Author Topic: FFXIII?  (Read 36251 times)

xLostWingx

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #50 on: 2011-09-07 15:41:35 »
Haha, I'm sure you could find a comparison, and I don't doubt that XI is a great game.  It is just that after investing God knows how much of my life into Runescape (classic mind you, not the garbage they play nowadays) between ages 12 and 16, I have deemed all MMOs Evil.  They are like a drug addiction, whereas traditional RPGs are more like a blow-up doll.  Both are probably a waste of money in order to somehow fulfill an unsatisfied life, but at least with the doll, you own it forever; with the MMO (drug addiction) you gotta continue paying for it at regular intervals.

And if you do want to make an attempt at a worthy comparison, I challenge you to tell me what is comparable to the Materia System of VII!  Because this remains my favorite system to date, and things such as Junction System (VIII) and Job Classes, do not qualify as adequate comparisons. Ha!

DarkFang

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #51 on: 2011-09-07 16:21:42 »
Wouldn't the Esper system be almost the same as the Materia system?

xLostWingx

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #52 on: 2011-09-07 16:30:16 »
VI is an area that I have little experience with.  So maybe.  Is it?

I mean, I enjoy playing with Support, Independent, and Command Materia the most.  Deathblow+Added Cut effectively creates a 3x-cut; 6 Quadra Magics paired with 6 Comet2 with an MpTurbo paired with Comet2 with W-Magic and you got 80 high powered comets flying at the enemy with 1 turn; 8 Counter=Mimes for epic Limit Miming.  This is a very small sample of why I love materia.

vaccine.exe

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #53 on: 2011-09-07 20:35:52 »
The materia answer will have to wait until I play through VII as "my" understanding of it is zero unless you want to waste I imagine pages of post explaining it to me back and forth. The junctioning I will take a crack at.....

So from my limited play of VIII my experience is that junctioning  allows you to attach magic to boost certain stats and allow you to boost defensive and/or offensive abilities. Furthermore, correct me if im wrong here, but some junctions allow you a chance to inflict the status of the said magic junctioned either as a status ailment or added damage?

One example that comes to mind straight away is the alignment of day and weather.... sounds cosmic I know but I kid you not ;D Vana'diel has days based on the elements and the same for weather. I.E. if it were Firesday with single Fire weather then your damage output from Fire based magic will be increased by a percentage. In the case of double Fire weather it is increased further again. Equally if the magic you are casting is of the status ailment inflicting type and is fire based then it effects chance to land and duration, which helps in the case of sticking it to higher level mobs. Obviously thats not "junctioning" but using the properties of the environment in a "junctioning" like fashion to boost your magic ability.

For the most part though the comparison comes in the form of equipment. Adding first to what I just wrote are elemental staves as this is a good example, these directly add a pre-set and consistent 10-25% damage bonus to magic damage and chance to land ailments and duration. It is interesting that you mentioned "job classes" as I have to delve into this area to explain further. Staves in the case of the job "Summoner" directly effect the amount of MP used by the summon per "tick". "Tick" refers to MP used every 3 seconds by the summon to remain summoned.

Again "job classes" are important to this explanation. I will use the example of "Thief" as its what I played most. As you level a job you also level its inherent stats the same as for example Squalls inherent stats. In FFXI the stats are capped based on what job you are playing at the time I.E. Thief is geared towards high Agility, Dexterity, Evasion and Dagger skill. There is a whole classing system that determines what level a jobs abilities cap at but as an example:

Thief: (these are just random numbers im using)
DEX-250
AGI-250
EVA-320       
Dagger Skill-300
All other stats-150-200

In the case of FFVIII and Sqaull he takes magic and junctions it to boots his inherent stats thereby increasing his damage and/or defensive ability. In the case of me and my Thief I use certain pieces of equipment to increase my stats with the same goal in mind, to increase mostly my evasion and dagger skill was my flavour. I was all about hitting and not being hit.

