Author Topic: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin  (Read 24451 times)

xLostWingx

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[WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« on: 2011-10-29 03:00:54 »
It may not happen anytime in the near future.  But I am going to make a kernel mod that will create a real job system in FFVII.  Right now I am only in the planning stages of this mod, and many of the details remain to be worked out, but I have a collection of tentative and functional ideas for implementing a job system into VII.  Once I figure out exactly how I am going to design level ups/stat increases, and whether I will restrict materia or not, I will post a more descriptive explanation of this mod.  I would like to restrict materia, but with materia restriction comes a variety of problems, not all of which can be solved.  The alternative is to make utilizing job classes voluntary - - not ideal, but better than making dozens of problems for myself.  Since this is just a kernel mod, you will be able to pair it up with a scene.bin of your choosing, however, this is essentially a side project as I have yet to finish Revisited's scene.  Once it is complete, I imagine it would be the ideal counterpart to this kernel.  The creation of this thread may seem a bit premature, but, as usual, it will be a convenient place for me to post and discuss tentative ideas about the mod.

-Individual materia will be designed for use on one job-class only
-Characters' stats will either increase at a flat rate, or not increase at all (equipment, and possibly sources will "create" your classes and alter your stats)
-It is possible that all characters will be able to equip all weapons (it is the easiest way to make this work, although it may bother some of you if you equip "Fire Rod" on Black Mage Cloud, but in battle he is holding a sword)

The classes that I can justify creating for this mod are (tentatively):
Knight (SOLDIER?)
Black Mage
White Mage
Time Mage (Sorcerer? Necromancer?)
Blue Mage/Beastmaster
Summoner
Samurai
Dragoon
Berserker
Ninja/Thief
Mime

There is a possibility that equipment descriptions and/or materia will have uber-generic names like "Knight 1" "Knight 2" "Knight 3", which wouldn't really bother me, but it might bother others.  I will think about this one some more.

Ideally Ninja and Thief would be seperate, but I don't think that there are enough Thief-skills to support an entire class.  I don't know whether or not to call the Time Mage a Time Mage, because s/he will also command all the status inflicting spells.  With 9 distinct job classes, and a Mime, it works out nicely for the development of equipment since there were already 9 characters.  Mime will be able to equip any equipment, but will only have 'Attack', 'Mime', and 'Item' commands.  I might have to give the Berserker a few Knight and Samurai materia, but I think I can support this class too.  None of the other classes should be problematic.
This is what I know so far.  Updates will be forthcoming.
« Last Edit: 2011-11-02 03:35:23 by xLostWingx »

GF-san

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #1 on: 2011-10-29 10:51:18 »
Dragoon class for spear type weaponry? Like Cid Highwind? Just an' idea!

sen

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #2 on: 2011-10-29 14:25:18 »
this sounds interesting

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #3 on: 2011-10-29 15:02:49 »
have you figured out how to enable stat growth beyond 100?

xLostWingx

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #4 on: 2011-10-29 18:02:21 »
I thought about a Dragoon class, I'm just not sure there are enough Dragoon related abilities in the game.  Maybe Slash-All? Long range? Wind or Holy magic? Bahamut or Alexander Summons? HP/MP Absorb?  Some of those are a stretch, others woud probably be more appropriate on other classes, but maybe an Average-ish Physical character who can attack from the back row and can cast a few spells and a summon or two could be a fun class. 

And I don't know how to increase stat growth past 100, but I don't think I need to.  Between Sources and Equipment, you'll be capable of building your stats high enough.

xLostWingx

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #5 on: 2011-11-01 03:36:10 »
As far as the Dragoon matter goes, I think I will add that class.

I am also going to be adding several class-specific abilities by replacing some of the magic spells.  This way the Dragoon, Knight, Samurai, and Ninja can have som unique abilities.  I just need to decide which abilities I can eliminate.

Poisona
Escape
Remove

Life
Mini
Toad

Bio
Bio2
Bio3
Demi
Demi2
Demi3
Shield

I think the first two sets of abilities are suitable for elimination.  But that is only six skills.  The third set will be a bit more controversial.  Bio and Demi are both staples in most FF games, and they each have their uses in VII.  However, those uses are limited, and I personally barely use these spells.  Even in my mods where I've tried to enhance the usefulness of Bio, I don't feel compelled to use it.  The same goes for Demi.  Maybe I won't have to eliminate shield, but I think it is overpowered, so I have no problem with converting it to something else.

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #6 on: 2011-11-01 05:16:32 »
Just go with entirely original abilities for every class.

xLostWingx

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #7 on: 2011-11-01 06:57:41 »
I have 13 abilities to work with. 

