Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)  (Read 1732323 times)

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #100 on: 2014-07-05 00:34:13 »
Cheers, bud. If you run into any problems or have ideas for ways to improve the mod then let me know. There's an update due up tonight or tomorrow which makes a few tweaks to the mod; they're optional, but should improve things later on in the game (it's mostly tweaks for the Icicle Area and onwards, with a few enemies like the Midgar Zolom also getting a retune).

atro city

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #101 on: 2014-07-05 01:15:19 »
I read the readme file and didn't see any mention of this, so I thought I'd ask. Since back row and sadness are arguably broken, can the properties of those be changed to nerf them, or is that outside the realm of what is possible via modding? (I also have the same question about barriers, Dragon Force, and other methods of damage reduction)

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #102 on: 2014-07-05 09:06:14 »
It's possible to do most of these things with and without 'hard editing' of the game's .exe, but a successful hex edit would presumably allow you to set the actual damage reduction of each thing and/or the behavior of certain commands and statuses.

-) Back Row: There's a formation setting that disables the 'Change' command, and presumably disables your Row too. It's used in the Pagoda for Yuffie's fights and in the Final Battle. No idea if it's stable or not.

-) Sadness: If this was removed from all enemy attacks and the Tranquilizer item then Sadness would be effectively 'dummied out' of the game and only available either by loading a pre-existing save game where a character had the status or through save-editing. It might be possible to add character pre-battle AI to remove the status to prevent this.

-) Barrier/MBarrier: I think editing to the .exe is the only way to alter these, maybe changing the damage reduction they provide or the speed with which they deteriorate. Wall and Big Guard could be removed to reduce their utility maybe but W-Magic and W-Item get around that. You could perhaps set these spells/Materia to not be compatible with All. It made a surprisingly big difference in the Hardcore mod when Big Guard only affected one person instead of everyone.

-) Dragon Force: The effect of this spell can be altered easily using Wall Market, either reducing the stat% gain it gives or changing the effect completely. Same thing goes with Hero Drinks.

-) Defend: Now I've never tried this, but I'm assuming you can change this in Wall Market again. You could set it to have the same effect as 'Attack' and change it's name, that way you have the option to attack even if the Limit Break bar pops up or maybe even if you have Slash-All, Mega-All, or Double Cut equipped (assuming they only affect the normal Attack command). Haven't tried actually doing any of this though.

-) Materia: A lot of Materia can have their levels reduced, which blocks off either the more potent effects (like Wall) or limits their effective use (like Final Attack).

Thing is, I wouldn't implement any of these for this mod (except Final Attack, I reduced it's max level to 2) because they're part of the mechanics and I didn't want to dictate to the player how they should play the game. You should be able to swing by without going full out with Sadness, etc. but it's there if you need it. This isn't a hard mod in the strictest sense, just something to have fun with. I'm planning to make a ridiculously unfair version of this mod in the future though, probably when I learn how to edit the .exe and the weather isn't so sunny and cheery.

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #103 on: 2014-07-05 13:08:30 »
Battle Square :
- Some handicaps only apply to the last character like magic materia or hp/mp.
- In the second battle, against a Zu like enemy (Tonadu), i think there is infinite loop on one of his action. He do nothing and my characters waits for his attack.
- Only the last character is healed at the end.

I managed to beat Gil turtle, with some luck I guess, he kept on pondering life.

Ancient Forest :
- it seems like another enemy ID is not correct, the battle crashed at the beginning (it is not Orchidea, Epiolnis or Calamentra).
« Last Edit: 2014-07-05 13:36:50 by FFman »

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #104 on: 2014-07-05 14:14:37 »
I'll get those sorted, but I think the Battle Square handicap thing is beyond me. By the way, was it regular battle you had a party of three or special battle? I set it up so that the Special would use three while the regular uses one.

The other two things I can fix though. I'm wondering if it's Ho-chu or Diablos; I'll know when I have a look at it, I guess. Patches will be up, along with the other slight tweaks and changes I'm making, within the hour.

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #105 on: 2014-07-05 14:40:48 »
Great, thanks to your reactivity.

I have a party of three for the regular battles.

Is there another way to have batteries ? Because I used the one I'd got during the climb to the shinra building (I still got one) and I'm asked 3 to create a monster for the Extra Battle.

