Author Topic: [FF7PC-98] Beacause - FF7 Retranslation (Merged into Reunion, use that instead)  (Read 228191 times)

Antonia

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Yup, we use arse!  I have no idea why we differ there with America  ;D

Me either, but I find it a shame.  I always thought arse worked better somehow, but if I say it that way I tend to get weird looks.


I am not getting censored, so I suppose there is an option somewhere to disable it?  Check your options.

Top Commands: Profile > (Select either Account Settings or Forum Profile).  Once there, a second line of top commands will pop up.  From those, select Modify Profile > Look and Layout

Down around the sixth tick box or so is an option to Leave Words Uncensored.  Tick that, save via the Change Profile button near the bottom right.

Should fix it up.

Back more to the topic...
I have arseholes, bastards, scum [rearranged sentence], murderers.  Can't remember any others but as you can see that's rather limited.  I wonder how it works in real life. I guess people just repeat the same stuff but don't realise it?

In general, I find most people do tend to be fairly repetitive in their trends where obscenities are concerned.  We don't tend to notice it nearly so much, because it's not too often that someone will repeat the same thing again and again within a given time frame.  Occasionally though, you'll run into someone who does, say after they've had one or two too many in the pub, and if you listen to them, they'll often just use the same words and phrases over and over.

I'd say go ahead and just fill in what seems to "feel best" for now, and wait until it actually reads out as people play through.  If things start feeling too repetitive, it should be pretty easy to make a few amendments then.  It's probably far more noticeable for you than it would be in play, simply because you've got to sift through all these instances more or less all at once.

In reference to the star/planet thing...  I'd tend to agree you're on the right track there, and (to me) celestial scream already sounds much better.  Though this is purely my opinion and speculation, as I haven't played the game in Japanese, nor can I read kanji, sadly.  :(
« Last Edit: 2012-08-12 00:59:04 by Antonia »

DLPB

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Luksy mentioned "Cosmic Scream"  this may work even better than mine.

Let's take a vote!  Unless someone has any other ideas?

Cosmic Scream or Celestial Scream, noting of course that we are talking about "heavenly bodies" like planets, moons, suns, and meteors.

(also in other news, I found a spelling mistake I had made in highwind dialogue...  "dieing"  DOH!)
« Last Edit: 2012-08-12 01:31:23 by DLPB »

Antonia

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After a bit of thinking it through, I think I like cosmic better there than celestial, though I find either would probably work fine.

I definitely think both of them would be better than star/planet.

Also, it's been a while, so I can't recall the original English translation we were handed for that segment, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming that the code bit above is the direct re-translation from the Japanese? 

Seemed like the first form I saw it in (the "official" English translation) it read more like:
Tifa: A scream from the planet?
...Meteor?

But that's based on memory from quite a ways back...  Either way, where I'm going with this is, I wonder if in the last line, she should perhaps say "the planet" rather than "our planet"?

Seems like from what I remember, most people in the FF7-verse would say 'the' rather than 'our', which also tends to better mirror real life speech here on Earth.  There would certainly be times and context where specifying 'our' might be appropriate, but it seems in general, most people use the perhaps arrogant assumption that 'our' planet is really the only one worth talking about, so 'the' generally suffices and sounds a bit more natural.  Just a thought.  :)

DLPB

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it is that Bugenhagen picks up the "scream".  At first I thought scream was just from their own planet, but Tifa seems to make it clear that Meteor can also have a scream...

It doesn't look as bad in Japanese because the kanji used can be both planet AND star.  And probably has a wider range.   It could also be that it really is "Planet Scream" intended.  We need some conclusion to that question.

