Author Topic: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?  (Read 21920 times)

NFITC1

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #25 on: 2011-04-11 18:03:12 »
riiiiiiight. I forgot the GF part. Other than that, you can't name anyone else besides Squall, Rinoa, and Angelo.

Griever would like a word or three.

I've played this game through several times and I've never really liked it. I understand the junction system and the drawing, but most of the time attacks took the form of GFs. Their long animations got real old after a while. I thought it was too easy to get to level 100 too. I wasn't crazy about the junction system either. Cast junctioned magic and your stats go down, draw and they go up. It felt pretty easily abuseable.

xLostWingx

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #26 on: 2011-04-11 18:42:15 »
It was easily abused, the funny part is that it took very little to OP any single character.  Hp Junction + Vit Junction, now you're character will never die and you can spam Renzokuken/Dual.  Str junction, now you kill things with 1 hit.  I liked to play with the system, but the strength of the enemies was just absurbly low.  Why bother Junctioning when a Funguar only has 300 HP?!  The first time through the game I just spammed summons and never really had any problems.  I'd have to say that VIII, while good, could have been much much better.

Bosola

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #27 on: 2011-04-11 19:10:59 »
I like Final Fantasy VIII, because the junction / enemy level system punishes stupidity with extreme violence.

Like me.

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These people probably tried to play MGS the same way that they played Duke Nukem and then complained that the alarms went off too often.

...This was actually a real criticism of one of the first stealth FPSes, System Shock. That said, I remember being about twelve, and not really understanding why I couldn't kill enemies by punching them to death. I guess I was just so used to the simple conventions of PSOne third-person action games I just couldn't grasp the idea of non-lethal aggression.
« Last Edit: 2011-04-11 19:12:35 by Bosola »

DLPB_

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #28 on: 2011-04-11 22:03:27 »
Griever would like a word or three.

I've played this game through several times and I've never really liked it. I understand the junction system and the drawing, but most of the time attacks took the form of GFs. Their long animations got real old after a while. I thought it was too easy to get to level 100 too. I wasn't crazy about the junction system either. Cast junctioned magic and your stats go down, draw and they go up. It felt pretty easily abuseable.

All of that is a problem with the implementation and not the system.  if we want to criticise 8 then we have to criticise 7 on the same basis.  Ridiculously easy and not implemented well at all.  The systems themselves are great and if you choose not to abuse their limitations, you will have more fun.

Beating omega weapon properly and collecting all cards and doing all side quests etc, is definitely not easy in 8
« Last Edit: 2011-04-11 22:25:37 by DLPB »

obesebear

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #29 on: 2011-04-12 01:04:52 »
That said, I remember being about twelve, and not really understanding why I couldn't kill enemies by punching them to death. I guess I was just so used to the simple conventions of PSOne third-person action games I just couldn't grasp the idea of non-lethal aggression.
This!  Sweet Jesus I thought I was the only one, and have never before admitted to is.  It literally took at least 7-12 tries before I figured out what the hell I was supposed to do.  It could be due, in part, to the fact I was playing it in Toys R Us with no instruction manual, but the point still stands.

/offtopic

I'm not sure why I play FF8 and FF9, I never end up beating them or enjoying them all that much, but they are just good enough to keep drawing me back in for another try. 

/nostalgia goggles

Prince Lex

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #30 on: 2011-04-12 01:11:58 »
I very much enjoyed playing through FFVIII when it came out, and I still do with the enhancements offered here. Haven't played in a while though.

I thought it had a great story with some good twists as well as good systems that were really customisable based on how you wanted to play the game. This forum has really enhanced my enjoyment of VII and VIII; I just wish that IX was also released for PC because it's the only one I can't replay in HD without an emulator (ePSXe bugs me). I can't stand looking at PSX era games on my PS3, the upscaling is horrible. If they implemented trophy support I probably wouldn't care though, three very easy Platinums!

sutebenu

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #31 on: 2011-04-19 22:27:06 »
I'm one of the few people who forgive FF8 for its storyline. I actually like it. Heck, it's better than FF1's, FF2's, FF3's, FF5's, FF12's and FF13's - and maybe even FF6's IMO.
Well, in all technicality; Final Fantasy VII's storyline is a near copy-paste of FFVI's.

