Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] Multiple mods and Modding Framework-The Reunion [R06f]  (Read 1997191 times)

urgdfriend

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none the less, its the country and version of english the game was made for, we (along with Japan) made square the money they needed to even make this game, and reunion takes american sounding characters and makes them into british sounding characters

...and it doesnt need to
No, Thats not really the case at all.. The english release was for all countries that speak english, And out of ALL of them, Only America uses a different version of english. Don't even try that. Canada, Does not use american english, This is the version we got as well. This was the version Europe got for its english majority countries. The original release was a universal translation that happened to be done in america. Yes. They read different then they did in the original release. But everything was butchered anyway cause there were subjects that at the time required censorship. This translation is actually truer to the japanese version and not what people consider a "ted woolsey" translation that adds in american references to make up for japanese ones.
« Last Edit: 2020-06-14 23:51:17 by urgdfriend »

-Ori

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No, Thats not really the case at all.. The english release was for all countries that speak english, And out of ALL of them, Only America uses a different version of english. Don't even try that. Canada, Does not use american english, This is the version we got as well. This was the version Europe got for its english majority countries. The original release was a universal translation that happened to be done in america. Yes. They read different then they did in the original release. But everything was butchered anyway cause there were subjects that at the time required censorship. This translation is actually truer to the japanese version and not what people consider a "ted woolsey" translation that adds in american references to make up for japanese ones.

all i know is the original ps1 version had done american english dialogue pretty well (with the exception of the horrible typos and misspellings)

reunion replaces all the american idioms and dialect and replaces them with british ones, and the american translation option does not bring them back

this is irrefutable and if you have not spoken with people from america you have no say in this

urgdfriend

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all i know is the original ps1 version had done american english dialogue pretty well (with the exception of the horrible typos and misspellings)

reunion replaces all the american idioms and dialect and replaces them with british ones, and the american translation option does not bring them back

this is irrefutable and if you have not spoken with people from america you have no say in this
I... Have, And this is not and never has been a retranslation of the english version. It's always been a more literal translation of the japanese script. And to be completely honest, I would rather an english translation that the rest of the world follows instead of one that just "ONE" Country follows. I have spoken with english speaking people from all around the world, Including America, And even my girlfriend who IS american agrees that it doesn't even freaking matter. If you have a problem that You translate the japanese script and make a american translation. Hell Reunions mod framework even freaking allows it.

-Ori

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And to be completely honest, I would rather an english translation that the rest of the world follows instead of one that just "ONE" Country follows.

you do have it, and its easily possible to have both without that much work, that's my point

And even my girlfriend who IS american agrees that it doesn't even freaking matter.
::)
« Last Edit: 2020-06-15 00:04:13 by Orichalcon »

urgdfriend

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you do have it, and its easily possible to have both without that much work, that's my point
That in itself is fair, But heres the thing that kinda pushes the idioms. DLPB and the other translator are NOT american. They would need someone from America to come in and work on the script. Which can be done after the current translation is done. The reason its not done now is because it adds even more development time, DLPB Wanted R07 with the completed translation to be done before FFVIIR was done.. 
@DLPB If I was any good at coding or that kind of work I would offer, But As I made aware on discord before the channel was pulled (speaking of which I don't have you on discord) The most I can do is relentlessly bash my face into the bugs until I find the exact point things fail..
« Last Edit: 2020-06-15 00:09:59 by urgdfriend »

-Ori

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DLPB and the other translator are NOT american.

trust me, you didn't have to tell me that  :wink:

and the rest of that is fair, i didnt say i was mad about it, its just the biggest problem in reunion (for me) right now

and despite this, i still enjoy the translation very much and do think it is really good

DLPB_

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I did work with Covarr with Americanisms and when one is clearly wrong it is changed.  The problem is that bringing line after line to this thread is not a good idea.  We'll never stop. So if it is a case of something clearly being wrong - then I am all ears - but not when no Google search has been done and when it turns out 10 States in the US actually use the phrase /word.

Let's also remember that the American option is a kindness I added.  I did not have to do it.

I am also not sure what this idiom argument is as British English shares almost all of them with American.
« Last Edit: 2020-06-15 00:27:30 by DLPB »

urgdfriend

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Mods have always been and will always be passion projects. The dev will always do what he/she wants to see done in the game, Before adding things for others.

-Ori

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I did work with Covarr with Americanisms and when one is clearly wrong it is changed.  The problem is that bringing line after line to this thread is not a good idea.  We'll never stop. So if it is a case of something clearly being wrong - then I am all ears - but not when no Google search has been done and when it turns out 10 States in the US actually use the phrase /word.

