Author Topic: My suggestion to make the site flow better.  (Read 10418 times)

Ryusaizo

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My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« on: 2010-07-19 01:24:53 »
My suggestion for a forum layout. Pardon my lack of skill in getting this through.

[denotes a section]

--sub-forum


[Information]
Site announcements
Rules And FAQS
Suggestions(Suggest ways to better the site)
Help( Have an issue with the website please post it here)

[Modding Community]
Programming Feedback( Suggest ways to better released programs,and report bugs.)
Game Mods(Patches,mods and other enhancements for your FF game)
-- Mod support( Tech support for your FF game)
--Team Avalanche
--(add another popular team project here)
-- Mod request/ suggestions.
Programming Support.

[General Discussion]
Square/FF talk
-- Square news( Square news is for updates/ latest released news about Future releases)
 Banter( talk about every day life, news or random topics.)
Introduction and Absences (new to the site introduce yourself,going on hiatus or vacation tell us)
Artist Corner( For those who are artistic,but do not mod, to show their artwork/ Poetry)



-------
end of suggestion of layout.

I may not be the best person to suggest things, but this is how I usually plan my layouts. First is the actual website info, Next is what this site does, it is a modding community, then it is public gathering. I feel that by properly naming what a section/forum/sub-forum is it will prevent confusion,and result in less trash-canned topics.

I know the site is due for a remodel soon, and this is just a suggestion for a layout, as stated above. You may go ahead an crit me all you want, but I feel this flows better than what we currently have.

nikfrozty

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #1 on: 2010-07-19 13:56:41 »
The forums just had an upgrade and change is still being implemented so I believe what you're suggesting will not be taken to account as of now.

halkun

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #2 on: 2010-07-19 17:53:20 »
I disagree, I'm always open to suggestions. It's really a matter of Qhimm wating to rearrange the forums.

However, we have gone though two major upgrades in forum software, so it may be "stuck" this way without a database rebuild.

Ryusaizo

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #3 on: 2010-07-19 23:17:27 »
Why would you need a data base rebuild this is just a simple rename sections,add sections. Of course i am used to Zeta boards/invisionfree ways of doing things.  Mostly Admin cp- Boards and forums- add forum-add section-choose accessibility.

Hoo hoo -rolls about- Of course a whole crappy suggestion is to move to an invisionfree forum set/Zetaboards. Which would take less than 30min to make everything. Only issue is  thread moving, which only important threads could be compiled/archived and reposted by their respective creators. That is if they wanted the project/thread to go on.

I know I know tons of slashes, tons of commas, and tons of me ranting about.

obesebear

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #4 on: 2010-07-20 01:30:56 »
It probably isn't that difficult at all, just as soon as someone suggests a really good way to reorganize, and Qhimm feels like doing it.

Ryusaizo

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #5 on: 2010-07-20 17:36:56 »
Well if it is alright I can make a mock forum to show what my setup would look like.

Mirenheart

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Re: The New Rules
« Reply #6 on: 2010-07-23 12:42:31 »
Well, I think the ways things run now are good. Though, maybe adding a BIG, BRIGHT RED REMINDER to read the rules, along with a big link, during the registration process might be a good idea. Maybe a warning on how strict rules are taken here.

And a couple of the forum names should be changed.


Game Tweaking --> Game Mod Releases (So people will know it's for releases only)

Tech Support --> Questions (All questions go here, and maybe into sub forums if you can talk Qhimm into it.

Answers (Add a new forum. No posting here except for Moders and Admins. If a question is answered, and it seems to be a really good solution to a problem, the Thread is moved here. That way, people can check here first to see if their problem has already been answered, without having to search through hundreds of old threads and check each  result of a search. Preventing further posting here keeps it from getting full of too many useless posts and garbage threads.)


And maybe a Games forum in Off-topic, so we the people can post some games, like the elimination challenge, without them getting covered by a bunch of useless stuff.

Having a forum specifically named Questions should really help keep people from posting in the wrong sections.

If things are organized a bit better, it should help keep the rule breaking down a bit.


Another thing could be a warning during a double post. If someone is about to double post, it'll show up in red, just like when you get a warning for necroposting. Only make sure to add that it's against the rules. Maybe have another warning that shows up when the words "Pirated Edition" appear in a post. Edit: Haha, it censors it! I think you know what I mean though.