Ex-member of evil organization (empire) that is trying to take over the world
Member of said org. wants to become a god
main char. works for rebel force
organization fails
World threatened (FFVI's world actually destroyed)
Killing villain saves world (for different reasons, Kefka's corruption and Sephiroth's will)

In fact both villains are only villains because of a mental breakdown; one from discovering that he is a monster (due to experiments)
and another had a mental breakdown (cracked sanity) due to an experiment to make him into a weapon.

In all honesty, the fight of Bizzaro Sephiroth looks like the Tower of Kefka fight right before his angelic version, which you go into an Angelic version of Sephiroth as well.

Don't get me wrong, FFVII is no less in my eyes but the similarities of the main plot points and character points is remarkable, especially since they are the only ones that have those similarities.

DLPB_

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #32 on: 2011-04-20 02:35:52 »
VII's plot is much more than Vi.

Armorvil

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #33 on: 2011-04-20 21:02:47 »
Even being the FFVI fanboy I am, I have to second DLPB on this.

Quote
Ex-member of evil organization (empire) that is trying to take over the world
Member of said org. wants to become a god
main char. works for rebel force
organization fails
World threatened (FFVI's world actually destroyed)
Killing villain saves world (for different reasons, Kefka's corruption and Sephiroth's will)

Congrats, you almost described all FFs :D (FF2, FF4, FF6, FF7, FF8, FF9 & FF12 for sure - and arguably FF5, FF10 & FF13) :

IE, bad guy linked to evil organisation wants to gain power to do evil deeds, hero part of rebel force, and things go bad until you finally defeat the final boss and restore peace. But fortunately, Final Fantasy stories are more than just that.
« Last Edit: 2011-04-20 21:10:58 by Armorvil »

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #34 on: 2011-04-20 23:08:51 »
Well, in all technicality; Final Fantasy VII's storyline is a near copy-paste of FFVI's.

Ex-member of evil organization (empire) that is trying to take over the world
Member of said org. wants to become a god
main char. works for rebel force
organization fails
World threatened (FFVI's world actually destroyed)
Killing villain saves world (for different reasons, Kefka's corruption and Sephiroth's will)

In fact both villains are only villains because of a mental breakdown; one from discovering that he is a monster (due to experiments)
and another had a mental breakdown (cracked sanity) due to an experiment to make him into a weapon.

In all honesty, the fight of Bizzaro Sephiroth looks like the Tower of Kefka fight right before his angelic version, which you go into an Angelic version of Sephiroth as well.

Don't get me wrong, FFVII is no less in my eyes but the similarities of the main plot points and character points is remarkable, especially since they are the only ones that have those similarities.

Classic FF6 fanboy behaviour, singling FF7 out for doing what every single FF does.

You're also wrong that it's a copy paste. Playing FF6 is like finding Tolkein's first draft of LotR. You can see all the basic ideas in there, but they're all much less well developed. Just take the mental breakdowns of Kefka and Sephiroth, which you drew attention to. FF6 used the cop-out of having Kefka go mad because lol magic poisoning his brain. FF7 took the much more satisfying, but harder to execute, route of driving him insane through a dramatic revelation. Or look at how Sephiroth controls Cloud and compare it to how Kefka controls Terra; lol magic hat! ;D

FF7 has a lot of things in common with FF6, yes. But FF7 is a lot more mature from a literary perspective. FF6 uses very cheap and unsatisfying explanations for what's going on: Kefka kills people because he's crazy, and he's crazy because magitek melted his brain. Kefka controls Terra with a magic hat. No more explanation needed. FF7 has a go at giving more detailed explanations for what's going on and more complex motivations for the characters.
« Last Edit: 2011-04-20 23:12:50 by Kudistos Megistos »

Covarr

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #35 on: 2011-04-21 00:46:28 »
Some people try to pass off FF6's failings as superiorities, and it drives me crazy. They say Kefka is a better villain because he didn't need a reason, he was just crazy. No, that just makes him an underdeveloped villain. The fact is, he's really no better than the villain from Dungeons & Dragons: evil because he's the bad guy and that's his place in the story. He does horrible things, and his only apparent motivation is that the writers want to make sure you know he's the bad guy.

