Qhimm.com Forums

Final Fantasy Forums => Archive => Topic started by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 01:54:43

Title: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 01:54:43
Hello!

((Sorry for making a topic. I want the answers clearly listed and me not having to search topics to find one answer. If these questions been answered, please post a link to them))

Okay I am an advance 3D modeler, with 3Ds Max. And I have a couple questions.

-How many polys can the Pc version of FFVII accept? Terrain and Character.
--Answered: A budget of each character 5k. On screen max polys 100k polys.

-What maps(diffuse,bump,light,alpha,normals, etc.) can the game accept?
--Answered: Diffuse and alpha only. Alpha can only use one color to have transparency.

-Map sizes
--Answered: Models should be in a multiple of 4. Always doubled from one another, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, ect
(1024x1024)

-How will the new models replace the models with animation?
--Answered: Animation is divided to limbs for each file.

I am pretty good at copying styles from games and know about the legal issue of ripping models.
I challenge this concept with a similar style of models from other games.

Thank you,
Dustor.

Editing for info answered to first post
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-27 01:59:06
i'm not sure of the polycount limit, but it can handle probably upwards of 100k polies i think, shouldnt need more than 5kish per character though.

textures difuse only, if you want transparency they support palettes, assign one color to be transparent. as to animation, there is no mesh deformation, so you make a model for each "bone" (each of which is a file) and you replace chunk by chunk... if they are proportional, animation wont get too messed up.

Can ya post osme of yer work?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 02:05:53
i'm not sure of the polycount limit, but it can handle probably upwards of 100k polies i think, shouldnt need more than 5kish per character though.

textures difuse only, if you want transparency they support palettes, assign one color to be transparent. as to animation, there is no mesh deformation, so you make a model for each "bone" (each of which is a file) and you replace chunk by chunk... if they are proportional, animation wont get too messed up.

Can ya post osme of yer work?




Thank You timu sumisu, for the quick response. I post my work on here with a model for the game soon after I get enough information in how to model them.

 I know a lot of Zbrush and 3ds max sculpting and bakeing textures as a diffuse after normal is applied.

The animation you describe as limbs being exported as parts? Legs, Arms, body, head? It isn't an issue right now since it will be easy to just detach it before texturing.

proportional as in symmetry? If so, than it won't be an issue.

Thank you.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-27 02:08:19
proportional as in the peices you make are the same size as the originals :P

any of your previous works you can see?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 02:16:59
Hmm last question.

How big are the texture size?

edit: What model should I do first?  :-P
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: KnifeTheSky77 on 2009-08-27 02:27:02
I suggest Cid, Yuffie or Vincent as timu hasnt gotten around to those yet
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Blood_Crow (Mendelevium) on 2009-08-27 02:28:49
 I agree with Timu on this one, may we see some images of any past works you may have done?
  :wink:

Thanks,

The Blood Crow

*edit*

I believe the textures have to be in multiples of 512 by 512 pixels? Please correct me if i am wrong, i haven't really worked in that aspect of FF7.
>.>
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-27 02:30:12
i've actually started on cid, n i'd like to reserve the last of the main characters, as to what you should do... do you like more organic or mechanical things? i'd say do bosses, guard scorpion, appz etc
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-08-27 02:34:33
with Aali's driver i believe you can use any texture size. I think optimum is something like 1024 x 1024 (correct me if i'm wrong)

Blood_crow, things need to be in a multiple of 4 pretty much always doubled from one another, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, ect
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 02:34:51
I agree with Timu on this one, may we see some images of any past works you may have done?
  :wink:

Thanks,

The Blood Crow


I sent a PM to Timu, so talk to him.

i've actually started on cid, n i'd like to reserve the last of the main characters, as to what you should do... do you like more organic or mechanical things? i'd say do bosses, guard scorpion, appz etc

Sure anything is fine. Just name it.

