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Messages - Fraggoso

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I can confirm that hw now operates with win 10. :)
I'll update tomorrow after I spend some more time testing it but for now I could load, convert and import as well as do the macro for the highres backgrounds.


Just a small update for previous proof-of-convept patch. Pretty much the same thing, but I actually added all the moving objects. Layer edges are still dirty though. So not counting some occasional visual glitches, this is pretty much what it looks like. Though overall Alexandria streets are not as good looking as some other zones.

Edit: oh yeah you can not upgrade from previous patch. This have to be applied from scratch. Maybe I'll make upgrading later, assuming it will not increase the size by much.

Hey Meru, why is upgrading not possible?
Only asking as the tex gets overridden in the unity assets container? At least overriding something via HW isn't a problem. ;)

How did you do the moving parts? Layer by Layer with all alpha in it? If yes, maybe it would be good to point you to something like the shield in the alex alley which collide with the ground and gets hammered back in. If this looks good at your end, than everything else will (believe me, this one is/was a sucker on my end). ^^

I see. Now that you say it. It turns out to get a complete output I must check all the checkboxes 1st for that particular animation. Never bothered with that >__<

Yes you have to check the tiles or else you'll not get all the layers but only the base backgrounds +, if there're moving tiles, only the first aniamtion cycle.

I mean that in PC version animation is done by swapping layers at a right time. But in PSX, textures contain only a single layer, so there is nothing to swap. There are 2 possible outcomes. Whatever PSX engine generates extra frames on-the-fly based on that single layer, or HW's texture output is not complete.

Are you sure?
If I use HW to rip the psx tiles they're animated and are only tiles, so I suppose those are layers themself. But of course, I'm no technican. :/

Speaking of layers, I am curious about different thing. For each of the moving objects in PSX version, HW creates only a single layer. This includes everything: doors, flags, water, clocks... how they were animated then? PSX engine was distorting and moving the layers in various ways? But for example that fan from a picture I posted above (that is on the disabled layers). You can not create all these layers by moving or distorting the fan on PSX layer.

Edit: in addition to that. It is known that all the moving objects and most of the scenes even were originally created in 3D by various artists. So instead of distorting a layer they should have made a few "shots", the same way we see in PC version? So does the HW output for PSX really complete?

I don't understand what you mean exactly. ^^;

Heh, I was too focused on the problem we were discussing ^^
The templates you are talking about I am using of course, but only for now. They will have to be redone by hand at some point. Maybe with vector masks ( maybe something else, not sure yet.

I found it easier editing them via a new alphamask and just adding or deleting. That way you can instantly see if there're some problems.
But yes, they CAN look nice and it's a shame that Silicon Studio did that weird upres of the images as the seams aren't 1:1 anymore like they used to be on PSX. Now they look a little bit Frankenstein. >.<

Not sure what do you mean by "from scratch". You mean layer edges? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, but this doesn't matter. BTW the problem can be seen on some of your older screenshots of synthesist too.
Edit: of course for the final product all the layers must be redone. Leaving them as is and simply swapping backgrounds just makes things different kind of ugly from what it used to be with default backgrounds.

The dots are there because this is how HW creates textures. The problem is that these dots are outside of the range that must be shown on screen. I think that instead of trying to fix the engine, it is better mimic the way Silicon created textures. I dunno what the engine does there, nor I want to know, but these dots (and probably grid as well) look like a product of averaging with nearest pixels, like bilinear or better resampling or fxaa-style antialiasing (unlikely in this case since I think it works in screen-space only). When it happens that the nearest pixel is a black dot - sometimes we can see it on screen, when it happens to be imperfectly mirrored edge pixel - we see grid. The grid is very hard to spot if you deal with 64x64 tiles but quite easy with default ones.

I just wanted to know if you're doing the layer edges by hand instead of using a template (either PSX or Steam).
And yes, I also have these dots. It doesn't distracted me too much but they're there. :/

A reason why those filtering does happen is probably that a few parts of the backgrounds are in fact 3D objects and the games filtering (bilinear or trilinear) does affect these objects.

Nope, FFIX doesn't use any kind of 3D realtime models. Some 2D alpha effects like smoke is used but they not part of the static backgrounds and thus can't be filtered.

Hi Meru, are you creating all layers from scratch?
The engine is really nitpicking on the Layers. Slight variations done to the background layers opposed to all other layers can yield very bad results like gray/black seams and/or the dot's you're mentioning.

Yeah the moving parts looks ugly as hell if you don't filter them (and this is only the beginning, the game have it's share of moving tiles, somtimes 1 backgroundtile and 19 moving tiles). ^^

Hi Meru, I'm also working on the backgrounds and could do almost 30% in game now.
maybe we can join forces or we can just make a quick chat so we can learn from each other.

If you want to contact me via Steam, here's my profile:
Feel free to add me so we can discuss. :)

I've added a comparison from your and my work:
Your work really shines and the community deserves the best. The moving parts/tiles like the windmills where a little tricky. :)

The program works fine on my working laptop (from the company with Win 7). On my normal PC (win 10) it refuses to open neither the psx binarys nor the Launcher from the steamversion...
Is there any way I can give you and error log of some sorts?

The newest Version still doesn't work for me... the older one still working. :/

Backgrounds, Backgrounds, Backgrounds ;D

1. I just downloaded the latest version, 0.35, and whenever I choose to open a bin file, I get a message that hadesworkshop.exe has stopped working and it closes. I am on Windows 10 x64.
2. Is it possible to replace the in-game world map used for navigation using Hades Workshop? I mean the map that is shown when you press the [back] (xbox controller) button on the overworld areas.
The in-game map is horrendous. I can barely navigate with it because it is such low quality.

