Author Topic: A slight niggling issue I have that will probably never be resolved...  (Read 6067 times)

Prince Lex

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So in Aerith's death scene, I have a slight niggling problem that I've never mentioned before because it's so damn inconsequential.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but here goes.

Watch the FMV. Skip straight to around 0:45 if you can't be bothered watching the bit before it. In the PSX version, the music begins at almost precisely the exact moment the materia hits the ground, creating what I think is a very emotional effect.

In the PC version, there is a delay. And not just with FF7 music. Even with the horrible original MIDI, there is a delay of about 1 second before the music starts.

Is there any way to fix this? I know the music isn't attached to the video in this instance, so what would we have to edit in order to make it right? Is it even possible?

NFITC1

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That's always stuck out to me too. I think in this case it's just a matter of what frame to start the music on. Don't ask me how to determine that or what to change, but that's probably all there would be to it.

DLPB

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This can probably be fixed with makou reactor.  Can't swear to that though but it prob is a script thing.  I will have a look.

Hellbringer616

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If you fix this DLPB you're my hero

DLPB

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I am pretty sure I won't be fixing it, but I can inquire and wind up a few people who do know to move their ass into action.  8)

DLPB

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Looks like I was the person to fix it :P I just had a look and  I was right... all this is handled in script.  Get Makou Reactor tool to correct flevel.

Go to ancnt2 > mf > script 3  and you can see how it is playing effects at certain frames, if you go to byte 148 you can see this is where it is playing music.  The frame music is set to begin on 761 (>760).  Simply change 760 to the correct frame number.  (I will sort that now ;) )

edit.

This might not fix problem with delay... the script is not at fault.. it is right and same as psx.  The delay is being caused by something else, compatibility issue or buffering or something. You can change script like above to see if that helps but end of the day, this is papering over the crack.

Aali may know why there is a delay and the delay will likely change depending on computer / hardware /OS etc.

On my computer the delay is more like 1/5 of a second.
« Last Edit: 2012-01-22 14:18:01 by DLPB »

Prince Lex

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Hey DLPB I got your message on MSN earlier I've just been so hung over all day that I literally have not moved from my bed. Unproductive day, but so worth it.

Anyway, would changing the frame not fix it anyway? Even though the script is right and the same as the PSX, surely telling it to start earlier than it's actually supposed to would cause it to start in sync with the video?

Or have you tried that already and it didn't work?

EDIT: I feel I should add that I would test it myself but recently I've been using the laptop a lot for uni and my main install is on my desktop.

DLPB

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It would fix it for you yes... but it is just papering over the crack :P  since the real issue is the lag not the script.

Prince Lex

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I realise that, but I'm pretty sure that "lag" happens all over the place in game, it's just far more noticeable on the death scene because the music starts at such a crucial moment. There aren't really any other moments like that in the game as far as I remember, are there?

DLPB

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Not that I recall, but then...  the lag is very small on my computer....

Hellbringer616

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Lex, would you mind posting hardware specs? may help, i can't fathom that any PC in the modern era couldn't play FF7 lagless. But who knows

DLPB

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Could be a hardware/driver/software compatibility issue...  not a speed issue.

Prince Lex

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Lex, would you mind posting hardware specs? may help, i can't fathom that any PC in the modern era couldn't play FF7 lagless. But who knows

Irrelevant, there is no lag at all. The music simply begins later than it should, on (I'm assuming) everyone's version of FF7 PC. As is in the original post, the PSX version starts the music immediately when the materia hits the ground.

EDIT: I just re read that and it sounds a bit rude, so I'm sorry if it read that way to you lol. I have a laptop and a desktop, and since lurking here in 2002-3 I've had it installed on 9 seperate "rigs". The "music delay" happened on every one.

My current install is on my desktop.

Intel Core I7
Nvidia GTX 550i
8GB RAM
250gb SSD

Again, 9 different computers, so I'm pretty damn positive the problem is somewhere in the game and not with all 9 computers! Hahaha.

EDIT 2: Not that it matters, but I've had 2 different copies of FFVII over the period of those 9 computers, I lost my original years ago and got another recently.
« Last Edit: 2012-01-23 19:31:05 by Prince Lex »

DLPB

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It doesn't start that far out with mine... as I said.. its like 1/5 second.  Which leads me to believe that this is a compatibility / driver  issue etc..