Is there any files I should have before I start? So that I can keep things proportional?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-08-27 02:45:35
Biturn(it's on the wiki), Kimera( http://www.megaupload.com/?d=LX8UER9E ), image2tex( http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B2KFZX9M ), Aali's LGP tools ( http://www.mediafire.com/?zz2adyze5km )

Think thats all you need, might be missing one or two things
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-27 02:50:21
sorry i'm postin yer link here

www.lv3da.org

we've had a number of phonies/bailouts recently so despite it being open work with no real responsibilities, its nice to see that someone is competent. 

Use biturn to view and extract the files, and for shape you should base it on that, as to textures if your making new ones, you have free reign, if you're replacing existing ones, they need to stay the same, just upgraded in whatever way you see fit
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 02:56:34
sorry i'm postin yer link here

www.lv3da.org

we've had a number of phonies/bailouts recently so despite it being open work with no real responsibilities, its nice to see that someone is competent. 

Use biturn to view and extract the files, and for shape you should base it on that, as to textures if your making new ones, you have free reign, if you're replacing existing ones, they need to stay the same, just upgraded in whatever way you see fit

Okay thats fine. Should of done that first.

My name is Victor. The recent image I posted on my site www.lv3da.org, has the gecko that I recently finished today.

Great you guys are really making this quick for me. So what model should you guys suggest for me to do?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-27 03:00:31
do you like more organic or mechanical things? i'd say do bosses, guard scorpion, appz etc
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 03:01:57
do you like more organic or mechanical things? i'd say do bosses, guard scorpion, appz etc

Okay I make a surprise pick than.  :-D
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-08-27 03:09:42
Wow amazing work
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 03:15:24
Wow amazing work

lol hey thanks alot! I really appreciate it.  :-D
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-27 03:22:53
so spill the beans... what are ye making?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 03:24:43
so spill the beans... what are ye making?

You just have to wait and find out.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-08-27 03:27:09
so spill the beans... what are ye making?

You just have to wait and find out.

pssst. you can tell me
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 05:16:32
Okay I give out a clue. I picked a hard one and starts with a D. And thats all I am going to say. Might be awhile before a pic comes out, I have school and work >_<`.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-27 05:18:05
its name starts with d, or the filename?

options include

dark nation, dyne, demon's gate none strikes me as particularly hard but i'm curious to see what you come up wtih
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 10:00:24
Making:...

D..ia...p..n
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Eslava on 2009-08-27 10:30:47
DIAMOND PIN!
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 10:31:33
DIAMOND PIN!

haha so close, but the dots are just random.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Eslava on 2009-08-27 10:33:30
Oh, so no diamond weapon then?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 10:38:11
Oh, so no diamond weapon then?

Ding Ding Ding!!!'

Here is your prize!
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6165/preview1m.jpg)
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Eslava on 2009-08-27 10:47:26
woah! so cool! you started with a big one thats nice! keep up the good work  :-)
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 10:51:14
woah! so cool! you started with a big one thats nice! keep up the good work  :-)

Yea it is actually huge in 3ds max. The default grid is a tiny spic on the screen. lol.

Thank you though.

I am starting to wonder how I am going to import this into the game...I have them in pieces and know the names of each part, but the textures... Oh well we see what happens.  :-D
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Borde on 2009-08-27 11:05:34
I'd just like to point out that actually FF7 supports non-square textures. Of course, it relies on the GPU driver for using them so, if the driver doesn't support them, they won't work.
As for transparencies, you can also make a P model 50% transparent. It seems to be rather buggy though (bad polygons sorting), so I'd advise against using that.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-27 13:24:34
looks good, have you made the parts over the original? you can rip it with biturn from battle.lgp, its one of the first ones, if you dont get what i mean, check my tutorial : http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=zzPk91xmtNo

on a note of guessing my fail, i checked a list of bosses, but it had weapons in a diff section *stupid me*

looking good, play with the original to make sure you have all the necessary peices, not sure what they are but looks good, can't wait for more wip shots
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Covarr on 2009-08-27 17:45:37
Diamond Weapon, huh?