Let's also remember that the American option is a kindness I added.  I did not have to do it.

I am also not sure what this idiom argument is as British English shares almost all of them with American.




but not when no Google search has been done

when it comes to the 'what a nerve' thing, i did think the a was an accidental typo, because i'd never heard that before, i wasnt necessarily trying to say it was grammatically incorrect
regardless i knew what i was seeing was off somehow  :-D

it turns out 10 States in the US actually use the phrase /word.

you must not be talking about anything i pointed out, this is also the reason why i tried to focus on what i've never heard, rather than how it should read (in some places the original game got the dialect right and it was changed, because it sounded weird to you guys, which is to be expected as you guys are not american)

Let's also remember that the American option is a kindness I added.  I did not have to do it.

thats the selfish attitude everyone keeps talking about  :wink:

i already pointed out what i think are the major offenders, but with a slight edit of roughly 50-100 lines or so (estimation, but obviously a tiny number compared to how many lines are in the game) you could really transform this translation for quite a few americans that care about this sort of thing

and i only say put this on the backburner, i understand actual compatibility has to come before this stuff

DLPB_

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If you want to pursue this American thing then after R07 is released, go through the game/text and document everything - and I'll supply to Covarr to review.   That's reasonable but the window will not be months - as translation changes will be locked not long after.

sithlord48

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FYI i was responding to this.
Btw your links both are talking about GPL2 not GPL3.. the pdf came out in 2006 and the GPL3 was released in 2007 And FFMpeg specifically says GPL 2.1. None of it applies to GPL3.
Quote
Important.  Please read.
The GPL license, included with the OpenGL "aali.dll" source code, should be seen for what it is:  A nasty, spiteful, little document that goes well beyond ensuring fair play and encouraging collaboration within open projects and, instead, encourages draconian laws and punishments, while giving the jobsworth types a jackboot to wear.

Any document as long as that "license" should be seen for the snake it is - It also gives very vindictive people a weapon to use in order to force programmers into releasing all their hard work to the public - whether they want to or not.  This has already been attempted in regards to The Reunion.

A member of Qhimm.com, quantumpencil threatened legal action if 2 external calls to Aali.dll from ddraw.dll were not removed.  If this wasn't done, he demanded that my own code source (ddraw.dll - written entirely in Borland Delphi) be turned over.  GPL was used as a political football to get at my own hard work, which is a completely separate executable and entity to aali.dll.  The moderators of Qhimm.com felt they couldn't take the risk that this lunatic was being serious and so forced The Reunion mod offline until the "offending" code was removed and the full source for aali.dll be made public (something I've never been against - since it's 95% other people's work).    Indeed, the fork that quantumpencil uses is based on a build of Aali's Opengl DLL by Luksy, with fixes by myself and Maki.  I supplied this to quantumpencil openly and he and True Odin agreed to help improve the code and work with The Reunion.  Within a week, they had reneged on this agreement and created their own fork.  We now have more confusion and division than ever.  There is no legal precedent that a closed source program that calls external functions from an open source program must also be open source.  The fact that the GPL community is openly debating it should tell you something. 

https://courses.cs.washington.edu/courses/cse490t/11sp/docs/DerivativeWorksGPL.pdf
chapter 3.4
In  short,  the  debate  over  static  and  dynamic  linking  simply  misses  the  mark.  As  we shall  see  in  our  next  example,  using  inter-module  communication  as  the  basis  for  a derivative work analysis will lead frequently to counter-intuitive and nonsensical results.

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1394623/can-i-dynamically-call-a-lgpl-gpl-software-in-my-closed-source-application
it is not clear whether an executable that dynamically links to a GPL code should be considered a derivative work (see Weak Copyleft). The free/open-source software community is split on this issue.

Unfortunately,
the vindictive person in question got his way after a kangaroo court trial on Qhimm's Discord channel, and so I've now removed the 2 completely legal function calls and supplied the full source for aali.dll.  It's almost entirely useless to anyone other than myself and a much better fork (ffxn - based on the build I supplied to quantumpencil and True Odin) is in progress.  I'll be modifying that code, in time, to merge it with The Reunion.\line\line I always acknowledge people's contributions.  I work tirelessly for the modding community as a whole and want to see FF7 realize its true potential. I just wish others were like minded.  The FF7 modding community has never had a proper leader or one project to get behind.  I tried to get that going with True Odin and quantumpencil but, sadly, ego and wanting to pursue their own totally separate projects got in the way (in my view).  What we now have is

1. 7th heaven - a convoluted approach to modding that tries to be one-size-fits-all but creates chaos.  It adds a lot of bells and whistles for very little practical gain and doesn't seek to fix the massive number of bugs that still exist.  In fact, it just adds more.

