Author Topic: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!  (Read 88013 times)

falkTX

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #200 on: 2015-06-27 14:34:18 »
Well, when is the FF8 remake coming?
SE is making 7, why not 8, or 9?

FF8 remake would be amazing to see, but I don't think it's ever going to happen.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #201 on: 2015-06-27 15:43:28 »
One step at a time :)

We didn't suspect 7 would ever be made, so it's possible with 8 and 9.

Shard

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #202 on: 2015-06-27 15:48:20 »
If they are doing a 20 year remake for each of them, ff8's remake will come in 2019. Plenty of time to discourage them from ruining another good game in the series.

White Wind

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #203 on: 2015-06-27 15:54:10 »
There is one thing I'm really happy about.  No more endless remake speculation.  No more having to read "when it is happening" or "Rumour confirmed!" "Are they remaking it?"  Every single week.  After this there will be no more remake talk.

Well, when is the FF8 remake coming?

XD

StickySock

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #204 on: 2015-06-27 17:51:45 »
Well, when is the FF8 remake coming?
SE is making 7, why not 8, or 9?

FF8 remake would be amazing to see, but I don't think it's ever going to happen.
Sorry to break it to you but not only do you have to wait for 7, 6 is the most likely candidate for a remake. 6 is the third most popular entry in the franchise after 7 and 10, and many consider it to be the best in the series (I don't, but I feel like I should replay it since it has been so long to see if my opinion has changed).

Nomura has recently expressed interest in remaking 5 and 6, since there is a gap between the 4 remake and the 7 remake, making it even more likely that they are up next.

8 and 9 are only really important to those of us who grew up with the 7-9 era, but 8 and 9 have a mixed reception among fans. I know there are fans that love both (I love 9, it's my 3rd favorite FF only slightly behind 7 and 10), but there are those that dislike 8 for its poorly written story and broken gameplay (I'm one of them) and those that dislike 9 for its art style.

Being logical, I'd say 5 gets a remake on a handheld, 6 on a console, and 8 & 9 possibly get remade last sometime way down the line. FF12 remaster is a given IMO. As far as wishful thinking goes, I'd be down for Chrono Trigger remake.

EQ2Alyza

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!!!
« Reply #205 on: 2015-06-27 18:04:07 »
As far as wishful thinking goes, I'd be down for Chrono Trigger remake.

I would prefer this over any other FF remake.

Chrono Trigger <3

Izban

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #206 on: 2015-06-28 01:12:28 »
personally i wouldnt mind if they gave the option for a star ocean style battle system.... or a 3d Secret of mana style battle system...

all this whining saying its gonna be horrible because this guy is involved or this guy isn't...ima wait till it is done and see what its like before judgment... cause we all know any real fan is gonna buy it anyway even if it is a steaming pile... just to rip the models for classic.

Really though the people involved are like many of of us and have a deep attachment or so they have said and now boom they are using the job to remake it really how can that be a bad thing

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #207 on: 2015-06-28 01:16:47 »
I'm a real fan and I can assure you I won't be buying it.  I sold my PS3 and I have no plans on buying any modern console.  If I was even dreaming of buying this remake, I'd have to see countless videos and reviews beforehand.

The people who are going to buy it are the vast majority of fans who aren't able to see past this money making scheme and are completely incapable of separating nostalgia and reason.  I don't think that makes them any more a real fan than I am.

StickySock

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #208 on: 2015-06-28 04:40:55 »
I'm a real fan and I can assure you I won't be buying it.  I sold my PS3 and I have no plans on buying any modern console.  If I was even dreaming of buying this remake, I'd have to see countless videos and reviews beforehand.

The people who are going to buy it are the vast majority of fans who aren't able to see past this money making scheme and are completely incapable of separating nostalgia and reason.  I don't think that makes them any more a real fan than I am.
The "no real Scottsman" argument isn't valid in any scenario, so no none of them are more of a "real" fan than you are. On the other hand, labeling the people who buy it as people who aren't capable of seeing a money making scheme or separating nostalgia and reason is also incorrect.

