Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)  (Read 1868025 times)

ProtomanZxAdvent

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #825 on: 2015-03-09 03:39:39 »
might i suggest that if you can make a separate download for the new models that are required for this mod instead of automatically adding them to a full lgp file thus allowing the user to put them in the direct folder or having them apply the new models to there lgp file manually using luskys or krammers lgp program.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #826 on: 2015-03-09 05:40:27 »
Good idea, I'll get that together.

Edit: https://mega.co.nz/#!mhlS3ZRC!IbY3zHSpDp5CHYKwEdxyjEYD5sKLPYt3vLUAZlQbRHw

Let me know if that's what you're after; those two folders should contain only the battle and field models that are altered for NT and nothing else.
« Last Edit: 2015-03-09 05:51:55 by Sega Chief »

levantine

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #827 on: 2015-03-09 20:08:07 »
Hi, i'm actually playing to the nt 1.2 (because no iro for the 1.3 in the 7th heaven's catalog yet :/ )
I am at the wutai's quest, and i just wanted to know because of playing 1.2 what i have missed and what i will miss (speak about fights, or items, materias...) that are in the 1.3 and aren't in 1.2?
Oh and i wanted to know is there any crash if i keep aerith in my team in disc 2 and 3 or all would be okay with her?
Thx for answer :)

ProtomanZxAdvent

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #828 on: 2015-03-09 21:59:35 »
yes these are what i needed

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #829 on: 2015-03-09 23:10:02 »
Hi, i'm actually playing to the nt 1.2 (because no iro for the 1.3 in the 7th heaven's catalog yet :/ )
I am at the wutai's quest, and i just wanted to know because of playing 1.2 what i have missed and what i will miss (speak about fights, or items, materias...) that are in the 1.3 and aren't in 1.2?
Oh and i wanted to know is there any crash if i keep aerith in my team in disc 2 and 3 or all would be okay with her?
Thx for answer :)

There aren't huge differences between 1.2 and 1.3, but there are a few:
-) Ultimate Weapons won't be available (acquired on Disc 3, unmissable)
-) Item drop/steals/Morphs are different; nothing's missable, but they were much better organised for 1.3
-) The dark cave sidequest, accessed on Disc 3, doesn't exist on 1.2 (can't be missed and will be accessible when updating to 1.3)
-) Extra Battle and Materia Cave bosses were swapped around a little and some were heavily tweaked to make the fights better
-) An early level cap of 40 may exist in the 1.2 version you have, which coupled with paltry EXP rewards may make it difficult to reach Lv.60 and onwards. The EXP arc will also be a little buggy going past Lv.61 and will start to jump up by 5 levels in places.
-) Equipment stats, etc. are different and not as focused on certain stats in 1.2; they're a bit all over the place and make it tricky to make dedicated builds for each character early on in the game.
-) Certain new Enemy Skills might not be available. Angel Whisper and Roulette were changed so that they had a more unique function (Angel Whisper was too similar to Full Cure and Life2, while Roulette was pretty much trash compared to the other instant death options like Remove).

Also, Aeris is fully functional for Disc 2 & 3; I added in all the field code, etc. required to make it work. I tweaked dialogue in one or two places as well to cover this, but it basically reads the same. One scene is very slightly different, from Bugenhagen's observatory, but again it's functionally identical to the original.

levantine

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #830 on: 2015-03-10 07:24:25 »
Thx for your answer, is there any text file that speak about materia location, morph and steal's monsters?
Hope the catalog will be updating fast for updating my game in 1.3 and i see differences that you list
Anyway, i take a lot of pleasure with your mod , i will speak about my experience when i have the chance of playing to the 1.3 :)

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #831 on: 2015-03-10 13:31:40 »
There is a database, but it's for an unreleased version of 1.3; I haven't updated the files yet: https://mega.co.nz/#!D0FUWZLL!jv_ZZ_W30-x3XmNls83MJAp2ySSOuDzMp206aG8KOZ4

Materia locations should be the same, but the items, etc. will be different in 1.2.

levantine

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #832 on: 2015-03-10 17:47:20 »
Thx will look at this, in the hope that 1.3 will coming fast in the 7th catalog :)
I played different ff7 mod, no doubt that in my opinion nt is the best one :)

levantine

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #833 on: 2015-03-10 18:17:25 »
There is no counter attack materia ?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #834 on: 2015-03-10 22:37:13 »
There is, did I forget to add it to the database? I'll double-check it now. Counter-Attack is now available only from Chocobo Racing either as an A-Rank prize or from that big prize you get for winning 15 S-Rank races.

