Author Topic: Osama bin Laden is dead?!  (Read 10259 times)

DLPB_

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #25 on: 2011-05-03 13:31:43 »
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You and DLPB. This quote proves how ignorant and backward you are. Do you really think that killing these people will solve anything?

I think, given the level of that foaming at the mouth emotional outburst, you are a devout religionist- possibly Muslim.  But that changes nothing.  Islam especially is responsible for the massive majority of death today because it inspires death with its holy book and all through its history to the present day it has raised fearless warriors who will die for their cause in the belief they are going to heaven with a ton of virgins.  Christianity adapted and people moved on, but Islam remains as deadly as ever.

It is not backward to suggest that killing people ends a struggle.  Indeed, you may remember how Nazism was defeated and let me give you a clue: it wasn't by talking nicely to Hitler.

On the other hand, Nazism was a much more localised belief system and did not have the same pull as a religion.  Islam is worse than Nazism because it rewards death and it promises bliss for believers.  It is also widespread.  I don't want to kill innocent muslims or want innocent people to die.  However, I do want the likes of Osama dead yes, and I do want Islam to be resigned to the dust bin of history.

In fact I want all religions resigned to the dust bin, but Islam is the worst of the bunch by far and is a deadly, backward ideology.  It is a plague of modern of times and before you come back calling me racist, let me remind you that Islam is a belief system and ideology, NOT a race.

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If Islam were the root cause of the problem, then we'd be lucky to find a single likable good-natured Muslim out there.

No that isn't how it works.  Obviously a lot of Muslims (a majority) are not going to take the more deadly passages seriously.  However, it can be no surprise that nearly all terrorists are Muslim and that nearly all Muslim countries have some sort of social or economic problem.  Anywhere this religion goes it breeds chaos.  Ivory coast is the latest in a LONG line. 

The Nazi followers probably had many decent people among their ranks who would not kill a living thing, but that didn't make any difference.  Most Muslims do not wage war or blow themselves up, but their holy book is not like the bible and is in fact a lot worse.  This is why there are more Muslim problems around the world than ANY other religious group.

If Islam did not exist, America would not have been attacked.  The holy book gives reward and justification for jihad.  The religion IS the root cause.

Just read this:

Qur'an 5:17    "Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, 'The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.'"

Qur'an 5:51    "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other."

Qur'an 5:72    "They are surely infidels who blaspheme and say: 'God is Christ, the Messiah, the son of Mary.' But the Messiah only said: 'O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.'"

Qur'an 72:15    "But the Qasitun (disbelievers) are the firewood of hell."

Qur'an 2:61    "Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped on the Jews and they were visited with Allah's wrath."

Ishaq:240    "The Jews are a nation of liars.... The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people."

Ishaq:250    "The bestial transformation occurred when Allah turned Jews into apes, despised."

Qur'an 59:14    "The Jews are devoid of sense. There is a grievous punishment awaiting them. Satan tells them not to believe so they will end up in Hell."

http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes_Jews.Islam

It goes on and on and on and on.  It is not hard to see where the problem is coming from.

The apologists for Islam like to bring up bible passages, but the vast majority are in a few books of the old testament and are not literal instructions or aimed at any race.  The koran and surra and other teachings are AIMED at JEWS and Christians.  They are specific quotes against a section of people.  It is also 1 man who is instructing, it is not a parable or a story or a book.  The Koran and teachings are rigid and to the point and are often impossible to take non literally.

Many Korans have to come with notation next to all these quotes to try and dispel them or tone them down, but they exist and that's why the Koran is such a good recruiting Sargent. 

There will never be peace between Jews, non believers and Christians while the Koran remains in its unaltered state.

Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.