Wait, that's not ultimate, ruby, or emerald, so it doesn't count.. :S
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-08-27 17:50:28
Hot damn that looks great. Give us all a couple more years and there wont be any original assets left in the game lol
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Blood_Crow (Mendelevium) on 2009-08-27 18:06:43
*edit*
this post made useless, by my utter lacking to read.
>.>
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-27 19:58:08
looks good, have you made the parts over the original? you can rip it with biturn from battle.lgp, its one of the first ones, if you dont get what i mean, check my tutorial : http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=zzPk91xmtNo

on a note of guessing my fail, i checked a list of bosses, but it had weapons in a diff section *stupid me*

looking good, play with the original to make sure you have all the necessary peices, not sure what they are but looks good, can't wait for more wip shots

Yep I have the original as my base and use it for proportional size. I spent an hour learning the tools before starting the model. Its was fun.

I update some more to the model tonight if I get a chance. Just need to do the head and feet.

I'd just like to point out that actually FF7 supports non-square textures. Of course, it relies on the GPU driver for using them so, if the driver doesn't support them, they won't work.
As for transparencies, you can also make a P model 50% transparent. It seems to be rather buggy though (bad polygons sorting), so I'd advise against using that.

Ah thanks for the tip! I experiment it when I get a chance.


Thank You!
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-28 07:44:37
I am working on the head right now. Its messy right now because I am making adjustments. It also has too many polys on the head right now and needs to be lowered by wielding vertices.

(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/8390/preview2k.jpg)

Edit: I cleaned it up.  :-P

Here is the progress so far. Just need to add the feet and other misc. Oh and also the arms and hands...

(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4513/preview3.jpg)

After doing the modeling, I am going to check out the poly count and lower it down to the best it can.




Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-31 02:08:19
dont quite remmber the head looking like that, but still, apears to be coming along great, though there is quite a bit of optimizing you can do :P
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-08-31 02:12:54
Can we get a look at it without the wireframe? Im having a hard time seeing how it looks as i just see lines
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-31 05:29:52
Can we get a look at it without the wireframe? Im having a hard time seeing how it looks as i just see lines

I am still optimizing and doing the texture phase. I post a screen shot when I have some textures ready.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-31 05:30:54
exciting, I'm looking forward to seeing it textured.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-31 05:51:40
was just looking at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyeghInqRAY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyeghInqRAY)

and realized the "tail" coming from the back of his head should be quite a bit wider.

just giving you the heads up
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-31 06:53:56
was just looking at this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyeghInqRAY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyeghInqRAY)

and realized the "tail" coming from the back of his head should be quite a bit wider.

just giving you the heads up

Ha! Thats funny because in the battle file it is thinner. But the head isn't final so I can edit it.

Here is a test with the normal applied with the shoulder on the side, you can see what effect I am trying to achieve here.

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/306/preview4t.jpg)

The normal is going to be baked with the texture, so the lighting isn't going to be an issue, in game I mean.

Yea I am overwhelmed with so many parts this thing has...lol.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-08-31 07:06:01
Lookin good!
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-31 09:08:31
This is going to be the last screen shot for awhile. Don't wanna keep spoiling it...lol.

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/497/preview5n.jpg)
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Decayrate on 2009-08-31 11:32:06
Look's about right ;) keep up the good work :)
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-31 14:48:51
thats some interesting color.... looks a little green/brown
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Satoh on 2009-08-31 15:07:39
I like it... it reminds me of the Lavos model Ian McConvall made. (Which I have been attempting to recreate for a long time)
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: obesebear on 2009-08-31 16:21:26
Oh man this looks exciting!  If you aren't going to be posting anymore spoilers... can we get an approximated finish time?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-08-31 20:39:45
Oh man this looks exciting!  If you aren't going to be posting anymore spoilers... can we get an approximated finish time?