Making it obvious what's against the rules when they are about to break them would really help keep rulebreaking down.
« Last Edit: 2010-07-23 12:48:38 by Mirenheart »

nikfrozty

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Re: Re: The New Rules
« Reply #7 on: 2010-07-23 13:04:41 »
I like your idea about the Answers forum. It will keep the newbies away and keep the questions and discussions cleaner with no extra posts. Although maybe your Tech Support should stay since the questions are already in the FAQ section(although not many people posts new stuff here about common problems so it should be active more). But even if I am OK with Tech Support now, when I was new here I was confused with Tech Support with Tech related since they sounded alike with those tech words. So maybe change Tech with something else? *suggestion*

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #8 on: 2010-07-23 14:11:53 »
If newbies are bent on asking their frequently-occuring questions ("Help!  I downloaded Millenia's weapons and they're all white!"), then no big, glaring FAQ is going to stop them.  They're not bothered to look for the answer themselves - they just ask the question and expect an answer from someone else.

Nevertheless, a Questions forum could be useful.  In theory, it would contain all newb questions to one place, with the odd intelligent question in there as a refresher.  The questions can be answered within the forum, so a separate "Answers" forum wouldn't be necessary.  Maybe name the forum "Questions and Answers" so that newbies can tell what it's for when they see it.

But in any case, Qhimm can't be expected to make any changes to the forum unless there's a consensus on it.  Everyone (at least the vast majority of the active forum members) needs to agree that the changes are necessary, and it should be clear exactly what those changes are.  And even then, the final call goes to Qhimm.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #9 on: 2010-07-23 15:39:58 »
Ryusaizo's suggestions aren't bad. I'd like to see things like this:

[Information]

Site announcements

Rules And FAQs (New members should read this first!)

[On Topic]

Projects (Mods, programs, patches and WIPs; post any problems you have using specific mods in their thread)
--Team Avalanche
--Q-Gears
--FF7Voice

Mechanics Exploration* (Discussions about the inner workings of the game)
--AI scripts and discussion
--PSX version discussion (post discussions about things specific to the PSX versions of FF7&8 here)

Tech Support (Tech support for your FF game. Please read the FAQ forum before posting requests. Post any problems caused by mods or patches in that mod's thread in the Projects board)

[Off topic]

General FF Discussion (Non-modding related FF topics go here)

Completely Unrelated (Help keep the forums clean and easy to read! If you have unrelated stuff you need to post, do it here.)

*Mechanics exploration might not be the best name for this, but I really couldn't think of a name that I liked. In any case, it would cover the kind of topics dealt with in "Tech related" as well as the kind of topics that used to go in "Game tweaking" but have been moved to general. There could probably be a few other sub-forums here as well.
« Last Edit: 2010-07-23 16:06:09 by Kudistos Megistos »

sl1982

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #10 on: 2010-07-23 16:51:09 »
The main problem with this is you get 50+ pages of comments for some mods. Splitting them up between releases and support fixes that.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #11 on: 2010-07-23 16:59:59 »
How is that a problem? If the releases go in the first post, then people will still be able to find it with no trouble, and at least everything to do with the program will be in the same place. Having the release in one thread in one board and the feedback in another creates two problems. The first is that everything is harder to follow and feels a little odd, and the second is that searching is harder. One needs to search in Game Tweaking for the release and Programming feedback for the feedback. We now have a limit on how many searches can be done as well, which makes things much more tedious.

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #12 on: 2010-07-23 18:24:59 »
The main problem with this is you get 50+ pages of comments for some mods. Splitting them up between releases and support fixes that.

I'm with KM on this one.  If the mod/editor is released in the first post, it's fine.  Taking that post and sticking it elsewhere simply creates two threads on the same thing in different boards.  Imo, this setup is a bit more cumbersome than things were before.  I'm also of the opinion that it's kind of pointless to have a thread with only one post in it.

obesebear

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #13 on: 2010-07-23 18:44:03 »
This is Kudistos post just modified some

[Information]

Site announcements

Rules, FAQs, and Tutorials

[Releases]
--Programs (Wall Market, FFVII Music, etc)
--Graphical Mods (Avatars, Models... basically any small edits done that use the already released programs)
--Small Projects (For works that encompass massive editing to the game.  NPCRP or PRP, Seifer's retranslation, Bosola's Rebirth, Ultima Espio's Aerith revival, etc)


[On Topic]


