the entire animation.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-12 02:26:48
Amazing job as usual. Keep it up Aali :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: hotdog963al on 2009-07-12 14:08:29
Tetris, oh my, I lol'd  :-D

Looking forward to this being able to save!! Good jorb
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-23 15:21:09
http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.3a.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.3a.zip)

Import and export are both working, and you can save the field files :-)
You need version 0.7 of the OpenGL driver for imported PNGs to work.

The interface is still.. well, you know, hideous, so I better explain how it all works :-P

To edit a field file you need to do the following:

1. Open the file in palmer
2. Export PNG from the layer you want to edit (this will create a number of png files, do not rename any of the files, do not save files from different layers to the same location, if unsure put them in a clean folder)
3. Resize and/or edit the png files to your hearts content (but make sure you resize *all* of the files equally)
4. Open the same field file in palmer (if you closed it before)
5. Import PNG to the layer you exported from, if all goes well the display will update to show your new field background
6. Save the field file (once again, this will create a number of png files, different from the ones you edited), if you have another tool that can do LZS you might want to use that instead since palmer only writes a valid LZS file, it doesn't do any kind of compression
7. Put the png files from step 6 in the "textures" directory (from the OpenGL driver install)
8. Repack flevel.lgp with your new field file, LGP Tools will break the archive somewhat so don't use that. If you can, use this: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8641.0 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8641.0)
9. Enjoy
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: ultima espio on 2009-07-23 15:25:02
First post since release :-D :-P

I'll test this out soon, and get back to you :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-23 17:00:02
AT LAST! It's here!  :-o :) Let's download and try it out...
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-23 18:40:45
Was gonna make a background, But i dunno command line and you said LGP tools will mess with it. Guess i just wait. Although now that this is finished. I think new backgrounds will be popping up like crazy!

Awesome work Aali :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-23 19:58:00
Well, LGP Tools will not mess up the actual field files, so you can still try it. What it will do is make some eye textures inaccessible (so they appear black or transparent in game)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-07-23 21:19:08
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg129/SeiferAlmasy2008/problem.png

Bare in mind I am no pro at this editing lark with Palmer and may have made mistakes.

My observations:

1.  It will take ages to do all backgrounds in this manner.

2.  I suspected that because we must edit different png files,i ncreasing the size is OK, but if we use any filters like fractals resize or sharpening or anything, it goes all wrong when the files have to line up.  I am assuming that is what has happened in the above example

3.  Is there any problem using Highwind for LGP?  I did... ?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-23 21:39:16
Yes, like I've been trying to tell you all along, applying a simple filter will not work.

Not sure if Highwind has the same problem as LGP Tools, but it probably does. However, if you only replace files, you won't have a problem. Even LGP Tools can handle that, sort of. (In advanced editing mode you can make it work, but it's a bit of a hack)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-07-23 21:49:19
The problem with leaving them all as it is, is they look terrible.  Blurred....and not enhanced.

Is there really absolutely no way to get round this?  It is simple to resize but the final outcome is not going to be "better"
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-07-23 21:51:58
please dont tell me i have to start whipping up some homebrewed prerendered backgrounds T.T
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kranmer on 2009-07-23 22:21:39
well i had a go resizing and adding a filter and i had the same problem as seifertemp (to be expected) then i tried a few idea's and i managed to get a somwhat alright result here
(http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4904/blurededited.png) (http://img523.imageshack.us/i/blurededited.png/)
i 200% sized the image and added a blur filter and a noise filter and it seems to look alright (proberly over blured slightly but it is only a test to see what can and cant be done)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-07-23 22:34:41
It's nice to see that it worked  :-)

It's much better than the normal background, but you're right about there being a bit too much blur; it'll be a shame if it's not possible to sharped the image at all.  :|
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Borde on 2009-07-23 23:37:45
Congratulations for your excelent work Aali. I still remember the summer tried doing something like this. And failed miserably :-P (as some may remember).

The way I see this, the only way of filetring the backgrounds correctly (without all those green, black, red, etc artifacts) would be filtering the whole image (with all layers applied). Of course, this is problematic. I'd say there are 3 cases regarding the backgrounds:
-Standard static backrounds. Applying the filter directly should suffice.
-Animated backgrounds. You should filter the whole background with every frame of the animation applied. Then save the animated tiles where they belong.
-I think there are some backgrounds that had sliding layers. That would be more troublesome. This would need not only a good filtering, but also a good deal of patience cutting off manually the edges of the layers.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: halkun on 2009-07-24 00:38:20
We should be doing fractal scales and photoshop touchups. I'm wikking to try that. DO they make a fractal plugin for Gimp?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-24 04:07:08
We should be doing fractal scales and photoshop touchups. I'm wikking to try that. DO they make a fractal plugin for Gimp?

Not from them directly. But i'm not sure if someone open sourced something similar.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-25 01:01:42
Here's a little something I whipped up last night;

(http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/bg2f_1.png)
(http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/escouse1.png)
(http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/esview2.png)
(http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/gover.png)

Now, don't expect Palmer to get support for FF8 overnight, I'm still not sure I can even do that in a reasonable amount of time.
This is just a proof of concept, it BARELY works, sometimes :-P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Makubex (Mendelevium) on 2009-07-25 01:34:24
Now I cannot wait for that! If you can get it to support FF8...
you will make me, and probably many people very happy!
:D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-07-25 03:29:44
Well now I'm expecting some FFIX lovin'
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-25 03:34:58
Don't think thats possible haha, Unless someone were to rewrite everything for a PC version haha
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Arsirus UK on 2009-07-26 23:15:31
I`m not having any joy importing the files back.
I click on import and nothing happens any ideas??
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-26 23:30:49
Hmm, seems like I didn't add an error message for when it can't open the file.
You should not any have underscores or periods in the filename, apart from whatever is added by palmer when you do the export, that will mess up the import. (When doing the import, palmer doesn't actually open the file you choose, instead its filename is used as a template to find all the layers and because of this it will cut off the filename at the first underscore)
Also make sure your PNGs are 24- or 32-bit, no other formats are supported.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Arsirus UK on 2009-07-27 09:15:59
Whats the best program to get it to 32bit Photoshop will only do 16??
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-27 12:26:59
^ Photoshop is one of the only programs (and one of the best) that supports 32-bit.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, usually the only thing that you should do in Photoshop to get 24- or 32-bit PNGs is not doing anything specific.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Colly on 2009-07-27 12:43:55

Now, don't expect Palmer to get support for FF8 overnight, I'm still not sure I can even do that in a reasonable amount of time.
This is just a proof of concept, it BARELY works, sometimes :-P

Quote
Now I cannot wait for that! If you can get it to support FF8...
you will make me, and probably many people very happy!

If somebody wants edit backgrounds in FF8, there is a way, if you use programs created by Kruci.
See here:
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8461.0 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8461.0)

...in the seventh section ;) It works:
(http://www.balamb.pl/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/screeny_polskiej_wersji_ff8_na_pc_1/final_fantasy_viii_pl_pc_20090416_1612716812.jpg)
(http://www.balamb.pl/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/screeny_polskiej_wersji_ff8_na_pc_1/final_fantasy_viii_pl_pc_20090416_1056931327.jpg)

Kruci's program converts MIM -> BMPs (and BMPs -> MIM), these BMPs you can edit in Photoshop/GIMP/whatever. ;)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-27 13:14:46
Thanks for letting us know... but if I were you, I'd keep a gun close just in case.  :-P :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Colly on 2009-07-27 13:37:11
Thanks for letting us know... but if I were you, I'd keep a gun close just in case.  :-P :-D

If somebody shoot me, who will create program to convert translations (and backgrounds :P) from PC to PSX? :-D :wink:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Millenia on 2009-07-27 13:40:00
Man you're such a one man army Aali  :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Makubex (Mendelevium) on 2009-07-27 19:22:37

Now, don't expect Palmer to get support for FF8 overnight, I'm still not sure I can even do that in a reasonable amount of time.
This is just a proof of concept, it BARELY works, sometimes :-P

Quote
Now I cannot wait for that! If you can get it to support FF8...
you will make me, and probably many people very happy!

