Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Tool - The Reunion (21st October)  (Read 1411007 times)

Hyperthesis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3325 on: 2017-02-02 12:56:22 »
Can someone help me understand what the Anxious Heart mod does at present? I was under the impression it replaced FF7PC' s midis with Ogg files that more faithfully resembled the PSX versions. However, didn't Square-Enix update the Steam release with their own Ogg versions? I guess I'm not clear on how Anxious Heart is an improvement.

Kaldarasha

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3326 on: 2017-02-02 13:48:57 »
SE did a sloppy job. As every amateur they did the same mistake and used for cintro.ogg the beginning of cephiros.ogg. BUT the real cintro track on PSX has only every 12s the bell sound and not every 6s. This change absolutely the ambience of the Shin-Ra mansion. There are more tracks, which are not correct. I can't say something about the quality of SE's oggs, but Anixious Heart was available to download (with the correct cintro) ways before SE's ogg patch.

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3327 on: 2017-02-02 13:55:40 »
Square enix didn't do anything. Aali did.  His driver added support for OGG music - which was then used in the Steam version (which is Aali's driver converted to use Directx and not Opengl). Their version of the OGGs was also crap and didn't come from the OST either, I don't think.

Read Anxious Heart's thread. The info on what it does is all there.

But this new DLL I have made will replace Aali's driver for the music entirely, whilst also replacing all of FF7s sound functions with mine.  That means sound effect OGGs will be used instead.

I am not adding all of Anxious Heart to The Reunion. I am adding ONLY the original OST music (I think....). Anxious Heart comes with fan versions of the tracks. Anxious Heart will be updated too.  I'm adding AH to The Reunion.
« Last Edit: 2017-02-02 14:02:04 by DLPB »

Covarr

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3328 on: 2017-02-02 15:56:14 »
Their version of the OGGs was also crap and didn't come from the OST either, I don't think.
They were game rips from an emulator. Unfortunately not a terribly accurate emulator, by the sound of it.

edit: I see you're removing the AH installer in seven days. Does that mean you plan to have R06 out by then? Or are you going to leave people who want a music mod in the lurch during the gap between AH's removal and R06's release?
« Last Edit: 2017-02-02 15:57:53 by Covarr »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3329 on: 2017-02-02 16:04:31 »
That's a good point.  I should have it done within 7 days, but if not I'll leave the installer up until I have.  I think it's torrent anyway.

Hyperthesis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3330 on: 2017-02-03 00:35:26 »
I am not adding all of Anxious Heart to The Reunion. I am adding ONLY the original OST music (I think....). Anxious Heart comes with fan versions of the tracks. Anxious Heart will be updated too.  I'm adding AH to The Reunion.

"Fan versions"? I assume these arrangements will be optional so that purists, like me, can enjoy the original OST?

Salk

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3331 on: 2017-02-03 06:26:41 »
"Fan versions"? I assume these arrangements will be optional so that purists, like me, can enjoy the original OST?

Anxious Heart lets you choose between the original music and the third party reorchestration. Myself, I will go for the original too.

ThunderPeel2001

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3332 on: 2017-02-05 14:49:57 »
Hi there, sorry if this has been asked before, but what's with the lack of a space between letters and commas? I assume that was an earlier mistake in Beacause and not actually something that's in the final translation? Sorry if this has been asked before. It's been years since I was last here!

Edit: I have a strange feeling I've already asked about this and it was fixed previously.
« Last Edit: 2017-02-05 15:48:36 by ThunderPeel2001 »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3333 on: 2017-02-05 16:46:36 »
The lack of space in script is deliberate and is not there when you go into the game. It's never been a bug. It is to save a character because the menu has a limit. Every character counts. It's also to ensure that the space in game looks nice and not too wide, like it would if a real space were added. Before asking questions or making bug reports, make sure that the bug exists in game - Also check The Reunion Database.

In other news, I have almost finished the full replacement of audio in FF7.  Creating all 700+ OGGs will take longer, but it is all working more or less. Music and SFX are working - and the wav files like "Wind.wav" are now where they should be - in my music folder converted to OGG.

My method fixed the missing looping effects when battle ends.  But somehow I've broken it again :P  So I'll have to find out why they aren't starting again after battle.

The panning of audio may be a problem though.  I don't think PC version is giving out the correct values.  I'll have to check PSX version again.  But if they both do what I am hearing, then that's a rather shitty piece of original coding. For example, Cloud on the right, enemy on the left: When Cloud uses magic, the balance should be to the far right - and the effect itself should be to the far left.  But that ain't what I am seeing.  It seems to be all over the place.

