Author Topic: Midgar City Information  (Read 13747 times)

Tom

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Midgar City Information
« on: 2015-02-12 07:19:45 »
I have been looking around for information about the characteristics of Midgar but haven't found much.  From ingame text, we know that the plate is 50meters from the ground but what is the radius of the plate? 100m? 1km?  Also what is the "Thickness" of the pizza? I was guessing 7.5m based on the North Mako Reactor bridge but can't be sure.  And also are there any good reference images available? 
I am trying to properly scale my North Mako Reactor Bridge to fit nicely into a real scale Midgar then "Spin" it for the other 7 sectors

Any information would be helpful   :D

Mayo Master

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #1 on: 2015-02-12 13:06:19 »
It's hard to tell. To begin with, dimensions and aspect ratios a very different depending on whether you consider "original FF7 Midgar" vs "more recent CG renditions of Midgar" (as in Advent Children and Crisis Core). The size of Midgar in the original FF7 game is still that of a "RPG town", meaning that it might have looked big in its time but in actuality it is fairly small in comparison to a/ a real-life city b/large towns in more modern productions (GTA, Assassin's Creed). The size of Midgar is the CG scenes of Crisis Core or Advent Children is much larger and, in my opinion, more fitting the picture of the dystopian metropolis. What we could do is measure the top section of the Shinra building, which is 10 floors (thus roughly 30 m) and use that as a scale to evaluate the radius of the plate.   
Otherwise, SpooX, sapphite and Killerx20 have been working on modelling the entire thing, so they might have a more accurate idea.

Tom

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #2 on: 2015-02-12 16:03:15 »
50 meter pillars!


Also here is my current plate design:


Not sure why but it looks a bit wrong to me.  Have any ideas what the issue is?  Bad scaling?

Im trying to build it in a way that if you place all the outdoors scenes on it, they would fit without problems and look good
« Last Edit: 2015-02-12 16:05:49 by Tom »

Mayo Master

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #3 on: 2015-02-12 17:15:01 »
As I said, other people have been working on this, as you can see here and here.
As far as I recall, SpooX had the ambition to recreate enough of Midgar to be able to remake the opening video, which corresponds to what you have been trying to do. You could PM SpooX if you wish to have more detailed information.
At first glance: one feature which is missing from your model is that Midgar has metallic structures which keep radiating out, past the ring of mako reactors. The Midgar models shown in the links above do have these. In addition, I think the radius of the structure you've designed is too small, compared with the height of the pillars.

All that being said: if you were to recreate Final Fantasy VII environments, I would very much prefer if you spend your efforts on environments which have not been touched by anyone else so far. Given that we're way too few people in order to deliver a significant amount of scenes, we can't afford being redundant in the scenes we're creating. If you wish to create something new, there's a ton of things to be done, and I'd be very happy to guide you and help you out.

Tom

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #4 on: 2015-02-12 19:11:30 »
Ive been making the city so I can place the Shinra Building Outside Elevator (eleout) and render the background since without the city its black:


Normally this field overlooks the Sector 4 Reactor and the plates neighboring it.

Mayo Master

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #5 on: 2015-02-12 19:19:26 »
Among the possibilities is a method I've been using for my slums scenes:
You could ask SpooX, Sapphire or Killerx20 if they could make a panoramic, equirectangular render of their Midgar models.
Then, in Blender, you can use the equirectangular image as background (Using the "Environment texture" node), which could provide not only some background image, but also serve as enviro-light - it can be a very useful and realistic way to provide a light source to a scene.

SpooX

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #6 on: 2015-02-12 21:48:03 »
50 meters high is about right and is about the only solid(?) information you will find, the rest is all pure speculation.
And for reference pictures, that depends on what you are actually looking for.

First of all keep in mind that it's all pure (final) fantasy. Scaling is a real issue throughout the whole world here, scenes don't match up and to be honest the story about Midgar is bigger then Midgar itself.