If somebody wants edit backgrounds in FF8, there is a way, if you use programs created by Kruci.
See here:
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8461.0 (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8461.0)



...in the seventh section ;) It works:
(http://www.balamb.pl/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/screeny_polskiej_wersji_ff8_na_pc_1/final_fantasy_viii_pl_pc_20090416_1612716812.jpg)
(http://www.balamb.pl/components/com_joomgallery/img_pictures/screeny_polskiej_wersji_ff8_na_pc_1/final_fantasy_viii_pl_pc_20090416_1056931327.jpg)

Kruci's program converts MIM -> BMPs (and BMPs -> MIM), these BMPs you can edit in Photoshop/GIMP/whatever. ;)


I know this is going to sound really lame... but, i can't figure out how to get the Tim. plug in
into my photo shop....
-.-

It is
Adobe CS4 Photo Shop Portable..
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Makubex (Mendelevium) on 2009-07-29 04:26:38
Alright.
I tried to use Palmer..
and When i opened it up..
all i got was a black screen,,
and yes i know i have to right click to get the sub menus.. but they don't show up..
and when they do they are just black boxes...

i clicked it randomly and the load file thing popped up

here is a screenie

(http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss295/Wildsai/palmerissues.jpg)

the sub menu is the black box off to the bottom right of palmer.

*edit*
OMG
I am sorry... i forgot i posted here..
sorry for the double post..
-.-

i have been doing this a lot lately..
sorry.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-29 12:32:44
I'm stuck at Step 7 of Aali's instructions:
Quote
7. Put the png files from step 6 in the "textures" directory (from the OpenGL driver install)
I extracted flevel.lgp into "G:\temp" folder. I modified a field background -- size and resolution still remains the same. Then, I saved the field file into "G:\temp\new" folder and got field file plus the .PNG files I'm supposed to get. But now I don't understand, what does "the "textures" directory (from the OpenGL driver install)" mean? Which OpenGL driver? Which "textures" folder.

Please help. Thanks in advance.

Note that I'm targeting a vanilla Final Fantasy VII without no modification.

ADDENDUM: Reopened the modified field file in Palmer and, oh my, it looks exactly like the original background. What happened to my changes? It looked correctly changed when I saved it!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kranmer on 2009-07-29 13:38:24
FleetCommand after you import your edited PNG into Palmer click SAVE FIELD FILE and save it to a different folder. Then in this new folder you could have lots of PNG files and a field file. Put all the new PNG files into the texture folder in your FF7 folder (you need to be using Aali's driver 0.7 to have this folder) and then use a LGP editor and put the texture file back into the flevel.lgp (use Aali's LGP tools if you can but if its just for testing you can use a different program but i really do recommend Aali's tool.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-29 14:11:40
Actually, that's pretty much what I did without results.

FIRST: I issued the following commands:

SECOND:

THIRD: I issued the following commands:

FOURTH:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kranmer on 2009-07-29 14:29:22
Ok then so it looked alright in palmer. did you try looking at the outputed PNG when you saved them to see if the edited section is still there ?
Also i would compare the LGP archive using Highwind and check to make sure that las0_1 is the modifyed one.
Also you said the files are las0_1_00_00.png to las0_1_18_11.png but i just checked and they should be las0_00_00.png to las0_18_11.png so this could also be a problem

EDIT:- Also if you still cant get it working if you upload your save and the outputed files by palmer and i will have a look.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-29 14:40:13
Ok then so it looked alright in palmer. did you try looking at the outputed PNG when you saved them to see if the edited section is still there ?
Yes, the .PNG files were a mess but my insignia was easily seen in tatters.

Also i would compare the LGP archive using Highwind and check to make sure that las0_1 is the modifyed one.
Highwind 1.21 only raises an arithmetic error exception when I try to preview anything inside flevel.lgp (both original and modified version) no matter what. However, if you review part FOURTH of my post, you'll realize that even after reopening a changed file inside Palmer itself, it didn't look changed at all.

Also you said the files are las0_1_00_00.png to las0_1_18_11.png but i just checked and they should be las0_00_00.png to las0_18_11.png so this could also be a problem
You must have mistakenly saved your field file as las0 instead of las0_1.

EDIT: Standby, uploading now...
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kranmer on 2009-07-29 14:49:15
hm thats strange. After you Export the PNG from las0_1 files they are renamed to las0_0 (by Palmer) this may mean that when they are imported back they may be messed up, i would recommend try renaming the PNG files to what i mentioned before and seeing if they will work like that (i belive the file may be looking for the wrong PNG files after being edited although i could be wrong), This may be a problem for Aali to look into.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-29 15:03:22
Upload complete. Here is the link.
Code: [Select]
http://rapidshare.com/files/261416425/LSASS.zipSome notes:
1. I didn't include the extracted contents of flevel.lgp. It was 122MBs after all. You already have flevel.lgp, right?
2. The LSASS.rar contains the following folders:
2. A. "Palmer": Contain Palmer 0.3 which I'm using.
2. B. "Res": Contains the following contents.
2. C. "Res\Source": Contains the original las0_1, extracted using by EnLGP (part of Aali's LGP-MERC tool)
2. D. "Res\Work": Contains modified PNG files extracted by Palmer and modified by Paint.NET. Only las0_0_00000000.png is changed. (Since I don't want to spoil my mod just now, I have censored my insignia from it. I hope you understand. But this should be enough.)
2. E. "Res\Target": Contains Palmer's exports, namely las0_1 and .PNG files.

EDIT: Updated file. It now includes a saved game found from the Internet.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kranmer on 2009-07-29 15:15:08
do you happen to have a save where i can see the texture (or know if a place i can get a save)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-29 15:18:42
The driver will complain if it can't find a .png it needs, check app.log for this. You should also know that Palmer cannot reopen a modified field file with good results. Always open the original and make a new import.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-29 15:21:05
@Aali: Impossible to check now... I have raised an EInsufficientPrivacy in My.Room due to PRESENCE_OF_OTHER_PEOPLE = true.

@Karmner: Upload complete:
Code: [Select]
http://rapidshare.com/files/261416425/LSASS.zipThis new file includes a saved game. Load second slot and head north into the northern crater.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kranmer on 2009-07-29 15:44:47
ok i just tried your files and your save and it works fine

(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5913/ff7workingtexture.jpg) (http://img35.imageshack.us/i/ff7workingtexture.jpg/)

All i did was replace your edited field file and copied all the PNG's into the textures folder and ran the game and it worked fine. So i know your files are fine. Are you sure your uisng 0.7 of Aali's driver ? you will proberly need to check your app.log like Aali said or upload it here.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-07-30 08:23:26
Thanks. I can't see your screenshot but your comments were helpful. Issue is resolved.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kranmer on 2009-07-30 16:54:57
glad to hear to fixed your problem. but maybe you should tell people how you fixed your problem just incase anyone else has the same problem later.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Otokoshi on 2009-07-30 19:50:43
Quote from: halkun
We should be doing fractal scales and photoshop touchups. I'm wikking to try that. DO they make a fractal plugin for Gimp?

