Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)  (Read 2518679 times)

TheTallMass

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9675 on: 2020-06-02 22:22:47 »
1. I'm not actually sure to be honest. Arrange Mode's Jormungandr boss is definitely a spike as it's brought up a lot. The others maybe not so much, but Demon's Gate might be tricky.

2. It was suggested to add a 3rd option where the player pick the stats instead (so the pre-determined sets, the randomised sets, and then a new self-pick set). I haven't implemented it yet, but it should be fairly fast to do it.
Thank you for your kind and quick response. I look forward to seeing all the great changes from 2.0 when it arrives, but I shall enjoy 1.5 in the meantime!

EmperorSteele

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9676 on: 2020-06-03 00:55:08 »
So, I gotta ask if something is an intended feature, or an oversight (wouldn't be a bug, but...)

I'm hunting chocobos. When I face off against Valorons (sp?) near Rocket Town, the bad guys themselves scare the choco away when they case Wall +All. Combined with the low encounter rate of chcobos in that area, and the number that end up not being "great", this is a bit maddening. I know I can get Greats from Mideel, but I've always had better success with breeding/racing chocobos when they're from different regions (So a great male choco from Mideel and a great female from Rocket Town seem to produce a better racer than 2 greats from Mideel. I don't know if it's actually coded like that, but just something I noticed once).

In any case, is there a way to either a) not have chocobos spooked by status change or b) remove the +all component from the Valorons' self-buffs? Or is this intended and trying to figure out how to kill both valorons, without hitting the chocobo, before their first turn, an intended challenge?

TheTallMass

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9677 on: 2020-06-03 02:13:34 »
(Can't seem to edit posts...)

Update: I leveled up to one more set of stat boosts and the combination of increased ability scores, full limit break bars, and higher levels allowed me to continue being the classes that I wanted to be, forcing Jormungandr onto his second stage before he could Tail Slap me into oblivion!

  • Barret: Dark Knight (front row; only gravity and destruct equipped)
  • Yuffie: Bodyguard (back row (no tranq); can't use spells but can equip elemental materia for elemental affiliation on weapon or armor, had cover materia but was not used)
  • Cloud: Samurai (front row; only sense and counter materia -- used limit breaks to beat the distance gap)

Thanks again Sega Chief! Still looking forward to 2.0.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9678 on: 2020-06-03 11:30:46 »
So, I gotta ask if something is an intended feature, or an oversight (wouldn't be a bug, but...)

I'm hunting chocobos. When I face off against Valorons (sp?) near Rocket Town, the bad guys themselves scare the choco away when they case Wall +All. Combined with the low encounter rate of chcobos in that area, and the number that end up not being "great", this is a bit maddening. I know I can get Greats from Mideel, but I've always had better success with breeding/racing chocobos when they're from different regions (So a great male choco from Mideel and a great female from Rocket Town seem to produce a better racer than 2 greats from Mideel. I don't know if it's actually coded like that, but just something I noticed once).

In any case, is there a way to either a) not have chocobos spooked by status change or b) remove the +all component from the Valorons' self-buffs? Or is this intended and trying to figure out how to kill both valorons, without hitting the chocobo, before their first turn, an intended challenge?

I wasn't aware that happened, I'll set it to single target casts.

(Can't seem to edit posts...)

Update: I leveled up to one more set of stat boosts and the combination of increased ability scores, full limit break bars, and higher levels allowed me to continue being the classes that I wanted to be, forcing Jormungandr onto his second stage before he could Tail Slap me into oblivion!

  • Barret: Dark Knight (front row; only gravity and destruct equipped)
  • Yuffie: Bodyguard (back row (no tranq); can't use spells but can equip elemental materia for elemental affiliation on weapon or armor, had cover materia but was not used)
  • Cloud: Samurai (front row; only sense and counter materia -- used limit breaks to beat the distance gap)

Thanks again Sega Chief! Still looking forward to 2.0.

From what you've got equipped, I can't really see you beating that fight easily. You've rendered Cloud and Barret mostly useless, unless Barret has a gun equipped in which case he can get some attack stacks and deal a bit of damage. Yuffie can at least function with elemental. NT's arrange mode isn't really built for self-imposed challenge runs like this, as boss fights tend to have your full kit in mind when they're being specced; at the very least, swap in a character who has access to Barrier magic and/or healing magic to alleviate the strain a bit. Cloud is an absolute lost cause, so he'll need to just Defend and use items when needed. If he dies, only revive him when the boss starts to prepare Waterpolo. Yuffie can inflict Slow with Greased Lightning which should be done as early as possible.