The White Mage needs one or two;
The Berserker will need two or three (I have some good ideas for the Berserker  :evil:);
I might be able to give the Blue Mage one (although I have no idea what it might be);
The Samurai certainly needs at least three;
The Ninja could use one or two;
The Dragoon will need three or four;
And the Knight might be able to use a few.

If I eliminate a few other spells, maybe this will work.  Some materia (Primarily Blue Support Materia and some Purple Independent Materia) will be useable by multiple classes.

Hellbringer616

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #8 on: 2011-11-01 13:44:51 »
This sounds like an awesome mod, I can't wait to see a beta.
I love the class system in FF5 :D

GF-san

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #9 on: 2011-11-01 20:24:49 »
I'm really liking this!!!! And you hit the nail right on it's head. Slash all, long range, counter attack, and wind magic (might be cool to use the ''aero'' magic model skins for some spells) work perfectly for Dragoon (imho of course :)).

Sounds great so far!

Milo Leonhart

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #10 on: 2011-11-01 21:36:50 »
How can you do that ? o_O It's great!!

xLostWingx

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #11 on: 2011-11-01 23:56:39 »
Look for some detailed class descriptions and ability lists later tonite.  I have about half of this mod planned out in my head, and I have most of the hard parts thought out.  I should have a chance to provide an update later tonite.  If not, look for it tomorrow.  I'm excited to see lots of interest in this project and will do my best to start working on it sometime soon.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

EDIT:  Characters will develop in a non-specific way.  By this I mean, that Cloud's stats at a given level will look very similar to Aeris's stats at the same level; the same goes for all other characters.  I will probably make characters' HP/MP vary a little bit; that way White Mage Aeris won't be exactly the same as White Mage Vincent or White Mage Barret.  Limit breaks will also allow for some differences between characters - As of this moment, I don't plan to alter any Limit Breaks, but that may change.

All Weapons will be equipable by all characters.  However, the compatible job classes will be listed in the Weapon's description.  As far as naming these weapons goes, I don't know what I am going to do.  Obviously, just because I call something a 'Healing Rod' doesn't mean that when Cloud equips it, he will be holding a rod instead of a sword.  I welcome any feasible solutions for this problem.  If every weapon had a unique name like 'Heaven's Cloud' and 'Death Penality', that could work...it will test my creativity though.  Armor and Accessory descriptions will also show which job classes are permitted to equip them.  Materia descriptions will do the same. 

Each character will start out as a specific class, but you're not obligated to keep them that way.  I think this will allow classes (and therefore job equipment and materia) to be introduced at a steady rate without mashing everything into the first few hours of the game.  There are more classes than characters though...so maybe I'll make the extra available early in the game, or somewhere between Kalm and Nibelheim.  It will probably be the Berserker...although it could be Summoner.  Obviously Mime will only be available after you get the Mime materia.

Starting Classes:

Cloud > Knight (SOLDIER)
Barret > Black Mage
Tifa > Samurai
Aeris > White Mage
Red > Summoner or Berserker
Yuffie > Ninja/Thief
Cait Sith > Blue Mage
Vincent > Time Mage
Cid > Dragoon

Rank Order of Classes by Stat:

Strength:  Berserker > Knight > Samurai > Dragoon > Blue Mage > Ninja > Time Mage > White Mage > Black Mage > Summoner
Vitality:  Knight > Samurai > Dragoon > Berserker > Blue Mage > White Mage > Ninja > Time Mage > Black Mage > Summoner
Magic:  Black Mage > Summoner > White Mage > Time Mage > Blue Mage > Dragoon > Samurai > Ninja > Knight > Berserker
Spirit:  Summoner > Black Mage > White Mage > Dragoon > Time Mage > Blue Mage > Samurai > Ninja > Knight > Berserker
Dexterity:  Ninja > Time Mage > Berserker > Samurai > Dragoon > Blue Mage > White Mage > Knight > Black Mage > Summoner
Luck:  Ninja > Samurai > Blue Mage > Time Mage > Knight > Berserker > Dragoon > White Mage > Summoner > Black Mage

The Mime can equip any equipment, but can only equip universal materia and the Mime materia.
Stats will be determined by Materia Effects, Weapons, Armor, and Accessories equippable by each class.
« Last Edit: 2011-11-02 05:17:19 by xLostWingx »

xLostWingx

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #12 on: 2011-11-03 07:07:31 »
Problem.  I have 26 new skills to intoduce, but only about 14-20 spells that can be eliminated.  I really don't want to have to get rid of spells like...well I don't know what else I can get rid of.  So...the choice becomes, take away from the magical classes for the benefit of the physical classes, or limit the physical classes in order to maintain magical classes' integrity.  The White mage is already suffering as it is, while the Blue Mage sits on a pile of skills.  There is nothing to do to the summoner, except to alter summons.  I will figure it out, but this delays the ability lists I was going to post. 
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heh...I have reduced it to 23 new abilities and expanded disposable spells up to 22.  1 more........man...what to get rid of?????
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok...I've narrowed it down to two skills.  A Samurai skill that inflicts Physical Damage, Confusion, and Silence...........OR...........a Time Mage skill that inflicts Sleep and Confusion.  I think I'll get rid of the Time Mage spell.  There...