I am a fan who is likely to buy it as long as it checks my own personal set of boxes I'd like to see. For me, as long as they keep the memorable, mature-rated moments (cursing, sephiroth violence, cross dressing, honey-bee inn, etc.), and keep everything reasonable and give it the charm of the original instead of complete fanservice pandering, then I'll be likely to buy it.

Personally, I've said in the past how Kingdom Heart's Sephiroth fight made me dream of an ARPG fight where you could be Cloud instead of Sora, and I've personally always wanted to see it. It is what made me so interested in FFXV, because that combined with the character switching that was showcased when it was still FFVSXIII looked like it could be implemented in FF7 (Prompto's third person shooter section for Barret and Vincent comes to mind). Now that FFXV scrapped the character switching, I wonder if it'll return in the FF7 remake.

I know it's basically heresy to say, but an ARPG with character switching and a deep Materia system is a wet dream to me. With a pause mode similar to what Dragon Age Inquisition was trying to do, but executed in a way that was satisfying, would be basically everything I want in a game. Being able to fight and move freely, but to also pause the action and que up abilities is what I love about the Tales series, but I think that it could be done soooo much better. Basically, I would want a hybrid system that allows careful planning and reaction based combat simultaneously. The reason why that is not going to happen is because that would be almost like making two or three battle systems for the same game, and balancing all of it accordingly. Most hybrid systems are good, but they seem to not be as good at either as games that focus on a single battle system. I can always dream though...

That being said, honestly I'd be down for any combat system as long as the material is implemented in a significant way, and that the battles themselves were interesting to play.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-28 04:42:37 by StickySock »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #209 on: 2015-06-28 06:06:48 »
The "no real Scottsman" argument isn't valid in any scenario, so no none of them are more of a "real" fan than you are. On the other hand, labeling the people who buy it as people who aren't capable of seeing a money making scheme or separating nostalgia and reason is also incorrect.

Just saying - The No True Scotsman fallacy is an informal fallacy that is easy to get wrong.

To exemplify a general issue with the appeal to the fallacy though -
in the case of Scotsmen, this is determined by legal national status. A person who is not a legal Scottish National is not a Scotsman period. And all who are, are all real Scotsmen period.
The no true Scotsman fallacy only works when the state that is being discussed is ambiguous - and most things are (after all, we could
have a perfectly valid discussion about whether or not legal national status should be the qualifying factors for Scotsmen or not)
It is possible to have discussions about what factors into a state, or what qualifies something as being applicable for certain labels without this being a no true Scotsman fallacy.

In the cases of fans - qualifying your opinion about what you think a true fan is, is not a NTS fallacy.
The NTS fallacy only happens when the opinion of what a true [something] is, is re-asserted as fact as a means of dismissing
objections to the definition you're working with.

As for whether DLPB is incorrect in his labeling of the people who'll end up buying the remake -
You have no way of knowing that unless you read his post in bad faith and assumed he was actually, and literally,
talking about every single person who's going to buy it - which I think is unreasonable. He was clearly generalizing.
And, making a personal appeal is not a rebuttal to his perspective.
I am not going to say that he is correct - but you can't in good conscious pretend to know that he is incorrect either, unless you have access
to some great pool of FF7 fan statistics going into why they plan on buying the game or not.
In either case, you're both making an argument from ignorance.

Personally, I think most of the people who will buy it, won't actually be people who played the original.
Most people will be new to the title and will probably buy it because they think it looks "kewl".

Personally, I might end up buying the game just because I want to know personally, first-hand, how it turned out.
If it's bad though, it'll end up in the "used games" section at the local Tsutaya faster than people can say "You look like a bear trapped in a
marshmallow."

Izban

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #210 on: 2015-06-28 10:29:07 »
whoa gaiz.... clearly i poked a nerve.....seriously peeps not giving things a chance casting judgments before things are even shown,let alone played, thats just silly.(opinion... tiz the interwebz gaiz)

when i said real im going from the ideal point of view as in the peeps that have been praying for something like this for nigh on 18years.... even if it turns out to be a steaming pile one of the industry giants has listened to the masses,remaking a classic...im not saying people are not ff7 fans

anywho sudeki active battle type system would be nice too

StickySock

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #211 on: 2015-06-28 19:19:58 »
Just saying - The No True Scotsman fallacy is an informal fallacy that is easy to get wrong.