If you have anyone with Morph, and assuming attack-items are fair game, try to Morph some Zemzeletts for Swift Bolts; this should deal good damage, as it has 1600 damage at base (before Magic Defence is applied, but should still be very high). War Gong for Berserk (to be used on Yuffie) can be acquired from Levrikons from Morph as well for a 1.5x damage boost but that means relinquishing control of that character which is probably not advisable. Could be used late on to push to the end or something.

Custom Sweepers Morph into Shrapnel; use for that could be hitting boss + Waterpolo at same time, should deal enough damage to kill the Waterpolo in one shot. Prowler can be morphed for Speed Drink, but it'll be tricky to morph it in time without using status ailments like Paralysis/Stop to keep him from fleeing the battle (Cross Slash/Seal Evil can do it, or Added Effect + Time in a weapon). If you can get Speed Drinks for Haste and Slow Jormungandr, then set ATB to Wait on the slowest speed, you'll have a tidy speed advantage.

Vampire Fangs can be morphed from Kalm Fangs, but unsure what their usefulness would be. They were buffed from the original game and may be a way of dealing damage while healing to take some strain off in a pinch. Base damage is 512 before defence is applied, so probably looking at 400-450 or so.

EmperorSteele

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9679 on: 2020-06-03 12:10:11 »
You da man, Sega Chief =)

Cybj

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9680 on: 2020-06-03 15:55:13 »
I found something odd (Spoiler):

Spoiler: show
Even though Aerith is dead, she's right there when parachuting into Midgar:


I'm guessing it's a flag that's set incorrectly?

Jlowe22

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9681 on: 2020-06-03 17:00:32 »


When in doubt, can reinstall the mod from the latest files; assuming it's not being upgraded from 1.4, save files should be fine. If it's an IRO, then should be a release date field on it (if downloading from the catalog).

If it is an upgrade the save files will be fine?  Or is it necessary to start a new game.  Being 15 hours in, I’m reluctant to start a new game.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9682 on: 2020-06-03 19:13:53 »
I found something odd (Spoiler):

Spoiler: show
Even though Aerith is dead, she's right there when parachuting into Midgar:


I'm guessing it's a flag that's set incorrectly?

Is that from the latest IRO from this thread (or my catalog) or is it from the Qhimm Catalog? I thought I'd fixed that earlier.

If it is an upgrade the save files will be fine?  Or is it necessary to start a new game.  Being 15 hours in, I’m reluctant to start a new game.

Yeah should be fine.

adiostorito

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9683 on: 2020-06-04 05:16:17 »
Hi Sega! Was continuing to use Vanilla New Threat through the Qhimm catalogue. Got to the part of Corel Mega Materia quest, and I believe it was the last two sections of the train that took me to Proud Clod's battle screen. I can't remember if the encounters were different. Anyways, looking forward to 2.0! Thanks for all your work!

TheTallMass

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9684 on: 2020-06-04 16:43:31 »
From what you've got equipped, I can't really see you beating that fight easily. You've rendered Cloud and Barret mostly useless, unless Barret has a gun equipped in which case he can get some attack stacks and deal a bit of damage. Yuffie can at least function with elemental. NT's arrange mode isn't really built for self-imposed challenge runs like this, as boss fights tend to have your full kit in mind when they're being specced; at the very least, swap in a character who has access to Barrier magic and/or healing magic to alleviate the strain a bit. Cloud is an absolute lost cause, so he'll need to just Defend and use items when needed. If he dies, only revive him when the boss starts to prepare Waterpolo. Yuffie can inflict Slow with Greased Lightning which should be done as early as possible.

If you have anyone with Morph, and assuming attack-items are fair game, try to Morph some Zemzeletts for Swift Bolts; this should deal good damage, as it has 1600 damage at base (before Magic Defence is applied, but should still be very high). War Gong for Berserk (to be used on Yuffie) can be acquired from Levrikons from Morph as well for a 1.5x damage boost but that means relinquishing control of that character which is probably not advisable. Could be used late on to push to the end or something.

Custom Sweepers Morph into Shrapnel; use for that could be hitting boss + Waterpolo at same time, should deal enough damage to kill the Waterpolo in one shot. Prowler can be morphed for Speed Drink, but it'll be tricky to morph it in time without using status ailments like Paralysis/Stop to keep him from fleeing the battle (Cross Slash/Seal Evil can do it, or Added Effect + Time in a weapon). If you can get Speed Drinks for Haste and Slow Jormungandr, then set ATB to Wait on the slowest speed, you'll have a tidy speed advantage.