For references you could base your Midgar upon:
  • The original FFVII
  • The Midgar from Crisis Core
  • The physical Midgar model from SE-hq

Those are three completely different versions.
Personally I've based my version upon FFVII the game.
an early version of this:


To have a bit of a feeling about scale on the plates this is a (again early) view of the most important parts:


and zooming into sector 8 for a sec:


Coming back to thhe scene you're working on with the elevator, I would do it seperately, unless your able to animate the reflections of the elevator itself as well. Looking at how the scene (in FFVII) is build up the layers are clearly seperating the elevator from the background. You would be better of to create the backdrop in 2d rather then building the whole of Midgar for this scene alone.

As for what's wrong with the model, I think the borders are to thick compared to the size of the plate. Also the central train pillar feels of, to thin.

The following is (supposed to be) more or less 50 meters high;


And if you look into the technical bits and bobs of locomotives, it is a real miracle that it will ever get on top.  :o

But look close at what is available, the background of the dropping above midgar is a source for getting a feel for the width of the pizza, if you set the pilar(s) to 50meter height, you can scale the rest into proportion.

I wonder what your goal is here, is it just to be able to create the scenes in the Q-gears engine? or do you plan on actually rendering the backgrounds for the qhimmed-FFVII? (just wondering).

 8-)

paul

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #7 on: 2015-02-12 22:58:04 »
http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Killerx20/media/Midgar%20Renders/NightTest6.jpg.html

This guys last rendering is looking like hes getting near done, must be at least 70% complete? SpooX is this the same model you're working on with this guy? Looks awesome btw.

Mayo Master

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #8 on: 2015-02-12 23:27:32 »
Coming back to thhe scene you're working on with the elevator, I would do it seperately, unless your able to animate the reflections of the elevator itself as well. Looking at how the scene (in FFVII) is build up the layers are clearly seperating the elevator from the background. You would be better of to create the backdrop in 2d rather then building the whole of Midgar for this scene alone.
I completely agree with this. Besides, even if you could animate the reflections of the elevator itself (as having the elevator actually moving in 3d space using QGears), I think it would make no difference between a 2d backdrop providing the enviro light, and actual 3d objects providing light sources (namely because of how far from the elevator these light sources are).

Omzy

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #9 on: 2015-02-13 02:12:51 »
http://s36.photobucket.com/user/Killerx20/media/Midgar%20Renders/NightTest6.jpg.html

This guys last rendering is looking like hes getting near done, must be at least 70% complete? SpooX is this the same model you're working on with this guy? Looks awesome btw.
Holy...that guy has so many near-render-worthy scenes that could be added to the Team Avalanche project. Anyone contacted him?

Mayo Master

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #10 on: 2015-02-13 05:00:00 »
Holy...that guy has so many near-render-worthy scenes that could be added to the Team Avalanche project. Anyone contacted him?
Well, yeah. For that matter he did post his scenes here, such as this time. And for some reason, he simply left without reply. I'm pretty much resigned about it now.

KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #11 on: 2015-02-13 05:09:42 »
Looking at his site linked in his profile, it appears he is still actively working on it.

http://killerx20.deviantart.com

Quote
« Last Edit: 2015-02-13 05:20:07 by KnifeTheSky77 »

Jayuk

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #12 on: 2015-02-13 16:58:35 »
Maybe he could be contacted here? (last online Feb 11th)

Tom

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #13 on: 2015-02-13 18:35:38 »
I was making the model since its used in plenty of other scenes as well as Shinra Building infront, President Shinra Office, North Mako Reactor, South Mako Reactor, Sector 7 Pillar Bombing, Climbing the "Golden wire of hope" and is used as a background in the Hundred Gunner / Heli Gunner battle

SpooX

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #14 on: 2015-02-13 19:48:06 »
I would think KillerX has been busy, google around for Midgar and minecraft....but he is still alive.
I was a bit annoyed at him for hijacking the first 5 google pages when looking for additional Midgar references.... :o