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #106 on: 2014-07-05 14:48:27 »
Thanks for that; it gave me one character for the regular battle square during testing but there must be a loophole somewhere. I'll try something else.

The Armored Golem in the North Cave (left-down path) should drop batteries, decent chance but not guaranteed. It's something like 60%.

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #107 on: 2014-07-05 19:00:51 »
I'll check on the armored golem after doing the lv. 4/ultimate weapon quest.

In the Highwind, :
- Devil's Gate fight leads to a fight with 3 guys with a shield.
- There is a spell mistake at the end of the battle against Jenova Decay (Beacause).

I really like the passage into Midgar with Cloud raging at the sense materia etc..

The battle for Cloud lv4 is tough hopefully I had dragon force.
Couldn't find the new threat in Forgotten City, I searched every house, the place where Aeris 'died' etc.. I got her in my team.
« Last Edit: 2014-07-05 19:56:02 by FFman »

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #108 on: 2014-07-05 20:21:18 »
I must have punched in the wrong number for Devil Gate; I'll fix that up in the next update. I better double-check the variable trigger for Aeris' Lv.4 though; most likely thing I can think of is that the old trigger is still being used there (which would have slipped by testing because I used a v1.0.5 save file to test the Lv.4 bosses). A new variable trigger will sort that out and it'll be fine with existing save files too.

I couldn't think of a good replacement for W-Item there and I knew people would go all the way down there looking for it, so I figured I may as well have some fun with it :-D

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #109 on: 2014-07-05 20:47:13 »
Ok, i'll wait the trigger for Aeris Lv.4 :)

I got trolled at the end of Ancient Forest, there is a saved point with strange text that crash the game.

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #110 on: 2014-07-05 20:58:08 »
That's a bad one, right at the end of the area too. That save point used to be for a boss fight but there's no fight there now (so I'll probably just remove it); thanks for letting me know.

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #111 on: 2014-07-06 15:07:12 »
You did a great job with the Lv.4 limit bosses. Expecially Caith Sith's.

I managed to do Vincent's at CD2. I don't know if it is intended.
There is no hint for Cid's quest. Couldn't find anything in Rocket town.
Tifa's quest has a problem, when I use the button she says it's broken, nothing happen and I can't move afterward nor use the menu.

How many Mysterious prize there is at the battle square ? So far I had 3 different.
How to get the special battle ?

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #112 on: 2014-07-06 16:32:01 »
Thanks, bud. Glad they've worked out...most of them, anyway.

So for Cid's quest, he heads for Midgar and fixes the automated shop with the turret (there was originally a scene here where having Cloud, Tifa, and Cid would trigger this scene when examining the console; I adjusted this scene slightly and it now only requires Cid as party leader). Tifa's quest is in Nibelheim and is triggered when she plays the piano successfully. But it sounds like you've went to the Turret Shop with Tifa instead; is that the case? If so, it seems like the old scene is interfering or conditions to handle another party leader examining the console weren't added. I'll get it fixed up in any case.

There are four mystery sets: Edgar's Item Set, Shadow's Throwing Set, Guy's Source Set, and Dio's Special Set. The Source set is probably the most valuable.

The Special Battle should work to the original trigger of having Omnislash learned and W-Summon Materia in your possession. I'll double-check the trigger in case either of these are actually tripped by a variable rather than an inventory check and fix it up. Actually I might change it to require all character's Lv.4 Limit Breaks being learned (which would require that all the sidequest bosses have been beaten). I'll have it updated by tonight, along with any other bugs and suggestions reported in the meantime.

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #113 on: 2014-07-06 16:38:15 »
So for Cid's quest, he heads for Midgar and fixes the automated shop with the turret (there was originally a scene here where having Cloud, Tifa, and Cid would trigger this scene when examining the console; I adjusted this scene slightly and it now only requires Cid as party leader). Tifa's quest is in Nibelheim and is triggered when she plays the piano successfully. But it sounds like you've went to the Turret Shop with Tifa instead; is that the case? If so, it seems like the old scene is interfering or conditions to handle another party leader examining the console weren't added. I'll get it fixed up in any case.

That's right, I went to the Turret Shop with Tifa. I'll try it with Cid.

