Author Topic: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?  (Read 7173 times)

Shademp

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Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« on: 2011-11-19 20:01:16 »
Does anybody have a technical explanation as to just why the menu can't be accessed in these parts?

The bridges lack random encounters as well.

Same question can apply to submarine/underwater area. Why is there no menu access and could there be a way to make the menu accessible? Would you see the otherwise unseen location name, "Bottom of the Sea", or would you not see it because you are not standing on the ocean floor?


Tiny Bronco and the Highwind fall into this cateogory as well. What location name would you see if the menu access was not disabled?
« Last Edit: 2011-11-19 20:04:36 by Shademp »

sen

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #1 on: 2011-11-20 20:17:30 »
First off what mods did you install?

Shademp

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #2 on: 2011-11-20 20:34:04 »
No mods. I'm playing the PSX version, without modifications. I'm simply curious about why the game acts the way it does. If you walk on the bridge, you can't access the menu.

BrutalAl has a theory though.
It might be that your height, Z-coordinate, is not saved. Because of this, if you entered the menu or a battle, once you left the game would not know whether you were standing on the bridge or not.

There are some glitches you can find if you have a chocobo under the bridge and then walk on the bridge, then press the button to mount the chocobo and then dismount. If you do it right you won't be able to move.
A chocobo who is under the bridge is in general in your way when you walk across the bridge. So he concludes that there is an obsolete z-coordinate detection going on.

Had you been able to save your game on the bridge, then load that save file, you might end up below the bridge, or not able to move at all.

Kranmer

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #3 on: 2011-11-20 22:31:34 »
The PC version has the same problem (not being able to save on the bridge).
But i can disprove that theory that Z-cords are not saved, i can force my way into the menu and save my game
then when i close the game and reopen as shown here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8pJLkehGUI
it loads exactly where i saved it, i suspect the PSX version would do the same (in fact the save could probably be converted to a PSX save if anyone wanted to try it)

But I'm not sure why it won't let you access the menu while on that bridge.
There will be ways of making the menu accessible, if you are using the PSX version it could probably be done easiest with a gameshark code (i am not aware of any that already exist but you could probably make one yourself easy enough).

DLPB

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #4 on: 2011-11-20 23:43:25 »
The bridge is a moving part and probably doesn't count as "world map" in the same way as normal ground. 

pico

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #5 on: 2011-11-20 23:57:29 »
However, that video isn't a good disproof of the z-location theory because the area below the bridge is water (you cannot stand on water). For a good disproof, do it on a bridge that spans land.

pacito-ex

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #6 on: 2011-11-21 00:14:13 »
Same thing happens in the PSX version. Probably just programmed that way.

Kranmer

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #7 on: 2011-11-21 08:52:56 »
However, that video isn't a good disproof of the z-location theory because the area below the bridge is water (you cannot stand on water). For a good disproof, do it on a bridge that spans land.

OK here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz66x7dHues
this video shows me saving and then loading (i had to quit the game to load but to save time i just joined the video's together)

syntax error

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #8 on: 2011-11-21 17:29:37 »
It could have been a bug that was fixed that way in development stage.

NFITC1

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #9 on: 2011-11-22 02:39:12 »
Same thing happens in the PSX version. Probably just programmed that way.

This has my vote. Those bridges actually move slightly while you're on them and maybe they found a bug related to saving the  position of the bridge while it was in motion. While it's at one extreme or the other. I think you can save on that bridge near North Coral. That's the only other place I can think of where z-position is important.

I suppose it's possible to be on the western-most side while a bridge is swung furthest west, save and re-load OFF the bridge even though your z-cooed would be preserved. That might allow you to access parts of the map you shouldn't get to yet.

Asa

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #10 on: 2011-11-25 17:33:09 »
Wutai Bridge Rope's location name found.
sithlord48's Black Chocobo can set the coordinates.
I tried to put Party on bridge. But Cloud were always on a ground.
After many trial and error, Cloud is hooked on a rope, not on a bridge.
It can opens menu. Location name is "ミッドガルエリア (Midgar Area)".
Chocobo exists under the bridge and its coordinates influenced.
It might be OK to use Highwind or Submarine instead of Chocobo.

MCR Save file (FF7 International, original save data were taken from Black Chocobo Samples)

Another unseen location name found.
Set Party and Buggy as the same coordinates of sea.
They cannot move, but can open menu and Party can ride a Buggy.
When riding a Buggy, its location name is "海" (means Sea).


another images


If Party and Submarine are set to outer sea, you can dive unknown sea.
Example: X=51150, Y=116280, Z=0



« Last Edit: 2011-11-26 09:49:05 by Asa »

Asa

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #11 on: 2011-11-26 09:51:24 »
MCR Save file Cloud standing on Bridge (I had miss-linked, but corrected now)


After loading, it cannot open menu.
Although it looks like a bridge, but I think it is a mountain ground.
Maybe, Bridge amplitude is "Menu disabled size ≧ Appearance size > Effective size".
« Last Edit: 2011-11-26 11:45:27 by Asa »

Shademp

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #12 on: 2011-11-26 10:10:46 »
Thank you greatly for your contributions, Asa! I had no idea about the unseen "Sea" location name. This is very good stuff.