I agree with the fractal suggestion.  Doubling a scene image with a fractal plugin for photoshop yielded these results.

(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7756/md1stin000000000.th.png) (http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/7756/md1stin000000000.png)(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7756/md1stin000000000.th.png) (http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7756/md1stin000000000.png)

ORIGINAL                     FRACTAL

Granted there hasn't been any touchups but it leaves a good starting point.  I've even done scales to 400% and it still looks good.

Palmer creates 4 .png files for this scene, once I modify them and attempt to import them, I do not see any change.  I'm not sure what I could be doing wrong, just wondering if anyone else has experienced this.  I am running Vista64, if that could be an issue.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: seifertemp on 2009-07-30 19:58:48
as was stated earlier....you cannot use ANY kind of advanced filter or resize method.  It will not work because the different parts will not join up exactly.

Until there is a solution for this (and I am not sure if there can be), fractals is out of the question and so is most resize methods aside from blurring to get rid of pixellation.

This will then have the added bonus of taking away detail.  However, you must have done something more wrong because it shouldnt have huge areas of green.

I also got that white square though, no idea why.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Otokoshi on 2009-07-30 20:14:29
Thanks for the reply, I do look forward to any use of fractals one day.

Quote from: seifertemp
However, you must have done something more wrong because it shouldnt have huge areas of green.

Not sure what else I could have done.  As I stated this is one of four images that were extracted when I exported the PNGs.  This is only one of the images.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kranmer on 2009-07-30 21:05:52
well actually there is a way of applying filters onto some of the fields without the outline problem like this
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/546/test1p.th.jpg) (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=test1p.jpg)
its not a flawless method but it works on flat fields fine but it wont work on fields that have objects (like in my first picture a page or 2 ago you may notice the NPC is in the middle of the table, this is because it wasnt a flat field, but a field like the train station works and so would some other places like the stage where the play happens on your date and the first screen to the temple of the aicents etc)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-07-30 22:35:27
just a simple question, is/will there be any way to add high-res texture support to the world map textures in the future?  I've made a few high-res version of grass, mountains, water but the engine only grabs the top left corner at original size and tiles that, resulting in some very interesting patterns.

;ee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: KnifeTheSky77 on 2009-07-31 02:58:28
just a simple question, is/will there be any way to add high-res texture support to the world map textures in the future?  I've made a few high-res version of grass, mountains, water but the engine only grabs the top left corner at original size and tiles that, resulting in some very interesting patterns.

;ee

(http://i492.photobucket.com/albums/rr283/knifethesky/untitled.jpg)

Good too hear that someone is having the same problem as me. I actually wanted re-do the world map with HD textures for a while but as you can see, i havent figured out all of the mechanics yet
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-31 03:40:23
If you're using version 0.7 of the driver you can do the same thing I do for Palmer with the .png textures. Simply place EXT<null-terminated name goes here> as the very first bytes of the image data, and the driver will load textures/<name><_ palette, if any>.png instead. This will not be the same as replacing the texture directly because the game does not know the size of the new texture, it'll think you're using the original texture. (And thus won't try to cut it up)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-07-31 03:44:18
If you're using version 0.7 of the driver you can do the same thing I do for Palmer with the .png textures. Simply place EXT<null-terminated name goes here> as the very first bytes of the image data, and the driver will load textures/<name><_ palette, if any>.png instead. This will not be the same as replacing the texture directly because the game does not know the size of the new texture, it'll think you're using the original texture. (And thus won't try to cut it up)

That was music to my ears (well eyes)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-07-31 03:45:32
Oh my...  this sounds wonderful.  I can't wait to see what you guys do with the world map
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-07-31 18:18:16
If you're using version 0.7 of the driver you can do the same thing I do for Palmer with the .png textures. Simply place EXT<null-terminated name goes here> as the very first bytes of the image data, and the driver will load textures/<name><_ palette, if any>.png instead. This will not be the same as replacing the texture directly because the game does not know the size of the new texture, it'll think you're using the original texture. (And thus won't try to cut it up)

forgive me, but i don't understand what or where to place EXT <null-terminted name goes here>.  I've placed my PNG file in the textures directory, but it didn't load when i started the game(obviously i didn't expect it too).  I created a text with "EXT fld.tex" in the firstline, saved it as fld.tex, and inserted it into world_us.lgp, and that didn't work either (also didn't expect it to).  Where and how exactly do i insert the EXT code to call up my new texture?  Can i simply open the default fld.tex in notepad and insert the line there?

lee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-31 19:27:20
You have to use a hex editor, and it has to go in the actual *image data*, after the header and palette(s).
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-07-31 22:44:09
after comparing a of different tex files, i have found out how to determine the header, palette, and actual image within the hex code.  I still cannot figure out how to call my image though.  What exactly am i supposed to insert in between the palette and the image?  My texture name is fld.tex, so should i insert EXT fld.tex, EXT fld, or what?  I've tried a million combinations and nothing seems to be working once i repack my modified .tex file, it still show the original texture.

I've been overwriting the first bits of the image, then adding "00" at the end of EXT fld, but no dice, still shows the stock texture.  I'm very computer literate, but i've never screwed around with hex or programming other than VB, which hardly counts.

lee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-07-31 22:51:27
Well, first of all, don't add anything, just replace the first few bytes.
You can insert any name you like, this will only be used to find the .png when it's loaded.
Make sure there's no space after EXT.
If it can't find the .png, you'll get a message in app.log telling you what it was looking for.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-08-01 00:09:34
hmmm, i can't seem to figure out what i'm doing wrong.
My custom texture "fld.png" is located in /textures
The original "fld.tex" has been modified with "EXTfld" inserted into the first 6 bytes of image info(after the long string of "00s"), thus highwind cannot "read" it anymore(kinda confirms the modded version is inserted into the LPG) (does EXTfld need to be terminated with "00"?)
My app.log doesn't appear to say anything about searching for my texture, everything appears normally in the log and ingame.

I know it's the correct grass texture since i initally deleted it to be sure it was a used texture(which caused it to render transparently ingame)
Is there anyway you could upload an example of fld.tex so i can see exactly where you are inserting "EXTfld"? Maybe delete the bottom half of the file just for copyright reasons(i know the admins are very cautious of such things).  I'm just banging my head against the wall trying to figure this out so i can get working on the world map(and possibly battle scene textures as well).

lee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-08-01 00:41:25
Err, if you can't read the .tex afterwards you must have messed up the header (or something else). Modifying the image data will just put some odd pixels in the upper left corner.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-08-01 00:50:32
initally i was getting a few odd pixels in the upperleft hand corner of the image, then it moved to the bottom right, and now they seem to be gone :?  Obviously i'm in over my head on this one :-D

lee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-08-01 01:49:59
OKay, did some research, if it replace the first 6 bytes of the image with "00s", i get the line in the top left corner and highwind can still view the image.  However, if i replace the first 6 bytes with "EXTfld" highwind will crash and not let me view the image.  If i run the game with the image that crashes Highwind, the default texture still loads and the app.log doesn't display any error messages. 

I think an example would be worth a thousand words, and could kick-off other people modding the world map as well.  The doors that your custom driver has opened are endless!

lee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-08-01 03:35:17
Hmm, turns out it doesn't warn you if there's only one palette. (A misfeature I implemented to make it shut up when loading textures without knowing which palettes will be used)
You have to name your file fld_00.png for it to load though, since fld.tex is paletted.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-08-08 17:14:10
bah, after a week of frustration i cannot get this to work at all.  I don't know wth i'm doing wrong, but it's not loading my PNG, and it's not altering the default texture either.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Satoh on 2009-08-08 17:22:06
but the primary goal is to be able to replace existing backgrounds with higher-quality versions.