« Last Edit: 2011-05-03 14:43:03 by DLPB »

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #26 on: 2011-05-03 17:37:29 »
GOD DAMMIT! from what I've read some of you are completely retarded. To kill people because of what they believe in is horrible beyond recognition. Rather, we need to destroy the people responsible for this radical action. I'm atheist, though I have read both the Koran and the bible. No where in the Koran does it state that it is okay to kill someone because of what they believe in. It was manipulative bastards like Osama that disgraced it and used random ass quotes and things that make no sense to convince uneducated people to commit these crimes. I am sick of this. My aunt is muslim, and she is one of the nicest people in the world. so, are you people going to keep acting like uneducated 12 year olds, or, even worse, uneducated seniors? or are you actually going to do your research and start thinking for yourself, rather than what Fox news tells you to believe?It's obvious the people who need to go are the people who manipulate the lower class, people like Osama, not people who follow a religion for all the right reasons(as an atheist, I consider religion stupid, but I really couldn't care less if you followed one). Same goes for our side of the world. My point being, stop acting like this! In considering completely destroying Islamic religions, you sink to the level of Hitler, A GENOCIDAL MANIAC! Many of you need to grow up.

and to you, obesebear, you are the worst of all. You and DLPB. This quote proves how ignorant and backward you are. Do you really think that killing these people will solve anything? Do you really think you can erase history? No, knowledge stays. Would you kill the innocent, who have done nothing wrong their entire lives, because they simply believe in something you don't understand? You are just as bad as Hitler, because you know what you're considering? Genocide. You bastards.

Please, please, please be trolling. Please. I couldn't take it if someone actually believed this nonsense.

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Astonishingly, the Daily Express had the best front page today:



Mako

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #27 on: 2011-05-03 18:39:18 »
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Do you really think that killing these people will solve anything?


No, But it increases the US moral! Thats reason enough for me.

Jaitsu

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #28 on: 2011-05-03 18:41:09 »
GOD DAMMIT! from what I've read some of you are completely retarded. To kill people because of what they believe in is horrible beyond recognition. Rather, we need to destroy the people responsible for this radical action. I'm atheist, though I have read both the Koran and the bible. No where in the Koran does it state that it is okay to kill someone because of what they believe in. It was manipulative bastards like Osama that disgraced it and used random ass quotes and things that make no sense to convince uneducated people to commit these crimes. I am sick of this. My aunt is muslim, and she is one of the nicest people in the world. so, are you people going to keep acting like uneducated 12 year olds, or, even worse, uneducated seniors? or are you actually going to do your research and start thinking for yourself, rather than what Fox news tells you to believe?It's obvious the people who need to go are the people who manipulate the lower class, people like Osama, not people who follow a religion for all the right reasons(as an atheist, I consider religion stupid, but I really couldn't care less if you followed one). Same goes for our side of the world. My point being, stop acting like this! In considering completely destroying Islamic religions, you sink to the level of Hitler, A GENOCIDAL MANIAC! Many of you need to grow up.

and to you, obesebear, you are the worst of all. You and DLPB. This quote proves how ignorant and backward you are. Do you really think that killing these people will solve anything? Do you really think you can erase history? No, knowledge stays. Would you kill the innocent, who have done nothing wrong their entire lives, because they simply believe in something you don't understand? You are just as bad as Hitler, because you know what you're considering? Genocide. You bastards.

my god if i were a mod i'd have banned you already for showing such disrespect to the people here.

and if your trolling its one thing but please PPPLLEEEAAASEE don't tell me your actually this self-righteous.

obesebear

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Oh, lol
« Reply #29 on: 2011-05-04 02:29:00 »
and to you, obesebear, you are the worst of all. You and DLPB. This quote proves how ignorant and backward you are. Do you really think that killing these people will solve anything? Do you really think you can erase history? No, knowledge stays. Would you kill the innocent, who have done nothing wrong their entire lives, because they simply believe in something you don't understand? You are just as bad as Hitler, because you know what you're considering? Genocide. You bastards.
Thank you, thank you.  First I would like to think all the people who made this ridiculous outburst possible.  God, my parents, my teachers in grade school who enabled me to learn basic English while also teaching how to discern implications in sentences.

Seriously dude, you might need some help if you're always so apt to have your emotions control you.

Also, I only wish I could be half the man Hitler was.

Kemlin

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #30 on: 2011-05-04 03:36:27 »
It won't be hard, if you have more than one testicle.