Quote
Luke says (03:03):
 星の悲鳴 the planet's scream, Tifa asks whether it's Meteor's or the planets, bugenhagen describes it as a sound that shines in the heavens, and that planets are born and die with this sound
 planets/stars as usual
Daniel says (03:06):
 but it means heavenly bodies?  or is it specific to their planet?
 sounds like this is a "heavenly body" thing
Luke says (03:06):
 nope, unspecific
Daniel says (03:06):
 cool so cosmic is prob best here
 ?
Luke says (03:07):
 I think so yeah
« Last Edit: 2012-08-12 02:09:29 by DLPB »

InuRa

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First let me say I really like the idea of this project, even tho I might not agree with every single point presented, I do with almost all of them.

When it comes to the plot, it really felt like some things didn't link flawlessly so I'm hoping that when this project it's completed, everyone will get the chance to experience a more details and accurate story.
The point I don't agree on, it's basically spell related, like "Poisona", sure, it wasn't 100% accurate, but "Poison Null" doesn't accurately describe what it does either (maybe "Poison Nullifier" or "Antidote" would, but it would not be accurate right?). Also translating the ones that are widespread through the whole series might cause unnecessary confusion, especially to the players whose main language is not English, or still have some troubles with some less common expressions or meanings.
Regarding the most sensitive ones like Moogle and Cactuar... well at this point there is no fighting it anymore, plus it's not like the whole pronunciation was lost.

But; after going through the google docs table\sheet (just a quick look, didn't actually go into much detail at all) I have a few "questions" (or suggestions\fixes?)
One or two might have been answered before, as I didn't read the whole thread, so please ignore that one if that's the case I guess.
(Disclaimer: english is not my main lang. either, so if you see any mistake please cut me some slack :P)



1163   Jammer Armor         Shouldn't it be like this since it's an US translation...?
1832   Double Shield Throw   Keep it like this for consistency with other doubles? Or is it not a double? Don't remember this one and there is no description.
1940   Raise            For consistency with other titles this sounds fair but....
1941   Revive \ Raise II      Again, not sure if this goes with the plan, but it would surely fill the spot well.
1957   Mini               Decreases not only size, but also and atk power, also not to be confused with 2050 or... 2257? Plus it's widespread...
2090   Dexterity            Consistency with other titles, Agility is usually associated with evasion no?
2168   Vegetable Store      Isn't greengrocer not very... "US english".
2199   Please enter a name.   Ponctuation was present in JP.
2267   Damage = Time x 30   Ponctuation was not present in JP and it looks better this way :P

1787-1791   Some have the "from" capitalized, some don't. Consistency? Check 1303 too?

Also, if you're following the Official Establishment Guide, you're gonna have to change Barret to Barett, otherwise you're just contradicting yourselves or opening the possibility of chancing the others back as well except for Aerith. And it's not like english has a different sound for "rr" right?



Had a few more and the usual "Esuna", "Poisona", "Hi-Potion" and stuff, but these are more than enough for now.

Also it would be nice if the document could be expanded to the other "official" languages. It could help them improve their own and also use them to cross-reference the translation (if they were not translated directly from JP that is).
« Last Edit: 2012-08-19 22:04:47 by InuRa »

DLPB

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Well first, thank you for taking an interest in this project.  I should have made a post that we have finished discussing a lot of what you have queried, but you have no way to know that so I will respond to it properly.  I am also recovering from a severe hang over, so forgive me if I sound a little ratty.

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(maybe "Poison Nullifier" or "Antidote" would,

Poison Null is fine, is close to the Japanese, and fits.  Poison Nullifier does not fit and Antidote is an item. I am not changing the names I have for them now...  it is 99% solidified.  The only change I may make here in future would be to call it "Null Poison" or some variant.

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Also translating the ones that are widespread through the whole series might cause unnecessary confusion, especially to the players whose main language is not English, or still have some troubles with some less common expressions or meanings.

Quote
Regarding the most sensitive ones like Moogle and Cactuar... well at this point there is no fighting it anymore, plus it's not like the whole pronunciation was lost.

The installer allows you to keep Moogle and Megalixir etc.  The option is there for the most common so called "canon"


Quote
1163   Jammer Armor         Shouldn't it be like this since it's an US translation...?