As I said in your other topic, onOne's Genuine Fractals is the perfect tool for upscaling the existing textures while retaining quality.

I'm really anxious to see how it would look too.

EDIT: nvm... I somehow missed 10 pages of this topic...
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-08-08 19:32:55
bah, after a week of frustration i cannot get this to work at all.  I don't know wth i'm doing wrong, but it's not loading my PNG, and it's not altering the default texture either.
Check this thread out  (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8788.0)  If the text can be enhanced, it shouldn't be THAT much different to substitute a new world map texture in.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-08 20:14:37
bah, after a week of frustration i cannot get this to work at all.  I don't know wth i'm doing wrong, but it's not loading my PNG, and it's not altering the default texture either.
Check this thread out  (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8788.0)  If the text can be enhanced, it shouldn't be THAT much different to substitute a new world map texture in.

And if we can do that, will we eventually be able to have the world map look like this (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6717.msg84013#msg84013)?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-08-08 20:19:30
bah, after a week of frustration i cannot get this to work at all.  I don't know wth i'm doing wrong, but it's not loading my PNG, and it's not altering the default texture either.
Check this thread out  (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8788.0)  If the text can be enhanced, it shouldn't be THAT much different to substitute a new world map texture in.

Unfortunatly, the world map textures cannot simply be scaled up and put back into the LGP files.  They do not tile correctly, and are very blurry and look horrid. PNG injection seems like the best/only method for replacing these textures ATM, but i cannot get it to work what so ever.  Here's what i did:
Extract fld.tex as a PNG, convert to greyscale(for testing purposes so i know it's "my" texture)
Reinsert the PNG with highwind, and re-extract the greyscale fld.tex that was just created.
Open fld.tex and insert "EXTgrass" in the first 6 bytes of image data(these bytes have been verified as well)
Re-insert the greyscale, EXT-modded fld.tex back into the LGP
Save the high-res grass in /textures as "grass_00.png"
start game, the ground is the greyscale version found in the LGP, not my high-res version

Also i have a question, if the plugin simply needs to find a EXT reference somewhere in the image data of a .tex file, couldn't the rest of the image data simply be erased after the EXT, since it will load the high-res version anyway(once it was working anyhow).

lee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-08-08 21:04:23
Error reporting is not what it should be in 0.7 but this works, I just replaced fld.tex myself with some random png.

Make sure it's a 32- or 24-bit png, no other formats are supported.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: BlitzNCS on 2009-08-08 21:18:51
bah, after a week of frustration i cannot get this to work at all.  I don't know wth i'm doing wrong, but it's not loading my PNG, and it's not altering the default texture either.
Check this thread out  (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=8788.0)  If the text can be enhanced, it shouldn't be THAT much different to substitute a new world map texture in.

And if we can do that, will we eventually be able to have the world map look like this (http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=6717.msg84013#msg84013)?
^ *wants this*
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-08-08 21:35:01
Error reporting is not what it should be in 0.7 but this works, I just replaced fld.tex myself with some random png.

Make sure it's a 32- or 24-bit png, no other formats are supported.
can you PM me a copy of the fld.tex you used to do this?  I discovered i was using 8-bit PNGs to replace the ones ingame, but even after upping the bitrate they still aren't appearing.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-08-09 13:04:40
Hi, Aali.

Is it possible to build backgrounds that are not dependant on your OpenGL driver?

Actually, I do love your driver but somehow a Robotek Mini 10v netbook doesn't like anything OpenGL at all. And, I'm not into making Hi-Res backgrounds too. At least not for a netbook...

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-08-09 16:10:44
It will be possible.. sometime in the future.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-08-10 05:34:00
Thanks.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-08-10 22:36:16
I would also like to figure out the texture replacement. Aali if you could just tell me the byte offset of the begininng of the pixel data is in usfont_a_h.tex that would be a great start for me. Ive been messing with a hex editor for 4 hours now and soon i wont have any hair left lol
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-08-14 22:24:55
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/pyrozen/newgfx.jpg)

i've got a few textures ingame, most noticable is the grass. It still needs alot of work, but i'm just happy that i got it to work at all!  I also have replaced the sky texture, but the engine scales it very strangely and applies transparency even if the image doesn't have an alpha, so it will require some work to get it going.

lee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-08-14 23:45:22
Are you using aali's texture replacement method?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: obesebear on 2009-08-15 01:23:24
Well that looks wonderful  :-D
I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say, THANK YOU
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-08-15 02:29:49
the gras looks fantastic, Keep up the good work  :-D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Harruzame on 2009-08-20 04:25:13
Nice!!! So it would seem the background is doin the makeover this time...Wow!! FFVII would never be the same ..( I hope )...

Some MOD would be nice to change the scenery to AC quality..( *wishful thinking* ) or DC or Dissidia...hmmm..HOPE HOPE HOPE :wink:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: SwornEnemy on 2009-08-20 11:04:42
this is sick,,,,,
when all these programs that are out and that people are creating,,in the end, we would have modded the game so much there would be no point for a remake
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-08-20 11:29:12
But there is no point for a remake already!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: SwornEnemy on 2009-08-20 11:49:54
of course theirs a point.............
everyone who says there shouldn't b a remake are bullshiting.......
cause if they brought out a remake i can guarantee every who said ' i don't want a remake' will buy it
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-08-20 12:16:12
^ When I said "But there is no point for a remake already!" I meant the programs have already reached considerable success.

Anyways, you don't have to be that aggressive.  :-(
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Matt2Tees on 2009-08-20 12:18:03
lol, take no notice of Raziel, he talks like that alot, he doesn't mean to be agressive  :wink:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-20 15:03:52
of course theirs a point.............
everyone who says there shouldn't b a remake are bullsh*ting.......
cause if they brought out a remake i can guarantee every who said ' i don't want a remake' will buy it

I advise you to look at what Squeenix has done with the Final Fantasy franchise recently and then think about why we don't want a remake. Square has gone from the company responsible for FF7 and Chrono Trigger to the company responsible for FFX-2 and Dirge of Cerberus. Of course, we'd all still buy it because we're idiots, but that doesn't mean we want FF7 remade by people who have lost their touch.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-08-20 16:14:49
I don't think it's that they lost their touch, The plot writer of the Final Fantasy franchise left before the creation of those games.

Hence why, all the story totally sucks on them.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Matt2Tees on 2009-08-20 16:19:45
Its not Squaresoft anymore its Square Enix, most of the talented people from Squaresoft have left, hence the lower quality of games. Final fantasy 10 was the last 'good' game in the series. 11, 12 and all the stupid spin-off's are just not worth our time, sadly
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: SwornEnemy on 2009-08-21 10:06:21
aggressive?
il show u f**kin aggressive...................*slap*
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: blue_jjb on 2009-08-21 18:27:30
Squeenix arent that bad. I love the kingdom hearts games, and the only thing i didn't really like about 12 was the god awful english voice acting. ALSO they've said in interviews that IF (a big if) they ever were to make a remake they'd need the old team on it. Although as great as the music for both of mistwalkers games were (luv u Nobuo) they kind of dull in comparison to the stuff they had done at Square. Atleast these guys come up with a different story and set of characters every sequal. Nintendo get branded gaming heroes for giving Link a new coloured boomerang every generation.

so yeah if they ever did make a remake of 7 it will never have the impact that the original did, but to see the original game in a shiny new well translated, high poly new outfit would be something i'd really enjoy. Even if she has to be called Aerith ¬_¬
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-08-21 18:34:13
Squeenix arent that bad.