 8-)

Tom

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #15 on: 2015-02-13 21:07:14 »
The battle scene is very different but here is the reconstruction I did a while ago of it:

Also had some more fun with the models  :D
Character Models

Heli Gunner's Firing Line attack animation:


I probably going to add the reactors to Midgar next... going to have fun with the Spin tool  :wink:
« Last Edit: 2015-02-13 22:36:26 by Tom »

SpooX

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #16 on: 2015-02-13 23:11:58 »
Please tell me that these are real-time Qgears renders...

Tom

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #17 on: 2015-02-13 23:27:22 »
No they aren't  :(  But will be once I figure out how to export from Blender to OGRE 3D (Its the 3D Engine we use).  If anyone knows any good exporter tools from blender to OGRE 3D (Not .scene!) that actually work in Blender 2.73, I'm all ears. OGRE 3D format is a .mesh, .material and a .png with the textures.

Anyways I added the basic textures, now gotta remake that background in 3D!  :D


KnifeTheSky77

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #18 on: 2015-02-14 03:27:19 »
Dig through the ogre wiki for obj->ogre exporter, the real limitation to the one I've used was only very basic lighting export, everything else is ignored

paul

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #19 on: 2015-02-14 11:25:44 »
Please tell me that these are real-time Qgears renders...

That could easily be done in real time in Ogre.

Kaldarasha

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #20 on: 2015-02-14 13:24:05 »
Is this something useful?
http://www.ogre3d.org/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Tools:+Blender
https://code.google.com/p/blender2ogre/

I'm keen on this as you others at this. With wight painted meshes a whole new world would open up for me. And much to learn too...

Fischkopf

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #21 on: 2015-02-18 12:29:55 »
Looking at his site linked in his profile, it appears he is still actively working on it.

http://killerx20.deviantart.com

This is f*ing amazing. Probably the most detailed and complete Midgar recreation I've ever seen. I hope he can provide his stuff for you guys, it would be a real shame if not.
« Last Edit: 2015-02-18 12:32:39 by Fischkopf »

Tom

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #22 on: 2015-02-19 19:50:23 »
Added reactors.  Also, I have noticed that in the sector 7 pillar collapse the different angles are different models, the main part of te pillar and plate release system is the identical, little bits and pieces differ across scenes.

Killerx20

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #23 on: 2015-03-18 22:52:35 »
Yeah I've been rather busy with work lately. I'd definitely love to be able to model like I used to. I put in improvements here and there though.
The modeling I do is... strange to say the least. I'm not sure how useful my models would be to be honest.

Mayo Master

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Re: Midgar City Information
« Reply #24 on: 2015-03-19 02:32:49 »
Yeah I've been rather busy with work lately. I'd definitely love to be able to model like I used to. I put in improvements here and there though.
The modeling I do is... strange to say the least. I'm not sure how useful my models would be to be honest.
Welcome back!
Actually I believe your Midgar model could be of extremely useful to us. Although before going into details, I'm quite curious about the "strangeness" of your modelling approach. Can you elaborate? As far as I'm concerned, if you can achieve great results, I don't really care whether you use Blender, Maya, 3ds or something else.
Now, I'm convinced we could use your work in several circumstances. First, your renders may be primarily useful to compose certain scenes, such as eleout, fallp, midgal. Although Midgar doesn't show in the images of eleout and midgal scenes which I've linked, actually they feature Midgar cityscape prominently (if you recall how these scenes actually look like in game). Secondly, we could use some of your renders as environment lighting for many scenes taking place on Midgar's plate. Thirdly, I was under the impression that you recreated a bunch of the environments from the Shinra building. Is that correct? In which case, I don't think it would be much of a stretch to do the necessary work to have them in the game. What do you think?
« Last Edit: 2015-03-19 02:44:03 by Mayo Master »