Author Topic: [FF7PC-98] The Reunion (OLD THREAD, SAVED FOR POSTERITY)  (Read 909846 times)

Template

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1900 on: 2013-08-16 10:15:47 »
Dan! Do you know off the top of your head why the Avalanche GUI and MO conflict? It messes with the MO hp/mp bar graphics just a wee bit, iirc.

Kaldarasha

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1901 on: 2013-08-16 11:49:09 »
The window.bin is modified after the MO is installed.

Hellbringer616

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1902 on: 2013-08-16 13:22:20 »
I've never had an issue using the two, What i've always done is install the TA mod. Than i install MO and overwrite all the TA stuff with MO stuff.
than point Aalo's driver to the TA folder. and bam. they both work.

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1903 on: 2013-08-16 15:06:12 »
We had a discussion about this too.  Luksy's is better I agree.  However, it turns out that if you look at the conversation, the guy isn't being that forceful... because one of your replies can be less benign (and he then apologises slightly).  He is basically just being condescending to Cloud because he thinks he is a newbie:

#xy 152 160
“I didn't mean to brag,newbie.
 Tell you what,seein' how I'm
 such a warm-hearted guy,I'll
 show ya the ropes.”{NEW}
“Come back this way
  tomorrow when you're in a
  better mood. I gotta set
  some stuff up first.”

knightsoftheround

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1904 on: 2013-08-16 17:27:46 »
We had a discussion about this too.  Luksy's is better I agree.  However, it turns out that if you look at the conversation, the guy isn't being that forceful... because one of your replies can be less benign (and he then apologises slightly).  He is basically just being condescending to Cloud because he thinks he is a newbie:

#xy 152 160
“I didn't mean to brag,newbie.
 Tell you what,seein' how I'm
 such a warm-hearted guy,I'll
 show ya the ropes.”{NEW}
“Come back this way
  tomorrow when you're in a
  better mood. I gotta set
  some stuff up first.”

All about context, I was wondering if more of the conversation would shift meaning a bit.

Template

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1905 on: 2013-08-16 20:15:34 »
The Avalanche GUI and MO do conflict:
They work, but the GUI being installed first causes this:

no matter what is in the mods folder.

So is that happening because the GUI messes with the window.bin too?
« Last Edit: 2013-08-16 20:28:43 by Template »

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1906 on: 2013-08-16 20:33:24 »
That's because Avalanche has a patch we (me and Kranmer) made for it that changes those bars.  You'll need to work out how to install it without that patch (or get someone to edit the exe to place the bar back to correct pos)
« Last Edit: 2013-08-16 20:34:55 by DLPB »

cmh175

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1907 on: 2013-08-16 20:38:36 »
Just run bootleg with the mods in particular you want to work with, and pull them out of your system files. That way they're already in their installed and working condition, and just need to be added to your directories for your iro. This is all in the mods\bootleg\menu file right?

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1908 on: 2013-08-16 20:42:45 »
This convo needs moving elsewhere though....

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1909 on: 2013-08-16 20:49:20 »
Oh. OK. Thanks for the help, Dan.

jrbgarcia

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1910 on: 2013-08-18 02:16:56 »
hi, what do i do if it says MO.exe is an unsupported 16-bit application?

knightsoftheround

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1911 on: 2013-08-18 13:29:34 »
hi, what do i do if it says MO.exe is an unsupported 16-bit application?

Not install it, actually, unless you're after something other than the retranslation project. To quote Dan on the first post: "Please note that the retranslation project currently released with the MO installer is grossly out of date, totally unfinished, and not fit for purpose. Do not install it."

If you're after another aspect of it, I'll have to leave that to people who know more about coding and software than I do. XD

My apologies if I come off as a bit gruff, emotion is hard over the internet. ^_^

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1912 on: 2013-08-18 13:32:16 »
Yes but MO is also the Menu Overhaul Project... which is prob what he wants to install.  If so... why is it saying that.  Anyone?

Kaldarasha

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1913 on: 2013-08-18 14:17:07 »
okay, i got mo.exe to work and Gjoerulv's Hardcore Mod to work. re-torrenting all the fmvres packs now. i hope this works...

I guess it was a mistake on his end.

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1914 on: 2013-08-18 14:28:08 »
I think his other error can be caused by corrupted install file..
« Last Edit: 2013-08-18 16:14:14 by DLPB »

Ver Greeneyes

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1915 on: 2013-08-18 17:20:30 »
Yeah, that error is often caused by corrupted data. Other than that, you usually only see that error when you try to install an older game on a 64-bit system. The game executables themselves are often still 32-bit, but the installers they used were 16-bit. An example of this is C&C: Red Alert. And of course, even older programs did use 16-bit executables.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-18 17:23:41 by Ver Greeneyes »

InuRa

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1916 on: 2013-08-20 21:32:38 »
So I decided to give another quick look to the current translation status, as I had a bit of time on my hands.
But before anything else, is there no spreadsheet with the dialogs the same way there is one with everything else? Would like to go through that one too, even if just for curiosity.