So you see they compare very closely they are just doing it in different ways, VIII uses magic junctions in the place of equips whereas XI is simply the reverse. With each job in XI you are simply aiming to acquire equips that boost the stats that are desirable to that job, equally in VIII you are junctioning to suit a desired task you choose a char to do.

On a final note some equips in XI will inflict status ailments or elemental damage when you are hit, The latter elemental is always el oh el but the status ailment gear is great but alot of its geared around mages in an attempt to offer some added defensive ability as they are fairly squishy jobs. And I 100% whole heartedly agree that MMORPGS eat your soul hence I dont play it any more 5yrs was enough got pretty bad there for a while but I dont regret it.

gjoerulv

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #54 on: 2011-09-08 11:44:37 »
[Offtopic]
Yes MMOs are evil. I don't believe (most) game developers have evil intentions, and most MMO players probably have some sort of life. But personally I detest the ide behind MMOs.

Even if a MMO is free it's still kinda evil. Yes, it becomes like a drug I believe. There is always something to do, or rather, the illusion of something different to do. In reality the players do the same thing over and over again. That's exactly what creates the addiction. Doing the same thing again and again. Making you pay for it is beyond evil.

All games are like this, but at least with normal games it ends at some point.

Yes, the materia system is the best system. It's genius. May have been based on FF6 but still better.


Tenko Kuugen

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #56 on: 2011-09-10 19:41:33 »
you gotta be kidding me
is this strawberries never gonna end
also, the comments on that site are even worse than youtube comments

xLostWingx

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #57 on: 2011-09-10 21:22:20 »
lol, the comments jeez.  Are we the only true FF fans left?  "I need XIII Versus DAMMIT!! NOW!"  it is just sickening.  I'm going back to my corner to play with materia.

ultima espio

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #58 on: 2011-09-10 21:41:12 »
While it's here I might as well post some stuff about XIII-2:

Returning characters:
Lightning
Serah
Snow (Gone missing, Serah finds his necklace)
Hope (Seen in latest trailer, saves Serah and Noel from a monster)
Vanille (Voice actress confirmed her return)
Fang and Sazh are to return, but there's been nothing shown yet.

Random battles return, as do towns and NPCs. Some battles can be seen on the map like in the original.

Reaction commands appear in the battles, similar to KH2.

There is a time travel system which will unlock multiple endings. Depending on your choices, your ending changes.

Quote
A gameplay element called the Mog Clock has been added, where the player must attack monsters on the field before the time's up to get the upper hand in the ensuing battle. When the player attacks a monster, the screen lights up and the scene switches to a battlefield, marking the start of a battle. NPCs (such as the remnant PSICOM operatives) will fight monsters that appear in the field to weaken them before a fight. Though the player still controls one out of a three-member party, some monsters can be used as party members. Players can customize a monster's stats via leveling up and even equip them with accessories to further boost their powers. As a bonus, the weather or Climate Type in an area will affect battles, and at times, guest characters will join the party.

Quote
A new dungeon exploration system has been added called Unstable Rifts. As the player guides the character through the platforms, they'll have to grab crystals with floor tiles disappearing behind them along the path. In the E3 2011 demo, solving the puzzle in the Rift weakens the boss Paradox Alpha, also known as Atlas.

Quote
Another new gameplay element is the Historia Crux feature, the time travel system in the game that can be accessed through the use of gates throughout areas on the field. The gates are activated by finding special Artefacts in hidden treasure chests using Mog, and by resetting the gates, Noel and Serah can redo their adventures. Using Historia Crux, the player will be able to choose the location or era to travel to. There will be a "gate matrix," where players will select their next location based on the game's AF (After the Fall of Cocoon) timeline. Players will also be able to access the save and main menus through gates.

hian

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #59 on: 2011-09-10 22:55:49 »
Played pretty much all the FF games there are, except some of the never tactics editions, the FF7 spin-offs(because of how the mess with the original storyline and art-style), 11(P2P mmo's don't sit well with me) and the Crystal Chronicals series, and Legends/Saga or whatever name they go by these days.