Proxy

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #835 on: 2015-03-10 23:36:55 »
So, loving the changes so far, and figured I'd throw out some thoughts.  (I just got to Cosmo Canyon)

Full disclosure, I did not read all the preceding pages.  There were too many.  So there is a chance some of what I'm about to mention is already known.  Anyway...

1. The text that appears during fights when someone speaks goes by way too fast.  If I am not expecting it I don't get a chance to read it.  For example, I recently defeated a boxer enemy, and I have no idea what happened at the end of that fight, but someone said something.  I wonder if this is something on my end, because this is a very noticeable issue.

2. The fight with Reno and Rude where a unit is paralyzed was strange.  I tried to use remedy on the paralyzed unit and also tried to attack him to break it.  I don't remember what happened with the remedy, but attacking caused my ordered unit to attack reno instead.  I'm guessing I'm allowed to target him for the action, but not actually allowed to perform the action on him.  If this is the case, it might be less confusing to simply have the unit removed from battle completely, like the Zolom's tail whip.

3. Dyne did not attack me after his first attack.  A message kept popping up saying "MP depleted" or something to that effect.

4.  Most accessories are borderline useless.  This was also true in vanilla FF7.  Immune to sleep/darkness/whatever?  Those situations are so specific that they won't help unless you already lost because of that ailment and are retrying the fight.  Additionally, those effects can already be accomplished via materia + added effect (I would assume, I never used it, because as previously mentioned, useless).

5.  This is my personal gripe but: stat modifiers on materia.  Without modifiers, characters have some (not much) variation between each other stat-wise.  Barret is not as competent as Aeris at magic, but is still useable for casting if you need him (especially for spells which are infrequently cast or don't care about the magic stat).  He compensates with higher HP and attack.  With the modifiers on, putting materia on Barret will turn him into Aeris stat-wise, removing what little differentiation there was between them.  Off the top of my head I can't think of any negative consequences for taking these modifiers out.  Do you have any reason for keeping them in?

cicadian

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #836 on: 2015-03-11 04:07:56 »
as a fellow fan i want to reply to this post real quick to say that the accessories with status immunities are sometimes make or break for fights if you're a filthy casual like me, for instance today i did the gelnika reno/rude fight and the other day JENOVA-WAR and i absolutely had to use a peace ring and addedeffect-mystify combo to beat it. A lot of the misc status/elemental accessories also add stats now to make them competitive with throwing a champion belt on everyone

also some input for the materia gripes, the modifiers exist as a way to make magic casters even more powerful and round out or even give utility to tanky characters at a HP sacrifice, a lot of encounters now open with some pretty powerful attacks further emphasizing the need for preventative measures over damage output. i regularly run with a physical attacker and a multipurpose caster and offensive caster, sometimes even utilizing HP-MP, dont forget that in late game you can attain quite a few +1 STR materia to balance or even swing the other way. if any changes to materia should be made there should be -HP +Dex or -MP +SPI etc but this starts to get ridiculously messy when you make utility casters and their stats are all over the place, not to mention armor has stats on it now too!

ps when you get to the end of temple of the ancients i think you'll understand why the balance changes are the way they are, also make sure you keep destruct materia on someone at all times ;)

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #837 on: 2015-03-11 06:09:54 »
So, loving the changes so far, and figured I'd throw out some thoughts.  (I just got to Cosmo Canyon)

Full disclosure, I did not read all the preceding pages.  There were too many.  So there is a chance some of what I'm about to mention is already known.  Anyway...

1. The text that appears during fights when someone speaks goes by way too fast.  If I am not expecting it I don't get a chance to read it.  For example, I recently defeated a boxer enemy, and I have no idea what happened at the end of that fight, but someone said something.  I wonder if this is something on my end, because this is a very noticeable issue.