Well the model it self, maybe in the middle in September. To have it in game, no clue, lol.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-08-31 20:45:01
a number of people here can quickly get it in game, it takes a couple hours, and some testing, but can end up taking up a few days... anyhow, whats with the color of your texture? the diamond weapon is rather... gray and... diamond colord, not brownish yellow?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-01 05:20:28
a number of people here can quickly get it in game, it takes a couple hours, and some testing, but can end up taking up a few days... anyhow, whats with the color of your texture? the diamond weapon is rather... gray and... diamond colord, not brownish yellow?

Well I never thought of a concept for the Diamond Weapon. I am going as I see it in my mind. The info I got was that Diamond came from Earth and I am creating it as parts of earth on him, but more organic.

Quote
Diamond Weapon is one of the creatures summoned by the planet as a defense mechanism when it is in a state of crisis.
http://www.finalfantasyunion.com/characters/diamond-weapon.html


 If you truly don't like where this is going, I can change the textures to what we can agree on. Since this is open to the public anyway.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-09-01 05:23:52
a number of people here can quickly get it in game, it takes a couple hours, and some testing, but can end up taking up a few days... anyhow, whats with the color of your texture? the diamond weapon is rather... gray and... diamond colord, not brownish yellow?

Well I never thought of a concept for the Diamond Weapon. I am going as I see it in my mind. The info I got was that Diamond came from Earth and I am creating it as parts of earth on him, but more organic.

Quote
Diamond Weapon is one of the creatures summoned by the planet as a defense mechanism when it is in a state of crisis.
http://www.finalfantasyunion.com/characters/diamond-weapon.html


 If you truly don't like where this is going, I can change the textures to what we can agree on. Since this is open to the public anyway.

Have you seen the diamond weapon fmv? I think that should be the definitive source for reference
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-01 05:26:03
Have you seen the diamond weapon fmv? I think that should be the definitive source for reference

Okay I will change it back to a stone look to him than.  :-P

What about the yellow inside part?
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-09-01 05:38:13
Have you seen the diamond weapon fmv? I think that should be the definitive source for reference

Okay I will change it back to a stone look to him than.  :-P

What about the yellow inside part?

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Final-Fantasy-Creatures-Vol-3-color-Diamond-Weapon-fig_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ130288378150 (http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Final-Fantasy-Creatures-Vol-3-color-Diamond-Weapon-fig_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ130288378150)

Diamond weapon figurine. Might help with figuring stuff out
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-01 05:44:56

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Final-Fantasy-Creatures-Vol-3-color-Diamond-Weapon-fig_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ130288378150 (http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Final-Fantasy-Creatures-Vol-3-color-Diamond-Weapon-fig_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ130288378150)

Diamond weapon figurine. Might help with figuring stuff out

Doesn't this contradict the FMV?  :|
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-09-01 05:49:02

http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Final-Fantasy-Creatures-Vol-3-color-Diamond-Weapon-fig_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ130288378150 (http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/Final-Fantasy-Creatures-Vol-3-color-Diamond-Weapon-fig_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ130288378150)

Diamond weapon figurine. Might help with figuring stuff out

Doesn't this contradict the FMV?  :|

I dont think so. Look at the fmv when he opens the shoulder things and shoots. Must be that
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Hellbringer616 on 2009-09-01 06:09:42
Liking how your model looks so far Duster, I agree that it needs the stonier texture though
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-01 06:10:25

I dont think so. Look at the fmv when he opens the shoulder things and shoots. Must be that

In the figure on ebay it is yellow in there, in the FMV it is only stone. But in the battle file there is nothing, and never opens that I can tell from.

Edit: but also in the FMV is a stone color, the ebay one is brownish.

I am confused, lol. I do some stone colors than.