If I had to rate them:
FF1-3 - Great by the standards of its time - shait by todays standards, all rank pretty much the same in my eyes.
FF4 - The first FF game to have a story and character development worth talking about. A good game.
FF5 - Took a step backwards in terms of story and character development, but was a good game all the same.
FF6 - Great game. I'd probably rank this is high as 7, if it wasn't for the poorer graphics, and sometimes
messy exploration elements.
FF7 - The best game in the series. Was groundbreaking in its time. Good, in many ways, even by todays standard,
if we ignore poor translation, dated graphics and dated sound.
FF8 - Very good, but took a step back in terms of story and characters, and contrived combat/magic system. Kept everything else that was good though, and improved on sound and graphics.
FF9 - Very good. Took a step up from FF8 in terms of story and characters, but I felt it tried to hard to play on nostalgia of fanbase, by it's return to nes/snes era style, which never really sat well with me to begin with. Magic system slighly annoying, and the encounter rates unbearable.
FF10 - Great. Sound and graphics, top notch. Story and character development was great too, even if I disliked much of the cast. The combat/magic system was great, the only one a really enjoyed since FF7. Took a great step back in terms of mini-games/additional gameplay elements, and in terms of exploration though.
FF12 - Good. It was a good rpg, it just wasn't a good FF game. Difuse, and unengaging story. Next to no character progression. Bland soundtrack. Great graphics though, and the gameplay was ok.

FF tactics - Great game. Although, as a strategy rpg, I think it falls short compared to Vandal Hearts in all departments except for the class system. It also has some major balancing issue.

Personally, I though FF13 was ok.
It ranks the same way FF12 did to me - namely, ok as a game, but shait as FF-game.
If they'd put another name on the cover, I'd probably go "Well, this is ok". The cover however, says Final Fantasy, and that raises the bar. Unfortunately, it raised the bar above the quality of the game.

Loved the graphics, and thought the story was ok. The characters, although I didn't much like any of them, where believable in a sense, which I though was a breath of fresh air considering how often characters in Jrpgs, IMO are often completely out of touch with how real people would act given their scenarios. So a small pluss for the writing, which is a step forward compared to the non-existent character development in FF12.
Finally, the soundtrack was ok.

That's all the positive I can say for the game really.

As for the negative:

Gameplay-wise it was strawberries.
The linearity destroyed any sense of grand avdenture that FF games have always tried to give off.
Combined with the lack of minigames/extra scenarios(like the FF7 bike scenario, snow board, submarine etc),
npc interaction, and town/world-map exploration, any time spendt on the non-battle portion of the game was rendered extremely boring, and made into a vacous process that served no other purpose but giving us a pretty "loading screen" on the way to the next battle.

Now, if the story was more than "just ok", and the battle system was completely awesome, then I might not have cared all that much. That isn't the case however.

The battle system was very pretty to look at, but the fact that you only control one character at the time, makes the game feel extremely restrictive and limited in terms of strategical aspects as compared to the earlier FF games.
The AI contolled partners aspect, further pulls it down. If I wanted to program A.I's and have a computer do my gaming for me, I wouldn't be gaming in the first place - I'd be in robot engineering.

The last grudge is how short the game is, and how due to its linearity and combat centered nature, it has less to no replay value. Rather than paying todays prices for a game(and rpg no less), that only lasts for 10-20 hours, of which there is no point in going through several times, I'd rather buy something else altogether.

But all in all, even with this gripe - just for the graphics, the soundtrack, and the story, I'm still temped to say that the game warrants a single playthrough. Even more so, if it wasn't named Final Fantasy.
However, it is a FF game, and by that note, a poor one at that.

