Author Topic: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?  (Read 24758 times)

Shard

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #75 on: 2014-03-18 15:34:12 »
Everyone hated Tidus because he was a whiny crybaby and also a giant moron. Yuna throws herself at him all game and he just shrugs it off. He tells every living soul in Spira he's from Zanarkand, even as much as three minutes after Rikku and Wakka keep telling him not to.

Honestly, it's the only playable character in FFX that I despised (Wakka was pretty annoying but at least he knew up from down). I would put FFX on the same level I put FF7 if the main character were anyone else.

gjoerulv

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #76 on: 2014-03-20 07:03:24 »
Fun to see how yet another topic has strayed of.
But imo, Square's design of some the characters is a part of the problem.
Yes, all traits of Tidus is by design, of course. And it's that obvious appeal to the mainsteam that bothers me the most. Same thing with pretty much all main characters in FF8. In other words, it's not really how they are design that really gets to me, it's why they are designed that way. And if the "how" also bothers me then... yeah.

With FF13 the borders between j-pop and FF are crumbling even more.

Covarr

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AndehPandeh

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #78 on: 2014-04-15 11:40:51 »
I havent actually played FF13 due to a combination of never having bought a PS3 and having half gave up on the series apart from some spin-offs and 'side games that are sorta related' eg: Kingdom Hearts.

Honestly though I dont see why the new battle system in this game would generate so much hate; its been clear for a while Square have been targeting a more mainstream audience as opposed to the diehard JRPG fans, and a real time battle system will fill that need, but also imo gives way for a chance at much more strategic combat than turn-based would. In other words I feel that, if they play there cards right, they could actually please everyone for a change. (especially if earlier posts were right in them bringing back the staples of the series mostly lost from 10 upwards such as the world map; all things I think made the FF series what there were more so than having a turn-based battle system)

However, I *do* think they could have really perfected turn-based systems. In my opinion the slickness of X-2s battle system, even though it felt unfinished (it still annoys me how you can end up moving around the battle map when doing attacks and yet they done nothing with that feature) really shown a lot of promise for future games in the series.

In response to character design being part of the problem. I agree, actually I think that the general designs of the games has became completely blurred to the point its hard to tell one entry in the series from another; to me they all look too similar to the world aesthetic they created in X with minor differences (exception being 12 which was set in a universe they created aeons back anyways). Its honestly very off putting as I cant look at newer entries in the series as the same as VI-X where it felt like a whole new world had been designed specifically for that one game (5 downwards shared similar world designs, however I feel this is more to do with limitations on the older systems plus a fear to stray from what they'd always done, sides it was just basically medieval fantasy world but more colorful so I feel I cant complain about something 90% of other RPGs do anyways)

Finally, on Tidus, I think people are hating him for all the wrong reasons (yeah he was a bit whiny, but nowhere near as bad as most people are saying and at least for justified reasons; I bet most people would react much worse in the same situation) He does nonetheless irk me at times with the constant slip-ups bout Zanarkand, and going on bout how it was his story etc.

but on the otherhand, he felt like a real person. He was by no means the most likable FF protagonist; but I quite honestly see a LOT of love for other characters from this series that are so 2D in terms of personality, I really just cant understand why people would hate on someone who goes through pretty well written character development, irregardless of how annoying they can be at times.

(sorry for the long ass post x3)

Covarr

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #79 on: 2014-04-15 17:08:50 »
Honestly though I dont see why the new battle system in this game would generate so much hate; its been clear for a while Square have been targeting a more mainstream audience as opposed to the diehard JRPG fans, and a real time battle system will fill that need, but also imo gives way for a chance at much more strategic combat than turn-based would.
The issue with FF13 isn't so much that they changed the battle system, or even that it's semi-real-time, but that it's really poorly implemented. The balance of the thing is all wrong. It wouldn't work particularly well in any other franchise either.

AndehPandeh

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #80 on: 2014-04-16 07:58:40 »
The issue with FF13 isn't so much that they changed the battle system, or even that it's semi-real-time, but that it's really poorly implemented. The balance of the thing is all wrong. It wouldn't work particularly well in any other franchise either.

Oh sorry x3 I meant the real time one they are apparently putting in 15? as I said I've not actually played 13 but I've heard mixed things about its battle system, with some saying its the best thing about the game and others saying its awful.

Of course that doesnt mean I have hope for 15 having a decent battle system either, from my experience, Square often implement new battle systems in their games that have amazing features yet nothings done to take advantage of them. X-2 is still my favourite example of this with the moving around the map as battle continues yet from what I remember it was entirely aesthetic.