Edit 3: I think I should keeping spoiling it, lol. Yea what the heck, I'll do it. I need some feedback anyhow.
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/5634/preview6.jpg)
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1553/preview7.jpg)
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Costa07 on 2009-09-01 09:41:42
wow excellent job man
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-01 09:53:19
wow excellent job man

Thank You! I am excited to see the out come of this.  :-D .
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Costa07 on 2009-09-01 09:57:47
Yeah same here so how long you think before you have that weapon completed
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-01 09:59:46
Yeah same here so how long you think before you have that weapon completed

Probably by the middle of September or sooner.  :wink:

Edit: Symmetry added.

(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1696/preview8.jpg)

((Just so you guys know, I only been having 4 hours each day since I started working on this))
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-09-01 23:09:56
You can see the inside of the shoulders at 1:19 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=bB07RggR4NU, that'll help a bit for the inside. Try to make the model as similar to the original, not to say that there wont be room for artistic interpretation, but the main points should be kept.

Think of the weapon as half biological and half mechanical. its effectively the planet's self defence mechanism. It makes the machines out of the planets resources. Also consider its name, the "diamond" weapon. so cold white/grayish rock, hard as diamond is i think a good description.

I'm not sure how much you optimized, but the model is starting to look a bit edgy. You can probably have 5-6k polies in the model if not a few more.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Costa07 on 2009-09-02 00:54:51
Wow amazing work for only 4 hours a day where did you learn how to texture like that
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-02 10:07:01
I have to start rushing because I have an other project I need to start. I am sorry if the out come will be something else you guys have in mind.

The poly issue for me is the original model had 18 files of models and is going over 2,000 to 3,000 polys with them alone. I can go back and add some more polys, if the model becomes too edgy. But I am already touching the limits already... Let me finish what I can and I see what we can do.

I updated the textures to a brighter contrast too.

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6026/preview9.jpg)
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-02 10:08:00
oops,  :-P..
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Timu Sumisu on 2009-09-02 15:32:50
If you want i can play with your model a bit :P
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Costa07 on 2009-09-02 20:34:53
impressive. now thats how you remodel somethin
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Harruzame on 2009-09-03 05:51:46
Now....That's what I call...

*sparkling* Earth Style Technique! *sparkling*

 8-)



Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-03 06:19:16
Now....That's what I call...

*sparkling* Earth Style Technique! *sparkling*

 8-)





Yea I notice, lol. I applied some shadows to knocked it down some. And I cleaned the textures to sharpen it up too.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: apz freak on 2009-09-03 09:10:07
Cheers! :-D
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: obesebear on 2009-09-04 02:00:57
That is really looking good, Dustor!

Maybe TOO good???....

Nah :-)
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Dustor on 2009-09-07 06:45:57
Hey thanks alot you guys!

I been trying to squeeze this into my time, but its been stressful these past couple of days.

Okay well I try to create a P file with P creator. I've been getting an error saying "Run-time Error '9': Subscript out of range". My guess is because I have UVW maps with overlapping faces, is this true?

Thank You for the support!

I just gotta texture the head and some other misc.
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: sl1982 on 2009-09-07 07:09:55
Dustor you have pm
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: obesebear on 2009-09-07 15:12:55
Hey thanks alot you guys!

I been trying to squeeze this into my time, but its been stressful these past couple of days.

Okay well I try to create a P file with P creator. I've been getting an error saying "Run-time Error '9': Subscript out of range". My guess is because I have UVW maps with overlapping faces, is this true?

Thank You for the support!

I just gotta texture the head and some other misc.
It's ok to have overlapping faces.  Of note, make sure the texture is 24bit bmp and try not to go over 1024x1024.  But if you must... that's fine  :-)
If you post your finished model, I'd be happy to put it in a FF7 format for you
Title: Re: A challenge
Post by: Harruzame on 2009-09-08 05:54:47
Yeah Come on Dustor...Its good to share your MODload once in a while..To relieve ya of your stress...Ya dig?