All the suggestions I'm gonna post here are only meant to create some positive criticism and maybe even help DLPB with a translation decision. I often translate stuff FROM english, so I'm used to it and it's welcome. This is different, but...

I do have my own vision on stuff that's gonna be reflected here obviously, I don't chance stuff for the sake of changing, and I don't change stuff if it's gonna create more confusion\problems than it solves.

1
スモーク弾 --> Smoke Bullet   --> Smoke Ball --> (Suggestion) "Smoke Bullet" (Why) The attack is actually shoot from a gun, while "Smoke Ball" is also correct, as the shape is "round-ish", there seems to be no benefit to the change.

2
左キャラ放出   Free Left Character --> Free Left --> (Suggestion) "Release Left Character"         
右キャラ放出   Free Right Character --> Free Right --> (Suggestion) "Release Right Character" (Why) Both the translations became too generic. The robot actually grabs the characters, and later releases them. (As far as I can remember, might wanna triple-check)

3
Head Attack --> Head Charge --> (Suggestion) "Headbutt" (Why) No other attack is called this in FF7; there's also a "Head Attack" in FF9 tho. Head Charge is the literal translation I read...? Maybe not worth changing in the end. I'm also a bit divided on this one.

4
Hell Spear   --> Spear of Hell --> (Suggestion) "Hell Spear" (Why) The retranslation just sounds more wimpy.

5
Napalm Bomb --> Napalm --> (Suggestion) "Napalm Bomb" (Why) It's accurate with the english and japanese. It's shoot from a canon, and it does go "Boom! like a bomb".

6
Poison Breath --> Bio Breath --> (Suggestion) "Poision Breath" (Why) Avoids confusion as the spells are "Bio" from the materia "Poison", so both are correct, Poison is just more accurate to the original script. Not only that, the other attacks are all Poison-something.

7
Scissor Tornado --> Tornado Scissor --> (Suggestion) "Scissor's Tornado" (Why) The monster is called Scissor, so it could work. All 3 sound "OK" in the end I guess.

8
Self-destruct / Suicide    --> Suicide Bomber --> (Suggestion) "Self-destruct" (Why) Since it's an attack "Suicide Bomber" doesn't sound completely appropriate, and "Suicide Bomb" just sounds completely lame.

9
Sub Artillery -->   Reserve Artillery --> (Suggestion) "Artillery Replacement"

10
Verbal Attack --> Abuse --> (Suggestion) "Verbal Abuse" \ "Insult" \ "Taunt" \ "Provoke" (Why) "Abuse" is simply too generic and doesn't really describe the action done during the attack.

11
W-Shield Throw --> Shields Throw --> (Suggestion) "Double Shield Throw" (Why) More literal JP translation that just sounds too cool not to be used.

12
Contain --> Forbidden    --> (Suggestion) Seal

13
HP<-->MP --> Swap --> (Suggestion) HP/MP Swap (Why) More literal (JP). No information regarding the attack's effect is lost.

14
Pre-emptive --> Pre-emptive --> (Suggestion) "Pre-emptive Strike"

15
Near Death --> Critical --> (Suggestion) "Near Death" (Why) Better describes the situation, Critical is -more- associated with attacks I find and not status conditions.

16
Regen --> Regenerate (Suggestion) "Regen" (Why) For consistency, no other reason, no point changing something just for the sake of changing when it means the same (just abbreviated).

17
Vegetable Store --> Greengrocer    --> (Suggestion) "Vegetable Store" (Why) I've mentioned this one before; this sounds very "non-international english". As a non-native english speaking user, had to check what this was on google before comenting on it.

18
Honey Bee Inn --> Honeybee Manor --> (Suggestion) "Honeybee Establishment" (Why) Not happy with this translation either, but maybe it helps someone find the right words.

19
Also, spells using -"a" -"ga" and words that are far too different from the original or japanese ("Figa", "Ko Meteor", "Araise") retranslation don't always work for the best effect.
It all comes down to which Final Fantasy's you've played during your lifetime -"ga" spelles for me automatically reminds me of an AoE\All spell more than anything else, creating instant confusion, as FF11 was probably the one I poured more hours into, followed by FF7.
A decent compromise would be replacing the "1", "2", "3" with "I", "II", "III"...
« Last Edit: 2013-08-20 21:34:38 by InuRa »

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1917 on: 2013-08-20 21:53:48 »
First of all, I have already mentioned before that 99 % of the blue text in the online document online are not being changed again ever.  That said, I will answer these (I do appreciate suggestions, it's just that so much of this has already been answered or thought about numerous times, which is why I have stopped taking requests on any of the blue text, which is finalised.):

Quote
1
スモーク弾 --> Smoke Bullet   --> Smoke Ball --> (Suggestion) "Smoke Bullet" (Why) The attack is actually shoot from a gun, while "Smoke Ball" is also correct, as the shape is "round-ish", there seems to be no benefit to the change.

