Author Topic: [PC] Mod manager - 7thHeaven (v1.54)  (Read 280836 times)

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #325 on: 2013-08-15 12:43:22 »
No, I'm not really sure it's needed. But some older mods do make use of it seems. I'm working with TA builds and I think the Hi-Res installs things there instead of the mods folder... wish I had 2 more computers. Bootleg copies a lot of things over from the textures folder to the mods folder... which is redundant but the uninstaller is all about redundancy anyways lol.

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #326 on: 2013-08-15 12:46:30 »
If you can point me at a mod which 

-uses the textures folder,
-doesn't work when copied into the modpath folder
-is reasonably easy to test

...then I can download it and add support in, I guess. But if they all work when copied into modpath, I'd stick with that.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #327 on: 2013-08-15 12:47:46 »
The textures method was replaced by mod path  We used to have to modify the .tex in an lgp to point to an external texture to use and put it in that folder. Now mod path does it automatically. No support for this should be added as it was a complicated mess back then and anything new will use mod path.  The original World Map project used this method.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #328 on: 2013-08-15 12:57:28 »
It's not necessary unless we want to be able to replicate old mods in iro form. But I don't know where else to put the files from the Hi-Res menus like the "Field Text" folder and have them work. They don't go into the mods/menu folder like newer fonts.

TA Hi-Res

I think you could literally just install the menus to test it, the textures\Field Text\ folder will contain the fonts responsible for the lettering on the start/continue screen and in order to make them work you just need to disable your menu portion of the modpath (or delete the font files installed in the mod folder by TA GUI v2.0.8 ) This test would probably not be compatible with Menu Overhaul, but maybe...

I think for testing 7thHeaven purposes we should basically always keep MenuOverhaul a separate issue. Luckily, it has it's very own uninstaller...

There is a slight incompatibility between the Team Avalanche GUI and Menu Overhaul that bootleg does not address that I would like to isolate. I suspect it comes from the textures folder somewhere. The mod folder files take precedence over the ones in the textures folder... even if they aren't named the same thing apparently. Like the fonts. The modfolder versions don't have the same name, but they will load instead of the ones in textures folder unless removed. Really interesting.

I like MenuOverhaul very much, and I even paid for my copy, but I wanted to be able to offer alternative options for those menus through 7thHeaven. Particularly since MO has a couple of big impacts on battle behavior (specifically-the critical hit screen flashes and the end of battle black out wont work properly with MO installed). Imo, the best of the non-MO menus--MO's menus are beyond compare visually--comes from the original TA Hi-Res. They scale almost perfectly even at extreme internal resolutions and hardware Anti-Aliasing. I'm editing them to get rid of the few remaining artifacts. The TA GUI menus are much better suited for plain resolutions, but they are a bit cleaner than the earlier version when set up at the proper res.

Since bootleg requires you to install the GUI you don't normally get the option for the original Hi-Res menu fonts, which are hiding in the textures folder.

I'm guessing the only file in the entire structure 7thHeaven can't wrap would be the exe itself?

I guess anything in the Textures folder can be renamed properly and work from the mods folder, but i don't know which is easier to do.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-15 15:20:24 by Template »

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #329 on: 2013-08-15 20:48:48 »
New version v1.10:  https://mega.co.nz/#!yRRikTxI!OWbvaheEnJjlWJizBqN2XXtG1a94lp0_8vLpXhQIl3w

-Fixed crash on certain locales
-Fix version number not being set against manually imported mod
-Right click on Launch button to run game with variable dump option active
-Add MetaVersion tag to catalog mod info

The MetaVersion tag can be set against a mod in a catalog file so you can mark a mod as updated without changing the version number of the download. I realized changing the version number of the download wouldn't really be accurate if you were just updating the download URLs etc. It's optional so doesn't need to be set, just available if necessary.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #330 on: 2013-08-15 21:57:11 »
Cool! OK, so that's a no on the textures folder right? I think I can just figure out what to rename the stuff but it's a bit of a chore.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #331 on: 2013-08-16 07:58:29 »
No support for the textures folder at the moment. I haven't really investigated it yet, although mod path would still be my preferred option if that can work.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #332 on: 2013-08-16 09:23:54 »
Yeah, I got the namechanges from the textures folder worked out, there's only a short list of files. Would have been stupid to make you add texture folder support.  Anyway, if you just do an iro that has the files missing from the modpath, it will use the textures folder instead, but I want all this switching to work theoretically with or without bootleg.I'm just going a lot slower than I thought I could. Lots of work to do. I think as I get a little farther along I'll make a new thread for the Bootleg Catalog Subscription and quit spamming your thread with my project.