I don't think the game itself is at fault, or at least not the script or mine would be out by a second too.

Oh ok.  9 comps.  :P  wait for edit.

edit:

Can you upload a clip of what you are seeing.hearing?  What might be 1/5 second to me may be 1 second to you.  I need to know for sure exactly what delay you are getting.  If it is a script issue, the above fix will work.

Prince Lex

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And here is a video to show you all what I mean.

PSX vs. PC Comparison.

DLPB

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I have checked exe code for FMV and that looks like it is doing what it should.  After looking at that vid out by 0.5 sec and mine out by 0.2 or thereabouts, I have a feeling this is just a buffering issue.

I am now testing with in_wave and aeriths theme with no silence at start and a v. small buffer.  Let's see what happens.

edit:  after testing with a wave file with no leading silence, seems to me this issue is simply a buffer+ leading silence issue.  It could also be that there is a slight delay caused by PSF plugin too and that does try to cut the silence at the start though how it goes about it and how fast is anyones guess.

This is not a game fault, a script fault or a hardware fault.  As far as I can see it is simply an issue with buffering, leading silence, PSF plugin , mp3plugin, or a combination of all of them.

We need a proper alternative, best bet, looping ogg and not FF7music.  Please someone (sith! Aali?) save us from FF7music.
« Last Edit: 2012-01-23 23:51:50 by DLPB »

Prince Lex

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Final Fantim's tracks are looping OGG in that YouTube video btw, but I am obviously using FF7Music.

EDIT: So I just tested it using the .wav file and this seems to resolve it on my setup aswell, indicating an issue with buffering/ FF7Music as DLPB suggested.

If I understood even a hint of programming I would dedicate all my free time to developing something better than that annoying ass program. Much respect for what it's given us, but it is about time it was implemented better in the game rather than having to run a second program all the time. It's like 10 years old now!! Hahahaha.


EDIT 2 (And I rarely edit my posts, I've done this so much recently it's irritating me): After much testing between me and DLPB it appears the issue is based on buffering, filetype and perhaps hardware.

The following has been noted:

1. There is a massive delay on original midi. Longer than the two in the vid using FF7Music.

2. DLPB was able to have it resolved using a .wav file. This did not work perfectly for me, but was miles better.

3. Manually reducing buffer time causes the sound to be crap. I had no sound below a certain level.

4. Hardware may be a factor - DLPB was able to change buffer length to 50ms, the lowest I can set mine is 200ms. We used the same out_wave.dll.

So it's fixable. But still really ferning annoying.
« Last Edit: 2012-01-24 00:21:15 by Prince Lex »

DLPB

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yeah this is definitely just a decode/buffer issue.  Wav decodes much faster and so the lag is small... ogg and mp3 take more time.  PSF is emulated and no one knows how it is handled except corlett... not to mention it is not really supposed to be used for games.  Then you factor in the ff7music program....

The ideal way out of this is to have the music set before it arrives but i don't see how that can work, thinking about it... the game tells it to start on that frame and not to load into memory beforehand. 

I guess you just need a good computer and fiddle the buffers down as low as you can in config (ogg file works pretty good on my comp).  Or use my script fix above to paper over the crack.
« Last Edit: 2012-01-24 00:20:02 by DLPB »

sithlord48

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while i have several versions of a sound plugin that is compatible with aali;s driver none of them are correctly tied to a backend, basicly all they do is say what they should be doing, honestly its not much more then what i was given from aali(ff7music plugin was the starter for these). i would be more then happy to give up my current code to someone who is more firmilar with programing for windows and using stuff that will work in wine also. you see i would have done it in Qt with Phonnon as the audio layer and it would have been done long ago, but the problem with that is with a "native" version of ff7 music it makes running and talking to ff7 tricky since on linux i would prolly use Dbus to do the talking and idk what on windows or mac os. so it has to be done as a windows program if anyone wants to continue this work the code is in C and i have the project files for VC++. this is of course if aali does not have an objection to me giving up the code.

the idea behind mine was simple , no config. load the ogg files (yes ogg so they loop correctly) from  '<ff7 install>/data/midi/ogg' have them named as in game and then pipe them to some libary that will decode and play them . most of the problem i had was that this plugin will have to be staticly compiled and when i try to link a backend that is easy to use . i get problems because of the static compliation requirement. also i have not touched the code in a while now.