Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)  (Read 1083265 times)

Hyperthesis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2500 on: 2016-01-16 20:54:01 »
In other news... I am working through Kaldarasha's flevel fixes and adding where appropriate.  May take some time....

Any chance the issue I reported earlier (about Hojo's animation) is part of that endeavor, or is that an entirely different beast?

Edit: Nevermind, I might have been thinking about char.lgp instead. I'm still learning about which files affect which parts of the game.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-16 20:56:01 by Hyperthesis »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2501 on: 2016-01-16 21:02:43 »
Nothing else could cause it. [on the speed issue]

CladInShadows

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2502 on: 2016-01-17 06:03:15 »
Noticed the discussion on "Climhazzard". My Japanese is fairly average but I know they have the habit of cutting down English words (i.e. "Sando" for Sandwich, "Pasokon" for Personal Computer). Is it possible that the correct translation here is actually "Crim-hazard". I.e. literally an attack that is a hazard to "crims" (criminals). After all, it tends to be the bad guys who are getting sliced open each time Cloud uses it...

Shasta McNasty

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2503 on: 2016-01-17 06:30:18 »
Quote
Noticed the discussion on "Climhazzard". My Japanese is fairly average but I know they have the habit of cutting down English words (i.e. "Sando" for Sandwich, "Pasokon" for Personal Computer). Is it possible that the correct translation here is actually "Crim-hazard". I.e. literally an attack that is a hazard to "crims" (criminals). After all, it tends to be the bad guys who are getting sliced open each time Cloud uses it...

The thing with that is that the original katakana is "kuraimu," not "kurimu," so it makes an "aye" sound.  "Clim" must have been some weird translation/writing hiccup, since it doesn't even really match the katakana.

Shasta McNasty

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2504 on: 2016-01-17 06:47:43 »
By the way, I have some translation notes for you, DLPB.  Take 'em or leave 'em.

1) I didn't grab a screenshot of this like I did for my other notes so this may not be word-for-word, but when you get the Membership Card in Wall Market and then talk to the guy in a suit at the entrance to the Honey Bee Inn, he says something like 'Hey!  What's that thing you've got there in your little, right hand?'  I just thought "little, right hand" seemed like odd/clunky phrasing.  I couldn't think of a replacement for it off the top of my head though.

2) When you talk to Jessie for the last time on the way up the Sector 7 tower, if you choose "I see," she says "...hehe... The cool ex-Soldier.  Always... I liked that... in you."  Gramatically, I think this should be "I always... liked that... in you" or "I always... liked that... about you."  Unless there's a particular reason that's not apparent, it seems like odd/stilted phrasing to have "always" be the first word in that sentence followed by the word "I."  Nobody would really talk like that, unless you left out the "I," i.e. "Always... liked that... about you."

3) On the top of the tower in Sector 7 right before you fight Leno, Tifa says "Better sort our equipment before they attack in full force."  It would make more sense if it were "better sort out our equipment before they attack in full force," or even "better check our equipment before they attack in full force."  Unless this is a British/American thing, in which case, would you mind changing it for the American English option?

4) When you go back to Aerith's house after the plate falls, Barrett says to Elmina, "Sorry.  Marin's my daughter.  I'm really sorry."  He says "sorry" twice, and that makes it seem a little stilted, in my opinion.  If he said "I'm sorry.  Marin's my daughter.  Please forgive me," or something like that, that might be better.

5) I'm not sure if this was an intentional choice, but when Barrett finds Marin upstairs in Aerith's house, he says to Cloud, "If it's Shin-Ra we're up against, I ain't stayin' here quiet.  I'm comin' too!"  A better way to phrase that line might just be "I ain't just gonna stay quiet cooped up in here" or something of the like.