To exemplify a general issue with the appeal to the fallacy though -
in the case of Scotsmen, this is determined by legal national status. A person who is not a legal Scottish National is not a Scotsman period. And all who are, are all real Scotsmen period.
The no true Scotsman fallacy only works when the state that is being discussed is ambiguous - and most things are (after all, we could
have a perfectly valid discussion about whether or not legal national status should be the qualifying factors for Scotsmen or not)
It is possible to have discussions about what factors into a state, or what qualifies something as being applicable for certain labels without this being a no true Scotsman fallacy.

In the cases of fans - qualifying your opinion about what you think a true fan is, is not a NTS fallacy.
The NTS fallacy only happens when the opinion of what a true [something] is, is re-asserted as fact as a means of dismissing
objections to the definition you're working with.

As for whether DLPB is incorrect in his labeling of the people who'll end up buying the remake -
You have no way of knowing that unless you read his post in bad faith and assumed he was actually, and literally,
talking about every single person who's going to buy it - which I think is unreasonable. He was clearly generalizing.
And, making a personal appeal is not a rebuttal to his perspective.
I am not going to say that he is correct - but you can't in good conscious pretend to know that he is incorrect either, unless you have access
to some great pool of FF7 fan statistics going into why they plan on buying the game or not.
In either case, you're both making an argument from ignorance.

Personally, I think most of the people who will buy it, won't actually be people who played the original.
Most people will be new to the title and will probably buy it because they think it looks "kewl".

Personally, I might end up buying the game just because I want to know personally, first-hand, how it turned out.
If it's bad though, it'll end up in the "used games" section at the local Tsutaya faster than people can say "You look like a bear trapped in a
marshmallow."

Wow, getting super technical on our fallacies are we? Just saying: "it's not really a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy, it's actually a (Insert Fallacy)" would have sufficed. It's basically like saying, "you used the wrong word for 'there'", and then continue to breakdown the historical use of every phonetically similar word. You knew what I was meaning to say, the uncalled for lecture seems a little abrasive/defensive, or possibly a little self-congratulatory showboating. I was never asserting any type of superiority in my statement, so I'm not appreciating the condescension here. However, I'm not denying you are correct.

DLPB must have read Izban's post in "bad faith" in order to assume that he was literally talking about every "real fan" was going to buy it then, no? For someone who is keen to "understand" the implications in DLPB's writing, you sure ignored what either Izban or I were "implying" in our posts. Obviously, both DLPB and Izban were making generalizations about a large portion of the actual population they were talking about. But if DLPB was clearly meaning to use a word such as "most", than Izban was as well. If DLPB read Izban's as "all" is it not fair to assume that DLPB's post written in a similar manner was intended to be "all"?

And I'm sorry that my opinions need to say "Personally," before I'm allowed to express them otherwise they are a illogical and ignorant attempts at dismissing DLPB's "facts" because neither of us know everything about everyone. People may not have quantifiable data regarding the opinions they express, but since we are both long time fans (meaning we've talked about the game and discussed with others for years) we both have a pretty good "feeling" (personal estimation) of what that data would turn out to be.

You dismissed everything I had to say, and in a very negative way, based on the technicality of my writing, and not my overall meanings. I was attempting to have a friendly discussion which you have nearly single-handedly ruined any enthusiasm I had for speaking on the subject here. I apologize ahead of time for anyone who feels my rebuttal here is too abrasive as well, but it's this type of posting that gives the impression that there is "correct" way of expressing opinions (apparently using "Personally," on video game "general discussion" board instead of just using common courtesy).

@Izban, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was being rude or condescending; it was not my intention, and I apologize. I was merely attempting to say to DLPB that obviously just because you don't buy the game does not mean you're not a real fan, and in the same way just because you buy it does not mean you are too dense/ignorant to understand that it is a money making scheme.

Mayo Master

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #212 on: 2015-06-28 19:40:12 »
You dismissed everything I had to say, and in a very negative way, based on the technicality of my writing, and not my overall meanings. I was attempting to have a friendly discussion which you have nearly single-handedly ruined any enthusiasm I had for speaking on the subject here.
Personally, I believe that I share your subjective impression. In my opinion, I think it is very difficult to have a conversation which does not degenerate into a confrontation.