No

the only thing i didn't really like about 12 was the god awful english voice acting.

By video game standards, the voice acting in 12 wasn't bad. The main problem was that the baddies and morally ambiguous characters (like Balthier and Basch) were British and the good guys were American. Subtle. :roll:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: halkun on 2009-08-21 19:43:17
Stay on topic....
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Blood_Crow (Mendelevium) on 2009-08-21 20:51:42
The download link is down. I get a page load error. And I truly want to mess with this.
 :wink:

Thanks.
Blood Crow
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Rational_B on 2009-08-22 17:24:22
hello, new to the forums but have been following a few threads intently (including this one)
I aim to experiment with a few field backgrounds and have successfully extracted all but 17 png images from the ff7 field files within flevel.LGP
The errors encountered tend to vary but there are similar trends and it would be interesting to hear feedback about fixes via hexedits.
Otherwise the following list may prove helpful as a guide to why particular files dont open. thx :)

blin68_1
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         yes
      SAVES-         crash after 4th png
_________________________________________________________________

blin69_1
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         crash
      EXTRACTS-              N/A
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (bad sections, not going to read)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

blin673b
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         yes
      SAVES-         crash after 3rd png
_________________________________________________________________

blinst_2
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (crash)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

clsin2_1
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes (artifacts)
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (didnt hit end tag, read past end)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

colne_2
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (bad sections, not going to read)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

cos_btm
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (crash)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

cosin5
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes (artifacts)
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (didnt hit end tag, read past end)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

fr_e
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         no (crash)
      EXTRACTS-              N/A
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         yes
      SAVES-         saves normal/p1 layers, crashes on p2
_________________________________________________________________

lastmap
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         yes
      SAVES-         crash after 2nd png
_________________________________________________________________

mds5_2
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         yes
      SAVES-         crash after 2nd png
_________________________________________________________________

mds5_w
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (crash)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

mtcrl_6
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (crash)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

nivinn_2
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         no (crash)
      SAVES-         N/A
_________________________________________________________________

tmad_1
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes (artifacts)
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         yes
      SAVES-         no (crash)
_________________________________________________________________

tmad_3
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         yes (artifacts)
      EXTRACTS-              yes
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         yes
      SAVES-         no (crash)
_________________________________________________________________

zmind1
   GAST:
      VIEWS-         no (crash)
      EXTRACTS-              N/A
   PALMER:
      OPENS-         yes
      SAVES-         crash after 2nd png
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Rurounin on 2009-08-30 09:53:34
Just wanted to show a something that might work, I'm surprised no one have mentioned yet, this is just an example to get my point across, it's way too dark and not really true to the original.
It's fairly easy but it will require some time to make it look good, more complex scenes with a lot of round objects is obviously gonna be a lot harder. Not overdoing it might be an issue, like i just did.
Also i don't expect the whole scene to worked be like this, only the parts that looks too blurry.

I just slapped a texture onto the ground and blended it with the background (overlay i think, and some "blend if") and then added some slight highlights where needed.

http://bayimg.com/fadmDAAcj (http://bayimg.com/fadmDAAcj)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-08-30 13:11:01
^ It is high-quality but definitely not true to the theme of the game: This example shows an upper-level Midgar station in disrepair. In the game, it is dirty but surly not in the state of disrepair.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-08-30 13:15:53
hello, new to the forums but have been following a few threads intently (including this one)
I aim to experiment with a few field backgrounds and have successfully extracted all but 17 png images from the ff7 field files within flevel.LGP
The errors encountered tend to vary but there are similar trends and it would be interesting to hear feedback about fixes via hexedits.
Otherwise the following list may prove helpful as a guide to why particular files dont open. thx :)

Thank you for your excellent testing, some things I could not reproduce (basically anything that errored on load and didn't crash, what did you use to unpack the lzs compression?) but three kinds of "broken" field files have been identified and are now being handled a little more gracefully. All files in your list now load and export fine.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Rurounin on 2009-08-30 13:28:15
^ It is high-quality but definitely not true to the theme of the game: This example shows an upper-level Midgar station in disrepair. In the game, it is dirty but surly not in the state of disrepair.

Yeah, i was just exaggerating a bit to make the changes obvious, i did some more subtle attempts but it didn't really show the effect that well so i wasn't sure anyone would see it, it's not really a good texture for the scene, it looks decent but it's not true to the original, like you said.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Fleet Command on 2009-08-31 23:13:18
^ Still, it is a high-quality work. I like it. I'll keep it in my archive under the title "Midgar station after WEAPON attack". I'll add your info to the file.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: KnifeTheSky77 on 2009-08-31 23:28:55
Just wanted to show a something that might work, I'm surprised no one have mentioned yet, this is just an example to get my point across, it's way too dark and not really true to the original.
It's fairly easy but it will require some time to make it look good, more complex scenes with a lot of round objects is obviously gonna be a lot harder. Not overdoing it might be an issue, like i just did.
Also i don't expect the whole scene to worked be like this, only the parts that looks too blurry.

I just slapped a texture onto the ground and blended it with the background (overlay i think, and some "blend if") and then added some slight highlights where needed.

http://bayimg.com/fadmDAAcj (http://bayimg.com/fadmDAAcj)

O.o
wow... you just made my day  :-)
You're right in that it doesnt match the art of the game but... holy god. that is lookin snazzy  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: willis936 on 2009-09-02 04:00:58
I want to make sure this is right:
.3a is the latest version out
and if I go through and touch up a good amount of backgrounds I'm allowed to share here right?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: BrokenCrowe (Mendelevium) on 2009-09-08 00:43:04
Alright. I am having an issue with palmer.
It is set to compatibility mode for windows XP SP2, is being run as admin.
My OS is windows Vista.

I open up palmer. Its an empty black box... like usual. But, when i go right (or left.. can't remember) click, to open up the sub menu... such as open field file, export, import... that sort of thing. All i get is a black box(shown at the bottom right) .

(http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv286/Blood_Crowe/palmerissues.jpg)

It runs fine on my XP computer at my other place, but i don't usually mod on that computer. lol.
I want to start redoing some of the backgrounds.

Thanks,

Soul_Torn...

*edit*
when i click on the black box.. i get open file , and save file still... i just can't see what i am doing. -.-
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-09-13 15:54:54
Palmer seems to crash when handling high resolution images. As far as i can tell 1920x1440 and up doesnt work. 1280x960 seems fine
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: death_gigas on 2009-10-10 15:13:50
how can u use it????
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Cloud_NSA on 2009-10-10 17:54:59
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/879/dibujosu.jpg)

what's wrong? Can I add a bigger image?

I can't  :?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-10-10 17:56:51
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/879/dibujosu.jpg)

what's wrong? Can I add a bigger image?

I can't  :?