Smoke ball sounds right.  I have never heard of a "Smoke bullet". I will look at it in game though.


Quote
2
左キャラ放出   Free Left Character --> Free Left --> (Suggestion) "Release Left Character"         
右キャラ放出   Free Right Character --> Free Right --> (Suggestion) "Release Right Character" (Why) Both the translations became too generic. The robot actually grabs the characters, and later releases them. (As far as I can remember, might wanna triple-check)

This move isn't seen in game(?), and I deliberately cut it down in size. It is more a description than a move.  I would prob leave it as it is regardless. Free left and free right sound good to me.

Quote
3
Head Attack --> Head Charge --> (Suggestion) "Headbutt" (Why) No other attack is called this in FF7; there's also a "Head Attack" in FF9 tho. Head Charge is the literal translation I read...? Maybe not worth changing in the end. I'm also a bit divided on this one.

If it is charge towards a player then charge is correct, if it head butts, then butt is correct.   Does it charge?  I dn;t recall any enemy butting anyone.

Quote
4
Hell Spear   --> Spear of Hell --> (Suggestion) "Hell Spear" (Why) The retranslation just sounds more wimpy.

I think it sounds better.

Quote
5
Napalm Bomb --> Napalm --> (Suggestion) "Napalm Bomb" (Why) It's accurate with the english and japanese. It's shoot from a canon, and it does go "Boom! like a bomb".

Napalm is by its own admission dropped as a bomb, the word bomb is redundant.

Quote
6
Poison Breath --> Bio Breath --> (Suggestion) "Poision Breath" (Why) Avoids confusion as the spells are "Bio" from the materia "Poison", so both are correct, Poison is just more accurate to the original script. Not only that, the other attacks are all Poison-something.

This move has nothing to do with materia.

Quote
8
Self-destruct / Suicide    --> Suicide Bomber --> (Suggestion) "Self-destruct" (Why) Since it's an attack "Suicide Bomber" doesn't sound completely appropriate, and "Suicide Bomb" just sounds completely lame.

It is literally a suicide bomber. which is also a real thing in life.

Quote
9
Sub Artillery -->   Reserve Artillery --> (Suggestion) "Artillery Replacement"

It isn't a replacement, it is a reserve.

Quote
10
Verbal Attack --> Abuse --> (Suggestion) "Verbal Abuse" \ "Insult" \ "Taunt" \ "Provoke" (Why) "Abuse" is simply too generic and doesn't really describe the action done during the attack.

Insult is used somewhere else, but I agree this probably needs to be verbal abuse or taunt.  I will check it in game.

Quote
11
W-Shield Throw --> Shields Throw --> (Suggestion) "Double Shield Throw" (Why) More literal JP translation that just sounds too cool not to be used.

It throws both shields I think... but I will check this in game and I tried to avoid keep using "double". 

Quote
12
Contain --> Forbidden    --> (Suggestion) Seal

There is already a seal materia.  And Forbidden captures the meaning.  "Sealed away"

Quote
13
HP<-->MP --> Swap --> (Suggestion) HP/MP Swap (Why) More literal (JP). No information regarding the attack's effect is lost.

I like swap, the description does the rest.

Quote
14
Pre-emptive --> Pre-emptive --> (Suggestion) "Pre-emptive Strike"

Not important.

Quote
15
Near Death --> Critical --> (Suggestion) "Near Death" (Why) Better describes the situation, Critical is -more- associated with attacks I find and not status conditions.

Critical is what it is called in other games, and near death sounds lame.  It was never used in FF7 anyway.  The text goes yellow instead.

16
Quote
Regen --> Regenerate (Suggestion) "Regen" (Why) For consistency, no other reason, no point changing something just for the sake of changing when it means the same (just abbreviated).

Regen is short for regenerate, and the Japanese uses symbol for regeneration. I liked the full version here, and it also makes the status text look neat.

Quote
17
Vegetable Store --> Greengrocer    --> (Suggestion) "Vegetable Store" (Why) I've mentioned this one before; this sounds very "non-international english". As a non-native english speaking user, had to check what this was on google before comenting on it.

It remains vegetable store in US text.  Not in UK.

Quote
18
Honey Bee Inn --> Honeybee Manor --> (Suggestion) "Honeybee Establishment" (Why) Not happy with this translation either, but maybe it helps someone find the right words.