StickySock

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #213 on: 2015-06-28 19:50:42 »
Personally, I believe that I share your subjective impression. In my opinion, I think it is very difficult to have a conversation which does not degenerate into a confrontation.
That seems to be the case. In my opinion, I think people tend to be nicer to those that agree with them, and interpret their posts in a much more positive light.
I agree and I think it is because people tend to be nicer to those that agree with them, and interpret their posts in a much more positive light.

EDIT: Sorry Mayo! I reread my posts to try to eliminate as many possible negative interpretations as I could, then I realized I copied the structure of your previous post. It almost makes it look like I was intentionally copying/mocking if looked out of context.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-28 20:06:39 by StickySock »

Kaldarasha

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #214 on: 2015-06-28 20:02:53 »
If will turned out good I will buy it.

Honestly this goes the same way as the discussion about Dan's Beacause mod on an other forum. Something actually good is happening and most are against it for some reasons, while other try to defend it.
Ironically I bet that exact the same guys who attacked DLPB's mod are now happy that SE is finally creating a remake and the fact that SE will make changes to the game with which they grow doesn't matter anymore.

At the moment it I can't tell how good the game will be. I have only concerns about the way they present the story and I hope some one is reducing Nomura's great character art to a practical looking way as they once did with the work of Amano.

StickySock

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #215 on: 2015-06-28 20:12:02 »
If will turned out good I will buy it.

Honestly this goes the same way as the discussion about Dan's Beacause mod on an other forum. Something actually good is happening and most are against it for some reasons, while other try to defend it.
Ironically I bet that exact the same guys who attacked DLPB's mod are now happy that SE is finally creating a remake and the fact that SE will make changes to the game with which they grow doesn't matter anymore.

At the moment it I can't tell how good the game will be. I have only concerns about the way they present the story and I hope some one is reducing Nomura's great character art to a practical looking way as they once did with the work of Amano.
But what about people like me who are absolutely excited about Dan's mod but are also cautiously optimistic about the remake? I do agree that Nomura's art could use some editing (I don't think that is the term I'm looking for.). I love some of Nomura's art, but I feel he has a tendency to over-design quite often.

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #216 on: 2015-06-28 20:30:17 »
I'd actually say most people are FOR the retranslation going by overall opinions I've seen online.  It varies from site to site (one or two places it's 10-90. Note the 10 is first.), but generally I'd say it's around 70-30.  Here at Qhimm's it's even higher than that really.

I certainly don't think criticism of the remake is the same as the one our mod gets - if that were the case, I wouldn't be criticizing the remake.  I understand that we have limited info on it, but the info we do have is not a positive thing in my view.  Some people aren't bothered if the ATB system gets abandoned and I am.  It's looking like that is one of things that will go.  I'd think it's obvious why I'd be against that change - because that is a major part of what made me a fan of FF7 in the first place.  It IS FF7.  I heard the same things when  FF13 came out "Oh, well, I didn't really like minigames"  and so on.

That isn't a good enough argument.  Saying you are ok with change isn't an argument against cutting content or changing the original game in extreme ways.

If this remake deviates in the way I expect and find HIGHLY likely, I won't like it and a good number of the original fans won't like it.  There are logical reasons for that to be so.  Most criticisms the retranslation get aren't logical because, in that case, we were correcting mistakes - we were not changing the game into something it wasn't or wasn't intended to be.  The engine, battle system and everything important is intact.   

I'm sure some people are against the remake for the same reason as they dislike our mod.  But the two sites I mentioned above that are 90-10 against our retranslation seem to be 90-10 in favour of the remake.  That is interesting.  I think the die hards out there are happy as long as "canon" is preserved and as long as it's "official".  They mostly seem to be against change if it's not ratified by the great God Senix.


Edit:

I also found these nuggets about FF13 and why traditional towns were removed:

Quote
In a recent interview with Ultimania, they say that the limit isn't the HD technology, it's the amount of artisanship. "Considering the amount of work to make graphics that deserve HD, it is hard to make towns in the conventional style," said Toriyama. FFVII's graphics were beautiful at the time, but when you consider that we all played them on a 4:3 TV SD screen rather than the 1080p HD behemoths we're all playing games on today, you realize that it's a lot more work for artists to put in to make the game look as epic as Final Fantasy should. That's one reason why FFXIII doesn't have conventional RPG towns.