Projects (Projects that are HUGE undertakings,  any and all discussion concerning these projects goes in the respective forum)
--Team Avalanche
--Q-Gears
--FF7Voice

Mechanics Exploration* (Discussions about the inner workings of the game)
--AI scripts and discussion This is going in the right direction...but let's not limit it to AI scripts.  Instead, maybe anything pertaining to editing the games code.  Coding and discussion?
--PSX version discussion (post discussions about things specific to the PSX versions of FF7&8 here) I like the idea of giving PSX it's own little forum...this could also include the people working on Xenogears as well

Tech Support (Tech support for your FF game. Please read the FAQ forum before posting requests. Post any problems caused by mods or patches in that mod's thread in the Projects board. This forum would be strictly for getting the game up and running, not troubleshooting programs.  However, with the invention of Aali's driver...it may not be necessary anymore...thoughts?)

[Off topic]

General FF Discussion (any random discussion concerning FF7.  If you have a question about a mod you want to do, but are not sure how to go about it...that goes here as well)

Completely Unrelated (Help keep the forums clean and easy to read! If you have unrelated stuff you need to post, do it here.)

*Mechanics exploration might not be the best name for this, but I really couldn't think of a name that I liked. In any case, it would cover the kind of topics dealt with in "Tech related" as well as the kind of topics that used to go in "Game tweaking" but have been moved to general. There could probably be a few other sub-forums here as well.
« Last Edit: 2010-07-23 18:45:50 by obesebear »

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #14 on: 2010-07-23 18:50:29 »
I prefer my way, but I can live with that.

What we need are two things; clarity and logic. One of my biggest problems with the current rules and the way they are enforced is that they both leave grey areas and there is little logic to what goes where.

Ideally, the forum layout and board names should be such that people wouldn't even need to read the rules to know what goes where; it should be so clear and intuitive that, if people post in the wrong board, it would be acceptable to punish them just for the sheer stupidity and lack of common sense.

obesebear

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #15 on: 2010-07-23 19:01:05 »
What we need is more participation in this thread.  Then narrow it down to 2 or 3 choices and set up a poll.

Covarr

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #16 on: 2010-07-23 20:05:42 »
The main problem with this is you get 50+ pages of comments for some mods. Splitting them up between releases and support fixes that.
How is that a problem? If the releases go in the first post, then people will still be able to find it with no trouble, and at least everything to do with the program will be in the same place. Having the release in one thread in one board and the feedback in another creates two problems. The first is that everything is harder to follow and feels a little odd, and the second is that searching is harder. One needs to search in Game Tweaking for the release and Programming feedback for the feedback. We now have a limit on how many searches can be done as well, which makes things much more tedious.
I'm gonna have to agree with SeƱor Kudi here. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having fifty pages of comments, if the first post is kept updated, so people can find it. Issues arise primarily when people make a new post for the latest release, but don't ALSO update the first post. Case in point, my FF7Music tutorial. When I need to change something in the bundle, I don't create a new post with a new version, I stick it into the first post. I may create an additional post to announce that there's a change, but that's it. So far, I've not had anybody complain about not being able to find the latest version.

Besides, comments and communication are kinda the whole point of a forum, hell that's pretty much what the word "forum" means. If we want somewhere to put stuff with just the actual releases and no responses, that's what the wiki is for.

NFITC1

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #17 on: 2010-07-23 20:11:49 »
[On Topic]
Mechanics Exploration* (Discussions about the inner workings of the game)
--AI scripts and discussion
--PSX version discussion (post discussions about things specific to the PSX versions of FF7&8 here)

Yes, thank you for that. I've been wanting these categories for a long time.

--AI scripts and discussion This is going in the right direction...but let's not limit it to AI scripts.  Instead, maybe anything pertaining to editing the games code.  Coding and discussion?

Except it should be separate from other mechanics-based questions. It's easier to keep them all together for reference in the future. I see a lot more AI-related questions than other game mechanics. Maybe that's because I'm looking for them, but still. :)

The main problem with this is you get 50+ pages of comments for some mods. Splitting them up between releases and support fixes that.

Not really, the main problem is weeding through those 50 pages to find one piece of info that's useful. Not much can be done about that though. It's just frustrating for me to be working on WM/PrC and remember that there was something that I needed to fix and I couldn't find the post with the latest bugs on it. It doesn't really matter where it is. I DO like the idea of keeping releases and discussion separate though. That way I can bump my own thread and say "Hey look! There's something new!" Without having to tell people to bump the entire thread or be accused of double-posting or whatnot (although double-posting to announce a new version isn't a violation of the rules now).