You have to have the same image size for all images. Including animation images as well.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Cloud_NSA on 2009-10-10 19:46:50
all the images in the folder have the same resolution. Whats the problem?
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2009-10-11 07:47:56
The new size must be an even multiple of the original, this is required so all the tiles will align properly, any other sizes would look terrible in game.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Cloud_NSA on 2009-10-11 12:18:39
Ahhh!! Yeah, thanks aali =D
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: death_gigas on 2009-10-11 14:01:29
how can i use palmer?....
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-10-11 15:12:36
how can i use palmer?....
download and experiment.  You keep asking all these question and making threads, use the search function and find it.  Every question you have asked has already been answered, and simply asking "how can i use palmer?"is not gonna get you anywhere.  Read the the previous pages in this thread to see how to use palmer.

lee
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: death_gigas on 2009-10-11 16:31:40
whats the lifestream project?..
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: LeeHiOoO on 2009-10-12 04:43:52
how can i use palmer?....
download and experiment.  You keep asking all these question and making threads, use the search function and find it.  Every question you have asked has already been answered, and simply asking "how can i use palmer?"is not gonna get you anywhere.  Read the the previous pages in this thread to see how to use palmer.

lee

whats the lifestream project?..


Sad...
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: death_gigas on 2009-10-12 07:25:22
ok ok ......
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Cloud_NSA on 2009-10-13 18:16:47
my first use with palmer =D

(http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/7756/md1stin000000000.png) (http://img376.imageshack.us/i/md1stin000000000.png/)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-10-13 19:17:25
a little grainy but looks good.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-10-13 19:45:07
the original is kinda grainy, My note is that it's a tad darker, But i think it's not a bad touch. now. see how it looks ingame haha
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2009-10-13 20:35:00
I'm quite certain that Cloud_NSA's version is a lot grainier than the original.

The darkening has an interesting effect; I can't tell just by looking at it whether it would be better or worse in game (and a lot of video games are too dark), however, there is a chance that it would improve the atmosphere and make the start of the game feel more intense. (however, I would prefer the colour scheme to be kept to the original as closely as possible for most background mods)
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: pyrozen on 2009-10-13 21:34:46
i like it!
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-10-14 00:55:06
Question, did you simply just upscale the image? because it seems to keep most of the original quality except for the clock face which seems to be whited out and the image is a little darker
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2010-01-29 05:42:53
Sorry for the necro but i couldn't see starting a new thread for this. I was trying to import a new background into the game and the way the driver calls the png doesnt seem to match the output from palmer. I tried hex editing and the game found some of the png's but it couldnt find others and didnt mention that it did not find them. Aali if you need more info let me know.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2010-01-29 07:06:16
The latest release of Palmer is more than a bit out of date by now. Hopefully I can get a new release out soon.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: KnifeTheSky77 on 2010-01-29 19:24:35
You have filled me with happiness my sweet walrus  :-)
Black and white ff7, here i cometh
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2010-02-02 07:14:13
Sorry for the necro but i couldn't see starting a new thread for this. I was trying to import a new background into the game and the way the driver calls the png doesnt seem to match the output from palmer. I tried hex editing and the game found some of the png's but it couldnt find others and didnt mention that it did not find them. Aali if you need more info let me know.

I know it doesn't work for unpaletted layers but there should be no problems with regular paletted ones. Is this what you have discovered as well?
The driver doesn't say when it falls back on palette 0 because the requested palette couldn't be found, but it should always tell you when nothing could be loaded at all.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2010-02-02 15:18:55
I am not quite sure if the background images were palleted as palmer extracts them as 24bit pngs and i have no other way of viewing them. As for the driver it tried to load the external pngs but there was a naming problem with the way palmer edited the original file. I went in and changed the names of them but for some reason if would find files that you had named file_01_number and file_02_number but not the ones that were named file_03_number. Sorry i dont know any more information to give.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2010-02-27 11:24:22
http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.4b.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.4b.zip)

Finally remembered to release a new version of Palmer, this one will fix a lot of issues with 0.3a, unfortunately it's also (somewhat) incompatible with 0.3a exports.

External texture references are no longer simple file names that depend on what you name the field file when you save it, it is instead hardcoded to "field/<name of input file>/<name of input file>_<layer>.png". Palmer will tell you the exact path when you save the file. This avoids a couple of nasty bugs in 0.3a and will also not lead to a complete mess when you start modifying more than one field background since each one now has it's own directory.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2010-02-27 14:40:08
Can we use larger resolution images? :3
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2010-02-27 15:16:11
When i try to import a png into palmer that is of a larger size it just shows up as white and does not export any images.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2010-02-27 16:57:55
Are you trying to import an old 0.3a export?
It's working fine on my end, starting with a clean 0.4b export.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2010-02-27 17:34:54
All i did was open up the field file from the flevel.lgp and then try to import the images that xeno created. Palmer shows a white screen. When i try to export it, it makes a new field file, gives me a message about file name but does not export any png's
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: Aali on 2010-02-27 20:31:08
Ah so it's quite likely that it's a 0.3a export then? Those images will have to be remade or atleast renamed, because 0.4b has a slightly different layout when it comes to exports/imports.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: sl1982 on 2010-02-27 20:37:30
So if i export the png's from the field file and rename the png's to correspond it should work?

Edit: tried that and it works
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: BlitzNCS on 2010-04-04 00:14:34
Sorry for reviving this, but Aali, if you haven't stopped working on Palmer, may I request some stuff?
Just a couple things I'd like to see in this program.

Firstly, an option to export the current frame as a flat image would be handy, for remaking the BGs.

Secondly, is it possible to export the whole thing, layers and animations and all, into a layered .png or .psd file? So like, different animations and such on different layers, as opposed to all these as seperate images altogether. Photoshop doesn't seem to like me dragging them all in, and I'm too lazy to manually paste them all in.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: darkken on 2010-04-04 00:32:17
For remaking BGs, easy way to get a flat image is to just hit Print Screen and paste into whichever image editor you use.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: BlitzNCS on 2010-04-04 00:57:38
I know, That's what I've been doing. (Btw, Alt+PrtSc = 10x better than PrtSc alone)
But it's quite to get it pixel perfect with that method, and I'd prefer to get the exact correct size etc with the click of a button. Just a suggestion
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: darkken on 2010-04-04 01:09:03
I assume you'd be pasting it into a canvas that's the proper size, so Alt Print Screen wouldn't be any different from just Print Screen. I just export the pngs, print screen and paste over one of the pngs so you can line it up easily.

Anyway just arguing for argument's sake. You're right that it would save a few small steps.
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: hasterdis on 2010-07-02 05:44:56
Hi all, first of all, great work, but please can someone do a tutorial or something I don't understand very well sorry, what I have done is extract the png files of the first background but there is interminable backgrounds, it will take forever to modify all the backgrounds, so I have 2 questions:
1st. This palmer editor really change the background to hi res? because I don't understand, you all say, resize the png files but what with it, why the resized :S and it will take forever to resize ALL the png files of ALL the backgrounds don't you think the same?
2nd. It will be great and better if you Aali do a team like the avalanche team or the phoenix team that do the modifies of the game, because the background modify is a good point to do it.
Hope you can answer my questions and please don't confuse my questions, this is an excellent program and is really difficult to do it yet. Don't think that I am understimating your work, thanks in advance and sorry my bad english :P
Title: Re: Palmer
Post by: nikfrozty on 2010-07-02 10:15:39
Hi all, first of all, great work, but please can someone do a tutorial or something I don't understand very well sorry, what I have done is extract the png files of the first background but there is interminable backgrounds, it will take forever to modify all the backgrounds, so I have 2 questions:
1st. This palmer editor really change the background to hi res? because I don't understand, you all say, resize the png files but what with it, why the resized :S and it will take forever to resize ALL the png files of ALL the backgrounds don't you think the same?
2nd. It will be great and better if you Aali do a team like the avalanche team or the phoenix team that do the modifies of the game, because the background modify is a good point to do it.
Hope you can answer my questions and please don't confuse my questions, this is an excellent program and is really difficult to do it yet. Don't think that I am understimating your work, thanks in advance and sorry my bad english :P
You shouldn't revive old topics unless your going to post really important stuff. Lock please. :)
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Fleet Command on 2010-08-10 20:21:51
So, this topic moved here, eh? I guess those who are new here need to know Aali no longer needs a name anymore. "Palmer" has been already selected. More than year ago, am I right?
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Kudistos Megistos on 2010-08-10 20:40:19
So, this topic moved here, eh? I guess those who are new here need to know Aali no longer needs a name anymore. "Palmer" has been already selected. More than year ago, am I right?