That's all for now.  I have to say, other than the growing pains of getting used to the new names and terminology (Marin instead of Marlene, etc. etc.), this has been a really pleasant translation to read so far.  Way to embarrass the guys who half-assed FF7's original translation over at Square, DLPB 8)
« Last Edit: 2016-01-17 06:51:25 by Shasta McNasty »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2505 on: 2016-01-17 10:29:04 »
@Shasta As said before, I only want bug reports placed here - since it clutters the thread. Localization choices are not bugs and are definitely not going to change.  I've thought about all the lines I have used.  Using 'sorry' twice in one sentence, for example, is perfectly acceptable - and is used in real life numerous times.  It is for emphasis. I've heard it dozens of times in person, as well :)

At the moment, the things I need highlighting are:

Spelling mistakes (should be none of them left, but you never know)
Broken sentences (this happens when I make an edit and my brain decides to read the sentence fine regardless. For example: "What for are you doing?". There shouldn't be any of these left either)
British phrases that don't work in America (example:  Piss about/ Mess about). There shouldn't be any of these left really.... If so, they'll be rare.

Minor grammar issues exist and are being fixed as I walk through the game and record the story.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-17 17:37:25 by DLPB »

Giud

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2506 on: 2016-01-18 07:37:39 »
Hi DLPB, a member on the Insane Difficulty forums instructed me to contact you  regarding a patch that allows players to remove the screen flash that occurs when you land a critical hit in Final Fantasy VII( also when using Limit Breaks), specifically for the PS1 version of the game.  If it's technically possible and you'd be willing to do it, I would definitely make a substantial donation to your Paypal.

Kaldarasha

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2507 on: 2016-01-18 15:31:35 »
The thing is I can't even remember that there is a flash when you landing a critical in the PC version. However a lot of the screen effects aren't present :'(

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2508 on: 2016-01-18 19:43:41 »
Hi DLPB, a member on the Insane Difficulty forums instructed me to contact you  regarding a patch that allows players to remove the screen flash that occurs when you land a critical hit in Final Fantasy VII( also when using Limit Breaks), specifically for the PS1 version of the game.  If it's technically possible and you'd be willing to do it, I would definitely make a substantial donation to your Paypal.

It's def possible but I don't know R3000 assembly... so psx wise - no chance. 

Shasta McNasty

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2509 on: 2016-01-18 20:52:45 »
Quote
@Shasta As said before, I only want bug reports placed here - since it clutters the thread. Localization choices are not bugs and are definitely not going to change.  I've thought about all the lines I have used.  Using 'sorry' twice in one sentence, for example, is perfectly acceptable - and is used in real life numerous times.  It is for emphasis. I've heard it dozens of times in person, as well :)

At the moment, the things I need highlighting are:

Spelling mistakes (should be none of them left, but you never know)
Broken sentences (this happens when I make an edit and my brain decides to read the sentence fine regardless. For example: "What for are you doing?". There shouldn't be any of these left either)
British phrases that don't work in America (example:  Piss about/ Mess about). There shouldn't be any of these left really.... If so, they'll be rare.

Minor grammar issues exist and are being fixed as I walk through the game and record the story.

Ok, fine, but from our (Americans') perspective, some of these COULD be broken sentences or British/American differences (like the 'let's sort our equipment.'  Nobody in America says that in that context.  I have no idea if that's what they say in the UK or not.)  Because most or all of the Americans posting here haven't ever really been exposed to British English other than watching Gordon Ramsay call restaurateurs 'donkeys' and 'pillocks,' most of us have to guess if an oddity in the script is due to British/American language differences or if it's just a quirky/different/particular way of saying things that you've chosen as part of the localization.  I'll knock it off with the pointing out things are obviously just localization choices, but in some cases there's just no way to know if it's a localization choice vs. an American/British language difference if you're not a native Brit.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-18 21:01:48 by Shasta McNasty »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2510 on: 2016-01-18 21:01:43 »
"sorting" something is definitely not specific to Britain.  We wouldn't say "Sort our equipment" either... because there is no time in an ordinary person's life where they will be equipping some sort of gear.  It's very rare that you'll see that.

It's getting a little excessive when a perfectly normal word like sorting has to be changed, I feel. Although this may come across to an American more strangely than to a brit.