Luceid

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #81 on: 2014-04-16 10:42:35 »
For me the most annoying part of XIII wasn't it's linearity, but its lack of difference in kind.
(See this as explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlBR1z-ue-I&hd=1 )

All you do in this game is fighting for the absolutely most part of the game.
While this is okay 'cuz it's a J-RPG after all, it was too much.
Running your typical tube-level >> fights >> menus >> cutscene >> repeat
(But I have to say, that I still prefer semi tube-levels instead of gigantic mazes where you waste your time running from one dead end (no treasure) to another - time is valuable to us all)
Sidequests and exploration were at short hand on this game, although XIII-2 did a slightly better job.
I know that they wanted the story to be set one piece and not to be broken by "oh, let's check this cave out for a while". But it was too much. Until chapter 11 the game was truly "meh".

Also: Today people actually don't want to grind to the death. But that's truly what FF is about atm.
Grind, grind, grind...
Oh, and Confusing mechanics like upgrading in XIII (would have never used this optimal without GFAQ, etc.) or "Chaining" in XII (fire the guy, who invented this one SE!) or the time-mechanic in LR (WTF?!).

So... even if XV will be a mechanic-wise mix of XII, XIII and Kingdom Hearts it won't help much if there is no difference in kind at all. The game truly needs stuff like TT or BB as minigame, sidequests, maybe even moral-choices (and at best an ending-slideshow to show the results of your choices.)

meesbaker

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #82 on: 2014-04-16 12:20:41 »
The true problem is the design of a confusing pointless story revolving around stupid characters.
In ff7 all characters had a lot of depth in them, in the course of the game we find out everyone's backstory and get a grip why they act the way they do and also find out that there's more behind everyone than the obvious and every character develops in the story in a way. E.g. Barret finds out it was wrong to place bombs and that he isnt a leader-guy and actually fights for Marlene than the fate of the planet itself.

FFX and all other great ffs were nearly as good in that regard plus an interesting story always made for a good game.

Those were SquareSOFT games. Enix is ....huh...different. The difference between x(soft) and x-2(enix) perfectly proves what Im talking about and should need no further commenting.

XIII is the same ridiculous like Enix said:“ Say good-bye to normally acting characters, beautifully narrated story full of epicness, emotion n stuf....“

Every character in XIII is NOT normal. Everyone is totally ridiculously overacting, each character has just a single characteristic(the cool, the overconfident, the shy, the idiot, the funny, the annoying one...) and its absolutely not convincing. Does Ebix not know how people behave?

Every conversation consisted of screaming, running around, hitting each others faces...

Like watching the worst reality sope of all time. XIII isnt better than the terribly scripted afternoon law court tv shows running on rtl in my country.
« Last Edit: 2014-04-16 12:24:19 by meesbaker »

LeonhartGR

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #83 on: 2014-04-16 13:14:51 »
Does Enix not know how people behave?

If they keep observing the buildings and the rail stations instead of the people they never will. :D
« Last Edit: 2014-04-16 13:20:01 by LeonhartGR »

Kaldarasha

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #84 on: 2014-04-16 13:18:14 »
I would say Enix is more likely conservative part. I mean their Dragon Quest game design was ever very simple and consequent.
No this is defiantly the handwrite of Squaresoft. Look at the design change from Secret of Mana to Secret of Mana2 (or even Legend of Mana) or Crono Trigger and Chrono Cross.
Another problem was that Square wasn't intelligent enough to bind their true talents to the company. There is a reason why FF9 is the last true Final Fantasy and why the best JRPG since Dragon Quest 8 is now on a Nintendo console (and no it's not a DQ game or any other SE created game).
Anyway, since the XIV disaster and the successful Bravely Default experiment they might have learned something...

meesbaker

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #85 on: 2014-04-16 17:40:38 »
@Kaldarasha no Squaresoft game had this crazy overemotional characters full of annoyingness. The thing thats wrong with X-2 is just that same style thats wrong about any other ff game produced after it. Terrible overacting up to singing(and costumes!? Soft hadnt summink alike ever) , annoying stuff, bad story, terrible pop music(that bugs me most, radio music has no place in a ff, thats where the devil started), again BAD BACKROUND MUSIC....

How can that be a coincidence ? Up to X everything is fine and as soon as Enix comes by X-2 is a ridiculous pop-diva game? What they made of Yuna is almost blasphemic, when I compare the intro of FFX to the one of FFX-2 Im getting chills in a bad way...like horror, like it was an evil sarcastic parody of ffx.

And all other ffs after that were totally alike and you tell me that's all random?
You said its Square's handwriting, can you really believe that ff had developed just the same after ffx if Squaresoft had stayed Squaresoft?

No offense Im just curious... :)

@Leonhart GR
Lol finally I know why all ffxv trailers have boring grey urban levels its probably the whole game.



« Last Edit: 2014-04-16 17:44:27 by meesbaker »

AndehPandeh

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #86 on: 2014-04-16 18:40:31 »
terrible pop music(that bugs me most, radio music has no place in a ff, thats where the devil started), again BAD BACKROUND MUSIC....