DLPB_

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #31 on: 2011-05-04 03:48:26 »
So he is twice the man?  :o

NFITC1

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #32 on: 2011-05-04 03:52:00 »
To kill people because of what they believe in is horrible beyond recognition. Rather, we need to destroy the people responsible for this radical action.
No, the sensible solution is just to discredit them. Now you're the one advocating murder.

 
I'm atheist, though I have read both the Koran and the bible. No where in the Koran does it state that it is okay to kill someone because of what they believe in. It was manipulative bastards like Osama that disgraced it and used random ass quotes and things that make no sense to convince uneducated people to commit these crimes.

Seems to me you weren't paying attention to either. There are LOTS of stories in the Bible where God tells the Israelites to kill men, women, children and even livestock of their enemies.

 
I am sick of this. My aunt is muslim, and she is one of the nicest people in the world.

To YOU, perhaps. I doubt the entire world would think she is. This is your opinion of her based on what you've seen of her. Being "nice" isn't immunity from being dangerous (not necessarily that your aunt is).

and to you, obesebear, you are the worst of all. You and DLPB. This quote proves how ignorant and backward you are. Do you really think that killing these people will solve anything? Do you really think you can erase history? No, knowledge stays. Would you kill the innocent, who have done nothing wrong their entire lives, because they simply believe in something you don't understand? You are just as bad as Hitler, because you know what you're considering? Genocide. You bastards.

"Chop off the head and the body dies." It's a widely-used military stratagem. That's not advocating en masse killings.

Bosola

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #33 on: 2011-05-04 10:19:00 »
However, it can be no surprise that nearly all terrorists are Muslim

Only in more recent years, though. Don't forget the Irish terrorists.

My instinct has always been that people go to war because of material circumstances rather than ideologies. Folks in educated, well-off nations are pretty good at disavowing portions of their scriptures and edicts, and in any case, even without a religious ideology, people in poor economic circumstances get violent quickly.
« Last Edit: 2011-05-04 10:22:45 by Bosola »

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #34 on: 2011-05-04 14:32:27 »
Only in more recent years, though. Don't forget the Irish terrorists.

My instinct has always been that people go to war because of material circumstances rather than ideologies. Folks in educated, well-off nations are pretty good at disavowing portions of their scriptures and edicts, and in any case, even without a religious ideology, people in poor economic circumstances get violent quickly.

Except there are poorer places than the middle east and the Muslim majority parts of south Asia. Although it is true that there is a correlation between poverty in a region and violence, it is not enough to fully explain the situation we see in the aforementioned places.

It is also the case that many of the extremists are well off. In Europe, Islamic extremism is closely associated with university education and middle class backgrounds.

DLPB_

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #35 on: 2011-05-04 15:22:26 »
And Islam has had cut throat warriors all through the ages... whereas other religions became more tolerant and less violent.  Islam has always been the same

drfeelgud88

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #36 on: 2011-05-05 05:43:33 »
and to you, obesebear, you are the worst of all. You and DLPB. This quote proves how ignorant and backward you are. Do you really think that killing these people will solve anything? Do you really think you can erase history? No, knowledge stays. Would you kill the innocent, who have done nothing wrong their entire lives, because they simply believe in something you don't understand? You are just as bad as Hitler, because you know what you're considering? Genocide. You bastards.
What's wrong with you? Isn't it ignorant to refer to someone as ignorant just based on a sentence that you obviously did not comprehend correctly?

How the hell would you feel if your home was bombed? Would you still say "I must not fight I must not fight I must not fight because it will not solve anything. I'll just sit around, bite my tongue, and endure all the destruction heading towards me." Obesebear has served (or is?) his country, so he obviously knows more than I on this particular matter. I'm sure as heck he knows more than what you manage to conjure up with.

I believe, that you believe in the "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" type of thing. I respect that quote, but that is only to a certain extent man get with the program!!