Nevertheless, missing "I" and "that" are absolutely normal.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-18 21:04:35 by DLPB »

Covarr

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2511 on: 2016-01-18 21:14:21 »
It is worth noting that the US and UK use slightly different definitions of "sort". Here in the US, it's used pretty strictly in its most literal definition, like to sort words alphabetically, etc. If it's going to be used in the context of "making sure everything is how it should be" but not literal sorting, we would say "sort out".

I didn't bring this up in proof checking this scene because I assumed it was meant literally in this context.

Shasta McNasty

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2512 on: 2016-01-19 02:10:10 »
Quote
The employee that gives you the keycard to the 68th floor says:

"...
  I only did what Dr Hojo told me to do."

Dr -> Dr.

That is assuming you consider abbreviations to have periods; otherwise, ignore post.

Quote
That's an American / British thing and is changed by the option.

I encountered this issue as well after choosing the American English option.  Did you mean the period will be added by the American English option in the next version of the patch?

Shasta McNasty

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2513 on: 2016-01-19 02:19:39 »
Quote
It is worth noting that the US and UK use slightly different definitions of "sort". Here in the US, it's used pretty strictly in its most literal definition, like to sort words alphabetically, etc. If it's going to be used in the context of "making sure everything is how it should be" but not literal sorting, we would say "sort out".

Exactly.  This is a perfect example of something that can look like a localization choice, but is actually a subtle difference between British and American English.

By the way, I've come across some more script issues that appear to be typos, or possibly differences between British and American English.

1) In Hojo's Shin-Ra lab right after freeing Aerith and Red XIII, Barrett says "No need to be in this buildin' now we've saved Aerith.  We're gettin' the hell outta here!"  This sentence is missing the word "that," i.e. "now that we've saved Aerith.  If it's a localization choice to make Barrett sound a little more brusque by leaving "that" out then my mistake, but in American English we don't often leave that word out in this context; it makes things sound stilted without it.

2) When your party confronts Rufus on the roof of the Shin-Ra building, Tifa says in response to Rufus saying he's nothing like his father, "Well, you're no different to him when it comes to speeches."  In American English we would say "Well, you're no different than him when it comes to speeches," or "Well, you're no different than he is/was when it comes to speeches."

3) When first entering Kalm, one of the townspeople says "Thanks to the Shin-Ra Company's Mako energy our lives are much easier nowadays."  There's a missing comma after "energy," unless this is a stylistic choice.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-19 03:34:43 by Shasta McNasty »

Covarr

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2514 on: 2016-01-19 05:12:55 »
2) When your party confronts Rufus on the roof of the Shin-Ra building, Tifa says in response to Rufus saying he's nothing like his father, "Well, you're no different to him when it comes to speeches."  In American English we would say "Well, you're no different than him when it comes to speeches," or "Well, you're no different than he is/was when it comes to speeches."
"Than" is more common in American English, but "to" is still used here. It might be regional in the US, but I know I've heard it IRL.

3) When first entering Kalm, one of the townspeople says "Thanks to the Shin-Ra Company's Mako energy our lives are much easier nowadays."  There's a missing comma after "energy," unless this is a stylistic choice.
So many hours have been spent on commas, more than you can possibly imagine. This is a case where, as best I can tell, a comma would commonly be used, but might be technically incorrect; since there's only one clause, no lists, and strictly vital information, the comma would be omitted. There are so many corner cases it's hard to keep track of what's right and what's wrong.

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2515 on: 2016-01-19 19:08:43 »
Even if they don't work in America, they are still localization choices. We aren't talking about "wrong" English here.  The sentence is not bad or wrong English, and the words and phrases are in the dictionary. Anything particularly British can have an option but only because this is not my work.  All original writers write how THEY want. Tolkien and Rowling would not change a sentence simply because an American might not like it, and nor would an American writer for a Briton.