The thing that provokes me the most though, is how "easy"(it might take a long time, but it's far from impossible) it would be to make the game much better.
Add some towns and npc interaction. Add something similar to a world map, with some exploration elements.
Putt in some mini-games or additional gameplay elements to break up the pace and liven up the gameplay formula.
Get Nobuo to work on the soundtrack.

Had they done that, I'd probably rate the game that much higher. They didn't, and that in my mind, lowers my opinion of the game, and the creators that much more.

Now, with Xenoblade, and The Last Story(arguably one of the best Jrpg since FF10, and IMO better than most, even counted psx/ps2 era), it just struck me how much square-enix has screwed over the franchise.
As much as I want a FF7 remake - I wouldn't want one made by these jokers.

DLPB

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #60 on: 2011-09-10 23:21:04 »
Quote
As much as I want a FF7 remake - I wouldn't want one made by these jokers.

Let's make that a sticky.

Quote
you gotta be kidding me
is this sh*t never gonna end

Nope 'cause they are making money.  If you think this forum is bad, I suggest you go onto a few general game forums where they are currently lapping it up like the moronic sheep they are.

Case in point:

Quote
by Aeolus Friday, September 09, 2011 at 09:17 PM
First let us see how XIII-2 turns out. Though for me, XIII-2 is already looking like a win in my book. So I'm sure I won't mind XIII-3 if and when it comes out, lol.
« Last Edit: 2011-09-10 23:29:27 by DLPB »

xLostWingx

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #61 on: 2011-09-11 01:03:28 »
@Hian - Nice objective critiques there.  I utilize the "Good for an RPG, strawberries for an FF" system of rating too lol.

I do wonder though...why don't more people rank FFV and FFT higher?  I know V's story wasn't spetacular and the characters were pretty much just there, but I think it was the first time in the series where you could actually make a character the way you wanted a character to be.  The previous games were like "Here's your monk, here's your knight, and here's your white mage - have fun!" or "Choose a pure class for this blank character - have fun!"  FFV instead gave you the option to say "Here are four characters, you can make them proficient in whatever you like and by the way, you can give them a secondary set of abilities!"  Same with Tactics.  It allowed for the practical Summoner with White Magic ability or the absurd Thief with Black Magic ability if you so chose.  AND in each of these games there are classes available that I don't really recall seeing in any other FFs like the Trainers and Geomancers.  Capturing enemies and unleashing them for damage and status ailments?  Awesome!  Enticing an enemy creature to join your party?  Even better!  Poisoning bitches when you attack while standing on grass or petrifying them when your standing on stone?  Sweet!

Is it because fewer people have played through these games (as opposed to FFVII and FFX)?

I think this is cool
« Last Edit: 2011-09-11 01:18:56 by xLostWingx »

Prince Lex

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #62 on: 2011-09-11 03:51:39 »
While it's here I might as well post some stuff about XIII-2:

Returning characters:
Lightning
Serah
Snow (Gone missing, Serah finds his necklace)
Hope (Seen in latest trailer, saves Serah and Noel from a monster)
Vanille (Voice actress confirmed her return)
Fang and Sazh are to return, but there's been nothing shown yet.

Random battles return, as do towns and NPCs. Some battles can be seen on the map like in the original.

Reaction commands appear in the battles, similar to KH2.

There is a time travel system which will unlock multiple endings. Depending on your choices, your ending changes.


Do you have a source for Fang returning? Because she was my favourite character. I've been following her English VA (Rachel Robinson) on Facebook and she's said she hasn't recorded anything, and Vanille's VA confirmed that recording had ended. Either Rachel is being very coy about her NDA or she's not in it, which would be a shame.

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #63 on: 2011-09-11 12:13:47 »
Nope 'cause they are making money.  If you think this forum is bad, I suggest you go onto a few general game forums where they are currently lapping it up like the moronic sheep they are.