It isn't a US translation, it is a UK with the installer allowing you to choose US spellings.
If you chose US spellings and it still said Armour, that is a problem.

Quote
1832   Double Shield Throw   Keep it like this for consistency with other doubles? Or is it not a double? Don't remember this one and there is no description.

This was changed if i recall to "Double Shield"

Quote
2090   Dexterity            Consistency with other titles, Agility is usually associated with evasion no?

No agility is speed, which is what this is.

Quote
2168   Vegetable Store      Isn't greengrocer not very... "US english".

I am not sure...  Does anyone see Greengrocer as non US?

Quote
2199   Please enter a name.   Ponctuation was present in JP.

I got rid of it.  It is not needed there.

Quote
2267   Damage = Time x 30   Ponctuation was not present in JP and it looks better this way :P

This is a SPOKEN sentence, and so has a full stop.

Quote
1787-1791   Some have the "from" capitalized, some don't. Consistency? Check 1303 too?

Yeah that's an error.  I have corrected it.  Thanks :)

Quote
Also, if you're following the Official Establishment Guide, you're gonna have to change Barret to Barett, otherwise you're just contradicting yourselves

I made an exception  here as I feel more sure that this is a mistake with the OEF, just like Leviathan is in there.
We looked carefully at ALL sources and we don't have a rigid "that says it is so it has to be" approach.  The OEF may
still be wrong on a few things but Barrett is nearly always spelled Barrett.  Look on google at people with the name.
Also note that he is likely named after Barrett Firearms.  When looking at it like that, common sense superseded the
OEF.  With written proof of spelling from the writers, this decision can be reversed.

Quote
Also it would be nice if the document could be expanded to the other "official" languages.

I have no interest in other languages, and I don't know other languages.  If people want to take our work, give full credit and translate from our work, I have no issue with it.

The vast majority of things with this translation are not being changed now.  I have gone over everything 10x and I am happy with how it is.  The latest update as part of the Menu Project is a major update on what went before. 
« Last Edit: 2012-08-19 22:55:45 by DLPB »

DLPB

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I will also make a note here.  Queries about non dialogue are no longer supported here unless there is a spelling mistake or grammar mistake. I am happy with the non dialogue and it is unlikely to be changing again.  Dialogue is the order of the day now, and help with that at the end is welcome.  Or corrections to spelling etc up to where we are at.

But non dialogue is now finalised.  There will be no further major changes.

Canon queries are also not supported from here on.  We have made the decisions on what to keep and it is final.  The installer does allow you to keep the original canon names and series canon items and American spellings but that is all.

Any further issues not relating to actual dialogue should only be brought up if there is a spelling or grammar issue.  The only exception to this is corrections to non dialogue listed in red and monsters in red/green.  Those that we are not sure of.
« Last Edit: 2012-08-19 22:49:29 by DLPB »

mugenginga

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Greengrocer is very non-US, at least in my experience with the language. I think I've heard of it in Britain and in less than reliable translations from Japanese (the first Dogz game used it and I would have had no idea what they were talking about without the context.)


DLPB

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I will add the change to US spellings.  8)

mugenginga

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On Cosmic vs Celestial - I'm leaning towards Cosmic.

Celestial does seem a little bit more like it would be more accurate (the term "celestial bodies") but there's a flow factor to consider too. Cosmic Scream /sounds/ better to me, and they also feel fairly close on meaning.

I think either would work so it may come down to going with what sounds best in your ear.

That's not a very helpful opinion, sorry!

DLPB

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I agree that flow edges it... I think that's why I will go with Cosmic :)  8-)

Narzack

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I just installed Bootleg with the Retranslation project(really the old mod in which I'm interested).  The problem, is I kept English Spelling, Canon Names, and Canon Items.  I'd like to do a complete retranslation, but not sure if I can reinstall the mod or not.  I have the Menu Overhaul with the Retranslation Installer.  Can I just run that with the options selected? Or will I need to uninstall Bootleg and reinstall?