This isn't to say FF6 is the only game with this problem. FFIV had it in spades. The difference is, FFIV doesn't try to hide it, and more than makes up with it through some of the best hero development I've ever seen in a game.

BloodShot

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #36 on: 2011-04-21 03:02:05 »
/\ I just got 4 for my psp, and now I have more reason to play it.

Should I play 6 as well?

Covarr

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #37 on: 2011-04-21 04:47:40 »
/\ I just got 4 for my psp, and now I have more reason to play it.

Should I play 6 as well?
Yes. While many of us will argue against it when it's compared to FF7, it is still a very good game.

DLPB_

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #38 on: 2011-04-21 06:56:53 »
Some people try to pass off FF6's failings as superiorities, and it drives me crazy. They say Kefka is a better villain because he didn't need a reason, he was just crazy. No, that just makes him an underdeveloped villain. The fact is, he's really no better than the villain from Dungeons & Dragons: evil because he's the bad guy and that's his place in the story. He does horrible things, and his only apparent motivation is that the writers want to make sure you know he's the bad guy.

This isn't to say FF6 is the only game with this problem. FFIV had it in spades. The difference is, FFIV doesn't try to hide it, and more than makes up with it through some of the best hero development I've ever seen in a game.

I have heard all that too and it is so desperate and frustrating.  It is generally the same with everything.  Like with ff13, they say it is great that your control was minimised or that traditional towns "that got in the way of the action" have been almost eradicated. 

FF6 had a very basic plot but let's remember what console it was on.  For its time it was an amazing game but people need to take off the blinkers.  Story wise compared to VII it just doesn't rate, and as kud said, that is wholly demonstrable in terms of dialogue and complexity.  People like to make excuses for things when they have nowhere else to run.

kefka is mad... because he is.  Someone is in love... because they are.

There is no way around it.

 I was bored out of my mind with FF6's story to be frank (and all the while what faith I had in reviews was dwindling to nothing), and the reason I finished the game was because the music and gameplay were up to the standard.  The FMV added later for PSX were good too.

« Last Edit: 2011-04-21 07:14:55 by DLPB »

Armorvil

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #39 on: 2011-04-21 09:52:22 »
lol, I had the opposite experience with FF6 and FF7. Played FF6 first (it was my first FF actually), and after playing through FF7 for the first time, I ended up being disappointed somehow. I felt it was lacking, in the gameplay department. Where were my 4 character teams, my multi-party dungeons, my Tools, Blitz, Runic, Rages, my item trade system called the Colosseum, my Merit Award, my Cursed Shield, ... ?

Plus, there was no second world map to freely explore, musics for the most part were midi-quality, and you couldn't remove Cloud from the party. All this (and I forget some) led me to feel that FF7 was just a downgraded FF6. It was only years later, and after FF8's and FF9's release maybe, that I finally could enjoy FF7 for what it is. But I still feel FF7 is lacking in the gameplay department, and this is why I've been working on a FF7 mod for so long.

The funny thing is, I can't play FF6 nowadays. I don't know if it's because I played it too many times in the past, but its battle mechanics, its story and even its graphics & musics bore the hell out of me. Also, Esper learning sucks balls, and stats are badly designed (Stamina, Vigor and Speed are useless compared to Magic Power).

And strangely enough, even though I played FF7 just as much, I don't see myself getting bored of it anytime soon. And to go back on topic, FF8 also feels like a downgraded FF6 to me, but without FF7's redeeming qualities.
« Last Edit: 2011-04-21 10:00:41 by Armorvil »

DLPB_

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #40 on: 2011-04-21 10:49:11 »
Are you joking?  Lacking in game play?