You have to open the FF9_Launcher.exe in Hadesworkshop. ;)

@Tirlititi Is it really 0.35? I can only find 0.34b on the 1st Page.

hey is there any reasons for,the steam version freezes when i click on the stats tab?

I just tried it and it works on my end.
Did you try with version 0.34?

Quick update: I've finished more than 40 Backgrounds with all the filtering and separating the Layers etc... and I got my process really down.
I'll work further on it after Tirlititi finished the import so I can know if this works and/or need tweaks at my end. But I'm very confident that all the filtering really shouldn't take that long. :)

Keep up the fantastic work, Tirlititi. ^^

I've finished ripping all backgrounds into separate folders containing one tiff with all layers.
But something doesn't look right in some backgrounds:

This is taken directly from disc 1 "Burmecia/Palace" the third of them.
The rain really looks broken to me. These instances don't happen as often.

I only saw it on 2-3 images so it's not big a deal but still, something must be done or else those can't be filtered properly all tough I could filter the base image (without the moving broken rain of course ^^

For the time being I wouldn't stress that much about those artifacts.

The export from the PSX is way better. The steam backgrounds were only upscaled using an interpolation filter, which really worsens the filtering I use on them.
My main “struggle” is, that I don't know how you plan to do the reimport. ;)

I can extract either one image with ALL layers intact (even the ones which are moving) and get them filtered nicely and save them as a tiff again so we retain all layers in one image.
Memory wise it would be maybe better to use the extension ORA. It’s very convenient as it saves as one file but if you open it with 7 zip all Layers are saved as a png in a Data subdirectoy.
This is not manageable by Photoshop (although a converter could be used I guess) and it could lead to problems as the layers don’t have names but numbers like 001 – 013.png

Okay here goes the final question:
If I need to rearrange all Layers from the import 1:1 to match the export (also by name?) then I'll start right away. I will rip the backgrounds with all moving tiles (doors, flags etc…) in one image with a bunch of Layers. The problem here is that my Gimp shows the Layers as German names like Seite 1 which is Site 1 in US. This is confusing to me as I used my US/NTSC FFIX to rip the background.
But I don't know if things get too complicated…? ^^

You could also implement the import as a psd. The file format is afair well documented and Gimp can load psd files as well, so the coverage is very good.
If you have anything to mention further, please do so as at the moment this will be a really big task as it is and I don’t want to break anything or in the worst case wasted time on both ends. ^^

Maybe it would be good if we could test one background before so we/I can use that as a basis and get the things off the table which hinders the import.

The images vary in size: ORA has the best with 2.76 MB, Tiff with 4.28 MB opposed to a whopping 6.7 MB PSD.

One question Tirlititi:
Do you think it's possible to find the flag to alter the FPS on the FMV's?
I've several FMV's in beautiful 30 FPS here (interpolated but still it looks in my opinion way better then the 15 FPS >.<) but after switching them out, the engine still forces them to play at 15 FPS.

Well Tile is not exactly like in the RPG Maker, where you have either 16x16 or 32x32 tiles.
When you extract the Backgrounds some movable/animated things like flaggs are tiles, which is memorywise better to use on small objects as in comparison to save the whole scenes 2 or more times, as long as the animation goes.

The shot is from me. ;)

As soon as Tirlititi answers me, I can start rearranging my graphics/filter pipeline and start with the whole thing.

What you're referring to is normal if you work with layers and transparency especially in an old PSone Game.
The export suffers from some weird artifact patterns which is not present in game. Like I said, what you describe is normal transparency issues.

The PSone doesn't have those artefacts:

I don't know how to remove those artifacts in a reasonable manner. We're talking 817 pictures. ^^

On a quick note: On the PSX File you can select which pattern to export. In the above these are the bells for an instance. In this example all bells are layered on top of each other.
I couldn't find such an option on the steam version. Is it missing? ^^

The Steam Pictures seems to be 2x the size of the PSX File.
If I double the size from the PSX backgrounds and apply my filters, they look way better then applying the filters to the Steam background.

Of course this is only a test as I need to adjust the filters.
Would it be possible to export all PSX Files, filter them and use those to insert later on? If yes I would gladly to the whole thing.

Edit 2:
What would be the best way to work on the images so we/you can easily import them later on?
I extracted the PSone Image, scaled it x2 and applied my filter and saved every layer individually. I did this because I think it's crucial later on that the layers from the import match those 1:1 from the export?
If I have the answer I can start right away as I have setup my pipeline the last night.

@ Fraggoso : You can already export the backgrounds, you can't import them back. It won't be ready for the next release but maybe for the one after that (or if someone else does that ; the project is on GitHub !).
But since you can export them already, someone can start reworking them. I didn't see anyone doing that yet.
Also, Aelrobis seems to be making some work about it currently (Export/Import). I don't know whether he'll be able to change the resolution or how his solution will be conflicting with HW though.

I can't seem to find the exporter for it. Can you pinpoint me into any directions (i presumed it's in HW directly but also I can't find it)?

Edit: Found it!

Edit 2:
After exporting a BG I noticed that a lot of alliasing is going on around some objects.

Is there any way around this?

Any news about extracting and inserting the backrounds, Tirlititi?

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