The Special Battle should work to the original trigger of having Omnislash learned and W-Summon Materia in your possession. I'll double-check the trigger in case either of these are actually tripped by a variable rather than an inventory check and fix it up. Actually I might change it to require all character's Lv.4 Limit Breaks being learned (which would require that all the sidequest bosses have been beaten).

Ok, I don't have W-summon yet, that's why.
I'm not fan of having all Lv.4 Limit being learned, that means I'll have to farm them for each character which can be boring  :P.

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #114 on: 2014-07-06 17:31:33 »
Ah, that's a good point (I'm the same, I usually finish games without Lv.3 learned). I'll maybe keep the trigger as it is then.

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #115 on: 2014-07-06 18:11:44 »
It's way better with Cid for the Turret Shop.

I have now all the Lv.4 limit/ultimate weapon but I have only 8 Oversoul Shard. Is it normal ?

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #116 on: 2014-07-06 19:48:56 »
There should be 9, and checking the drops they're all in place. If you have all 9 Ult/Lv.4 limits then the only drop I can think of that might have went wrong is Tifa's boss; can you remember if that one gave any EXP/AP?

The shards are technically missable in any case if the player doesn't take them on the rewards screen; so what I'll do is add a drop to one of the random enemies somewhere so they can be obtained that way. If you opt to save-edit the missing shard into your inventory, then it's the Tissue item you're looking for (the mod's kernel renames this item but it'll appear as 'Tissue' in Black Chocobo).

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #117 on: 2014-07-06 20:08:04 »
I get the one from Tifa's boss. It may be Vincent's because I did it in CD2.
I'll edit the missing shard. Thanks for information.

Tenko Kuugen

  • Public Enemy
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 1427
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #118 on: 2014-07-06 21:27:33 »
The Special Battle should work to the original trigger of having Omnislash learned and W-Summon Materia in your possession. I'll double-check the trigger in case either of these are actually tripped by a variable rather than an inventory check and fix it up. Actually I might change it to require all character's Lv.4 Limit Breaks being learned (which would require that all the sidequest bosses have been beaten). I'll have it updated by tonight, along with any other bugs and suggestions reported in the meantime.

What variable do you use to check against Limits? I don't remember if the game actually checks against having W-summon and having /bought/ Omnislash (not learned it) or if it actually has a variable to check Cloud's limits. But even if it does, does it have variables to check the limits of all the characters?

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #119 on: 2014-07-06 22:35:01 »
Not sure, I haven't tried it yet. I still have the default check in there; I'll have a look at it just now.

Edit: Alright, here's what I think it does (you were right, it seems like; it doesn't directly check for limits). It checks for if you bought Omnislash (bit 5 set to 1 in var 3-[79], and it's bit 6 for W-Summon) and then checks your inventory for an Omnislash book. If you don't have the book in the inventory, and it has it on record that you bought it, then it assumes you have learned Omnislash because you can't sell the thing and I'm assuming it can't be stolen by an enemy either. So it's a work-around rather than a direct check.

If you bought Omnislash and got rid of it somehow without using it, the teller would act as if you've learned Omnislash. If you got Omnislash from Safer, then it wouldn't count; in fact, I don't think you'd be able to unlock Special Battle at all (unless you can just use the book anyway). Could be wrong about all this, but that's what it looks like. I can't think of another reason why it would check to see if you had 0 Omnislash books in your inventory before unlocking Special Battle.

I guess in my case I'd have the game check against every variable I set up to deactivate the 9 sidequests. Bigger priority is locating the cause of having three party members in the regular battle though so I might leave it as is for now. But I better track down this missing shard; I thought it'd be Tifa's boss because it has multiple parts and only one gives the exp/ap & item.
« Last Edit: 2014-07-06 22:52:21 by Sega Chief »

Tenko Kuugen

  • Public Enemy
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 1427
  • Karma: 0
    • View Profile
    • Twitter
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #120 on: 2014-07-07 06:53:01 »
I think you're overthinking this.
If you want to check against everyone having the limit learned, use a variable and do layered checks on each bit of the variable. It's easy to include a [set bit to 1] on any given variable after a limit sidequest boss has been beaten. If you want to make absolutely sure, just check against inventory, too.

If you're worried about the shards, just move them from battle drops to the field, that way people can't not pick them up. Award them after the won fight. Should be a trivial change.