I actually half and half agree with you here; I personally enjoyed parts of X-2's soundtrack, even the J-Pop songs, and I think it worked considering Spiras setting, it wouldnt have worked in X of course cuz of the overall depressing mood caused by sin and the whole anti-technology stuff but I feel it did work in X-2, (especially when one keeps in mind that the songs were basically from Lennes memories from a time when it made sense pop music would be the in thing) however the overall feel of the music did feel like it was marking the downfall of the series. It had nothing on the older soundtracks.
Nonetheless, I wasnt worried about the game until I beat my first proper battle and found out they'd changed the victory theme. I know it sounds like a silly thing to worry about an entire game over, but I honestly did.

I still think the music was decent enough, the majority of the tracks were just nothing special to me, then there was a couple I liked (not counting the vocal tracks, Eternity: Memory of Lightwaves and Leblancs battle theme: I'll Give you Something Hot) but the rest was rather forgettable.

Unfortunately the games that followed seemed to all have nothing but forgettable pieces... (at least XII did, seriously cannot think of a single track from that)

I think the true mark of FF going to strawberries, at least music wise, was when they had Leona Lewis for the theme song of 13. That was the point where I knew they were putting getting a mainstream audience above the actual storytelling... at least J-Pop isn't exactly popular in western countries, with 13 they had the japanese theme song and rather than having a english version re-recorded or simply releasing it over here in japanese as they did with Suteki Da Ne, they purposely went out of their way to get a artist popular over heres song in it instead, made even worse by the fact I dont think the song fit with the aesthetic of the world at all

of course this is just how I feel x3

DLPB

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #87 on: 2014-04-16 20:23:12 »
13 does have some good music in it though.  I hate that game, but some of that score is really well done.  Not surprising because it's from one of the composers who worked on X. 

Saber's Edge is great, so is Blinded by Light imho.

But compared to VI-X I would not put XII or XIII near it, and certainly not X-2.   
« Last Edit: 2014-04-16 20:41:54 by DLPB »

gjoerulv

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #88 on: 2014-04-20 08:33:20 »
Considering music only, imo, it's only X-2 and the 13s that have been rather meh (even the mmos have some really good music).

Of course, there are exceptions like DLPB and AndehPandeh mentioned. One of the best one from 13 is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5pPn2YNmoM
Not only is the game ending, the music is pretty good as well.

LeonhartGR

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #89 on: 2014-04-20 11:43:31 »
My favorite track from XIII-2 is Eclipse with it's amazing prelude! I kept playing that stage just to listen to it's amazing soundtrack. The OST from the first part of XIII series was awful though. Especially the battle theme. I was feeling a news cast was going to begin.
« Last Edit: 2014-04-20 11:45:54 by LeonhartGR »

meesbaker

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #90 on: 2014-04-20 13:22:18 »
The themes are ok but nothing compared to the work of uematsu. After x he disappeared as he wanted to “spend more time on his band“ but I bet he saw the strawberries games coming and didnt put his music on such crap.

All we can do is replay ff1-ff10 forever and hope for a better future.

gjoerulv

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #91 on: 2014-04-20 14:33:14 »
The themes are ok but nothing compared to the work of uematsu. After x he disappeared as he wanted to “spend more time on his band“ but I bet he saw the sh*t games coming and didnt put his music on such crap.

All we can do is replay ff1-ff10 forever and hope for a better future.

Actually he made music for 11 and 14 too. And on 10 he had much help. He made about half of the music on it I think.
Imo FF9 was the latest FF with the good old real FF quality music. Uematsu made a comeback with Lost Odyssey, with the same kind of quality.

LeonhartGR

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meesbaker

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Re: What the hell is wrong with SquareEnix?
« Reply #93 on: 2014-04-24 23:04:14 »
Nah my friend I wouldnt wanna see that...
You realize what kind of games they are making now dont you? I love ff8 as well LeonhartGR, Squall is one of my favorite rpg characters ever but do you really believe SE can make him work on a modern system?

He'd be an annoying loser like Snow or so...
Much of that character was carried by imagination...the crappy graphics same as the fact that there were no voices but his thoughts as text had some very special effect I think. Some certain old school charme that is lost if SE make a screaming, jumping, flying moron out of him.

Ff8 had a lovely style and narration like all older ffs. Its just nice to play thru it but Im sure if you're looking for audio/video enhancements the best you can do is modding the steam version.

After watching AC I had a very hard time getting this flying idiot guy who referred to himself as Cloud out of my head and I definately do not wanna get more childhood memories raped. :)

Sorry to keep whining the same stuff about SE on every topic over and over, gotta be annoying but look at the truth: They couldnt even carry ffx from ps2 to ps3.
Yes hd and everything...Imo the faces in the remake look less fitting to the chars and the music sounds a lot less catchy and powerful. It has no brilliance or definition, just some washy keyboard crap.

Pcsx2 with gsdx plugin, Full hd, 6x scaling, interlacing, 1024x1024 textures and anti aliasing does a much better job at upscaling ffx.
And that remake left the game intact, all they needed to do was remastering. What do you think a ff8 on ps4 would be? It's ff13 with Squall and a Zell with a chocobo in his hair.