Also, I've asked 3 times now that grammar issues (especially commas etc) not be noted.  There are tons of minor issues (missing "that" isn't one of them - that's perfectly acceptable English) with them that are being corrected.  If you made a full list of comma splices, the list would be over 50 entries alone. This is being corrected at the same time as the Japanese proof check.  And it's being done in stages.  After that, even minor comma issues that exist will be ignored because there will always be something.  If you pick up any large professional novel, you will find comma issues (I've been reading A Song of Ice and Fire recently - and the writer does as he pleases regarding grammar a lot of the time). There is really no way to iron out every one of them - many of them that aren't strictly incorrect.  But, certainly, the last revision will fix the large majority of issues.

Quote
At the moment, the things I need highlighting are:

Spelling mistakes (should be none of them left, but you never know)
Broken sentences (this happens when I make an edit and my brain decides to read the sentence fine regardless. For example: "What for are you doing?". There shouldn't be any of these left either)
British phrases that don't work in America (example:  Piss about/ Mess about). There shouldn't be any of these left really.... If so, they'll be rare.

Quote
I encountered this issue as well after choosing the American English option.  Did you mean the period will be added by the American English option in the next version of the patch?

It's been fixed in R04d (somehow it was absent in previous versions).
« Last Edit: 2016-01-19 20:56:32 by DLPB »

Shasta McNasty

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2516 on: 2016-01-20 13:21:11 »
Quote
Even if they don't work in America, they are still localization choices. We aren't talking about "wrong" English here.  The sentence is not bad or wrong English, and the words and phrases are in the dictionary. Anything particularly British can have an option but only because this is not my work.  All original writers write how THEY want. Tolkien and Rowling would not change a sentence simply because an American might not like it, and nor would an American writer for a Briton.

Also, I've asked 3 times now that grammar issues (especially commas etc) not be noted.  There are tons of minor issues (missing "that" isn't one of them - that's perfectly acceptable English) with them that are being corrected.  If you made a full list of comma splices, the list would be over 50 entries alone. This is being corrected at the same time as the Japanese proof check.  And it's being done in stages.  After that, even minor comma issues that exist will be ignored because there will always be something.  If you pick up any large professional novel, you will find comma issues (I've been reading A Song of Ice and Fire recently - and the writer does as he pleases regarding grammar a lot of the time). There is really no way to iron out every one of them - many of them that aren't strictly incorrect.  But, certainly, the last revision will fix the large majority of issues.

Alright alright alright, jeez.

Shasta McNasty

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2517 on: 2016-01-20 14:14:00 »
Quote
Even if they don't work in America, they are still localization choices. We aren't talking about "wrong" English here.  The sentence is not bad or wrong English, and the words and phrases are in the dictionary. Anything particularly British can have an option but only because this is not my work.  All original writers write how THEY want. Tolkien and Rowling would not change a sentence simply because an American might not like it, and nor would an American writer for a Briton.

Quote
At the moment, the things I need highlighting are:

Spelling mistakes (should be none of them left, but you never know)
Broken sentences (this happens when I make an edit and my brain decides to read the sentence fine regardless. For example: "What for are you doing?". There shouldn't be any of these left either)
British phrases that don't work in America (example:  Piss about/ Mess about). There shouldn't be any of these left really.... If so, they'll be rare.

These contradict each other.  You're asking the people who read this board to help you point out the British words and phrases in the script that don't work in American English and then saying 'they're localization choices' and expressing annoyance over people pointing out the things you just asked them to point out.  As I've tried to explain, we have no way of knowing what you would consider a 'localization choice' vs. a British/American difference inside your head.  So which do you want-- do you want us to point these out, or do you want us to not point these out.

If you want people's help, be clear, and be nice if they're trying to do what you're asking for.  Or don't ask for it at all.

Commas?  Fine, I forgot about that one.  My bad.  I won't mention them anymore.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-20 15:00:56 by Shasta McNasty »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2518 on: 2016-01-20 18:37:15 »
Point it out only if it is definitely specific to Britain and not America as a whole (doing a Google search can usually help here and show you who is using the phrase - like news networks).  Your contributions above are often local to parts of America and you are assuming because YOU have not heard it that the rest of America hasn't. 