I was thinking you might jazz up the top post a little, but it isn't necessary. Maybe just steal screenshots from the rest of the thread?
« Last Edit: 2013-08-16 10:13:08 by Template »

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #333 on: 2013-08-17 17:06:43 »
I've started putting together the Zack flashback mod but I cant find how to enable variable dump to get the PPV's. It's not in the settings or anything.

Kaldarasha

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #334 on: 2013-08-17 18:20:17 »
Use Otyugh to get the PPV value.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #335 on: 2013-08-17 18:53:18 »
Oh ok cool thanks Kaldarasha I'll check that out. So I know you can add files from the mod file to load png textures with 7H, but I was wonder about the pngs actually in the mod file. So I was wondering if I could just cheat and copy the entire mod file. If I did mods\bootleg - with all the other files inside it, and loaded that file into 7H would this work or would it not know what to do with the file since it loads files into this folder?

Iros

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #336 on: 2013-08-18 07:10:57 »
I've started putting together the Zack flashback mod but I cant find how to enable variable dump to get the PPV's. It's not in the settings or anything.

New version v1.10:  https://mega.co.nz/#!yRRikTxI!OWbvaheEnJjlWJizBqN2XXtG1a94lp0_8vLpXhQIl3w

-Fixed crash on certain locales
-Fix version number not being set against manually imported mod
-Right click on Launch button to run game with variable dump option active
-Add MetaVersion tag to catalog mod info


Oh ok cool thanks Kaldarasha I'll check that out. So I know you can add files from the mod file to load png textures with 7H, but I was wonder about the pngs actually in the mod file. So I was wondering if I could just cheat and copy the entire mod file. If I did mods\bootleg - with all the other files inside it, and loaded that file into 7H would this work or would it not know what to do with the file since it loads files into this folder?

Should work fine. A mod basically is just meant to be a copy of either files that would go into a LGP; or files that would go into mods\bootleg - so if you take something that has installed itself into mods\bootleg then all those files pretty much are ready to just put in a folder and tell 7H to import/use it.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #337 on: 2013-08-18 07:32:18 »
That's what I thought, I made a copy of the whole mod file but it crashed the game. I tried just the magic folder as well and the other pngs inside the bootleg folder. Magic was missing, casted thunder without the texture and it gets hung after the enemies disappear. Maybe the folders need to be all lower case or something? I saw a few are upper case. I'll double check my files and try it again.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #338 on: 2013-08-18 13:50:47 »
My Grimmy's Magic iro works fine. I guess I'll test a full mod folder but I'm suspicious about the files that bootleg puts in the mods directory with no folder to put them in.

Mods folder test did not work, immediately you could see the fonts and field files weren't running. This was in iro format. I'll try just folders.

Omzy's Field Pack in iro format works fine. Having multiple instances of 7thHeaven open isn't a good idea, maybe.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-18 14:27:50 by Template »

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #339 on: 2013-08-18 21:10:04 »
So far a full mod file hasn't worked yet. I could probably get the upscaled magic to work. I haven't had a lot of testing time, but I haven't gotten it to work yet. As of now I know for sure the field, battle, and world work fine with 7H. I've noticed that much larger iro's cause a minor delay with ff7music, it's slightly behind the game. I think this is solved simply by dividing iro's into smaller mods like backgrounds and character mods. Otherwise layering multiple mods over top of each other to that point may present a problem.

On the first page it's mentioned that there can be a delay with 7H and that the code could be optimized to correct this for larger mods, is this still a possibility?
« Last Edit: 2013-08-19 17:32:58 by cmh175 »

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #340 on: 2013-08-19 17:28:05 »
I tried Otyugh which has a ton of great features, but I don't see where the PPV's are displayed anywhere. I tried using 7H variable dump, the game runs the same as usual so I assume the info is stored some where so I can see it later, but it's not in the 7thHeaven folder or in the iro library folder. Where does variable dump store everything?

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #341 on: 2013-08-19 21:13:55 »
It outputs it to debug info. So either use dbgview, or ff7music. Since the variables often change, the idea is that you do something in the game that changes it, and then see what the new value is, and then maybe change it again and check the value again.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #342 on: 2013-08-19 21:56:28 »
There's not much I can do with the variables from 7H. The file is massive and too difficult to decipher. All I really need are the Plot Progression Values for when the game loads different characters so I can swap them at particular points in time in the game with 7thHeaven. I'm looking to make an iro that'll replace Cloud with a younger looking model and different clothes for the flashbacks. I'm also going to swap models so only one character has the buster sword at a time. I played through the Zack flashback with variable dump on but cant find the information I need to do this. Is there an easier way to do this or figure it out, or is there another tool that does this much easier?   