Kitase agrees, saying that "it is very hard to make games on PlayStation 3 in the same style the games in that era had. Making graphics will take enormous time." So score one for standard definition and the limits of the old pre-HD consoles. Note that neither producer says it's impossible, just a lot of work. So maybe some enterprising young developer will come along and make a solid, HD JRPG in the old-school fashion.

Well, here's an idea...  use 720p for FF7 and keep to the same style so you don't need to drop content.  Radical!
"Look as epic"  - flawed thinking.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-29 04:35:49 by DLPB »

hian

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #217 on: 2015-06-29 11:27:01 »
Wow, getting super technical on our fallacies are we? Just saying: "it's not really a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy, it's actually a (Insert Fallacy)" would have sufficed. It's basically like saying, "you used the wrong word for 'there'", and then continue to breakdown the historical use of every phonetically similar word. You knew what I was meaning to say, the uncalled for lecture seems a little abrasive/defensive, or possibly a little self-congratulatory showboating. I was never asserting any type of superiority in my statement, so I'm not appreciating the condescension here. However, I'm not denying you are correct.

Absurd. How defensive can you get?

I took the time to fill out my response, because I know from experience that most people don't react well to having someone
simply assert that they're wrong about something without a reason (ironically, like you did).
I provided a reason as a courtesy, instead of being a douche about it and saying something along the lines of
"Nobody used a no true Scotsman fallacy here. You're wrong, and if you don't know your fallacies, don't use them" or something else to
that effect.

And no, I didn't know what you were saying, because by all accounts, you seemed to be erroneously using a fallacy to make a point in a way
that a lot of people do. I simply pointed that out.
The fact that you responded to my post in the way you did, seems to indicate that A.) you can't handle constructive criticism, or B.) you're projecting all this strawberries over on me, because my reply seemed to peg you exactly for the thing that you now claim I am - "a condescending person engaged in self-congratulatory showboating".

DLPB must have read Izban's post in "bad faith" in order to assume that he was literally talking about every "real fan" was going to buy it then, no? For someone who is keen to "understand" the implications in DLPB's writing, you sure ignored what either Izban or I were "implying" in our posts. Obviously, both DLPB and Izban were making generalizations about a large portion of the actual population they were talking about. But if DLPB was clearly meaning to use a word such as "most", than Izban was as well. If DLPB read Izban's as "all" is it not fair to assume that DLPB's post written in a similar manner was intended to be "all"?

Irrelevant. I was replying to you, not to DLPB - and regardless of what DLPB may or may not have read into Izban's post, your reaction to that was senseless.

But let's play anyways -
DLPB used the word "vast majority", not "all" and so the two are therefore not comparable. Secondly, DLPB has good history on this page - he is generally reasonable - and it's therefore also reasonable to read his posts in good faith. Izban on the other hand,  writes like a 13 years old from the 90's who just got his or her hands on MSN messenger, and writes barely coherent posts. 

And I'm sorry that my opinions need to say "Personally," before I'm allowed to express them otherwise they are a illogical and ignorant attempts at dismissing DLPB's "facts" because neither of us know everything about everyone.

Nobody said you did. Stop strawmanning.
You said DLPB was "incorrect." That's what I reacted to, because that's not a statement of opinion.
If you think it is, you either need to learn what "opinion" means, or need to learn what "incorrect" means.
It's not possible to be "incorrect in ones opinion".

People may not have quantifiable data regarding the opinions they express, but since we are both long time fans (meaning we've talked about the game and discussed with others for years) we both have a pretty good "feeling" (personal estimation) of what that data would turn out to be.

But they are just that. They're just feelings, and they're in contradiction at that.
So is any one of you more right than the other? I don't know, neither do you, which is why it behooves people to write with a little humility.
The reason I picked on your post, is because your dismissal of DLPB (which I would have no issue with in general, because I don't agree with his statement either) was an obstinate "you're incorrect" statement based on nothing.
Did DLPB say something silly? Yeah maybe he did - you replying with something silly in turn is daft though. You're better than that.

