Author Topic: Break 255 MP cost  (Read 9072 times)

Bosola

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #25 on: 2012-10-09 21:12:26 »
Easy way around this is to have some 'rumors' spread by NPCs about this. And the MP cost will always be the same so it's a matter of "remember 2 to 5 values for these spells you will be using a lot to avoid dying". Not to mention that there are much more nasty surprises than that.

True, but I think it could be quite easy to forget these values in the heat of battle. I must admit the 'exhaustion' idea is a nice one, though. Perhaps the penalty could be something other than death, though? Maybe reducing the player's Hero Drink modifier to reduce their stats?

And the alternative is too arduous? Uh, okay. You must have missed the my post? That AI script shouldn't be too big and it's a lot better than what Jenova suggested

The AI script doesn't really work, though. It won't change the MP values displayed in the selection menu and it imposes a nasty cost for exceeding MP limits that most modders probably wouldn't like. The only real way to achieve what the OP wants is by rewriting the way magic is handled, which is... not straightforward.

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #26 on: 2012-10-09 21:23:46 »
At the point of "It can't be done, not the way OP wants to" we started talking about something else, namely, the things I brought up. So if it works for cloudiar has become irrelevant as of a few posts ago.
I think I need to state that, since you're still talking about that.

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True, but I think it could be quite easy to forget these values in the heat of battle.
You can only have 1 of these materia. You will likely want a dedicated Caster like Aerith for them. Unless you're extremely short on MP, the instant death shouldn't become an issue. It can even be used tactically with phoenix pinions or Final Attack. Nightmare ( and OVA is harder difficulty too, but not anywhere close to Nightmare ) is not designed for people who panic easily in battle. and really, once you used the magic a few times, your mind automatically adjust the mp cost to 255 + X

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I must admit the 'exhaustion' idea is a nice one, though. Perhaps the penalty could be something other than death, though? Maybe reducing the player's Hero Drink modifier to reduce their stats?
1C and 15 extra effect parameters ( dragon force, hero drink ) are used too widely and reset upon death. And the idea is that if you cast something you don't have enough magic for, essentially your brain short circuits you. death / knockout. I'm still being nice with this. My first draft of this was to have Mental Destruction cause "Remove from battle and cause death".

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The AI script doesn't really work, though. It won't change the MP values displayed in the selection menu and it imposes a nasty cost for exceeding MP limits that most modders probably wouldn't like.
I already explained in my post that 'hidden' costs are just another facet in the end. It doesn't matter if it's not displayed correctly. And I don't see what you're talking about with the cost for exceeding MP limits here. As in, I literally can't make sense of what you mean.

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The only real way to achieve what the OP wants is by rewriting the way magic is handled, which is... not straightforward.
We both know that won't happen for another decade or so. And that's only if Q-gears is complete then.
As stated above, this has ceased to be just about cloudiar.

NFITC1

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #27 on: 2012-10-09 21:30:27 »
At the point of "It can't be done, not the way OP wants to" we started talking about something else...

At which point this really should have started a new topic. We've answered the OP's question and started talking about your mod. I feel this conversation should be its own thing.

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #28 on: 2012-10-09 21:34:48 »
It's essentially the same thing, isn't it? Just instead of doing nothing, I want to use a work-around. And instead of making yet another thread ( I must have TWENTY or so already in the gameplay forum ) we can continue here.
Did you read my post where I explained the AI effect I'd want to use after you said the AI as OP needs can't be done?

cloudiar

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #29 on: 2012-10-09 22:08:36 »
OMG!!!

Topic continue with life?

I prefer not to speak very much, the english is bad  :-\

But reading all...Conclusion very very very hard!!!

Some solution like, concretely case of modify IA of player:

If ( character.MP >= [desired MP cost] )
{
    character.MP -= [difference in desired cost vs actual in-game cost]
}
else
{


Become in later post the penalty death is very agressive, other solution can to be assign other effect example "death sentence" x_D

I think the logic it would be apply lose %HP penalty.


Science Is Bigoted

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« Reply #30 on: 2012-10-09 22:58:09 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 08:02:30 by Jenova's Witness »

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #31 on: 2012-10-09 23:25:17 »
Man, I almost can't be bothered to quote that now-wall of text. Just gonna pm NFITC1 on this since apparently it's impossible to discuss stuff here.

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I still think that, if the damage done is proportionally the same, then the end result is still the same, and lower stat values gives you more freedom to create uber-enemies without having to know asm.
That's what you believe. I like big numbers. So do others. I cater to the people who like the same thing I like. I have no intention of ever changing that.

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The work would... what?  What does that mean?  If someone provides a spreadsheet, then you still have to plug your values into the spreadsheet?  Or maybe if someone does the work you still get all the credit?  I don't understand what you're saying here.
The concept of "you do this, I do that, because I know how to do that and you know how to do this" seems to be alien to you.
I'm receiving help from multiple people but you are definitely not among them.

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I was trying to imply that you should create a topic and see if someone else was interested.  Since you know so much about the game, then you would be the ideal person to tell others what data they need, and how that data works together, and the other person would then dump and spreadsheet that data, without having to know the context in which it's used (besides what you provide).
Three words: Why would I?
I don't care about this, I'm telling you this for the xth time now. I have absolutely no interest in what you're describing below this.
I don't need spreadsheets. I don't have the time nor the interest to create something entirely unrelated to Nightmare 7. Which this would be. The only thing I need for Nightmare 7 at this point is beta testers, someone who is good with models and texturing and someone really good with AI. No spreadsheets.