Vampire Fangs can be morphed from Kalm Fangs, but unsure what their usefulness would be. They were buffed from the original game and may be a way of dealing damage while healing to take some strain off in a pinch. Base damage is 512 before defence is applied, so probably looking at 400-450 or so.
Thanks for the concern. Items are also heavily restricted (per the class instructions), but I did beat the fight without any major issues once he got put into the 2nd stage. Three full Level 1 limit bars plus rank 2 stats (Cloud as the SAM is beastly) dealt more than a good third of his HP out of the gate, and Yuffie's LB slowed him, allowing more attacks from my team.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9685 on: 2020-06-04 17:27:36 »
Hi Sega! Was continuing to use Vanilla New Threat through the Qhimm catalogue. Got to the part of Corel Mega Materia quest, and I believe it was the last two sections of the train that took me to Proud Clod's battle screen. I can't remember if the encounters were different. Anyways, looking forward to 2.0! Thanks for all your work!

I'll sort that out.

Thanks for the concern. Items are also heavily restricted (per the class instructions), but I did beat the fight without any major issues once he got put into the 2nd stage. Three full Level 1 limit bars plus rank 2 stats (Cloud as the SAM is beastly) dealt more than a good third of his HP out of the gate, and Yuffie's LB slowed him, allowing more attacks from my team.

Well, glad to hear you're through.

Ethario

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9686 on: 2020-06-05 01:54:18 »
2.0 when, FF7 remake didn't do it for me. Keep up the great work sega hope you can continue on FF8 aswell, much love

TheTallMass

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9687 on: 2020-06-05 02:13:58 »
Something I have run into is the invisible buttons:



I remember reading an earlier post stating that they were going to potentially be fixed. It was a gamble, but I managed to get 10 points on the military send-off for Rufus! I wonder if I'm missing a pre-req for the mod...

[Edit]As a test, I installed the Enhanced Stock UI mod from the catalog and I do have buttons now. The User Interface mod may have caused it... not sure. I don't know if it's normal for the NT mod or if it's something from outside. For now, my problem is resolved.[/Edit]
« Last Edit: 2020-06-05 04:37:29 by TheTallMass »

KaosuReido

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9688 on: 2020-06-05 09:16:20 »
Something I have run into is the invisible buttons:



I remember reading an earlier post stating that they were going to potentially be fixed. It was a gamble, but I managed to get 10 points on the military send-off for Rufus! I wonder if I'm missing a pre-req for the mod...

[Edit]As a test, I installed the Enhanced Stock UI mod from the catalog and I do have buttons now. The User Interface mod may have caused it... not sure. I don't know if it's normal for the NT mod or if it's something from outside. For now, my problem is resolved.[/Edit]

Basically, the "all in one" mods in the 7th Heaven catalog still have to be updated manually on the back end, and they don't tend to get updated super fast. So for rapidly changing or developing mods, like New Threat and ESUI, it's better to just use their own specific IROs, instead of the all-in-one IROs.

Cybj

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9689 on: 2020-06-05 14:57:33 »
Okay, this may be a dumb question, but what does killing Curator do?

Spoiler: show
Through pure dumb luck, I got Barret to 7777 Max HP during the Sister Ray section, so I decided to kick the ass of the guy who horribly murdered me when I was in Shinra Bldg. for the first time (I know, I ignored the warning, obviously).

Anyway, so I killed the guy, and the reward was.... Nothing!

And then I thought maybe it's a key item. But it's just nothing? So is it just for bragging rights?

EmperorSteele

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9690 on: 2020-06-05 16:34:51 »
It's basically a bragging rights/troll boss! I know that seems harsh, but it'd be even harsher to hide something useful behind him when he's that hard to put down!

Cybj

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9691 on: 2020-06-05 18:13:20 »
There seems to be a bug in materia growth. I killed a boss that yields 100,000 AP. I equipped some triple growth items to master a bunch of materia, but it doesn't seem to be working correctly. I did several experiments, all with the same outcome.

Cloud was equipped with a Precious Watch (shown as triple growth). In it is an Osmose (170,000 AP to master). After the fight it has gained 103,392 AP (???), with 66,608 to go.
Spoiler: show


Tifa was equipped with a normal growth armor with an HP Absorb (100.000 AP to master). After the fight it has gained 34,464 AP, with 65,536 (2^16, but that may be a conincidence lol) to go. Well, at least the 34,464 is consistent with 103,392 / 3.
Spoiler: show


So my next thought was that maybe AP is shared over the three characters, so I did the same with 1 character dead. AP gained is exactly the same. So I did another test. I went to the crater and fought a dragon. He yielded 5,700 AP. I checked the Osmose materia on Cloud, which was now at 120,492 AP (so 103,392 + 3*5,700). So triple growth seems to work as expected, and AP is not shared.
Spoiler: show


Anyway, now I'm stumped. Any insights?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9692 on: 2020-06-05 18:47:36 »
2.0 when, FF7 remake didn't do it for me. Keep up the great work sega hope you can continue on FF8 aswell, much love

Still needs a bit of time.

