Author Topic: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.5)  (Read 1730920 times)

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3750 on: 2016-06-10 03:12:05 »
Another question - while talking to the three lying guys at Corel Prison, some red message popped up, something about waiting for music or something like that, i don't remember (my memory sucks, lol) I assume it's some kind of hint, but I'm clueless about what it means. Is this some end game sidequest or should I try to figure out what it means right now?

It's related to something but best not to worry about it.

I have already a problem Sega. ^^' I can't open your kernel2.bin with teioh, how do you open it ?

I've never used Teioh; the kernel I've got has been through so many changes and problems that I wouldn't be surprised if it had some corruption in it (KOTR text doesn't display for instance which hints at underlying problems). I use Wall Market for all my revisions.

Well, the Gi boss was as annoying this time as it was last time. Luckily, I now know the power of Morph. Get Bird Wings from Morphing those...Griffons I think it was right outside Cosmo Canyon and you can take out those Heavy Lights in one turn and also do some real big damage to Kattan. I only had one though so I backtracked all the way out of tGi Cave and CC to get one more. I also only survived with one character but a win is a win and I really hate that fight. Nothing on you SC, some fights are just like that.

I just beat the new Lost Number. I honestly didn't really figure out the fight, I'm afraid. Only Barret seemed to do any real damage after he got into his second phase. Cloud only ever did 1s, Cait Sith could do okay damage with Dice, but it was really all on Barret to needle him to death with Deathblows and Limits while Cloud and Cait Sith were pretty much only on healing duty.

Lost Number is just the same as before; he morphs into a physical or magic form depending on what type of damage you hit him with when hew went under Half HP. I've actually just got done with some enhancements to this boss; he's been bugging me since forever.

iDerek759

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3751 on: 2016-06-10 05:19:54 »
Hey SC, just wanted to let you know I spotted another minor text bug.

Spoiler: show


That's it, lol.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3752 on: 2016-06-10 14:21:19 »
Fixed, just a text box size thing; thanks for letting me know.

deha0002

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3753 on: 2016-06-10 16:10:29 »
One thing that crossed my mind regarding the EXE patch.
If possible, i think it would be better to adjust how you gain each limit break. Personally i think you should lower the amount of monster kills (pretty low 10-20 kills) and increase the limit break usage needed for receiving new limit breaks. This will allow low level runs to actually have limit breaks past Cross Slash.

mexico

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3754 on: 2016-06-10 16:53:14 »
I've never used Teioh; the kernel I've got has been through so many changes and problems that I wouldn't be surprised if it had some corruption in it (KOTR text doesn't display for instance which hints at underlying problems). I use Wall Market for all my revisions.

Well, I've never found the way to change texts in Wall market, can you tell me please ?

Also, you have a custom exe for your mod right ? I'm not sure how I can translate this thing...

magictrufflez

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3755 on: 2016-06-11 14:50:14 »
One thing that crossed my mind regarding the EXE patch.
If possible, i think it would be better to adjust how you gain each limit break. Personally i think you should lower the amount of monster kills (pretty low 10-20 kills) and increase the limit break usage needed for receiving new limit breaks. This will allow low level runs to actually have limit breaks past Cross Slash.

This, I think, is a really bad idea to have built into the mod for everyone.  As someone who does a bit of grinding when he plays, lowering the kill count for gaining limit breaks will mean access for super-powered lvl 3's way early.  Like, it wouldn't be difficult to have access to Meteorain, Meteodrive, or Angermax before I left Midgar with those kill counts.

I personally feel the same way the FF6 BNW guys (and I'm sure a number of others) do about this--balancing a mod around LLG's basically makes your mod a LLG mod and kind of ruins it for everyone else.

A potential solution to this problem is making an item causing 0 XP gains accessible from the beginning, and then LLG players could grind kills for limits and level where they felt they needed to.  This is what BNW did (they actually eventually instituted a "No XP" switch in the options menu), and it's worked fairly well from what I understand.

deha0002

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3756 on: 2016-06-11 15:39:34 »
This, I think, is a really bad idea to have built into the mod for everyone.  As someone who does a bit of grinding when he plays, lowering the kill count for gaining limit breaks will mean access for super-powered lvl 3's way early.  Like, it wouldn't be difficult to have access to Meteorain, Meteodrive, or Angermax before I left Midgar with those kill counts.

I personally feel the same way the FF6 BNW guys (and I'm sure a number of others) do about this--balancing a mod around LLG's basically makes your mod a LLG mod and kind of ruins it for everyone else.

A potential solution to this problem is making an item causing 0 XP gains accessible from the beginning, and then LLG players could grind kills for limits and level where they felt they needed to.  This is what BNW did (they actually eventually instituted a "No XP" switch in the options menu), and it's worked fairly well from what I understand.