Also, I don't think battle sets a moving balance as the camera moves.  I *think* it only supports a dead set balance on effect start - unlike Field which sets balance transitions.  Battle could do this as well, by using AKAO function... but I haven't seen it do that.  Unless it's calling one of the descendant functions directly.  That's something I am going to have to toil with.  :evil:

In fact, so far, the only battle effects that I have seen using AKAO directly are the boss and enemy death  SFX.
« Last Edit: 2017-02-05 16:56:23 by DLPB »

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3334 on: 2017-02-05 20:37:58 »
Creating all 700+ OGGs will take longer

You are going from midi with a homebaked soundbank to OGG right? I could make you a script for this

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3335 on: 2017-02-05 20:53:36 »
No, I've already recorded them using mednafen from the actual PSX game. They will sound virtually identical to PSX.  I need to edit them now and loop the ones that need looping.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3336 on: 2017-02-05 21:15:09 »
I got excited there for a second. Someday I will sample those PSX midi instruments. Good luck with all that editing

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3337 on: 2017-02-05 21:19:37 »
I'll need it. :P

Sampling the midi instruments won't help you unless you plan on recreating the sound creator itself - meaning AKAO's program to form the sounds - and the sound chip of the PS1. It's basically a custom PSF for each effect.  And we're still not sure where the data to create them comes from. Probably the PSX exe.

« Last Edit: 2017-02-05 21:21:27 by DLPB »

Ver Greeneyes

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3338 on: 2017-02-05 21:39:09 »
Pity they don't use something like the Sappy engine used by many GBA games. But I guess the Playstation long predates that kind of standardization.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3339 on: 2017-02-05 23:09:25 »
I'll need it. :P

Sampling the midi instruments won't help you unless you plan on recreating the sound creator itself - meaning AKAO's program to form the sounds - and the sound chip of the PS1. It's basically a custom PSF for each effect.  And we're still not sure where the data to create them comes from. Probably the PSX exe.



My plan would be to modify one of the midi files in the PSX disc to play tones of each instrument in isolation, record the sound to flac, and then use some fancy sampling software to make a Kontakt instrument. Then the PC midi would be identical to PSX, or almost identical to it. There's a lot of instruments.

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3340 on: 2017-02-05 23:12:38 »
There aren't any midi files in ff7 PSX for the sound effects. Akao wrote a program to create the file effect from samples.  It's literally impossible to recreate the sound without recreating his program and how the PS1 sound chip uses the data it is supplied. It's not a case of "finding a midi" - none exists.  Nothing exists at all except for a few samples and the program he wrote to tell the PS1 sound chip how to make those samples play - and his program uses jumps and all sorts.
« Last Edit: 2017-02-05 23:15:07 by DLPB »

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3341 on: 2017-02-05 23:20:07 »
There aren't any midi files in ff7 PSX for the sound effects. Akao wrote a program to create the file effect from samples.  It's literally impossible to recreate the sound without recreating his program and how the PS1 sound chip uses the data it is supplied. It's not a case of "finding a midi" - none exists.  Nothing exists at all except for a few samples and the program he wrote to tell the PS1 sound chip how to make those samples play - and his program uses jumps and all sorts.

If I can get the PSX to play the effects in isolation, then I can sample them perfectly.

Actually, if you have a recording of these effects in isolation, I can sample them and make a PSX parity soundbank
« Last Edit: 2017-02-05 23:23:34 by KnifeTheSky77 »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3342 on: 2017-02-05 23:29:54 »
It depends what you mean.  If the full effect has been played then that's what I am doing... recording the full effect.

But what you said before was each "tone" in isolation.  It isn't possible to do that with FF7s effects. They come together in Akao's program. Even if you could somehow disable that behaviour so that each "tone" is separate... the work involved would be more than just doing what I've done.

But there isn't any separate tone.  To give you an idea of how his program works, you might see something similar to this:

LABEL1
LoadEffect1
ApplyPitch 1.2245
Enable Reverb
PlayEffect 2.222 (time)
inc(x)

if x = 1 then
Goto label1

[do more stuff here]

and so on.  It's a script he made up to do whatever he wanted.  Effect1 can be made to sound like 1000 different things by applying different pitch effects, reverb, and so on.


But if you have some other idea in mind I'd like to see a working example.  Because I don't see how it's possible in FF7's case and I'd be interested to see how.  8)

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3343 on: 2017-02-05 23:32:29 »
Are you going to make the recordings available?