2. The fight with Reno and Rude where a unit is paralyzed was strange.  I tried to use remedy on the paralyzed unit and also tried to attack him to break it.  I don't remember what happened with the remedy, but attacking caused my ordered unit to attack reno instead.  I'm guessing I'm allowed to target him for the action, but not actually allowed to perform the action on him.  If this is the case, it might be less confusing to simply have the unit removed from battle completely, like the Zolom's tail whip.

3. Dyne did not attack me after his first attack.  A message kept popping up saying "MP depleted" or something to that effect.

4.  Most accessories are borderline useless.  This was also true in vanilla FF7.  Immune to sleep/darkness/whatever?  Those situations are so specific that they won't help unless you already lost because of that ailment and are retrying the fight.  Additionally, those effects can already be accomplished via materia + added effect (I would assume, I never used it, because as previously mentioned, useless).

5.  This is my personal gripe but: stat modifiers on materia.  Without modifiers, characters have some (not much) variation between each other stat-wise.  Barret is not as competent as Aeris at magic, but is still useable for casting if you need him (especially for spells which are infrequently cast or don't care about the magic stat).  He compensates with higher HP and attack.  With the modifiers on, putting materia on Barret will turn him into Aeris stat-wise, removing what little differentiation there was between them.  Off the top of my head I can't think of any negative consequences for taking these modifiers out.  Do you have any reason for keeping them in?

Alright, so:

1. There's a setting in your Config Menu called 'Battle Message Speed'; if you've set this all the way up, then in-battle text will fly by in a split second rather than displaying for a couple of seconds. Adjusting this should fix the issue (midway is the default).

2. That's a status 'ailment' called imprisoned which handles units being removed from battle. I found that it 'locks' a character's damaged animation when used with an attack that doesn't eject the character from battle so I used it in this particular battle to create a 2v2 fight. It doesn't appear again, except for the Carry Armor battle when a party member is grabbed (like in default).

3. Odd that nobody reported that before. I'll check him out and see what's happened.

4. The idea with accessories that cover status ailments (and with Added Effect) is to give players more of an edge against bosses they have trouble with or to keep certain characters 'safe' while wandering around certain areas (Confusion on a caster tends to be bad news). But the problem with that in a mod with altered enemies is that players are effectively 'blind' going into fights, so it's not possible to have these equipped ahead of time without guessing. So one thing I've started to do is apply stat boosts to these accessories themselves to make them a bit more viable for blind runs. The changes to the elemental rings seem to have worked out quite well, so I'll be rolling it out to the ailment accessories as well. I think the pure stat-boost accessories might undergo some changes as well to bring a bit of extra diversity in.

5. I don't really agree that Materia equip effects can shorten the gap between characters very easily (maybe at lower levels it would though). You could put the same magic-orientated Materia load you have on Barret and give it to a dedicated caster instead for a lot more damage. The different stat bonuses in a character's weapon also widens that gap; Aeris and Vincent have weapons that boost Magic while Barret's looking at either a long range weapon or a +50Vit/Spr boost. I'll double check the stat trees though; I recently learned how to make my own stat trees rather than using the ones already in the kernel so I can customise them much more easily now.

But as far as Materia equip effects themselves go, the biggest problem I have with them is actually the opposite; they don't change stats enough. With the default equip effects, you can easily set up some pretty OP combos with little to no drawbacks. These equip effects though are stored in the game's .exe and while I do have a .exe patch that has changed these bonuses/penalties (among some other things), there are compatibility issues with other mods that use .exe edits (not to mention balance issues with NT enemies, etc.) that would come up if this was added to the mod as-is which is why it's not currently part of the mod. Instead I've got an Arrange mode in prototype that's going to be designed specifically for use with the .exe patch.

