Author Topic: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft  (Read 4552 times)

bluelion

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[HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« on: 2014-02-27 16:13:13 »
Hey folks,

as some of you will already know, I am helping now to reconstruct some of the field scenes. I have nearly finished my work for modelling on one scene of Reactor 5 raid shaft (4SBWY_1). Mayo Master sent me the blender file with the correct alignment and the right focal length of the camera, because I have not the PSX version of FF7, which is necessary to get the camera information. Thanks for that! The name of the file is "4SBWY_1", but in the File reconstruction sheet it's called "sbwy4_1". It should be the same file, I do not see there any difference, if I compare it with the file of my steam version. Maybe it has just a different name in the PSX version.

So, here is my current work progress:
   

What I have to do, before I can start with texturing, is to finish modelling the two sockets and adding a cable, which should extend the top right corner. Furthermore I have to play around with subdevision surface and smoothing.

I have one question: The PNG file Mayo Master has sent me has a resolution of 320x224 and the resolution of the camera in the blender file has a resolution of 1600x1120. On what resolution should I render? I've read in other threads to increase the resolution by 4 times. In addition, I noticed that the extracted PNG file of every scene has a individual resolution.

So much for that, you're welcome to provide some feedback.

anaho

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #1 on: 2014-02-27 19:19:28 »
1.) Any multitude of original rs will suffice. The more the merrier. You can always scale down later.
2.) This scene has been remodeled at least once.

cmh175

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #2 on: 2014-02-27 22:49:17 »
That's looking good so far, looks very much like the original. I'm not sure on resolution but I remember reading the final renders were pretty big, so probably 1600x1120, maybe even bigger.

1.) Any multitude of original rs will suffice. The more the merrier. You can always scale down later.
2.) This scene has been remodeled at least once.

Is that right? Mayo Master listed it as a good scene for beginners, I assumed also still being incomplete. Possibly a similar scene, or maybe started but never completed?

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #3 on: 2014-02-28 00:12:20 »
The name of the file is "4SBWY_1", but in the File reconstruction sheet it's called "sbwy4_1". It should be the same file, I do not see there any difference, if I compare it with the file of my steam version. Maybe it has just a different name in the PSX version.
Yes, in the file reconstruction sheet, the scene is called sbwy4_1, but on the European PSX disc, the corresponding file is actually named 4sbwy_1. I don't know why there is a discrepancy. About your work: that's looking pretty good so far, keep it up.

What I have to do, before I can start with texturing, is to finish modelling the two sockets and adding a cable, which should extend the top right corner. Furthermore I have to play around with subdevision surface and smoothing.
Now, there is something else I would strongly recommend (I would think it would be good practice to generalize that to most scenes): model the invisible. What do I mean by that? Basically, I mean to also model the parts of the corridor which do not appear on camera. Why do that, I hear you ask (you didn't, but I'm going to tell anyway)? Several aspects:
- Some objects may not appear on camera but considerably affect how you other visible objects look like. For instance, if you model a corridor wall and disable camera visibility, you can still see the reflection of that object on a visible object whose surface has reflective properties.
- If your rendering engine (like Cycles) relies on indirect lighting, then it will significantly affect light bounces and how visible objects are illuminated
- If you bake ambient occlusion for building up dirtmaps, the presence of an invisible object will have an impact on the texture.
I don't know if more experienced modellers would agree, but that's my take on it.

I have one question: The PNG file Mayo Master has sent me has a resolution of 320x224 and the resolution of the camera in the blender file has a resolution of 1600x1120. On what resolution should I render? I've read in other threads to increase the resolution by 4 times. In addition, I noticed that the extracted PNG file of every scene has a individual resolution.
1.) Any multitude of original rs will suffice. The more the merrier. You can always scale down later.
I agree. If you want to actually convert original sizes into actual HD, you need to scale it by 4.5 times. My personal recommendation is to round it up to 5, for now. While it is not needed now, I tend to believe that it'd be best to eventually be able to render for 4K res (hence 9 times the original). I don't say that we should make x9 renders right now, I rather mean that our scenes should have already enough detail in them so that, when the need for 4K resolutions arise (in years, but this project is going to take a very long time), all we'd have to do is re-render the scenes at greater scale.

2.) This scene has been remodeled at least once.
Is that right? Mayo Master listed it as a good scene for beginners, I assumed also still being incomplete. Possibly a similar scene, or maybe started but never completed?
cmh175 is actually right: somebody got started on the scene, but never finished it (it was modelled and partly textured). I didn't get any update or heads-up whatsoever in a very long time, and given that's a very good scene for newbies to practice, I preferred to leave it open to bluelion. I think he already caught up with most of what was already done in about a week, and he seems much more motivated about seeing it to completion than the previous person. For that matter 4sbwy_2 has a very similar status (I don't think it was even textured).

bluelion

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #4 on: 2014-03-05 01:58:55 »
Just a small progress update. I modelled the invisible objects in my scene like walls and pillars and I started with texturing the walls according to the suggestion in the thread "Sharing resources". I also found this helpful video at YouTube: Realistic Materials with Cycles. The light sources inside the shaft are temporary. The scene is a little bit too dark, but in the original picture it looks like that there are just two light sources.



Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #5 on: 2014-03-05 04:03:57 »
Thanks for the progress update. It's looking pretty good so far, keep it up  :)
Some questions/comments in random order:
- Are you currently with Blender internal or Cycles? If you followed blenderguru's tutorial, then you must be on Cycles, which is actually better. If you're able to learn texturing with Cycles directly, that's awesome. BTW, Blenderguru is an awesome source of tutorial, I highly recommend these.
- There are a few things you might have forgotten to model, and if you could add them, that'd be great. You see, it seems to me that the walls and floors are made of separated plates which are riveted. I know, you have to squint a bit to be able to make that out, but it's extra detail which makes our work all the more worthwhile. So if you could add the extra junctions and the rows of rivets, that'd be a plus (Array modifier is your friend).
- I have the feeling that you still have the "World" light source on. If that's the case, go to the World tab in the properties panel, and change the surface color to black. The color of the background will change to black when doing so, and the background won't provide any extra light. Besides, I think it will make the comparison with the original scene easier (in terms of overall lighting).
- I think there is a third light source which is actually located in the shaft where the ladder goes down.
- You can add even more detail to your textures by also having layers of grime in addition to the rust. It works in a similar fashion as when you applied a rust texture and a rust map. You could do without a grime texture and only a grime map using "Multiply" when blending layers together (or when using a Color Mix node in Cycles). Generally, I like to base a grime layer on a texture you obtain by baking Ambient Occlusion (I can give you some details about how to do it, it took me a bit of time to figure it out when I started).
 
I look forward to seeing how the scene is going to evolve and sharpen up  :)  If you have some noob question, don't hesitate to ask.

bluelion

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #6 on: 2014-03-06 00:50:07 »
Yep, I am using Cycles and I started with Cycles more or less directly. In preparation I have watched many YouTube videos and tutorials. So afterwards I got on well with texturing. Ok, I actually do not know all the tricks, but I think I have the basics down pat. Regarding the rivets, yeah you're right, I have overlooked this detail. The world light source ist now disabled and I have extended the invisible walls to the left and added there the fourth light source. This was necessary for the reason that the left side of the shaft was to dark. So now you do not see the light source directly and its reflections. With respect to the last point, it would be nice if you can give me some details how to do the grime and how to bake Ambient Occlusion. BTW: I have used bump mapping at the rust, but I think such effects are not so clearly if you are not willing to zoom in.

Next progress update coming soon...

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #7 on: 2014-03-06 04:57:07 »
It's good you get on Cycle directly. I hope UV-unwrapping is not too much of a problem (most of the items in your scene are rather flat or boxes, so it shouldn't be too difficult). For UV-unwrapping, it's generally best practice to mark the seams yourself and then do the unwrap (as opposed to using one of the automates unwrapping method), then it's more convenient when you have to make textures ( the writings on the wall, probably the yellow & black stripes are textures you'll most likely have to do yourself). We can see about that later.
Now, for adding grime, I usually recommend to make grime textures with a combination of a/ A procedural or a grime image texture  b/baked Ambient Occlusion.
- To get a procedural texture for grime (using nodes in Cycles materials): Add a Noise texture, connected to a Color HSV node, connected to a Color Brightness/Contrast node. In the HSV node, set the Saturation value to 0. You now have a base for building a grime map: In the noise texture node, you can set the scale of the fractal pattern, as well as the Detail option (I recommend Details values above 10). Then with the Brightness/Contrast node you can enhance the difference between clean and dirty areas, or make the overall material somewhat clean or somewhat dirty. Just play around with the settings. For more control over your material, you can also split the exit of the HSV node to 2 different brightness/contrast nodes: one would affect diffuse color and one would affect the Fac. value in the mix shader between your diffuse and your glossy shaders.
- For image textures, just scrounge around cgtextures.com. Good sources of grime textures can be found in the Concrete, Grunge, Metal, and Plaster sections. I advise you retouch these images before importing them in blender as grime maps (namely: make the images square, maybe retouch the colors or set a greyscale). If you choose an image texture instead of the procedural, the way you get a brightness/contrast node after that works pretty much in the same way as above.
- Now, for Ambient Occlusion: the idea is to get a greyscale map of "free space" surrounding your object. When baking Ambient Occlusion, if there's nothing in the vicinity of an object's surface, it will be bright, and if there are objects in the vicinity, it will get darker in relation to the size and distance to the surface. This can be used as a way to make dirtmaps, because it correlates how objects tend to get dirty (open surfaces are clean, narrow crevices get dirty). Now, to do it:
I recommend you split your working environment in several subwindows, with at least your 3d view window and a UV-image editor window (usually I have a third window opened for material nodes). Select the object you want to work on on edit mode, and see how the UV unwrap is made in the UV image editor. Now, save, and go to Blender Render as a render mode (leave Cycles for a few minutes). In the UV image editor where your UV unwrap is shown, create a new image (the resolution depends on how detailed you want your results to be - 1024 x 1024 is usually fine, but don't hesitate to make it bigger for very large textures). The image should be black. In the World tab of the properties panel, click on Ambient Occlusion and in the "Gather" subsection, you can tune the attenuation distance (which is in relation with the objects surrounding the one you're working on). Then, make sure you have all the object which could have an influence on the grime texture be present in a visible layer. Once that's done, go to the Render tab of the properties panel, all the way down, check out the Bake section, select "Ambient Occlusion", then click the "Bake" button. You should have your Ambient Occlusion map being gradually baked in your UV image editor section. If the results seem very odd (an open surface that has a black ambient occlusion, for instance), watch out for the direction of your face normals (you may have to recalculate them or Flip direction). When your Ambient Occlusion map is baked, Use Save As image in your UV image editor. Voila! You can return to Cycles render afterwards, and use your ambient occlusion map as an "Image texture" in your material nodes.
Once you have a grime texture and ambient occlusion, a good trick is to mix them with Color Mix node, but you change "Mix" for Multiply, and set the Fac value to 1 (or near 1). Then you use the resulting mixture as something to mix in your diffuse color, and in the Fac value of the mix shader between your Diffuse and Glossy.
I hope that helps, and I hope my instructions were clear enough to follow  :)