You dismissed everything I had to say, and in a very negative way, based on the technicality of my writing, and not my overall meanings.

What was that exactly? Except for the two first lines I replied to, everything else in your post was a monologue in no way
pertaining to the post that you quoted. Why should I reply to that? I.E I didn't dismiss anything that was pertinent to the reply you made.

I was attempting to have a friendly discussion which you have nearly single-handedly ruined any enthusiasm I had for speaking on the subject here. I apologize ahead of time for anyone who feels my rebuttal here is too abrasive as well, but it's this type of posting that gives the impression that there is "correct" way of expressing opinions (apparently using "Personally," on video game "general discussion" board instead of just using common courtesy). 

Get over yourself.
There is a correct way of expressing opinions, and that is as opinions. Saying people are incorrect, and then hiding behind "that's just my opinion", is BS of the third degree. It's lazy, it's condescending and it's rude as F.
Besides, if you're allowed to have "opinions" on whether people are correct or not, so am I and everybody else, so when somebody
replies to you, and takes you to task on your "incorrect opinion" and you react like you just did, you show that you're an over-emotional, entitled
and selective little person.

You don't have enthusiasm anymore? Too bad. People like you ruin my enthusiasm for associating with human beings, so I guess we're equal
in that regards.

@Izban, I'm sorry if it seemed like I was being rude or condescending; it was not my intention, and I apologize. I was merely attempting to say to DLPB that obviously just because you don't buy the game does not mean you're not a real fan, and in the same way just because you buy it does not mean you are too dense/ignorant to understand that it is a money making scheme.

If you had actually said that the first time around, I wouldn't have raised an eye-brow.

whoa gaiz.... clearly i poked a nerve.....seriously peeps not giving things a chance casting judgments before things are even shown,let alone played, thats just silly.(opinion... tiz the interwebz gaiz)

No you didn't.

And no, there is nothing silly about managing your expectations based on qualified opinions prior to the release of something.
In fact, not doing that is silly in my opinion.

If you're negative about this release now and the remake turns out great, you'll be positively surprised and the game will feel that much better for it. If it turns out bad, it will just have conformed to your expectations and you'll have lost nothing.
If you buy into the hype on the other hand, and the game turns out good, it will just be what you expected (most you'll
still be disappointed because even if it's good, it doesn't live up to the hype).
If it turns out bad, it will be a massive disappointment instead, and you'll feel like an idiot for investing all that emotion into the hype.

With me now?
« Last Edit: 2015-06-29 11:29:39 by hian »

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #218 on: 2015-06-29 14:03:25 »
Keep it courteous, guys. I don't care what opinions you have on the game, but this thread is becoming hostile. If y'all don't cool down a bit, I'm gonna have to lock the thread. ~Covarr

If you're negative about this release now and the remake turns out great, you'll be positively surprised and the game will feel that much better for it. If it turns out bad, it will just have conformed to your expectations and you'll have lost nothing.
If you buy into the hype on the other hand, and the game turns out good, it will just be what you expected (most you'll
still be disappointed because even if it's good, it doesn't live up to the hype).
If it turns out bad, it will be a massive disappointment instead, and you'll feel like an idiot for investing all that emotion into the hype.
You have forgotten a very real middle option: a "wait and see" approach. I don't wanna be too positive about this because I don't deny there really is a high chance they'll Frog this up, but I also don't wanna be too negative lest the game turns out good and I end up looking like a moron for talking Sleep about it. As it stands, they've shown precious little, and for me to form a strong opinion of any sort, whether it be positive or negative, would be foolhardy IMO.

That said, I'm well aware my standards for what I'll enjoy are probably lower, or at least different, from everyone else's. I don't have a problem with broad, sweeping changes inherently, as long as they don't suck in and of themselves (for example, the remake of the movie Sabrina was significantly different than the original, and I thought it was much better for it). I don't necessarily expect anyone to agree with this, but that's how I treat media in general; I'm going to judge it on its own rather than as a Final Fantasy game or a remake, and if it holds up in that respect, I'll have fun with it, and if it doesn't, I won't. I certainly won't judge other people for liking it if I don't or vice versa.