DLPB

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Yeah just run the menu overhaul installer again

Narzack

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Great, thanks for the response.

Narzack

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I was just rereading through the first post, and I saw something which prompted a question.  If I understand correctly, you've retranslated everything up to the plot area of Junon.  After that, does all the writing revert back to the original release?

DLPB

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A lot of it does yes.  However, not all of it is linear.  Most of the highwind is done (although when I go through the game it will be repolished also), experts hall is done, wutai pagoda is done...

etc.

DEFIANT

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sorry moved

Kaldarasha

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Have somebody ever realized the big bug in the storyline? No i don't mean the Phoenix feather<->Aeriths death bug, that could be easily handled by changing the death status to     unconsciousness (like in newer games),that means if someone goes down he's not dead but unconsciousness and Phoenix feather is cure this status. No, I mean Cloud! He is wearing all the time (1.st Class) Soldier uniform and nearly nobody in Shin-Ra is recognize him as such. He  has to pay entry to get in to Junon, he has to pay for using the boot and the worst of all: some stupid commander in Junon says to him he has to change his cloths.

By the way DLPB, I think changing Zack to Zax could be a wrong idea. There is another interpretation of his name. So the name Zack comes from the name Zachariah (Hebrew) and means
`Remembered by God`. On German sites I find a bit more detail `Remembered by Jahwe (or Jehovah)`. And that's what the jenova of Cloud is doing: she remembers Zack and gives Cloud his personalty. The shortform of Zachariah is Zach. I supposed Zack is a mix between Zach and Zax.

DLPB

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The Japanese is Zakkusu not Zakku.  There is no way Zack was intended. It is stone wall.  The closest is Zacks, Sachs and Zax, and in all likelihood, including the reference in  Last Order, Zax is intended.  Just like Jax is Jakkusu in Mortal Kombat.

As for Phoenix Tail/Down, the game in Japanese (and now in retranslation) does not say that a person you use it on has "died"  it says "out of action" which we call Knocked Out.  Aerith died.  Also, battle elements are not the same as story elements, otherwise being shot by a shot gun (Rufus) would have killed Cloud.

Common sense needs exercising.  The game makes reference to Zangan using a Cure spell on Tifa at one point and that it isn't working (because she is too badly injured). 


« Last Edit: 2012-09-24 07:28:13 by DLPB »

Gemini

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There's usually a simpler explanation to these issues: plot ≠ gameplay.

DLPB

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Precisely.  A game play that obeyed physics and reality would be a very stupid and dull game.  Game play is rarely the plot or intended to be (like collecting balloons on a mountain).  You have to exercise judgement. Unfortunately most people don't seem to realise the distinction... and then you get Advent Children where the makers tried to make a story/film work as a game.   ;D
« Last Edit: 2012-09-24 12:52:16 by DLPB »

Covarr

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No, I mean Cloud! He is wearing all the time (1.st Class) Soldier uniform and nearly nobody in Shin-Ra is recognize him as such. He  has to pay entry to get in to Junon, he has to pay for using the boot and the worst of all: some stupid commander in Junon says to him he has to change his cloths.
There were never a lot of members of Soldier to begin with, and their numbers had severely dwindled by the time FF7 takes place. I wouldn't put it past people to simply not recognize the uniform. Remember, the vast majority of Shinra's army had a different uniform, enough that even many Shinra employees might not have ever seen it.

...or the developers just got confused.

Kaldarasha

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No i think the Soldier taskforce was implement in a very late developing stadium to highlight up Cloud and Sephiroth more.


Typhlosion24

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Hi, I have installed the retranslation mod in Bootleg while checking the "canon names" box which i think is supposed to use the psx names like "Marlene" right? but when i 1st meet Barret's daughter she is called "Marin". Any idea of what may be going on?
Also if this project is not complete, does that mean that when I get to the parts of the game that have not yet been retranslated, the game will use the original psx text?

DLPB

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The former problem will be looked at for M006.  The other problem has been answered in this thread.