as a fellow fan i want to reply to this post real quick to say that the accessories with status immunities are sometimes make or break for fights if you're a filthy casual like me, for instance today i did the gelnika reno/rude fight and the other day JENOVA-WAR and i absolutely had to use a peace ring and addedeffect-mystify combo to beat it. A lot of the misc status/elemental accessories also add stats now to make them competitive with throwing a champion belt on everyone

also some input for the materia gripes, the modifiers exist as a way to make magic casters even more powerful and round out or even give utility to tanky characters at a HP sacrifice, a lot of encounters now open with some pretty powerful attacks further emphasizing the need for preventative measures over damage output. i regularly run with a physical attacker and a multipurpose caster and offensive caster, sometimes even utilizing HP-MP, dont forget that in late game you can attain quite a few +1 STR materia to balance or even swing the other way. if any changes to materia should be made there should be -HP +Dex or -MP +SPI etc but this starts to get ridiculously messy when you make utility casters and their stats are all over the place, not to mention armor has stats on it now too!

ps when you get to the end of temple of the ancients i think you'll understand why the balance changes are the way they are, also make sure you keep destruct materia on someone at all times ;)

I've been making quite a few equip effects that alter stats like Dex, Spirit, etc. to better personalise certain Materia. If yourself or anyone else wants in on the closed beta for Arrange when it's ready then let me know.

levantine

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #838 on: 2015-03-11 07:32:23 »
In data base counter attack location Is n/a that s why i ask where can i find it :p

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #839 on: 2015-03-11 14:30:43 »
I see, I better fix that.

Counter Attack materia is won from the Chocobo Races. Either as a random prize or as part of the prize pack you get for winning 15 S-Rank Races with your own chocobo.

cicadian

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #840 on: 2015-03-11 15:00:18 »
Counter Attack is only available in Rank A in my experience, once you win your 3 matches you're out of luck if you didn't get it. You can only then get the one from winning 15 S races. Tried for an hour to get a Precious Watch btw, consider removing the less powerful prizes (phoenix down, throwing items) from Rank S if you want to speed up time spent racing?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #841 on: 2015-03-11 16:30:45 »
Counter Attack is only available in Rank A in my experience, once you win your 3 matches you're out of luck if you didn't get it. You can only then get the one from winning 15 S races. Tried for an hour to get a Precious Watch btw, consider removing the less powerful prizes (phoenix down, throwing items) from Rank S if you want to speed up time spent racing?

The chocobo prizes are hard-coded into the .exe itself, so it'd need an .exe patch to change them. I can alter what items are awarded on the field screen, but it wouldn't be ideal if the old names are being displayed in the minigame itself.

levantine

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #842 on: 2015-03-11 18:05:35 »
Race chocobo... I will not get counter attack before a long time lol

levantine

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #843 on: 2015-03-11 18:10:40 »
Anyway, i got the time for go to disc 2 and 3, i'm waiting for the 1.3 in the catalog as far as i can lol

Proxy

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #844 on: 2015-03-11 23:55:05 »
5. I don't really agree that Materia equip effects can shorten the gap between characters very easily (maybe at lower levels it would though). You could put the same magic-orientated Materia load you have on Barret and give it to a dedicated caster instead for a lot more damage. The different stat bonuses in a character's weapon also widens that gap; Aeris and Vincent have weapons that boost Magic while Barret's looking at either a long range weapon or a +50Vit/Spr boost. I'll double check the stat trees though; I recently learned how to make my own stat trees rather than using the ones already in the kernel so I can customise them much more easily now.
I probably could have elaborated more.  The +/-C to Str/Mag/etc is irrelevant.  When an accessory can give +50 Vit, losing a couple from materia doesn't mean anything.  In fact, the lack of effect of those would be a reason to remove them.
The +/-C% on HP/MP however, is very relevant.  A couple +/-10% materias can turn a high HP/low MP tank to a low HP/high MP caster, for no apparent reason.

But as far as Materia equip effects themselves go, the biggest problem I have with them is actually the opposite; they don't change stats enough. With the default equip effects, you can easily set up some pretty OP combos with little to no drawbacks. These equip effects though are stored in the game's .exe and while I do have a .exe patch that has changed these bonuses/penalties (among some other things), there are compatibility issues with other mods that use .exe edits (not to mention balance issues with NT enemies, etc.) that would come up if this was added to the mod as-is which is why it's not currently part of the mod. Instead I've got an Arrange mode in prototype that's going to be designed specifically for use with the .exe patch.
Could you elaborate on this a little more?  Are you saying you want stat penalties for materia instead of just changes, or do you just want to magnify the changes?  Currently, there is no drawback for equipping Ifrit, your stats don't get worse, they just change.  Stat penalties would be more like "In exchange for gaining the ability to summon Ifrit, you lose 20 Str."
If stat penalties is what you were going for, I think that sounds like a good idea.  It would encourage only equipping materia that is needed, instead of throwing random materia into spare slots just to gain AP on them.
If that's not what you were getting that, then I don't think I understood what you are trying to say.