As for multi-fight battles, only the last enemy actually gives exp/ap/drops iirc. This would be easy to check with Hojos battle.

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #121 on: 2014-07-07 07:59:43 »
I guess in my case I'd have the game check against every variable I set up to deactivate the 9 sidequests. Bigger priority is locating the cause of having three party members in the regular battle though so I might leave it as is for now. But I better track down this missing shard; I thought it'd be Tifa's boss because it has multiple parts and only one gives the exp/ap & item.

It is not Tifa or Cid, sorry I can't remember the others.

I don't know where to get some items needed for Extra Battle :
- Dragon scale
- Bird wing
- Protect ring

Can you help me find them ?

I beat Emerald weapon and went to the Kalm traveler. I only learned Big Guard. Did I miss other enemy skill ?

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #122 on: 2014-07-07 11:48:53 »
I think you're overthinking this.
If you want to check against everyone having the limit learned, use a variable and do layered checks on each bit of the variable. It's easy to include a [set bit to 1] on any given variable after a limit sidequest boss has been beaten. If you want to make absolutely sure, just check against inventory, too.

If you're worried about the shards, just move them from battle drops to the field, that way people can't not pick them up. Award them after the won fight. Should be a trivial change.

As for multi-fight battles, only the last enemy actually gives exp/ap/drops iirc. This would be easy to check with Hojos battle.

That's what each sidequest does, it sets a bit to 1 on a variable. I added all nine to the special battle check and it seems to be working. There aren't any multi-fight bosses that I can remember, the only one that could have caused it was Tifa's boss because it's a Yin-Yang (and they disable their AI/Scripts on death so was worried it was only the torso that gave the rewards) but that one seems to be okay. I'll just move the shards to the field screen to be on the safe side.

I don't know where to get some items needed for Extra Battle :
- Dragon scale
- Bird wing
- Protect ring

I beat Emerald weapon and went to the Kalm traveler. I only learned Big Guard. Did I miss other enemy skill ?

Off the top of my head, Tonadu should have the Bird Wing (Zuu might drop it too); I think he appears on the beaches of the Temple area. Dragon Scale is carried by Serpent on the Gelnika, I think he appears in the back room of the Gelnika where Hades was. As for the Protect Ring, it looks like it's slipped the net; Guardian in the Underwater Reactor drops it but that area can't be returned to and Movers can be Morphed into it but that pushes the Extra Battle boss past all three Kalm bosses + the two Weapons. I'll swap the Mover's item drop with it's Morph item before I upload these new patches.

As for Enemy Skills, this is what you can learn:
-) Earth Harp: Big Guard
-) Desert Rose: Pandora's Box (ignores defence)
-) Guidebook: Dragon Force

For Dragon Force, the enemy will use it on each (alive) character when it dies, unless it uses it's very rare limit break.

FFman

  • Fast newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 46
  • Karma: 1
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #123 on: 2014-07-07 12:23:06 »
Thanks, I may had back luck then because I defeated Tonadu, Zuu and Serpent many times and none of them drop the item.
Actually, it was the same for Armored Golem, I had to defeat 30ich of them before getting 1 battery.

Dragon force is learnable by the Black Dragon in North Crater.

To get the guidebook you need Morph but, from what I understood, you get Morph after getting the 3 items to Kalm. How do you got guidebook then ?

Too bad Pandora's Box is the reward for beating Ruby because I need it to defeat her :P Doing 233 damage with Bahamut Zero does not help. I'll use the 7 fever  ;D
« Last Edit: 2014-07-07 12:35:57 by FFman »

Sega Chief

  • Moderator
  • No life
  • *
  • Posts: 3001
  • Karma: 177
  • These guys is sick
    • View Profile
Re: [REL/FF7] New Threat Mod v1.1
« Reply #124 on: 2014-07-07 14:01:01 »
May have overlooked the Guidebook thing. I'd better get that changed pronto  :-[

Shadow Flare also ignores defence but it'll be a chore to use that repeatedly. I'll get something sorted for Ruby, probably just reduce his defence. Of course, 7777 fever is fun too (Is Ruby a 'her'? I never would have guessed).

The drop rates sound strange though. Tonadu's drop rate should be 100%. I'll boost up the drop rates of the other items so they're not as grindy to get, sorry for putting you through 30 Armored Golems; I thought they'd drop every three or so battles.