Yeah, thats why i talked about the exe patch, not the NT mod itself =). And by applying it to the EXE patch, Sega can actually balance the limit breaks for utility across the different levels and not just have straight dmg boosts. So gaining early Lvl -3 limit breaks might not be that OP.
Another thing is, after playing FF7 NT like 7 times until the end, i am not a fan of 0 XP items just so i can keep my lvl low, we kinda have the no encounter setting already. And am not a fan of grinding +100 mobs at midgar then another +100 at choco ranch and ano... (you get the point) if more limit breaks offer variety to combat.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-11 15:51:08 by deha0002 »

xenofears

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3757 on: 2016-06-11 16:01:02 »
Yes you have to keep it balanced. It is not a LLG mod (AFAIK). The balance and difficulty should be based around playing it normally... IMHO.

So far I am enjoying the mod.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3758 on: 2016-06-11 16:18:25 »
One thing that crossed my mind regarding the EXE patch.
If possible, i think it would be better to adjust how you gain each limit break. Personally i think you should lower the amount of monster kills (pretty low 10-20 kills) and increase the limit break usage needed for receiving new limit breaks. This will allow low level runs to actually have limit breaks past Cross Slash.

I can change Limit Break kill/usage requirements and the HP% damage needed to fill them at each level through the Kernel; the actual damage/effects of the Limits themselves are stored in the .EXE so I can make these changes if needed. As far as kills go for a low level run, I could help out by adding an enemy here or there that gives 0EXP; Mango Fangs on the Temple Area (wasteland areas on the tip of the isle) already give 0 EXP for instance (I think). I'd be reluctant to just lower the kills needed specifically for low level games, as there was another player on ID saying he had Limit Level 3 for Tifa by the time he reached Junon or thereabouts (though that might have been a grind heavy run).

Well, I've never found the way to change texts in Wall market, can you tell me please ?

Also, you have a custom exe for your mod right ? I'm not sure how I can translate this thing...

If you double-click the name of any item, spell, etc. in Wall Market then a text box should appear allowing you to change the Name and Description. Note that the 'save' function in this tool is called 'Create Kernel & Kernel2.bin'; the wording is a little different to what you'd normally expect.

This, I think, is a really bad idea to have built into the mod for everyone.  As someone who does a bit of grinding when he plays, lowering the kill count for gaining limit breaks will mean access for super-powered lvl 3's way early.  Like, it wouldn't be difficult to have access to Meteorain, Meteodrive, or Angermax before I left Midgar with those kill counts.

I personally feel the same way the FF6 BNW guys (and I'm sure a number of others) do about this--balancing a mod around LLG's basically makes your mod a LLG mod and kind of ruins it for everyone else.

A potential solution to this problem is making an item causing 0 XP gains accessible from the beginning, and then LLG players could grind kills for limits and level where they felt they needed to.  This is what BNW did (they actually eventually instituted a "No XP" switch in the options menu), and it's worked fairly well from what I understand.

Yeah, thats why i talked about the exe patch, not the NT mod itself =). And by applying it to the EXE patch, Sega can actually balance the limit breaks for utility across the different levels and not just have straight dmg boosts. So gaining early Lvl -3 limit breaks might not be that OP.
Another thing is, after playing FF7 NT like 7 times until the end, i am not a fan of 0 XP items just so i can keep my lvl low, we kinda have the no encounter setting already. And am not a fan of grinding +100 mobs at midgar then another +100 at choco ranch and ano... (you get the point) if more limit breaks offer variety to combat.

The plan with the .EXE patch as far as Limits go is to lower base power but add effects like the previous one. The problem with the previous model though is that it lowered base power too much and left Limits underpowered. Off the top of my head, this is what I'd be looking to do for Cloud:

Braver: Normal Damage
Cross Slash: Slightly less base power, but inflicts Paralysis (100%)

Blade Beam: Multi-target damage, long range
Climhazzard: Lower base power, but Piercing Damage (ignores defence)

Meteorain: No crits, long range
Finishing Touch: No change, but base power might be adjusted for Non-KO hit if it's too weak

Omnislash: Not sure, need to test damage threshold and compare it to other Lv.4s

I'd also be making Sled Fang Long Range this time, to avoid a potential problem in the Hundred Gunner fight. But I'd be willing to drop range and just keep all Limits long range if it doesn't feel right (I don't think it felt right the last time I tried it). If the .EXE is made into a part of the mod and not just an optional extra then I'd be able to adjust the Limit reqs/charge accordingly but I'm still on the fence about that.