I was specifically talking about the whole "make 20 FF13 games" thing. I'd rather have SQX go bankrupt than continue releasing crap
and while they make money off ff13, I heard they're not writing very good numbers and partially also red numbers.

ultima espio

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #64 on: 2011-09-11 12:51:25 »

Do you have a source for Fang returning? Because she was my favourite character. I've been following her English VA (Rachel Robinson) on Facebook and she's said she hasn't recorded anything, and Vanille's VA confirmed that recording had ended. Either Rachel is being very coy about her NDA or she's not in it, which would be a shame.

It was announced during the conference when the game was revealed. They said "The old characters from the Original Final Fantasy XIII will be returning, with important and unexpected changes"

They weren't supposed to say anything about Vanille and Fang, but Vanille's VA let it slip. Or it could be that Fang's lines just haven't been recorded yet.

DLPB

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #65 on: 2011-09-11 14:04:58 »
I was specifically talking about the whole "make 20 FF13 games" thing. I'd rather have SQX go bankrupt than continue releasing crap
and while they make money off ff13, I heard they're not writing very good numbers and partially also red numbers.

Yup and that is what I mean, they are obviously making profit or they wouldn't do it.  How many people will buy FFXIII-2?  I'd say a lot even though it is sure to have a ridiculous story (even more ridiculous than XIII) and be a cash in.

I have also noticed a trend....  up to FF9 (in terms of year released, because even the old FF's have been redone and gone bananas)) we had a reasonable FF logo...  then for FFX the age of graphics came upon us, and the logos started getting more and more ridiculous.  Because Biggerer is betterer....

Observe:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/all+final+fantasy+logos+/Liam-The-Hedgefox/Final%20Fantasy/Final_Fantasy_Logos.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/30/Final_Fantasy_Type-0_logo.jpg

and now FFXIII:  http://www.ffxiii.com/images/logo.jpg

And ffxiii-2  http://www.finalfantasy13-2game.com/images/FFXIII2_logo.jpg

I can look at http://www.finalfantasy13-2game.com/images/FFXIII2_logo.jpg

and already tell it is going to be a sh*tty cash in (reminds me of http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/8/83/FFX-2logo.jpg ).  As we say in Britain... Look at the STATE of it.
===========

Final Fantasy Versus XIII  is an upcoming action role-playing game published by Square Enix for the PlayStation and currently being developed by the company's 1st Production Department alongside Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy XIII-2, and Final Fantasy Type-0.

<  Quantity not quality these days.
« Last Edit: 2011-09-11 14:17:28 by DLPB »

kicker

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #66 on: 2011-09-11 18:23:13 »
For FFXIII i would mostly agree with all that DLPB said. I didn't feel the thrill of it all. I only played it till the end just hoping that maybe the boss will be awesome :P. FFXII was ok, although the summons felt a little weird though. I can say that FFX-2 was a little bit meeh. It surely had a good storyline. It had a heck of a difficulty. Alternative ending,secret things etc was really cool. I hated the 'i will only play with 3 girls that run under the snow and the sun with only their underwear and maybe a piece of cloth here and there. FFX was nice. FFIX was even better. FFVIII was kinda nice. It's plot definetly had me hanging on the screen. FFVII... no need to comment it really. The fact that they made FFVII-CRISIS CORE,FFVII-BEFORE CRISIS,FFVII-ADVENT CHILDREN, FFVII-ADVENT CHILDREN COMPLETE,FFVII-DoC and left a hint of maybe another sequel. just says everything about it :P. I don't recall a lot of things about FFVI and before. (Oh and dissidia is really cool :P ). The only way for Square-enix to repent for it's sins is to make FFversus XIII the most epic of the fabula nova crystalis. I mean i've been waiting and hanging on any info and video available for 5 years+. They'are really testing my patience by postponing it again and again and again. I will wait sometime patiently and wait to be impressed by it and hope that all this time won't be wasted...