ProtomanZxAdvent

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #845 on: 2015-03-12 03:56:14 »
i've beaten the game with this mod i must say it was a nice challenge i would report bugs but its stuff thats already been said with it so i will wait untill the final release of this mod to test again

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #846 on: 2015-03-12 07:24:12 »
i've beaten the game with this mod i must say it was a nice challenge i would report bugs but its stuff thats already been said with it so i will wait untill the final release of this mod to test again

I gotta say, that was quick. It'll be a while before the mod reaches it's final release, but there's an Arrange mode I'm working on that might be worth a whirl in a few weeks when it's done. It'll be using the .exe patch and I'm going to adjust some of the mod's content to freshen things up for returning players. Cheers for playing the mod, bud; glad you enjoyed it.

I probably could have elaborated more.  The +/-C to Str/Mag/etc is irrelevant.  When an accessory can give +50 Vit, losing a couple from materia doesn't mean anything.  In fact, the lack of effect of those would be a reason to remove them.
The +/-C% on HP/MP however, is very relevant.  A couple +/-10% materias can turn a high HP/low MP tank to a low HP/high MP caster, for no apparent reason.

I agree with that, the default materia equip effects as far as the regular stats go are pretty inconsequential. In NT, some might seem a bit out of place (like the -1 to Luck that I think Steal or Sense has). That's because each Materia has been assigned a particular 'set' of equip effects that won't pay off until the .exe patch is applied, which was originally just going to be an optional extra rather than the basis for the alternate mode called Arrange. Now that the .exe patch is going to be designed for a separate set of files, I can probably adjust the ones in the Regular NT back to what they were or I could run some tests and see how things go with 'blank' equip effects for everything.

Could you elaborate on this a little more?  Are you saying you want stat penalties for materia instead of just changes, or do you just want to magnify the changes?  Currently, there is no drawback for equipping Ifrit, your stats don't get worse, they just change.  Stat penalties would be more like "In exchange for gaining the ability to summon Ifrit, you lose 20 Str."
If stat penalties is what you were going for, I think that sounds like a good idea.  It would encourage only equipping materia that is needed, instead of throwing random materia into spare slots just to gain AP on them.
If that's not what you were getting that, then I don't think I understood what you are trying to say.

That's basically what I'm aiming to do; I want to make Materia set-ups something that have to be considered carefully and which makes spammable/throw-away combos like 5x Counter Attack or a Mime chain either impractical or at the very least unstable. If the player is going to use Quadra-Magic + Bahamut ZERO with W-Summon along with other things like Command Counter + Mime then I want there to be serious drawbacks to that which need to be taken into account and that's where heftier stat penalties come in. The initial impressions I got from people running the .exe patch a while ago was very promising so now I want to run with it and make an alternate version of NT that's been designed around it, along with other adjustments possible through the .exe.
« Last Edit: 2015-03-12 07:27:16 by Sega Chief »

ProtomanZxAdvent

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #847 on: 2015-03-12 16:35:27 »
I gotta say, that was quick. It'll be a while before the mod reaches it's final release, but there's an Arrange mode I'm working on that might be worth a whirl in a few weeks when it's done. It'll be using the .exe patch and I'm going to adjust some of the mod's content to freshen things up for returning players. Cheers for playing the mod, bud; glad you enjoyed it.
Well i've gotten so used to jrpgs now that its almost to dam easy to figure things out without a guide

Alfarjamie

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #848 on: 2015-03-13 09:28:17 »
so the IRO on 7th heaven for 1.2 you cannot get ultimate weapons ever? or?

levantine

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.3)
« Reply #849 on: 2015-03-13 10:05:56 »
No, but save 1.2 are compatible with 1.3, and the 1.3 could be updating in the catalog as soon as this weekend :)