Given that they are going to change things, I'd certainly much rather those changes appear in the form of a remake than patches and updates to the original. People give George Lucas a lot of Slow about changing the original Star Wars, but there really is something to be said about applying creative liberties to a new product rather than halfheartedly MBarriering it onto the original. If nothing else, this allows them to make their changes in such a manner that allows the original to continue existing (Fury you, Star Wars Special Editions), and with a consistent internal tone rather than new material in a framework that really doesn't fit it.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-29 14:14:16 by Covarr »

DLPB

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #219 on: 2015-06-29 14:04:10 »
Also, I've given Senix plenty of chances.  The reason they are still going about making mediocre games is precisely because some will give them endless chances.  There does come a point where their track record removes any enthusiasm.  And, like Hian said, this is not simply a blind dismissal.

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #220 on: 2015-06-29 14:29:13 »
Yeah yeah, I am sorry for being hostile. My first post was anything but though. I was replying in kind. Perhaps that's not the smartest thing I could have done, but I am not accustomed to taking strawberries lying down for no apparent reason.

You have forgotten a very real middle option: a "wait and see" approach. I don't wanna be too positive about this because I don't deny there really is a high chance they'll Frog this up, but I also don't wanna be too negative lest the game turns out good and I end up looking like a moron for talking Sleep about it. As it stands, they've shown precious little, and for me to form a strong opinion of any sort, whether it be positive or negative, would be foolhardy IMO.

I didn't forget it - I just didn't see a point of mentioning it since it didn't pertain to positions held by most people in the conversation.

I don't agree that they've shown "precious little" though (well they have, but not in context). They've shown and said enough to cement the fact that this remake is going to deviate to quite some degree from the original, and very likely in the direction of later spin-off products like AC.
I also don't agree that forming a negative opinion is foolhardy - As I said, if you go in with lowered expectations, there is no real loss so it can hardly be considered foolhardy.

Unless, it's as you say that you're worried about how you'll look if it turns out okay after you voiced
an opinion to the effect that it was going to be bad, which I think is pointless. You can hold an opinion and still qualify it
as something you hold on a scale of probability, not as a certainty - which is what I am doing.
I think it's going to be bad. That does not mean that it will, or that I will have any issue eating those words if it turns out to be good.

There is nothing bad, or embarrassing about being wrong.
Personally, from a perspective of self-development, I think it's better for people to have opinions and learn to be wrong, then for people to avoid having opinions out of fear of being wrong.

That said, I'm well aware my standards for what I'll enjoy are probably lower, or at least different, from everyone else's. I don't have a problem with broad, sweeping changes inherently, as long as they don't suck in and of themselves

Here we agree. My worry though, is that the changes they're planning aren't the kind of changes that would make a reboot/re-imagining a good game in its own right.

(for example, the remake of the movie Sabrina was significantly different than the original, and I thought it was much better for it). And if they are going to change things, I'd certainly much rather those changes appear in the form of a remake than patches and updates to the original. People give George Lucas a lot of Slow about changing the original Star Wars, but there really is something to be said about applying creative liberties to a new product rather than halfheartedly MBarriering it onto the original.

The thing though, is that there is such a thing as good, faithful remakes that aren't just halfhearted semi-upgrades etc.

The Resident Evil 1 HD remake is to my mind, probably the best remake of a PS1 classic (or perhaps of any classic) that I've ever seen.
It manages to be stay the same, and be different at the same time. It's updated in all ways that matter, yet also stays the same
in all ways that matter.

This kinda stuff is possible, and it's because it's possible that FF7R leaves such a sour taste in my mouth after the trailer
and the interviews that we have to go on now.

As DLPB has said several times over - SE has a bad track-record as a company dealing with the FF7 universe, and even
in making JRPGs in general. How many times do they have to screw up before it becomes reasonable to lower one's
expectations of their future projects?
Or are you opposed to lowered expectations in general?