Then, I think it is rather wise not to exaggerate the bumps to much for the rust. Something else to keep in mind: you'll have to be very careful about the scale of the objects (or even bumps) in a scene, because the original images can be misleading. Because the original game was set in such a low resolution, many objects were actually scaled up considerably to make them recognizable on screen. But now that we are in HD, it doesn't make sense to keep some of these objects at original scale. 2 recent examples: in the "man in pipe" scene, if I had kept the soda cans and beer cans as large as in the original scene, the cans would be about 40 cm tall and 15 cm in diameter. In my item shop scene, the original scale of a tea cup was actually 38 cm tall and the same in diameter. These features need a rescaling job. You may not encounter many things like that in your scene, but watch out for these. For instance, The dimensions of the ladder (width, size of ladder bars, etc) may need a revision. The question is: "how do I figure what should be the proper scale of objects?". There are 2 basic methods:
- Generally, large objects (bed, door frame) were made with a logical scale in proportion to the characters. Door frames and beds give you a pretty good reference point for defining the scale of a scene (generic doorframe around 2.10 m, generic mattress around 2 m long). If a tea pot is as high as a quarter of a doorframe, you know something is wrong.
- See how the size of character models compare with the size of your objects. To that end, I strongly recommend you mod your game using Kaldarasha's character models (See Graphical Mods in this forum), which have more realistic proportions. You can estimate the scale of your environment given that Cloud is 1.73m tall.
 
That's all I have in mind for now, and I hope it's not too much to digest  :P

bluelion

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #8 on: 2014-03-13 02:11:55 »
Thanks's, your comment helped me very much. It took some days to finish reading your posting :P The matter regarding baking Ambient Occlusion is quite easy, but when I use all objects of my scene while baking AO I have the "shadows" of the pipes at the wall. I think it is better to unselect the pipes, so I would have just the "shadows" at the edges which I use to present dirt or grime. What do you think? In the Node Editor I used the Noise Texture and the AO map together with the nodes you recommended.
Here you see the pure grime texture:


And here you can see how I have connected the nodes in the Node Editor. At the end I mixed the shaders of the grime with my metal / rust texture which I did before and took the grime as the factor.


Last but not least you can see the grime combined with the metal / rust texture.


Is it that way how you understand "grime"?

LeonhartGR

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #9 on: 2014-03-13 02:16:39 »
Oh gosh... this is awesome! We need Q-Gears cam angles right away :P :P

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #10 on: 2014-03-13 03:06:14 »
Looks pretty grimey to me, great work so far :)

Mayo Master

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Re: [HD Remake] Reactor 5 raid shaft
« Reply #11 on: 2014-03-13 13:28:49 »
You're definitely on the right track. 2 quick notes:
- It is fine if you have the "shadows" of the pipes baked in the wall, because enclosed spaces will get more grimy than open spaces.
- When you return to Cycles, in the World tab of the properties panel, be sure to unselect "Ambient Occlusion", else you will have ambient occlusion-based lighting added into our scene in your next render (which I think happened when you submitted your textured picture, which is why it looks oddly shiny).
Anyway, keep up the good work.