-Minigames:  Bike, sub, snowboard for starter.  3 major minigames that 6 doesn't have of ANY kind
-Materia system, and finding materias.  Each with a new ability that you can even get working with extra effects.  Mastering materia.
-Super bosses
-ultimate weapons (like venus gospel)
-Breeding chocobos
-Chocobo racing
- Fort Condor mini game
- Enemy Skills
- Mansion safe
-Riding train, secret codes, huge materia
-Wallmarket and honeybee manor
- Battle Arena
- Roller coaster mini game
- Wutai side quest


What exactly does VI have compared to that?   It has nothing of the sort like it.  It is just grind and find with VI, something every RPG does.

Armorvil

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #41 on: 2011-04-21 12:57:45 »
-Minigames:  Bike, sub, snowboard for starter.  3 major minigames that 6 doesn't have of ANY kind

My bad, I meant RPG gameplay.

Quote
-Materia system, and finding materias.  Each with a new ability that you can even get working with extra effects.  Mastering materia.

To which FFVI would reply : Magicite system and finding Espers. Each with magics to learn, a special attack unique to each Magicite, and stat bonuses at level up. I agree, though, that the Materia system is much more interesting than the Magicite one.

Quote
-Super bosses

In FFVI, and especially FFVI Advance, you got many optional dungeons and bosses in the World of Ruin. In the original, you still have Doom Gaze, Atma, the Brachosaur in the dinosaur forest, and the 8 Dragons. I admit they're not as interesting to beat as Ruby or Emerald, but there are more bosses throughout the course of the game.

Quote
-ultimate weapons (like venus gospel)

Atma/Ultima Weapon, the Illumina/Lightbringer, the Valiant Knife, the Stunner, the Pearl or Aura Lance, the Scimitar, the Fixed Dice, (etc.) all say hi. And this is without counting the new weapons from FFVIa.

Quote
-Breeding chocobos
-Chocobo racing
- Fort Condor mini game

This goes in my above point about non-RPG gameplay features. Plus, the Fort Condor mini game is expensive, and given the crappy awards, is entirely useless.

Quote
- Enemy Skills

FFVI has three kinds of Enemy skills : Strago's Lores / Blue Magics, Mog's Dances, and Gau's Rages. Gau's Rages are even a game inside the game.

Quote
- Mansion safe

One optional boss leading to a secret character ? FFVI has that, too.

Quote
-Riding train, secret codes, huge materia

Riding train ? You must be thinking about FFVIII. Or if you're thinking about timed events, FFVI has some too. And FFVI also has secret codes (like figuring out the time in Zozo). Are we gonna list every little thing like this ?

Quote
-Wallmarket and honeybee manor

Imperial Banquet and Imperial Base ? The wounded soldier in Mobliz ?... ...come on now, this is getting a little ridiculous.

Quote
- Battle Arena

Colosseum !

Quote
- Roller coaster mini game

My point 1.

Quote
- Wutai side quest

Narshe's sidequest ? Ancient Castle ? Cyan's Dreams ? Ebot's Rock ? Gogo's Den ?

Quote
What exactly does VI have compared to that?   It has nothing of the sort like it.

Yup, nothing at all obviously.

Quote
It is just grind and find with VI, something every RPG does.

Sounds like RPGs aren't your thing then, if, for example, you prefer to play snowboard, Road Rash or a chocobo race. The fact is that FFVI has more diversity in its cast (14 characters versus 9), with unique abilities and desperation attacks, and more diversity in the equipments. In FFVII, weapons and armors are just upgrades of previous ones, with rare exceptions. More power, more materia slots, and that's all. In FFVI, you can equip boomerangs, daggers, swords, katanas, brushes, spears, ninja knives, claws, staves, shields, helms, hats, clothes, armors and relics - while in FFVII you can't make Cloud use a spear, and are limited to an armlet and an accessory.