Prince Lex

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #67 on: 2011-09-11 22:08:30 »
To be honest, I've pretty much given up on future titles being anything near as epic in the same ways as previous titles. I really think it's due to staff changing (Sakaguchi) and changing the way they're structured as a business (merger with Enix). I still think their titles are polished to the nth degree, but there are too many arms to the company now, and holding on to what Final Fantasy titles previously were is only going to result in disappointment with future games.

I've decided I don't care. I liked FFXIII for what it was. Yeah, I was incredibly disappointed, but that's because I was expecting it to be like all FF titles USED to be. Like I expected XII to be what FF used to be. I need to let go of that, and embrace the new games with an open mind. XIII had some really interesting character development and plot elements, though bits of it were stupid.

The bottom line for me is - regardless of whether or not it was a good "Final Fantasy game" it's still one of my favourites of this generation. There just isn't anything else like it. And I WILL be buying XIII-2, because it's worth it to find out what happens to Fang and Vanille.

sen

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #68 on: 2011-09-11 22:37:08 »
Ff13 may feel like its different ff game but for me i really loved it i cant believe DPLB is saying its a piece of sh** while you havnt played it yourself and observing it from videos? I agree when i saw the vids i thought this game would be crap but after i got my hands on it i was kinda impressed btw ff10 rocks!!

DLPB

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #69 on: 2011-09-11 22:47:12 »
I don't suppose actually holding the joypad is going to make much difference to the games contents or does it use some sort of DNA system on the joypad where it changes dependent on if a human is actually playing?  Reviews , videos and actually watching people first hand on it cannot lie.

What is more, the reason review sites are there is to show you if you want to BUY the game.  I don't. The clever person is the person who does not buy the game after realising he will not like it, rather than buys it and then has to sell it on after being robbed.

The story and gameplay are as plain on youtube as they are when playing it.  I don't like a 3 mile gauntlet with retarded characters and cutscenes at every checkpoint.
« Last Edit: 2011-09-12 01:29:31 by DLPB »

xLostWingx

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #70 on: 2011-09-12 01:09:11 »
...I don't like a 3 mile gauntlet with retarded characters and cutscenes at every checkpoint.

Careful, these are some of the same reasons I might cite if I were explaining why I found FFX to be a sub-par FF.  No need to defend X or attempt to convince me its awesome.  I think it is good, just not great and I think XIII sucks also - just don't get too confident in your opinions.

DLPB

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #71 on: 2011-09-12 01:28:05 »
X was not a literal gauntlet with CGI cutscenes at checkpoints.  You had space, you could go places and veer off course and more importantly, you could go back and later in the game there were hidden things to get.  XIII really was a literal gauntlet.
« Last Edit: 2011-09-12 01:33:26 by DLPB »

DarkFang

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #72 on: 2011-09-12 01:42:49 »
FFX was linear as well, however you could backtrack.

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #73 on: 2011-09-12 05:41:59 »
There are better rpgs out there nowadays than FF. I have long given up on those. If I want a good RPG I play Xenoblade nowadays. I hope they turn that into a series.

gjoerulv

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Re: FFXIII?
« Reply #74 on: 2011-09-12 13:07:33 »
Imo some people take the FF evolution a bit too personal. I'm not trying to act like a paragon saying this, but I stopped caring after FFIX.

I say: let people enjoy it if they want. It's not hurting me or anyone I know.
The previous generation is always gonna say what the next generation watch or listen to is crap anyway. The latest decades, In western society, many kids are formed by the pop culture of their time (really sad if you ask me). Kids listening to awful music, playing crappy games, watching sh*tty movies are a result of this, pop, sell out, money making industry. It's become more money loving that's for sure. Quantity in money outweighs quality in products.

Corporations, bands, or whatever, making it big in the market are prone to sell out at some point. When/if they do, and you don't like it, be glad they made something you liked in the first place. They weren't obliged to. Sure, it's sad they caved in and sold out, I agree, but I don't understand the hate it spawns in most cases. Spreading hate wont change the industry. Even if it did, somewhere down the line someone else will sell out again.