There seems to be a bug in materia growth. I killed a boss that yields 100,000 AP. I equipped some triple growth items to master a bunch of materia, but it doesn't seem to be working correctly. I did several experiments, all with the same outcome.

Cloud was equipped with a Precious Watch (shown as triple growth). In it is an Osmose (170,000 AP to master). After the fight it has gained 103,392 AP (???), with 66,608 to go.
Spoiler: show


Tifa was equipped with a normal growth armor with an HP Absorb (100.000 AP to master). After the fight it has gained 34,464 AP, with 65,536 (2^16, but that may be a conincidence lol) to go. Well, at least the 34,464 is consistent with 103,392 / 3.
Spoiler: show


So my next thought was that maybe AP is shared over the three characters, so I did the same with 1 character dead. AP gained is exactly the same. So I did another test. I went to the crater and fought a dragon. He yielded 5,700 AP. I checked the Osmose materia on Cloud, which was now at 120,492 AP (so 103,392 + 3*5,700). So triple growth seems to work as expected, and AP is not shared.
Spoiler: show


Anyway, now I'm stumped. Any insights?

I think there's an upper limit on what AP received can actually be; it's a 2-byte value initially so the max I can set on my end is 65535 per enemy. But the max range for the value when modifiers are applied, and when all enemy AP is counted together, I'm unsure. So what might be happening is, the value is hitting the max that can be stored for calculation and then overflowing back to 00 and counting back up from there.

I'll need to go through and set AP for the end-game bosses so that this can't occur.

Cybj

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9693 on: 2020-06-06 08:19:23 »

I think there's an upper limit on what AP received can actually be; it's a 2-byte value initially so the max I can set on my end is 65535 per enemy. But the max range for the value when modifiers are applied, and when all enemy AP is counted together, I'm unsure. So what might be happening is, the value is hitting the max that can be stored for calculation and then overflowing back to 00 and counting back up from there.

I'll need to go through and set AP for the end-game bosses so that this can't occur.

Yeah that actually makes sense. Tifa got (100,000 MOD 2^16) = 100,000 AND (2^16)-1 = 34,464. Cloud got that before modifiers, which then got tripled. This was the Round Island boss, so technically it's two bosses. Does that mean they are both worth 50k to stay under the 2^16 limit? In that case, is it possible to resolve the AP of each enemy separately instead of accumulating it first and then evaluating? And since it's possible for the accumulated value to exceed 2^16 (as shown by Clouds final AP gained), is it not possible to count large values as a multiplier?

Either way, thanks for the insight. I'll continue playing now :)

hasterdis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9694 on: 2020-06-07 03:51:12 »
Hello Sega Chief, thank you for this awesome project, it is the best in gameplay. Can I ask you if you can tell me, please, if there is a form to delete de Enhanced Save File? I like to play with the normal save mechanic, can it be possible?

EmperorSteele

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9695 on: 2020-06-07 04:23:46 »
You won't want that. I don't know how far in you are, but after the Mythril mines, the question marks become the only way to increase your character's stats. Sure, you'll have more HP as you level up, but that will be IT, and your Strength, Vitality, etc will all stay at their default values, which will make anything after the midpoint of disk 1 VERY difficult.

hasterdis

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9696 on: 2020-06-07 04:28:41 »
Oh I didn't know that, then I will keep as it is, thank you Emperor for the tip.

Ozscar

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9697 on: 2020-06-07 13:17:51 »
So I have just done the side quest at Da-Chao statue, but when the battle is over I don't have the materia... it's not in my inventory anywhere. Not the most important materia by any means, but just a heads up.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9698 on: 2020-06-07 14:13:31 »
Hello Sega Chief, thank you for this awesome project, it is the best in gameplay. Can I ask you if you can tell me, please, if there is a form to delete de Enhanced Save File? I like to play with the normal save mechanic, can it be possible?

Not sure what you mean. The process to save is the same between vanilla and NT, taking the same amount of time. When you bump into a save point just open the menu and save the game.

So I have just done the side quest at Da-Chao statue, but when the battle is over I don't have the materia... it's not in my inventory anywhere. Not the most important materia by any means, but just a heads up.

The script seems to be in order, it has a check if materia inventory is full and the dropped Materia is the listed one. You're sure that Steal As Well isn't in there somewhere?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)
« Reply #9699 on: 2020-06-07 16:57:19 »
I've updated everything; I added a new IRO that is a stand-alone for costume/model swaps. If it works, then I'm going to remove it from the NT IROs, makes more sense that way for it to be its own IRO.

Changes - 7th June
-) Adjusted Mu's LV Suicide Chance
-) Valron only self-targets with Wall when a Chocobo is present.
-) Double-checked Aeris flag for Midgar

Vanilla
-) Corrected battle IDs for Corel Train
-) Double-checked Aeris flag for Midgar