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #13 on: 2011-11-26 13:02:54 »
I wonder if it's possible to force menu access somehow regardless of where you are
in other news, does someone know what the deep sea beyond the small area you can usually traverse looks like? anyone ever tried using black choco to get the submarine somewhere else?

sithlord48

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #14 on: 2011-11-26 13:19:04 »
the sub might be bound to the waterways only. similarly to how ruby is bound to the desert (but before that is ruby its diamond and ultimate weapon, both are never in the desert..). since we are on the subject of global coordinates it should also be know that there are different world maps used depending on the map you have loaded you might not even see the sub this untested with sub but happens with other models , for example you can't see buggy model later if you transform it from highwind (but you can get in a ride it).
nice to see  your all having fun w/ playing with your coordinates. if you happen to find any good locations be sure to let me know ill add them to the list in Black Chocobo.

Asa

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #15 on: 2011-11-26 22:29:00 »
Quote
Although it looks like a bridge, but I think it is a mountain ground.
Maybe, Bridge amplitude is "Menu disabled size ≧ Appearance size > Effective size".
This idea must be wrong.
On Bridge2 MCR File
Quote
anyone ever tried using black choco to get the submarine somewhere else?
There is the one more way of going to outer sea. The location of Field Map Save of Disc 1, change it to "Hallway" by using Black Chocobo. When Party goes to outside from right ladder of there, Party rides on the unbelievable vehicle.
Since a ceiling becomes obstructive, Submarine cannot cross a boundary. But this vehicle is small, can cross a boundary easily.
« Last Edit: 2011-11-26 23:02:02 by Asa »

Asa

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #16 on: 2011-11-30 21:37:21 »
First of all, why I could not put Party on Wutai Bridge in save file. It seems that the Z coordinate format is different in PSX and PC version. I didn't notice it, therefore I couldn't.
Followings are about PSX version and I used only FF7 International.

Edited/12-8, 9, 10 & 16
Followings are results of editing Height value in save file.
Which value make a Party located on Bridge or Ground: Wutai Bridge
Theoe values are changed depending on the Party's standing position (Height of Bridge and Ground)

Corel Bridge is different.

Under the bridge, Party hanged in the air depending on height value.
In Forest, this phenomenon occurs in all height. And Party can walks 1 or 2 step in the air or under the ground.


MCR file of Party stands on Bridge
Party's X-Y Coordinate was taken from Emulator's Quick Save file.
Quick Save was taken when Party running toward Bridge Rope while Bridge was swinging.
When this save is loaded, Party is caught in the rope. Party's movement is restricted. Can open menu, location name is Midgar Area.
It is necessary to save swinging bridge coordinates to slot for avoiding this problem,
I think this must be the reason that cannot open menu on bridge.
And this file was accidentally made. Bridge is vibrating hardly when Party is moving.
MCR file Bridge vibrating

Buggy and Chocobo. Ride on flag in save file.
If it can ride off from Buggy and Chocobo on Bridge, ride off and walk to the place where can open menu and save the game.
It is not able to check directly, but can make same situation by editing Save file.
After loading that save, Buggy and Chocobo falls down under the Bridge. It means Buggy and Chocobo are not able to stand alone on Bridge.


Ride on Flag
0x0FA1 Ride on (Normal World Map & Underwater map)
Tiny Bronco=0x05, Chocobo=0x13, Buggy=0x06, Highwind=0x03, Submarine=0x0D
(Tiny Bronco and Submarine cannot stays on Bridge even if party is riding. Highwind always flies in the air when Party is riding, and Bridge ignored.)
While investigating the above-mentioned thing, I found Party is able to ride various objects.


Flag for switching World Map.
MCR Save file Underwater map (FF7 International Disc2)
0x0FA2 Map Switch
0x00: World Map
0x02: Underwater Map
0x03: Unknown Map


Unknown Map includes "Midgar Area", "Bottom of the Sea" Area and "Icicle Area". The turning snow field next to Gaeas Cliff Base is a part of this "Icicle Area" (I cannot find a cave yet) Currently, warp area to the field Great Glacier and 6 caves found.
MCR Save file Bottom of the Sea (FF7 International Disc3)
(After a encounter, PHS and Save in Menu will be disabled. Cheat code used for saving file. )


I had used Eslava's Save file and Black Chocobo sample file. Thank you for them.
« Last Edit: 2011-12-27 10:13:19 by Asa »

Bosola

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Re: Why no menu access on Wutai continent bridges?
« Reply #17 on: 2011-12-11 18:38:07 »
I'm not writing from a machine I can do any testing on right now, but has anyone confirmed whether the hook for calling the menu is actually disabled whilst you're on a bridge, or whether it's failing / being thrown an exception?