2. ffxn - an updated version of Aali's DLL forked from a build by Luksy.  It too adds way too many bells and whistles and, again, largely doesn't fix the bugs that need fixing.  Because True Odin didn't work with me, it's also reinventing the wheel with things that are already implemented in The Reunion.  Despite this, it has fixed a lot of problems with Aali's original code, and it will certainly be a welcome addition to The Reunion when I modify it for that use.

3. Sister Ray by quantumpencil - One man's vanity project that will likely crash and burn long-term because he didn't listen to Jeff Goldblum in Jurrasic Park.

I'll finish by saying the FF7 community often cuts its own throat by not addressing bugs with the original engine or the 1998 port and by not looking at the problems that require a lot more urgency than silly gimmicks that 0.1% of modders and users will find worthwhile. Even with the tools already available, an extreme minority of fan-made projects ever reach the half way stage.  The Reunion is entirely focused on resolving bugs and issues in the original game, however small - and creating a framework that modders from all countries can use to bring an updated FF7 to life under one executable and solution. It's not my ego project.  And I am not being selfish by keeping ddraw.dll closed source until I retire. I am doing it precisely because all a new fork does to this community is divide it further.  It's also the case that you need to trust that your source code will be respected by others, and I don't have any confidence it will be, especially given what's already happened.

We need to stop pissing about and start working on a project that has an achievable long-term aim: to unify modding efforts  - to fix problems that have been there since 1998. We need to do that before adding expansions or time consuming - often game breaking - gimmicks.
 And that's why The Reunion exists.

Daniel L.P. Burke
« Last Edit: 2020-06-15 01:09:06 by sithlord48 »

Cupcake

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FYI i was responding to this.
Btw your links both are talking about GPL2 not GPL3.. the pdf came out in 2006 and the GPL3 was released in 2007 And FFMpeg specifically says GPL 2.1. None of it applies to GPL3.

Even worse, one of those links is talking about LGPL in addition to GPL2 instead of GPL3, so he's not using one entirely different license to justify his (incorrect) views, he's using TWO wholly different licenses to back himself up.

DLPB_

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And the desperate sabotage continues.  Not unhinged at all. Honest. Give someone enough rope....  That GPL licence is being added to for R06g.  Thoroughly deserved.
« Last Edit: 2020-06-15 01:27:36 by DLPB »

Cupcake

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And the desperate sabotage continues.

Lmao

"I screwed up and other people called me out on it; fucking sabotage, that's what it is"

urgdfriend

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That really needs to stop. It's not helping matters. And it not part of the threads reason for being here. And should be pruned from this thread for being useless banter.

DLPB_

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To everyone: These people are all on my ignore list.  I live rent free in their heads and that's enough for me. 

We'll just move on without them.  If they're bothering you with their sabotage, add them to ignore.


-Ori

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If you want to pursue this American thing then after R07 is released, go through the game/text and document everything - and I'll supply to Covarr to review.   That's reasonable but the window will not be months - as translation changes will be locked not long after.

really? sweet! eventually i knew you'd cave just to get me to shut up about it

i wont need long, and i'll do a good job

and if covarr doesnt agree you'll have to give me his discord so i can annoy him until he caves as well  :-P

DLPB_

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I was never against you submitting issues.. just drip feeding lines when some of them Americans themselves disagreed were issues.  When R07 is out, they'll be reviewed. ;)

Agravaile

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Sorry for the question that might sound stupid after all that was said above, but i'm really curious if Reunion will be transition to the ffnx driver, or given the last news will stay on aali, sadly?

Not nice of me to ask this also, but, any, at least approximate ETA for the next update? I feel that all this misunderstanding may have caused slowdowns in Reunion updates, but i've no idea how much, and this is what interests me.

Basically, in on other words what's the status with Reunion, and what to expect in the future?
« Last Edit: 2020-06-15 10:07:13 by Agravaile »

DLPB_

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No delay.  The migration is complete and I've got 2 people testing R06g.  I've got to make sure textures and so on loading as before, but given the vast bulk of FFNx is the same as Aali dll code - it wasn't too difficult.

Going forward, The Reunion will have all the benefits of FFNx and of my own code / bug fixes / packages.

DLPB_

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New Discord for The Reunion

New Discord for The Reunion.

Brand new site for The Reunion


For general support and all things FF7.
« Last Edit: 2020-07-05 19:19:48 by ö̶́̔͝ͅb̶͎͉̎̈͂e̴̱̹͂̀̑s̷̲̏̿͘ĕ̶̻̋͜b̵̯̐ë̶͚̞́̕̚ä̴̲̬r̴͖̺͌ »