Author Topic: Models and Blinking.  (Read 6754 times)

DLPB_

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Models and Blinking.
« on: 2012-05-12 13:49:40 »
As some of you will be aware, new models have a big problem with blinking.  The heads glitch, often disappear momentarily.  I am wondering if if it at all possible to correct this issue but first I need to know the exact nature of the problem.  Why are heads disappearing?  Surely an eye texture or blink code should not affect a whole head?



BlitzNCS

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #1 on: 2012-05-12 14:03:07 »
If I remember correctly, the eyes in the original models are just a polygon placed over the head model that dissapeared for a split second every now and again. Because of mesh groups etc, the game thinks the head you've imported is an eye and will 'blink' it every now and again. You have to either set the mesh groups so that the game doesn't assume the head is an eye, or if you want to be clever, just duplicate the head so you've got two heads in exactly the same position, where one 'blinks' to reveal the other head - which you can stick an altered "blinked" texture onto.

...if that made any sense whatsoever.  :-P

DLPB_

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #2 on: 2012-05-12 14:18:57 »
It did.  Thanks :)  PitBrat has told me that duplicating the head trick to make it look like a blink doesn't seem to work with any other character except Cloud so instead he duplicates the same head and it won't blink but it won't disappear either.

The question is now whether it is possible to make the game understand the head is not an eye...  like it did for the original models?


BlitzNCS

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #3 on: 2012-05-12 14:32:37 »
Well I'm assuming the heads in the original models are mesh group three - Try sticking two null models in the first two model groups when creating the .p model and see what happens?

DLPB_

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #4 on: 2012-05-12 14:39:38 »
 :-o

PIIiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitbraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat  ;D

BlitzNCS

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #5 on: 2012-05-12 14:59:07 »
Haha, have you gotten it to work? It'd be interesting to know, I never did fully understand this problem.

DLPB_

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #6 on: 2012-05-12 15:06:50 »
This is one for pitbrat... sadly I know nothing about models...  :-X  I understand the problem now... but not very technically.  Perhaps your suggestion will help Pitbrat too.

PitBrat

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #7 on: 2012-05-12 16:13:46 »
What is the best software to use in order to create the null groups and reorder the head group to make it 3rd?
Kimera allows for deleting groups and modifying group transparency.
Is it possible to create a null group using Kimera?

Borde

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #8 on: 2012-05-12 16:56:36 »
Well, not exacly. You can add a group compossed by a single very small triangle, though. The idea would be to use the "Add part to the bone" button to add an irrelevant model and the collapse it to a single p file when saving.

There is an easier way of removing blinking, though, that consist simply in adding an irrelevant model at the begining of the models list for the head bone (in the HRC file).

I've seen someone befor use a more elegant method that consisted in adding a pair of poligons right in front of the eyes textured with open version of the eyes and left the inderlying model with the eyes closed. That way blinking actually worked.

It was specualted that one could actually go as far as adding more frames to this blinking animation, but such thing should be done manipulating field scripts.

BlitzNCS

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #9 on: 2012-05-12 17:16:04 »
http://www.mediafire.com/?dunq5wfd3c9rc17

Try importing that in place of Cloud's head and see if it blinks. Hopefully that should import fine w/ textures and everything, haven't done it in a while.

Basically I used PCreator to stick two very small Polies in with a 'null' texture before adding 'Cloud's head' into the third group with it's own texture.
« Last Edit: 2012-05-12 17:18:23 by BlitzNCS »

PitBrat

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #10 on: 2012-05-12 19:35:24 »
Adding the new polygons with a closed eye texture does work for the Cloud model.
I was unable to get it working for Barret.
I'm still  unsure as to how to go about adding groups or changing the group order with Kimera.
Is PCreator the best tool for adding/reordering groups?


Borde

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #11 on: 2012-05-13 22:27:07 »
I can add an option to reorder groups in Kimera if you really need it. But I don't think you really need to go that far. As I told earlier, you can open the HRC file, look for the head bone models list and simply add another model at the begining of the list. For example, for Cloud it would look something like this:

head
chest
6.8333898
2 SOME_FILE AAAF

That should prevent any kind of blinking.

DLPB_

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #12 on: 2012-05-14 10:56:57 »
But is it at all possible to keep the blinking working properly WITH the new models?  Or is this just impossible?

obesebear

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #13 on: 2012-05-14 13:24:46 »
http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=9688.msg160512#msg160512  It's definitely possible.  And for it to look good as well.  Unfortunately, it seems the best way to do it is the double head method.  Replacing the flevel file just has too much lag for some reason.

DLPB_

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #14 on: 2012-05-15 20:27:25 »
Borde cannot help us with the other issue which has also been going a long time.  The new models of Sephiroth have an issue at the temple of the ancients.   Sephiroth turns transparent and his hair goes before his face...  Aali mentioned something about the draw order of the model parts and Borde seems to have said something similar:

Quote
I'm sorry to say I don't think there is a clean way to fix Sephiroth's hair in the temple of the ancients sequence. I think It's a transparency artifact. In order to solve it, the drawing order of the pieces should be changed, but I think that's beyond my knowledge. You should ask Aali, he will provably give you better advice.


DLPB_

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #15 on: 2012-05-17 16:31:30 »
Aali doesn't know either...

He made  a suggestion that the order of the model parts in the hrc file may decide the draw order.. so changing that may work?  If not that, I have no clue.

I cannot understand why the original model does not have this issue, what exactly has changed?  Which file and what code?

Borde

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #16 on: 2012-05-17 18:33:08 »
Actually, I remember seeing that glitch even when I played for the first time around 2000 (obviously with no mods). Maybe it did work correctly with the software renderer?

DLPB_

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Re: Models and Blinking.
« Reply #17 on: 2012-05-17 18:34:30 »
Ah so this is a problem separate to the new models and possibly due to Aali's other explanation that this is to do with how it is handling Z sorting?


I will have to check with the original models again to be sure that it happens there too.  I never used software renderer.