Oh and fyi, he didn't mean the Islamic religion. He meant the Al-Qaeda terrorist group. Who's ignorant now...
« Last Edit: 2011-05-05 05:48:16 by drfeelgud88 »

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #37 on: 2011-05-05 08:46:43 »
I think that guy has received enough responses now.  He's been active since posting that, so he's probably seen some of the posts afterwards, but he hasn't responded.  Let's drop it.

DarkFang

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #38 on: 2011-05-05 19:52:46 »
I think that guy has received enough responses now.  He's been active since posting that, so he's probably seen some of the posts afterwards, but he hasn't responded.  Let's drop it.
This was more of a general discussion rather than me wanting an answer.

The Seer of Shadows

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #39 on: 2011-05-06 00:36:10 »
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about the guy drfeelgud88 (and many other posters, myself included) quoted/responded to.  I'm not saying "kill the thread", I'm saying forget about megaknight's post.

Jenova's Witness

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« Reply #40 on: 2011-05-06 16:25:46 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 11:21:47 by Jenova's Witness »

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #41 on: 2011-05-06 20:16:38 »
When I mentioned this idea to an academic, they called it teleology and then tuned me out.  I can't quite figure out what the hell that means; wikipedia isn't helping.  There isn't a single sentence which clearly states what teleology is in the entire article.  Apparently none of the English majors don't hang out with Philosophy majors, at least not with the ones who edit wikipedia.

He probably meant that you were looking at the result and inferring causes from it: you were talking about Islamic history as if all the things that happened over the generations were put into place so that a certain goal would be reached. He was saying that you were looking at things with too much hindsight and this hindsight was influencing your interpretation too much. Hindsight can be a dangerous enemy when you're looking at the past.

I think you're also forgetting one of the other major factors in the Arab expansion: the rest of the world was such a mess.

After the fall of the European classical civilisations, civilisations whose empires spread as far as north Africa and north-Western India, there was a power vacuum. Any large and vaguely organised empire would have been able to dominate the world west of the Ganges (China was the only other powerful empire, and they were too far away to be of any interest). Europe didn't get back on its feet until the Renaissance, and when that happened, the tide quickly started to turn.

The Arab and Ottoman empires rose to power not because of any great qualities that were later lost, but because there was no-one big or organised enough to stop them. Certainly not the Europeans, who were divided up into countless tiny states and spent all their time fighting each other over pointless crap and having schisms. Only England and France would have been sufficiently organised to mount any opposition, and they never needed to because they were so far to the north-west.

Jenova's Witness

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« Reply #42 on: 2011-05-06 20:37:34 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 11:19:23 by Jenova's Witness »

Kudistos Megistos

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Re: Osama bin Laden is dead?!
« Reply #43 on: 2011-05-06 20:53:12 »
Why was Europe such a mess?  I heard an argument that Rome declined in three phases: first when it degenerated from republic to empire,  again when Christianity became the norm for the ruling class, and lastly when East and West split in two.  The guy who made this argument said that the newly powerful Christians drove the pagans out and, in doing so, deprived their nation of it's classically educated classes.  So where did these people go?  Many of them were killed, but he guessed that they went east to Byzantium and to the (I'm not gonna try to spell what he said) rival empire in what's now Iran.

Sounds like a questionable theory of Rome's decline to me, but I'll answer your question about where all the classically educated people went: a few of them fled to Byzantium, but most just died of old age and no-one replaced them.

Europe was a mess because of the power vacuum; where there had been strong leadership in the past, there were now various tribes running rampant all over the continent and warlords replaced emperors. There was no longer much of an educational system, so scholarship, and particularly secular scholarship, declined. Calling it the "dark ages" is a bit of an exaggeration, since there were still literate people around, but literacy was greatly reduced, kingdoms were small and the lifestyle for the average person was much like it was before the Romans or Greeks came, except they had a different religion. Since there was a power vacuum and the continent was unsafe and unstable, the economy was a mess too. It's much harder to do trade and grow a business in tribal societies. Roads aren't looked after, there's less law and order so you have a bigger chance of being robbed and there were probably problems with currencies too. During the Roman empire, inflation was low and everyone used the same coins.