22 New skills.

Tomorrow I will post each class's abilities and compatible materia.  When I first started seperating abilities and materia, the magical classes were far superior to the physical classes.  Now the physical classes have a slight edge, but it will disappear once you have a high level, disc 3 party.  Physical classes Limit Breaks will be their best method of causing damage, so it would be unwise to make Aeris, Red, or Cait Sith a Knight, Samurai, or Berserker.  Magical classes' best method of causing damage will be with a W-xxxx and Quadra Magic combination.  Although technically Quad Mag will work with the physical characters abilities.  I'll have to think about it.
« Last Edit: 2011-11-03 07:58:56 by xLostWingx »

Izban

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #13 on: 2011-11-04 06:25:37 »
this is sounding interesting.

looking forward to the first build just a quick question though will the dragoon have jump and how exactly will you impliment it if he does

Dark_Ansem

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #14 on: 2011-11-04 07:27:23 »
more than that, he'd implement the "lancet" skill with much more ease, unless LW also wants it to capture enemy skills.

xLostWingx

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #15 on: 2011-11-04 15:47:51 »
Unfortunately the Dragoon isn't gonna have Jump.  It sucks, but there is nothing I can do.  If you simply can't live without a Jumping Dragoon, then I'd suggest making Cid your dragoon so that you can use his limit breaks, which include Boost Jump. 

==================================================

EDIT:

Code: [Select]
Black Mage Abilities:  Fire, Ice, Bolt, Fire2, Ice2, Bolt2, Fire, Ice3, Bolt 3, Drain, Freeze,
Break, Tornado, Flare, Ultima, (Kjata?)

White Mage Abilities:  Cure, Esuna, Barrier, Mbarrier, Life, Holy Ray, Regen, Cure 3, Drain, Wall,
Death, Full Cure, Holy Flash, (Phoenix?)

Time Mage Abilities:  Sleepel, Silence, Confu, Berserk, Haste, Slow, Drain, Comet,
Mad Frog, Death, Bioshock, Silentshrink, Comet2, (Hades?)

Summoner Abilities:  Choco/Mog, Shiva, Ifrit, Rumah, Titan, Odin, Leviathan, Bahamut,
Kjata, Alexander, Phoenix, Neo Bahamut, Typhoon, Hades, Bahamut Zero, Knights of Round

Blue Mage Abilities:  Enemy Skills (many yet to be determined)

Samurai Abilities: Bioshock, Earthenbonds, Deadly Slumber, Silent Riddle, Confu, (Titan?)

Dragoon Abilities: Reis’s Wind, Lancer, Dragon Force, Dragon’s Gale, Mbarrier, (Bahamut?)

Ninja Abilities: Tsunami, Tropic Wind, Lucky Strike, Fire2?, (Ifrit?), (Leviathan?)

Berserker Abilities: Mad Rush, Explode, Last Stand, Berserk

Knight Abilities: Ice Punch, Thunderslash, Stock Breath, Barrier

==========================================================

Universal Materia: 
Spirit Plus, HP Plus, Speed Plus, Magic Plus, Luck Plus, Chocobo Lure, Mega-All, Underwater,
HP<=>MP, Long Range, Sense, W-Magic, W-Summon, W-Item, All, Magic Counter, Elemental,
Quadra Magic?

EXP Plus:  Blue Mage
Gil Plus:  Samurai
Enemy Away:  Blue Mage
Enemy Lure:  Berserker, Knight
Pre-Emptive:  Ninja
Counter Attack:  Samurai, Dragoon, Ninja, Berserker, Knight
Cover:  Knight, Berserker, Samurai
Counter:  Samurai, Dragoon, Ninja, Berserker, Knight
MP Turbo:  Black Mage, White Mage, Time Mage, Summoner
Booster:  Samurai, Dragoon, Ninja, Berserker, Knight
MP Absorb:  Black Mage, White Mage, Time Mage, Summoner, Dragoon
HP Absorb:  White Mage, Dragoon, Knight
Added Effect:  Time Mage, Samurai
Sneak Attack:  Ninja, Berserker
Final Attack:  Samurai, Dragoon, White Mage
Added Cut:  Samurai, Ninja, Dragoon, Berserker, Knight
Steal as Well:  Ninja
Morph:  Blue Mage
Deathblow:  Knight, Berserker
Manipulate:  Blue Mage
Mime:  Mime
Enemy Skill:  Blue Mage
2x-Cut:  Samurai, Dragoon, Ninja, Berserker, Knight
4x-Cut:  Samurai, Dragoon, Ninja, Berserker, Knight
Throw:  Ninja
Coin:  Samurai
Steal:  Ninja
Mug:  Ninja
Slash-All:  Samurai, Dragoon, Ninja, Berserker, Knight
Flash:  Samurai, Dragoon, Ninja, Berserker, Knight