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All I did see was a person who spurns all offers of help, either through ignorance of what can be done with a spreadsheet, an unrealistically inflated sense of his own abilities, a lack of maturity, or some kind of personality disorder.
I don't need "help" that won't actually "help" me in any way. I want to use the AI script I outlined previously. I asked NFITC1 if it works the way I outlined. That. is. all.

Oh and by the way, I'm asking plenty of people for help and getting it. It's just that what you're offering is not something I need. Nor is what anyone else but NFITC1 offered in this thread.
And, before I forget
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so I think you're just trying to get me to shut up, as you have no other way to win an argument.
I don't care about you. In any way, positive or negative. You're a distraction in a thread where I tried to get yet another helpful piece of information from NFITC1. That's all there is to that.

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« Reply #32 on: 2012-10-10 00:40:49 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 08:02:38 by Jenova's Witness »

cloudiar

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #33 on: 2012-10-10 01:14:42 »
Jenova's Witness see the website and ... it's impresive!

Very nice ... good work your forum friend, thanks for shared ;)

I try to help the community with some ideas, do not really know a lot of programming, in future I'm sure many will thank contribution.

Always I'm proud of the community, many do an amazing job, people can enjoy the changes and developments.

"Shared" is essential for evolution is true, I support you, but with limits also thinking.


The only thing not to like Is that other person stealing the hard work on the mod (tens of hours, even more), I say steal for a reason, When someone do not ask permission to use a long work in your mod, really sad .

Sometimes I really thinking to cancel the mod, after much time doing work really "personal", and then another day after use without permission.

I am the first to want to share, but not this way.

I say this so that in the future will "protect" the moders work and try to do everything better, probably some may think exactly.

Sorry to say this in here, but to read you and understand something I do think about it, no intention to generalize, it is only a special case, I hope people understand me, I do not want controversy, is only a reflection.
« Last Edit: 2012-10-10 01:20:14 by cloudiar »

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« Reply #34 on: 2012-10-10 01:31:05 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 08:02:47 by Jenova's Witness »

cloudiar

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #35 on: 2012-10-10 02:03:43 »
Jenova's Witness thank you for understand (and understand the english xD)

You said, people can use it, but only one person to understand this rate is sufficient to say  :roll:


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A mod is something you made, it is the result of your hard work and creativity, so you should be the person who says what can be done with it.  That's what I was taught, and that's what I teach others.

This is the most interesting reflection I could see, just really think about it, hacking and everything would be better that way.


I do not want anyone to feel offended, just that things can be done differently.

If a member post a project and want to use your content must ask, always, is really logical.

In my case if you ask me, I would certainly help, but take no permissions is really bad.

It is normal to want first all enjoy my work, absolutely.

Maybe first to do completely new scenes, this is precisely the main issue, people do not do that kind of sequences to be really complicated, very long time too, so personal and unique for another use later, without waiting I finish the mod, logical anger.
« Last Edit: 2012-10-10 02:17:21 by cloudiar »

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #36 on: 2012-10-10 02:28:06 »
FYI, telling others that you've reported them usually results in a warning for trolling.

I see no mention of anything of the sort here
Do you?

Science Is Bigoted

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« Reply #37 on: 2012-10-10 21:30:07 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 08:02:56 by Jenova's Witness »

omega res novae

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #38 on: 2012-10-10 21:40:54 »
sorry jenova i think youre in the wrong here. pretty sure he meant hes going to pm nfitc1 to discuss his mod stuff
not to report you

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« Reply #39 on: 2012-10-10 21:47:33 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 08:03:06 by Jenova's Witness »

Bosola

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #40 on: 2012-10-10 22:59:12 »
Can we please keep this thread to discussing the 255 MP limit?

Thanks.

Tenko Kuugen

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #41 on: 2012-10-11 04:02:00 »
NFITC1 is not a mod, so yeah it wouldn't make a lot of sense to PM him about reports. Not to mention, there is a report function. Pretty sure sending a PM about a report will just result in "use the report system".

Anyway, the only way to go about the 255 MP limit is character AI. There really isn't any other way. At least nothing propable.
NFITC is hopefully gonna get back to me on it some time, but I'll ask NxK too, since he seems to know his way around AI really well.

NFITC1

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #42 on: 2012-10-11 14:51:46 »
Alright, everypony, follow my lead:


DLPB

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Re: Break 255 MP cost
« Reply #43 on: 2012-10-11 14:58:40 »
This is an interesting topic actually, and I want to say the same thing I have been saying all along:

Reinventing the wheel is not clever, it is just reinventing the wheel.  The programming is in place to do exactly what JW suggests... restructure your values to achieve the desired difficulty.  Using asm for every little change to get around this also smacks of laziness.  There is no reason to do half of this recoding when the code already exists. Nobody needs to break HP, level or EXP or anything else.  See BOF III and FF9, for starters.

This is relevant to the 255MP question.  The answer is, don't break it.  Restructure. 
« Last Edit: 2012-10-11 15:00:39 by DLPB »

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« Reply #44 on: 2012-10-11 19:01:45 »
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« Last Edit: 2015-11-16 08:03:12 by Jenova's Witness »