Yes you have to keep it balanced. It is not a LLG mod (AFAIK). The balance and difficulty should be based around playing it normally... IMHO.

So far I am enjoying the mod.

And ultimately that's what I need to be focused on; I can sneak a bone in here or there for LLG players, but it can't be anything that would undermine a first-time normal playthrough.

deha0002

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3759 on: 2016-06-11 16:31:40 »
I can change Limit Break kill/usage requirements and the HP% damage needed to fill them at each level through the Kernel; the actual damage/effects of the Limits themselves are stored in the .EXE so I can make these changes if needed. As far as kills go for a low level run, I could help out by adding an enemy here or there that gives 0EXP; Mango Fangs on the Temple Area (wasteland areas on the tip of the isle) already give 0 EXP for instance (I think). I'd be reluctant to just lower the kills needed specifically for low level games, as there was another player on ID saying he had Limit Level 3 for Tifa by the time he reached Junon or thereabouts (though that might have been a grind heavy run).


Adding mobs that die in one hit and deals no dmg (or i dont know, nothing to time consuming atleast) might be a good idea. Maybe even just add it to Arrange since (from my understanding) Arrange will most likely be the second+ run, where normal could cater towards fresh NT runs.

Bowser9

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3760 on: 2016-06-11 19:35:00 »
If it's that important to support Limit Break variety in NT speedruns, you could try adding a Limit Tutor NPC at key points. Talking to that NPC will check the player's time against Sega Chief's staff record and will unlock the corresponding level of limit (unless it's already unlocked via trainer). =\

I mean, just thinking about Excalibur 2 in FF9 and all. It doesn't have to be restricted to limits, or be as well hidden; depends on what you think would be fun. Something to consider if it's an option and you think it has potential, Sega Chief.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-11 19:37:26 by Bowser9 »

mexico

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3761 on: 2016-06-11 22:30:51 »
Thanks Sega, I can begin now. ;)

Edit: well, as I expected, that doesn't work because of the french text which is much longer than the english text. :( Do you think that it could work if I use french kernel and then apply your modifications ?
« Last Edit: 2016-06-11 23:46:08 by mexico »

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3762 on: 2016-06-12 06:06:59 »
If it's that important to support Limit Break variety in NT speedruns, you could try adding a Limit Tutor NPC at key points. Talking to that NPC will check the player's time against Sega Chief's staff record and will unlock the corresponding level of limit (unless it's already unlocked via trainer). =\

I mean, just thinking about Excalibur 2 in FF9 and all. It doesn't have to be restricted to limits, or be as well hidden; depends on what you think would be fun. Something to consider if it's an option and you think it has potential, Sega Chief.

I dunno if it can work that way. With the exception of a special script for Cloud's Omnislash in prep for the final battle, Limits need to be learned in-battle as far as I know.

Thanks Sega, I can begin now. ;)

Edit: well, as I expected, that doesn't work because of the french text which is much longer than the english text. :( Do you think that it could work if I use french kernel and then apply your modifications ?

Sure, that could work too. It doesn't need to be 100% translated either; if you have to leave stuff out or reword it to make it fit then no worries.

nainje

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3763 on: 2016-06-12 09:32:18 »
Hi Sega Chief ! I wanted to say hello and huge thanks for this amazing expérience you offered with your work here. 8-)

For those who want to know, I'm using 7th heaven and after I set my mods order, I did a clean install of the NT mod 1.4 + the latests updates and for now it works really fine.
I did this cause the last update 7th heaven gives me is only the 3.5, I wanted the best from the best :-D

So... I wanted to know one more thing... is the lv70 cap been removed ? I saw it on the forum and I must admit it was the only real bad point... Personnaly I patched the .exe to break the 9999 damages and HP limits :mrgreen:

mexico

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3764 on: 2016-06-12 13:00:22 »
Sure, that could work too. It doesn't need to be 100% translated either; if you have to leave stuff out or reword it to make it fit then no worries.

OK, and if I suppress the help texts (I think nobody needs these ^^), will I gain space in the kernel ?

xenofears

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3765 on: 2016-06-12 13:20:38 »
Could you put the text from the beginners hall (especially the status effects, as it seems like you changed some,) into a text file somewhere? I made a save to keep but overwrote it by accident.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3766 on: 2016-06-12 14:43:11 »
Hi Sega Chief ! I wanted to say hello and huge thanks for this amazing expérience you offered with your work here. 8-)

For those who want to know, I'm using 7th heaven and after I set my mods order, I did a clean install of the NT mod 1.4 + the latests updates and for now it works really fine.
I did this cause the last update 7th heaven gives me is only the 3.5, I wanted the best from the best :-D

So... I wanted to know one more thing... is the lv70 cap been removed ? I saw it on the forum and I must admit it was the only real bad point... Personnaly I patched the .exe to break the 9999 damages and HP limits :mrgreen:

It's been removed, yeah. Let me know how it goes with the break damage limit/9999 break; which attacks you can get past 9999, for instance. It'll let me give people a better answer when they ask me if the mod can cope with 9999+ stuff or not.