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #221 on: 2015-06-29 14:34:48 »
It's sad too, because once upon a time I remember being so confident about FF that I could preorder.  I preordered FF8 and I think I did FF9 10 and 10-2 (yeah, the one where it all fell apart and I then stopped preordering FF).  FF7-10 were so damn good and hardly put a foot wrong.  At the very least you were getting something that had been made with passion and effort.  But now, you literally could not pay me to play modern FF games.
« Last Edit: 2015-06-29 14:36:40 by DLPB »

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #222 on: 2015-06-29 15:51:54 »
Or are you opposed to lowered expectations in general?
Not so much opposed. People can expect what they want, and I'm in no position to hold that against them, whatever those expectations may be. Personally, I don't like having any expectations at all.

Real life example: I was really disappointed by the Super Mario Maker reveal last year. It seemed underpowered and gimmicky for what it was. Now, having seen the huge improvements made and what they showed this year at E3, I'm really excited for it. On the one hand, I am glad to be proven wrong, but on the other hand, I don't like having to eat my words, y'know? I mean, if you don't mind that, more power to ya. I kinda envy that. But I really don't wanna be in that situation myself, so largely I find it easier to just watch from the sidelines without any expectations either way.

One thing that does give me hope is that Nomura said they won't be adding new characters. I don't know if that means introducing new characters entirely, or not even from anywhere else in the compilation, but it does show that they're at least taking this somewhat seriously, and if they do manage to Berserk this up, it'll be a result of honest incompetence rather than simply not giving a Confusion. I can somewhat forgive misguided passion.

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #223 on: 2015-06-29 17:49:26 »
I'm going to judge it on its own rather than as a Final Fantasy game or a remake, and if it holds up in that respect, I'll have fun with it, and if it doesn't, I won't.

I too would be inclined to that, but seriously  I think that will be hard, very hard.
That game will be a game on its own, okay, a revisited FF VII, another kind... but still FF VII. I can't see myself not thinking about the original if I play the remake, it's just impossible, comparisons will rise by themselves in our heads.
Now if it is for the better, then the greater ! I'll just Berserk my pants and go hug squirrels. If they make something valuable out of a new vision of FF VII, improving on the original, I'll be all for it obviously. And what would be the point of a remake if it's not improvement ?
But now if you tell me that the point is to boost the PS4 sales, well yeah  my hopes aren't high at all.

Even if we consider and play the remake as an independent entity  I think that comparisons will be unavoidable, and that parts of our opinion will be influenced by them.
We have a high opinion of the original, the tougher for SE, as fans we should be asking them for a piece of work of very high quality. Here I'm not debating what or how your standards may be for an independent game to be enjoyed by you, we're all different persons, different gamers, and that's all good. I'm just saying that the trend seems to be 'Let's hope it's not
strawberries' rather than 'Hey it's ferning FF VII we're talking about, you rather give us the dope man!'. But it's more like, oh it's about FF VII? Okay, then anything will do... And that's a pitty. ( here I'm not saying that you Covarr said something like that )

( and strawberries, you cast
Berserk before I did, while I was typing x) )
« Last Edit: 2015-06-29 17:52:55 by White Wind »

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Re: Final Fantasy VII Remake is HAPPENING!
« Reply #224 on: 2015-06-30 01:24:45 »
I think one thing people might also be forgetting is that, just because you might have some enthusiasm for the remake, does not necessarily mean you are going to buy it, let alone at full price. I have some excitement, but it's not as though I have a Senix's store linked to my bank account, allowing them to make whatever they want. I was EXTREMELY interested in FF Type-0, but I haven't bought it and am not going to because after I learned more I discovered it was not my cup of tea.

It is logical to have low expectations, because it is basically a win-win, except for when you have to eat your words like Covarr said. That being said, however, sometimes its fun to have a little enthusiasm, to let the announcement brighten your day a little, even if by the time it comes all you have to say is "meh" to it. That exact scenario played out for me regarding Mass Effect 3 (excited initially but never bought it), and I survived it, and I probably would do it again.

I don't think, I may be wrong, but I don't think all viewpoints on the remake are bimodal. It seems to me like more of a gradient of expectations, where Covarr seems to be middle (wait and see), DLPB and hian seem to be lower (nearly convinced it will be crap), and others somewhere between all three. (I personally am more wait and see but undeniably a little happy about the news).