But perhaps it is best that only Covarr brings the America / British thing up - he understands language better than most and when it is a genuine case of America v Britain.  So from now on - basically I only need to know:

a. Issues where the sentence is grammatically incorrect - that does not mean missing "that" or "I" where the sentence still makes sense for normal everyday speech.
b. Spelling mistakes.

Both of these issues should be to a bare minimum. Even though I am going through the text again as I finalize in parts, it's better if these are pointed out.

I am not sure if Covarr would mind you pming him with issues you believe are America v Britain but are unsure - but the problem for me is this thread is getting bogged down.
« Last Edit: 2016-01-21 21:44:03 by DLPB »

rotschleim

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2519 on: 2016-01-26 09:02:47 »
Hello there, DLPB! I've been enjoying the retranslation a lot, but I have some questions that I was hoping would be answered if it's OK. Not trying to be confrontational; I feel like when I come in and try to ask some questions, I'm often met with hostility because the questions are being read as demands, when in reality I am legitimately just asking the thought process behind things.

With that hopefully clearly put on the table, here's what I wanted to ask. For the record, I picked incorrect character names and series standard spell/item names.

1. I checked Sephiroth's spell list in the flashback to Niblheim, and he had Rise and Arise. The thing is though, Rise should be Raise; is there a reason it's Rise, like maybe do you like it better spelled like that?
2. This one I'm really curious on--why is Summon abbreviated as "Sum"? It looks kind of awkward. Can command menus not auto-resize anymore due to the menu cleanup mod?

This is fantastic and I do apologize if my questions seem rude or out of turn; as earlier stated, that wasn't my intent at all! I'm so happy that I can finally understand the plot of Final Fantasy VII. :) Thanks for your time; have a nice day.

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2520 on: 2016-01-26 10:58:36 »
Quote
1. I checked Sephiroth's spell list in the flashback to Niblheim, and he had Rise and Arise. The thing is though, Rise should be Raise; is there a reason it's Rise, like maybe do you like it better spelled like that?

This has been talked about before - not sure how easy it is to find it on this thread, but it's a large conversation about it. Also, the non dialogue blue, white, and orange entries are finalized.  See the non dialogue database on the main post.

Quote
2. This one I'm really curious on--why is Summon abbreviated as "Sum"? It looks kind of awkward. Can command menus not auto-resize anymore due to the menu cleanup mod?

Size limit.  There's nothing I can do about it sadly... the design of the menu means increasing it leaves a huge gap that makes the menu look awful.  Auto size is too hard to program for the main menu.


There's nothing wrong with your questions.  If I am sometimes grouchy, it's because I have gone through a question numerous times :)

rotschleim

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2521 on: 2016-01-28 10:41:39 »
I managed to find it! I can see and understand your reasoning, though I don't necessarily agree with it. I appreciate the thought process put into it. :) I'll live with it. As for Sum, did you think about adding a period to the end of it at one point? I know you're not gonna fuss with a whole new release for a single period though. I don't expect you to. :P

Thanks for being so kind! I know I'm a relatively unknown user barging into your topic demanding explanations, so I appreciate it. :)

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2522 on: 2016-01-28 11:07:41 »
Adding a full stop only makes it look worse and means you have to add one to "D. Blow" and so on.  It looks v untidy.

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2523 on: 2016-01-28 19:50:41 »
OK, this is more of a question regarding the Menu Overhaul specifically. Is there a reason it calculates attack differently? When I use the retranslation, the attack stat is the same as a vanilla copy in the same situation, but it's different when using ff7_mo.exe.
Is there a specific reason for this, is it an error, or is there something else I'm missing?

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R04c)
« Reply #2524 on: 2016-01-28 19:58:00 »
There is no ff7_mo.exe ?  Also attack calculations are totally unaltered by Reunion R04.  Or - they should be.

MO and Menu Enhancement do not touch the calculations.