It is a manor.  There is no other word that does it justice.  Perhaps "House"  but even that sounds crap.  Establishment sounds verbose.

Quote
19
Also, spells using -"a" -"ga" and words that are far too different from the original or japanese ("Figa", "Ko Meteor", "Araise") retranslation don't always work for the best effect.
It all comes down to which Final Fantasy's you've played during your lifetime -"ga" spelles for me automatically reminds me of an AoE\All spell more than anything else, creating instant confusion, as FF11 was probably the one I poured more hours into, followed by FF7.
A decent compromise would be replacing the "1", "2", "3" with "I", "II", "III"...

Most FFs that followed VII did pretty much same as me, and I see no reason to change it.  It is fine.  It will never be an exact art.  What you prefer, someone else will not.  I chose a good enough selection :)  If you want to change it to be something else, feel free to use Wallmarket.

Dan
« Last Edit: 2013-08-21 00:45:58 by DLPB »

luksy

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1918 on: 2013-08-21 09:27:42 »
Just weighing in on スモーク弾, could work as "Smoke round".

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1919 on: 2013-08-21 12:00:31 »
Just weighing in on スモーク弾, could work as "Smoke round".

That sounds pretty good!  There's also Smoke Shot...  But I think I used that elsewhere.

InuRa

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1920 on: 2013-08-21 12:15:25 »
First of all, I have already mentioned before that 99 % of the blue text in the online document online are not being changed again ever.  That said, I will answer these (I do appreciate suggestions, it's just that so much of this has already been answered or thought about numerous times, which is why I have stopped taking requests on any of the blue text, which is finalised.):

Why limit possible improvements? :)
If it wasn't for the amount of work involved it would even be nice to have a Steam-like translation submission, and even expand the "reviewed" translation to many more languages.
Just one or two people is never enough to weight in on all the possible translations (IMO!) in order to make it accessible and clean to everyone.

Napalm is by its own admission dropped as a bomb, the word bomb is redundant.

A bomb container is definitely not the only way to use Napalm.

This move has nothing to do with materia.

What's the reason for the change then? Being the english and japanese translations "Poison Breath" (according to your spreadsheet document) and the other attacks "Poison Blow", "Poison Fang" and "Poison Storm"?

It is literally a suicide bomber. which is also a real thing in life.

Pokemon attack exercise doesn't like it much but, I guess it just depends on how we read it. Not a big deal at all.
"Suicide Bomber" uses "Suicide Bomber" on "Cloud".

Most FFs that followed VII did pretty much same as me, and I see no reason to change it.  It is fine.  It will never be an exact art.  What you prefer, someone else will not.  I chose a good enough selection :)  If you want to change it to be something else, feel free to use Wallmarket.

Yeah, I ended up going with just a selected few translations that seemed close to discussion-free regarding menus and stuff, quite some time ago, not bugging anyone by doing so just in my own game anyway.
Also, "Most FFs that followed VII did pretty much same as me" is not a valid argument for that topic as you do the exact opposite much more often; same goes for me; but I do understand your point. ;)
« Last Edit: 2013-08-21 12:19:04 by InuRa »

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1921 on: 2013-08-21 12:21:06 »
The difference there is that the ffs that followed also stuck to the Japanese, so it was an improvement and correction.  There's no real reason to change "Blizzaga" (for example) to Blizzard III.  Blizzaga is how it is written, and it makes FF unique.  Some will agree with you, some won't.  I don't :P

As for limiting improvement... I am happy with the blue and orange entries.  I've gone over them so many times and discussed them at length.  So unless there is a genuine correction, and not just a personal preference, they can't be changed.  The entries in green and red, however, are those that I am not sure about.  Also, note that I still have to look at the enemy moves, so things like "Smoke Bullet" etc are always subject to tweaking.  That particular entry is marked in red on the document.

It isn't about limiting improvement... as far as I am concerned, it's pretty much finalised and I am happy with it. Any improvements to it are basically one person's preference over someone else's.  If I changed what you suggest, I'd just get another person later in the month who'd take the opposite view.  At some stage I have to say no more, and this is that stage with many of those entries.  :)

What I really need to know is what the red entries are.  :-D
« Last Edit: 2013-08-21 12:36:13 by DLPB »

knightsoftheround

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1922 on: 2013-08-24 10:34:58 »
Hey Dan, you mentioned Wallstreet in response to someone not liking a name or something a bit back. Is that basically a mod that lets one edit the text and is compatible with the Reunion?

DLPB_

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1923 on: 2013-08-24 23:31:55 »
Wallmarket is a tool for changing text etc by NFITC.  If you are only changing text, then touphScript is best for that.

knightsoftheround

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Re: The Reunion [IN PROGRESS]
« Reply #1924 on: 2013-08-25 01:32:37 »
Cool, thanks! :D