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3344 on: 2017-02-05 23:34:45 »
Yes.  The OGGs will of course come with Reunion R06. But the original recordings 44100 stereo 16 bit MS PCM (compressed 7zip ~500 MB) I'll make public at some point.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3345 on: 2017-02-05 23:42:20 »
I'd really like those :-)

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3346 on: 2017-02-06 14:12:12 »
I'm working on the logger now. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4T5Gy6MVEI

This will prove useful for debugging and especially naming all the effect files.  For example, here's the sequence with HADES (I'm using time stamp of quarter second windows internal timer until I can figure out something better).


Code: [Select]
32177.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 660]
32177.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 661]
32177.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 662]


32225.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 663]
32225.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 664]
32225.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 665]


32252.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 666]
32252.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 667]
32252.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 668]


32272.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 669]
32272.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 670]
32272.SetEffect [Channel 4, Balance 64, Effect 671]


32294.SetEffect [Channel 3, Balance 0, Effect 448]

Where Effect 448 is Midgardsormr death. Notice that Hades plays three effects in tandem. This is to give the sound more depth. Since I am using Bass for sound now, I can dump them all on the same channel and they all play fine (I'll be using channel 6 from now on).  This isn't the case with the field - those need to obey the correct channels because of looping effects and dedicated channel volumes and transitions.  I don't think battle does any of that, so we should be safe.

Effect 448 uses AKAO function, hence it is placed on a specific channel.
« Last Edit: 2017-02-06 14:50:10 by DLPB »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3347 on: 2017-02-07 00:36:06 »
Ha!  I forgot that Opcode FE doesn't work anymore when you do away with Aali's driver and the Midis, meaning going to sleep, for example, would just skip the delay and the sleep music (not to mention the Chocobo Dance).

http://wiki.qhimm.com/view/FF7/Field/Script/Opcodes/FE_CHMST

Fixed my own up.  Very simple replacement.

shikun

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3348 on: 2017-02-10 16:16:58 »
Hey there, I'm that guy who complained about the Reeve scene on Youtube (sorry again for being so flippant and rude about it)... I've been playing through the game with the translation now, and I must say I pretty much love it, it's amazing how much better the storyline is with 100% more coherence lmao

There are a few things I have noticed though:
-  During the scene where Cait Sith reveals he's a spy, Tifa (if she was the date) reacts by saying "I don't think so!", which doesn't make much sense. In Japanese she says "fuzakanaide yo!" which literally means "don't mess around" but can also be translated idiomatically to "you're kidding me!" or "you have to be kidding!": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sP-RZ-9nRQ (scene appears at 23:08 for reference)
- I'm still 100% sure that during the Reeve scene, it is indeed the staff talking in the see-through dialogue boxes, given the scene in the Japanese version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_QEN2xnpDE (Reeve's name is not attached to the see-through boxes, and only remote/indistinct voices have used those see-through boxes earlier in the game. He also does not say "hello. what?" in the Japanese version; he says "The mainframe? Who!?" immediately after the see-through boxes.)

I'll tell you if I notice anything else!


« Last Edit: 2017-02-10 16:23:20 by shikun »

DLPB

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods - The Reunion (R05c)
« Reply #3349 on: 2017-02-10 16:59:30 »
Yes, thank you very much for that other correction and sticking around to help.  Most people (all of them but you, so far) are never heard from again after I ask them to come here and offer corrections.  The scene you mentioned with Hojo has been fixed as follows: http://forums.qhimm.com/index.php?topic=14914.msg246848#msg246848

That should have already taken care of all the issues, including the one you have just noted.  I will be looking over that scene one last time, though, because "The reactors' output" and "Shut it off" don't follow properly.  Reeve is explaining that the reactors are out of control, is asked to shut "it" off, and then mentions the main controls. One correction there may be for Scarlet to say "Shut it all off!" I am unsure what he means by "I can't! It's not responding." He has to mean the main controls aren't responding - but "it" doesn't work nice here either.  So, perhaps, "There's no response."  Japanese is such a tough language to get a handle on when translating (seen how Luksy tangles with it all) and localizing.  That's what I've found.  It's a nightmare.

I'm sure you are right on the Tifa dialogue, too.  If you are up for proof checking the whole script, this can be done. So far, I have asked two people to do this, but they dropped out almost immediately after the script was made available.  It isn't a huge task to go through both Japanese script and our script as a proof checker - but it will take some time.

This project does need a second look by a Japanese reader. There should only be pretty minor issues left now, but you just never know.  And I want all the minor things sorting too—like the one you have just informed me of.




« Last Edit: 2017-02-11 02:07:00 by DLPB »