This is, among other things I already listed in my previous post, what I mean by more gameplay. Gosh, I can't believe I had to defend FFVI when I stated in my above post that I prefer FFVII these days. FFVII's snowboarding is nice and a fresh distraction of course, but if I want to play snowboard, I boot up Cool Boarders or something, not a RPG.
« Last Edit: 2011-04-21 13:12:01 by Armorvil »

DLPB_

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #42 on: 2011-04-21 16:30:18 »
No in VII there are lots of little things going on:

Resuscitating Priscilla, driving the train to stop ir crashing, punching in codes, junon tv ratings march.  Things that brighten up the game.  In VI it is all grind and grind more.  It isn't anywhere near the same level.

Armorvil

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #43 on: 2011-04-21 16:44:55 »
I don't know about you, but when I decide to play FFVII, it's not because I look forward to reviving Priscilla (on the contrary, I can't help but sigh the whole process), to punch in various codes, or to participate in the Junon march.

I'm not saying it doesn't brighten up the game, as you say, but the main gameplay element still is the battle system and everything that revolves around it (leveling up, materia, equipment, the party members, the "dungeons", etc). And on that point, FFVI has more meat on the bones.

FFVII beats FFVI on the Materia and Limit Break systems, while VI beats VII on all the other battle-related subjects. For example, you don't have a boss that requires you to kill your own party members to be defeated, in FFVII. It's almost always the basic "deal damage and heal when necessary" from beginning to end.

I admit though, that all the little things you list perhaps contribute to make a richer gaming experience overall, and this may be why I like FF7 better now. True, FF6 shoves its battle system down our throats a little too much. It didn't bother me 10 years ago, but now it does.

EDIT:

Just remembered about the status effects, too. FFVI has many more. You have the "No MP=Death" status, the "human" status (some weapons deal double damage to humans), Float, Zombie, MagiTek (sorta), Image, Clear, Freeze, Life3, and Terra's Morph status. And most don't go away after a battle.

You also have weapons that cast magic spells when used as items or when using the Fight command, randomly thrown weapons (that you don't lose once thrown ^^), accessories that cast Safe, Shell or both when your HP is low, the Genji Glove that allows you to dualwield or the Gauntlet that allows you to hold a weapon with both hands, the Jump command, a powerful weapon that might break after each use, Golem's Earth Wall effect, 1000 Needles, the Dischord spell that halves the target's level, the Rippler spell that exchanges statuses, enemies that alter their elemental reactions thanks to the WallChange spell, the ForceField that eliminates one random element from the battlefield, and the Quick & X-Zone magics.

Sadly, FFVII doesn't have all that. Hence why I felt -with good reasons- that it is a downgraded FFVI. My dream would be to insert all these features back into FFVII  :D
« Last Edit: 2011-04-21 18:41:18 by Armorvil »

xLostWingx

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #44 on: 2011-04-21 19:23:03 »
Mods yay!

That is all.

BlitzNCS

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #45 on: 2011-04-21 19:46:38 »
You don't have a boss that requires you to kill your own party members to be defeated, in FFVII.

TL;DR rest of post/thread, but doesn't ruby weapon count as one of those?

DLPB_

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #46 on: 2011-04-21 19:59:19 »
TL;DR rest of post/thread, but doesn't ruby weapon count as one of those?

Why is that even a talking point :P

Armorvil

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #47 on: 2011-04-21 20:14:44 »
 :-[

DarkFang

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #48 on: 2011-04-21 20:15:48 »
Mods yay!

That is all.
This.

But you can mod VI too so, whatever. :p

Armorvil

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Re: Final Fantasy VIII - opinions?
« Reply #49 on: 2011-04-21 22:19:01 »
The funny thing in the Wrexsoul battle though, is that you need to kill the "right" party member during the battle, for the boss to appear (as opposed to having to kill your party members before the boss fight, in Ruby's case). It should be doable through AI editing in FFVII, but don't ask me how (Bosola, NFITC1, Gjoerulv or Titeguy might know, though).