A little heads up: you're going to get shouted at. ;D
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: obesebear on 2010-08-11 01:00:39
So, this topic moved here, eh? I guess those who are new here need to know Aali no longer needs a name anymore. "Palmer" has been already selected. More than year ago, am I right?
Haha.  1 year ago, good guess.  You know how I knew that?  Because I checked the date of that post, and it was literally over a year ago :lol: 

Wa wa wa wa warning




Mod Edit on mod post!!:  Merged two topics together so the necro doesn't look as ridiculous.  The fact still remains it was originally over 1 year old, so whatevs.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Fleet Command on 2010-08-11 10:16:25
Well, I wouldn't know which date you could have checked because before merger, on my screen, the date read: "Yesterday".

EDIT: Right now it reads "2009-05-20".
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Covarr on 2011-02-18 16:54:37
I'm not normally one to necro, but I thought this was relevant. Since a few people have asked for it and the link is not working correctly, here is an alternate link to the same thing on the same server.

Palmer 0.4b (http://85.24.185.102/share/palmer-0.4b.zip)

Friggin' DNS errors.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: yarLson on 2011-03-12 16:47:02
Umm I'm just a little curious as to if a newer version of Palmer will be release anytime in the near future (next couple months). I know this is a selfish question to ask, its just that I am dying in errors with my current project and I really need a more stable version of this. It would save me so much time and headache. The reason it would be useful to know is because if there is going to be a newer version relatively soon, then i may just hold off on my project until its release.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Arsirus UK on 2011-05-03 11:38:57
Does anyone know the best program to use and the settings to get the images back into the Game??

Created a PNG of the Train Station but Palmer won`t pick it up.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Aali on 2011-06-18 16:34:43
http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.5b.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.5b.zip)

Fixed a ton of bugs that could either crash palmer or lead to broken exports/imports. All field files should be working 100% now, if you find anything that doesn't let me know.

Removed old external texture support, its all modpath now, palmer will no longer write field files, only textures.

Added batch export/import functionality, very rough and un-userfriendly since it was kind of a last minute hack but as far as I know it works well enough. Specify filenames on the command line, select batch export from the main menu and palmer will export the files you have specified to the current working directory in folders named "<field file>_batch". Batch import works the same way, reads all those files back in and creates an "output" directory with modpath-ready textures.

If there are any problems with this release they should be fixed rather quickly, it will not take another 16 months.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Rheikon on 2011-06-18 22:36:07
Hey I made a frontend for the batch part. Trying to make it a little easier to use putting files on the command line. Just put this app in the same place palmer is.

Let me know if there is a problem.

Code: [Select]
http://www.mediafire.com/?a0btb4nc6o7hpx8
EDIT: small fix if you didnt select any files to launch or palmer not found.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Omzy on 2011-06-20 19:25:43
Excellent, excellent work. The front-end is nice too Rheikon  :lol:.
I'll be testing this over the next couple of days, but so far it appears to work perfectly. You are assured that it will be put to good use.

Edit: I did find a small bug in the program. The parallax layer of anfrst_1 looks fine in Palmer, but when you export it to PNG, it loses some sprites in the process:
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/176/parallaxviewer.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/parallaxviewer.png/)
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/665/parallaxexport.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/parallaxexport.png/)
This also happens on some of the other anfrst backgrounds and is most noticeable on _3 and _4.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Aali on 2011-06-22 22:24:17
http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.6b.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.6b.zip)

Fixed the bug mentioned above :) Parallax layers should export&import just fine now.
Also unbroke manual, non-batched imports. Guess noone noticed but if you tried to do a manual import layers would overwrite each other so if you had a normal layer and a parallax layer only the parallax layer would be imported.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Omzy on 2011-06-23 07:12:32
Niiice! I've done a quick check on all the exported backgrounds and everything seems to be in working order (with the exception of a few missing blocks and pixels that are messed up in the original game). Looks like you can close the book on this one  :-D
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Azrael_SEt on 2011-07-26 02:31:01
This works so perfect. Thank you.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Luyeh on 2012-02-12 16:17:03
Apologies if I necroed this post, didn't wanna make a new thread for something trivial.

I was wondering if anyone could provide a download link of this great tool, the original link appears to be dead. :(

Cheers
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: myst6re on 2012-02-12 17:30:51
palmer-0.6b.zip (http://wikisquare.ffdream.com/public/palmer-0.6b.zip)
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Aali on 2012-07-18 13:37:37
Managed to squash a few more minor issues thanks to Omzy's keen eye for Palmer bugs.

http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.7b.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.7b.zip)

Some non-paletted layers were acting up in 0.6b, they're all good now.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Salk on 2012-07-19 14:18:36
Thank you so much for your work, Aali.

Vi är stolta över dig!  ;)
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-15 16:50:45
Hate to bump an old thread like this but I found a minor bug in Palmer.  The field scenes "fr_e" and "lastmap" crash consistently when trying to export or import.  They actually do the export or import but then it crashes.  I am not sure if it is spitting out all the layers before it crashes or only a few of the layers.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Aali on 2014-07-15 19:20:57
Bah, that one issue has been causing so many problems.. As far as I can tell those files are just broken, using palettes that don't exist. I'll post an updated version as soon as I get around to making one.
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: Aali on 2014-07-15 22:38:37
There we go, that should do it.

http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.8b.zip (http://backup.ninjaloot.se/share/palmer-0.8b.zip)

 - Fixed crash on export for some (broken) field files
Title: Re: Palmer - Field background editor
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-16 05:35:08
Awesome, so there were missing layers as I suspected! Thanks as always  ;D
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-18 18:04:56
Sorry for double posting, but I found another small bug in Palmer.  The scene "bigwheel" doesn't export all layers; the gondola is completely missing save for its door.  It doesn't even show up in the scene when you open it and expose all layers, this happened in 0.7b and 0.8b.  I think I remember earlier versions (maybe 0.5b) exporting this correctly, I know because this scene shows up fine in my old Blackfan pack which means I had access to this layer at some point.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-18 18:08:08
The gondola is a 3D object it the Char.lgp. I see if I can find the name of it.

It's GCJC.hrc
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-18 18:12:12
It may be there too but I am pretty sure I never had to mess with char.lgp during the Blackfan days yet it shows up fine when I use my old files from back then, and its obvious that layers are missing since the door is there and the rest of the gondola is not.