Of course this isn't set in stone.  I was trying to keep classes as pure as I could, but I soon found that given the number of abilities that I sacrificed, some classes were at significant disadvantages.  So, I had to open up some materia and abilities to more classes than I originally intended.  I can justify allowing all classes to use Quadra, W-, and 4x, since these will all appear near the end of the game, and every character needs to be able to have a way to cause at least 9999 damage.  The Blue Mage might not have this option, but has the advantage of a wide variety of skills, most of which are stronger than average for the part of the game you will get them at.  You may notice that the Berserker has some abilities.  How will he be able to use them?  I'll save that for when I start designing the equipment.  Also, I am toying with the idea of allowing certain other classes access to a summon or two.  Not sure if the benefit outweighs the harm. 
« Last Edit: 2011-11-04 17:57:48 by xLostWingx »

Izban

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #16 on: 2011-11-05 06:24:01 »
if your using wall market could you not use the Ai editor to create a jump skill with a dummy skill to call it, other skills could also be used this way but however they would require fair knowledge of the Ai component of wall Market

just ideaing but you could also probely do some trickey Ai stuff to edit peoples stats in combat based of equiped materia, seeing as both ruby and emerald use equiped materia to edit specific attacks damage value

Milo Leonhart

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #17 on: 2011-11-05 07:40:49 »
We could create a "Aura" like materia who put the statut Fury without missing % penalty no ?

EX: Materia "Mystify" in "Aura" and change his skill "Confuse " to "Overdrive" who add the statut [Fury] and [Haste] and deleted the Berserk Magic... I think it can be interesting to have this materia later in the game in Hardcore Mod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA4A8SgpOzs
« Last Edit: 2011-11-05 11:16:36 by Milo Leonhart »

xLostWingx

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #18 on: 2011-11-05 19:31:05 »
if your using wall market could you not use the Ai editor to create a jump skill with a dummy skill to call it, other skills could also be used this way but however they would require fair knowledge of the Ai component of wall Market

just ideaing but you could also probely do some trickey Ai stuff to edit peoples stats in combat based of equiped materia, seeing as both ruby and emerald use equiped materia to edit specific attacks damage value

I can do some of that without messing with AI.  But I don't really want to mess with AI if I don't have to.  I think the Dragoon, although unorthodox, will be a fine class without a Jump ability.

We could create a "Aura" like materia who put the statut Fury without missing % penalty no ?

EX: Materia "Mystify" in "Aura" and change his skill "Confuse " to "Overdrive" who add the statut [Fury] and [Haste] and deleted the Berserk Magic... I think it can be interesting to have this materia later in the game in Hardcore Mod

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA4A8SgpOzs

I can probably do that, and I kind of like the idea.  I might be able to fit this in somewhere though.

Hellbringer616

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #19 on: 2011-11-13 19:59:14 »
Guessing no new updates since you haven't posted, i just want to let you know, i am still very interested in your project.

sl1982

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #20 on: 2011-11-14 01:32:10 »
Just a fyi, if you really wanted you could make a custom animation using kimera for a jump command. Unfortunately you would then have to tie dragoon to a specific character.

Izban

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #21 on: 2011-11-14 08:23:25 »
Just a fyi, if you really wanted you could make a custom animation using kimera for a jump command. Unfortunately you would then have to tie dragoon to a specific character.

that would be perty sweet and if you were to use AI script it would also be multi character only then you would have to make animations for all characters

sl1982

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #22 on: 2011-11-14 10:52:31 »
If you did that you would have to replace an animation for all characters. Perhaps the flash attack would work.

xLostWingx

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #23 on: 2011-11-14 19:28:45 »
No updates other than I have most of the planning done on paper.

Thanks for the information sl1982 and izban.  I'll make a note.  I'd prefer to keep this project from growing beyond my capabilities though.  Glad to see some interest.  Will get to work next time the VII urge kicks in.

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Re: [WIP] FFVII Job Class Kernel.bin
« Reply #24 on: 2011-11-15 03:44:48 »
If you are making classes, and Aerith is your White Mage, you are going to be hosed halfway though the game.

Also the classes go you may need to double-up on the classes

Also Tifa is supposed to be a monk.
« Last Edit: 2011-11-15 03:52:08 by halkun »