OK, and if I suppress the help texts (I think nobody needs these ^^), will I gain space in the kernel ?

Yep, a lot of the space is from those help texts. The equipment in particular; most of them don't have text in the original at all. One thing to note is that if you remove the text entirely, an odd thing can happen where in-game some garbage text will appear for the item description instead. Best thing to do is try to have something in there, even if it's just a . or a number representing the stat gain.

Could you put the text from the beginners hall (especially the status effects, as it seems like you changed some,) into a text file somewhere? I made a save to keep but overwrote it by accident.

I'll put something together.

http://pastebin.com/QyCyKzqt

Looking at it though, I'd better get that text revised soon.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-12 14:52:45 by Sega Chief »

nainje

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3767 on: 2016-06-12 15:24:03 »
I can already answer this question : Yes it works, today I threw a X-potion on the friendly Scorp boss that help us against the brass dragon and I healed him with more than 25000 hp per potion  ;D

If you managed to add a new game + campaign it would be great to break the lv 99 cap, but it sounds pretty hard job 8)

Dahaka

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3768 on: 2016-06-12 16:18:32 »
What do you get for choosing Barret for the date? The box disappeared before I had the chance to read it and I don't see anything new in the menu.

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3769 on: 2016-06-12 20:17:30 »
I can already answer this question : Yes it works, today I threw a X-potion on the friendly Scorp boss that help us against the brass dragon and I healed him with more than 25000 hp per potion  ;D

If you managed to add a new game + campaign it would be great to break the lv 99 cap, but it sounds pretty hard job 8)

I had a plan to do a New Game+ but I figure it'd just be easier to make it a stand-alone mod that can be played either with a pre-existing NT party or with a pre-made generic party (so that it can be played even without a save file).

What do you get for choosing Barret for the date? The box disappeared before I had the chance to read it and I don't see anything new in the menu.

Should be a Microlaser; I went over that script recently, I think they weren't dropping correctly.


xenofears

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3770 on: 2016-06-12 22:36:39 »
Thanks that is very helpful to keep as a reference. Are there major changes I should know about?

Sega Chief

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3771 on: 2016-06-13 00:50:14 »
Not really, just that the character stats thing might not be 100% anymore.

exsilverx

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3772 on: 2016-06-13 12:07:47 »
Hey Sega, thanks for this awesome mod. I have a question though, I fiddled a bit with my Kernel (and kernel2) via Wallmarket prior to the patch, and it seems like the text to a lot of the content, like materia and equipment, are not updated (Lv 1. Skill for Heal is "Death" instead of "Osmore", although it does drain MP instead of inflicting death)

Since this is my first playthrough, I feel like I'm missing a lot of important information. Do you have the raw data files that I can just copy into my data folder? Thank you so much.

xenofears

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3773 on: 2016-06-13 12:12:40 »
I am in the Mythril Mines and I think laser is bugged. I was able to kill one of those solo flying enemies with demi followed by laser. It deals over 1000 damage against them... something like 3/4 max hp.

The attack worked against the turks too. 1/3 max hp damage. Seems very powerful...

Robo Jesus

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Re: [FF7PC-98/Steam] New Threat Mod (v1.4)
« Reply #3774 on: 2016-06-13 12:47:33 »
I am in the Mythril Mines and I think laser is bugged. I was able to kill one of those solo flying enemies with demi followed by laser. It deals over 1000 damage against them... something like 3/4 max hp.

The attack worked against the turks too. 1/3 max hp damage. Seems very powerful...
Nope, Laser is working perfectly. Laser was changed to be able to kill what it hit. Creatures weak against Gravity can also be killed by the "Demi" spells. ^_^


Anyways, I seem to have encountered a bug on disk three. The Weapon Master guy who crafts said weapons seems to state that he's unable to make Cait Sith's "Ultimate" weapon due to lacking the required items, even though the three listed items are things I have. I think that the "List" in the coding is different from what's being stated in the text or whathaveyou. I haven't encountered this issue with any of the other "Ultimate" weapons though (still haven't gotten the items needed for Yuffie, Red, Cid, and Barret's weapons yet, though if I find any issue I will speak up), only seem to be having this issue with Cait Sith's HP Shout.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-13 12:52:33 by Robo Jesus »