I don't even know how to open that file lol
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-18 18:24:51
Open it in Makou Reactor and look at the states, the gondola is a 3D object but the open door is the only part of it, which is part of the background.
(http://s1.directupload.net/images/140718/ndrdryf8.jpg)
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-18 18:38:02
Okay guess I am just an idiot then, lol I just checked again and the reason it looks better with my old files is because I removed the door texture so the gondola looks more consistent even if its pixelated.  Guess I'll have to do that for now.  Strange that they used a 3d object in this scene though, since similar moving objects are just moving layers.  Like Rufus's lift in Junon.  Sorry for the false positive  :'(
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2014-07-18 18:46:41
The good thing about it is that we can make a full 3D object to replace.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-29 18:20:24
anyone have palmer 0.7b i am getting crashes on empty layers with 0.8b that I wasn't getting with 0.7b but now the link is dead.  This is significantly slowing down the import process.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-07-29 18:37:21
Palmer 0.7b: https://mega.co.nz/#!6tBjiBrL!qN6FHRvAnD-aSzYraYC6cvpIoZYcr73GSE_YTBwu5lk
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-29 20:16:38
okay so I think I found another issue.  Palmer can't seem to find files that are under a certain file size.  For example I have a layer that is just one small sliver in bugin1b and after compression it is only 1.96 kb.  Palmer says the file is missing presumably because its so small (can't think of any other reason, as its formatted exactly the same as the other images).  Any chance this can be fixed so I can finish importing?
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Aali on 2014-07-29 20:35:24
Please provide details on how to reproduce any problems you've found in 0.8b.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-29 20:45:32
here (https://anonfiles.com/file/3e24f63abbe39cc20d1ce5d27e268b87) is my upscaled version of bugin1b.  The file bugin1b_0_00000516.png is there but if you try to import it into palmer 0.8b or earlier versions Palmer just ignores that file and says its missing.  Again the only reason I can guess is because the file size is sub 2 kb.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2014-07-29 22:53:05
Have you tried ways to save that file above 2kb and if Palmer then recognizes it? Would be an easy way to confirm your theory.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Aali on 2014-07-29 23:33:46
here (https://anonfiles.com/file/3e24f63abbe39cc20d1ce5d27e268b87) is my upscaled version of bugin1b.  The file bugin1b_0_00000516.png is there but if you try to import it into palmer 0.8b or earlier versions Palmer just ignores that file and says its missing.  Again the only reason I can guess is because the file size is sub 2 kb.

That file is an 8-bit paletted PNG. Palmer only supports truecolor images, 24- or 32-bit. Error reporting could be better in this case..

Now what about that crash?
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: yarLson on 2014-07-30 05:43:29
That file is an 8-bit paletted PNG. Palmer only supports truecolor images, 24- or 32-bit. Error reporting could be better in this case..

Now what about that crash?

omg man how the heck did I overlook that I am sorry.  Can I change this in photoshop?

*edit*
never mind I figured it out.  How stupid of me!  Sorry if I made it seem like I was experiencing two different errors this was the only "crash"  I had, though its more of an error on my part.  Although a feature that logs errors to a file and continues batch processing instead of stopping on every error would be hella useful.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Redz on 2015-04-19 23:33:33
This is for the 1998 version, right? There is no way of using it with the 2012 version?
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-04-20 06:54:09
Right, there is no way.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: satsuki on 2015-07-14 13:31:37
Hello i can't download palmer 0.8b, can anyone post a mirror ?
Thanks a lot
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: satsuki on 2015-07-18 08:07:15
Anyone use this tool ?
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: satsuki on 2015-07-19 07:15:15
By the way is there any way to use palmer with commandline instead of gui ?
Thanks
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: joca.bt on 2015-07-19 18:03:55
It has a functionality for batch importing/exporting. Not sure how it works though. Never managed to get it working properly :/.

Edit: have you tried Makou Reactor? It's easier to use and to extract backgrounds with, in my opinion, but needs a lot of mouse work.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: yarLson on 2015-07-20 04:04:09
you can do the batch work right in palmer gui and its pretty simple if I remember correctly if you have it mind uploading for me I actually think I like this new algorithm afterall and I would like to do some in game tests
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: satsuki on 2015-07-20 06:39:00
I only have the 0.7b (https://mega.co.nz/#!6tBjiBrL!qN6FHRvAnD-aSzYraYC6cvpIoZYcr73GSE_YTBwu5lk (https://mega.co.nz/#!6tBjiBrL!qN6FHRvAnD-aSzYraYC6cvpIoZYcr73GSE_YTBwu5lk)), i never found a 0.8b valid link.
I've tried the batch import or export function but can't make it works (i probably didn't do it in the right way.)
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-07-20 15:57:28
Here is the 0.8b built:
https://mega.co.nz/#!LMVEUSYR!3HtOv5rHeL86YfH6LStewib0GB4nJu5gqgmYBwxn-HA
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: satsuki on 2015-07-20 17:07:54
Thanks !
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: EQ2Alyza on 2015-07-20 23:03:22
Thanks :)
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: ghneu on 2015-07-23 07:35:11
Hi, I'm trying to figure out why animated textures get glitched after being resized (see for example under this topic : http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=11933.0).
That's most probably because these textures are "transparent".

Palmer uses the png format which, I believe, cannot handle transparency information.

After discussing with Makou reactor's programmer, I think it means the textures contain erroneous/useless informations (dark pixels around the image), shifting the location of the texture when the game tries to place it... thus creating glitches.

Haven't found a way around this yet...   :?
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Aavock on 2015-07-23 15:26:20
Hello ghneu,

*.png files does handle transparency information; is it only a layer or the entire scene? Can you provide a screen of the texture shifting?
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-07-24 04:18:06
We are talking about the lightlayers right? This is a problem with aali's driver in general. After you resize these textures you make the color pallet bigger as the game can handle. If you look closely you will see that the game use pretty less colors for the backgrounds which is the actual problem for resize projects. Anyway there was already a discussion about that problem and aali said that only a shader based solution will work.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: ghneu on 2015-07-24 06:31:59
Thanks for your replies, yep I'm talking about the animation layers including lightlayers.
So the glitches aren't related to the png format but rather to palette problems.

You must be right because I have a "missing palette write to external texture field" error message.
I could not locate the topic where the issue was discussed.

I do not understand why there are no palette problems with the backgrounds themselves and why the lightlayers are glitched though.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-07-24 13:53:29
Let me explain it this way: the game is able to  change the alpha value of the lightlayers so it ins't a real animation. But to  change the alpha channel the game needs the pallet to  know which colors have an alpha value and it seems that pallet needs to  have a certain amount of colors (that's how i understand it). I haven't looked in the script if it is there handeled but i doupt it is there.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Aavock on 2015-07-24 15:25:02
Does this problem would persist using the 2012/Steam version with Tonberry external texture support?
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-07-24 17:17:45
I think that tonberry would dump every single change oft the backgrounds. But I assume the textures tonberry produce will differ from the one aali's driver uses. But i cant say if it will or will not work with tonberry.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: Kaldarasha on 2015-07-24 18:26:40
... I haven't looked in the script if it is there handled but i doupt it is there.

I have looked at it and it is handled there. But it seems that already at the maximum of 256 (16bites?). So the question is if we can expand this somehow.
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: jmp434 on 2016-03-08 15:36:20
Hi, there will there be a possibility to extract the field and to re-import a new stage with the filtered animations? For my job recreating the 3D really be very useful to me to reproduce something real .. If you remove the "png" file from light eg animation works but is made of square, there is certainly a how to solve this problem right?

Sorry for my bad English .
Title: Re: [FF7PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: bobbythejobby on 2016-10-07 10:49:01
Hey where Can I download this field texture editor?  The Link on page one is broken :( To clarify when I download version 8.0b, I extract and run it it just opens a black window with the heading Palmer FF7 Field background editor, but it has no menus or anything
Title: Re: [PC] Field background editor - Palmer (0.8b)
Post by: satsuki on 2018-09-27 06:46:31
Hello.
This tool is great but i can't find a way to use it with command line.
I'd like to extract each animation full frame of each field scene.

Any idea ?

Thanks a lot