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #343 on: 2013-08-19 23:29:16 »
PPV is the game moment progress value in Otyugh.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-20 09:01:15 by Kaldarasha »

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #344 on: 2013-08-20 03:27:56 »
I've been doing some testing and taking note of the ppv and the actual progression of the game, and unfortunately swapping models with 7H based on the ppv isn't very effective. At least depending on what part of the game you're doing this. For example I was going to swap a younger Cloud with different clothes for the Kalm flashback, but the ppv doesn't change based on the scene. When the flash back starts and everyone's in the truck it goes up to 347, but after the fight with the dragon and it goes back to the present and Cloud talks about Sepheroth it goes to 350, but stays there after the flashback continues. I didn't see by how much, but enough that you're swapped models will over lap each other between the past and present. This may work in other parts of the game, but probably only if you're planning to use your conditional model for that whole particular scene. Otherwise this will need to be done with Makou Reactor.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-20 03:41:51 by cmh175 »

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #345 on: 2013-08-20 08:51:28 »
You would probably then need to make the folder conditional on both PPV and FieldID. That should be good enough. That's also why checking the variables using the debug output is probably the way to go: it will tell you every time one of the variables changes, so you can see what the PPV and FieldID values become as you progress through the scenes just by playing them.

If I haven't explained how to do that (which is probably true), then let me know, it is possible.
« Last Edit: 2013-08-20 08:53:39 by Iros »

cmh175

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #346 on: 2013-08-20 13:21:36 »
I'll have to check so I maybe talking out of my ass, but doesn't Cloud tend to have the same field ID of either 0 or 1? I forget which, he's at least listed first. If I'm wrong than that would definitely work, but either way for that to work either the ppv or the id needs to change. I'll look into this more and check out the possibilities.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #347 on: 2013-08-20 13:39:46 »
Iros means the ID of the field, not the ID of the model in the field. :wink:
It would be better to have a Not Active When function.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #348 on: 2013-08-20 13:48:55 »
Oh, that I hadn't thought of. Ok cool, how would something like that be configured? I was thinking combining this with MR may still be a good idea depending on the scene. Like in the Life Stream when there's more than one Cloud on screen in the Nibelheim memories, that way both young and present day Cloud can be used. Unless they already have separate field ID's, than just a 7H script would do the job.

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Re: 7thHeaven
« Reply #349 on: 2013-08-20 21:46:12 »
Iros means the ID of the field, not the ID of the model in the field. :wink:

Correct!

Quote
It would be better to have a Not Active When function.

This is also possible. I should really write some documentation.

However, as a short term fix/explanation:

Code: [Select]
  <Conditional Folder="sewer2">
    <RuntimeVar Var="PPV" Values="300..400" />
  </Conditional>

...is a 'normal' conditional folder. It activates the folder when the variable PPV is between 300-400.

Code: [Select]
  <Conditional Folder="sewer2">
    <Not><RuntimeVar Var="PPV" Values="300..400" /></Not>
  </Conditional>

...reverses the check, so now it's active only when the variable PPV is not between 300-400.

Code: [Select]
  <Conditional Folder="sewer2">
    <And>
      <RuntimeVar Var="PPV" Values="300..400" />
      <RuntimeVar Var="FieldID" Values="213" />
    </And>
  </Conditional>

...combines two checks so the folder is only active when PPV is between 300-400 and FieldID equals 213.

There is also an 'Or' tag, which does what you'd expect. And you can combine them, if you really need to, so,

Code: [Select]
  <Conditional Folder="sewer2">
    <And>
      <Not><RuntimeVar Var="PPV" Values="300..400" /></Not>
      <RuntimeVar Var="FieldID" Values="213" />
    </And>
  </Conditional>

...activates a folder only when PPV is not between 300-400, and the FieldID equals 213.

Oh, that I hadn't thought of. Ok cool, how would something like that be configured? I was thinking combining this with MR may still be a good idea depending on the scene. Like in the Life Stream when there's more than one Cloud on screen in the Nibelheim memories, that way both young and present day Cloud can be used. Unless they already have separate field ID's, than just a 7H script would do the job.

As Kaldarasha said, I don't think you understand what FieldID is. It's the ID of the field location that's currently displayed, so separate models on the same screen can't have 'separate' FieldIDs. The ID doesn't belong to the model in the first place.

What you could do is use counters, as I described for alternating battle models so you got a different battle model each time a particular enemy was loaded. It would work with field models, too.

But which scenes were you thinking of replacing models in, where the same model is used on screen twice, and you want to replace it with two different ones?