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #18 on: 2010-07-23 20:42:50 »
Ideally, the forum layout and board names should be such that people wouldn't even need to read the rules to know what goes where; it should be so clear and intuitive that, if people post in the wrong board, it would be acceptable to punish them just for the sheer stupidity and lack of common sense.

Ideally.  But remember that of the 7 billion people roaming the earth, half of them have below-average intelligence.  Stupidity is an unstoppable force that compels its victims to post the wrong things in the wrong places.  It doesn't matter how obvious everything is.  Some people simply cannot be stopped from doing something stupid.

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #19 on: 2010-07-23 20:50:21 »
And it will be much easier to tell them from the above average ones if the layout is clear and logical ;D

Covarr

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #20 on: 2010-07-23 20:57:50 »
I DO like the idea of keeping releases and discussion separate though. That way I can bump my own thread and say "Hey look! There's something new!" Without having to tell people to bump the entire thread or be accused of double-posting or whatnot (although double-posting to announce a new version isn't a violation of the rules now).
Personally, I think there should be an exception to double and necroposting rules for new, relevant updates in a person's own WIP/RELEASE/TUTORIAL thread, and I DON'T think it should be dependent on release and discussion threads being separate (which I think is foolish).

Also, a concern about necroposting. People can get watched status for starting new discussion threads about a project if there already is one, but they can also get watched status for necroposting in an old discussion thread. When given a choice between a redundant thread and necroing, which behavior is preferred?

Bosola

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #21 on: 2010-07-23 22:27:40 »
Traditionally, in forums with low turnovers, necroing is usually better received than creating a new thread, assuming the new post is

* a genuine contribution (don't just post 'LOL GR8 WORK GUYS' in a four-year-old modelling thread)
* really needs to be in that thread (and can't be appended to a newer but nevertheless fairly relevant thread), and
* is following up a non-obsolete topic (i.e. not asking about AI editing in SCENESTER)

Unofficially, I'd also say that the mods in any case look on mishaps with technical contributions far more kindly that misplaced trivialities. Unnecessary posts about LZS compression are quite forgivable; unnecessary posts about your cats are not.

Shankifer

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #22 on: 2010-07-23 23:24:28 »
I prefer my way, but I can live with that.

What we need are two things; clarity and logic. One of my biggest problems with the current rules and the way they are enforced is that they both leave grey areas and there is little logic to what goes where.

Ideally, the forum layout and board names should be such that people wouldn't even need to read the rules to know what goes where; it should be so clear and intuitive that, if people post in the wrong board, it would be acceptable to punish them just for the sheer stupidity and lack of common sense.

The problem with the rules is not really clarity in my opinion. I do agree though with Kudistos on the forum titles though.

The real problem is just ignorance, People spend about 3 minutes and 3 searches looking for a solution to their problem and can't find it, so they post a question. I'm not totally sure a way about making it easier to answer questions. Catagory/Keyword searches, even though since this is a forum, it is sort of categorized on a base level.

A lot of people using this site found it while typing their problem in google search, therefore they click a link, see all the walls of text and decide "I'll post the question, sure to get help then!" which of course isn't always a bad thing to think but it is annoying, I'm guilty of it too so I know what the mindset is going into it. and after spending a while on here you start to get the feel for things.

I don't think there is an end-all solution to new members necroposting or double posting or even asking already answered questions.

Maybe adding a really small forum piece like  "new to qhimm" and maybe even a "new to forums" for people who have never really forum-searched before.

I hope this all makes a little bit of sense.

sl1982

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #23 on: 2010-07-24 00:09:48 »
Except they would not read that either. The only thing to combat this is the warning system. We could have pages and pages of rules, suggestions, FAQ's, whatever, and this type of problem will still happen.

Mirenheart

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Re: My suggestion to make the site flow better.
« Reply #24 on: 2010-07-24 00:37:49 »
Well, a way to stop double posting would be to find somewat to make double posts automatically combine. Or simply make it so people can't post in a thread until someone else posts. As for necro posting... maybe make it so once a thread hasen't been posted in for about, oh 2 months i guess, it is automatically locked to everyone except Mods and Admins. (In game Tweaking, the Person who started the thread can post too, so updates can be made.)

I'm just tossing out ideas, so feel free to praise or criticize as you feel.